Lindsay Clancy Trial: I Watched Patrick Testify In Person

[00:00:00] Anne Emerson: Hey everyone, I'm Anne Emerson, and this is Criminally Obsessed. I've covered a lot of trials, but I don't think anything could have prepared me to see Patrick Clancy take the stand. He was sitting just feet away from his now ex-wife, Lindsay Clancy, who's accused of killing their three small children. Listen as Patrick told jurors that Lindsay told him she was having thoughts about hurting their children before that horrible day. [00:00:26] Speaker 2: When she told you that she was having intrusive thoughts, did you ask her what they were? [00:00:32] Speaker 3: Yeah. She described thoughts of hurting the kids or them having some sort of ailment. [00:00:43] Anne Emerson: Patrick is the first witness for the prosecution. His time on the stand is one of the biggest moments in this trial. And our guest, Lauren Mathias, the host of Hidden True Crime Podcast, was there. She closely follows and reports on the biggest true crime cases. And she knows better than anyone else. Being in that courtroom allows you to pick up on moments that are missed by the cameras. And Lauren was so close that she could hear Lindsay breathing as she sat in her wheelchair. [00:01:14] Lauren Mathias: And you can see her shoulders shaking. You can tell it's getting emotional from the very beginning. And she's watching her ex-husband on the stand. [00:01:21] Anne Emerson: We know Patrick Clancy supports his ex-wife and agrees with her defense attorney that she was suffering from postpartum psychosis in 2023 when she killed her three kids by strangling them with exercise bands before jumping out of a two-story window. She was left paralyzed. We also know postpartum psychosis is a rare mental illness that can cause delusions, hallucinations, and a break from reality after childbirth. Patrick Clancy tried so hard to hold it together on that stand. Lauren says that was visible the whole time. [00:01:58] Lauren Mathias: Watching him look at those photos, he looks up, he looks down, he looks to the side. You can see just how very, very raw it is. It's hard to see this grieving father that we've all felt for for a few years in person. [00:02:15] Anne Emerson: Make sure to like and subscribe for more on the Lindsay Clancy story. Now, let's get into it. Lauren Mathias of Hidden True Crime. If anybody in this courtroom, as we're going through the Lindsay Clancy trial, it has to be you. I mean, it really does. You really are going to help us with this. I'm so glad you're there, Lauren. [00:02:41] Lauren Mathias: Thank you, Anne. Thanks for having me. It's a difficult place to be right now. I'll be honest, but thank you. Yeah. An important place to be too, though. [00:02:49] Anne Emerson: It is. And it is a, it's a, I think it's going to be a groundbreaking case, honestly. I do too. You know, I think the way that they're approaching this is, is going to be really interesting. But there is so much to unpack, isn't there? Tell me your, tell me your initial thoughts. You walked into that courtroom and, and what was it like, Lauren? [00:03:09] Lauren Mathias: First off, the tension is so thick. The, the, the prosecution and defense, first off, you couldn't, it couldn't be more extreme. The tension, the friction. Because one thing nobody's disputing in there is that Lindsay Clancy killed her children. That's been stipulated. So she's wheeled in. And it's such a moment too. I, I, I won't forget when they, when they had a stand for the judge and the defendant could not stand. Right. So stand for the judge. We all stand. She, of course, stays seated because she's unable to stand. And those opening statements begin and you can actually, I'm sitting behind Lindsay, if some rows back, but you can still hear her breathing. Like you can see her shoulders shaking. You can tell it's getting emotional from the very beginning. Her parents, sister, a few rows back and it's just sad. And then the defense gets up and this is where the friction is. And he literally says to the prosecution, the Commonwealth, you are trying to tear her soul out, essentially implying, you know, this is, this is a witch hunt by the prosecution. You know, Salem is an hour North. And it's so extreme and it's just so sad. Seeing Lindsay Clancy there in the wheelchair is so sad. Seeing photos of those smiling children is so sad. Seeing Patrick Clancy walk in for his testimony is so sad. The father of these children who found them, you know, on that 911 call, it's just. And I know I've repeated this word a lot and but all I can do is summarize it was sad. It is so sad. [00:04:59] Anne Emerson: I could feel the tension just from watching the live stream of what was going on. I can only imagine. And then she just keeps on falling apart. Like she just keeps on Lindsay Clancy keeps on falling apart. [00:05:10] Lauren Mathias: Well, think of it this way. But she has a screen right in front of her. And