Mamta Kafle Bhatt Trial: Naresh Bhatt Faces Cross-Examination (His Account Under Fire) — Nov 5

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: So, let me ask you a couple of questions. Did you defile the dead body of your wife, Montecasa? [00:00:12] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:00:13] Speaker 1: Did you conceal the dead body of your wife, Montecasa? [00:00:20] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:00:22] Speaker ?: Killed your wife, Montecasa? [00:00:25] Speaker 3: No, not even imagination. [00:00:28] Speaker 1: All the questions I have. Cross. [00:00:51] Speaker 4: Ready? [00:00:52] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:00:53] Speaker 4: You're a liar. [00:00:54] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:00:56] Speaker 4: You lied. [00:00:58] Speaker 5: Order, not doing that. [00:01:04] Speaker 4: I want to identify everybody that you lied to, and if I forget somebody, tell us. You lied to Geeta Koffle, right? [00:01:15] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:01:16] Speaker 4: You lied to Montecasa's brother, Mahesh. [00:01:20] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:01:21] Speaker 4: That's for starters, who you lied to. [00:01:29] Speaker 3: Would you mind to repeat that one more time? [00:01:30] Speaker 4: I'll ask a different question. You're an admitted liar to this entire jury. Everybody in this room knows now that you are a liar. [00:01:41] Speaker 3: That is the only one thing I lied to. That is the only one thing I lied. [00:01:43] Speaker 4: That's the one? What's the one thing you lied about? [00:01:51] Speaker 3: About that case at that time. [00:01:53] Speaker 4: About the Montecasa case. That's the case you lied about? Right? Right? Didn't you say to the police that you never lied? Those are your words? You never lied. [00:02:13] Speaker 3: Yes. Can you? [00:02:16] Speaker 6: You lied to Sarita Nupani? [00:02:26] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:02:27] Speaker 4: You lied to Officer Pellet? [00:02:31] Speaker 3: I don't remember that. [00:02:32] Speaker 4: When you finally decided to make your fake call for the fine MAPTA on August, on that Sunday, Monday, August 5th? Yes. You finally decided to report her body missing? [00:02:46] Speaker 6: Right, sir. You lied to him, too? [00:02:52] Speaker 4: The officer that responded, you lied to him, too? [00:02:57] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:02:57] Speaker 4: The two officers that came for the health and safety check, you lied to them. [00:03:08] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:03:08] Speaker 4: You lied to Detective Claudia Ventura. [00:03:16] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:03:17] Speaker 4: You lied to MAPTA's friend, who lives in New York, Sunita Bandari. [00:03:26] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:03:27] Speaker 4: You lied to Sachi Manali, that professional journalist who recorded your interview for the whole Nepali community. [00:03:36] Speaker 6: Yes. So, the whole world now knows you're a liar in the United States, Nepal, and in this courtroom. [00:04:01] Speaker 3: Let's think about that. [00:04:02] Speaker 4: Let's think about it. Did you talk to Sachi Manali? [00:04:07] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:04:07] Speaker 4: And she broadcasted your interview to the entire country of Nepal? [00:04:17] Speaker 3: I don't know. [00:04:18] Speaker 4: When you talked to Sachi Manali, who did you think you were talking to? [00:04:21] Speaker 7: At that time? [00:04:27] Speaker 4: At any time. [00:04:29] Speaker 3: I talked only one time. [00:04:31] Speaker 4: And she was broadcasting your lies live, correct? This was a live interview. [00:04:47] Speaker 6: I'll move on. [00:04:49] Speaker 7: I'll move on. You lied to Sachi, correct? [00:04:53] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:05:00] Speaker 4: You also lied to Nadia Navarro. [00:05:07] Speaker 3: I don't remember to speak to her at all. [00:05:13] Speaker 4: Didn't you try to talk to Nadia at your baby's first birthday? You wanted to tell her something? [00:05:27] Speaker 3: I don't remember that. [00:05:30] Speaker 4: Do you remember her saying that you tried to talk to her, but she did not feel comfortable with you? She didn't want to talk to you? Do you remember that? [00:05:45] Speaker 3: I remember Manali at this courtroom. That's what she said. Yes. [00:05:50] Speaker 7: Right. Do you think she was lying when she testified in this courtroom? [00:05:58] Speaker 3: I don't know about her, but like, I don't remember that day I want to talk to her or not. I don't remember that. [00:06:06] Speaker 4: Your old Wickersham tenant, Pitambar Mukhiya. [00:06:11] Speaker 7: You lied to him too, correct? [00:06:23] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:06:23] Speaker 7: You lied to Amanda, your babysitter, correct? No. [00:06:31] Speaker 4: You just didn't tell her the truth about what you did to your wife, correct? [00:06:50] Speaker 6: You held back that fact, right? [00:06:57] Speaker 3: I do not remember talking to Amanda about anything other than taking care of baby. I don't remember. I don't think I just spoke on a message, that's all. [00:07:06] Speaker 4: But you also came and picked up Nima from her apartment. Yes. Do you remember walking inside of her apartment and looking out the window? [00:07:21] Speaker 3: I went to inside with taking my shoes off, but like not outside the window. I was looking at the Nima's place. [00:07:32] Speaker 4: So when Amanda said that she sees you acting weird inside of her apartment looking out the window, you're saying that didn't happen. [00:07:40] Speaker 3: That might be happened, but I'm not saying that did not happen, but like I did not do that, like looking at the window or something. But I went there, maybe she saw I'm behaving weird, but like I don't remember that. [00:07:51] Speaker 4: You do or you don't remember acting weird when you went into her apartment? [00:07:55] Speaker 3: I don't remember if she saw me that, but like I don't believe I did that. But I don't remember. If I did that, I don't remember. [00:08:02] Speaker 4: And you certainly heard her say that, right? [00:08:04] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:08:05] Speaker 4: And she has no motive to lie, correct? [00:08:07] Speaker 3: I don't know that. [00:08:08] Speaker 4: She has no interest in the outcome of this trial, correct? I don't know. You have an interest in the outcome of this trial, correct? [00:08:27] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:08:27] Speaker 4: You have a lot on the line. Would you agree with me on that? You, sir, have a lot on the line right now. [00:08:40] Speaker 7: You could go to prison if the jury finds you guilty, correct? Correct. So you have to convince 12 people that you didn't do this, right? [00:09:00] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:09:01] Speaker 4: Your friend, Ashish, Ashish Sangrola, you lied to him as well, correct? [00:09:16] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:09:18] Speaker 4: Krishna Joshi, you lied to him as well? [00:09:23] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:09:24] Speaker 4: Deepo Oli, you lied to her? [00:09:26] Speaker 3: I don't remember to talk to her at all. [00:09:30] Speaker 4: How about your neighbors that live around your house, around Heather Court? You lied to every single one of them, correct? [00:09:36] Speaker 3: I don't remember talking to them. [00:09:39] Speaker 4: You heard them say that they tried talking to you, right? [00:09:43] Speaker 3: But I don't remember. [00:09:45] Speaker 4: You don't remember? [00:09:46] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:09:47] Speaker 4: Do you think they were lying, though? [00:09:49] Speaker 3: I don't think that way. [00:09:51] Speaker 4: You think they were telling the truth? [00:09:52] Speaker 3: I never say that. [00:09:53] Speaker 4: Here's a question for you. Do you think anybody from the Commonwealth's witnesses has lied against you? [00:09:59] Speaker 6: Do you think any of our witnesses have lied against you in court? [00:10:18] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:10:19] Speaker 4: Who? [00:10:25] Speaker 3: There are four or