Is America better or worse off at 250 years old? — CUOMO Full Show

[0:00] All right, Chris Cuomo joins me live now. [0:01] His show kicks off in about 10 seconds. [0:03] Congressman Ro Khanna is joining you [0:05] on this July 4th Eve Eve [0:08] because he's got a new plan to tax billionaires. [0:13] Yep, I'll talk to him about it [0:14] and whether that's the right place to start. [0:17] I get that it's popular, but I want to go through it. [0:20] Things have to change, there's no question about it. [0:21] But I am starting tonight by saying happy birthday to us. [0:25] Nobody has done what America is doing. [0:28] No one is even close. [0:29] So happy birthday to us, Elizabeth. [0:31] Yeah, we forget that sometimes. [0:32] Joe Manchin was just on talking about that. [0:34] It's, yeah, happy birthday to us, America. [0:38] So have a good show. [0:39] I like Joe Manchin, but he needs to see [0:41] what's happening in his party [0:43] because it's a catalyst for the change [0:45] that the country's demanding. [0:47] He's got to stop seeing it as crazy [0:48] and understanding that it's crazy not to change. [0:51] But I'll talk to him about that directly. [0:53] Elizabeth, be well. [0:54] You too. [0:56] All right, Chris Cuomo here. [0:58] Happy birthday to us. [0:59] Not merely to America. [1:03] The country is we the people [1:05] and the institutions that bind us [1:08] and the laws that empower our collective existence. [1:13] You know, many see America [1:14] as the new world in every regard. [1:18] But we are about to achieve a milestone [1:20] that puts us ahead of just about everyone else. [1:25] We are the OG when it comes to a constitutional republic. [1:31] 250 years is an unparalleled achievement of democracy. [1:38] Russia, China, commies, France, Italy, not even half as long. [1:45] Spain, still as a king. [1:47] UK too. [1:48] Japan, India, same. [1:50] Far short of even a century. [1:52] Much older cultures and societies, of course. [1:56] But I'm talking about as a constitutional republic. [2:00] Some of them are not even that. [2:01] Germany, just since World War II. [2:04] 250 years is an amazing feat. [2:07] No one else is close. [2:09] Bravo to us. [2:11] And it is especially impressive [2:13] in a place that doesn't have basic affinities [2:16] like common ancestry, color, or even culture. [2:21] America has always been and continues to be [2:24] an experiment that defies all expectations and all odds. [2:30] And I hope that we use, but certainly I am, [2:35] using this milestone to mark a recommitment [2:38] to what it's supposed to be all about. [2:42] Because I submit to you that we have clearly [2:44] lost sight of our basic mission. [2:47] The point of this place is to form a more perfect union. [2:54] We are clearly dominated by people in power [2:56] and parties and profiteers who are dividing us [2:59] on purpose, for profit. [3:02] We are literally not even trying [3:05] to collaborate in our collective fate. [3:07] We are abusing what has been built over generations. [3:14] Justice for all is our highest regard. [3:18] It is the hallmark of America's promise. [3:21] A big part of that, maybe the biggest, [3:24] is economic justice. [3:26] Economic justice is every bit as powerful [3:30] a promoter of a more perfect union. [3:34] And the many in this country get it. [3:36] This is not about killing capitalism, [3:39] this resistance movement to the norm, [3:41] to the status quo. [3:42] It's about changing what is killing [3:45] the promise of capitalism in this country, [3:48] which is supposed to be about empowering the many, [3:51] not just the few. [3:54] Inequality is the enemy of justice. [3:57] It is anathema to justice, [4:00] especially when it is forced. [4:04] We are in a K-shaped economy, okay? [4:07] You see? [4:10] What is it? [4:11] It's what you see. [4:11] The rich are going like that. [4:14] They're doing better than ever in the stock market. [4:16] Billionaires are being minted [4:18] while more and more are forced [4:21] to live paycheck to paycheck. [4:24] That is inequality. [4:27] The idea that it has to be the way it is, [4:30] I'm not saying everybody has to be the same, [4:32] but the fact that the inequality [4:34] has to be to this degree, [4:36] that's not about economics or capitalism. [4:38] It's about choice. [4:39] And I submit to you, [4:41] capitalism without any conscience [4:44] for the regard of the collective [4:46] or any sense of responsibility [4:48] to anything but your own avarice [4:50] is really just the pursuit of greed. [4:53] Capitalism absent conscience is just greed. [4:57] Severe income inequality is bad for all in America [5:02] because it replaces the historic guarantee [5:06] of economic mobility. [5:08] It allows the few to rob the foundational opportunity [5:12] of the dream, work hard, and get ahead. [5:17] This is not about wanting everything for free. [5:19] It's not about not wanting to work. [5:21] That is insulting to many in this country who struggle. [5:27] A large segment of this population [5:29] is working harder than ever to earn less, [5:33] needing multiple jobs to make the same. [5:36] They have less purchasing power, [5:39] and they see less and less attainability [5:41] of the American dream. [5:44] Addressing economic inequality [5:47] is a matter of collective self-preservation [5:49] because America is a unified family. [5:52] We are interconnected and interdependent. [5:57] What happens to the many is going to impact the few [6:00] and vice versa. [6:02] Excuse me. [6:04] I get choked up when I talk about it. [6:07] But be clear. [6:10] My problem with the problem [6:11] is that it's not happening because of scarcity [6:14] or because some are