How do we explain the urgency of climate change? — Meet The Press — NBC News

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: No offense to everybody else here, but we're going to start with the scientist. Dr. Marvel, I think the question here is how do you explain the urgency to Americans, right? That has been, I think, the challenge, and I think it came through during the Michael Bloomberg interview. Explain the urgency of what we're facing. [00:00:19] Speaker 2: Oh, my gosh. I wish I knew. I wish I had a good answer for this, because as scientists, what we want to do, what we're always tempted to do, is show more data and more graphs, like there's going to be some magic equation that's going to convince everybody, and there isn't. You know, I don't think that a lot of the reluctance to accept climate change, I don't really think that's about the science. I think that's about values. I think that's about the sort of deep story of how people see themselves. So I think it's really important for scientists to go out in communities, engage with what's important to people in communities. [00:00:54] Speaker 1: It feels overwhelming. The science feels overwhelming. I'll be honest. It just does. Is there a way of figuring out how to prioritize the challenge? [00:01:03] Speaker 2: I mean, that's the thing. It is overwhelming, because we are talking about something that affects the planet that we live on. We're talking about global warming, but we're also talking about changes to rainfall patterns, changes to extreme events like heat waves and floods and droughts and hurricanes. So it should feel overwhelming, because it is overwhelming, I think. [00:01:25] Speaker 1: And you've traveled the globe for us to try to show us what's happening, not just say what's happening, show us, and we're doing our best to show pictures. It's a challenge. [00:01:34] Speaker 3: And that's important, because I always liken climate change to cancer. They're both such huge issues. They're really hard to get your head wrapped around it, if you will. But if you look at pictures, take a trip to Glacier National Park out in Montana. In 1850, when the Industrial Revolution started and we started burning coal and sending greenhouse gases in the air, there were 150 glaciers in that national park. Today, there are 26, and they're in danger of losing those 26. They're really threatened. If you look at things that we just know are happening around us, growing zones are moving north, fish are migrating north to get to colder waters. We're seeing changes here. That's what convinces people that it's happening. And I think the reason why we're seeing more people believe in it today is because we're now starting to live climate change in real time in the United States. [00:02:26] Speaker 1: Well, speaking of that real time, I think it's the financial impact that maybe will start sparking things. The National Climate Assessment, it said the following. With continued growth in emissions at historic rates, annual losses in some economic sectors are projected to reach hundreds of billions of dollars by the end of the century, more than the current gross domestic products of many U.S. states. And just to put a finer point on this, look at this year. These are just headlines quickly. This year alone, disaster, the cost of three disasters, Hurricane Michael, $25 billion. Insurance claims for the California fires were up to $9 billion, $50 billion for Hurricane Florence. [00:03:01] Speaker 4: Craig Fugate, can you convince people with dollars and cents? I don't know if you're going to convince them with dollars and cents, but I think you can convince them with just a sheer frequency of the events that are occurring. I mean, think about it. Every time they say this is a record-setting event, almost all of our practices of how we prepare for disasters is looking at the past to prepare for the future. It's not working. And look at all the money we're spending. And the thing I like to remind people, when FEMA's spending money, that's for uninsured losses. We've seen one of the largest transfers in the last 20 years from private insurance to federal programs like FEMA, HUD, the National Flood Insurance Program. This is a lot of organizations like the Pew Charitable Trust is actually looking at the policy of why are we growing disaster risk in the face of climate change with policies that incentivize growth. But we're still providing flood insurance for people who are building a flood zone. We shouldn't be doing that. And we just reauthorized it and punted again. There's a lot of things we need to do with flood insurance. I have one simple answer. Why don't we stop writing flood insurance for people in flood zones and let the private sector insure it? And if they don't, why are the public insuring it? All right. [00:04:05] Speaker 1: So dollars and cents won't do it. What about national security, Michelle Flournoy? [00:04:08] Speaker 5: Well, it's interesting because I think there is a very strong consensus in the U.S. military and in the national security community that climate change is real. This is a sort of pragmatic, clear-eyed view. And for the military, they see this as leading to a change in their mission, more humanitarian assistance, disaster relief missions abroad and at home. They see the melting of the ice cap in the Arctic. That's going to open up an area of strategic competition with both Russia and China. [00:04:38] Speaker 1: This pausing, I don't want to gloss over that. So here we are worried about what the melting ice caps are going to do to our life. Meanwhile, it's going to become a military fight. [00:04:48] Speaker 5: Absolutely. There's going to be new channels of commerce. And China and Russia have already kind of staked claims and made it very clear they intend to contest the space. But it's also an infrastructure problem for the military. More than half of U.S. military bases and bases overseas are estimated to be severely impacted by climate change, either severe weather and or flooding. That's our ability to project power overseas. That's our