About this transcript: This is a full AI-generated transcript of Lindsay Clancy trial Day 1 — Opening statements begin from Associated Press, published August 5, 2026. The transcript contains 30,601 words with timestamps and was generated using Whisper AI.
"First course, now on session. Please see it, please. All right. All right. Yes, please. Your Honor, we're going to point today to have a matter of comble of versus Lindsay Clancy. Ms. Clancy is present. She is represented by attorney Kevin Ruddinger. The commonwealth is represented by assistant..."
[00:00:00] Speaker 1: First course, now on session. Please see it, please.
[00:00:18] Speaker 2: All right. All right. Yes, please.
[00:00:21] Speaker 3: Your Honor, we're going to point today to have a matter of comble of versus Lindsay Clancy. Ms. Clancy is present. She is represented by attorney Kevin Ruddinger. The commonwealth is represented by assistant district attorney Jennifer Sprague and assistant
[00:00:33] Speaker ?: district attorney Shannon Hawkins.
[00:00:37] Speaker 2: All right, counsel, good morning.
[00:00:38] Speaker ?: Good morning.
[00:00:39] Speaker 2: Ms. Clancy, good morning. I apologize, everybody. We had some technological problems here, but I think we're ready to go forward. Before we continue, could I see counsel at sidebar just briefly?
[00:00:59] Speaker ?: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
[00:05:17] Speaker 4: Thank you. Thank you.
[00:05:23] Speaker ?: Thank you.
[00:05:23] Speaker 4: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
[00:05:33] Speaker ?: Thank you. Thank you.
[00:05:33] Speaker 4: Thank you. Thank you.
[00:05:43] Speaker ?: Thank you.
[00:05:43] Speaker 3: Thank you.
[00:05:45] Speaker ?: Thank you. Thank you.
[00:05:45] Speaker 3: Thank you. Thank you.
[00:05:57] Speaker ?: Thank you. Thank you.
[00:05:57] Speaker 3: Thank you.
[00:06:07] Speaker ?: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
[00:06:37] Speaker 2: All right. All right. Thank you, everyone. I'm sorry. That's the technology that we have here. I apologize. Before we get going, I want to ask you just a couple of questions to make sure that everyone was able to follow my instructions from last week. And so the first question would be, is any member of the jury read, seen or heard or overheard anything about any aspect? of this case that would affect your ability to be fair and impartial as a juror? All right. All answers, no, and the negative. Number three, the last question I just want to ask you, is there any other serious matter or concern bearing on your service as a juror in this case that anybody needs to bring to my attention? All right. Very good. Thank you again for following those instructions. And Madam Clerk?
[00:07:32] Speaker 3: Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, please stand and raise your right hand. Do each of you solemnly swear that you shall well and truly try the issues between the Commonwealth and the dependent upon according to your evidence don't help you God? I do. Thank you. You may be seated. Members of the jury have come to these amendments. On docket number 2383 CR00198, offense 001 on the charge of murder. The jurors for the Commonwealth of Massachusetts on their oath present that Lindsay M. Clancy of Dexbury in the county of Plymouth, on or above January 24, 2023, at Dexbury in the county of Plymouth, did assault, did assault and beat, did assault and beat, did assault and beat, did assault and beat, did assault and beat, did assault and beat, did assault and beat, did assault and beat, did assault and beat, did assault and beat, did assault and beat, did assault and beat, did assault and beat, did kill and murder, said Cora Clancy. On docket number 2383 CR00198, offense 002 on the charge of murder, the jurors for the Commonwealth of Massachusetts on their oath present that Lindsay M. Clancy of Dexbury in the county of Plymouth, on or above January 24, 2023, at Dexbury in the county of Plymouth, Dexbury in the county of Plymouth, did assault and beat, did assault and beat, did assault and beat, did assault and beat Dawson Clancy, with intent to murder him, and by such assault and beating, did kill and murder the said Dawson Clancy. On docket number 2383 CR00198, offense 003 on the charge of murder, the jurors for the Commonwealth of Massachusetts on their oath present that Lindsay M. Clancy of Dexbury in the county of Plymouth, on or above January 24, 2023, at Dexbury in the county of Plymouth, did assault and beat Callum Clancy. Intent to murder him, and by such assault and beating, did kill and murder the said Callum Clancy. To these indictments, the defendant at the bar pleads not guilty, and for trial places herself upon the country. Which country you are? You were sworn to try the issues. If she is guilty, you shall say so. If she is not guilty, you shall say so, and no more. meeting did kill and murder the said Callum Clancy. To these indictments, the defendant at the bar pleads not guilty and for trial places herself upon the country. Which country you are. You were sworn to try the issues. If she is guilty, you shall say so. If she is not guilty, you shall say so and no more. Members of the jury, harken to your evidence.
[00:09:59] Speaker 2: Thank you Madam Clerk. Now, members of the jury and really, this is the first time I can technically call you members of the jury because you don't become the jury in this case. So you take that great oath that was just given. And that's an oath that has been given to jurors for hundreds of years here in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. Where you've sworn to well and truly try this case. We have confidence that you're going to be able to do that. And so what I'm going to do at this point is I'm going to give what we call a precharge. And all that really is, is kind of an orientation to you, to the procedures that we're going to have as the case goes forward. And kind of go over some of the terminology that you might hear to give you a little bit of an idea what some of the principles of the law are that you'll have to apply to the facts as you find them. So as we go through this, I just kind of, again, I'm going to explain it. And then after that, we're then going to go right into the opening statements of counsel. All right. So first, as you know, this is a criminal case. And the defendant was charged by the way of an indictment on three counts. All right. Now you have to understand that an indictment is not itself any evidence of the defendant's guilt whatsoever. It's merely the formal way of accusing a person of a crime in order to bring her here to this courtroom for trial. You are not to draw any inference of guilt from the indictments or from the fact that she was indicted and formally charged. Now, in every criminal case, the defendant is presumed to be innocent unless and until she's proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. The law requires the commonwealth, that is the prosecution, to prove that the defendant is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. The law does not require the defendant to prove her innocence or to produce any evidence. At the end of this trial, you must find the defendant not guilty unless the commonwealth has proved to you beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant has committed each or any of the offenses with which he's charged. Now, I'll more formally instruct you on what reasonable doubt is later. But a charge is proved beyond a reasonable doubt if after you've compared and considered all the evidence you have in your minds and abiding conviction to a moral certainty that the charge is true. It's going to be your duty, the duty of the jury, to determine whether the commonwealth has proved its case against the defendant beyond a reasonable doubt. And that decision has to be based only on the evidence and the law that's presented here in the courtroom during the trial of this case. Now, the defendant has been charged in three counts of murder. There are two different degrees of murder. There's murder in the first degree and murder in the second degree. If you find the defendant guilty of murder, you shall decide the degree of murder. The commonwealth alleges that the defendant committed murder in the first degree on the following theories: murder with deliberate premeditation and/or murder with extreme atrocity or cruelty. Now, to prove the defendant guilty of any crime, the commonwealth must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant was criminally responsible at the time the alleged crime was committed. The commonwealth bears the burden of proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant committed the crime with which he's charged and also that the defendant is criminally responsible for her conduct. The defendant has no burden to prove a lack of criminal responsibility. Criminal responsibility is a legal term. A person is not criminally responsible for her conduct if she has a mental disease or defect or defect. And as a result of that mental disease or defect lacks a substantial capacity either to appreciate the criminality or the wrongfulness of her conduct or to conform her conduct to the requirements of the law. Now, just so you know, at the end of this trial, I will go over all of those legal principles in much greater detail. All right, so I just kind of wanted to give you a little bit of kind of an outline of what the law is on these charges. Now, I want to go over how the trial is going to proceed. And so that as soon as I'm done giving you this kind of pre-charge, the attorneys for the commonwealth and the defendant will have an opportunity to present their opening statements. The commonwealth goes first, the assistant district attorney will make her opening for the commonwealth, and after that, the defense may choose to make an opening statement at that time. They could defer to give it later in the trial, or they could just not give an opening at all. Because remember, the burden of proof is not on the defendant. All right, after the opening statements, one thing I did want to tell you, the opening statements are very important, but they are not evidence. All right, they're really, we used to call it when I was a lawyer, kind of just road maps. So you can kind of see where the case is going. So you can kind of see what each party's position is. All right, but they're not evidence. It's important for you to keep that in mind. After the opening statements, the commonwealth will then have their opportunity to introduce evidence in support of the charges. After that, the defendant may present evidence in her behalf if she wishes to, but she's not obligated to do so at all. Remember, the government, the commonwealth, has the burden of proof, and the defendant doesn't have to produce any evidence whatsoever. Now, there also, in this case, may be some rebuttal evidence. So you may, and we'll go over that, kind of the, how that works in regards to the case, but we get to that point. All right. Now, what is the evidence? Well, the evidence is generally from testimony. This is where the witnesses will testify from generally here. There may be some documents. There may be some videos. There may be some audios. And in addition to the evidence, we're going to take what we call a view. And a view, and I'll go over that again also a little bit later. But a view is we're just going to go to a number of spots and sites that may be relevant in this case. We're going to do that probably sometime either later this week or sometime next week. And I'll keep you advised as to that so you can kind of check the weather and kind of how we're going to go. So that would be generally the evidence. After the evidence is done, we'll go into what they call the closing arguments of the attorneys. Again, very important, but not evidence. All right. And then after the closing arguments, I get to come talk to you again. And at that point, I give what they call the judge's charge or just the instructions. And really what it means, I'm just going to explain to you what the law is. And you're going to have to take the facts that you find during the course of this trial and apply the law that I give to you to arrive at the verdict. And I'll explain what the law is in much, believe me, much more detail at the end of this trial. Okay. Now, I just kind of wanted to go over everybody's kind of function in this trial as we go forward. My function is pretty simple. All right. My function is to see that the case is tried in a way that's orderly, fair and efficient. It's also my function to decide on questions of law that might come up during the trial. And as I said, to instruct you what the law is that you have to apply. And it's your duty as jurors to accept the law, as I stated to you. All right. Well, what's your function? Well, your function is to determine the facts in this case. You are the sole and exclusive judges of the facts. You alone will determine what evidence to believe, how important any evidence is that you do believe, and what conclusions all the believable evidence leads you to. You are going to have to consider and weigh the testimony of each and all the witnesses who will appear before you. And you alone will determine whether to believe any witness and what extent to which you do believe that witness. It's going to be your responsibility to resolve any conflicts and testimony that might arise during the course of the trial. And it's your duty to determine where the truth lies. All right. That's your, your function. Now, you should, I want to comment, I'm going to sometimes be making rulings on objections and evidence issues. I'll be talking to the attorneys and talking sometimes to witnesses. Don't try, try to read into what I'm doing. In other words, I have no, I have no opinion as to what your verdict should be. All right. So if you think you are, you're trying to read between the lines, don't. All right. I have no opinion. Now, also during the course of the trial, uh, you may hear, uh, either, uh, like the, the three lawyers objecting. All right. Don't hold that against the attorneys. That's your job. All right. And generally the objections go towards the admissibility of some of the evidence or the questioning. It might be a different form that's needed. Uh, and that's what, that's what they're supposed to do. So don't hold it against either side if they're making objections. Uh, and what will happen is sometimes I'll just rule right from here where I'm sitting, uh, maybe an objection. If I say, well, that's sustained, that means I agree with the objection. And a lot of times the question is just asked a different way. Uh, if I say overruled, just means I disagree with the objection and the question can go forward and the answer can be given. All right. So that's just kind of the shorthand we use. Uh, there's going to be times, uh, during the course of a trial that I have to talk to counsel over at sidebar. All right. When I say sidebar at this point, that's going to be over here. All right. This is in this courtroom. This is the sidebar. And so a lot of times I'll have to talk to counsel over here because the law requires me sometimes to make decisions outside of your hearing. All right. So we do that over here. Um, it can be annoying. I know that. Um, but we do it over here because it's actually quicker than if we ask you to leave the courtroom because you've now see, you'd have to stand up, file out one by one, all the way down to the jury room. The court officer then says they're on the jury room. Then I talked to the lawyers. Then we resolved that you have to then file all the way back. So we found it's quicker. And so a lot of times those things really move a case along. So I apologize if we doing them, but that's the reason we do it. And that's the reason why we do it in the courtroom. Uh, if we're doing a sidebar conference, anybody needs to stand up, kind of stretch your bed back, uh, you're like, those are pretty comfortable chairs, but maybe sitting there for a while by all means do that. But when, when we're over here at sidebar, don't discuss with any other jurors kind of what's going on or what you think's going on over here. Right. So you just want to stretch. You can, um, now it, it during the course of this trial, anybody needs to communicate with me about anything, just let the court officer know and they'll let me know, and I'll talk to the, the attorneys who will deal with any of your, uh, concerns or any issues. Um, now until this case is submitted to you after my final instructions, you must not discuss it with anyone, even your fellow jurors or your family, friends, employees. Um, all right. So it's important that you keep an open mind and not decide this case in any way until the entire case has been submitted to you. All right. And that, that sounds easy at this point because you haven't heard anything, but as the case gets going, it gets harder and harder sometimes, even in the jury room, you can't start deliberating until you hear all the evidence. You can't start talking about it until you hear all the evidence, until you know the law that you got to apply. All right. Um, it, we're going to allow you, as the case goes forward, uh, to take notes. All right. And so, uh, anybody who wants to take notes, you can, uh, you don't have to. Some people find it helpful to remember. Uh, some people find it distracting. So that's just, it's up to you. That's your option. All right. You should know that, uh, those notes are your notes. That, I mean, uh, we can't let you take them home, but at the end of each day, they're, uh, collected, they're put in a secure place. Nobody reads them. I don't read them. The attorneys don't read them. Nobody reads them at the end of the trial. They're destroyed. Okay. Um, so, uh, but just some people, if you want to do it, we'll hand those out, uh, in a couple of minutes. Um, now I want to just kind of go over just some cautions, uh, as we're getting ready to start this trial. All right. First is, as I said already, please keep an open mind. Don't form any judgments or conclusions or views as to any aspect of this case. You haven't heard all the evidence and you must keep an open mind throughout this case and until the case is given to you in your deliberations. Two, as I said, don't talk about this case, about any aspect of the case, uh, with family, friends, uh, acquaintances or anybody like that. Three, uh, don't talk to any of the witnesses or parties or attorneys involved in this case. Uh, they've been instructed not to talk to you. We really want you to be comfortable. All right. And so if you do pass by, uh, one of the people involved in the case, if they go by you and don't say anything to you, don't hold it against them. Don't think they're not being respectful. Uh, they're following my instructions. We just want you to be comfortable throughout the course of this trial. Uh, now during the, another caution is during the time that you serve on this jury, there may be reports about this case in newspapers or, uh, social media or on the television. Uh, you may be tempted to look or listen. Don't do it. All right. My instruction to you is do not read anything about this case. Don't listen to anything about this case. If something comes on, turn it off. Uh, or if somebody starts talking about to say, you can't talk and you can blame me. That's my instruction. All right. Um, now sometimes during the course of a trial, evidence is presented that produces an emotional reaction. And that might happen in this case, but as jurors who have taken the oath to follow the law, and I'm instructing you that the law says you must separate any emotional reaction on your part from the informational value and weight of the evidence. You must find the facts in this case based only on the evidence. All right. I may, I may go into that a little bit later, but I just kind of wanted to remind you of that, um, in regards to that. Um, don't do any research on this case. All right. If you have any questions about things as you go forward, don't, you're not to do any independent research. You've got, as I said before, we've got three very, very experienced lawyers. They'll get you the information that you're going to need to come to the right verdict. All right. You can't do any research. The other thing is don't visit the scene of anything, any place that's described during the course of the testimony. So no field trips. All right. Um, as I said, we very well may be taking a view or to go see some of these places later on the trial, but that's the only time you should be there. Cause at that point you'll be under the supervision of the court officers, uh, the court, the attorneys will be there. Um, so that's the only time you're going to be allowed to do that. Um, now I think the reason for all of these caution is probably pretty, uh, clear, but it's just, we need to ensure that a fair and just trial is given to all the parties in this case. So if you follow those instructions, that's, you'll be able to do that. Um, in regards to the schedule, as I told you, um, what we're generally going to do is go, uh, start at nine. We're going to go to 11. Might be a little bit, might be off kilter a little bit today because of, uh, this part of the procedures. Go to 11. Then we'll go till one. There'll be a break from one to two. And we'll generally go two to three 30 or four. All right. Now, after saying that, as I told you, I think everybody this is a case that we may not be sitting every day. All right. And we may have to break early on certain days. So what I'm going to try and do as best I can is give you as much notice and explain to you kind of where we are as we go through the case. Um, and then, so that being said, we're not sitting tomorrow. All right. Something's come up, um, that, uh, has nothing to do, um, with, uh, any of the participants, but we can't sit. So the thought would be, we'll hopefully go most of the day today and then Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. All right. As the, as the week goes on, then I'll address you about how it looks for the next week. All right. And we'll try as best we can to keep you, uh, you know, up to date in regards to the schedule and also the progress that we're making on this case. All right. So, um, that's pretty much what I wanted to address you in this precharge. Um, these instructions are very preliminary. They're intended, as I said, just to acquaint you with the procedure and the framework of how this case is going to go forward. I'm going to talk to you later on in the trial in a much more detailed explanation of what the law is and what your obligations are. Um, but I know, I know that you're going to try this case according to the oath that we talked about that you took as jurors, where you promise you would well and truly try the issues between the defendant and the commonwealth according to the evidence in the law. If you follow that oath and try this case without fear or prejudice or bias or sympathy, you'll arrive at a true and just verdict. I'm confident of that. And also have confidence in yourself. All right. You can do this. The lawyers and I asked a number of questions and we all decided and chose that you would be the people who could make this decision. So everyone has confidence in you. You should have confidence in yourself in regards to, uh, sitting on this jury and delivering the just verdict on this. So at this point, I'm going to now see if the Commonwealth is prepared to give their opening statements. Come on. Ms. Buckingham. Sorry. Thank you, Your Honor.
