About this transcript: This is a full AI-generated transcript of Lindsay Clancy murder trial — Court proceedings and testimony for afternoon session of Day 2 from NBC Connecticut, published July 30, 2026. The transcript contains 12,756 words with timestamps and was generated using Whisper AI.
"Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Clancy, you know, and if I ask a question, and it's difficult, but if you need a break, I'm sure that, you know, we'll certainly give you a break. If I push too high, just let me know. Yeah, appreciate it. Okay, so again, just..."
[00:00:00] Speaker ?: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
[00:02:00] Speaker 1: Thank you.
[00:02:30] Speaker 2: Mr. Clancy, you know, and if I ask a question, and it's difficult, but if you need a break, I'm sure that, you know, we'll certainly give you a break.
[00:02:41] Speaker ?: If I push too high, just let me know. Yeah, appreciate it.
[00:02:48] Speaker 2: Okay, so again, just representative of the Facebook postings that Lindsay would post as the mother of your children. This, for example, would be July of 2018.
[00:03:02] Speaker 3: Yep.
[00:03:02] Speaker 2: Can you tell the jurors who that would be?
[00:03:04] Speaker 3: That's Cora.
[00:03:13] Speaker 2: Thinking forward, say, June of 2021. Can you tell us who that?
[00:03:25] Speaker 3: That's Cora and Dawson. That's us with Cora and Dawson. Okay.
[00:03:32] Speaker 2: Again, the end of July, 2021.
[00:03:36] Speaker 3: That's us with Cora and Dawson.
[00:03:42] Speaker 2: August, again, again, of 21.
[00:04:02] Speaker 3: It's Cora and Dawson.
[00:04:03] Speaker 2: It's Cora and Dawson. Is that first day of preschool?
[00:04:19] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[00:04:27] Speaker 2: September of 21.
[00:04:32] Speaker 3: That's Lindsay and Cora.
[00:04:34] Speaker 2: Was that some kind of, like, a family fun day, if you recall, where there was, like, lots of things for kids to get in?
[00:04:40] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[00:04:46] Speaker 2: End of September, 21.
[00:04:53] Speaker 3: No, that's Dawson.
[00:04:55] Speaker 2: Dawson. Okay. September of 21. And Callan was born when?
[00:05:00] Speaker 3: May 2022.
[00:05:01] Speaker ?: Okay.
[00:05:02] Speaker 2: And Christmas Eve, December 24th of 2021.
[00:05:09] Speaker 3: That's Cora's birthday.
[00:05:10] Speaker 2: Okay. And that's her birthday party that year?
[00:05:13] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[00:05:13] Speaker 2: Now, that's 2021, right?
[00:05:16] Speaker 3: Correct.
[00:05:17] Speaker 2: Fast forward one year, and that would be December Christmas of 2022, right?
[00:05:24] Speaker 3: Right.
[00:05:25] Speaker 2: And was that when you guys had the birthday party for Cora at the trampolines?
[00:05:30] Speaker 3: No.
[00:05:31] Speaker 2: When was that?
[00:05:32] Speaker 3: I believe it was January 7th.
[00:05:34] Speaker 2: Okay. But that would have been for that particular birthday, right?
[00:05:38] Speaker 3: That was for the birthday with friends, because most people weren't available on Christmas Eve. Christmas Eve, right.
[00:05:43] Speaker 2: And then, and then, and then, and then, again, September 1st of 22, remember when that was taken?
[00:05:56] Speaker 3: Yeah, that's with Callan and Dawson.
[00:05:59] Speaker 2: And was that your yard?
[00:06:00] Speaker 3: That's in the backyard.
[00:06:01] Speaker 2: Backyard.
[00:06:02] Speaker ?: Okay.
[00:06:03] Speaker 2: This would have been September of 22, obviously right before 22, right?
[00:06:08] Speaker 3: Right.
[00:06:14] Speaker 2: And, again, for this one here, July of 22, can you tell them, Tira's, you guys had a pretty good summer that year?
[00:06:23] Speaker 3: It was a good summer, yeah. That was on Cape Cod.
[00:06:26] Speaker 2: This picture was on Cape Cod?
[00:06:28] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[00:06:32] Speaker 2: A couple of points that I wanted to raise, sir, with you. We have an email sent from your, is it Surface Pro, is that what it's called?
[00:06:56] Speaker 3: That was my laptop, yeah.
[00:07:11] Speaker 2: I'm going to approach you, sir, and ask if you can identify this as being an email that you sent.
[00:07:22] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[00:07:22] Speaker ?: Okay.
[00:07:23] Speaker 2: Cut it off of that, you're on.
[00:07:25] Speaker 4: Any objection?
[00:07:27] Speaker 5: I'd just like to know the purpose of- Purpose? Yes. I'd say the purpose.
[00:07:31] Speaker 4: No.
[00:07:32] Speaker 5: You should approach sidebar.
[00:07:33] Speaker 4: Sure. Yeah.
[00:07:41] Speaker ?: Yeah.
[00:08:11] Speaker 4: No objection, Your Honor. Okay, thank you. That may be admitted.
[00:08:41] Speaker ?: I'm sorry, I'll get on with the video.
[00:09:05] Speaker 2: Well, while we're waiting for the copy, let me just move on to something else. Do you recall yesterday, the district attorney was asking you a question or stated to you that on December 2nd of 2022, that you and your wife went to a fancy hotel in Boston and she had a massage and you both had a big dinner. Do you recall her asking you that question?
[00:09:28] Speaker ?: Yeah.
[00:09:29] Speaker 2: And in fact, would you agree, sir, that you did not, in fact, go to a fancy hotel on December 2nd of 22, being a Saturday night before your anniversary of the 3rd, you stayed at home, didn't you?
[00:09:41] Speaker 3: We did. We stayed at home.
[00:09:43] Speaker 2: And when you were asked that question by the VA, she wanted the inference to be that Lindsay Clancy in December of 22 was so relaxed that she wanted to have a massage and have a big dinner in a hotel. In fact, she was in a bed, in her bedroom that night, wasn't she? Objection.
[00:09:59] Speaker 4: Sustained. If you could rephrase that.
[00:10:03] Speaker 2: I'm approaching you with what it appears to be from one of the photographs that the district attorney had showed you yesterday with her in a mask and, I believe, the dressing and the mask, right? And then, basically.
[00:10:33] Speaker ?: Yep.
[00:10:37] Speaker 2: Now, that photograph, sir, was actually preserved, if you will, on the laptop pro computer. Isn't that right? Did she send that to you?
[00:10:53] Speaker 3: She sent it to my computer.
[00:10:55] Speaker 2: Okay.
[00:10:56] Speaker 3: I don't know.
[00:10:57] Speaker 2: And where was she? Do you remember when that picture was taken? I didn't see it. That's what the photograph was.
[00:11:04] Speaker 3: It looks like they're at the doctor.
[00:11:06] Speaker 2: At the doctor's office.
[00:11:07] Speaker ?: Okay.
[00:11:09] Speaker 2: And can you tell me the date that that picture, right here in the corner of the top, what date was that picture taken on the computer?
[00:11:20] Speaker 3: It's December 2nd.
[00:11:21] Speaker 2: The same date that we're talking about, correct? Correct. And what time was the picture sent?
[00:11:29] Speaker 3: It's 12:45 p.m.
[00:11:30] Speaker 2: So, when you're dealing with these things on the computers, it's a little hard sometimes to understand what they're depicting. I'm having to add time over there. All right. Right there. You see that there? That's the date that we're talking about, right?
[00:11:59] Speaker 3: Right, just to clarify though, it looks like that was on an iPhone.
[00:12:04] Speaker 2: Oh, I'm sorry, iPhone. Okay, it was sent to you though? Correct. And it was on December 2nd, the date that the DA was suggesting you were in Boston having massages and dinner, right? Rejection, that was December 3rd.
[00:12:16] Speaker 5: All right, if you can answer that.
[00:12:18] Speaker 2: Do you recall, sir, that she also sent me the same day for taking a picture of what appears to be Cora's Christmas list, wish list. Is that what that is?
[00:12:29] Speaker ?: Yeah.
[00:12:29] Speaker 2: And if you look at the record on that, that was sent to you the same day for taking a picture of what appears to be Cora's Christmas list, wish list, is that what that is? Yeah. Okay. And if you look at the record on that, that was sent to you the same day for taking a picture of what appears to be Cora's Christmas list, wish list, is that what that is? Yeah. And if you look at the record on that, that was sent to you the same day for taking a picture of what appears to be Cora's Christmas list, wish list, is that what that is?
[00:12:53] Speaker ?: Yeah. Okay. And if you look at the record on that, that was sent to you the same day for taking a picture of what appears to be Cora's Christmas list, is that what that is? Yeah. Yes, you can read that.
[00:13:02] Speaker 3: It's December 2nd at 6:13 PM. 6:13 PM.
[00:13:07] Speaker 2: And then finally, if you look at the metadata that is apparently buried in the photograph, it gives latitude and longitude of where the photograph was taken. Is that right? Is that right? Are you familiar with metadata? I would imagine. The way you can't do this.
[00:13:31] Speaker ?: Use the tape. Use the tape. Use the tape. Use the tape.
[00:13:35] Speaker 3: The tape on the thing tells you where to put the video. Oh.
[00:13:38] Speaker ?: Thank you.
[00:13:40] Speaker 3: Yeah, that's our address.
[00:13:42] Speaker 2: Okay. And that would be the metadata with the latitude and the longitude and shows you where these photos were taken, correct?
[00:13:49] Speaker 4: Correct.
[00:13:50] Speaker 2: How about the needs, Your Honor?
[00:13:52] Speaker 4: So, I think we had exhibit 76, they're making a copy of that. Do you want to mark that? I don't know if we marked that yet. That was the earlier one, just so everybody could keep this straight. And this latest email would be exhibit 77?
[00:14:13] Speaker ?: That would be the letter, the email. The one that was just copied. Yeah, the email right here. Yes.
[00:14:17] Speaker 2: Exhibit 76 on 77. Okay.
[00:14:19] Speaker ?: Thank you.
[00:14:20] Speaker 2: No, sir. Exhibit 76.
[00:14:22] Speaker 5: Is it, is an email from you to, we will, uh, delete the, uh. No, sir, exhibit 76 is an email from you to, we will, uh, delete the, uh.
