Charlie Adelson Trial (Pt 26) — Charlie: Cross Examination & Redirect

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: The simplest explanation is always the most likely was your explanation to the jury over the last little over a day the simplest explanation it was the truth do you I mean you have a thorough explanation would you agree with that I told you what happened do you agree that the only problem with having an explanation for everything is that there's just so many explanations there's no explanation I explained what happened I want to go through some of that you claim that you were extorted on July 18th 2014 by Catherine Magdano and also in the background some Latin Kings probably Garcia and Rivera right is that accurate no I [00:01:01] Speaker 2: wasn't extorted by Catherine Magdano you weren't that's not what I believed in [00:01:06] Speaker 1: 2014 okay I'm sorry I understood you to say you believe that today today I do [00:01:12] Speaker 2: yes all right so who extorted you I believe that it was Catherine Magdano's friend that she ran her mouth to 2014 right but as you sit here today you think it's [00:01:24] Speaker 1: Magdano and Garcia and Rivera is that accurate no that's not accurate okay who [00:01:29] Speaker 2: extorted you as I sit here today I believe that it was Catherine Magdano and I believe Sigfredo Garcia but I don't know for sure I was never there when she was ever talking to him so I don't know if he was in on it with her or not all right at the [00:01:48] Speaker 1: time though you did not think she was guilty you got that right the time of the extortion yes correct and then so exactly when you found out would be I think you [00:02:04] Speaker 2: said her trial that I suspected that she was not telling the truth and she was a [00:02:10] Speaker 1: part of it was in 2019 her trial yes and so she was arrested in 2016 right yes all right so for three years she was in the Leon County jail awaiting trial yes she was there and you believed she was innocent yes and you had this whole explanation to assist with exonerating her right I have the truth of what happened yes but you didn't offer the truth of what happened did you nobody came came to me I thought the truth would come out does someone have to come to you I was told not to talk [00:02:50] Speaker 2: to Katie and not to talk to anybody about this case by counsel okay so you strike [00:03:00] Speaker 1: that on day one which is July 18 2014 she is the only one that physically contacted you to conduct this extortion am I correct in that yes you are so you never actually had any contact with any Latin King no no phone calls no phone no [00:03:26] Speaker 2: texts no no letters well in 2016 from you're talking about the 14 right I'm [00:03:34] Speaker 1: talking about the first layer of the extortion did you have any contact with the thugs that were getting your money for two years no did anybody put a gun to [00:03:46] Speaker 2: your head I was told that I'd be killed in 48 hours if I didn't pay up I heard you [00:03:51] Speaker 1: say that but my question is did anyone put a gun to your head did you ask me did [00:03:55] Speaker 2: anyone pull a gun on me that's any question no nobody pulled a firearm on [00:04:00] Speaker 1: me right so when Catherine Maddow came to you on July 18th and said open the safe and give me all your money she was not armed she was not carrying a gun that day though were you earned at that time did you have a weapon in your home I have [00:04:14] Speaker 2: weapons in my safe yes [00:04:17] Speaker 1: were the were you led to believe or told that the bad guys are outside right outside your apartment or your residence no but I was led to believe what they did to Dan they were gonna do to me I heard you say that but my question is did she say like the car is running I'm gonna take the money out there to him right now no [00:04:36] Speaker 2: she never told me that they were waiting for me outside my house in fact she stayed [00:04:41] Speaker 1: the night with you didn't she yes she did and didn't exit your house with your hundred and thirty eight thousand dollars until the next day right correct and the money the hundred thirty eight thousand dollars was that stapled in the thousand [00:04:59] Speaker 2: dollar increments each packet was a thousand dollars and they were had a [00:05:03] Speaker 1: staple in it and stapling money's a little unusual would you agree with that for me [00:05:10] Speaker 2: it wasn't unusual that's what I did right but nobody else does it that's why I'm suggesting it's unusual I've never questioned people into how they keep the money whether they keep it a staple or a paperclip or an envelope I just know what I [00:05:23] Speaker 1: did would you agree doctor that it's a compelling piece of evidence that the killers were paid and staple money and came up with that information in this case [00:05:32] Speaker 2: it's not compelling that the people who extorted me and got my money got it from my house and it was stapled at my house they had to have gotten it from you right because it was stapled if they got it from Katie they got it for me so it had to be [00:05:48] Speaker 1: some kind of I paid but I did it under duress based on that piece of evidence [00:05:53] Speaker 2: right I had to be built into your defense I was extorted and I paid the money [00:05:57] Speaker 1: all right so Katie comes in and she she's in a panic and she tells you what's happened and I'm I need I need all the money in your safe right now do you suspect that maybe she's working with the police at that point maybe she's trying to set [00:06:19] Speaker 2: you up no she didn't say I need all the money they're safe that's not what she said did she take all the money in your safe I cleaned out all the money in my [00:06:27] Speaker 1: safe and handed it to her right why did you do that because I was being extorted for a third of a million dollars but why didn't you the bunk was only five thousand dollars and you immediately became suspicious and questioning and had all these conversations and deliberations about what to do about it for days when [00:06:48] Speaker 2: Katie comes to you you just open the safe and give her the money right yeah that's what I did and there's a big difference between the two [00:06:56] Speaker 1: Katie comes to you okay well the way that it was done to you is that the way it's done you have to be more specific well on the wire you say repeatedly that's not the way it's done you knew that the undercover agent was law enforcement or at least strongly suspected because that's not the way it's done because that's not the way it's done and my question to you is since you're an expert on extortion because you've been extorted before and that's how you knew that's not the way it's done is this the way it's done do extortionists send a girlfriend of their victim to collect their extortion money is that the way it's done doctor [00:07:39] Speaker 2: i'm telling you what happened to me and i was told that if i didn't pay in 48 hours i would be killed the person that came and extorted my mom that was not the same approach as what happened to me is that the only way that's the only way it's done they send the girlfriend it's the only time i've ever been extorted like that okay and did you hear any of the negotiate so [00:08:04] Speaker 1: they come in and they say strike they come in and they say we need a third of a million dollars you need to pay a third of a million dollars you need to pay a third of a million dollars why not a [00:08:16] Speaker 2: million dollars because when i had told to katie that the million dollar offer for dan markel i said i was going to pay a third of a million and i when she asked me do you have that much money and i said yeah i could pay it in cash so she took it as i had cash and she knew i had a ton of cash in my safe so she thought i had the cash i didn't have all that cash so that's where i'm assuming they got the [00:08:41] Speaker 1: third of a million dollars from but the offer that she bragged about was a million dollar offer isn't that right that she ran her mouth about i was never there when she spoke to her friend okay was it a [00:08:52] Speaker 2: million dollar offer the offer was that a million dollars was going to be paid and i was going to pay [00:08:59] Speaker 1: a third of a million and weren't you going to cover wendy's third as well no not at all i was going to cover my third didn't your lawyer say an opening statement that you were going to cover the whole [00:09:08] Speaker 2: thing for wendy's third no i i was sitting here i heard what he said charlie was going to pay a third [00:09:14] Speaker 1: of a million dollars all right and so the offer was a million dollar offer and that's what you told katie along with the fact that you were going to cover the third i was telling her that i was going to [00:09:24] Speaker 2: pay a third of a million dollars yeah and then one day my sister was able to she was going to pay me [00:09:29] Speaker 1: back and then you didn't have the amount of money that was being demanded at the time right no i only had what i had all right and at that point the blackmailer katherine magbanila negotiates some type of layaway plan for you to complete the extortion with the latin kings okay katie wasn't the blackmailer and katie wasn't the one who was extorting didn't you just tell this jury that katie was the blackmailer [00:10:01] Speaker 2: you realized it in 2019 i had thought that you when you were just talking you were talking about 2014. you were talking about that night so yeah that's not happening in 2014. okay [00:10:15] Speaker 1: we all know now because you have revealed the puzzle piece she's a blackmailer can we agree on that i [00:10:23] Speaker 2: believe sitting here in 2023 yes that she was in on the extortion for sure yes so is it okay if i refer to her as a blackmailer i think there's a difference between blackmail and extortion but yeah that's [00:10:34] Speaker 1: sitting here today we can we'll refer to her as an extortionist so this this woman an extortionist is going to do you a solid by negotiating with the latin kings for you to get on a payment plan [00:10:48] Speaker 2: for the extortion isn't that what happened what you're doing is you're taking what we know in 2003 and trying to say this is what i knew in 2014. did she put you on a payment plan yes she said because i didn't have the money she said asked me if i could pay three thousand dollars [00:11:09] Speaker 1: a month in 2014 and i said yes i can did you hear any of the conversation where she was making [00:11:19] Speaker 2: these negotiations on your behalf no when she said i'm going to go check with my friend and if that's okay with him she took her purse took her keys took her cell phone she walked out of my front door closed the door behind her and i sat in my living room and she came back about five minutes later you didn't want to talk to the guy yourself no i didn't even think about it but she went outside to [00:11:43] Speaker 1: call them all right and then the two of you took a xanax and went to sleep well i i took a xanax i [00:11:51] Speaker 2: don't know if she took one out of the bottle but i i definitely did and the next morning she left with [00:11:57] Speaker 1: your money right she left about 8 30 the next morning that's july 19 2014. correct let's talk about what you did that day you did not report this to the police because you were in fear correct absolutely and you didn't report this to wendy even though according to you her life was in danger too correct potentially but i planned on paying the extortion every month all right and but you did go to the gym that morning right did you were you able to go to the gym i absolutely didn't leave the house i worked it out [00:12:38] Speaker 2: at nova southeastern gym and you could check the gym records i was never there okay did you say [00:12:44] Speaker 1: you were going to the gym i said i was yeah but you didn't actually go no i didn't leave the house all right so would you agree doctor and we'll refresh your memory with them if we can that the text messages that were exchanged between yourself and catherine mcbanwell on the morning after this exchange of money were inconsistent with your extortion theory they were inconsistent with how i was feeling they don't appear to look like you just gave her 138 000 under duress do they [00:13:22] Speaker 2: she told me the last thing she said to me before she left the house is can we just pretend like this never even happened so when i sent her that message i was trying to show her like i'm trying to block [00:13:32] Speaker 1: i'm forget trying to forget all about it yeah you were just demonstrating to her that you would [00:13:38] Speaker 2: agree to pretend nothing happened right absolutely that's what she asked me to do and that's what i tried [00:13:43] Speaker 1: to do so the text messages aren't what they appear to be it's a beautiful day i'm going to the pool i'm going to the beach i'm going to the gym none of that is what it appears to be it's something else i [00:13:57] Speaker 2: absolutely did not go to the gym i was trying to show her that i was you know pretending like nothing [00:14:03] Speaker 1: ever happened and looking past it and there's nothing on the wire all those hours of new talking there's nothing on the wire about the extortion this layer one of extortion because she told you not to [00:14:18] Speaker 2: talk about it right she told me to never talk about anything to anyone or her she never wanted to hear [00:14:24] Speaker 1: about it again yesterday in your testimony between you and your attorney you mentioned the word extortion 123 times would you take my word for that i'm sure it came up a lot okay but nowhere even in the midst of this whole second extortion it's happening again it's an extension of the same thing do you mention anything about this layer one of the extortion do you yes actually i did okay um if you pull up the [00:14:56] Speaker 2: video from mark surrey when i was sitting with my dad and i said and the funny thing is that's what i whispered in his ear right but we can't hear that right because that's my point i never wanted anybody to hear what had happened i never wanted the police to come talk to me but if you put up that video you'll actually see me saying that it's my dad's ear and that's why i went in and said it and that's [00:15:15] Speaker 1: what we were talking about at the time sorry the only time you mention the extortion it's in a whisper that is not picked up by the microphones right intentionally yes yes and i and that was intentional at the time but it sucks for your defense right because that would be a huge piece of evidence for you to [00:15:33] Speaker 2: show the story wouldn't it no i think you'd come up with a reason why that i said it anyway and and [00:15:42] Speaker 1: there's nobody to corroborate this testimony there is okay and the matt surrey you talked about it again out in the parking lot right wasn't that your testimony [00:15:59] Speaker 2: yes we spoke in the parking lot okay so you did talk about the extortion [00:16:04] Speaker 1: that's just didn't do it in