[00:29:09] Speaker 5: Ms. Buckingham. Morning, ladies and gentlemen. Cora. She had just turned five. She was sweet, silly, smart. She loved sparkly dresses and wearing bows in her hair. She loved princesses and baby dolls. She even tried to convince her preschool teachers at the beginning that her name was Sophia because she loved the Disney character Sophia the first so very much. Dawson. He was three. A boy's boy. He was a bit rambunctious but funny, full of energy. He loved trucks. Construction trucks, fire trucks. And he spoke with a raspy little voice. He was a bit rambunctious. Callan. Callan was just eight months old. Always smiling with chunky cheeks. A sweet little baby. We are here, ladies and gentlemen, because they are not. They were strangled. Deliberately and meticulously. Killed by this defendant on January 24th of 2023. One by one, she brought exercise bands around each one of the kids' necks and pulled until their little bodies were limp and lifeless. First Dawson, then Cora, and finally Callan. Your job, ladies and gentlemen, is not easy in this case. The evidence will be difficult to see, to hear, to process. Testimony of witnesses, family, friends, teachers, people who knew the Clancy family. People who saw them regularly. People who saw them on the day in which this defendant killed them. They're all going to come before you. And it may be heartbreaking to hear what they have to say. You'll see photographs of the crime scene. You'll hear testimony from first responders. They're going to tell you about what they discovered when they came into the Clancy home at 47 Summer Street in Duxbury on January 24th. You'll hear evidence about the defendant during that time period, observations of her physical appearance, her demeanor. You'll hear testimony about what she was reporting to her friends and family and doctors during this time period. The list of witnesses is quite long: law enforcement, firefighters, friends, family, teachers, crime scene investigators, forensic scientists, toxicologists, medical examiners, experts. We expect over the next few weeks that you will be able to present to you a clear picture of what was occurring in the Clancy household on January 24th of 2023. We ask that you keep an open mind when you're hearing this evidence. And during the course of the trial, don't forget that you use your common sense and your life experience. Those are things that you bring as jurors to the courtroom every day. And it's what's going to take you into the deliberation room at the end of this trial. So what happened? On January 24th, 2023, it had recently snowed. It was, in fact, a Tuesday. Tuesdays were days that Cora and Dawson usually went to preschool. They attended the Learning Sprouts Preschool in Duxbury. But they didn't attend on Tuesdays. So on this day, they were home. On this particular day, Cora, who had just turned five, had an appointment at the doctor's, an annual checkup. And so the defendant brought her first thing in the morning to the doctor's. The defendant's husband, Patrick Clancy, was home and he was caring for Callan and Dawson while defendant took Cora to the doctor. Pretty normal. You'll hear and see that Patrick and the defendant exchanged text messages that morning. Patrick sends a photo of Dawson, who had just dressed himself that day and he was jumping for joy. And he sends that text to the defendant while she's at the doctor. And while at the doctor, the defendant sends a text of Cora and her little Johnny and mask to Patrick. When the defendant and Cora returned home that morning, Patrick went downstairs to his basement office to do work, same as he had normally done on any other day since returning from paternity leave. And then the defendant was charged with caring for the kids for the rest of the day. She put Callan down for a nap, bundled up Cora and Dawson, took them outside to the backyard and played in the snow. They built a snowman. The defendant sent pictures of the snowman and the kids in the snow to Patrick when he's working in the basement and her mom, who was living in Connecticut, who had just been there that weekend but had gone home. The day proceeds as normal. You'll hear Patrick describe it as a good day, actually. In the late afternoon, around 4pm, the defendant searched on her phone for Kids Miralax. She searched "takeout 3B" and she opened the Apple Maps on her phone and searched the route that it would take to get from their house to the 3B restaurant in Plymouth. She searched how much time and how far it was. Now this restaurant had been a place that the family had eaten before, but wasn't their normal takeout spot. She also called CVS and asked them about the kids' Pedialax or Miralax. And that's because at the doctor earlier that day, the doctor had recommended a laxative for Cora because she had some stomach issues. She had complained of an upset tummy at school the day before, you'll hear. She had some issues, but she didn't like to go to the bathroom at school, a little bit embarrassed. So they suggested the PELax. So she calls CVS and she confirms that they actually have it at their local CVS in Kingston. Then she sends a text to Patrick and asks if he wants to get takeout, if 3B is okay. She didn't feel like cooking dinner. It was a long day. He says, "Sure." She calls in the order. When Patrick leaves the house around 5:15 that evening, everything is normal, seems normal. He sees Dawson eating chicken nuggets and green beans on the couch before he walks out the door. Patrick leaves to go to 3B and he's going to stop at CVS on the way there. That's when the clock starts, ladies and gentlemen. The defendant knows that Patrick has to stop at CVS, go to 3B. She knows that it's about five miles from their house to get to the restaurant. She knows it's approximately how much time she has for him to go there and come back. She then takes the children down into the basement. She separates Dawson from Cora and Callan and then she proceeds to wrap exercise bands around each child's neck and pull until they are dead. She leaves the bands wrapped around each child's neck and goes back upstairs. In the kitchen, she gets a knife and then she proceeds to the second floor of the home. In the middle of this, she misses a call from Patrick. He's at CVS. She misses the call. She calls him right back and they talk for 14 seconds. Nothing that she does or says in that phone call is of concern to Patrick. He proceeds on his task and she proceeds with hers. She goes to the second floor master bedroom, locks the door, crushes up some pills and attempts to take her own life. She uses the knife she got in the kitchen to slash her wrists and her neck. She moves the bed away from the wall away from the window. She opens that window and goes out. She lands on the cold hard ground. Shortly thereafter around 6 p.m. Patrick comes home. He's got the takeout bag and the CVS bag with the medicine. He enters into the house through the mudroom door into the kitchen area, places the bags down, eerily quiet. He calls to the kids, no answer. He calls to the defendant, no answer. He takes out his phone and dials the number for Lindsey's phone, defendant's phone, no answer. He then goes upstairs and finds the master bedroom door locked. He opens it and enters the room, sees blood and the window open. He then goes to the backyard and that's where he finds the defendant. She's on the ground, outside that window, moaning and mumbling. At 6:11 p.m. he calls 911 for help. First responders arrive to the home almost immediately. He's still on the phone with 911 when the responders arrive and they go right to the backyard and tend immediately to the defendant. While they're with the defendant, Patrick tells the first responders, I need to find my kids. He had asked the defendant where the kids were and she told them they were in the basement. So when he went in the house, that's the first place he went down into the basement. He's still on the phone with 911 when he finds each child with an exercise band still wrapped around their neck. He screams for help and he says she killed the kids. Efforts made to resuscitate Cora and Dawson were futile, but first responders from Duxbury and the surrounding communities were persistent and they kept trying to resuscitate them all the way to the hospital. But when they arrived at the hospital there was nothing more that medical staff could do for Cora and Dawson. The staff at Beth Israel were able to get a heartbeat on Callan, but he never started breathing on his own. He never regained consciousness. He had no brain activity. He was transferred to Boston Children's Hospital where he died three days later on January 27th. The defendant was taken to South Shore Hospital and then transported subsequently to Brigham and Women's in Boston. She had multiple traumas including spinal injuries as well as superficial injuries to both her wrists and her neck. She is paralyzed. We expect during the course of this trial that you'll hear the defendant made claims that either right after Patrick left the house or after he called her from the CVS, depending on which version of the events she's telling, she heard a voice, a male voice, a voice that she had never heard before, a voice that she never heard again, and that voice told her that it was her last chance that she had to kill the kids so that she killed herself. She immediately took action when she heard the voice with no direction or details from this so-called voice and she killed the children. Once she killed the children, the voice stopped. When you consider this information in the course of the trial, ladies and gentlemen, I ask that you consider the source, the timing, the substance of her statements about this voice. You're also going to hear from, or you may hear from, forensic psychologists and psychiatrists who talk about what's called command hallucinations and voices that people hear before they do something. When you hear that testimony, I ask that you keep in mind the details of what she's saying the voice told her and the details of when this voice spoke to her. Another important thing to remember throughout the course of this trial is that this is not a case about the Lindsay Clancy that sits before you today. This case is about the Lindsay Clancy on January 24, 2023, at the time of the crimes. This was not a woman in the throes of psychosis on January 24, 2023. This was a woman who acted intentionally, rationally, and swiftly to accomplish a very specific goal: to kill. You'll see and hear evidence about all the things that she did that day, what she did in the days leading up to this incident, leading to the murders. You'll hear her spending time with her family and friends. You'll hear her appearing to be in good spirits and doing better for all intents and purposes. On that very day, you'll hear she interacted with people at the doctor's office. She came home and took care of the kids. She talked to people on the phone and via text message. The evidence will show you she was not psychotic that day. Throughout the evidence in this trial, you will learn about the defendant being the classic overachiever in school, in her personal life, in her nursing career. She was someone who liked to control every little detail of her life, of her family's life. In contrast to pictures you'll see of the doting mother, the dedicated nurse, you'll also see a side of Lindsey Clancy that's different. Somebody extremely controlling, meticulous, and manipulative. The days were laid out with specificity. Strict schedules were expected to be maintained. Food was planned carefully. Sleep was scheduled to the minute. And in the time after Callan was born, her last baby, the family had to adjust. And by all sources that I expect you're going to hear at that trial, that summer was great. But after Patrick had finished his paternity leave and was back to work full time, when she no longer had a nanny to watch the baby do laundry, tidy up the house, follow her schedule, when she was responsible for it all. It was hard. It was hard for her to maintain that control. It was hard for her to bond with her kids. And in efforts to maintain control, she withheld information from her husband, from her doctors. She reported serious symptoms that were inconsistent with her daily activities you'll hear. And ultimately, on January 24, 2023, the defendant made a calculated decision. This was a woman who no longer liked the life she thought she wanted. It was getting harder and harder to control. And when she saw the opportunity to escape, she made the selfish choice to take it. And to take Cora, Dawson, and Callan first, before attempting to take her own life. Ladies and gentlemen, this is not a public debate about women's mental health and how the medical system treats women. This case is about this defendant, Lindsay Clancy. There is no dispute that she was dealing with mental health issues during this time period prior to the murders. There'll be medical records, medical doctors, mental health professionals that will talk about treatment, prescriptions, hospital visits, all that's going to be before you. The evidence will show that this defendant had a means and access to mental health that most people don't. And she chose to deal with her mental health issues in the worst way. She chose to manipulate her providers, seek out the quick and easy fix when she was feeling depressed and anxious. And when she didn't get what she expected, she chose an alternate route. She sought a different doctor. She changed medications after days. She disengaged from treatment when she didn't like the plan. After only four months in treatment, she made a choice, a deliberate and intentional decision that she did not want to try anymore. And because no one could take care of her kids the way she wanted them to. She had to take them with her. Despite all the precision that she exhibited that day, you'll hear the timing of it all, the swiftness of the killings, overcoming the interruption of Patrick's phone call. What she did not anticipate was that she would not be able to complete the act by killing herself. Ladies and gentlemen, people with mental illness commit crimes every day and are responsible for them. The fact that someone may suffer or have a mental illness, a mental disease or defect, is not the end of the inquiry when it comes to guilt or innocence. It is whether a person can appreciate the wrongfulness or criminality of the conduct and conform their conduct to the law. Do they know what they were doing? And can they control their actions? The evidence in this case will prove beyond a reasonable doubt that this defendant coldly and efficiently executed, first Dawson, then Cora, and finally Callan. One by one, she strangled the life out of each one of them. She did so with no hesitation, with deliberate premeditation and extreme atrocity and cruelty. She is criminally responsible for the murders because the evidence will prove to you that she knew exactly what she was doing. She drew her husband out of the house, their father, so that she had the opportunity and the time to carry out these murders. She maintained the ability to control her conduct, conform her conduct, when she attempted to kill herself to escape the consequences. At the conclusion of this case, we're going to come back and we're going to ask that you return guilty of the murders of Cora Clancy, Dawson Clancy, and Callan Clancy, because the defendant committed those crimes.
[00:49:03] Speaker 2: All right. Thank you, counsel. Mr. Reddington, do you wish to give an opening? I do.
[00:49:14] Speaker 6: Your Honor, I might use the easel, may I have to place it in front of the TV screen so that the jurors are able to. Thank you. We thank jurors for your time away from your life, your jobs, your family, coming to court, listening to a trial, certainly as a service that's provided by you as citizens, but in this case, God bless you, you people are going to have to listen to some of the most horrific things. Look at some of the most horrific things. In jurors, it's a beautiful system. You pass between, as you've heard Don Clark say, you probably don't remember it, but it's all language. It was back to old England. It says that you as jurors pass between the government, them. And she places herself on her country, which country you are. You owe allegiance to nothing but your oath, your consideration, and your time. Your common sense. You bring your life experience to this trial. You render a beret. And as jurors' experiences, take the job very, very, very seriously. You people will never forget this case. Um, and thank you for that service. The government says that this is a situation. It's not a referendum on women's having babies and having postpartum psychosis, postpartum depression. But it sure as hell is. Because you're going to hear, consistent with what his honor told you in the instructions, consistent with the obligation that the government has when they brought this charge, they brought this charge. Tim Cruz, the DA, right in the front row brought this charge. He knew, as did his office, the facts of this case. And he knew, when he brought this charge, that it was going to kill the soul of this young woman. And they would bring their evidence in front of a jury that she knows that she killed these children. We'll sit here and listen to their evidence. But I suggest to you that the issue of consideration is what was going on in that woman's mind. So, you're going to hear evidence that, as the government said, Lindsay was a kind of a parent pleaser. She was a person that, in school, had a lot of friends, still has friends. You'll hear evidence to this day from the sixth grade. High school, college, nursing school. You're going to hear evidence that Lindsay, in the course of being in high school, she was high-achiever gymnastics. Stopped doing gymnastics because she hurt herself and didn't like to do the backflips and stopped doing gymnastics. But she was very athletic. You're going to hear evidence that right after she had the birth, the last child, within four or five days, she ran a 5K. She was very, very, very physically fit. Her life was such that she watched what she ate, watched what she did in her life as far as activities, and was one heck of a mother. She loved her children. All the things that the D.A. said to you about those little kids and their life and what they like, she knows a thousand times more than what they know. In that capacity, as a mother, daily, you'll see evidence that she would decorate looms, that she and Patrick did have that achievement of a wonderful life. They had it all. They met in Boston. She was a young nurse out of school. He was working in his industry. They ended up falling in love. They got married. Bought a nice house. And, you know, people say, oh, they're living in this mansion. No, they're living in a very, very humble house in Duxbury that they had to struggle to pay for. That house, you will see, not from the view, because it's not enough that we have photographs. On top of the photographs, we have to do a video. And on top of the photographs and the video, we have to have an auto-computerized animated display. And on top of the photographs, the video, the animated display, we have to get on a bus and go take a ride and look at the house where some guy and his wife are now living that it doesn't look at all like what it looked like when Lindsay and Patrick were living there with their three kids. But there are videos that show what that home looked like that day prior to that. You'll see in every room there are things hanging on the walls, alphabets, colors, numbers, pictures of different cartoon characters that aren't too old to even remember what they are, movies, all sorts of toys, erector sets, trucks all over the living room. There was no dining room. It was a large thing for the baby to be in and then surrounded by toys. Every single room had toys in it. There was no dining room. all of those children right up to the time of their death. There's photographs in this case that you will be able to evaluate that show that. Some of them might even be in the videos that the state police took. This case is a massive production by the district attorney's office. The district attorney's office, the assistant district attorney's office, the assistant district attorney's office, the assistant district attorney's office. You have the state police crime laboratory. You have the detectives. You have the armed men that will go out and interview witnesses and will investigate this case. You have the victim witness advocate, very nice lady by the way, that deals with witnesses and people in a case such as this. It's a massive operation and that's great. We should have that. But when you're considering the evidence, you consider the fact that you have two young people that were living this life, that were working in Patrick. Not because of COVID. Not because of he just didn't want to work in an office anymore. He worked out of his basement. He worked in an office in the basement. He was there because of what Lindsay was going through. He was there. He lived it. And he will testify to it. He doesn't have to testify, quite frankly, and identify clothing and be placed in a position of horror in this courtroom. But he will testify to what they went through as a husband and a wife, the wife being pregnant. They had three kids. After the second child, she had postpartum. You're going to hear evidence that that's one of the issues that is important because that could lead to bipolar. One of the things that you don't do, which is taboo, is if you have somebody that's bipolar, you don't put them on an antidepressant. You don't put them on Zoloft. You don't put them on what's called an SSRI. Selective serotonin reuptice inhibitor, but you don't do that, but it was done in this case. The reason that Lindsay went to the doctors was in September of 2022. July and August of 2022. They were very happy. Lovely little family. September. Things went sideways. And she looked for, and you heard the government say, and remember what they say in the opening. And remember that when they prepare a case. And remember how they can, they can point at different aspects of the case that show that shows that somebody's conniving. In this case, how many times we've heard she faked the suicide. Faked the suicide. Little cuts. Dinky little cuts. Scratches. You'll get stated in the opening statement or time of the arraignment. That she asked for a lawyer. That's rich. You're going to hear evidence that she was in her bedroom after the horrific act in the basement. And that she was up in the bedroom. That she stood in front of a full length mirror. That she took the knife. The knife that was in the kitchen. That she had taken. When she took the knife. She cut her throat in front of the mirror. This is no fake suicide. This is her when she was brought to the hospital. That's what her appearance was at the South Shore Hospital. When she's at the South Shore Hospital, she had wonderful care and treatment that was able, against her will, to save her life. Big suicide. Little scratches. Dinky little scratches. This is a photograph that was taken at the South Shore Hospital of her neck. Photograph taken of her wrist, showing the split in the skin. Photograph showing, you'll see evidence of this. The bedroom floor next to the bed with the blood. The knife next to the cup. Sadly, a gift, same because kids. You see the white residue inside the cup. That's where the pills were crushed up. With leftover lemonade from the night before. When she consumed that. That's the knife. This here you'll see is sleep aids. See this here? Deep sleep pillow spray. She couldn't sleep. She couldn't sleep for months. More photographs of the injuries to her neck. And then, in the course of the fake suicide speculation by the police, you'll see the evidence that she hung on the window ledge. And like Spider-Man, I guess, slid down the wall of the house. You're going to hear evidence that she flung and threw herself out the window. Striking her head on the ground. Pulled around. Causing what's known as a Jefferson fracture of her neck. She shattered, exploded her thoracic spine. Shattered her cervical spine, the first disc. Broke every rib. And the Jefferson fracture you'll hear evidence is not consistent with a fake suicide by any means. Jefferson fracture is consistent with Superman when he gets thrown off the horse. It's consistent with people that have the tragedy where they dive into a swimming pool as a result of which they get that fracture in their neck and they're paralyzed. She's paralyzed. She's not going to get up miraculously and walk out of this courtroom. She's paralyzed and will be paralyzed for the rest of her life. She's living her own health. She knows what happened with those kids. And she wanted to die. When she was in the hospital, you're going to see evidence. The Brigham and Women's Hospital. When they transferred her from South Shore Hospital, air flight into Brigham and Women's Hospital. And she was then given the emergency room with the emergency treatment at the Brigham and Women's Hospital. You couldn't move in that room. There was so much equipment. So many wires. So many breathing tubes. So many machines. Humming, banging, clicking. And she's spread out like she's crucified on the bed while she's being treated in that room. Surrounded by armed police officers. Out in the hallway. Guarding the hallway against what? Anyone could guess. Guarding the hallway. Guarding the room. Guarding the bed. Standing there. She's handcuffed to the bed. She goes to the South Shore Hospital. And the government speculates that. Again, you see how the government is able to create what they want for facts. That she is so cold and calculating. That she said that she's heard voices. After I brought a psychologist. Dr. Zeisel into that room to see her. I had to move heaven and earth. You'll hear evidence that they wouldn't even let her have visitors. She couldn't even see her family for over a week. The cops wouldn't let anybody near her. That room was an armed camp. I had to move heaven and earth and practically get a court order. To be able to get in there and see her. While she's laying in the bed. And they suggest. And will suggest. That she said. I heard voices. I heard command hallucinations. Telling me to kill the kids. And then kill myself. After she talked to Paul Zeisel. As if he was. Telling her what to say. Because I'm the lawyer. And I brought him into that. Hospital. You're going to hear evidence that Paul Zeisel. Is one of the most respected psychologists. You're going to hear evidence that he was. Embedded with the military in Afghanistan for years. You're going to hear evidence. That he works for the government. When there's a shooting involved in the FBI. The CIA. Or any of those. Alphabet soup cops. He's involved out interviewing these people. For post-traumatic stress. I knew that he was the man. To talk to this young woman in the hospital. When I finally was able to get. Into that room. Into that hospital. He was with me. He did not tell her. Command voices. He as a human being. Gave her a cell phone. So she could call Patrick. But you know what. You're going to hear evidence. From a woman. Who works at Brigham Williams Hospital. Who saw Lindsay. As soon as she came out of. Her coma. She is a woman that works. With the religious services. In that hospital. And the first thing that Lindsay wanted to know. Is where's my family. And then she told her. About what happened. And told her. About the command voices. This is well. Before she ever. Met me.
