Fiery testimony before Georgia Senate committee for Fani Willis

[0:03] I'm sure he was in some of those meetings. [0:05] Would you classify Mr. Wade as senior personnel as being part of your team? [0:09] Would I classify him as senior? [0:11] So he was a special prosecutor. [0:12] He never worked for me as an employee. [0:16] What I would call him is a seasoned lawyer, 25 years, [0:21] first African-American lawyer to ever serve Cobb County as a municipal court judge. [0:26] What I would call him is a lawyer with a distinguished resume. [0:29] Okay. [0:30] When did you begin to consider whether to bring charges in response to the 2020 presidential election in Georgia? [0:37] Don't answer that. [0:38] That's a deliberative privilege. [0:40] Don't answer that. [0:41] I instruct you not to answer that. [0:44] Is it true that part of your transition team was involved in the process of interviewing people [0:51] before you entered office to lead the investigation into the 2020 presidential election? [0:57] I'd like to answer that. [0:59] Go right ahead. [1:01] You only take my advice sometimes. [1:04] Anyway. [1:04] Go ahead. [1:05] That's really an ignorant question. [1:10] And if you understand what the word ignorant means, it means the lack of knowledge. [1:15] If you recall the facts, I was already district attorney when this all came to light. [1:22] So it's factually impossible. [1:25] You were district attorney when what came to light? [1:28] When Raffensperger went on Good Morning America or whatever show he went on. [1:34] I was already district attorney. [1:35] So what you ask is a factual impossibility. [1:38] Now, I know they've gotten black. [1:39] Black folks confused and said I was running for office saying I was going to prosecute the president of the United States. [1:46] But that's what we call a lie. [1:48] Okay. [1:48] I would like to take a look at the screen for me, if you will. [2:06] This is from Mr. Wade's deposition to members of Jim Jordan's committee. [2:13] And he was asked for the search committee. [2:14] You said that began when D.A. Willis took office on January 1, 2021. [2:17] Is that correct? [2:18] Yes. [2:19] And there was outreach to you to be part of the search committee prior to January 2021. [2:23] January 1, 2021. [2:24] Absolutely. [2:25] When did that start? [2:26] Sometime after the election. [2:28] But prior to her taking office. [2:30] Okay. [2:31] So between the election, you're referring to November 2020 election. [2:33] Is that correct? [2:34] Yes, ma'am. [2:35] And so when you had conversations with individuals, you said on multiple occasions, you said no. [2:42] And you turned down the position. [2:44] Who were those conversations with? [2:46] They were with the district attorney. [2:48] So I think you're confusing facts. [2:50] We've already had a long conversation about I interviewed everybody. [2:54] I interviewed everybody at the D.A.'s office. [2:57] And I interviewed other people to come and work at the district attorney's office. [3:01] And as I told you, I did that on my free time before I became D.A. [3:05] But I had no way of knowing that these criminals were going to commit a crime. [3:10] And that did not come to light until January of 2021 when I'm actually the D.A. [3:15] So it is a factual impossibility like I already told you. [3:19] I think that that is misinterpreted. [3:21] He's absolutely correct. [3:23] I was unable to look for talent for the district attorney's office before I became the D.A. [3:27] I didn't wait until the day I took office to look for talent that would represent my office. [3:31] But I was unable to look for talent for a case that didn't exist before I took office. [3:36] It's factually impossible. [3:38] I mean, it's common sense. [3:39] You don't need to be a lawyer. [3:47] I'm going to read you some additional testimony. [3:48] I'll try to put it on the screen. [3:49] You can read me as much as you want, but that's the truth. [3:51] And I will. [3:59] Thank you, Madam D.A. [4:00] I apologize. [4:02] I did not intend to have to get into this here. [4:12] What was the... [4:13] When Mr. Wade says that there was an interview on the D.A. [4:14] on line 13, as you'll see here, this is prior to you entering office. [4:18] What were you interviewing him for? [4:21] I didn't interview him prior to him entering office. [4:24] He had a thriving law practice. [4:26] Even when he ends up being offered the position, he doesn't want it. [4:30] Okay. [4:38] Now, so it's your testimony today that you and Mr. Wade did not have any conversations [4:43] prior to you taking office relative to an investigation into the 2020 election. [4:49] Don't answer that. [4:51] That is a deliberative privilege. [4:53] What goes on in a district attorney's mind in the process... [4:57] She wasn't district attorney. [4:58] She was. [5:00] Prior to being sworn in, she was district attorney? [5:02] No, she was not, but you... [5:04] I'll return to my question. [5:06] Prior to you being sworn in as district attorney, is it your testimony today that you did not [5:10] have any conversation with Mr. Wade about investigating the 2020 election? [5:22] It's a dumbass question. [5:23] I know it is, but go ahead and tell him because it occurred after she took office. [5:29] I didn't know that he was going to commit a crime prior to me taking office. [5:33] Like, factually, it's impossible. [5:36] Okay. [5:37] Thank you. [5:40] Would you agree with the statement... [5:44] Actually, I'll skip that question. [5:47] When did you decide to hire, outside of your office, a special assistant district attorney [5:52] for this election case? [5:55] Oh, Lord. [5:59] So, when I became the district attorney of Fulton County, the office was in absolute chaos. [6:05] I have to take you back. [6:08] Can you hear me? [6:09] It's a little... [6:10] I was going to try to turn you up if you