when the photos of the children are shown and she sees those photos flash in front of her each time. Yeah. And she's watching her ex-husband is now her ex-husband on the stand, you know, testify and and respond to this. Seeing her life before this moment, having her family behind her, you know, her her past, her ex-husband in front of her. And the jurors, when they would show photos of the children, interestingly enough, they often looked at Lindsay. [00:05:49] Anne Emerson: What was it like when Patrick Clancy walked in to into the courtroom? [00:05:53] Lauren Mathias: Yes. He actually did walk right in front of me because I'm at that row where there's a space. So it is sort of like the aisle where people walk in and passed. And again, it was heavy. It was really heavy. He he walked in stoic. He walked in brave, almost like he knew what his responsibility was. He, I'm sure, is not looking forward to this. I don't think he wanted a trial, but he was there because he knew, you know, this was was his job and he walked in, walked in, yeah, looked at the people in the gallery. I could see him scanning, noticing people, and then just went straight to the stand. [00:06:37] Speaker 2: Were you previously married to a person named Lindsay Clancy? Yes. And you're divorced now. Is that correct? [00:06:43] Anne Emerson: Correct. Did you feel like he was kind of directing any of his testimony towards her? [00:06:47] Lauren Mathias: No, I don't think he was completely avoiding her, but he is not constantly looking in her direction. And when he sees the photos of the children, he's actually looking to the side and away from her and looking up at the ceiling or down. And I think that's an attempt to sort of control his emotion. So he is not looking at her when the photos of the children are shown. He's he's not looking though. I would say at anything. It seems like he's just trying to keep calm and keep stable. [00:07:16] Anne Emerson: Yeah. I mean, I just I feel like he's trying everything he can do not to fall apart. Here's Patrick Clancy on the stand. [00:07:26] Speaker 2: Going to Tuesday, January 24th, 2023. How was Lindsay's mood? She seemed happy. Did you receive a text from Lindsay about dinner? Yeah. [00:07:38] Speaker 3: I came upstairs. I took Callan for a minute and I rocked him by my knees, kiss Cora on the head. And I still buried Pac. [00:07:50] Anne Emerson: When you're watching him, I mean, you're seeing him in person. We've seen these pictures of him. What do you think of when you see him on the stand now, even compared to what we've seen in those those photos with the children? [00:08:03] Lauren Mathias: Yeah, it was really interesting for me to see him. I've had actually a lot of questions about Patrick Clancy. We know the statements he made quickly after showing support for his wife, absolute agony, absolute grief, sharing that they had a wonderful marriage, that this is mental illness. He hasn't been as vocal recently. And I have wondered what it would be like. You know, years have passed for years have passed now. Where is he in this process? I know that they're divorced. I know that he's remarried. Right. And so I wondered, you know, how was it going to be? And it was like it was it was watching a man with absolute grief, though. He walked in and I think I think hearts were just breaking. And it was very clear. Again, the way I would describe it is he's probably been preparing for this moment that he hasn't wanted to have happened for a long time. But he knows it's coming. He's there. He answered questions. He did his best. At one point, he said, sort of implied to the prosecution. Well, I think this needs more context. I thought that was an interesting moment, but mostly just direct answers to these questions about where the children were, who was taking care of them. What doctor appointment did Lindsay go to? But the moment the children are talked about, you can see that he is holding everything back. And the moment where I first sort of heard that crack in his voice was asking about Cora's date of birth. And again, watching him look at those photos, he looks up, he looks down, he looks to the side. You can see just how very, very raw it is. You know, these these little ones. He talks about taking them skiing and it's it's hard. It's hard to see this grieving father that we've all felt for for a few years in person. [00:10:02] Speaker 3: The prosecutor played a video of course birthday party. [00:10:10] Anne Emerson: What was that like to see? What what what because, you know, that was something that that we were not experiencing. [00:10:16] Lauren Mathias: Yeah, we've seen a lot of photographs of the children. We haven't all haven't all seen these personal videos, especially leading up to their deaths. And and that was actually really emotional to bring these children back to life for that moment in that courtroom. And imagine it's going to be before we see the autopsy