[00:14:40] Speaker 2: People that are on the email if I know you are, as we mark it as an exhibit. Uh, let me approach you. Does it indicate the date and the time at the very top that you sent that email to your staff members? It does.
[00:15:10] Speaker 3: Yep.
[00:15:11] Speaker 2: Call the jury is what the date was.
[00:15:13] Speaker 3: Uh, it's January 24th at 5:24.
[00:15:17] Speaker 2: And that was sent from your, your Surface Pro? Uh, I don't know, actually.
[00:15:22] Speaker 3: It could have been sent from my iPhone. Okay.
[00:15:24] Speaker 4: That would be exhibit, exhibit 76.
[00:15:29] Speaker 2: Now, when was Callan born?
[00:15:44] Speaker 3: May 26, 2022.
[00:15:46] Speaker 2: My memory serves that it was a good birth. It was not easy birth, but I mean, there were no complications. There were no complications. And were both of you very happy with Callan being born healthy? Yeah.
[00:15:57] Speaker 3: Yeah, we felt very lucky.
[00:15:58] Speaker 2: And then in that summer of 22, you had, you had one of the best summers that you've had, right? Yeah. Yeah. What happened in September, October of 2022?
[00:16:13] Speaker 3: Um, Lindsay's mental health started to deteriorate.
[00:16:17] Speaker ?: Okay.
[00:16:18] Speaker 2: And when you say that, sir, what is it that you as your husband observed?
[00:16:22] Speaker 3: Just increased stress and anxiety.
[00:16:25] Speaker 2: And did she, as a result of that, go to see or reach out for help to see someone?
[00:16:32] Speaker 3: Yes.
[00:16:33] Speaker 2: And who was that?
[00:16:34] Speaker 3: I believe it was Jennifer Tufts.
[00:16:36] Speaker 2: Now, Jennifer Tufts is a psychiatrist? Yeah. And where was, where was she located?
[00:16:43] Speaker 3: I never went to her office, um, somewhere on the South Shore.
[00:16:48] Speaker 2: Um, do you remember when Lindsay went to see Jennifer Tufts?
[00:16:53] Speaker 3: I don't remember the exact date. I think it was sometime in September. I wasn't really involved at the beginning of Jennifer Tufts. Of course.
[00:17:08] Speaker 2: Do you recall that the difficulties or the troubles, so to speak, began in, towards the end of September into October of '22?
[00:17:22] Speaker 3: Yeah. It was pretty gradual.
[00:17:24] Speaker ?: Okay.
[00:17:25] Speaker 2: But do you remember when the DA asked you yesterday whether or not, um, you used your computer to Google, uh, suicide in, I think it was August of '22. Do you remember her asking you that question? Yes. And do you remember your response?
[00:17:43] Speaker 3: Um, no, honestly.
[00:17:48] Speaker 2: You didn't Google that, did you?
[00:17:50] Speaker 3: I don't think I did, no. No.
[00:17:52] Speaker 2: But I'm going to show you, sir, a, uh, web history of your computer. Have in mind that the question was asked of you as to whether or not, in August of '22, you Googled suicide, you responded no, right?
[00:18:08] Speaker 3: Correct.
[00:18:09] Speaker 2: The inference being, I guess, that back in August of '22, she wouldn't have moved, apparently, right? Sure. You know a guy named Tim Hall? I think you mean Tom Hall?
[00:18:18] Speaker ?: Yeah, Tom Hall, I apologize.
[00:18:19] Speaker 3: Who's Tom Hall? He's a, um, musical artist.
[00:18:21] Speaker 2: He's a what artist? Like a musical, like a country artist. Country?
[00:18:24] Speaker 3: Is he like a guitar playing guy or a singer? Yeah, was.
[00:18:26] Speaker 2: When you say was, what happened to him? He committed suicide. And I'm going to show you, sir, your Surface Pro records back in August of '22. Do you recall Googling the name Tom Hall so you could access one of his new albums or new records?
[00:19:01] Speaker 3: Um, I, I do remember briefly listening to Tom Hall's music. Okay.
[00:19:05] Speaker 2: Now you've never seen, I haven't, you haven't seen this document before, correct? Correct.
[00:19:10] Speaker 3: All right.
[00:19:11] Speaker 2: And this would be, I'm sure you're probably familiar with it. Uh, when you get a phone up, uh, computer records dump, you get a print out of all the sites that somebody would go on Google, Wikipedia, things like that.
[00:19:23] Speaker 3: Right.
[00:19:24] Speaker 2: If you can look to the right. Yep. Down a little bit. And you see, I think it says Tom Hall.
[00:19:30] Speaker ?: Yeah.
[00:19:31] Speaker 2: What does it say on Tom Hall?
[00:19:33] Speaker 3: It says his Wikipedia page. Yep.
[00:19:39] Speaker ?: Let me see here.
[00:19:41] Speaker 2: So, here, we've got... So that shows you, when somebody Googles, and then it goes Wikipedia, and you see where up above it says suicide methods?
[00:20:16] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[00:20:17] Speaker 2: Now you didn't, as you said to the DA, you didn't Google suicide methods, right?
[00:20:21] Speaker 3: I didn't Google suicide methods, no.
[00:20:23] Speaker 2: But in fact, sir, when you Googled Tom Hall, it took you to the Wikipedia page and it said that he died, right? He did. Yeah. And then you clicked on the Wikipedia page and it went into a hyperlink. You know what a hyperlink is? I imagine. Yeah. Hyperlink.
[00:20:39] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[00:20:40] Speaker 2: What is a hyperlink? Just so I know.
[00:20:42] Speaker 3: So like in Wikipedia, it would be a word that's highlighted in blue and it goes to a website. Okay.
[00:20:49] Speaker 2: So, if I suggest to you, sir, that as you move down on your searches that afternoon, that you were looking at Tom Hall, that it brought you to ways to commit suicide. Suicide, Tom Hall, Google search again, Tom Hall, all on that date at the same time. And you were just looking to see about the guy because he killed himself, right?
[00:21:18] Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so. Okay.
[00:21:20] Speaker 2: Yeah.
[00:21:21] Speaker 3: Any objection?
[00:21:22] Speaker 5: Can I just see the packet? Oh, yeah.
[00:21:25] Speaker 2: Again, Your Honor, I got that discovery from the DA, so that's...
[00:21:32] Speaker 5: Well, it's an email from his expert about us.
[00:21:35] Speaker 4: Just take a look at it and we'll kind of go from there. Well, I'll see.
[00:22:07] Speaker 2: While she's looking at that, I just asked, what is the URL? What does that mean? Hold on a second. She gets a chance to finish.
[00:22:18] Speaker 5: I guess I would object.
[00:22:19] Speaker 4: If I could see, council.
[00:22:37] Speaker ?: I guess, I would have to go from there. I guess, I would have to go from there. I guess, I would have to go from there. I guess, I would have to go from there. I guess, I would have to go from there. I guess, I would have to go from there. I guess, I would have to go from there. I guess, I would have to go from there. I guess, I would have to go from there. I guess, I would have to go from there. I guess, I would have to go from there. I guess, I would have to go from there. I guess, I would have to go from there. I guess, I would have to go from there. I guess, I would have to go from there. I guess, I would have to go from there. I guess, I would have to go from there. I guess, I would have to go from there. I guess, I would have to go from there. I guess, I would have to go from there. I guess, I would have to go from there. I guess, I would have to go from there. I guess, I would have to go from there. I guess, I would have to go from there. I guess, I would have to go from there. I guess, I would have to go from there. I guess, I would have to go from there. I guess, I would have to go from there. I guess, I would have to go from there. I guess, I would have to go from there. I guess, I would have to go from there. I guess, I would have to go from there. I guess, I would have to go from there. I guess, I would have to go from there. I guess, I would have to go from there. I guess, I would have to go from there. I would have to go from there. I would have to go from there. I would have to go from there. I would have to go from there. I would have to go from there. I would have to go from there. I would have to go from there. I would have to go from there. I would have to go from there. I would have to go from there. I would have to go from there. I would have to go from there. I would have to go from there. I would have to go from there. I would have to go from there. I would have to go from there.
[00:23:32] Speaker 2: I would have to go from there. So while that's being marked Exhibit E for ID, basically that would at least refresh your memory, sir. In fact, inadvertently that you touched the Wikipedia thing for suicide, but it was for Tom Hall, the singer, right? It sounds like that was the case. Okay. Do you recall what medication Lindsay was put on by Dr. Tufts?
[00:24:23] Speaker 3: She started with Zoloft.
[00:24:25] Speaker 2: Now, counsel had asked you about whether or not Lindsay was on Zoloft or any SSRI antidepressant medication in the past. Do you remember that question? Yeah. Do you remember her asking about that you were having a conversation with her and she said that she was going on Zoloft and that she had already been to Tufts? Was it Tufts that she got the script from? Correct. Okay. She told you that, right? Yeah. She didn't hide that from you, right? No. And it was, you were at a wedding. Is that right? You were walking down the street, the two of you together, like at the end of the night. She basically told you that she had to use the meds.
[00:25:07] Speaker 3: It was earlier in the day, it was before the wedding, but yeah.
[00:25:10] Speaker 2: Okay. And do you recall how, to your observation, how dedicated was she to taking her medications as instructed by the numerous doctors that she ultimately saw?
[00:25:26] Speaker 3: She always took them as instructed.
[00:25:31] Speaker 2: Do you remember, did she in fact have a diary that she kept of the milligrams, the type of medication, the date that she took the medication, and what, if any, reactions that she had to it? Do you recall that?
[00:25:53] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[00:25:54] Speaker 2: And do you remember where that was kept? Did she keep it in any particular place?
[00:25:58] Speaker 3: I think she kept it in the kitchen. In the kitchen.
[00:26:00] Speaker 2: So I'm going to show you a photograph that the state police took in your house. Is this a fair and accurate depiction of your kitchen? Yeah. So that kind of shows a bunch of books that are in a cabinet or something, right? Right. I'm going to show you this enlarged spine, if you will, of a book. Can I ask if you ever saw that before?
[00:26:46] Speaker 3: I don't recall seeing this.
[00:26:48] Speaker 2: Would you agree, sir, that this book is, in fact, the same book, the same coloring that was in the bunch of books in your kitchen?
[00:27:00] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[00:27:01] Speaker 2: And on this book, you see what the caption of the book is.
[00:27:18] Speaker 3: Yeah, it says good moms have scary thoughts.
