Jodi Arias Trial - Day 21 - Part 2

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: please be seated the record will show the presence of the jury the defendant and all counsel exhibit 458 is admitted mr martinez you may continue with cross-examination [00:00:43] Speaker 2: that can be referenced involving somebody named monnie and their baptism correct yes and regardless of whether it happened on a sunday or thursday that's the same incident because you missed lonnie's baptism right yes exhibit 458 is the entry for sunday january 20 2008. do you see that yes and it starts out well i'm at the institute building dobson and southern the sister missionaries correct yes there are some two blank pages and then a third page that begins and says so i went to the church building and met with the sisters and gave them a ride to the institute building where i am now correct yes that's part of the same entry for that january 20th 2008 date correct yes there are no in the whole body of that particular entry there are no other dates i mentioned correct there's another day reference but not a date i'm asking dates aren't i right it's implied it is no i'm asking dates do you see anywhere in those five or six pages another date yes show me where there is another date date date in exhibit 242.002 [00:02:40] Speaker 3: i'm counting this as a date where it says thursday [00:02:55] Speaker 2: it says thursday night doesn't it yes it doesn't say a date does it no and we're getting to it when it says thursday that's at the lower right hand corner of this exhibit number 458 correct that's correct and your testimony involving the hot rocks exhibit number 457 does indicate that you thought it was a thursday right yes you indicated previously that you were having trouble remembering it did this exhibit refresh your recollection yes and so you're indicating i'm sitting with next to sisters night who's totally trying to read this and lonnie who was just confirmed today right yes and that's the line that we we've been talking about right yes he was baptized thursday night which is the date that is referenced in your previous testimony right right right shame on me i was quote unquote wrapped up in other activities that pulled me away from attending the baptism and the reason that's in quotes is because you're trying to get across something else other than being wrapped up right yes you're trying to get across that this involved a liaison or a sexual liaison with travis alexander right yes and you said namely work but then getting prepped to go to travis's house for the night where we explored every naughty fantasy we could conjure up in our fruitful imaginations that we haven't already fulfilled with one another i love him i really do right yes and the fantasy that you guys that you're talking about involved the tootsie pops and pop rocks correct part of it did yes part of it well ma'am this transcript that we talked about only talks about the tootsie pops and pop rocks doesn't it no it mentions bubble bath it mentions what the bubbles and the bubble bath is part of the tootsie pops and pop rocks right they were separate the same night same night is that is that how this reads today the transfer is that how it reads i don't know if it reads that way but well take a look at 459 which is the partial transcript and see if that's how it reads that it's different different how i don't know well the way you were trying to tell me that it was different but it talks about a different sequence of events [00:06:04] Speaker ?: so [00:06:34] Speaker 3: yes it references two different sequences which are you talking about the issue involving the [00:06:40] Speaker 2: the bathtub yes isn't that part of the tootsie pops and pop rocks and engagement if you will not in the bathtub it didn't happen on the same day ma'am same day yes same encounter yes i guess well no what i'm saying is did he ejaculate twice that night yes so are you saying that when you were involved in the bathtub that was hours later than the tootsie pops and pop rocks is that what you're saying no it was part of the same encounter wasn't it yes i guess when you keep saying i guess you were there though right yeah i was there and you were enjoying it weren't you yes and you enjoyed the tootsie pops and the pop rocks correct i enjoyed his attention no i want to know if you enjoyed the tootsie pops and the pop rocks i'm not asking you about his attention all right i can't say enjoy would be the right word well you so what you're saying is involved when we talk about the tootsie pops and the pop rocks you're saying you didn't enjoy it did not enjoy it correct i'm not saying that either well there can't be a middle ground you either enjoyed it or you didn't right that's not correct oh so you can go you in your view you can go through and act and not enjoy it [00:08:02] Speaker 3: but also enjoy it what are you trying to say am i allowed to tell you what i'm trying to say i want [00:08:08] Speaker 2: to know whether or not you enjoyed it i wouldn't characterize it that way so you're saying you did [00:08:14] Speaker 3: not enjoy it just want to be if you're speaking only in the context of the tootsie pops and the pop rocks sure i wouldn't call it enjoyed you would not say that you enjoyed it right i would not say enjoyed [00:08:26] Speaker 2: and if we then take a look though at exhibit number 458 which references that encounter involving lani right um lani no you mean it didn't involve the baptism involving lani i don't understand your question well then let's just take a look at it okay we're talking about irrespective of the date we've referenced that as lani's baptism just for point of reference you remember we talked about that right that's right during this encounter that we've been calling lani's baptism there were some pop rocks and tootsie pops that were involved right [00:09:14] Speaker 3: no lani's baptism did not involve tootsie pops and pop rocks ma'am we both know what we're talking [00:09:19] Speaker 2: about this journal references lani's baptism doesn't it yes and you missed lani's baptism right yes and the reason you missed lani's baptism is because you were having a tootsie pop placed somewhere right yes that's one of the reasons okay and this exhibit here exhibit number 458 does say that you explored every naughty fantasy we could conjure up in our fruitful imaginations that we haven't already fulfilled with one another right yes you this doesn't say that you didn't enjoy it does it no it does say you did enjoy it doesn't it i don't see the word enjoy in there no did i say the word enjoy was in there yes it says you explored every naughty fantasy we could conjure up in our fruitful imaginations you're saying that having a fruitful imagination that's not enjoyment is what you're saying right i'm not saying that and you're saying that every naughty fantasy that's a bad thing right that's what you're saying i'm not saying that well the pop rocks were part of this naughty fantasy weren't they part of it yes and they were part of fulfilling fulfilling your imaginations right his imagination yes oh so it wasn't so even though you wrote it he didn't write this did he i wrote it that's right and those are your words right yes and so even though you say haven't already fulfilled with one another these fruitful imaginations and all of that stuff well that doesn't really mean what it says is that what you're saying i'm not saying that well it doesn't distinguish between pop rocks and it doesn't distinguish between top tootsie pops does it no it doesn't and yet you're saying here that they are different right um no that's not what i'm saying it's good what you're saying goes against what's written there doesn't no it does not go against it where show me here point it out where it says i did not enjoy the tootsie pop encounter does it say that i didn't write anything like that in my journal it doesn't say anything there like that does it that's correct and it doesn't say anything there that you did not enjoy the uh pop rocks encounter does it that's right and nothing prevented you for writing that in there right that's right and you could have written anything that you wanted it's not like you didn't have pens right yeah that's right and you had enough space to write it because we know there was an entry after that right yes and it's a situation where it you considered this to be a secret kind of thing so that if you wrote whatever you wanted there you had a reasonable expectation that it would remain private right reasonable which means you had an expectation that it would remain private right more hope well you were living with another individual i think you [00:12:33] Speaker 3: said rachel correct not at this date okay who were you live where were you living i was living at 9634 [00:12:39] Speaker 2: east needle avenue in east mesa is that an apartment or is that where were you renting a room i was renting a room and in that room that you rented you kept this journal right yes so no one really had any authority to go into your room right that's not right well are you saying that people in that house went through your journal is that what you're saying i'm not saying that so you did have an expectation that your journal would remain private there right while it was at home yes so you're saying that somebody broke in and looked at your journal is that what you're saying no because that would be at home well you kept your journal at home didn't you i took it everywhere with me so what you're saying is if you went somewhere it could have fallen into the wrong hands is that what you're talking about yes you never reported to the police that your journal ever went anybody ever looked at your journal [00:13:39] Speaker 3: correct i don't think that's a crime so no i didn't well ma'am did i ask you if it was a crime no [00:13:43] Speaker 2: you didn't are you a lawyer do you know what a crime is and what isn't um i have a pretty good idea but i'm not an attorney and so if somebody broke into your house and read your journal you're saying that you wouldn't