[01:06:38] Speaker ?: Met me. Met me.
[01:06:39] Speaker 6: Apologizing. So you have to keep. Focused. On the evidence. Because it's so easy to manipulate. There's no fake suicide. And there was no. Plan. To fake. Her sickness. This is a young woman. That. With her husband. Tried very hard. To get the help she needed. She went and saw. A doctor. By the name. By the way. Remember in the opening. The government said. She shopped around for doctors. I guess. That she wanted to get doctors to. I don't know. Give her drugs or something. You can hear evidence. That she went online. And she looked for someone. That was into neonatal. Post baby delivery. Because she knew. That she was in trouble. She couldn't sleep. She had insomnia. It wasn't just. You know. When you get up in the middle of the night. Because your phone's on. She couldn't sleep. She could only get two hours a night. Three hours a night. If she's lucky. As time went on. In September. She went. To see Dr. Tufts. Jennifer Tufts. Is the name of the doctor. Jennifer Tufts then. Gave her a prescription. The Zoloft. Which is a antidepressant. It's one of those. SSRIs. She didn't take the Zoloft. For a couple of weeks. Because she was breastfeeding. She was afraid to have the baby. Have anything to do with drugs. But ultimately couldn't do it any longer. Took the Zoloft. And was spun out of control. Well because. You can hear evidence. Because she was bipolar. You don't give a bipolar person Zoloft. But she got it. You're going to see. What the effect was. That it had on her. As that week went on. As that month. Drove on. And she couldn't sleep. And she was. Able to. Unable to emote. Had no emotions. Had no feelings. Was unable to. Really react to anything. But had to take care of the kids. And as the government says. Well. She was able to talk to people. She was able to talk to neighbors. Sure. You're going to hear. Because they don't call them. We're going to call them. People that knew Lindsay. As a mother. People that knew Lindsay. Teachers. Of those kids. Will indicate. What kind of a mother she was. As will neighbors. As will friends. As will people that saw her. During that period of time. You're going to hear evidence from Patrick. As to the effect. That this sickness had. On her. She was looking into it. You're going to see her. Her google searches. You're going to see her google searches. Go on and on and on. About. How to take care of postpartum. What type of drugs. Can you become addicted to benzodiazepines. What about. Is it possible to have a treatment. A ketamine treatment. What do I do as far as insomnia. What do I do about my thoughts. To kill myself. Ways to kill. How do you kill. What do you do to kill. Government lashes onto that. Oh my god. She's looking up ways to kill. Let's make that a basis of our prosecution on this case. This is not a righteous prosecution. They're looking for every single piece of evidence that they can. To show some ridiculous concept. That she wanted to kill her beautiful kids. Because she didn't want to be a mother anymore. This is a woman that was a nurse. She worked for one of the best hospitals in the country. She was in a labor delivery. You're going to hear from labor and delivery nurses. That will tell you how dedicated she was. Cora was named after the very very first baby. That she delivered as a nurse. In the hospital. That's where the name Cora came from. Cora was named after her first delivery. This is a woman who did nothing in her life. But dedicated her life to helping people. And be a good person. And a good nurse. And a great mother. And as time went on. Looking like anyone else would. Please help me. That's what it's all about. Give me help. And people can say. Well the government will say. She was able to talk to people. She wasn't drooling. She wasn't putting tin foil inside of a hat. When she was going to the schools. No. She was able to talk to people. We actually have. We meaning the government. We have video of her. And Patrick and the kids. At the Museum of Science. And they were actually having a good time. We also have. Video that shows them down at. The Cape Carter. Down the Cape. With the kids. In their invading suits. I guess. She was fine. She put on a pretty good face. So. What does she do? She goes to see. September 12th of 22. She looked for a psychiatrist. That's when she hooks up. If you will. With Dr. Jennifer Tufts. Early October of 22. Initial appointment. October 20th of 22. Reports the adverse reaction. That she was having. To the selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors. November 16th. She goes to the South Shore Hospital emergency room. Because she was so depressed. And so maxed out from lack of sleep. And so unable to emote. She couldn't laugh. She couldn't cry. She couldn't have any feeling. She was a robot. She went to South Shore Hospital. She was referred and engaged with South Shore. Perinatal behavioral health. This was Patrick's mother. This is Patrick's mother. Mrs. Clancy. Who's a nurse. Well respected nurse. Wonderful woman. She works at the South Shore Hospital. Labor and delivery as well. She knows Lindsay. And she told Lindsay. You've got to go to this outfit here. Which was the South Shore Perinatal Behavioral Health. She didn't look them up because she wanted to get drugs. She was referred by her mother-in-law. Who's a nurse. She went to see these people. November 21st of 22. When she was engaged at the South Shore Perinatal Behavioral Health. She's going on one drug to the next to the next. The drugs that she was prescribed. You see here. And you'll hear evidence. That. First off. Jennifer Tufts. September 15th. 22. Sertraline. That's the Zoloft. Then Lorazepam. October 21st. Jennifer Tufts. Then Hydroxazine. Jennifer Tufts. Glorapazam. Jennifer Tufts. Buspirone. Jennifer Tufts. Lorazepam. Increased. Jennifer Tufts. Buspirone. Increased from one milligram to five milligrams. Jennifer Tufts. Trazodone. From another individual. Floxatine. 10 milligrams. From another person named Julie Paul. Julie Paul. Worked at the South Shore Hospital. When she went there. To go. Try to get some help from South Shore Perinatal Behavioral Health. More medications. Spiraling. Continuing on. Down. Pat lived this. And he will testify to what they went through. At this point. At the end of November. Around Thanksgiving. She's reporting disassociation and confusion. They put her on her MRI. This is around Thanksgiving. Things were so bad at this point. That her mother and father. Came up from Connecticut. And lived with them. To take care of the kids. To help. Because she was. Walking. Around. Around. Absolutely. A zombie. She would rock. On the sofa. Crying. Hysterically. Banging her head into the pillow of the sofa. Patrick will tell you what he observed with her. She dealt with her parents. Her parents were there to try to help. Is this someone that's faking. Because she doesn't want to be a mother anymore. The parents were there. Mother and father. Wonderful people. Mother's retired. Dad took pictures of high school kids for yearbooks. They did what they could. Coming into December. After Thanksgiving. And they went by the way. During the holidays. Down in Connecticut. At one point. To visit with the family. But December 4th. She calls a suicide hotline. Seeking help. December 5th. She's evaluated by what's known as the Aspire Crisis Team. You'll hear evidence about that. December 6th. The next day. They have an appointment with Nurse Jalada. Now Nurse Jalada. Comes into this. Action. Because again. Not looking for more doctors. Paul. Retired or left. Or went to another job. So all of a sudden. Nurse Paul. Who was treating her. And prescribing meds. Leaves. Here's Nurse Jalada. She's now going to be your person you deal with. That's all. She wasn't looking for some other doctors. To get additional medication. She now is dealing with Jalada. They have an appointment with Nurse Jalada. And Pat goes with her. Because he was so upset. And says to Jalada. You hear evidence. Do you think possibly that she's overmedicated? Do you think somebody screwed up? And she says it's possible. And then she puts her on more medication. She puts her on. Okay. December of 2022. You're going to see that Nurse Jalada. Who is now on this chart. Is in blue. Nurse Jalada. Puts her on quietepine. 25 milligrams. November 30th. December 6th. Diazepam. 5. December 7th. Diazepam. December 7th. Quietepine. December 9th. Diazepam. 5. December 13th. Diazepam. And then she goes back to Jennifer Tufts. Because they just couldn't handle dealing with Rebecca Jalada. Because she wanted to wean off the drugs. Jalada told her to stay the course. She ends up going through the December 19th. 21st. 22nd. Dealing with quietepine. 300 milligrams of quietepine. Now. What happens is. They then suggest that what she has to do. Is go to. Mass General Hospital. She goes to Mass General Hospital. At Mass General. They say. Well you can do like a day program. Or you can go to this fantastic program. Down in Rhode Island. Called Women and Infants Program. So she goes to Women and Infants Program. She goes down for a day. She sits there in a group. With other mothers. And they talk. And they look at her medication. And they say. You're going to see it in the medical records. We can't really help you. As postpartum. And that's what they specialize in. Because. You've got medications. That you're going to have to. Clear. Because the medications. Can be affecting you. She was there for a day. One day. They never said. Anything. You're not suffering from postpartum. Postpartum. Every one of these. Doctors and nurses. Knew that she was suffering from postpartum. And now it's turning into psychosis. Now as she goes through the period of time. In January 5. Alia Goodhart. From McLean Hospital. Puts on Trazodone. 50 milligrams. Lorazepam. One milligram. Leaving the hospital. She goes to that hospital. On New Year's Eve. She and Patrick decide. This is it. The two of them get in their car. Family takes care of the kids. She goes to the hospital. Now it's locked wards. She goes into the hospital. She's there for five days. Four days. During that period of time that she's there. She's in group. She doesn't see a doctor but once. There's no discussion of medications. Until the very end. You'll see the medical records. If you look at the medical records. You'll see. That her daughter's birthday was coming up. And she wanted to leave. Rather than the fifth. On the fourth. This is not a discharge against medical advice. They cleared it. They said yeah fine. You're okay. Good. Good luck. Go home. She went home. And she went to the birthday party. The government will have witnesses apparently. To show that she was able to socialize. Like Haikawaiu. At the trampoline. Where they had the birthday party. For Corbin. She's still living in a nightmare. During this period of time. January 9th. Back to Jennifer Tufts. Puts her on Diazepam. Jennifer Tufts kicks up the Trazodone. To 150 milligrams. January 13th. You've got Rebecca Jawada. Puts her on Diazepam. And by the way. When she was down at Rhode Island. And the nurse. Nurse and babies. Hospital. Another hospital. It was like a service. The people that were treating her. For that one day. Reached out. To Jawada. To find out. What's up with the medication. Jawada never called them back. You're going to hear evidence. And it's in the medical records. That when she and Patrick. Called Jawada. To say. I got to wean off this. She didn't want more drugs. She wanted off the drugs.
[01:19:26] Speaker ?: She wanted off the drugs.
[01:19:26] Speaker 6: So a lot of says. Stay the course. She's going on vacation. I'll see you in a week. Comes back in a week. You're going to see that. Now. Jennifer Tufts. Puts her on Diazepam. Two milligrams. On January 16th. Amitriptyline. 10 milligrams. January 16th. Diazepam and Diazepam. Between Tufts and Gelata. The last script is Diazepam. Two milligrams. January 23rd. During that period of time. You can see. That on December 20th. And 22nd. She was evaluated. At the woman's. Infants. Partial hospitalization program. In Rhode Island. December 30th. She returned to Mass General Hospital. Emergency Room. December 31st. That's after Mass General told her. To go to the hospital. You can go to McLean. New Year's Eve. December 20th of 22. They were admitted to McLean Hospital. For psychiatric treatment. January 6th of 23. It was post discharge. Follow up appointment. With Dr. Tufts. January 10th. 16th. And 23th. Appointment to Dr. Tufts. Dr. Tufts. Dr. Tufts. The day before the killings. Dr. Tufts. These are the medications. That she was on. That she had filled. That she took. That she didn't take. And apparently. According to the opening statement. By the government. Was manipulating the doctors. Not telling the doctors. She told them. That she was suicidal. She told them. That she had suicidal ideation. And in December. To his. And her. Ever. Dying. Regret. Told. Patrick. In the presence of her mother. That she was having. Psychosis thoughts. Of hurting. The children. This is a woman. That did not. Get. The medication. Did not get. The medical treatment. That she so deserved. This is a woman. That was suffering from. Psychosis at the time. That she went down. To that basement. She had no motive. She loved her children. She intended. To kill herself. She didn't fake that. Threw herself out the window. Most of the hospital. You're going to see. That when she's in the hospital. They said to her. Wanted. What do you call it? A DNR. Do not resuscitate. Absolutely. Did not want any DNR. Didn't want to be resuscitated. Wanted to die. To this day. Wants to die. That's. What we're dealing with. On this. Prosecution. So you're going to hear. From witnesses. It's going to be emotional. And. Thank you.
[01:22:28] Speaker 2: All right. Members of the jury. We're going to take. The morning recess. At this time. All right. I'm going to ask you to go out. Again. Don't discuss the case. We'll be back here. Probably. About 15-20 minutes. And we'll begin. With the Carmel's case. All right. So we'll be in recess. At this time.
[01:22:44] Speaker 1: Court. All rise. Juries. This way, please.
[01:23:08] Speaker 2: All right, council, we need to discuss anything at this time. So we'll be in recess for about 20 minutes. Thank you. Thank you.
[01:23:24] Speaker 4: Clear the courtroom, please. Thank you.
[01:23:27] Speaker 2: Council, are we ready for the jury?
[01:23:55] Speaker 7: Yes, Your Honor.
[01:23:56] Speaker ?: Yes, Your Honor.
[01:24:26] Speaker 1: Court, all rise. The jury is entered.
[01:25:15] Speaker 3: Your Honor, for the purpose of the record, we return back to the trial of Commonwealth versus Lindsey Clancy, all parties are present, including the defendant. All right.
[01:25:27] Speaker 2: Well, members of the jury, thank you for your patience with us. We're now going to begin the presentation of evidence. Commonwealth, we call your first witness, please.
[01:25:36] Speaker 7: Thank you, Your Honor. Commonwealth calls Patrick Clancy.
[01:25:41] Speaker ?: Good morning, sir. Good morning, sir. Can you stop right here? Raise your right hand to the clerk, please. Good morning, sir. I'm going to ask you to speak into that microphone.
[01:25:56] Speaker 1: You can be seated if you'd like, if you're more comfortable.
[01:26:04] Speaker 8: All right.
[01:26:05] Speaker ?: Commonwealth, please. Thank you, Your Honor. Good morning. Can you please state and spell your name for the record?
[01:26:05] Speaker 8: Yeah.
[01:26:06] Speaker ?: My name is Patrick Clancy.
[01:26:06] Speaker 8: I have a testimony. I have a testimony. I have a testimony here. I want you to get to the court. You adjourn. The matter pit now panning between the Commonwealth and the defendant. You'll be the truth. I'll hold you for nothing but the truth. I hope you got it. Thank you.
[01:26:16] Speaker ?: You may have a seat, sir. All right.
[01:26:18] Speaker 2: Good morning, sir. I'm going to ask you to speak into that microphone. You can be seated if you'd like, if you're more comfortable.
[01:26:26] Speaker ?: Okay. All right.
[01:26:28] Speaker 2: Commonwealth, please.
[01:26:29] Speaker 9: Thank you, Your Honor. Good morning. Can you please state and spell your name for the record?
[01:26:33] Speaker 10: Yeah. My name is Patrick Clancy. It's P-A-T-R-I-C-K-C-L-A-N-C-Y.
[01:26:38] Speaker 9: And what is your date of birth?
[01:26:40] Speaker 10: June 15th, 1988.
[01:26:42] Speaker 9: What city do you live in now? New York. And what do you do for a living? I work in tech.
[01:26:48] Speaker 10: How long have you worked in tech? 14 years.
[01:26:55] Speaker 9: And were you previously married to a person named Lindsey Clancy? Yes.
[01:27:01] Speaker 10: And you're divorced now.
[01:27:02] Speaker 9: Is that correct? Correct. Do you see that person in the courtroom today? Yes. Could you point to them and describe something they're wearing?
[01:27:09] Speaker 2: She's wearing a pink shirt. Record will reflect the identification of the defendant.
[01:27:15] Speaker 9: Thank you. Where did you meet the defendant?
[01:27:18] Speaker 10: In South Boston.
[01:27:21] Speaker 9: And when was that?
[01:27:23] Speaker 10: I think it was May 2013.
[01:27:28] Speaker 9: And how did you meet her?
[01:27:30] Speaker 10: Through my cousin.
[01:27:32] Speaker 9: And would it be accurate to state that your cousin had been college roommates of the defendant?
[01:27:38] Speaker 10: Yes.
[01:27:39] Speaker 9: And at some point in time did you start dating? Yes. And around what time was that? July 2013.
[01:27:47] Speaker 10: Did you eventually move in together?
[01:27:51] Speaker 9: Yes. Do you remember when that was?
[01:27:54] Speaker 10: September 2015.
[01:27:56] Speaker 9: And where did you live? In Quincy.
[01:27:59] Speaker 10: In Quincy.
[01:28:00] Speaker 9: How long did you live in Quincy?
[01:28:04] Speaker 10: One year.
[01:28:05] Speaker 9: And where did you go after that?
[01:28:07] Speaker 10: We bought a house in Weymouth.
[01:28:09] Speaker 9: And how long did you live in Weymouth?
[01:28:12] Speaker 10: Two years.
[01:28:13] Speaker 9: Did you eventually get married? Yes. And when was that?
[01:28:18] Speaker 10: December 2016.
[01:28:19] Speaker 9: And was that while you were living in Weymouth?
[01:28:24] Speaker 10: Yes.
[01:28:25] Speaker 9: Did you have your first child when you were living in Weymouth? Yes. And what was her name?
[01:28:31] Speaker 10: Cora.
[01:28:32] Speaker 9: And what was her date of birth?
[01:28:34] Speaker 10: December 24th, 2017.
[01:28:39] Speaker 9: Prior to getting married, did the defendant ever tell you she had taken psychiatric medication while in nursing school?
[01:28:49] Speaker 10: Not that I recall.
[01:28:54] Speaker 9: After having Cora, did the three of you move somewhere else?
[01:28:58] Speaker 10: Yeah, we moved to Duxbury.
