Full Upton Interview: 'Troubled Waters' For The Republican Party

[0:00] Welcome back. Last week, Michigan Congressman Fred Upton, one of 10 House Republicans who [0:04] voted to impeach Donald Trump, became the fourth to announce that he's going to retire. Five more [0:10] are being primaried from the right by candidates Trump has endorsed. California's David Valadeo [0:15] is the only exception so far. After Upton announced his retirement, Trump released this statement, [0:19] writing, Upton quits. Four down, six to go. Congressman Fred Upton. Fred, good to see you. [0:26] Nice to see you. Always. Let me start with what you told my colleague, Vaughn Hilliard. You said, [0:30] this is on March 30th, not that long ago, you said that the possibility of the perception of [0:35] giving Trump a win by retiring was actually a motivator to run again, and yet you're deciding [0:43] not to run. Did you give Trump a win? No, we didn't. I don't think we did. No, [0:46] it would have been a doozy of a campaign. I would have loved it. I like campaigns. I really do. [0:51] You wanted Trump involved? You were ready to take him on? I was ready to go, but the final straw was [0:57] they redrew the district. So my hometown, my home community faces Lake Michigan. I [1:02] can actually see it across the street where I live. It's a lot of it now is with Lake Erie. [1:06] So it's literally 250 miles away, about 350,000 different voters than I had before. And so [1:15] that was the final when the judges... You test drove the campaign though. You paid [1:18] for some TV advertising. We were ready. You did seem to test drive it. We were ready. [1:22] Did you travel this new district? Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Yep. No, I did. And we would have [1:26] been welcomed in a lot of different places, but we would have had to raise, I don't know, five, [1:30] six million bucks a couple of months. I could have done that. But at the end, [1:35] you know, it's time for family. I got three grandkids now. One of them is actually saying, [1:39] there's Papa. He's two years old. He's watching right now. [1:43] I am curious what you think is going to happen to a Republican controlled Congress next year. [1:48] Don Bacon, who's a colleague of yours. He's a Republican from Omaha. He said this, [1:53] we can't have this mindset of burn the house down. We got to be a governing party when we're in the [1:57] majority. So we need people like Upton and folks like that. So other people have to step up. Look, [2:02] you regularly vote to keep the government open and you're usually in the minority. And I believe [2:06] the last time the debt ceiling was raised, I think now there's only going to be 33 members left. [2:12] Maybe even less. Who voted for it, left in Congress. I mean, [2:16] do you fear that this next house Republican majority could lead us to default? [2:22] Well, a lot depends upon what happens in November. I do believe that the house is going to flip. In [2:27] fact, I talked to Charlie Cook earlier this morning and I think he believes that as well. [2:32] The math is hard to overcome. What is going to be the margin though? Is it going to be better than [2:36] Pelosi? I think it will a little bit better than what it is today for her. But I don't think it's [2:41] going to be this wild swing knowing that we picked up a lot of seats in the last election, [2:46] despite Biden winning. So, you know, what's the over under? So that's going to make a big [2:52] determination. So a small majority, does that make it more likely if it's a smaller Republican [2:56] majority? Yeah. You think that's more trouble? More trouble, which is why then the problem [3:01] solvers caucus, I'm one of the vice chairs there, is so important as we try to have some glue or fabric [3:07] to really move forward on issues that we got to deal with, whether it be immigration, [3:11] whether it be energy, whether it be inflation, all those different, and debt ceiling obviously [3:15] is going to be an early, early test in the next Congress. You got death threats for voting for [3:19] infrastructure spending. I did. You played these voicemails. We played these voicemails. [3:22] That's why I'm here today. No, I, in some ways it is, isn't it? I mean, it made it easier to say, [3:27] I'm out. Yeah. Well, death threats, I mean, they never were like we had this, this last year, [3:32] but it was pretty crazy. And remember that was a Republican bill. I mean, literally a year ago, [3:37] this week, Governor Hogan brought a bunch of us up to his place in