a way that it was captured on any of the recordings in this case [00:16:09] Speaker 2: well we spoke when we had privacy well you had privacy on the phone right [00:16:16] Speaker 1: what what at least you thought you had privacy on the phone oh every time when you were talking on the [00:16:22] Speaker 2: phone for no hundreds of hours on the fire there's there's always a chance that i was being listened [00:16:27] Speaker 1: to okay well there was a chance you were being listened to when you whispered in dad's ear right [00:16:32] Speaker 2: but you said it and you were talking about it i was i whispered real quietly into his ear so i i thought i had privacy at that point i thought i had privacy and katherine mack vanewa and you discussed [00:16:44] Speaker 1: this first layer of extortion in the car outside of dolce vita too right that's that's when i found out [00:16:52] Speaker 2: everything that was going on and she she opened up but if this jury could hear that conversation [00:16:58] Speaker 1: recorded we would all be hearing basically what you're telling us that there was an extortion effort [00:17:04] Speaker 2: that predated the undercover operation right because i was trying to see if sigfredo was behind the extortion of my mom because i knew he was behind i had he always had a feeling he was behind what happened to me and she was having this explosive fight with him and it was going on the same exact time that my mom started getting extorted so i thought that he was going after my mom [00:17:27] Speaker 1: don't you wish that that conversation in the car had been recorded um i don't know wouldn't it prove your theory yeah what you're talking about then you know exactly what happened back then but unfortunately it wasn't recorded and then everything that was recorded inside the restaurant you don't mention it right i'm speaking very carefully [00:17:58] Speaker 2: i mean and i still went even when i was in the car with katie she was doing most of the talking that was the first time she really opened up and i think i caught her off guard i was still even when i spoke to her in the car i was real careful i said was t behind was t behind what happened to me like i wouldn't even say the words still when i was in the car okay it was t behind what happened to me do you say [00:18:21] Speaker 1: anything anywhere on the wire about referencing what happened to me meaning what happened to me before [00:18:29] Speaker 2: um no because that was the only time i ever confronted her but i i did actually when i would when i would be on the wire with my mom and i would say this is it's not the same person like that was [00:18:39] Speaker 1: in reference to what happened to me and she knew how do you say it's not the same person [00:18:47] Speaker 2: okay you want to know what call it was tuesday the 26th um and i i said it's at the end of the call it was a two minute and something call april 26 april 26 2016. there's a two minute something call it was towards the very end and i go i know it's not done like this it's 48 hours just enough time it's not [00:19:10] Speaker 1: the same person so you can look it up okay i'm with you i'm with you it's not the same person you were referencing as the person that blackmailed me years ago and it has been blackmailing four years yeah [00:19:24] Speaker 2: that's what you meant it's not the same person that's exhorting me correct all right so i want to [00:19:31] Speaker 1: go back to wendy wendy is in the process of relocating from tallahassee to south florida basically the day [00:19:37] Speaker 2: that this is going on day after the money drop right they're they're packing up the car they're [00:19:44] Speaker 1: coming back right so she's going to be moving significantly closer to the killers that had [00:19:48] Speaker 2: threatened her life this this what i don't i don't know she wasn't planning a it wasn't a permanent move [00:19:53] Speaker 1: i think she took a suitcase with me but she's your family member yes she's much closer to the one they've already killed than you right she's safe again she's much closer she's got much deeper connections to the person they've already killed that's dan markell than you do right i mean there's a reason to fear for her safety because these killers have come they've just killed dan and now they're saying they're going to kill another one it could be wendy right she she has no idea what's going on exactly but you let her move from tallahassee to miami where you knew the killers [00:20:32] Speaker 2: were located that's my point do you agree with that the killers were able to find dan markell in [00:20:37] Speaker 1: tallahassee they have a car they were but would you rather live in tallahassee or in miami if the [00:20:43] Speaker 2: killers are in miami i think if these people want to find you they'll find you i mean i don't think i mean looking at louis rivera i don't think it i don't think the distance would stop them okay where did [00:20:55] Speaker 1: wendy and the boys live when she first moved to south florida um when she first moved to south [00:21:03] Speaker 2: florida she moved in with my parents into a small apartment they actually had to get another apartment because that one was too small with your parents she moved in with them yeah and i want to talk about [00:21:14] Speaker 1: the cameras you bought cameras for the adelson institute and in your home at whale harbor right yes the camera system yeah all right and what about wendy's i guess she didn't have a place so like wherever she was staying with your parents your cameras installed there as well at that same time [00:21:32] Speaker 2: frame that you installed these cameras no i never told her what happened but they lived in a very secure [00:21:37] Speaker 1: building isn't it true doctor that you've been planning to install those cameras for some time before the [00:21:43] Speaker 2: murder i actually already had cameras at my house um that i had installed in 2008 the technology from 2008 to 2014 it changed a lot when it came to cameras um you mentioned that i i'm sorry to interrupt you [00:22:00] Speaker 1: but i think you mentioned all that on direct i'm referring to this particular update that was done post homicide you were in communication with this camera guy and i think your lawyer mentioned this you had 84 text messages with him dating back to january 20th of 2014 in regards to the update that occurred post-murder do you agree with that i know i know there was always talk that we were going to [00:22:28] Speaker 2: get cameras in the office and we just never got around to it when this happened um that very that week within probably three days i called the camera guy up and i said house i get cameras in my house and my new cameras from my house and i want to get cameras in my office how soon can you come out and do it and then he came out i'd say four or five days after that bought the equipment and installed it that week [00:22:52] Speaker 1: did you hire a private investigator to help you with this whole problem you were having with the extortion yes no i didn't tell [00:23:04] Speaker 2: anybody did you get a bodyguard no i carried a gun on me and i was sleeping asleep with a gun next to me in bed and i carried a gun on my person and had a gun in my car at all times do you recall [00:23:15] Speaker 1: a statement you made on the dolce vita recording that said you were going to start carrying a gun [00:23:23] Speaker 2: yeah because i for a long time after this happened i was carrying a gun and it's it's uncomfortable and i don't always like carrying guns so i haven't carried a gun in a while and i was going to start [00:23:34] Speaker 1: carrying one again but you did say in 2016 i'm going to start carrying one yeah i carried probably [00:23:40] Speaker 2: for about four to six months after this happened and uh and i wear scrubs so the gun that i had can kind of stick out and it's uncomfortable i prefer not to carry a gun so you quit carrying it but during [00:23:54] Speaker 1: the time you were still paying the extortion money yes all right and the extortion money that you were paying three thousand dollars a month that wasn't going towards the principle of whatever was left on the 333 000 right didn't you testify to that correct all right so you never came up with the remaining bulk of the money that you owed never and nobody ever came after you for that no they said you could pay [00:24:22] Speaker 2: it all off and it'll be done or just pay you're paid three thousand a month so i thought about paying [00:24:28] Speaker 1: the full amount all right then a couple weeks later after the initial extortion you and catherine magdanua broke up according to your direct do i have that right that's not correct when did you break up [00:24:41] Speaker 2: uh within a week i met her we went out to dinner and went out to eat and i just said this has got to [00:24:47] Speaker 1: end all right so you broke up with her yes weren't you scared that if you broke up with her that she [00:24:53] Speaker 2: would stick the latin kings on you no because i had every intention of paying every month when when i broke up with her and i said listen i don't want to surround myself with this i'm scared she said that she was going to come every month and pick up the money and protect me and she understood i mean she [00:25:11] Speaker 1: our relationship was on the rocks but you testified that all the gifts and stuff that you gave her [00:25:18] Speaker 2: were to keep her happy right yeah when i when i realized that she's the one who's protecting me and she wasn't a part of this extortion i had no problem keeping her happy and i looked for things to do [00:25:31] Speaker 1: nice things to do for her because she was broke but not worried about pissing her off by breaking up with her [00:25:39] Speaker 2: well she our relationship was definitely on the rocks on after july 1st when sigfredo cut me off and threatened me and called my dad and then she knew i didn't even invite her to my dad's birthday party which was a family gathering with family friends on july 5th she knew we were pretty much we were going [00:26:00] Speaker 1: to be done after you broke up with kathleen nagbanua a week after the murder did you continue to talk to [00:26:08] Speaker 3: her we we still communicated for sure talk on the phone and texted yeah and meet up no the only time i'd see [00:26:17] Speaker 2: her was i saw her again the end of august she came and picked up the money and that's when she asked me if i could put her on the books because none of this money was going to her and she needed to get health insurance for her kids so i said yeah i'll do and help you out and did you continue to hook up with her after the breakup and by that i mean you know have sex with her there was one occasion there was one time that we hooked up okay when was that i want to say it was probably about five months after we broke [00:26:52] Speaker 1: it up okay well there's one other occasion before that in october of 2014 um do you recall that october [00:27:00] Speaker 2: 9th of 2014 that's that's probably the occasion i'm talking about it's july let me count the months [00:27:06] Speaker 1: july august september october so okay so four months okay and there's another one on october 15th you [00:27:13] Speaker 2: remember that one no i think i just i think we did hook up about one time okay well one time on october 9th and one time on october 15th i thought it was one time if it was two times it's been [00:27:25] Speaker 1: could it have been two times don't but no more okay and on august 25th 14 that would have been after the breakup right yeah you text her and then she replies i don't need help i'm good don't need favors nor will i trust anyone again erase my number please go on with your life like you did already and have been doing sorry we spoke today i don't want to stress your life more don't do anything for me do you remember receiving that text from katherine may banua yeah sounds familiar that's a pretty weird text to get from the extortionist you're meeting her to give her money why is she saying erase my number she's not [00:28:14] Speaker 2: the extortionist in 2000 see you're in 2014 i didn't think she was the extortionist right but it's been revealed that she was uh in 2019 so you're taking what was known in 2019 and you're trying to say i [00:28:30] Speaker 1: knew what i knew i'm not trying to say you knew i'm trying to say she knew she knew she was the extortionist why is she telling you to erase her number and leave her alone because i broke up with her exactly on 9 14 or 9 11 of 14 she sends you hashtag bestie for life do you remember that it sounds familiar so did you all have some kind of reconciliation after the breakup no i was probably doing a favor and making her happy with something on 10 6 of 2014 i love you it makes me feel good that you care about me i'm lucky to have you as part of my life do you remember sending that to her yeah on 10 9 of 14 i mentioned the sex talk i'm going to go into the details of it again 10 15 more sex talk 10 23 of 14 thank you again for everything you're doing for my mommy she sends you that what were you doing for her [00:29:33] Speaker 2: mother i don't know i think i was gonna i did a consult for her but i didn't do anything for her mom [00:29:40] Speaker 1: 2 24 of 15 you agree that she always knows how to make you smile and you say i love you to her [00:29:48] Speaker 2: remember that yeah i cared a lot about katie and i didn't think that she was a part of this so i was always trying to keep her happy and make her happy and i felt like she got caught up dragged into something [00:29:59] Speaker 1: that she shouldn't have been dragged into okay maybe but she dragged you into it as well i i didn't see it [00:30:05] Speaker 2: like that at all and our relationship actually got stronger you know initially when i got extorted i had limited contact with her and i was cold to her and then over time i realized that she's the one who's protecting me and she's not involved with these people because the extortion never went up [00:30:25] Speaker 1: and katie was always broke so she was involved with them because she was had a child with the guy right i didn't know for sure it was him but you suspected always that it was him i always suspected that sigfredo was behind this so wouldn't you want to distance yourself from this woman who i mean were you ever really that serious about her to begin with um i mean we we spent seven eight months together but you were never considering marrying her no i wasn't considering you were a playboy right you had a zillion girlfriends that's that is actually not even true okay did you have a lot of girlfriends [00:31:04] Speaker 2: i had two girlfriends in the two or three years after her i dated whitney kick for nine months [00:31:13] Speaker 1: okay but how many women were you talking to and engaging with sexually a lot more than whitney kitt right there there could have been one or two or more no okay point being you were not going to marry kathleen vanila i wasn't having marriage plans no okay and you have now broken up with her after this instagram yes she's the