Karen Read Retrial (Pt 3.2) — Kerry Roberts — Cross Examination

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: your honor may i head thank you good morning miss roberts how are you good morning under questioning by mr brennan you talked about the number of times or a number of times that you have spoken to the da's office or some member of the da's office i'd like to ask you a couple of questions about that sure how many times in total do you think you've spoken to a representative of the district attorney's office i i don't i don't have a number would you say it's more than a dozen yes uh would you say it's more than 50 maybe around there okay maybe less and who are the folks miss roberts that you have spoken to at the da's office uh steve nelson okay the victim advocate [00:00:51] Miss Roberts: uh yuri buchanik who's a state police officer and um the da michael morrissey [00:00:58] Speaker 1: and what was the i want to take those in order and two of those are at the da's office one of those is not yuri buchanik is not at the da's office he's actually a massachusetts state police officer is that right yes okay let's take those in order um how many times would you say you've spoken to mr nelson [00:01:18] Miss Roberts: just if you give me a thumbnail i don't know maybe 30 40 okay have you received what you would consider to be updates on the progress of the case um i would ask questions and he would give me very broad answers [00:01:34] Speaker 1: okay uh were your questions ever prompted by conversations that you had with your friend [00:01:40] Miss Roberts: miss mccabe jen mccabe sometimes jen would say could you ask steve this because i had a rapport [00:01:46] Speaker 1: with steve okay were those conversations by text message or phone calls or both um i would usually text him okay um what about the conversation with or conversations with mr morrissey the elected district attorney what were the circumstances under which you contacted mr morrissey well during the course [00:02:10] Miss Roberts: of this trial the witnesses have been harassed that's not my question objection but i'm answering your [00:02:15] Speaker 3: question hold on what's the i'm going to sustain the objection next question thank you were you phone [00:02:25] Speaker 1: were you phoning him were you meeting him were you texting him that's my question the circumstances of [00:02:30] Miss Roberts: the communication itself i phoned the office asking for a meeting had a meeting and then he left a voicemail at some point and texted me and said i just left you a voicemail okay was that the extent of your [00:02:44] Speaker 1: conversations with mr morrissey the elected da i had one other meeting with other witnesses okay and the da and turning to yuri buknik uh what were the logistics i'll use that word instead of circumstances what were the logistics of you contacting your buknik was it by phone was it in-person meetings text messages or all the done all of the above all of the above how many times would you say that you've spoken with uri buknik spoken or communicated sorry good point communicated with um probably 20. okay uh when was the last time actually let me ask a different question have you ever met with uh mr brennan before your testimony today yes when what was the circumstance of that meeting um going over my testimony from the [00:03:35] Miss Roberts: last trial okay and sort of just asking questions on how what might come this time would i be cross examined i wasn't last time just sort of you know all the things went through my testimony okay when was that meeting uh i don't know in the last couple of weeks i don't know okay where was the meeting um at the da's office who else was there different times that i would meet with him steve nelson would be there um one time uh brian tully was there um uh mr brennan's assistant i'm sorry mr brennan's assistant okay um i don't know um adam lally and laura mclaughlin [00:04:27] Speaker 1: were those meetings you said there was two meetings or did i misunderstand you yeah i think there were two okay were those close in time to one another you mentioned two weeks ago were those [00:04:38] Miss Roberts: both two i said a few weeks ago but the other meeting was just before i was going to testify [00:04:44] Speaker 1: meaning what yesterday the day before um last week was that also at the da's office yes it was uh were you shown anything at that meeting um was i shown anything videos testimony transcripts um [00:05:04] Miss Roberts: no no nothing i don't think so okay we went over my testimony on the screen um and then i just talked about my testimony from the last time okay when you say you went over your testimony on screen what do you mean we watched my testimony from the first trial on a tv [00:05:23] Speaker 1: screen okay so you were showing something you were showing a video of your of your prior testimony yes [00:05:29] Speaker 3: so i'd like to see consulate cyber for just a minute please you are [00:05:40] Speaker 1: may i hear yes thank you other than watching your testimony uh were you shown anything else transcripts videos like videos that you may have seen today dash cam videos anything like that i don't think so okay i don't think i was shown anything okay did you discuss other parts of your prior testimony yes okay what was discussed concerning your prior testimony and and how it would impact how you testify today on [00:06:10] Miss Roberts: direct examination um he mr brendan had just asked me can you just tell me what happened so i told him [00:06:17] Speaker 1: the story verbally okay uh anything come up about uh specific instant instances of how you were going going to testify today no or yesterday no okay uh i want to talk to you a little bit mr roberts about the video that you were shown by mr brendan it's the dash cam video of officer serif i'm not sure if you know which officer that is no i don't it's the one that that you've been watching okay that dash cam that shows your car in the foreground yep uh i'd like to ask you a couple of quick questions about your memory of that incident and then perhaps show you the video depending upon what the answer is sure do you remember when the officer first arrived you and miss reed specifically were at mr o'keefe's body yes where was miss mccabe [00:07:15] Miss Roberts: at that moment she was she was there too but she was waving down the first responders because it was dark out and he couldn't see us he had a spotlight you and miss reed were both providing [00:07:27] Speaker 1: some level of cpr some level of life-saving efforts yes as was miss mccabe what was miss mccabe doing [00:07:35] Miss Roberts: when i was doing chest compressions and karen was doing mouth-to-mouth jen was either on the phone with 911 or handing me baby blankets okay um at some point she did take over doing chest compressions [00:07:47] Speaker 1: because i asked her to okay uh so miss reed was focused on mr o'keefe's head face area correct you were focused on the chest correct miss mccabe was at some point at least she had called 9-1-1 or dialed 9-1-1 yes when miss mccabe dialed 9-1-1 and was on the phone with 9-1-1 isn't it true that she was actually in a vehicle at the time that is not true she was outside she was outside that's your memory yes okay uh have you heard the 9-1-1 tape uh of that call yes okay you're aware that that tape was also captured by an open line uh on miss reed's phone yes that open line was that phone was dropped inside the cab of an suv it was in the back seat i believe right so in order for that su sorry for that open line to capture sort of the background of miss mccabe's side of the 911 call miss mccabe would have had to have been either at or in the cab of the truck [00:08:54] Miss Roberts: the the back of the suv was open she was standing there got it okay so she was right next to or adjacent to the cab of the suv she was in back of it with the the back was up i see that back hatch yes okay um [00:09:12] Speaker 1: do you remember miss reed's statement and her initial statement to officer seraph when he got out of his i do not do you remember her saying something to the effect of my boyfriend i left him he never came home i do not okay have you listened with audio to that dash cam at the moment that officer seraph arrives at the scene and y'all flag him down we just watched it right have you listened to it for the audio side i mean in other words instead of focusing on the video no okay i'd like to ask you to do that