strong but most are weak [6:17] or some act of God. [6:19] This is the way it is because of choices [6:21] made by our government. [6:23] For example, we have a tax system [6:26] that provides a government preference. [6:29] You give corporations a preference. [6:32] Why? [6:33] Well, they're perceived to create value for communities [6:35] by hiring and supporting workers, right? [6:39] It's good for the many. [6:40] Good for families. [6:41] Good for communities. [6:42] Great. [6:43] So what does it mean when the two largest employers [6:45] in this country have a disproportionate number [6:47] of their workers who still need government assistance [6:50] to eat for health care? [6:53] Why would those companies get a tax preference? [6:56] Why do they pay a lower tax rate [6:59] when they don't pay their workers enough? [7:02] That was the deal. [7:05] They have no right to the advantage. [7:09] It's a privilege. [7:11] It's a preference. [7:12] We give it to them [7:14] and they are not doing what they're supposed to do. [7:17] Wouldn't it be better [7:19] if that preference were conditioned [7:21] on how they perform with their workers? [7:24] That's not socialism. [7:26] That's capitalism with government regulation, [7:30] just like now. [7:34] Why don't we give that preference to small businesses? [7:37] They don't get the same kind of break on their taxes. [7:40] They employ half the workers in this country. [7:43] They add half of our GDP. [7:48] This is about choices. [7:50] Picking how easy it is for some versus others. [7:55] And thanks to the tariffs, [7:57] small business importers were forced to fork over [7:59] an additional $300,000 a year last year on average. [8:05] The mom and pop shops were supposed to care about, [8:07] but we don't preference. [8:09] They were forced to lay off 4.5 times more people [8:12] than they did during the pandemic. [8:15] Why? [8:16] Choices. [8:17] The price pressure on all of us is palpable. [8:22] The Fed estimates inflation [8:23] would have been roughly 26% lower [8:26] if the tariffs were never put into effect. [8:28] They were a choice. [8:30] At the 250-year mark, we see the biggest challenge. [8:34] AI is everything. [8:36] The next wave of the chip economy, [8:38] you put those two together, it's everything. [8:40] It's the biggest economic [8:41] and the biggest national security issue. [8:43] It is being ignored at our peril. [8:46] In fact, I wish it were being ignored. [8:47] The preference of the president of the United States is clear. [8:51] He is getting paid now. [8:53] The question is, will any of you get paid ever? [8:58] And of course, we have a healthcare crisis. [9:00] Premiums are up 50% in the last decade. [9:03] Everybody knows it. [9:04] They all talk about it. [9:05] They don't do anything. [9:08] Why? [9:09] The problem works better for them than solving it, [9:13] because it helps them keep us divided, [9:16] using all kinds of tactics to blame one side or the other. [9:21] That's why they don't fix it. [9:22] That and they want the money of the industry. [9:25] Just like with AI. [9:26] AI is dumping money into Trump's pockets [9:28] and everybody who will take it, [9:29] and they'll all take it. [9:32] Healthcare spending is a fifth of our GDP. [9:34] It's the only sector consistently creating jobs. [9:36] This can't continue, [9:37] and the government is doing nothing to address the power [9:39] that the healthcare pigs have over all of us, [9:42] and that's what they are. [9:45] Healthcare was never meant to be a place to maximize profits. [9:49] That's the war we signed up for with the last election. [9:52] That's what was promised to us as a battle. [9:53] That was this president recognizing, [9:58] remember, when he said, [10:00] I'm going to call in the healthcare pigs [10:01] and tell them it's time for a change. [10:05] Remember that? [10:06] Just about the same time that he said, [10:07] you know, I'm going to go to these banks [10:08] and I'm going to tell them, [10:09] you're charging too much for these credit card interest rates. [10:11] I'm going to cap them at 10%. [10:13] Remember that? [10:14] Whatever happened to it? [10:16] Nothing. [10:18] Why? [10:19] That's hard. [10:20] Easy to say. [10:21] Hard to do. [10:22] As Pop, may he rest in peace, [10:24] who cared about income inequality [10:26] and saw us heading exactly where we are. [10:28] You campaign in poetry. [10:30] You govern in prose. [10:31] It's easy to talk shit. [10:33] It's hard to get shit done. [10:35] Instead, more money than ever [10:38] goes to a military for a war that no one asked for. [10:41] 250 years is kind of like becoming an adult. [10:45] It's time for us to be our best self. [10:47] It's time for us to put childish things aside. [10:50] We know what works best for America. [10:52] That's not what's happening. [10:53] Most of us agree about what is wrong. [10:56] So be suspicious of those who are trying to scare you [10:59] about what happens if anything changes. [11:02] So if anything is anything, [11:04] except the way you're doing it right now, [11:06] except if you're like what MAGA wants, [11:09] then it's going to be disaster [11:12] because they're just killing it [11:14] with what they've been doing, right? [11:18] MAGA has forgotten the lesson of its own ascendance [11:20] about what matters most to many in this country, [11:26] disrupting a system that doesn't seem set up for them. [11:31] What's going on that they know is wrong. [11:35] You do that, you do enough, no matter what you call it, [11:40] no matter what you even say is going to follow this. [11:44] When people are desperate, they want desperate measures. [11:48] They want change. [11:49] What that change