About this transcript: This is a full AI-generated transcript of FULL COURT TESTIMONY: Patrick Clancy Gives Emotional Testimony in MA v. Lindsay Clancy Trial — AB1E from DWS News and DRM News, published August 13, 2026. The transcript contains 12,799 words with timestamps and was generated using Whisper AI.
"Good morning, sir. I'm going to ask you to speak into that microphone. You can be seated if you'd like to be more comfortable. Okay? All right, come up, please. Good morning. Can you please state and spell your name for the record? Yeah, my name's Patrick Clancy. It's P-A-T-R-I-C-K-C-L-A-N-C-Y. And"
[0:14] Good morning, sir.
[0:16] I'm going to ask you to speak into that microphone.
[0:19] You can be seated if you'd like to be more comfortable.
[0:22] Okay?
[0:24] All right, come up, please.
[0:25] Good morning.
[0:27] Can you please state and spell your name for the record?
[0:30] Yeah, my name's Patrick Clancy.
[0:31] It's P-A-T-R-I-C-K-C-L-A-N-C-Y.
[0:35] And what is your date of birth?
[0:37] June 15, 1988.
[0:39] What city do you live in now?
[0:41] New York.
[0:42] And what do you do for a living?
[0:44] I work in tech.
[0:45] How long have you worked in tech?
[0:47] Um, 14 years.
[0:53] And were you previously married to a person named Lindsay Clancy?
[0:57] Yes.
[0:58] And you're divorced now, is that correct?
[0:59] Correct.
[1:00] Do you see that person in the courtroom today?
[1:02] Yes.
[1:02] Could you point to them and describe something they're wearing?
[1:05] She's wearing a pink shirt.
[1:09] Record will reflect the identification of the defendant.
[1:11] Thank you.
[1:13] Where did you meet the defendant?
[1:16] In South Boston.
[1:18] And when was that?
[1:19] I think it was May 2013.
[1:25] And how did you meet her?
[1:25] Through my cousin.
[1:29] And, uh, would it be accurate to state that your cousin had been college roommates of the
[1:33] defendant?
[1:34] Yes.
[1:35] And at some point in time, did you start dating?
[1:40] Yes.
[1:40] And around what time was that?
[1:43] July 2013.
[1:46] Did you eventually move in together?
[1:48] Yes.
[1:49] Do you remember when that was?
[1:51] September 2015.
[1:53] And where did you live?
[1:55] In Quincy.
[1:58] How long did you live in Quincy?
[2:01] One year.
[2:02] And where did you go after that?
[2:03] We bought a house in Weymouth.
[2:05] And how long did you live in Weymouth?
[2:09] Two years.
[2:10] Did you eventually get married?
[2:12] Yes.
[2:12] And when was that?
[2:15] Uh, December 2016.
[2:17] And, um, was that while you were living in Weymouth?
[2:20] Yes.
[2:23] Did you have your first child when you were living in Weymouth?
[2:26] Yes.
[2:26] And what was her name?
[2:27] Cora.
[2:28] And what was her date of birth?
[2:31] December 24th, 2017.
[2:39] Prior to getting married, did the defendant ever tell you she had taken psychiatric medication
[2:44] while in nursing school?
[2:46] Not that I recall.
[2:50] After having Cora, did the three of you move somewhere else?
[2:55] Yeah, we moved to Duxbury.
[2:57] And what was your address in Duxbury?
[2:59] 47 Summer Street.
[3:02] And do you recall when you moved there?
[3:04] I believe it was July 2018.
[3:07] And where were you working at that time?
[3:11] I was working for a startup called Automation Anywhere.
[3:16] At some point in time, did you start working for Microsoft?
[3:19] Yes.
[3:20] And when was that?
[3:23] May 2020.
[3:25] And when you worked for Microsoft, did you go to an office or did you work from home?
[3:29] I worked from home.
[3:31] And was that from 2020 onward that you worked from home?
[3:36] No, I started working from home in 2018.
[3:38] 2018.
[3:39] Okay.
[3:39] So from 2018 up until, let's say, 2023, you were working from home.
[3:45] Is that correct?
[3:46] Yes.
[3:50] And did you have an office in your home, which you worked out of?
[3:53] Eventually, yeah.
[3:55] And where was that located?
[3:56] In the basement.
