IN FULL: Collin Gosselin exposes mom Kate's 'abuse' in shock new claims — The US Sun

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: Hi Colin, thanks for speaking to us. It's been a while since we spoke when you bravely opened up about some of the abuse you suffered as a child during the time you filmed the reality show Kate Plus Eight and the son wrote the really awful story about how your mother Kate Gosling zip-tied your hands and feet together when you were just 11. Now you've written a new book In the Shadow of Eight which explores this and other traumatic times in your life in heartbreaking detail. It's a really amazing book and do you want to tell us what were the main reasons for you deciding to write [00:00:35] Speaker 2: this memoir now? Well I always knew at a young age that something in my life wasn't quite normal and that there were things that I don't know what the feeling was but I felt that I would one day want to talk about these things and share my story and I just think at about a year and a half ago I just had this like I just felt like it was the time I was like is now the time to speak up there are things that need to be talked about and I feel like I'm in the right mindset I've healed a lot from a lot of what I've gone through and now I want to kind of open that can of worms back up and tell my story. And looking [00:01:15] Speaker 1: back what was the single hardest memory or chapter to write about? There are there are so many there's so many [00:01:24] Speaker 2: memories that I had to kind of dig up that I had almost buried in a way that I did kind of rehashed. I'd say one of the hardest was the day that I spent in the room where my mom had zip tied me and that was the day that she had had enough of me and sent me away. Was there a particular memory or incident that [00:01:47] Speaker 1: you debated keeping private but ultimately decided no I need to tell my full truth here? [00:01:54] Speaker 2: My one thing going into this book was that even though I'd have to share I'd have to be so vulnerable which sometimes I hate doing frankly even though I'd have to be so vulnerable and share so many emotions and just so many intimate things my my one deal to myself going into this was that I would hold nothing back and even if it was embarrassing even if it was hard to talk about or hard to think about to write about it my deal with myself was that everything was to be put out there. I wanted it all I wanted I want the reader to feel what emotions a young child can feel when these things are done to [00:02:31] Speaker 1: them and what felt the most important to you to finally put on the record regarding your relationship with your mother? [00:02:39] Speaker 2: Just in general telling my story and having having no reservations and just putting it all out there um I think that enough was enough said to her and um needs to be done so. [00:02:55] Speaker 1: So let's talk about your childhood bedroom if we can call it that. I think you describe it as a holding cell in the book. You were kept isolated and locked away. Describe that room for us. [00:03:07] Speaker 2: In the back corner of this unfinished basement she had put studs walls drywall up all that good stuff and had it completely closed in. There was a small little window in the corner it barely let any light in and the crazy part about this room is it was quite literally built on the old uh john and k plus a interview set so that corner of the basement was previously a set dropped into the corner there with the cameras and that whole thing was closed off and made a room and it had two locks on the outside one of them a bolt lock and it had two cameras inside one facing the door one facing my bed so I was constantly watched my mattress actually not a bed um I so I was I was constantly under [00:03:53] Speaker 1: camera supervision. And what was the psychological weight of that of having to be locked away from siblings who you can hear having fun upstairs of having to ask through a camera just to be allowed to use the bathroom and sometimes being ignored. It was I mean it was just hard for me to [00:04:15] Speaker 2: really understand any of it as a kid. The biggest part was that they had each other and I had myself and I was alone and no company and when you're alone with your thoughts especially as a young child being put through all those things it really can get dark very fast. [00:04:35] Speaker 1: Yeah it must have been incredibly isolated so what were the ages that you spent with that basement [00:04:40] Speaker 2: room as your bedroom? Uh I don't remember exactly when it was constructed but it was a it was around the time I was pulled out of school after the whole uh you know raising my hand to my teacher and um not physically raising my hand but raising a flag to the teacher and to CYS and then she was like crap I need to pull him out of school and that's when she decided I couldn't room with my sibling with my brothers anymore and everything had to be done separately and it had to be like a strict program of isolation. [00:05:14] Speaker 1: And you feel in hindsight that this was punishment for you because you'd raised a concern to your teachers about how she was physically abusing you. You know it was it was a combination of many things [00:05:26] Speaker 2: it wasn't pinpointed to one thing it was it was starting to tell people what was going on in my home and that I was being injured and being exploited and being forced to film it was me not wanting to film it was it was a bunch of things I mean so many things I did uh that my mom just couldn't let get out there um so these things built up over time she realized I wasn't going to film and there was nothing she could do to coerce me into filming and she realized that I was not going to stay quiet about what she was doing to me and that my teachers found out and