[00:27:23] Speaker 2: And I'm going to approach you with this document, sir, which would be a number of pages from the book, the cover of the book, and the inside of the book. It just started. You've never seen that before? I don't recall seeing this.
[00:27:43] Speaker 3: Okay.
[00:27:44] Speaker 2: So, with that I understand, Your Honor, I will not offer this at this time.
[00:28:03] Speaker 4: Hold on. Councilor Coma, if you could, Ms. Reagan, if you could show what it is that you're doing.
[00:28:09] Speaker 5: I'm sorry, you said you're not offering it?
[00:28:11] Speaker 2: Well, they don't have the foundation. Okay.
[00:28:13] Speaker 5: All right.
[00:28:14] Speaker 2: Any objection?
[00:28:16] Speaker 4: No.
[00:28:17] Speaker 5: Okay.
[00:28:18] Speaker 4: So, can I put it in?
[00:28:21] Speaker 2: Yes. Okay, great. Thank you.
[00:28:24] Speaker 5: No objection to him not offering it.
[00:28:26] Speaker ?: All right.
[00:28:27] Speaker 5: If I could just look at it. Yeah.
[00:28:30] Speaker 4: Why don't I, why don't we do this? Why doesn't everybody come over here with that? We can kind of figure out where we go.
[00:29:02] Speaker 2: Thank you. A copy of the book.
[00:29:33] Speaker 5: No objection.
[00:29:34] Speaker 4: Okay, that may be a bit.
[00:29:52] Speaker 2: Who was the next doctor, if you recall, that Lindsay went to consult with?
[00:29:57] Speaker 3: Julie Paul.
[00:29:59] Speaker 2: And is this a doctor or a nurse practitioner?
[00:30:03] Speaker 3: I don't remember what's Julie Paul. It was very brief.
[00:30:07] Speaker 2: Now, is it fair to say that Julie Paul was at South Shore? Yeah, correct. And Julie Paul was a friend of your mother's. Is that right?
[00:30:18] Speaker 3: Yeah, I think they're acquaintances.
[00:30:20] Speaker 2: And your mother was a nurse also at South Shore Hospital?
[00:30:23] Speaker 3: In L&D, yeah.
[00:30:25] Speaker 2: L&D labor and women, same thing. Okay. And your mother was good enough to refer Lindsay to this person to consult with, right?
[00:30:34] Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think it was a formal referral. I think she just said this is a specialist that you might want to talk with.
[00:30:40] Speaker 2: All right. And did she go to see the specialist?
[00:30:43] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[00:30:44] Speaker 2: And did you go with her or was this a...
[00:30:46] Speaker 3: No, I never met Julie Paul.
[00:30:47] Speaker 2: I should drop myself up. Were these like in-person meetings or are they like, what do you call them, Zoom meetings?
[00:30:53] Speaker 3: Most of the meetings were Zoom. The only in-person that I'm aware of was with Rebecca Gelata.
[00:30:59] Speaker 2: Rebecca Gelata. Okay. And that was because you insisted on it, right?
[00:31:03] Speaker 3: I thought it was warranted at that time, yeah.
[00:31:06] Speaker 2: Right. Because you were pretty much at your wit's end with the 15-minute Zooms and you wanted to sit down eyeball to eyeball and talk to this person, right?
[00:31:15] Speaker 3: I hadn't attended any prior to that. I just wanted to get clarification. I wanted to see if we could get on the same page.
[00:31:23] Speaker 2: All right. So now, Lindsay's on Zoloft from Dr. Tufts, the psychiatrist, correct? Correct. And then that runs into when, when you guys, she goes to see Nurse Paul.
[00:31:41] Speaker 3: Can you clarify?
[00:31:42] Speaker 2: What was it?
[00:31:43] Speaker 3: Can you clarify what you're asking?
[00:31:45] Speaker 2: Yeah. What month? When was it that she saw Nurse Paul?
[00:31:49] Speaker 3: Maybe October, but I'm not sure.
[00:31:51] Speaker ?: Okay.
[00:31:51] Speaker 2: When she saw Nurse Paul, do you remember where she saw Nurse Paul or was it a video thing?
[00:31:56] Speaker 3: I don't know. I wasn't involved.
[00:31:58] Speaker 2: Okay. Did Nurse Paul prescribe medication to her? A lot if he knows. I don't know off the top of my head. All right. Do you recall whether or not, to your opinion, that she had any reactions to the Zoloft that she had been placed on by Dr. Tufts?
[00:32:21] Speaker 4: I don't know any observations that were made.
[00:32:24] Speaker 2: Right. So it's not guesswork. It's observations. Anything you saw and observed?
[00:32:30] Speaker 3: Yeah. It seemed to align with her insomnia symptoms.
[00:32:35] Speaker 2: Now, the insomnia, inability to sleep, was that a significant problem from your observations with her? Yeah, it was a huge problem. And when you say huge problem, was there one point when she was on medication from Tufts that, in fact, she had gone 48 hours, I think, without sleep?
[00:32:50] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[00:32:51] Speaker 2: And that was disturbing to her?
[00:32:54] Speaker 3: Yeah, and it was just hard to function. And how about you? Was it disturbing to you? I just wanted her to get sleep and feel better.
[00:33:01] Speaker 2: Now, during that period of time, she then went and saw the next doctor or nurse practitioner, which we talked about, which would be Nurse Practitioner Paul at South Shore, right? Right. Now, after seeing Dr. Nurse Practitioner Paul, if you remember, or no, did you observe? Did she seem to get better or did she seem to get worse?
[00:33:24] Speaker 3: It would be hard to say. It was, I think it was a week at most. So it's really hard to say in that short a time frame.
[00:33:34] Speaker 2: Sure. And when you say a week at most, you mean that that's like she was seeing Nurse Practitioner Paul for about a week?
[00:33:41] Speaker 3: Yeah, and I mean, she may have only seen her once. It was very brief, and then she got reassigned somewhere, so.
[00:33:48] Speaker 2: And the reason, if you know, that she got reassigned somewhere would be Dr. Nurse Practitioner Gelata, right?
[00:33:55] Speaker 3: Right.
[00:33:56] Speaker 2: Same practice, right? Right. And the reason was because Paul moved on to another job, right?
[00:34:04] Speaker 3: Right.
[00:34:04] Speaker 2: So Lindsay wasn't out doctor hunting, she was referred by the nurse practitioner that was referred to you guys by your mom because Paul was leaving, right?
[00:34:16] Speaker 3: Yeah, she just switched doctors in the same practice.
[00:34:18] Speaker 2: All right. Now, she sees Dr. Gelata, right? Right. Did Dr. Gelata, to your knowledge, put her on medication?
[00:34:27] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[00:34:28] Speaker 2: And what was the medication, if you know?
[00:34:31] Speaker 3: Mainly Seroquel and benzodiazepines, Ativan. No.
[00:34:39] Speaker 2: Benzodiazepines, they're addictive, right? Apparently.
[00:34:46] Speaker 3: Objection.
[00:34:49] Speaker 2: I'll allow it. And a benzo would be, for example, Ativan, correct?
[00:34:54] Speaker 3: Correct.
[00:34:55] Speaker 2: Now, Seroquel, she was placed on Seroquel as well, is that correct?
[00:35:01] Speaker 3: Right.
[00:35:01] Speaker 2: And to your observation, again, you're not a doctor, what you saw of your wife, was she affected positively or negatively by the Seroquel that she was on?
[00:35:13] Speaker 3: It appeared that she was affected very negatively, and she's reporting that she was getting worse on the Seroquel.
[00:35:21] Speaker 2: And do you know, did she report that to Dr. Gelata?
[00:35:26] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[00:35:28] Speaker 2: When she would consult with Dr. Gelata, prior to you actually going, do you know, were they all on video?
[00:35:37] Speaker 3: Yeah, they were all on Zoom.
[00:35:39] Speaker 2: Okay, do you have any opinion for the jury as to approximately how long these meetings on Zoom would be with the nurse practitioner? Probably around 20 minutes. At some point, do you recall that you went with Lindsay to see Dr. Gelata, is that right? Yes. And do you remember, if you remember, when that was? Early December. In early December of 2022, can you tell the jury from your observations, how did Lindsay appear? How was she acting? How was she faring?
[00:36:15] Speaker 3: She was extremely sleep-deprived and just highly anxious.
[00:36:22] Speaker 2: Was there a number of occasions that you would actually see her on the sofa rocking back and forth with her head under a pillow?
[00:36:30] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[00:36:31] Speaker 2: Did you report that and other symptoms to Dr. Gelata?
[00:36:35] Speaker 3: Lindsay did.
[00:36:36] Speaker 2: So when was it, if you recall, that you went and saw Dr. Gelata with your wife person to person?
[00:36:46] Speaker 3: When was it? Yep. Early December. I think it was December 6th.
[00:36:50] Speaker 2: And do you remember, you have a pretty good memory about this, do you remember what medication she was prescribed by Gelata?
[00:36:57] Speaker 3: Coming out of that meeting? Yep. Yeah, she increased the Seroquil significantly. And then she prescribed her Valium to help taper off of the benzos. Taper off the benzos? Yep.
[00:37:15] Speaker 2: To your knowledge, did Lindsay go to doctors to seek out benzodiazepines or drugs just because she was a drug addict?
[00:37:26] Speaker 3: No. No, Lindsay, I think, wanted to, she definitely didn't want to take any more benzodiazepines and definitely didn't want to take any more Seroquil. I think that it wasn't really a matter of trying to get off the medication. It was just trying to get on the right medication.
[00:37:42] Speaker 2: Okay. Let's say mid-December, what observations, if any, heading up towards Christmas, did you guys endure?
[00:37:53] Speaker 3: Um, she seemed to get worse. Um, the Seroquil was increased to 400 milligrams.
[00:37:58] Speaker 2: 400?
[00:37:59] Speaker 3: Yep.
[00:37:59] Speaker 2: By Dr. Gelata.
[00:38:01] Speaker 3: Yeah. And the idea behind that was it would help with sleep. Um, but she didn't get better. She, she got worse.
[00:38:11] Speaker 2: Do you recall that at one point she went to a place called Women's and, uh, Infants?
[00:38:22] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[00:38:22] Speaker 2: In Rhode Island.
[00:38:24] Speaker 3: Right.
[00:38:24] Speaker 2: Women and Infants Center for Women's Behavioral Health. Do you recall that? Do you remember when she actually went to Women's Behavioral Health?
[00:38:35] Speaker 3: Uh, sometime in mid-December. I don't know the exact date.