[3:58] And was that a finished basement?
[3:59] Yes.
[4:00] Going back to after Cora was born, do you recall the defendant having any physical issues after the birth?
[4:14] Yeah.
[4:15] And what were those?
[4:18] I think there was a lot of tearing and she bled a lot.
[4:23] Did it take her a while to recover physically?
[4:26] I would say so, yeah.
[4:27] Did she have maternity leave at that time?
[4:32] Yes.
[4:34] Where was she working?
[4:37] Mass General Hospital.
[4:38] And what was she doing there?
[4:40] She's a labor and delivery nurse.
[4:42] At that point in time when she had Cora in 2017, how long had she been a nurse?
[4:47] By three years, maybe.
[4:54] And do you recall how long her maternity leave was with Cora?
[5:01] That was the shortest of the three.
[5:03] I want to say it was 10 or 11 weeks.
[5:07] And did you have paternity leave at that time?
[5:11] Yeah, I had two weeks.
[5:12] When you went back after the two weeks, back to work in the home, were there any issues that you noticed the defendant having?
[5:25] Yeah, I'm sorry.
[5:28] I just want to correct an earlier statement.
[5:29] I was working for Pegasystems when Cora was born.
[5:33] Okay.
[5:33] And then eventually you worked for Microsoft?
[5:35] Yeah.
[5:36] Okay.
[5:36] And so after the two weeks of your paternity leave, the defendant was still on maternity leave, correct?
[5:43] Yes.
[5:43] And did she have to take any psychiatric medications at that time?
[5:50] Not that I know of.
[5:52] She had a lot of anxiety.
[5:53] Okay.
[5:54] So you're saying that she had some anxiety at that time.
[5:57] Is that correct?
[5:58] Yeah.
[5:58] How did that manifest or how did you know that?
[6:01] She just really struggled with the date of going back to work.
[6:06] So immediately after having Cora, as she healed physically, what was her mood like when you're both on leave?
[6:17] It was great.
[6:17] It was good.
[6:18] Good.
[6:19] Okay.
[6:19] I mean, relatively, yeah.
[6:20] And so did the anxiety start as it became closer in time to when she had to go back to work?
[6:26] Yes.
[6:27] How many shifts was she working at that time?
[6:32] Before Cora was born, she was working at least 40 hours, maybe more.
[6:40] After she went back to work, it was, I think, initially just one.
[6:45] One shift?
[6:46] Yeah.
[6:46] And was that a 12-hour shift?
[6:49] It was per diem.
[6:50] Per diem.
[6:51] And then she eventually did two shifts.
[6:53] Okay.
[6:53] I think it was 20 weeks.
[6:55] After 20 weeks, she moved to two shifts?
[6:59] I'm sorry.
[7:00] It was 20 hours a week.
[7:02] 20 hours a week.
[7:02] Okay.
[7:03] And so from the time she worked her way back up to 20 hours a week at work until she had
[7:11] your next child, did it remain that 20 hours per week that she worked?
[7:15] Pretty much, yeah.
[7:15] And did you have any assistance in the home during that time after she went back to work,
[7:24] a nanny or a babysitter?
[7:25] Yeah, we had babysitters.
[7:26] We had a babysitter who came probably 12 hours a week.
[7:33] And did that typically happen after your wife had a shift that the nanny or the babysitter
[7:39] would be there?
[7:41] Yeah, so she could sleep.
[7:42] Did the defendant work overnights?
[7:44] Yeah.
[7:44] And how long did you have that nanny or babysitter for?
[7:53] Several years.
[7:55] Do you remember her name?
[7:57] We called her Miss Jen.
[7:58] Miss Jen, do you remember her last name?
[8:01] Shanahan.
[8:03] And then you had a second child, is that correct?
[8:06] Yes.
[8:07] And what was their name?
[8:08] Dawson.
[8:09] And what was Dawson's date of birth?
[8:11] September 30th, 2019.
[8:14] And was Miss Jen still helping out in the home at that time?
[8:19] Yeah.
[8:20] And what was Dawson's delivery like?
[8:25] Pretty traumatic.
[8:26] How so?
[8:27] He was in, I think, a breech position.
[8:33] So he came out in a, I guess, I don't know much about it, but not an ideal way.
[8:39] And it caused just significant bruising and tearing.