report it because you wouldn't think that was a crime right that's right [00:14:01] Speaker 3: not the breaking and entering part just the reading the journal part oh sorry so now you're drawing a [00:14:06] Speaker 2: distinction but isn't this where this journal was kept most of the time with you and your home [00:14:12] Speaker 3: no i misunderstood my understanding was that you were talking about if somebody was looking in my journal if that was if i would have reported that no i would not have reported somebody reading my journal [00:14:26] Speaker 2: to the police part of this encounter that you had in involving the tootsie pops also involved braids correct yes and um you you have a definite opinion on the braids don't you um [00:14:50] Speaker 3: yes i have an opinion and you think they're hot don't you um i guess well no you're the person [00:15:02] Speaker 2: that knows we don't want you to guess you think that the braids are hot don't you i think cute is more [00:15:09] Speaker 3: appropriate ma'am [00:15:16] Speaker 2: let's take a listen then i'll have this mark mentioned exhibit it's part of the conversation that you've had with mr alexander back on may 10th of 2008 on market i'll have you listen to it to see whether or not that is your voice and whether or not we're talking about faith rates it has not she's going to lay the foundation for it jury can't hear you know what i really liked is [00:16:04] Speaker 1: when we were in the bath with the candles and i had a braid yes there's an injection bubbles [00:16:11] Speaker 4: oh i love the braids you [00:16:41] Speaker ?: Thank you. Thank you. [00:17:41] Speaker 4: You know what I really like is when we were in the bath with the candles and I had the breath. [00:17:59] Speaker ?: I love the breath. [00:18:00] Speaker 4: I love the breath. I know if they're hot. That was your voice, right? [00:18:12] Speaker 2: Yes. And you're talking about braids, right? Yes. And you're talking about how much you like them, right? [00:18:20] Speaker ?: Yes. [00:18:21] Speaker 2: And you're also saying that they're hot, right? Yes. And this encounter involving the Pop Rocks and Tootsie Pops also involved braids, right? Yes. Yes. So you enjoyed those braids, right? [00:18:37] Speaker 3: I don't... It's not a yes or no answer. [00:18:42] Speaker 2: Well, we did hear you saying that you enjoyed them, right? Do you want to hear it again? No. You did hear that, right? I said I liked them. When you say that you liked them, isn't it true that that means that there's something that's enjoyable? Yes. Right? And you also said that they were hot, right? Yes. So during your sexual encounters with Mr. Alexander, if you wore braids, you thought they were hot and you liked them, right? Yes. So during your sexual encounters with Mr. Alexander, if you wore braids, you thought they were hot and you liked them, right? I liked his attention. Yes, it was hot and liked them. [00:19:15] Speaker ?: Restake the question. [00:19:16] Speaker 2: When you were with Mr. Alexander, isn't it true that you wore braids, you liked them? Yes. And with regard to the braids, isn't it true that when you were with Mr. Alexander, you thought the braids were hot? [00:19:45] Speaker 3: Okay. [00:19:46] Speaker 2: Oh, no, I'm not asking for an okay. I'm asking for you to tell me the truth. What is it that you believe? [00:19:51] Speaker 3: I believe that he thought it was hot, so it was hot. [00:19:54] Speaker 2: So what you're saying here with regard to exhibit number 460 and that telephone call that was played during your direct examination, you're saying you lied? No. Well, you want to listen here when you say that they're hot? [00:20:09] Speaker 3: I just heard it. Right. [00:20:11] Speaker 2: And so it doesn't say anything about you doing this with Mr. Alexander anywhere, does it? No, that's implied. [00:20:18] Speaker 3: It's implied? [00:20:19] Speaker 2: Let's listen to it and see where it's implied. [00:20:32] Speaker 4: You know what I really liked is when we were in the back with candles and I had the braids? There were some sort of bubbles that were on top of it. [00:20:40] Speaker 2: Oh, I love the braids. [00:20:42] Speaker 3: I know, but they're hot. [00:20:44] Speaker 2: Those are, that's your voice, right? [00:20:46] Speaker 3: Yes, and Travis's. Did I ask you if that was Travis's voice, ma'am? I didn't know which voice you were talking about. [00:20:52] Speaker 2: Did I ask you if that was Travis's voice? No. We're talking about your voice. That was your voice, right? Yes. And you do say that those braids are hot, right? [00:21:05] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:21:06] Speaker 2: And you said it because you believed it, right? [00:21:10] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:21:21] Speaker 2: These two entries that we have here, these journal entries. Exhibit number 456. You start them out by dating them at the upper left-hand corner of each, of that one, which is exhibit 456 and 458. You also date it on the upper left-hand corner, or the left-hand corner. Do you see that? [00:21:47] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:21:48] Speaker 2: And you've already told us that there are no dates in between the Sunday 1208 and Thursday 12408, correct? Correct. And you looked at the journal, right? Yes. There are no entries between those two dates, right? [00:22:04] Speaker 3: That's right. [00:22:05] Speaker 2: And it's fair to say that September 22nd of 2008 falls between this gap here, correct? [00:22:12] Speaker 3: Correct. [00:22:13] Speaker 2: And nowhere do you mention either in this January 24th of '08 or January 20th of '08 document, you don't mention anything about this physical encounter with Mr. Alexander that you told us happened on January 22nd of 2008, do you? No, I would have never. I'm not asking you if you would ever. Do you mention it there? I said no. And with regard to not mentioning it there, nothing stopped you from mentioning it, right? [00:22:44] Speaker 3: Yes, something did stop me. [00:22:46] Speaker 2: So you're saying that somebody held your hand and stopped you from writing that? [00:22:51] Speaker 3: I'm not saying that. [00:22:52] Speaker 2: Are you saying that somebody came into your house and stole your journals and took whatever was the journal there, so you couldn't write in it? [00:23:04] Speaker 3: I'm not saying that. [00:23:05] Speaker 2: You had the ability to write in it, right? Yes. You had the free will to write in it, didn't you? Yes. And there is nothing there, correct? [00:23:14] Speaker 3: Referencing that incident? Pardon? Do you mean referencing that incident? I can't hear what you're saying. Do you mean referencing that incident, there's nothing there regarding that? [00:23:22] Speaker 2: Right, there's nothing referencing that incident between those two dates, is there? There is not. The reason it's not there is because it didn't happen, right? [00:23:31] Speaker 3: That's not right. [00:23:35] Speaker 2: You do say, in exhibit number 456, I haven't written because there has been nothing noteworthy to report, right? [00:23:46] Speaker 3: That's right. [00:23:47] Speaker 2: So to you, getting this injury to the left ring finger, that's no big deal then, right? [00:23:53] Speaker 3: That's not what it says. Is that what you're saying? [00:23:55] Speaker 2: Pardon? That's not what it says. I'm not asking you what it says, I'm asking you what you think. It's no big deal to you then, right? That's not right. Well, you came in and you told us about it, right? But it's not written in your journal, right? No. You didn't call the police, right? [00:24:12] Speaker 3: No. [00:24:13] Speaker 2: You didn't get any medical care for it, right? [00:24:15] Speaker 3: Not professional medical care. [00:24:16] Speaker 2: Ma'am, did you go to a doctor to get it looked at? [00:24:21] Speaker 3: No. [00:24:22] Speaker 2: Did you go to a hospital to get it looked at? [00:24:24] Speaker 3: No. [00:24:25] Speaker 2: Did you go to a friend's house or an acquaintance to tell them about it? Definitely not. And with regard to the conversation that you had with Detective Flores back on July 16th of 2008, you didn't tell him anything about that, did you? [00:24:39] Speaker 3: No, definitely not. [00:24:40] Speaker 2: In fact, you gave him a different story, didn't you? Yes. You told him something about these two people and how you got that injury to that finger, right? Yes. So you're saying that what you told the detective there was a lie? Yes. So you, in your view, when do you decide to tell the truth? When you're in this court and no place else? Is that what I'm hearing from you? No. Just because you're in this court doesn't mean you have to tell the truth. I mean, that's what you're telling us, right? That's not what I'm telling anyone. Ma'am, nothing has stopped you from telling this story ever, correct? [00:25:22] Speaker 3: That's not correct. [00:25:23] Speaker 2: You have free will, don't you? Yes, I do. Nothing the detective did stopped you from telling him, right? Flores, no. Nothing that, nothing stopped, you had a car back then, didn't you? When? When this supposedly happened, January 22nd of '08? Yes. You could have driven yourself to a hospital, right? Yes. You could have, do you remember telling us about an incident that occurred in August of 2007 where you caught Mr. Alexander kissing some other girl, right? Yes. And you told us that, well, with regard to that incident, I called my father, right? Yes. And you told him some things about what you had seen and what had happened the day before, right? Yes. Nothing would have stopped you from calling your father to tell him that, right? [00:26:17] Speaker 3: Well, sorry, I'm kind of hyper-literal sometimes. Yes or no? [00:26:25] Speaker 2: Nothing did that day. Yes or no? Would anything have stopped you from calling your father? I don't know. [00:26:31] Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't know. Maybe, but... [00:26:35] Speaker 2: Well, ma'am, you didn't have any problem calling him in August of 2007 and complaining, did