is, have you ever heard anybody ask, [11:52] where are we going when you're getting them [11:55] out of a house that's on fire? [11:57] Never. [12:00] Take it from me, a very new firefighter. [12:04] Even I know that. [12:06] When you're grabbing people out of a place that's on fire, [12:08] they never ask you where you're going. [12:11] So all this talk about what's going to happen [12:13] if anything changes doesn't work for me. [12:15] Not on my birthday. [12:16] Not when I'm celebrating what makes this country great [12:18] and I'm watching the people in power [12:20] do everything they can to not continue our greatness. [12:24] That's how I see it. [12:26] And I wish you the best this weekend. [12:29] Love yourselves. [12:31] Love what you're a part of. [12:32] And part of that is saying, [12:34] damn, we got to do better. [12:35] Why? [12:36] Because it is amazing what potential we have in this country. [12:40] Nobody has anything like what we have going. [12:44] Are you really going to let it become something less than it could? [12:48] I don't think so. [12:49] I don't believe it. [12:51] Enjoy yourself this fourth. [12:52] You deserve to. [12:53] Nothing is perfect. [12:54] Everything has to be better. [12:56] But what we have done so far is extraordinary in this world. [13:01] So change is coming. [13:04] What should it look like? [13:05] I think that's getting ahead of it. [13:08] I really think that all that matters is figuring out a way [13:10] to plug into the collective concern that this has to change. [13:18] I think that's enough. [13:19] Ro Khanna, member of Congress in California, Democrat, says not enough. [13:25] You got to have the answers. [13:27] He released what he calls a new social contract for America. [13:31] Who's he, Newt Gingrich? [13:32] No, that was the contract with America. [13:35] This includes a new tax on billionaires. [13:37] I want to talk to the representative about why he believes this is the big fix. [13:41] Happy birthday, Ro. [13:43] You are a beautiful demonstration of the American experience. [13:49] As are you, Chris. [13:50] You know, I am a bicentennial baby and born in Philadelphia in 1976. [13:55] My wife always says I had nothing to do with it, but it is still a great patriotic fact, and this is still the greatest country in the world. [14:03] And I am so proud and excited about us celebrating our 250th anniversary. [14:09] No one should let politics take away from that monumental achievement for our nation. [14:15] So, you have a plan. [14:19] You say, if we just restructure how we tax the top, everything's going to be okay. [14:23] The easy cynicism is, why do you got to talk taxes? [14:29] Why can't you just cut spending first, start there, and then talk about how you apportion the pie that you already have? [14:36] Why talk taxes? [14:39] Well, we can talk cutting spending as well. [14:41] The biggest spending is paying for these foreign wars, with Donald Trump proposing a defense budget that's almost 70% of our discretionary budget, over a trillion dollars. [14:51] So, let's start by cutting there and start by not getting into foreign wars in Iran. [14:56] But the reality is, Chris, we have 19 billionaires who have about 12% of the GDP. [15:02] They're worth $3 trillion, 19 people. [15:04] It's three times the wealth concentration of the Gilded Age, when you had Rockefeller, Carnegie, Morgan, and Vanderbilt. [15:10] Now, some of them have done incredible things. [15:12] They've built real businesses. [15:14] They've added value. [15:15] My point is just that they could pay a modest tax. [15:19] If America has been good to you, you can do good for America. [15:22] And them paying a modest tax, if the 900 billionaires in this country pay a 5% tax, that would create $4 trillion that could go for universal child care, that could increase teacher salaries, that could provide dental, vision, and hearing. [15:37] All of us, all of America could be benefiting from what my district is producing in wealth. [15:43] What do you think to the criticism that that is tantamount to free everything, and that people don't want to work for what they get, and that you are trying to redistribute wealth? [16:00] Well, first of all, my proposals aren't free everything. [16:02] For example, I have said, let's have a housing guarantee by 35. [16:07] You have got to work seven years. [16:08] But if you do that, then you should get the same deal we give veterans, zero down payment and low-interest loans, so that people actually can buy a home and live the American dream. [16:17] But you have got to do your part. [16:19] You have got to work. [16:20] Now, health care, I do think, should be a free human right. [16:24] And that is the richest country in the world. [16:26] We can afford to do that. [16:28] We can afford to pay for people's health care with Medicare for All, with national health insurance. [16:34] Doctors can still make money, and you still can have private health care, but that is something that the government can do. [16:40] And, like I said, I don't begrudge people wealth. [16:43] I think that some of these people have created chips. [16:46] They have created electric vehicles. [16:50] They have created iPhones. [16:52] Great. [16:52] They have created, in some cases, AI that is helping cure cancer or rare disease. [16:59] It is fine, but you can pay 5% a year, when, in the last three years, your wealth has gone up 150%, and people are just looking at it. [17:08] You know, Al, I know, Chris, I go around the country, and I say, without sarcasm, Elon Musk has become a trillionaire. [17:15] In a lot of places, people boo. [17:18] And my point is, really, we're booing the business leaders in this country? [17:23] Something