with the court's permission this is exhibit it's been previously marked as exhibit four and with the court's permission i'd like to play that from run time about 350 and ask the witness to concentrate most readily at about 407 maybe 10 seconds into it i'm going to give a little run up and then ask you to listen very closely to the audio yep with the course permission yes okay yes okay stop do you recognize the the video as being the same video that you saw and you looked at on direct examination yes okay in just a quick second the door to the car you're going to hear it open i'd like to ask you to pay special attention to the audio portion and miss reed's voice okay if you can hear it go ahead stop did you hear that last statement no did you hear a woman's voice kind of faint in the background [00:11:19] Miss Roberts: i heard a voice but i didn't make out what she was saying okay did it sound like she said my [00:11:26] Speaker 1: boyfriend i dropped him off and he never came home objection could you hear that ms roberts no okay next question um that's all i have for the video we can take that down you talked about on direct examination some of the injuries that you saw mr o'keefe having suffered both what you observed at the scene and then what you observed later at the hospital yep and you noted those injuries correct say it again you noted those injuries those were yes you made you made note of those yes or at least some of them um you said you saw a hematoma of some sort over his right eye is that right correct and there was some significant swelling to his right eye correct at the scene correct did you also notice a laceration just above his right eye just under the eyebrow [00:12:27] Miss Roberts: um i i saw it at the hospital but i don't know if at the scene i saw it fair enough at some point [00:12:33] Speaker 1: you saw that laceration to his right eye yes i did did you also see a laceration to the left side of his nose a smaller laceration to the left side of his nose i don't recall i know there was [00:12:43] Miss Roberts: blood coming from here but i don't know if it was coming from inside his nose or from a laceration [00:12:49] Speaker 1: i don't know when you said here you're pointing to the left side of your nostril yes and just basically [00:12:55] Miss Roberts: just above the nostril correct yes right around the nostril there was blood coming this way okay [00:13:00] Speaker 1: draining to the left side of his cheek yes okay you also saw once you got to the hospital that his [00:13:07] Miss Roberts: left eye had swollen as well now both eyes were swollen and filled with what looked like blood and [00:13:13] Speaker 1: his left eye was black as well as his right eye correct okay you also indicated that you saw well actually i don't know if you did or not so i don't want to put words in your mouth i apologize did you see his right arm i did did it appear to you that he had some abrasions or lacerations parallel abrasions and lacerations and punctures on his right arm they were scratches scratches ms roberts you've previously testified that when you arrived let me take you back instead of jumping right into it after you met up with ms reed at jen mccabe's house that morning so this is just after five o'clock or so the three of you arrived back at one meadows correct is that right i'm sorry correct okay uh you're trailing the lexus suv correct correct the lexus pulls in to the driveway and you pull in directly directly behind miss reed and jennifer mccabe is driving correct you're driving your suv correct correct you've previously testified that when you arrived at one meadows at that moment um that once that suv the lexus suv had pulled in and you pulled in behind the lexus you got out of the lexus sorry you got out of your suv they got out of the lexus and that's a point at which karen showed you the back of her tail light and said something to the effect of uh do you think i hit him do you think [00:14:54] Miss Roberts: i hit him oh my god do you think i hit him do you recall that i recall saying i didn't know if it was when we were coming or going but she did point out the tail light okay um when you previously testified [00:15:09] Speaker 1: under oath your quote was quote karen pulls in and i pull in behind her mr jackson give page and line numbers when yes offering statements sure it's the sg uh sgj the grand jury page 58 lines 14 through 19 for court and council thank you did you testify quote karen pulls in and i pull in behind her period when we get out and karen is now showing us the back of the car saying my tail light do you think i hit him do you think i hit him oh my god do you guys think i hit him question mark end quote is that how you testified may i see it sure [00:16:16] Speaker 3: i apologize i've already got it up here does it have a date on it mr jackson it does [00:16:24] Speaker 1: four twenty six twenty two may approach yes thank you thank you [00:16:39] Miss Roberts: do you have the pages after this i'm sure i do because in the pages after this i say my question [00:16:46] Speaker 1: miss roberts is is that a quote that i just said is that accurate do you see it in the in the yes it is okay may approach yes just for reference i'd like to i'm going to change both pages that's the page i asked you to look at and then the following page as well please take your time okay [00:17:12] Miss Roberts: what i'm looking for still not here because i did say i wasn't sure if it was before or after miss [00:17:17] Speaker 1: roberts you do have to wait for a question when you gave this testimony you were in front of a grand jury correct i'm not sure which one that is um do you remember testifying in front of a grand jury on april 26th 2022 yes okay about two years ago yes um sorry three years ago uh you were under oath at the time is that right yes they were fresher in your mind at that time than they are now three and a half years later i'm guessing right yes okay uh you were asked the the question to describe the circumstance when you arrived at one meadows is that right yes and the answer that you gave was quote we pulled into the it's a driveway there's two cars and then two cars then a single so john's car is there karen pulls in and i pull in behind her when we get out and karen is now showing us the back of the tail sorry the back of the car saying my tail light do you think i hit him do you think i hit him oh my god do you guys think i hit him that was your testimony at the time correct yes just to be clear i'd like to take a look at a quick video uh that you may or may not have seen before we'll find out your honor i'd like to have this actually this has already been previously marked as exhibit 12 c as in charlie okay and it's a short clip so i'll play the entire clip with the court's permission okay let's go ahead and take a look at that video can you pause do you recognize what's depicted in the video yeah that's when we arrived at john's house okay and who's the person with the plaid red pants that is jen and who's the person that's just rounding the back of the car in front that is karen what is the car in front that's karen's suv that's the lexus suv yes it is behind that lexus suv miss roberts is there another car that's my car and who's getting out of that car i am okay and this is the point that you were describing in your at least in the grand jury testimony at that time yes this is the time that [00:19:45] Miss Roberts: you're describing that i thought it was when we walked in this is the time that you were describing [00:19:49] Speaker 1: right when you arrive at the scene yes oh i'm sorry arrive at one meadows yes okay let's go ahead and play this through okay you can stop it um and you can bring the lights up you saw the interaction between all three of you and the vehicles correct yeah at any point did anybody stop and take a look at the tail light or the rear end of the car not when we were entering the house like i thought but when we came out okay and there's no video of that i'm sorry there's no video of that no i don't believe so right so the video that does exist describes nearly exactly the time that you testified that y'all stopped at the back of the taillight and karen said look my taillight's broken oh my god do you think i hit him correct okay uh and that obviously was incorrect it was incorrect so your memory was faulty about that incident that part of that incident at least it happened on the way out of the house so your memory was faulty about