don't mind leaning forward. [6:12] When I became the district attorney of Fulton County, the office was in absolute chaos, [6:19] and I mean every level of chaos. [6:21] On the ground, the carpet was molded, and there were holes in it, and it was disgusting, [6:27] a disgusting environment. [6:29] There were boxes in offices, some to where you couldn't open the door. [6:34] I remember walking through the office. [6:35] I remember walking through the office before. [6:37] I told you I'd fired 50 or 60, I don't know exactly how many employees that I felt were [6:42] unqualified to do this work. [6:44] That doesn't mean they were bad people, but they were unqualified for the positions that they held. [6:50] There were 18,000, write that down, 18,000 unindicted cases that went back six or seven years [7:01] that I was looking at. [7:03] I didn't mention another, you know, 10,000 indicted cases in the system. [7:08] Now, some that the judges had, he had on judicial hold, but they were still there. [7:13] So, the office was in absolute chaos, and then I'm in office, in the office on... [7:21] I came in that Saturday, so that would have been day one. [7:25] That was the day that I walked through the office, and I'm literally in the office that Monday or Tuesday. [7:30] I can't recall now what day it is. [7:32] And there's this phone call, and the Secretary of State saying, [7:38] oh, the proper venue to investigate this might be Fulton County. [7:42] And so, my priority became, and this is important too, there were 200 and something murders [7:48] that had been sitting for years, families that had been waiting for justice for years. [7:53] And so, when I come to be the District Attorney, my first responsibility is just getting the office properly set up. [8:01] In fact, one of the most important roles I held up, [8:03] that I tried to find, was the head of the civil rights lawyer. [8:07] So, when Brian Watkins walked into my office and actually interviewed to come there, [8:12] because he was not with the old administration, that was like a gift from God, [8:15] that I had a lawyer that had enough experience and would be talented enough and ethical enough [8:20] and have the integrity to do this work. [8:22] But my primary job was getting the entire office set up. [8:27] So, I immediately do things like set up a murder backlog project. [8:31] I put Mike Carlson, [8:33] and Michael Sprinkle in charge of that. [8:35] We're going to get all, every family's going to get an answer. [8:37] They may not like the answer, the answer may be we can't prosecute this, [8:40] but we're not going to sit with cases. [8:42] You know, we've got to make decisions on these cases. [8:44] And it took us years to get through that, but we did. [8:47] And I'm happy to sit here and announce to you, every one of those 18,000 cases, [8:51] a decision got made on to include those 101 police cases I talked about, [8:55] as well as the 46,136 cases that came in January 1st, 2020. [9:03] And we're going to continue to do that until December 31st, 2021, [9:08] until December 31st of 2024. [9:11] So, while people tell these lies about the DA ain't been working, [9:15] I want you to find a DA working as hard as me. [9:17] My question was, when did you decide to hire outside counsel, [9:22] a special assistant district attorney, for the election interference case? [9:26] When it became obvious that this case would take so much investigation to learn the truth, [9:32] and that I would need people that could focus on that. [9:35] You know, when I was being developed, each and every member of my staff had a priority. [9:40] See, this is the most important case to you. [9:42] Let me tell you what the most important case was to me. [9:44] When I walked in the office, there had been two black children that had been killed. [9:48] Secordia Turner and Kennedy Maxwell. [9:51] Those were the two most important cases to me as the DA. [9:54] And I needed to make sure that those families got justice, [9:57] but the cases didn't come with a bow on them. [9:59] In fact, one of the cases was particularly not done properly. [10:05] And so my priority became making sure I had the talent [10:09] to make sure we got all of those cases done. [10:12] If you're wondering, both those men are doing life right now for taking those children from us. [10:15] Certainly aware of the case and the autonomous zone [10:18] and everything that happened back in that tragic time frame. [10:22] So definitely appreciate those murders being behind bars. [10:26] So you didn't really give me a date range, but we'll just move on here. [10:30] But you did consider Governor Barnes for this role. [10:33] He's testified to that previously. [10:35] And let me tell you what Governor Barnes told me. [10:37] Governor Barnes told me when he was the governor, [10:39] he changed the state flag from the Confederate flag. [10:42] And that as a result of him changing the Confederate flag to, [10:47] changing the flag to make it more inclusive to all Georgians, [10:51] that the Ku Klux Klan sat outside his house [10:54] and that he lived under threat during that time period. [10:57] He told me that him and his beautiful wife had survived that, [11:01] but that he was an older gentleman now. [11:03] I'm going to say that nicely. [11:04] He was an older gentleman. [11:05] He was an older gentleman. [11:06] And due to the nuts that would come out of the woodwork [11:09] if I was doing this type of work, [11:11] that he was not at a juncture in his life [11:14] where he could take those kind of security risks. [11:16] He also refused to work for $250 an hour. [11:19] We've got some questions in here, Governor, on your rates. [11:29] And we'll get to that in a little bit. [11:32] You did, Madam DA, you considered several attorneys for this case [11:35] in addition to Mr. Barnes? [11:36] I did. [11:37] And ultimately you