is off. [17:24] Why are they booing? [17:25] Because they don't feel any prosperity. [17:27] They don't feel like they're part of it. [17:28] I mean, I'm not saying don't have great entrepreneurs. [17:30] Just make sure everyone feels a part of it. [17:33] When you say that Elon Musk is a trillionaire, do you say it in a way that it sounds like an insult to get them to boo, Mr. Conner? [17:41] In what context do you bring it up? [17:42] As an aside? [17:44] No, you know, in the beginning, because I'm honest, yeah, I was doing it kind of as an aside. [17:50] But then I said, let me just be neutral. [17:52] Let me just be neutral. [17:54] Let me just say and get the reaction. [17:55] And I started getting booze for that in, like, the Teamsters, when I would speak to the Teamsters. [18:01] And it used to be in this country that we admired business leaders. [18:05] Lee Iacocca, you know, Bill Knudsen, who industrialized America, was the CEO of GM. [18:10] Because you thought you could become them. [18:12] Because you thought they could become them. [18:14] OK, and that's why people didn't begrudge wealth, because they thought it was an aspiration. [18:21] It now seems like it's a closed club. [18:24] What about my idea? [18:25] You guys give corporations a lower tax rate than small business owners, for example, right, who mostly have pass-through agencies. [18:34] You can get more deductions than a typical household. [18:36] But you're not treated the way a C-corporation is if you're an LLC or a small business. [18:42] Why not condition the preference? [18:44] You don't get to pay the corporate tax as it is now if you pay people not enough to eat. [18:52] If they have to get SNAP, you don't get to pay that tax rate. [18:56] You have to pay more. [18:57] If they have to be on Medicaid, then you have to pay more. [19:01] That's not socialism. [19:04] That's capitalism with different choices of regulation. [19:06] So, Chris, you may be surprised to hear this. [19:12] Bernie Sanders and I have a bill that does exactly this. [19:16] It's called the Stop Bezos Act. [19:17] But it basically says that if Amazon, if you want to live off the government subsidies for social programs, [19:25] if we're having to pay SNAP benefits, if we're having to pay the housing benefits for people, [19:32] then you're not going to get that corporate tax. [19:35] Your taxes are going to go up, because why should the government, why should you and I subsidize low-wage work? [19:41] And this, to me, seems a very reasonable thing, that if companies are doing really well, [19:47] they should pay their employees a living wage. [19:50] And, by the way, why not give the employees some ownership, some stock, [19:53] some sense that you're part of the wealth generation? [19:57] It's not just, Chris, that people don't think they can become billionaires. [20:00] I don't think deep down a lot of people where I grew up in Bucks County, Pennsylvania said, [20:04] I want to be a billionaire. [20:05] Some people did, and that's great. [20:07] But they thought that if people made money and did big businesses, it would help all of America. [20:13] And now they're seeing that that's really not the case. [20:16] Right. [20:17] I think you're right. [20:18] Look, I think what's wrong in America has become very clear. [20:21] What gets done about it and how it gets organized and galvanized, we will see. [20:26] And you are part of that conversation, and you're always welcome to have it here. [20:29] Happy birthday to you, Ro Khanna, and I hope you enjoy it this weekend. [20:36] Happy birthday to you and to everyone watching, and let's have a great fourth. [20:40] And like I said, my story would not be possible anywhere else. [20:44] Son of Indian immigrants, Hindu faith, grew up middle class, Bucks County, [20:48] representing Silicon Valley, third of the nation's wealth. [20:50] It's an incredible country. [20:52] It's a country produced Donald Trump and Mamdani. [20:54] Which other nation can do that? [20:57] Where else? [20:58] Hey, look, I mean, we see these stories all over the place. [21:01] Find me another country where in one generation, [21:04] the Cuomos go from being ethnics to being white. [21:09] My father was not considered a white guy. [21:12] He was considered an ethnic. [21:14] And it was usually disparaging. [21:16] And one generation later, the family is completely assimilated [21:20] and is seen as part of a majority. [21:22] Only in America. [21:24] And Chris, are you allowed that kind of mobility, if we keep it that way? [21:29] Just if you give me one other word, people should watch your father's 1984 convention speech on July 4th, [21:35] where he talks about his father, your grandfather, [21:38] and the blood coming out of the soles of his feet, [21:42] and how his father never dreamed that your father would be governor. [21:45] It still gives me chills when I watch that speech as an American. [21:48] And maybe that could be the types of things we celebrate on July 4th. [21:53] Only possible here, if we keep it possible. [21:55] Ro Khanna, thank you very much. [21:57] Four minutes and 35 seconds. [21:58] Coming up, Republicans believe that that discussion is defeated with a single word. [22:05] Socialism. [22:05] Now, I'm going to give a huge hint to our next guest, who is a reasonable Republican. [22:10] Did you notice that Ro Khanna never used the word socialism? [22:15] That he never discussed getting rid of capitalism? [22:18] Why? [22:19] What is this really about? [22:20] Let's discuss with a Republican. [22:22] Next. [22:41] Everything that I laid out, everything that you know about your life and purchasing power [22:46] and underemployment and what it seems