House Oversight hearing on Minnesota fraud probe

[0:00] Were these controls ignored by the Wall's administration and by the Department of Human [0:05] Services? [0:06] Absolutely. [0:07] So we have many whistleblower reports talking about how DHS undermined ability to strengthen [0:14] internal controls. [0:16] So for example, there was an effort for the child care assistance program. [0:21] They have a clear and convincing evidence standard to disqualify someone from being [0:26] a provider, where all the other programs are a lower standard preponderance of the evidence. [0:31] There was an effort to make this a lower standard so it was easier to disqualify people to preponderance, [0:38] and the Minnesota Minority Child Care Association, which was run by a group of Somali providers, [0:45] opposed it, and DHS went along with their recommendation. [0:48] And in a similar vein, we were trying to reduce the number of child care employees with children [0:55] that could work in these child cares. [0:57] We were trying to reduce the number of child care providers that could work in these child [0:58] care centers, because that was one of the vectors of fraud, and they opposed that. [1:01] So you had the Somali community who on purpose was petitioning the state of Minnesota to [1:07] lower the standards, lower the standards to be able to make sure that fraud could not [1:12] be caught. [1:13] Is that correct? [1:14] Well, they wanted to keep the standard clear and convincing, which makes it harder to disqualify [1:18] people. [1:19] So it makes it harder for them to be disqualified from wasting taxpayer funds. [1:23] Is that correct? [1:24] Absolutely. [1:25] Okay. [1:26] Ms. Robbins, I want to stay with you. [1:27] You've talked about some of these funds were used to buy property in Kenya. [1:31] Yes, sir. [1:32] Property in Turkey. [1:33] Do I have that correct? [1:34] Yes. [1:35] Remittances back to Somalia? [1:36] Yes. [1:37] I think it's important for the committee to understand that these remittances, in part, [1:43] are used in what's called the Hawala, I want to make sure I have the terminology right, [1:47] the Hawala network. [1:48] Ms. Robbins, can you speak to what the Hawala network is? [1:50] Yes. [1:51] So it's an informal network where someone brings, goes to a Hawala place in Somalia, [1:57] in Minneapolis, which is like a money exchange or a money-sending site, and they say, I want [2:04] to send X amount of dollars, and then there's a receiving site in Somalia, and they put [2:12] the cash, take the cash out. [2:14] So money doesn't cross the border. [2:16] It's an order for money here that gets transmitted to Somalia. [2:19] For the time, because I'm out of time, I want to expound. [2:23] In Somalia and other parts in the Middle East, in the Middle East region writ large, a whole [2:25] network is a hand, it's a bunch of money exchangers, hand to hand, not bank account to bank account. [2:33] Exactly. [2:34] And what is clear in Somalia and other parts is that al-Shabaab, the largest al-Qaeda [2:39] affiliate in Somalia, they have their hands all through this network. [2:44] So taxpayer money, United States dollars that are being remitted into Somalia, in part, [2:50] have been utilized or have fell into the hands of al-Shabaab. [2:55] Do you think that's a correct assessment? [2:56] Yes. [2:57] We have plenty of evidence of that from money directly going to al-Shabaab, but then also [3:04] indirectly because they take a cut of whatever gets sent to Somalia. [3:07] Thank you so much. [3:08] Chairman, I know I'm over. [3:09] Thank you for the additional time. [3:10] Mr. Chair, I seek recognition for unanimous consent request. [3:13] Chair recognizes Ms. Presley. [3:15] I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record a December, 2025 article from the Minnesota [3:19] Star Tribune titled, Contrary to Trump's Claims, Somalis Add $8 Billion. [3:22] I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record a December, 2025 article from the Minnesota [3:23] Star Tribune titled, Contrary to Trump's Claims, Somalis Add $8 Billion. [3:24] Contrary to Trump's Claims, Somalis Add $8 Billion. [3:25] I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record a December, 2025 article from the Minnesota [3:26] Star Tribune titled, Contrary to Trump's Claims, Somalis Add $8 Billion. [3:27] I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record a December, 2025 article from the Minnesota [3:28] Star Tribune titled, Contrary to Trump's Claims, Somalis Add $8 Billion. [3:29] Mr. Chair recognizes Ro Khanna from California. [3:33] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [3:36] Mr. Chairman, fraud, waste and abuse is not a partisan issue. [3:44] FDR in 1932 with the New Deal railed against inefficiencies and fraud and waste in state [3:52] and local government. [3:53] I want to be clear. [3:55] Many in the Democratic Party stand against speeds. [3:57] Mr. Chairman, I want to make it clear. [3:58] the misappropriation or misuse of taxpayer dollars the reality is as a [4:05] progressive Democrat I believe the ultra wealthy should pay more but I want that [4:10] money going for the health care the child care and the education of the [4:15] American people it offends me if there is waste or fraud in any of our states [4:21] that's why I called for people in my state of California to share stories of [4:27] inefficiencies fraud or wasteful spending I partnered with the all-in [4:33] podcast to advertise that we need to be responsible stewards of our tax dollars [4:40] and I believe we should be doing this for all 50 states I challenge my [4:46] colleagues on the Republican side let's have an audit of all 50 states to make [4:51] sure that government money is being spent wisely we don't need to make these [4:57] partisan hearings [4:58] every American has a stake in making sure that they have a receipt for where [5:04] their tax dollars are going every American has a stake if we're going to [5:09] ask them to pay tax to make sure that that money isn't being wasted and I'd [5:13] like to see this committee work together to stand up for basic fairness of the [5:18] American taxpayers [5:19] I certainly am going to do that in the state of California and we should be [5:23] doing that in all 50 states [5:25] thank you mr. chairman thank you representative Kahn and I [5:29] believe you're sincere and we want to work with you on fraud in any state if [5:34] it's a Republican state Democrat state we don't care we the mission of this [5:39] committee's to root out waste fraud abuse and mismanagement and we would [5:43] gladly work with you thank you mr. chair mr. chairman mr. chairman chair [5:49] recognized mr. Biggs from Arizona I have a UC request proceed thank you first one [5:55] is Arizona has recovered just 5% of taxpayer dollars lost in a 2.5 billion [6:00] dollar Medicaid fraud scheme without objection so ordered and I'll save the [6:05] rest for the future now I'm gonna I've got I've got a bunch more but not right [6:09] now mr. okay all right thank you I'll chair recognizes myself for five minutes [6:13] of questioning yesterday Minnesota's office of the legislative auditor [6:17] published an audit of the state's Department of Human Services behavioral [6:21] health administration grants I'd like to enter that report and it's cover letter [6:26] into the record without objection so ordered the cover letter of this report [6:31] states quote however during the course of our audit we identified a number of [6:36] documents that the behavioral health administration either backdated or [6:40] created after our audit happened in quote it sounds like governor Tim Walz's [6:45] Department of Human Services may have been fabricating evidence by creating [6:50] documentation after the fact to mislead voters to mislead auditors this new [6:56] report noted that one grantee who received nearly six hundred eighty [6:59] thousand dollars from this agency for one [7:02] month's work but could not provide any documentation or proof that any work was [7:07] actually completed what's more and this is the kicker the report notes that the [7:12] grant manager who approved this money left the agency within days of approving [7:17] the grant to take a job with the very same grantee that they approved money [7:23] for so very quickly representative Robbins have you ever seen anything like [7:28] this in your time as a member of the Minnesota's fraud prevention and state [7:32] agency oversight policy committee I'm going to give you a little bit of an [7:33] example of this we have heard whistleblower reports of backdating and [7:37] falsification before and we also have a record of earlier in the sea cap the [7:43] child care fraud where they would allow the providers to submit records far [7:48] after the investigation and accept them as true so clearly this has been a [7:53] pattern at the agency and it's unacceptable unbelievable and we want to [7:57] work with you we want to work with these whistleblowers we're serious about this [8:01] the Trump administration's on the ground we want to catch these people [8:04] and we want to put them behind bars and we would hold any politician that that [8:08] participated in these schemes accountable represent Hudson who's to [8:12] blame for this dysfunction well the blame can go around quite a bit but as [8:16] Tim Walz himself said the buck stops with him represent Robbins do you have [8:21] any examples of how the waltz administration blocked investigators [8:24] from moving forward with high priority fraud and get investigations yes we do [8:28] mr. chairman I have met with whistleblowers and and gotten documents [8:32] from them about how after the original [8:35] sea cap whistleblower report came out in March and April of 2019 subsequent to [8:41] that there was a there was an Office of Inspector General within DHS that had [8:45] investigative authority to do surveillance warrants and seize [8:50] electronics and they were shut down they were told they could no longer do [8:54] criminal investigations they were told they could no longer meet with the Bureau [8:58] of Criminal Apprehension agents that were assigned to them without [9:02] supervisors approval and instead when they found [9:05] the one of them other members talked about how they changed the language they [9:09] went from calling it fraud to calling it over billing and they created an over [9:13] billing committee to all all the investigative agents now couldn't do [9:18] criminal investigations and they had to flag issues of over billing and then a [9:23] committee would decide if any of that over billing would be recoup committee [9:27] bad appointed by Walt's no appointed within DHS Oh appointed by the own [9:32] bureaucracy yes so so they shut down criminal [9:35] investigations they created a committee to call it over billing and [9:38] decide if over billing investigations would even try to this is evidence that [9:43] Tim Waltz interfered with investigators who knew there was fraud the the rumors [9:47] of fraud have been taking place I've been hearing him for a decade and yet he [9:52] interfered to try to obstruct their investigation of fraud yes his agencies [9:58] shut down criminal investigations represent Hudson we didn't get nine [10:02] billion dollars stolen overnight how did the fraud in [10:05] Minnesota become so widespread well listen let me give the maximum benefit [10:11] of the doubt that these programs were designed for a beneficial legislative [10:15] intent of course though the way that it happened was by when people recognized [10:20] that the system wasn't working and they raised those concerns those concerns [10:24] were ignored and a culture suppressing raising those concerns was fostered by [10:32] the walls administration so obviously there was a lack of oversight by the [10:38] Walt [10:38] administration why would governor Walt let nine billion dollars in fraud occur [10:43] mr. Hudson in my opinion because was politically beneficial to Democrats [10:47] again the Somali community is a huge constituency group and we've had some [10:52] tight races in Minnesota and makes a difference for them because it's a huge [10:57] part of the Democrat voting base in Minnesota is that correct correct [11:02] representative Eric governor Walt's his announcement not to seek a third term [11:06] seems to be an admission of guilt I think to most Americans [11:09] and an attempt by the Democrat establishment to cover up his role in [11:13] the rampant fraud he claims this is so he can focus on defending the people of [11:17] Minnesota against criminals who prey on our generosity as as someone who has [11:23] been in the Minnesota legislature longer than Tim Waltz has been governor can can [11:27] governor Walt's actually be trusted to defend Minnesotans when he allowed fraud [11:30] to fester for his entire tenure as governor mr. chairman if governor walls [11:37] was serious about stopping fraud he would have done it in 2019 [11:40] when he took office he has done nothing other than appoint commissioners that [11:46] suppressed fraud and retaliated against their own employees and just think this [11:52] man was almost elected vice president the United States this was the pick for [11:57] the sitting vice president United States to be the next vice president I think [12:03] this is unbelievable if people aren't held accountable if people don't go to [12:08] jail for this this will continue not just in Minnesota but other states and [12:12] we're going to do everything we can on this committee to work with you all and [12:15] every whistleblower in Minnesota and any other of the 49 states who wants to come [12:20] forward to expose wage fraud abuse we're going to work with you and eliminate it [12:24] and hold people accountable uh chair now recognizes Mr Mfume is that right Mr [12:29] chairman I just have a UC request okay go ahead uh first one is from the American [12:35] Immigration Council immigrants contribute billions to federal and state taxes each [12:39] year as well as immigrants do not commit more [12:42] crimes in the U.S despite fear-mongering without objection so ordered chair now [12:46] recognizes Mr Mfume from Maryland thank you very much Mr chair I want to thank you and [12:52] the ranking member for bringing us together on this today I have a request for unanimous [13:00] consent to enter into the record a letter from James Clark the inspector general of the Minnesota [13:06] Department of Human Services directed to the fraud prevention and state agency oversight committee of [13:14] the House of Representatives in Minnesota requesting information on the alleged 700 tips that have [13:23] been received I'd like to enter that with unanimous consent without objection to order Mr chair I know [13:29] we're up against the clock many of us are trying to get to the special briefings on the action that [13:35] has taken place in Venezuela and so we are leaving one by one I do want to try to get a couple of [13:41] things in uh before I have to depart also I want to thank Mr Mfume and Mr Mfume and Mr Mfume and the [13:44] thank you again as ranking member of this committee's subcommittee on government operations [13:49] it has been my focus to combat waste fraud and abuse within the federal government for the last [13:55] three and a half years regardless of what side you're on what side of the aisle or what you [14:00] believe as has been stated everybody should be against fraud it requires our collective [14:07] attention to address the issue and to minimize the consequences that we are seeing that are [14:14] taking place [14:14] not minimize the consequences to the perpetrators but minimize the hurt to taxpayers in this [14:21] country as a ranking member of that committee we have committed ourselves to fight this full [14:27] and necessary issue over and over again and I believe that from most of the people I've heard [14:34] we all are concurrence that stealing from taxpayers is the wrong thing period now the [14:40] distinguished gentleman from Texas Mr Sessions and I who is the chairman of that subcommittee [14:44] have been [14:45] working together on a bipartisan basis to create a congressional scorecard to assess the progress [14:51] of key government spending programs in reducing fraud and improper payments both through the [14:58] federal government and through states additionally through the American Rescue Act plan Congress has [15:04] provided funding for prac as well as the pandemic analytic center of excellence to deter detect and [15:12] prevent fraud across multiple foreign [15:15] state agencies and multiple federal agencies I've also co-led several bills here in the house that [15:21] address that type of fraud Congress should defend these programs that seek to find a way to root out [15:29] this problem and we need to do that in a bipartisan non-partisan way the Council of Inspector Generals [15:37] for integrity and efficiency in their report a year and a half ago to the Congress and to the [15:42] president found that every dollar [15:45] spent on the office of inspectors general as a result 26 dollars was saved for every one that [15:52] was spent now that's a return on investment that taxpayers deserve and unfortunately the Trump [15:57] administration illegally defunded cigie last year and I've joined with my colleagues several of whom [16:04] on this committee in leading several letters to oppose that unlawful set of firings of Inspector [16:11] Generals I urge this administration again and my colleagues [16:15] to restore the congressionally designated funding to cigie and the offices of inspectors General so [16:23] that we might be able to continue the work necessary to combat waste fraud and abuse [16:28] before I yield I want to thank Mr O'Connor for his comments that this issue should be non-partisan [16:37] that when we make it something other than that we take away from our ability to bring about change [16:43] and we in some sort of way chip away [16:45] at the sort of belief that the public has that we are really serious about doing something here so it [16:52] was concerning to me also to have heard some of the xenophobia that began earlier in this hearing [16:58] Mr Chairman uh differences differences versus similarities and when we do that we create the [17:05] problems that we always are trying to to do away with asking witnesses to give their opinion of [17:13] Somalis as a general group of [17:15] Americans asking uh witnesses their opinion do you think they vote for Democrats do you think they [17:22] just give money to Democrats asking their opinion what is your opinion of Somalians what is your we [17:28] might as well say what is your opinion of Jews what is your opinion of black people what is your [17:33] opinion of Latinos that sort of thing although it may sound good and play to the issue creates [17:40] a slippery slope I want to caution people a slippery slope we heard earlier [17:46] that of over 100 000 Somalis in this country 87 were indicted in Minnesota that comes out to 0.087 [17:53] percent those sort of things create I think the disbelief that a lot of people have that we're [18:00] about doing the business that we ought to do and it gets back to the point that the gentleman from [18:05] California raised that we've got to find a way to keep this from being partisan and to keep it from [18:11] being subjective I would yield back Mr chair Jim and you're in fact chair recognize Mr Biggs [18:16] before I go to Mr Crane Mr Biggs you have it you see yes yes sir uh first one is Tim Waltz claims he [18:22] fired people amid fraud scandals but won't name names next one Walt's appointees failed to stop [18:27] rampant Minnesota fraud next one exclusive DHS Insider claims systemic issues in addressing [18:34] fraud next one here's what the Trump administration is doing to crush Minnesota's fraud epidemic next [18:41] one Minnesota fraud committee chair claims Walt's turned a blind eye to fraud warnings for years and [18:46] you'll bet without objection to order chair recognizes the gentleman from Arizona Mr Crane for [18:52] five minutes thank you Mr chairman grateful to have elected officials from Minnesota here today [18:57] who can provide more intimate information regarding this mind-blowing fraud coming from the Somali [19:04] community in Minnesota according to assistant U.S attorney Joe Thompson there is an estimated 9 [19:10] billion or more in fraud many obviously believe that this is just the tip of the iceberg I want [19:16] to acknowledge the independent reporters Nick Shirley and Dave Hawk who broke this story wide [19:21] open today I'm introducing a bill to award Nick Shirley with the congressional medal for his [19:26] explosive work in exposing astronomical fraud in Minnesota and the reason I'm doing this is because [19:32] the American people are sick and tired of this and they're sick and tired of mainstream media [19:36] not covering any of it the biggest question that most Americans however have is this is [19:42] this incompetence at the executive level with the governor and attorney general [19:46] are they involved in complicit I'm going to start with you Miss Robbins thank you sir my understanding [19:54] is that they were certainly aware of the fraud and they did nothing to stop it and there were plenty [20:00] of opportunities and their commissioners and their agencies also undermined efforts to tighten internal [20:06] controls and according to Miss Rarick I believe you said that they were actually going after [20:11] whistleblowers to suppress the expose of this fraud is that is that correct that is what the [20:18] whistleblowers have said repeatedly thank you one thing that is so alarming is the reporting that [20:24] many of these fraudulent companies are then donating the stolen money back to the same [20:29] Democrats that are protecting them and advocate for these very programs is is that correct Mr Hudson [20:36] I wouldn't agree with that statement well we just had one of my Democrat colleagues said these are [20:43] just opinions do you know are are these guys donating money back to Democrats yes they are [20:48] I'd like to enter into the record Mr [20:50] chairman an article from Breitbart news saying with the title being database searches show Somali [20:57] fraudsters funding Democrat politicians so these aren't opinions without objections actually [21:01] reporting on this um are you guys aware you guys are elected officials in Minnesota right are you [21:09] guys aware of the reporting that some of the stolen money is getting funneled back to the [21:13] Islamic terror groups group Al Shabaab in Somalia Mr Robbins yes sir and we have evidence of it [21:21] going back [21:22] as far as 2012 where a man was convicted of sending 21 000 to Al Shabaab in 2011 two Minnesota women [21:31] were convicted of sending money to different uh groups someone else um we have multiple references [21:38] of how the Al Shabaab takes a cut when the money gets to Somalia through the hoala Network so I [21:43] think there's ample evidence on this and federal convictions yeah that's outrageous obviously one [21:50] of the biggest reasons so many Americans are outright [21:53] outraged by this massive exposure is because we generously and often foolishly allow immigrants [22:00] and people into our country and then they rob the American people blind where while our debt [22:05] skyrockets and the American people struggle to make ends meet what do you guys are you guys [22:10] hearing from your constituents the same outrage that I'm hearing from mine about this issue [22:15] Minnesotans are fed up everywhere I go in the state Minnesotans are so frustrated as I said my [22:22] opening remarks we are a highly taxed state [22:25] they are angry that this much of their money nine billion dollars is being absconded by criminals Mr [22:31] Hudson are you just hearing from Republicans on this or are Democrat constituents like oh my God [22:37] I'm struggling to put my kids in school struggling to make ends meet and my tax dollars are being [22:43] robbed by people and then they're sending it all over the place and this is complete fraud what is [22:49] going on and why hasn't anything been done about it I'll give you a personal example so my family [22:55] is in particular politically diverse a lot of them vote for Democrats and they're fairly apolitical [22:59] they're not like me all plugged in and so I kind of use them as a bellwether for what the people [23:04] are thinking across the board everybody is upset about this fraud and I'm guessing when you guys [23:10] bring this up whether it's to the waltz administration whether it's to the AG the the [23:16] number one thing that comes back at you is you're a racist you're white supremacist or you're an [23:25] anti- qualifications he's doing it at the national level you guys do you guys hear [23:28] the same thing at the state level as well yes absolutely they always pivot to the divisive as [23:36] I stated in my opening statement it's diversion right we're going to talk about personalities [23:40] we're going to talk about partisan politics we're going to find some way to get people yelling at [23:44] each other rather than looking at the problem or like you've heard my colleagues do on this panel [23:49] it's Donald Trump baby yep it's all about Donald Trump right the old pivot we're not going to talk [23:54] about what's going on in Somalia and what's going on in the others going to be the same thing as [23:56] in some areas of the country the same as in some other areas of the country I don't want to get too [23:56] or not going to talk about what's going on in minnesota with this massive fraud scandal we're [24:01] going to talk about donald trump with my remaining seconds can we play the video i have mr chairman [24:08] uh or did we run out of time we did run out of time but can we put that in the in the record [24:15] with that can we thank you thank you mr chairman okay thank you uh representative crane yields [24:23] back chair recognizes miss stansbury from new mexico thank you mr chairman and happy new year [24:28] welcome to our guests thank you to our legislators for being here today and to our guests [24:34] um you know i i'm always i come to these committee hearings i'm ready to debate the topics [24:40] i'm grateful that you're bringing this case to our attention yes we need to prosecute these crimes [24:47] period period let's do that and i'm also grateful to see that this committee is actually conducting [24:53] a hearing that is in its jurisdiction which is oversight over government fraud but i do [24:59] have to say a little matters first though is i know we've had several hearings about this so it's [24:59] been a little hard to get informed but you know what's gonna happen but i'm grateful to see that [24:59] we have a lot more time to come talk as well you know it's going to be a great experience [24:59] say to my colleagues point that was just made that I am surprised to see the [25:03] focus given that the President of the United States and the administration are [25:08] engaged in fraudulent behavior literally daily including just a few days ago [25:14] invading a foreign country using the United States military to take their oil [25:20] and notifying oil and gas companies before the United States Congress and [25:25] the president claiming last night that he is personally going to control the [25:31] oil and give government kickbacks to oil and gas companies so why are we not [25:37] investigating that it definitely gives you the impression that there's a double [25:43] standard in this country I also want to say that I'm troubled to see that this [25:48] hearing is being held in conjunction with an announcement that the [25:52] administration made just yesterday that they were going to freeze ten [25:57] thousands ofgroups of foreign capital and and thousands of people that are [25:57] billion dollars in federal funding for child care and family assistance to five states across the [26:03] country and if you watch the president's crazy address yesterday you heard him say it himself [26:08] but i want to say one thing because my colleagues have pointed out all about weaponizing the [26:13] government for political purposes well these five states happen to have one thing in common [26:18] they all have democratic governors and gubernatorial elections this year is this a [26:27] coincidence i don't think so my friends and this of course comes after weeks of viral videos from [26:36] a young man youtuber who was literally creeping around daycares by himself making claims about [26:45] fraud that were not there and then the vice president and the fbi director were retweeting [26:52] these videos without even verifying if they were true unleashing a furor [26:58] of [26:59] anti-immigrant and anti-Somali hate across the country, wherein thousands of Somali people got [27:05] targeted and harassed, including by the President of the United States, who literally used his [27:10] platform as the President of the United States to call an entire community garbage. He literally [27:17] said that. So we're not accusing people of being xenophobic and racist. They are being xenophobic [27:27] and racist, including the President of the United States. And I want to say for one that I stand [27:32] with the Somali and the immigrant community standing here today. But there's a bigger policy [27:38] point here, which is that this is being used as a politically expedient moment to take away the [27:45] immigration status of Somalis in the United States as part of the mass deportation plan [27:50] of this administration. And it is also being used by the 2025ers in this [27:57] administration to freeze critical programs that we know low-income families depend on and which [28:05] they call part of the woke agenda this is part of a larger effort to defund these programs as we are [28:13] seeing across these five states so i think it's important to pull back the curtain a little bit [28:18] about what is actually going on in this hearing and its coordination with the administration that [28:23] this is about one demonizing political opponents in democratic states during a major election cycle [28:32] two it's about demonizing the immigrant community to support cruel and illegal mass deportation [28:38] policies and three it's about demonizing poor people and struggling families to justify taking [28:44] away the basic programs that are helping them survive in this country so i want to just close [28:50] out by saying that i grew up in a low-income family many of you have heard my story before [28:55] but as i woke up to the news that the president was freezing child care funding to these five [29:00] states i had to think about the millions of families that would be impacted by it i think [29:08] about my own mom a single mom barely struggling to get by working multiple jobs these programs are [29:17] a lifeline they make it possible for people like me to ultimately have a pathway to success [29:27] and you all are sitting here running legislation on showerheads [29:32] while millions of americans health insurance is expiring while millions of americans can't even put [29:39] food on the table right now and you're over here parading around state officials demonizing [29:45] immigrants talking about cutting basic programs and you're passing legislation to redefine [29:52] showerheads in congress while the president of the united states is illegally invading [29:57] foreign countries order gentle ladies times i find it appalling [30:03] order this lady chair recognizes dr fox from north carolina uh chair recognizes mr biggs from [30:10] arizona thank you mr chairman have uc requests first one hhs freezes child care payments to [30:15] minnesota after massive fraud alleged next one minnesota's quality leering center fixes sign [30:24] address still misspelled minnesota made it easier to get into daycare business trump's deputies [30:33] freeze childcare payments to minnesota mid-led somali fraud [30:37] jonathan turley explains why feds can dig deep into somali scammers special [30:42] without objection so ordered uh recognized mr gill got another uc request an article from [30:48] city journal quote the largest funder of al-shabaab is the minnesota taxpayer without [30:53] objection to order and i believe mr fallon you have a request uh yes mr chairman i'd like to [30:57] enter into the record an article by the center of american experiment feeding our future kef [31:02] keith ellison caught on tape without objection so ordered chair now recognizes dr fox [31:08] from north carolina thank you mr chairman i thank our witnesses for being here today [31:15] representative robbins when governor waltz testified before this committee last june [31:20] i reminded him that the fraud involving the non-profit feeding our future established [31:26] minnesota as ground zero for the largest covered 19 fraud scheme in the nation [31:33] feeding our future took 250 million dollars in federal funds out of the mouths of hungry children [31:39] which amounts to sixteen hundred dollars per child living in poverty in minnesota according [31:45] to the fbi the 250 million in federal taxpayer money was funneled quote into luxury homes cars [31:53] and lavish lifestyles while families struggle end quote the fbi stated it quote will not allow [31:59] criminals to rob federal programs and walk away [32:03] unscathed will expose their schemes dismantle their networks and ensure they focus the full [32:09] weight they face the full weight of justice end quote last june governor waltz assured me [32:16] that he quote wholeheartedly end quote supported the federal government's efforts to bring to [32:22] justice those who stole federal taxpayer money at the expense of hungry children [32:28] if he had been true to his word we would not be sitting here today [32:32] however [32:33] the committee's back today because the feeding our future scam is just the tip of the iceberg [32:39] of fraud in minnesota and perhaps beyond representative robbins democrats in your [32:44] state have tried to dismiss your inquiry into the feeding our future fraud as a partisan political [32:51] exercise is exposing fraud and theft of taxpayer funds a partisan activity [32:58] no ma'am as i said in our first committee hearing it is non-partisan everyone should want to protect [33:02] taxpayers and vulnerable citizens and we completely agree got representative robbins did [33:10] governor waltz work with you and your committee wholeheartedly to bring justice to those involved [33:16] in the feeding our future uh fraud no ma'am they have ignored the documents we have provided to [33:22] them we did a hearing in february of 2025 on child care fraud that was outlined in the nick shirley [33:28] video and we gave them a list of 72 childcare providers who were on thatѕs fraud UNICEF to [33:31] child care providers that we were concerned about that got a million [33:35] dollars each or more and as we saw in the Shirley video last month they have [33:40] done nothing about it representative Hudson for several years we've heard [33:45] about whistleblowers highlighted by some of us in Congress who noted instances of [33:50] a fraud in Minnesota with this in mind the recent allegations from Nick Shirley [33:57] regarded regarding staggering amounts of fraud involving child care centers [34:03] come as no surprise what kind of climate did Governor Walsh create for [34:08] whistleblowers well I think he did a really good job of demonstrating for us [34:13] the kind of climate that he's created yesterday when in an unhinged rant he [34:17] tried to throw deputy US Attorney Joe Thompson under the bus a guy who's been [34:21] doing this for I believe 16 years if he's willing to throw a deputy US [34:25] attorney under the bus what do you think [34:27] he's gonna do to a state agency employee that's the climate and [34:31] everybody who works for the walls administration knows it thank you [34:36] representative Rarick do you believe the walls administration seriously [34:42] pursued whistleblowers reports of fraud I think that the walls administration [34:47] seriously retaliated against whistleblowers and ignored them and [34:52] dismissed them and you know in my opening statement I talked about the [34:57] threats of firing them [34:59] and blacklisting them and things like that so that's what the walls [35:03] administration focused on representative Rarick innocent American [35:08] taxpayers are collateral damage in the Democrats reckless disregard for [35:12] taxpayer funds hard-working Americans and their communities are left to pay [35:17] the price what lessons can other states and federal officials take from your [35:22] work to expose the stunning amount of fraud and the network of those who [35:27] enabled it that you all have exposed in [35:29] Minnesota yeah the answer to that is very simple and that is if you just do [35:34] simple basic good governance like reconciliation and a few other financial [35:39] controls you won't have the problems that you have here and if you don't [35:42] retaliate against your employees your frontline workers that point out fraud [35:46] you won't have this problem either representative Hudson do you have [35:50] anything you'd like to add to that yes absolutely you have to have a a culture [35:56] of good faith and that is what is lacking in Minnesota [36:01] there is not a culture of good faith and you you see a very strange strategy [36:05] going on right now with Minnesota Democrats where every day they're [36:09] denying this problem which really strikes me as bizarre because we know [36:13] there are more prosecutions coming so what are they going to say as story [36:17] after story drops and we can cite time and date where they said it wasn't a [36:23] problem thank you and Mr Chairman I'd like to note that it was the education [36:28] and Workforce Committee when I was chair that first brought this [36:32] issue to the public's attention and we got nowhere under a Democrat [36:38] administration thank you Mr Chairman I yield back exactly correct thank you Dr [36:43] Fox chair recognizes Miss Summer Lee from Pennsylvania thank you Mr Chair I [36:48] think like so many people on this committee have already articulated [36:51] nobody here believes that rooting out fraud and waste and abuse is not a top [36:57] priority of this committee of our caucus of their conference it is if you're on [37:03] this committee it is the top charge that we all undertake incredibly seriously [37:07] but I think like so many things with the modern Republican party it's like you're [37:11] skulking right around the edge of things but too often your bigotry the Republican [37:18] party's own bigotry is imprisoning them and keeping them from ever actually doing [37:22] something that helps not harms the American people and this is another one [37:26] of those instances right when it's a person of color if it's two or three [37:29] it's a pattern and the entire community must be indicted [37:33] it's a hundred Republicans, it's just not bad. [37:36] Neither here nor there, because it's important. [37:38] That's why we have routinely held hearings [37:41] where we actually go over [37:43] with the Government Accountability Office [37:45] their high risk list, we take it seriously. [37:48] But the tone of this hearing seems to be a hypocritical [37:51] which is hard to take it as anything but that [37:54] rather than an actual oversight effort. [37:56] Our federal government currently has the tools [37:59] to catch and prevent waste, fraud and abuse. [38:02] It's how the alleged fraud in Minnesota was caught [38:06] by the Biden administration in the first place. [38:09] Mr. Blue, as a former federal prosecutor, [38:11] you're familiar with some of the tools that we have, correct? [38:14] Yes. [38:15] Just briefly, could you please verify [38:17] the following tools for me? [38:18] Yes or no, does the Government Accountability Office [38:21] work to reduce waste, fraud and abuse? [38:24] Yes. [38:26] Do inspectors generals work towards these goals? [38:29] Absolutely. [38:30] What about the general, the Council of the Inspectors [38:32] General? [38:33] The Council of the Inspectors General [38:34] works to reduce waste, fraud and abuse [38:35] based on integrity and efficiency. [38:36] Yes. [38:37] Are whistleblowers important [38:38] to rooting out waste, fraud and abuse? [38:39] Absolutely. [38:40] Has the Trump administration [38:41] helped or hurt these tools? [38:42] Certainly hurt it by disbanding the Council [38:45] for Inspectors General and then ultimately firing 19 IGs. [38:49] Thank you. [38:50] That's right. [38:51] Again and again, Trump has attacked the oversight [38:53] mechanisms within the federal government. [38:55] He illegally fired 17 inspectors general [38:58] and other key personnel. [39:01] He goes after whistleblowers and he tries to roll back [39:03] their protections. [39:04] He routinely ignores the rampant corruption [39:07] within his own administration. [39:09] Republicans have turned a blind eye to all of this. [39:12] They have held no hearings on these actions. [39:15] And this hearing today isn't even about fraud generally [39:18] within the federal benefits system, [39:20] which we would welcome. [39:21] Republicans have cherry picked a blue state and an [39:24] immigrant population vulnerable to demonize. [39:27] To be clear, Minnesota is not the only state with a fraud [39:31] problem. [39:32] To truly tackle waste, fraud and abuse, [39:34] we need to approach the issue with a scalpel, not a mallet. [39:38] Discovering that people are committing fraud in the federal [39:41] program does not mean we should smash the whole thing and end it. [39:45] It means its oversight mechanisms need to be improved. [39:48] That's why it's so disappointing to see that the Minnesota House [39:51] Fraud Prevention Committee that our witness, [39:54] the Honorable Kristin Robbins chairs, [39:56] has issued no reports on these uncovered schemes. [40:00] It hasn't advanced any legislation. [40:01] It hasn't advanced any legislation to address the issue [40:04] or even shared whistleblower reports with their Democratic [40:07] colleagues. [40:08] They've just held a bunch of hearings and generated headlines, [40:11] something our committee is all too familiar with. [40:14] This hearing is not an effort by Republicans to improve social [40:18] service programs. [40:19] It's an excuse to end them and to punish Democratic-led states. [40:24] This has always been the plan. [40:26] It's why a Republican so-called big, [40:28] beautiful bill is estimated to cut more than one trillion [40:31] from Medicaid and CHIP benefits and cut SNAP for 40 million people, [40:36] the very children or folks with disabilities who were mentioned in [40:40] the opening statements. [40:42] Trump has also already taken advantage of the situation in Minnesota. [40:45] After a YouTuber harassed and posted unsubstantiated claims of fraud [40:49] against childcare centers, HHS froze childcare funding to Minnesota, [40:54] which would affect more than 23,000 children. [40:57] Just yesterday, Trump also froze approximately 10 billion children [41:00] in funding for programs supporting childcare, [41:03] social services, grants, and cash assistance in not only Minnesota, [41:07] but in other Democratic-led states of California, [41:10] Colorado, New York, and Illinois. [41:12] No matter what party we're elected to, [41:14] we represent the people of our district, [41:16] Democrat or Republican. [41:17] We represent as the federal government all people of all states, [41:20] irrespective of how they voted. [41:22] That's the charge that I took and I would like and hope that you all [41:24] would do the same. [41:25] When so many of these social service programs are being gutted and [41:28] defunded, [41:29] it's even more harmful as that means even less money is going to [41:32] people who need it. [41:33] People need these programs. [41:35] This situation should be an opportunity to take a deep look at the [41:39] programs and improve their oversight abilities, [41:42] not an excuse to cut them entirely. [41:44] If we care about the most vulnerable, [41:46] if we care about the most marginalized, [41:48] this is an opportunity to do so, [41:49] and I welcome us to actually do that one day. [41:51] Thanks, I yield back. [41:53] Ms. Lee, the IGs are hired to identify fraud. [41:57] They haven't identified fraud. [41:59] The IGs have failed. [42:01] You all have failed. [42:03] You all continue to fail. [42:05] We've done nothing. [42:06] You've had the gavel, Mr. Comer. [42:08] We barely do hearings on anything that actually affects change. [42:11] You have power here and yet you don't do anything. [42:16] Yes, he actually initiated this, sir, [42:18] but thank you so much for your opinion. [42:20] You have failed. [42:21] I yield it back. [42:22] Chair recognizes Mr. Perry from Pennsylvania for five minutes. [42:25] I thank the chairman and I'd just like to point out to everybody that at [42:29] this very moment we're going to consider an appropriations bill [42:34] that had an earmark in it for a million dollars [42:38] for another Somali-led organization whose family has ties [42:44] and convictions to ISIS and fentanyl-related addiction. [42:50] And I think it's very difficult to just for all of us [42:55] to determine what's legitimate and what's not. [42:59] But I would just ask if the committee will play the video [43:02] that Mr. Crane had referred to for me at this time. [43:07] Can you stop the... [43:12] Okay, go ahead. [43:13] We get the sound turned up. [43:20] You can see the subtitles there. [43:22] If you'll notice the campaign contribution at the bottom for $4,700 [43:39] and then the $250 million fraud scheme associated with said individuals. [43:48] Listen, ladies and gentlemen, it's not me calling out one community [43:51] or another or one individual representative or another. [43:55] It's fraud. [43:56] Representative Robbins, Hudson, and Rarick, thanks for your service. [44:02] I know it's difficult and you're operating in difficult circumstances [44:06] where it doesn't sound like you got a lot of support. [44:09] And I imagine that as Ms. Robbins, Representative Robbins, [44:14] you're the chair of the Oversight Policy Committee. [44:18] Is that right? [44:19] Yes, sir. [44:20] I imagine at the state level you don't quite have the resources [44:23] you need to track down all this stuff. [44:26] The federal jury found this. [44:28] We found that feeding our future mastermind and co-defendant [44:32] and also the contributor to one of your representatives from your state, [44:38] one of our colleagues here, $4,700 for a $250 million pandemic fraud scheme, [44:46] you don't probably have the resources to find that kind of stuff. [44:49] It's massive, right? [44:51] And I suspect as someone who you serve at the pleasure of your constituents [44:57] who want to see you elected and contribute to you, [45:01] a $4,700 campaign contribution for a $250 million of, I guess, [45:09] spending at the federal level is a pretty good investment for people. [45:13] We're not here to pick on anybody, but I will tell you I think the American people [45:17] are particularly affronted when their goodwill is returned [45:23] by stealing their hard-earned money. [45:27] I just want to, if you can comment on that particular case, [45:33] this feeding our future and the fact that these folks pled guilty to $250 million [45:40] and then connections to the political operation in your state, [45:44] which is dismantling your state. [45:48] Thank you, sir. [45:49] Yes, so this is the big problem. [45:52] There's a network of people who have been politically supporting the Democrats, [45:59] who have also been contributing to them, [46:01] and who have been involved in multiple schemes. [46:03] So a woman who is in this childcare group, [46:06] the Minnesota Minority Childcare Association, Ikram Muhammad, [46:10] she was later indicted in the feeding our future scandal, [46:13] as was her brother and her mother and I believe a sister. [46:17] And so it's a network that functions in our state that we have to get a handle on. [46:23] And then one of the people indicted in that case for feeding our future, [46:29] for money laundering, $1.1 million, [46:32] then they used that same company, shell company they did the money laundering with, [46:38] to buy property for an assisted living facility after they were indicted. [46:44] And then his wife has a company getting millions of dollars from the state [46:49] to provide services to the assisted living facility bought by his shell company [46:54] he's already been indicted for. [46:55] They do not shut off the spigot. [46:58] That's the problem. [46:59] This is completely outrageous, obviously. [47:01] I'm not an attorney. [47:02] Are any one of you three attorneys? [47:04] Yes, sir. [47:05] You said, Representative Robbins, that you informed the governor of these things. [47:11] That's what you said, right? [47:12] That's your testimony here today. [47:13] Yes, sir. [47:14] I did a hearing on it, and I brought charts and laid out the roadmap. [47:17] So there are crimes of commission and crimes of omission. [47:22] So if the governor didn't actively be involved in this fraud, [47:27] that would be a crime of commission. [47:29] But if he knew about it and didn't do anything about it, [47:32] would you consider that a crime of omission? [47:36] Yes, sir. [47:37] And what should be done about crimes of omission regarding taxpayer funds? [47:42] So they should be prosecuted. [47:44] And as you said, we don't have a lot of resources on our committee. [47:48] As legislators, we don't have access to bank records, health records, [47:51] the state payment system. [47:53] So when we get credible allegations of fraud, [47:55] we bring it to the U.S. Attorney and the Office of Legislative Auditor [47:58] because they can get access to it. [47:59] Because they can get access to those records [48:01] and then bring the prosecutions criminally. [48:03] Thank you, Chair. [48:04] Mr. Chairman? [48:06] Before I go to Ms. Randall, [48:08] Chair recognizes Mr. Biggs for UC. [48:10] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [48:12] Number one, Washington Post calls for welfare reform [48:15] after Minnesota fraud scandal. [48:17] Exclusive. [48:18] Treasury and House panel launch probes into Tim Walz's handling [48:22] of a billion dollars of food aid fraud. [48:25] Additionally, referring to the [48:31] earmark that Mr. Perry just referred to. [48:34] Additionally, the Somali fraud scandal gave Trump a kill switch. [48:39] What happens if he doesn't use it? [48:41] Resurface video shows how Somali scammers use daycare centers to scam the state. [48:46] A scrutinizing snap will help ensure the neediest get food stamps. [48:50] Master class, A.G. Hamilton schools WAPO hack playing race card [48:55] to defend Somali fraud ring in Minnesota. [48:58] Tim Walz was brought down by a scandal hiding in plain sight. [49:02] Unearthed surveillance. [49:06] Video shows parents allegedly helping with fraud. [49:09] I yield back, Mr. Chairman. [49:11] Gentleman yields back. [49:13] I'm sorry, without objection, so ordered. [49:16] Gentleman yields back. [49:17] Ms. Randall, a couple of our witnesses have requested bathroom breaks. [49:22] I told them, the ranking member and I agreed, they can go and come back. [49:27] We're going to keep the hearing going. [49:28] If your questions were pertaining to one of them, we'll skip to someone else. [49:32] Do you want to go ahead? [49:35] Chair recognizes you for five minutes. [49:37] Thank you, Mr. Chair. [49:39] You know, I have prepared some remarks that I definitely want to get to about the importance [49:45] of childcare funding for all of us and all of our districts. [49:48] I think we all recognize that we are in a childcare crisis. [49:51] We have lost so many parents, especially women, from the workforce because they just cannot [49:57] find adequate childcare. [50:00] But I have to start by addressing some of what we have heard in this committee so far. [50:07] Today, I didn't get myself together to ask any of my colleagues to yield for a question. [50:14] So I'll ask you, and if you don't know the answer, it's okay, I do. [50:20] What percent of sexual assaults in the United States are committed by white men? [50:28] I do not know. [50:29] 57%. [50:31] Of the January 6th insurrectionists who were pardoned, do you know how many have been charged [50:39] and convicted and arrested? [50:40] Of additional crimes, including child sexual assault, kidnapping, production of child pornography, [50:47] rape, conspiracy to murder an FBI agent, domestic violence by strangulation? [50:52] I do not have that information. [50:55] No. [50:56] 33 cents, their pardons. [51:00] Of the 21,504 murder offenders in the United States in 2023, do you know how many were white? [51:08] No. [51:11] 8,842? [51:12] No. [51:13] 8,842, which is 41%. [51:16] Following the domestic extremist tracker that GW compiles, since 2015, there have been 643 [51:27] individuals charged, 447% found guilty. [51:31] Do you know how many are men? [51:35] You tell me. [51:36] 95%. [51:39] We can trot out all of the data that we want to create the sense that there is a bad guy. [51:45] There is a bad group of people. [51:48] There are folks who are not among us. [51:50] There are folks who are other. [51:52] And I think we should spend a lot more time looking at ourselves, looking at American citizens, [51:59] looking at white men who are committing violence at disproportionate rates in our country, [52:07] who are committing crimes at disproportionate rates in our country, including the President of the United States, [52:14] who is sitting at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, as so many of my colleagues have pointed out. [52:18] I also want to say I've heard a lot about the Somali donors to political campaigns. [52:26] We all acknowledge that you cannot donate to a political campaign in the United States unless you are an American citizen. [52:32] I'm just going to acknowledge that. [52:35] You know who else is getting rich as a campaign donor? [52:40] The expense of the U.S. taxpayers. [52:43] And because of the decisions that this government has made. [52:47] Yes, Elon Musk. [52:49] But also billionaire Paul Singer, a Trump donor who is getting rich off the military actions that this President engaged in in Venezuela. [52:59] Now about childcare. [53:06] $7 for every $1 spent on childcare and early learning are returned to our U.S. economy. [53:11] It's good for families. [53:14] It's good for kids. [53:16] It's good for our economic growth. [53:19] But we are still facing a childcare crisis in this country. [53:24] Chair Robbins, I understand that you have three kids and that they were enrolled in daycare at one point before you became a stay-at-home mom. [53:31] What would your reaction be to an unknown, potentially armed, angry individual showing up at your home with a camera demanding to enter while your children were at home? [53:40] So we used a neighbor to do our childcare. [53:46] What if they showed up at your neighbor's house? [53:48] Yes, I don't think they would be coming in. [53:51] How would you feel about it? [53:53] How would you feel if someone who was armed and angry showed up in the house where your children were? [54:00] I'm not sure I understand. [54:01] Who was armed? [54:02] What are you asking about? [54:05] Thank you. [54:06] I imagine you'd be scared. [54:08] I think many families would be scared if that happens to you. [54:12] I want to share a story of a provider from Washington State who said following these fraud claims and the demonization of Somali-Americans and childcare workers, [54:24] I'm not sure I understand who was armed. [54:25] He said this is your vantage point. [54:27] The manufacturer had long gone Regina America to an American employer, the child care provider. [54:32] Three adults came into her home and banged on her door, startling the children in her care. [54:36] The children were frightened and confused. [54:39] She has been receiving repeated death threats by phone and voicemail. [54:42] Individuals have returned multiple times, sometimes two to three times a day parking outside the home and monitoring activity. [54:47] they reported families arriving and leaving. [54:51] As a result families felt unsafe and some withdrew their children from care. [54:53] approached by a man with a gun outside her home who interrogated her about her [54:56] child care program and she is now too scared to step outside providers aren't [55:02] answering the phone anymore because of all the threats which means that parents [55:06] aren't able to get in touch with staff regarding their children's care mr. [55:10] chairman order gentle ladies times expire you went 30 seconds over as chair [55:16] recognized mr. Gosar from Arizona Thank You mr. chairman and thanks to it is [55:20] sort of traveling now miss Robbins the Minnesota legislature led by your [55:25] committee sounded the alarm on the fraud for years but ignored by Governor Walt [55:29] where did the heat Ellison the Attorney General also be was he aware of this yes [55:36] he was aware of the fraud and he came before our committee and I I feel like [55:42] he did not do his job prosecuting these cases most of the cases have been [55:46] prosecuted federally by the US Attorney both under President Biden and feeding [55:51] our future [55:51] and currently under President Trump so he's in your state is the top attorney [55:57] for the public right yes for the public that's kind of fun very interesting well [56:02] maybe it has to do something with campaign contributions attorney out [56:05] general Ellison and his son received from members of the leading feeding our [56:10] future an organization now under investigation the same group whose [56:13] members allegedly tried to bribe jurors but I'm sure that just a coincidence [56:17] nothing to see here sounds very familiar sounds very Biden crime syndicated [56:21] ask now in when you're talking about the tools that you could use would any NGO [56:30] that takes federal funding be a value to you that they would have to disclose all [56:34] their federal funding or all their funding mechanisms as they did what penny [56:38] from the federal government yes one of the things we've seen in Minnesota is [56:41] that some of these nonprofits have had their federal 501c3 status revoked but [56:46] the state continues to fund it it's interesting you say that because you [56:50] know um because you've done a lot of having any kind of bail out work or even [56:51] the irs actually does this study actually has those numbers but when you when we order it it's [56:56] blanked out it's redacted all of it's redacted i wonder if there's some interesting aspects to that [57:02] you know follow the money trail now uh representative hudson the head of feeding [57:08] our futures was sentenced in november for his role in the largest covert fraud scheme in u.s [57:13] history according to the doj this is predictable result of the massive covid spending with little [57:19] or no oversight in fact we spent between 4.3 and 7.5 trillion dollars during covet and we don't [57:25] have a single receipt not one okay now this is a predict predictable outcome and from the massive [57:33] spending whether it's expanded covet tax credits under the so-called affordable care act or the [57:38] programs like the massive or minnesota hhs initiative with a no enrollment cap unfortunately [57:42] there are plenty of similar federal programs right here in washington dc my question for you is in [57:47] your experience what failures failures make government funding and government funding [57:50] streams particularly susceptible to fraud well as i outlined in my opening statement and my written [57:56] testimony basically we're spending far more money than we have the operational capacity to monitor [58:03] like they're just dip now deputy u.s attorney he was u.s attorney at the time joe thompson [58:08] said we can't prosecute our way out of this that's another way of saying it we have to have controls [58:13] on the front end well and and with the massive amounts like i just talked to you about in covid [58:19] you know uh it it [58:21] it actually it gives the the environment for fraud it just builds on it right correct well um [58:32] miss rarick what concrete actions did waltz the waltz administration take to [58:37] intimidate whistleblowers into silence so i think the first thing he did was he put in place [58:44] commissioners right now we have a deputy commissioner over the department of human [58:48] services that is known to whistleblowers as being like the queen of whistle of retaliation so when [58:54] you put somebody in charge [58:55] that is known to retaliate that's a problem i would also note on your previous question [59:01] about the covid money and i we discovered in our committee that the auditor so there was a bid for [59:08] auditing the covered money and the auditor was known to be our minnesota state auditor [59:13] blaha so that's another democrat within the whole fold of the democrats and malls as well [59:19] would it surprise you that we spent 13 trillion dollars from bill clinton to donald trump [59:26] uh in that span of time 13 trillion dollars with not a single receipt uh that is absolutely [59:32] shocking i used to do accounting and that's deplorable that's something that should be [59:36] you should be in prison for that yeah absolutely so um you know the united states has no obligation [59:43] to tolerate guests who break our laws and in this case there seems like there's a whole bunch of them [59:48] and and unfortunately they were targeting one general area and it sad to me that we are always [59:57] uh xenophobia all these different type of phobias and racists and yet the facts still stand so mr [1:00:04] chairman i find it very interesting that the today's hearing and i applaud you for doing it [1:00:08] thank you i yield back thank you gentlemen now our chair now recognizes the lady from texas miss [1:00:13] jasmine crockett mr chairman i'm sorry mr crockett uh chair chair recognized mr biggs i apologize for [1:00:20] that okay there's some more you see senator john kennedy brings somali fraud to the senate floor [1:00:26] viral videos david [1:00:28] says he filed complaint against waltz over fraud allegations minnesota adds medicaid fraud [1:00:32] verification amid alleged nine billion dollar loss minnesota's somali fraudsters paid for rich [1:00:37] lifestyles with stolen money what investigators still haven't asked about minnesota's fraud i [1:00:42] hope to ask that trump deploys 2 000 federal agents to minnesota venezuela has been dealt [1:00:47] with somali scammers should be next beyond parody craigslist ad from a daycare center [1:00:52] in minneapolis seeks to hire 20 child actors dr oz orders full-scale federal audit of minnesota [1:00:58] medical [1:00:59] did you miss a story about alleged medicaid fraud from a somali-run health services provider in [1:01:03] maine a youtuber's follow-up video on minnesota fraud is just as wild hhs to close biden era [1:01:10] loophole that lets states pay child care providers without counting attendance [1:01:15] yield that without objection so ordered chair now recognize miss jasmine crockett from texas [1:01:20] thank you so much mr chair and for every witness that is here thank you so much for [1:01:24] your time and your attention um i just have one quick question i have not been here the entire [1:01:30] last few days until this hearing but i don't think this question has been posed for each of [1:01:34] you and we can start at the far end do you believe that all somalis are engaged in fraud i do not and [1:01:42] i'd like to just yes or no next of course not absolutely not we have good samoa people in our [1:01:50] state okay absolutely not okay thank you so much i just want to make sure our levels sit because [1:01:55] it seems like we want to continue to especially as we just heard those particular articles [1:02:02] We want to continue to just make it seem as if if you are Somali, then somehow you are a fraudster. [1:02:09] And this administration has decided that it wants a target on their backs. [1:02:13] And so when my colleague, Miss Randall, decided that she wanted to talk about the threats that are being made towards various Somali people, [1:02:21] the reason she brought it up is because this particular side of the aisle has a tendency of if one person does something bad, [1:02:28] that especially if they are an immigrant, then we are going to cast aside that entire community. [1:02:34] So I wanted to level set. And I appreciate your honesty, because that's something that we very rarely get from my colleagues on the other side of the aisle. [1:02:41] In fact, if we want to talk about fraud, I got a lot of fraud that we don't talk about because we don't get into this. [1:02:46] But I am very curious to hear, you know, let me let me ask you, Mr. [1:02:52] Ballou, are you aware of allegations that fifty thousand dollars in? [1:02:58] Taxpayer dollars have been given to someone that is currently sitting in this administration by the name of Tom Homan. [1:03:05] Are you aware? OK, that's a yes. I am. OK. [1:03:08] And last I checked and correct me if I'm wrong, if you have different information. [1:03:13] But he was given that fifty thousand