that part of the incident that you testified to at the grand jury yes okay um you were interviewed on january 29th you've already testified to that correct by troopers done and um [00:21:15] Miss Roberts: my memory is failing me now there were two i don't know who they were okay i'm sure it's in [00:21:20] Speaker 1: my notes somewhere uh two individuals that interviewed you on january 29th correct yes obviously things were very very fresh in your mind at that point yes but i believe i was in shock so the incident had just happened yes okay and you were asked to recount certain of the specifics about the incident that you had just experienced not days or weeks but just hours before correct yes okay and you did your best i'm sure miss roberts to to be as full-throated as possible to uh provide them with as much detailed information as you could and to be as honest as you could yes i mean you weren't gonna lie to these police officers right no in your very first conversation with those two troopers on january 29th you didn't mention anything about a tail light or a cracked tail light no i did not seen a crack [00:22:18] Miss Roberts: tail light no i did not okay i didn't want to accuse anybody of anything you were then interviewed on [00:22:24] Speaker 1: february 1st 2022 a few days later correct i don't know does that sound right exact date i was interviewed [00:22:33] Miss Roberts: again but i don't know the exact date okay um during your interview [00:22:44] Speaker 1: let me withdraw that and ask a different question on february 1st or whatever day it was the the subsequent time that you were interviewed just a few days later you did then for the first time describe the tail light that you saw correct i don't know would it refresh your recollection if you looked at a report yes please okay i'm handing you a two-page recording roberts i put a little dot on the second page just to direct your attention to the discussion we like related to the tail light if you want to take a look at that okay okay okay yeah yes does that refresh your recollection that you were interviewed on february 1st 2022 by a trooper by the name of connor keith uh and a trooper by the name of kathleen prince yes did connor keith write that report i'm sorry did connor keith write that report trooper kathleen prince wrote the report okay uh does that matter no no okay uh does that refresh your recollection that you did discuss the tail light at that time yes and did you tell trooper prince and trooper keith that you noticed the back right tail light in the middle quote in the middle your words was broken and a piece of the metal encasement was [00:24:17] Speaker 4: pushed forward yes okay you didn't say that the entire lens was missing correct correct you said it was [00:24:30] Speaker 1: broken in the middle yes um and then you described today that a square piece was missing yes that's the piece i was referring to in the middle just in the middle of the tail light though that was how you described it yes okay um i'd like to shift gears for a quick second and talk about a march 7th 2023 text message with victim witness advocate steve nelson do you remember communicating you don't have to know the exact date but if you do fine do you remember communicating in march of 2023 with victim witness advocate steve nelson about the ring camera at one meadows um i don't know the exact date but yes okay uh is it true that you contacted him to inform him that the o'keefe's needed to replace or wanted to replace the driveway ring camera that same ring camera that we just literally saw through that perspective yes of you arriving yes did mr nelson indicate that he believed that would be fine to replace to replace that ring camera uh if the o'keefe's wished to do that i don't remember if he said it would be fine but [00:25:52] Miss Roberts: at some point they were told they could replace it it had broken it wasn't working did he indicate [00:25:57] Speaker 1: that uh he would check with dda adam lally uh and then get back to you i don't know at some point you were informed that the o'keefe's got had sort of had the green light or the go ahead to replace that ring camera at one meadows is that right yes okay uh and then ultimately you then relayed that to the o'keefe's that they had the green light you've talked to somebody at the da's office and they said yeah go ahead and replace the camera correct yes okay um did you ever receive any kind of response from the da's office either before or after you relayed this information to the o'keefe's to say wait hold on we need to do a reconstruction uh we need to make sure that the camera is in the exact same spot that it was at the time of the incident no any any communication like that no so the communication that you got was yep go ahead and replace it it's no big deal correct okay ultimately uh you learned that the o'keefe's did in fact replace that ring camera correct you have already described uh your relationship at least in part with canton police officer sergeant michael lank correct yes [00:27:23] Miss Roberts: he is friends with you his daughter is friends with my daughter [00:27:27] Speaker 1: your friend lee with the family yes okay and you're aware that he's also friends with the albert family no well no were you aware that he that michael like grew up with chris albert i was not have you ever been in a social setting with both the lengths and the alberts no you're aware obviously you were at the scene he was the first officer to respond to the crime scene at 34 fairview on january 29th after uh officer serif and after malaney arrived [00:28:00] Miss Roberts: right then it was sergeant lank i don't know which order i did see sergeant lank there yes [00:28:05] Speaker 1: was he the um was he the um was he the excuse me oh i was just reminded you indicated that you don't remember the date of that tax communication between yourself and um and mr nelson no i don't remember the date would it refresh your recollection if you looked at a text message between the two of you about this the subject of the ring camera [00:28:33] Miss Roberts: sure okay do i need to know the date may i approach i used to know the date okay sorry is it march 7th 2023 is that your recollection yeah okay thank you [00:28:59] Speaker 1: you indicated that you did recognize uh sergeant lank at the scene yes i did you had a conversation with [00:29:05] Miss Roberts: him no i said mike is that you he said yes and that was it all right uh following that the next day [00:29:14] Speaker 1: you did go to his house you've already described that i did uh you indicated that you went to his house to drop off your daughter for a play date is that right yes but you also indicated that you took [00:29:24] Miss Roberts: jennifer mccabe with you yes because i drove jen mccabe to the o'keefe's house so she was leaving to go [00:29:31] Speaker 1: home with me so i was going to drop her off okay so your memory is you took miss mccabe from where over to the lanks house i think she was at home so you picked her up yes at her house yes with anybody else [00:29:47] Miss Roberts: with my daughter my son i picked up her and either one or two of her daughters i don't remember [00:29:55] Speaker 1: and then you drove over to to the lanks house is that right no i drove to the o'keefe's house first [00:30:00] Miss Roberts: yes and what did you do with you then left a couple of kids and my daughter wanted to go to the lanks house so i drove my daughter to the lanks house before driving home and jen's child was with [00:30:12] Speaker 1: you on the way from jen's house over to the o'keefe's house yes one or two daughters i don't know dropped the one or two kids off at the o'keefe's is that right as well as my son as well as your son then you went to drop off your daughter for the play date well she was 13 so it wasn't a play date whatever i don't know i know i know i don't have a 13 year old what a date date whatever it is so she went over to her friend's house yes okay uh but you took jennifer mccabe with you yes because i was driving her home back to her house without her kids yes she was going home were you going to go back to the o'keefe's and pick up her kids and then take all of them home i didn't have a plan i mean [00:30:57] Miss Roberts: patrick okay nephew is my son's best friend got so he wanted to be with him okay [00:31:06] Speaker 1: did you i think you just answered this but i'm want to make sure i'm clear about it you didn't take separate cars you