James Comey urges Todd Blanche to ‘bone up’ on legal rules amid indictment: Full interview

[0:00] Welcome back and joining me now is former FBI Director James Comey, author of the new novel [0:06] Red Verdict. Director Comey, welcome back to Meet the Press. Great to be with you. [0:10] Great to have you here. Congratulations on your novel. We'll talk about it in just a moment. [0:15] I do want to start with this extraordinary moment in which you find yourself, you're facing [0:20] a second indictment by the Trump administration, trial in just a few weeks potentially. I know [0:26] you're not going to comment on the specifics of the case, but I want to ask you a big picture [0:30] question. The charges against you stem from this Instagram post of seashells that spelled out [0:36] 8647. You see it right there. The indictment says it was, quote, a serious expression of an intent [0:43] to do harm to the president of the United States. Has being under this microscope changed the way [0:49] you live your life, Director Comey? It's made me want to spend more time as a grandfather [0:55] pushing my grandkids on a swing and not talking to awesome people like yourself. But it hasn't [1:01] changed how I see the world or my life. Well, I interviewed the acting Attorney General Todd [1:06] Blanche earlier this month and he said, quote, this is not just about a single Instagram post. This is [1:12] about a body of evidence that the grand jury collected over the series of about 11 months. Do you know [1:19] what he's talking about evidence over the series of 11 months? Yeah, I saw that. As you said a few [1:26] minutes ago, I don't talk about the case because the federal court rules require you not. I would [1:31] urge the acting Attorney General to bone up on the rules. So, but do you know what he's talking about [1:37] with? I don't want to comment on it because then some would say I'm commenting on the case. He ought not [1:41] to be talking about it. I can't talk about it. That's why we have a judicial process in a courtroom. [1:46] Fair enough. In an interview with Stephen Colbert last year, you did address what you were thinking [1:51] when you and your wife were walking on the beach. You said you saw the shells in the sand. I want to [1:56] just play a little bit of what you told Stephen Colbert. She looked at it and said, why'd someone [2:01] put their address in the sand? All right. And then we stood at it, trying to figure, looked at it, [2:06] trying to figure out what it was. And she'd long been a server in restaurants. And she said, [2:09] you know what I think it is? Yeah. I think it's a reference to restaurants when you would 86 [2:13] something in a restaurant. Right. It's off the menu. Yeah. I said, no, I remember when I was a kid, [2:17] you'd say 86 to get out of a place. This place stinks. Let's 86 it. And so I said, I think it's [2:22] a clever political message. And she said, you should take a picture of it. I said, sure. [2:27] And then she said, you should Instagram that. And boom. [2:31] Just big picture, Director Comey, what do you say to those who would argue the former director of the [2:38] FBI shouldn't be putting political posts on Instagram or social media? [2:41] Yeah, I'm a private citizen. I saw a shell in the fall of 2024 where someone wrote an endorsement [2:50] of Kamala Harris in a big seashell. I took a picture of it, thought it was very clever. [2:55] And I think I wrote, Ariel understands the assignment, a reference to Little Mermaid. [2:59] I'm a private citizen. Again, I'm not going to talk about that particular post, [3:03] but I use Instagram the way any awkward, nerdy dad would. [3:07] Well, in the past, you've said you have faith in the legal system. As you face this second [3:14] indictment, are you confident that you will be cleared one way or another? [3:18] I have complete faith in our judicial system. It's the genius of our founders. It's the, [3:23] frankly, the only leg of our three-leg stool that is still standing in the U.S. government, [3:27] but it's standing tall and straight. It is the guardian of the rule of law, [3:32] and I believe in it. And so let's make use of it. [3:36] And you've publicly posted, you haven't done anything wrong. You haven't done anything [3:40] illegal. So are you confident that at the end of the day, you'll be cleared in one way or another? [3:45] All I can do without making my lawyers angry at me is repeat what I said in my initial statement. [3:50] I'm not just not guilty. I am innocent. And so let's go. [3:53] All right. You have, if we look back, been in the crosshairs of politicians in the past. This is [3:59] not new from Hillary Clinton, the