five. [00:10:26] Speaker 4: Tell me one. [00:10:29] Speaker 3: The police officer. [00:10:31] Speaker 4: Which one? [00:10:31] Speaker 3: I don't recall the name. [00:10:33] Speaker 4: What do you look like? [00:10:35] Speaker 3: He came here for who went to my home on the day of 14th February of 2024. [00:10:46] Speaker 4: For that domestic disturbance? [00:10:49] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:10:50] Speaker 4: Do you think that officer lied in court? [00:10:53] Speaker 3: It's not a lie, but it's not true. [00:10:56] Speaker 4: Well, which is it, sir? [00:11:00] Speaker 3: He said, like, I went to down, I talked to him. I never talked to any of the police. [00:11:07] Speaker 4: So other than this little piece, that you didn't talk to this cop, everybody else has told the truth? [00:11:14] Speaker 3: A few more. [00:11:15] Speaker 4: Let's have another. Who else lied in this court on your name? [00:11:20] Speaker 3: Sarita Nupani. [00:11:22] Speaker 4: Sarita Nupani. [00:11:23] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:11:24] Speaker 4: Mapta's friend. The woman who got Mapta a phone. The woman who was getting her out of your house. The woman that gave Mapta safe space to live while you two worked out your marital stripes. That's who lied? That's who lied? Yes. [00:11:45] Speaker 8: Yes. [00:11:51] Speaker 4: What's her motive to lie? [00:11:52] Speaker 3: I don't know. [00:11:54] Speaker 4: But what part of her testimony was a lie? [00:12:01] Speaker 3: There are a few. [00:12:02] Speaker ?: There are a few. [00:12:02] Speaker 4: I'll take one. [00:12:04] Speaker 3: For example, she said, like, she, Mamta was there for many days, and then I go and drop the Nima. I gave it to her, but we were going to New Jersey at that time, Nima, Mamta, my parents were on the car. But she said, like, I just go over there, drop, stuff like that. [00:12:32] Speaker 4: Anything else? [00:12:37] Speaker 3: I don't recall everything right now. Yes. When, like, she was here, I recall some of those, yes. [00:12:44] Speaker 4: But it just escapes your memory now what she lied about you in court. [00:12:49] Speaker 8: Some of them, yes. [00:13:02] Speaker 4: You also lied to Mandira. [00:13:17] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:13:18] Speaker 4: And that's your friend. [00:13:22] Speaker 3: Sister type of friend. [00:13:23] Speaker 4: Yeah. She knew you before you were making big money, right? [00:13:30] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:13:30] Speaker 4: What did you lie to Mandira about? [00:13:39] Speaker 3: About Mamta. [00:13:41] Speaker 4: Give me one of the many lies you told her. Which one did you say to Mandira? [00:13:51] Speaker 3: I don't know where is Mamta. [00:13:58] Speaker 4: You tried to pass baby Nima to Mandira, correct? [00:14:04] Speaker 8: Baby Nima, like, Mandira, like, didn't press go. [00:14:09] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:14:10] Speaker 4: You would rather Nima go to Mandira than go to the Koffle family? [00:14:17] Speaker 8: Not that way. [00:14:26] Speaker 4: Didn't you say to Mandira that if she doesn't take the baby, you're going to put Nima in foster care? [00:14:36] Speaker 8: I do not recall that at all. [00:14:46] Speaker 3: Before they're coming, I told Mandira to take care of the baby. Yes. [00:14:50] Speaker 4: And she told you she couldn't, right? [00:14:52] Speaker 3: I don't recall that. She take the baby. She take care of the baby. [00:14:58] Speaker 4: You heard this was a week ago, at most a week ago. You don't remember her saying this in court? [00:15:03] Speaker 3: Yes, she said that. [00:15:05] Speaker 4: Okay. So she said in court, just to be clear, that you were going to give the baby to her or the baby goes to foster care. [00:15:16] Speaker 3: She said that, I do not recall any way I say that, and then I make all the paperwork to give my daughter to my in-laws' parents. I did all the paperwork. [00:15:29] Speaker 4: You made the paperwork to give Nima to who? [00:15:32] Speaker 3: Gita Koffle and Mahesh Koffle jointly. [00:15:38] Speaker 4: Wasn't there litigation? Sorry, let me step that back. Giving your daughter to foster care is not how you would treat this goddess in your life, is it? [00:16:06] Speaker 8: You said Nima was like a god in your life, a goddess, right? [00:16:21] Speaker 3: In every Hindu culture, every girl daughter are, yes. [00:16:29] Speaker 4: Every grown daughter is like a god or a goddess? [00:16:33] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:16:34] Speaker 8: What's the other one guru? Wasn't Mamta a goddess also? Mamta a goddess also? [00:16:44] Speaker 3: Lakshmi, yes. [00:16:45] Speaker 4: Lakshmi? No, no, no, no. Not Lakshmi. Mamta was a goddess. Mamta was a goddess. [00:16:54] Speaker 3: Yes. Yes. [00:16:56] Speaker 4: That was their goddess, right? Not only theirs. [00:17:01] Speaker 3: Only theirs. [00:17:02] Speaker 4: The community. Mamta was a goddess to everyone. She was love, right? Yes. [00:17:09] Speaker 8: That's not how you treated her. [00:17:14] Speaker ?: Yes. Like trash. Garbage. [00:17:17] Speaker 8: That's how you treated her, right? [00:17:21] Speaker ?: Yes. [00:17:22] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:17:23] Speaker ?: Like trash. Like trash. Garbage. [00:17:25] Speaker 4: That's how you treated her, right? Yes. Are you ashamed of yourself? A lot. [00:17:29] Speaker ?: That's why you were looking up the words "disgrace" in your Google searches? [00:17:29] Speaker 4: I don't recall that. Google search. [00:17:31] Speaker ?: I don't recall that. I don't recall that. [00:17:31] Speaker 8: That's how you treated her. That's how you treated her, right? Yes. That's how you treated her, right? [00:17:35] Speaker ?: Yes. [00:17:36] Speaker 3: Are you ashamed of yourself? [00:17:37] Speaker ?: A lot. [00:17:38] Speaker 4: A lot. [00:17:39] Speaker 8: That's why you were looking up the words "disgrace" in your Google searches? [00:17:45] Speaker 4: I don't recall that. It's in the record, sir. You could look at it. It might be. [00:17:49] Speaker 8: You said it might be? I don't recall that. Would you like me to show it to you? I don't recall that. It's in the record, sir. You could look at it. It might be. You said it might be? [00:17:57] Speaker 3: I don't recall that. Would you like me to show it to you right now? [00:18:00] Speaker 4: I don't recall that. I don't recall that. It's in the record, sir. [00:18:03] Speaker 3: You could look at it. [00:18:04] Speaker ?: It might be. [00:18:05] Speaker 4: You said it might be? [00:18:06] Speaker 3: I don't recall that. [00:18:07] Speaker 4: Would you like me to show it to you right now? [00:18:10] Speaker 3: I'm not saying that, but I don't remember that. I searched a lot of stuff in Google, but I don't remember. [00:18:15] Speaker 4: You looked up a lot of stuff in Google. Let's talk about that. You somehow remember making 14,000 searches on Google? [00:18:22] Speaker 3: I don't remember. [00:18:24] Speaker 4: You just said it. You just testified. [00:18:29] Speaker 1: Judge, he needs to be able to answer a question. [00:18:32] Speaker 5: I should have slowed it down a little bit. [00:18:34] Speaker 4: Sorry, Judge. It's okay. You said, sir, that you made 14,000 searches on Google. You said that this afternoon. [00:18:43] Speaker 8: Yes. Okay. Some you recall. Some you do not. Is that fair to say? [00:18:48] Speaker 4: Majority of, I do not recall. [00:18:49] Speaker ?: I'm summarizing, but I could pull the exact verbiage you typed. And here's another question. Let's clear this up. [00:18:49] Speaker 4: The Google searches. Google searches. [00:18:51] Speaker ?: Google searches. Yes. [00:18:52] Speaker 4: Yes. Google searches. [00:18:54] Speaker ?: Google searches. Google searches. Google searches. Nobody hacked into your phone, correct? [00:18:54] Speaker 4: These are all searches you did. [00:18:55] Speaker ?: Oh, no. [00:18:55] Speaker 4: Some you do not. [00:18:56] Speaker 8: Some you do not. Is that fair to say? [00:18:58] Speaker 3: Majority of, I do not recall. Majority of, I do not recall. [00:19:00] Speaker ?: Majority of, I do not recall. [00:19:00] Speaker 4: I'm summarizing, but I could pull the exact verbiage you typed. And here's another question. Let's clear this up. The Google searches. The