you? [00:26:43] Speaker 3: I did have a problem with it. He had to convince me to tell him. [00:26:45] Speaker 2: Well, you called him and you told him, right? [00:26:47] Speaker 3: Eventually, yes, I did. [00:26:49] Speaker 2: You called him and you told him, right? Yes. You could have called him and said, hey, I got this problem with my finger. You had a telephone, right? [00:26:59] Speaker 3: I didn't have a problem with my finger then. [00:27:02] Speaker 2: Well, I thought that you told us when you testified that on January 22nd of 2008 was when you had this finger injured by Mr. Alexander. Do you remember telling us that? [00:27:14] Speaker 3: Yes. January, yes. [00:27:16] Speaker 2: And so on January 22nd of 2008 or any time thereafter, you had a telephone, right? Yes. You could have called your father and could have told him, right? [00:27:25] Speaker 3: Could have, yes. But you didn't. [00:27:27] Speaker 2: I wouldn't have. [00:27:28] Speaker 3: No, I did not. [00:27:30] Speaker 2: And no one knew about this injury or this supposed or claimed injury to the little finger until after you killed Mr. Alexander, right? That's right. Ma'am, that was a significant day. January 22nd of 2008, correct? [00:27:51] Speaker ?: Yes. [00:27:51] Speaker 2: It was significant for a number of reasons, including the fact that you claimed that on January 21 of 2008, you caught Mr. Alexander masturbating to some images of boys, correct? I only saw one image. Ma'am, didn't you say that there were images, there were more than one? [00:28:16] Speaker 3: There were more than one image. I only caught a clip. So was there more than one image? I'm sorry. [00:28:22] Speaker 2: Was there more than one image, ma'am? Yes. [00:28:24] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:28:25] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:28:25] Speaker 2: But you only saw one, right? One clearly, yes. [00:28:28] Speaker 3: Is that yes? That's yes. [00:28:30] Speaker 2: And that was the day before this supposed thing happened on January, or where he had this violent issue with you on January 22nd of 2008, right? That's right. And if we go again to this entry here at 456, I haven't written because there has been nothing noteworthy to report. That's what you wrote, correct? Correct. The way you explain it to us here, this claim issue involving Mr. Alexander, that's pretty noteworthy, isn't it? [00:29:09] Speaker 3: Not for my journal, but yes, in reality, I guess it is very noteworthy. [00:29:18] Speaker 2: It's noteworthy to you, isn't it? [00:29:20] Speaker 3: I already answered your question. And the answer is yes or no? [00:29:22] Speaker 2: Yes. And it's so noteworthy to you that you waited until after you killed Mr. Alexander to tell anybody about it, right? [00:29:37] Speaker 3: I waited years. [00:29:38] Speaker 2: The answer is, did you wait until after this prosecution started, after you were charged, to tell anybody about it, correct? I waited years. And ma'am, one of the things that the way you made it sound was that he had a problem, right? [00:29:50] Speaker 3: He did have a problem. That's what you claim, right? [00:29:52] Speaker 2: That's the reality. That's what you claim, correct? Okay, yes. When back then there was this problem, did you call, for example, the way you made it sound is he had this huge problem, did you call, for example, Child Protective Service? [00:30:05] Speaker 3: No. [00:30:06] Speaker 2: I mean, you made it sound that there was such a big problem that he even went and spent the night somewhere at a friend's house and they had a child and that concerned you. Do you remember telling us that on direct examination? Yes. And yet you didn't go to that person and tell them, hey, he's got this issue, did you? No. [00:30:19] Speaker 3: You didn't go to the police department and tell them anything, right? [00:30:20] Speaker 2: No. made it sound that there was such a big problem that he even went and spent the night somewhere at a friend's house and they had a child and that concerned you. Do you remember telling us that on direct examination? Yes. And yet you didn't go to that person and tell him, hey, he's got this issue, did you? No. You didn't go to the police department and tell him anything, right? No. You chose to keep that allegation until about two years ago? Is that right? I think it's almost three years ago at this point. No. I think it was almost three and a half, four years ago at this point. Pick a year. What year did you disclose? 2009 was when I first told somebody. And you were arrested back in July of 2008, right? Yes. And when this detective interviewed you, you didn't tell him anything about it, did you? Definitely not. And you could have, though, right? In theory, yes, I could have. Ma'am, one of the things that happened with regard to this particular issue is that there was a hearing that was scheduled involving this, well, what time did this allegation happen? When do you claim that, we know the date, what time do you claim that you saw this masturbatory activity? [00:31:46] Speaker 3: It would have been in the afternoon after my morning shift. [00:31:50] Speaker 2: And what time would that have been, then? [00:31:52] Speaker 3: I don't know the exact time, but it was afternoon before, well before it was dark. It was still light out. [00:31:58] Speaker 2: Okay. Can you be more specific? Was it noon? [00:32:01] Speaker 3: It was afternoon. [00:32:03] Speaker 2: All right. Was it two o'clock? [00:32:10] Speaker 1: Restate the question. [00:32:11] Speaker 2: If it was so noteworthy, why can't you remember the time? [00:32:17] Speaker 3: It was kind of traumatic. [00:32:20] Speaker 2: So, what, just because, weren't your senses heightened, heightened at that time, that you saw this? Didn't you get angry or upset? [00:32:32] Speaker 4: Objection. I have a question. [00:32:34] Speaker 2: Were you angry? [00:32:37] Speaker 3: I was sick to my stomach. [00:32:39] Speaker 2: Ma'am, were you angry? [00:32:40] Speaker 3: I was not angry. [00:32:42] Speaker 2: Were you angry? [00:32:43] Speaker 3: I became angry later, but not in that moment. [00:32:44] Speaker 2: Were you angry at that time, ma'am? [00:32:47] Speaker 3: I said not in that moment. [00:32:48] Speaker 2: So the answer is no, right? [00:32:50] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:32:50] Speaker 2: Were you upset at that time? [00:32:52] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:32:53] Speaker 2: So if you're upset, aren't you kind of, your senses heightened at that time, to know the time? [00:33:02] Speaker 4: Objection, she said, answer the question. [00:33:04] Speaker 2: No. [00:33:05] Speaker 3: Can you repeat that? [00:33:06] Speaker 2: Weren't your senses heightened because of this anger, to at least know the time, so somebody could check it out? [00:33:13] Speaker 3: Well, you said because of anger, but I wasn't angry at that moment. [00:33:17] Speaker 2: Well, then, you see this, you're not angry and you're not upset, right? [00:33:23] Speaker 3: I am upset. [00:33:23] Speaker 2: Oh, you are upset. If you're upset, don't you think that that would have heightened your senses over what you just saw? [00:33:32] Speaker 3: My mind doesn't work like that. [00:33:34] Speaker 2: So the answer is no, then, right? [00:33:38] Speaker 4: Yes, you can ask an answer. [00:33:41] Speaker 3: It kind of moved in slow motion, so if that's heightened. [00:33:47] Speaker 2: Is it yes or no, ma'am? [00:33:50] Speaker 3: It's kind of a matter of opinion. I don't know. [00:33:52] Speaker 2: And I'm asking for your opinion. She can't ask an answer. [00:33:56] Speaker 4: She can't speculate. [00:33:59] Speaker 3: Overruled. Whether it's heightened, my perception of things, is that your question? Right. [00:34:11] Speaker 2: At that time when you're viewing this, the way you describe it is bad act. [00:34:21] Speaker 3: Well, it's, I'm not sure. I mean, it's something that I'm never going to forget, but I wish I could. [00:34:29] Speaker 2: You're never going to forget it, is what you just said, right? [00:34:31] Speaker 3: That's right. [00:34:32] Speaker 2: But you have forgotten the time. [00:34:34] Speaker 3: I know it was the afternoon. [00:34:36] Speaker 2: Ma'am, I'm asking you for the time. I'm asking you for the time. I'm asking you for the time. I'm asking you for the time. I'm asking you for the time. I'm asking you for the time. I'm asking you for the time. [00:34:41] Speaker 1: I'm asking you for the time. [00:34:42] Speaker ?: I'm asking you for the time. [00:34:42] Speaker 2: I'm asking you for the time. I'm asking you for the time. I'm asking you for the time. I'm asking you for the time. I'm asking you for the time. I'm asking you for the time. And I'm asking you for the time. And I'm asking you, isn't it true that you forgot the time? [00:34:51] Speaker 4: Objection again in this very first testimony. She says she never knew the time. [00:34:57] Speaker 1: Let's stay in the rephrase. [00:34:59] Speaker 2: You said that you had just been let or out from Mimi's Cafe, right? [00:35:06] Speaker 3: For a little while. [00:35:07] Speaker 2: Pardon? [00:35:07] Speaker 3: For a little while. I was off work for a little while. [00:35:11] Speaker 2: You worked at Mimi's Cafe, right? [00:35:13] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:35:14] Speaker 2: You had been working that day, right? [00:35:16] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:35:16] Speaker 2: Your shift was over, right? [00:35:17] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:35:18] Speaker 2: What time did your shift start? [00:35:21] Speaker 3: It varied. [00:35:22] Speaker 2: That day. What time did your shift start? [00:35:26] Speaker 3: In the morning. [00:35:28] Speaker 2: What time? [00:35:29] Speaker 3: Sometime in the morning. I don't know the exact time. [00:35:32] Speaker 2: You don't know the exact time, yet you knew that you had to be there on that day? Yes. What time does Mimi's open? [00:35:42] Speaker 3: I've never opened Mimi's, so I'm not sure, but they open