person that's taking the money from you physically she's the one i looked [00:31:46] Speaker 2: at it as she's the one who's protecting me if she wasn't i was going to get a visit is she the one that [00:31:50] Speaker 1: was physically taking the money yes is she the one that was connected to the person you suspected to have [00:31:57] Speaker 2: killed your brother-in-law i thought she was tied to that person yes and she's the one that got you into this right because she ran her mouth i looked at that i ran my mouth too and if i never said anything to her this would never have happened so i felt responsible for saying something to her in [00:32:17] Speaker 1: the first place but you didn't feel responsible enough to try to do anything about her sitting in jail an innocent woman for three years did you she never contacted me you didn't offer to testify in her trial you let her get convicted and get life in prison didn't you i i thought the truth was going [00:32:32] Speaker 2: to come out but not through you i was never contacted i thought it was going to come out through her [00:32:39] Speaker 1: was there any contact between your lawyers and her lawyers you'd have to ask them you said you didn't have any contact with her did you have any zero contact with her so your lawyers didn't tell you anything on behalf of her lawyers absolutely not and her lawyers didn't hear anything from your lawyers [00:32:56] Speaker 2: i don't know what lawyers talk about but i can tell you that i never talked to katie and i never told [00:33:01] Speaker 1: my lawyers you never relayed a message through your lawyers that the adelson family would not be talking in this case absolutely not and she had nothing to worry about as far as that end was concerned that's not true at all did you or your agent contact her brother to offer to assist with her attorney's fees in her case that's a complete lie on 10 27 of 15 you say you can't wait to get lunch with her she's the best and you're lucky to have her as a friend for life did you say that yes 10 27 15 you can't wait to get lunch with her 10 30 15 you tell her you miss her 12 9 of 15 again you tell her she's the best yeah i said all those things do you agree that this picture does not look like a relationship between an extortionist and her victim i i agree [00:33:59] Speaker 2: because katie wasn't the extortionist she was the extortionist in 2014 and 2015 i didn't believe that [00:34:07] Speaker 1: i know you didn't believe it but we're looking back now okay you know it's like if you're gonna quote [00:34:12] Speaker 2: me date me like at what i knew in 2014 and what i knew in 2015 is not what i know now in 2020 okay yes [00:34:21] Speaker 1: i hear you you didn't know then and that's why you were nice to her yeah i thought she was protecting me got it none of those factors that i pointed out weighed into that consideration that she ran her mouth that she brought the latin kings on you she was taking the money from you none of that counterbalanced it you were still gonna be friends with her and keep her happy you're wrong i didn't [00:34:44] Speaker 2: know about the latin kings in 2014 or 2015. all right the love text which is what i'm referring to all [00:34:53] Speaker 1: these texts where you're still nice to this person after you break up with her you're still doing favors for this person after you break up with her i mean that's like a major problem for your defense [00:35:03] Speaker 2: isn't it no our relationship got stronger i agree our relationship got stronger but it was much [00:35:08] Speaker 1: different isn't that why she has to be an innocent conduit between you and the bad guys because if those texts didn't exist she would be the extortionist and a bad actor in this whole thing right i'm not following your theory you have to explain away those texts don't you doctor no i have to sit here and tell you the truth and now you're finding it out most people don't send kissy faces to people that are extorting [00:35:40] Speaker 2: money out of him i mean she was taking your money again miss scaffold she was not extorting me at the [00:35:45] Speaker 1: time that's not how it's done is it i'm telling you how it was done so then over these next two years you would meet her monthly and hand over a bundle of checks and three thousand dollars in cash right [00:35:59] Speaker 2: no you're wrong tell me i would hand over two thousand dollars in cash and a bundle of checks [00:36:04] Speaker 1: two thousand dollars in cash and a bundle of checks and so over the course of two years i'm terrible at math but that's roughly how much money because i did i think i did three thousand dollars it's forty eight thousand dollars in cash in addition to the 138 you provided the night of [00:36:23] Speaker 2: do you agree with that if your math is correct i'm just telling you what i paid her each month and [00:36:31] Speaker 1: and the checks which is another seventeen thousand dollars right you're doing the math okay it was a lot of money was it a lot of money to you it was a lot of money to me yeah i work hard did they did the extortionists whoever they were ever try to increase the payments or come for more [00:36:57] Speaker 2: money the extortion never went up and katie was always broke and that's what led me to think that she was not a part of this because she could have easily jacked up the the payments well she's sharing [00:37:09] Speaker 1: three grand a month with a bunch of other people right at least one other person i didn't think she [00:37:15] Speaker 2: was sharing it why is she coming to me for three hundred dollars for her kid's birthday because she's [00:37:19] Speaker 1: broke because she wasn't getting any of the money half of three grand doesn't do much when you're living in miami with two kids to feed right i didn't think she was sharing anything well even if she was sharing it that's your point she must not have been taking the money because she was broke and my point is she could have been taking half the money and then broke that's not a lot of money that's not how i saw tell me about dan markell a little bit what you sort of said what i heard correctly if i'm wrong was he was you know a nice enough guy typical wendy boyfriend but not really your kind of guy yeah i think it's an accurate description all right do you agree that he was this brilliant [00:38:04] Speaker 2: legal mind i think he was a little nerdy nice guy um just kind of like the average guy that my sister [00:38:13] Speaker 1: dated not the kind of guy you you want to have a beer with them um we never had a beer together i mean [00:38:19] Speaker 2: not that i wouldn't have had a beer if he wanted to have one we just didn't have that much in common [00:38:23] Speaker 1: but he was always nice to me do you appreciate the fact that his death was a terrible loss to his sons it was horrible do you think they were better off without him absolutely not did you host a celebration dinner after his murder that's a complete lie on the wire would you agree that the markell boys were in the background pretty much of every call you had with your mom and we hear them a lot right but my sister was working so my parents would help my sister out yeah yeah and it was summer time so they were out of school i would assume i don't [00:38:54] Speaker 2: know if it was every call but they definitely helped my sister out for sure all right and those calls [00:38:58] Speaker 1: captured donna pushing them on the swings that call that tortured all of us a couple times remember [00:39:03] Speaker 2: that one yeah i think it was a call where she was pushing them on the swing taking them to tennis lessons that was that was the same day i mean that was the same call that got broken up and she called [00:39:13] Speaker 1: me back but yes doing their bedtime routine helping my sister out for sure reading stories brushing teeth getting haircuts going to piano story time and bedtime all of that kind of stuff all stuff that parents and grandparents do you're right all right she even said to you on one of the calls regarding the bedtime routine look quote we have a whole routine going do you remember that [00:39:35] Speaker 2: i think i have a whole routine with my son i mean i think it's normal with kids you have a routine to put them to bed right you gotta brush your teeth can't forget to brush your teeth all the [00:39:45] Speaker 1: yeah old dental hammer couldn't hurt right what's that all the kind all the things that that you know your mom wouldn't have been able to do as readily if the kids were living at all happy [00:39:57] Speaker 2: agree with that i mean when they come up to visit them they'd be doing the same thing sure when [00:40:01] Speaker 1: they came up to visit but now they're doing it every day right almost every day not every [00:40:05] Speaker 2: day but when my sister needed them she helped them out and these are all things these little routine [00:40:09] Speaker 1: things that dan markell will never be able to do with his sons do you agree with that absolutely [00:40:16] Speaker 2: does your mom have a favorite child she says she doesn't have favorites but i don't think she likes my older brother okay but is wendy the favorite um i'd like to think it's a tie it's been me and her [00:40:29] Speaker 1: does your mom worry more about wendy than you [00:40:36] Speaker 2: well before this case no i don't i mean i don't i think maybe in different parts of my life she's probably more concerned about me different parts of my sister's life she may be more concerned about [00:40:46] Speaker 1: her is it true that your mom has a tendency to worry herself sick if there's something going on with one [00:40:51] Speaker 2: of you kids no i mean she's she's a concerned mom but i think she's a normal mom was she pretty worried about when these marital problems no she wasn't i think no i think she'd get upset when my sister would tell her things that danny was doing and going to work bad mouthing her but i think any parent [00:41:14] Speaker 1: would get upset but also she would meticulously go through all the filings and send long emails detailing her thoughts about every filing in this divorce no i don't i don't think that's the case at all okay did she hate dan markel um i think she liked him in the beginning for sure and i think when [00:41:33] Speaker 2: he was being a jerk to my sister i think that i don't think anyone particularly liked him when he was [00:41:39] Speaker 1: being a jerk what about the time around the time that he was killed did your mother hate dan markel [00:41:44] Speaker 2: no i think it kind of like tapered off i think this it was only she only disliked him when he was being mean to my sister other than that nobody had a problem he was being mean to your sister during [00:41:54] Speaker 1: these divorce proceedings and subsequent litigation right i think it was on and off i think it was sporadic and when your mom's worried about when does she come to you for solutions or to talk things out [00:42:07] Speaker 2: no i don't think i don't think worried is the right word to describe it does she ever make wendy's [00:42:12] Speaker 1: problems your problems no like convincing you to pull get wendy to pull the plug on the house on halloween 2013 um didn't she convince you to sort of take up that cause no that was actually me i [00:42:26] Speaker 2: thought i shared my thoughts on home ownership for my sister that was all me didn't you say that if she [00:42:33] Speaker 1: had bought that house that would have been the second worst decision of wendy's life i thought it was going to be a stupid decision to buy that house and what would what was the first worst decision of [00:42:43] Speaker 2: wendy's life i thought when she i mean looking at hindsight 2020 i think when she she degreed when [00:42:49] Speaker 1: she married dan and did you convince her to take a particular job as well remember that call um yeah [00:42:58] Speaker 2: she uh she got an offer from a law firm and she was debating whether or not she should take it she didn't know if it was exactly what she wanted to do i was like hey you don't you don't know what you don't like doing until you've done it seems like a great opportunity like why not do it learn the job skill it's a skill you don't she's like well i don't have that skill i'm like well it's a good opportunity to learn it and you may like it and if you don't like it then try something else but i was trying to encourage her to to take what sounded like a great opportunity and mom shared your thoughts [00:43:29] Speaker 1: and i'm referring to donna adelson shared your thoughts about this opportunity being a good one [00:43:33] Speaker 2: for wendy right um i probably heard about the job from my mom but i definitely heard about it from my [00:43:39] Speaker 1: sister because i'm talking to my sister about it yeah i mean the job was not what she was had any experience in right it was a whole nother field of law and that was my point it was like well [00:43:50] Speaker 2: why not take it if they're offering it to you and you can learn something new it sounds like a great [00:43:54] Speaker 1: opportunity do you and donna know what's best for wendy better than she knows herself no but not at all were you a spy when it came to wendy did you get information from donna i mean from wendy and [00:44:08] Speaker 2: relayed it to donna at times because i was i was dating brie and brie worked for dave so i would i would hear stuff about dave from brie so i kind of had an inside uh i got inside information in what [00:44:22] Speaker 1: capacity did brie work for dave dave was his uh after she graduated from college she was uh working as a nanny for dave all right and how old was brie during the time you were dating her was she significantly younger than you um she was 24 and i was 39 is that the is brie the mother of your child she is the mother of my child yeah all right so back to wendy wendy and donna so wendy was she tight-lipped with [00:44:53] Speaker 2: donna about her private life um i don't think she shared everything but she would tell things to you [00:45:01] Speaker 1: that you wouldn't tell to donna i'm i can't say that for sure can you play clip one please publishing called eee [00:45:31] Speaker 4: i'm just wait there um anyway so i just i just put the date of the channel [00:45:45] Speaker 5: oh is this new [00:45:46] Speaker 4: so it's probably an old fart i don't know he's a month older than me i don't know but um so i actually mentioned on her birthday turns out one is making him a little party in playwood oh man yeah when he goes like very tight-lipped you're not kidding so what you do is you know she's obviously tight-lipped for a reason because she doesn't want you to know anything anything anything so my point is if she doesn't want you to know anything then don't ask anything she's happy yeah and then i just find everything out and just tell you i know it's great so i think that's like so what are you doing for your birthday it's like well wendy's making me like a little birthday dinner a little get together party i'm like that's awesome he's like yeah she's doing it she's like i don't know anything all i