then quickly I think she saw this very well kept secret and very well manicured family image she saw it quickly it was going to quickly [00:06:16] Speaker 1: fall apart and I was the biggest threat to that. And I think you can tell reading the book the you know the it really do you feel like you're with you in the basement the it really brings the reader in and to feel how you were feeling in in these terrible moments um so at some point you decide to run away you climb through the little window in your basement room and run down the road only to realize you've got nowhere to go looking back at that boy standing alone on the road what what was the most terrifying [00:06:49] Speaker 2: realization in that moment. The scariest part was that my mom knew the neighbors and the neighbors knew her and she had baked for them and just gotten in cahoots with everybody so the scariest part was with the few houses with the few people that were around was that either I was going to go there they would know who I am and turn me back to her and she would play it all down and take me back in or I'd have to make the choice and turn around myself and just ultimately walk back to where I'd been imprisoned. And that's [00:07:23] Speaker 1: what you ended up doing you ended up trying to sneak back in but you were you were caught weren't you? [00:07:28] Speaker 2: I ended up yeah I ended up trying to walk back quietly and slip down through the bushes into the basement window and pretend like none of it had happened because I realized there was nowhere to go and upon walking back I was unfortunately caught and my mom was alerted and she came home and it was [00:07:47] Speaker 1: not pretty. And that's when that's when things started to get even worse for you um so one of the most harrowing parts of the book I thought is when you described being zip tied by your wrists and ankles and then slammed onto the floor by Kate and locked in your little room overnight how did you survive that [00:08:07] Speaker 2: level of rejection from a parent? It's hard as a kid because even with everything my mom was doing to me even in a moment I just so badly I just wanted her to love me and I just wanted her to realize like I'm your son and I love you and you're my mom and I know I don't want to be a part of this whole thing but like but I'm I'm still your kid like I don't it's as a young kid I knew that my value shouldn't be measured up in how much I can perform and I wanted my mom to see that but no matter how hard I tried no matter how much I just wanted her to love me as her son and not for what I could do for her I couldn't even get that and so many times where she's hugging me and pretending like oh I I love you I just love you know when you're good Colin or whatever she should say which means when I would perform uh a lot of that most of that's on camera so I just never knew if that was real if that love was real and like I said it's hard because she's doing all these things to me and I still love her and I still want her to love me and I mean that's got to be the hardest thing to to tangle with you [00:09:22] Speaker 1: know yeah 100% and that they go back to that actual night when you're you're locked in the room and you're in quite a lot of pain because you put these tight ties on your hands and wrists like tell us what pain you were going through and how long you were left there and what was going through your mind [00:09:44] Speaker 2: well the physical pain hurt the literally like there was burning in my wrists and ankles but I don't think any of that compared to what I felt emotionally because for the first time ever I I felt like just a discarded piece of garbage I mean I was tied up thrown in there she picked me up and and dropped me on the ground um I probably weighed well under 100 pounds and she just kind of threw me around like I was this object to be just didn't matter anymore I left I had made numerous attempts to tell people about what was going on to get the real thing out there and I and I just felt this weight in the air that was like she's done with me she's over it and I think I knew before I knew I think I knew before it happened that she was just gonna send me away I kind of had this feeling that there were so many times I tried to get that out there and she was over it and I think even even with the physical pain I was in that day in the room the emotional awareness I had at the time to say like I'm nothing I'm being discarded that really hurt yeah no child should ever be treated like that [00:10:58] Speaker 1: it is it's really heartbreaking and I think you say in that section of the book as well that you can still hear some of the terrible things that kate said to you at that time when you were just 11 can you share with us some of that verbal abuse and what emotional scars that has left you with yeah I was to sum it [00:11:21] Speaker 2: up I was I was worthless and I was a burden to our family and my how I felt about not wanting to film and not wanting to be a part of her whole process it was my fault and the show was I guess in my mom's eyes the way that it was it was it was our family I mean I screw the family dynamic the show was our family to her and so in other words I was I was worthless I was a burden to our family for not wanting to be a part of that and she loved to tell me how much of a problem I was in her family and how much how how much I took away took away from my siblings by expressing very valid emotions that a child would feel in this situation but to her it wasn't it wasn't a child speaking out against an unhealthy scenario it was me ruining our family so I was told time and time again on on the daily how much of a burden I was to our family and how worthless I was and how much of a problem I was and I was that I was troubled and [00:12:31] Speaker 1: that I was wrong in every way for