[8:45] So, again, did the defendant with this second pregnancy have some pain and difficulty physically
[8:51] healing from the birth?
[8:53] Yeah, much more so than Cora.
[8:56] And was she on maternity leave at that time?
[8:59] Yes.
[9:00] How many weeks leave did she have at that time?
[9:03] I don't recall, but I think it was more than the, you know, traditional 12.
[9:09] I want to say it was 13 or 14, maybe more.
[9:11] Page 13, if I may approach.
[9:36] You don't have to keep telling me the pages.
[9:40] That's okay.
[9:40] I could have you look at page 13 and just read to yourselves on 6th and then just look
[9:53] up when you're finished.
[10:03] Does that refresh your memory as to how much maternity leave the defendant had after Dawson's
[10:08] birth?
[10:09] Yeah.
[10:09] And what was it?
[10:10] 18.
[10:11] 18 weeks?
[10:12] Mm-hmm.
[10:13] Is that correct?
[10:14] I believe so.
[10:15] Okay.
[10:15] And, you know, after dealing with the physical pain of birth and starting to heal, how was
[10:25] her demeanor and experience during that maternity leave?
[10:29] Um, I think it was fine at first.
[10:34] Um, it was always when she had to go back to work.
[10:38] That's when she struggled.
[10:39] So.
[10:39] Okay.
[10:40] So that was a pattern that you saw after the baby?
[10:42] Yeah.
[10:43] Maternity leave was good and then she'd struggle going back to work?
[10:47] She just had a really hard time being separated from them.
[10:53] What was the plan for how many shifts she would work or how many hours she would work
[10:57] after Dawson was born?
[11:00] I believe it was the same thing.
[11:05] And in terms of, um, Ms. Shanahan, the babysitter, um, you had mentioned before that she was there
[11:13] about 12 hours a week.
[11:14] Did that stay consistent after Dawson's birth or was it more or less?
[11:19] Probably consistent.
[11:26] After Dawson's birth, are you, did the defendant ever tell you whether she was on any psychiatric
[11:31] medication after Dawson's birth?
[11:33] No.
[11:35] Did she seek treatment, um, or tell you she sought treatment after Dawson's birth?
[11:40] Yeah.
[11:41] She, um, got a therapist for a short period of time, but it didn't, didn't last very long.
[11:46] Did she tell you that at the time or later?
[11:48] At the time.
[11:49] Okay.
[11:50] And did she have any psychiatric hospitalizations or commitments at that time?
[11:55] No.
[11:56] What about after Cora's birth, any psychiatric hospitalizations or treatments?
[12:00] No.
[12:00] Was there a time after Dawson's birth where, um, she wanted to declutter your garage?
[12:15] Um, maybe at some point.
[12:17] Okay.
[12:18] And did you assist her with that?
[12:20] Yeah.
[12:20] Okay.
[12:21] And, um, how was that done?
[12:24] Uh, we had a, a lot of stuff to throw away.
[12:28] And, uh, I think we sold some stuff on Facebook Marketplace.
[12:31] We just had a lot of stuff.
[12:32] So did the two of you go through the items in the garage and order, organize it into what you would keep, what you would throw away, and what you would sell?
[12:40] Yes.
[12:41] And so it was very organized?
[12:44] I would say so, yeah.
[12:45] And you finished the project, is that correct?
[12:52] It was always ongoing.
[12:58] Now, um, eventually you had your third child, correct?
[13:01] Yeah.
[13:01] And what was, what was their name?
[13:03] Callan.
[13:03] And what was his date of birth?
[13:06] May 26th, um, 2022.
[13:10] Can you describe, um, that delivery for us?
[13:15] Uh, it was great from what I could tell.
[13:19] It was relatively quick.
[13:21] It was during the day.
[13:23] Um, we were both smiling after, and, um, I don't think there was as much physical trauma.
[13:31] Nothing compared to what happened with Cora or Dawson.
[13:34] Is that correct?
[13:35] Correct.
[13:35] Um, did, did, um, the defendant have maternity leave after Callan's birth?
[13:43] Yeah.
[13:44] And how long was that leave?
[13:46] She never went back.
[13:48] How long was it planned for initially?
[13:50] I want to say 18 weeks.
[13:54] And were you on paternity leave as well?
[13:56] Yes.