Google searches. [00:19:18] Speaker 8: Google searches. [00:19:19] Speaker 4: Nobody hacked into your phone, correct? These are all searches you did? [00:19:23] Speaker 8: Yes. [00:19:28] Speaker 4: Your White House military account with your top secret clearance. [00:19:33] Speaker 8: White House military account with your top secret clearance. [00:19:38] Speaker 4: Nobody hacked into those, nobody hacked into your account and made those searches either, right? [00:19:45] Speaker 8: You did them. Yes. [00:19:47] Speaker 4: How long? I'm not going to pull the record. I'm going to go off what I heard you say. How long wait to remarry after spouse dies? Right? [00:20:16] Speaker ?: That's the search you did? [00:20:16] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm. [00:20:17] Speaker 8: Was it on your phone? Was it on your top secret clearance, White House military account? No, I saw top secret military security clearance, White House computer. [00:20:21] Speaker ?: I don't recall. It's a work phone or lab tablet or work phone or work computer. I don't recall that. Okay. Okay. They have two devices, work tablet or work. Tell us more. Keep speaking, sir. [00:20:23] Speaker 4: That's all. That's all. [00:20:25] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:20:25] Speaker 4: Okay. Okay. Tell us more. Keep speaking, sir. That's all. [00:20:31] Speaker 8: So, tell me if this refreshes your memory. [00:20:33] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:20:33] Speaker 8: Okay. [00:20:34] Speaker 3: Okay. April 12, 2024. [00:20:36] Speaker ?: April 12, 2024. [00:20:36] Speaker 3: Okay. [00:20:37] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:20:37] Speaker 3: So, tell me if this refreshes your memory. They have two devices, work tablet, phone, or work. [00:20:48] Speaker 4: Tell us more. Keep speaking, sir. [00:20:50] Speaker 3: That's all. [00:20:56] Speaker 4: So tell me if this refreshes your memory. April 12, 2024. What happened, debt of died spouse? It's a search you did, correct? Say it again. [00:21:18] Speaker 5: The interpreter needs you to read. [00:21:19] Speaker 4: Sorry, I'll say it slow. April 12, 2024. This is on your laptop. [00:21:27] Speaker ?: Laptop. [00:21:28] Speaker 4: You type these words. What happened, debt of died spouse? Right? The loan. [00:21:43] Speaker 8: You mean the loan? [00:21:44] Speaker 4: The what? Sorry, interpreter? [00:21:47] Speaker 3: Loan. [00:21:48] Speaker 4: You mean loan? No, I'm just asking you. These are the words you put into your laptop, right? Your laptop. Yes. That was in April. Before that, in March, March 21st, you typed into your cell phone. What happened if spouse disappears in divorce in Virginia? [00:22:16] Speaker 8: Yes. [00:22:17] Speaker ?: Yes. [00:22:17] Speaker 8: Those searches are about MAPTA, correct? [00:22:29] Speaker 3: Not necessarily. [00:22:31] Speaker 4: Explain that. Not necessarily. What does that mean? [00:22:34] Speaker 3: I search a lot of stuff. [00:22:41] Speaker 4: I'm not concerned about the other 14,000 searches. I'm focused on these two. Those two searches, in March and in April, spouse disappearing, debt disappearing, when spouse dies, those are about MAPTA, correct? [00:23:06] Speaker 3: I don't recall. [00:23:07] Speaker ?: I don't recall. [00:23:07] Speaker 3: If I search for MAPTA, that's not right. I understand your answer. [00:23:11] Speaker ?: Say it again. [00:23:11] Speaker 4: Can you repeat the question, please? I want to hear the answer. [00:23:13] Speaker ?: What did you say? You just said something. [00:23:14] Speaker 4: What did you say? Everything not related to the MAPTA. That's what I said. Okay. So what you're saying, these two searches are not related to MAPTA at all. Can you read the two searches that I did? [00:23:24] Speaker 3: Can I approach Judge? Sure. [00:23:26] Speaker 4: Can we reflect what it is, please? I don't know. What is it? Is it an exhibit? Is it something else? [00:23:31] Speaker 8: Is it an exhibit? [00:23:32] Speaker ?: It's not. [00:23:32] Speaker 8: It's not. Okay. [00:23:34] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:23:35] Speaker 3: Okay. Okay. Okay. [00:23:38] Speaker 8: Can you read this right here? Can you read the two searches that I did? [00:23:41] Speaker 3: Can I approach Judge? [00:23:42] Speaker 4: Sure. [00:23:43] Speaker 1: Can we reflect what it is, please? I don't know. What is it? Is it an exhibit? Is it something else? It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. Okay. Okay. Can you read this right here? [00:24:03] Speaker 4: Yes. Can you read it out loud? What happened if a spouse- [00:24:06] Speaker ?: Read it to the microphone. [00:24:07] Speaker 4: Judge, I'm sorry. The jury came here. He's getting a little close to my client in terms of- Read it to the microphone. What happened if a spouse disappears in divorce in Virginia? [00:24:12] Speaker 1: That was on what date? 3/21/2024. Read the one on March 12th. What did you type on that date? I forgot. [00:24:18] Speaker 3: What happened if a spouse disappears in divorce in Virginia? [00:24:24] Speaker 4: That was on what date? [00:24:26] Speaker 3: 3/21/2024. [00:24:28] Speaker 4: Read the one on March 12th. What did you type on that date? [00:24:32] Speaker 3: What happened death of died spouse? [00:24:36] Speaker 4: Again, these are your searches, correct? Yes. We're going to transition and talk about the last day that you saw Mamda alive. [00:25:18] Speaker 8: Mamda alive. [00:25:29] Speaker 4: You told us that was on July 29, 2024, correct? Yes. [00:25:34] Speaker 8: Day of the week was that? It's a Monday. [00:25:46] Speaker 4: It's a Monday. Would you agree with me? It was a Monday? I'm not sure. [00:25:51] Speaker 8: I cannot recall. [00:25:53] Speaker 4: Okay. But you do recall the actual date though? July 29? [00:25:58] Speaker 8: Yes. [00:26:00] Speaker 4: You said you went to bed somewhere around 7, 8 o'clock at night. Right? Yes. [00:26:10] Speaker ?: You said Mamda was in the kitchen. Right? [00:26:12] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:26:13] Speaker ?: What was she doing? [00:26:14] Speaker 4: You mean me or Mamda? Yeah. What was Mamda doing in the kitchen? [00:26:17] Speaker 3: Yes. What was Mamda doing in the kitchen? [00:26:19] Speaker 4: Some kitchen work. [00:26:20] Speaker ?: I don't know exactly what kitchen work. Kitchen work, some. [00:26:23] Speaker 4: Well, I don't know what kitchen work is. Kitchen work, some. [00:26:25] Speaker 8: Well, I don't know what kitchen work is. I don't know what kitchen work is. [00:26:27] Speaker 4: 8 o'clock at night, right? [00:26:28] Speaker 8: Yes. You said Mamda was in the kitchen, right? [00:26:30] Speaker ?: Yes. [00:26:31] Speaker 3: What was Mamda doing in the kitchen? Right? Yes. What was Mamda doing in the kitchen? Yes. What was Mamda doing in the kitchen? [00:26:37] Speaker 4: Well, I don't know what kitchen work is either. So, you tell us. What was she doing in the kitchen? Wiping, cooking, cleaning, something. [00:26:44] Speaker 3: I don't recall maybe cleaning or wiping. I don't recall exactly working in the kitchen. That's what I recall. [00:26:52] Speaker 4: She made you food that night though, right? [00:26:55] Speaker 3: I did not eat those food. [00:27:00] Speaker 4: You didn't eat the food? Why not? [00:27:04] Speaker 3: At that time, usually I do not. [00:27:06] Speaker 4: I don't. What does that mean? [00:27:10] Speaker 3: I do not eat means I do not eat. [00:27:13] Speaker 4: I'm trying to understand you. Yes. Did Mamda cook food for you that night? No. [00:27:23] Speaker 3: I don't know that because I eat something somewhere. I eat myself. Okay. [00:27:29] Speaker 4: So, you ate food somewhere else. [00:27:32] Speaker 3: I don't recall, but usually at that time I make my food. [00:27:36] Speaker 4: I don't want usually, sir. I want, if you recall the date, let's talk about the date. Monday, July 29th. You said you went to bed at 7 or 8 o'clock. Prior to going to bed, did you have a meal with Mamda? [00:27:53] Speaker 3: No. [00:27:54] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:27:57] Speaker 4: You said you saw Mamda cleaning in the kitchen though. [00:28:04] Speaker 3: I'm not saying 100% cleaning, something working in the kitchen. Yes. [00:28:12] Speaker 4: You testified you woke up at about 