dollars in exchange for being able to provide contracts and kickbacks to people. [1:03:20] As soon as Trump was going to get into office, the DOJ was actually investigating this. [1:03:25] But as soon as Trump got into office last, I checked. [1:03:28] He actually said, go ahead and throw away that case. [1:03:32] So it was a Department of Justice investigation and he accepted the money from an undercover FBI agent in cash. [1:03:38] Are you aware as to whether or not we ever got that fifty thousand dollars back? [1:03:41] I'm not. OK. Are you aware as to whether or not this committee has decided to investigate that? [1:03:45] I'm not. Are you aware as to whether or not any committee in Congress has decided to investigate the fact that we know that he took fifty thousand dollars from an undercover officer? [1:03:55] And yet we still don't have that money, nor does he have any charges. [1:03:58] I'm not. OK. All right. So let's get into it. [1:04:01] We're living through the most corrupt presidential administration in American history. [1:04:04] A three hundred million dollar ballroom, a two hundred and thirty million dollar payout from the Department of Justice because the president got his feelings hurt because he had to be investigated for being a criminal. [1:04:15] Hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars spent at Trump owned properties around the country. [1:04:20] Trump branded wine being sold at the Coast Guard exchanges. [1:04:24] American taxpayer dollars being spent on DHS propaganda ads on truth. [1:04:28] Social awarding federal contracts to corporations in exchange for campaign contributions. [1:04:33] Cash Patel flew his girlfriend around the country on a multimillion dollar jet that taxpayers paid for. [1:04:39] Kristi Noem gave companies she's affiliated with hundreds of millions of tax dollars, then went out and spent another two hundred million dollars on two private jets for her travel. [1:04:48] For 12 months, this administration has been taking billions of taxpayer dollars from American people and have been giving it away to their own companies, [1:04:58] in the form of tax cuts, government contracts, [1:05:00] or other government-funded subsidies. [1:05:03] So Congress has a role in getting rid of fraud, [1:05:05] I will admit that, [1:05:07] in any federally-funded government program. [1:05:09] However, I think the fraud [1:05:11] that the American people are concerned about [1:05:13] is that the Republicans are taking away [1:05:15] American self-care so that ultra-billionaires [1:05:18] can get more tax cuts. [1:05:19] The real fraud is the dehumanization [1:05:21] and demonization of the working-class Americans [1:05:24] and immigrants to distract folks away [1:05:27] from corporate socialism that's happening [1:05:30] because of the Republicans. [1:05:31] So this is truly the definition of throwing away [1:05:34] the baby with the bathwater. [1:05:36] The Republican philosophy is that if the cost of living [1:05:39] for the average American increases, [1:05:41] they're on their own, [1:05:42] but if the cost of doing business increases [1:05:44] for the wealthiest people on Earth, [1:05:46] well then it's the government job to bail them out. [1:05:49] But I wanna get to my last question, [1:05:51] because Mr. Ballou, I gotta give you a chance. [1:05:54] He's been issuing pardons for numerous people [1:05:57] who have defrauded the American people, [1:06:00] and Republicans on this committee, [1:06:03] yeah, just as quiet as the room just got, right? [1:06:05] So Mr. Ballou, talk to me about how the Trump administration [1:06:08] has welcomed fraud across government [1:06:11] by purging DOJ attorneys and shuttering ethics office [1:06:14] across the federal government. [1:06:15] Well, you know, one of the things [1:06:16] that's been a common theme in this discussion so far [1:06:19] is potential government employee involvement [1:06:21] in some of these schemes. [1:06:22] That hasn't been proven yet, [1:06:23] but it does seem to be alleged. [1:06:25] The concern that I have is the office [1:06:27] that would prosecute that, [1:06:29] and in the Department of Justice, [1:06:30] the Public Integrity Section, [1:06:31] has been largely defunded and decimated. [1:06:34] Thank you so much. [1:06:35] My time has expired, [1:06:36] but I do have some UCs, Mr. Chairman. [1:06:39] You wanna do them now? [1:06:40] I do. Okay. [1:06:42] The first one is from Truthout. [1:06:44] Trump grants clemency to executive [1:06:46] who led $205 million Medicare fraud scheme. [1:06:51] Without objection to order. [1:06:52] The next one is Trump commutes sentence [1:06:54] of Dr. Solomon Melgen, eye doctor, [1:06:58] found guilty of Medicare fraud. [1:06:59] Without objection to order. [1:07:00] The next one, healthcare fraudster Philip Esfermays [1:07:04] is latest Trump clemency recipient to be arrested. [1:07:08] He defrauded more than a billion dollars from Medicare. [1:07:10] Without objection to order. [1:07:12] Trump pardons nursing home owner and supporter [1:07:16] convicted of $7 million in tax evasion. [1:07:18] Without objection to order. [1:07:20] Trump pardons- [1:07:21] And we'll want all that stuff to put in the record, so. [1:07:23] I will, I got you. [1:07:25] Trump pardons cost victims and taxpayers [1:07:29] 1.3 billion dollars. [1:07:30] House Judiciary Committee Democrats review says. [1:07:34] All right, without objection, so order. [1:07:35] Chair now recognizes Mr. Big. [1:07:37] Mr. Chairman. [1:07:37] Yes, Chair recognizes Ms. Mace. [1:07:39] Chair recognizes- [1:07:40] I have a request to be recognized to make a motion. [1:07:42] I'm sorry? [1:07:43] I have a request to be recognized to make a motion. [1:07:45] Yes, go ahead. [1:07:46] I move that the committee issue a subpoena [1:07:48] to the Department of Homeland Security [1:07:50] and the US Citizenship and Immigration Services [1:07:53] for all records related to the immigration [1:07:56] and naturalization of, or any immigration benefit received [1:07:59] by Ilhan Omar Faisal. [1:08:00] Mr. Chairman, the bill is now in motion. [1:08:03] Yes, Mr. Chairman. [1:08:04] Now, I think we can continue to review it. [1:08:06] The bill is now in motion. [1:08:08] And it's now in the name of the American People's Order [1:08:10] of Minnesota. [1:08:11] Every member of the American People's Order of Minnesota, [1:08:15] Ahmed Abd-e-Salan Irsi, also known as Ahmed Aden, [1:08:19] Abed Nur Said Elmi, [1:08:22] and any members of Ilhan Omar's family. [1:08:26] Okay. [1:08:27] Another motion has been made. [1:08:28] The committee will hold this motion in advance until the end [1:08:32] Um, on average, almost a million dollars a day in cash is being sent from Minnesota, uh, out of the country by a small group of Somali carriers. [1:08:44] Are you, any of you familiar with that on the panel? [1:08:48] I'm not familiar with that particular story, but that, um, story has been in Minnesota for a long time where millions of dollars has gone out of MSTPR airport in cash to Somalia. [1:08:59] Mr. Chairman, I ask that this be admitted as part of that. [1:09:03] Objection to ordered. [1:09:04] Thank you. [1:09:05] The Biden administration required states to pay health care and daycare providers before verifying any attendance at a daycare and before care was delivered. [1:09:14] Would you say that policy facilitated, um, the funneling of funds or, or defrauding of, of government funds? [1:09:22] We'll start with, uh, we'll go down the panel. [1:09:25] We'll start with, uh, uh, representative Robbins, please. [1:09:27] My understanding is that, um, there weren't ever enough internal controls and, but. [1:09:35] But under Medicaid rules, the the walls administration already had the, the opportunity to stop payment when there were credible allegations of fraud. [1:09:44] They had the opportunity to do prepayment review. [1:09:47] They could do all of those things and they did not use those tools. [1:09:53] Not, not only does paying people before they deliver a service introduce an obvious opportunity for people to abscond with, uh, public dollars. [1:10:01] But we've heard these arguments in our communities back in Minnesota from Minnesota Democrats. [1:10:06] That it's just. [1:10:07] so important that we pay people up front because they can't afford to wait for [1:10:10] the reimbursements yeah yeah this is absolutely counter to good accounting [1:10:15] and good accountability so I would definitely say that you should be [1:10:20] providing the service and getting paid after mr. Ballou what do you think I [1:10:24] can't speak to that policy only because I I'm learning about it just now but I [1:10:28] will say you know my so then the question then is do you think it's a [1:10:32] good idea to pay for the service upfront before it's delivered and without [1:10:36] accounting you know I can only speak to the criminal side of things not the [1:10:39] administrative side but my concern here again is to the extent that there would [1:10:43] be violations because of that change the office responsible for prosecuting okay [1:10:48] so that's so you didn't want to ask us you want to filibuster thanks brother [1:10:51] appreciate it now here where we're gonna go is one of the things that that you [1:10:55] mentioned represent Robbins is is fiscal facilities and and real estate and as [1:11:03] we've seen and looked at this as I've looked at this all of the [1:11:06] public reporting that's out there looked at a little bit of exhibit a [1:11:10] that's like 2,800 pages or 2,300 whatever it is didn't get to look at all [1:11:14] of it but looked at some of it I want to know did anybody go in and find out [1:11:20] who's owning all these properties because you have basically vacant [1:11:25] properties ostensibly holding themselves out to be dead care centers who owns [1:11:31] those properties anybody look into that so some of our staff is looking at it [1:11:36] currently and I would encourage people to think [1:11:39] about this as you look at your other states so we have people who own the [1:11:42] properties and then other people related to them or close to them that provide [1:11:46] the services and they both get remuneration and then we have people [1:11:51] who homestead assisted living facilities small single-family homes and say it's a [1:11:56] business but then they shouldn't be allowed to homestead we have instances [1:12:00] where there are multiple assisted living facilities that have been homesteaded so [1:12:05] the ownership of the properties and the ownership of the business is very [1:12:08] important this has gotten to be such a problem in Minnesota that people invest [1:12:12] in the daycare business as an investment and so getting not only who runs the [1:12:19] facility but who the ownership is is critical because that's where a lot of [1:12:22] the money goes yes that's that's my point is that you're setting up a series [1:12:27] and facilitating straw man purchases of actual real property to actually launder [1:12:34] or hide money coming from the state and defraud the state and I and I would [1:12:38] encourage both the feds and the state to really take a close look at that I [1:12:43] did I did find it interesting well let me just ask the last question I've got [1:12:49] time for here is well I got asked to the eighteen billion dollars that I'm saying [1:12:57] eighteen billion dollars that's the total nut over the last five years if I [1:13:03] understand your testimony right represent Hudson and half of it was [1:13:07] defrauded that is the estimate from the US Attorney's Office [1:13:11] okay has good as the waltz administration put into place any new [1:13:15] procedures since this has come to a very viral head in the last you know six [1:13:23] weeks they've appointed a couple of guys and shifted around a couple of chairs on [1:13:27] the deck but it's the equivalent of throwing a glass of water to stove that's [1:13:31] on fire Thank You mr. chairman I have a few more you sees if I may go ahead [1:13:35] thank you victims shocked after Biden grants clemency to kids for cash judge [1:13:41] and [1:13:42] $54 million embezzler shocked Biden clemency for convicted fraudsters met [1:13:48] with outrage it's a slap in the face Comer on Fox News Biden crime family [1:13:54] pardons serve as a confession of their corruption Biden pardons more people in [1:14:00] his criminal clan and commute sentence of Leonard Peltier op-ed from the former [1:14:08] the legislative auditor Jim Nobles what's the right number and then finally [1:14:17] mr. chairman 18 years ago I was in the White House and I was in the White House [1:14:18] cole 666 covering the criminal code that is defined in federalbons however [1:14:22] Democrats today as they quote beating robbery hence trying to throw their [1:14:25] tough enough to continue to rake up murder by appalling US code 666 theft or [1:14:29] bribery concerning programs receiving federal funds seems apt in this case [1:14:34] mr. chairman Ellia back Thank You gentlemen your track chair mass miss [1:14:38] Presley from Massachusetts Thank You mr. chair let me just begin by making this [1:14:43] plane credible fraud must be investigated and prevent it every dollar that is [1:14:48] is already struggling to make ends meet. [1:14:51] Ms. Robbins, I want to just begin with a basic question and please answer yes or no. [1:14:55] When someone is convicted of defrauding the public, do you believe that they should be [1:14:59] held accountable? [1:15:01] Yes. [1:15:04] So if we're serious about fraud, then we also have to be serious about accountability. [1:15:08] Ms. Robbins, what does, do you mind just expounding, what does accountability look like to you? [1:15:15] We want to prosecute everyone who's committed a crime and we want to fire officials in the [1:15:20] agencies that are liable for allowing the failure of internal controls. [1:15:25] Okay. [1:15:26] So Ms. Robbins, let me be more clear. [1:15:30] What should happen to fraudsters who steal public dollars? [1:15:34] They should go to jail. [1:15:36] So in my opinion, accountability means restitution, it means consequences like incarceration that [1:15:43] help ensure that it doesn't happen again, as a real deterrent in accountability. [1:15:47] It means that money taken from families and the public is returned to them. [1:15:51] But that is not the case. [1:15:52] That's the standard that is being set by Donald Trump, who was wielding his clemency authority [1:15:57] to allow fraudsters to escape accountability all together. [1:16:01] Last month, my office published a clemency report titled, Trump's Clemency Gap, how Trump's [1:16:06] pardons are ignoring the people who need them the most. [1:16:09] I ask unanimous consent to enter this into the record. [1:16:13] Thank you. [1:16:14] Now to the witnesses who serve in the Minnesota State Legislature on the Fraud Prevention [1:16:18] Committee, let's walk through these pardons for fraudsters, and we all care about fraud. [1:16:23] So, Ms. Robbins. [1:16:24] Mr. Hudson. [1:16:25] And Ms. Rarick. [1:16:26] Donald Trump pardoned George Santos, who defrauded voters, and owed them $370,000 in restitution [1:16:34] to victims. [1:16:35] Raise your hand if you oppose this pardon. [1:16:37] Thank you, Mr. Beloyed. [1:16:41] Ma'am, I would have to look at the law and the facts of the case. [1:16:44] We cannot- [1:16:45] No, listen. [1:16:46] We cannot know the facts of all these individual cases. [1:16:47] Please don't deflect. [1:16:49] This is a very public case. [1:16:51] You know who George Santos is. [1:16:52] You know exactly what he did. [1:16:54] We just agreed that- [1:16:56] You know, fraud is unacceptable, and you just talked about accountability. [1:17:01] You said if people commit fraud and exploit the public good, that they should be incarcerated. [1:17:06] So this is not a complicated question. [1:17:09] So I will give you all one more opportunity. [1:17:11] Ms. Robbins, Mr. Hudson, and Ms. Rarick, raise your hand if you oppose the pardon of [1:17:17] George Santos. [1:17:18] I'm not playing this game. [1:17:19] It's not a game. [1:17:20] It's real life. [1:17:21] It's not a game at all. [1:17:22] Okay. [1:17:23] But I will take your refusal to go on record. [1:17:24] Thank you. [1:17:25] Thank you. [1:17:26] I will take your refusal to go on record, not only as cowardice, but that you do agree [1:17:30] with that pardon of that fraudster. [1:17:32] Moving on, Donald Trump also gave, and this has never been done before, presidential pardons [1:17:37] to corporations that committed fraud. [1:17:39] One example is the crypto company BitMEX that violated US law and was fined $100 million. [1:17:47] Now raise your hand if you oppose Trump's pardon of this crypto company. [1:17:52] Not participating. [1:17:53] Thank you, Mr. Ballou. [1:17:54] Okay. [1:17:55] Again, I'll take your refusal. [1:17:56] I'll take your refusal to raise your hand in opposition. [1:18:00] That means that you support this pardon of this corporation that frauded folks to the [1:18:06] tune of $100 million. [1:18:07] Refusal to participate is not an expression. [1:18:08] Yesterday, yesterday, reclaiming my time, reclaiming my time. [1:18:09] Refusal to participate is not an expression one way or the other. [1:18:10] Reclaiming my time. [1:18:11] Do you know the rules of committee? [1:18:12] Do you know the rules of committee? [1:18:13] This is my time. [1:18:14] I know that I am here as a member of the public. [1:18:15] Do not speak over me. [1:18:16] Reclaiming my time. [1:18:17] You are not ... Mr. Chair. [1:18:18] Mr. Chair. [1:18:19] That's what I know. [1:18:20] You are not in order with the rules of the committee. [1:18:21] This is my time. [1:18:22] This is my time. [1:18:23] You are not in order with the rules of the committee. [1:18:24] This is my time. [1:18:26] I ask the questions and you answer, but you're too much of a coward to answer, so we're going [1:18:31] to move on. [1:18:32] Now, yesterday was the five year anniversary, and I want to note, of the January 6th insurrection. [1:18:39] And on Donald Trump's first day in office, he pardoned 1,500 insurrectionists, including [1:18:45] Brian Christopher Mock, who's from Minnesota. [1:18:48] Are y'all going to say you don't know who that is? [1:18:50] He's from Minnesota. [1:18:51] Now, he kicked, shoved, and threw a flagpole at police officers, you know, law enforcement [1:18:56] that you claim to support. [1:18:57] And he did all of that in the name of fraud. [1:19:02] He was an election denier. [1:19:03] So an election fraud lie. [1:19:06] Now he claims he did these things in the name of patriotism, but really he's just a criminal. [1:19:10] So raise your hand if you oppose Trump's pardon of this Minnesota individual. [1:19:15] Ma'am, this grandstanding nonsense is exactly what Minnesotans hate about D.C. [1:19:21] This is not grandstanding. [1:19:22] This is accountability. [1:19:23] This is accountability, and you are hypocrites. [1:19:24] So again, I will take your refusal to not ... [1:19:26] Thanks for demonstrating my opening statement. [1:19:27] Mrs. Chairman, I'm [1:19:50] You're out of time. [1:19:50] You're out of time. [1:19:52] You're out of time. [1:19:52] No. [1:19:52] We're out of time. [1:19:54] Mr. Chairman, I lost at least 10 seconds of my time. [1:19:56] Republicans appeal is of the purpose of returning Mr. Chairman. [1:19:56] What the ... [1:19:56] Mr. Mercury. [1:19:56] When he gave me the� nied the Ivano-S expelled me. [1:19:56] Mr. Weber. [1:19:56] Mr. Weber . [1:19:57] Met theоз Schedule. [1:19:57] Mr. Weber . [1:19:57] Met the Solesteer. [1:19:57] Ms. Presley, you've already secured your MSNBC spot tonight. [1:20:03] Your time is required. [1:20:05] Chair recognizes Ms. Mace. [1:20:06] You're going to be so good on MSNBC. [1:20:08] Chair recognizes Ms. Mace. [1:20:09] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [1:20:11] Chair recognizes Ms. Mace. [1:20:12] And, Mr. Chairman, I agree. [1:20:13] She's going to be a great host on MSNBC. [1:20:15] This is my time. [1:20:16] I wouldn't want to jump in front of Ms. Mace if I were you, Ms. Presley. [1:20:19] I reclaim my time. [1:20:20] This is my time. [1:20:21] I wouldn't want to interrupt Ms. Mace. [1:20:23] It's her time. [1:20:24] Chair recognizes Ms. Mace. [1:20:25] Mr. Chairman, she did not get all of her time. [1:20:30] Mr. Chairman, she's still out of order. [1:20:31] She wants to insult us for ten more seconds. [1:20:33] What do we have to do to get this woman in order? [1:20:35] If her time is expired, chair recognizes Ms. Mace. [1:20:38] You're going to be great on TV. [1:20:39] You're really good. [1:20:41] No, baby, you're not. [1:20:42] No, baby, you're not. [1:20:44] You are not in order. [1:20:45] You're out of order. [1:20:46] Goodbye. [1:20:47] Goodbye. [1:20:47] You're done. [1:20:48] Mr. Chairman, this is my five minutes. [1:20:50] Chair recognizes Ms. Mace. [1:20:51] Are we good here? [1:20:52] Mr. Chairman, thank you. [1:20:53] As I listen to the witnesses answer questions today, [1:20:55] I'm struck by the truly breathtaking, [1:20:57] breathtaking amount of fraud, [1:20:59] the scope and scale perpetrated against the American people [1:21:03] by Somalians in Minnesota, [1:21:06] screeching Democrats, like you just heard, [1:21:10] at our witnesses. [1:21:11] Democrats on this committee don't want to talk about Minnesota fraud [1:21:15] because Minnesota fraud is Democrat fraud. [1:21:18] You're going to make a great host on MSNBC. [1:21:20] You're going to be great. [1:21:21] And this is a cover-up. [1:21:23] I mean, the very definition of cover-up. [1:21:25] And so while we're still trying [1:21:27] to understand the scale of the fraud, [1:21:28] it appears that the amount of fraud we are talking [1:21:32] about could exceed the size of GDP in Somalia, [1:21:38] the size of its economy is what we're talking about. [1:21:41] So let that sink in, the amount of fraud we're talking about. [1:21:44] My first question is this, Mr. Balyu, this afternoon. [1:21:49] Should Somalians in Minnesota be required [1:21:51] to speak English, their citizens? [1:21:54] One, I'm here. [1:21:55] Yes or no? [1:21:55] I'm here for the legal. [1:21:56] Should they be required to speak English [1:21:57] if they're American citizens? [1:21:58] I think that question is really inappropriate. [1:22:01] Should they? [1:22:02] It's not inappropriate. [1:22:03] This is the United States of America. [1:22:04] Do you speak English? [1:22:05] Should Americans speak English? [1:22:07] Citizens speak English? [1:22:08] Yes or no? [1:22:09] Point of inquiry. [1:22:10] Is English the official language of the United States? [1:22:13] I'm just, I said a question. [1:22:14] Mr. Chairman, I'm being interrupted again [1:22:16] by another. [1:22:17] That's not a valid parliamentary inquiry. [1:22:18] I would like to reclaim my time, Mr. Chairman. [1:22:21] Mr. Chairman, I'd like to reclaim my time. [1:22:23] She's asking the witness. [1:22:24] She's asking the witness. [1:22:26] That's not a valid, that's not a valid inquiry. [1:22:27] It's a point of inquiry. [1:22:28] Women have a right to speak English. [1:22:29] I have a right to speak in this committee. [1:22:30] Conservative women have the right to speak here and not be interrupted by my male colleagues. [1:22:35] Mr. Chairman, I would like to reclaim my time. [1:22:40] I think I lost like 10 seconds there. [1:22:42] Okay, we'll give you 10 seconds. [1:22:44] Okay, my next question is, should Somalians who committed fraud be denaturalized and deported, [1:22:51] Mr. Balyu? [1:22:52] Again, I'm not sure that's an appropriate question because the majority of Somalian [1:22:56] Minnesotans are citizens. [1:22:57] So if you commit fraud in this country and you are, [1:22:59] here from Somalia, you don't believe they should be denaturalized and deported. [1:23:03] How much fraud would it take for you to want to denaturalize and deport someone who committed [1:23:07] fraud in this country? [1:23:08] How much? [1:23:09] Again, Ms. Mays. [1:23:11] A billion? [1:23:12] 9 billion? [1:23:13] 19 billion? [1:23:14] What would it take for you? [1:23:15] Most Somalian Minnesotans are citizens. [1:23:17] Right. [1:23:19] And the ones that committed fraud, the question was, if you understand English, should be [1:23:23] those who committed fraud, should they be denaturalized and deported, the Somalians who [1:23:27] are here, the ones that can't speak English? [1:23:29] Yeah. [1:23:31] All of us love the basis... [1:23:32] Okay. [1:23:33] My next question for you... [1:23:34] Can I please finish the question? [1:23:35] No, you can't because you're not answering the question. [1:23:36] My next question is, this is yes or no, if you marry your brother and you commit immigration [1:23:42] fraud, should you be denaturalized and deported? [1:23:45] Again, that... [1:23:46] If you commit immigration fraud, yes or no? [1:23:48] Again, that question seems really inappropriate. [1:23:50] And if I can get back to your question... [1:23:52] Well, you can't answer my question, so that's probably more inappropriate. [1:23:55] Can you name one significant contribution to Minnesota from a Somali immigrant who can't [1:23:59] speak English? [1:24:00] Absolutely. Yes. But again, this is you didn't name one. All right. So my next questions are [1:24:05] going to be for the Honorable Ms. Robbins. Good afternoon. Thank you all for being here today. [1:24:10] I heard some discussion earlier about Al-Shabaab and the discovery that you believe some of this [1:24:18] money that was defrauded the U.S. government went to Al-Shabaab. Is that correct? Did I hear that [1:24:23] right? Yes, it's been proven. How much money are we talking about? You know, we don't have an [1:24:28] amount. So there has been specific cases where it's been charged where we have an amount, [1:24:32] but then of the millions that go to Somalia over the years and remittances, a portion of that we [1:24:39] understand is taken as sort of a tax or, you know, corruption by Al-Shabaab when it enters [1:24:46] the country. Can you explain to us who Al-Shabaab is? It's a terrorist organization in Somalia. [1:24:51] And they're affiliated with Al-Qaeda. Is that right? My understanding is they are. [1:24:55] I am on the DNI website where it tells me that since 2014, Al-Shabaab has killed more [1:25:02] U.S. citizens than any other U.S. citizen. And I'm not sure if that's true. I'm not sure if that's [1:25:02] true. I'm not sure if that's true. I'm not sure if that's true. I'm not sure if that's true. I'm not sure if that's true. [1:25:02] I mean, [1:25:29] this group is Al-Qaeda's wealthiest component. Can you believe that? Yes. And that American [1:25:36] tax dollars through Minnesota, through Governor Tim Walz, who shamefully had to resign from his [1:25:42] reelection the other day. Thank you to the young YouTuber Nick Shirley. This is the kind of thing [1:25:49] that was happening in Minnesota. So I praise the Republicans who are here today from the Minnesota [1:25:54] state legislature exposing this fraud. And then, Ms. Robbins, when do you think Tim Walz became [1:26:00] aware of the fraud? I think he's been aware of it since the beginning. This was a huge issue in our [1:26:05] state in the year he ran for governor. And the OLA reports came out first identifying the child [1:26:11] care fraud in March and April of 2019 when he was in the first months of his term. Was Keith [1:26:17] Ellison in on it too, knowledgeable, the Catholic turned Muslim guy in Minnesota? Yes, they were all [1:26:24] newly in office and this was very public knowledge in Minnesota. What role do you think Tim Walz and [1:26:29] Keith Ellison played, his administration in delaying investigations into the fraud? So I've [1:26:34] outlined several things where they stopped our ability to strengthen internal controls and they [1:26:41] also shut down the [1:26:42] criminal investigations by the OIG and DHS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. I do have two [1:26:48] articles, Mr. Chairman, that I would like to ask unanimous consent. Proceed. Proceed. This one on foxnews.com, [1:26:54] Minnesota fraud probe will expand to other states. And then on house.gov, legislators blast DHS for [1:27:02] revelations it had contracts with feeding our future fraudsters. Without objection to order, [1:27:06] chair, somebody else take recognition. Chair recognizes Ms. Ansari. Mr. Chair, I'd like to [1:27:13] start with a U.C. request, an article from the Washington Post titled Trump amplifies conspiracy [1:27:18] theories on killing a Minnesota lawmaker. As we know, the president shared a video. Without [1:27:23] objection to order. Thank you. So I want to start with this question for the lawmakers here from [1:27:28] Minnesota. As you know, Donald Trump has been posting these conspiracy theories about the linking [1:27:35] Governor Walz to the killing of your former speaker and insinuating that Governor Walz had [1:27:40] something to do with it. Can you please raise your hand if you think this is an [1:27:43] appropriate action by the president of the united states raise your hand please i'm not doing a [1:27:49] raise your hand i'm happy to comment on it sure is it appropriate for the president to do that [1:27:53] so the person who murdered our colleague speaker melissa hortman and her husband mark answer the [1:27:59] question in his appropriate for the president of the united states evidence saying cause violence [1:28:04] against him was ordering him to do it i know the facts will come out in the case and we need to be [1:28:11] respectful of the hortman family and we need to let this play out in the courts that is unacceptable [1:28:17] it is un inappropriate to the highest degree for the president of the united states to be sharing [1:28:22] conspiracy theories that are obviously going to lead to violence directed at governor tim walsh [1:28:27] now moving on to the issue here today we all care deeply about combating waste fraud preventing [1:28:32] corruption and holding bad actors accountable unfortunately this country has seen an unprecedented [1:28:39] avalanche of [1:28:41] such abuse in the past year all stemming from the trump administration the most corrupt and the most [1:28:47] wasteful administration in american history it is truly amazing that the majority moves so quickly [1:28:53] to hold basically an emergency hearing on the situation in minnesota without without ever one [1:28:59] time having held a hearing on the national crisis that is the trump criminal enterprise being run [1:29:06] out of the white house i don't even know where to begin [1:29:11] i think the majority would be interested in holding a hearing on the fifty thousand dollar cash bribe [1:29:15] that borders are tom homan received from fbi undercover agents in a kava bag or how about a [1:29:21] hearing on the 400 million dollar bribe that donald trump presented by multi-billion dollar [1:29:28] companies in the form of the white house ballroom that donald trump seems most obsessed with do [1:29:34] republicans have any interest in holding a hearing on that corruption scandal or the fraudsters and [1:29:41] the criminals that donald trump has pardoned he freed george santos convicted of theft of public [1:29:47] funds he pardoned paul walzak convicted of millions of dollars in tax fraud after walzak's mother raised [1:29:54] money for trump's campaign he released the former president of honduras sentenced to 45 years [1:30:01] for flooding the united states with oceans of cocaine and these are just a few examples i [1:30:07] haven't even brought up doge and elon musk corruptions trump's firing [1:30:11] of inspectors general who are in place to root out fraud and career u.s attorneys who are doing [1:30:16] the bidding of donald trump in prosecuting his personal and political enemies is there any [1:30:22] interest in holding an oversight hearing on any of those issues now i want to talk about one [1:30:28] specifically in appalling instance of blatant corruption in the trump white house reported by [1:30:33] the new york times that the republican majority has shown literally zero interest in investigating [1:30:40] this is regarding the fact that the white house has shown literally zero interest in investigating [1:30:41] this is regarding the fact that the white house has shown literally zero interest in investigating [1:30:41] this is regarding the fact that the white house has shown literally zero interest in investigating [1:30:41] world liberty financial the cryptocurrency company founded in 2024 by eric trump donald [1:30:48] trump jr alex whitkoff and zach whitkoff among others if those names sound familiar [1:30:55] it is because the company is a joint project by the trump and whitkoff families [1:31:00] steve whitkoff