all went in the same car is that right correct okay um did anybody stop by or go by 34 fairview during that that roundabout no nobody stopped off at that 34 fairview either on the way or on the way back no okay [00:31:34] Miss Roberts: i don't believe so that wouldn't be the route in which to get to my house right exactly um [00:31:41] Speaker 1: you indicated that you stayed even though you were dropping off your daughter y'all stayed you and miss mccabe stayed at sergeant lank's house for some 45 minutes does that sound about right yeah and sergeant lank's wife you indicated was in the back seat of your car yes did y'all ever go inside [00:32:00] Miss Roberts: the house uh jen went in to go to the bathroom was sergeant like there i don't know i didn't go in [00:32:07] Speaker 1: you didn't have any communications with sergeant lank i'm sorry you didn't have any communications with sergeant lank himself mike lank on that trip no i did not but you don't know whether or not jen did [00:32:17] Miss Roberts: i don't know whether or not jen did she went in the house to go to the bathroom okay [00:32:30] Speaker 1: you've indicated that there have been occurrences in which jennifer mccabe has asked you to contact the da's office on her behalf to ask a question here or there uh get some information correct to steve nelson yes okay how many times just the number of times the volume would you say that miss mccabe has asked you to reach out to the da's office in one particular or another um not i don't [00:32:53] Miss Roberts: think very many what does that mean of the 50 times that you've had no maybe like four not many to my [00:33:00] Speaker 1: knowledge when you would on these four occasions or four or so occasions when you would reach out to the da's office gather information whatever that information may be uh would you then report that information back to miss mccabe yes okay you obviously understand the importance of providing statements to law enforcement that are free of influence of other people other witnesses is that right say it again you understand the importance of providing information to law enforcement as a witness to law enforcement free of influence from other people yeah in other words you want to be as accurate and as independent as possible yes um and that's because if if your statement is somehow or if you're communications with law enforcement are somehow influenced by others it might call into to question the credibility of the person providing the statement [00:34:10] Speaker 3: objection do you can you answer that question ms roberts no okay next question sure [00:34:17] Speaker 1: a statement that's been colored by influence from someone else would lack credibility right objection sustained i want to talk about the statements in the prior testimony that you have provided in this case ms roberts uh there's been several of them the first time you told your story law enforcement was on january 29th we've already established that correct say that again it was on january 29th the first time you you relayed your story to law enforcement yes and that was to uh trooper dunn and trooper de chico that's the name i couldn't remember i don't remember but you do remember trooper dunn i remember two troopers i don't know their name okay where did that interview take place in my dining room and who was with you when you gave that interview if anybody my husband was home [00:35:08] Miss Roberts: i don't think my i think my daughter was home at that point i don't my husband was home i don't [00:35:12] Speaker 1: know if the kids were home nobody else from outside the family no okay who contacted you about doing that interview how did they know to come to you at your home i don't remember they may have just shown up i don't remember okay um do you remember what time the interview was maybe around dinner time [00:35:30] Miss Roberts: maybe around five six was it recorded i'm sorry was it recorded in any way tape recorder running i don't [00:35:43] Speaker 1: think so the troopers were taking notes obviously i believe so during your conversation with uh and i'm jumping around a bit so i apologize during your conversation or conversations with mr brennan and the da's members of the da's office in preparation for your testimony were any of those interviews recorded no was anybody taking notes no no none of the da's were actually taking notes the ada's [00:36:07] Miss Roberts: i didn't look around the table to see if anyone was taking notes but i didn't see them taking notes no pads and pins on the table there was a lot of stuff on the table but i didn't see anybody taking [00:36:17] Speaker 1: notes okay um you received a phone call just before that interview started [00:36:29] Miss Roberts: at 5 25 pm correct around five o'clock six o'clock is this the night of the 29th you mean this is the [00:36:36] Speaker 1: night i'm jumping back to the night of the 29th yeah i'm not following you very well that's okay um on the 29th yeah you're interviewed around 5 25 pm maybe just a little bit before that yeah you received a phone call just before that correct i do not know uh isn't it true that jen mccabe called you [00:36:53] Miss Roberts: and spoke to you just before that i spoke to jen mccabe the entire day okay including just before that [00:37:00] Speaker 1: interview i don't know did you tell jen mccabe that you were about to be interviewed no did you tell her at some point um that did you text her and tell her that the officers had arrived i don't think so did she text you back and say call me right after i don't think i don't know okay um during the course of that interview when the incident was still pretty fresh in your mind you indicated that at about 5 a.m you got a call from karen reed indicating that john never came home and that she was worried correct correct you also indicated that she was worried that john may be walking and may have gotten hit by a plow you relayed that to the the officers yes you indicated that you met up with karen reed and jennifer mccabe at jennifer mccabe's house and karen was hysterical and worried that something had happened to john yes you also indicated that once you were at 34 fairview once you all had made your way over to 34 fairview karen saw john and ran to him although you and jennifer didn't see him initially correct that's correct you said that karen was repeating the phrase is he dead is he dead over and over is that right that is correct you also indicated that if anything she said that if anything happened to john uh she'd kill herself correct that's what she said [00:38:20] Speaker 3: to me object so the objection sustained [00:38:27] Speaker 1: did you indicate at any time i'm sorry let me ask a different way did either the troopers indicate to you after your your initial interview uh that if there was anything further that you could recall that would be useful please provide it please give it to at that time i don't know okay uh would it refresh your recollection to look at that january 29th report sure thank you on the second page of that report january 29th and there i put a little mark by paragraph five if you could take a look at that okay ma'am yes during this interview with trooper dunn and chico they indicated after you gave your statement that if you wish to provide anything additional now is the time to do it objection sustained were you informed that you were limited on time uh in that interview meaning we got to get this done we're leaving we're out of time no they didn't cut you off correct no they didn't tell you that that they had a limited amount of information that they wanted [00:39:43] Miss Roberts: and then they were just going to leave correct i don't remember i don't recall as a matter of fact [00:39:47] Speaker 1: they told you that anything you wanted to provide to them provide it give them as much detail as you could correct i don't recall um you just read the the last statement that these troopers indicated correct if there's anything further she could recall that would be useful please provide that information exactly this is me may we approach [00:40:13] Speaker 3: yes [00:40:18] Speaker 1: may i yes thank you uh having looked at the no no bring it to her and show it to her again she's just it's the same thing that i just showed her having looked at the report does that refresh your recollection about what trooper paul i'm sorry trooper dunn and chico told you at the end of the [00:40:31] Miss Roberts: interview i don't recall it's