[13:57] And how long was your paternity leave?
[13:59] 12 weeks.
[14:00] So with Callan being born on May 26th, 2022, um, the two of you were home, um, with the children that summer on leave.
[14:10] Is that correct?
[14:11] Yeah.
[14:11] What was family life, family life like during that time period, those summer months?
[14:23] It was great.
[14:24] We had a lot of time off.
[14:26] Um, I was able to spend a lot of time with, uh, I spent a lot of time with Cora and Dawson.
[14:32] So I would, I would take them around, you know, the playgrounds and birthday parties and stuff like that.
[14:38] And what would Lindsay be doing while you were, um, with Cora and Dawson?
[14:43] Sometimes she'd come with us with Callan, but oftentimes we did kind of like a divide and conquer.
[14:47] So she'd be home with Callan and I'd be out with the older kids.
[14:51] And what types of family activities did, um, did you all do during those summer months?
[14:57] Um, we went on a couple of vacations.
[14:59] Um, we went to the beach, um, we went out on our boat and, um, went to friends' houses.
[15:07] During those, those months, um, when you're going to the beach and out on the boat and, and visiting with friends, um, were there any signs of anxiety in the defendant during those months?
[15:19] Um, I would say starting in September, yes, but in the previous months, uh, not so much.
[15:28] When had she been scheduled to go back to work?
[15:31] I don't remember the exact date, but I think it was October.
[15:34] So again, it was that pattern of as it became closer in time to go back to work, she started to struggle?
[15:40] Yeah.
[15:49] During the times when, um, she would get anxious, when it was time to go back to work and she would start being anxious,
[15:57] did you ever have any difficulty understanding her when she spoke?
[16:01] No.
[16:02] And, um, did, did she ever exhibit any behavior, um, that made you concerned enough to call a doctor or want to, um, commit her, commit her?
[16:14] No.
[16:17] When she was, um, showing this anxiety, what, what were you seeing in her behavior?
[16:24] Um, just a lot of stress.
[16:25] Um, you know, it was, there were days where she had all three kids and, you know, there was different nap schedules and different needs.
[16:34] So it was just really stressful.
[16:37] Okay.
[16:38] Um, and you're still, um, working in the, the basement office at this point after Callum's born, correct?
[16:48] I went back to work late August.
[16:50] Okay.
[16:51] And when you work downstairs, um, how often would you come upstairs during the day?
[16:57] All the time for lunch, um, or just to say hi.
[17:01] Um, were there times when, um, Lindsay would ask you to hold the baby in the office while she was doing something?
[17:10] So, yeah.
[17:11] Okay.
[17:12] And, um, were there times when, um, you would watch one, one or more of the children while she took another to a doctor's appointment or to an errand or something like that?
[17:22] Yeah.
[17:22] If it, if it worked out with a schedule, yeah.
[17:25] Okay.
[17:30] What was the plan in terms of how many shifts or hours she was going to work after Callum?
[17:38] Um, I believe the plan was two shifts per week, but, um, there was a lot of flexibility.
[17:45] She could have done really anything.
[17:48] Do you recall, um, saying previously that, that, that you were going to start off with one shift and hopefully move to two?
[17:54] I could imagine, yeah.
[17:56] Okay.
[17:57] And, um, you said there was some options, correct?
[18:00] What, what were those options if that didn't work out?
[18:03] Um, well, I always put money aside in basically our own maternity account just so that if, um, she needed more flexibility, we, we plan for that.
[18:14] So, so if she needed more time off, more than what her work would provide for her, you were financially secure enough to afford that at that time?
[18:29] During this time, um, in the fall of 2022, were Cora and Dawson attending preschool?
[18:37] Yes.
[18:38] And where was that?
[18:39] Learning Sprouts.
[18:40] And where is Learning Sprouts located?
[18:43] Duxbury.
[18:44] How often were they attending Learning Sprouts?
[18:51] Uh, full days, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and a half day on Thursday.
[18:55] And what was a full day?
[18:56] What hours?
[18:58] I think it was 9 to 4.
[18:59] 9 a.m. to 4 p.m.?
[19:01] I think so, yeah.
[19:01] And what was a half day?
[19:03] Like 9 to 12.30.
[19:06] I think they might have had some days where they started early.
[19:09] I, I can't remember.