[00:38:38] Speaker 2: All right. So, if I suggest to you, sir, that I have certified copies of the Women and Infants, uh, medical records, uh, indicating that on December 20th of 2022, uh, that was the day that you dropped her off at, uh, Women. Does that refresh your memory?
[00:38:53] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[00:38:54] Speaker 2: Your Honor, I'd like to offer the certified copies of the Women and Infants Hospital records.
[00:38:59] Speaker 5: I would object we don't have a copy of those.
[00:39:02] Speaker 2: All right.
[00:39:03] Speaker 4: Um, you don't have any? Could I see everybody here?
[00:39:29] Speaker ?: I would object we don't have any? I would object we don't have any? I would object we don't have any? I would object we don't have any? I would object we don't have any? I would object we don't have any? I would object we don't have any? I would object we don't have any? I would object we don't have any? I would object we don't have any? I would object we don't have any? I would object we don't have any? I would object we don't have any? I would object we don't have any? I would object we don't have any? I would object we don't have any? I would object we don't have any? I would object we don't have any? I would object we don't have any? I would object we don't have any? I would object we don't have any? I would object we don't have any? I would object we don't have any? I would object we don't have any? I would object we don't have any? I would object we don't have any? I would object we don't have any? I would object we don't have any? I would object we don't have any? I would object we don't have any? I would object we don't have any? I would object we don't have any? I would object we don't have any? I would object we don't have any? I would object we don't have any? I would object we don't have any? I would object we don't have any? I would object we don't have any? I would object we don't have any? I would object we don't have any? I would object we don't have any?
[00:40:50] Speaker 2: And where did you go skiing?
[00:40:52] Speaker 3: What did you see?
[00:40:54] Speaker 2: At some point in the afternoon did you receive a phone call? Yeah. You're going to come to Lindsay?
[00:40:59] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[00:41:00] Speaker 2: And as a result of the phone call, what did you do?
[00:41:03] Speaker 3: She said that you need to come pick me up and the doctors here want to talk to you. Have you come in and talk for a bit?
[00:41:12] Speaker 2: Okay. Did you go and talk to them? Yeah. Do you remember who you talked to?
[00:41:16] Speaker 3: I don't remember their names.
[00:41:18] Speaker 2: Do you remember the conversation? Did you describe or indicate what her symptoms were at that point in December 20th of 2022?
[00:41:26] Speaker 3: Yeah, the conversation was they didn't. Objection? Yes.
[00:41:31] Speaker ?: All right.
[00:41:32] Speaker 3: Sustained at this time.
[00:41:35] Speaker 2: Did the people at women's and infants facility in Rhode Island prescribe any medication to your knowledge?
[00:41:44] Speaker 3: I don't think so.
[00:41:45] Speaker 2: Did they provide any counseling or anything?
[00:41:47] Speaker 3: I think they tried to, but they felt that it wasn't the right fit for Lindsay.
[00:41:54] Speaker 2: Do you recall that in fact it was because of the drugs they weren't sure what symptomology would be because of the drugs? Objection.
[00:42:03] Speaker 4: Sustained.
[00:42:04] Speaker 2: Do you recall whether or not the people at women and infants in Rhode Island reached out to Dr. Gelata?
[00:42:12] Speaker 3: I don't think so. Well, if he knows. I don't think they did, no.
[00:42:17] Speaker 2: And was it one day or half a day that she went to women and infants in Rhode Island? It was like half a day.
[00:42:25] Speaker 3: Half a day.
[00:42:26] Speaker 2: So after you pick her up and you bring her home, it's now you and the kids and Lindsay and it's days before Christmas, right?
[00:42:37] Speaker 3: Yeah, and her parents were there.
[00:42:40] Speaker 2: Why were her parents there?
[00:42:42] Speaker 3: They were visiting, trying to help out, and I took Dawson to watch. She said they stayed home with Cora and Kellen.
[00:42:50] Speaker 2: Now, during that time frame in December of '22, maybe a little bit before, maybe after Thanksgiving, did your mom and dad and Lindsay's parents come into your house and try to help out with the kids?
[00:43:07] Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it was separately, though.
[00:43:10] Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, it would be separate. I mean, what would they do?
[00:43:14] Speaker 3: Just be there, help out, play with them, get takeout, play Scrabble.
[00:43:23] Speaker 2: Did Lindsay's mother and father actually stay there and sleep in the basement for the time?
[00:43:29] Speaker 3: They did, yeah.
[00:43:31] Speaker 2: Were you aware personally, let me back up, you and Lindsay as husband and wife would in effect sleep in the same bedroom, is that correct? Yeah. There was an occasion, though, that she said to you about you go downstairs and then I think she ended up downstairs?
[00:43:46] Speaker 3: Yeah, for the purposes of her getting better sleep.
[00:43:49] Speaker 2: And for her purposes of getting better sleep, were you aware that on one occasion she used a gummy, a sleep aid gummy? Did you know that?
[00:44:03] Speaker 3: I don't recall that, but we did have them in the house.
[00:44:05] Speaker 2: Okay. Now, to your knowledge, was Lindsay a person that liked to smoke the weed and use the CBDs, oils and all that stuff? Or did she not imbibe them? No, she didn't smoke. So, you had these gummies in the house, sleep aid, right?
[00:44:23] Speaker 3: I mean, some people might call them a sleep aid. Okay.
[00:44:27] Speaker 2: Heading into the holidays of '22, do you recall where you spent Christmas?
[00:44:40] Speaker 3: I think it was at our house. We celebrated Cora's birthday. And then I think we actually went down to Wallingford, Connecticut to be with her parents after.
[00:44:51] Speaker 2: Her parents? Yeah. Okay. And then heading into January of '23, who did she then see for doctors or nurse practitioners, if you know?
[00:45:06] Speaker 3: After she got back from McLean?
[00:45:08] Speaker 2: Yes.
[00:45:09] Speaker 3: She switched back to Jennifer Tufts.
[00:45:12] Speaker 2: Now, before she switches back to Tufts in January, on New Year's of 2022, 2023, you guys drive to Boston, go to MGH, and ultimately she turns herself into McLean Hospital, right? Right.
[00:45:32] Speaker 3: Right.
[00:45:33] Speaker 2: Now, McLean Hospital is basically a locked ward facility, correct?
[00:45:37] Speaker 3: Correct.
[00:45:38] Speaker 2: Was she allowed to just wander around and leave the place whenever she wanted?
[00:45:42] Speaker 3: She couldn't leave. Couldn't leave? But inside, she could go to different areas.
[00:45:46] Speaker 2: Can you tell, Jerry, what her state of mind was as she went to McLean Hospital with her husband on New Year's '23, at that point?
[00:45:54] Speaker ?: She was scared.
[00:45:55] Speaker 3: She didn't want to go, but I think it was the second time we went to the ER, and I said, "You have to go."
[00:46:04] Speaker 2: Now, McLean Hospital, I know you visited with her, is that correct? Yeah. A district attorney asked you yesterday about the excellent care that she was provided with all these counselors and therapists, and you indicated that it was your understanding that she was playing with clay and coloring, right? Right. Can you describe for the jury what McLean was like to you as a husband visiting his wife? In other words, were there doctors? Were there nurses? Were there people in the hallways?
[00:46:32] Speaker 3: What I saw was, it looked like mainly nurses. It was the tail end of COVID, so they're mostly behind this plastic-covered area. And it could have been just the time of day that I visited, but people were hanging around, watching TV, playing with clay.
[00:46:54] Speaker 2: Do you know whether or not she saw a doctor or psychiatrist ultimately from McLean Hospital? I was not aware of that.
[00:47:03] Speaker 3: The only one I was aware of was the doctor on the second to last or final day.
[00:47:09] Speaker 2: And what was that, Dr. Goodhart? Yeah. And did you speak to Dr. Goodhart? I ended up calling her.
[00:47:16] Speaker 3: I wanted to see what her evaluation was. And so I gave her a call and we spoke and she said, you know, she's clearly depressed. Sustained.
[00:47:35] Speaker ?: Okay.
[00:47:36] Speaker 2: So you spoke to Dr. Goodhart. Yeah. Did Dr. Goodhart, to your knowledge, prescribe any medication?
[00:47:45] Speaker 3: I think she recommended medication. And then...
[00:47:49] Speaker 2: How many medications did she recommend?
[00:47:51] Speaker 3: I don't know if she recommended multiple. I want to say it was Cymbalta. Um, but she said, you know, check with your doctor and make a decision.
[00:48:04] Speaker 2: So when Lindsay left, it was because she wanted to leave one day early because of Cora's birthday. Is that right?
[00:48:11] Speaker 3: I didn't think it was, I don't think it was one day early. I think she had a five day stay, which at the time was my understanding was that was pretty standard. And, um, yeah, she did want to attend Cora's birthday.
[00:48:24] Speaker 2: So there's no doubt, sir, in your mind, that when she was discharged from McLean, that- That these, right? McLean? Yes. That when she was discharged from McLean Hospital, it was not against medical advice. The doctors gave her a bill of health and let it go with you, right?
[00:48:41] Speaker 4: Right.
[00:48:42] Speaker 2: Off of the McLean records, Your Honor.
[00:48:44] Speaker 4: Any objection? No.
[00:48:46] Speaker 2: Now, you know, when you go to the hospital and you get out of the hospital, they give you a bag and you've got medications and a little card and says, "Thank you for being here," stuff like that. Did you guys get anything from McLean at all?
[00:49:03] Speaker 3: I don't think so.
[00:49:05] Speaker 2: Did you get any recommendations other than the doctor suggesting that you might want to try Cymbalta? Did they give you a script?
[00:49:12] Speaker 3: Uh, I don't think so.
[00:49:14] Speaker 2: You know what Cymbalta was?
[00:49:16] Speaker ?: No.
[00:49:17] Speaker 2: You remember Dr. Goodhart telling Lindsey to Google it?
[00:49:21] Speaker 3: Uh, I think that's accurate.
[00:49:23] Speaker 2: Yeah. In fact, she Googled hundreds of times. Yeah. Medication, right? Yeah. So when you guys go home, and now it's January, obviously, you had the party for Cora, correct?
[00:49:39] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[00:49:40] Speaker 2: You guys had friends over, friends that you guys knew?
[00:49:44] Speaker 3: Friends came to the party, which was at a place in Plymouth.