email investigation, the Russia probe. Looking back, [4:04] director Comey, is there anything you would have done differently over the past decade? [4:12] Anything. Yeah, lots of things in my life as a father and a grandfather and as FBI director. [4:19] There are all kinds of things that I screwed up. The major decisions that people often talk about, [4:25] I still see them the same. But yeah, I would be better in all kinds of ways if I had a magic wand. [4:30] Yeah. Well, let me be more specific because you've wondered out loud whether your decision [4:36] to reopen the Clinton email investigation 11 days before voters went to the polls [4:40] may have helped elect President Trump back in 2016. Knowing what you know now, [4:47] would you have made the same exact decision again? [4:51] I think so. The only thing I've wondered is whether I should have dumped [4:55] that very difficult decision on the attorney general on October the 28th. She declined to [5:02] speak to me, but I could have just sent her a memo saying, here's what I think we have to do. [5:06] But I decided then, and honestly, 10 years later, it feels the same. That would have been a chicken [5:10] blank thing to do. It was a decision that I had to make because I testified all summer that [5:16] the investigation was done and now it's not done. Do I really conceal that from the American [5:21] people from the Congress? I can't. And it would have been a chicken thing to do to dump it on the [5:26] AG. But sometimes when people are unhappy with me on the street, I think, hmm, I should have left it [5:31] for Loretta Lynch. [5:32] Well, 10 years later, now that you've had all of this time to think about it, do you think [5:38] that decision did play a role in the election of President Trump? [5:42] I hope not. My goal all of that year was to stay out of politics. And having seen two elections [5:50] after that, where, as they said, the difference the FBI made was late deciding voters broke for [5:55] Trump in 16. But then they did again in 20. And then they did again in 24 when I was home in my [6:00] pajamas for both elections. So I don't think so. But again, we made the decision because it was the [6:07] least bad option. Both options sucked, honestly. But this was the one most consistent with the values [6:12] of the department. So as painful as it is, I'd have to do the same thing again. [6:17] President Trump was indicted twice by the Justice Department. As you know, in public posts, he's now [6:23] justified going after his political enemies because of how he believes he was treated. [6:29] Do you view the prosecutions against you as political payback? [6:34] Well, I can't talk about the shell case. [6:36] Talk about the first one. [6:37] Before they got dismissed. Absolutely. And we made a motion to have it dismissed as a vindictive [6:41] prosecution. The president of the United States cannot use the Justice Department to target [6:47] people because he wants to retaliate against them. We just can't operate as a republic if that [6:52] happens. And so there's a powerful argument we made that's illegal. We didn't get to that because [6:56] there are all kinds of other problems with the case. But absolutely, going after John Brennan, [7:00] after Jim Clapper, after Adam Schiff, all of these things are not about the merits. It's about [7:05] retaliation. And that is not just wrong. It's a way in which our system cannot operate and be [7:11] effective. Does it make you and your family fearful? [7:14] No, because I know what I'm dealing with. Someone who's announced he's now the hunter. [7:19] OK, let's go. Acting Attorney General Todd Blanche told me earlier this month the evidence that was [7:26] presented to a grand jury in this latest case, not the government, not the Department of Justice. [7:30] He said, quote, it's not Todd Blanche that returned an indictment against James Comey. [7:35] It's the grand jury, part of the judicial process. Does the fact that a grand jury issued this latest [7:44] indictment undercut any argument that this latest indictment might be political retribution, [7:51] not that you have made that argument here, but for those who would make that argument? [7:55] I'm so tempted to answer that. But can I answer it about the last case, which is now gone? [7:58] Same argument was made. A grand jury returned an indictment. Still doesn't change the fact that it [8:04] could be a vindictive prosecution. And there, of course, a magistrate judge found misconduct of a [8:09] variety of kinds by the late-breaking appointed U.S. attorney, Lindsey Halligan. And so it's important. [8:17] The grand jury is an important part of the process, but