know is when he's putting it together for me and doing it [00:46:41] Speaker 5: quickly so i'm like oh that's kind of awesome well i'm really glad she was on the street from work to the hotel where everybody was meeting for the um just the miami fellows in michigan and um um because um early first week tomorrow morning all right so i guess in between she managed to do something else which makes me happy i'm really glad do you remember yesterday [00:47:33] Speaker 1: saints you were telling a story about katie coming in from having had some kind of altercation with garcia and sujo reported that the necklace had been pulled off enough do you remember that yes i do all right and when you were relaying that story to the jury you used a specific term describing what garcia had done to her do you remember what that term was yeah it was only yesterday [00:47:59] Speaker 2: but you'll have to refresh my memory how i described it you said he roughed her up [00:48:04] Speaker 1: that's accurate and that put my antenna out because that roughed up roughed them up is the exact same phrase that katherine magbanoa said in her proffer that you used on halloween 2013 when you first approached her about does she know anyone who can rough someone up no i think getting roughed up is an adjective but [00:48:29] Speaker 2: you're what you're doing is the same thing you did with your tv kiri is like you heard tv mentioned multiple times so you you put the whole case together with the tv okay and you're putting the whole case together with the word roughed up yeah i'm not putting the whole case together [00:48:43] Speaker 6: don't speak over each other please wait for him to answer then you can ask ask your next question [00:48:51] Speaker 1: go ahead but that's an unusual i mean you know it's a specific term i'm not making a whole case out of [00:48:59] Speaker 2: it but did you say roughed up in both places um katie was roughed up by sigfredo when he tore the [00:49:06] Speaker 1: necklace off of her neck yes and isn't that the same term you used when you first broke katherine about couldn't did she know someone who could rough up someone else never in my life have i ever asked [00:49:17] Speaker 3: her that question never in my life that conversation ever took place did you ever hear donna adelson refer [00:49:24] Speaker 1: to dan markell as stupid uh no were you laughing when wendy was on the stand and i read all the names that donna referred to dan markell as no i i laughed when you said the word in court okay what did she mean when she said dan markell was trying to take her sunshines away you know my mom [00:49:48] Speaker 2: never said that that was made up and he put it in a court filing along now it becomes something that my mom said because someone made it up and put it in a court filing my mom never said that did your mom refer to the children as her sunshines no the kids were three and four a three and four-year-old can't repeat a conversation and remember words six hours later and repeat it accurately i have a five-year-old son i've never seen a three and four-year-old do that so it was made up and now you're [00:50:16] Speaker 1: repeating it okay um have you been a good brother to wendy i really thought i'd be a good brother good brother it sounds like maybe you're not agreeing that this was a really nasty divorce or are you [00:50:30] Speaker 2: agreeing it was a nasty divorce i mean i don't think any divorces can be pleasant but i think they definitely had their fights i mean they were fighting over bicycles and all kinds of crap [00:50:41] Speaker 1: but but in addition to that they're in my college he's a sister of fraud right he made an accusation yeah threatened her with federal kidnapping charges that's a new one you just told me that one's in the emails that are in evidence did you review those i didn't review the federal kidnapping charges in this case um was seeking contempt proceedings you heard about that here in court yes i heard about that yeah even went after her lawyer personally right he he made serious threats against her lawyer and her bar card could have been in jeopardy if any of those or some of them i i heard yes the other day she was [00:51:19] Speaker 2: saying that i guess her lawyer he was threatening her lawyer's bar card her lawyer's bar card as well as as wendy's he was making lots of threats and writing lots of stuff i guess and he messed with your mom [00:51:32] Speaker 1: too didn't he in that grandma motion you know which one i'm talking about i don't think he was messing with my mom i mean nobody took that seriously and i don't think anyone even knew about it i'm sorry finish [00:51:44] Speaker 2: i said i don't think anyone even knew about it till years later isn't your mom notorious for always getting worked up about everything she gets upset i mean she's a concerned mom i mean [00:51:55] Speaker 1: but is she notorious for getting really worked up about everything to a certain extent aren't those your own words from call s that's in evidence in this case yeah those are my words but you can't [00:52:07] Speaker 2: honestly not to an extreme but she does worry especially when like latin king gang members are [00:52:13] Speaker 1: extorting her for money did your mom take the grandma motion seriously i don't think she even knew [00:52:18] Speaker 2: about it she didn't talk to you about it no i didn't find out about it two years later [00:52:27] Speaker 1: wasn't this divorce a big deal in your family [00:52:31] Speaker 2: um it didn't affect my life i can tell you that so i don't think that's true i think it was a big deal [00:52:38] Speaker 1: in my sister's life why did wendy testify that she was getting along well with dan markell just prior [00:52:45] Speaker 2: to his death can you can we agree that's not true i think there were there were ups and downs and how they got along i mean you got to ask her she was on the stand i mean i wasn't living her life [00:52:56] Speaker 1: is it part of your defense to minimize how nasty and contentious this divorce was my defense is to tell the truth did you have any input on the decision to change the boys names from markel to adelson absolutely not do you and donna have to protect wendy no does wendy appreciate everything you and donna do for her [00:53:34] Speaker 2: you gotta ask her i mean she's my sister i love her i try to give her my best advice i can but i care about her and i give her my advice whether she takes it or not is uh is up to her she's a grown woman let me [00:53:46] Speaker 1: ask it another way do you feel or isn't it true that you don't feel that wendy appreciates everything [00:53:53] Speaker 2: you and donna do for her my sister had no idea what i've been through in the last god is how many years and what i wake up worrying am i going to get killed am i going to get arrested and she knows none of it she's just going around her life and i had a somewhat of an innate anger towards her you know probably unjust because she didn't know what happened but yeah i i was upset and weren't you [00:54:20] Speaker 1: saying on the wire that you that she doesn't appreciate what you and donna have done for her [00:54:25] Speaker 2: i don't know if i said that she doesn't appreciate what i've done for her because i never did anything [00:54:29] Speaker 1: for her okay so that was my next question what what have you done for her nothing other than give her [00:54:35] Speaker 2: advice and care about her big brother that loves her would you say wendy's a little bit spoiled um in some in some regards i mean she gets a lot of help for sure is she a little less savvy about [00:54:52] Speaker 1: how the world works than you are i don't know you gotta ask her could you trust wendy with a secret [00:55:00] Speaker 2: that could ruin your life it's not it's not a secret something that would get me killed so i didn't want [00:55:05] Speaker 1: to tell her can we agree that she obviously knew something about this crime she found out when she [00:55:12] Speaker 2: came to court i never told her anything i'm talking about the murder of dan markel she knew something [00:55:18] Speaker 1: right i mean it's not a coincidence she went to the crime scene is it [00:55:23] Speaker 2: the you're talking about the route that she took that day i'm talking about her pulling up to the crime scene tape she never she never went to the crime scene she was going to buy a bottle of liquor that coincidentally the person sent her a stock the bar party for buy a bottle of bullet bourbon that she was going to pick up she wasn't driving to a crime scene and i think she made that clear too [00:55:43] Speaker 1: nobody knew a murder was taking place she pulled up to the crime scene tape dr adelson she didn't pull [00:55:50] Speaker 2: up to the crime scene tape she was driving down the street and then had to make a u-turn it was blocked off but she wasn't going to help herself nobody knew a murder was going to take place she exposed you [00:56:01] Speaker 1: all to some degree by those actions didn't she no not at all then she threw you under the bus in her [00:56:08] Speaker 2: interview didn't she then nobody knew a murder was going to take place she knew her husband had just [00:56:14] Speaker 1: been shot and they were asking her who would want him dead and she said your name are you mad about that no she said a lot of people's names well she said yours in the first 25 pages of a five-hour interview isn't that true i wasn't there for the interview but you've reviewed it in preparation [00:56:31] Speaker 2: for your trial haven't you i actually don't know if i've seen her interview [00:56:39] Speaker 1: there was a lot of questions of you about you know didn't you do this murder with wendy doesn't the state think you did this murder with wendy have you are you familiar with your charges in this case um yes i'm very familiar with my charges and who are you alleged to have done this murder with [00:56:57] Speaker 2: uh i'm alleged to have done this murder with my sister my mom and my dad [00:57:03] Speaker 1: would it refresh your recollection to review a copy of the indictment in this case [00:57:08] Speaker 2: i'm a slow reader but i can read it if you want may i approach your own right [00:57:16] Speaker 1: and this is the official charging document in your case dr adelson what does it say in reference to who you are alleged to have committed the murder with [00:57:31] Speaker 3: this is what day is this [00:57:37] Speaker 1: they think i did a murder with katie catherine yes anybody else [00:57:44] Speaker 3: give me a minute i'll read now they got louise rivera in here they got sir claire versier [00:57:59] Speaker 1: as being alleged to have committed the murder with him [00:58:04] Speaker 3: i read it too quick [00:58:14] Speaker 1: it should just be at the very top of each charge on our belt july 18th 2014 did unlawfully okay yeah katie are you mad that wendy hasn't been charged or do you have no i'm mad that i got charged for a crime that i didn't commit do you have any innate anger with wendy over that fact no not at all are you pissed that she told all that stuff to jeff lacoste i don't think she said that to jeff but i wasn't there how did lacoste know about the celebration that we went out to dinner she got sick so she may have told someone that she threw up and then what he just added the part about you referring to it as [00:59:17] Speaker 2: a celebration i never referred to it as a celebration dinner i picked my sister up i said where do you want to go to eat she said she wanted pizza or sushi i said i know a great sushi place we went there we didn't have reservations we ended up sitting at the bar for an hour waiting for our table she had two drinks and got sick she vomited on the dinner table or at the dinner table yeah she got her to the bathroom but well she doesn't drink alcohol so those two drinks and i think on an empty stomach i think she got really sick but there was there was no celebration dinner it was the first time that she actually really left the house since she got that got back from tallahassee she was devastated [00:59:55] Speaker 1: did you say something to her about the murder of dan markell right before she vomited absolutely not do you remember what you said right before she vomited uh she's probably i think she said i don't [01:00:07] Speaker 2: feel well i say oh no and then she threw up before that yeah i think i said oh no i want you to walk [01:00:15] Speaker 1: before she announced that she was going to be ill right do you remember what the conversation was um [01:00:23] Speaker 2: just how's the food how's your day i mean we're probably about halfway through dinner [01:00:29] Speaker 1: you look at the timetable we weren't there long why did you brag to jeffrey lacoste about your connection to the cuban criminal element never said that to jeff lacoste so he's he's making that up [01:00:41] Speaker 2: if he said it i never i never said it well you were in here when he said it weren't you i heard him say it again but i never said that to him [01:01:03] Speaker 1: on one of these calls and it's in the context of talking about dave and wendy's relationship with dave you tell your mom that you've already gone above and beyond for wendy was that a reference to having [01:01:16] Speaker 2: her ex murdered no that's me getting tired of this dave stuff i mean dave's a great guy i mean everyone who meets him likes him he's not only super successful but he's very low-key like t-shirts and jeans kind of guy and he loved my sister's kids i mean if you listen to the wire the point i was making is not how successful it is the point i was making is that my my nephew farted on him and he thought it was funny and didn't bother him and he also has three young kids the same ages as my sister's two young kids they actually met in line when my sister was registering the kids for school and it was very they've been friends for years so i thought it was a great opportunity for my sister to have a great guy in her life um and i was getting sick and tired of dave calls and the wires started in april my sister's birthday is in april dave's birthday is in april so you got a ton of dave chatter on this case but believe me i i'd go crazy if i was talking about dave like this all year [01:02:12] Speaker 1: long so that's a no you did not reference having her ex murdered absolutely not when you said you've [01:02:19] Speaker 2: already gone above and beyond no that was me getting sick of dealing with the dave stuff as great of a [01:02:24] Speaker 1: guy as he is i was still getting sick of it when the one million dollar offer was conceived do you recall whose idea that was um my parents why was the relocation worth a million bucks [01:02:43] Speaker 2: well it was it was actually gonna i was gonna pay a third so i only looked at it as that way um why was it worth it that's a question because it was going to help my sister out and it was going to be a it was going to give her a good opportunity for a good job down here and she was going to be [01:03:00] Speaker 1: around family and family is important so that's why isn't it true that financially you came out ahead on this deal as