being trump's special envoy in the middle east you may think that the [1:31:05] president's financial interest in a secretive cryptocurrency exchange may be bad enough [1:31:11] but it gets so much worse than that emirati investment firm mgx invested 2 billion dollars [1:31:18] in the trump whitkoff crypto business personally enriching the sitting president of the united [1:31:23] states his family and whitkoff as a white house employee this is at the same time that whitkoff [1:31:31] is an envoy to the middle east he's the one negotiating with the emiratis as an official [1:31:36] representative of the united states government while whitkoff and his co-workers have been [1:31:41] negotiating this private crypto deal steve whitkoff was also in charge of negotiating [1:31:47] with the very same officials as a u.s official to give the emirati something they desperately [1:31:53] wanted from us highly advanced and specialized computer chips to make the corruption even more [1:32:00] explicit just after the crypto deal went through donald trump gave his go-ahead for the transfer [1:32:05] of hundreds of thousands of advanced chips to the emiratis despite the extremely extremely [1:32:11] concerning national security implications it's perhaps one of the largest and most obvious [1:32:16] corruption schemes in u.s history implicating a foreign government paying off the president of [1:32:22] the united states and the white house to the tune of literally billions of dollars in exchange for [1:32:28] sensitive u.s technologies so please let the republicans spare us with their faint concerns [1:32:34] about waste fraud and corruption i yield back gentle lady yields back cherry glasses mr fallon [1:32:40] from texas [1:32:47] thank you mr chairman thank you we're here today to in this hearing because there exists damning [1:32:52] and overwhelming evidence of massive industrial scale fraud occurring in minnesota right now and [1:32:57] it's been going on for years this is a huge story and while many want to ignore it deflect from it [1:33:03] or be masters of obfuscation which we have seen here today this should be a page one front and [1:33:09] center above the fold headline for media outlets across the country but it's not and i think it's [1:33:16] very interesting abc nbc nbc nbc nbc nbc nbc nbc nbc nbc nbc nbc nbc nbc nbc nbc nbc [1:33:17] cbs vaske [1:33:25] be a headline and unfortunately it's a back page back page fine print [1:33:30] still as bad as the network's coverage albeit you know it's ludicrously [1:33:34] ludicrously abysmal it's better than cnn this very morning cnn ran 51 stories on its website [1:33:42] including such riveting breaking news articles such as dogs that are trained to stiff mold a flock of [1:33:48] K-sheep, K-pop's newest release entitled Demon Hunters, inside glimpse of P. Diddy Combs' [1:33:55] prison cell, and Chinese robots playing soccer, but nary a mention of the tens of billions [1:34:02] of dollars of American taxpayer money that's been stolen from honest folks in America by [1:34:08] scumbag thieves. [1:34:10] This is the Oversight Committee. [1:34:12] We should have one overriding emotion, whether it's Republican or Democrat. [1:34:16] We should all be outraged that crooks and thieves and dirtbags are robbing the American [1:34:22] people. [1:34:23] So I was very curious to see how the Democrats would play today. [1:34:27] Would they expose this fraud and be willing to work with us, or would they go to their [1:34:32] playbook of Donald Trump bad, and when we were in Doge, it was Elon Musk and billionaires [1:34:38] bad, and they didn't, they haven't really disappointed. [1:34:42] January 6th as well has been mentioned, has nothing to do with what we're talking about [1:34:46] today. [1:34:47] In the comments, even bizarrely talked about presidential pardons, and he railed against [1:34:51] POTUS. [1:34:52] It's nothing to do with the matter at hand. [1:34:53] But for the record, Joe Biden issued 250% more pardons and commutations than Donald [1:34:59] Trump. [1:35:00] In fact, 2,545 more. [1:35:02] Again, back to the matter. [1:35:04] This money's been stolen systemically by a gang of thieves, while the very people charged [1:35:09] with the oversight, namely the Walz administration, have been complicit. [1:35:13] They've looked the other way. [1:35:15] And the Democrats didn't disappoint either with isms. [1:35:17] Isms. [1:35:18] Isms and phobes, quotes like bigotry and hatred, and were hypocritical witch hunt. [1:35:24] And then they were taking a hero, Nick Shirley, trying to make him a villain. [1:35:28] Mr. Chairman, I'd like you to enter into the record an article, it's not racist to notice [1:35:34] Somali fraud. [1:35:35] Without objection to order. [1:35:37] 98 defendants that have been charged thus far in this case, and I think it'll end up [1:35:40] being hundreds, happen to be, 85 of them happen to be of Somalian descent. [1:35:44] It's just a fact, despite how unfortunate and inconvenient these truths may be to leftists. [1:35:49] The Assistant U.S. Attorney General's Office of Justice, the U.S. Attorney General's Office [1:35:50] of Justice, and the Assistant U.S. Attorney, Joe Thompson, thinks that this fraud can [1:35:53] equivalent to maybe $9 billion. [1:35:55] The entire federal budget of the country Somalia is $1.2 billion. [1:36:01] Medicaid fraud does exist in all 50 states, but uncovering it aggressively clearly is [1:36:07] not a blue state priority. [1:36:09] If you talk to any expert, I was in the state legislature for eight years, they will tell [1:36:12] you objectively that no matter where it is, about 10 to 20% of all Medicaid spending is [1:36:19] fraudulent. [1:36:21] They spent $96 billion. [1:36:24] So did they recover in fraud, 9.6 billion, 960 million? [1:36:28] No, it was a pittance. [1:36:29] It was six one-hundredths of 1% was recovered. [1:36:34] In the state of Minnesota, 18 billion. [1:36:36] It was eight one-hundredths of 1% recovered. [1:36:40] Representative Robbins and the other reps, thank you for coming. [1:36:43] Thank you for your courage. [1:36:44] You know you're going to be smeared, and I'm not going to ask you, raise your hand. [1:36:48] We're going to have a conversation, okay? [1:36:50] Okay. [1:36:51] Representative Robbins, when you first uncovered this tectonic fraud, what was the reaction [1:36:57] and actions taken by the Walz administration and your Democratic colleagues? [1:37:01] Was it working hand-in-hand to create synergy and offer full support and help to unmask [1:37:06] this fraud, or did you face significant headwinds and fierce pushback to the point of opposition? [1:37:11] Throughout our hearings, they would either deny or deflect or say, oh, they've handled [1:37:16] it or they're new on the job and they don't know. [1:37:19] So those were the answers in the tenor of our hearing. [1:37:22] I provided documents to them outlining, as I said, in February of 72 child care centers [1:37:27] I thought they should look at. [1:37:28] They haven't done it. [1:37:29] I've sent six FOIA requests or data requests that have not been responded to. [1:37:34] So they have not been good partners in rooting this out. [1:37:37] So block votes in Minnesota in 2016, it was so close that I think Hillary Clinton won [1:37:43] the state by about 44,000 votes. [1:37:46] But if you have block 50,000 you can rely on in Minneapolis, that's rather helpful to [1:37:50] win an election in Minnesota. [1:37:51] But you know what? [1:37:52] Mr. Chairman, our Democratic colleagues, whether they be in Minnesota or here on this [1:37:56] oversight committee, they'll eventually lure you back. [1:38:00] Gentleman yields back, chair recognizes Mr. Bell from Missouri. [1:38:03] Thank you, Mr. Chair, ranking member, and our witnesses for being here today. [1:38:12] I believe in protecting our social services and recognize the need for comprehensive legislation [1:38:19] that ensures transparency in the collection and use of federal funds to support these [1:38:25] critical programs. [1:38:26] The resources provided through social services ensure the welfare of the everyday person [1:38:37] and family, and these resources and individuals deserve to be protected. [1:38:43] These protections should come at all times, not just when politically beneficial. [1:38:48] What we're witnessing from President Trump and this administration is an attempt to use [1:38:55] social services and the welfare of the American people. [1:38:57] Thank you. [1:38:57] What does that значит? [1:38:58] It maintains the [1:39:24] spirit of печ ذکwei moeten д kitchen ofګ [1:39:26] DIY喂 [1:39:26] You can buy whatever you want. [1:39:26] You can buy unоры [1:39:27] Stand up and talk. [1:39:27] You can do anything. [1:39:28] You can also listen to a show. [1:39:29] I have no rights of the basis that you are listening to. [1:39:29] assistance programs, implementing harmful tariffs, and advancing legislation such as the one big [1:39:36] ugly bill, the administration's actions have ultimately caused more harm than good for the [1:39:42] American people. Reports show that since taking office, President Trump has raised the average [1:39:50] cost of living. Health insurance costs have risen by hundreds of dollars for the average person, [1:39:56] with insurance plans increasing by more than 20 percent. Housing costs remain at an all-time high, [1:40:05] and every day grocery items show a steady increase, with prices rising by 15 to 20 percent. [1:40:15] We cannot pick and choose when to care for the American people. The actions of this administration [1:40:21] show a pattern. They first target our most vulnerable communities, and then gut the [1:40:29] very most vulnerable communities. We cannot pick and choose when to care for the American people. [1:40:29] resources to help them. Today, it is our Somali communities and our child care [1:40:37] assistance. Tomorrow, it could be your communities and the resources you and your family rely on for [1:40:46] well-being. At its core, this is about the well-being of the American people. If we truly [1:40:53] cared about those we have sworn to represent, we would be working to dismantle all the [1:41:01] challenges that we face. We would be working to dismantle all the challenges that we face. [1:41:01] not just the ones that serve political interests. Mr. Bailu, President Trump has recently made [1:41:11] comments on efforts to freeze child care funding in California, Colorado, Illinois, and New York. [1:41:18] Would these actions benefit or harm children and families? [1:41:22] Oh, of course they're going to harm it. [1:41:24] President Trump has fired thousands of employees across critical departments [1:41:29] and has issued Executive Order 14356, restricting agents from doing so. [1:41:34] More often agradeing parties, BYOOS, and書 of States stellings who are [1:41:40] takinglower sides notわかing changes or injuries and reporting this as illegal. [1:41:43] Mr. Bailu, your round today thanks a lot, Mr. President. [1:41:45] I've heard a lot from a number of people. [1:41:48] Thank you. [1:41:49] We hope as a potem, you achieved the same [1:41:53] work for just a few days. [1:41:54] Yes, when I first listened to Mr. Bailu, I was convinced he had figured it out. [1:41:59] And I think when you think about the consumer experience as well, it's just something you [1:42:03] cannot absolutely ignore. [1:42:03] Yes. [1:42:04] You're right. [1:42:04] It's true. [1:42:04] The challenge that we've got right now is the administration has announced a plan to disband the tax division of the Department of Justice entirely, and that's going to make it much harder to prosecute these sorts of crimes. [1:42:14] And can you speak from your work as a federal prosecutor on how President Trump's actions have contradicted his promises to the American people? [1:42:24] Well, to the extent that this administration says that it cares about waste, fraud, and abuse, you know, it seems like that is a selective care. [1:42:31] You can look at cases like Paul Walzak, who, you know, was convicted of fraud and withheld $10 million to his own employees in nursing homes. [1:42:43] His mother attended a $1 million plate fundraiser with the president, and Mr. Walzak was quickly pardoned. [1:42:50] Now, this has happened literally dozens of times where favored defendants either had their prosecutions dropped or were pardoned entirely. [1:42:58] Thank you. I yield back. [1:42:59] Gentleman yields back. Chair, I'm going to answer Mr. Grofman from Wisconsin. [1:43:04] Sure. I'm sorry we had another briefing in the building, so I don't want to go over past things. [1:43:10] But during your initial testimony, Ms. Rarick, you talked about people being threatened who are whistleblowers. [1:43:17] Do you know who those people were? Were they, like, people who made money off of this, political operatives? [1:43:24] You know, could you elaborate on that a little? [1:43:29] Yes, thank you. [1:43:30] So the people that were doing the threatening were the supervisors and directors. [1:43:36] They were the whistleblowers within the state agencies. [1:43:40] So state employees were threatening—physically threatening—whistleblowers. [1:43:46] They were saying things like, what happens if you lose your home, right? [1:43:51] Because if you lose your job, you lose your home. [1:43:53] They had pictures in their personnel files of their own homes and their cars. [1:43:59] They asked where their children went to school and where their bus stop was. [1:44:04] So there was direct threats and indirect threats. [1:44:08] Okay. [1:44:10] Were any of these people brought to justice, or this is just the way they deal with things in Minnesota? [1:44:16] You know, an interesting thing within the Walz administration, those people were promoted. [1:44:22] He just defines evil, doesn't he? Almost Vice President of the United States. [1:44:29] There's a good book out there called The Tragedy of America and Compassion. [1:44:34] And in it, they went over the history of welfare and whether it should be done better. [1:44:43] So I'm wondering if you feel that perhaps a motive for all the crookedness is, given the size of government today, the importance of wins elections, [1:44:52] were they motivated a little bit by getting votes of groups of people? [1:44:56] Is this a danger to our—we're not a democracy, of course, but is it a danger to our form of government? [1:45:03] So I'll answer really quickly, and then I'll pass it over to Representative Hudson. [1:45:07] Just really quickly, the caveat to this, which is so bizarre in Minnesota, [1:45:13] is the fact that state employees, by and large, are Democrats. [1:45:14] And they vote Democrat. [1:45:16] And the Walz administration, including Flanagan and his former chief of staff, Schmitter, [1:45:21] were so brutal that these former Democrat employees want nothing to do with the Democrat party anymore in Minnesota [1:45:31] because they have been treated so horrifically. [1:45:34] What's so sinister about this is that you're right, that it absolutely is for electoral benefit and political benefit, [1:45:42] but it's sold to one half of the population. [1:45:46] And to the independents and to the conservatives. [1:45:49] As we're giving people a hand up, we're going to help people who are in need, [1:45:53] we're going to give them a temporary way back into working life. [1:45:57] But they've set up an industry that's perpetual, where people just stay where they're at. [1:46:01] Right. So there's really an electoral incentive to make sure people don't get out of poverty. [1:46:07] I'll give you another question. [1:46:08] I used to be in the state legislature myself in Wisconsin, and I know that when we put together your budget, [1:46:15] we're talking about Fed funds, unlike money that Wisconsin was getting in through our own income or sales tax. [1:46:24] Insofar as the legislature is playing with Fed funds, you're not exactly as maybe careful with every dollar that's flowing through. [1:46:34] And I'm trying to think what we can do to prevent this, because you're always going to have given political parties [1:46:39] who think they can benefit from government largesse. [1:46:43] And I think government, by its nature sometimes, [1:46:46] is a little sloppy. [1:46:47] Do you think the Minnesota government would be a little bit more careful here, [1:46:53] if on the various programs, and it varies from program to program, [1:46:58] but if the state had to pick up 10 or 15 or 20 or 30 percent of the program so that they had skin in the game? [1:47:07] Thank you, sir. [1:47:10] Yes, in a lot of these programs, the state does have skin in the game. [1:47:13] So many of them, Minnesota roughly has a 50-50 Medicaid match. [1:47:18] So many of them, it's federal tax dollars, but it's also state tax dollars. [1:47:23] So we are paying for it twice, for our state tax dollars and then when we pay our federal. [1:47:27] I know, I think Wisconsin, when I was there, was about a 60-40 match with the Feds picking up 60. [1:47:33] And that came into play. [1:47:36] But I gather there's some programs on here that maybe the state matches zero. [1:47:40] Is that accurate? [1:47:42] I would have to look at each program. [1:47:44] I don't know for sure. [1:47:46] Okay. [1:47:47] I'll ask you just as state legislators. [1:47:50] Different state legislators look at this question differently. [1:47:54] Do you think as a country on some of these programs, we should be asking some of the programs that are 100 percent Fed funded now, [1:48:02] we'd be better off if they were maybe 70 percent Fed funded or 75 percent Fed funded [1:48:09] so the states would have a little bit more of a skin in the game. [1:48:16] I'll put it that way. [1:48:17] And a concern I would have, insofar as there are programs in which the state is picking up nothing, [1:48:24] really the incentive is to have more graft because you're just bringing Fed funds for the state. [1:48:31] Yes, sir. [1:48:32] So we need to make sure the states have skin in the game so that they administer the programs properly [1:48:36] because otherwise their incentive is to draw down more federal money, more federal money, [1:48:40] to take the burden off state taxpayers. [1:48:42] But we're all taxpayers, so somebody's paying. [1:48:45] There's no such thing as a free lunch. [1:48:47] Right. [1:48:48] And not just no such thing as a free lunch. [1:48:50] It encourages state legislators to look the other way. [1:48:55] Because you're just bringing that money into the state. [1:48:58] I kind of felt that way about Medicaid, but thanks. [1:49:00] I'm sorry, Glenn. [1:49:06] Gentlemen, time's expired on that. [1:49:08] Yeah, yeah. [1:49:09] Okay. [1:49:10] Chair recognizes who's next? [1:49:12] Ms. Simon. [1:49:17] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [1:49:20] I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record a January 6, 2026 article from the New York Times Health Department [1:49:27] to freeze $10 billion in funding to five Democratic states. [1:49:31] Without objection to order. [1:49:32] Thank you, sir. [1:49:34] I appreciate us having this conversation, and I do apologize to our witnesses. [1:49:38] Being in the last briefing took us out of this space, [1:49:42] but you coming here to provide us some opportunity to discuss this is important [1:49:46] because I think it is true. [1:49:48] We have to recognize that fraud is fraud and theft is theft. [1:49:53] And anybody, and I say anyone, who takes away food out of the mouths of children, [1:49:59] who denies childcare to women, particularly young women, [1:50:05] who are going to school, [1:50:06] and working, and doing everything right, [1:50:08] who need a little hand up, [1:50:10] I don't know who in here has had to walk their baby to childcare [1:50:15] and go to school full time and work full time as a young mom. [1:50:18] I know I did. [1:50:19] And I know that I received, but 27 years ago, childcare stipends. [1:50:26] So we can be mad at the criminals in every state, including your state, [1:50:31] who took resources from children. [1:50:34] But I also want to go back to the unanimous consent [1:50:36] that I just talked about. [1:50:37] I think we don't have to go too far back, [1:50:41] maybe two days, to recognize that the President of the United States [1:50:45] and the administration is halting billions of dollars now, [1:50:49] billions of dollars to childcare providers and centers around this country. [1:50:55] In fact, I have a story that we just received in my office. [1:51:01] We heard today that there needs to be accountability. [1:51:06] But what about accountability [1:51:08] for a young woman that we talked to today in our office, [1:51:11] who was told by her childcare center, [1:51:14] and she is going to school full time at the local community college, [1:51:17] that the President of the United States will be halting all funding, [1:51:23] and within six weeks, she may not have an opportunity [1:51:26] to continue her studies, because guess what? [1:51:29] There's a party in power that wants to punish the poor, [1:51:34] not just in democratic states, but all over the country. [1:51:39] The reducing of SNAP benefits, [1:51:42] the shocking taking away of resources from sick children, [1:51:46] the halting, the halting, and I'll say it again, [1:51:50] the stopping of clinical trials for sick babies. [1:51:56] What we will do as Democrats is acknowledge that fraud is fraud. [1:52:01] What we will not do is allow a conversation to go on [1:52:05] to problematize immigrants in this country, writ large. [1:52:10] Can you imagine a society [1:52:12] where we took the wrong of a small few [1:52:16] and relegated that wrong to a whole community? [1:52:19] Well, that's what we're doing here today, [1:52:22] not just in Minnesota, but now accusing thousands [1:52:26] and thousands of childcare providers all over the country [1:52:30] before they get their day in court, [1:52:33] proposing that they, in fact, [1:52:35] shouldn't be taking care of kids across the country. [1:52:38] I think it's shocking. [1:52:40] This story that I want to end my quick testimony with, [1:52:44] Nancy Harvey, she's a childcare provider in Oakland, California, [1:52:48] where I represent a beautiful constituency. [1:52:52] She's in my congressional district. [1:52:53] Nancy has been a long-term childcare provider [1:52:57] and advocate for early care and education for our babies, [1:53:02] no matter who their parents vote for, [1:53:04] services that we know that are critical for every child, [1:53:07] every child. [1:53:09] Collective punishment is what the folks across the aisle want to do. [1:53:12] We know it's wrong, it's reckless, [1:53:14] and we know it's not fair. [1:53:16] The federal administration, we believe, [1:53:19] must immediately reverse course [1:53:21] so that families have access to vital federal funds [1:53:25] that they are entitled to, [1:53:27] because you have a party that says [1:53:30] they want everyone to work in this country. [1:53:34] You want everyone to do their fair share. [1:53:37] And yet, because we are so angry at a small few folks [1:53:42] who, in fact, broke the law, [1:53:44] that we want to create a collective punishment [1:53:46] for all poor people, [1:53:47] working families, who are trying to do that. [1:53:48] I want to make sure that you understand [1:53:49] that the federal administration is doing their best. [1:53:52] I don't have any questions, because they have been answered. [1:53:55] This is a politic of cruelty. [1:53:59] This is a politic of anti-family. [1:54:01] This is a politic of anti-poverty. [1:54:05] And for someone who grew up in poverty, [1:54:09] I know how it feels when you wait and wait and wait [1:54:11] to just get a chance to do better. [1:54:13] And folks who've never met you, talked to you, [1:54:16] believe in you or love you, [1:54:19] is doing to millions of children because of this halting of funding and i yield back gentle lady [1:54:26] yields back chair can i ask mr higgins from louisiana thank you mr chairman miss robbins [1:54:32] and mr hudson ms rarick you're all members of the minnesota state legislature is that correct [1:54:39] yes sir and ms robbins you're the the chair of the fraud prevention uh oversight committee is [1:54:46] that correct yes and mr hudson and ms rarick you're members of that committee as well correct [1:54:53] yes sir all right so you you you three collectively uh america should clearly understand [1:55:01] you have an excellent perspective what's going on inside minnesota in specifically regards to [1:55:08] the fraud that we are investigating and discussing today is that correct yes okay so we have [1:55:18] a [1:55:19] particular community a somali community in minnesota that has stunning percentages or [1:55:28] participating in government programs where they're drawing a lot of money big money this has been [1:55:35] discussed and revealed and reported and is factual you have a tremendous amount of uh criminal fraud [1:55:43] taking place that one of my colleagues the gentleman from the other side of the aisle mentioned [1:55:50] transparency i was would argue that from a regular american's perspective it's quite transparent [1:55:57] that something criminal is going on when you have billions of dollars disappearing into child care [1:56:03] centers with no children in them and and you have a tremendous transfer of wealth into a relatively [1:56:10] small place immigrant community you have nine billion that's nine thousand million dollars missing [1:56:22] in the last few years. [1:56:25] It's alleged to be fraudulently stolen. [1:56:29] They're sending money, the Somali community in Minnesota, [1:56:32] sending money, big money, overseas. [1:56:36] They're contributing money, big money, [1:56:38] to Democrat candidates and elected officials. [1:56:44] The Democratic political machine in Minnesota [1:56:48] has benefited from this criminal network of Somali immigrants [1:56:54] who have systematically stolen billions of dollars [1:56:57] of federal charitable money, essentially. [1:57:01] The good lady, my colleague, clarified, [1:57:04] this is money designed for poor folk that need a hand up, [1:57:10] and we generally want that to happen in America [1:57:13] in an effective manner. [1:57:16] So this is the scenario that we are looking into today. [1:57:23] Have I summed it up fairly well? [1:57:25] Ms. Robbins? [1:57:26] Yes, sir. [1:57:27] And I would just like to add... [1:57:28] Reuben, before you add, Mr. Hudson, [1:57:31] is this an effective summary, sir? [1:57:33] Yes, sir, it is. [1:57:34] Thank you. Ms. Rarick? [1:57:36] Yes. [1:57:36] Thank you. [1:57:37] So from the perspective of members [1:57:40] of the Fraud Investigative Committee [1:57:43] of the Minnesota State Legislature, [1:57:46] we have a large criminal network [1:57:49] with high percentages of participation [1:57:53] in that criminal network from the Somali community, [1:57:56] which is a community in Minnesota. [1:57:58] That community has tremendous influence [1:58:01] within the political arena, [1:58:03] specifically within the Democrat political arena [1:58:06] in Minnesota. [1:58:07] The Democrat political machine has been covering [1:58:11] for this criminal network, [1:58:13] and here we go to Governor Walz's involvement here, [1:58:19] which is shocking to me, quite frankly, [1:58:21] because I've been friendly with Governor Walz for many years. [1:58:24] I served with him here. [1:58:26] But can you discuss for me [1:58:31] the governor's administration's involvement [1:58:35] in intimidation and oppression [1:58:41] and retaliation against whistleblowers? [1:58:43] Ms. Robbins, have you had conversations [1:58:46] with whistleblowers who have been treated like that [1:58:49] by the Walz administration? [1:58:51] Yes, I have. [1:58:52] And can you tell us about that? [1:58:55] Without naming the person or revealing stuff that's secret, [1:58:58] Ms. Rarick? [1:58:59] Tell us how that retaliation would happen. [1:59:02] So it happens in a variety of ways. [1:59:04] They are demoted or reassigned, [1:59:08] or they are told that they could lose their job [1:59:11] and then their house or their pension [1:59:13] or their retirement benefits [1:59:15] or not qualify for unemployment. [1:59:17] So it's... [1:59:18] Well, that's very serious. [1:59:20] That's a very serious allegation. [1:59:22] I would say that's criminal retaliation. [1:59:26] Mr. Hudson and Ms. Rarick, have you seen similar? [1:59:30] I would defer to Representative Rarick. [1:59:34] Yes, so Representative Robbins [1:59:36] and once in a while Representative Hudson [1:59:37] have had multiple conversations with whistleblowers [1:59:40] and that is exactly what they said to us, [1:59:42] especially in a face-to-face meeting in St. Paul. [1:59:46] That is exactly what they said. [1:59:47] Mr. Chairman, my time has expired, [1:59:49] but this leans into the criminal spectrum, sir. [1:59:53] I yield. [1:59:56] Gentleman yields back. [1:59:56] Chair recognizes Mr. Walkinshaw from Virginia. [1:59:59] I think I was here first. [2:00:00] They told me Walkinshaw. [2:00:03] I'm happy to... Okay. [2:00:04] Defer. [2:00:05] Yeah. [2:00:05] Thank you. [2:00:06] And Mr. Minn? [2:00:10] I'm just doing what the Democrat staff says, [2:00:12] Walkinshaw's next. [2:00:14] All right, thank you, Mr. Chairman. [2:00:15] Let me just start with something simple. [2:00:17] I think we're all agreed upon today. [2:00:19] Fraud is real, fraud is wrong, [2:00:22] and fraud should be prosecuted, period. [2:00:25] And those who stole the taxpayer dollars in Minnesota [2:00:29] or anywhere else should face the full force of the law. [2:00:32] But what we're seeing today and the premise of this hearing [2:00:35] is selective outrage [2:00:37] about fraud. [2:00:39] Because if my Republican colleagues actually cared [2:00:42] about stopping fraud, [2:00:45] they would not be defending the one president [2:00:47] in modern history [2:00:49] who is systematically tearing down the institutions [2:00:52] designed to prevent it, [2:00:54] the one president in history [2:00:57] who has pardoned fraudster after fraudster after fraudster. [2:01:04] But Donald Trump didn't just pardon those convicted of fraud. [2:01:07] He's gone after the people whose job it is [2:01:11] to find fraud. [2:01:14] He fired the independent inspector general [2:01:16] at the State Department. [2:01:18] He fired the independent inspector general [2:01:20] of the intelligence community. [2:01:22] He removed the acting inspector general [2:01:24] at Health and Human Services in the middle of a pandemic [2:01:29] as massive emergency funds were going out the door. [2:01:33] He pushed out the Defense Department IG. [2:01:36] And why has Trump gone after [2:01:40] these independent inspectors general? [2:01:42] Simple. [2:01:43] In each case, they were investigating his, [2:01:46] or his administration's, [2:01:48] misconduct and fraud. [2:01:51] Donald Trump's approach to fraud [2:01:54] is to fire the referees [2:01:57] and then say that the game is clean [2:01:58] because no one blows the whistle. [2:02:02] And he hasn't stopped with IGs. [2:02:03] He's repeatedly attacked prosecutors, [2:02:06] law enforcement, [2:02:07] and career public servants who investigated misconduct [2:02:11] that was politically inconvenient for him. [2:02:14] He's turned oversight and fraud prevention [2:02:18] into a Donald Trump loyalty test. [2:02:21] That is not true. [2:02:22] It's not draining the swamp. [2:02:24] So forgive me if I find it difficult [2:02:26] to take seriously lectures about fraud [2:02:30] from people who have cheered [2:02:32] while the most corrupt president in modern history [2:02:35] has dismantled protection after protection against fraud. [2:02:41] You don't get to scream fraud on Tuesday [2:02:44] after you fired the fraud investigators on Monday. [2:02:49] We can protect taxpayers. [2:02:51] We can root out corruption and fraud. [2:02:54] But we can't do it [2:02:54] by turning fraud into a political weapon [2:02:57] and ignoring the record of the person [2:03:00] who did more than anyone to weaken accountability. [2:03:05] Representative Robbins, [2:03:08] in Minnesota, [2:03:09] the governor doesn't have authority [2:03:11] to pardon independently. [2:03:13] There's a board, I think, [2:03:15] and the governor is a member of that board [2:03:17] with the attorney general and some others. [2:03:18] But if that board in Minnesota [2:03:22] were to pardon individuals convicted of fraud, [2:03:27] clearly convicted of fraud, [2:03:28] clearly convicted of fraud, [2:03:29] clearly convicted of fraud, [2:03:29] do you think a pardon like that [2:03:32] would damage your efforts [2:03:34] to root out corruption and fraud in