feeling the way I did and as it took you a while to to unlearn those [00:12:38] Speaker 2: words if that were drilled into your head as a child well the the the hardest part was the first two years in fair amount with no no family no anybody the hardest part was having to take everything I'd heard my mom tell me for the past years and years on years and having to sit and let it replay in my head and almost believe it um and it wasn't until I I finally came home it wasn't until I was back with my dad and then I got to meet colleen who became who still is a very substantial she's my mom um it wasn't until then meeting her letting my guard down and and opening up my heart to her and trusting her and seeing how much she showed up for me time and time again it wasn't until then that I realized that I was able to to shake all the things my mom had told me and obviously to this day I I disregard anything she has to say publicly or whatever because I have colleen in my corner and I I've I've many many families uh many family friends etc that are there for me and that show up for me and they believe in in the mission that I that I stand behind and so yeah sure for a long time I would just let those words replay in my head and I almost believe them as a as a young kid um but like I said I have many people that show up time and time again for me and that love me unconditionally and I think with all that the good outweighs the bad another tremendously traumatic [00:14:23] Speaker 1: part of the book is when you're 11 years old it's shortly after you've run away and the emts come to your home and strap you to a gurney I mean I just can't imagine that how how terrifying that must be for an 11 year old tell us what happened then and what was going through your head at that time [00:14:40] Speaker 2: well there was like I had two conflicting um two conflicting thoughts that day the first one was I'm scared because I feel like something's about to happen and I feel like I'm about to be just off in the wind somewhere um and and the second was that I mean I was at the while I was scared and while I was afraid to leave my siblings and afraid to of the unknown uh part of me was relieved that I was being put anywhere but the back in that room um so it was it was a scary day I mean at 11 years old having those two thoughts of where am I going and what's happening and at the same time thinking I'm actually kind of weirdly relieved that I'm not being locked back up um it was yeah that was definitely a difficult thought process to have at a young age and to have to be having those thoughts [00:15:36] Speaker 1: that day yeah and by your descriptions it sounds like a very Fairmont was a very stark and strict place for so for for you to for that to be a better than your actual home that says a lot about the conditions you were living in um but tell me about Fairmont tell me about how you were over medicated there how um they used restrain on you often for barely barely barely anything that you've done [00:16:05] Speaker 2: yeah um you know it is weird there was such a there was a a strange dynamic there because while Fairmont was horrible it was oddly nice to be able to use the bathroom on my own without having to speak through a camera or you know just simple things like that I remember that was the first thing I thought wow like this is nice I can have access to my own clothes I can go use the restroom um I can be around other kids even if they weren't the most pleasant um I had that interaction that a child should have and um that was that was nice while it lasted but then quickly it became um why am I here going on a month two months three months 10 months 15 months 20 months plus 20 months plus and it became very scary because I realized watching all these kids come in and leave I realized something wasn't quite right and then I had to take action which is what I eventually did with a letter um but any any attempt to get any answers or ask questions or any distress that came from me saying why am I here and what's the next step and do I have a treatment plan I mean other kids had treatment plans where was mine um any attempt at to find to find any truth or any answers um were met with medications and um I was ultimately almost like subdued every single time and just put put down and put away um so it was this never-ending loop of I try to ask a question on what's going on and it's not answered and I'm quieted [00:17:56] Speaker 1: which is it's scary and that was going to be one of my other questions actually it your dad um found 14 reports um of poor treatment towards you um as a child that had been registered with um child services in Pennsylvania all of those were found to be unfounded how how did the child welfare welfare system fail you and what reform is needed to stop this happening to children again [00:18:27] Speaker 2: well I haven't looked into many of those reports yet so I won't speak too much on them um but what I will say is that little little details can help a lot especially in like the child services industry um I'll tell you one detail that I think could have saved a lot and um it's that one the one day I remember very very very uh intricately was that when CYS came to my house to speak with me first thing was that my mom was standing right outside the door um from behind the CYS worker looking at me and I I think there was like a failure to to take the proper uh take the proper routes to talk to me completely individually um so I think a little thing like that if I had been at the home somewhere with just this just the child services worker or if they had found a more secure location anything like that I mean it's a little detail that that day I chose not to speak up because my mom was standing right there and I knew that if I wasn't going to be taken out of the home after that meeting that and if