[19:11] But basically all day, um, you know, working hours all day, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and then the mornings on Thursday, is that right?
[19:19] Right.
[19:19] And who would do, um, drop-offs for school?
[19:27] We both would.
[19:29] And what about pickups?
[19:30] Both of us.
[19:32] Together or take turns?
[19:34] Usually we would take turns.
[19:38] Now at some point in time, um, after Callan was born, did you hire a nanny?
[19:44] Yes.
[19:44] And when was that?
[19:46] Um, I think it was in August or September.
[19:53] Of 2022?
[19:55] Yeah.
[19:56] And, um, who was that nanny?
[19:59] Um, Laney?
[20:01] I don't remember her last name.
[20:03] Does Elaine Rossi sound familiar?
[20:05] Yeah.
[20:06] And, um, do you recall how many days per week Elaine was going to work when you hired her?
[20:16] I think it was 12 hours.
[20:18] But it wouldn't be 12 hours altogether.
[20:21] It would be spread out over the week.
[20:22] Is that right?
[20:23] Correct.
[20:26] And, um, who was she hired to take care of?
[20:31] Everyone.
[20:31] Um, but mainly it was going to be Callan.
[20:35] Because Cora and Dawson would be at school?
[20:38] For the most part, yeah.
[20:41] And what was the plan for when Elaine would work?
[20:45] It was that same type of, um, after Lindsay worked shifts or something different?
[20:50] Yeah.
[20:52] The goal was after Lindsay would work.
[20:55] I mean, she never went back to work.
[20:56] But, um, I think we wanted to get her just, um, like oriented with, with our house and the kids.
[21:06] So, we had her start before and, and then, uh, she was amazing.
[21:12] She was an amazing caregiver.
[21:15] But eventually we, um, decided to let her go because, um, Lindsay was home anyways.
[21:22] So.
[21:22] So when you initially hired her in August or September, um, you said Lindsay was going back to work in October.
[21:29] So, is that what you're talking about, that give her that month or so, give Elaine that month or so to get situated and acclimated to the house?
[21:36] Yeah.
[21:37] Okay.
[21:37] Have the kids get used to her.
[21:38] Is that right?
[21:39] Yep.
[21:41] Did she also, Elaine, did she also do some cleaning, laundry, and food prep?
[21:46] Yeah.
[21:47] Yeah.
[21:47] She was amazing.
[21:51] Now, during this time, um, frame, again, in the end of summer, fall period of 2022, what types of activities were Cora and Dawson doing?
[22:00] Um, gymnastics, um, all right, are you talking about organized activities or just in general?
[22:13] Organized.
[22:15] I only remember gymnastics.
[22:17] Did they both do the gymnastics?
[22:18] Yeah.
[22:18] And then were they also participating, maybe not in organized situations, but in swimming, soccer, skiing, things like that?
[22:25] Yeah, they were doing swimming, um, and yeah, Cora and Dawson did skiing.
[22:30] Uh, yeah, Cora started doing soccer.
[22:32] She didn't really like it, but did a little bit.
[22:34] And who took them skiing?
[22:36] I did.
[22:36] And as, in terms of the swimming, where would you do that?
[22:41] Um, we did it at, uh, Goldfish in Rockland, I think.
[22:48] And then, um, Lindsay took them somewhere in, I think, Plymouth.
[22:52] I don't, I don't remember where it was.
[22:53] So you would each take them swimming at various times?
[22:57] Yeah.
[22:58] Um, did you also do some swimming at the, uh, Kingsbury Club?
[23:02] Yes.
[23:02] And what is the Kingsbury Club?
[23:04] It's like a gym with a pool.
[23:06] And, um, they had childcare, so sometimes they would hang out in the kids' room and go work out.
[23:13] And is that in Duxbury?
[23:16] Uh, it's on the Kingston-Duxbury line.
[23:18] I'm not, I'm not entirely sure, but yeah.
[23:21] Okay.
[23:21] And so you could drop the kids off at the, the daycare portion and go work out or swim or something like that?
[23:27] Yeah, or we could go with them and go swimming.
[23:29] Okay.
[23:32] Did Lindsay work out?
[23:34] Yes.
[23:34] She was very health conscious?
[23:36] I think so.
[23:39] And, uh, were you aware that she had been an athlete in both high school and college?
[23:43] Yes.