works well and for who in this country. [22:51] Do you think all of it can be dismissed with a single word? [22:55] But socialism, will that be enough to beat back the reality of the affordability crisis? [23:01] Let's ask a Republican who is a reasonable man and a good leader. [23:06] Former governor of New Hampshire, Mr. Chris Sununu. [23:08] Happy birthday to you, handsome. [23:12] Happy birthday to you, sir. [23:13] You're looking great for 250. [23:14] Thank you very much. [23:15] It is amazing, right? [23:16] A little bit light right here, but for 250, that's not bad. [23:19] Let's be honest. [23:20] So you may have noticed Ro Khanna did not say the word socialism. [23:26] He did not talk about getting rid of capitalism. [23:30] Why? [23:31] When that's all this is about, from what I hear from President Trump. [23:35] Yeah, well, a couple things. [23:36] So Democrats, you know, Ro is a very reasonable Democrat, of course, [23:39] and Democrats never want to talk about socialism, just like Republicans don't want to. [23:44] We don't love the word MAGA. [23:45] We don't love to talk about extreme parts of our party, right? [23:48] But they are very, very real, without a doubt. [23:51] So I think you've laid the groundwork for a very strong argument. [23:54] You can't just say socialism, socialism, don't vote for Democrats because they're socialists, [23:59] because you have to be for something, right? [24:01] And so what, especially President Trump and what Republicans got elected on was disrupting the system, [24:06] a system that, you know, was about an us versus them system, and he was going to disrupt that. [24:12] I think to your point, we're not seeing enough of that change. [24:15] We're seeing some changes within government, but it's still an us versus them system. [24:19] So you still have congressmen and senators that make a heck of a lot of money in the stock market, [24:24] and they can still, you know, with inside information and all of that, [24:27] and they have yet to close that loophole. [24:28] You see the administration selling products, and as a governor, as an elected official, [24:32] I don't think you should ever be selling anything, right? [24:34] It just, it destroys your arguments on the us versus them type breakdown. [24:39] So if you're going to be elected as a disruptor, you have to follow through as the disruptor. [24:44] The Republicans are the party in control, and it's up to leadership, not just the president, [24:47] but leadership across the board to kind of find their way to make those inroads, [24:52] as opposed to what you're talking about, which is, yeah, but they're just a bunch of socialists. [24:56] It ain't going to work. If you do that, we're going to lose terribly in the midterm. [25:01] Socialism is awful, and I think that on the, I'll call it the DNA of the parties, [25:05] Democrats have a much bigger problem with the DNA of their party because of the idea that, [25:11] well, government is better, right? [25:12] I thought your opening was terrific and exposed this idea that Americans, [25:16] we really don't really trust a lot of our billionaires and now trillionaires to kind of have the give back, [25:22] you know, that second half of the equation. [25:24] You're going to make all this money and provide a lot of jobs, [25:26] but again, there's a give back that's supposed to come with that half of the equation. [25:30] Well, the only people less trusted than billionaires is government. [25:33] So the answer for the Democrats isn't more government, believe me, right? [25:37] That's saying it's like the anti-disruptors. [25:40] So there's a... [25:41] Well, I don't think it's more government. [25:43] I think it's better government. [25:46] You know, your father and my father used to talk about this all the time. [25:50] Chris's father is a brilliant political thinker, was a great politician, great leader. [25:55] And he would often talk about small government. [25:59] And my father would say, well, small for who? [26:01] That's right. [26:01] Small for how? [26:02] Is defense small government? [26:04] Is corporate welfare small government? [26:07] The bankruptcy laws, the reorganization laws, the bailouts, is that small government? [26:11] So it's about choices of what your government does. [26:14] We clearly need government to be doing different things than it's doing right now. [26:18] The idea that we don't need government, I think, is demonstrably false. [26:22] Just look at this administration. [26:23] You know, have you ever seen an administration that is more of an example of a need for competent leadership? [26:29] Well, look, there's competent leadership needed across the board. [26:34] And you're right. [26:34] You do need government in certain areas. [26:37] There is no doubt that government has gone too far. [26:39] I mean, one thing, let's just bring up Roe, because I respect Roe Khanna a lot. [26:44] And he's talking about, you know, increasing taxes and all of this stuff. [26:47] But let's remember, what's the core of the problem of government? [26:49] It's not a revenue problem. [26:51] It's a spending problem, right? [26:53] So let's focus on the core of government, the waste that's in there, the fraud and abuse that, again, [26:58] I would give this administration a lot of credit trying every which way to weed out a lot of that fraud and abuse. [27:04] Waste, fraud, and abuse is always a thing. [27:08] Whatever the most grotesque estimate is, let's say it's true, [27:11] it's nothing compared to the increase that they're asking for in the defense budget. [27:15] Inflation is a tax. [27:18] Price increases are a direct and regressive tax, okay? [27:23] So you can say I don't like taxing