early. [00:35:45] Speaker 2: So you don't know the time that it opens. You don't know the time that you went to work, right? Not the exact time. Just the morning is what you can give us, right? Yes, early morning. So if you went at 10 o'clock, 10 to 12 would only be two hours, right? [00:36:03] Speaker 3: That's right. [00:36:05] Speaker 2: Was it an eight-hour shift? [00:36:07] Speaker 3: Was it an eight-hour shift, ma'am? No, there aren't eight-hour shifts. [00:36:10] Speaker 2: So on that day, it was not an eight-hour shift, right? That's right. How many hours was your shift? It depended on the flow of business. I understand that it may depend on that. How many hours did you work on January 21 of 2008 on this day that this horrible thing you claim happened? [00:36:31] Speaker 3: I would only be able to tell you a range. [00:36:36] Speaker 2: How many hours now? Give me a range. What you're telling me is you don't know. [00:36:42] Speaker 3: I know the range, but not the exact hours. [00:36:45] Speaker 2: So you're telling me you don't know the exact hours, right? Yes. And anything else that you would give me would be a guess, right? Yes. And ma'am, do you have, I mean, you had a lot of memory for a lot of events involving sexual instances with Mr. Alexander. Yet, you seem to be having problems with your memory here today. And you also alluded to a little bit that you have problems with your memory. Is this a long-standing thing that you've had problems with your memory? Or is this just something that happened recently? Your problems with your memory, is it a recent vintage? [00:37:23] Speaker 3: Define recent. [00:37:25] Speaker 2: I don't know. Since you started testifying. [00:37:28] Speaker 3: No, it goes back further than that. [00:37:30] Speaker 2: How long does it, far back does it go? I don't even know if I'd call it a problem. Well, just tell me how far back it goes. You said you were going to tell me, so tell me, please. [00:37:45] Speaker 3: How far back what goes? [00:37:47] Speaker 2: We're talking about your memory problem, right? [00:37:49] Speaker 3: I don't know that I'd really call it a problem. [00:37:51] Speaker 2: Okay. [00:37:52] Speaker 3: I just have, I don't remember every single thing that's ever happened to me in my whole life. [00:37:55] Speaker 2: Ma'am, your memory issues. We're talking about those, right? [00:38:01] Speaker 3: I wouldn't even call them issues, but okay, my memory. [00:38:04] Speaker 2: Well, you don't want to call them problems, right? [00:38:08] Speaker 3: No, I don't want to call them problems. [00:38:09] Speaker 2: You don't want to call them issues, right? I don't know. [00:38:16] Speaker 3: I really don't know. [00:38:16] Speaker 2: You don't want to call them issues. You just told me that, right? I didn't say I don't want to. All right, so you're, can we call them issues then? Okay. With regard to these memory issues that you claim to have, when did you start having them? [00:38:31] Speaker ?: It depends on the type of memory issue. [00:38:41] Speaker 3: It depends on the type of memory issue. [00:38:47] Speaker 2: If it benefits you, you have a memory issue. Objection, argumentative, Your Honor. Or if it hurts you, you have a memory issue. Objection, Your Honor. [00:38:56] Speaker 3: Stained. [00:38:57] Speaker 2: Well? [00:38:58] Speaker 3: When it hurts, sometimes I hurt. [00:39:00] Speaker 2: Ma'am, there's no question right now. You say that you have memory problems, but it depends on the circumstance, right? [00:39:09] Speaker 3: That's right. [00:39:11] Speaker 2: And give me the factors. I don't want to know about a specific circumstance. What factors influence your having a memory problem? [00:39:20] Speaker 3: Usually when men like you are screaming at me or grilling me or someone like Travis doing the same. [00:39:25] Speaker 2: So that affects your memory problems, right? It does. [00:39:27] Speaker 3: It makes my brain scramble. [00:39:29] Speaker 2: So you're saying that it's the core, basically what you're saying is Mr. Martinez's fault that you can't remember things that are going on. [00:39:37] Speaker 3: It's not your fault. [00:39:38] Speaker 2: I'm not saying that. You're saying that, isn't it? [00:39:40] Speaker 3: No, I'm not saying that. [00:39:42] Speaker 2: Is there something about a certain decibel of the voice that creates problems? [00:39:49] Speaker 3: Decibel tone content, sort of a combination of those factors. [00:39:55] Speaker 4: We reproach. [00:40:04] Speaker 1: You may. [00:40:25] Speaker ?: Thank you. [00:40:55] Speaker 2: What time, Mayor, did you get off of work for Mimis? [00:41:07] Speaker 3: In the afternoon? Well, hold on. [00:41:09] Speaker 2: Let me finish the question. What time did you get off of Mimis on January 21 of 2008? [00:41:17] Speaker 4: She actually asked an answer. She's already said completely she doesn't know the time. Oh. [00:41:25] Speaker 3: A time in the afternoon. [00:41:27] Speaker 2: Can you be more specific about the time? Why not? [00:41:32] Speaker 3: Because I don't think I was looking at my watch on my phone or any other clock. [00:41:37] Speaker 2: Where did you go after you left Mimis? [00:41:44] Speaker 3: I went to Travis's house. [00:41:47] Speaker 2: You went directly to Mr. Alexander's house, right? [00:41:49] Speaker 3: That's right. [00:41:50] Speaker 2: And what time did you get over to his house? [00:41:53] Speaker 3: I'm sorry? [00:41:55] Speaker 2: Couldn't hear me? [00:41:56] Speaker 3: I couldn't hear you. [00:41:58] Speaker 2: What time did you get over to his house? [00:42:09] Speaker 3: About 20 minutes after I left Mimis. [00:42:12] Speaker 2: And when you got there, Mayor, did you walk in? [00:42:18] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:42:19] Speaker 2: Front door? [00:42:20] Speaker 3: Yes. Was it open? Yes. [00:42:22] Speaker 2: Was it unlocked? [00:42:23] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:42:24] Speaker 2: And you said you walked in and you went straight up the stairwell, right? [00:42:31] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:42:32] Speaker 2: And you didn't say a word going up the stairwell, did you? [00:42:36] Speaker 3: I'm sorry? [00:42:36] Speaker 2: You didn't say a word going up the stairway, did you? [00:42:42] Speaker 3: Um, I don't remember. [00:42:45] Speaker 2: Didn't call out his name, right? [00:42:49] Speaker 3: I might have, yes. [00:42:52] Speaker 2: And ma'am, in January 21 of 2008, you and he were broken up, weren't you? Yes. So it wasn't like you were boyfriend and girlfriend that you went over every day, right? [00:43:06] Speaker 3: It was, we were not boyfriend and girlfriend, but I went over almost every day. [00:43:09] Speaker 2: Pardon? [00:43:10] Speaker 3: We were not boyfriend, girlfriend, but I did go over almost every day. [00:43:14] Speaker 2: You're mumbling, I didn't hear you. [00:43:15] Speaker 3: We were not boyfriend, girlfriend, but I did go to his house almost every day. [00:43:20] Speaker 2: And on this particular day, what were you there to do? [00:43:24] Speaker 3: He needed help putting boxes up in his attic. [00:43:27] Speaker 2: And had you talked to him about this previously? [00:43:30] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:43:30] Speaker 2: Was it via text message or was it via some other method? [00:43:35] Speaker 3: I don't remember. It was discussed. [00:43:38] Speaker 2: Was it via telephone? Probably. Well, ma'am, how could you discuss it by telephone if you were working at Mamie's? [00:43:47] Speaker 3: It was discussed previous to my shift. [00:43:50] Speaker 2: So what time did you discuss it then? [00:43:53] Speaker 3: It was, it had to do with, well, it wasn't that day. It was weeks ahead of time. It was about the Christmas things that were in his attic. [00:44:06] Speaker 2: So now it wasn't that day that you discussed it, right? Once I got there, we were discussing it. I want to know if that day that you claimed this happened, if there was a telephone call in the morning. [00:44:27] Speaker 3: I don't remember that part. [00:44:29] Speaker 2: And if, back then, what was your number? We've already heard it, but... [00:44:36] Speaker 3: 831-402-1901. [00:44:39] Speaker 2: And that would have been the number that you called him on, right? That you used to call him. That would have been the telephone that you would have used to call him, right? Usually, yes. That was your telephone, right? [00:44:52] Speaker 3: Yes, that was my telephone. [00:44:54] Speaker 2: And you say, well, normally I would use that to call him. Pray tell, what other circumstances would there be that you wouldn't use your cell phone to call him? [00:45:04] Speaker 3: Landlines. [00:45:05] Speaker 2: Pardon? [00:45:06] Speaker 3: Landlines. [00:45:06] Speaker 2: You had a landline also at your home, right? [00:45:09] Speaker 3: There were landlines in the homes where I lived. [00:45:11] Speaker 2: Pardon? [00:45:11] Speaker 3: There were landlines in the homes where I lived. [00:45:13] Speaker 2: I'm not asking about the homes where you lived. I'm asking about the homes on January 20th, your home on January 21th of 2008. There was not a landline in that home. There was not one, was there? No, there was not. So you would have had to use your cell phone to call him, right? [00:45:29] Speaker 3: I probably would have used my cell phone if I called him that day, yes. [00:45:33] Speaker 2: And now you're saying you're not sure if you called him that morning then, right? [00:45:37] Speaker 3: Um, I don't think I did because he didn't get up early. [00:45:43] Speaker 2: Ma'am, so you're saying you didn't call him that morning, right? [00:45:47] Speaker 3: I don't recall if I did or not. [00:45:50] Speaker 2: Well then, I thought you said that there was some agreement or arrangement for you to go over there that day. [00:45:57] Speaker 3: There was. [00:45:58] Speaker 2: All right. What was the arrangement? [00:46:00] Speaker 3: The arrangement was after Christmas when he had packed up all of his things to put him in the attic. [00:46:07] Speaker 2: No, no, I'm not