Minnesota? [2:03:37] It would really depend on the specifics [2:03:39] of the facts of the case and the law, [2:03:40] and I'm not going to comment on a hypothetical. [2:03:43] You're not going to say that pardoning fraudsters [2:03:46] would make it harder to prevent fraud in Minnesota? [2:03:48] You're not willing to say that today? [2:03:51] I want to root out fraud and corruption [2:03:53] and make sure people are prosecuted. [2:03:55] You're not willing to say that. [2:03:56] You're comfortable with fraudsters being pardoned. [2:03:58] You don't think it would damage the work? [2:04:00] I want everyone who's committed to the law [2:04:01] who committed a crime to be prosecuted [2:04:03] and held accountable. [2:04:05] And pardoned? [2:04:06] It would depend on the case. [2:04:08] I don't participate in the pardon process in Minnesota, [2:04:11] but every case is very unique [2:04:12] and every governor and attorney general [2:04:15] should look at the specifics. [2:04:16] Okay, Mr. Bellew, can you just talk us through, [2:04:19] I know this has come up already, [2:04:22] the firing of independent inspectors general, [2:04:25] the intimidation of them, [2:04:27] making it harder to do their jobs. [2:04:29] How does that impact fraud prevention [2:04:32] and the prosecution of fraud from the, [2:04:35] the perspective of a former prosecutor? [2:04:37] One of the best investments that the government can make [2:04:40] is in its inspectors general. [2:04:41] Last year, IGs identified an estimated $50 billion [2:04:46] in savings, either through duplicative programs [2:04:49] or for specifically criminal fraud. [2:04:54] The challenge that we have is with, you know, [2:04:56] 19 IGs being fired, that work literally is not happening. [2:05:00] And there's evidence to suggest that at least some of them [2:05:02] have been fired specifically because they were [2:05:05] going after enemies or allies of this administration. [2:05:10] Thank you. [2:05:11] Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent [2:05:12] to enter into the record a CNN article [2:05:15] from February 11th, 2025, USAID IG fired day after report [2:05:19] critical of impacts of Trump administration's- [2:05:22] Without objection to order, [2:05:23] Chair now recognizes Mr. Burchett from Tennessee. [2:05:27] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [2:05:28] I think that it needs to be said [2:05:29] that Governor Walz needs to step down. [2:05:32] Him saying he will stay on to investigate is like, oh, [2:05:35] Jay Simpson saying he will investigate the murder [2:05:38] of his ex-wife. [2:05:39] Just doesn't work out. [2:05:41] I have a question to the representatives, [2:05:43] and thank y'all for being here. [2:05:44] It's a tough gig. [2:05:45] I did that for many years. [2:05:47] Do you think that the Walz administration [2:05:49] suppressed fraud and abuse in social service programs [2:05:52] because they're afraid of exposing Somali residents? [2:05:55] Just go down the line here. [2:05:56] Yes, ma'am. [2:05:57] So not only do we think that's what happened, Mr. Burchett, [2:06:01] but it is also what a Somali-American investigator, [2:06:06] who's associated with the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension said. [2:06:09] He said in an article, [2:06:10] fraudsters also have sought to exploit [2:06:13] the burgeoning political power of the Somali community [2:06:16] and the feckless fear that establishment politicians [2:06:18] and state agencies show when confronted [2:06:21] with charges of racism and Islamophobia. [2:06:23] This is from a Somali federal prosecutor or investigator. [2:06:29] Sir? [2:06:29] Indeed, it's not just a theory. [2:06:31] We have the record of the recording of Keith Ellison [2:06:34] meeting with defendants and defeating [2:06:36] in a case where it was very explicit [2:06:38] that the motivation for keeping scrutiny off them [2:06:41] was based on perceived racism. [2:06:43] Ma'am? [2:06:44] From the mouth of a whistleblower. [2:06:46] You appear to be hold... [2:06:47] So this is what a whistleblower was told. [2:06:49] You appear to be holding back these contracts [2:06:51] because they are going to a diverse community. [2:06:53] It's not a good look. [2:06:56] Okay. [2:06:56] Do you think Somalians tied to these crimes [2:07:01] should be deported, ma'am? [2:07:04] If they're not here legally, yes. [2:07:06] If they are citizens, [2:07:08] they should go through the criminal justice process. [2:07:10] And then there might be other categories, [2:07:13] but I would have to better understand. [2:07:17] I agree. [2:07:17] So some of these... [2:07:19] I mean, some of these folks are born here [2:07:21] and then they're naturalized, [2:07:22] so they would have the constitutional protection there. [2:07:26] So, yes, ma'am. [2:07:27] Sir? [2:07:30] If there is any legal pathway to do so, absolutely. [2:07:33] Ma'am? [2:07:35] So you've got quite a big bucket of people, right? [2:07:37] You've got people that were born here. [2:07:39] That's a different situation. [2:07:40] You have people that were naturalized. [2:07:42] Right. And then those are here. [2:07:43] They're not here illegally. [2:07:44] So you have to treat each one completely separately [2:07:47] with different paths. [2:07:49] Ma'am, who is helping these folks navigate [2:07:51] this complex grant application process? [2:07:56] It seems to me that it's orchestrated. [2:07:57] They've got... [2:07:58] They surely have got a go-to. [2:07:59] We've always found that out in my dealings [2:08:02] with state government. [2:08:03] There was always somebody in there, a gatekeeper. [2:08:07] Yes, and my colleague, Representative Hudson, [2:08:09] could speak to it. [2:08:09] There is a sort of a cottage industry [2:08:12] of Somali consultants who help this. [2:08:14] I bet there is. [2:08:15] Yes, sir. [2:08:16] Yeah, as I stated in my opening statement, [2:08:18] I've personally talked to two gentlemen [2:08:21] who have worked as consultants for multiple entities [2:08:23] receiving government benefits. [2:08:25] And they don't believe they're doing anything wrong. [2:08:27] And by the letter of the law, they might be legally acting, [2:08:31] but they have created an industry out of benefits [2:08:34] that were intended to lift people up, [2:08:36] not become a business. [2:08:39] You want to add to that, ma'am? [2:08:42] So that is something that we have heard repeatedly [2:08:44] from whistleblowers and others, that there is... [2:08:48] Yes, I would call it a cottage industry of people [2:08:50] that when you land on our soil, that they are going to teach you [2:08:53] all the different ways to sign up [2:08:55] for multiple social service programs. [2:08:58] And there's also that. [2:08:59] So they sign up for the max amount, [2:09:01] which is probably why there's a report that just came out [2:09:04] on December 13th of last year that says that 81% of Somalis [2:09:12] were receiving some sort of welfare in Minnesota. [2:09:18] If you don't know the answer to this, just tell me. [2:09:19] Do you have any knowledge? [2:09:20] Or have you heard any talk that Somalis are directing [2:09:24] any of these funds to American U.S. tax dollars [2:09:27] to al-Shabaab terrorist organization? [2:09:31] There have been past criminal convictions in this. [2:09:34] And currently, we believe it's mostly happening indirectly [2:09:38] as they send money to Somalia that al-Shabaab takes a cut. [2:09:43] I'll agree with that. [2:09:43] We're good with that. [2:09:44] Do you think the design of the social service programs [2:09:47] incentivizes fraud and abuse? [2:09:50] Absolutely. [2:09:50] There's no doubt about it. [2:09:52] When you are willing to hand [2:09:53] over a sack of money to somebody on the assumption [2:09:56] that they're going to provide a benevolent service [2:09:58] and then you never check to see if they actually did, [2:10:01] obviously you're going to invite fraud, waste, and abuse. [2:10:03] Ma'am? [2:10:05] Yeah, absolutely. [2:10:05] We just stood up a new program that we'll probably talk about [2:10:08] in a little bit, which is the Paid Family Leave program. [2:10:10] It was literally designed by Democrats [2:10:12] to have waste, fraud, and abuse on a grand scale. [2:10:16] Okay. I'm going to be out of time. [2:10:17] Mr. Chairman, thank you. [2:10:18] But I think America, we're sick of the hearings. [2:10:21] We're sick of all this. [2:10:23] We need... [2:10:24] We need justice. [2:10:25] We need convictions. [2:10:27] But these folks are guilty, and that needs to happen. [2:10:29] America is sick of this, and it needs to happen. [2:10:32] Thank you all so much, and thank you for your bravery. [2:10:35] Very well said. [2:10:36] Chair recognizes Mr. Subramanian. [2:10:40] Thank you, Mr. Chair. [2:10:41] I'm so glad that committee Republicans finally want to talk [2:10:44] about fraud and corruption and misuse of federal funds. [2:10:48] This majority, though, has conveniently avoided this topic, [2:10:51] but let's talk about the fraud in this administration. [2:10:54] And let's start with President Trump [2:10:56] accepting a $400 million plane as a gift from Qatar, [2:11:00] which the President announced he would transfer afterwards [2:11:02] to his presidential library, basically to himself. [2:11:05] And then the President announced a trillion-dollar economic [2:11:07] agreement with Qatar and a security guarantee for them [2:11:10] as well, an unprecedented one. [2:11:12] Next, Trump has also accepted hundreds of millions of dollars [2:11:16] in undisclosed amounts for his ballroom project, [2:11:18] including from companies who had civil [2:11:20] and potentially criminal charges that were then dropped [2:11:23] against them by this administration. [2:11:25] And it's not just President Trump. [2:11:26] Mr. Chairman. [2:11:26] Thank you, Mr. President. [2:11:27] Thank you, Mr. President. [2:11:28] Thank you, Mr. President. [2:11:29] President Trump, Secretary Kristi Noem has paid more [2:11:30] than $200 million in DHS ad contracts last fall [2:11:32] and bypassed the normal competitive bidding process [2:11:35] to award some of the funds to a firm with deep ties to herself. [2:11:40] And then Secretary Noem also spent $170 million [2:11:43] of taxpayer dollars on new jets, [2:11:45] including one for her own private travel. [2:11:47] Family members of the President have entered into $2 billion [2:11:50] in business deals with the UAE government [2:11:53] and their government officials, while the U.S., conveniently, [2:11:56] then signed a major CHIPS agreement with the UAE. [2:11:59] And then after his election, President Trump put $4 billion [2:12:02] in shares of his media company in a trust to be run by his son. [2:12:06] And then President Trump maintained ownership [2:12:08] of his business empire while letting his family run the day [2:12:10] to day. [2:12:11] And then in September, Forbes estimated [2:12:13] that President Trump's meme coin tokens were worth $709 million [2:12:18] and his World Liberty financial tokens were worth more [2:12:20] than $338 million. [2:12:22] But we don't know exactly how that happened. [2:12:25] Then President Trump also said that the U.S. government is [2:12:26] going to have to stop the enforcement of foreign bribery [2:12:29] and fraud so that we could have American companies commit fraud [2:12:32] abroad as well and not get prosecuted. [2:12:34] President Trump also has made hundreds of visits [2:12:37] to his own properties using taxpayer dollars, [2:12:39] a lot of golfing included, and used his presidency [2:12:42] for personal profit to those properties. [2:12:44] In 2019, the GAO reported a trip to Mar-a-Lago cost [2:12:47] over $3 million. [2:12:49] And so if you add that up, that's a lot [2:12:51] of taxpayer money being misused and a lot of fraud. [2:12:53] The interim U.S. attorney [2:12:55] for D.C. ended prosecution of a January 6th defendant [2:12:59] after he represented that defendant in private practice. [2:13:01] President Trump pardoned fraudster Trevor Milton, [2:13:04] a former CEO convicted of fraud in 2022, who, with the stroke [2:13:08] of Trump's pen, escaped paying the $600 million in restitution [2:13:12] that prosecutors argued he should pay to people [2:13:15] who've invested in his company. [2:13:17] According to the Washington Post, at least 20 people [2:13:19] who have received clemency from Trump were given forgiveness [2:13:22] for financial penalties totaling tens of millions of dollars. [2:13:25] And then President Trump pardoned Binance founder Chengpeng Zhao, [2:13:28] a money launderer, after getting support [2:13:30] for a family crypto venture. [2:13:32] And then President Trump also pardoned CEO Andrew Weidenhorn [2:13:35] for stealing $47 million of his own money from his own company, [2:13:40] but had his case dropped after he donated to the president. [2:13:43] And then President Trump also pardoned the founder [2:13:45] of the electric vehicle company, Nikola, who was convicted [2:13:48] of fraud and donated $1.8 million [2:13:51] to a political committee supporting President Trump. [2:13:53] And then prior to his, [2:13:55] the confirmation Secretary Hegseth's wife owned thousands [2:13:57] of dollars in defense stocks, including companies [2:14:00] that contract with the DoD. [2:14:02] And DoD Secretary Hegseth brought his wife, [2:14:05] who has defense company investments, to meetings [2:14:07] with foreign defense officials at a NATO gathering [2:14:10] where Ukraine policy was discussed. [2:14:12] And from recently passed funding legislation, [2:14:14] U.S. senators can claim over $500,000 in taxpayer dollars [2:14:19] over phone record collections during the January 6th [2:14:21] investigation. [2:14:22] We just commemorated the fifth anniversary of January 6th. [2:14:25] And then border czar Tom Homan dodged FBI background checks [2:14:28] and accepted $50,000 from undercover agents acting [2:14:32] as business people in exchange for government contracts. [2:14:34] The DOJ investigation of that was shut down [2:14:37] by this administration. [2:14:38] President Trump wrote on his social media platform, [2:14:41] Truth Social, this is a great time to buy, [2:14:43] DJT, less than four hours before lifting the tariffs he imposed [2:14:47] days earlier, raising accusations of improprieties. [2:14:50] I'd say the accusations are probably well-founded. [2:14:53] President Trump's FBI director has [2:14:55] reportedly used taxpayer dollars [2:14:56] to escort his girlfriend's friend home [2:14:58] from partying in Nashville. [2:15:00] RFK Jr., the secretary, refused to fully cut ties [2:15:03] to a vaccine lawsuit against a pharmaceutical company [2:15:06] while serving as secretary, arrangement that profits [2:15:10] from the suit would go to his son. [2:15:13] Saudi-funded golf tournaments moved events [2:15:15] to Trump golf courses, providing a financial windfall [2:15:18] for President Trump and his family, [2:15:19] as his administration sets Middle East policy. [2:15:22] FBI Director Kash Patel refused to have [2:15:25] a [2:15:52] And I could keep going. [2:15:53] Tom Krause, the CEO of Cloud Software, [2:15:54] was hired to work on a payment system [2:15:55] at the Treasury Department, raising questions [2:15:57] about competitive advantages for future contracts. [2:15:59] A Cloud Software subsidiary previously [2:16:01] donated $1 million to Trump's inaugural fund. [2:16:04] And the first directive issued by the US Department of Energy's [2:16:07] secretary, Chris Wright, focused on advancing geothermal energy, [2:16:11] which benefits Fervo, in which his former company, Liberty [2:16:13] Energy, had invested $10 million in. [2:16:16] Commerce Secretary Lutnick. [2:16:18] Jim, it's time's expired. [2:16:19] 40 seconds over, and I've been cutting members off. [2:16:21] I have more. [2:16:23] You have what? [2:16:24] I have more, but I'll yield back. [2:16:25] OK. [2:16:26] Chair recognizes, and you can submit anything [2:16:29] you want to the record. [2:16:30] We'll put it in there. [2:16:31] Chair recognizes Ms. Boebert from Colorado. [2:16:34] Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to the witnesses [2:16:36] for being here today. [2:16:38] Representative Robbins, did your Fraud Prevention Committee [2:16:42] raise formal concerns about suspected child care fraud [2:16:46] to DHS or state leadership before federal indictments [2:16:51] were issued? [2:16:53] So the original federal indictments [2:16:56] came before I was elected. [2:16:57] Back in 2015 or so. [2:17:00] And then we thought DHS had cleaned it up, and they did not. [2:17:04] So we did a hearing last February of 2025, [2:17:08] and we provided them a list of child care facilities [2:17:11] we thought they should check out. [2:17:12] My understanding is they have not. [2:17:14] And so we're hoping that they will take this seriously [2:17:19] and go investigate with on-site visits what's [2:17:22] going on in these child care facilities. [2:17:24] And when you raised awareness, were the governor, Governor, [2:17:26] Governor Tim Walz, and the attorney general [2:17:29] made aware of these warnings? [2:17:33] Oh, I'm sure. [2:17:35] Did the state leadership fail to act promptly? [2:17:38] I mean, it kind of sounds like they did if you still haven't [2:17:41] received any information regarding these warnings. [2:17:45] Yes, we don't know that they took any action [2:17:47] with the list we gave them. [2:17:49] And Representative Robbins, what recommendations [2:17:52] from your committee were given and ignored? [2:17:56] So in general, we've had an increase in cases, which is why we had an increase in cases. [2:17:56] We've had an increase in cases, which is why we had an increase in cases. [2:17:56] We've had an increase in cases. [2:17:57] we always try to look at internal controls and we've asked I mean it's not [2:18:02] complicated we want them to go make sure recipients are eligible that providers [2:18:07] are eligible that services are actually being provided our staff has gone to [2:18:12] many of these places and so it's not just the next Shirley video our staff [2:18:16] has gone and looked at this and there are literally no one there during [2:18:20] business hours some of the offices where we have the address are empty like [2:18:25] there's no furniture so so they are not doing their job thank you mr. mr. Ballou [2:18:32] does the Department of Justice have more resources to uncover fraud than a [2:18:37] twenty-year-old youtuber yes both those resources are declining are they still [2:18:44] more than a twenty-year-old youtuber with the with a cell phone camera yeah [2:18:49] as I mentioned earlier the primary office that would be responsible for [2:18:52] prosecuting public corruption which is what it's being alleged today has [2:18:56] essentially been decimated [2:18:57] most was it decimated when you were there was was their funding there then [2:19:02] yeah so I was there then so why did the Department of Justice under the Biden [2:19:07] administration ignore repeated attempts to uncover this massive fraudulent [2:19:12] misuse of taxpayer dollars as you may recall the indictment actually happened [2:19:17] during the Biden administration and and what action has been taken in the state [2:19:21] to ensure that this isn't happening because we just saw dozens and dozens of [2:19:25] centers that are receiving [2:19:27] hundreds of millions of dollars collectively that are not functionally [2:19:33] operational yeah well in 2022 under the Biden administration over 70 people were [2:19:38] indicted for exactly the scheme so mr. Ballou yes or no a Medicaid program with [2:19:45] low barriers to entry and minimal reimbursement requirements it that's [2:19:51] something that would be highly vulnerable to fraud if oversight is [2:19:55] weak correct exactly and the challenges that that [2:19:59] Thank you. Yes or no. Thank you for your answer. Mr. Blue. Yes or no. When a program projected at two point six million dollars explodes to over one hundred million dollars annually. That's a glaring red flag. The problem that we have is that all the oversight at the federal level. Yes or no. Is that a red flag when when a two point six million dollar program. The challenge that we have over one hundred million dollars. Yes or no. Offices that are responsible for identifying those red flags are being [2:20:30] defunded. Mr. Blue. Yes or no. When the same individuals or networks bill multiple Medicaid programs that indicates organized fraud. And the challenge that we have. Yes or no. Does that indicate fraud when when you're getting the same individuals and networks that are billing multiple Medicaid programs. Precisely the offices that would identify that are being defunded as they should be. Mr. Blue. Yes or no. Did the Biden administration [2:21:02] cover this up for political reasons because uncovering fraud. On this massive scale would have hurt the 2024 Democrat vice presidential candidate. Just what I understand. Are you saying that the offices that uncover fraud should be defunded. I'm I'm saying that these programs and the fraud that is taking place should be defunded. My understanding is what you were just saying is that the fraud programs. So no we we need to uncover these. But uh the [2:21:32] And the challenge that we have. These actual programs that are ballooning to one hundred million dollars. And if you could get back to the question I just asked was this covered up because you thought it would hurt the 2024 Democrat presidential vice presidential candidate. The office that would investigate that kind of alleged public integrity fraud has been defunded. In 2024 it was not defunded. And was this covered up to protect a vice presidential candidate. Yes or no. Mr. Blue. Prior to 2024 over [2:22:03] 70 indictments were brought under the Mr. Blue was this covered up to protect a political candidate. Once again that office has been defunded and they're right. Thank you. Thank you Mr. Blue. I'm sorry that you're not answering questions before this committee correctly. Thank you. Oh okay. Thank you. Uh chair now recognizes Miss Tlaib from Michigan. Thank you so much Mr. Chairman. Thank you all so much for being here. I think someone has served in the state house. I know how important it is no matter if there's a D or R next to [2:22:35] me. Yes or no. No. Excility is my [2:22:39] choice. It is a choice that I [2:22:43] would use any name of or anyone in charge to make sure we root out any sort of fraud and scams because we know it hurts everyone. But as a Muslim American I've got to ask you all as a public servant. [2:22:50] Because you know Representative Robbins, Hudson, Roehrig like do you believe that every Somali in Minnesota is engaged in fraud right now? Yes or no you start. [2:23:02] No. No. Absolutely not. [2:23:04] Do you believe that Muslims are demons? [2:23:06] No. No. Absolutely not. That's a ridiculous answer. [2:23:07] thing to even say I hope nobody says that yeah well I just think it's really [2:23:11] important as you all do the job that you need to do to also root out hate and [2:23:16] divisive language that put you know you can't imagine a child listening to that [2:23:21] you know what I mean and they're seeing that and I'm telling you as somebody [2:23:23] that grew up Muslim in America sometimes I you're just listening that and you [2:23:27] feel othered you feel like you're less than that maybe this thing the things [2:23:31] that are being said are true and so you know mr. chair I have to submit for the [2:23:35] record this is I know this is not your only source I heard you but you know [2:23:40] unnamed source in a viral Minnesota Somali fraud video is a right-wing [2:23:43] lobbyist who called Muslim demons but why this is more disturbing and I don't [2:23:49] know if any of you shared it but I want you to know that who shared it despite [2:23:52] this and all the falsehoods that my colleagues have already highlighted in a [2:23:57] very very shameful way that this video has been shared widely and proudly by [2:24:02] Attorney General Pam Bondi by FBI Director [2:24:05] Keir Starmer [2:24:05] Kash Patel by Vice President JD Vance who actually called the video quote far [2:24:11] more useful journalism than any of our winners of the 2024 Pulitzer Prizes the [2:24:17] videos create the video creators Nick Shirley has been built this career right [2:24:21] but on a lot of Islamophobia and dehumanization that I just feel as [2:24:25] public servants as you root out fraud and you have to that you don't make it [2:24:30] out that it's about the Somali community it's about maybe not having the checks [2:24:35] and balances and maybe again [2:24:36] you want something that's the same but I understand you have these issues and [2:24:42] you're ok I understand it desire cats her character you're not happy seeing [2:24:46] that it's not part of my relationship and҉antes and wanting to do that but I [2:24:50] I urge you all because this is the same person [2:24:52] that also talked about a community I represent in the City of Dearborn [2:24:56] and again there are children watching and I say this that racist rhetoric no [2:25:02] matter faith or ethnicity against any of our neighbors is not going to prevent [2:25:06] fraud doing this will not prevent fraud we already saw like Trump administration using this story to pretext of sending two thousand federal agents to [2:25:06] that sending troops in i don't think ice agents are troops and ice agents should be able to do [2:25:14] their job anywhere in america federal agents you're right i met federal agents ma'am do you [2:25:19] believe federal agents should come in and two thousand federal agents should come into your [2:25:24] state i think ice agents should be doing their job anywhere in america it's their jurisdiction [2:25:29] and if there are criminal response of the president so if you if there are criminals [2:25:33] who need to be deported they should be deported but that's not what's going to happen represent [2:25:38] hudson i absolutely welcome immigration enforcement in the state yeah but do you think [2:25:42] it's really immigration enforcement because they're racially profiled they're going to just [2:25:45] stop people that look somali or look muslim or ethnic and just harass them and i'm telling you [2:25:50] as somebody that for the first time ever my mother in 50 years being here and the sweetest woman she'd [2:25:55] feed anybody she doesn't care if you're a republican democrat she would make sure you're [2:25:59] not hungry and fed and she's carrying a passport for the first time in her life here because she [2:26:07] knows because she wears a hijab [2:26:08] she might be stopped by ice agent is that the kind of militarization i know you won't get stopped [2:26:14] but somebody like my mother and somebody like your somali american neighbors in minnesota will be [2:26:18] stopped in a way that is dehumanizing they do it in front of kids they don't care and i'm saying [2:26:25] this to you and asking all of you do your job but don't allow your job and what you're doing to be [2:26:31] utilized as a racist trope that all somali americans are criminals that they're that [2:26:36] muslims are demons it's incredibly dangerous [2:26:40] and so you know you know represent robin's hudson arc you know one of the things that [2:26:44] the collective punishment right i mean the fact that now i'm seeing the trump administration say [2:26:49] okay we're going to cut child care and social services to california illinois new york minnesota [2:26:54] colorado like is that really the answer is that going to prevent fraud do you believe cutting [2:27:00] 23 000 kids from child care do you think that's going to prevent fraud so my understanding it's [2:27:04] not being cut if they can document that the actual children are there and that they have attendance [2:27:10] they will get the funding so this is a misnomer saying it's all going to be cut it's not true [2:27:15] we'll see represent hudson i tend not to blame firemen for water damage when they put out a fire [2:27:20] okay and that's what's going on so you're good with them cut okay how about you i believe in the [2:27:25] due process of law and so back to your comment about your dear mother because she wears a hajib [2:27:31] and she has to carry her passport so i think that every person has value everyone is a child of god [2:27:39] right and we may have a different way of thinking about it but i think it's important for all of us to [2:27:41] have a different way of thinking about it but i think it's important for all of us to have a different [2:27:41] name but here's the thing is that they all deserve respect absolutely they all deserve kindness [2:27:47] they all deserve the process of law and and due process and i'll tell you that is what we believe [2:27:53] in and i see it among my community it's a very diverse community we're calling people on other [2:27:57] you know folks that are no matter what their background is because we don't want any criminal [2:28:01] activity or fraud because we know it hurts everybody but i'm asking all of you as you [2:28:05] do this your job call out against the racist comments protect everyone [2:28:11] in minnesota no matter their faith or ethnicity so be careful in sharing these i'm sorry chairman [2:28:16] this is important be careful as you do your job not to allow people that you all are trying to [2:28:22] root out fraud to be used as a ploy to go after muslims times expired thank you chair before i [2:28:29] recognize mr cloud uh mr gill has a unanimous consent request sure yep this from the minnesota [2:28:34] reformer uh somali american former investigator why you're hearing about fraud in my community [2:28:40] without objection to order chair [2:28:41] now do you have another one okay chair recognizes mr cloud from texas for five minutes thank you [2:28:49] chairman and i appreciate you holding this hearing uh it's important as you have mentioned at the [2:28:53] outset that we continue our work to uncover waste fraud and abuse and especially in holding this [2:28:58] hearing uh kind of brings some light to this issue that the media really they were scooped [2:29:05] and so in a sense that they're having to uh cover this issue when really they should have been [2:29:09] the ones to uh investigate and reveal this is telling [2:29:15] no doubt there's fraud everywhere when you're spending trillions of dollars there's going to [2:29:19] be pockets of fraud but one of the things that's been revealing this year as we've worked through [2:29:24] the doge process is uncovering the extent of the fraud how it's been systemized weaponized and how [2:29:31] it's we've really unveiled that it's the world's history's largest money laundering scheme uh and [2:29:38] much of this should be a bipartisan issue to go after the waste fraud and abuse but what we found [2:29:42] out is much of the taxpayer funding is going to go after the waste fraud and abuse but what we found out is much of the taxpayer funding is going [2:29:45] to up in uphold leftist organizations and and their campaign practices and the like [2:29:51] what's particularly telling about this issue in minnesota isn't the fact that there's waste [2:29:56] fraud abuse no doubt that's happening in a number of states and we need to continue the work to [2:30:01] clean it up but the way that this has been systemized institutionalized and the corrupt [2:30:07] and corrosive nature and even criminal uh coercion that went on from the governor's office and his [2:30:15] administration uh is particularly troubling uh i think it's notable that the biden administration [2:30:21] was aware of this even as they tried to sell the uh the harris waltz administration on the on [2:30:28] on the american people uh and and perhaps that's you know why we didn't see this come to light [2:30:34] as we should but uh representative hudson i i was uh i appreciated something you said in your [2:30:41] testimony in the sense that uh these you said how the structure of these programs creates a [2:30:46] incentives that reliably produce the waste, fraud, and abuse across multiple service areas [2:30:50] regardless of the program or intent. [2:30:53] This is what we see oftentimes, that for good intentions maybe, Congress upstands these [2:30:58] programs. [2:30:59] Over the decades, what we've seen is they've expanded to where many of them almost end [2:31:03] up being a system of waste, fraud, and abuse with a veneer of care and concern for people. [2:31:12] Our job in Congress is to help bring the tools to make sure that that doesn't happen. [2:31:18] The ranking member said, where fraud exists, we should look into it. [2:31:22] We should hold people accountable. [2:31:24] What we see coming from the left a lot