selected Mr. Wade [11:39] to oversee the Anti-Corruption Union, is that correct? [11:41] He never oversaw the Anti-Corruption Union. [11:43] I'm sorry. [11:44] My apologies. [11:45] To oversee the elections interference case? [11:46] To manage, yes. [11:47] How would you delineate manage versus my choice of oversee? [11:52] They're the same. [11:53] Okay. [11:59] What happened between January 2021, [12:01] I believe that's when the phone call was that you referenced, [12:03] in November 2021, [12:05] which was the time that Mr. Wade signed his first contract, [12:08] what type of work happened within any area of your office [12:11] in terms of gathering evidence [12:13] or considering whether or not [12:14] to bring these charges? [12:16] If you're getting into why a grand jury returns [12:29] a bill of indictment, [12:31] that is a deliberative process [12:33] wrapped in the discretion of the district attorney. [12:37] We're not going to get... [12:39] I'm going to instruct her not to answer. [12:41] Wait a minute. [12:43] Let me finish. [12:44] You can, if you see fit, [12:47] you can seek to enforce that question, [12:51] at which time she would be entitled to it. [12:53] Okay. [12:54] She would be entitled to a jury trial in Fulton County, [12:57] and I would be able to cross-examine you, [12:59] each one of you, [13:01] with a real judge ruling on real law. [13:04] But until that happens, [13:06] I'm going to instruct her not to answer. [13:07] So on your advice to counsel, [13:08] you're asserting privilege? [13:11] I'm telling her not to answer. [13:14] I'm clarifying with the witness. [13:16] You don't have to answer that. [13:17] I'm not a potted plant. [13:18] I can answer. [13:19] You can advise, [13:20] you can absolutely advise your client, [13:22] Mr. Governor Barnes. [13:23] I'm asking your client... [13:24] I suggest you move on. [13:25] I'm asking your client [13:26] if you are asserting privilege [13:27] on the answer to the question. [13:28] I made the objection to the record, [13:30] and told you even what you can do to enforce it. [13:33] What was the total cost [13:36] of the election interference case? [13:37] I don't recall, [13:41] but if we want to talk about cost, [13:43] I'd love to talk about how last year long, [13:45] the AG paid one lawyer $8 million. [13:48] You don't know what the cost of was the... [13:51] You don't know the cost [13:52] of the election interference case? [13:53] I don't know the exact cost. [13:55] What's the range? [13:56] I don't want to speculate to numbers. [14:00] Whatever it cost, [14:05] they tried to steal the rights of thousands of Georgians. [14:09] It couldn't have been enough. [14:11] What was the rough total operating budget [14:13] of your office last year? [14:15] I don't know that. [14:16] It's probably around $40 million. [14:18] That's a speculation and a guess. [14:20] That includes state money, grant money, [14:22] and that's not an exact number. [14:23] I don't do the budget. [14:26] I have very high-level conversations about that. [14:28] Okay. [14:30] Can you give us a rough breakdown of that, [14:31] the county budget and the state budget? [14:33] I cannot, and I'm not going to guess for you. [14:35] Has the federal government given you any money? [14:37] I do have some grants, yes. [14:39] The only source of federal money you get is from grants? [14:41] To my knowledge, I don't. [14:44] There may be something else. [14:47] We may have some federal seizure money. [14:50] If we do, it's not much. [14:53] So I don't know. [14:54] I don't want to speculate. [14:57] If I say, oh, they gave me grant money [15:00] and this federal seizure money, [15:01] and you find some line item someplace [15:03] that I don't know, [15:04] you'll swear I was trying to lie to you [15:06] when the truth is I don't know the correct answer. [15:08] I'm just trying to get to... [15:09] I know you run a tight ship [15:11] over there. [15:12] You're proud of your work. [15:13] I would assume that you would have... [15:15] I'm the best DA in the southeast. [15:16] Why wouldn't I be proud of my work? [15:18] What's your annual budget? [15:19] I told you it's around $40 million, [15:21] but I do not know an exact number. [15:23] And what's the approximate source of funds [15:25] that you receive from the state versus the county? [15:28] Me, like every other district attorney in this state, [15:31] do not receive enough funds. [15:33] I told you that you all pay 20 to 25 ADAs. [15:38] I don't know the exact number. [15:40] I don't have it in front of me. [15:42] No, no. [15:43] Two legal assistants and one investigator. [15:45] Now, Fulton County is a million two people. [15:48] It's the place that when people come to Georgia, [15:51] they're coming is to Atlanta. [15:53] On a daily basis, [15:54] we have five million people, [15:56] and we are very improperly funded. [15:59] If this committee wants to do some real work, [16:02] it'll get serious about crime fighting among this state. [16:06] From every rural community to every... [16:09] I'm answering my question. [16:10] That's not the answer to the question. [16:12] Okay, well, I'm... [16:15] If this committee wants to get serious about legislation [16:19] to make the communities in the state of Georgia safer, [16:23] they will invest more money [16:25] in every district attorney's office across this state. [16:29] That's the rural DAs need more, [16:31] the middle-sized, the residentials, [16:34] and the big cities like Atlanta. [16:36] All of us need more resources [16:38] to be able to do our job appropriately, [16:40] and it is a joke the way that these people are funded [16:43] that are dedicating their lives to public service. [16:46] Also, I want to go back to, [16:48] because this is extremely important, [16:50] and you have the power to do it, [16:52] the Georgia Bureau of Investigations [16:54] cannot test rape