asking about that. I'm asking about the arrangement about the time when you were going to go over. I don't really care about what the activity was. What was the arrangement about when you were going to come over or how that was going to work? Just whenever it made sense. So whenever it made sense, you were going to go over that day? [00:46:24] Speaker 3: Yes, that day was a good day for us. [00:46:27] Speaker 2: And you don't know if you talked to him in the morning about telling him that it was that day that you were going to be over. I don't remember. And if you didn't talk to him, you're coming over would have been a surprise then after working at Mimi's, right? [00:46:41] Speaker 3: No, he was expecting me the first time. [00:46:45] Speaker 2: How would he be able to expect you the first time if you didn't call him in the morning to let him know you were going to be over that day? Because it was already discussed. When was it discussed? Tell me. [00:46:58] Speaker 3: It was discussed multiple times in the weeks following Christmas. [00:47:04] Speaker 2: I understand that it was discussed multiple times in the weeks following Christmas. But in those multiple times following Christmas, did you pick a date? January 21. Let's just pick December 26. You said to him, on January 21 of 2008, I'm going to come over and help you with the Christmas decorations. Is that how it worked? [00:47:22] Speaker 3: No. [00:47:23] Speaker 2: No, it didn't, did it? You needed, if you had an arrangement, there would have been an agreement. Wouldn't there have been? We weren't that formal. Well, so you, but you just told me that you talked about it though, right? It was discussed multiple times, yes. Right. And so all those multiple times that you discussed it, you agreed that it was going to be January 21, 2008 after you got off work for Mimi's. Is that the agreement or is that the discussion? [00:47:52] Speaker 3: I don't think it was that specific at all. [00:47:55] Speaker 2: So what was the discussion then? Just whenever we got together to do it. So then he wasn't expecting you like you said he was when you came over that day? He was hoping I would come over to help him with those things. Ma'am, you keep saying he was hoping. How do you know he was hoping if he didn't even know you were coming over? Based on our discussions. So in your discussions, you told him, I want you to hope that I come over on the 21st? I didn't tell him that. Of course you didn't. The point is you really didn't, you can't tell us anything about the circumstances of that day, can you? That's not true. Well, you can't tell us about the time, right? [00:48:36] Speaker 3: Not a precise hour and minute. [00:48:39] Speaker 2: You can't tell us what you worked at Mimi's, right? What hours, right? [00:48:45] Speaker 3: Not the precise hours. [00:48:46] Speaker 2: You can't tell us what time you got over to his house, right? [00:48:50] Speaker 3: Not the precise minute. [00:48:52] Speaker 2: You can't tell us if there was even a telephone call that morning, right? I don't remember if there were calls that morning. You can't tell us anything. But you can't tell us that you walked in and then there was this issue and you went in to help him with the Christmas decorations, right? Yes. And after you helped him with the Christmas decorations, you left, right? Yes. Drove away, right? Yes. Came back, right? Yes. And according to you, that's when you saw Mr. Alexander engaged in this masturbatory activity, right? Yes. And according to you, there were multiple photographs, but you saw one of them in particular, correct? [00:49:33] Speaker ?: Yes. [00:49:34] Speaker 2: And you then left, right? [00:49:38] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:49:39] Speaker 2: And you left in your car, right? Yes. And you went home and started driving around, right? [00:49:46] Speaker 3: I went home, threw up, cried, then drove around. [00:49:49] Speaker 2: Sure. You did all these kinds of things that afternoon, right? Yes. In your car, right? I didn't throw up in my car. What's that? I didn't throw up in my car. No, you drove off in your car, correct? [00:50:01] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:50:02] Speaker 2: Well, isn't that problematic since you were driving Mr. Alexander's car? [00:50:08] Speaker 3: I wasn't driving his car yet. We were supposed to swap cars. [00:50:13] Speaker 2: Well, he didn't have a car that day, right? [00:50:17] Speaker 3: We were switching routes that day. [00:50:18] Speaker 2: Ma'am, did he have a... My question is... [00:50:20] Speaker 3: He did have a car. [00:50:21] Speaker 2: Isn't it true he did not have a car that day? [00:50:23] Speaker 3: No, he had a car. [00:50:24] Speaker 2: Well, ma'am, let's take a look at some of the text messages, okay? Okay. I'm going to give you two sets. One with his responses and one without, all right? Okay. Take a look at exhibit 461. Take a look at exhibit 461. Those are text messages between your telephone number and Mr. Alexander, correct? [00:51:30] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:51:31] Speaker 2: And the incoming means that that's your message coming in to him, correct? [00:51:41] Speaker 3: Wait, say that again. I'm sorry. I was reading. [00:51:43] Speaker 2: Do you remember previously testifying that when incoming was on these text messages that that meant that that was you calling or that was you leaving the message? That was me sending the message. Right. And the outgoing is him sending it out, right? Yes. You also talked a little bit about the timing on there, right? The times that are designated? [00:52:01] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:52:02] Speaker 2: You indicated that, well, it was seven hours off, right? [00:52:05] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:52:06] Speaker 2: That copy that I've given you has taken the time to write down the actual times minus seven hours, right? Yes. Go ahead and review it to make sure that the times that are on there are correct. [00:52:15] Speaker 3: Yes, those are correct, I believe. [00:52:43] Speaker 2: Well, we don't want you to believe. Take your time, subtract seven from there, and see if that's correct. Because it's important here, we don't want you to believe. [00:52:54] Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure they're correct. [00:52:55] Speaker 2: When you say pretty sure, it means you're not sure to me. [00:52:58] Speaker 3: No, I said I'm pretty sure. [00:53:00] Speaker 2: And it does not include his responses on there, or his outgoing messages, does it? [00:53:05] Speaker 3: Yeah, it looks like it's blocked out. [00:53:08] Speaker 2: Right. Take a look at Exhibit 462. Same thing, right? Same thing, right? Except that this one includes his responses on there, right? [00:53:24] Speaker 3: Yes. Okay. [00:53:25] Speaker 2: The times are also written in there, correct? [00:53:29] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:53:30] Speaker 2: And to the best of your knowledge, those are the accurate times that are written in there. Those are the accurate times that that message was either outgoing or incoming, right? [00:53:41] Speaker 3: That is right. [00:53:44] Speaker 2: Okay. Hang on, let me check. [00:53:46] Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, they look like they match. [00:53:49] Speaker 2: Okay. I may have those back. Thank you. [00:54:21] Speaker ?: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. [00:55:58] Speaker 4: Injection 461, Your Honor. [00:56:01] Speaker 1: 461 is admitted. [00:56:02] Speaker 2: Let's take a look at exhibit 461. And let's talk about times first. Do you see that, although it says 12208 at 003850, someone has written it to 121 538 PM because of the seven-hour time difference that you talked about previously on direct examination, right? [00:56:45] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:56:45] Speaker 2: And we talked about, it's got your name on there, right? [00:56:49] Speaker 3: That's right. [00:56:49] Speaker 2: It's got your telephone number on there, right? [00:56:51] Speaker 3: Right. [00:56:53] Speaker 2: And then it has the time of January 21st at 538 PM, right? [00:56:59] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:57:00] Speaker 2: And then it says, you say, I can't remember, am I coming in for you on Wednesday at 1030? Isn't that what it says? Yes. Then, you see the next one at 641 PM, right? You claim that you have already left Mimi's Cafe in the early afternoon, right? [00:57:26] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:57:27] Speaker 2: And so... [00:57:28] Speaker 3: No, I didn't say early. I said sometime in the afternoon. [00:57:32] Speaker 2: But you can't tell us the time, right? That's right. But at 641 PM, you are talking about trading cars before FHE, right? [00:57:42] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:57:44] Speaker 2: FHE stands for Family Home Evening, right? That's right. And Family Home Evening starts at 7 o'clock in the evening, doesn't it? I don't remember. Well, you were practicing Mormon, weren't you? [00:57:55] Speaker 3: Yes, sort of. [00:57:56] Speaker 2: And you attended Family Home Evenings. You were telling us about that, right? [00:58:01] Speaker 3: Yes, I did. [00:58:02] Speaker 2: And you attended them more than once, right? Yes, I did. And of all of those times that you attended, didn't they start at 7 o'clock? [00:58:14] Speaker 3: I don't remember. They were in the evening, but I don't remember the time. [00:58:19] Speaker 2: Would they have started at 10 o'clock at night? [00:58:23] Speaker 3: No, they were not too late. [00:58:25] Speaker 2: How long? Isn't it true that they lasted about an hour, Family Home Evenings? [00:58:29] Speaker 3: Yes, roughly an hour. [00:58:31] Speaker 2: And then the people that were there, the singles that were there, would get together and get involved in some sort of social activity, right? [00:58:38] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:58:39] Speaker 2: Bowling, that sort of thing, right? [00:58:41] Speaker 3: My word