4 o'clock in the morning? [00:28:19] Speaker 3: Around 4 o'clock, yes. [00:28:21] Speaker 4: So now we're on the next day, Tuesday, July 30th, right? [00:28:32] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:28:33] Speaker 4: Okay. Did you wake up before? Let me ask it again. You testified that you woke up at 4 a.m. I'm clarifying. You told us that you woke up on July 30th at around 4 a.m., right? That's what you said today? [00:29:07] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:29:10] Speaker 4: But didn't you wake up before 4 a.m.? Yes. That's when you were looking up the anatomy of the human brain, right? [00:29:25] Speaker 3: I don't remember that. I don't remember that. [00:29:28] Speaker 4: Your attorney asked you, isn't this what you searched at midnight? And you said yes. [00:29:33] Speaker 1: Objection, Judge. I don't think that was the answer. I don't recall. [00:29:37] Speaker ?: That's what I replied to. [00:29:38] Speaker 5: I'm looking up my notes to see what the answer was. And I'm not sure that I have it. [00:29:49] Speaker ?: I can move past it, Judge. Okay. Okay. Okay. [00:29:49] Speaker 5: You also looked up a chicken farm near me, right? [00:30:01] Speaker 4: Usually, I do. I didn't ask usually. I only want to know about the day that you found mocked the dead. [00:30:24] Speaker 3: I don't recall exactly if I searched on that day or not. [00:30:29] Speaker 4: But if it's in your Google searches, you did it, correct? [00:30:32] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:30:33] Speaker 4: Okay. [00:30:34] Speaker 3: But I don't recall I did it. [00:30:35] Speaker 4: Well, we're going to come to this. You've been to chicken farms before though, right? [00:30:41] Speaker ?: Yes. [00:30:42] Speaker 4: They smell pretty bad, don't they? [00:30:45] Speaker 3: Not necessarily. [00:30:48] Speaker 4: Do they smell good to you? [00:30:50] Speaker 3: It depends where you're going to go. [00:30:52] Speaker 4: A chicken farm. [00:30:53] Speaker 3: What part of chicken farm are you going to go? [00:30:58] Speaker 4: It's where the chickens are, the chicken farm. It smells pretty bad when you go up near the chickens, right? Yes, maybe. Chickens pretty much eat anything, right? I don't know that. [00:31:16] Speaker 3: They usually eat the grains. I don't know that. [00:31:19] Speaker 4: The smell is pretty strong at a chicken farm. It's a good place to hide a decomposing body, right? [00:31:31] Speaker 8: I don't know that. [00:31:38] Speaker 4: Never crossed your mind? [00:31:40] Speaker 3: Never. [00:31:41] Speaker 4: Just a random search at midnight in your home. [00:31:48] Speaker 3: I thought you said morning, but like usually I search. Usually I buy chicken from chicken farm. I never buy chicken from grocery stores. [00:31:56] Speaker 4: Got it. So you were thinking about buying chickens after you found your wife dead on the floor. What that was on your mind? [00:32:03] Speaker ?: No, I don't believe so. Okay. We're back to 4 a.m. [00:32:03] Speaker 8: You wake up. [00:32:26] Speaker 4: Okay. We're back to 4 a.m. You wake up. [00:32:32] Speaker ?: You wake up. [00:32:33] Speaker 4: Walk us through what you saw and what you did. Walk us through what you saw and what you did. [00:32:36] Speaker 8: Walk us through what you saw and what you did. [00:32:41] Speaker 3: When I enter to the room. [00:32:46] Speaker 8: When I enter to the room. [00:32:49] Speaker 3: Main room. [00:32:50] Speaker 8: Main room. [00:32:51] Speaker 3: Go to the bathroom. Go to the bathroom. [00:33:00] Speaker 5: I want to correct that. I say left. I want to pause. I want to pause. I'm sorry. That was an important correction. He said he wants to correct it. He said left. [00:33:20] Speaker 8: Debris. I say debris. So interpreter correct that. That's right, not on the left. Okay. Again, I want to correct that's left. Debris. They have a... [00:33:30] Speaker 5: They stand by these interpretations because interpreters say it. Okay. I need you to not argue. I know the interpreter has interpreted that to be right. The defendant has been saying that he means left. He speaks both languages. That's what the record should reflect is that he's trying to say to his left. [00:33:51] Speaker 4: Now, if I recall what you told the police, you told the police the baby sleeps with you when Manta has to work, right? [00:34:12] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:34:15] Speaker 4: But on Monday, July 29th into Tuesday, July 30th, Manta did not have to work, right? [00:34:26] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:34:29] Speaker 4: So why is the baby with you and not with Manta? [00:34:34] Speaker 3: Baby usually most of the time sleep with me. Even we both are same place. She sleep on the chest, on top of chest. [00:34:42] Speaker 4: Right. That's if you put the infant on your chest. What about the baby sleeping on her mother? [00:34:48] Speaker 3: Usually, I was the one making sleep. Not usually, most of the time. [00:34:53] Speaker 4: That's not what you told the police. Right? [00:34:59] Speaker 3: Similar, yes. [00:35:00] Speaker 4: No, you told the police something different. [00:35:04] Speaker 3: They did not ask usually, but usually I was the making sleep baby every day. [00:35:08] Speaker 4: Sir, isn't it true your words to the police was that when Manta has to work, the baby sleeps with you and vice versa? Yes. When you have to work, the baby sleeps with Manta. [00:35:22] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:35:25] Speaker 4: So, the baby should have been with Manta. [00:35:34] Speaker 3: Not necessarily. I wasn't working next day. [00:35:37] Speaker 4: Tell us why you weren't working the next day. [00:35:43] Speaker 3: I had an off. [00:35:46] Speaker 4: You took FMLA, Family Medical Leave Act. You took time off of your job, correct? [00:35:58] Speaker 3: I don't know what leave is that it's a baby, uh, paternity leave. That's all I know. [00:36:06] Speaker 4: God, you took a baby leave from your job. Yes, and you worked at GDIT, right? [00:36:15] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:36:22] Speaker 4: In your house. Get us there. If you walk up the stairs. And you turn to the. To the left. That's the master bedroom, right? Correct? Oh, yes. Okay. And then to the right of the stairs is two other bedrooms, right? [00:36:49] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:36:51] Speaker 4: Where were you sleeping, according to you, with Mott, with Nima on this night? To the left, to the right, right? [00:37:04] Speaker 3: Eastern room. [00:37:05] Speaker 4: Okay. So. Walk up the stairs to the right is your room. [00:37:19] Speaker 3: Right east. [00:37:20] Speaker 4: Down the hall is where Mott would sleep, right? [00:37:24] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:37:25] Speaker 4: So when you wake up at four o'clock in the morning, you actually walk past a bathroom before you get to the master bedroom, according to you, right? [00:37:35] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:37:36] Speaker 4: Why did you walk past the first available bathroom? [00:37:39] Speaker 3: We never used that bathroom. We never have any toiletry on that bathroom. We don't use that. That's only mom and dad used to use. [00:37:48] Speaker 4: But mom and dad were not in your house in July. [00:37:51] Speaker 3: We don't use that. No toiletries, no nothing on that bathroom. [00:38:00] Speaker 4: So, you wake up four o'clock in the morning. Where's the baby, by the way, when you wake up? [00:38:05] Speaker 3: With me. [00:38:06] Speaker 4: Where? [00:38:07] Speaker 3: With me. [00:38:08] Speaker 4: Holding her? [00:38:11] Speaker 3: No, no, no. No, no, no. [00:38:13] Speaker 4: So when you wake up at 4 a.m., where is the baby lying? [00:38:16] Speaker 3: On the room. [00:38:17] Speaker 4: On the bed? [00:38:18] Speaker 3: On the room where I was. [00:38:19] Speaker 4: On the bed? [00:38:20] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:38:21] Speaker 4: Not on the floor? [00:38:24] Speaker 3: On the floor, yes. [00:38:25] Speaker 4: So, not the bed, on the floor. [00:38:28] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:38:28] Speaker 4: You testified earlier, Nima was on the bed. Was that just a mistake or was that a lie? [00:38:39] Speaker 3: Not a mistake, not a