ability to operate our U.S. military. Fifty percent of the facilities are going to be affected. [00:05:19] Speaker 1: And we would have to read it. [00:05:20] Speaker 4: Think about the cost of defense that it is today. Look at Tyndall Air Force Base and got hit by, you know, Michael, you had F-22s and hangers that were destroyed. And think how few of those we have. [00:05:30] Speaker 1: All right. As you can see here, I was trying to make a point here. Can the economy do it? Can national security do it? Maybe the state of Florida can do it. The most important state in presidential politics, Carlos Corbello, if Floridians change their mindset on this, it may force the country. I want to put in a few stats from that national climate assessment. There's a one in 20 chance that nearly half a billion dollars in property value in the state of Florida will be under sea level before the end of this century. And then I got to play for you this. This is our hometown, not just your hometown, mine too, Miami. What a University of Miami jailist had to say about this. Take a listen. [00:06:06] Speaker 6: I think somewhere later in this century, Miami, as we know, it's going to be unlivable. So in reality, in South Florida, we're just going to be leaving. We don't have the problem. You up in Orlando, you better set aside your groundwater resources and you better plan for us. You really better plan because we are coming. [00:06:27] Speaker 7: Does Florida change the country's mindset on this? It can because it's where the effects of climate change are most evident. So we get tidal flooding in South Florida. In the Florida Keys, we get tidal flooding. Explain what that is. So king tide comes, meaning lunar cycle. The tide is the strongest and our roads literally flood. Just once a month. That's right. No rain, no anything. That's okay. I just want to remind people what this day is. Big threat to our drinking water supply. The Everglades houses all of the water for South Florida. As the salt water comes in, it threatens that drinking water supply. Ocean acidification, as we get higher carbon dioxide content in the ocean, that kills our reefs, which, of course, reefs is essential to ocean ecosystems. So I think the point Anne made is so important. We need to stop covering the debate and start covering the story so that people see that this is real and so that politicians take a more pragmatic approach and find solutions that are actually achievable. [00:07:27] Speaker 3: And if you think those high tides bother you once a month, wait until they happen every day. And that's what the reports say. If we don't do something about cutting our greenhouse gas emissions, that's going to happen. And it's not just going to happen in Miami. It's going to happen in Virginia, in Newport News and where the naval bases are. And they're already dealing with that high tide flooding. And it's going to affect places like New York and Boston and Cape Cod and New Orleans. We're going to have big problems. [00:07:55] Speaker 2: I was about to say, I live in New York, and the subway is projected to flood every five years by the middle of the century and every year by the end of the century. I don't want the subway to flood. You think it's miserable now, right? [00:08:08] Speaker 4: I mean, this goes back to 2012. Her superstorm Sandy makes landfall. We're flying up to go see Governor Christie. And President Obama turns to me and says, Craig, the debate about climate change is over. We have to start talking about adaptation. And this is what's really hard. We've built so much infrastructure with lifespans and financing over the span. We always thought this was going to be something 50 years away. It's now. And we haven't built for this. And the change and the build for it, while we're still denying it, we're losing. [00:08:38] Speaker 1: What's the displacement of Americans? How many millions of Americans right now live basically in an area that could be unlivable in 50 years? We're talking millions, right, Dr. Marley? [00:08:49] Speaker 2: Many, many. Because the thing is, it's not just Florida. It's not just coastal communities. Warm air holds more water vapor. And so that means even if you live in the Midwest, you're going to see increased downpours. The rain is really going to dump them. [00:09:03] Speaker 7: And for agriculture, the consequences are significant. [00:09:05] Speaker 5: And if you look globally, you know, we are a pretty strong economy. We're a very powerful nation. Think of all the countries that are going to experience massive population movements and have no wherewithal whatsoever to deal with that kind of pressure and the instability and conflict that that can be. [00:09:22] Speaker 1: Okay. Do you see how overwhelming this feels? And that's why, I guess, Dr. Marley, let me ask, what's the one thing we could do right now? I mean, that's what this, I think everybody wants to say, give me one thing. [00:09:31] Speaker 2: So, the thing that I actually find kind of perversely comforting is the fact that we know exactly what's causing this. Can you imagine if this were a natural cycle that we didn't have any control over? But we know exactly what's causing this. It's us. It's greenhouse gas emissions that we are putting in the atmosphere. And as a scientist, I can tell you, let's not do that anymore. [00:09:53] Speaker 1: So, really, it's just about those guys. [00:09:55] Speaker 2: About these guys. [00:09:56] Speaker 7: It's about no offense. Well, yeah, and I'm not a scientist. That's a phrase that's been used in the past by politicians. But I do know this. There are two halves to this, right? Mitigation, which means we reduce carbon dioxide emissions and adaptation, where I think we're starting to make some progress in the Congress. Investments in coastal infrastructure that will protect properties and will protect people from these effects. [00:10:21] Speaker 1: All right. Well, we've done a lot on the science and a lot on the impact. Later, I want to get into sort of some practical ideas, including the carbon tax. Is that the right way to go?