not refreshing i'm not remembering it even reading it i'm not remembering [00:40:37] Speaker 1: it i see okay fair enough so as you sit here the details about what you told or what uh those two officers told you are not fresh in your mind and nothing's refreshing your recollection about that right okay but you do remember the basics of what i just described in that conversation with those [00:40:56] Miss Roberts: two troopers i mean i they asked me what happened i told them but i was also in shock you never said [00:41:04] Speaker 1: during the course of that interview that my client called you at five o'clock in the morning just hours earlier and said he's dead and then hung up correct no i don't believe i said it at that point [00:41:15] Miss Roberts: it did not i did not remember that until a couple days later i see uh and in fact when you were asked [00:41:24] Speaker 1: about that particular statement i'm sorry when you asked about that particular series of events that never came to your mind no that literally the first words out of karen reed's mouth according to you now is he's dead and then hung up correct when you heard that you didn't take that to mean that she killed him no of course not she was panicked correct yes you did add that um i'm sorry one other thing that you didn't add in your initial statement to trooper dunn and trooper to chico is anything about the tail light either correct not okay um and you also didn't say anything about any sort of a google search or the the praying that you talked about in the in the back of the the patrol car anything like that no i don't know i don't remember the second time you were interviewed that was the february 1st interview that was with kathleen prince and conor keith correct and you just looked at that report at least part of that report is that right say it again conor keith and kathleen prince that was on february 1st three days after your initial statement correct i don't remember the date but i remember meeting with them okay i want to make sure i get the dates down so i i'm sorry to belabor this but may i approach yes would you recollect that you would look at the report of that interview [00:43:01] Miss Roberts: it might okay first paragraph thanks am i reading the whole thing or just the part where you dotted oh for the date yes [00:43:17] Speaker 1: yes what date was it february 1st that second interview was conducted at 12 country lane correct yes and who again lives at 12 country [00:43:34] Miss Roberts: lane jennifer mccabe [00:43:38] Speaker 1: so the second time you told your memory uh your story to law enforcement you were literally sitting in jennifer mccabe's house yes and you had met with jennifer mccabe before your interview correct yes we were putting a timeline together so you two were actually prepping that's a valid term prepping [00:44:00] Miss Roberts: for your interview putting a timeline together correct we were putting a timeline together at the [00:44:05] Speaker 1: request of mrs o'keefe and she was she jennifer mccabe was helping you with the timeline and you [00:44:11] Miss Roberts: were helping her with the timeline yes we were putting together the events of what had happened so [00:44:15] Speaker 1: she was helping you and you were helping her yes or no yes okay uh so both of you were assisting in each others memories correct yes i remember this and you remember this and you know okay now i remember this correct yeah obviously uh that would help influence your memory going over the event with someone someone else correct yeah so what's on that timeline you would agree is not completely independent your memory it's a combination of your memory and jennifer mccabe's memory isn't that right yes so the two of you drew out some sort of a timeline for you to follow during the course of that interview is that right for me to follow what during the course of that that february first interview as you were interviewed in miss mccabe's house i mean that was the purpose of the timeline [00:45:09] Miss Roberts: to help you with that interview no that wasn't the purpose of the timeline you used it for that purpose though obviously we did not i was at jen's house making a timeline and the two officers showed up to [00:45:21] Speaker 1: interview her i just happened to be there right and when they interviewed you did you have that timeline in front of you that's my question no i did not okay but you had just created it with along with jennifer mccabe some of it okay um and then it was after that uh that this timeline was coordinated between the two of you that you actually told your second story to to print and when i say second story i mean as the second time you were interviewed on february 1st as opposed to january 29th is that right yes did you ever become aware of text messages that jennifer mccabe was sending to others in a group chat talking about you in that interview no you were never told or became aware that she sent text messages to a group as she listened in on your interview no i don't think she could listen in she wasn't anywhere near me you weren't aware that she are are you aware as you sit here that she sent a text message that said she's telling them everything all the stuff sustained have you ever been provided a text message or told about a text message that perhaps jennifer mccabe was sending to a group no listening to your to your uh suggesting that she was listening to your interview no the third time you told your story was later that night in a telephonic interview is that right [00:46:57] Miss Roberts: with trooper proctor i requested to speak to trooper proctor because i had remembered the very first time i spoke with karen that morning and i wanted to make sure it was recorded [00:47:08] Speaker 1: okay that wasn't my question my question was did you have another telephonic conversation with trooper [00:47:14] Miss Roberts: roctor yes or no you said that night but it wasn't that night when was it i think it was earlier that [00:47:20] Speaker 1: day okay meaning but it was after the interview with trooper prince i don't think so i think it was beforehand i think it was beforehand you were still with jennifer mccabe when that tall call took place [00:47:32] Miss Roberts: correct i was in her house i was not with her i stepped away to speak to him by myself [00:47:38] Speaker 1: in her home at 12 country lane correct who else was with you other than other than jennifer mccabe [00:47:47] Miss Roberts: in the house uh her sister was there writing down the timeline for us her sister denise denise [00:47:55] Speaker 1: so she was scribing the timeline as you and jennifer mccabe were creating she was writing it [00:47:59] Miss Roberts: down as we were remembering things right um and the three of you were doing this together sort of [00:48:04] Speaker 1: communally yes she would say something then you would say something then it would spark something that she would say and back and forth yes how is it that trooper proctor got a hold of you did you call him or did he call you [00:48:20] Miss Roberts: i think he was on the phone with jen and i asked to speak to him so he trooper proctor [00:48:27] Speaker 1: got a hold of you through talking to jen mccabe well i asked to speak to him but yes right was that interview recorded to your knowledge i don't know um the fourth time you met with police was february 2nd the very next day at about 1208 pm is that right i don't remember do you remember providing signing a a consent form uh for your phone yes was that the next day after this interview [00:48:59] Miss Roberts: with uh trooper prince and trooper i don't know what day it was it was um right after karen was arraigned for the first time jen and i met with them and both handed our phones over willingly [00:49:09] Speaker 1: so you just answered my question so when you met with police whatever the date was it was a few days later you met with police you had a fourth time you were still in the presence of jennifer mccabe when you met with police yes and handed your phone over is that right yes she handed her phone over is that right yes and the two of you were together when you signed your consent forms is that right yes the fifth time you told your story was in front of a grand jury is that right i don't know do you remember testifying in front of a grand jury i do let's talk about that for a second before you testified at that grand jury just physically you were brought into an anti-room where you waited to be called