I had said anything and then not being promised to be taken away by the what you know with child services that my day would be hell that who knows the rest of my life would be hell you know I I don't know so I think little details like that and ensuring that when a child talks to work or that they have full exclusivity I mean that's what that's one small difference that would make a big change um it's it's stuff like that and and it didn't it didn't have to take CYS coming to the house for something to be done because like I said many adults saw things I mean there was so much to see there was the emotions the way my mom would pull me to the side of the camera crew and get in my face I mean there were there were so many things uh a lot of warning signs that were just [00:20:35] Speaker 1: disregarded yeah I remember one part of the book that's jumping out at me is and the escape room episode where you make a little comment saying oh I should be good at this game because my room is like my room and you got immediately cut out of filming and you weren't allowed to film with the others that day [00:20:56] Speaker 2: were you yeah that we were doing an escape room in Florida I believe and I did I made the comment say oh this should be easy you know I have a I get locked in a room every day and I you know I thought I was being humorous um unfortunately the sad part was it's very true uh but my mom was not having it and I'm sure many other adults heard that and maybe were like hmm doesn't sound very normal um but nothing was done I was just taken back to the house and if you go watch that episode back I'm not in it uh they're doing the escape room my siblings and my mom and I'm not there have you personally ever received any money for the work that you did on that show well I did some digging because I wanted to find out a little more about something and I found core documentation where I guess me and my siblings had a collective trust put together a money a small amount of like I don't know if it's royalties or percentages from the show and I just was curious about something but my mom has taken over a hundred thousand dollars from me and my siblings collectively not just me she didn't choose just me for this one I want my siblings to watch this and no um money was taken from them as well she took money out of a trust that was for me and my siblings only and she went in accessed it took money and then admitted it in court um so hopefully down the line with with legal proceedings or something hopefully that money can be [00:22:26] Speaker 1: given back to its rightful yeah me and my siblings so if we can move back to Fairmont there's still a couple of questions I wanted to ask you about your time there um I know that your mother um she only visited you once while you were there and you were so excited for this visit you'd even made gifts for your siblings tell us about what happened at that visit and what she said to you um yeah so there was [00:23:00] Speaker 2: there was one visit to Fairmont that she ever made and it was after a little over a year that I had already been there and well let me just say this in in the in the first a little over a year that I was there there was not a phone call there was nothing um after a month she completely cut contact and then decides one day she's gonna you know walk in there and come see me after about 13 months um and it was all for about 20 minutes I had made gifts I had prepared I had taken origami paper made little animals and flowers and all kinds of stuff for my siblings and first she rejects those gifts and she's like I don't we're okay um and then on top of that for the next 20 minutes you know I'm asking like when am I coming home okay I miss you guys how's everybody doing and she's sitting there saying that I I broke our family and that my she's telling me your siblings are doing so well without you so well like they're doing great everything's going well so she's not only telling me how great they're doing but she's telling me how great they're doing without me and she's telling me that I I broke our family and that I'm I'm very deserving of my situation at the moment and being where I'm at and missing birthdays I mean I had celebrated a Christmas without my family this point birthdays everything um in which I didn't even get a phone call on either of those days um and so she's telling me that all of that I just experienced the past 13 months that's the point she was there that I had deserved it and I was very deserving of where I was at and because I ruined our family and I'm a burden to our [00:24:50] Speaker 1: have you ever wondered why your mother didn't just ask John to take you in rather than putting you [00:25:10] Speaker 2: it through all this trauma in the institution I uh I'm sorry I can't help but laugh at that it's uh it's I've been asked that before that's a that's a great question by the way um if my mom would have said hey hey John um I'm sending Colin to go live with you at that point I'd I'd been trying to tell my dad what was going on but visitations were cut off I'd gone to school I told teachers and I was just going to tell everybody until somebody finally decided that they would help me and do something about what I was telling them um and so my mom knew that the second if I was placed that I mean it would have all came crumbling down the whole you know kingdom that she had built and so I can tell you that thought didn't even cross her mind I mean she would she would have never sat her this whole thing she had built she would never sat any of that down and say hey like I'm gonna let you go live with your father like that would have never happened I mean because first she was she was America's best mom doing it all on her own with you know four million nannies but all on her own um so she couldn't turn to her her ex-husband who was