of times is they're fine with the reactionary. [2:31:27] We're fine in bringing prosecutions after the fact because the money's already gone [2:31:32] out. [2:31:33] We're fine with prosecuting people who do ballot harvesting once the ballots are in [2:31:37] the pot and we can't separate them. [2:31:39] But it's far better for us to prevent it. [2:31:41] I'd like to see that. [2:31:42] I'd like to talk to, I'll start with you, Mr. Hudson, but if you all want to jump in, [2:31:48] what controls states should be putting in, but really it comes down to us in saying whatever [2:31:53] federal dollars you are receiving, you should be getting these controls in place. [2:31:59] Could you speak to the institutionalization of this fraud and the schemes that are in [2:32:04] place? [2:32:05] Maybe list some examples and then speak to some of the controls that you would recommend [2:32:08] that we take on legislatively to make sure states are doing their job. [2:32:12] It's a very big question and I'll try to be concise. [2:32:15] So I haven't put a whole lot of thought into what Congress should do given my state [2:32:18] legislative role, but I can tell you that states are primarily responsible for the administration [2:32:23] of these programs, for setting up rules, for engaging in verification and compliance. [2:32:29] And so what I imagine Congress can do is provide either incentive or some form of, for lack [2:32:37] of a better term, punishment to states who fail to do that. [2:32:40] Currently states are actually incentivized in a sense. [2:32:42] They're incentivized to do things like force us to go back in the law and say, well, we [2:32:48] should have done this, and they should go back in the law on the right, and they should [2:32:53] go back in the law on the wrong. [2:32:57] And I think that that's been the thing I've come to think about for a while now, is that [2:33:03] we can also strongly advocate this thing that the state, the state fantasizes that we should [2:33:05] do this, and no, we shouldn't do it. [2:33:06] It's not fair. [2:33:07] It's not fair. [2:33:08] And I think that's the key element to the education system. [2:33:09] The first thing, I don't think I'm going to talk about right now, but I'm going to [2:33:10] talk about the federal welfare and inclusion thing because I think that's the key. [2:33:11] or an incentive to make your life better it is set up to create a perpetual industry out of taking [2:33:19] money from taxpayers yeah that's that's troubling uh would you like to be that yes i think one of [2:33:26] the most practical things you can do is to require documentation from the recipient and from the [2:33:32] provider in minnesota most of these providers are set up and and the recipients based on attestation [2:33:38] and nobody then goes and checks are they really eligible are the services actually being provided [2:33:44] we had the housing stabilization program they estimate 90 percent of it was fraud nobody checked [2:33:51] if services were actually being provided and i think you could also require repayment to the feds [2:33:57] if there's fraud and that would make states pay attention to administration if they had to repay [2:34:02] the money if it was not spent on the proper services thank you those are a few good tips we'll [2:34:08] hopefully stay [2:34:08] content uh communication my time's up sure i know we opened up a can of worms there that could take [2:34:13] another hour or two but thank you chairman i yield back thank you chair recognize mr minn uh thank [2:34:18] you mr chair appreciate uh today's hearing and i am deeply concerned about the allegations of fraud [2:34:24] that we are learning about um around the disbursement of social services funding in [2:34:28] minnesota this is fraud of the worst kind it's literally taking food out of the mouths of hungry [2:34:34] kids so that people can enrich themselves [2:34:37] uh and just for your clarification i've spent actually spent my career fighting fraud my first [2:34:43] job out of law school was at the sec uh this was in the aftermath of another major set of frauds [2:34:48] the enron and worldcom accounting scandals uh which of course from the private sector not the [2:34:52] public sector uh in congress this has been my um i just over a year at this point but i was [2:34:58] happy to sponsor hr 1156 a republican-led bill that came before this committee last year [2:35:04] and i think that we need aggressive enforcement and accountability when it comes [2:35:07] to taxpayer dollars and their disbursement uh that being said uh i i have concerns about this [2:35:13] hearing as well as recent actions taken by the trump administration and it's hard for me not to [2:35:20] look at this hearing and the context in which is taking place and not see this as a partisan [2:35:26] and racist hearing uh and for the reasons mentioned by my colleague but we have not had other hearings [2:35:32] uh when it comes to fraud and that takes place in republican-led states we've not had hearings [2:35:37] in this committee as far as i'm aware or any other committee this year as long as i've been in [2:35:42] congress uh that go after those who are not somali american and so i hope you all can appreciate that [2:35:47] by holding this hearing uh in isolation of any other hearings around oversight or fraud that it [2:35:53] looks like we're going after one community in one state uh when we know it's rampant so i guess my [2:35:57] first question to you all and you all can raise your hand or if you don't want to raise your hand [2:36:00] uh feel free to not raise your hand but uh do you believe that fraud only takes place in democratic [2:36:09] no and do you believe that fraud only takes place in the somali communities no absolutely not no [2:36:15] would it surprise you to know that that the congress has not done hearings uh on on either [2:36:21] frauds that have taken place in republican-led states or on uh frauds that have taken place [2:36:27] uh in in non-somalian communities so this year since i've taken congress or that this this [2:36:32] oversight committee in particular in the last in this session the minnesota legislature are [2:36:37] we are literally drowning in fraud and those are yes no questions [2:36:40] i'm going to reclaim my time so thank you very much and so i would just say that if if this was [2:36:44] a serious hearing if this was a more serious attempt at oversight we'd be looking across the [2:36:49] board uh and uh this is also hard to not take in the context of president trump's announcement i [2:36:55] think just yesterday that he would be illegally i would add withholding funds uh for child care [2:37:01] and other purposes from states led by democratic governors including not only minnesota but my [2:37:06] home state of california as well as several others kids are going to go hungry in my [2:37:10] district uh when we have not seen evidence of any type of fraud on the scale we're talking about [2:37:15] in california in colorado in illinois and yet donald trump is withholding funds from those [2:37:21] states and so it looks like a very partisan effort here to go after blue states uh 10 billion dollars [2:37:28] is being withheld 10 billion dollars and we already have struggling people right now trying [2:37:33] to pay the bills because the rising health care costs inflation etc it's cruel and vindictive it [2:37:40] absolutely feels like that that's it's a good example of the ways in which president trump and [2:37:45] this committee and this republican-led congress look increasingly like they're weaponizing the [2:37:50] government to go after democrats and people they perceive as their political critics rather than [2:37:55] going out and and trying to address fraud in all ways shapes and forms we know for example that [2:38:00] there have been massive frauds that have been uncovered in places like florida texas louisiana [2:38:05] and mississippi and i want to highlight mississippi because mississippi has made a lot of [2:38:09] news recently because they've had the [2:38:10] their history. And yet this committee has not addressed that once. We have not done a hearing [2:38:15] on it. There's been no letters or inquiries, as far as I understand, this year of my time in [2:38:20] Congress. So this is quite problematic. It includes celebrities like Brett Favre, we all know about. [2:38:26] And so it's very problematic to me that we are not actually doing this. Now, Mr. Ballou, [2:38:31] you mentioned earlier that it's hard to uncover fraud or know about fraud or know the motivations [2:38:37] when we are getting rid of Inspector General. I think that was your implication. And I just want [2:38:42] to lean into that just a little bit, because I think what the Republicans have done in your state [2:38:46] actually makes a lot of sense to me. Receiving tips from the public, investigating those tips, [2:38:52] and then trying to provide transparency around your findings. And yet that is, Mr. Ballou, [2:38:57] that is what Inspectors General do, right? That's precisely their job. [2:39:00] And would it surprise you to know that this committee, which is tasked with overseeing [2:39:04] the federal government, has done zero hearings since Donald Trump? [2:39:07] Donald Trump fired all the Inspector Generals at the beginning of his term? [2:39:10] That's unfortunate. [2:39:11] We really can't have a discussion around fraud, misuse of taxpayer dollars, or waste [2:39:16] if we aren't talking about the fact that we just got rid of all the people that are supposed [2:39:20] to oversee that. So I have one last question here and this— [2:39:23] Your time's expired. You've gone over a minute. But you— [2:39:26] I did go over a minute. [2:39:27] You criticized firing the Inspector General when you admit there's massive fraud in Republican [2:39:33] states too. The IGs have failed. [2:39:36] Can I ask you— [2:39:37] Why should we keep funding these agencies when we—there's evidence that the money [2:39:42] has been defrauded? [2:39:43] I have a parliamentary inquiry for you, sir. [2:39:45] Well, go ahead. [2:39:46] Is—are we allowed to use this committee's resources to only go after fraud or states [2:39:52] of one party? [2:39:53] No, we can go after fraud in any party. [2:39:55] So are we going to go after—are we going to look into Mississippi the way that we're [2:39:57] looking into Minnesota? [2:39:58] If you bring stuff forward, you have whistleblowers come forward, we will look after it in any [2:40:02] state. [2:40:03] You will hold a hearing. Do I have your— [2:40:04] Well, it depends on the evidence. [2:40:07] There's plenty of evidence out there. [2:40:08] All right. [2:40:09] Chair now recognizes Mr. Burleson from Missouri. [2:40:10] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [2:40:11] I've already recognized Mr. Burleson. [2:40:12] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate it. [2:40:13] And actually, I'd like to remind the committee that this—this party, this side of the aisle [2:40:19] has dedicated tremendous resources to rooting out waste, fraud, and abuse. [2:40:24] In fact, the Chairman set up a committee called DOGE that the other side of the aisle, you [2:40:31] know, demonized and criticized in our efforts in which we had multiple hearings to identify, [2:40:36] to identify waste, fraud, and abuse throughout all of the government agencies. [2:40:41] And so I applaud the Chairman and—and this side for—for the work that we've been doing. [2:40:46] But, you know, sadly, Minnesota has become an example because of the extent of the waste [2:40:53] and the fraud. [2:40:54] It—it—I have to ask, it—it must be embarrassing for the citizens of Minnesota. [2:41:01] Chairman Rob—or Chairwoman Robbins. [2:41:03] So I'm not embarrassed to be from Minnesota. [2:41:05] But I am frustrated and angry about the theft of taxpayer money. [2:41:11] My—I have in—I have a family that live in—in Minnesota. [2:41:15] It is a—it's a wonderful state. [2:41:17] And I—and I know that they are angry, that they're very frustrated. [2:41:20] So I think that we talk about the amount of money that's being wasted, $9 billion. [2:41:25] That seems like an abstract amount. [2:41:27] But let's break that down. [2:41:29] $9 billion stolen from less than $6 million. [2:41:35] That's a lot of money stolen from citizens of Minnesota, correct? [2:41:39] That's per individual. [2:41:41] Imagine, right, you know, every citizen of Minnesota, your bank account, suddenly someone [2:41:46] took $1,500 out of your bank account. [2:41:49] Every taxpayer—there's around 3 million citizens—or taxpayers in Minnesota. [2:41:54] Every taxpayer just had $3,000 stolen from their bank account. [2:41:59] How does that feel to the—to a citizen of Minnesota? [2:42:02] MS. [2:42:03] Well, we had that money stolen from us. [2:42:05] But we had an $18 billion surplus that Tim Walz spent and then raised our taxes $11 billion [2:42:11] and left us with a $6 billion deficit. [2:42:14] So we've had the fiscal mismanagement on top of the fraud. [2:42:17] And Minnesotans are completely fed up. [2:42:19] MR. [2:42:20] You know, in Missouri, there's also an opportunity cost to all that money. [2:42:24] So in Missouri, we just, you know, greenlit a project to add more lanes to I-70, which [2:42:31] runs from one end of the state to the other. [2:42:33] And it was only—it was less than $3 billion. [2:42:36] You could—imagine, people in Minnesota could enjoy adding additional lanes on interstates—on [2:42:44] three of your interstates—I-35, I-94, I-90. [2:42:50] Don't you think the people of Minnesota would love to have wider lane—or more lanes added [2:42:54] to their highway infrastructure? [2:42:56] MS. [2:42:57] They absolutely would. [2:42:58] But even if we stayed in the social service realm, there was $104 million in one year [2:43:02] that was fraudulent in the Housing Stabilization Service. [2:43:06] If we could have taken that $104 million and put it into supportive housing, we would have [2:43:10] done a lot to solve the homelessness problem. [2:43:13] So every time these dollars are fraudulently stolen, it is a huge opportunity cost for [2:43:18] Minnesotans. [2:43:19] MR. [2:43:20] Absolutely. [2:43:21] And you've been sounding the alarm for quite some time. [2:43:23] Why has it taken until 2025 for these to fully come to light? [2:43:28] MS. [2:43:30] The Fraud Prevention and State Oversight Committee was formed in 2025. [2:43:33] We had a tie in the House. [2:43:36] MR. [2:43:37] So when the Republicans took majority, you were able to actually root out the waste [2:43:44] fraud abuse in Minnesota, which is why we now know about it. [2:43:47] MS. [2:43:48] Yes. [2:43:49] We're in a tie technically, but we were able to negotiate this as part of the power-sharing [2:43:53] agreement. [2:43:54] MR. [2:43:55] I seek unanimous consent, Mr. Chairman, to enter into the record an article from [2:44:01] the New York Post. [2:44:02] Former Homeland Security agent claims prosecutors— [2:44:03] MS. [2:44:04] Yes. [2:44:05] MR. [2:44:06] —involved and ignored Minnesota daycare fraud cases. [2:44:07] They just evaporated. [2:44:08] MR. [2:44:09] Without objection to order. [2:44:10] MR. [2:44:11] Thank you. [2:44:12] So there's been—investigation's been going on for some time. [2:44:14] I understand you don't report them or have really kind of bypassed the state agencies. [2:44:20] You report directly to the federal government. [2:44:22] Can you elaborate on why that is? [2:44:24] It's pretty obvious why, but— [2:44:25] MS. [2:44:26] So when my staff—we have a very small staff. [2:44:31] We have one researcher on our committee, and then we as members also do a lot of our own [2:44:34] research. [2:44:35] And when we get an investigation that is credible, we do as much research as we can. [2:44:41] But as I said earlier, we don't have access to bank records, health records, or the state [2:44:44] payment system. [2:44:45] And so based on that, when we get something that's credible, we turn it over to the Office [2:44:49] of Legislative Auditor and to the U.S. Attorney's Office. [2:44:53] I have been accused of hiding whistleblower data from the department, but when the department [2:44:59] comes to hearings, we provide documents every time. [2:45:01] I flagged 72 childcare centers. [2:45:03] We've given them lists of all of the housing—multiple addresses where there's more than five providers, [2:45:11] sometimes up to 22 providers at the same address. [2:45:14] They've done nothing with it. [2:45:15] But what I don't give them is the whistleblower information, because I am protecting our whistleblowers [2:45:19] in Minnesota. [2:45:20] They finally are stepping up, and I have their back. [2:45:22] MR. [2:45:23] Good for you. [2:45:24] And I appreciate you for doing that. [2:45:25] And then finally, with that, I'll end. [2:45:27] I have more articles to submit for the record, Mr. Chairman. [2:45:30] MR. [2:45:33] Do you want to submit them now? [2:45:34] Or are you going to submit them later? [2:45:35] We'll proceed. [2:45:36] MR. [2:45:37] Okay. [2:45:38] One is the—an article produced. [2:45:39] It was about childcare welfare fraud. [2:45:41] MR. [2:45:42] Without objection to order. [2:45:43] MR. [2:45:44] A report produced by the Office of Legislative Auditor of Minnesota Childcare Assistance [2:45:50] Programs Assessment of Fraud Allegations. [2:45:51] MR. [2:45:52] Without objection to order. [2:45:53] MR. [2:45:54] And then from the Minnesota House Research Group, the Childcare Assistance Programs [2:45:58] and the Fraud Within. [2:45:59] MR. [2:46:00] Without objection, so ordered. [2:46:01] MR. [2:46:02] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [2:46:03] MR. [2:46:04] Chair now recognizes Mr. Frost from Florida. [2:46:05] MR. [2:46:05] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [2:46:06] Thank you. [2:46:07] MR. [2:46:08] Thank you. [2:46:09] Mr. Chairman, it's very important that we eliminate fraud in our social programs. [2:46:10] And I'm glad that Governor Walz has taken real concrete steps in Minnesota to combat [2:46:13] fraud, like signing legislation to strengthen states' agency's ability to detect, prevent, [2:46:18] and prosecute fraud, and establishing a statewide inspector general coordinating council and [2:46:23] appointing an independent state auditor to investigate claims. [2:46:26] Mr. Balu, how will these actions help uncover and prevent fraud in the state? [2:46:32] MR. [2:46:33] Well, it's the funding and staffing that's necessary to uncover fraud. [2:46:35] It's not just fraud that's happening at a state level, but that staffing is not being [2:46:38] mirrored at the federal level. [2:46:39] MR. [2:46:40] What do you mean by that? [2:46:41] MR. [2:46:42] Well, bluntly, most of the enforcement mechanisms for going after white-collar [2:46:45] crime are being decimated, especially in the Justice Department, but also the Consumer [2:46:50] Financial Protection Bureau and the Securities and Exchange Commission. [2:46:53] MR. [2:46:54] Of course. [2:46:55] As you pointed out, you know, it's important for governors to play a big role in fighting [2:46:59] fraud in their state. [2:47:00] I want to give you a hypothetical. [2:47:02] MR. [2:47:03] Yeah. [2:47:04] MR. [2:47:05] Let's say that a woman that funnels millions of dollars from the state's money [2:47:08] over to the governor's wife's nonprofit. [2:47:12] Let's say then that nonprofit takes that same money and gives it to political action committees [2:47:16] that help her husband's causes. [2:47:19] Would that be worth investigating? [2:47:20] MR. [2:47:21] Absolutely. [2:47:22] MR. [2:47:23] Well, what say the rest of the witnesses? [2:47:24] In that hypothetical, is that something we should also investigate? [2:47:25] MS. [2:47:28] So I don't think we're in a place to talk about hypotheticals, but thank you [2:47:31] for the question. [2:47:32] MR. [2:47:33] The rest of the witnesses, you don't think we should investigate fraud? [2:47:35] What do you think? [2:47:38] MR. [2:47:39] I think I came here prepared to talk about the fraud that's taking place in [2:47:41] my state. [2:47:42] MR. [2:47:43] Okay. [2:47:44] MR. [2:47:45] And contain my testimony to the purpose of the hearing. [2:47:46] MR. [2:47:47] Representative Robbins? [2:47:48] MS. [2:47:49] I think we should investigate credible allegations of fraud wherever they are, [2:47:50] but we don't know the specifics of that circumstance. [2:47:51] MR. [2:47:52] Thank you. [2:47:53] I 100 percent agree with you, Representative. [2:47:54] And actually, you know, I want to talk about something that's really important because [2:47:55] my colleague, Dave Minn, just brought up something. [2:47:57] And you know, Chair Comer, you had said if there's credible allegations, if there's evidence, [2:48:04] we should look into it. [2:48:05] And I have something for us to look into. [2:48:06] This is not a hypothetical. [2:48:08] This happened in my state of Florida. [2:48:09] Governor Ron DeSantis, Casey DeSantis, and the Hope Florida Foundation have been subject [2:48:13] to a bipartisan investigation and now a criminal investigation for this exact same thing I [2:48:19] just talked about. [2:48:20] So if we're going to be here going state by state in this committee talking about fraud, [2:48:25] I'm okay with doing that. [2:48:26] But let's make sure it's not just Democratic states, like Dave Minn said, and let's also [2:48:30] look at Republican-led states as well. [2:48:33] Because what happened in my state of Florida is $10 million of Medicaid money. [2:48:38] It was funneled to the governor's wife's nonprofit. [2:48:41] Then that nonprofit took that money and gave it to political action committees helping [2:48:46] her husband. [2:48:47] I'd like to insert for the record a unanimous consent from the New York Times. [2:48:51] Why did a charity tied to Casey DeSantis suddenly get $10 million boost? [2:48:55] Without objection, so ordered. [2:48:56] Chair Comer, will you commit to working with me to schedule a hearing on this? [2:48:59] Get the stuff to me and we'll definitely look at $10 million. [2:49:03] We're talking about $9 billion today. [2:49:04] But yeah, get that to me. [2:49:06] Yeah, I'll get it to you. [2:49:07] Definitely a lower amount of money, but $10 million of Medicaid money going to being funneled [2:49:12] from taxpayer Floridians to political action committees is fraud and is criminal. [2:49:17] This is a bipartisan investigation looked at by both Democrats and Republicans, and [2:49:21] I definitely expect this committee to do the same thing. [2:49:24] And I have one more thing I want to talk about that Representative Ansari brought up. [2:49:28] President Trump reposted conspiracy theories on his Truth Social account about the murder [2:49:33] of Minnesota state legislators Mark and Melissa Hortman that suggests that Minnesota governor [2:49:37] Tim Walz had the Hortmans assassinated. [2:49:40] Governor Walz says this behavior will get more innocent people killed, and the Hortman [2:49:44] children have come out on the president and said and called on the president to take the [2:49:50] statements down. [2:49:51] I think it is very important that we are very clear that we condemn this type of behavior. [2:49:56] So I just want to go down the line and hear if you agree with the Hortman children that [2:50:00] we should condemn and we asked the president to take down this post. [2:50:05] Mr. Bayou? [2:50:06] Yes. [2:50:07] Representative? [2:50:09] So as the longest-serving member on this panel in Minnesota, I am so offended that [2:50:13] anybody would accuse anybody of the assassination other than Lance Bolter because this was a [2:50:19] deep, deep scar in the state of Minnesota and all of us personally. [2:50:22] I served with Melissa Hortman my entire 13 years and it is just unbelievably beyond the [2:50:28] pale that we are talking about that right now. [2:50:29] Do you agree that we should call on the president to take down the post? [2:50:33] That's it? [2:50:34] I said what I said. [2:50:35] I think that it's beyond the pale that anybody talk about anyone murdering— [2:50:37] Okay. [2:50:38] That anybody assassinating Melissa Hortman except for Lance Bolter. [2:50:40] We'll move on. [2:50:41] Representative Hudson? [2:50:42] We'll move on. [2:50:43] Thank you, ma'am. [2:50:44] Thank you, ma'am. [2:50:45] We'll move on. [2:50:46] You can't call on the president. [2:50:47] Take down this post. [2:50:48] We'll move on to Representative Hudson. [2:50:49] It's just a yes or no. [2:50:50] I cannot deceive the committee by giving it a binary. [2:50:53] I have spoken to this many times. [2:50:55] I have renounced the content of these ridiculous conspiracy theories and I've called them ridiculous [2:51:00] on multiple occasions. [2:51:01] That's great. [2:51:02] Do you think it's appropriate for the president of the United States to replace that? [2:51:03] I am not going to engage in the silly condemnation game— [2:51:06] No, no, no. [2:51:07] This is not— [2:51:08] No, no, no. [2:51:09] In a context— [2:51:10] This is not silly. [2:51:11] This is the president— [2:51:12] What did you have to say about the assassination of Charlie Kirk? [2:51:13] I'll reclaim my time. [2:51:14] I'll reclaim my time. [2:51:15] What did you have to say about Jay Jones, who's the chief law enforcement officer in [2:51:16] the state of Virginia fantasizing about shooting Republicans and watching kids die in their [2:51:19] mother's arms? [2:51:20] I'll reclaim my time. [2:51:21] I'll reclaim my time. [2:51:22] The gentleman will stop talking on my time. [2:51:23] I'm not playing this game in that context ever. [2:51:26] The gentleman will stop talking on my time. [2:51:29] Order, order, order. [2:51:30] We'll give you a few seconds to close, Mr. Frost. [2:51:32] A few seconds. [2:51:33] I have to comment on this because this is not silly. [2:51:35] It is not silly to expect good behavior. [2:51:38] From the people at the highest levels of our government. [2:51:40] Do you expect from Jay Jones? [2:51:41] No, not your time. [2:51:42] Do you expect from Jay Jones? [2:51:43] Not your time. [2:51:44] Including the president of the United States. [2:51:46] I yield back. [2:51:47] All right. [2:51:48] Gentleman yields back. [2:51:49] Chair recognizes Mr. Timmons from South Carolina. [2:51:51] Is that right? [2:51:52] Yeah. [2:51:53] Mr. Timmons. [2:51:54] Mr. Chairman, we're only one week into 2026, and the Democrats are having a tough [2:51:58] year. [2:51:59] Here we are. [2:52:00] This should not be a partisan issue. [2:52:02] We've uncovered $9 billion in fraud. [2:52:04] It doesn't matter if it's a red state or a blue state. [2:52:06] That's $9 billion. [2:52:07] And you've got to remember this. [2:52:08] Remember, the purpose of these social safety nets is to help people that need help. [2:52:11] And when we have that amount of fraud, it undermines the purpose of the social safety [2:52:15] nets. [2:52:16] The people that want and need the benefits that they are deserving because they're American [2:52:20] citizens, they're unable to get them because people are stealing money. [2:52:24] And it's even somewhat comical because just a few days ago when the Trump administration [2:52:30] executed the most incredible, I mean, they technically executed a warrant on Maduro, [2:52:35] a narco terrorist. [2:52:36] They were able to not have a single candidate. [2:52:38] They had a single casualty from our military. [2:52:40] They limited collateral damage, and they executed what is truly just a perfect tactical military [2:52:45] operation. [2:52:46] And the Democrats have gone ballistic over it, gone ballistic. [2:52:49] This man has had warrants out for his arrest for five years. [2:52:52] He's had a $25 million bounty, which was increased to a $50 million bounty. [2:52:56] This is not a partisan issue. [2:52:58] He has killed hundreds of thousands of Americans over the last few decades because he's sent [2:53:02] drugs here for Americans to use, and they've died from it. [2:53:05] This is not a partisan issue. [2:53:07] Venezuela was a huge step in the right direction. [2:53:11] Peace through strength works. [2:53:12] We got to get together, and we got to work on the issues that the American people want [2:53:17] us to work on. [2:53:18] And seeking out waste, fraud, and abuse, seeking out $9 billion in theft of social safety net [2:53:25] money is something that should not be partisan. [2:53:27] And the fact that my colleagues across the aisle are going ballistic over these ridiculous [2:53:31] ancillary issues and trying to cast shade over what should not be a partisan issue is [2:53:38] just ridiculous. [2:53:39] So get it together. [2:53:40] We need to do the job that the American people sent us here to do. [2:53:43] I want to actually point something out. [2:53:45] So, Representative Robbins, my understanding is that around $250 million in fraud was found [2:53:52] in the four years of the Biden administration. [2:53:54] There were a number of indictments, dozens of indictments. [2:53:57] Is that number about right? [2:53:58] Yes, I think now they're up to about $310 million for the Feeding Our Future. [2:54:01] All right, thank you. [2:54:02] So in the last year, in the last year, we're at $9 billion? [2:54:07] Is that the number you got? [2:54:08] Yes. [2:54:10] The U.S. [2:54:11] has estimated that the total fraud in the Medicaid portion, which has nothing to do [2:54:14] with Feeding Our Future, so it's on top of that $310 million, is half of it is fraud. [2:54:19] Thank you. [2:54:20] Mr. Billy, you see where I'm going with this? [2:54:21] So you're saying that we have had, we've decimated the budget of the IGs, which, by [2:54:25] the way, weren't doing their jobs because we've uncovered, I mean, $8.5, $8.6 billion [2:54:32] more dollars in fraud with less resources. [2:54:35] So how do you explain your testimony earlier that we've decimated the entities that are [2:54:40] designed to investigate fraud when we've uncovered exponentially more fraud with less resources? [2:54:45] How do you, how do you explain that? [2:54:47] You know, what we've been talking about today is not just regular fraud, but public corruption. [2:54:52] So this is the thing, this thing. [2:54:53] We are not having a hearing on public corruption. [2:54:54] We are having a hearing on $9 billion in fraud associated with Minnesota social safety nets. [2:55:00] And so you keep pushing back on that, that you keep pushing back on this narrative that [2:55:04] we should be seeking out waste, fraud, and abuse everywhere by saying that the Trump [2:55:08] administration has decimated the government. [2:55:10] The entities that are designed to seek out waste, fraud, and abuse, and yet those same [2:55:14] entities have uncovered exponentially more fraud. [2:55:18] The problem is that they haven't charged any public officials, and the public integrity [2:55:23] section has been- [2:55:24] Your logic is flawed, and you know your logic is flawed. [2:55:25] I just wanted to point it out. [2:55:26] It's okay. [2:55:27] So I guess I want to get to this. [2:55:28] We have a limited amount of money. [2:55:30] We have $37 trillion in debt. [2:55:32] We run a $2 trillion annual deficit, and we have spent much of this year seeking out waste, [2:55:38] fraud, and abuse, trying to... [2:55:39] We're trying to get our fiscal house back in order because we're running out of time. [2:55:43] So this cannot be a partisan issue. [2:55:45] We cannot solve these problems without a bipartisan approach. [2:55:49] So I have a bill that I filed. [2:55:51] It's called the TABS Act. [2:55:52] And what it does is it uses technology to confirm income eligibility. [2:55:56] So $1.5 trillion every year go to social safety nets that are means tested, meaning depending [2:56:03] on where you live, if you make too much money, you don't get them. [2:56:06] And so if we use technology to... [2:56:08] If we use technology to real time verify, you can actually give the social safety net [2:56:12] to the person that's seeking it way faster, in most cases immediately, and then you can [2:56:16] remove them from that social safety net in real time. [2:56:20] In the big, beautiful bill, we changed it from once a year to twice a year, and that [2:56:24] saved $10 billion. [2:56:25] If you do it in real time, you are going to save 20% of the money. [2:56:29] So if you extrapolate that over 10 years, it's about $2.5 trillion in savings for means [2:56:35] tested social safety nets. [2:56:36] These are the kind of things we need to be doing. [2:56:37] This is not a partisan issue. [2:56:39] We all agree that people fall on hard times, and we need to help them up. [2:56:43] We need to help them up. [2:56:44] But if we have $9 billion of fraud in Minnesota, imagine