[01:29:00] Speaker 9: And what was your address in Duxbury?
[01:29:02] Speaker 10: 47 Summer Street.
[01:29:04] Speaker 9: And do you recall when you moved there?
[01:29:08] Speaker 10: I believe it was July 2018.
[01:29:11] Speaker 9: And where were you working at that time?
[01:29:15] Speaker 10: I was working for a startup called Automation Anywhere.
[01:29:19] Speaker 9: At some point in time, did you start working for Microsoft? Yes. And when was that?
[01:29:25] Speaker 10: May 2020.
[01:29:28] Speaker 9: And when you worked for Microsoft, did you go to an office or did you work from home?
[01:29:33] Speaker 10: I worked from home.
[01:29:34] Speaker 9: And was that from 2020 onward that you worked from home?
[01:29:39] Speaker 10: No, I started working from home in 2018. 2018.
[01:29:42] Speaker 9: Okay. So from 2018 up until, let's say 2023, you were working from home, is that correct? Yes. And did you have an office in your home which you worked out of?
[01:29:57] Speaker 10: Eventually, yeah.
[01:29:58] Speaker 9: And where was that located?
[01:30:00] Speaker 10: In the basement.
[01:30:01] Speaker 9: And was that a finished basement?
[01:30:03] Speaker 10: Yes.
[01:30:04] Speaker 9: Going back to after Cora was born, do you recall the defendant having any physical issues after the birth? Yeah. And what were those?
[01:30:20] Speaker 10: I think there was a lot of tearing and she bled a lot.
[01:30:26] Speaker 9: Did it take her a while to recover physically?
[01:30:29] Speaker 10: I would say so, yeah.
[01:30:31] Speaker 9: Did she have maternity leave at that time?
[01:30:36] Speaker ?: Yes.
[01:30:37] Speaker 9: Where was she working?
[01:30:40] Speaker 10: Mass General Hospital.
[01:30:42] Speaker 9: And what was she doing there?
[01:30:43] Speaker 10: She's a labor and delivery nurse.
[01:30:45] Speaker 9: At that point in time when she had Cora in 2017, how long had she been a nurse?
[01:30:54] Speaker 10: Three years, maybe.
[01:30:57] Speaker 9: And do you recall how long her maternity leave was with Cora?
[01:31:04] Speaker 10: That was the shortest of the three. I want to say it was 10 or 11 weeks.
[01:31:11] Speaker 9: And did you have paternity leave at that time?
[01:31:14] Speaker 10: Yeah, I had two weeks. Two weeks, okay.
[01:31:18] Speaker 9: When you went back after the two weeks, back to work in the home, were there any issues that you noticed the defendant having?
[01:31:30] Speaker 10: Yeah, I'm sorry. I just want to correct an earlier statement. I was working for Pegasystems when Cora was born.
[01:31:36] Speaker 9: Okay. And then eventually you worked for Microsoft?
[01:31:39] Speaker 10: Yeah.
[01:31:40] Speaker 9: Okay. And so after the two weeks of your paternity leave, the defendant was still on maternity leave, correct? Yes.
[01:31:47] Speaker 10: Okay.
[01:31:48] Speaker 9: And did she have to take any psychiatric medications at that time? Not that I know of.
[01:31:54] Speaker 10: She had a lot of anxiety.
[01:31:57] Speaker 9: Okay. So you're saying that she had some anxiety at that time, is that correct? Yeah. How did that manifest? Or how did you know that?
[01:32:05] Speaker 10: Um, she just really struggled with the date of going back to work. So.
[01:32:10] Speaker 9: So immediately after having Cora as she healed physically, um, what was her mood like when you're both on leave? It was great.
[01:32:20] Speaker 10: It was good. Good. Okay. I mean, relatively.
[01:32:24] Speaker 9: Yeah. And so did the anxiety start as it became closer in time to when she had to go back to work?
[01:32:30] Speaker 10: Yes.
[01:32:31] Speaker 9: How many shifts was she working at that time?
[01:32:34] Speaker 10: Uh, I, before Cora was born, I, she was working at least 40 hours, maybe more. Um, after she went back to work, it was, I think initially just one.
[01:32:48] Speaker 9: One shift? Yeah. And, um, was that a 12 hour shift?
[01:32:52] Speaker 10: It was per diem. Per diem. And then she eventually did two shifts. Okay. I think it was 20 weeks.
[01:32:58] Speaker 9: After 20 weeks, she moved to two shifts. I'm sorry.
[01:33:02] Speaker 10: Uh, it was, uh, 20 hours a week. 20 hours a week.
[01:33:06] Speaker 9: Okay. Um, and so from the time, um, she worked her way back up to 20 hours a week at work until she had your next child, did it remain that 20 hours per week that she worked? Pretty much.
[01:33:19] Speaker 10: Yeah.
[01:33:20] Speaker ?: Okay.
[01:33:21] Speaker 9: And did you have any assistance in the home during that time after she went back to work? A nanny or a babysitter?
[01:33:29] Speaker 10: Um, yeah, we had babysitters. We had a, um, uh, a babysitter who came probably 12 hours a week.
[01:33:37] Speaker 9: And did that typically happen, um, after your wife had a shift that the nanny or the babysitter would be there?
[01:33:44] Speaker 10: Yeah. So she could sleep.
[01:33:46] Speaker 9: Okay. Did the defendant work overnights?
[01:33:48] Speaker 10: Yeah.
[01:33:49] Speaker 9: And how long did you have, um, that nanny or babysitter for?
[01:33:56] Speaker 10: Uh, several years.
[01:33:58] Speaker 9: Do you remember her name?
[01:34:00] Speaker 10: We called her Miss Jen.
[01:34:02] Speaker 9: Miss Jen. Do you remember her last name?
[01:34:04] Speaker 10: Shanahan.
[01:34:05] Speaker 9: And then you had a second child. Is that correct? Yes.
[01:34:10] Speaker 10: And what was their name?
[01:34:11] Speaker 9: Dawson. And what was Dawson's date of birth?
[01:34:15] Speaker 10: September 30th, 2019.
[01:34:18] Speaker 9: And, um, was, um, Miss Jen still helping out in the home at that time?
[01:34:23] Speaker 10: Yeah.
[01:34:24] Speaker 9: And what was Dawson's delivery like?
[01:34:27] Speaker 10: Um, pretty traumatic. How so? Um, he was, um, in a, uh, I think a breach position. So, um, he came out in a, I guess, I don't know much about it, but not an ideal way. And, um, it caused, uh, just significant bruising and tearing.
[01:34:48] Speaker 9: So again, did the defendant with this second pregnancy have, um, some pain and difficulty physically healing from the birth?
[01:34:56] Speaker 10: Yeah, much more so than Cora.
[01:34:58] Speaker ?: Okay.
[01:34:59] Speaker 9: And was she on maternity leave at that time?
[01:35:03] Speaker 10: Yes.
[01:35:04] Speaker 9: How many weeks leave did she have at that time?
[01:35:06] Speaker 10: I don't recall, but I, I think it was more than the, you know, traditional 12. I want to say it was 13 or 14, maybe more.
[01:35:28] Speaker ?: Page 13. If I may approach. You may. You don't have to keep telling me the pages. That's okay. Okay. Okay.
[01:35:35] Speaker 6: I could have you look at page 13 and just, um, read to yourselves on 6th through 10th and then just look up when you're finished.
[01:35:47] Speaker 9: Okay.
[01:35:48] Speaker ?: Thank you.
[01:35:48] Speaker 9: Does that refresh your memory as to how much maternity leave, uh, the defendant had after Dawson's birth?
[01:36:00] Speaker ?: Yeah. And what was it? 18. 18. 18 weeks? Mm-hmm. Is that correct?
[01:36:07] Speaker 7: I believe so. Okay.
[01:36:09] Speaker 9: And, you know, after dealing with the physical pain of birth and, and, and starting to heal, um, how was her demeanor and, um, experience during that, that maternity leave? Um, I think it was fine at first. Um, I think it was fine at first. Um, I think it was fine at first.
[01:36:34] Speaker 10: Um, but it was fine at first. Um, it was always when she had to go back to work. That's when she struggled. Okay.
[01:36:43] Speaker 9: So that was a pattern that you saw after the baby maternity leave was good, real good. And then she'd struggle going back to work.
[01:36:50] Speaker 10: She just had a really hard time being separated from them. Okay.
[01:36:54] Speaker 9: What was the plan for how many shifts she would work or how many hours she would work after Dawson was born?
[01:37:02] Speaker 10: I believe it was the same thing. Okay.
[01:37:06] Speaker 9: And in terms of, um, Ms. Shanahan, the babysitter, um, you had mentioned before that she was there about 12 hours a week. Did that stay consistent after Dawson's birth or was it more or less?
[01:37:22] Speaker 10: Probably consistent.
[01:37:24] Speaker 9: After Dawson's birth, are you, did the defendant ever tell you whether she was on any psychiatric medication after Dawson's birth?
[01:37:37] Speaker 10: No.
[01:37:38] Speaker 9: Did she seek treatment, um, or tell you she sought treatment after Dawson's birth? Yeah.
[01:37:44] Speaker 10: She, um, got a therapist for a short period of time, but it didn't, didn't last very long.
[01:37:49] Speaker 9: Did she tell you that at the time or later?
[01:37:52] Speaker 10: At the time. Okay.
[01:37:54] Speaker 9: And did she have any psychiatric hospitalizations or commitments at that time? No. Yeah. What about after Cora's birth? Any psychiatric hospitalizations or treatments? No. Was there a time after Dawson's birth where, um, she wanted to declutter your garage?
[01:38:18] Speaker 10: Um, maybe at some point.
[01:38:21] Speaker 9: Okay. And did you assist her with that?
[01:38:24] Speaker 10: Yeah.
[01:38:25] Speaker 9: Okay. And, um, how was that done?
[01:38:27] Speaker 10: Uh, we had a, a lot of stuff to throw away. And, uh, I think we sold some stuff on Facebook marketplace. We just had a lot of stuff.
[01:38:36] Speaker 9: So did the two of you go through the items in the garage and order, organize it into what you would keep, what you would throw away and what you would sell?
[01:38:44] Speaker 10: Yes.
[01:38:45] Speaker 9: Okay. And it was very organized. I would say so.
[01:38:48] Speaker 10: Yeah. Okay.
[01:38:50] Speaker 9: And you finished the project. Is that correct?
[01:38:54] Speaker 10: It was always ongoing.
[01:38:58] Speaker 9: Now, um, eventually you had your third child, correct? Yeah. And what was, what was their name? Callan. And what was his date of birth?
[01:39:09] Speaker 10: May 26th, um, 2022.
[01:39:13] Speaker 9: Can you describe, um, that delivery for us?
[01:39:18] Speaker 10: Uh, it was great. From what I could tell, it was relatively quick. It was during the day. Um, we were both smiling after, and, um, I don't think there is as much physical trauma.
[01:39:34] Speaker 9: Nothing compared to what happened with Cora or Dawson. Is that correct?
[01:39:38] Speaker 10: Correct.
[01:39:39] Speaker 9: Um, did, did, um, the defendant have maternity leave after Callan's birth? Yeah. And how long was that leave?
[01:39:49] Speaker 10: She never went back.
[01:39:51] Speaker 9: How long was it planned for initially?
[01:39:54] Speaker 10: I want to say 18 weeks. Okay.
[01:39:57] Speaker 9: And were you on paternity leave as well?
[01:40:00] Speaker 10: Yes.
[01:40:01] Speaker 9: And how long was your paternity leave?
[01:40:03] Speaker 10: 12 weeks.
[01:40:04] Speaker 9: So with Callan being born on May 26th, 2022, um, the two of you were home, um, with the children that summer on leave. Is that correct? Yeah. What was family life, family life like during that time period, those summer months? It was great.
[01:40:27] Speaker 10: We had a lot of time off. Um, I was able to spend a lot of time with, uh, I spent a lot of time with Cora and Dawson. So I would, I would take them around, you know, the playgrounds and birthday parties and stuff like that.
[01:40:42] Speaker 9: Okay. And what would Lindsay be doing while you were, um, with Cora and Dawson?
[01:40:46] Speaker 10: Sometimes she'd come with us with Callan, but oftentimes we did kind of like a divide and conquer. So she'd be home with Callan and I'd be out with the older kids.
[01:40:56] Speaker 9: And what types of family activities did, um, did you all do during those summer months?
[01:41:01] Speaker 10: Um, we went on a couple of vacations. We went to the beach. Um, we went out on our boat and, um, went to friends' houses.
[01:41:11] Speaker 9: During those, those months, um, when you're going to the beach and out on the boat and, and visiting with friends, um, were there any signs of anxiety in the defendant during those months?
[01:41:24] Speaker 10: Um, I would say starting in September. Yes. But in the previous months, uh, not so much.
[01:41:31] Speaker 9: Okay. When had she been scheduled to go back to work?
[01:41:34] Speaker 10: I don't remember the exact date, but I think it was October.
[01:41:38] Speaker 9: Okay. So again, it was that pattern of, as it became closer in time to go back to work. Yeah. Yeah.
[01:41:44] Speaker 10: She started to struggle.
[01:41:45] Speaker ?: Yeah.
[01:41:46] Speaker 9: During the times when, um, she would get anxious, when it was time to go back to work and she would start being anxious, did you ever have any difficulty understanding her when she spoke? No. And, um, did, did she ever exhibit any behavior, um, that made you concerned enough to call a doctor or want to, um, commit her, commit her?
[01:42:18] Speaker 10: No.
[01:42:19] Speaker 9: When she was, um, showing this anxiety, what, what were you seeing in her behavior?
[01:42:27] Speaker 10: Um, just a lot of stress. Um, you know, it was, there were days where she had all three kids and, you know, there's different nap schedules and different needs. So it was just really stressful. Okay.
[01:42:41] Speaker 9: Um, and you're still, um, working in the, the basement office at this point after Callan's born, correct?
[01:42:51] Speaker 10: I went back to work late August. Okay.
[01:42:55] Speaker 9: And when you work downstairs, um, how often would you come upstairs during the day?
[01:43:00] Speaker 10: All the time for lunch, um, or just to say hi.
[01:43:04] Speaker 9: Okay. Um, were there times when, um, Lindsay would ask you to hold the baby in the office while she was doing something? I think so.
[01:43:14] Speaker 10: Yeah. Okay.
[01:43:16] Speaker 9: And, um, were there times when, um, you would watch one, one or more of the children while she took another to a doctor's appointment or to an errand or something like that? Yeah.
[01:43:26] Speaker 10: If it, if it worked out with a schedule. Yeah.
[01:43:29] Speaker ?: Okay.
[01:43:30] Speaker 9: Um, what was the plan in terms of how many shifts or hours she was going to work after Callan?
[01:43:41] Speaker 10: Um, I believe the plan was two shifts per week, but, um, there's a lot of flexibility. She could have done really anything.
[01:43:51] Speaker 9: Do you recall, um, saying previously that the, that you were going to start off with one shift and hopefully move to two? I could imagine.
[01:43:58] Speaker 10: Yeah. Okay.
[01:44:00] Speaker 9: And, um, you said there was some options, correct? What, what were those options if that didn't work out?
[01:44:07] Speaker 10: Um, well, I always put money aside in basically our own maternity account, just so that if, um, she needed more flexibility, we, we planned for that. So.
[01:44:19] Speaker 9: So if she needed more time off, more than what her work would provide for her, you were financially secure enough to afford that at this time? Yes. During this time, um, in the fall of 2022, were Cora and Dawson attending preschool?
[01:44:41] Speaker 10: Yes.
[01:44:42] Speaker 9: And where was that?
[01:44:43] Speaker 10: Learning Sprouts.
[01:44:44] Speaker 9: Learning Sprouts. And where is Learning Sprouts located?
[01:44:47] Speaker 10: Duxbury.
[01:44:48] Speaker 9: How often were they attending Learning Sprouts?
[01:44:53] Speaker 10: Uh, full days, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and a half day on Thursday.
[01:44:58] Speaker 9: And what was a full day? What hours?
[01:45:01] Speaker 10: I think it was 9:00 to 4:00.
[01:45:03] Speaker 9: 9:00 AM to 4:00 PM? I think so. Yeah. And what was a half day?
[01:45:07] Speaker 10: Um, like 9:00 to 12:30. I think they might've had some days where they started early. I, I can't remember. Okay.
[01:45:15] Speaker 9: But basically all day, um, you know, working hours all day, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and then the mornings on Thursday. Is that right? Right. And who would do, um, drop offs for school? We both would. And what about pickups? Both of us. Together or take turns?
[01:45:37] Speaker 10: Usually we would take turns.
[01:45:40] Speaker 9: Now, at some point in time, um, after Callan was born, did you hire a nanny?
[01:45:47] Speaker 10: Yes.
[01:45:48] Speaker 9: And when was that?
[01:45:50] Speaker 10: Um, I think it was in August or September.
[01:45:57] Speaker 9: Of 2022? Yeah. And, um, who was that nanny?
[01:46:02] Speaker 10: Um, Laney. I don't remember her last name.
[01:46:07] Speaker 9: Does Elaine Rossi sound familiar? Yeah.
[01:46:09] Speaker 10: Okay.
[01:46:10] Speaker 9: And, um, do you recall how many days per week Elaine was going to work when you hired her?
[01:46:19] Speaker 10: I think it was 12 hours. 12 hours.
[01:46:22] Speaker 9: But it wouldn't be 12 hours altogether. It would be spread out over the week. Is that right?
[01:46:27] Speaker 10: Correct.
[01:46:28] Speaker ?: Okay.
[01:46:29] Speaker 9: And, um, who was she hired to take care of?
[01:46:34] Speaker 10: Everyone. Um, but mainly it was going to be Callan. Okay.
[01:46:39] Speaker 9: Because Cora and Dawson would be at school? For the most part, yeah. And what was the plan for when Elaine would work? Was it that same type of, um, after Lindsay worked shifts or something different? Yeah.
[01:46:55] Speaker 10: The goal was after Lindsay would work. I mean, she never went back to work, but, um, I think we wanted to get her just, um, like, oriented with, with our house and the kids. So we had her start before and, and then, uh, she was amazing. She was an amazing caregiver, but eventually we, um, decided to let her go because, um, Lindsay was home anyways. Okay.
[01:47:26] Speaker 9: So when you initially hired her in August or September, um, you said Lindsay was going back to work in October. So is that what you're talking about? That give her that month or so, give Elaine that month or so to get situated and acclimated to the house?
[01:47:40] Speaker 10: Yeah.
[01:47:41] Speaker 9: Okay. Have the kids get used to her.
[01:47:43] Speaker 10: Is that right?
[01:47:44] Speaker ?: Yep.
[01:47:45] Speaker 9: Okay. Did she also, Elaine, did she also do some cleaning, laundry and food prep?
[01:47:50] Speaker 10: Yeah. Yeah.