by ada adam lowland correct yes who was in that anti-room with you just before you gave your testimony um my husband and jen and matt mccabe so jennifer mccabe was with you yet again just before you gave yeah official testimony under oath concerning this case and concerning the incident correct miss roberts when was the last time you've spoken to jennifer mccabe before you testified [00:50:25] Miss Roberts: in this trial in this this morning [00:50:33] Speaker 1: did you discuss your testimony no so you and miss mccabe who became friends because of this incident correct talked as recently as this morning before your testimony correct and your testimony now is that you did not discuss anything about what you're doing here no or what you're going to do not she called to wish me good luck today when did you talk to the last time before this before this morning [00:51:01] Miss Roberts: i don't know maybe a couple days ago i don't remember within days have you taken the stand yesterday [00:51:08] Speaker 1: correct yes miss roberts i'm going to ask you to take a look at actually let me ask a different way uh did you say that you did or did not recall texting with jen mccabe during the course of that january 29th [00:51:33] Miss Roberts: interview with state police do you recall that or no to no okay during the interview i didn't text [00:51:40] Speaker 1: anybody okay are you saying you didn't text anybody or or you don't recall what i don't recall i don't [00:51:47] Miss Roberts: think i had my i wouldn't i wouldn't be texting somebody if i was being interviewed by the state police right [00:51:52] Speaker 1: uh okay would it refresh your recollection to take a look at a better report of text messages sure may i approach you off yes take a look there's two tabs take a look at the tabs and the and the data across the two tabs which you're absolutely absolutely i'm in the rush so can you may i yes [00:52:27] Speaker 3: okay cheers feel free to stand up and stretch if you'd like and i forgot to tell you anytime we're at sidebar please feel free to stand up and stretch okay [00:52:41] Speaker 1: that was quicker than we thought judge may i proceed yes okay uh did you take a look at this document yes does that refresh your recollection that there were two text messages at around the time of your interview with uh with those two troopers no uh did you do you recall as you sit here uh texting miss mccabe that the state troopers were arriving or they're just getting there no do you recall miss mccabe texting you anything back about calling me after no okay did you in fact different question did you in fact call miss mccabe right after the interview and talk to her i don't know have you ever testified that at the scene miss reed was seated in the back of a patrol car along with jennifer mccabe and you were standing just outside the car and there was an interaction among the three of you yes have you ever testified or have you ever said stated in any particular that during that interaction karen asked the three of you to pray yes have you ever said or testified that during that interaction where you're seated there where they are seated in the back of the patrol car and miss reed asked you to pray that miss reed said to jennifer mccabe google hypothermia no you've never said that i've never said that you testified at the grand jury on april 26th is that right april 26 2022 i do not know right [00:54:38] Speaker 4: does that sound right 26 2022 i have no idea maybe april 2022 [00:54:45] Speaker 1: i don't know it was 2022 you you testified uh under oath correct yes so the same oath that you swore here yes truth the whole truth and nothing about the truth is that right yeah is your testimony that you have never said that karen told jen to google hypothermia or that you don't recall saying that i don't recall saying that would it refresh your recollection to look at portion of your grand jury testimony from that day it might may i approach yes [00:55:34] Miss Roberts: thank you yep i testified i didn't hear it but i was told that she was asked to google it [00:55:48] Speaker 1: you testified under oath at the grand jury that at some point uh karen was in back of the police cruiser correct yep objection no i'll allow that question does that refresh your recollection as to what you told the grand jury yes and isn't it true that at some point during the the course of your testimony under oath you said that karen was in the back of the police cruiser yes and then you went on to describe that karen and jen and i were standing outside and she made us all start holding hands and starting to pray yes i mean what the she being karen reed yes um and at this point they had lifted john up and taken him onto the gurney correct i don't know described i don't i don't recall okay i'm gonna do this again just so [00:56:38] Miss Roberts: we're clear yeah i say i think so i'm not positive i have a question for you okay yes [00:56:53] Speaker 1: and you testified basically that you think at least that's what you were telling the grand jurors you think that was the point at which they lifted john up yes and moved him into the ambulance correct is that right yes then you were asked a question what if anything did she miss reed ask miss mccabe while they were sitting in the back of the cruiser that you heard correct objection do you recall that [00:57:18] Miss Roberts: i did not hear the question about google being asked that's not my question may i ask may inquire [00:57:27] Speaker 1: just repeat that question sure isn't it true that you were next asked by mr lally in front of the grounds or quote what if anything did she miss reed ask miss mccabe while they were sitting in the back of the cruiser that you heard in quote remember being asked that question no [00:57:55] Speaker 4: does this is the question that was the question that you were asked yes okay and in response to that [00:58:22] Speaker 1: you stated quote at one point she asked her to google hypothermia and how long google hypothermia correct i'm sorry yes that was very detailed you'll agree that that's a very detailed and specific recount of an event you recounted where you were back of a cruiser or they were in the back of a cruiser correct yep you recorded or reported the time it was right around the time that you thought they were lifting john up [00:59:01] Speaker 3: and scooped him up onto the gurney correct yeah i thought it was about that time i wasn't sure i'm sorry i didn't get that answer you were talking over each other that's my mistake who was your answer [00:59:11] Miss Roberts: ms roger i thought it was about the time they lifted him up but i wasn't sure okay uh you were very [00:59:16] Speaker 1: very detailed about who was there it was you it was jen it was my client karen reed correct is that right yes you're so detailed that you talked about where you were standing next to the cruiser cruiser open door correct yes what the others were doing holding hands and praying is that right yes and the actual words used you were as detailed about all of that as the actual words used she asked her to google hypothermia and how long and then you stopped google hypothermia end quote correct correct you will agree at least for that purpose you painted a very very detailed picture [00:59:59] Miss Roberts: in front of the grand jury didn't you yeah except it's not true is it i did not hear her ask that i [01:00:08] Speaker 1: was told she was asked that in the answer to my question mr roberts and i'm not a trick question [01:00:16] Speaker 4: what you told the grand jurors was not true you never heard her my client asked anyone to do anything i did not and yet that's what you testified to under oath under the penalty of perjury in front of the [01:00:33] Speaker 1: grand jury didn't you i did and the reason you did that the reason that you said that false statement [01:00:41] Speaker 4: was because someone told you to say it correct object is that i'm going to let her answer nobody told [01:00:49] Miss Roberts: me to say it i knew it happened at that time how did you know why i said it how did you know it [01:00:55] Speaker 1: happened miss roberts if no one told you it happened because we wrote a timeline we already spoke about [01:01:00] Speaker 4: that timeline that jennifer mccabe helped you with that influenced your testimony in front of the grand jury [01:01:07] Miss Roberts: correct obviously i i was telling what happened in the back of the cruiser [01:01:16] Speaker 3: so