this horrible guy in the media um that that could never happen that would have made her look horrible and then on top of that him me telling him everything that had been happening in the home for the past couple of years uh it would not have been pretty so ultimately her only option was to put me somewhere where I would be quiet and not be not have access to anybody else uh to tell them what was going on and uh yeah so [00:27:04] Speaker 1: do you want your mother to read your book and if so how do you think she might react [00:27:13] Speaker 2: I you know a part of me thinks that if she read it and understood the emotions because I I really like I said I really get into the emotions that I feel at all stages of my life I think if she understood those emotions part of me could hope that maybe that would make her feel something or make her realize something um but at the same time I I don't think she'll read it um because she was very quick to to say it was it's a book full of lies [00:27:50] Speaker 1: um so yeah and how about your how about your siblings do you do you think they'll read the book and what kind of realization or message do you hope they take away from reading your side of the story [00:28:06] Speaker 2: well I think it's kind of funny because she said she wanted to sue me for defamation which means she's claiming she's saying that what is in the book is false um and she's made excuses to why she's not going to do that um but I think it'll be interesting if if she's told my siblings one side of the story and the book hasn't has another side but she doesn't take legal action and and my siblings do end up reading it I think maybe that it's going to raise some eyebrows and say if this is saying one thing and she's saying another thing but she won't say that it's defamation you know what's going on here but I also think that my memory is very I remember very little things and if they do go back and read through I think they'll find little memories that I that I write about in depth like little things that like I don't even think they remember like little memories of us playing outside or doing stuff and they'll say wow like this is a solid account um maybe that'll make them realize like wow there's there's some validity validity to this but they don't need to question it like that because the you know the unfortunate thing is that she's told them for so long what my mom has told them for so long what she's wanted them to believe um so they have this whole different version of reality and uh one part I do think that they would find very eye-opening is how much happened when she sent them to school every day after she pulled me out of school is the amount of the amount of pain the amount of torture I went through at the hands of my mom when they weren't even in the home and she made a very good point back then to keep a lot separate from from what they from their eyes she kept a lot hidden from what my siblings were able to see um so I think them reading this they will see the side of the story that she kept hidden from them and they'll start to dismantle the the story that she's been feeding them for years I mean it's just it's crazy because we're the same age my siblings my age and many car aren't much older how much she was putting in my head and how much I struggled to believe is this real like I mean she was doing the same thing to them she was manipulating her children who were young to believe what she wanted them to believe and playing this game of triangulation and unfortunately in households like this with parents that are abusive they play this game of triangulation and they pit their children against each other and it's doing that to your own kids I mean [00:30:55] Speaker 1: yeah it's horrendous and do you think your siblings are still under her influence and maybe still involved in an abuse in she may still be abusive to them I you know the unfortunate thing [00:31:11] Speaker 2: is when you spend when you spend your whole life when you spend your whole life being indoctrinated with what one parent is telling you and you you don't I mean you live a life inside we were only ever inside that home and we had like no freedoms as kids and like it was just so easy to for my mom to be the only person to tell us anything and that's the only thing you could believe and so years and years and years of being practically indoctrinated by a narcissist um they know how to tell you what they want to tell you and even as adults even I mean I'm 22 so myself you know even at 22 years old and and 26 years old um actually any car 27 now yeah wow um uh so even even at this age uh when you're fed these things for years and years I mean it's easy to believe that they're still under the the impression [00:32:19] Speaker 1: of what she's told them for years yeah you you write about the the the first and last time you saw your siblings after you left the institution and went to live with your dad you all went to an amusement arcade um tell us about that meeting and why did that end up being the last time you saw your [00:32:37] Speaker 2: siblings so yeah the last time my siblings and I saw each other was we had gone to this arcade in our hometown and it was like a court order visit and I mean it had been like three or so years at this point since I last seen them so um it's hard to that was that was a very hard uh day to relive because I had to really sit and then I was sitting and living that memory again and then I was thinking about how I felt about that being the last time that I saw them and it was just it was crazy because although it was court ordered that day felt so it just felt so normal and it felt like wow like what if this was how our entire childhood was was just us playing games in an arcade being kids being with no cameras and so it was uh yeah I mean I remember that day like like the