[01:47:52] Speaker ?: She was amazing.
[01:47:53] Speaker 9: Now, during this timeframe, again, in the end of summer, fall period of 2022, what types of activities were Cora and Dawson doing?
[01:48:05] Speaker ?: Um, gymnastics.
[01:48:06] Speaker 10: Um, all right. Are you talking about organized activities or just in general?
[01:48:08] Speaker ?: Organized.
[01:48:09] Speaker 10: I only remember gymnastics. Did they both do the gymnastics?
[01:48:11] Speaker ?: Yeah. And then were they also participating?
[01:48:13] Speaker 10: Maybe not in organized situations, but in swimming, soccer, skiing, things like that. Yeah.
[01:48:16] Speaker 9: They were doing swimming.
[01:48:17] Speaker 10: Um, and yeah, Cora and Dawson did skiing.
[01:48:18] Speaker ?: Uh, yeah.
[01:48:19] Speaker 10: Cora started doing soccer.
[01:48:20] Speaker 9: She didn't really like it, but did a little bit. And who took them skiing? I did. Okay. And as in terms of the swimming, where would you do that? Um, we did it at, uh, Goldfish in Rockland, I think. And then, um, Lindsay took them somewhere.
[01:48:29] Speaker 10: And I think Plymouth. I don't remember where it was. I don't remember where it was. So you would each take them swimming at various times? Yeah. Yeah. Um, and yeah, Cora and Dawson did skiing. Uh, yeah.
[01:48:38] Speaker 9: Cora started doing soccer. She didn't really like it, but did a little bit.
[01:48:40] Speaker 10: And who took them skiing?
[01:48:41] Speaker 9: I did. Okay. And as in terms of the swimming, where would you do that?
[01:48:46] Speaker 10: Um, we did it at, uh, Goldfish in Rockland, I think. And then, um, Lindsay took them somewhere and I think Plymouth. I don't remember where it was.
[01:48:57] Speaker 9: So you would each take them swimming at various times? Yeah.
[01:49:01] Speaker 10: Okay.
[01:49:02] Speaker 9: Um, did you also do some swimming at the, uh, Kingsbury club?
[01:49:05] Speaker 10: Yes.
[01:49:06] Speaker 9: And what is the Kingsbury club?
[01:49:08] Speaker 10: It's like a gym with a pool and, um, they had childcare. So sometimes they would hang out in the kid's room and go work out.
[01:49:17] Speaker 9: And is that in Duxbury?
[01:49:19] Speaker 10: Uh, it's on the Kingston Duxbury line. I'm not, I'm not entirely sure, but yeah. Okay.
[01:49:25] Speaker 9: And so you could drop the kids off at the, the daycare portion and go work out or swim or something like that. Yeah.
[01:49:31] Speaker 10: Or we could go with them and go swimming. Okay. Did Lindsay work out?
[01:49:34] Speaker ?: Yes.
[01:49:35] Speaker 9: She was very health conscious. I think so. And, uh, were you aware that she had been an athlete in both high school and college? Yes. Do you recall what she did? Competitive cheerleading. Now, when you were together, what type of exercise would she do or did she prefer?
[01:50:00] Speaker 10: Um, she did a lot of running. She did the Peloton and she did, um, it was like some program called Beachbody, I think.
[01:50:09] Speaker 9: Do you recall when she started Beachbody?
[01:50:13] Speaker 10: Um, maybe in the spring of 2022, I'm not sure.
[01:50:18] Speaker 9: So right before having Callan, would that be accurate?
[01:50:22] Speaker 10: Probably. Yeah.
[01:50:24] Speaker ?: Um, I think that's a good question. I think that's a good question. I think that's a good question. I think that's a good question. I think that's a good question. I think that's a good question. I think that's a good question. I think that's a good question.
[01:50:32] Speaker 9: I think that's a good question. I think that's a good question. And you said that was in August, correct?
[01:50:37] Speaker 10: Yes.
[01:50:38] Speaker 9: What was the defendant's demeanor when you returned to work?
[01:50:43] Speaker 10: Um, increased anxiety and, um, and definitely, you know, stressed out.
[01:50:52] Speaker 9: Do you recall describing her as slightly stressed but in good spirits?
[01:50:57] Speaker 10: Um, yeah.
[01:51:00] Speaker 9: And when she was stressed out, when she was showing some anxiety, how did that manifest?
[01:51:07] Speaker 10: Um, I don't really know how to describe it. I guess it's just any way you can tell that somebody's stressed out. And, um, I don't know. She would say, you know, I'm not looking forward to going back to work. I remember once she said, it's just so unnatural to be separated from your newborn. Yeah. Stuff like that.
[01:51:31] Speaker 9: So she didn't want to go back to work? Is that what you're saying?
[01:51:34] Speaker 10: I think she did. Um, it was just a really difficult transition for her. Yeah.
[01:51:42] Speaker 9: And, um, do you recall attending a wedding on September 17th, 2022?
[01:51:48] Speaker 10: Yeah.
[01:51:49] Speaker 9: And where was that wedding?
[01:51:50] Speaker 10: New Hampshire.
[01:51:51] Speaker 9: Was it just you and Lindsay that went or did the whole family go?
[01:51:54] Speaker 10: We brought Kellen.
[01:51:56] Speaker 9: And when you were at that wedding, do you recall having a conversation with Lindsay, um, about medication? Yes. What did she say to you?
[01:52:07] Speaker 10: Um, we were walking downtown and she said, I think I'm going to start taking Zoloft.
[01:52:13] Speaker 9: And did she tell you why she wanted to start taking Zoloft?
[01:52:16] Speaker 10: She said, I think it's really going to help with my anxiety. Um, and with going back to work.
[01:52:22] Speaker 9: And did she tell you how she was going to go about getting Zoloft?
[01:52:27] Speaker 10: Yeah, I, I, um, I asked her, how are you going to get Zoloft? It's a prescription. And she said, you know, usually just ask the doctor and they'll give it to you.
[01:52:40] Speaker 9: And did she tell you, um, that she was going to see a psychiatrist?
[01:52:45] Speaker 10: Yeah, I believe so.
[01:52:47] Speaker 9: And, um, when she, when she did that, did she tell you, um, who she was going to see? No.
[01:52:54] Speaker ?: Okay.
[01:52:54] Speaker 9: Did you eventually learn the name of the person who she went to see?
[01:52:58] Speaker 10: Months later. Yeah.
[01:53:00] Speaker ?: Okay.
[01:53:00] Speaker 9: And who was that?
[01:53:02] Speaker 10: Uh, Jennifer Tufts. Okay.
[01:53:04] Speaker 9: And do you, did Lindsay tell you when she started seeing Dr. Jennifer Tufts?
[01:53:10] Speaker 10: No.
[01:53:12] Speaker 9: Did you learn or strike that? Did Lindsay tell you when she received the medication and when she started it?
[01:53:20] Speaker 10: No. I mean, I should correct that. It's not exactly.
[01:53:28] Speaker 9: Um, well, let me just ask a question first. Sure. Um, when, did you have a conversation with Lindsay about the medication she was on?
[01:53:38] Speaker 10: Eventually. Yeah.
[01:53:40] Speaker 9: But I didn't know the start date. Okay. And so when did this conversation take place? This eventual conversation?
[01:53:47] Speaker 10: Probably the end of October. Okay.
[01:53:50] Speaker 9: And at that point, what did Lindsay tell you about the medication and how she was taking it?
[01:53:56] Speaker 10: Um, I don't remember exactly, but I learned that she was taking the Zoloft and, um, I don't remember really too much about it after that. Um, she was just taking it and, you know, we were seeing how it went.
[01:54:15] Speaker 9: And did you notice any changes in her physically during that timeframe that she was on it and you, you weren't aware she was on it?
[01:54:26] Speaker ?: Um, yeah.
[01:54:28] Speaker 10: Uh, she wasn't really improving.
[01:54:29] Speaker 9: She just kind of seems, um, to be gradually becoming more, more in like a depressed state. Um, and how was that manifesting? What were you noticing? It was just small things. Um, it was just small things. Um, it was just small things. Um, it was just small things.
[01:54:39] Speaker 10: Um, it was just small things. Um, it was just small things. Um, it was just small things. Um, it was just small things. Um, it was just small things. Um, it was just small things. Um, it was just small things. Um, it was just small things.
[01:54:49] Speaker 9: Um, it was just small things. Um, it was just small things. Um, it was just small things.
[01:54:54] Speaker 10: Um, it was just small things. Um, it was just small things. Um, I was planning a trip with Cora to San Francisco and she was nervous about us going. And, um, I remember we went to a Halloween event and, um, just leading up to it. I remember she was, it just kind of seemed like she didn't want to go for some reason. Okay.
[01:55:17] Speaker 9: Um, now do you recall learning that, um, she had actually been able to go for some reason? Okay. Do you recall learning that, um, she had actually obtained the prescription the day before she told you she was going to ask for the prescription?
[01:55:30] Speaker 10: I did later learn that. Yeah.
[01:55:32] Speaker 9: Okay. So she's telling you at the wedding that she, um, is going to ask to take this medication and going to see a psychiatrist to get on that medication, but she actually already had the prescription. Is that correct?
[01:55:43] Speaker 10: Correct. I don't think she started taking it yet, but she already had it.
[01:55:46] Speaker ?: Okay.
[01:55:47] Speaker 9: Um, and, um, did, did Lindsay tell you how long she took the medication for?
[01:56:02] Speaker 10: Uh, she may have, um, I don't remember the exact timeframe. I just remember she took it for a period of time and then her sleep started to suffer. So she stopped taking it.
[01:56:15] Speaker 9: And did she tell you, um, whether or not she, um, spoke to her provider, her doctor about the troubles she was having? I believe so.
[01:56:25] Speaker 10: Yeah. Okay.
[01:56:27] Speaker 9: And, um, did she tell you, did Lindsay tell you that she was advised to double the dose of the Zoloft? She may have. I don't remember.
[01:56:36] Speaker 10: Page 31. You could look at lines 20 to 22 and then just look up when you're finished.
[01:56:38] Speaker ?: Sure. Okay.
[01:56:40] Speaker 9: Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
[01:56:43] Speaker ?: Apparently she did. Yeah.
[01:56:44] Speaker 9: And so did Lindsay tell you that she was supposed to double the dose?
[01:57:03] Speaker 10: I guess she did. Yeah.
[01:57:06] Speaker 9: Did you notice any changes in her sleep during that time when she was on the medication, but you weren't aware she was on it?
[01:57:27] Speaker 10: Um, eventually. Yeah. When was that? I don't remember the exact dates. Um, but she just, you know, one night she said, um, do you mind? She's, she started by saying, I'm not mad or anything, but do you mind sleeping in the basement? Um, and letting me just sleep in our room with Callan. And then you can take the monitors down in the basement. And if, if Cora and Dawson get up, you can get up with them. Um, she said, I've just been having a lot of trouble sleeping. And, um, I'm hoping that like, if there's less in and out, then, uh, there'll be less disruption.
[01:58:06] Speaker 9: Okay. Had you noticed prior to her telling you this, that she was up a lot or having trouble sleeping, like physically seeing her awake?
[01:58:14] Speaker 10: No, not that I recall.
[01:58:16] Speaker 9: And did you in fact start sleeping in the basement for a period of time?
[01:58:19] Speaker 10: I think I did it for like two nights and then she actually went down in the basement. Okay.
[01:58:24] Speaker 9: So then you went back up to your bedroom to sleep. Is that correct? Yeah. And how long did she, did Lindsay sleep in the basement for after that?
[01:58:32] Speaker 10: Uh, maybe a couple of weeks.
[01:58:35] Speaker 9: And so during that timeframe, was she telling you that she was still having trouble sleeping?
[01:58:40] Speaker 10: Yes.
[01:58:41] Speaker 9: But you weren't actually down there watching her sleep. You're getting this information from her, correct? Correct. Were you aware, um, that out of the Zoloft prescription she was given, she only took seven pills?
[01:59:01] Speaker 10: No.
[01:59:08] Speaker 9: After you had the conversation with Lindsay where she said she was going to double the dose of Zoloft, did you notice any difference in her demeanor or behavior?
[01:59:18] Speaker 10: I would say yes. Um, I don't know if I connected it with the doubling of her Zoloft, but, um, over that period of time, she always, she just kept getting worse and worse.
[01:59:31] Speaker 9: And what period of time was that? What month are we in?
[01:59:33] Speaker 10: Mid-October to the end of December. Okay.
[01:59:37] Speaker 9: So she got the prescription in September, started taking it in October, took seven pills, but was having difficulty in December. Is that what you're saying? Yes.
[01:59:49] Speaker ?: From this medication?
[01:59:49] Speaker 9: Yep.
[01:59:50] Speaker 10: Well, I don't know which medication it was from, but yeah. Okay.
[01:59:57] Speaker 9: At some point in time, did she, Lindsay, switch providers? Yes. And why did she do that?
[02:00:04] Speaker 10: Uh, because the, whatever she was doing with Jennifer Tufts, it, it wasn't working. She was just, she was only getting worse. And, um, she, uh, thought that it would be better if she worked with, I guess, more of like a perinatal psychiatrist.
[02:00:22] Speaker 9: And did she get a referral or a recommendation of where to go? I think so, yeah. Do you know who gave her that recommendation?
[02:00:30] Speaker 10: It might've been my mother.
[02:00:32] Speaker 9: And your mother's a nurse at South Shore Hospital, correct?
[02:00:34] Speaker 10: Yeah.
[02:00:35] Speaker 9: Um, does she also do labor and delivery work?
[02:00:37] Speaker 10: Yes.
[02:00:38] Speaker 9: Okay. And so, um, do you know which provider or which office is she recommended?
[02:00:45] Speaker ?: Um, yeah.
[02:00:46] Speaker 10: Her name is Julie Paul.
[02:00:48] Speaker 9: And was she at the South Shore Perinatal Clinic? Something like that.
[02:00:52] Speaker 10: Yeah.
[02:00:53] Speaker 9: Okay. And do you know when that was?
[02:00:56] Speaker 10: I don't know the dates on that.
[02:01:03] Speaker 9: Do you recall, um, saying previously that it was, um, towards the end of November? Yeah.
[02:01:09] Speaker 10: That sounds, that sounds accurate. Yeah.
[02:01:12] Speaker 9: Okay. And you said she initially saw someone named Julie Paul. Is that correct?
[02:01:19] Speaker 10: Correct.
[02:01:20] Speaker 9: Okay. And, um, do you know how long she saw Julie Paul at that facility? I think it was only four or five days. And, um, were you aware that Julie Paul left that office? Yes. And do you know who Lindsay saw after Julie Paul? Rebecca Gelata. And was Rebecca Gelata a nurse practitioner? Yes.
[02:01:43] Speaker 10: Okay.
[02:01:44] Speaker 9: Were you aware that she also saw a licensed, um, social worker therapist named Leticia Dukes while she was at the South Shore Perinatal Clinic? Um, I, I don't recall Leticia Dukes, but it's possible. So, Lindsay never told you that she had therapy sessions with a person named Leticia Dukes during that timeframe?
[02:02:08] Speaker 10: I don't remember any therapy sessions, no. Okay. Okay.
[02:02:12] Speaker 9: After switching to, um, Julie Paul and then Rebecca Gelata, um, did Lindsay start coming home with different prescription bottles? Yes.
[02:02:27] Speaker 10: Okay.
[02:02:28] Speaker ?: Okay.
[02:02:29] Speaker 9: And were, um, some of these medications, um, that she came home with, were some of them during the time she was with Dr. Tufts?
[02:02:37] Speaker 10: I think some of them were, yep.
[02:02:40] Speaker 9: And some of them were while she was with, um, Julie Paul. Is that correct?
[02:02:44] Speaker 10: Correct.
[02:02:45] Speaker 9: And then some while she was with, um, nurse practitioner Gelata. Is that correct?
[02:02:49] Speaker 10: Yes.
[02:02:50] Speaker 9: Okay. And would it be accurate to state that, um, you provided the district attorney's office, um, with a printout, um, from CVS Pharmacy of all the prescriptions that were filled for Lindsay, um, uh, from September through January, September, 2022 through January of 2023?
[02:03:21] Speaker 10: Yes.
[02:03:22] Speaker ?: Any objection? No, of course not. Sure.
[02:03:25] Speaker 2: Yeah. In members of the jury, one of the things I forgot to tell you is anything that's entered as an exhibit, uh, you'll have with you in the, uh, deliberating room, uh, when you're deliberating. So you'll have a chance to go over that as well. So you'll have anything that's marked as an exhibit. Okay. Thank you.
[02:03:50] Speaker 9: Now, while she was taking these medications, the various pills, were you always with her watching and monitoring exactly what she took?
[02:04:03] Speaker 10: Not always, no. Yeah.
[02:04:05] Speaker 9: Sometimes you'd see it. Sometimes you wouldn't.
[02:04:07] Speaker 10: Yeah.
[02:04:08] Speaker 9: Directing your attention to February 6th, 2023, um, did you go to the district attorney's office and, um, or have your attorney go there and provide, um, a bag of, uh, prescription medication that had belonged to Lindsay?
[02:04:25] Speaker ?: Yeah.
[02:04:26] Speaker 10: Yeah. Um, I think the police took a bag of, uh, prescription medications that night, the night my kids passed away. And then, um, there was a bag, uh, that I had in my truck that I was supposed to, um, uh, nurse practitioner, which a lot at said, you can bring them to like a police station. They get rid of them for you. Um, but I, I never got around to it.
[02:04:54] Speaker 9: And where had you stored those in your truck?
[02:04:56] Speaker 10: Um, in the center console, it's like underneath the center console that opens.
[02:05:03] Speaker 9: You have one of those center consoles that open up, but then there's another larger compartment below it. Yeah. Um, so was it your plan to bring these to a location where they could be properly disposed?
[02:05:15] Speaker 10: Yeah. I didn't want to just throw them in the trash. So.
[02:05:19] Speaker 9: And these were all medications, um, that had been prescribed in the past to Lindsay, but she was no longer taking, correct?
[02:05:26] Speaker 10: Right.
[02:05:27] Speaker 6: I don't think I have any objection to any of their exhibits. So she doesn't have to keep showing it to me.
[02:05:40] Speaker 2: That's right. So I'll assume if the if you do have an objection, just rise, let me know. Okay.
[02:05:46] Speaker 9: Thank you. Thank you. And so looking in exhibit two, we have, um, the, the Zoloft that was prescribed by Dr. Tufts and filled on September 15th, 2022. Um, and I think we, I asked you earlier, you weren't aware that only seven pills were taken out of this, correct? That's correct.
[02:06:28] Speaker 10: Okay.
[02:06:29] Speaker 9: And then there's another prescription in here, um, for Ativan that was filled on October 26th, 2022. Were you aware that only six pills were taken out of that bottle?
[02:06:42] Speaker 10: Can you say the date again?
[02:06:44] Speaker 9: October 26th, 2022.