that when you ask a question let her answer okay [01:01:20] Speaker 4: timeline you wrote jennifer mccabe's help influenced your testimony to testify in front of the grand jurors to the statement that you never heard correct yes [01:01:38] Speaker 1: you were later asked about that statement in another investigation i'm sorry by another investigator or set of investigators correct i don't know were you interviewed by a different law enforcement agency a separate law enforcement agency from the massachusetts state police at any time of the law enforcement agency from the first law enforcement agency you were told that to lie [01:02:04] Speaker 4: to those agents would be a crime yes punishable by prison correct i was not told that [01:02:17] Speaker 1: they asked you whether or not you heard karen reed ever say anything to jennifer mccabe about googling anything correct i don't know isn't it true that you told them what you've just now told us which is i did not hear karen reed asked jennifer mccabe to conduct any google searches i don't recall it will refresh your collection to look at a copy of that interview and that report sure i'm going to ask you to take a look at the entire document just to familiarize yourself with it if you don't mind go to the front page and don't answer anything about the document until i ask your question if you don't mind please sure thank you mr roberts do you recognize that as being a report of an interview that you conducted um i've never seen this before but understood yeah you may never have seen it but does it remind you that that that's yes report of a conversation you had with another law enforcement agency i'm going to ask you to turn to page seven of that report and if you look there's a small paragraph about two paragraphs up from the bottom i think i may put a little blue dot by it but i'm not sure please read that to yourself [01:03:51] Speaker 3: correct [01:03:55] Speaker 1: done yep thank you may approach yes mr roberts does that refresh your recollection about what you told these investigators yes and what you told them was you quote did not hear karen reed asked jennifer mccabe to conduct any google that is correct and you went on to say you saw mccabe on her phone i'll allow it you saw mccabe on her phone but you did not hear karen asked jennifer to google anything correct so what you told the grand jurors was in fact [01:04:45] Miss Roberts: false i misunderstood mr lally's question got it thank you okay mr brennan any questions thank you thank [01:04:55] Speaker 5: thank you thank you when you spoke to the grand jury about your memory were you trying to fool them in [01:05:04] Speaker 3: any way no were you trying to watch the form of your questions were you trying to mislead them in [01:05:12] Speaker 5: any way objection sustain watch the form of your questions when you spoke to the grand jury were you honest yes when you were asked the question what if anything did the defendant ask mr mccabe could you begin your response by saying at one point you can show her her response [01:05:40] Speaker 6: am i correct yes page 83 line 19 19. just read it to yourself in the lines of quality [01:06:04] Speaker 5: when you were asked that question by mr lally at the grand jury did you ever say you specifically personally heard that statement i'll allow that did you tell the grand jury you actually heard that statement being made i did not and when you spoke to the people in that report that you looked at on page seven did you ever tell them you specifically heard that statement being made no were you consistent in both of those statements motion sustained did you say anything different as far as what you personally observed between those statements i'll allow that no and when you were asked about what the defendant may have said to mrs mccabe uh to miss mccabe or mrs mccabe um did you generalize your answer objection sustained did you begin your answer with at one point yes when you chose the words at one point what were you trying to convey to the grand jury [01:07:07] Miss Roberts: i'll allow that i didn't know at what time it was done was that a topic of conversation around the time [01:07:16] Speaker 5: you were brought to the grand jury at the around the time one that you were brought to the grand jury to testify this google search was it i don't know okay were you asked here in front of this jury whether or not you personally heard that statement yes by me did i ask you that question no did you personally hear that statement no after this happened you discussed what had happened with people didn't you i'm sorry say it again after you found john lying in the snow did you discuss what had happened what you saw with other people yes did anybody tell you that you couldn't discuss the trauma that you had been through objection i'm going to allow that say it again did anybody tell you that you couldn't discuss what you had just seen no didn't say it again i'm sorry after you found john that morning did anybody civilian or law enforcement ever tell you you weren't allowed to discuss what you had just went through no did anybody ever tell you that you couldn't have support of other people no i'll allow that no was this a traumatic event yes have you spoken to it about to a number of people about it yes tell us why you would want to speak to somebody about what happened that morning i'm going to allow that um i've spoken to many people [01:08:49] Miss Roberts: obviously that we all grew up with um but jen in particular i do speak to her i am friends with her we went through a really traumatic traumatic experience together did you ever confide in other people [01:09:02] Speaker 5: other than jen mccabe about what you endured that morning yes many people why because it's it helps me [01:09:11] Miss Roberts: get through and um it's one of john's family friends whoever we've talked to a number of people about it [01:09:22] Speaker 5: you're friends with john's parents parents john's john's parents yes he's still friends with them yes do you ever discuss what happened yes you were asked by law enforcement if they could have your telephone yes was there a warrant objection sustained ask it differently did you feel like you had any obligation legal obligation to give [01:09:55] Miss Roberts: your phone to law enforcement objection no they asked for my phone i handed it over willingly did you think you had to no but there was no reason not to when they went through your phone do you know [01:10:10] Speaker 5: whether they saw all of your phone calls that were on that phone objection do you know that i don't [01:10:17] Speaker 3: know they cloned my phone so i assume they saw everything i'm going to strike that answer so the [01:10:22] Speaker 5: answer is i don't know what type of information did you have on your phone when you voluntarily gave [01:10:26] Miss Roberts: it objection i'll allow that um text messages phone calls call logs pictures [01:10:40] Speaker 5: you said that you stayed friendly and still are friendly with peggy o'keefe and john senior yes okay at some point at some point at times do you try to help them with things daily do you try to help them with the children sustained well you were asked about contacting the district attorney's office about replacing a ring camera yes whose ring camera was that it was at [01:11:10] Miss Roberts: one meadows where mr and mrs o'keefe john's parents are now living who um what motivated you to call the [01:11:17] Speaker 5: district attorney's office about the district attorney's office about the ring camera because we knew [01:11:21] Miss Roberts: the ring might be some sort of evidence that they didn't want to take the camera that was not [01:11:26] Speaker 5: working down without permission do you have a ring camera i do do you know if there's a difference between the actual physical camera and the icloud storage that keeps the actual video on it i don't know the difference okay um did you ever ask to replace any hard drives or storage or were you asking to replace the camera itself just the camera and that was in march 7 2023 i don't know when you were asked questions about what the defendant said that morning when you were trying to help mr o'keefe yes you were asked whether you heard any comments about her from her about dropping john off say that one more time you were asked whether you heard any comments about her saying she dropped him off in the car on the way to the hospital okay she said it to mrs o'keefe when you