[00:49:49] Speaker 2: Would you agree with me that Lindsey had a number of friends from actually grammar school through high school through college that she stayed in touch with over the years?
[00:49:58] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[00:49:59] Speaker 2: And you as well?
[00:50:00] Speaker 3: Yep.
[00:50:01] Speaker 2: Um, and they're good friends. Like you still would see them and you guys would do dinner and things of that nature, right? Yeah. Actually, one of your friends, I think it was one of your friends, it might have been one of her friends, actually named her in January or around that timeframe to be God, uh, mother, or take care of your child if anything bad happened to them and they were, they were dead, right? Yeah. Remember that?
[00:50:25] Speaker 3: I, my brain has been foggy for the last couple of years, but. Okay.
[00:50:29] Speaker 2: I understand. Yeah. Okay. Um, in January, as time went by, do you recall that she would actually continue to take notes of the medications that she was taking, right?
[00:50:47] Speaker 3: That sounds like something Lindsey would do.
[00:50:49] Speaker 2: I kept a diarrhea, a little log, right? Yep. I'm approaching you, sir, with this and asking if you can identify this. Anyway. Yes. Can you say yes and I'll put it on the little screen. What is it?
[00:51:04] Speaker 3: It's, um, the dosage of medication that she took. Mm-hmm. How she's feeling.
[00:51:17] Speaker 2: So this is kind of like a little medical diary that she was keeping. Yeah. For example, you know, here you see on that, five milligrams, Valium, 200, Seraquel, Slepwell, Horrible thoughts in the morning, right?
[00:51:30] Speaker 3: Yep.
[00:51:31] Speaker 2: And did she at some point, uh, I think the DA had asked you, I'm gonna offer this, if I may. Any objection?
[00:51:37] Speaker 4: No. That may be admitted. Eight.
[00:51:40] Speaker ?: Eight.
[00:51:41] Speaker 5: Eight. Thank you.
[00:51:51] Speaker 2: There was an occasion where she told you in the presence of her mother that she was having horrible thoughts, right? Right. And you told us about that yesterday. Um, and that took, it was quite an emotional thing for her to do that, right? Right. After that timeframe, um, you continued on, you were working in the basement, right? Yeah. I shouldn't say basement, it was a finished place, right? A finished basement, yeah. And that was where you worked on a regular basis, is that right? Yeah. Would that be a 40 hour week or longer?
[00:52:31] Speaker 3: It varied, but yeah, roughly 40 hours.
[00:52:34] Speaker 2: And I know it was maybe COVID, tail end of COVID, but one of the other reasons that you did that was so you could be home and help out. Is that right?
[00:52:42] Speaker 3: Yeah, I worked from home since 2018. Okay. Um, but yeah, I built an office down there.
[00:52:48] Speaker 2: So you were always there? Yeah. Not always, but you were down there when you would work?
[00:52:53] Speaker 3: When I wasn't traveling, yeah, I was there.
[00:52:55] Speaker 2: Okay. So when would you travel? Tell us about that.
[00:52:58] Speaker 3: Uh, I really didn't travel actually, um, much during COVID, just towards the end and once in November.
[00:53:06] Speaker 2: November of what year?
[00:53:07] Speaker 3: 2022.
[00:53:08] Speaker 2: November of 2022.
[00:53:10] Speaker 3: But before that I traveled extensively.
[00:53:12] Speaker 2: Let's look at November of 2022. November of 2022 is a month before she's telling you and her mother that she was having thoughts about hurting the children, right? Right. November of 2022 and you traveled. Where did you travel to?
[00:53:29] Speaker 3: New York.
[00:53:30] Speaker 2: And how long were you there, sir?
[00:53:32] Speaker 3: Um, two nights.
[00:53:35] Speaker 2: And who took care of the kids?
[00:53:38] Speaker 3: Uh, Lindsay.
[00:53:42] Speaker 2: Sorry?
[00:53:43] Speaker 3: Lindsay took care of the kids.
[00:53:44] Speaker 2: Lindsay. For two days, two nights, a month, and a week, or so, before she killed the children, she was home with the kids for two days. Is that right? Right. Fair to say that you also had your friends that you would do brunch with on occasion, Sundays or weeknights or whenever, guys night type thing? Yep. And you'd be out with your friends. If she wanted to kill the kids, she certainly could have done at that time when you're out, right?
[00:54:17] Speaker 3: In theory.
[00:54:19] Speaker 2: As opposed to sending you on a three minute trip to CVS and a nine minute trip to a restaurant. You were away for two days in November and on a number of occasions for brunch as well as skiing, right? You're a pretty active guy. Yeah. I'm going to approach you, sir, and another one of the books that was in the kitchen cabinet, I believe.
[00:54:44] Speaker ?: Do you remember? I don't think so.
[00:54:45] Speaker 2: But is it fair to say, sir, that she had a number of books about parenting and things like that, and this one here was Pregnancy and Postpartum Anxiety Workbook. Did she have workbooks that you were aware of or work diagrams and things like that?
[00:55:21] Speaker 3: She had books of different sorts.
[00:55:25] Speaker 2: So you can't identify this as being in the kitchen, right? I don't recall seeing that book.
[00:55:33] Speaker 3: Sure. Thank you.
[00:55:35] Speaker 2: By the way, I'm going to approach you, sir, with this document and ask if you can identify it. It says postpartum depression and anxiety patient information sheet.
[00:56:08] Speaker 3: And if you go towards the end there, if there's some clear to be for writing in it?
[00:56:18] Speaker ?: Yeah. No objection. All right. That may be admitted.
[00:56:22] Speaker 3: Is there any money? Yeah.
[00:56:24] Speaker ?: No objection. All right. That may be admitted. Is there any money? Yeah. No objection. No objection.
[00:56:28] Speaker 4: No objection. All right.
[00:56:30] Speaker ?: That may be admitted. No objection. All right. That may be admitted.
[00:56:33] Speaker 2: Thank you. The flowers on the front appears to be a notebook. So your understanding that the state police went in your house and they seized all sorts of items such as this?
[00:57:13] Speaker 3: Yep.
[00:57:13] Speaker 2: So we don't have originals that the police do. Right. Fair and accurate?
[00:57:18] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[00:57:21] Speaker 2: Is that the caption that you were referring to?
[00:57:25] Speaker 3: Yes.
[00:57:26] Speaker 2: Postpartum depression and anxiety.
[00:57:28] Speaker 3: Yes.
[00:57:29] Speaker 2: And at the end of this particular document, you would agree, sir, that it has writing?
[00:57:37] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[00:57:39] Speaker 2: And whose writing is that?
[00:57:41] Speaker 3: Lindsay's.
[00:57:42] Speaker 2: And is this like a book or notes that she would take documenting on a daily basis any effect that she had from postpartum?
[00:57:53] Speaker 3: It appears to be a case.
[00:57:55] Speaker 2: Yeah. Your Honor, I would offer the records of Dr. Jennifer Tufts. Ask the mental health records.
[00:58:20] Speaker 4: No objection.
[00:58:21] Speaker 2: All right. They may be admitted. I'm going to have to, I think, maybe talk to the DA about this because I do have a lot of tabs and notes in this one. I know we have clean copies, right?
[00:58:32] Speaker 5: We have a clean copy we were planning to admit, so that's not a problem.
[00:58:35] Speaker 4: So we'll enter that and then before, we can then substitute it with a clean copy. Thank you.
[00:58:50] Speaker 2: Don, can I see the exhibit for that? One of the things that you had identified yesterday was the document that you obtained from CVS, is that correct?
[00:59:11] Speaker 3: Yes.
[00:59:11] Speaker 2: It sets forth all of the medications that were purchased by Lindsay, by prescription from the physicians that she had seen during that period of time, correct?
[00:59:21] Speaker 3: Correct.
[00:59:22] Speaker 2: And you indicated yesterday that the police had seized a number of pill bottles and then you also had a number of pill bottles, is that right?
[00:59:38] Speaker 3: Right.
[00:59:41] Speaker 2: And the pill bottles that you had, do you recall, what are the circumstances that you had them in a bag in your car?
[00:59:51] Speaker 3: Uh, the reason I had them in a bag is because sometimes a provider would adjust medications. So for example, I do remember, um, Lindsay had a prescription of Ativan and then a few days later they wanted to increase the dosage because it wasn't effective. Um, so what they would do is they would say, give that old prescription to your husband, he'll discard it and then continue taking from the new prescription.
[01:00:20] Speaker 2: When, when the DA yesterday went through, uh, that there were scripts and there were pills or the 30 count, but then there's 27 and three were gone, but that's because she wasn't taking her medication. That's, that's not the case, it was what you were told to do, right?
[01:00:35] Speaker 3: Correct. Yeah. Without that context, um, it, um, it paints a different picture.
[01:00:43] Speaker 2: Um, exhibit two would be the pills that you had turned in, I believe. Is that correct? Did it run your bag in your car?
[01:00:52] Speaker 3: Right.
[01:00:53] Speaker 2: I know you can't tell from looking at the bank.
[01:00:55] Speaker 3: I, I remembered it's, it's exhibit two though.
[01:00:57] Speaker 2: Okay. Um, Wednesday, January 24th, um, one of the troopers located four medication bottles and at some point on the 26th at about 2 30 in the afternoon, bottles were then, uh, documented by the police. When was it, if you know, that you turned these items into the police?
[01:01:19] Speaker 3: Um, I believe it was, it was after the event. I don't remember the exact date, but I remember I, um, I told them, uh, I do have other prescriptions in my truck still and I gave them to them.
[01:01:33] Speaker 2: Okay. So the police already went in with a search warrant. They already seized all the drugs that they could find in the house, in the kitchen, in the bedroom. Were there drugs in the kitchen, by the way?
[01:01:43] Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.
[01:01:44] Speaker 2: They're all over the place, right?
[01:01:45] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[01:01:46] Speaker 2: And they seized them, right?
[01:01:48] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[01:01:49] Speaker 2: And then you, to be cooperative, told the police that you also had pills in your car and you went to the DA's office and gave them to Attorney Sprague and the, and the state police, right?
[01:02:00] Speaker 3: Right. But to be clear, those were discontinued prescriptions.
[01:02:03] Speaker 2: These are the ones like that you, that she stopped.
[01:02:06] Speaker 3: Correct.
[01:02:06] Speaker 2: All right. And then you had new prescriptions and there were new prescriptions that were prescribed to her, right?
[01:02:11] Speaker 3: Yes.