[23:45] Do you recall what she did?
[23:47] Competitive cheerleading.
[23:51] Now, when you were together, what type of exercise would she do or did she prefer?
[23:57] Um, she did a lot of running.
[23:59] She did the Peloton and she did, um, there's like some program called Beachbody, I think.
[24:06] Do you recall when she started Beachbody?
[24:10] Um, maybe in the spring of 2022?
[24:13] I'm not sure.
[24:14] So right before having Callan, would that be accurate?
[24:18] Probably, yeah.
[24:28] When you returned to work, and you said that was in August, correct?
[24:34] Yes.
[24:34] What was the defendant's demeanor when you returned to work?
[24:40] Um, increased anxiety and, um, and definitely, you know, stressed out.
[24:49] Do you recall describing her as slightly stressed but in good spirits?
[24:54] Um, yeah.
[24:55] And, and when she was stressed out, when she was showing some anxiety,
[25:00] how, how did that manifest?
[25:04] Um, I don't really know how to describe it.
[25:08] I guess it's just any way you can tell that somebody's stressed out.
[25:11] And, um, I don't know.
[25:16] She would say, you know, I'm not looking forward to going back to work.
[25:19] I remember once she said, it's just so unnatural to be separated from your newborn.
[25:25] You know, stuff like that.
[25:26] So she didn't want to go back to work?
[25:29] Is that what you're saying?
[25:30] I think she did.
[25:32] Um, it was just a really difficult transition for her.
[25:38] And, um, do you recall attending a wedding on September 17th, 2022?
[25:44] Yeah.
[25:45] And where was that wedding?
[25:46] New Hampshire.
[25:48] Was it just you and Lindsay that went or did the whole family go?
[25:51] We brought Callan.
[25:52] And when you were at that wedding, do you recall having a conversation with Lindsay, um, about medication?
[26:01] Yes.
[26:02] What did she say to you?
[26:04] Um, we were walking downtown and she said, I, I think I'm going to start taking Zoloft.
[26:10] And did she tell you why she wanted to start taking Zoloft?
[26:13] She said, I think it's really going to help with my anxiety, um, and with going back to work.
[26:18] And did she tell you how she was going to go about getting Zoloft?
[26:22] Yeah, I, I, um, I asked her, how are you going to get Zoloft?
[26:30] It's a prescription.
[26:31] And she said, you know, usually just ask the doctor and they'll give it to you.
[26:36] And did she tell you, um, that she was going to see a psychiatrist?
[26:41] Yeah, I believe so.
[26:43] And, um, when she, when she did that, did she tell you, um, who she was going to see?
[26:49] No.
[26:50] Did you eventually learn the name of the person who she went to see?
[26:55] Months later, yeah.
[26:56] Okay.
[26:56] And who was that?
[26:58] Uh, Jennifer Tufts.
[26:59] And do you, did Lindsay tell you when she started seeing Dr. Jennifer Tufts?
[27:06] No.
[27:08] Did you learn or strike that?
[27:11] Did Lindsay tell you when she received the medication and when she started it?
[27:17] No.
[27:21] I mean, I should correct that.
[27:23] It's not exactly.
[27:24] Um.
[27:25] Well, let me just ask a question first.
[27:26] Sure.
[27:27] Um, when, did you have a conversation with Lindsay about the medication she was on?
[27:34] Eventually, yeah.
[27:35] But I didn't know the start date.
[27:36] Okay.
[27:37] And so, when did this conversation take place, this eventual conversation?
[27:43] Probably the end of October.
[27:45] And at that point, what did Lindsay tell you about the medication and how she was taking it?
[27:53] Um, I don't remember exactly, but I, I learned that she was taking the Zoloft and, um, I don't remember really too much about it after that.
[28:07] But she was just taking it and, you know, we were seeing how it went.
[28:12] And did you notice any changes in her physically during that time frame that she was on it and you, you weren't aware she was on it?
[28:24] Uh, at the time, no, I don't think I did.
[28:25] And, um, did you notice any changes in her emotionally during that time when she was on it, but you weren't aware she was on it?
[28:36] Um, yeah.
[28:37] Uh, she wasn't really improving.
[28:39] She just kind of seems, um, to be gradually becoming more, more in like a depressed state.
[28:45] And how was that manifesting?