kids... [16:56] I did not ask you for advice on what I want the legislature to do. [16:59] That's exactly what the resolution said, [17:01] to take advice on legislation. [17:03] And we will get to that time. [17:05] Well, if you answer the question, [17:07] she has a right to fully answer it. [17:10] That's the question, Governor. [17:12] I would not be saying it... [17:14] She's pontificating on everything from rape kits, [17:16] which was what she was about to get into. [17:18] The question was the amount of money [17:20] that came from state funds and county funds. [17:23] And if she doesn't know the answer to that question, [17:25] the answer is I don't know. [17:27] The answer isn't let me talk about rape kits. [17:29] So I'll get back to the line of questioning. [17:31] I'm going to give you latitude here, Madam DA, [17:34] but the same way in a courtroom, [17:37] there are guardrails as to what we need to stay in and within. [17:40] Indeed, Governor. [17:42] And this is not a courtroom. [17:45] I have plenary power, Governor, to conduct the meeting. [17:50] Absolutely. [17:55] You think you do. [17:57] You're above the law, but you are not. [17:59] If you want to cite her for contempt... [18:01] Governor. [18:03] ...she is entitled to a jury trial, [18:05] and I can examine you on your actions, [18:07] and I can examine you on your motives, [18:09] then I will be glad to take that. [18:13] As the plaintiffs would say, make my day. [18:16] We know the motives. He's on the ballot. [18:18] Governor, this is a... [18:20] This is a witch hunt. [18:22] This is a hearing of the Senate Special Committee on Investigations. [18:26] You're not worried about those that you convicted illegally and locked up. [18:30] Why is it that you run ads... [18:32] We're going to go on to our next question. [18:34] How are the funds... [18:36] You say that we give you the money, [18:38] and I know that's a loose term, [18:40] and that flows into the Fulton County coffers, so to speak, [18:46] and if you commit payment, [18:47] you do that through the Fulton County accounting system. [18:49] Is that correct? [18:50] Your question was compound. [18:51] I didn't understand that. [18:52] Sure. [18:53] I'll try to break that down. [18:56] When checks are written as a result of a check request made by your office, [19:00] those checks are paid by Fulton County. [19:02] Is that correct? [19:07] I don't know how every check is written [19:10] and if that's going to be 100% accurate, [19:13] so I'm going to refrain from asking that question. [19:15] What I can tell you is that, [19:18] and probably happens in every other circuit, [19:21] every district attorney has control over their budget [19:23] and they don't have to go to the county, [19:25] but I understood I was a woman DA coming into the office. [19:28] I also understood that I was African American, [19:30] and so therefore there would always be a target on my back. [19:33] And so I did two things financially. [19:35] One is I've never, so people can stop requesting, [19:38] had a credit card associated with that office. [19:40] Never. [19:41] So I've never had a credit card, [19:43] will never have a credit card. [19:45] The other thing I did is that there is a CFO of Fulton County, [19:48] a white female. [19:49] Her name is Sharon Whitmore. [19:50] I believe you've heard from her. [19:52] And so I made it so that the procedures of my office, [19:54] although I did not have to do it, [19:56] that it has to go through her for clearance. [19:58] That way nobody would say the district attorney stole any money. [20:00] Okay, that gets to the core of my question. [20:02] So when you're paying vendors, [20:04] when you're paying contractors, [20:06] that's going through, [20:07] I think you said her name was Ms. Whitmore, [20:09] and she did testify before the committee. [20:11] What I'm getting to and I'm trying to figure out [20:13] is whether when the state funds come in, [20:15] the federal funds come in, [20:16] the county funds come in, [20:18] are those paid for out of separate accounts? [20:20] Are they mingled into a general budget, [20:23] if you will, and that gets allocated? [20:25] I really couldn't answer the question. [20:27] There's many, many different pots of money from the county. [20:31] The state directly pays those state employees. [20:35] Then they get another check from the county, [20:37] the ones that don't make enough from the state. [20:39] I really can't fully answer your question of all the ways. [20:42] I have a team that I call my, [20:44] I have a deputy of operations on a team [20:46] that does that kind of stuff. [20:48] But there's some money from the county, [20:50] there's some money from the state. [20:52] The grant money I know goes through the state. [20:54] The truth is I don't have any grants. [20:56] Fulton County has grants, [20:58] but those grants do benefit my office. [21:00] My SOCIE unit is renowned. [21:03] I'm ending the year with 100% conviction rate [21:05] on Special Victim Division. [21:07] SOCIE is the Sexual Assault Kit Initiative. [21:10] Georgia, like many states, failed victims, [21:12] mainly victims of color. [21:14] And so rape kits for years, going back to the 80s, [21:17] were not tested. [21:19] So we have a grant with the federal government that, [21:22] and I'm talking about thousands of rape kits, [21:25] where they go and they test those rape kits. [21:28] What we have found is if they would have done those jobs [21:31] and believed those victims, [21:32] that many of those rape kits go back to serial rapists. [21:35] They also go back to people that have committed other crimes. [21:38] I have excellent attorneys that are in that unit, [21:41] some that I pay out of the grant, [21:43] some that I add with my general fund. [21:46] And as I said, not just my SOCIE unit, [21:48] but my Crimes Against Children unit, [21:50] my