billionaires, but boy, the Trump administration has laid a lot of new taxes on the American people. [27:35] Doesn't that bother you? [27:38] Oh, absolutely. [27:39] Look, you're talking to the former governor of New Hampshire. [27:41] I have to look up what tax means in the dictionary, for God's sakes, [27:44] because we run a lean government. [27:46] I'm very proud of what we put together. [27:48] I think it's a model for the rest of the country. [27:50] You know, look us up on Wikipedia. [27:52] You'll find all the answers. [27:53] But at the end of the day, I go back, I think you bring up a lot of really good points. [27:57] I'm as pro-military as they come. [27:59] My son is a U.S. Marine, couldn't be prouder, but make no mistake about it, [28:03] the defense department is the most inefficient department in terms of procurement, [28:07] in terms of how they spend their money, from buying a bag of washers to fix a helicopter, [28:12] to the, you can have just as many bullets and soldiers and even more [28:15] if you just found the efficiencies within that department, [28:17] and that runs, you know, through really the entirety of government. [28:21] And, you know, there's an interesting dynamic going on in America. [28:24] It's why people are looking to the states or to their local officials with more trust. [28:29] If you look at how you trust government, you trust your school board, [28:32] you trust your planning board, you trust your city council more than, [28:35] a lot more than you trust the governor, [28:36] and you trust the governor a lot more than you trust anybody in Washington, D.C. [28:41] So, the question is, will we see kind of a relocalization of politics [28:44] as Congress does less and less, right? [28:46] They, unfortunately, and I think Congress has to be [28:49] a really important third stool of government. [28:52] It has to be there, but they're just not doing it [28:54] with all the government shutdowns and the inability to find any sort of compromise. [28:57] I think that what we're going to see at some point is, [29:01] like, you just see a huge incumbency effect, [29:04] and it's going to reverse from what it usually is, [29:07] that it gives you an advantage, [29:08] and they're going to get rid of you three out of four times. [29:10] And because people want people in there who go in with a different mindset [29:14] who aren't part of what they see as the problem. [29:16] That's why I think I can't wait for your next chapter, Governor Sununu. [29:20] And I appreciate having you on the show. [29:23] Let me give you a quick one. [29:24] Let's say you took all 100 members of the U.S. Senate [29:27] and got rid of them and replaced them [29:29] with 100 randomly chosen working adults in America today. [29:33] Are you going to get less done? [29:35] Is it going to get worse? [29:36] Nope. [29:36] No, of course not. [29:37] Nope. [29:37] So, unfortunately, that bar on both sides of the aisle [29:39] has been set incredibly low. [29:41] And so, I think you're exactly right. [29:43] I think at some point, the populism of the day [29:46] is going to be an anti-incumbency, [29:48] and it's going to be a kind of clearing of the house, [29:50] and that can be a very healthy thing. [29:54] Well, especially desperate people do desperate things. [29:56] Governor Chris Sununu, appreciate you. [29:58] Enjoy the weekend, you and your family. [29:59] Health and wealth. [30:00] Take care of yourself. [30:01] Four minutes and 30 seconds. [30:02] All right, let's switch away. [30:06] Here, if it were up to Dusty, [30:08] all I'd be talking about tonight is Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey. [30:11] I'll be honest, I didn't even know they were getting married tomorrow [30:14] at Madison Square Garden. [30:15] I get why people are making people crazy, [30:18] but let me tell you, these are first world problems. [30:20] Here's what I'm thinking about. [30:21] Russia is killing Ukrainian civilians, okay? [30:26] That's what they're doing. [30:28] They're bombing the capital. [30:29] They killed almost two dozen people. [30:32] They don't even know. [30:32] They're not even done counting. [30:33] They're committing war crimes every hour, okay? [30:39] What is going to happen next? [30:41] What needs to happen? [30:42] What do we need to do here? [30:44] Next. [30:44] What is America supposed to do about Russia? [30:59] They're targeting civilians, okay? [31:02] That's what they're doing. [31:04] They're doing it as much or more of what people criticize other countries for [31:08] in other conflict situations. [31:11] They bombed the capital, hitting mostly residential places. [31:16] Ukraine says Russia launched 74 missiles, nearly 500 drones, [31:21] killed more than 20 people. [31:23] This comes on the heels of Ukraine striking Russian infrastructure, [31:26] causing energy shortages across the country. [31:28] But you see the difference? [31:30] What are we going to do about it? [31:32] Let's ask. [31:33] Let's ask the better minds about what's possible, what's likely. [31:37] Former special advisors to the Ukrainian military, [31:39] now president of the American university in Kyiv, Mr. Dan Rice, [31:44] and Trump's former deputy national security advisor, KT McFarland. [31:48] In truth, I couldn't think of two better people to have on this subject. [31:52] Thank you both. [31:53] And happy birthday to both of you. [31:56] Nobody has done what America just achieved [31:59] with 250 years of a constitutional republic. [32:02] Bravo and brava to us. [32:05] Mr. Rice, there it is. [32:07] Look at that jacket, KT. [32:08] Wow! [32:09] Wow! [32:10] Wow! [32:10] I mean, that is strong. [32:12] That is strong. [32:13] So, Dan, when