what we have in California. [2:56:50] Imagine what we have in New York. [2:56:51] Imagine what we have across this country, and we've got to get a handle on it because [2:56:54] we're running out of time. [2:56:55] We can't keep spending money we don't have. [2:56:57] With that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back. [2:56:58] Thank you. [2:57:00] Gentleman yields back. [2:57:01] Chair now recognizes Mr. Palmer from Alabama. [2:57:03] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [2:57:05] Ms. Robbins, how long do you think the Corrupt Act takes? [2:57:08] How long do you think the Corrupt Activity's been going on in Minnesota? [2:57:13] We have whistleblower reports dating back from 2013 or 2014, so through the Dayton administration [2:57:19] and the Walz administration. [2:57:20] Over a decade. [2:57:21] Over a decade. [2:57:22] Okay. [2:57:23] Why is it that we're just now seeing, having this fully uncovered, and I'm not sure it's [2:57:29] fully uncovered yet, why is it, I mean, you've got an attorney general, you've got a governor [2:57:34] who claims to be pure as the driven snow, and you get a lot of snow in Minnesota. [2:57:39] Why is it just now coming out? [2:57:42] Well, because it's been a failure of the administration, particularly our Office of Management and Budget, [2:57:48] who has responsibility constitutionally for this, and they have not been doing their job. [2:57:52] But because we were able to create this oversight committee, it's the first time in the history [2:57:56] of our legislature we've had an oversight committee. [2:57:58] Would you agree that with this fraud going on over a decade, and basically the lackadaisical [2:58:05] or disinterested approach from your government? [2:58:10] That that's why it's necessary for the oversight committee here in Congress to take this up? [2:58:17] Would you agree with that? [2:58:18] I do. [2:58:19] We're grateful for your help, because we don't have the resources, and we don't have subpoena [2:58:23] power, and some of the tools that you have. [2:58:25] Well, the reason that, one of the reasons that I don't think we need to bring Mississippi [2:58:29] in here is because they've been very aggressive in their investigation and prosecution, along [2:58:33] with the U.S. Attorney's Office. [2:58:35] And I just want to point that out, Mr. Chairman, that we wouldn't be sitting here today asking [2:58:40] questions that we're having to ask if Governor, the Governor of Minnesota, Walz, and the Attorney [2:58:49] General, and the other people that are responsible for oversight, had acted expeditiously in [2:58:56] investigating this themselves. [2:58:58] So that's why we're here, isn't it? [2:59:00] Yes, sir. [2:59:02] I appreciate all of you being here. [2:59:04] The charges and reports of fraudulent autism centers in Minnesota are shocking to me. [2:59:11] Could you describe to us your committee's findings in this area, Ms. Robbins, and how [2:59:18] these fraudsters were operating? [2:59:21] It is really shocking. [2:59:22] So there were autism centers that are a Medicaid waiver program, and people were getting paid [2:59:29] kickbacks to sign their kids up to participate in the autism center so they could build Medicaid. [2:59:35] And these children didn't necessarily have autism. [2:59:37] We have substantiated court documented in court. [2:59:41] We have defended by the U.S. Attorney how the parents were getting their kids falsely [2:59:46] diagnosed with autism so that then they could get a kickback to participate in building Medicaid [2:59:52] for autism services. [2:59:53] So it's not just the fraud in terms of money. [2:59:56] It's the abuse of children by their parents that has taken place here. [3:00:04] And they were able to defraud the EDIBI program millions? [3:00:11] Yes. [3:00:12] It's at the tip of the iceberg in understanding it. [3:00:14] There's been a handful of charges, but we expect more. [3:00:17] Mr. Hudson, do you think General Ellison or Governor Walz was aware of the fraud prior [3:00:24] to the exposure that has been brought now? [3:00:28] Oh, there's simply no doubt. [3:00:30] I mean, again, referring to the exhibit that I submitted with my testimony, 2,500 pages [3:00:35] of OLA reports citing all of the red flags and risk factors, and they did not take appropriate action. [3:00:42] Why do you think they did that? [3:00:45] Mr. Hudson and Ms. Rack, she's about to hit her button, so go ahead. [3:00:51] In my opinion, the simplest answer, the most logical answer, is that they didn't want to know the answer to the question [3:01:00] because the answer to the question was going to require them to take action against one of their favorite political constituents. [3:01:05] But it's also been alleged that they may have benefited. [3:01:07] Yeah, that has been alleged, and I hope the evidence is entered into the record through investigation and prosecution. [3:01:14] Well, it's going to be a thorough investigation. [3:01:16] Ms. Rack, you were about to say something. [3:01:18] Just really quickly. [3:01:19] So I think it should be noted, we haven't said this yet, but Jim Nobles was our legislative auditor for 38 years, [3:01:26] and he did an article or he did a statement in the Star Tribune on December 29th of 25, [3:01:31] and he said literally all the state needed to do was implement standard financial controls and oversight. [3:01:37] Why the Walz administration did not do that is still a mystery, but it's disturbing. [3:01:43] Okay. [3:01:44] Mr. Chairman, I think we just heard fully. [3:01:46] There's a little justification for why we're having to have this hearing, why we'll have to follow up, [3:01:50] because clearly the state of Minnesota had almost a lack of interest, maybe even an interest in covering it up. [3:01:59] And so with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back and look forward to further investigating this. [3:02:06] Thank you, Mr. Palmer. [3:02:07] I think the evidence is clear as well. [3:02:10] Chair, now recognized, Ms. Luna from Florida. [3:02:12] Thank you, Chairman Comer. [3:02:13] Before I get to the questioning of some of our witnesses today, and thank you again for being here, [3:02:18] I would like to make a motion to subpoena journalist Seth Harp for leaking classified information, [3:02:22] including doxing a Delta Force commander on Operation Absolute Resolve, [3:02:26] which liberated the Venezuelan people and brought a terrorist dictator to the United States to face justice for his crimes against American citizens. [3:02:35] A motion has been made. [3:02:36] Another motion by Ms. Luna. [3:02:38] The committee will hold this motion in abeyance until the end of today's hearing. [3:02:42] The committee will now proceed. [3:02:44] Thank you, Chairman Comer. [3:02:45] I make a motion to request this in writing. [3:02:47] Hold on. [3:02:48] Hold on. [3:02:49] We'd like to request this in writing. [3:02:51] Okay. [3:02:52] I can submit that. [3:02:53] If I can just write after this, I'll totally submit that to you guys because I have some other motions that we're voting on at the end. [3:02:58] This is a great motion in writing. [3:03:02] Thank you. [3:03:03] We want everyone on record for this one. [3:03:04] Thank you. [3:03:05] Chair recognizes Ms. Luna. [3:03:06] Thank you, Chairman Comer. [3:03:08] Honorable Robbins, based on your record before your committee, [3:03:11] when did Governor Walz first become aware of widespread fraud in Minnesota social service programs? [3:03:16] I would assume that he has been aware of it since he ran for office very recently. [3:03:21] He's been aware of it since he ran for governor in 2018. [3:03:24] By 2017, DHS investigators warned CCAP fraud could exceed 50%. [3:03:29] Was that information elevated to the governor's office? [3:03:33] Yes. [3:03:34] There was an OLA report. [3:03:35] Thank you, ma'am. [3:03:36] By 2020, state officials knew feeding our future invoices were fraudulent. [3:03:40] We know that payments continue to the AG's knowledge. [3:03:42] Did they continue to the governor's knowledge as well? [3:03:45] Yes. [3:03:46] Attorney General Ellison agreed on tape to fight Minnesota's own Department of Human and Health Services in exchange for Somali political information. [3:03:51] In your personal opinion, do you believe it is a possibility that Governor Walz also made that personal deal, [3:03:58] or that he at least knew about the Attorney General's agreement? [3:04:01] I don't know. [3:04:02] Okay. [3:04:03] I don't want to rehash what you guys have spent hours answering. [3:04:07] We know that there's a big issue with the fraud in Minnesota. [3:04:10] So on a number of things, I'd first like to point out, thank you for being here today, [3:04:14] but because of your testimony and because of some of the evidence that we've seen brought forward, [3:04:18] as well as I'm sure the fact that this committee, I assume, [3:04:21] at Chairman Comer's direction will be soon subpoenaing AG Ellison, [3:04:26] I would like to make criminal referrals regarding Governor Walz as well as AG Ellison. [3:04:32] As you know, U.S. Code 371 and U.S. Code 2, [3:04:36] which deals with criminalized conspiracies to defraud the United States [3:04:39] and establishes liability for individuals who knowingly aid or abet the commission of federal offense, [3:04:44] includes willing full blindness or deliberate inaction where duties to act exist. [3:04:49] So I will be referring them later on. [3:04:50] Thank you. [3:04:51] This is the last couple of questions that I have today. [3:04:53] Now, aside from that, I do just want to point out that there is a statute [3:04:57] that you can denaturalize citizens if their applications were fraudulent [3:05:00] and also to, if within 10 years of their naturalization, that they committed fraud in the U.S. [3:05:06] And so I take this very seriously and it's very unfortunate that these people chose to do this [3:05:11] because being an American citizen is not a right. [3:05:14] It's a privilege especially if you were not born here. [3:05:17] And so with that idea in mind, [3:05:20] that these criminals took advantage of the very country that gave them refuge. [3:05:24] They do not deserve the privilege of remaining here, [3:05:26] and frankly, they don't deserve to even be imprisoned here, [3:05:29] which is why, as the chairwoman of the El Salvador caucus, [3:05:32] I work very strongly with President Bukele, [3:05:34] and we also know that SECOT has proven to be a great facility to house people [3:05:39] that are denaturalized and deemed not worthy of U.S. citizenship, [3:05:42] and I will be making referrals for those individuals if they are found guilty. [3:05:46] Thank you for being here today. [3:05:50] Chairman, I yield my time. [3:05:50] Will you yield the last two minutes you had? [3:05:55] Yes, sir, to you. [3:05:56] All right. [3:05:56] So we've talked a lot about Governor Walz. [3:06:00] I think you've all done a tremendous job codifying the fact [3:06:05] that there's massive amounts of waste in Minnesota. [3:06:07] This has been taking place for years, and yet nothing's been done. [3:06:12] The Democrats want to keep spending more money. [3:06:14] They're like, why are we cutting off funding temporarily? [3:06:16] We need to spend more money, throw more money at the problem. [3:06:19] That's not working. [3:06:20] The American people aren't going to have it. [3:06:22] Thank you all for being here today. [3:06:23] To talk about this, I know it takes a lot of courage, [3:06:27] and I'm sure you're probably getting threats from certain people [3:06:32] that have benefited from this and others that are misinformed [3:06:36] by some of my colleagues on the other side of the aisle. [3:06:40] We've talked about Walz. [3:06:42] You've stated that Walz has been well aware of this, [3:06:45] but we haven't talked a lot about Attorney General Ellison. [3:06:49] Very quickly, do you all have anything to add about his knowledge? [3:06:54] Was he? [3:06:55] Aware of this? [3:06:56] Go ahead. [3:06:57] Thank you. [3:06:58] I actually had that document in front of me that I wanted to share. [3:07:01] This is from a press release that we actually confronted him with [3:07:05] when we had a hearing and he was in front of us. [3:07:08] The press release is from September 26th of 2022. [3:07:12] This is a press release from his office. [3:07:15] It says, [3:07:15] Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison and his office [3:07:18] have been deeply involved for two years in holding Feeding Our Future accountable. [3:07:22] Now, [3:07:24] the tape that we've been talking about, [3:07:25] as well, [3:07:26] where he said he would go to bat for the fraudsters against state agencies, [3:07:30] which, by the way, [3:07:31] were his clients, [3:07:32] happened one year prior to this press release. [3:07:36] So if he had been working to oust the fraudsters for Feeding Our Future, [3:07:43] he would have known who they were at the time of that meeting. [3:07:46] He claimed in front of us that he did not know who they were. [3:07:49] That was his reason to meet with them. [3:07:51] And by the way, [3:07:52] I would say that he did not meet with him in his official office, [3:07:55] which is, [3:07:55] highly suspect. [3:07:57] He met with him at a strip mall, [3:07:59] I think, [3:07:59] something like that. [3:08:00] Okay. [3:08:01] Well, [3:08:01] we've invited him to be at our next hearing on this. [3:08:05] If he's not, [3:08:05] if he doesn't respond very soon, [3:08:07] he will be receiving a subpoena to be here at the next hearing. [3:08:10] And we look forward to working with you and any other whistleblowers who want to come forward [3:08:14] to ask Mr. Ellison specific questions. [3:08:17] Now, [3:08:18] Chair recognizes Mr. Gill for unanimous consent. [3:08:21] I've got a unanimous consent request. [3:08:22] To enter into the record, [3:08:24] former legislative auditor, [3:08:26] is the Walt administration finally awake about fraud? [3:08:30] Without objection, [3:08:30] so ordered. [3:08:32] Chair now recognizes Mr. [3:08:34] Are you ready, [3:08:34] Mr. Langworthy? [3:08:35] Or so, [3:08:38] so Mr. [3:08:39] McGuire, [3:08:39] Chair recognizes Mr. [3:08:40] McGuire from Virginia for five minutes. [3:08:43] Thank you, [3:08:43] Mr. [3:08:43] Chairman, [3:08:44] and thank you to our witnesses for being here today and for your tireless work on your committee to investigate and sound the alarm for fraud in your state. [3:08:53] After receiving a mandate from the American people and taking office, [3:08:55] President Trump and this administration have worked tirelessly to root out and put an end to fraud. [3:08:59] And put an end to waste fraud and abuse in our federal government. [3:09:03] The recent child care fraud that has come to light in Minnesota is just the latest example of why the American people deserve to have oversight and how their taxpayer dollars are being spent talking with constituents in my district. [3:09:15] I had one guy say to me, [3:09:17] he said, [3:09:17] John, [3:09:17] uh, [3:09:18] why? [3:09:19] Why should we even pay taxes? [3:09:21] The signal that we're getting around our country is that you do everything right and you pay your taxes and these folks are buying homes in foreign countries. [3:09:29] Uh, [3:09:30] these these fraudsters are stealing from the American people. [3:09:33] We the people and one one constituent said we're not paying taxes, [3:09:38] we're paying criminals. [3:09:40] We need to know where our taxpayer dollars are going. [3:09:43] The 20 million or so illegal aliens that came into our country have come here to break the camp the donkey's back. [3:09:50] You know, [3:09:50] if you want to break a donkey's back, [3:09:52] you keep loading it on and loading it on until his back breaks and we're sick and tired of the waste, [3:09:57] fraud and abuse. [3:09:58] For some reason, [3:09:59] it seems like our our friends on the other side of the aisle, [3:10:02] partner with the fraudsters and not those people that are identifying the fraud. [3:10:05] You may remember during the summer of love when they were burning our cities for 80 days instead of supporting the police, [3:10:12] they wanted to defund the police and use their taxpayer their dollars to bail them out of jail. [3:10:17] So they continue burning our cities. [3:10:19] Makes no sense. [3:10:20] Recently we we got Maduro out of his country to stand trial for killing and terrorizing thousands of American citizens. [3:10:29] And instead of telling the military what a great job they did, [3:10:32] they had protests around the country for Maduro. [3:10:35] And by the way, [3:10:36] I had a friend in the airport and Buenos Aires when it was announced the entire airport cheered and people in Venezuela said that they've been eaten out of trash cans and family members got into prostitution because their family was starving. [3:10:48] They're trying to survive as a Navy SEAL veteran. [3:10:50] I served in Venezuela during the 90s and it was one of the most prosperous, [3:10:54] strongest economic country, [3:10:57] safest places in South America, [3:10:58] and they've ruined it. [3:10:59] So anyway, [3:11:00] the people are sick and tired of the waste. [3:11:02] Waste, fraud and abuse in reference to the most recent child care fraud scandal coming in light of a spokesperson for Governor Walz said the governor has worked for years to crack down on fraud and asked the state legislature for more authority to take aggression on this action. [3:11:18] He has strengthened oversight. [3:11:19] Miss Robinson, Mr Hudson and Mr Rourke as members of the Fraud Protection Prevention and State Agency and Oversight Committee. [3:11:26] Do you agree that Governor Walz has straight strengthened oversight in the state of Minnesota? [3:11:30] Yes or no? [3:11:32] No. [3:11:33] He belatedly. [3:11:34] He took action this fall because of the enormous pressure that is coming to bear. [3:11:38] But his agencies always had the authority that he trumpeted now. [3:11:43] No, he simplified the problem by pretending that you can solve it by appointing somebody to look at it. [3:11:48] This needs systemic reform. [3:11:51] He absolutely shredded oversight simply. [3:11:55] Yeah, I heard through testimony that it was career suicide to speak up. [3:11:58] But Miss Robinson, you've been very vocal about the mistreatment of whistleblowers by Governor Walz. [3:12:03] Can you speak to some of the ways that Governor Walz and his administration have [3:12:06] coordinated against whistleblowers? [3:12:08] Yes, I've met with many whistleblowers who have spoken about how they were told that they would be demoted or reassigned. [3:12:16] I know of people who were reassigned. [3:12:19] We also know that they were surveilled in their place of work when people thought they might be the quote, leaker. [3:12:25] Their email and their chat functions were surveilled electronically for words like fraud or whistleblower or compliance or overbilling. [3:12:35] So they are under a great deal of stress in the Department of Human Services, and we are [3:12:41] grateful for the whistleblowers who have spoken out to us. [3:12:44] So based on all of your knowledge about this scandal or this fraud in Minnesota, I think [3:12:49] it's the tip of the iceberg. [3:12:50] We're like $37 trillion in debt, and now I don't know what it is about Somali, but apparently [3:12:55] they're using that for Somali daycare centers in Washington state now, and it's come to [3:12:59] light that there's some daycare center fraud in Ohio as well associated with Somali. [3:13:03] So I think we're just the tip of the iceberg, and there's waste, fraud, and abuse everywhere. [3:13:08] Maybe a big chunk of our national debt comes from waste, fraud, and abuse, so I don't care [3:13:12] if it's a red state or a blue state. [3:13:14] We need to have oversight, and we need to protect the American people's taxpayer dollars. [3:13:21] The childcare fraud brought to light by Nick Shirley is just the latest scandal. [3:13:26] In 2022, federal prosecutors charged 47 defendants, majority of whom were from the Minnesota Somali [3:13:31] community, for the role they played. [3:13:33] And [3:13:34] the [3:13:41] Democrats? [3:13:42] No, the Feed in Our Future. [3:13:43] What's going on with them now? [3:13:44] So that program was a COVID era child nutrition program, and that is over, but there's ongoing [3:13:50] child nutrition programs that could be fraudulent. [3:13:53] So I think they're still working their way through the Feeding Our Future case, but I [3:13:56] think there will be need for ongoing oversight of child nutrition programs. [3:14:00] With that, I yield back. [3:14:01] Thank you. [3:14:05] Chair now recognizes Mr. Langworthy from Buffalo, New York. [3:14:08] Thank you. [3:14:09] Okay, Chair recognizes, we will go to Mr. Stauber, are you ready, prepared, or Ms. Fischbach? [3:14:21] Yeah, Representative Fischbach prior to me, thank you. [3:14:25] Okay, Chair recognize, we're going to get to our wave ons, and we may have a few more [3:14:29] that will come in. [3:14:30] We have a few more Republicans haven't asked questions yet, but Ms. Fischbach, you're recognized [3:14:35] for five minutes. [3:14:36] Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and before I begin my remarks, I want to enter into the [3:14:40] record. [3:14:41] This is an email shared by DHS whistleblowers. [3:14:43] The email was written by a senior DHS official and sent to other DHS leaders. [3:14:49] In the email, the DHS official talks about using military intelligence resources to [3:14:54] track down whistleblowers' exact location. [3:14:57] And this issue, and I believe this email was alluded to by Representative Rarick in her [3:15:01] testimony. [3:15:02] With that objection to order. [3:15:03] Thank you so much, and I have one more, and I ask for unanimous consent to enter into [3:15:06] the record, an article titled, Minnesota Government Whistleblowers Claim They Were [3:15:11] Electronically Surveilled, Had Promotions Denied, in the New York Post, dated January [3:15:17] 3rd, 2026. [3:15:18] With that objection to order. [3:15:19] Thank you, Mr. Chair, and first, I would like to say thank you, Mr. Chair, for allowing [3:15:23] us to wave on. [3:15:24] This is an incredibly important issue in our state and across the country, and it's something [3:15:30] that comes up all the time when we're out in the district, and so I thank, and I thank [3:15:36] all of the legislators for being here, and for all of your work that you do in order [3:15:40] to expose this, and dig into it, and really figure out what's going on. [3:15:44] I think it was Mr. Burlinson who asked if we were embarrassed, but I'm not embarrassed [3:15:49] to be from Minnesota. [3:15:50] What I am is really sad that this is happening, and this is what Minnesota is known for now, [3:15:58] this horrible fraud, because there's wonderful things that Minnesota does have to offer, [3:16:01] and so as a lifelong Minnesotan, it makes me sad that this is what we're having to talk [3:16:06] about. [3:16:07] And while some may want to downplay this fraud, I want to be clear. [3:16:11] This is an explicit and egregious cover-up on the theft of taxpayer dollars, and hundreds [3:16:18] of millions stolen from programs intended to help feed children, provide housing, provide [3:16:24] childcare, even help individuals with autism, and we also have reports that some of this [3:16:29] funding is going to terrorist organizations, like was mentioned earlier. [3:16:35] Democrats have been in charge in Minnesota for years, and I was in the Minnesota legislature. [3:16:41] I know. [3:16:42] And they specifically wrote and passed legislation that reduced oversight when handing out federal [3:16:48] funds. [3:16:49] Democrats seized on COVID, in particular, to yank back fraud protections, just so that [3:16:55] they could hand out money as fast as possible. [3:16:58] That was the whole thing. [3:16:59] That was the mantra during COVID, is we've got to get it out fast, so we can't have all [3:17:03] these regulations and checks and balances on them. [3:17:07] Unfortunately, though, this problem isn't new. [3:17:12] It wasn't just from COVID in Minnesota. [3:17:15] Whistleblowers report that they've been making reports for years. [3:17:19] The Democrat leadership at the state level in Minnesota has been actively suppressing [3:17:24] whistleblowers, and I think some of the testimony that you've all given today is pointing that [3:17:29] out. [3:17:30] And that's not an opinion. [3:17:32] It is fact. [3:17:33] It's fact. [3:17:35] So I'm going to ask, maybe we're going to go over some of this once again, but I want [3:17:39] to make sure that everybody understands that there's a clear answer. [3:17:42] The tweet, where did my sign go? [3:17:48] I have a sign. [3:17:54] Maybe we don't. [3:17:56] But there's an account that is working that is, I believe, from the whistleblowers. [3:18:02] And I just wanted to note, there we go, thank you. [3:18:06] This behind me is the account, is it run by one whistleblower? [3:18:12] Madam Congressman, no, it actually is comprised of over 1,000 state employees across multiple [3:18:20] state agencies. [3:18:21] This is not just a couple of people. [3:18:24] This is a lot, a lot of people bringing this to light. [3:18:29] And were the whistleblowers ever made to feel unsafe on their attempts to report fraud? [3:18:34] Yes, absolutely. [3:18:35] I can give you two quotes that they have in the seven-page document that was submitted [3:18:39] for this committee hearing. [3:18:41] Two things that they said is, think about your home and what if you lose your job? [3:18:46] So these are things said to whistleblowers. [3:18:48] Second thing was, we need information about where your kids go to school and where they're [3:18:52] going to go to school. [3:18:53] And we need to know where their bus stops are. [3:18:55] And Representative Rigg, this is just incredible stuff. [3:18:57] And I know you mentioned it before, but I do think it's worth repeating, because we [3:19:01] had whistleblowers. [3:19:03] This could have been happening, but there has been Democrat administration after Democrat [3:19:08] administration, including Walz and the newer, they have not addressed these things. [3:19:16] And they have not said, hey, whistleblowers, we believe you and we're going to do something [3:19:21] about it. [3:19:22] And so that's the concern. [3:19:23] And I just want to, I'm running low on time, but I wanted to just ask Representative Robbins, [3:19:30] and I'm sorry, Mr. Hudson, but you've had some really good moments today. [3:19:34] So I'll go to Representative Robbins. [3:19:38] As chair of the committee, if these claims of retaliatory action are true, then it violates [3:19:44] the law. [3:19:45] So if these claims are true, then a state agency is violating our own state whistleblowers [3:19:49] laws. [3:19:50] Is that correct? [3:19:53] Sorry. [3:19:54] The statute is for civil penalties. [3:19:56] There is no criminal penalty for whistleblower retaliation in statute currently, but we are [3:20:02] looking at that for the next session. [3:20:05] But that's why when people say, why haven't these people who've retaliated against the [3:20:10] whistleblowers been prosecuted? [3:20:11] It's because there is no criminal penalty in statute. [3:20:14] Has there been anything by the attorney general's office, and this is maybe a question that [3:20:18] I'll ask if he's, if he's comes, anything by the attorney general's office that would, [3:20:23] that would deal with it? [3:20:23] No, we, we've passed a law this session to expand whistleblower protection because prior [3:20:30] to this session, they could only report up through their supervisor or to the state attorney [3:20:34] general. [3:20:35] And when they did, they were either ghosted or they were retaliated against. [3:20:39] So we expanded it. [3:20:40] So now they can report to legislators and they can report to law enforcement. [3:20:44] And that's how we got this just deluge of whistleblower reports, because now they have [3:20:48] somewhere safe to report. [3:20:49] And Anna, you have been very indulgent. [3:20:50] And I'll just say after 15 years of democracy. [3:20:51] Yeah. [3:20:52] Yeah. [3:20:53] Because of the force of democratic administration in Minnesota, this massive fraud is coming [3:20:57] to an end because we are going to get to it. [3:20:59] And I appreciate the work that you have done on your committee and we will do whatever [3:21:03] we can to, to continue to bring it to light and prosecute those folks involved. [3:21:08] So thank you very much, Mr. Chair. [3:21:09] I thank you very much. [3:21:10] Thank you. [3:21:11] Mr. Chair, I ask unanimous consent. [3:21:13] Who said that? [3:21:15] Oh yeah, Mr. Bell. [3:21:16] Uh, Mr. Chair, I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record this May 20, 25 report [3:21:21] from the Senate committee on Homeland Security and government enforcement. [3:21:23] and affairs entitled undermining the watchdogs the 19 independent inspectors generals fired by [3:21:31] president trump uncovered billions in fraud waste and abuse without objection to order all right our [3:21:39] next minnesota wave on is uh mr finstead from minnesota thank you chairman comber uh thank you [3:21:46] for holding this important hearing today and thank you to our great minnesota legislators for being [3:21:50] here god bless you and your work uh it's it's been so needed and you have amplified and created [3:21:56] such a voice and opportunity for us to get to the bottom of this so thank you governor wall's [3:22:00] incompetence has put a spotlight on our state by enabling rampant fraud across federally funded [3:22:05] state administered programs and for those that aren't from minnesota in in minnesota the democrat [3:22:11] party goes by the dfl democrat farmer labor well i'll tell you what they kicked the farmer out a [3:22:17] long time ago and that f now stands for fraud and that is wholly owned by governor wall's lieutenant [3:22:23] governor flanagan and it's and it's on them and it will be on them forever [3:22:27] minnesota taxpayers have had more than nine billion dollars in counting taken from their [3:22:31] pockets yet the wall's administration has failed to take meaningful action to stop this since feeding [3:22:37] our future scandal came to light not a single individual responsible for ensuring accountability [3:22:43] to these federally funded programs has been fired not a single this would not stand a second in the [3:22:49] private sector i don't care if you're a bank ceo i don't care if you're a greeter at walmart you [3:22:54] would not have your job with the incompetence that [3:22:57] governor wall's has displayed in minnesota since i was first elected in twenty twenty two i've joined [3:23:02] my republican colleagues in the congressional delegation sending numerous letters to governor [3:23:06] walls and his administration to expose the lawlessness occurring in our state with no [3:23:11] response the minnesota state legislators here testifying have been on the front lines working [3:23:17] to combat this failure and there is and governor wall's failure to responsibly steward over [3:23:22] the nine billion dollars in taxpayer money i thank you for appearing here today with [3:23:28] that [3:23:28] that being said you know we're talking about programs housing stabilization daycare autism centers feeding our future i mean these are all compassionate good minnesota values we want to take care of our neighbors in need if our neighbors [3:23:41] uh... if they're if they're struggling to find uh... the amount of money to put food on the table we'll take the shirt off our back to help our neighbors in need [3:23:49] these fraudsters preyed on the goodwill of minnesotans minnesota is minnesota nice and these fraudsters knew it and they took advantage of us [3:23:58] so i'm gonna start with uh... you represent verick thank you again for your leadership during your tenure in minnesota state [3:24:06] government how long have you been working on this issue and what are some of the [3:24:10] the craziest most egregious things that you've seen uh... really that have been identified by the uh... [3:24:17] incompetency of our c. e. o. governor of our state [3:24:23] and so i was elected in two thousand and thirteen started serving then and i literally have heard about fraud since two thousand and thirteen and i'll tell you every time i hear those words i can't believe they were correct [3:24:25] And I literally have heard about fraud since 2013. [3:24:29] And I'll tell you, every time that it [3:24:30] was raised in committee by myself or my colleagues, [3:24:34] we were essentially called racist and