opposed to if you had coughed up the third of the million dollar offer how in the world did i come up ahead this is the greatest financially you paid 138 000 and you paid 2 000 a month plus the one thousand dollar payroll amount you're still about over a hundred thousand dollars ahead financially than if you had coughed up the 333k no i would have been better off paying and first [01:03:34] Speaker 2: of all i never paid for a murder this is a crazy question but paying three thousand dollars a month for life is not a is not anything anybody wants to do i didn't say anything about paying for a murder i said you paid 138 000 which you did i got extorted for 330 000. and then you paid but you didn't pay the 330 000. right because i didn't have it i had that cleaned out my safe and [01:03:58] Speaker 1: that was what was in my safe that night all right can we agree that wendy was stressed out about the [01:04:06] Speaker 2: issues surrounding her divorce i think the divorce caused stress in her life yes and you were hearing [01:04:12] Speaker 1: about it from your mother weren't you yeah i would hear wendy's totally stressed out yesterday was a [01:04:19] Speaker 2: rough one that sort of thing yes i said it before is that my sister would tell my mom a story i'd be sitting in the car driving my mom would be talking to me and telling me the latest story of the day [01:04:31] Speaker 1: and that's how the information that's how i found out a lot and then on 2 19 of 14 donna texts you again to tread lightly with wendy and refers to dan markell as an asshole and a right sorry [01:04:45] Speaker 2: he made me laugh is that what happened that text did my mom use a foul word to describe him yes sir and fucker to be specific um she she used the curse word correct is that pretty strong language for your mom or is that how she speaks um i mean it it is pretty strong language but i think in uh i mean i've been called a lot worse but um i i mean my mom used the curse word she used the curse word you just use [01:05:23] Speaker 1: for instance too so was wendy less stressed oh i yeah was wendy less stressed out once all this litigation was over [01:05:32] Speaker 2: um no she she was a million times more stressed out was she better off financially um there may have been some but not not much i don't think so [01:05:47] Speaker 1: was she able to stop paying her 800 an hour divorce lawyers um yes did she get 2.7 million dollars in benefits for her children plus 4 800 a month for the boys benefit no as far as i know that that money [01:06:07] Speaker 2: was in trust for and it's controlled by dan markell's sister so none of that money you keep saying it like the money went to her the money's in trust for the kids and it's and that money never went to her some [01:06:18] Speaker 1: of it went to her and some of it was in trust for the kids right i i don't know the breakdown but i [01:06:24] Speaker 2: know the the 90 something percent of what you're talking about is in trust and it's in trust for the [01:06:28] Speaker 1: children it's not for her benefit right it's for the benefit of the boys but it has to come through her because they're children right it has to gets disbursements right it has to go through the [01:06:40] Speaker 2: executor of the trust because my sister's not the executor of the trust no sir i'm not saying she [01:06:46] Speaker 1: is when the executor of the trust disperses money for the benefit of the boys it gets dispersed to [01:06:53] Speaker 2: wendy right see i you know more than i know [01:07:03] Speaker 1: did you have trouble sleeping after the murder after i was extorted for sure the cody talks to you on 12 19 of 15 sorry we have problems sleeping and we do have a lot of weight [01:07:17] Speaker 2: on our shoulders did she text me that did she text you that i mean she may have but it sounds about [01:07:26] Speaker 1: right do you want to look at the text i can look at sure you can look around the context if you want i'm looking at page two of this exhibit and it's got a little [01:08:03] Speaker 2: box around it thanks on [01:08:28] Speaker 1: if that refreshes your recollection the question is did she send it yeah i want to go over a little bit the some of the payments or gifts that you gave to catherine magbanwa we've heard a lot about her being put on the payroll at the adelson institute and and she made this demand to you when you met her to give her the first extortion payment on the payment plan is that correct [01:09:05] Speaker 2: she didn't make a demand when when i gave her the three thousand dollars for her friend she asked me if i could do her a favor and put her on payroll for a thousand a month so she could get insurance for her kids she was going to cash the check and the money was still going to her friend so that money wasn't [01:09:22] Speaker 1: going to her she was getting insurance and did you believe her that that she would give the money [01:09:28] Speaker 2: from the paychecks to the friend i believe what she was saying to me yeah isn't it true that catherine [01:09:36] Speaker 1: magbanwa actually asked you to place her on the payroll back in june prior to this extortion effort [01:09:45] Speaker 2: i don't know if i put on apparel she asked me if i could put her something when i was dating or put her something on the office so she could get insurance but i i never i never did that was in June yeah i remember she'd asked me about it before but i never i never did anything [01:10:11] Speaker 1: in june june june 24th of 2014 she says baby i'm going to need help on the employment info i have to send to dcf for my kids insurance also if i have to end up moving later on i need to show i'm working for you or else i won't be able to get an apartment to which you respond no problem remember that yeah but [01:10:36] Speaker 2: i wasn't thinking she was asking about payroll i think she was asking just to say that she worked there it's on a letter saying that she was employed but that doesn't say anything about writing checks [01:10:46] Speaker 1: to her and that request was made in between the two trips that the killers made that request well she [01:10:52] Speaker 2: asked me if i could do that for a while i was dating her and i never even did it and did she ask if you [01:10:58] Speaker 1: could do that in between the two trips that the killers made i didn't know when they went up but i [01:11:04] Speaker 2: i found out later that they went up in uh in june all right so that email would have been sent i'm [01:11:11] Speaker 1: sorry it's a text that text would have been sent prior to what you're calling is the first layer of the extortion that text was sent to me while i was dating but i never prior to the first layer of extortion the text was sent in june prior to the first layer of extortion before i was extorted yeah before i broke up with her and you say several times on the wire that she was cleaning at the office was she really cleaning no she never worked for us she was doing some type of cleanup for you wasn't she no what's the purpose of of keeping katie happy was she gonna stick the the latin kings on you if you [01:12:04] Speaker 2: made her unhappy she was she was protecting that i didn't know what would happen as soon as keep my mind like when that extortion never went up and i just assumed i thought that she wasn't part of it and she was protecting me usually extortion goes up it always always gets ratcheted up from what i've heard [01:12:21] Speaker 1: what's the fear of not keeping her happy that's what i'm trying to understand well i could get killed [01:12:30] Speaker 2: or the people who are extorting me could come robbing i didn't get killed i didn't get robbed the extortion never went up i thought she was really protecting me [01:12:41] Speaker 1: if that's the case why not just i mean you're complying with everything they've asked you to do [01:12:47] Speaker 2: right i'm doing everything that was asked to do and that's so why reach out and say hey can i get you [01:12:52] Speaker 1: a trip to key west to go with that extortion money i never said can i get you a trip to key west you didn't say you were trying to get them the owner's cottage maybe it's not in key west trying to get them the owner's cottage because it's the nicest 380 a night the postcard and you recall all those [01:13:15] Speaker 2: conversations oh yeah for sure and that was she'd actually asked me weeks before the bomb um because i had this connection at a place called the moorings that i could get like a really great place at a really affordable price for how nice the place is um and i said i was going to make some calls and help her out and get it and then i ended up giving her three hundred dollars for the uh when she picked up that bag at my house i put three hundred dollars in it and i got her a hotel room is that yes you remember [01:13:43] Speaker 1: that conversation yeah i do and she didn't want the trip in the text message where she's saying like no thanks and you're kind of forcing it down her credit do you agree with that yeah because actually [01:13:55] Speaker 2: it's funny at that time in the wire i was trying to see if katie and him were together or they weren't together so that's why i kept asking how you know how are things are you guys okay you know because if they were fighting it was making me think more and more that the reason she was avoiding me was because she found out that he was the one who was doing the second extortion again so i was trying to figure out if it was him and if she was lying to me she in this case she says i don't want to do [01:14:23] Speaker 1: anything and you say you know what at that you're going there you're going to have a good time for sure i was trying to do nice things for her and then you did you pay for a trip or offer i guess offer to pay for a trip to santo domingo for kathleen medbanon and secreted garcia to visit his [01:14:40] Speaker 2: parents i i didn't know who she was going with but i i paid for it you're talking about airline tickets yes she yeah she called me up she had an emergency something happened she booked tickets for the wrong date i didn't i had no idea who in the family she was going with um and she had no money and i i remember i i was in chicago i was at a friend's wedding and i took out my credit card and i gave her the credit card number and let her book tickets i thought she was going with her kids so is that a yes you paid [01:15:07] Speaker 1: oh yeah no i remember that well so go quicker if we can just i'm sorry answer the question what's the objection argumentative overruled did you offer to buy katherine magbanoa and her mom a cruise [01:15:23] Speaker 2: yes katie katie had mentioned to me that she always wanted to be able to take her mom on a cruise so i i did i offered but she never took me up on it did you call in prescriptions for katherine [01:15:32] Speaker 1: magbanoa she was a patient of record of my office did you pay for a meal service for katherine magbanoa yeah i did did you pay for car repairs for her yeah she all this stuff was making me think she was broke so yes you're right did you offer that she could use your range rover anytime i said she could borrow the car sure did she talk about getting a boat and you offered to help her get a boat i've never [01:15:57] Speaker 3: offered to help her get a boat i offered to help her look for a boat did you pay for the breast [01:16:02] Speaker 1: augmentation no no part of the breast augmentation not at all so when she's saying at the same time she's the day of the breast augmentation can i just put it on the credit card is she referring can i just put it on your credit card is she referring to something else some other expense [01:16:17] Speaker 2: i have no idea what she's referring to but i did not pay for her boo job [01:16:21] Speaker 1: what about this birthday gift for sigfredo garcia what was the bonsai tree and the bag what was that all [01:16:29] Speaker 2: about oh she had asked me and it's on a wire it's actually it's on 420 where she says can you get me some bud from bud my next door neighbor's bud and she asked me if i could get some marijuana from my next door neighbor for her so that's what um when i said i have a bonsai tree for you as she asked me and i got her a little bit of marijuana from my next door neighbor and you said i don't know what a [01:16:55] Speaker 1: married man with kids would want for his birthday but you did your best i did my best i was being [01:17:02] Speaker 2: completely surprised by the way i was being completely sarcastic i never would get sigfredo [01:17:06] Speaker 1: garcia a present in my life and you thought you hid it out of the park with the weed and the gift card [01:17:11] Speaker 2: did you say that well give me a little more context the context is you don't know what a [01:17:17] Speaker 1: married man with kids would want for his birthday but you did your best and you think you hit it out [01:17:21] Speaker 2: of the park no i was being completely sarcastic because she had asked me for that marijuana two weeks earlier and i gave it to her and then i was joking around when i gave it to her i didn't want to uh i didn't want him to think that i was hooking up with her so i started to joke around about it and then i was like you know maybe you can just tell him it was for me because i didn't want him to think that i'm hooking up with katie and that's why i gave it to her [01:17:47] Speaker 1: can we agree in general that it's important to maintain positive feelings between co-conspirators if you're a co-conspirator with someone in a crime you want to keep positive relationship with that person will you agree with that i'm not a co-conspirator with her okay i'm saying in general can you agree in general that co-conspirators in a crime [01:18:08] Speaker 2: want to stay friendly with each other i'm not a co-conspirator with her all right i can't agree [01:18:14] Speaker 1: to that if a co-conspirator develops a motive to harm another one that could be bad right co-conspirator say it again say it you know husband and wife do a murder together and then 10 years later you know they've gotten away with it but 10 years later they fall out that could be a problem somebody might start talking right i was never part of a murder were these gifts these things that you provided to katherine madbanila and her mother and sigfredo garcia payment for the murder okay i never got [01:18:50] Speaker 2: sigfredo a gift in my life the guy absolutely hates me he wants to kill me he stalked me he extorted me like that was being completely sarcastic and sometimes i make some bad jokes but that's even when i wrote he wanted to take me deep sea fishing i knew he wanted to kill me like you have that text too i didn't think we were going deep sea fishing on april 6 of 2015 [01:19:13] Speaker 1: did you receive a text from katherine katherine magbanila that reads next time don't be such a dick to someone who has done something for you [01:19:22] Speaker 2: yeah she's she's protecting me and she's mad she's mad at me over something are these gifts what [01:19:27] Speaker 1: it took to secure her silence for so long no absolutely absolutely not i was never