lie. I, we both usually like, I do not recall every detail on that time, but usually like we sleep on the floor. Yes. [00:38:51] Speaker 4: This should be a pretty significant day in your life, correct? Yes. Finding your wife dead on the floor? [00:38:57] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:39:00] Speaker 4: Details matter, sir. Would you agree with me on that? [00:39:03] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:39:03] Speaker 4: Okay. Let's move past what you may have misspoken about earlier. So, when you get up, Nima's on the floor. [00:39:14] Speaker 3: It's a, not open floor, we put something, thin clothes, yes. [00:39:20] Speaker 4: A little cushion for her to lay on? [00:39:22] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:39:22] Speaker 4: Yeah, blanket, maybe a pillow. Something like that. Something comfortable for her? [00:39:26] Speaker 3: That's correct. [00:39:28] Speaker 4: I'm with you on this. So, you get up, you now go into the master bedroom. The lights are off in the master bedroom? [00:39:38] Speaker 3: Main light's off. [00:39:39] Speaker 4: So, it's dark? [00:39:41] Speaker 3: Main light's off, dim light's on. [00:39:44] Speaker 4: Dim lights are on. So, when you first walk into the room, what do you see? [00:39:56] Speaker 3: Not in the initially, I feel a smell, and then some kind of, some vibe before reaching to the bathroom. And then mumtah on the side of the. Made. [00:40:11] Speaker 4: You walk into your master bedroom? [00:40:14] Speaker 3: No. Wake or walk? [00:40:17] Speaker ?: Walk. [00:40:18] Speaker 3: Oh, yes. [00:40:18] Speaker 4: Walk into the main bedroom. You had not moved the bed yet, right? The bed is the furthest away from the door to walk into your bed, bedroom? I'll explain it again. When you walk into your bedroom, the bed is on the opposite wall, right? [00:40:42] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:40:43] Speaker 4: You're testifying that mumtah is lying at the foot of the bed, right? [00:40:49] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:40:49] Speaker 4: So, when you first walked in, you didn't see her laying there? [00:40:54] Speaker 3: I did not pay attention. [00:40:56] Speaker 4: You just saw a huge body on the floor, bleeding, vomiting, and didn't pay any attention to it? [00:41:03] Speaker 3: It was not on the way, it was on the side, not on my way. [00:41:07] Speaker 4: It's in your eyesight, right? On the side. To the side of your eye, you couldn't see your dead wife on the ground? Yes. [00:41:18] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:41:20] Speaker 4: Let's continue. You go to the bathroom? [00:41:23] Speaker 3: No. [00:41:23] Speaker 4: What do you do? [00:41:24] Speaker 3: Before the bathroom, I stop. [00:41:27] Speaker 4: Okay, so now you walk in, you smell something. [00:41:30] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:41:31] Speaker 4: What are you smelling? [00:41:34] Speaker 3: Something different, not usual at home. [00:41:39] Speaker 4: Did it smell terrible? Did it smell good? [00:41:48] Speaker 9: It wasn't good or bad, it was something different. [00:41:54] Speaker 4: Okay. So, you walk in, you get this smell. What do you do next? Okay. You're looking at Maapta. What do you do next? I went close to her. Okay. More details. What did you do? [00:42:25] Speaker 9: I tried to speak to her, talk to her. Would you say? [00:42:30] Speaker 3: Hey, Maapta, hey, Maapta. [00:42:31] Speaker 9: Hey, Maapta, hey, Maapta. Uh-huh. [00:42:35] Speaker 4: Does she respond? [00:42:36] Speaker 9: No. No. No. [00:42:41] Speaker 4: So, you're saying she's at the foot of the bed? Yes. How is she laying at the foot of the bed? [00:42:55] Speaker 3: Not as close to the bed. [00:43:08] Speaker 9: Not as close to the bed, her head was to the north and her feet were headed to the south. [00:43:19] Speaker 4: Judge, could I ask Mr. Bott to show us just by using the witness stand to demonstrate if that is the bed where in placement is Maapta's head and her feet? Identify where she's laying. [00:43:34] Speaker 1: As long as he's just asking to point these things out. [00:43:38] Speaker ?: Sure. [00:43:39] Speaker 1: Sure, you can do that. [00:43:41] Speaker 4: Mr. Bott, please. This witness box is going to be the bed. Come here, sir. Walk into your bedroom. Walk in. [00:43:56] Speaker 9: Okay, let's change focus. [00:44:11] Speaker 4: This is the bed. You walk in. We don't come off this head. Hold right there, sir. Okay. The judge's bench is the bed. No. This area is the bed. [00:44:40] Speaker ?: Wow. [00:44:42] Speaker 4: Okay. [00:44:45] Speaker 3: You don't like or cable. Cable? Stand. Thanks, sir. Bathroom. [00:44:54] Speaker 4: Bathroom. Okay. Smoke logic. Beautiful. Okay. We're now inside the bedroom. Yes. The vision of the bedroom. Yes. Where is Maapta's head in relation to the bed? Right here. Now, where is her body laying? Is she laying, like, in this direction? Yes. Yes. That's right. Is her head, if she's laying in this direction, is her head then closest to the bathroom, or closest to the other wall? I guess let me ask you another question. Where, if that's her head, where are her feet? Yes. Got it. When you approach Maapta, show us what you did. [00:45:54] Speaker 1: I'm going to object at this point to him reenacting. I'll sustain that. [00:46:08] Speaker 4: Okay, so, you approach Maapta's body, which direction, is she lying on her back? [00:46:19] Speaker 3: Not sitting, not sitting, sleeping. [00:46:21] Speaker 4: No, sleeping on her back? [00:46:24] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:46:26] Speaker 4: Lying on her back. Is her head facing up or to the side? [00:46:31] Speaker 3: Side. [00:46:32] Speaker 4: Which side? [00:46:34] Speaker 3: Waist. [00:46:36] Speaker 4: Towards the bed? Yes. Towards the bedroom door? [00:46:39] Speaker 3: Bed. [00:46:40] Speaker 4: She's on her back. Her face is turned towards the bed. [00:46:45] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:46:47] Speaker 4: What is she wearing? [00:46:48] Speaker 3: Something like a skirt. [00:47:10] Speaker 9: It is white with dots. [00:47:12] Speaker 4: Did you see anything coming from her mouth? [00:47:22] Speaker 3: Did you see anything coming from her mouth? [00:47:30] Speaker 5: What did he just say? He said something. You've got to translate that. [00:47:35] Speaker 9: I couldn't understand. [00:47:36] Speaker 5: Okay. [00:47:40] Speaker 4: Could you repeat the question? Sir, you said you saw vomit. Did you see vomit coming out of her mouth? [00:47:56] Speaker 3: Right, it was, according to you, it was on her, right? [00:48:07] Speaker 4: Did you see it also in her mouth? [00:48:09] Speaker 9: Nothing on the mouth is all outside. [00:48:16] Speaker 3: I want to repeat that. [00:48:21] Speaker ?: Yeah. [00:48:22] Speaker 9: Out of the mouth, but not on the mouth. [00:48:26] Speaker 4: Okay. Where did you see this vomit in relation to her head? [00:48:36] Speaker 3: Around the neck and on the side. [00:48:40] Speaker 9: Around the neck and on the side. Which side? [00:48:45] Speaker 4: Towards the west. Which, on her right side of her body or left side of her body? [00:48:57] Speaker 9: To the right. Also a little on the left. [00:49:02] Speaker 4: How close was Mata's body, according to you, to the foot of this bed? [00:49:14] Speaker 3: Almost a meter or less than a meter? Almost half a meter? [00:49:26] Speaker 9: Half a meter. [00:49:32] Speaker 3: Around a meter or something like that. [00:49:34] Speaker 4: Probably a meter. Did you also see blood? Yes. Where did you see blood? [00:49:42] Speaker 3: Mixed with time. Mixed up with the time. [00:49:49] Speaker 4: Mixed up in the vomit. And at some point, do you turn the lights on? [00:50:05] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:50:08] Speaker 4: Are you, like, shocked to see Mata laying there? [00:50:15] Speaker 9: Yeah, I was shocked. [00:50:30] Speaker 4: You testified that you saw a lot of things in the vomit. You saw pills. You saw spicy ramen noodles, right? That's what you said? [00:50:42] Speaker 3: That's what you said. That's what you said. [00:50:44] Speaker 9: That's what you said. That's what you said. That's what you said. That's what you said. [00:50:47] Speaker ?: That's what you said. [00:50:48] Speaker 9: That's what