[01:02:12] Speaker 2: Now, when I met with you in the house, long after the state police had gone and finished their search, you recall that we went up to the bedroom and I removed this from the nightstand right next to the bed.
[01:02:26] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[01:02:27] Speaker 2: Can you tell us what that is? What is this? Is it, is it a drawer, obviously?
[01:02:30] Speaker 3: That's the drawer that goes into the nightstand.
[01:02:32] Speaker 2: And inside the drawer, sir, do you recall that there were a number of items that I see? Yeah.
[01:02:43] Speaker ?: That's the drawer that I see.
[01:02:43] Speaker 2: That's the drawer that I see. That's the drawer that I see.
[01:02:45] Speaker ?: That's the drawer that I see. That's the drawer that I see.
[01:02:47] Speaker 2: That's the drawer that I see. That's the drawer that I see.
[01:02:49] Speaker ?: That's the drawer that I see.
[01:02:50] Speaker 2: That's the drawer that I see.
[01:02:51] Speaker ?: That's the drawer that I see.
[01:02:52] Speaker 2: That's the drawer that I see.
[01:02:53] Speaker ?: That's the drawer that I see. That's the drawer that I see. That's the drawer that I see. That's the drawer that I see. That's the drawer that I see. That's the drawer that I see. That's the drawer that I see. That's the drawer that I see.
[01:03:01] Speaker 2: That's the drawer that I see. That's the drawer that I see. That's the drawer that I see.
[01:03:04] Speaker ?: That's the drawer that I see.
[01:03:05] Speaker 2: That's the drawer that I see. That's the drawer that I see. That's the drawer that I see. That's the drawer that I see. That's the drawer that I see. That's the drawer that I see. That's the drawer that I see. That's the drawer that I see. That's the drawer that I see. That's the drawer that I see. That's the drawer that I see.
[01:03:16] Speaker ?: That's the drawer that I see. That's the drawer that I see. That's the drawer that I see. That's the drawer that I see.
[01:03:20] Speaker 2: That's the drawer that I see. That's the drawer that I see. That's the drawer that I see. That's the drawer that I see. That's the drawer that I see. Those are in this drawer and they were all empty, right? Right. You observed that, right? There's something else that was in the drawer. Do you recognize that?
[01:03:46] Speaker 3: Yeah. What is it?
[01:03:48] Speaker 2: It's her Apple Watch. Her Apple Watch. This is the Apple Watch that apparently the police use to walk the stairs, downstairs, hybrid, things of that nature, right? Yeah. They never even seized it, did they? They left it in the drawer, right?
[01:04:00] Speaker 3: Apparently. What is this item, sir?
[01:04:03] Speaker 2: If you can identify that for us.
[01:04:08] Speaker 3: It's a face mask for sleeping. To sleep? Yeah.
[01:04:15] Speaker 2: Now, you had mentioned something, I think, about pillow spray. What is that?
[01:04:21] Speaker 3: She bought some pillow spray. It apparently helps you sleep.
[01:04:26] Speaker 2: Did you see her using that on a regular basis? Yeah. Yes?
[01:04:32] Speaker 3: Yeah, she did. Yeah. Yeah, she did.
[01:04:35] Speaker ?: Okay. Your Honor, I would offer... I would offer...
[01:04:38] Speaker 2: I could just see... Yeah.
[01:04:40] Speaker ?: I think you found a watch. There's a watch on the side there.
[01:04:42] Speaker 2: No objection.
[01:04:43] Speaker ?: Okay. Do you want to put that in as one exhibit? Sure. Okay.
[01:04:45] Speaker 5: In reference to the Apple Watch, sir.
[01:04:46] Speaker ?: How many Apple Watches did she have?
[01:04:46] Speaker 5: How many Apple Watches did she have?
[01:04:47] Speaker ?: If you...
[01:04:47] Speaker 5: If you were able to see...
[01:04:48] Speaker 4: I could just see... Yeah. I think there's a watch on the side there.
[01:04:52] Speaker ?: Oh. just one... Just one. Just one. Just one. It's the only one she had. At least never seized it, right? Correct.
[01:04:58] Speaker 5: And the drugs that were in the drug...
[01:04:59] Speaker ?: The empty drugs and the pill bottles from January and December '22.
[01:04:59] Speaker 4: Okay. No objection. No objection. Okay. Do you want to put that in as one exhibit? Sure.
[01:05:05] Speaker ?: Okay. In reference to the Apple Watch, sir.
[01:05:07] Speaker 1: How many Apple Watches did she have? Just one.
[01:05:09] Speaker ?: Just one.
[01:05:10] Speaker 2: Just one. The only one she had. At least never seized it, right? Correct. And the drugs that were in the drug... The empty drugs and the pill bottles from January and December '22. '23. The police never seized it, right? Correct.
[01:05:21] Speaker 3: And the drugs that were in the drug...
[01:05:22] Speaker 2: The empty drugs and the pill bottles from January and December '22, '23. The police never seized it, did they? No. I'm showing you an item, sir. It's like a little green piece. Have you ever seen that before? Yeah.
[01:05:31] Speaker 3: Can you tell the jury what it is?
[01:05:33] Speaker ?: Objection. We could go to Saybar. Yeah. Can I see Council Saybar, please? Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
[01:09:34] Speaker 2: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. 935 with a smiley face, things like that, right?
[01:12:07] Speaker ?: Right.
[01:12:08] Speaker 2: Is this typical for Lindsay that she would document these things as a new mother?
[01:12:13] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[01:12:14] Speaker 2: Was she being controlling, in your opinion, of her child and of you by doing this schedule?
[01:12:19] Speaker 3: No, I found it helpful.
[01:12:20] Speaker 2: Any objection? No objection.
[01:12:25] Speaker 4: That may be admitted.
[01:12:25] Speaker 2: One of the things, sir, that the district attorney had asked you about is the exhibits of the, I think it was the window in the bedroom. You said it was 20 feet drop to the ground? Right. Is that right? This is a photograph of the same one you already introduced, but I just don't know where it is. So this is the photograph of the house. You can identify that, right?
[01:13:01] Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the living room window.
[01:13:04] Speaker 2: Okay. And the window that you're talking about that's 20 feet up would be on the very top of that picture, correct?
[01:13:14] Speaker 3: Correct.
[01:13:15] Speaker 2: Now, when you identified this picture, but I can't see, you see that there's some kind of an orange ball? It appears to be an orange ball underneath the silt. Yeah. To the left. And it appears to be red marks or red spots, like possibly blood above it. Yeah. Can you tell the jurors what that little orange ball is?
[01:13:50] Speaker 3: Yeah. We had a woodpecker who would peck at the house and create holes. That's why I've paired some of the other sections too, and I took some foam and filled the hole.
[01:14:08] Speaker ?: Okay.
[01:14:09] Speaker 2: I'd offer that, Your Honor. That may be admitted. And I'd also, if I may, just the top picture, I believe, is also here. It looks like fingerprints or blood on the edge of the window on the second floor. You see that? That's from the house. Yeah. Excuse me.
[01:14:27] Speaker 3: I'm turning back.
[01:14:28] Speaker 2: Yeah. Excuse me. Yeah.
[01:14:31] Speaker ?: Okay. So, okay.
[01:14:33] Speaker 2: I'm talking about the hornet thing right here. And then this is, I see it on this top here. Okay. So you see on the top of this window here, it's not a very good picture. Underneath the hornet thing, you can see it, but in the exhibit, you can see there's like blood drops or blood smears there.
[01:15:01] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[01:15:02] Speaker 2: I see it. That's the first floor window that's directly underneath the second floor window, right?
[01:15:06] Speaker 4: Right.
[01:15:07] Speaker 2: Any objection?
[01:15:09] Speaker 4: No. They may be admitted.
[01:15:13] Speaker 2: I'm all set, thank you, sir. All right. Redirect. Yes, your honor.
[01:15:41] Speaker 5: Thank you. Mr. Clancy, you were shown an email and it's been marked as an exhibit that you sent to coworkers on January 24th, 2023 at 5:24 PM, correct? Yeah. And you were asked about it coming from the Surface Pro, but your testimony was that it could have come from your iPhone, correct? Correct. And in fact, you watched footage earlier of yourself going into the CVS in Kingston at 5:32 PM, correct?
[01:16:13] Speaker 3: Correct.
[01:16:14] Speaker 5: And you had your phone with you, correct, because you used it? Yeah. And we also saw you on the 3V footage using your phone as well, correct? Right. So you were clearly out of the house at 5:24 PM, correct?
[01:16:27] Speaker 3: Sorry, what time did you say I was at CVS?
[01:16:32] Speaker 5: So you walked in at 5:32 PM, correct? Correct. And you left the house, as you were leaving the house, Lindsay sent you the text about PDLX, correct? Correct.
[01:16:44] Speaker 3: I don't know if I had left the house yet, but yeah.
[01:16:48] Speaker 5: But that was sent at 5:15 PM, correct? Right. And how far away is the Kingston CVS?
[01:16:55] Speaker 3: Three minutes.
[01:16:56] Speaker 5: Okay. And so you leave the house, you get into your car, and you drive to CVS, correct? Correct. And so that should have taken three minutes, correct? Yep. So after the text that was sent at 5:15 PM, that would have been sometime around 5:18 or 5:20 PM that you should have arrived at CVS, correct?
[01:17:15] Speaker 3: Right.
[01:17:16] Speaker 5: But you don't go in until 5:32 PM, correct?
[01:17:20] Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't know what time I pulled in the parking lot.
[01:17:25] Speaker 5: I'm not asking what time you pulled into the parking lot, but is it fair to say that the video that you were showing earlier shows you entering the store at 5:32 PM?
[01:17:33] Speaker 3: Yes.
[01:17:34] Speaker 5: So from the time you should have been at the parking lot of CVS around 5:20 PM until 5:32 PM, could you have been in your car sending this email on your iPhone?
[01:17:46] Speaker 3: Yeah, I just don't know if I pulled into the parking lot at 5:20.
[01:17:50] Speaker 5: But sometime after the text was sent from Lindsay about PDLX, but before 5:32 PM, you were in your car?
[01:17:59] Speaker 3: Correct. Okay.
[01:18:01] Speaker 5: Now, you were asked about my questions to you about going to Boston, and my questions to you were about December 3rd, not December 2nd, correct? Correct. Because your anniversary is December 3rd, not December 2nd, correct? Right. So Dawson was taken to the doctors on December 2nd, correct?