SOCIE unit, my Sexual Assault unit, [21:52] my Human Trafficking unit. [21:54] We're ending the year with 100%. [21:56] So just yes or no on these, [21:59] we can move quickly on to the next topic. [22:01] You said you do not have a county credit card [22:03] or a DA credit card. [22:04] Absolutely not. [22:05] So y'all can say I stole some money. [22:07] Is there any sort of DA checking account [22:09] that's separate that you use to pay your vendors [22:11] or anything like that, [22:12] or does it all go through the county? [22:15] I really can't answer that, [22:16] and so I'm not going to speculate. [22:18] Okay. [22:19] You've paid forfeiture funds before. [22:21] Do you have a ballpark of how much you've received? [22:23] I think you said it was a small number [22:24] of state forfeiture funds. [22:25] No, I said federal. [22:26] Okay. [22:27] I don't think there's much [22:28] in the federal forfeiture account. [22:29] Do you receive state forfeiture funds? [22:31] I do. [22:32] Approximately how much a year is that [22:35] in an average year? [22:36] I don't know the number to that. [22:38] I can tell you I have sitting in a band, [22:40] so I just did a huge forfeiture, [22:42] but it's not money we can touch yet. [22:44] It's a couple million dollars. [22:45] Okay. [22:46] What's your understanding of the allowed uses [22:48] of state forfeiture funds? [22:51] If I don't know the use of a forfeiture money, [22:54] I talk to lawyers in the office. [22:56] I'll go to PAC. [22:57] I don't touch forfeiture money [22:59] unless I get some approval. [23:00] Do you know of any delineation [23:03] between the allowance of uses [23:05] between state forfeiture funds and federal? [23:07] Yeah, there's definitely rules. [23:09] I was asking about the difference [23:10] between federal and state, [23:11] if there's any rules there. [23:12] There are rules to both, [23:13] and I can't tell you the rules for each. [23:16] Anytime we were going to make an expenditure, [23:18] we would look at it, I'm sure. [23:19] Do you know if those funds [23:20] are commingled at all within your system? [23:22] I don't know, but I would believe not. [23:24] Okay. [23:25] Who is it? [23:26] You mentioned that you've got people. [23:27] Who is it that oversees [23:28] the use of forfeiture funds in the office? [23:29] It's going to be the county. [23:30] The stuff is going to go back to the county. [23:32] And do you know whether or not [23:36] any forfeiture funds were used to pay Mr. Wade? [23:38] I'm not aware of that. [23:40] We would have submitted the invoices to the county. [23:42] The county would have used [23:43] one of those mini-line items. [23:44] They would have paid them. [23:45] Can you think of a reason why [23:50] forfeiture funds would be used to pay Mr. Wade? [23:53] I guess he's... [23:54] She just told you that she doesn't know. [23:57] Yeah, you were asking me to speculate. [23:59] You do not know whether Mr. Wade was paid [24:02] with state forfeiture funds or not? [24:04] You're asking me to speculate. [24:05] No, I'm asking if you know whether or not [24:07] state forfeiture, any forfeiture funds were used. [24:09] I'm unaware of that. [24:12] I'm unaware if the answer is yes. [24:14] I'm unaware if the answer is no. [24:16] What I'm aware of is the process was turning a bill [24:18] and they would do it. [24:21] You and Jim Jordan working together? [24:23] I've never talked to Mr. Jordan. [24:27] I don't know about that. [24:28] Anybody who doesn't report people [24:29] that get raped in college, [24:30] I'm going to have to disagree with you there, guys. [24:32] I don't know. [24:33] You recognize the bottom form here, [24:37] Fulton County Court Payment Voucher? [24:41] I don't. [24:42] You've never seen any document in this format before? [24:45] Never. [24:46] Okay. [24:47] Well, this shows a number of things here. [24:49] It shows what fund it was paid from here, which is 440, [24:52] which is the forfeiture fund account. [24:55] You can see at the top the unit name, [24:57] confiscated funds for this invoice, [25:00] and then here you can see that this was a payment made. [25:03] I apologize. [25:04] I can't see my mouse. [25:05] On the left side there, right in the middle, [25:09] you can see that this was a payment made [25:12] to the law office of Nathan Wade. [25:14] In reviewing for your testimony today, [25:17] we just did review the bills [25:18] and looked through different sources of funds [25:21] that were used to pay Mr. Wade. [25:22] I know your testimony is you were not aware [25:25] that forfeiture funds were used. [25:27] We saw Mr. Wade was paid from forfeiture funds [25:30] and from the county general fund, which is Fund 100. [25:34] And that's why I was getting to the uses of forfeiture funds [25:38] to pay independent contractors. [25:40] Do you have any knowledge of any restrictions [25:44] that may be around the concept of using forfeiture funds [25:48] to pay independent contractors? [25:50] I do not. [25:51] It was my understanding that Mr. Wade was paid out [25:53] of my professional services budget. [25:55] Okay. [26:01] What's the accounting process? [26:02] That's kind of what I was getting to earlier. [26:04] If it was your understanding he was paid out [26:06] of the professional services budget, [26:08] that would intimate that there's some sort of accounting procedure [26:11] within either your office or the county office [26:13] where there are separate fund allocations. [26:16] And I asked you if your funds were commingled [26:19] and everything was paid out of the same [26:20] or if there were dedicated accounts. [26:22] So you were, A, unaware that Mr. Wade was paid [26:26] out of the forfeiture funds. [26:28] You believe he was paid out of the professional services funds. [26:30] What would be the process, as you understand, [26:32] in your office to determine what fund