you look at this situation, [32:18] people need to be alarmed. [32:20] This is a crisis point. [32:21] Why? [32:21] Well, right now, Ukraine has really taken the war deep into Russia very, very successfully. [32:28] Unfortunately, the way the Russians respond is they attack civilians. [32:32] They can't win on the battlefield. [32:33] And so they're putting ballistic missiles and Shahid killer drones into civilian areas, [32:38] mostly Kyiv. [32:39] And they really hit Kyiv hard two nights ago and killed a number of children sleeping in their beds. [32:46] And it's a terrible situation, Chris, by any stretch. [32:49] They're going to keep doing it. [32:50] Every time there's a success on the Ukrainian side, Russia lashes out and kills children. [32:54] We just have to end this war. [32:56] And the way we end this war is the way President Zelensky is running this 40-day campaign. [33:01] And the 40-day campaign has taken the war deep into Russia. [33:04] Now there's fuel lines all across Russia. [33:06] A country that's built on fuel, they have fuel lines. [33:09] People can't get gasoline. [33:11] That's just phase one. [33:12] It's about to get a lot worse. [33:15] KT, there is a sense, maybe it's not completely true, [33:21] that Russia gets a break from America, [33:25] that we don't arm Ukraine the way we do Israel. [33:29] We don't go after Russia the way we go after the regime in Iran. [33:35] Is that true? [33:36] And if so, what's the distinction? [33:39] No, I mean, here's the thing. [33:41] So we're not the world's policemen. [33:42] We should not be militarily engaged ourselves in Ukraine, [33:47] or should we be trying to have boots on the ground or forever wars? [33:52] It just doesn't work. [33:53] We're not very good at it, for starters. [33:55] But what we are doing with Ukraine [33:56] is something that previous administrations have not done, [33:59] which is we are now selling them very lethal weapons, [34:02] and we're buying drones from them. [34:04] So we have a different kind of relationship with them. [34:06] And the thing that I think is so stunning is what's happened. [34:10] You know, three years ago, I was saying, [34:12] look, Russia's going to win. [34:13] This is a war of attrition. [34:15] The country with more people, more money, more energy, [34:18] better weapons systems, [34:19] that's a country that wins a war of attrition. [34:21] Ukraine doesn't have any of those things. [34:22] But what Ukraine did was it flipped the script. [34:26] So it took all the things that Russia was really good at [34:28] and neutralized them. [34:29] How did they do it? [34:30] They did it with drones, homemade drones. [34:33] Ukrainians are making them in their basement. [34:36] And those drones are what's taking the war [34:38] to the central part of Russia, [34:40] to the cities where it's not the cities. [34:42] The people in the cities haven't suffered from this war at all. [34:44] And you marry that with the fact that oil prices are now plummeting. [34:48] And that's Russia's main source of revenue. [34:51] And Russia's going to be in a tough place. [34:53] I think that when Trump says, look, they both want to end this war, [34:56] they just don't know how to get from here to there. [34:58] I mean, maybe he can use this diplomacy. [35:00] He says he's settled nine wars. [35:02] You know, maybe a tenth war would be great. [35:05] Well, I don't know what the other eight are. [35:07] But I know that the two main ones that are going on [35:10] don't seem like they're going to end anytime soon. [35:12] Dan, what's the missing piece? [35:14] Let's end on that. [35:15] What's the missing piece in this puzzle? [35:17] Chris, so the next phase, just think about what happened in COVID. [35:21] When everybody started realizing that, you know, that COVID was coming, [35:24] what did people do? [35:24] They ran, grabbed stuff off the shelves. [35:26] There was a run on every grocery store. [35:28] That's about to happen in Russia. [35:30] They don't realize it now. [35:31] But the first time they started thinking, [35:32] hey, there's no fuel to get me from A to B. [35:35] There's no fuel to get goods from A to B. [35:38] What am I going to have for food tomorrow? [35:39] And they're all going to start raiding. [35:41] There's going to be panic that will set in. [35:43] The next phase after that is likely everybody runs to the ATM to pull out cash [35:46] because cash is king during a crisis and the ATMs will be out. [35:49] Now you have a real panic. [35:50] So this is exactly what the playbook that Ukraine did in Crimea. [35:54] So cut off the fuel, cause a fuel crisis. [35:56] That also means that the backup generators don't work if you don't have fuel. [36:00] Okay, now go for the power stations. [36:02] Now you get the power stations. [36:03] There's no fuel. [36:04] There's no backup power. [36:05] Now you have a real crisis on your hand. [36:07] And that's what's going to happen all the way across Russia. [36:08] I expect it's going to happen in Volgograd, the old Stalingrad, [36:12] and a number of smaller cities. [36:14] And then the big coup is, the big end game to this is, [36:17] Ukraine needs the Zaporizhia 6 gigawatt nuclear power plant back. [36:22] The only way they can get it is to threaten something of equal value for Russia. [36:26] Those power plants that are powering St. Petersburg and Moscow are centralized old Soviet. [36:32] We can take them out. [36:33] Ukraine can take them out. [36:34] And as soon as that threat is there, after taking out several other cities [36:39] and seeing how they devolve in total chaos, [36:41] there is a potential then for President Trump to set in. [36:44] President Trump can step in