never went bowling. [00:58:43] Speaker 2: Movies, something like that. [00:58:44] Speaker 3: My word never went to movies. [00:58:45] Speaker 2: Going out to dinner. [00:58:47] Speaker 3: It was usually at the church. [00:58:50] Speaker 2: But it could also be at people's houses, right? [00:58:52] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:58:54] Speaker 2: And then at 7, 19 p.m., you're sending him a text, never mind, one of the stores I need to go to closes at 8 p.m., I'll just go tomorrow, right? That's right. That's evening now, right? [00:59:07] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:59:08] Speaker 2: So, you said that this incident involving the masturbatory conduct occurred in the afternoon, right? It did. So, it would have happened before 7, 19 p.m., right? [00:59:23] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:59:23] Speaker 2: And you were already gone. You were wherever, right? [00:59:26] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:59:27] Speaker 2: And you told us, though, that no, he kept calling you and kept calling you, and then you said you called him back, right? Yes, I did. And then you went out and got him something from, I think it was Starbucks or something, and you brought him something over. Do you remember saying that? [00:59:46] Speaker 3: Not that day. [00:59:48] Speaker 2: Well, then you went over to his house, though, right? [00:59:50] Speaker 3: I did. [00:59:51] Speaker 2: And you went over and then you had sex with him, right? [00:59:55] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:59:55] Speaker 2: What time did you go over to his house? [00:59:57] Speaker 3: It was in the evening. What time? I don't know the time. [01:00:00] Speaker 2: Well, if he's going to family home evening, he's not going to be around. If it starts, assume it starts at 7, he's not going to be around at 7 o'clock, is he? [01:00:13] Speaker 1: Restate your question. [01:00:14] Speaker 2: If, just for hypothetically speaking, man, if family home evening starts at 7 o'clock, he's not going to be home at 7 p.m., is he? [01:00:27] Speaker 4: Objection assumes that Anthony was there. [01:00:30] Speaker 3: If he went, then he wouldn't be. [01:00:32] Speaker 2: I'm not asking if he went. If it starts at 7 o'clock in the evening, he would not have been home then, right? [01:00:39] Speaker 4: Objection assumes that he lied if he was there. He went to F-A-G. [01:00:48] Speaker 3: It wouldn't necessarily mean that, because it doesn't mean that he went. But that night he... [01:00:55] Speaker 2: I'm saying hypothetically. That means assume that he went to family home evening. And if it started at 7, he wouldn't have been at his house, right? That's right. And if he has become involved in this masturbatory conduct, why are you worried about trading cars with him? [01:01:18] Speaker 3: I think he wanted to trade the car. [01:01:20] Speaker 2: Ma'am, this is not him writing that out there, is it? [01:01:26] Speaker 3: I wanted to do it before F-A-G. He wanted to trade the car. [01:01:28] Speaker 2: Well, why don't we take a look at his, which is 462. This is the one that includes his responses, right? Yes. Take a look at it and see who's concerned about trading cars. Take a look at it and see who's concerned about trading cars. That indicates the back and forth involving the car, doesn't it? [01:02:08] Speaker 3: Yes, it does. [01:02:11] Speaker 2: I move to the admission of exhibit number 462. [01:02:35] Speaker 4: No objection. [01:02:37] Speaker 1: 462 is admitted. [01:02:39] Speaker 2: Ma'am, do you know who Alice LaMondin is? [01:02:42] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:02:43] Speaker 2: She's somebody that is assisting you in this case, isn't it? [01:02:46] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:02:47] Speaker 2: Isn't it true that you told her that the masturbatory conduct involving Mr. Alexander took place while he was on the computer? No, I never said that. Isn't it true that you've heard a statement from her indicating that you told her that the masturbatory conduct took place while he was on the computer? [01:03:12] Speaker 3: No, I've never heard her say that. [01:03:14] Speaker 2: Ma'am, were you here at a hearing? Objection, Your Honor. Are you ready to approach? [01:03:18] Speaker 1: Okay. [01:03:26] Speaker ?: Well, I'll see you next time. Well, I'll see you next time. I'll see you next time. I'll see you next time. I'll see you next time. I'll see you next time. I'll see you next time. I'll see you next time. I'll see you next time. I'll see you next time. I'll see you next time. I'll see you next time. I'll see you next time. I'll see you next time. I'll see you next time. I'll see you next time. I'll see you next time. I'll see you next time. I'll see you next time. I'll see you next time. I'll see you next time. I'll see you next time. I'll see you next time. I'll see you next time. I'll see you next time. Thank you. [01:05:15] Speaker 2: Thank you. Is it true that you heard Ms. LaViolette indicate that you told her that you saw Mr. Alexander masturbating to images on a computer? [01:06:00] Speaker 3: No, I heard you say that in the hearing. [01:06:02] Speaker 2: Well, ma'am, do you remember that I played a snippet with her voice on it? [01:06:08] Speaker 3: Yes, but I couldn't understand it. [01:06:10] Speaker 2: Did you hear that snippet? Yes or no? [01:06:15] Speaker 3: I heard it, but I didn't understand it. [01:06:17] Speaker 2: I'm not asking you if you understood it. Isn't it true that you were here when that snippet was played? [01:06:21] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:06:22] Speaker 2: And that snippet involved whether or not she had ever told the prosecution that you told her that you saw Mr. Alexander masturbating to images on a computer? [01:06:34] Speaker 3: That's right. [01:06:37] Speaker 2: Let me go ahead and continue with the text messages. This is now exhibit 462. And it includes the outgoing, which is Mr. Alexander's text messages, right? [01:07:03] Speaker 3: That's right. [01:07:04] Speaker 2: And we were talking about exchanging cars before going to FHE, family home evening, right? [01:07:11] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:07:12] Speaker 2: And ma'am, you did indicate something about whether or not you called them, or did you say you did or did not call him that morning? [01:07:21] Speaker 3: I said I don't remember. [01:07:23] Speaker 2: So it could be true that you did not call him at all that morning. [01:07:26] Speaker 4: Objection. I don't have a question. [01:07:28] Speaker ?: Distinct. [01:07:30] Speaker 2: So it is true that you do not know if you called him that morning. So, well, let me do this. It could be you did not call him that morning. [01:07:41] Speaker 3: It could be because I don't remember. [01:07:45] Speaker 2: And again, is this issue with your lack of memory because of the questions, the way they're being posed? [01:07:51] Speaker 3: No. [01:07:53] Speaker 2: Does it have to do with the volume of the person asking you the questions? [01:07:57] Speaker 3: No, I think the length of time. [01:07:58] Speaker 2: Is it yes or no? The volume. [01:08:01] Speaker 3: Then that would be no. [01:08:04] Speaker 2: So at 720, you send her or send him a text message. Never mind, one of the stores I need to go closes at eight. I'll just go tomorrow. So that was one minute later. It's the same message that you sent before, correct? [01:08:19] Speaker 3: That's correct. [01:08:20] Speaker 2: And then Mr. Alexander sends you a text message at 7, 24 p.m., right? [01:08:27] Speaker ?: Right. [01:08:30] Speaker 2: And he says, I got a ride from some peeps in the ward now. You can just go get it. Let me know when you made the exchange. Isn't he telling you that he went to the family home evening there? Yes. So he did go to the family home evening, right? I'm assuming. Well, there's nothing else that's indicated here other than family home evening, right? [01:08:52] Speaker 3: That's right. [01:08:54] Speaker 2: And family home evening, from your experience, when you were going, how long does it last? [01:09:01] Speaker 3: Usually about an hour. Depends on the event. Sometimes there are special events that go longer. [01:09:06] Speaker 2: And then there are other events that may come along afterwards, right? [01:09:12] Speaker 3: I don't know. I usually went home after FHE. [01:09:17] Speaker 2: To your knowledge, ma'am, these family home evenings, did they end after the hour? Or were there chances, sometimes, even though you may not have attended, that they would go on longer than that? [01:09:30] Speaker 4: Objection calls for speculation is what happened on January 21st. [01:09:34] Speaker 2: Overall, that was not the question. [01:09:37] Speaker 3: I guess that's always a chance. [01:09:40] Speaker 2: Well, I'm asking from your knowledge when you were going. [01:09:46] Speaker 3: Typically, we all dispersed. It was a Monday night. We didn't hang out too late. [01:09:51] Speaker 2: Okay. Then, at 725, you send him a text message that appears to be in response to that one, right? Because it's one minute later, right? Yes. And you say, I'm almost asleep. We'll see. Right? Right. And what you're talking about is exchanging the car, right? Yes. The big concern here is exchanging the car, right? Yes. It doesn't have anything to do with what you claim you saw, right? [01:10:23] Speaker 3: We're talking about the car hitting this text message. Right. [01:10:27] Speaker 2: It doesn't. And the point here is that you're talking about very pedestrian issues, such as exchanging a car. You're not talking about, Travis, I saw you masturbating or anything like that, right? [01:10:38] Speaker 3: It wasn't a pedestrian issue with Travis. [01:10:41] Speaker 2: Pardon? [01:10:41] Speaker 3: The car was not a pedestrian issue with Travis. [01:10:44] Speaker 2: Well, so you're equating this issue with the car the same as him masturbating to images as kids. Is that what you're saying? [01:10:51] Speaker 3: Not by a long shot. No, that's not what