a invoice is paid from? [26:38] You're in the weeds and I don't know the answer. [26:40] Okay. [26:41] We've already talked about the selection of the special S.A.D.A., [26:46] special assistant district attorneys. [26:48] I may use those interchangeably. [26:50] The process of interviewing Governor Barnes [26:52] among some other folks, ultimately settling on Mr. Wade. [26:54] Well, I don't want you to act like he was, you know... [26:57] Well, after talking to two or three people, I think, to be fair, [27:00] I don't think you... [27:02] He's a lawyer who's been practicing law 25 years. [27:04] Sure. [27:07] What was the reason that you chose to use, [27:09] and I think if you could just unpack this for us a little bit more, [27:11] that you chose to use a special assistant D.A. [27:13] at the rate of $250 an hour [27:16] versus using the attorneys that were already in your office [27:20] or hiring additional attorneys at a rate that you referenced earlier [27:25] as between, I think you said, between $85,000 and $200,000 a year? [27:29] Because we were drowning. [27:33] And each of my... [27:37] So most of the lawyers I had in the office [27:40] wouldn't be qualified to do that work, most of them. [27:43] I had some that were qualified to do that work. [27:46] But each of them had a major project. [27:50] Let me use those two cases that mattered most to me. [27:52] Kennedy Maxey and Secoria Turner. [27:56] I was determined we were going to win those cases. [27:58] So on day one, those cases got handed to Ms. Dacia Young. [28:03] In addition to handing her that, because nobody has one job, [28:06] I handed her the Special Victims Division, [28:09] at which time had, like, eight units. [28:11] So she's doing both these two big cases, [28:15] and she's over the entire Special Victims Division. [28:18] Same thing with Mr. Carlson, very qualified lawyer. [28:21] But I handed him six units, and I also told him, [28:25] you're going to get rid of these 250 or so murders that we have. [28:30] We're going to do a project, we're going to set it up, [28:32] we're going to go one by one. [28:34] So every lawyer I had with that level of experience [28:37] had a huge project. [28:39] I assigned a lawyer to deal with the $18,000 backlog. [28:43] I don't want to be sitting here in, you know, [28:44] I think three years to get through those, [28:46] as well as keep up with the 46,000 cases [28:49] that end up coming in in my first term. [28:51] So everyone had some, so it became obvious to me [28:54] that I needed a lawyer that could manage this team [28:57] while I did the rest of the work of the people. [29:03] And there was nobody else, either internal [29:05] or that you could have hired at a lower rate that could... [29:07] A lower rate than 250? [29:09] It's an insult to take 250 for a lawyer [29:11] that's been practicing law that long. [29:13] I thought you told me earlier that your range of people [29:16] that work for you are between 85, not dollars an hour, [29:19] but $85,000 a year and $200,000 a year. [29:22] Yeah, but $85,000 is like one domestic violence grant. [29:25] I usually only hire someone with three years of experience. [29:28] I make an exception with that because that's, you know, [29:30] an offensive salary, although I can tell you [29:32] I think the state is paying lawyers $64,000. [29:34] I mean, it's just, it's ridiculous. [29:37] I know a little girl who just graduated Georgetown Law [29:40] and she's making $280,000, $300,000 a year. [29:43] We do not take public service seriously. [29:46] And we need to because my lawyers do greater work [29:48] than most of these lawyers in this civil firm. [29:51] And let me throw this out. [29:56] That doesn't include the perks, the health insurance [29:59] and all that stuff. [30:00] Which way does that have? [30:02] Sure. [30:04] Describe for me the experience level of your top paid [30:07] or somebody that would fall within the category [30:09] of the top paid assistant district attorney [30:12] that works for you at the $200,000 a year, [30:15] and to Governor Barnes' point, plus benefits. [30:17] Let's just say that that's 250. [30:19] And if I take that divided by 2,000 hours, [30:21] that's about $125 an hour. [30:23] I don't understand the question. [30:26] My question is what is the experience level [30:29] of the assistant district attorney? [30:31] Are you trying to intimate that you're going to tell me [30:33] who to hire and how to do my job? [30:35] No, ma'am. [30:36] I'm asking you the people, the wonderful people [30:38] that you have hired, they're the top of your pay scale [30:40] at $200,000 a year. [30:42] What is their experience level? [30:44] Because you, I'll let you answer that [30:46] and I'll ask my next question. [30:49] Okay. [30:51] It's your testimony that somebody with 20 years [30:53] practicing or more would not be able to manage [30:58] the election interference case. [31:00] You didn't, you are really not listening. [31:03] I said that I had people at that pay rate [31:06] and each of them was assigned a major task within my office. [31:11] And no, I did not have anyone that was not assigned [31:16] with a major task that I trusted to manage [31:18] this case. [31:19] And so I made a decision. [31:21] The people of Fulton County elected me to make [31:23] that decision and I did. [31:25] Is there a reason why you decided to go [31:28] the special assistant district attorney route [31:30] via independent contractor as opposed [31:32] to a new full-time hire? [31:36] I think he's asked and answered, sir. [31:39] Okay. [31:41] Because it was cheap to pay the perks. [31:45] Governor, I'm happy for you to provide counsel [31:48] to your client, but in terms of testimony, [31:52] that's what the district attorney is here for today. [31:55] Can you describe... [31:57] To give you fair notice, I'm not going to allow her [31:59] to answer