trying to get her silence i was hoping she'd tell the truth was your dad's birthday in between the two [01:19:39] Speaker 2: trips that the killers took um yeah my dad's birthday is july 5th and what birthday was that for [01:19:46] Speaker 1: him it was his 70th birthday party all right so there's been a lot of talk about the texting between you and your mom about the birthday and she texts you on march 4th of 2014 and says she can't talk now but she'll call when she goes to the bathroom in gainesville and has privacy she tells you to erase that text after you read it why did she have you erase that text okay if you look at the records i never erased the text but why did she ask you if you know you may not know maybe she's afraid my dad's looking at [01:20:16] Speaker 2: the phone and find out about the president it made no sense to me that's why i was like i didn't erase [01:20:21] Speaker 1: anything how is you erasing the text going to prevent her your dad from seeing it on your mom's phone [01:20:29] Speaker 2: well if my dad looked at my mom's phone then he'd see the text and maybe know what she's playing for [01:20:33] Speaker 1: his birthday you weren't with dad she was with dad just to clarify yeah she was with my dad and the text that she asked you to erase that particular text didn't say anything about a birthday or paella [01:20:46] Speaker 2: can we agree on that no not but i knew what it was about all right 20 minutes later she texts again [01:20:54] Speaker 1: and asked something about dad's birthday do you remember that yeah i know we were trying to plan a surprise cruise that was the original idea okay and the paella is mentioned elsewhere not in this particular thread that we're talking about now yeah was paella the big birthday gift yeah i paid for the catering for the whole party then three months later on june 8th just after midnight you text her quote still working on dad's birthday present was that in reference to the paella guy uh possibly [01:21:27] Speaker 2: or possibly what i was also getting was a present i mean it's been 10 years so i don't know exactly [01:21:31] Speaker 1: what i got him 10 years ago on his birthday and then what i was thinking about i'm sorry you weren't done or what i was thinking about giving them and then at 1 a.m mom texts you back i know you'll and i think she was in israel so that might account for the time but she texts you quote i know you'll come through for me is that what she said that's what the text said yeah can we agree the timing of these texts is consistent with being sent the day after the killers got home from their failed june murder trip no it's [01:22:00] Speaker 2: consistent with a few weeks before my dad's birthday and trying to figure out what we're going to get him [01:22:08] Speaker 1: why didn't you go to dan's funeral in canada i think there was some in tallahassee and canada as well did you go to either there was [01:22:21] Speaker 2: a memorial service here um i didn't go to that no i didn't attend i i knew what had happened to him and there's no way i could have shown up i would have been too upset mr dubin your lawyer that was here [01:22:35] Speaker 1: seems like a long time ago jury selection said you know people have different waves of grieving and that sort of thing were you were you grieving for the death of dan marcal i felt horrible about what [01:22:46] Speaker 2: happened and i knew what happened when did you i wasn't i wasn't i wasn't close to him um but either way i mean i felt horrible about what happened when did you find out exactly how he was killed meaning like shot twice in the head i found out um it would have been the next morning is how i found [01:23:05] Speaker 1: out he got shot in the head do you agree that this was a first degree murder [01:23:11] Speaker 2: do i agree and premeditated the people who killed him planned on killing him yeah [01:23:15] Speaker 1: do you think everyone involved should be convicted i think everyone involved should be convicted even the [01:23:20] Speaker 2: person that hired the hit i think anybody who played a role in it but i wasn't a part of it do you [01:23:26] Speaker 1: regret that dan markel suffered for 14 hours before he died i feel horrible he was supposed to die [01:23:32] Speaker 2: quickly instantly right are you asking me i am no he wasn't supposed to die at all this was horrible [01:23:39] Speaker 1: what happened did it surprise you that the cops were able to identify the prius did it surprise me yes [01:23:46] Speaker 2: i'm not a cop i don't i don't know what health cops investigate did it surprise you to learn that it's [01:23:51] Speaker 1: it's not a requirement of law to put the person at the scene of the crime to be guilty of the crime [01:23:58] Speaker 2: listen i'm not a police detective was the police work in this case thorough i'm true i'm sure the police did the best they could did you think that you had done everything [01:24:09] Speaker 1: properly such that you could never be detected or caught for this i wasn't part of this murder at all did you have it wrong katherine magbano has said that you think you're untouchable is that true doctor that's not true at all did your parents drop off money to you on the night of the murder i [01:24:27] Speaker 2: never saw my parents there you could look at our cell phones and you'll you'll find that out but we [01:24:30] Speaker 1: never saw each other i did look at the cell phones and what is on there is your mom texts you quote outside your house no i mean look at the tower of information i think you testified that that [01:24:41] Speaker 2: meant she was just passing by on the roadway she was approaching the area yeah to see if i was home [01:24:46] Speaker 1: all right and do you know what your response was to her text yeah like 20 or 30 minutes later i said 10 minutes i'm 10 minutes out is what you said i think i said 10 minutes but yeah i'm not home doesn't that indicate you're going to meet them at your house in 10 minutes [01:25:01] Speaker 2: no i told told her to let me know when you're going to be in the area was the money that katherine magbano got damp i never gave her any money that was damp the money i gave her came out of my safe was it damp no i took it out of my safe i put it on the dresser she put it in her purse [01:25:23] Speaker 1: why did garcia and rivera or whoever did it i guess i should say why did whoever did it need to kill someone to extort you you gotta you gotta ask them what why couldn't they just come put a gun to your head and say give me all the money in your safe thank god they didn't thank god they didn't thank god they didn't i would have gotten killed if garcia hated you why would he drive to tallahassee twice [01:25:57] Speaker 2: to kill someone you hated he was it sounds like he was part of the extortion or katie put him up to it [01:26:05] Speaker 1: doesn't blackmail or extortion usually involve the extortionist having some kind of dirt on the victim [01:26:11] Speaker 2: i know how this was done to me i know what i'm just telling you what happened to me i don't [01:26:15] Speaker 1: i'm not an expert in it if they had come in and threatened to kill you would you have given them [01:26:19] Speaker 2: the money in your safe if someone came and put a gun to my head and yeah i would have opened up [01:26:24] Speaker 1: my safe and i would give them the money i still don't get how killing dan markel advances the ball for them to extort money out of you do you yeah i have a theory they could extort me for life and i [01:26:37] Speaker 2: don't think they knew exactly how much i had in the safe and she knew i had a lot of money in the safe but this way i could get extorted for life and that's what happened and i was paying [01:26:46] Speaker 1: stuck paying three thousand dollars a month but you could have gotten extorted for life just by the threat of death by latin king couldn't you doctor i mean this this was more [01:26:57] Speaker 2: this was as real the threat as you get these guys aren't messing around [01:27:03] Speaker 1: all right you didn't report this after garcia was arrested did you did not report this after garcia's arrest no not at all okay you did keep paying katherine magbanua after garcia's arrest no i never saw her again did not report this after magbanua's arrest correct correct correct did not testify in either of their trials correct it was never contacted to but yes you were okay with the possibility of them getting [01:27:34] Speaker 2: away with killing dan markel i thought the truth was going to come out in 2019 oh if the witness who knows something doesn't come forward katie knows what knows what happens and knows i was extorted and her trial was in 19 and i was expecting the truth to come out then and instead i found out that she was having this affair with him on me and she lied and all this money was going to her so if her defense had [01:27:59] Speaker 1: been i was an innocent conduit to an extortion you would have backed her up on that if she would have [01:28:06] Speaker 2: come in and told the truth and you yeah for sure you would have heard the same story [01:28:14] Speaker 1: where is your family located wrong to be specific but is your mom and dad are they still in south [01:28:20] Speaker 2: florida they yeah they still live in south florida okay what about wendy and the boys my parents live about 30 35 minutes from my sister and i used to live about 45 minutes from them and are they okay [01:28:34] Speaker 1: as far as you know physically today as i sit here yes and are you concerned that because you've told now on the latin kings that they're going to come kill your whole family i mean i just told you that i [01:28:49] Speaker 2: knew that was told then that louise rivera the head of the latin kings killed dan markel so i mean i do have some concern when i get out right but even after me sorry go ahead that's okay i said i do have some concern flatting kings now that i spoke and told what i know but what about i mean rivera was [01:29:08] Speaker 1: already in custody at one point as well as garcia and i've been well my understanding is your continued fear was due to other latin kings potentially is that accurate these are highly connected people [01:29:22] Speaker 2: luise rivera the head of the latin kings in custody means absolutely nothing if you think he can't send [01:29:29] Speaker 1: somebody from the outside you're wrong all right so my question to you is did that happen because [01:29:35] Speaker 2: you told last you told yesterday was i killed yesterday when i was in jail no and nobody in your family has been killed so far you're talking about in the last 24 hours right not that i know okay but but you're worried about that i think now that i've spoken i do have a concern yes okay but not too [01:29:54] Speaker 1: concerned to remain silent when it's your own butt on the line right i'm here to tell the truth and i [01:30:00] Speaker 2: yes do i have a concern now that i told you what happened absolutely mom tells you on that first [01:30:06] Speaker 1: wire call that the bump involves the two of us referring to yourself and your mom right yes that's what she said and would you agree prior to your explanation that that looks pretty incriminating [01:30:21] Speaker 2: i think if you don't know what happened you can assume the worst isn't it true that you had to add [01:30:27] Speaker 1: the bit about confiding your extortion in your mom in order to put that toothpaste back in the tube no that's what happened when i got the checks otherwise why would you bring your mom into this [01:30:39] Speaker 2: i didn't want to when i first told her on the phone and asked her to write the checks i told her i said just it's a long story i'd brush it off and she didn't press anything but i think she was out somewhere it wasn't until when i picked up the checks that she started pressuring me and saying this makes no sense why are you doing this you're not dating katie and that's when she [01:30:57] Speaker 1: found out but your mom is the most high strong out of the whole group right and she's old and she worries [01:31:07] Speaker 2: right i don't think she's super high strong but she does worry about her kids you don't [01:31:12] Speaker 1: no you've never met her well you said she was quote notorious for making a big deal out of everything [01:31:19] Speaker 2: i mean she she overreacts but she's a mom i think a lot of moms overreact okay [01:31:27] Speaker 1: you could have told her you know katie's down on her luck and i'm just going to be putting her on the payroll and you were making enough money you could tell her to just write checks couldn't you why'd you have to tell her i was an extortion from law and king gang members well okay at that time [01:31:42] Speaker 2: i didn't know anything about the lion kings but when i when i told her what happened i was thinking that you know what it actually would be good if someone knows what happened in case i get killed at least know what direction to start looking in so until that point nobody even knew so i just when she started questioning me and questioned me and questioned me i just said you know what i'm gonna tell you but don't say a thing to dad don't say a thing to wendy you gotta promise me i didn't want her to ever talk about this again and that's that was the day that she found out it was when i got [01:32:11] Speaker 1: the checks what she doesn't say on the wire is it's happening again i was approached by another [01:32:18] Speaker 2: extortionist today does she say that no she's talking very carefully and you say carefully but isn't carefully the same thing as code no they're two two totally separate things you know the difference [01:32:31] Speaker 1: you weren't really giving her money for a tv were you giving her money for a tv this tv is probably going to be about five i need you to bring cash tonight i wish she picked another object on planet [01:32:42] Speaker 2: earth other than tv but tv is code for absolutely nothing there is no code in this case involving tv and you keep circling and circling and circling tv you're wrong is it a coincidence that the repair [01:32:57] Speaker 1: of the tv that you bought wendy as a divorce gift because it was cheaper than hiring a hitman is your sister's alibi for the murder and then your mom brings up tv first call on the wire it's not an alibi [01:33:09] Speaker 2: for a murder she had a broken tv you got to ask lincoln who threw the remote at the tv was it a coincidence [01:33:13] Speaker 1: is the tv thing a coincidence that's what i hear you oh that that the repair man was there that day yes [01:33:18] Speaker 2: sir yeah that's that is a coincidence for sure there's a couple of coincidences in this case i'm sorry i cut you off i said there's a couple of coincidences in this case i mean she had people send her an email to go buy a bottle of bullet bourbon for their stock the bar party and she was driving to a liquor store to buy a bottle of bullet bourbon on that day at that time and her friend sent the email and you have the email and evidence like is that a coincidence yeah [01:33:44] Speaker 1: coincidence has happened and that you might not be the