back of my hand and it was it was nice that it was a normal day but it's just unfortunate that we didn't get more normal days to just be kids and have fun and why did you not why were you not allowed to meet up again after that visit um you know I'm not I'm not sure I mean there were no other there were no further visits that were like court mandated or anything like that um and I I think it was weird that that one was and it kind of added this weird pressure um but right after that they went right back home and it was it was just easy for my mom to tell them that after after everything I was put through on the daily because of me not wanting to film it was easy for her to say like oh like she would literally do this in front of them hey like look at your brother look at him like he's troubled and I would be withdrawn and like emotionally damaged and just sad I mean no one would be happy living the daily life I was living and so she would use this as leverage and tell them that I was troubled and that I had issues and all these things and so after yeah I mean after that day it was right back to her feeding them [00:34:49] Speaker 1: the same stories and unfortunately we never got to see each other again so have you heard any when was the last time you spoke to your mother or a sibling have you have you heard from any of them in any way since news of the book came out um no I I haven't I haven't heard anything uh with like [00:35:12] Speaker 2: the with the announcement of my book or anything or since it came out um nothing yet um and I say yet because I feel that there are a lot of stones to be unturned uh in the next for a while there's a lot in this book that will be uprooted and so I say yeah because I am hopeful that with them I I hope that they find something in there that they're like wow it's not quite that's not quite what I was told by you know who so um yeah and you send a message of love to your [00:35:53] Speaker 1: siblings in the book I mean what are your hopes I do what's your hopes moving forward do you hope one day that you can all sit down and talk about all this and be siblings I I think like any [00:36:07] Speaker 2: situation like this where the parent you know estranges siblings from each other or like triangulate like puts puts them against each other or like tells one side this and the other side that I think obviously the biggest thing is miscommunication and unfortunately we've never had the opportunity to sit down and communicate on any of this or talk about any of this um it was always like one side's told this and the other side is told this and so I do think with communication and with time and with growing and healing and growing older I think we'll realize that you know all we really have is each other and having siblings and this many it's it's a very important thing and um I can hope that they see that and hopefully when they're not in her home or you know influenced by her on the daily I hope that they can do their own research I always say this I've done a lot of research um I've dug into everything and I now have so much documentation and so many receipts um to back the claims of the things I've been saying about my mom but I I want my siblings to do the same do your research read into the money that she took from from you guys if you're watching that she did she took a lot of money from us um and do your research because it's all out there and you will find a lot that is not consistent with the story she's been given you so and what about your mother [00:37:36] Speaker 1: I mean I think you've spoke to me before about how you kind of feel sorry for Kate despite what she's done where do you why where do your feelings on your mother stand now will there ever be a reconciliation there [00:37:52] Speaker 2: I you know um I don't know I I've said with with uh reconciliation comes accountability on her part and she's never been somebody to take accountability and she's never been somebody to kind of sit her ego down and say like I may have messed up may have done this wrong um may have not done what was best for my children even though I've that's what I wanted people to believe for so long and that's what her whole image was built on um but with that possible future reconciliation there's a lot of accountability that has to be taken on her part you know fortunately I've done my homework and I've found so much to back up what I'm saying which it's horrible that any child should have to feel like they need to bring receipts to back up the traumas that they're talking about but fortunately I have those things um and even with the proof I do not feel that my mom will be the one that to admit her wrongdoings [00:39:02] Speaker 1: so one of the kind of more hopeful parts of the book is when you you have this dream to enlist in the marines and you pass the requirements gets and you get sent to paris island for training and that was a huge achievement for you given that you'd missed so much childhood so much education you weren't schooled in the institution at all were you um so tell us about that dream and ultimately how [00:39:27] Speaker 2: it ended after high school I only had my heart set on one thing and that was I wanted to become a United States Marine and I wanted to be a protector and be the person to basically I wanted to be the person that I would have needed as a kid that would step in and just be the one to say no and and to be the protector and you know that that the the warrior mindset and and all that it just really drew me to the Marine Corps and on top of that I was told number one was you know the camaraderie of of Marines and like the brotherhood is just something completely exceptional and I was really drawn to that because I felt that I was obviously with with growing up very separate of my siblings I really longed for that sibling bond again uh