photos to the the jurors are going to see those autopsy photos. And so now they're getting to know these three children and their lives and their happy lives princesses, fire trucks. We we saw photos of them in the gallery on the day they lost their lives. We see Cora at the at the doctor's office in a gown and a mask. We see Dawson the first day he dressed himself and his dad was so proud and sent a photo to Lindsey and then Lindsey in return sent the photo of of Cora. And it's leading up to this moment where where we're now about 30 minutes, you know, before the children lost their lives, where he's getting takeout for the family, picking up medicine for the family. This is what a reliable, responsible doting dad does. And so to see these photos shared by their parents on the very day this happened, smiling children celebrating a milestone, a milestone, Dawson dressed himself. Cora is sick, but we're going to get her medicine. And then to realize that just hours later, Lindsey did the unthinkable. I think everyone in that courtroom is just really trying to understand and process the loss of these three beautiful, innocent children that looked so happy. And not only that, they looked so loved. [00:12:03] Anne Emerson: So I know it in when they the prosecution really drug out this this waterpark video as well. Like and did you understand or can you help us explain to the viewers sort of why were they why was the prosecution showing so much of this waterpark video, letting it sit on this waterpark video for a while? [00:12:24] Lauren Mathias: Why they were doing it, I think, depends on who you ask. You know, I think we're going to learn a little bit later about why they're relying on this so much. But I think what they are trying to show is that that she wasn't in psychosis, that Lindsey was not experiencing this extreme psychosis, that she was hearing voices, that she was capable, that she was aware of what was going on around her, that she could take care of her children. That's what I'm getting from it. Of course, who knows where they're going to take this evidence? But what I'm gathering from it is that they want to show that she's capable, she's competent, she's understanding right from wrong. She's aware of what's going on. She can take care of the children. She is participating in everyday family life. [00:13:11] Anne Emerson: When I was watching Patrick on the stand, and I looked at the photographs, I just kept on looking at those two different men, the man that was holding his three little babies, and then the man that was on that stand. And he looked decades older to me. He looked like he had gone through three years of grief that had just taken 30 years off of his life. I mean, he's still a very handsome young man, but to me, he changed, and that's probably what hurt the most, was that you don't get that innocence back. [00:13:48] Lauren Mathias: I completely agree. You know, as I say, the day started out so ordinary, that January day, right? They're building a snowman. They're taking Cora to the doctor. And he had this sort of, I think we all see the sort of ordinary, maybe even blissful, perfect family life. And in an instant, his life becomes anything but ordinary. It becomes, you know, unimaginable grief, right? Like, all of us understand enough that this is, this is horrific. This is, this is a loss that you can't get over that will, you know, affect the rest of your life. And here he is, three years later, having to relive it, and the pain is so clear on his face. [00:14:37] Anne Emerson: How did the jurors react to him? [00:14:41] Lauren Mathias: They listened intently, many of them taking notes. And again, they would often look at Lindsey, they would look at him. And when those pictures were shown, they would, they would look at Lindsey. I think they're really, I think they're really trying to understand the dynamic between those two as well. Because again, Patrick is simply answering questions. I think they're trying to understand. And they're looking at her, they're looking at him, they're, you can tell this is heavy for them. This is heavy. This is a tragedy and you're watching this person have to relive it. Two people who are now, again, divorced. One of them in a wheelchair, the other on the, on the stand, having to testify. [00:15:23] Anne Emerson: The prosecution's using him to set up sort of what was happening in those months beforehand about the struggles that she had with her pregnancies. Here's a part of Patrick Clancy's testimony. [00:15:33] Speaker 2: Going back to after Cora was born, do you recall the defendant having any physical issues? [00:15:40] Speaker 3: I think there was a lot of tearing. And she bled a lot. [00:15:44] Speaker 2: What was Dawson's delivery like? Pretty traumatic. [00:15:48] Speaker 3: How so? He was in a, I think a breach position. It caused just significant bruising and tearing. [00:15:58] Speaker 2: Now, eventually you had your