right katie talk that doesn't seem to really fit with your theory of the case does it what was your explanation for that why you kept saying you might not be the right katie i mean she's definitely the right table absolutely she knew it was i was [01:34:00] Speaker 2: implying it was her i was just trying to say i'm not setting you up but i need your help [01:34:06] Speaker 1: on call b your mom you call your mom back and and you stay prover a little bit and ultimately you say you think someone's trying to blackmail you that's crazy why does it sound like this is something that's [01:34:20] Speaker 2: new and unfathomable to you at that moment well because i wasn't even following what my mom was talking about on the first call and on the second call um which she shocked me when she said that and i'd been extorted before and her saying to bring cash just everything just didn't sound right [01:34:40] Speaker 1: could we play clip four please this is from dolce i'm sorry from what it's four from dolce okay [01:35:02] Speaker 5: so [01:35:32] Speaker 1: even if they had any evidence the first words out of your mouth on this clip even if they had any evidence no strike the quote is if you say if they had any evidence we'd have already gone to the airport and i know you already testified about this but but does an innocent person say if they had any [01:35:54] Speaker 2: evidence right katie's saying it's the police and i'm saying we're innocent they're not going to have any evidence to show we were part of something that we were part of if we had any part of this we'd [01:36:04] Speaker 1: be going to the airport right now they're not going to have any evidence because you were careful [01:36:10] Speaker 2: no because we weren't a part of this you were smart no we weren't a part of this you walled yourself off i was sure they're not going to have evidence to show i did something i didn't do so we're not running to the airport and you're untouchable right no we didn't do a murder i wasn't part of a murder there's no reason to run to the airport in the next clip you're discussing what's going to [01:36:32] Speaker 1: happen if if this person that did the bump goes to the police and you're going through all these scenarios you know these possibilities wait if he goes to the police yeah the black miller goes to the police they're going to say where's the weapon he's not going to know he's just going to have hearsay basically someone told me they did it it's not going to be enough to get the investigation anywhere why are you thinking through the possibility of the blackmailer going to the cops if the black miller doesn't have any dirt on you to take to the cops i wasn't thinking about the [01:37:08] Speaker 2: black note what i was trying to say is i don't know anything about sigfredo i don't know anything about this crime i was trying to tell her that i'm harmless i don't have any knowledge of what went on like the last thing i wanted is that now that she's saying it's the police is someone to come and kill me and think i'm some kind of loose head so that's why i'm saying that but that's not what you're saying [01:37:28] Speaker 1: you're saying if this is a person that lewis rivera ran his mouth to and they go to the police it's going to be worth zero because they're not going to know anything other than hey my brother [01:37:42] Speaker 2: told me this i don't know if i was saying when someone knows louis rivera i was trying to make [01:37:46] Speaker 1: a point that i don't know anything and then you suggest what they would have to do is get him to wear a wire and get the person to confess and that's probably what this what this could be an effort to do [01:37:58] Speaker 2: right well they're thinking that we were part of a murder so that's this was the same thing i said before is that this is their theory so this is a police tactic and it could be either a bad guy or the police and this is this is how they're pursuing it exactly so as long as you keep your mouth shut you can get away with murder right no not at all isn't that what you told ryan fitzpatrick no ryan fitzpatrick is someone who stole over half a mole of dollars that's not my question sir [01:38:24] Speaker 1: did you say that to ryan no never never at all why do you go into so much detail about rental car examples let's start with strike that can you agree that the prius you knew that the police were looking for a prius at the time you met at this [01:38:41] Speaker 2: dolce restaurant i think it had been released at that time all right and you're and you heard the [01:38:49] Speaker 1: recording you're you're arguing let's play the clip this is going to be clip i think let's play seven and 8 please. Don't try. [01:39:25] Speaker 4: I think we have to continue with my car. He's had a car for two minutes. He's got a DEC and he got out of the parking lot. It has nothing to do with the building. Outside of that one, if you have a car and you have a link to the right near that car, it's a car. Okay. But you have to prove that they were also driving that day and rented it. What if you rented a car and I had a DEC night and I parked for the weekend and I'll bring you back on Tuesday. Yeah, sure. So you rented a car. You've been in that car. I drive it to the fucking Orlando. I robbed the car in Orlando. I come back and I go to the DEC and he goes, okay, thanks. And if you rented it, what if you were fucking out all weekend even though I booked a car in something and I brought it back? Okay. I don't want to see. I don't have any knowledge. And I think this person is pretending to, but we don't. I don't want someone painted it. [01:40:36] Speaker 1: Sounds like you're saying even if they track down the Prius, even if there's DNA or fingerprints in the Prius, meaning like they can link someone to the Prius, that's not going to be enough evidence to make any arrests in this case. Is that what you're saying? [01:41:06] Speaker 2: No, not at all. What I'm doing is I'm restating. [01:41:11] Speaker 1: You've answered my question. [01:41:12] Speaker 2: Can I give you an answer? [01:41:13] Speaker 1: On redirect, you'll have an opportunity. My question was. [01:41:17] Speaker 6: One moment. [01:41:19] Speaker 1: My question was. [01:41:19] Speaker 6: We're not just wildly arguing. Mr. Adelson, please answer the question. Okay. [01:41:25] Speaker 1: I can just ask you a yes or no question. [01:41:27] Speaker 2: Please allow me to answer your question. [01:41:29] Speaker 1: Okay. Can I? Yeah. [01:41:30] Speaker 2: Okay, sure. What I was saying to Katie is that the information she had just told me in the car about Sigfredo not being there when the crime was committed, she told me that Sigfredo was high on drugs at the hotel and that Luis had rented a car and that he's the one who killed Dan. And I'm restating to her that I don't have any knowledge of what went on and that all I know is that Sigfredo wasn't even there when this happened. So that's what I'm restating to her. [01:42:02] Speaker 1: That Sigfredo can't be caught even if he's connected to the crime? [01:42:07] Speaker 2: I know that Sigfredo wasn't the one who killed Dan. [01:42:10] Speaker 1: Okay. Wouldn't it be good for you? Because you know now that Sigfredo is the extortionist, right? She just told you that in the car? [01:42:22] Speaker ?: Sigfredo, yeah. [01:42:23] Speaker 1: Okay. And wouldn't it be good for you if the police investigation into the Prius led to the arrest of the killers slash extortionists? [01:42:35] Speaker 2: If they arrested the people that killed Dan? [01:42:38] Speaker 1: Yeah. [01:42:39] Speaker 2: I know the extortion would stop. As long as I kept my mouth shut, I'd be safe. [01:42:44] Speaker 1: Right. So why are you trying to argue to her that the car is not going to lead anywhere and they're not going to be able to do anything with the car? [01:42:53] Speaker 2: That's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying that I know that Sigfredo wasn't the one who killed him. [01:43:01] Speaker 1: Did you say on this recording, if they're a bad guy, there's two ways of dealing with it. Go ahead and contact the police. They'll contact him, the black member, and arrange a setup. Take him down and he'll proffer 10 years and now tell us everything you know or else you're going to serve 10 years in prison. Next thing you know, this person is singing. He's calling out your name. My parents are going to have to say, going to have to tell the story of what happened. Singing about what? About the extortion? [01:43:36] Speaker 2: No, I think you're reading it wrong. I know the audible is bad. [01:43:40] Speaker 1: What would the... [01:43:41] Speaker 2: Are those the words? [01:43:42] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. What would the extortionist, and now I'm referring to the one that contacted your mother. [01:43:48] Speaker 2: The Latin King extortion. [01:43:50] Speaker 1: Well, they're both Latin Kings, right? [01:43:52] Speaker 2: The second extortion. [01:43:55] Speaker 1: What would they have to sing about? [01:44:00] Speaker 2: The second extortion would be singing and talking about the first extortion, where they learned their information from. [01:44:07] Speaker 1: Who cares? That doesn't have anything to do with you. [01:44:09] Speaker 2: Well, when they catch the first extortion, Katie's tied to them and I'm tied to Katie. They're going to come talk to us and we're going to be in danger when we tell them what happened. So, I was saying if they catch the second, they're going to turn in on the first. And that's the same thing I said yesterday. [01:44:24] Speaker 1: You gave very precise instructions to Catherine McBandlaw on what she was to say when she calls the phone number, right? [01:44:33] Speaker 2: Yeah. Would you do that? Absolutely. [01:44:36] Speaker 1: And then you say, quote, you'd better kill him because he's going to be a big problem. And he knows who you are. If he can't do it, I'll have someone else do it. Aren't you telling her that if Garcia can't handle this problem and kill whoever's behind this, you will have someone else do it? [01:44:56] Speaker 2: You're reading it totally wrong. [01:44:58] Speaker 1: It's a yes or no question, sir. [01:44:59] Speaker 3: No, you're wrong. [01:45:00] Speaker 1: When Dan Markell's murder was taking too long to happen, didn't you tell Catherine McBandlaw that if she couldn't get it done, you would find someone else to do it? [01:45:10] Speaker 2: No, I've never said that either. [01:45:14] Speaker 1: And then you say in the recording, I'm back to Dolce Noon. Yeah, and when the, guess what? When the effing police show up and there's a doctor, there's an oral surgeon standing there with a dead gang member in his effing driveway, they're not going to come down too hard on me. So, you knew you'd be believed if you went to the police, right? [01:45:39] Speaker 2: I didn't know I'd be believed, but I feared for my life. [01:45:43] Speaker 1: And then you say, so help me God, if they fuck with my family, it's going to be fucking Nazi shit because this will be done. You know what I'm saying? I mean, Katie, I don't care what I spend, okay? I swear to God. What is Nazi shit? [01:45:59] Speaker 2: That's an expression that Katie would use to describe someone that's going crazy. I think the Nazis were absolutely crazy people. So, I'm saying I'm going to get somebody to go crazy on the guy that's trying to extort my mom for money. I'll pay someone to go threaten him and to scare him. I was not talking about killing anybody. [01:46:16] Speaker 1: Well, you say the word kill. Yes? [01:46:19] Speaker 2: No. Oh, when you're putting the words in my mouth? Well, we can do that in a sentence. [01:46:24] Speaker 1: Do you say the word kill? [01:46:26] Speaker 2: I'm talking about if Sigfredo's coming after you, he's such a dangerous guy, you'd have to kill him to stop him. That's the only thing you could do. I'm not talking about killing the extorter. I'm talking about second extortion. I'm saying that if Sigfredo's coming after you, the only thing that you could do is you'd have to kill him to stop him. I'm not talking about killing anybody. I'm talking about that's the only way that you could stop Sigfredo from coming after you is you would have to kill him. And that's exactly what I said there. You're wrong. That's exactly what I said. [01:46:56] Speaker 1: All right. Thank you. Nazis kill, right? Isn't that like their primary objective? [01:47:03] Speaker 2: No, I think Nazis are insane, crazy people. [01:47:07] Speaker 1: That exterminate, right? [01:47:11] Speaker 2: That kill, yes. But they're crazy. And that was an expression she would use. And that's when I used it to her, but basically saying I'm going to have someone go crazy on this guy. I could have used the word crazy. I thought it was interchangeable. [01:47:25] Speaker 1: Isn't what you're doing here in this portion of the tape feeling her out to make sure Garcia doesn't have any bad feelings toward you? [01:47:35] Speaker 2: When I said it, yeah. I thought he could have been behind the second extortion. I think I've said that before. [01:47:42] Speaker 1: And you go into like how your relationships didn't overlap. You never disrespected him. And you mentioned that, you know, you don't think that they, I assume you mean these other people, associates that have contacted your mom, would want to mess with his connections. Right? You remember? [01:48:01] Speaker 2: You're talking about the copycat extortion. [01:48:03] Speaker 1: Right. And then you asked if he's too far removed or can he still make a call. Are you referring to Garcia in that? [01:48:14] Speaker 2: Yeah. Exactly. [01:48:16] Speaker 1: So can Garcia make a call to try to figure out who this is? [01:48:20] Speaker 2: Can Garcia help stop the second extortion? Someone's doing a piggyback extortion on the first. That's exactly what I said. [01:48:30] Speaker 1: On the topic of conversation for Kathy McBandway, don't you say I look for things to do? I show you that's the difference. You don't ask me for shit. You said all those things, right? [01:48:41] Speaker 2: Absolutely. Because that's proving what I've been saying all along is that I didn't think she was part of this. So I was doing things to keep her happy from time to time. Ethan's birthday I brought up there. I gave her $300. I helped her out with the car when her car was broken. For sure. [01:48:56] Speaker 1: And then you say, listen, you giving somebody money is not an admission of any kind of guilt. Would paying the money have made her look guilty? [01:49:05] Speaker 2: That's what she was saying to me. She said it's the police. You can't pay the police. They're going to think you were part of a murder and they're going to arrest you. [01:49:11] Speaker 1: But if it was an extortionist, it could have created a monster, right? [01:49:17] Speaker 2: And if you don't pay the extortionist, you could get killed. [01:49:20] Speaker 1: Or you could keep getting extorted. I'm sorry, go ahead. [01:49:23] Speaker 2: And I said if you don't pay the extortionist, you could get killed or you could keep getting extorted. [01:49:28] Speaker 1: But your main concern was that