[02:06:47] Speaker 10: And how many did it start with?
[02:06:49] Speaker 9: let me see. 30 pills. Okay.
[02:07:17] Speaker 10: Um, I, I mean, I don't have those exact numbers on how many she took, but there was, there were adjustments made on the dosage of the Ativan. So it, that aligns with.
[02:07:30] Speaker 9: But the question was, were you aware that only six pills were taken out of this prescription?
[02:07:36] Speaker 10: Um, no, but I think the context is important. Okay. Were you aware, um, that there was a
[02:07:45] Speaker 9: prescription for Busparon or Buspar filled on October 26, 2022, um, in which only two pills
[02:07:53] Speaker 10: were taken out of the 30 that were prescribed? Um, I found out about the Buspar later and, um, I, I didn't know about the number of pills taken.
[02:08:03] Speaker 9: Okay. And then were you aware that there was a prescription for Hydroxenine? Um, prescription filled on October 26, 2022 for 30 pills and that, um, only three pills were taken out of this bottle. Um, which Hydroxenine? Yeah. What is that? I believe it's in some type of similar to an
[02:08:26] Speaker 10: antihistamine like Benadryl or something like that. Oh, okay. Um, I don't really recall much about that drug.
[02:08:33] Speaker 9: Okay. And were you aware in this bag, there was another prescription for Buspar that was filled on November 9th, 2022, 30 pills, um, prescribed, um, and no pills were taken out of this bottle.
[02:08:57] Speaker 10: Were you aware of that? I wasn't keeping track of the number of pills taken out of each bottle, so.
[02:09:03] Speaker 9: Okay. And then, um, I'll just ask you about one more. Um, the Trazodone, prescribed on November 16th, 2022, um, by a doctor from South Shore Hospital, um, 30 pills. Were you aware that only seven and a half pills were taken out of this prescription? No. So there were a lot of pills prescribed, but not a lot of pills taken, correct?
[02:09:33] Speaker 10: Um, is that comprehensive of all the pills that were prescribed?
[02:09:36] Speaker 9: These are the pills that you brought into the police station, so out of these?
[02:09:40] Speaker 10: Out of those, yeah. It's possible that not a lot were taken.
[02:09:53] Speaker 9: Um, do you recall what was the most amount of pills prescribed? That's, I guess I could ask this better. Um, what was the maximum number of medications she was on at any one time? I want to say three or four. Okay. Would it surprise you to know that she, at any given time, the most she was prescribed was three, but most of the time, it was two medications that she was prescribed at any given time? It wouldn't be terribly surprising, no. Now, um, on November 16th, 2022, did Lindsay visit South Shore Hospital? Uh, yes. Okay. And, um, why did she go to the, uh, South Shore Hospital that day?
[02:10:52] Speaker 10: I believe that day it was because she basically went 48 hours without sleeping.
[02:10:58] Speaker 9: And, um, was she having heart palpitations? I think so, yeah. Were you aware that she had taken a weed gummy that day? Um, I don't recall. And are you aware that she didn't tell medical staff at the hospital when describing her symptoms and her medication that she left out, that she had used marijuana?
[02:11:25] Speaker 10: I wasn't with her, so I don't know what she talked about at the hospital.
[02:11:28] Speaker 9: So she drove herself to the hospital? She did. Okay. And, um, she drove herself home from the hospital then? Is that correct? Correct. Now, during this time frame between September and November of 2022, um, are you still participating in, in activities as a family? Between November and December? Between September and November? Um, yeah. Okay. And what types of things were you doing?
[02:11:58] Speaker 10: Um, we celebrated Halloween. I, I don't really remember what else, but I think we were doing things regularly.
[02:12:14] Speaker 9: Do you recall going to an event, um, with food trucks? Yeah. And do you recall going to an event, um, in November, um, where there were trains to ride with the kids?
[02:12:35] Speaker 10: Yeah.
[02:12:40] Speaker 9: So we have, um, the photo from the food truck event that is at three.
[02:12:50] Speaker 11: And the photo from the training event is exhibit four. Three and four somewhere.
[02:12:57] Speaker ?: Can I make publish? You may.
[02:13:05] Speaker 7: So exhibit three is this, um, Lindsay, Cora, and Callan, um, at that event?
[02:13:11] Speaker ?: Yeah.
[02:13:12] Speaker 9: And exhibit four, this Lindsay with all three kids at that event in November? Yeah. Did you have plans for Thanksgiving that year?
[02:13:34] Speaker 10: Yeah.
[02:13:34] Speaker 9: What were your plans?
[02:13:37] Speaker 10: Um, I believe the order was we went to Wallingford where her parents lived. And the week before and then the week after, um, we went to my sister's house.
[02:13:50] Speaker 9: And, um, where did your sister live? What town?
[02:13:53] Speaker 10: South Hamilton.
[02:13:55] Speaker 9: And, um, that was a week after Thanksgiving. Is that correct?
[02:14:00] Speaker 10: I think so. Yeah. Yeah, it was.
[02:14:08] Speaker 7: And is this a photo from, um, Thanksgiving at your sister's house?
[02:14:14] Speaker 10: Yes.
[02:14:16] Speaker 7: I could have this photo marked as exhibit five, I believe.
[02:14:19] Speaker 2: All right, that may be marked.
[02:14:29] Speaker 7: Showing me what's been marked as exhibit five.
[02:14:33] Speaker 9: Is this Lindsay here on the left?
[02:14:36] Speaker 10: Yes.
[02:14:36] Speaker 9: Um, and are those your sisters in the photo with her?
[02:14:40] Speaker 10: That's one of my sisters and my sister-in-law. Okay.
[02:14:44] Speaker 9: And have they coordinated outfits for the day? The shirts?
[02:14:48] Speaker 10: Um, yeah, I think my sister did.
[02:14:54] Speaker 9: What was, um, Lindsay's demeanor that day?
[02:14:58] Speaker 10: Uh, she was in rough shape.
[02:15:01] Speaker 9: Rough shape?
[02:15:01] Speaker 10: Yeah.
[02:15:02] Speaker 9: How so?
[02:15:03] Speaker 10: She wasn't talking much. She had low energy. She was really depressed. I just remember when she showed up, um, my sister-in-law gave her a big hug.
[02:15:13] Speaker 9: And, um, she was able to get through dinner, eat dinner with everyone?
[02:15:18] Speaker ?: Yeah. Okay.
[02:15:19] Speaker 9: Um, she interacted with people. Is that correct?
[02:15:23] Speaker 10: I would say very little, but to some degree, sure.
[02:15:26] Speaker 9: And she took care of the kids with you while she was there?
[02:15:30] Speaker 10: We both took care of the kids together.
[02:15:37] Speaker 9: You mentioned earlier that your wedding anniversary is in December. Is that correct?
[02:15:41] Speaker 8: Yeah.
[02:15:42] Speaker 9: Do you recall going out for your anniversary on December 3rd, 2022, going into Boston?
[02:15:50] Speaker 10: No, we didn't go out.
[02:15:52] Speaker 9: You don't recall, um, arranging for a massage for Lindsay and then going to the Omni Parker house and, um, going out to dinner that night?
[02:16:02] Speaker 10: No, December 3rd, 2022, we stayed home.
[02:16:04] Speaker 9: You stayed home. I'm showing you a photo of you and Lizzie.
[02:16:18] Speaker ?: Do you recognize this photo?
[02:16:19] Speaker 11: Do you recognize this photo?
[02:16:35] Speaker ?: Yeah.
[02:16:35] Speaker 11: And when was that taken?
[02:16:39] Speaker 10: I, I'm not really sure.
[02:16:41] Speaker 7: It wasn't taken on December 3rd when you were out celebrating your anniversary?
[02:16:45] Speaker 10: In 2022? Yes. No. No, we, we wanted to go out, um, but we canceled because she wasn't feeling well. So we stayed home. We got takeout.
[02:16:58] Speaker 9: Okay. Did you also, um, in, on November 26th, 2022, um, go out as a family to get a Christmas tree?
[02:17:12] Speaker 10: Yes. Well, probably, I don't know. But yeah, around that time, yes. Okay.
[02:17:26] Speaker 9: Showing you two photos. Are these from that day when you, uh, got the Christmas tree?
[02:17:32] Speaker 10: Yeah. That looks accurate.
[02:17:38] Speaker 11: You can have the first photo of all five.
[02:17:45] Speaker ?: Six.
[02:17:46] Speaker 7: And then the second one is exit at seven.
[02:17:55] Speaker ?: Is it at seven?
[02:18:02] Speaker 7: Going into exhibit six.
[02:18:08] Speaker 11: All of you at the tree farm?
[02:18:10] Speaker 8: Yeah.
[02:18:12] Speaker 11: And exhibit seven, those are the kids?
[02:18:16] Speaker 10: Yes.
[02:18:28] Speaker 9: Around December 6th, 2022. Did Lindsey tell you she was starting a new medication?
[02:18:38] Speaker 10: Uh, I don't remember specifically.
[02:18:42] Speaker 9: Is it that you don't remember the date or you don't remember her starting a new medication?
[02:18:48] Speaker 10: I'm not sure.
[02:18:49] Speaker 9: Do you remember Lindsey telling you at some point she was starting the medication Seroquel?
[02:18:55] Speaker 10: Yes.
[02:18:55] Speaker 9: Do you remember around what time frame that was?
[02:18:59] Speaker 10: I thought it was before December 6th. Okay.
[02:19:07] Speaker 9: And do you recall how she was physically after starting the Seroquel?
[02:19:19] Speaker 10: Awful.
[02:19:20] Speaker 9: How so?
[02:19:22] Speaker 10: That was really where her big spiral started. She started to lose a lot of weight and she became very depressed and she was having a really hard time.
[02:19:36] Speaker 9: And did she describe to you some thoughts or feelings that she was having at that time?
[02:19:44] Speaker 10: Yeah. She started to say she was suicidal.
[02:19:47] Speaker 9: And was that in December of 2022?
[02:19:50] Speaker 10: I think so, yeah. Okay.
[02:19:51] Speaker ?: Okay.
[02:19:52] Speaker 9: And when she told you she was suicidal, did you ask her if she had a plan on how to kill herself?
[02:19:58] Speaker ?: Yes.
[02:19:58] Speaker 9: And what was her response?
[02:20:01] Speaker 10: She said no.
[02:20:04] Speaker 9: And did she ever mention a specific way or plan she had to kill herself to you?
[02:20:09] Speaker 10: No.
[02:20:10] Speaker 9: And at some point in time, did she tell you that this was the first time she had had suicidal thoughts?
[02:20:24] Speaker 10: Um, I don't know if she mentioned it was the first time or not. I just remember her saying she had them.
[02:20:29] Speaker 9: Had you ever heard her say that to you before that she was having suicidal thoughts?
[02:20:34] Speaker 10: No.
[02:20:36] Speaker 9: Um, did you own at that time a Surface Pro, a type of tablet that works as a laptop?
[02:20:44] Speaker 10: Yeah.
[02:20:44] Speaker 9: And who had access to that laptop?
[02:20:47] Speaker 10: Uh, we both did. Okay.
[02:20:49] Speaker 9: You and Lindsey? Yeah. And going back to August 22nd, 2022, did you click on a link on that Surface Pro that was titled Methods of Suicide?
[02:21:01] Speaker 10: Not that I recall. Okay.
[02:21:04] Speaker 9: And August 22nd, 2022, that was before Lindsey had been on any medications, as far as you know, correct?
[02:21:11] Speaker 10: Correct.
[02:21:17] Speaker 9: Going back to December, um, she's told you that she's having these thoughts. Um, what's your reaction when she tells you that she's having these suicidal thoughts?
[02:21:31] Speaker 10: Um, I just wanted to support her. I, I asked those questions back to her and, um, her, you know, her mother was coming up pretty regularly anyways. So, um, we let them know and, um, we just try to be supportive.
[02:21:48] Speaker 9: Did she also tell you at that time, at the beginning of December, that she was having, um, some other intrusive thoughts? Yeah. Is that how she described them or how you described them? Intrusive thoughts?
[02:22:00] Speaker 10: I would say both.
[02:22:01] Speaker 9: Okay. And, um, when she told you that she was having intrusive thoughts, did you ask her what they were?
[02:22:08] Speaker 10: Yeah.
[02:22:09] Speaker 9: And what was her response?
[02:22:11] Speaker 10: She described thoughts of, of hurting the kids or, um, or having, or them having some sort of ailment. So, like, she was very worried that Cora had, whenever she had a stomachache, she became overly worried that she was, um, you know, like, had like a liver problem or something much more dramatic than it was. Okay.
[02:22:34] Speaker 9: Okay. But going back to that first part, she said she had thoughts of harming the kids. Is that correct?
[02:22:39] Speaker 10: Yeah.
[02:22:39] Speaker 9: And did she tell you, um, whether or not she had specific thoughts of how she would harm the kids?
[02:22:46] Speaker ?: No.
[02:22:46] Speaker 9: And she didn't describe that as hearing this external voice telling her to harm the kids, correct?
[02:22:54] Speaker 10: Correct.
[02:22:54] Speaker 9: She told you she was having intrusive thoughts herself of having, of harming the children, correct?
[02:23:01] Speaker 10: Uh, correct.
[02:23:03] Speaker 9: And, um, did you ask her, um, how she was going to harm the kids?
[02:23:09] Speaker 10: I, I didn't ask it in that way. I, it was the same thing. I said, do you have a plan and is it disturbing to you? And, uh, she said, no. And then she said, yes.
[02:23:18] Speaker 9: And, um, let me go back for a minute there. You said, did she, do you have a plan? And she said, no. What was the second question? Second part of the question?
[02:23:27] Speaker 10: Is it, do you find it disturbing? And she said, yes. And she described it as really the way she was describing it as, um, something that might happen to the kids.
[02:23:38] Speaker 9: So it was more something might happen than she might do something. Is that correct?
[02:23:43] Speaker 10: Yeah.
[02:23:44] Speaker 9: And, um, did, did she tell you how long she had those thoughts for?
[02:23:52] Speaker 10: She didn't give a duration.
[02:23:54] Speaker 9: And, um, how many times did she tell you this, that she had thoughts of harming the kids?
[02:24:02] Speaker 10: A couple of times.
[02:24:03] Speaker 9: And was that a couple of times over the course of a night or two in December?
[02:24:08] Speaker 10: Yeah. Okay.
[02:24:09] Speaker 9: And as a result of her telling you this, that she had thoughts of harming the kids, what did you do?
[02:24:15] Speaker 10: Um, her parents came up and, um, I think I asked her at some point, you know, do you feel like you need to be kept away from them? And she said, no. And then, you know, it was very confusing because a minute later she was making them lunch or playing with them or, you know, getting them ready for bed or whatever it was.
[02:24:35] Speaker 9: So it was confusing in that she wasn't physically harming them at the time, but was having had had these thoughts. Is that what you're saying?
[02:24:45] Speaker 10: Right. I never saw Lindsey harm the kids.
[02:24:50] Speaker 9: And did you also, um, as a result of, um, these statements, uh, suggest an appointment with that nurse practitioner, Gelata?
[02:24:58] Speaker 10: It wasn't as a result of these statements. Um, that appointment was set up because, um, we were at her parents' house in Wallingford for Thanksgiving and she just described, um, how she was feeling on the medication and she felt that she was, um, she felt that she was addicted to them.
[02:25:21] Speaker 9: Was that the benzodiazepines that she thought she was addicted to?
[02:25:25] Speaker 10: Uh, primarily. And then she was taking Seroquel at the same time and, um, she might've been taking trazodone or Remeron, I'm not sure.
[02:25:33] Speaker 9: Okay. Um, are you, do you recall testifying previously, um, that I called her parents to come up to stay with us? And I told her that we needed, I asked her who her doctor was because I was very concerned at this point. She was prescribed 10 different medications in just over two months. So it didn't make sense to me. And then you said, so after her parents came up, um, she has, she said, I have a remote meeting with Rebecca Gelata and you said, no, it has to be in person.
[02:25:58] Speaker 10: Yeah. I felt like it had to be in person because, um, I just felt like there was a disconnect. I, I, I felt like we could figure it out. Um, whatever was going on. Mm-hmm. So, um, most of her, it seemed like most of her telehealth appointments were pretty quick and, um, there just wasn't like a lot of attention.
[02:26:20] Speaker 9: Were you present for these telehealth visits?
[02:26:23] Speaker 10: Only a few of them. Okay. And they were after that meeting with Gelata. Okay.
[02:26:28] Speaker 9: And that appointment in person with Gelata was December 6th, 2022. Is that correct?
[02:26:32] Speaker 10: That sounds correct.
[02:26:33] Speaker 9: So the thought of harming the kids was after Thanksgiving, but before December 6th. Is that correct?
[02:26:42] Speaker 10: Uh, that, that sounds correct.
[02:26:45] Speaker 9: Were you concerned for the kids' safety at that time?
[02:26:49] Speaker 10: No, I wasn't. No, I wasn't.
[02:26:51] Speaker 9: And why not?
[02:26:52] Speaker 10: Because she wasn't showing any intention of harming the kids.
[02:26:56] Speaker 9: And she told you she didn't have a plan. Is that correct?
[02:26:59] Speaker 10: Correct.
[02:26:59] Speaker 9: Now, um, directing your attention to December 15th, 2022. Um, did Lindsay go to Mass General Hospital to the emergency department that day? Yeah.
[02:27:22] Speaker 10: Okay.
[02:27:23] Speaker 9: And why was that?
[02:27:25] Speaker 10: Um, I remember the reasoning being she, um, told her dad that she wanted to commit suicide. And then she said to me, I told my dad I want to die. And it didn't bother me at all.
[02:27:40] Speaker 9: And as a result of those statements, you brought her or did she bring herself to Mass General?
[02:27:58] Speaker 10: I think I brought her that time.
[02:28:00] Speaker 9: And at Mass General, she saw medical staff, correct?
[02:28:05] Speaker 10: Yeah.
[02:28:06] Speaker ?: Okay.
[02:28:07] Speaker 9: And, um, did they recommend to her some type of, um, admission to McLean Hospital?
[02:28:15] Speaker 10: Um, I remember there was one doctor who was in favor of that. And there were two others who were more in favor of a day program. Okay.
[02:28:23] Speaker 9: And did they give you information about a specific day program?
[02:28:27] Speaker 10: Yeah, it was women and infants in Providence.
[02:28:31] Speaker 9: And at that time when, um, Lindsay was saying that she was suicidal, um, was she asked if she had a plan?
[02:28:39] Speaker 10: By the doctors?
[02:28:40] Speaker 9: Or by you?
[02:28:42] Speaker 10: Um, I was always checking in with her and, um, she never told me that she had a plan. I'm not sure what the doctors asked her. Okay.
[02:28:49] Speaker 9: And after, um, being at Mass General on December 15th, um, did she go to Women and Infants Hospital in Rhode Island, um, to attempt to get into their, uh, postpartum program?