there's more to follow. [8:21] As you know, the FBI director is meant to serve a nonpartisan 10-year term. I don't have to tell [8:28] you that. You're very familiar with that. Do you think the next president should keep FBI director [8:33] Kash Patel in his position through his 10-year term? [8:37] The next president should make an evaluation about whether whoever's in that job come January of [8:42] 2029 is performing it in a way that's consistent with the American people's expectations for that [8:48] organization, which is to be competent, honest, and independent. On the current record, it would be a [8:53] tough continuation for the current director, but I don't know. The president, whoever the president [8:58] is then, will have to make that evaluation. Let me ask you, because would it undermine the [9:02] independence of the FBI if the next president doesn't allow Patel to serve out that full 10-year [9:10] term? Well, again, the values are independence, competence, and honesty. And if, by some stroke, [9:18] Mr. Patel is reflecting all those values in another two years, then maybe the next president will want [9:24] to keep him. But I think you have to have a competent, honest, and independent person leading [9:28] that institution, else its other contributions to America are lost. You've laid out the qualities [9:33] that you think are necessary to be FBI director. Do you think Kash Patel has those qualities? Has [9:38] he showcased that? Not for me to say. An expression from law school keeps popping in my head, [9:44] recipes loquitur, which is Latin, I think, for the thing speaks for itself. So I'll let others make [9:49] that judgment. Okay. Acting Attorney General Todd Blanche says that during the second Trump [9:54] administration so far, more than 200 people have been forced out of the Justice Department. That [10:01] includes your own daughter, who was a federal prosecutor in New York. Do you have confidence [10:06] in the Justice Department to serve the people of this country right now? I do not look that from the top [10:14] level. The people running it, if you're bragging about forcing out career prosecutors and agents [10:19] because the president doesn't like a lawful investigation they conducted, something is [10:24] seriously broken at the top. But I have great confidence in the people down below who are just [10:29] trying to hang on. And I'm urging them, hang on, two and a half years, and then we can rebuild these [10:35] institutions. But we need good people in those roles. America does. All right. Director Comey, [10:40] let me turn to your novel, Red Verdict. Here it is. Great book. It's the latest in your series, [10:47] quite frankly, of legal thrillers. It's number four. You write scenes based on your decades of [10:53] experience inside the DOJ. Do you think your novels still reflect the reality of the people [10:59] serving in the Justice Department today? Yes. Again, I'm going to exclude that top layer [11:04] and sort of skim that off. Down below, yes. People join the Department of Justice, the FBI, [11:09] which is part of the Department of Justice, because they want to do the right thing. [11:13] And in the overwhelming main, they do. My characters are flawed because they're humans, [11:18] as I am. But they are good people trying to do the right thing. That's what I love about this [11:23] writing. And I hope readers, first, the stories are really cool and capture you. But most of all, [11:29] the characters show something that is real and that ought to reassure all of us. [11:33] Well, one of the characters, the central character based on your daughter, you have said, [11:38] I wonder, what do you hope this next chapter will look like for your daughter, for you, [11:45] for your family, in your actual real life? [11:49] Well, next chapter for me will be more books. And then once a year, I will do interviews. [11:53] Maybe we'll see each other again. But for people like my daughter, my son-in-law who resigned from [11:58] the U.S. Attorney's Office in Virginia the day I was charged, they represent hundreds of quality [12:04] people. I think they're, I don't want to tell them what their employment situation should be, [12:09] but I hope they flow back. And I think lots and lots of great people will flow back with the [12:13] opportunity to rebuild the department, which was what happened after Watergate. Great young [12:18] people came back to save us, and they will again. [12:21] All right. Director James Comey, thank you so much for being here. We really appreciate it. [12:26] Thanks for having me. [12:26] Thank you. Great to talk to you. [12:34] Watch Live on our YouTube channel.