with my with my fellow recruits and so that dream being taken from me uh all because of an instagram post uh where my mom claimed I had like autism and bipolar and I mean the list goes on uh that that broke my heart it did and I cried a lot of tears on Paris Island and sweat a lot of sweat and bled and I mean put my heart into that training into becoming somebody better and stronger for my younger self um so I was crushed and not only that I was I was a week away from going to the crucible and graduating so on top of that I'd spent all that time and I was right there I was right on the finish line um but you know I uh for a long time for a long time after I came home after that whole thing I was crushed and I had no hope to move forward or to keep pushing um but I picked myself back up and I realized that there's a there's a there's a bigger mission out there and that's what I'm doing now today and nothing will ever take that hope for me again and I will not be deterred and I stand when I'm behind and it's a very important [00:41:45] Speaker 1: message so you know I found that hope somewhere else and do you think you'll ever try to do you think you'll ever try to rejoin the military right now I'm in school and I'm I'm getting my bachelor's degree [00:41:59] Speaker 2: and everything's going well and uh I can hope that with having that education that I can take the officer route of things and become an officer in the marines and so that is as of now that is part of it's part of the plan so that'd be really nice but as as of right now I have there's there's a lot of a lot of big dreams so a lot of big things to [00:42:27] Speaker 1: come amazing and how you you mentioned the post your mom made claiming that you had all these mental health problems how important for you was it to get the psych evaluation which states you have no none of these problems out there in the book in black and white well I uh going into it I was like [00:42:53] Speaker 2: I think I might have literally said this to my dad I was like I mean obviously I don't I don't have anything um I think you know uh and I was like I'm literally just doing this because once it's on paper um it was just like it wasn't a big surprise to me when I got the paperback and it was like oh there's you know and everything is non-inclusive I was like okay I I knew that I'm glad it's on paper uh so I can you know put that out there um that was it was a very important thing to do it was almost like it was almost like I was clearing my name um of things that I knew I didn't have uh so I mean it was that I was very nice I mean it said I I went there you know anybody can go get a psych eval done right and they're like just evaluate evaluate me in general but I went there with a list of six diagnoses and I was like I like please test for these and all others and so like there was like he was like looking for stuff right so um not only were these six diagnoses ruled out but it says any or any further um diagnostic whatever you know so it was just very done set in stone and I'm [00:44:11] Speaker 1: just glad that that's that's out there yeah but what is it like to then look back at all those years you were medicated and institutionalized for conditions you never had does that make you angry [00:44:26] Speaker 2: looking back I mean there were so many medications I was put on I mean just fed pills and I was in like a zombified state all the time and to look back knowing that I was thrown in all these things after getting this evaluation done which said zip nothing um I just I feel like along with the childhood that was taken from me that like my health and my emotions that I could have felt at that age they were numb they were also taken from me so many things were taken not just not just the memories and the normalcy of a of a fun normal childhood but those weren't the only things taken my emotions were taken from me because I was I was numb all the time [00:45:18] Speaker 1: I couldn't even feel anything if I wanted to one question about steve the bodyguard um he you mentioned him in the book he was quite a guy he was quite a um a fairly large presence in the house as you were growing up um your mother only fairly recently kate went public that she was in a relationship with steve the bodyguard but did you have any suspicions of your mom that your mother was [00:45:45] Speaker 2: dating him when you were a child oh when when that whole public relationship came out I was I was just like yep called it uh haha I was waiting for the day that that became a public thing because for many years it was a very well kept secret so uh no surprises there it was like watching a movie and knowing what the ending is going to be like and then it happens you're like yep I knew it called it um so yeah I I was I was not surprised I was like wow yeah it's I mean the funny part was that she goes yeah we've been together for two years and I'm like oh two years I mean yeah two years two years in in uh in dog years so what's that like 14 years [00:46:35] Speaker 1: so did you I mean did you ever catch them being modern friends when you were when you were younger [00:46:41] Speaker 2: yeah they were very very it was just weird like in front of as a kid it's just like ill because they were like flirty and like banter and like playful arguing I mean it was just weird to see but he was with us all the time not even on vacation I mean everywhere everywhere all the time and even as a kid you understand that that dynamic is not normal of a you know a somebody and their employee um and you know that was not a normal dynamic so even as a kid I could see that and I was like this is you know [00:47:17] Speaker 1: something's a little off here okay let's talk about the present for a little bit you're currently in special forces tell us about that experience and what drove you to do that show well