Josh Shapiro: Sec. Hegseth behaving like ‘eight-year-old playing with toy soldiers’

[0:02] Welcome back. On Saturday, I sat down with the Democratic governor of Pennsylvania, Josh Shapiro, [0:08] and I began by asking him whether he saw Tuesday's results as a win for Democrats or a loss for [0:15] Republicans. I think there was absolutely a repudiation of Trump and Vance, but there was [0:22] absolutely a core group of Democrats. Let me just focus on governors for a moment who went out and [0:28] were very specific about what they were going to do, the change they wanted to bring about, [0:32] the things that we could do as governors to bring down costs and increase opportunities. I think [0:39] it's interesting that of the 10 biggest states in America, nine of them are now led by Democratic [0:44] governors, and 75 percent of the American population is led by a Democratic governor. So yes, there was [0:51] absolutely a repudiation of Donald Trump. There was also an acknowledgement the Democrats had better [0:56] ideas who were on the ballot and a better approach to governing and getting stuff done. As you have [1:02] said and Democrats have said, part of the agenda includes oversight and investigations, [1:08] how should Democrats make sure that oversight doesn't come at the expense of taking action [1:15] on the economy? We've got to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. I don't think just because [1:20] you're pursuing oversight, it means you don't care about cutting costs. I think you do both. And [1:26] you know, I think Hakeem Jeffries has made very clear that both are going to be on the agenda for [1:32] the first 100 days and for these next two years. And I think there are leaders in place who can both [1:39] ensure that there is actual accountability and to make sure that costs are being cut, policies are being [1:45] passed or at least put on the president's desk. I would just say one more thing about accountability. [1:51] It is very important that it is real accountability that informs the American people and changes some [1:58] of these corrupt practices, not just accountability. And I mean this with the most respect that gets [2:05] headlines on your news program. I think it has to be about real accountability. I'll just give you [2:10] one example and sadly there are hundreds of examples. The defense secretary at the president's [2:18] direction are blowing up fishing boats in the middle of oceans. There has been no accountability [2:24] for that. There have been no oversight hearings about that. There's been no real questioning [2:29] about why that's happening. It is critically important that Secretary Hakeem Jeff answer those [2:34] questions, that anyone in the White House that was part of the chain of command to order those strikes [2:40] answers for it. And that ultimately it's not just about the headlines that come out of it, [2:46] but real accountability for how our military is conducting itself. Again, I don't want to suggest [2:51] that's the most or the only thing most important or the only thing we need to do when it comes to [2:55] accountability. But it's one example of the serious approach we've got to take to ensuring accountability. [3:01] Do you think Secretary Hegseth should be impeached? Is that accountability? I mean, look, that's a question [3:06] for Congress to determine. But there has to be real questions asked. There has to be real accountability. [3:11] I would just tell you from my perspective, he is completely incompetent. He's like an eight-year-old [3:17] playing with toy soldiers every day. He is someone who I think is making America less safe. And there [3:23] has to be real accountability. If the Congress determines that the best approach is impeachment, [3:28] then they'll do that. It does seem, and you're closer to this than I am, it does seem that there [3:35] is a growing consensus amongst not just Democrats, but Republicans as well in the current Congress, [3:41] not even the new Congress, that his time as Defense Secretary should be up. [3:46] Well, there's of course a robust discussion within the Democratic Party about potentially impeaching [3:52] President Trump. Do you believe that President Trump has committed impeachable offenses in his [3:58] second term? So again, I think there has to be real accountability. We've just spent a few moments [4:03] talking about that. And it will be up to the Congress to determine, since that is a political tool of [4:09] Congress, whether they want to go down that path. Here's what I will say. Over the last hundred years, [4:14] one of the worst decisions ever by the Supreme Court of the United States has been to grant to the [4:22] President absolute and total immunity for any crimes he may commit. It is clear that this [4:28] President is corrupt. Kristen, he's put $2 billion in his pocket during his time as President. That's [4:35] $2 billion that has come out of our pockets. It's $2 billion that has led him to not regulating AI. [4:43] It's $2 billion that has led him to making decisions that are against America's national [4:50] security interests, selling chips to China, as an example, which undermines our national security, [4:57] but probably indirectly enriches the President or his children. And so I think there has to be [5:03] accountability for that. Unfortunately, the Supreme Court has taken away legal accountability. The [5:08] Congress has to hold him accountable. They'll determine what the best approach is. [5:12] Let's talk about your fellow Pennsylvania Democrat now, Senator John Fetterman, [5:17] who has broken with the Democratic Party at various moments, have been critical of the Democratic Party [5:24] as well. Now that Democrats have a comfortable majority in the Senate, do you believe that Senator [5:32] John Fetterman still belongs in the Democratic Party? I mean, look, I have no idea what John is going to [5:38] do. Probably wouldn't shock you. He has not confided in me what his political plans are. But here's what I [5:44] would say. The good people of Pennsylvania have just voted, and they don't want people enabling [5:49] Donald Trump anymore. They want real accountability for Trump. They want people who actually show up in [5:56] their communities every day and do the hard work to make their lives better. And I think John's got a lot of [6:02] work to do to earn the trust of the people of Pennsylvania, re-earn the trust of people of [6:06] Pennsylvania. He's got to show up, and he should speak to the people of Pennsylvania about what his [6:11] plans are. Do you think that Senator Fetterman should face a primary challenge in 2028? I think [6:17] there's going to be a robust primary challenge. That's what you're anticipating if people reached [6:21] out to you about that? I think there's no question that people are lining up to run, and he has to [6:25] decide if he's going to run. If Senator Fetterman decided tomorrow to become a Republican, would you [6:31] be comfortable with that? Would you support that? Well, no, because the people of Pennsylvania elected [6:37] a Democrat to that seat. So he would have a lot of explaining to do. As you sit here today, are you [6:44] more likely than not to run for president in 2028? I mean, look, first off, I'm humbled you'd even [6:51] have me on your program, let alone ask me that question. And I appreciate the support we have [6:58] received in Pennsylvania overwhelmingly from Democrats, Republicans, independents. I'm also [7:03] grateful for the opportunity to do something that Democratic governors in my lifetime have not been [7:07] able to do, and that is govern with a legislative trifecta. So a big part of my focus right now [7:13] is on figuring out how we advance policies like raising the minimum wage and many other things that [7:18] have been blocked by Republicans who've controlled my legislature for generations. That's where my [7:23] focus is. And maybe getting a little bit of sleep after the election. Sleep sounds good. Do you commit [7:29] to serving your full four-year term? Well, I committed to run for governor, and that's the work I'm [7:35] focused on doing. And if I've got something to say about my future, I'd love to come back on your [7:39] show and talk about it. Does Vice President Kamala Harris's decision on whether to run for president [7:44] impact your decision at all? I think everyone should make their decisions on their timelines in a way [7:51] that they see fit.