Islamophobic, [3:24:37] or that the fraud really wasn't happening. [3:24:39] I remember with the daycare fraud, [3:24:41] when there was credible allegations [3:24:43] that it was $100 million back in 13, 14, 15, somewhere in there, [3:24:48] they prosecuted closer to $5 to $10 million. [3:24:53] And so instead of the $100 million, [3:24:55] that was what was prosecuted. [3:24:57] And so Democrats would say, well, it's really not. [3:24:59] It's really not $100 million. [3:25:01] It's really just a couple. [3:25:03] And so I know that we had a gentleman behind us come [3:25:07] and testify in front of us. [3:25:09] And he had a tracker. [3:25:11] And they spent the entire time besmirching his good character, [3:25:15] as opposed to actually talking about the fraud. [3:25:17] And that's what we've experienced nonstop every day. [3:25:20] So thank you for that testimony. [3:25:22] But also, thank you for. [3:25:24] For being strong. [3:25:25] Because the politics of intimidation, name-calling, [3:25:28] race-baiting, they want us to shut up. [3:25:31] They want this fraud to continue. [3:25:33] And so thank you for being strong. [3:25:35] I represent 750,000 of our neighbors in southern Minnesota. [3:25:39] It's God's country down there. [3:25:41] And I hear from my neighbors the Democrat control [3:25:45] and what it's done to decimate our daycare industry, [3:25:47] the affordability, the access. [3:25:49] We just struggle with daycare in southern Minnesota. [3:25:52] And I can't help but think that, wow, [3:25:53] $9 billion sure would go a long ways to help our neighbors [3:25:56] in southern Minnesota. [3:25:58] The Walz administration has done crazy things. [3:26:00] They've weaponized the administration. [3:26:02] Heck, we have daycares in southern Minnesota [3:26:04] getting fined for leaving ChapStick on their office desk. [3:26:09] They can find the time to do that, [3:26:10] but they can't find the $9 billion. [3:26:12] Ridiculous. [3:26:14] Representative Robbins, the Democrats [3:26:18] at the state and federal level, so we're [3:26:19] talking everyone from Angie Craig, Ilhan Omar, Tina Smith, [3:26:25] Amy Klobuchar, Tim Walz, Lieutenant Governor Flanagan. [3:26:30] Have they helped at all in your committee work? [3:26:33] Have they been a part of it? [3:26:34] Have they said, hey, we want to help [3:26:35] try to get rid of this fraud? [3:26:37] No, I don't know of any Democrats [3:26:39] who have called out the Walz administration [3:26:41] for their absolute failure to protect taxpayer dollars [3:26:45] and our vulnerable citizens. [3:26:47] So this is just unbelievable to me [3:26:48] that we cannot, in the face of this horrific fraud and crime [3:26:53] that's going on, we can't for a brief moment, [3:26:56] rip the R and the D off our sweatshirt [3:26:59] and put the USA on and say enough is enough. [3:27:02] And so what you're doing and by being here today, [3:27:05] helping us understand the details [3:27:08] and the level of fraud in Minnesota is so important. [3:27:10] We can't thank you enough. [3:27:11] And Chairman Comer, we stand ready to help you [3:27:14] and this committee however we can to put an end to this. [3:27:16] We're serious about it, and we want to work with you. [3:27:19] Chair recognizes Mr. Langworthy from Buffalo. [3:27:22] Well, thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, [3:27:23] and thank you for putting this hearing together so promptly. [3:27:27] This is a very important one, [3:27:28] especially after all of this fraud was unveiled. [3:27:31] I'm not gonna get into belaboring all the facts [3:27:34] that have been revealed here already today, [3:27:36] but Representative Robbins, how long do you believe [3:27:38] that this fraud was allowed to operate in Minnesota [3:27:41] before anyone in state government actually decided to act? [3:27:45] Well, we've had all this going on since 2014 at least, [3:27:50] and the Walz administration's been in office seven years, [3:27:53] and they very belatedly took a few actions this fall. [3:27:57] They only came to the table to help pause program [3:28:00] and have required audits because of the public pressure. [3:28:04] So we're looking at fraud going back 11 years at this point [3:28:07] in untold sums of money. [3:28:09] And with the years that this has gone on, [3:28:12] who in your mind knew about this fraud, [3:28:15] and who do you think looked the other way? [3:28:17] I think everybody in Minnesota knew about it. [3:28:19] There's been so many great local investigative [3:28:22] journalistic stories on this, and I think the governor, [3:28:26] the lieutenant governor, the attorney general, [3:28:28] and all of the agency heads have looked the other way. [3:28:31] I really want to salute you and your colleagues [3:28:33] that were on the front end of this trying to get people [3:28:35] to pay attention to this. [3:28:37] And when you raised attention to this fraud [3:28:40] long before Nick Shirley's outstanding reporting, [3:28:44] Governor Walz and Attorney General Ellison [3:28:47] actually refused to take your claim seriously. [3:28:50] Isn't that correct? [3:28:51] Yes, we gave them a list in February of last year [3:28:54] of 72 child care centers we thought were problematic [3:28:57] that should be investigated. [3:28:58] And to my knowledge, they didn't do anything [3:29:01] with the list we provided. [3:29:02] Now, as an elected official, you obviously are out [3:29:05] in the community. [3:29:07] Is this blatant fraud something that people [3:29:09] on the street are talking about? [3:29:10] All the time. [3:29:11] They're furious. [3:29:12] And they know it. [3:29:14] It's in plain sight. [3:29:15] Everyone knows what's going on, but no one will act. [3:29:18] Well, we're doing our best to act at the committee. [3:29:21] You are. [3:29:21] You are. [3:29:22] But the people that are actually in power, [3:29:24] I come from New York, so I understand what [3:29:26] blue state living is all about. [3:29:28] But [3:29:30] I it's infuriating because we see the same thing in our home [3:29:34] state. [3:29:34] And when you have people in power that refuse to do the [3:29:37] right thing, even though the problem is an obvious one, [3:29:41] it's really disheartening to the constituents and the taxpayers, [3:29:44] the hardworking men and women paying the bills. [3:29:47] And Representative Robbins, do you think that there was a [3:29:50] political calculation that was made by the people that turned [3:29:53] a blind eye, that it was more beneficial for them to allow [3:29:57] and kind of green light the fraud? [3:30:01] Or were they afraid of political consequences if they actually did [3:30:04] something about that from a constituency of Somalis? [3:30:08] Yes, I think they chose to protect the fraudsters and the criminals over [3:30:12] the whistleblowers and the taxpayers, because as the Somali investigator said, [3:30:18] that feckless fear, they had feckless fear from the establishment politicians and state agencies [3:30:24] when they were confronted with charges of racism and Islamophobic. [3:30:28] So they were afraid of being called. [3:30:30] Racist or Islamophobic. [3:30:32] The Democrat politicians and standing up to their base. [3:30:35] So they just turned a blind eye in with this Somali population. [3:30:41] This is part of the Democrat Party's base at this point in Minnesota. [3:30:45] Isn't that correct? [3:30:47] Largely. [3:30:48] Largely. [3:30:48] So so they were basically renting a constituency through the fraud at the expense of the taxpayer. [3:30:55] That's wild. [3:30:57] You don't have to answer that. [3:30:58] I think that we all know the answer to that. [3:31:00] And Representative Hudson. [3:31:02] There is a child care affordability crisis right now and young families in my district [3:31:06] and across the country are making really tough choices to afford quality care. [3:31:11] What impact is this fraud had on wait lists and staffing and simple [3:31:16] simply making resources available for legitimate child care centers in your constituency? [3:31:21] Well, as Mr. Finstad pointed out, in Minnesota, there's been a long standing attack upon [3:31:27] family based child care where folks would run businesses out of their homes. [3:31:31] And when you're out out of the. [3:31:33] City, that's usually the type of child care you would have access to. [3:31:36] And so in a climate where there's already been reductions in the availability of people [3:31:41] to be able to receive child care, again, going back to the firefighter putting out the fire [3:31:46] analogy, yeah, it causes damage with the water, but it's necessary in this time because even [3:31:51] though it hurts because of the blaze that walls allowed to explode. [3:31:59] It's amazing this this $9 billion in fraud went uninvested. [3:32:03] Ignored swept aside for years. [3:32:05] Not a single rogue bureaucrat, but by every Democrat official in the state of Minnesota [3:32:11] who presented with clear damning evidence, chose to look the other way blindly. [3:32:15] I cannot wait to see Tim Walls and Keith Ellison in those seats where you're sitting right now. [3:32:21] But to everyone here, we cannot ignore who truly benefited from this failure beyond the [3:32:27] perpetrators of the fraud and its governor, Tim Walls and the entire Democratic leadership [3:32:32] throughout. [3:32:32] And we have to be very clear about a constituency's votes that they bought by looking the other [3:32:38] way and letting this happen. [3:32:39] They effectively greenlit this theft of billions of dollars in taxpayer money through years [3:32:44] of willful ignorance. [3:32:46] And every single American taxpayer deserves full accountability because this isn't limited [3:32:51] to just Minnesota. [3:32:52] We have a lot of other states to start to look at. [3:32:54] I mean, all the big blue handout states. [3:32:57] I live in one of them. [3:32:58] We have to open the Pandora's box here. [3:33:01] And find out how much money has been siphoned off of them. [3:33:02] I yield back, Mr. Chairman. [3:33:05] Well said. [3:33:05] Chair recognizes Congressman Jack from Georgia. [3:33:08] I also want to echo my support for Congressman Langworthy's remarks. [3:33:13] Certainly associate myself with them. [3:33:15] It is all political and it's very unfortunate. [3:33:18] I want to thank the witnesses for testifying today. [3:33:20] I also like to thank our chairman for convening this hearing so expeditiously. [3:33:23] Less than two weeks have passed since the nation was caught in this just horrible, horrible [3:33:30] crisis watching this unfold. [3:33:32] And here we are with action today. [3:33:35] We've talked a lot about the $9 billion in fraud. [3:33:36] I like quantifying it because more often than not, we throw around the biggest numbers here [3:33:40] in Washington. [3:33:41] And sometimes it's hard to quantify it. [3:33:45] It takes about a second to count a dollar bill. [3:33:47] And that's 9 billion seconds means that if we started counting in 1741, 285 years ago, [3:33:53] we would just now be finishing $9 billion worth of accounts. [3:33:56] So take that data point to heart. [3:33:58] But I want to concentrate my line of questioning today. [3:34:02] On the whistleblowers. [3:34:03] And I know a lot has been discussed. [3:34:05] But as we end near the end of this hearing, I want to start with Representative Rarick. [3:34:10] And it's our understanding, as has been discussed today, the Department of Human Services [3:34:14] whistleblowers claim that they have faced retaliation from senior Minnesota Department [3:34:19] of Human Services officials, including appointees on behalf of Governor Walz. [3:34:23] And I just want you to explain to us again how these administrators have retaliated against [3:34:27] whistleblowers. [3:34:29] Right. [3:34:29] So the threats were pretty intense. [3:34:31] And as I've said, they [3:34:32] their jobs were threatened. [3:34:34] They had strange questions, demanding answers about where their children went to school, [3:34:38] where their bus stops were. [3:34:40] They were told that if you don't do what we tell you to do or not do what we tell you [3:34:45] to do, you'll lose your job. [3:34:46] You lose that job with cause, which means in Minnesota that you don't get unemployment [3:34:52] insurance. [3:34:52] You also could lose your retirement plan. [3:34:56] Also, you'd be blacklisted off of all state agencies. [3:34:59] And I would note that that also includes Hennepin and Ramsey counties, our biggest [3:35:03] counties because they are Democrat run and maybe even the University of Minnesota. [3:35:07] I'm going to throw that into probably some of our biggest cities like Rochester, Duluth, [3:35:12] that are very Democrat leaning. [3:35:16] So it's a very vast threat. [3:35:19] They've also threatened them with sort of a vague, vague military intelligence. [3:35:24] So there was one I have the email right here that was just submitted, I believe, by Congresswoman [3:35:29] Fischbach. [3:35:30] And it says things like, [3:35:32] I would like to use my former colleagues [3:35:36] in the Army to locate where you are using your IP address. [3:35:40] And I don't have that. [3:35:41] He says, I don't have that technology anymore, but I can get it in a heartbeat. [3:35:45] So there were there were vague threats. [3:35:47] And I believe there was more threats beyond that. [3:35:49] But it was very expansive threats. [3:35:51] Well, I'm glad you mentioned that. [3:35:52] I actually wanted to talk about that. [3:35:54] As I understand it, it was the and I think it's to your point, she entered into the record. [3:35:58] But the interim deputy assistant commissioner of operations for the folks watching at home, [3:36:02] the Department of Human Services in Minnesota, alleged allegedly was was trying to use a contact [3:36:07] and the military during the Biden administration to track whistleblowers whereabouts. [3:36:12] I presume this is illegal under Minnesota law, but would love for you to indulge us [3:36:16] as to whether or not it is. [3:36:17] You know, I don't know for sure if it's illegal in Minnesota. [3:36:21] If it's not, it certainly should be. [3:36:23] I think most of what happened to the whistleblowers is illegal. [3:36:27] But the the control over the state, the control over the largest counties, the [3:36:33] control over some of our largest cities is controlled by Democrats. [3:36:36] And so this was allowed to continue. [3:36:39] And to the best of your knowledge, whether it be Governor Dayton or Governor Pawlenty before, [3:36:44] were whistleblowers treated in such a manner under those administrations? [3:36:46] Or is this unique to the Walls administration? [3:36:50] I don't have any reports, particularly through the Pawlenty administration. [3:36:55] I know that fraud was beginning to be uncovered at the very tail end of his administration, [3:37:00] but mostly under Democrat rule. [3:37:02] But I don't know of this kind of retaliation. [3:37:04] And any other administration besides the Walls administration. [3:37:07] Thank you for sharing that with us. [3:37:09] And I just want to close out. [3:37:11] Some Minnesota officials claim they had no knowledge of this fraud, just found out about [3:37:15] it, which I think we all know is demonstrably false. [3:37:18] But I'm just curious, could you elaborate for this committee on the many ways by which [3:37:21] Governor Walls could have been made aware of this? [3:37:24] I mean, he certainly was made aware of this, turned a blind eye. [3:37:26] I just want to make sure that we understand as a committee the many methods by which he [3:37:30] was informed. [3:37:32] So there were a multitude of legislative [3:37:34] auditor reports, so much so that I had read into the record what Jim Nobles, the last [3:37:40] legislative auditor before Judy Randall, he had been the legislative auditor for 38 years. [3:37:46] And he was so disgusted by the actions of Governor Walls that he wrote a couple comments [3:37:53] in the Star Tribune saying that they literally just needed to do basic financial controls. [3:37:58] And it's behooving to him or confounding to him, I should say, as to why they didn't. [3:38:04] So. [3:38:04] He is a very much a nonpartisan, nonpolitical person, and he was shocked at what he found. [3:38:10] Well, I want to thank all of our witnesses for testimony today. [3:38:13] Mr. Chairman, I yield back. [3:38:14] Gentleman yields back. [3:38:16] And I believe our last questioner is our last wave on from Minnesota. [3:38:21] Representative Stauber. [3:38:22] Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. [3:38:24] And after all the after all the conversation today, you wonder why the Department of Justice [3:38:32] can't get the voter rolls out of Minnesota and the Secretary of Ag. [3:38:35] Can't get the SNAP benefits from Minnesota to make sure there's no fraud. [3:38:39] Mr. Chairman, thank you very much for holding this hearing. [3:38:42] And I also want to thank our witnesses whose years of hard work in Minnesota are exposing [3:38:48] these revelations are finally garnering the national attention that they deserve. [3:38:53] And finally, I want to thank the numerous whistleblowers who are exposing Tim Walls [3:38:57] as fail failures as governor. [3:38:59] As we have heard today, these brave men and women are risking their careers to reveal [3:39:03] the truth, while Tim Walls is actively attempting to. [3:39:06] Threaten and suppress them. [3:39:07] I'm here to say it won't work, and we stand with the whistleblowers. [3:39:11] I'm going to shift gears and ask you about Minnesota's new paid [3:39:16] family leave program that the governor has been touting during this fraud scandal. [3:39:21] Representative Rarick, under the paid family leave program in Minnesota, [3:39:25] who can I take leave or care for? [3:39:28] And is it limited to family or dependents? [3:39:31] Thank you, Congressman Stauber. [3:39:32] No, it is not limited to just family. [3:39:35] One. [3:39:35] One would think that it was, but there is something that the Democrats built into the [3:39:40] law that said if I set up an expectation of care with no documentation, by the way, no [3:39:45] attestation, absolutely no documentation, then that is good enough in Minnesota. [3:39:51] So I could take care of somebody that's just a friend of mine. [3:39:56] Congressman, absolutely. [3:40:00] So it doesn't matter if they're related. [3:40:05] If I've had a past relationship or closer, I can just go and ask my. [3:40:11] Tell my employer I'm leaving for 12 weeks or eight weeks and get 90 percent of my pay [3:40:17] and take care of that person, right? [3:40:19] You can. [3:40:20] You could do that. [3:40:21] Yes. [3:40:21] And so it's a sliding scale. [3:40:22] It's not all of the people will get 90 percent, but the vast majority, I believe, [3:40:27] depending on your salary, would get 90 percent. [3:40:30] And yes, you could go take care of anybody because there is no documentation. [3:40:33] What kind of proof of care would I have to provide to the state to demonstrate that I [3:40:37] am actually taking care of you during my paid family leave? [3:40:41] Yeah. [3:40:41] There's absolutely. [3:40:42] No documentation. [3:40:43] So you have to provide and prove absolutely nothing. [3:40:46] So if I don't show up and take care of who I say I'm taking care of, nothing's going [3:40:50] to happen to me. [3:40:51] That's correct. [3:40:52] You could go to Puerto Rico. [3:40:53] You could go to Istanbul. [3:40:56] It doesn't matter where you go or what you do. [3:40:58] There's no requirement to document. [3:41:00] So I can say that I'm just caring for anyone and the state of Minnesota would require my [3:41:06] boss to give me a 12 week vacation without any proof. [3:41:11] That is exactly how the Democrats. [3:41:12] The Democrats wrote that law. [3:41:13] That's correct. [3:41:14] Is a licensed American doctor required to certify that this person needs my immediate [3:41:20] and uninterrupted care? [3:41:23] So the people, the medical professionals is a very, very broad category. [3:41:28] And no, they do not have to be an American mid-wave doctor, chiropractor, orthopedic [3:41:33] surgeon, none of those things. [3:41:34] It can be in any country. [3:41:35] Does the state require the person I'm claiming to care for to be present in Minnesota or [3:41:40] even in the United States of America? [3:41:42] No, Congressman. [3:41:42] That person could be anywhere. [3:41:44] Somalia? [3:41:46] Absolutely. [3:41:47] So you're telling me I can get a foreign doctor without an American license to just [3:41:53] check a box and I get a state mandated paid vacation to Somalia or any other country. [3:42:00] Is that correct? [3:42:01] That is how the law was written by Democrats in Minnesota. [3:42:03] Yes. [3:42:04] This is incredibly concerning. [3:42:07] With what little time I have left, I want to open this up to the entire panel. [3:42:13] Is there anything else you would like to address regarding the paid? [3:42:16] Family leave program? [3:42:18] And I'll start with Representative Robbins. [3:42:20] Thank you. [3:42:21] We always talk about how important it is to stop fraud on the front end. [3:42:25] So our committee held a hearing on this paid family leave law that took effect January 1st [3:42:30] back in November. [3:42:31] And we grilled the Department of Employment and Economic Development, trying to get them [3:42:36] to shore up some of these definitions, trying to put some guardrails on this program. [3:42:40] And they just assured us over and over. [3:42:42] They've got it covered. [3:42:42] There won't be any fraud. [3:42:43] Don't worry about it. [3:42:44] But I've already had whistleblower reports. [3:42:46] Since the program started January 1st of fraud. [3:42:49] So we're going to have to get a handle on this. [3:42:52] And I think it's the next fraud frontier in Minnesota. [3:42:57] Representative Hudson, anything you'd like to add on the paid family leave program in Minnesota? [3:43:02] Just to put the points that Representative Rarick put as concisely as possible. [3:43:06] It is it is humorous, but true that you could quite literally have a witch doctor [3:43:12] approve your vacation to Somalia. [3:43:15] That's how loose the rules are written. [3:43:18] I listen. [3:43:20] I'm proud to be from Minnesota. [3:43:22] I was born, raised and living in Minnesota, raising my family there. [3:43:27] This is going to stop. [3:43:29] And you folks are at the front of it. [3:43:31] Minnesotans have had enough. [3:43:33] We're hardworking people. [3:43:34] We will not allow our tax scholars to go to fraud. [3:43:37] And I commend the three of you and other folks back in Minnesota that want to stop this. [3:43:42] And Mr. Chair, yield back. [3:43:44] Gentlemen, yield back. [3:43:45] Mr. Chair, I seek recognition to make a motion for a subpoena. [3:43:51] State your state your motion. [3:43:53] I would like to make a motion to subpoena. [3:43:55] The Department of Homeland Security for all documents and footage related to the murder [3:43:59] of a woman by ice that took place in Minneapolis, Minnesota today. [3:44:03] A motion has been made. [3:44:04] The committee will hold this motion in advance till the end of today's hearing. [3:44:09] And we will prepare to close now. [3:44:11] That concludes all of our questions. [3:44:15] In closing, I want to again thank our witnesses for being here today. [3:44:20] Welcome to the House Oversight Committee. [3:44:22] This was a pretty cordial committee hearing for us. [3:44:25] So we and very important. [3:44:28] Before we adjourn, I want to yield to Ranking Member Garcia for his closing remarks, [3:44:34] and then I will give my closing remarks. [3:44:37] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [3:44:38] Just before we close, I just also want to mention the news of this horrific killing [3:44:43] in Minneapolis, Minnesota. [3:44:45] We're talking about Minnesota right now. [3:44:46] This was a killing by an ICE agent. [3:44:49] There are videos that are now online. [3:44:51] There's testimony that's being brought to light. [3:44:55] It's horrific. [3:44:56] I encourage folks to watch those videos and see what's happened for themselves. [3:45:00] And I'm hopeful that this committee investigates this incident and that we have full accountability. [3:45:04] So I want to thank Representative Presley for her motion. [3:45:09] Now, we've heard a lot today, and particularly a lot of bigoted smears against an entire [3:45:14] community. [3:45:16] Now, some Republican members of this committee said or implied that somehow all Somalis are [3:45:20] now suspected fraudsters or terrorists. [3:45:23] Now, Somali Americans are overwhelmingly U.S. citizens with the same rights as any member [3:45:28] of this committee and the rest. [3:45:31] The vast majority of them are just hardworking folks who are trying to take care of their [3:45:36] families and playing by the rules. [3:45:38] We should be clear that if we want to investigate fraud, we should start by investigating 1600 [3:45:44] Pennsylvania. [3:45:45] We all know that fraud is a betrayal of the public's trust, and Democrats agree that we [3:45:49] must be rigorous in conducting oversight wherever it exists. [3:45:53] But conducting rigorous oversight does not somehow exclude the president or the administration [3:46:00] or the DOJ and what's happening there. [3:46:02] We know the rapid crimes that are happening right now all across other agencies. [3:46:06] We know that holding fraudsters accountable does not mean granting them full and unconditional [3:46:10] presidential pardons because they are wealthy supporters of the president. [3:46:15] President Trump last year gave out 25 get-out-of-jail-free cards from fraudsters alone, 25. [3:46:23] He pardoned them from paying back more than $1 billion they owe to their victims. [3:46:28] This is wrong, and it's un-American. [3:46:31] We have to make sure that victims of fraud are not forced to suffer. [3:46:35] And we also know that cutting off child care and family support for thousands of innocent [3:46:40] families is not the way to protect victims. [3:46:42] In fact, it punishes victims. [3:46:45] These attacks are harming parents, children, and child care providers as we speak. [3:46:50] Many child care providers, not just in Minnesota but across the country, are receiving death [3:46:53] threats. [3:46:55] Child care centers have been vandalized, and the children's information has been stolen [3:46:59] in some cases. [3:47:00] Child care providers in states across the country have reported that they will have [3:47:03] to close if they lose federal funding. [3:47:07] Parents are saying they will have to quit their jobs because they will no longer be [3:47:10] able to have child care for their families and while they are at work. [3:47:15] These cuts will make it harder for families to put food on the table [3:47:19] as grocery costs continue to increase. [3:47:21] We should be protecting those families and children who are being hurt by all of this. [3:47:26] Let's go after the big fraud in our government, [3:47:29] and that includes the fraud and corruption at the White House. [3:47:31] And with that, I yield back. [3:47:33] THE RECORD, MEMBER YELLEN. [3:47:34] MEMBER YELLEN. [3:47:36] MEMBER YELLEN YELDS BACK, AND I WILL CONCLUDE BY [3:47:38] SAYING TODAY WE HAVE HEARD ABOUT THE SHOCKING, RAMPANT, AND LONG-ONGOING FRAUD IN MINNESOTA'S [3:47:44] SOCIAL SERVICE PROGRAMS. [3:47:46] THIS FRAUD HAS SHOCKED AND OUTRAGED THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, AND RIGHTFULLY SO. [3:47:50] THE SCALE OF THIS FRAUD IS NOT JUST SOMETHING WE'VE SEEN BEFORE, AND I'M PRETTY CONFIDENT [3:47:55] THIS IS JUST THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG. [3:47:57] THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HAS TAKEN A WHOLE-OF-GOVERNMENT APPROACH TO ROOTING OUT FRAUD. [3:48:01] THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HAS ALREADY UNCOVERED AT LEAST $9 BILLION IN FRAUD. [3:48:06] THESE CRIMINALS HAVE STOLEN TAXPAYER DOLLARS FROM ALL AMERICANS TO FUND LAVISH CARS, HOMES, [3:48:13] AND VACATIONS HERE IN THE U.S. AND ABROAD. [3:48:16] SOME OF THIS STOLEN MONEY IS EVEN ALLEGEDLY GOING OVERSEAS TO SUPPORT TERRORISTS. [3:48:21] OUR WITNESSES, THE CHAIRWOMAN AND TWO MEMBERS OF THE MINNESOTA HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES FRAUD [3:48:26] PREVENTION AND STATE AGENCY OVERSIGHT POLICY COMMITTEE HAVE BEEN SOUNDING THE ALARM ON THIS [3:48:31] FRAUD. [3:48:32] FOR YEARS, DEMOCRATS HAVE ATTEMPTED TO DISTRACT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE FROM THIS WIDESPREAD FRAUD [3:48:38] AND ACCUSE INVESTIGATORS OF RACISM. [3:48:41] THIS SHOULD NOT BE A PARTISAN ISSUE, BUT THEY CLEARLY DO NOT TAKE THIS ISSUE SERIOUSLY. [3:48:48] EITHER THEY DON'T TAKE FRAUD SERIOUSLY OR THEY JUST DON'T CARE. [3:48:53] IT'S ONE OR THE OTHER. [3:48:54] THE MOST VULNERABLE ARE SUFFERING AS A RESULT. [3:48:58] THESE PROGRAMS ARE MEANT TO FEED NEEDY KIDS, PROVIDE SERVICES TO AUTISTIC CHILDREN, HOUSE [3:49:04] LOW-INCOME AND DISABLED AMERICANS, AND PROVIDE HEALTH CARE TO [3:49:07] VULNERABLE MEDICAID RECIPIENTS. [3:49:10] THE WALTZ ADMINISTRATION HAS KEPT THIS MONEY FLOWING FOR YEARS, OFTENTIMES BEHIND CLOSED [3:49:14] DOORS. [3:49:15] WHEN WHISTLEBLOWERS CAME FORWARD ABOUT THIS FRAUD, THE WALTZ ADMINISTRATION RETALIATED [3:49:21] AGAINST EMPLOYEES WHO WARNED AND ALERTED THE ADMINISTRATION TO FRAUD OCCURRING WITHIN THESE [3:49:25] SOCIAL PROGRAMS. [3:49:27] THERE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE CHECKS AND BALANCES IN OUR SYSTEM TO PREVENT THIS, BOTH ON THE [3:49:33] FEDERAL AND STATE LEVELS. [3:49:36] EVERY AGENCY THAT LOST HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS AND EVEN [3:49:39] BILLIONS OF DOLLARS HAS WELL-PAID STAFF THAT ARE SUPPOSED TO PREVENT THIS. [3:49:45] THAT'S THEIR JOB. [3:49:48] THEY'RE INSPECTORS GENERAL. [3:49:50] THAT'S THEIR JOB. [3:49:51] THEY HAVE HUGE STAFF. [3:49:52] WE HAVE JURISDICTION OVER THE I.G.'S. [3:49:55] MANY HAVE FAILED. [3:49:57] AND THEY NEED TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE. [3:50:01] NOW, I WANT TO CLOSE BY SAYING WE'VE HAD FOUR MINNESOTA REPUBLICANS TO WAVE ON THIS COMMITTEE. [3:50:08] IF THERE WAS A COMMITTEE HEARING ABOUT FRAUD IN KENTUCKY AND I WASN'T ON THE COMMITTEE, [3:50:11] I WOULD WANT TO WAVE ON THE COMMITTEE. [3:50:14] BUT NOT A SINGLE DEMOCRAT [3:50:15] REQUESTED [3:50:16] TO WAVE ON THE COMMITTEE FROM THE STATE OF MINNESOTA. [3:50:18] AND THERE IS ONE MEMBER OF THE MINNESOTA DELEGATION, REPRESENTATIVE OMAR, WHO, [3:50:24] COINCIDENTALLY, IS OF SOMALI DESCENT, DID NOT REQUEST TO BE IN THIS HEARING. [3:50:30] I WILL PUBLICLY INVITE HER TO COME TO THE NEXT HEARING. [3:50:34] AND SHE DOESN'T HAVE TO. [3:50:35] BUT SHE CAN REQUEST TO BE WAVED ON. [3:50:38] AND I WILL GLADLY GRANT THAT REQUEST. [3:50:43] I ASK UNANIMOUS CONSENT TO ENTER INTO THE RECORD AN APPLICATION [3:50:50] UNSEALED BY THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF MINNESOTA ON DECEMBER 18, [3:50:55] 2025, FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT TO EXECUTE A SEARCH WARRANT ON ULTIMATE HOME HEALTH SERVICES, [3:51:01] LLC, FOR DEFRAUDING MINNESOTA'S INDEPENDENT COMMUNITY SUPPORTS MEDICAID PROGRAM. [3:51:07] THIS FRAUDULENT PROVIDER'S NEGLIGENCE RESULTED IN THE DEATH OF A MAN WHO SUFFERED FROM SEVERE [3:51:11] MENTAL HEALTH FITNESS. [3:51:13] I REFERENCE THIS TRAGEDY IN MY OPENING STATEMENT. [3:51:16] WE'RE NOT GOING TO ‑‑ THIS ISN'T IT. [3:51:18] THIS IS JUST THE BEGINNING. [3:51:20] WE WANT TO AGAIN THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE. [3:51:21] WE'RE GOING TO WORK WITH YOU TO SEE THAT THESE FEDERAL FUNDS GO TO PEOPLE IN MINNESOTA WHO [3:51:30] THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO GO TO. [3:51:32] I SUPPORT PRESIDENT TRUMP PUTTING A HALT ON ALL FEDERAL FUNDING TO THESE GOVERNMENT SOCIAL [3:51:38] PROGRAMS IN MINNESOTA UNTIL WE GET A HANDLE ON WHERE THIS IS GOING. [3:51:43] AND THANK YOU ALL FOR DOING THAT. [3:51:45] WE WILL WORK WITH YOU AND DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO HOLD PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE AND TO STOP [3:51:50] THE FRAUD AND GET THE BACKS OF THE AMERICAN TAXPAYERS. [3:51:52] THANK YOU. [3:51:53] PURSUANT TO THE PREVIOUS ORDER, THE CHAIR DECLARES THE COMMITTEE IN RECESS SUBJECT TO [3:52:00] THE CALL OF THE CHAIR. [3:52:00] WE PLAN TO RECONVENE AT 4 P.M. [3:52:03] THE COMMITTEE NOW STANDS IN RECESS AND THE WITNESSES MAY BE EXCUSED. [3:52:08] THANK YOU ALL. [3:53:29] . [3:53:53] NO QUESTION. [3:54:10] THANK YOU. [3:54:12] THANK YOU. [3:54:25] . [3:54:25] . [3:54:33] . [3:54:33] . [3:54:34] . [3:54:34] . [3:54:34] . [3:54:34] Thank you. [3:55:28] Thank you.