at that point. [36:48] All right, Dan, I appreciate you. [36:50] KT, I love you. [36:51] Thank you very much, both of you, for making the case here. [36:54] I can't wait for this to end. [36:55] I can't wait to go to Ukraine and see what happens when this wins, [36:58] especially if it's on mostly their terms. [37:00] Four minutes and 15 seconds. [37:02] So many times. [37:03] Thanks, Dan. [37:04] Up next. [37:05] The case coming out of Ohio today, Dusty sent it to me. [37:08] I've never heard anything like it. [37:10] Never. [37:11] 16 kids, 18 months old to 18 years old, [37:15] rescued from this disgusting house of horrors. [37:21] Deadass. [37:22] Okay? [37:22] No exaggeration. [37:24] Authorities say the children were covered in bugs, feces, living in one room. [37:30] How did they get away with this for so long? [37:33] Long. [37:34] You talk about a system that needs to be fixed. [37:36] Next. [37:37] I got to tell you something. [38:02] Somebody's writing me about this story we're doing right now. [38:05] I've never seen anything like it. [38:07] Tuesday in Ohio, 16 kids, 18 months to 18 years old. [38:12] 16. [38:14] Okay? [38:14] They were found having lived the last four years, not in that little ass crappy house, [38:21] in a room in the basement that is 12 by 12. [38:26] Neighbors say they had no idea that the kids lived there. [38:29] 16 kids, not in school. [38:33] Cops say some of them were barely able to communicate. [38:36] Seven of them were taken to the hospital. [38:39] Two of them are in critical condition. [38:41] The parents, the paternal grandparents, are arrested, charged 16 counts of felony, child [38:47] endangerment. [38:47] The state attorney general and sheriff said the children looked almost feral. [38:53] Most of our livestock was kept in better conditions than the children. [39:00] It was extremely high presence, I'm sure, of bacterial and human feces. [39:09] It was just a disgusting scene. [39:11] It's not that different than those old commercials you see of kids in Africa, [39:16] where they're covered in bugs and squatting and had that distant look in their eyes. [39:23] It was terrible. [39:24] I mean, it is absolutely terrible. [39:28] So, how did it happen? [39:31] Okay? [39:31] We don't need these guys to tell us how bad it is. [39:34] We get that, right? [39:35] We get it. [39:37] How? [39:37] Does it, how does this happen? [39:39] Is it the neighbors? [39:40] Is it the government? [39:42] How? [39:42] I never heard anything like this. [39:43] Let's bring in former FBI Special Agent Jennifer Coffendaffer, [39:46] Criminal Defense Attorney Mark Geragos. [39:49] Now, I'll give you the easiest comp, is J.C. Dugard. [39:53] But here's the difference. [39:54] You're dealing with three, four kids, and the system did know Coffendaffer. [39:59] They went multiple times. [40:01] They just got duped by that dirt bag that had stolen them in the first place. [40:05] How, how does someone get away with something of this scale? [40:10] Or should I not be surprised you heard about it all the time? [40:14] You get away with it because you conceal it by moving over and over again. [40:19] You don't let the children out of the house, and you keep them in that basement. [40:25] But who even does something like this, Geragos? [40:27] Like, we don't know if there was a financial profit. [40:29] Is this just like, you know, just psychos? [40:32] You know, I was going to say, you hate to judge a book by its cover, but I do that for a living. [40:40] And if you take one look, this does not look like people who are in their right mind. [40:46] And obviously, if any of this is, if even 15 percent of this is true, it's horrifying. [40:54] But also, like, what does it speak to? [40:57] Don't we have to do a better job of, like, looking after each other, Mark, when a society [41:02] can allow this kind of depravity? [41:05] I don't understand. [41:07] I think probably the thing that strikes me the most is the span of the ages. [41:12] I mean, 18 months to 18 years is just stunning in terms of that. [41:19] And how do you maintain this? [41:22] I just don't, when they're talking about it being a feral quality, that I think that's [41:28] actually a pretty good use of the word. [41:31] I mean, just completely. [41:32] Chris, I've got to say here. [41:34] It's not, it's not civilized is, I guess, the best way I'd put it. [41:38] Yeah, that's for sure. [41:39] So it's hard to look at it. [41:40] Yeah, it's hard to look at it through a prism of any way to rationally digest this or discuss [41:47] this. [41:47] Yeah, I got it. [41:48] Absence some other explanation. [41:51] I agree. [41:51] And Jen, you got part of that with the mom. [41:54] Yeah, you know, I truly believe it's not just about the mother. [41:57] I think there are going to be other charges with incest. [42:00] If you look at the number of years in between this, I believe these older children, the females [42:06] that were able to be of childbearing years, I think they're going to have to do full DNA [42:11] to see really who the parents are of all of these children. [42:14] They also need to go to the other houses they lived at because we don't know that there [42:19] are other children that just didn't make it. [42:22] Yep. [42:22] Those are great points. [42:23] This story's got a couple chapters left. [42:25] Mark Garagos, Jennifer Coffendaffer, happy birthday to you guys. [42:29] Enjoy this weekend. [42:30] We'll be right back. [42:31] Happy birthday, Chris. [42:32] Up next, Patriots and Plotters with Leland Vittert and Bill O'Reilly. [42:50] A very different look at the American Revolution as we head into the 250th anniversary of America's [42:57] founding starts right now.