you said. That's what you said. That's what you said. That's what you said. [00:50:52] Speaker 3: That's what you said. That's what you said. That's what you said. That's what you said. [00:50:56] Speaker 9: You also said. [00:50:57] Speaker 3: That's what you said. [00:50:58] Speaker 9: That's what you said. That's what you said. [00:51:00] Speaker 4: So you saw a doll, which is yellow, right? No. [00:51:10] Speaker ?: No. [00:51:11] Speaker 4: Okay, what color doll did you see? [00:51:14] Speaker 3: Brownish, brownish, and then So you see two different types of doll, ramen noodles, pills, and body projectile, and blood. [00:51:46] Speaker 1: So you said something to the interpreter while the question is still going on. I just want to make sure that that is also reflective, either Mr. Butt needs to say it out loud or the interpreter. [00:52:08] Speaker 3: Two colors were mixed, but I couldn't really tell the color. [00:52:15] Speaker 5: Mr. Butt listen carefully, I would like you to wait for him to finish a question before you speak because it is too hard for the interpreter to interpret both. Okay? Sure. [00:52:26] Speaker ?: Thank you. [00:52:31] Speaker 4: Can you quantify, as best as you can, how much blood and vomit and doll and noodles, and you also testified earlier rice, are you seeing on this floor? [00:53:04] Speaker 3: Can you quantify, what you want to quantify, what you want to quantify, what you want to quantify. [00:53:12] Speaker 9: Can I show you with my hands or in kilos? Show us with your hands. [00:53:19] Speaker 5: Can the jury see that, you have to make the record. [00:53:28] Speaker 4: Mr. Butt could you stand up and judge, can I approach? [00:53:30] Speaker ?: You may. [00:53:32] Speaker 4: Show us again, and I'm going to be clear, this entire space with your two hands. Space is bigger. It's like space from here to here, space might be bigger, but like, you say quantify, that's [00:53:43] Speaker 3: why I cannot quantify exactly, but it looks like, I don't measure, but it looks like this. Well, you cleaned it up, right? Yes. So, how much of this did you have to scoop up? [00:53:54] Speaker 9: How much of this did you have to scoop up? [00:54:04] Speaker 3: I did multiple times. I don't exactly give you the quantity. It is all rough quantity. [00:54:14] Speaker 4: Again, show us again how much you saw from your middle finger to middle finger. [00:54:22] Speaker 3: It's not a scientific measurement, but I'm just rough. [00:54:24] Speaker 4: It's an approximation, but I've got to make a record. Show us again. This area between your two hands, from middle finger down to your wrist, wrist up to your other middle finger, this is the space of vomit, blood, noodles, rice, pills. Poison is what you saw coming out of Mopto, correct? [00:54:47] Speaker 3: I did not say coming, but I already saw that maybe space is bigger. [00:54:51] Speaker 4: You said Mopto had cell phones coming out of her body or that was in her vomit, right? [00:55:05] Speaker 3: I did not say that that might be possibility. [00:55:09] Speaker 4: This is possible? Yes. [00:55:11] Speaker 3: I did not say. I cannot clarify is it or not. Yes. [00:55:17] Speaker 4: Didn't you testify you found an open packet of this? [00:55:20] Speaker 3: Yes. Where? Down shelf of the closet. [00:55:24] Speaker 4: Say that again? [00:55:26] Speaker 3: Down shelf of the closet. [00:55:28] Speaker 9: Lower shelf of the closet. [00:55:29] Speaker 4: Lower shelf of the closet in the bedroom? The north side of the bedroom. [00:55:35] Speaker 3: The north side of the bedroom. [00:55:36] Speaker 4: But in the master bedroom? Yes. And how many packets of these are kept in your closet in your bedroom? [00:55:44] Speaker 3: Two. [00:55:45] Speaker 4: Two? [00:55:46] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:55:47] Speaker 4: And you found two? [00:55:49] Speaker 3: One open, one not open. [00:56:09] Speaker 4: You worked in a pest control business, right? Used to be. Used to. You're pretty good at catching the critters and spraying them down? [00:56:19] Speaker ?: No. [00:56:20] Speaker 9: Yes. [00:56:21] Speaker ?: You know what poison looks like, correct? [00:56:24] Speaker 9: Yes. [00:56:25] Speaker 4: You know what poison smells like, correct? [00:56:29] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:56:30] Speaker 4: You know what poison smells like, correct? [00:56:32] Speaker 3: Not all. [00:56:36] Speaker 4: If you were to open a pack of this selfos, what color would it be? [00:56:41] Speaker 3: I never use this by myself, but it should be like brownish white. [00:56:46] Speaker 4: And are you saying that you, is this a powder? [00:56:49] Speaker 3: Powder-type brownish white, yes. [00:56:52] Speaker 4: Who bought the selfos and put it in your house? [00:56:56] Speaker 3: I exactly don't know. It's supposed to be Mamta. [00:57:00] Speaker 4: Mamta would have bought this poison? [00:57:02] Speaker 3: Because it doesn't, here, it come from back home. Everything come from back home, she does. [00:57:09] Speaker 4: Meaning this was brought from Nepal? [00:57:11] Speaker 3: That is correct. [00:57:13] Speaker 4: Did you bring this from Nepal? [00:57:15] Speaker 3: No. [00:57:16] Speaker 4: So Mamta traveled internationally, from Nepal, to the United States, with poison? [00:57:21] Speaker 3: I did not say that. [00:57:22] Speaker 4: You said she brought it into the house. [00:57:25] Speaker 3: A lot of other stuff, clothes, this, that, you don't have to go over there to buy those. [00:57:30] Speaker 4: Focus, focus, the poison. The poison? The poison? Yes. Mamta brought this from Nepal? [00:57:37] Speaker 9: He had it brought to her. [00:57:47] Speaker 3: Sure. [00:57:48] Speaker 9: Okay. [00:57:49] Speaker ?: She brought them, ordered them for the cockroaches. Sure. [00:57:52] Speaker 3: Was Nima already able to walk about? [00:58:08] Speaker 4: At 10, withdraw, Nima was 10 and a half months old at this time, July? That's my question. At the time that you saw Mamta, July 30th, how old is Nima? [00:58:26] Speaker 3: Less than a year. [00:58:27] Speaker 4: Less than a year. Less than a year. She could walk. She was a little mobile. In the 17th? [00:58:33] Speaker 3: No. [00:58:34] Speaker 4: In the 17th? In the 17th? [00:58:36] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:58:37] Speaker 4: Yeah. In the 17th? A little bit. Right? Yes. And you're saying you left poison on the lower shelf of this closet that Nima could access? [00:58:52] Speaker 3: I did not left. [00:58:54] Speaker 4: That I didn't leave. Oh, this was Mamta's poison, not yours? [00:58:59] Speaker 3: Usually poison, any kind of those stuff, usually we don't put right there on the top. We put on the top's closet. At that time, I find on the bottom, that's all I know. [00:59:10] Speaker 9: Usually we put it on the top shelf, but that time it was on the bottom shelf. [00:59:17] Speaker 4: I'm going to get past this so I think I'm at the last section of this question. That selfose, that poison, you were able to see it in her vomit? [00:59:51] Speaker 3: Yes. After looking at it carefully, yes. [00:59:55] Speaker 4: Well, you said it was a powder, right? Powder? Yes. Doesn't powder absorb into fluids? [01:00:05] Speaker 3: That's why I say, like, clear fully look, then you can see, otherwise not. [01:00:10] Speaker ?: Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. [01:00:20] Speaker 4: When you saw Mamta in this condition, according to you, what do you do next? What do you do next? [01:00:44] Speaker 3: I tried to speak to her and when I didn't hear back from her, I went close to her. [01:00:55] Speaker 4: Okay. Now, you're close to her, you're trying to – what are you doing to her? [01:01:03] Speaker 3: When I didn't get a response back, I tried to put my hands on her and try to see if she's . That's when I saw all that. [01:01:18] Speaker 9: When I saw all that. [01:01:19] Speaker 4: At some point, you dragged her into the bathroom? [01:01:25] Speaker 9: That is after quite a while to get more water. When you're touching Mamta, is it fair to say she's dead at that point? [01:01:44] Speaker 4: Maybe, but I tried all the medical procedures. [01:01:45] Speaker ?: I knew. Whatever I know. [01:01:45] Speaker 4: Whatever I knew. And she didn't respond to any of them. No. [01:01:48] Speaker ?: According to you, you did chest compressions. [01:01:49] Speaker 9: CPR, yes. CPR, you did mouth to mouth? [01:01:51] Speaker ?: Yes. [01:01:51] Speaker 9: . [01:01:52] Speaker ?: Knowing that she didn't respond to any of them. [01:01:52] Speaker 9: No. According to you, you did chest compressions. CPR, yes. [01:01:55] Speaker 3: CPR, you did mouth to mouth? Yes. Knowing that she had poison. Yes. [01:01:59] Speaker 9: You're putting your mouth on her ingested poison mouth. Yes. Okay. And so she didn't respond to the chest CPR. [01:02:05] Speaker 3: She didn't respond to the chest CPR. She didn't respond to the chest CPR. [01:02:07] Speaker 9: She didn't respond to any of them. [01:02:08] Speaker 4: But I tried all the medical procedures. I knew. [01:02:10] Speaker ?: Whatever I knew. Whatever I knew. [01:02:12] Speaker 4: And she didn't respond to any of them. No. According to you, you did chest compressions. CPR, yes. CPR, you did mouth to mouth? [01:02:19] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:02:20] Speaker 4: Knowing that she had poison. [01:02:22] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:02:23] Speaker 4: You're putting your mouth on her ingested poison mouth. [01:02:27] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:02:28] Speaker 4: Okay. And so she didn't respond to the chest CPR. She didn't respond to the mouth to mouth. She didn't respond to your words. How long does this go on for? [01:02:42] Speaker 3: Exactly. I don't recall the time. Plus minus 30 minutes. Little bit over or around 30, 45 minutes. I don't exactly recall. [01:02:54] Speaker 4: You were military trained at this point, right? [01:02:57] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:02:58] Speaker 4: You also were trained, basic training, as a police officer, correct? [01:03:03] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:03:04] Speaker 4: And a light never went off to call medical professionals? [01:03:09] Speaker 3: Light. [01:03:11] Speaker 9: Light. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Right away, no. Right away, no. Right away, no. Not right away. [01:03:21] Speaker 3: Actually, ever. Yes. You never called 911. [01:03:24] Speaker 9: No. [01:03:25] Speaker ?: No. [01:03:25] Speaker 4: You said you were military trained. Yes. [01:03:27] Speaker ?: And trained as a police officer. [01:03:27] Speaker 4: Yes. [01:03:28] Speaker 3: You were trained to save lives. [01:03:29] Speaker 4: Yes. [01:03:30] Speaker ?: You were also trained to take lives, correct? [01:03:30] Speaker 4: Yes. [01:03:31] Speaker 3: No. [01:03:33] Speaker 4: You said you were military trained. [01:03:36] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:03:37] Speaker 4: And trained as a police officer. [01:03:39] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:03:40] Speaker 4: You trained to save lives. [01:03:42] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:03:43] Speaker 4: You were also trained to take lives, correct? [01:03:46] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:03:47] Speaker 4: You were trained to kill. [01:03:49] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:03:51] Speaker 4: You were trained how to kill with your hands. [01:03:53] Speaker 3: No. [01:03:54] Speaker 4: The army didn't teach you how to kill with your hands. [01:03:56] Speaker 3: They used weapons, hired arms. [01:03:59] Speaker 4: They didn't teach you how to fight in the military. [01:04:01] Speaker 3: I don't recall those. I don't think so. [01:04:05] Speaker 4: So no hand-to-hand combat in the U.S. Army is what you're saying? [01:04:09] Speaker 3: I don't think so, no. [01:04:11] Speaker 4: They trained you how to kill with weapons. [01:04:13] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:04:14] Speaker 4: What types of weapons? [01:04:17] Speaker 3: Machine guns, M16, MAK-47s, stuff like that. [01:04:21] Speaker 4: Heavy machinery. [01:04:23] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:04:23] Speaker 4: They also trained you how to kill with knives, correct? [01:04:28] Speaker 3: No. [01:04:29] Speaker 4: So the military never expected close-up encounters with an enemy combatant? They didn't train you for those types of scenarios? [01:04:37] Speaker 3: I had only the basic training. So, like, I never get any training with a knife or pistol or shotguns. I never get that, any training. [01:04:45] Speaker 4: You only learned how to kill with weapons. You didn't learn how to kill with your hands. [01:04:51] Speaker 3: I did not. [01:05:08] Speaker 4: You said that you brought water to Mabta. [01:05:20] Speaker 3: It was already there in the stand. [01:05:24] Speaker 4: Got it. So you had to get water from the stand and you tried giving it to Mabta. [01:05:32] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:05:33] Speaker 4: Did she drink it? [01:05:38] Speaker 2: I didn't mean to say that I was going to give the water in her hand. [01:05:44] Speaker 10: Mr. Pahd, explain that. What does that mean? I didn't mean to give it to the hand. [01:05:53] Speaker 4: You were going to pour the water into her mouth? [01:05:56] Speaker 3: That is correct. [01:05:58] Speaker 4: So did she drink the water that you're pouring into her mouth? [01:06:03] Speaker 3: No. [01:06:08] Speaker 4: And you're pouring, according to you, you're pouring the water into her mouth after you had tried to give her CPR? [01:06:17] Speaker 3: After. Mouth to mouth, after mouth to mouth, yes. [01:06:25] Speaker 4: Testified about a stethoscope. Tell us about this stethoscope. [01:06:31] Speaker 3: It is a device to, I don't know how to explain your device. [01:06:43] Speaker 2: It's a device that measures the heartbeat and the pulse. [01:06:47] Speaker 4: And so you thought that maybe you couldn't hear her heart, so you went to go get a stethoscope? [01:06:56] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:06:57] Speaker 4: Where was it? [01:06:59] Speaker 3: Downstairs where the baby plays. [01:07:01] Speaker 4: So these are all life-saving measures you're trying to take to save MAPTA, right? [01:07:13] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:07:14] Speaker 4: When you were in the military, you were awarded. [01:07:19] Speaker 3: CLS, yes. [01:07:20] Speaker 4: Combat life-saver course. [01:07:22] Speaker 3: Yes, CLS. [01:07:23] Speaker 4: What did you learn in that class? [01:07:26] Speaker 3: In that class, if there is a big wound, how to cover that big wound with available resources, even plastic, how to put the tourniquets on. Anybody, like, get severely wound, big wound, how to, you know, like, control immediate, clean the airway, breathe, and circulation. Those are the basic stuff I learned. How to put the nasal, some, I forgot the terminology now, and something in nasal, those stuff I learned. [01:07:57] Speaker 4: Nasal, you mean the nose? [01:07:58] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:07:59] Speaker 5: Can we just clarify that you used the word wound? [01:08:03] Speaker 3: Wound. [01:08:04] Speaker 5: I had heard that. He used the word wound. [01:08:09] Speaker 4: Yeah, the military was training you to save injured soldiers, right? [01:08:14] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:08:15] Speaker 4: And basic medical intervention is CPR. [01:08:21] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:08:26] Speaker 4: They also, in the military, they were putting you in these situations, that way you'd become familiar and not panic, right? Amen. [01:08:45] Speaker 2: Rehearsal, we do. [01:08:49] Speaker 3: Rehearsal, battle training, you do practice. [01:08:55] Speaker 2: Battle training, what do you say? [01:08:56] Speaker 4: Yeah. You were battle ready when you came out of the military, right? [01:09:01] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:09:02] Speaker 4: You even got a certificate for being able to save lives. [01:09:06] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:09:09] Speaker 4: Yet, you completely failed to save Mapta's life. [01:09:16] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:09:20] Speaker 4: And again, you're an IT guy, right? Information technology is your specialty? [01:09:26] Speaker 3: Civilian, yes. [01:09:31] Speaker 4: You're pretty savvy when it comes to cell phones. You're pretty familiar. [01:09:39] Speaker 3: Depends