repetitive questions that have been answered [32:03] time and time again. [32:05] Were there any internal policies that you had [32:07] that kind of drew a line between when you would use [32:09] your internal staff versus hiring a special assistant [32:11] district attorney, or was it more so based on workload [32:13] like you described? [32:16] It was based on my decisions. [32:19] Okay. [32:20] At its peak, how many total attorneys were working [32:22] on the election interference case? [32:24] Maybe nine, approximately. [32:34] You referenced a Mr. Cross before. [32:37] I believe that's a... [32:38] Who? [32:39] I believe you referenced a Mr. Cross before. [32:41] I don't know a Mr. Cross. [32:43] A couple minutes ago. [32:45] Ms. Cross. [32:46] I apologize. [32:48] What about him? [32:49] Her. [32:50] Who are you talking about? [32:51] Ms. Anna Cross. [32:52] I never referenced Ms. Anna Cross. [32:54] I believe you referenced Ms. Cross when we were going through... [32:57] I didn't read back the testimony. [32:59] Can you give me the breakdown of the total attorneys [33:04] that were on the case? [33:05] How many of those were full-time within your office, [33:08] and how many of those were independent contractors? [33:10] I believe I had three independent contractors. [33:14] One of those being Mr. Wade. [33:17] Who were the other two? [33:18] John Floyd and Anna Cross. [33:22] Diversity. [33:23] White male, white female, black male. [33:25] Diversity is intentional. [33:27] What kind of experience do you look for [33:30] in those special assistant district attorneys? [33:32] They're all amazing lawyers. [33:38] John Floyd is the RICO expert. [33:40] He wrote the book, literally. [33:42] He taught me RICO. [33:44] So that was his experience. [33:46] He's not a... [33:48] He's not necessarily going to be the trial prosecutor, [33:54] but he certainly is great to help you put together an indictment, [33:57] and he is certainly capable of questioning a witness, [34:00] but that was not his forte. [34:02] Ms. Cross is a brilliant mind. [34:05] She writes beautifully, [34:07] and is very well versed in the law. [34:11] I had worked for a prosecutor in the past, [34:13] so I looked for smart people with integrity [34:18] that could do the work. [34:20] And I got three lawyers, [34:23] each the guy put in different skin, [34:26] that could do the work. [34:30] Thank you for giving us Ms. Cross's background, [34:35] and the rest of those as well. [34:37] Has Mr. Wade ever prosecuted a RICO case [34:39] prior to the election interference case? [34:41] Mr. Wade has... [34:43] certainly was served as a prosecutor before this. [34:47] He also has worked as a criminal defense attorney, [34:50] and I don't know... [34:52] I believe he has defended RICO cases. [34:54] But as far as you know, [34:57] Mr. Wade is a prosecutor. [34:59] I didn't need him for that. [35:01] That's why I get to make this election and not you. [35:03] Has he ever prosecuted any felonies? [35:05] You referenced him prosecuting cases. [35:07] It's my understanding that this was the first felony case [35:09] that he was on the prosecutor's side for. [35:11] Is that accurate? [35:12] I'm not sure if that's accurate. [35:14] I know he did some... [35:15] I believe he did some work for the Attorney General, [35:17] although the Attorney General never tries as many cases as my office. [35:25] But different people are needed for different things. [35:28] And the people of Fulton County elected me to make those decisions, [35:32] and I will come in and be daddy, [35:34] and create QAnon committees that will judge prosecutors [35:37] and have these committees. [35:39] But unfortunately for you, [35:41] I won this vote by 68% this time, [35:43] 87% in the Democratic, [35:45] 68% the General, [35:47] 72% last time. [35:49] So the people of Fulton County have selected me to make these choices, [35:52] and I make them. [35:54] And my city and county are safer because I make them. [36:00] In your prior testimony with Ms. Ashley Merchant, [36:06] you had a conversation around what she referred to as block-billing. [36:10] How would you describe block-billing? [36:12] Oh, let's talk about Ms. Merchant. [36:14] Let's just talk about block-billing, please. [36:16] We're not. [36:18] I've opened the question to block-billing. [36:26] Well, then let's just... [36:29] So I'd like to talk about what this committee did [36:32] the last time we were here. [36:34] And for the press, I will have 50 copies of this [36:36] so each person can get a copy. [36:38] You all, the last time y'all had a committee meeting, [36:40] you all purported this lie [36:41] that I had the honor of meeting Vice President Kamala Harris. [36:46] Me? [36:47] No, I'm going to answer this question right now. [36:49] And when you stated that, [36:52] you stated that it was me and it was Mayor Dickens. [36:55] And then you put this exhibit up for the entire world to see. [36:59] How disingenuous, how lacking of integrity [37:02] for Ms. Merchant as an attorney to put it up [37:04] and for Cowsard, who I noticed is cowardly not here, [37:07] to have it here. [37:09] It clearly says I'm at a Black History Month project. [37:12] Almost every important black elected official [37:15] across the country was invited to it. [37:17] I'm on the lawn with a cocktail. [37:19] And yet y'all tell the world [37:21] I was sitting down with the Vice President having a meeting. [37:24] It was a damn lie. [37:26] And this is the evidence of it. [37:28] And y'all had the audacity to put it up on a screen [37:30] as if you were showing something [37:32] other than the DA was having a cocktail on the lawn. [37:35] I have never even had the honor [37:37] of meeting Vice President Kamala Harris. [37:39] Never. [37:40] How would you define blockbilling? [37:44] Like somebody who didn't know [37:45] what the hell they were talking