[01:18:23] Speaker 3: Correct.
[01:18:24] Speaker 5: And on December 3rd, did you have plans, not that they were followed through, but did you have plans to go to Boston that day?
[01:18:30] Speaker 3: Yeah, so I can provide some clarification on that. Sure. So yeah, on Monday, I was a little bit confused by it, because we were home. Yeah, I think there was a plan prior to that, like an anniversary plan to go to Boston, but it was canceled. Okay. And the picture you showed was from September.
[01:18:53] Speaker 5: Okay. So the plans that you had to go to Boston, I'm showing you here some text messages between yourself and Lindsay. And here, there's one here that says, "The spa at the Omni is booked, but you're on the wait list. As a backup, I have you booked for a massage at the nearby IHG for 90 minutes at 145." Is that correct?
[01:19:23] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[01:19:24] Speaker 5: Right. And then you later say, "We can get lunch," and then head over. She responds, "Okay." And then you write that they'll let you use the gym and the pool while she's getting her massage. Is that correct? Right. And then you talk about plans for lunch and dinner. And so there were the plans, they just fell through, right?
[01:19:50] Speaker 3: Yeah, we canceled them. Yeah.
[01:19:52] Speaker 5: So it's not as if I made that up out of thin air. That's here in the text messages, correct?
[01:19:56] Speaker 3: Right. Yeah. It was just confusing because we were home. But yeah, when I left, I recollected that, and then I found the picture, and the picture was from September.
[01:20:06] Speaker 5: And was that from the wedding you went to? Yeah. If we could have the text messages marked us in a specific.
[01:20:12] Speaker 4: Any objection? Nope. That may be admitted.
[01:20:15] Speaker ?: 87. All right. Okay. All right. All right.
[01:20:21] Speaker 5: All right. Now, in cross-examination, you said that Lindsay always took the medications exactly as instructed. Mm-hmm. But in direct, you said you weren't always with her every time she took the pills. Is that correct?
[01:20:34] Speaker 3: That's correct. But the understanding was that she took it as directed.
[01:20:37] Speaker 5: Because she told you she did?
[01:20:39] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[01:20:40] Speaker 5: And because you trusted her to do so?
[01:20:42] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[01:20:43] Speaker 5: Okay. But you can't sit here and say definitively that she took every pill exactly as instructed every single time because you didn't watch her every time.
[01:20:52] Speaker 3: Correct? I was not standing next to her every time she took pills.
[01:20:56] Speaker 5: And you were asked about the Facebook search in August, August 23rd, 2022. And you were asked about being on the Surface Pro and looking up the country singer who had killed himself. Is that right?
[01:21:11] Speaker 3: Right.
[01:21:12] Speaker 5: Okay. So, I think that what you said when you were asked by defense counsel about whether or not you accidentally went to this site on methods of suicide, you said that could be likely, that might have happened. You're not sure, correct?
[01:21:37] Speaker 3: Yeah. It's so subtle that I don't remember specifically. But I do remember listening to Tom T. Hall.
[01:21:44] Speaker 5: How often did you listen to him?
[01:21:46] Speaker 3: It was like for a week.
[01:21:47] Speaker 5: Okay. And so, were you aware that on 8:23, August 23rd, 2022, at 9:40 a.m., someone signed into Lindsay's Facebook account on the Surface Pro?
[01:22:01] Speaker 3: No.
[01:22:02] Speaker 5: And then at 9:43 p.m. is when the Tom Hall site was accessed. Do you recall that? Yeah. At 9:45 a.m. is when a person not just hit a link by accident but actually had to click on a link to go to suicide. Do you remember spending three minutes on the methods of suicide site, scrolling through and reading the methods of suicide site for three minutes?
[01:22:58] Speaker 3: No. I don't remember something I did for three minutes almost four years ago.
[01:23:03] Speaker 5: Do you remember being on that site, the methods of suicide, and clicking on a link to a bridge in Australia that people use to commit suicide? No.
[01:23:13] Speaker 3: No.
[01:23:14] Speaker 5: So, in this five minutes or so where someone's using the Surface Pro, using Lindsay's Facebook while doing that, and then clicking on these links you don't remember, you think it might have been you? I have no idea.
[01:23:28] Speaker 3: Okay.
[01:23:29] Speaker 5: Now, you talked about Lindsay's stay at McLean Hospital. You said that it was a locked ward she had to stay there, is that correct? Correct. But it was a voluntary commitment, wasn't it?
[01:23:48] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[01:23:49] Speaker 5: You didn't file any legal paperwork to have her committed, correct?
[01:23:54] Speaker 3: Correct.
[01:23:55] Speaker 5: There was no court order making her stay there, correct?
[01:23:58] Speaker 3: Correct.
[01:23:59] Speaker 5: So, if she wanted to leave and expressed to the doctors that she wanted to leave, and they didn't believe she was a danger to herself or others, she could leave, correct?
[01:24:07] Speaker 3: To be honest, I don't know. Okay.
[01:24:09] Speaker 5: Now, you stated on direct examination that you visited her two times during the time that she was there at McLean, right? At least twice, yeah. And you said those were in the evening hours, is that correct? Yeah, afternoon and evening.
[01:24:24] Speaker 3: Afternoon and evening.
[01:24:25] Speaker 5: Afternoon and evening. So, you weren't there during the morning and early afternoon hours when they were offering these group therapies and when she was meeting with other practitioners? I wasn't there in the morning.
[01:24:36] Speaker 3: I wasn't there in the morning. Okay.
[01:24:38] Speaker 5: And were you there when the staff was checking on her every 15 minutes?
[01:24:43] Speaker 3: No, but she did tell me about that.
[01:24:46] Speaker 5: Okay. And were you aware that she was evaluated several times and at first she had to stay on the unit, but then eventually, based on what she was telling them, she was allowed to go on the grounds with staff?
[01:24:56] Speaker 3: I was aware that she went on at least, I think at least one walk.
[01:25:01] Speaker ?: Okay.
[01:25:02] Speaker 5: And so people were seeing her and interacting with her and changing the way her stay went at McLean Hospital throughout her stay? Yeah.
[01:25:12] Speaker 3: Okay.
[01:25:13] Speaker 5: And you talked about Dr. Goodhart recommending medications. What was the medication that you said that she recommended?
[01:25:23] Speaker 3: I thought it was Cymbalta, but I think she ended up taking amitriptyline.
[01:25:35] Speaker 5: So, looking here at the CVS records that you provided. So, we see--sorry. So, we see here--here we go. Aliyah Goodhart, second from the bottom. Yep. Chazodone, 50 milligrams. So, you thought that Dr. Goodhart had just recommended medication when it was actually a prescription that was given by Dr. Goodhart, correct? Right.
[01:26:20] Speaker 3: But I believe--so, there's another one as well, lorazepam. Yes. I believe those were prescribed while she was staying there.
[01:26:26] Speaker 5: And so, they were filled at CVS and sent to McLean?
[01:26:32] Speaker 3: Uh, possibly. I remember there was an issue where she didn't have her medications when she went to McLean, so she needed them to be brought there.
[01:26:41] Speaker 5: She was discharged on January 5th, correct? Right. Are you aware that this document from CVS says that the prescription for trazodone 50 milligrams prescribed by Dr. Aliyah Goodhart was filled on January 5th, 2023?
[01:26:56] Speaker 3: Right.
[01:26:57] Speaker 5: Okay. And then the other prescription by Dr. Goodhart, the lorazepam was also--one milligram lorazepam was also filled on January 5th, 2023, correct? Yeah. So, that's when she was discharged, not while she was staying there, correct?
[01:27:14] Speaker 3: Right.
[01:27:15] Speaker 5: That's correct. Dr. Goodhart did is that prescribed medication for Lindsay, trazodone, and Ativan, and not Cymbalta, correct?
[01:27:24] Speaker 3: She recommended Cymbalta, but she didn't actually--she wasn't the one who prescribed that.
[01:27:29] Speaker 5: And in fact, no one prescribed that, correct?
[01:27:32] Speaker 3: Because it ended up switching to amitriptyline. Okay.
[01:27:36] Speaker 5: And the amitriptyline was prescribed by Dr. Jennifer Tuss, correct? Right. And Dr. Tufts prescribed five milligrams of diazepam on January 9th, 2023, correct? Right. And amitriptyline on January 16th. It was 10 milligrams of amitriptyline. And that was prescribed when Lindsay said she was having some issues with depression, correct? Correct. Okay. So, she went to McLean Hospital and she was weaned off the Seroquel, correct?
[01:28:27] Speaker 3: I believe so, yeah.
[01:28:29] Speaker 5: And all the medications that she had taken prior to going to McLean, she was no longer on, those were gone, correct? Once she had been in McLean.
[01:28:37] Speaker 3: I don't know if it was, I'm not sure, I'm not, I don't know if it was all of them.
[01:28:41] Speaker 5: Well, are you, did you have conversations with your wife about what she was taking? I mean, were you aware that she was only on, only prescribed, trazodone and Ativan when she left McLean, and then amitriptyline was only added on the 16th? So just those three medications?
[01:29:00] Speaker 3: Yeah, but I think, I thought she was taking trazodone before McLean.
[01:29:04] Speaker 5: Right, so she had been prescribed it before and stopped taking it, correct?
[01:29:08] Speaker 3: I don't remember, I'd have to look back on records.
[01:29:11] Speaker 5: So you're not sure about what she was taking and when are you?
[01:29:15] Speaker 3: Not the exact dates, but I remember she was taking trazodone, and I thought she was taking it before McLean.
[01:29:21] Speaker 5: So the best resource of what she was prescribed and when would most likely be the doctors and the CVS records then, correct? The CVS records is a good resource. And you talked about the pills and how these were pills that she was no longer on, so it wasn't really a good representation of what she had taken, correct? Correct. But she was only prescribed Zoloft once, right? At the very beginning? Right. And she only took seven of those pills, correct?
[01:29:57] Speaker 3: Right.
[01:29:58] Speaker 5: So it wasn't as if she was prescribed a higher dose or a different dose of Zoloft and was still taking that, and so that seven pills misrepresents the Zoloft she took, right?
[01:30:11] Speaker 3: I believe she switched because, or she stopped because she was switched to Prozac. Okay.
[01:30:16] Speaker 5: And then even going forward, the Prozac, there weren't many pills taken out of that either, correct?
[01:30:21] Speaker 3: Yeah, eventually she stopped that as well. Okay.