if we pay, this guy will think I'm an ATM machine, right? He'll keep coming back again and again and again. Don't you articulate that to Catherine McBanawha? [01:49:41] Speaker 2: If it was an extorter, that was one of the concerns. And the other concern was not paying him and getting killed. [01:49:49] Speaker 1: But what you say is, well, I don't remember the quote exactly. The main concern. What I'm most worried about is that they're going to keep coming back for more, right? [01:49:58] Speaker 2: I don't remember using the word the main concern. [01:50:01] Speaker 1: But what you don't say in here is like what you or your homies have been doing to me for two years. [01:50:10] Speaker 2: Of course not. I don't want her to think I'm setting her up. [01:50:17] Speaker 1: Why are you explaining extortion and how extortion works to Catherine McBanawha? [01:50:24] Speaker 2: In there? Yeah. Because I know. [01:50:28] Speaker 1: But she knows too, doesn't she? [01:50:30] Speaker 2: So, I repeat myself. I do that. [01:50:33] Speaker 1: You also explain it to your mother how extortion works. And she has known about it for two years too, right? [01:50:40] Speaker 2: From what I told her, yeah. Yeah. [01:50:42] Speaker ?: Yeah. [01:50:47] Speaker 2: I'm reminding her. [01:50:49] Speaker 1: Then you say, if someone's messing with you, they're messing with me. And if someone's messing with me, they're messing with you. It's one and the same. Right? [01:50:59] Speaker 2: Yes, I said that. [01:51:00] Speaker 1: You're in this together, right? [01:51:01] Speaker 2: We're both innocent. [01:51:12] Speaker 1: You were very obviously relieved on the wire when you came to the conclusion that this was law enforcement. Did you agree with that? [01:51:22] Speaker 2: Very relieved, yeah. [01:51:23] Speaker 1: All right. And at that same time that on the wire you're expressing relief, I should say, shortly after all the relief expressing the wire, we've got the arrest of Catherine McBanawha, right? [01:51:42] Speaker 3: No. [01:51:43] Speaker 1: Wow. Okay. Would you agree that it goes relief on the wire, then arrest Catherine McBanawha? [01:51:52] Speaker 2: Do you want to give me dates? Because Cathy was arrested six months later. [01:51:57] Speaker 1: Okay. [01:51:58] Speaker 2: The wire was in April. [01:51:59] Speaker 1: Can we agree that you were very relieved on the wire and that six months later, Catherine McBanawha was arrested? [01:52:06] Speaker 2: She was arrested six months later, correct. [01:52:09] Speaker 1: And six months later, after you were completely relieved on the wire, you begin to exhibit these extreme behavior changes that we've heard about. And what is your explanation for that? [01:52:24] Speaker 2: Because I thought I'd be falsely arrested. [01:52:28] Speaker 1: Did you encourage Catherine McBanawha to reconcile with Garcia? Is it a yes or no? [01:52:52] Speaker 2: Yes, for sure I did. [01:52:56] Speaker 1: Was that a good decision for her or a good decision for you? [01:53:03] Speaker 2: Neither. [01:53:06] Speaker 1: You've heard your lawyers say that you talk a lot. Do you agree with that? [01:53:11] Speaker 3: Yes, I do. [01:53:12] Speaker 1: And you talk a lot on the wire, right? [01:53:14] Speaker 3: Yes, I do. [01:53:15] Speaker 1: Do you agree you're not a direct person? [01:53:25] Speaker 2: Am I a direct person? [01:53:26] Speaker 1: There's a lot of circular talking on the wire. [01:53:30] Speaker 2: However you want to describe my mannerisms and talking, you're welcome to describe it. [01:53:37] Speaker 1: I'll do that in closing. What I'm asking is, do you agree that you are like that? [01:53:42] Speaker 2: I think at times I'm direct, for sure. [01:53:45] Speaker 1: Do you have a way of saying things without really saying it? [01:53:50] Speaker 2: No, I think I'm pretty direct with things. [01:53:53] Speaker 1: Do you think you can talk your way out of this? [01:53:56] Speaker 2: No, I don't. I'm not part of a murder. [01:53:58] Speaker 1: Who are they going to believe, right? An oral surgeon or a gangster? [01:54:03] Speaker 2: That's extorting me in my driveway and coming and threatening me? [01:54:06] Speaker 1: You're untouchable, right? [01:54:08] Speaker 2: No, I'm not part of this murder. [01:54:10] Speaker 1: There was a lot of talk about going to the police on the wire, which I think we've well established did not happen. But you've always gone to the police before, right? [01:54:20] Speaker 2: I've had other things that have gone to the police before, yeah. [01:54:23] Speaker 1: You've gone to the police in reference to something to do with your child's mother? Yes or no? [01:54:29] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:54:30] Speaker 1: You've gone to the police when you were threatened to be blackmailed over something with a woman back in 2015, remember that? [01:54:39] Speaker 3: No, I didn't go to the police. [01:54:41] Speaker 1: Did you send a letter from your lawyer indicating that her, describing her actions as an attempted shakedown and indicating that not only will Dr. Adelson never pay a settlement, he will undoubtedly prevail and seek attorney's fees against your client? [01:54:57] Speaker 2: Right, that's a civil complaint and somebody was making an unfounded civil complaint and threatening filing a lawsuit and an attorney handled the civil complaint. The police were never notified. But it was a civil suit. [01:55:09] Speaker 1: It was somebody trying to shake you down for money. [01:55:11] Speaker 2: It was an unfounded claim from a civil suit to me and another dentist that it was involving. [01:55:18] Speaker 1: It was a claim that potentially had criminal implications as well, wasn't it, doctor? [01:55:23] Speaker 2: For me? [01:55:24] Speaker 1: Yes. [01:55:24] Speaker 2: No. There was never a police investigation with that. [01:55:28] Speaker 1: In 2018, did you report an aggravated assault where a vehicle was driving aggressively and narrowly avoided striking you? [01:55:34] Speaker 2: I had a reporter almost kill my 10-week-old puppy dog that I was walking because I was going for a walk in the morning and he was stalking outside my house. [01:55:43] Speaker 1: In 2018, did you report an aggravated assault where a vehicle was driving aggressively and narrowly avoided striking you? [01:55:50] Speaker 2: It was more than what sent my dog to, but yeah. [01:55:53] Speaker 1: Do your nephews deserve to know the whole truth about who killed their father? [01:55:58] Speaker 2: Yeah, now they do. [01:55:59] Speaker 1: Do Danny's parents deserve to know what happened to their son? [01:56:03] Speaker 2: Absolutely. [01:56:04] Speaker 1: And you say you knew. I mean, you now say you knew a big piece of what happened, right? [01:56:10] Speaker 2: Yes. [01:56:11] Speaker 1: Do you feel bad about not volunteering that to Danny's parents? [01:56:17] Speaker 2: I feel a sense of relief that now I was able to tell everybody what finally happened. [01:56:22] Speaker 1: Yesterday. Almost 10 years later, right? [01:56:25] Speaker 2: Yeah. [01:56:27] Speaker 1: And that's because you didn't just know a big piece of it. You were a big piece of it, weren't you, doctor? [01:56:33] Speaker 2: I was extorted and I knew a lot, yeah. [01:56:37] Speaker 1: One moment, please, Your Honor. [01:56:41] Speaker 6: Before we redirect, do any of the members of the jury need to take a break before we continue with the examinations? The bailiff will escort you back to the jury room. We'll have a brief 10-minute break before we have a redirect. Members of the jury, I was informed by an unnamed source that some baked goods have made their way into the jury room. If there is a red velvet cake and no one brought enough to share, contempt powers will be exercised. Mr. Rauschbaum, you may redirect your client. [01:57:23] Speaker 5: Thank you. [01:57:34] Speaker 7: Do you remember when Ms. Kappelman asked you about that text on August 25th, 2014, when Katie said to lose her number? Do you remember those questions? [01:57:50] Speaker 2: Yeah. [01:57:51] Speaker 7: Isn't it true that within 12 hours of that text, you're offering her help on her car with an individual named Sully? [01:58:01] Speaker 2: Yes, I remember that. [01:58:02] Speaker 7: Why are you offering her that help just within hours after that text? [01:58:08] Speaker 2: Because I wanted to keep Katie happy, and she was getting mad at me, and I needed her protection. I didn't want her to stop protecting me. [01:58:17] Speaker 7: Now, there was a lot of questions about timing, and I want to make sure that everyone has this clear, because it's really important. In 2014, did you think Catherine McBanua was extorting you? No, not at all. Now, after she went to trial and testified, and after you saw the evidence of the money that was in her accounts, did you know that you were wrong, and in fact, she was the person who was extorting you? Either with Siegfriedo or without him. [01:58:58] Speaker 2: Yeah, and that wasn't until 2019, five years later. [01:59:02] Speaker 7: So when Ms. Kappelman shows you all of those text messages and emails in 2014, that seemed friendly. At that point, and in 2016, that seemed friendly. And all the gifts. At that point in time, what did you think she was? [01:59:21] Speaker 2: I thought she was protecting me, and she got dragged into this the way I did. [01:59:25] Speaker 7: Now, do you remember when Ms. Kappelman showed you that indictment? [01:59:33] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:59:33] Speaker 7: And it had your name on it, and Catherine McBanua's name on it as co-conspirators? [01:59:39] Speaker 3: Yeah. [01:59:40] Speaker 7: Do you remember when she directly asked your sister in this courtroom if she participated in a birthday gift for your dad of the murder of Professor Markell? [01:59:54] Speaker 2: I remember her asking that. [01:59:55] Speaker 7: So her name's not in that indictment, but were you in this courtroom when the first thing in opening the state put on the board was a picture of all of you, because their theory is that all of you participated in this murder, right? [02:00:10] Speaker 2: Yeah, they said me, my mom, my dad, and my sister. [02:00:17] Speaker 7: And their theory is wrong about your sister, correct? [02:00:20] Speaker 2: A hundred percent. [02:00:21] Speaker 7: Just like it's wrong about you? A hundred percent. [02:00:25] Speaker 2: The reason I didn't pay it all off is because it became like a life insurance policy, and I felt like every month when I paid, I felt like they weren't going to kill me because if they killed me, they wouldn't get the money next month. [02:00:49] Speaker 7: Ms. Kappelman asked you, does it make sense, why wouldn't they just rob you? Remember when she asked you that question? [02:00:57] Speaker 3: Yeah. [02:00:58] Speaker 7: Were you in the courtroom, do you recall, when you were in the courtroom, do you recall Luis Rivera saying he just wanted to rob the lady? Do you recall that? [02:01:10] Speaker 2: Yes. [02:01:11] Speaker 7: And do you recall he said that Siegfriedo Garcia told him, that Katie told him, we can't just rob the lady. We have to do a murder. [02:01:21] Speaker 2: Yes. [02:01:23] Speaker 7: Now, you don't know, you were told in the car that Luis Rivera was the killer. You've learned since that Siegfriedo Garcia was the shooter, right? [02:01:34] Speaker 2: I learned that, yeah, I learned that he was convicted of shooting Dan. But in 2016, when I was sitting in the car, Katie was telling me that he went up in the rental car and that he was high on drugs and that it was Luis Rivera, the head of the Latin Kings, that killed Dan. [02:01:48] Speaker 7: She was protecting her husband. [02:01:51] Speaker 2: That's what she was telling me. At the time, I thought she wasn't a part of it and she was telling me the truth. [02:01:56] Speaker 7: Now, Ms. Kappelman asked you about other times that you have called the police since this case began. Well, not since this case began, but since the events of this case. She asked you about a photographer in a car. She asked you about a woman who's the mother of your child when you called the police. In either of those circumstances, was someone threatening your life? [02:02:30] Speaker 2: No, not at all. [02:02:31] Speaker 7: In either of those circumstances, was someone threatening your family's life? [02:02:36] Speaker 3: Not at all. [02:02:37] Speaker 7: In either of those circumstances, had within hours before someone been shot in broad daylight in their driveway? [02:02:47] Speaker 3: No, not at all. [02:02:49] Speaker 7: By the way, you heard on the wire about, at some point, your jet ski getting stolen, right? [02:02:56] Speaker 2: Yes. [02:02:57] Speaker 7: And do you recall what you say on the wire about your jet ski getting stolen? [02:03:01] Speaker 2: I said I don't even want to catch the people. [02:03:04] Speaker 7: Well, I'll ask it a different way. When your jet ski was stolen, did you call the police? [02:03:08] Speaker 1: Objection, relevance. [02:03:10] Speaker 7: I stand. May we go sidebar, Judge? [02:03:16] Speaker 6: Approach. Continue with your examination. Did you recall your jet ski getting stolen? [02:03:26] Speaker 2: Yes. [02:03:27] Speaker 7: Did you call the police when your jet ski got stolen? [02:03:30] Speaker 2: No. [02:03:30] Speaker 7: Why not? [02:03:31] Speaker 2: Because I didn't want the people who knew where I lived to come back if I put them in prison. [02:03:38] Speaker 7: Now, Ms. Kappelman asked you several questions about why now are you telling what really happened? Tell the jury why you're now telling what happened. [02:03:55] Speaker 2: If I don't tell everyone what happened now, I'm going to spend the rest of my life in prison for something I didn't do. [02:04:00] Speaker 7: I have no further questions, Your Honor. [02:04:01] Speaker 6: You're going to stop down, Mr. Edelson. [02:04:03] Speaker ?: Thank you. [02:04:08] Speaker 6: The attorney's going to approach a gun on a brief matter. Members of the jury, I have news that's going to make you terribly sad. Well, before I give that, Mr. Rauschbaum, do you have any other witnesses you intend to call? No, Judge. We rest. Does the state plan to call a rebuttal case at this time? [02:04:34] Speaker 1: No, Your Honor. [02:04:35] Speaker 6: With both parties having rested their cases, I am going to release you for the afternoon to return on Monday. My, I know, shocked faces. With that, once again, I'm going to give you the same instruction. Do not discuss the case with each other or anyone else. Do not watch any news coverage. Do not find out any information concerning this matter. Again, this is going to be extremely important in reaching the end of this case. This instruction is being given to you for a very specific reason of not causing a mistrial by taking in information that did not take place in this courtroom. I know everyone before has agreed to abide by this and also related that you understood this instruction, but the reason I keep repeating it is because it's that important. Have a good weekend. We will see you Monday morning for closing arguments. Please report at 830. [02:05:47] Speaker ?: Thank you.