[02:29:06] Speaker 10: She was already in. She, she went in as scheduled. Okay.
[02:29:11] Speaker 9: And, um, but she didn't remain in, correct? She was just there for a day?
[02:29:14] Speaker 10: Correct. Okay.
[02:29:16] Speaker 9: And, um, did she go by herself? Did you go with her?
[02:29:19] Speaker 10: I dropped her off and then I took Dawson skiing. Okay.
[02:29:23] Speaker 9: And, um, at some point in time, did Lindsay reach out to you to say she wasn't staying at the program and to come pick her up?
[02:29:32] Speaker 10: Um, she actually said that the, um, the providers at that program suggested to her that she call me and have her come get picked up and then that I should go in and meet with the providers.
[02:29:43] Speaker 9: Okay, and then after you picked her up, you didn't, she was no longer in the program at that point, correct? At Rhode Island Women and Children's, right?
[02:29:56] Speaker 10: Well, we discussed it with the doctors and their recommendation was that the program wasn't right for her.
[02:30:01] Speaker 9: Right. And so you guys returned home, is that correct? Yes.
[02:30:05] Speaker 10: Okay.
[02:30:07] Speaker 9: And, um, during this timeframe, um, in December, um, Lindsay's still working out at the Kingsbury Club, correct?
[02:30:23] Speaker 10: That might be true. I don't recall exactly, but yeah.
[02:30:26] Speaker 9: Do you recall her going to the Kingsbury Club on December 6th, 13th, 16th, 17th or 18th?
[02:30:40] Speaker 10: I mean, I, I believe that can be true. Yeah, I don't recall those exact dates, but yeah.
[02:30:47] Speaker 9: Um, at, at this time when, um, she's saying that she's feeling suicidal, um, she's telling you she doesn't have a plan, correct?
[02:31:00] Speaker 10: Mm-hmm.
[02:31:01] Speaker 9: She's no longer saying she has any thoughts of harming the children, correct? Correct. Um, she's still bringing the children to doctor's appointments during that time, right?
[02:31:12] Speaker 10: Yeah.
[02:31:13] Speaker 9: Do you recall, um, her bringing, uh, Callan and Dawson, uh, to the doctors on December 2nd when they weren't feeling well?
[02:31:23] Speaker 10: Yeah.
[02:31:24] Speaker 9: And then, um, she was able to call the doctor's office on December 27th and make an appointment for Callan and Cora when they weren't feeling well. Do you remember that?
[02:31:33] Speaker 10: Yeah.
[02:31:33] Speaker 9: And take them to the doctor, I believe with you, correct?
[02:31:39] Speaker 10: Um, maybe, I, I don't know.
[02:31:43] Speaker 9: And then on December 30th, um, she was able to take Callan, um, to the doctor that day as well and interact with the, with the staff. Is that correct?
[02:31:52] Speaker 10: Probably.
[02:31:57] Speaker 9: Then, um, you returned to Mass General Hospital, the emergency department on December 31st. Is that correct?
[02:32:05] Speaker 10: Yes.
[02:32:05] Speaker 9: And why did you go back on the 31st?
[02:32:09] Speaker 10: Um, because she was still talking about thoughts of suicide. And, um, I, I was exhausted. I said, I think it's time to go to McLean. And, uh, we didn't have a diagnosis. So we just, we just didn't really know what was wrong. And, um, I think for me, I was hoping that McLean could really evaluate her and, and, you know, try to figure out the best path forward.
[02:32:37] Speaker 9: Okay, so the path to getting to McLean was to go to the emergency department at Mass General and be referred to McLean. Is that correct? Yes. Were you aware, um, that that night, um, while at the hospital,
[02:32:53] Speaker 7: um, Lindsay was taking selfies?
[02:33:00] Speaker 10: Uh, no.
[02:33:16] Speaker 7: Can you exhibit me taking a selfie at the hospital, is that correct?
[02:33:37] Speaker 10: Are you asking me? Yes. Yeah, I can see that.
[02:33:39] Speaker 7: And then the second page is just, um, her legs in the doorway, is that correct? Yep.
[02:33:58] Speaker 9: As a result of going to Mass General and telling them about her, her suicidal thoughts, um, was she transferred to McLean Hospital? Yeah. Okay. And, um, did you stay with her throughout that transfer process or were you able to?
[02:34:15] Speaker 10: I was not able to, they, for some reason, they transfer. I don't know if they do this with all patients, but she was transferred at three in the morning. Okay.
[02:34:24] Speaker 9: And so, um, she reached McLean in the early morning hours of, um, January 1st then of 2023. Is that correct?
[02:34:31] Speaker 10: Yeah. Yeah.
[02:34:32] Speaker 9: Okay. And did you visit her at McLean Hospital? Yeah. How often did you see her there?
[02:34:38] Speaker 10: I think I was able to go twice, uh, or maybe three times. Okay.
[02:34:43] Speaker 9: And do you remember, you know, what visiting hours were or what hours you visited?
[02:34:46] Speaker 10: I don't remember exactly, but it was, you know, something like two to six. And I think there were morning hours or, but you couldn't just go anytime.
[02:34:54] Speaker 9: You couldn't or could?
[02:34:56] Speaker 10: You could not. Okay.
[02:34:57] Speaker 9: And so you, um, out of the few days that she was there, what, five days she was there, you visited two or three times. Is that correct? Yeah. And while you were there with her, did she, did Lindsay talk to you, um, about the, um, treatment that she was receiving at McLean Hospital?
[02:35:16] Speaker 10: Uh, she told me about her, her experience. It didn't really seem like she was getting any treatment. Okay.
[02:35:21] Speaker 9: Did she tell you that she wasn't really getting any treatment or wasn't getting as much, um, care or treatment as she wanted?
[02:35:29] Speaker 10: Uh, well, I think by the third day I, I said, um, you know, what are the, what are the doctors said? And she said, I haven't met with the doctor. Um, the challenge was she arrived on a Saturday and then I think Monday was an observed holiday. So she didn't see a doctor until Tuesday. So until then, um, she was coloring and playing with clay and going for walks.
[02:35:52] Speaker 9: Were you aware that, um, she was seen by a resident, a doctor, um, the first two days she was there and then in attending on the third day that she was there?
[02:36:03] Speaker 10: No.
[02:36:04] Speaker 9: Were you aware that she was seen by a licensed social worker, group therapist and other mental health workers, um, every day while she was there?
[02:36:12] Speaker 10: Yeah, I, I didn't get any updates. Okay.
[02:36:15] Speaker 9: Were you aware that she was offered one-on-one, um, therapy by unit staff every day that she was there? No. Did you know that she participated in group therapy on January 1st for 45 minutes, a session about illness and symptom management?
[02:36:30] Speaker 10: Uh, I, I was aware of some group activities. I didn't know the details of it.
[02:36:35] Speaker 9: And were you aware that she participated in two group therapy sessions, one for 45 minutes and one for 50 minutes, one on self-compassion and one on illness and symptom management on January 3rd?
[02:36:48] Speaker 10: I wasn't aware of the subject of any of the meetings now. No.
[02:36:51] Speaker 9: Were you aware that she declined further, um, group therapy and treatment, um, in the afternoon of January 3rd? No. Were you aware that on January 4th she participated in a group, uh, for 40 minutes called medication management?
[02:37:06] Speaker ?: No.
[02:37:08] Speaker 9: Were you aware that she participated in a group on January 5th on expressive therapy for 45 minutes? No. And were you aware that she declined further treatment, uh, two times in, on January 5th, um, one to attend a group therapy and one to attend a session on cognitive behavioral processes? No. Were you aware that, um, Lindsay asked the doctors to be discharged, um, on the 6th, Friday the 6th, because she wanted to go to Cora's birthday party on the 7th?
[02:37:40] Speaker 10: Um, not that I recall.
[02:37:43] Speaker 9: Were you aware or did Lindsay tell you that, um, she then asked the doctors to discharge her on January 5th, um, because she wanted to, to go home and get ready for the party?
[02:37:55] Speaker 10: I wasn't aware of Lindsay asking the doctors to be discharged. Okay.
[02:38:03] Speaker 9: Were there any insurance issues in terms of insurance refusing to pay for her stay at McLean Hospital?
[02:38:10] Speaker 10: I, we didn't really get to that point.
[02:38:13] Speaker 9: You weren't advised by the social worker or any staff there that there were any issues with your insurance, is that correct?
[02:38:21] Speaker 10: Uh, yeah, that's correct, but I wouldn't have cared either.
[02:38:24] Speaker 9: Would you have just paid for it if needed?
[02:38:26] Speaker 10: I would have paid anything.
[02:38:27] Speaker 2: Yeah. Ms. Sprague, is this a good time to break? Yes. All right. So, Mr. Drew, we're going to break, uh, for the afternoon recess, um, and, uh, we'll see you back here about two o'clock.
[02:38:44] Speaker ?: Okay.
[02:38:44] Speaker 1: Court, all rise. Do a motion no put to place them on your chair. Follow me.
[02:39:03] Speaker 2: All right. Council, anything we need to address before the break?
[02:39:33] Speaker 9: No, your honor.
[02:39:33] Speaker 2: All right. So, we'll see everybody about two o'clock. Thank you.
[02:39:58] Speaker ?: I'll just call it back in the session. You may be seated.
[02:40:08] Speaker 2: Anything we need to talk about before we bring the jury in?
[02:40:10] Speaker 9: No, your honor. Did you want the witness on the stand now or after?
[02:40:14] Speaker 2: Well, we've got a couple of seconds. The jurors are coming in right now. If you want to have them take the stand, that's fine.
[02:40:19] Speaker ?: The jurors are coming in right now. Thank you. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:41:26] Speaker 1: The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:41:32] Speaker 3: The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:41:36] Speaker 2: The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:41:41] Speaker 9: The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:41:42] Speaker ?: The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:41:43] Speaker 9: The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:41:49] Speaker 10: The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:41:50] Speaker 9: The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:41:55] Speaker 10: The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:41:56] Speaker 9: The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:41:59] Speaker 10: The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:42:00] Speaker 9: The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:42:06] Speaker 10: The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:42:08] Speaker ?: The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:42:18] Speaker 9: I want to show you some photos here. Of the children and just ask if this is a fair and accurate depiction of how they looked in January of 2023.
[02:42:36] Speaker 10: Yes.
[02:42:43] Speaker ?: So we could have them marked this in the four exhibits. All right.
[02:42:46] Speaker 2: They may be marked.
[02:43:01] Speaker ?: The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:43:06] Speaker 7: So I'm showing you specific nine. Quora, correct?
[02:43:14] Speaker 9: Can you tell us a little bit about what Quora was like in January of 2023? What our interests were?
[02:43:20] Speaker 2: Um.
[02:43:22] Speaker 6: I'm going to reject it at this point.
[02:43:25] Speaker 2: Council, can I see it sidebar? The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:43:30] Speaker ?: The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:44:27] Speaker 7: The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:44:32] Speaker ?: The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:44:33] Speaker 10: The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:44:36] Speaker ?: The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:44:40] Speaker 10: The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:44:43] Speaker ?: The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:44:56] Speaker 7: The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:44:58] Speaker 10: The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:44:59] Speaker ?: The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:45:00] Speaker 7: The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:45:02] Speaker ?: The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:45:04] Speaker 10: The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:45:08] Speaker ?: The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:45:11] Speaker 10: The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:45:13] Speaker ?: The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:45:15] Speaker 10: The jurors are coming in right now. And the jurors are coming in right now.
[02:45:27] Speaker ?: The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:45:28] Speaker 9: The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:45:29] Speaker ?: The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:45:30] Speaker 10: The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:45:33] Speaker ?: The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:45:34] Speaker 7: The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:45:40] Speaker 9: The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:45:44] Speaker 10: The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:45:45] Speaker ?: The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:45:58] Speaker 9: The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:46:18] Speaker ?: The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:46:19] Speaker 10: The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:46:21] Speaker ?: The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:46:22] Speaker 9: The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:46:25] Speaker 10: The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:46:26] Speaker ?: The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:46:29] Speaker 9: The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:46:34] Speaker 10: The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:46:45] Speaker 9: The jurors are coming in right now.
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[02:47:00] Speaker 9: The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now.
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[02:47:21] Speaker 7: The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:47:24] Speaker 2: The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:47:26] Speaker 7: The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now.
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[02:47:45] Speaker 9: The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now.
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[02:47:59] Speaker ?: The jurors are coming in right now.
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[02:48:51] Speaker 11: The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:48:54] Speaker 7: The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:49:00] Speaker 9: The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:49:15] Speaker 7: The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:49:17] Speaker 10: The jurors are coming in right now.
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[02:49:28] Speaker 10: The jurors are coming in right now.
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[02:49:34] Speaker 9: The jurors are coming in right now.
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[02:56:58] Speaker 9: The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:57:18] Speaker ?: The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:57:19] Speaker 2: The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:57:24] Speaker 11: The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:57:28] Speaker 9: The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:57:34] Speaker 2: The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:57:45] Speaker ?: The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now. The jurors are coming in right now.
[02:58:15] Speaker 9: At the Museum of Science, do you recall the defendant being able to interact with the children at exhibits that required manipulating knobs and materials and showing the children how to do those exhibits and interacting with them at those exhibits? Yeah.
[02:58:33] Speaker 10: Lindsay was always able to interact with our kids, including at the Museum of Science.
[02:58:38] Speaker ?: Okay.
[02:58:39] Speaker 9: And then after your trip to the Museum of Science, do you remember going to the Charlie Horse restaurant with the kids and Lindsay?
[02:58:48] Speaker 11: Yes.
[02:58:49] Speaker 9: And how soon after the Museum of Science was that? Do you recall?
[02:58:54] Speaker 10: I don't recall the exact dates.
[02:58:56] Speaker 9: Okay. And what type of place is the Charlie Horse restaurant?
[02:59:00] Speaker 10: It's like a family restaurant with games.
[02:59:02] Speaker 9: And how was the defendant's demeanor at the restaurant?
[02:59:07] Speaker 10: It was good. I was hopeful. Why were you hopeful? Because she seemed much better.
[02:59:14] Speaker 9: And then on January 14th, 2023, were you able to go to brunch with your friends while the defendant was home with the children? Yeah. And about how long were you gone?
[02:59:31] Speaker 10: About two hours.
[02:59:34] Speaker 9: Were there any issues or problems that you were aware of while you were gone?
[02:59:39] Speaker 10: No. She encouraged me to go. She said, "You've just been inside a lot. You should go out." And it was fine.
[02:59:46] Speaker 9: And while you were there at brunch, did she send you photos of the kids and text messages?
[02:59:53] Speaker 10: I think so.
[02:59:54] Speaker ?: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[02:59:58] Speaker 9: Yeah. Direct your attention to January 15th, 2023. Did you and Lindsay and the kids go to the Cape Codder in Hyannis? Yeah. And was there a water park there? Yeah. And how was Lindsay's demeanor that day? It seemed pretty good. Was she able to interact with the children and participate in the activities? Yes. If I could bring up photos again, I would just like you to look at the photos to point out who
[03:00:29] Speaker 7: the individuals are in the photo. So here in the dark shorts with the white band on the top?
[03:00:40] Speaker 10: That's me.
[03:00:41] Speaker 7: And then in the bathing suit here with the corny tail?
[03:00:45] Speaker 10: That's Cora.
[03:00:46] Speaker 7: And then in the striped swimsuit at the bottom? That's Dawson. And then here in the black bathing suit without shoulder straps?
[03:01:00] Speaker 10: Lindsay.
[03:01:01] Speaker 7: Lindsay?
[03:01:02] Speaker ?: Okay.
[03:01:03] Speaker 7: And is that- That was Cora with her? Yes. And in this third photo, is that Lindsay with Callan in her arms? Yeah.
[03:01:20] Speaker 9: And that photo there is that Dawson with the striped bathing suit?
[03:01:24] Speaker 2: Yep.
[03:01:25] Speaker ?: Okay.
[03:01:26] Speaker 9: We can go to the video with the court's permission. Why? I'm just going to go to certain clips. If we could start with the- from the beginning to 40 seconds in and play. Sir, if you could tell us who- well, can you confirm that that's you and the children and Lindsay arriving now? Yes. Would that be Cora in the purple jacket with the pink boots?
[03:02:08] Speaker 10: Yes.
[03:02:09] Speaker 9: And Lindsay in the gray coat with the backpack?
[03:02:12] Speaker 10: Yes.
[03:02:19] Speaker 9: And then if we could go to 139. I'm going to go in. During this time, are you waiting to check in and get your wristbands and all of that?
[03:03:13] Speaker 10: Yeah.
[03:03:21] Speaker 7: We could go to 647.
[03:03:48] Speaker 9: Do you recognize this play area? Yes. And did you and Lindsey and the children go over to this partnership area? Yep.
[03:04:06] Speaker 10: I'm showing you here.
[03:04:07] Speaker ?: Is that Cora that just went down the slide? Yeah. Is that you there by the slide? Yeah.
[03:04:07] Speaker 9: Is that you there by the slide? Yeah. We can go to 1122.
[03:04:10] Speaker 7: We can go to 1122. We can go to 1122.
[03:04:12] Speaker ?: Let's see. Let's see. Let's see. Okay. Let's see. Okay. Okay. Okay. Let's see. Let's see. Okay. Okay.
[03:04:21] Speaker 9: And is that you there by the slide? Yeah. We can go to 1122.
[03:04:51] Speaker ?: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
[03:06:21] Speaker 9: We could go to 1406. Okay.
[03:06:25] Speaker ?: Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.
[03:06:49] Speaker 11: Okay.
[03:06:51] Speaker 9: 1625. Sir, here at 1625. Is that Cora and then Lindsey that go down the slide together? Yeah. We can go to 1745. Is that the same thing here? Yeah. So she's able to interact with Cora and the others, participate in the activities? Yeah. If we could go to 4753, please. If you're up in the corner here, is this you and Dawson and Cora entering the pool area? Yeah. Lindsey was with Callan at that time, correct?
[03:08:16] Speaker 7: Yes.
[03:08:17] Speaker 9: So you were comfortable with her being off in a separate area with Callan while you were with Cora and Dawson that day?
[03:08:24] Speaker 10: Yeah.
[03:08:25] Speaker 7: Okay. That's all. Thank you. I move to submit the photos and timeline.
[03:08:32] Speaker 2: Again, let me just see over here just briefly just so I have that straight.
[03:08:39] Speaker ?: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
[03:12:09] Speaker 9: Thank you. Stretching your attention now to January 16th, 2023. Did you go skiing that day?
[03:12:18] Speaker 10: Yeah.
[03:12:19] Speaker 9: And who did you go skiing with?
[03:12:20] Speaker 10: Cora.
[03:12:22] Speaker 9: And was it just the two of you?
[03:12:23] Speaker 10: No, we went with another dad and his son.
[03:12:27] Speaker 9: Okay. And who was that dad?
[03:12:28] Speaker 10: Adam Schwebuck.