were outside trying to help john were you ever told where the defendant dropped john off no were you ever told where he was left no was it ever suggested that he went into 34 fairview no was it ever suggested that he went into any house whatsoever that morning no you ever asked to go into the house to look for him no when you were being influenced when you were being interviewed by law enforcement did you ever refuse to be interviewed no were the interviews all the same or different they were all different they were all different um were you ever asked to give a complete review in detail of everything that you knew [01:13:32] Miss Roberts: um i was just asked to tell me the story of what happened that morning and at some point when you [01:13:39] Speaker 5: were interviewed you were asked about the phone calls that the defendant made to you that morning at five o'clock yes when you received those phone calls jennifer mccabe was not on the line was she no was she a party to the calls no did she influence your memory in any way about the words that the defendant spoke to you that morning objection i'll allow that no do you have a clear memory of what the defendant said to you on the morning of january 29 2022 at around five in the morning when she first called you yes is it your independent memory i'm saying is it your independent memory yes how well do you remember how well do you remember it sustained tell us what you remember her saying [01:14:33] Miss Roberts: to you i'll allow it when she first called she said john's dead carrie carrie and hung up [01:14:42] Speaker 5: and she called you back she called back when she called back was there any other party on the line other than you and her no what do you remember the second time that she called you yes [01:14:57] Miss Roberts: she said john i think he got hit by a plow he did not come home last night he would never not have come home i wasn't supposed to stay in canton and kaylee was here he would never leave kaylee by herself [01:15:16] Speaker 5: did anybody ever ask you to lie no or exaggerate no would you say that would you no sustained you asked whether or not you told people on january 29th about the missing pieces to the defendant's tail light and you began to say you didn't tell anybody that morning i didn't think it had anything [01:15:44] Miss Roberts: to do with john i didn't want to point fingers at anybody why not because i had no idea what had [01:15:50] Speaker 5: happened to him i wasn't going to point fingers at his girlfriend um was it in fact broken with missing pieces that morning yes you saw the ring video of you and miss mccabe and the defendant going into john's house yes had you seen that video before today yes had you been shown it before other proceedings yes when you went into the house with miss mccabe and the defendant did you do anything before you went into the house actually in the house [01:16:35] Miss Roberts: when i took off we took off our shoes in the you took off your shoes we jen and i both took off our boots why did you take off your boots because you had to take off your shoes to go into john's house [01:16:45] Speaker 5: well you say you had to explain to us a little bit of the background on that john [01:16:50] Miss Roberts: was a neat freak you were not allowed to wear shoes in the house had you ever worn shoes in [01:16:55] Speaker 5: this house no had you ever seen anybody wear shoes in this house no you and miss do now they do now let's see you and miss mccabe took your shoes off yes did the defendant take her shoes [01:17:08] Miss Roberts: off she did not how do you remember that because jen and i was standing there for about a good two minutes trying to get her boots off and she had already gone in the house [01:17:21] Speaker 5: do you know why you were called that morning no did you volunteer to be part of this yes after the call yes you had said you thought that you were you looked at the tail light before you went into john's house yes do you remember actually seeing the tail light that morning i do was it simply cracked no uh do you know that the portion of the ring video from when you came out of the house with the defendant miss mccabe do you know that that portion is missing sustained have you ever seen any ring video depicting when the defendant was showing you her missing pieces of taillight that morning no despite no video you certain that you saw it say it again are you certain that you looked at it with the defendant that morning in that driveway sustained i'd like to play clip three please okay [01:18:53] Speaker 4: okay [01:19:13] Speaker 6: quiet folks still on the record [01:19:22] Speaker 5: all right go ahead mr brennan when you first got to john and you were trying to save him that morning do you have a distinct memory of it yes counsel had asked you if it was your story was this a story say it again was it a story that you told a story yes it's what happened do you wish it was just a story objection system [01:19:47] Speaker 3: there's no further questions okay so recross [01:19:53] Speaker 1: just asked just a few minutes ago did you ever say that you actually heard that statement about that google search and you said no correct correct the question that was posed to you by mr lally was what if anything did she miss reed ask miss mccabe while they were sitting in the back of the cruiser that you heard correct i misunderstood the question and you're you misunderstood that question yes [01:20:34] Miss Roberts: what did you misunderstand about that question i didn't know it was that you heard so i was explaining [01:20:40] Speaker 1: what happened in the back of the car i see so you just ignored the part literally the part of the question where he said what did you hear her say that's what your testimony is heard and i didn't [01:20:52] Miss Roberts: i didn't hear it i obviously got the question wrong because i did not hear anybody ask about a google [01:20:57] Speaker 1: search well i know that's what you're saying now i get that but when you were asked what if anything did she ask miss mccabe while they were sitting in the back of the cruiser that you heard your immediate answer was at one point she asked her to google hypothermia and how long dash google hypothermia [01:21:21] Miss Roberts: in quote correct correct that was your answer yes correct to a question i misunderstood and that was a [01:21:27] Speaker 1: false statement wasn't it technically technically yes technically pregnant miss roberts okay so [01:21:38] Speaker 3: remember jurors i said earlier comments of counsel are not evidencing you to disregard them ask a [01:21:44] Miss Roberts: question thank you your honor what do you mean technically technically i was under oath and i did not hear jen karen asked jen to google it and yet under oath but i knew it happened at that and yet under [01:21:56] Speaker 1: oath you said you did correct and that was a lie correct yes was that a lie did you lie i did not [01:22:06] Speaker 3: intentionally but you did and not intentionally okay that that's the end of this is the question mr jackson [01:22:14] Miss Roberts: all right is there any other question or was that it i didn't know what she just said i said i misunderstood the question mr jackson that's what you're saying now correct that's what happened all [01:22:25] Speaker 4: all right can i just one more question okay in that quote you said at one point she asked her to google hypothermia and how long then you corrected yourself and finished with google hypothermia what did you mean by how long what were you about to say i don't recall if someone told you something about a phrase that started how long i don't recall i don't recall like [01:22:58] Speaker 3: for instance how long to die in cold i don't recall okay all right miss mckay i'm sorry thank you [01:23:15] Speaker 5: may i yes sorry i'd like to play clip three [01:23:26] Speaker 7: when my car was seized there was a few small pieces of tail light missing that i had picked out at john's at quarter six before we drove over to fairview i'm showing the jury look what i just did to my like and i'm worried that it's going to there's going to be some kind of electric short circuit there's like the bulb is showing and some of the red plastic's missing so i picked pieces out of the light housing that had kind of collapsed within the light and dropped them in john's driveway [01:23:56] Speaker 5: i'd like to have that marked as an exhibit please okay [01:24:09] Speaker ?: Thank you.