I'm saying. [01:10:55] Speaker 2: Then, he's talking about, you obviously don't need it that bad. I got a ride so you could go get the car. Now you're going to sleep? That's what he tells you, right? Yes. He's made or tried to make arrangements for you to pick up your car, right? [01:11:18] Speaker 3: I don't remember which car I was driving. [01:11:20] Speaker 2: Well, he didn't have a car because he got a ride with somebody else, right? [01:11:26] Speaker 3: That's not why he got a ride. [01:11:28] Speaker 2: Well, when he's riding with somebody else, his car's not with him, right? That's right. And so, he's without a car at family home, even, or wherever it is that he went, right? Yes. You have a car, right? Yes. His car, right? Objection, she's asking an answer. [01:11:46] Speaker 3: I don't remember which car I was driving. [01:11:48] Speaker 2: Well, it wouldn't have been his car because you wouldn't have needed to exchange his car for his car, right? It would have been mine or his. [01:11:56] Speaker 4: Right. [01:11:56] Speaker 2: So, you're driving your car, right? [01:11:58] Speaker 4: Objection. Ask and answer. I don't remember. [01:12:01] Speaker 3: I've already said that I don't remember which car I'm driving. [01:12:14] Speaker 2: There, you indicated previously that after this happened, you went home, and he kept trying to call you over and over, right? [01:12:22] Speaker 3: I had voicemails from him or missed calls. [01:12:29] Speaker 2: It means he kept trying to call you over and over again, right? [01:12:32] Speaker 3: Right. [01:12:32] Speaker 2: Whether you left voicemails or whatever, he kept trying to call you, right? [01:12:36] Speaker 3: Yeah, he did. [01:12:37] Speaker 2: And you didn't respond to those calls, right? [01:12:41] Speaker 3: Not immediately. Did I remember? Well, I was in the visitation center, the visitor center. So, I had my phone volume off. [01:12:49] Speaker 2: You were what? [01:12:49] Speaker 3: I was at the visitor center. [01:12:51] Speaker 2: What visitor center are you talking about? [01:12:52] Speaker 3: The one next to the Mesa temple. [01:12:55] Speaker 2: And is that where you went after this incident happened? [01:12:58] Speaker 3: That's where I ended up after driving. [01:12:59] Speaker 2: Is this where you were almost asleep? [01:13:02] Speaker 3: No, this was after the fact. [01:13:04] Speaker 2: So, now you're back at home, right? Yes. Right? And in between then, and, well, in between what you say you saw and when you were home, that's when you have all these calls, right? [01:13:21] Speaker 3: From the time I ran out of his house, he called. [01:13:24] Speaker 2: From the time you ran out of his house, till what time at night are these calls coming in? [01:13:32] Speaker 3: Till I called him back. [01:13:33] Speaker 2: When? What time? [01:13:35] Speaker 3: As soon as I left the visitor center, I called him. [01:13:37] Speaker 2: Right. So, you're sure that there's a bunch of calls that he made to you, and then they sort of piled up, whether they're voice messages or missed calls, and then you returned his call, right? [01:13:54] Speaker 3: That's how I remember it, yes. [01:13:56] Speaker 2: Okay. Actually, that's not the way it really went on that day. Isn't it true, ma'am, that there were actually five calls that day between you and him, where he called you five times, and you called him back five times? Did you know that? [01:14:14] Speaker 3: That there were many more than five. There may be five from his cell phone. [01:14:19] Speaker 2: I'm asking cell phone to cell phone, and you're saying that at that time, he only had your cell phone, right? I only had my cell phone. Right. At the visitor's. Right. And he left you five calls, or he left you calls, right? Yes. And actually, there were only five calls from him all day long to you on the 21st. Isn't that true? [01:14:40] Speaker 3: That's not true. [01:14:41] Speaker 2: Isn't it true there was only five return calls from you on that day? [01:14:45] Speaker 3: That might be true. [01:14:47] Speaker 2: And in fact, when you say that he was calling you all the time, actually, didn't it go this way that you called him at 3.53 in the evening, or the afternoon, didn't you? [01:14:57] Speaker 3: That sounds accurate. [01:14:59] Speaker 2: And then you called him again at 4.09 in the evening, didn't you? [01:15:06] Speaker 3: That sounds accurate. [01:15:08] Speaker 2: And he returned your call at 4.29, right? [01:15:13] Speaker 3: I believe he did. [01:15:14] Speaker 2: And then you called him back at 4.53, right? [01:15:18] Speaker 3: That sounds accurate. [01:15:21] Speaker 2: Well, I thought you said that there was this issue that you were not returning his call. It looks like you're returning his call, and he's calling you back. [01:15:29] Speaker 3: Well, that's probably a cell phone. [01:15:31] Speaker 2: Well, what difference does it make if it's a cell phone or not? Isn't that a telephone call? [01:15:35] Speaker 3: Yeah, but he has a landline that he called me on frequently. [01:15:38] Speaker 2: Right, but I'm talking about on that day, the calls that were made. What was his landline number, ma'am? [01:15:46] Speaker 3: I don't have it memorized because it was just in my phone as Travis Alexander. [01:15:51] Speaker 2: So you called him at 4.53, isn't it true, p.m., and he returned your call then at 4.54 p.m. Do you remember that? [01:16:03] Speaker 3: I don't recall that specific. [01:16:08] Speaker 2: Isn't it true, he then called you back at 5.11 p.m.? Remember that? [01:16:16] Speaker 3: Not specifically. [01:16:17] Speaker 2: How about him calling you back at 5.20 p.m.? [01:16:20] Speaker 3: I don't remember specifically. [01:16:22] Speaker 2: And how about him calling you back at 5.48 p.m.? [01:16:25] Speaker 3: I just know he called me a lot that day. [01:16:27] Speaker 2: And then you returned his call at 5.53 p.m. Do you remember any of that? [01:16:34] Speaker 3: The time sounds accurate. [01:16:39] Speaker 2: Well, then, if we go then to 4.62, which is the text messages, you have these calls, and then it picks up with text messages. You see that? Yes. The communication does, right? [01:16:52] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:16:53] Speaker 2: So there was never a time when, as you said previously, where you and he were not communicating. You're either communicating by telephone or by text message, aren't you? [01:17:02] Speaker 3: No, there's a gap. [01:17:03] Speaker 2: Well, you said that it was right that you called him at 5.53 p.m., right? You just said that that sounds right. [01:17:11] Speaker 3: It sounds about right. I don't remember the times. [01:17:13] Speaker 2: Right. And then the first message after this call that you said sounds right at 5.53 p.m. is at 6.41, right? [01:17:26] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:17:26] Speaker 2: Less than an hour later, right? [01:17:29] Speaker 3: The text, yes. [01:17:31] Speaker 2: And then there's one at 7.19. Right? Yes. And if we say, hypothetically speaking, that family home evening starts at 7, he's already at family home evening by the time that he sends you this text at 7.24, right? That's right. You then say at 7.29 p.m., I fell asleep and a phone call woke me up, right? [01:18:09] Speaker 3: What date is that? [01:18:13] Speaker 2: The 21st, ma'am. [01:18:14] Speaker 3: That's right. Okay. [01:18:16] Speaker 2: I fell asleep and a phone call woke me up. I thought you said you were at the LDS center off of Dobson and Southern. [01:18:26] Speaker 3: Not by this time. [01:18:29] Speaker 2: Well, I thought you were asleep. [01:18:32] Speaker 3: I went home and crashed. I had been crying and I had a migraine. [01:18:36] Speaker 2: So, when did you go to sleep? Give us a time. [01:18:40] Speaker 3: I don't have the time that I fell asleep. I went to sleep after I left the visitor center. [01:18:45] Speaker 2: Well, when did you have time to sleep if you're calling him back and he's calling you? And then right after that, you begin texting back and forth. When is it that you find the time to sleep? Well, I didn't sleep for a long period of time. [01:18:56] Speaker 3: I just dozed off. [01:19:01] Speaker 2: Well, you do say at 7.25 p.m. that you're almost asleep. We'll see about this car transfer thing, right? [01:19:09] Speaker 3: Right. [01:19:10] Speaker 2: And then you put the Zs on there. That indicates you're going to sleep, right? [01:19:13] Speaker 3: I was very tired, yes. [01:19:15] Speaker 2: And so, you went to sleep. You say you went to sleep, right? [01:19:20] Speaker 3: I was laying there very tired and I think I fell asleep. [01:19:25] Speaker 2: Well, then you say at 7.29 p.m. four minutes later, I fell asleep and a phone call woke me up. That's when I sent you a text. That's what you say, right? [01:19:36] Speaker 3: Yeah. [01:19:40] Speaker 2: Well, when is it that you're sleeping? What's waking you up between those four minutes? What's going on? [01:19:46] Speaker 3: I feel like I'm sleeping right then. I don't know. I fell asleep. He wanted me to get the car. [01:19:57] Speaker 2: But he's a family home evening already. And he doesn't care because he's already a family home evening, isn't he? [01:20:03] Speaker 3: He was a little upset because he got a ride because he thought I was going to go get it. [01:20:07] Speaker 2: But it didn't happen, did it? [01:20:08] Speaker 3: No. [01:20:09] Speaker 2: And the big point going on here is not talking about anything that may have happened. You're not saying you're upset about anything. You're just talking about this car being exchanged, right? We're talking specifically about the car exchange and the text message. And you don't say, I'm upset, we need to talk, or anything like that, do you? [01:20:28] Speaker 3: No. [01:20:29] Speaker 2: You say you have a really bad headache that you can barely move, right? [01:20:34] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:20:35] Speaker 2: And that's at 7.36, right? [01:20:38] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:20:39] Speaker 2: And