I think the [00:47:30] Speaker 2: last time we talked I think you mentioned it to me and I was like yeah that'd be so cool to go on special force as well um it was a couple years ago um it was a absolutely one of the most amazing experiences of my lifetime um number one that the people I was with the group phenomenal group I love them all to death we're very close we have a group chat um I just admire everybody who was out there and um just amazing amazing people and we really got close and went on this crazy fun nasty wet fun adventure together so uh it was it was really great yeah it was I mean I just I feel like I grew so much uh so much growth so much healing uh I I opened up I became vulnerable and I talked about my emotions with people I'd met just days prior sitting on a cot in the middle of the jungle I mean that was [00:48:31] Speaker 1: that's therapy right there that was it was amazing and who who would you say you bonded with most um out [00:48:37] Speaker 2: of the cast we were all so close but like you know right away like me and ruby were really close and I mean then I got close with alexia and you know you know just I mean everybody and then max like max was like the second I was the youngest and he was a couple years old he's a couple years older than me and we were just like brothers we're like oh like it feels like we're playing call of duty in real life in the jungle like just young guys you know like so it's just funny like just two young kids messing around but uh um all of them seriously everybody I was close with I mean Candice like everybody we were all very very close I I don't even want to say like every I was close with all of them I mean we all had so many good moments and we had like group therapy where we'd sit on our cots and just all talk about like the hardest things we ever talked about like we really got into it and it was just it was very healing um experience of a lifetime for sure oh amazing and it was shot in [00:49:40] Speaker 1: the Malaysian jungle what was the most difficult part of that environment uh the hardest part about [00:49:46] Speaker 2: being in in a jungle out in Malaysia was probably like I mean just the combination of the humidity and then being wet all the time and then being covered in mud and then we had we all had these contact rashes so like I woke up one morning and there was on my face neck back arms back of my hands everything um like these red dots all over my body um and you know you're there's bugs by you I mean there's so many parts of that environment that you're like if I make it out of here without getting bit by a snake then I will 100% be stronger and I will probably be more comfortable when I go camping you know so there's just a lot there to help you to grow and overcome that uncomfortable environment yeah [00:50:36] Speaker 1: and was it important for you to do it after what happened in the marine training for you yes so it was [00:50:44] Speaker 2: you know a part of me was like if I if I do this and come out on top like I'm not really gonna feel fulfilled like it's not gonna feel like the same thing like graduating boot camp it's not I'm not gonna feel that redemption um but the very similar dynamic uh maybe not the exact same thing but I will say that there are a lot of parallels and I do feel that pushing myself through a challenge like that did feel it felt very healing and it felt like I was getting a part back that I had missed out on with you know with not graduating boot camp so yeah I gave myself that slack and I said you know this I'm pushing somewhere in the right direction and so I feel proud of myself and what are your plans for [00:51:37] Speaker 1: the future now you mentioned that you're still you're still in college um working on your degree um are you looking to continue being a public figure are you going to do more tv shows I you know there's [00:51:50] Speaker 2: this thing is everybody's like oh like you know he didn't want to be on tv as a kid why is he going to tv now and I and the dynamic there is completely different because being forced on tv as a kid and then choosing to come back to it and make show who you are as an adult and show your heart to people I mean that's a completely different thing um so I I do feel that I want to continue to put have my message being put out there and in whatever way I have to do that whether it's being on tv or speaking across the country or whatever I I want to continue to spread this message as far as it can possibly go and I want people to understand the weight and the importance of of my message and I want them to feel what's on my heart and so yeah I do feel I and you know a part of me you know along with that I I want to show people who I am as an adult a lot of people watch me as a kid and um I just have a lot of love to give and I want people to see that part of me um so yeah I do plan to continue and you know in the meantime I'll be sitting here in my dorm room chugging away at college so do you want to show us um the cover of your book yes I do have it right here [00:53:06] Speaker 1: so and tell us the story behind that that front cover image well this is actually a paparazzi photo [00:53:16] Speaker 2: you can see it um and it was obviously taken out in public but I I think there's so much weight in this photo because not only I mean in this moment she's trying to tell me like shh be quiet but I mean it's in the shadow of a and a lot of stuff happened in the shadow of filming Johnny K plus eight and K plus eight so this message is very telling to what you're gonna what you can expect to read in my that more because a lot of it every day it was Colin be quiet and every day it was a hand over my mouth and finally now in the present there's no longer a hand over my mouth and now these things now I get to talk about what happened what actually happened