third child, correct? Yeah. When she told you that she was having intrusive thoughts, did you ask her what they were? Yeah. And what was her response? [00:16:08] Speaker 3: She described thoughts of, of hurting the kids or, or having, or them having some sort of ailment. [00:16:20] Anne Emerson: What did you think about the way he was explaining it? [00:16:23] Lauren Mathias: Yeah, that was interesting. You know, he shared that she admitted that she had these intrusive thoughts about harming the children and then he asked, well, should you be, be around them? And she said, I think I'm okay. And then he said, and I think this was a really honest moment. He said, it was confusing. It was confusing. He said, because she would say this and I would think, oh my goodness, what can I do as a, as a husband? Do I need to keep the children away? But then she would make them dinner and she would play with them and she would take care of them. And so it confused him as he said it, because it was confusing seeing her being loving to them and making care of them. He said, it was confusing. And I think that was like a real moment for me of just hearing that from him. He didn't know what the end result was going to be. You couldn't fathom, right? That this woman he loved in this life and the three children, that this would be, you know, hindsight is 20, 20, as they say, he, he didn't understand what could have happened. And so, as he said, it was confusing. I was confused. [00:17:28] Anne Emerson: I did not see him break down yet. [00:17:32] Lauren Mathias: He has held it together. And I think I'm going to speculate and that that's why the judge ended court today, because he did hold it together. And I think we were going to get to a point where it possibly wasn't going to be possible anymore for him to come home and hear that 911 call. And then my heart sunk that he's now going to have to wait another two days to come right [00:17:59] Speaker ?: back. [00:17:59] Anne Emerson: Just to get, take it. Just, it was like, part of me was, and I didn't know if that was something that was happening behind the scenes when you were in there. He didn't want to stop what was going to have to happen next. Probably. [00:18:10] Lauren Mathias: So that's what I think my speculation is he realized that we were getting up to that moment, that it was going to become very difficult. And, you know, let's, let's end now rather than later. Right. Let's end early and stop here. So I think that the judge's choice was a caring choice and a wise choice. [00:18:31] Anne Emerson: Coming up on Wednesday, we're going to, we are going to have to hear about the next minutes, not even hours. It's the next minutes that, that the prosecution's been sort of teeing up like the timeline of where he was and how he, how he went out. And then it's going to move into this cross-examination. I know this is going to feel very different. And I wonder, we, as you said, Patrick has told us, you know, in statements, Patrick Clancy's talked about how he doesn't, he sees this as not a monster. This is mental illness that his wife got sick. She was sick. This is something that happened to her. How does this play out with the way he, he presents this to the prosecution versus the defense? If you just kind of put your, your lawyer hat on for me for a minute, like which way, how does, how does his demeanor change? Do you think, what should we expect? [00:19:34] Lauren Mathias: It's a really good question. I've had the same question. You know, like I said, there was this one moment. I can't remember his exact quote. So I'm paraphrasing, but they were pushing him on trying to say, well, do you know that Lindsay didn't take all of those pills? You know that she was prescribed. And he said, I think context matters here. I think that when it comes to the defense, that's when we'll get that context that Patrick says matters. I think that he'll be able to share in depth what he saw, what he felt, what he witnessed, what his wife is like. Right? I think that the children's, the prosecution is sort of letting us get to know the children right now. The defense in their opening statement tried to let us get to know Lindsay. But I think what the defense is really going to do is, is what the prosecution is doing with the children. We're going to get to know Lindsay and we're going to get to know the Clancy marriage. I think the marriage and that relationship is going to be a really important part of the defense and what Patrick is going to share. So the more emotional side, that contextual side, we're going to get, I think, to sort of the depth of relationships and his bigger feelings about her and their marriage with the defense. [00:20:50] Anne Emerson: Drop a comment below. I want to hear your thoughts on Patrick Clancy's testimony. There is more to come and be sure to like, subscribe and turn on your notifications. So you know when we'll be live streaming the trial.