then there's a gap of approximately two hours or an hour and 45 minutes, which could be with an activity with family home evening, right? Yes. And he says, all right, I'll get it tomorrow then, right? [01:20:55] Speaker 3: He says, for me to get it tomorrow. [01:20:58] Speaker 2: All right, get it tomorrow then, right? Yes. In other words, make whatever exchange of cars that's going to happen, let's just do it tomorrow, right? Yes. Or have you do it tomorrow, right? Right, whichever. Which indicates you aren't going to get together that night, are you? At the moment, yes. Not at the moment. It says, do it tomorrow. Isn't that what it says? When that text was sent, yes. Okay, but then you'd want to talk to him, right? Yes. And that's at 9.16 p.m. You say, can you talk right now? And he says, no, not right now, right? Yes. Presumably, if he went to family home evening, I'm not saying that he did, that's probably what he's doing, if he did go, right? [01:21:48] Speaker 3: If he did go. [01:21:49] Speaker 2: If he did go, right? [01:21:50] Speaker 3: If family home evening is still going on at that hour. [01:21:54] Speaker 2: And then, but previously, ma'am, you told us that he was the one that wanted to talk to you, right? Didn't you tell us that, that he kept calling, calling, calling, until you relented, and then you went over, right? [01:22:05] Speaker 3: He did want to talk to me, yes. Right. [01:22:06] Speaker 2: But it looks here that, like you want to talk to him, doesn't it? [01:22:10] Speaker 3: I do now, yes. [01:22:12] Speaker 2: And then, you're still not together at 11.33, and you sent him a message, how long, right? [01:22:18] Speaker 3: That's right. [01:22:19] Speaker 2: How long is he going to be out, is what you're asking him, aren't you? [01:22:22] Speaker 3: No, how long until he is ready to talk. [01:22:25] Speaker 2: Well, that's part of, given what we've seen about this relationship, isn't that part of your jealousy, because you want to know what's going on with him that night? Ma'am, how long, that's you saying, how long before we can talk, right? Isn't that what it means? Yes. And then, he says to you, and the times aren't there, but he does, and by that I mean they weren't in, it says, did you use my phone this morning without asking, right? Yes. So, if you got together with him, it was after 11.33, after he got done doing whatever he was doing, right? [01:23:10] Speaker 3: What was that question? [01:23:11] Speaker 2: If you got together that evening, it was after he got done with whatever he was doing. [01:23:19] Speaker 3: That's right. [01:23:20] Speaker 2: And so, it doesn't seem like he's in a hurry to talk to you, does it? I don't know. It doesn't seem like he's all this, you know, like this upset that you portrayed him, that he really wanted to talk to you about this issue that you say that you saw him engaged in, right? Did you actually cause a speculation? [01:23:44] Speaker 1: Sustained. [01:23:44] Speaker 2: There are gaps here where he's doing whatever he's doing, and you're doing the asking how long, right? That's right. He then asks you whether or not you used his phone in the morning without asking, right? Yes. And you tell him that you did, right? [01:24:01] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:24:02] Speaker 2: And you ask why, and he says nothing, right? [01:24:04] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:24:05] Speaker 2: There's an issue about the deposit, and in fact, you're asking him if he made the deposit, right? [01:24:12] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:24:13] Speaker 2: And he told you that he did, right? [01:24:15] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:24:16] Speaker 2: Is he giving you money there? [01:24:20] Speaker 3: What's the date? [01:24:21] Speaker 2: Pardon? [01:24:22] Speaker 3: What was the date on that one? [01:24:23] Speaker 2: The 22nd. [01:24:27] Speaker 3: I think, I don't know what we were referring to there. [01:24:30] Speaker 2: Well, you do say, your text message does say, did you make the deposit? [01:24:37] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:24:37] Speaker 2: And he said yes, and then you said what? [01:24:42] Speaker 3: Thank you, I'll make it up to you soon. [01:24:44] Speaker 2: It looks like he lent you money there, doesn't it? [01:24:46] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:24:48] Speaker 2: Any idea how much money he lent you? [01:24:51] Speaker 3: He lent me money in small increments, I don't remember. [01:24:54] Speaker 2: And he would do it if you needed it, right? [01:24:57] Speaker 3: If he could, he would, yes. [01:24:59] Speaker 2: And if you needed it, right? [01:25:01] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:25:02] Speaker 2: Now, the next day, that same day at 3.36 in the afternoon, you say to him, I'm going to need a ride, I'm off at 4 p.m., text me. Still the issue with the car, right? [01:25:15] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:25:15] Speaker 2: Where's your car? [01:25:20] Speaker 3: Probably parked at his house. [01:25:23] Speaker 2: How'd you get to work? [01:25:26] Speaker 3: Sometimes he drove me, and sometimes I carpooled with a co-worker. [01:25:29] Speaker 2: So what happened on this particular day? I don't remember. What time did you get to work? [01:25:33] Speaker 3: I don't remember. I usually worked in the morning, but sometimes I worked evenings also. [01:25:38] Speaker 2: So in this day, you're going to get off at 4 o'clock, right? [01:25:43] Speaker 3: Well, in theory, if business permits. [01:25:46] Speaker 2: But that's what it says there, right? Yes. And this is at 3.36, you want him to pick you up, right? Yes. How long was your shift usually, 4, 6, 8 hours? [01:25:58] Speaker 3: Depending on the flow of business, typically it was 4 to 6 hours. [01:26:02] Speaker 2: All right. And then at 4.04, you send him another text message, and you say, scratch that. They're keeping me here until 5 p.m. Can you pick me up then? The lunch offer from my voicemail still stands. What are you talking about? [01:26:17] Speaker 3: For him to pick me up. [01:26:18] Speaker 2: Pardon? [01:26:18] Speaker 3: For him to pick me up after work. [01:26:20] Speaker 2: No, I'm asking about the lunch offer. I'm not asking about him picking you up. [01:26:24] Speaker 3: I felt really bad for him and everything that happened. So I offered. I was just trying to make him feel better because if I were in his shoes, I'd want to jump off a bridge at this point. [01:26:35] Speaker 2: So what about the lunch offer? What are you talking about? [01:26:38] Speaker 3: That's what it was. I offered to get him lunch. [01:26:41] Speaker 2: Well, it's 4 o'clock in the afternoon, though. Lunch usually is noon, right? [01:26:44] Speaker 3: Well, not for Travis. [01:26:47] Speaker 2: And then he says, sure. I'm almost off. Yay. Are you eating? If so, just sit in the camera, right? [01:26:55] Speaker 3: Right. [01:26:57] Speaker 2: Throughout this whole text message between you and him, there's no discussion about anything that may have happened on the 21st, is there? [01:27:06] Speaker 3: Not in text messages. Definitely not. [01:27:08] Speaker 2: The answer is no, right? [01:27:09] Speaker 3: No. [01:27:10] Speaker 2: And in terms of the phone calls that you claim that were being made, there wasn't this barrage of phone calls from him that you didn't respond to. Actually, it was more game and take, wasn't it? [01:27:20] Speaker 3: He left a barrage of phone calls at one period of time, yes. Pardon? He did. He left a barrage of phone calls. [01:27:25] Speaker 2: Well, let's just take a look at his phone records, okay? So that we can see. [01:27:31] Speaker 1: We'll see you back here at 325. Please remember the admonition. You are excused. All right. [01:27:38] Speaker ?: We'll see you back here at 425. We'll see you back here at 425. We'll see you back here at 425. We'll see you back here at 425. We'll see you back here at 525. We'll see you back here at 525. We'll see you back here at 525. We'll see you back here at 525. We'll see you back here at 525. We'll see you back here at 525. We'll see you back here at 525. We'll see you back here at 525. We'll see you back here at 625. We'll see you back here at 625. We'll see you back here at 625. We'll see you back here at 625. We'll see you back here at 625. We'll see you back here at 625. We'll see you back here at 625. We'll see you back here at 625. We'll see you back here at 625. We'll see you back here at 625. We'll see you back here at 625. We'll see you back here at 625. We'll see you back here at 625. We'll see you back here at 625. We'll see you back here at 625. We'll see you back here at 625. We'll see you back here at 625. We'll see you back here at 625. We'll see you back here at 625. We'll see you back here at 625. We'll see you back here at 625. [01:28:16] Speaker 1: We'll see you back here at 625. We'll see you back here at 625. We'll see you back here at 625. [01:28:20] Speaker ?: We'll see you back here at 625. [01:28:20] Speaker 1: We'll see you back here at 625. [01:28:21] Speaker ?: We'll see you back here at 625. [01:28:21] Speaker 1: We'll see you back here at 625. [01:28:22] Speaker ?: We'll see you back here at 625. [01:28:22] Speaker 1: We'll see you back here at 625. [01:28:23] Speaker ?: We'll see you back here at 625. We'll see you back here at 625. We'll see you back here at 625. We'll see you back here at 625. We'll see you back here at 625. We'll see you back here at 625. We'll see you back here at 625. We'll see you back here at 625. We'll see you back here at 625. We'll see you back here at 625. We'll see you back here at 625. We'll see you back here at 625. We'll see you back here at 625. We'll see you back here at 625. We'll see you back here at 625. We'll see you back here at 625. We'll see you back here at 625. We'll see you back here at 625. We'll see you back here at 625. We'll see you back here at 625. We'll see you back here at 625. We'll see you back here at 625. We'll see you back here at 625. Thank you.