Annapolis. Republicans, [3:43] Democrats, Senators, Governors, House members, both sides of the aisle. We defined what infrastructure [3:48] ought to be, and we decided how to pay for it. And it passed 69 to 30 in the Senate. It was the issue [3:54] all last summer. Lindsey Graham, Trump's best friend, voted for it. So if you're getting death [3:58] threats, what's the likelihood of somebody watching what happened to you and going, yeah, forget it. [4:04] I'm not going to vote. Yeah. You know what? It's going to be a detriment getting good people [4:09] to run. It really will be because I got a school board member that lives on my street. I think he [4:13] got death threats too, just over the mask mandate. So we, we have a story out of Georgia where they [4:18] can't find anybody to be the elections person in Fulton County. Yeah, I believe it. I believe it. [4:23] It's, you know, it's, it puts you at risk, particularly when they threaten, not only you, and I'm, [4:28] I like to think I'm pretty fast, but when they threaten your spouse or your kids or whatever, [4:34] that's what really makes it frightening. Let me ask about if the Republicans are going to run [4:39] on anything. And I'm curious what you would have done. Well, Kevin McCarthy says that the [4:44] Republicans should run on an agenda this cycle. I think they should. All right. Here's what Mitch [4:48] McConnell said. If Republicans take back control of Congress after the midterms, what would be your [4:54] agenda? That is a very good question. And I'll let you know when we take it back. As a political [5:03] strategist, it's probably the right call. It's a lot easier to win an election by running against [5:07] somebody than being for anything. But isn't this what's wrong with our politics? Yeah, [5:11] you have to be for something. And I think what Kevin has done, eight or nine different working [5:16] groups and a whole bunch of different subjects, whether it be high tech or China or deficit or, [5:22] you know, energy is a good thing. And I was around. Remember, I was Newt's deputy whip, [5:27] one of his deputy whips back in 94. That's when we came up with a contract with America. That was the [5:33] huge effort. We didn't say we're going to necessarily pass them, but it was going to be an [5:37] agenda item for the next hundred days. I didn't actually vote for all of them, but I signed the [5:42] contract that we ought to have a debate. And some of them became law. Can Kevin McCarthy both represent [5:49] you and Marjorie Taylor Greene? He can if he gets the margin. That's why this over under number is so [5:56] important. Are we going to be over under 230? If it's under 230, you don't think he may not become [6:01] Speaker if it's under 230. It will be very hard to govern for Republicans if we're under 230, [6:06] knowing that we've got the MTG element that's really not a part of a governing majority. [6:15] We've had wild types of members of Congress since the history of this. [6:20] Always have. Okay. But if you can you remember Jim Trafficking? [6:24] Oh, yeah. Look, beam me up. Yeah. But Lauren Boebert and Marjorie Taylor Greene and Paul [6:30] Gosar, is that a different element than you've ever seen before? [6:33] Um, I don't think we've had so as many folks in that sort of wing of the party elected as we have [6:40] before, but I think they're very popular back at home. Yeah. I mean, what does that tell you? [6:44] I mean, she be. What does that tell you about the Republican Party? [6:47] Troubled waters, I guess you could say. And that's why the margin is going to be so, you know, right now, [6:52] look, Pelosi's got the votes, particularly with the use of the proxy vote. She's not going to lose a vote. [6:58] And I don't think she really has in the last year and a half. We're not going to have proxy votes. [7:04] Kevin has made that very clear. None of us want that to happen. And it was put in place really [7:09] because of the COVID issue. But a lot determines on what that level is going to be. And you'll be, [7:15] I'll be watching you on in November. I don't mean to throw it very quickly at you. You were just in [7:20] the region of Ukraine. Let me just a simple question. Is the United States doing enough to help Ukraine? [7:25] We have to do everything we can. Let me just tell you, the Ukraine folks so brave, [7:30] they are fighting for us. It was a bipartisan trip that I went on. We have to make sure that [7:34] they have every tool to make sure that they can survive. [7:37] Sounds like you think we can do a little bit more. We can.