[28:49] What were you noticing?
[28:51] It was just small things.
[28:52] Um, I was planning a trip with Cora to San Francisco and she was nervous about us going.
[29:00] And, um, I remember we went to a Halloween event and, um, just leading up to it, I remember she was, it just kind of seemed like she didn't want to go for some reason.
[29:13] Okay.
[29:13] Um, now do you recall learning that, um, she had actually obtained the prescription the day before she told you she was going to ask for the prescription?
[29:26] I did later learn that, yeah.
[29:28] Okay.
[29:28] So she's telling you at the wedding that she, um, is going to ask to take this medication and going to see a psychiatrist to get on that medication, but she actually already had the prescription.
[29:38] Is that correct?
[29:39] Correct.
[29:40] I don't think she started taking it yet, but she already had it.
[29:42] Okay.
[29:42] And, um, did, did Lindsay tell you how long she took the medication for?
[30:00] Uh, she may have, um, I don't remember the exact time frame.
[30:05] I just remember she took it for a period of time and then her sleep started to suffer.
[30:09] So she stopped taking it.
[30:12] And did she tell you, um, whether or not she, um, spoke to her provider, her doctor about the troubles she was having?
[30:21] I believe so, yeah.
[30:22] And, um, did she tell you, did Lindsay tell you that she was advised to double the dose of the Zoloft?
[30:32] She may have.
[30:33] I, I don't remember.
[30:37] Page 31.
[30:45] Sure.
[30:52] Yeah, apparently she did.
[30:53] Yeah.
[30:56] And so did Lindsay tell you that she was supposed to double the dose?
[31:00] I guess she did, yeah.
[31:01] Did you notice any changes in her sleep during that time when she was on the medication, but you weren't aware she was on it?
[31:24] Um, eventually, yeah.
[31:26] When was that?
[31:27] I don't remember the exact dates.
[31:30] Um, but she just, you know, one night she said, um, do you mind, she's, she started by saying, I'm not mad or anything, but do you mind sleeping in the basement?
[31:41] Um, and letting me just sleep in our room with Callan, and then you can take the monitors down in the basement, and if, if Cora and Dawson get up, you can get up with them.
[31:51] Um, she said, I've, I've just been having a lot of trouble sleeping, and, um, I'm hoping that, like, if there's less in and out, then, uh, there'll be less disruption.
[32:02] Had you noticed prior to her telling you this that she was up a lot or having trouble sleeping, like, physically seeing her awake?
[32:11] No, not that I recall.
[32:13] And did you, in fact, start sleeping in the basement for a period of time?
[32:16] I think I did it for, like, two nights, and then she actually went down in the basement.
[32:20] Okay, so then you went back up to your bedroom to sleep, is that correct?
[32:23] Yeah.
[32:24] And how long did, did Lindsay sleep in the basement for after that?
[32:29] Um, maybe a couple weeks.
[32:31] And so during that time frame, was she telling you that she was still having trouble sleeping?
[32:35] Yes.
[32:37] But you weren't actually down there watching her sleep, you're getting this information from her, correct?
[32:42] Correct.
[32:42] Were you aware, um, that out of the Zoloft prescription she was given, she only took seven pills?
[32:57] No.
[32:58] After you had the conversation with Lindsay where she said she was going to double the dose of Zoloft,
[33:10] did you notice any difference in her demeanor or behavior?
[33:15] I would say yes.
[33:16] Um, I don't know if I connected it with the doubling of her Zoloft, but, um, over that period of time,
[33:24] she always, she just kept getting worse and worse.
[33:27] And what period of time was that?
[33:28] What month are we in?
[33:30] Mid-October to the end of December.
[33:33] Okay.
[33:33] So she got the prescription in September, started taking it in October, took seven pills,
[33:41] but was having difficulty in December.
[33:43] Is that what you're saying?
[33:45] Yes.
[33:45] From this medication?
[33:46] Yeah.
[33:47] Well, I don't know which medication it was from, but yeah.
[33:50] Okay.
[33:50] At some point in time, did she, Lindsay, switch providers?
[33:57] Yes.
[33:58] And why did she do that?
[34:01] Uh, because the, whatever she was doing with Jennifer Tufts, it, it wasn't working.
[34:06] She was just, she was only getting worse.