[01:30:24] Speaker 5: So she'd take a few pills, she'd have some side effects, they'd switch the medication, correct?
[01:30:29] Speaker 3: Yes.
[01:30:30] Speaker 5: And so they were trying to figure out what would work for her, correct? Yeah.
[01:30:34] Speaker 3: Okay.
[01:30:35] Speaker 5: And then she ends up at McLean because she's having difficulties, according to her, with the Seroquel, correct?
[01:30:41] Speaker 3: That was part of it, yeah.
[01:30:43] Speaker 5: And they wean her off of that, right?
[01:30:45] Speaker 3: Yep.
[01:30:46] Speaker 5: Yep. And then after McLean, she's only on the Trazodone, the Ativan, and then on the 16th, adding in the Amitriptyline, correct?
[01:30:56] Speaker 3: Right.
[01:30:59] Speaker 5: You mentioned that you went to New York in November of 2022. Defense counsel said that was a month before the children were killed, but that's actually two months before they were killed, correct?
[01:31:11] Speaker 3: It was, yeah, it was about a little more than two months.
[01:31:15] Speaker 5: And she hadn't been on the Seroquel yet, right?
[01:31:19] Speaker 3: I don't know exactly when she started the Seroquel.
[01:31:23] Speaker 5: Would December sound right?
[01:31:26] Speaker 3: Yeah, or end of November, yeah.
[01:31:28] Speaker 5: And so when you took your trip to New York, she was having some issues, but she was doing okay, wasn't she?
[01:31:36] Speaker 3: She was doing much better than she was in December.
[01:31:38] Speaker 5: Okay, and you all, did you also take another trip with Cora in November?
[01:31:45] Speaker 3: Yeah, so I did the trip to New York and as soon as I got back, um, went to bed and then the next morning left with Cora.
[01:31:51] Speaker 5: And was that November 4th through the 7th to San Francisco? Yeah. And where, um, who was taking care of Dawson and Callan while you were in San Francisco with Cora?
[01:32:01] Speaker 3: Lindsay.
[01:32:02] Speaker 5: And so during your trip to New York and then immediately after your trip, um, to San Francisco with Cora, were there any issues or any problems or did anything happen while Lindsay was caring for those kids?
[01:32:15] Speaker 3: Uh, nothing bad happened. She was, um, I would say her anxiety and depression was starting to tick up, but, uh, yeah, obviously nothing bad happened. Okay.
[01:32:24] Speaker 5: And it's your testimony that things started to get worse in December. Is that correct? Correct. But it was also your testimony that after the stay at McLean, things got better, wasn't it? Yeah. And she steadily progressed throughout January getting better, right? Definitely.
[01:32:43] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[01:32:44] Speaker 5: And on January 24th, 2023, you testified that that was one of her best days. Yeah. You were asked about the Apple Watch. Um, the police didn't collect the Apple Watch, right? Did collect her phone, correct? You identified it earlier, right? Correct. Um, and her Apple Watch was linked to her phone, was it not?
[01:33:07] Speaker 3: It probably was, yeah.
[01:33:09] Speaker 5: Um, you also asked about the drop from, um, the second floor window. Um, were you aware that the measurement from the windowsill to the ground was actually 12 feet?
[01:33:23] Speaker 3: Uh, I've never measured it, but yeah, I believe what you're saying.
[01:33:28] Speaker 5: And.
[01:33:29] Speaker 1: Looking for, um, one of the exhibits from Defense Council. Um, it's the, um, yes. Exhibit 84.
[01:33:45] Speaker 5: Um, this was the, um, the packet here that Defense Council was going through with you, um, where, um, you said this is Lindsay writing Helen's schedule. Is that right? Right. But this was also Lindsay sending notes back and forth between herself and Elaine.
[01:34:15] Speaker 3: Is that correct? Um, possibly.
[01:34:17] Speaker 5: Okay. There's different writing here, correct?
[01:34:20] Speaker ?: If you want to look at it.
[01:34:21] Speaker 5: Yeah. For example, this, this first page after the cover, we have writing here that you said was Lindsay's, correct?
[01:34:31] Speaker 3: It looks like it, yeah.
[01:34:32] Speaker 5: And then down here there's a note, um, that's in different handwriting, correct?
[01:34:37] Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say so. Okay.
[01:34:40] Speaker 5: So were you aware that Lindsay was using this notebook to communicate back and forth with the nanny about Helen's care?
[01:34:47] Speaker 3: Um, she, she had different notebooks. She always had a notebook that she would, uh, leave for the babysitter or for me.
[01:34:53] Speaker 5: And so for example, on Tuesday, September 4th, um, she wrote last fed at 6:00 AM, give him a bottle. Whenever he wakes up, he likes it very warm. He's been resisting the bottle. If he won't drink it after 45 minutes of trying, please text me to let me know. Put down for next nap one hour after he wakes, try to put down drowsy, but a weight. But if he cries, pick him up and rock, bounce, or hold him until sleep, then put down. He usually sleeps 45 minutes, but let him sleep as long as he wants. These are very detailed notes that Lindsay is sending, uh, to the nanny, correct?
[01:35:27] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[01:35:28] Speaker 5: And then she also wrote, if you have time, wash and cut up veggies, sweet potatoes, one inch cubes peeled, broccoli, small pieces, peppers, one inch pieces, plastic Ziploc bags to put them in. Next bottle, two and a half hours after the first bottle. Correct?
[01:35:44] Speaker 3: I believe what you're reading.
[01:35:45] Speaker 5: So very particular about what she wanted the nanny to do, how she wanted her to do it, and when to feed Carolyn, when to put him down for a nap, all of those things. Very particular, correct?
[01:35:57] Speaker 3: Sounds like it, yeah.
[01:35:59] Speaker 5: Again, Thursday, September 29th, 2022. Carolyn last fed at 8:45, please put him down for a nap at 9:35. We will be home from gymnastics at 11:45. Clean clothes and dry if you get to it. Um, so again, very specific times for, for putting him down and when to get up and, and, uh, very, and asking her to do additional work like laundry and things like that, correct? Yeah. Again, uh, October 6th, 8 at 8:15, fell asleep at 8:40, changing tables now in the bathroom. If he wakes before 9:40, give him 15 minutes to settle himself back to sleep. I'm hoping he will sleep till 10:15. If he is still asleep at 10:40, wake him. Feeding at 11:00 a.m. First try bottle. If he doesn't take it after 15 minutes, make oatmeal. Two tablespoons of oatmeal. Make thin with breast milk. Can heat for 5 to 10 seconds. Again, very specific directions on what she wants done and how she wants Callen cared for, correct?
[01:37:13] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[01:37:14] Speaker 5: And throughout this notebook, it's more of the same, correct? Or have you even seen that? I haven't seen it.
[01:37:20] Speaker 3: Yeah.
[01:37:21] Speaker 5: I have nothing further, thank you.
[01:37:30] Speaker 2: Which nanny was that?
[01:37:32] Speaker 3: That would have been Elaine Rossi.
[01:37:35] Speaker 2: And Elaine Rossi, how long was she the nanny for you guys? A month or two.
[01:37:40] Speaker 3: Yeah, probably two months.
[01:37:41] Speaker 2: And then she just needed more hours and moved on and Lindsay was home, so. Yeah.
[01:37:47] Speaker 3: Yeah, I think she preferred more hours. We couldn't really give it to her and Lindsay was home anyway, so. Okay.
[01:37:54] Speaker 2: And as far as the records are concerned, is it fair to say that Lindsay as a concerned mother would give instructions to people that would be taking care of her infant?
[01:38:03] Speaker 3: Yeah, I would have done the same.
[01:38:05] Speaker 2: Okay. A lot of discussion about these prescriptions and scripts from the different doctors. And one of the things you referenced was that you believed that she was on trazodone. And if I suggest to you that there was a doctor, Izad Parayarara, Kayvon, on November 16th of '22, that prescribed 50 milligrams of trazodone while she was on buspirone and floxetine. Does that refresh your memory that in November she was prescribed 50 grams of trazodone?
[01:38:36] Speaker ?: Yeah.
[01:38:37] Speaker 3: Yeah, I remember trazodone being like a part of the medication plan for a while.
[01:38:43] Speaker 2: And one of the things that you did, as we talked about, is you went to CVS and you got a list of all the drugs, right? Right. And if I suggest to you, sir, that this is just an easy reference with different colors for different doctors of exactly what the CVS provided. Does that appear to be accurate of the scripts that we've read? Yeah.
[01:39:02] Speaker ?: Yep.
[01:39:03] Speaker 5: Can I see which one that is, please? No objection. Okay.
[01:39:07] Speaker 4: That may be admitted.
[01:39:08] Speaker 2: That's all I have to say.
[01:39:10] Speaker 5: Thank you.
[01:39:11] Speaker ?: Okay.
[01:39:14] Speaker 4: All right. Thank you, sir. You may step down. Thank you. Council, could I see you?
[01:39:27] Speaker ?: Thank you. Thank you. The jury.
[01:40:28] Speaker 4: I know it's been a long day for everyone, so we're going to excuse you till tomorrow morning. The hope is to start about 9:00 and kind of the same thing. We'll go to hopefully about 11:00. Take a break at 11:00. We'll have a break from 1:00 to 2:00. And we'll go into the afternoon around 3:00 or 4:00. All right. So that's the thing. Remember, I'm going to ask you those questions about not talking about the case, not doing any research about it, don't watch anything about it. You still have to keep an open mind. At this point, you've heard some evidence, but you haven't heard all the evidence. You haven't heard the law that you are to apply to the evidence. So you've got to, at this point, you've got to keep struggling in a sense. Keep that open mind. So I'm going to excuse you. I hope you have a nice evening. We'll come back here tomorrow morning. If I forget to tell you, tomorrow, Friday, we're still on schedule to take that view and then deal with the schedule when we come in tomorrow. But that's the best I can tell you, that's the schedule for tomorrow. So again, thank you so much for all your work on this case so far. I hope you have a nice evening. We'll see you tomorrow. Thank you.
[01:41:56] Speaker 2: All right. All right.
[01:41:58] Speaker ?: Good. Good. Thank you. Good.
[01:42:30] Speaker 4: All right. So we'll be in recess on this matter until tomorrow morning at 9:00. Thank you.
[01:42:36] Speaker 2: Thank you.
[01:42:37] Speaker 4: Thank you.
[01:42:38] Speaker ?: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.