[03:12:30] Speaker 9: Okay. And was Lindsay home with Callan and Dawson that day when you went skiing with Cora?
[03:12:39] Speaker 10: Yeah.
[03:12:40] Speaker 9: Were there any issues or problems that you're aware of when she was home alone with the kids all day? No. And was she able to communicate with you throughout the day? Yeah. And how was that communication done?
[03:12:55] Speaker 10: Texts. I might have called her. I'm not sure.
[03:12:58] Speaker 9: And do you recall texting each other back and forth photos of you with Cora and the boys at home and what they were doing?
[03:13:07] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[03:13:08] Speaker 9: And so she was able to take those photographs and send them to you without any apparent problem, correct?
[03:13:14] Speaker 10: Correct.
[03:13:22] Speaker 11: Show you the three text messages with the attached photos.
[03:13:38] Speaker 7: So, sir, um, are these accurate copies of the text messages with the photos that were sent between yourself and the defendant, um, on January 16th, 2023?
[03:14:01] Speaker ?: Yes.
[03:14:02] Speaker 9: I'd like to, um, move to have these marked as the next three exhibits.
[03:14:06] Speaker 2: They may be admitted.
[03:14:08] Speaker 9: So, sir, showing you, um, the first photo, which was marked, um, exhibit 16th. Um, did you start off the conversation by sending the photo of you in Cora, Steve?
[03:14:45] Speaker 10: Yeah.
[03:14:49] Speaker 9: And showing you exhibit 17. Did Lindsay respond by taking and sending this photo of Dawson?
[03:14:55] Speaker 10: Yeah.
[03:14:58] Speaker 9: And then did she respond again, sending you a selfie she took of herself and Cowan?
[03:15:05] Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
[03:15:16] Speaker 9: And you felt comfortable leaving Callan and Dawson home with her that day?
[03:15:20] Speaker 10: Yeah.
[03:15:21] Speaker 9: And why is that?
[03:15:23] Speaker 10: She seemed to be doing a lot better.
[03:15:25] Speaker 9: In what ways did she seem to be doing better?
[03:15:27] Speaker 10: Um, her mood seemed better. Her, she was more active and, um, she was able to, she was able to partake in more things.
[03:15:38] Speaker 9: She was also going to the gym during that time as well, correct? The Kingsbury club?
[03:15:42] Speaker 10: That sounds right. Yeah. Okay.
[03:15:50] Speaker 9: Um, were you hopeful at that time that things were getting better?
[03:15:53] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[03:15:56] Speaker 9: Um, did Lindsay's parents visit you the weekend of January 21st through the 22nd?
[03:16:01] Speaker 10: Yeah.
[03:16:02] Speaker 9: And whose idea was that? Do you recall?
[03:16:05] Speaker 10: I, I think it was theirs. I think they were just coming to visit to say hi.
[03:16:09] Speaker ?: Okay.
[03:16:10] Speaker 9: And, um, what did you guys do that weekend?
[03:16:14] Speaker 10: Um, we just hung out and, um, went to a friend's house on Sunday. They left after we got back from there.
[03:16:22] Speaker 9: And, um, whose friend's house did you go to that Sunday?
[03:16:28] Speaker 10: The Carney's.
[03:16:29] Speaker 9: Carney's. Okay. And who went to the Carney's?
[03:16:33] Speaker 10: Uh, Lindsay, myself, Dawson, and Cora.
[03:16:37] Speaker 9: And, um, what did you do there?
[03:16:40] Speaker 10: Um, there was a fire and we were, I think we roast some marshmallows or something like that.
[03:16:45] Speaker ?: Okay.
[03:16:45] Speaker 9: And, um, how was Lindsay's demeanor that day?
[03:16:49] Speaker 10: She was quieter that day. So, I mean, that was the extent of it.
[03:16:55] Speaker 9: Was she able to interact with the Carney's?
[03:16:58] Speaker 10: Yeah, but she's quiet.
[03:17:00] Speaker ?: Okay.
[03:17:01] Speaker 9: And, um, you said you returned home and then her parents left?
[03:17:05] Speaker 10: Yeah. Okay.
[03:17:21] Speaker 9: Do you recall Lindsay and her mom taking a picture together that weekend?
[03:17:25] Speaker 10: Yeah.
[03:17:28] Speaker 7: Is this that photo?
[03:17:30] Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it.
[03:17:31] Speaker 7: You could have this marked as the next exhibit?
[03:17:33] Speaker 2: It may be admitted.
[03:17:37] Speaker 7: It's exhibit 19. And, um, Lindsay seems to be doing better that weekend, correct?
[03:17:48] Speaker 10: Overall, yeah.
[03:17:49] Speaker 9: Were you aware that her mother had sent her a text saying something to the effect of, I'm glad you're doing so much better?
[03:17:55] Speaker 10: I became aware of that later, yeah.
[03:17:57] Speaker 9: I'm sorry, Your Honor, I didn't mark the, um, still photo from the Museum of Science. I'm sorry, Your Honor, I didn't mark the, um, still photo from the Museum of Science.
[03:18:15] Speaker 7: If you could have that as the next exhibit. Sure.
[03:18:19] Speaker 11: Is it a 20?
[03:18:26] Speaker ?: Thank you.
[03:18:26] Speaker 9: That Monday after her parents had gone home to Connecticut, so Monday the 23rd of January, um, did Cora and Dawson go to school? Yeah.
[03:18:47] Speaker 10: Yeah.
[03:18:47] Speaker 9: And do you recall Lindsay picking them up that afternoon?
[03:18:53] Speaker 10: Yeah.
[03:18:53] Speaker 9: When Lindsay returned home with Cora and Dawson, did she discuss with you that Cora, um, was having some stomach issues at school?
[03:19:02] Speaker 10: Yeah.
[03:19:03] Speaker 9: And were you familiar with the stomach issues that Cora had been having? Yeah.
[03:19:08] Speaker ?: Yeah.
[03:19:08] Speaker 9: And did, um, you have an idea of what was causing those stomach issues?
[03:19:14] Speaker 10: Yeah, it wasn't unusual. She, um, was embarrassed to go to the bathroom at school, so she just held it all day.
[03:19:20] Speaker 9: Okay. And so this was a common occurrence?
[03:19:23] Speaker 10: Yeah.
[03:19:24] Speaker 9: Okay. And, um, were you aware that Cora had a, her five-year physical scheduled for the next day, uh, Tuesday, the 24th?
[03:19:32] Speaker 10: Uh, no, I didn't know that was, um, already scheduled. I, I thought she, uh, like called it in and set it up, so yeah, it's news to me.
[03:19:43] Speaker 9: Okay. Um, so would it, would it have been Lindsay who would make those kinds of appointments, the physicals and all of that?
[03:19:50] Speaker 10: Yeah. She usually handled, handled that, yeah.
[03:19:52] Speaker 9: Okay. And, um, going to Tuesday, January 24th, 2023, were you working that day?
[03:20:01] Speaker 10: I'm sorry, you said on the 24th?
[03:20:04] Speaker 9: Yes. Tuesday the 24th. Yeah. Um, that morning, um, was Cora's doctor's appointment at 8:00 AM? Yeah. And who took her to the doctor's appointment?
[03:20:14] Speaker 10: Lindsay.
[03:20:15] Speaker 9: And did anyone have to go with her or did she drive herself and Cora there?
[03:20:19] Speaker 10: It was just Lindsay and Cora.
[03:20:21] Speaker 9: And, um, you were home with the boys, is that right? Yeah. And while you're, um, with the boys, um, and Lindsay's with Cora at the doctor's, are you sending text messages and photos, um, back and forth?
[03:20:35] Speaker 10: Yeah.
[03:20:36] Speaker 9: Um, and, um, why did you send a photo of Dawson, uh, to Lindsay that morning?
[03:20:42] Speaker 10: Because he dressed himself completely for the first time.
[03:20:46] Speaker 9: And, um, he was excited about that? Yeah. And did she respond back with a photo of Cora? Yeah.
[03:20:58] Speaker 10: Are these the photos you sent back and forth?
[03:20:59] Speaker ?: Yeah.
[03:21:00] Speaker 9: I could have the photo of Dawson as the next exhibit and the photo of Cora as the following. All right.
[03:21:15] Speaker ?: They may be admitted.
[03:21:15] Speaker 2: All right.
[03:21:16] Speaker ?: They may be admitted. All right.
[03:21:18] Speaker 9: 21 and 22 so far. Publishing these. Exhibit 21 and Exhibit 22. And while you were texting with Lindsay back and forth, were you able to understand her text messages? Yeah. Did she seem to understand yours in response? Yes. Did she return home? Yes. And do you recall around what time she got home that morning? 830. And once she got home, what did you do? I think I got ready for work. And while you were downstairs working in your office, do you
[03:22:27] Speaker 10: know what Lindsay and the kids were doing? They built a snowman and they did some art projects.
[03:22:34] Speaker 9: And how did you know this was happening? She texted me a picture. So Lindsay was continuing to text you and send you photographs throughout that day? Yeah. And I went up to say hi at
[03:22:44] Speaker 10: one point. Okay.
[03:22:45] Speaker 9: First, I just want to show you the text messages back and forth. The text being on the right-hand side. If you want to look through there and just see if you recognize the messages going back and forth between you and Lindsay that morning.
[03:23:16] Speaker 10: All right. This is an activity sensor. Excuse me? I think this is something else.
[03:23:28] Speaker 9: So starting at 7:00 a.m. on the 24th. And we go to 8:17 a.m. This is the photo you sent of Dawson. And then the replies going to 8:18 a.m. is this the reply from Lindsay? And then throughout the day, just messages back and forth. Up to the point. Page 940. Where Lindsay's sending you the photos of the kids in the snow. Is that correct? Yeah. Okay. We could have the text messages marked as the next exhibit. Sorry. That may be admitted?
[03:24:22] Speaker ?: Yeah. Exhibit 24.
[03:24:25] Speaker 7: Exhibit 24.
[03:24:27] Speaker ?: Exhibit 24. Okay. Is this one of the photos you sent? Yeah. We could have the photograph marked as the next exhibit. That may be admitted. Exhibit 24. Exhibit 24. Exhibit 24. Exhibit 24. Exhibit 24. Exhibit 24. Exhibit 24. Exhibit 24. Exhibit 24. Exhibit 24.
[03:24:39] Speaker 11: Exhibit 24. Exhibit 24. Exhibit 24.
[03:24:42] Speaker ?: Exhibit 24.
[03:24:42] Speaker 2: Exhibit 24.
[03:24:43] Speaker ?: Exhibit 24. Exhibit 24. Exhibit 24.
[03:24:45] Speaker 1: Exhibit 24.
[03:24:46] Speaker 7: Exhibit 24.
[03:24:49] Speaker 9: Exhibit 24. How often do you think you, or do you remember going upstairs that day to interact with Lindsay and the kids?
[03:25:00] Speaker 10: Um, once or twice. It was a busier day than usual.
[03:25:07] Speaker 9: And, um, when you did come up to interact with them, how was Lindsay's mood?
[03:25:16] Speaker 10: She seemed happy.
[03:25:17] Speaker 9: Happy? And how could you tell that? What was she doing?
[03:25:21] Speaker 10: Uh, she was playing with the kids, and, um, she seemed in a good mood.
[03:25:28] Speaker 9: At any point during that day when you came up or while she's texting you, did she tell you she was having suicidal thoughts? No. Did she tell you she was having thoughts of harming the kids?
[03:25:39] Speaker 10: No.
[03:25:40] Speaker 9: Did she ask for help or anything that caused concern? No.
[03:25:45] Speaker 10: She was having one of her best days.
[03:25:47] Speaker 9: One of her best days? I want to direct your attention to 4:53 PM that day. Did you receive a text from Lindsay, um, about dinner?
[03:26:03] Speaker 10: Yeah.
[03:26:04] Speaker 9: And do you recall what it said?
[03:26:06] Speaker 10: Something along the lines of, do you want to get takeout? I haven't planned anything.
[03:26:09] Speaker 9: Um, do you recall it saying, any chance you want to do takeout from 3V? I didn't cook anything. It's been a long day. Yep. Had you been to 3V restaurant previously? Yep. Um, alone or with the family?
[03:26:27] Speaker 10: With the family.
[03:26:28] Speaker 9: And approximately how many times had you been there to eat?
[03:26:31] Speaker 10: Probably three times.
[03:26:33] Speaker 9: And, um, so you, you had all gotten in the car and driven from your home, um, to 3V restaurant in Plymouth approximately three times?
[03:26:44] Speaker 10: Yeah. Sometimes we were already out somewhere, but yeah.
[03:26:47] Speaker 9: Okay. But been there three times. Yeah. Had you ever done takeout from there before?
[03:26:52] Speaker ?: No.
[03:26:53] Speaker 9: Where would you typically do takeout, um, when you were going to do takeout at home?
[03:26:57] Speaker 10: Uh, the Chestnut Grill. Um, I think another one was West End Grill.
[03:27:03] Speaker 9: Were those closer than 3V to your home? Yeah. So, Lindsey suggested 3V and you agreed, is that correct?
[03:27:18] Speaker ?: Yep.
[03:27:19] Speaker 9: Okay. Did she send you another text at 4:56 PM asking you to take a look at the menu?
[03:27:25] Speaker 10: Yeah.
[03:27:26] Speaker 9: And did you send a text at 5:06 PM, um, about Callan? Yeah.
[03:27:35] Speaker 10: I asked if he had taken a nap.
[03:27:37] Speaker 9: And did she respond?
[03:27:39] Speaker 10: Yeah.
[03:27:40] Speaker 9: And what was her response?
[03:27:41] Speaker 10: Uh, that it was a shorter nap and he was awake. Okay.
[03:27:45] Speaker 9: And at that time, um, did you also ask, send a separate test, text asking what she was getting at 3V? Yeah. And what was her response?
[03:27:54] Speaker 10: I don't remember what she ordered.
[03:27:57] Speaker 9: Do you recall, um, a Mediterranean Power Bowl? Yeah, that sounds right. And, um, did she ask you, um, what you were getting? Yeah. And at 5:08 PM, did you respond? Yeah. And what, what did you tell her? I forget what it was. Do you recall, um, scallop and pork belly risotto? Yeah. That was it? Yeah. Yeah. Who called in the order to 3V? Lindsey. Once the order was placed, what did you do?
[03:28:36] Speaker 10: Uh, I came upstairs. I, um, took Callan for a minute and I rocked him by my knees, kissed Cora on the head, and, um, I still be right back.
[03:28:48] Speaker 9: And what was Dawson doing when you were leaving?
[03:28:51] Speaker 10: He was eating chicken nuggets on the couch.
[03:28:54] Speaker 9: And do you recall if he was using a bowl or a plate? It was a bowl.
[03:29:24] Speaker ?: Okay. Okay. Do you remember, um, what the defendants did? Well, first of all, where was the defendant seated? Um, when you left the house or was she seated? She's standing. And where was she? She's standing. And where was she? In the doorway of the living room. And where was she? In the doorway of the living room. And, um, in the doorway of the living room. And, um, in the doorway of the living room. And, um, where was the defendant seated, um, when you left the house or was she seated? She's standing. And where was she? In the doorway of the living room. And, um, was that the doorway by the front door or the doorway by the basement door?
[03:29:43] Speaker 9: Do you remember what the defendant's—well, first of all, where was the defendant seated when you left the house, or was she seated?
[03:29:57] Speaker 10: She was standing. And where was she? In the doorway of the living room.
[03:30:03] Speaker 9: And was that the doorway by the front door or the doorway by the basement door?
[03:30:09] Speaker 10: It was the doorway by the basement door.
[03:30:11] Speaker 9: And did she have Callan or where was Callan?
[03:30:14] Speaker 10: She had Callan.
[03:30:15] Speaker 9: Okay. And what was her demeanor?
[03:30:18] Speaker 10: Normal.
[03:30:20] Speaker 2: Councilor, can I see both sidebar here?
[03:30:41] Speaker ?: Thank you.
[03:31:11] Speaker 2: We're going to break at this point for the day, all right? So what we're going to do is, I'm going to excuse you till Wednesday morning, all right? So you don't have to come in here tomorrow. Just remind you, I'm going to ask those same questions I asked you this morning, whether or not you did any research or you saw anything that would affect your ability to remain fair and impartial. You have to keep still keep an open mind. So don't do any research. I don't talk about this case with anyone. I don't go online, look at anything. Don't take any road trips. And we will see you on Wednesday morning. Same with the same instructions that you got from the officers in regards to that. So, again, thank you so much for your time and your effort, and I'll see you on Wednesday.
[03:32:25] Speaker 1: All right.
[03:32:49] Speaker 2: I'm not sure if you want to discuss the view. Oh, yeah, let me see you, council, over here.
[03:33:39] Speaker ?: I'm not sure if you want to discuss the view on Wednesday morning, but I'll see you on Wednesday morning. I'm not sure if you want to discuss the view on Wednesday morning, but I'm not sure if you want to discuss the view on Wednesday morning, but I'm not sure if you want to discuss the view on Wednesday morning, but I'm not sure if you want to discuss the view on Wednesday morning. I'm not sure if you want to discuss the view on Wednesday morning, but I'm not sure if you want to discuss the view on Wednesday morning, but I'm not sure if you want to discuss the view on Wednesday morning. I'm not sure if you want to discuss the view on Wednesday morning, but I'm not sure if you want to discuss the view on Wednesday morning. I'm not sure if you want to discuss the view on Wednesday morning, but I'm not sure if you want to discuss the view on Wednesday morning, but I'm not sure if you want to discuss the view on Wednesday morning, but I'm not sure if you want to discuss the view on Wednesday morning. I'm not sure if you want to discuss the view on Wednesday morning, but I'm not sure if you want to discuss the view on Wednesday morning, but I'm not sure if you want to discuss the view on Wednesday morning, but I'm not sure if you want to discuss the view on Wednesday morning, but I'm not sure if you want to discuss the view on Wednesday morning, but I'm not sure if you want to discuss the view on Wednesday morning, but I'm not sure if you want to discuss the view on Wednesday morning, but I'm not sure if you want to discuss the view on Wednesday morning, but I'm not sure if you want to discuss the view on Wednesday morning, but I'm not sure if you want to discuss the view on Wednesday morning. I'm not sure if you want to discuss the view on Wednesday morning, but I'm not sure if you want to discuss the view on Wednesday morning, but I'm not sure if you want to discuss the view on Wednesday morning, but I'm not sure if you want to discuss the view on Wednesday morning, but I'm not sure if you want to discuss the view on Wednesday morning, but I'm not sure if you want to discuss the view on Wednesday morning, but I'm not sure if you want to discuss the view on Wednesday morning, but I'm not sure if you want to discuss the view on Wednesday morning, but I'm not sure if you want to discuss the view on Wednesday morning. Thank you.
[03:35:34] Speaker 2: Thank you. Thank you.
[03:36:34] Speaker ?: Thank you.