on what it is. [01:09:42] Speaker 4: And it never once crossed your mind. My wife's dead. Let me call 911. [01:09:57] Speaker 3: First, first, first, [01:09:58] Speaker ?: first, [01:09:58] Speaker 2: it did not come, then it came later on. [01:10:01] Speaker 4: When it came later on, what'd you do with it? What'd you do with that thought? [01:10:06] Speaker 3: I was scared. [01:10:07] Speaker ?: I was scared. [01:10:07] Speaker 3: I was scared. I panicked. I was very panicked. I was scared. [01:10:11] Speaker 4: So, as opposed to getting her life, getting professionals to save her, you thought, let me go get a stethoscope. [01:10:21] Speaker 2: And not only did you, [01:10:34] Speaker 4: what's wrong? When you woke up at 4 a.m., was your phone on you? [01:10:39] Speaker 3: On my room. [01:10:40] Speaker 4: In your room? [01:10:42] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:10:43] Speaker 4: Gotcha. When you, according to you, saw Martha, you said that her phone was laying onto the left side of her and a video is playing. [01:10:58] Speaker 3: I don't know if it was video or not. Screen light was on. Looked like video or call. I don't know. Looked like screen was on. [01:11:06] Speaker 4: And even seeing that phone right next to her body, you didn't think to call 911? [01:11:14] Speaker 3: At that time, I was very panicked. I did not able to do that. [01:11:19] Speaker 4: Okay. So, after you got the stethoscope, what would you do next? [01:11:24] Speaker 3: Try to find what I know, like heartbeat, pulse. [01:11:30] Speaker 4: And there was none? Yes. Now, what would you do next? [01:11:35] Speaker 3: I was tired. Try to keep, try to keep, try doing, keep tired, keep thinking. I don't know exactly every moment, what moment by moment, what I did. I was trying to do the same medical intervention. [01:11:51] Speaker 4: Let's get into your emotional state. You keep saying that you felt scared to call 911. Why? [01:12:06] Speaker 3: Because I was thinking not in the initially. Initially, I was just 100% focusing on the, what I know, the medical intervention. Later, I feel like I'm gonna get blamed because of our relationship wasn't good. And then, that day before, I was about to move out for the, you know, another place. I scared about that, I'm gonna get the blame. That's, that's what I scared about everything. [01:12:33] Speaker 4: And here you are today. [01:12:34] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:12:35] Speaker 4: Being blamed by the Commonwealth's Attorney's Office, correct? [01:12:37] Speaker 3: Yes. At that time, I don't think about [01:12:45] Speaker 4: your fear of being accused of murder was stronger than your feeling to save her life. [01:12:56] Speaker 2: Can you please repeat that again and say, [01:12:58] Speaker 4: Your fear of being prosecuted for murder, we'll take it in pieces. Your fear of being prosecuted was stronger than your feelings to save Mamta. [01:13:10] Speaker 3: Have you heard [01:13:34] Speaker 4: the expression consciousness of guilt? Can you repeat [01:13:43] Speaker 2: that? [01:13:45] Speaker 4: Did you feel guilty for her death? [01:13:52] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:13:53] Speaker 4: Did you feel responsible for her death? [01:13:56] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:13:57] Speaker 4: You are a contributor to her death, correct? [01:14:01] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:14:10] Speaker 4: You never saw Mamta put poison in her food, correct? [01:14:26] Speaker 3: No. [01:14:28] Speaker 4: And on July 29th, only two people could have put poison in Mamta. Would you agree with me on that? [01:14:37] Speaker ?: Yes. [01:14:40] Speaker 4: It was either Mamta poisoned herself, agree with me on that? [01:14:48] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:14:48] Speaker 4: Or, the more obvious one, you poisoned her. [01:14:53] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:14:56] Speaker 4: And you're saying you did not poison her? [01:14:58] Speaker 3: Never. [01:14:59] Speaker 4: Never? [01:15:00] Speaker 3: Never. [01:15:01] Speaker 4: You would never hurt her? [01:15:05] Speaker 3: Never. [01:15:07] Speaker 4: Not even withdrawn. Again, and I want to be crystal clear, you have never hurt Mamta ever physically? [01:15:22] Speaker 3: Never. [01:15:24] Speaker 4: You're telling the truth on that one? [01:15:29] Speaker 3: Yes. Yes. [01:15:33] Speaker 4: You recall watching your interview with Detective Ventura when she came to your house, she came a couple times? [01:15:53] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:15:54] Speaker 4: Female detective? [01:15:55] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:15:56] Speaker 4: She asked you about this plate smashing incident? You remember this? [01:16:01] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:16:03] Speaker 4: You hurt Mamta that day, right? [01:16:05] Speaker 3: That wasn't hurt. [01:16:06] Speaker 4: It didn't hurt? [01:16:07] Speaker 3: No. [01:16:08] Speaker 4: Did Mamta say when you smashed the plate in her face it didn't hurt? [01:16:11] Speaker 3: That wasn't hurt. That was not hurt. That wasn't no intention, no hurt, no, that wasn't anything. [01:16:18] Speaker 4: Sir, did you watch the video? You did? Yes. Tell me if I'm doing what you did correctly. You took the plate and you smashed it into her face. [01:16:27] Speaker 3: No. [01:16:28] Speaker 4: You didn't do that. [01:16:29] Speaker 3: That wasn't like even you look interview again like that wasn't the I was saying like Mamta fall down with the wire and then that comes in my head. I push like this that goes to Mamta that's what I said. That's what happened. [01:16:45] Speaker 4: I mean we saw it on the video but for the members of the jury could you stand up and show us how you did this thing with this plate? It was a small kitchen. This was in your Heather courthouse? No. This was in the Wickersham? [01:17:06] Speaker ?: That is right. [01:17:07] Speaker 4: Okay. You're in the Wickersham apartment. Continue. [01:17:11] Speaker 3: Kitchen was on the back right here. It was a little bit hot days. Kitchen all the way back. Little aisle here. And then small table here. Dining table small here. And then small black can was on the bottom. There was a wire. And she was bringing some from there to here. I was doing something. I don't recall every detail. So she said like [01:17:42] Speaker 2: so you trip. [01:17:45] Speaker 3: Yes. That's what happened. And then that plate come to my ear. And then I just push. That goes to and then I just stand up and then I go outside. [01:17:56] Speaker 4: All right. this coming in with a plate of rice plate of food. [01:18:03] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:18:04] Speaker 4: According to you, she trips. [01:18:07] Speaker 3: On the pan wire. Yes. [01:18:10] Speaker 4: Trips, the plate falls, it hits you in the head. [01:18:14] Speaker 3: I did not say hits on the head. It fell near my head. [01:18:17] Speaker 4: It fell near your head. [01:18:20] Speaker 3: Near my head. [01:18:21] Speaker 4: Near mints in my head. All right. So the plate hit you on the head. [01:18:28] Speaker 3: Honey going [01:18:29] Speaker 4: no she didn't throw it. That's not my question. Let me let me rephrase it because maybe we're not understanding each other. Mom the trips. The plate falls out of her hand. [01:18:44] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:18:45] Speaker 4: The plate [01:18:46] Speaker 3: touches [01:18:48] Speaker 4: your head. [01:18:49] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:18:50] Speaker 4: Okay. When the plate touches your head what do you do? So meaning like you pick up the plate? [01:18:59] Speaker 3: No. Just forcing back. [01:19:03] Speaker 4: And then the plate hits Mamta? [01:19:05] Speaker 3: Mamta is on the top head. [01:19:09] Speaker 4: And according to you this did not hurt Mamta? [01:19:12] Speaker 3: No. [01:19:12] Speaker 4: When you put the plate back towards her? [01:19:15] Speaker 3: No. [01:19:15] Speaker 4: You're saying you are not hitting her at this time? [01:19:18] Speaker 3: No. [01:19:27] Speaker 5: Mr. Sweep we're going to need to take our 10 minute break because it's a good time for that. Okay let's go ahead and do that then. [01:19:33] Speaker 2: Thank you.