about. [37:50] I'm gonna refer you to the screen. [37:53] I don't review those documents. [37:55] So you're asking me to look at documents [37:57] that I haven't for the first time. [37:59] What I can tell you is that I only allowed Mr. Wade [38:01] to bill 160 hours a week. [38:03] And then Mr. Wade would be the first one in the office [38:06] making sure that my staff arrived. [38:08] He corrected their behavior. [38:10] They thought that 830 meant 830. [38:12] I told him that 830 means 745. [38:14] He got there before them. [38:16] He left after him. [38:18] He taught them how to do this case. [38:20] And he was a leader to that team [38:22] and a public servant. [38:24] And for that, him, like me, has been threatened [38:27] thousands of times. [38:29] You want something to investigate as a legislature? [38:31] Investigate how many times they've called me the N-word. [38:33] Why don't you investigate that? [38:35] Why don't you investigate them writing on my house? [38:37] Why don't you investigate the fact [38:39] that my house has been swatted? [38:41] Why don't you investigate this? [38:43] Why don't you investigate this with your time [38:45] that makes sense, and you can use all this [38:47] in your campaign ad, you attacked Fannie Willis. [38:49] What have you done, sir? Nothing. [38:51] I'm going to refer you to the screen. [38:53] I know you said you don't approve these bills. [38:55] I don't look at this. I've never seen it. [38:57] I can't talk to you about documents [38:59] I don't approve and don't review. [39:01] Can't talk to you about it. [39:03] Who does approve the documents in your office [39:06] when invoices come in? [39:08] I thought we'd been through this. [39:10] You want me to testify about something I don't have any first-hand knowledge of? [39:15] Are you asking me to speculate? [39:17] Because I've clearly told you I don't have any first-hand knowledge of it, [39:20] and I'm not going to speculate. [39:23] The question is, when an invoice comes into your office [39:26] from a special assistant district attorney, [39:29] what is the review process for that invoice before it's paid? [39:32] She's answered this. [39:34] She said she has a deputy of operations, and he reviews or she reviews, [39:39] and then it goes through the county. [39:41] So it's a repetitive question. [39:43] What's the name of the deputy of operations? [39:45] The question has been asked and answered, [39:47] and I believe it goes straight to the county, so I'm not sure. [39:51] Dexter Bond. [39:52] Okay. [39:53] Do you know who ATG may be, initials within your office? [39:57] I don't. [39:58] I would assume it's accurate to say it's probably not Dexter Bond. [40:02] I don't. [40:03] It may be somebody at the county. [40:07] What we're looking at here are two bills that were paid by [40:09] and approved by your department. [40:12] The one on the left is from the Cross firm, [40:14] which refers to Anna Cross that we referenced earlier. [40:17] The one on the right is... [40:18] The one on the left is invoice number 11 from Nathan Wade. [40:22] And the first thing that... [40:23] Let me tell you why this is such a damn joke. [40:24] The first thing that jumps out to me as a non-lawyer, [40:28] but as someone who has paid lawyer bills before, [40:31] and I believe this gets to the question, [40:32] the question which was around block billing. [40:36] And here's my question for you, Madam DA. [40:39] Are there rules in your contracts or otherwise [40:41] when you hire independent contractors [40:43] that gets to the billing methodology for your attorneys? [40:48] In other words, are they allowed to always bill [40:51] to the... [40:51] To the even hour? [40:53] Or is there a professional expectation [40:55] that they would bill to the 10th or quarter hour? [40:57] Let me tell you something. [40:57] I had three attorneys working with me that had integrity. [41:00] For you to insinuate that a judge that sat for 10 years [41:04] and was the head of the magistrate court judges, [41:08] that they did something illegal. [41:10] They were underpaid. [41:11] I have here documents where in one annual year, [41:15] because I want you to remember his bills [41:16] were over the course of three years. [41:18] In one annual year made $8 million, made $5 million. [41:20] And I'm going to make sure... [41:21] I'm going to make sure that the press has that [41:23] so that when you're asking me about this great service [41:26] to the state of Georgia, [41:28] that it is understood that these are more than reasonable, [41:32] actually bargain basement amounts. [41:35] Ms. Cross would insist that I wrote government rate [41:38] in her contract [41:38] because she didn't want anyone to get confused [41:40] that she would actually work for this rate, [41:42] but for the fact that it was service to her community. [41:46] So I don't know what we're talking about here, [41:48] but to insinuate these three lawyers [41:50] that have great integrity, [41:52] have served this community well, [41:55] did something unethical, [41:56] I don't know why we're having this conversation. [41:58] I'm trying to... [41:58] I don't know anything about the... [42:00] whatever you're talking about. [42:01] The state of Georgia allocates funding to your office. [42:05] They hire those 25 lawyers, yes. [42:09] And we are trying to... [42:10] The question in here is relative to [42:13] the approval process of invoices [42:16] that are paid by your office. [42:19] You have testified that that is done by Dexter Bond, [42:22] that you... [42:22] that you're unaware of who this ATG is [42:25] that signed off on this. [42:26] We'll move on to the... [42:27] to a further line of questioning here. [42:29] You know, old men have to go to the bathroom [42:34] about every hour. [42:35] Governor, would you like a five-minute recess? [42:37] We'll take a five-minute recess.