[34:09] And, um, she, uh, thought that it would be better if she worked with, I guess, more of
[34:17] like a perinatal psychiatrist.
[34:19] And did she get a referral or a recommendation of where to go?
[34:23] I think so, yeah.
[34:24] Do you know who gave her that recommendation?
[34:27] It might have been my mother.
[34:28] And your mother's a nurse at Seltzer Hospital, correct?
[34:31] Yeah.
[34:31] Um, does she also do labor and delivery work?
[34:34] Yes.
[34:34] Okay.
[34:35] And so, um, do you know which provider or which office is she recommended?
[34:42] Um, yeah.
[34:43] Her name is Julie Paul.
[34:44] And was she at the South Shore Perinatal Clinic?
[34:48] Something like that, yeah.
[34:49] Okay.
[34:50] And do you know when that was?
[34:52] I don't know the dates on that.
[35:00] Do you recall, um, saying previously that it was, um, towards the end of November?
[35:05] Yeah, that sounds, that sounds accurate, yeah.
[35:08] Okay.
[35:09] And you said she initially saw someone named Julie Paul.
[35:14] Is that correct?
[35:15] Correct.
[35:16] Okay.
[35:16] And, um, do you know how long she saw Julie Paul at that facility?
[35:23] I think it was only four or five days.
[35:26] And, um, were you aware that Julie Paul left that office?
[35:30] Yes.
[35:31] And do you know who Lindsay saw after Julie Paul?
[35:35] Rebecca Gelata.
[35:36] And was Rebecca Gelata a nurse practitioner?
[35:39] Yes.
[35:42] Were you aware that she also saw a licensed, um, social worker therapist named Letitia Dukes
[35:48] while she was at the South Shore Perinatal Clinic?
[35:53] Um, I, I don't recall Letitia Dukes, but it's possible.
[35:58] So, Lindsay never told you that she had therapy sessions with a person named Letitia Dukes during
[36:03] that time frame?
[36:04] I don't remember any therapy sessions, no.
[36:07] Okay.
[36:08] After switching to, um, Julie Paul and then Rebecca Gelata, um, did Lindsay start coming
[36:20] home with different prescription bottles?
[36:23] Yes.
[36:23] And were, um, some of these medications, um, that she came home with, were some of them
[36:32] during the time she was with Dr. Tufts?
[36:35] I think some of them were, yep.
[36:36] And some of them were while she was with, um, Julie Paul, is that correct?
[36:40] Correct.
[36:41] And then some while she was with, um, nurse practitioner Gelata, is that correct?
[36:45] Yes.
[36:46] Okay.
[36:48] And would it be accurate to state that, um, you provided the district attorney's office,
[36:57] um, with a printout, um, from CVS Pharmacy of all the prescriptions that were filled for
[37:05] Lindsay, um, uh, from September through January, September 2022 through January of 2023?
[37:17] Yes.
[37:21] Any objection?
[37:22] No, of course not.
[37:23] Can I ask for it?
[37:24] Sure.
[37:24] Yeah.
[37:29] In, members of the jury, one of the things I forgot to tell you is anything that's entered
[37:32] as an exhibit, uh, you'll have with you in the, uh, deliberating room.
[37:37] Uh, when you're deliberating.
[37:39] So you'll have a chance to go over that as well.
[37:41] So you'll have anything that's marked as an exhibit.
[37:44] Okay.
[37:46] Thank you.
[37:51] Now, while she was taking these medications, the various pills, were you always with her
[37:56] watching and monitoring exactly what she took?
[37:59] Not always, no.
[38:01] Sometimes you'd see it, sometimes you wouldn't?
[38:03] Yeah.
[38:07] Directing your attention to February 6th, 2023, um, did you go to the district attorney's office
[38:13] and, um, or have your attorney go there and provide, um, a bag of, uh, prescription medication
[38:19] that had belonged to Lindsay?
[38:22] Yeah.
[38:23] Um, I think the police took a bag of, uh, prescription medications that night, the night my kids passed
[38:31] away.
[38:31] And then, um, there was a bag, uh, that I had in my truck that I was supposed to, um,
[38:41] uh, nurse practitioner, which a lot at said, you can bring them to like a police station
[38:46] and they get rid of them for you.
[38:48] Um, but I, I never got around to it.
[38:51] And where had you stored those in your truck?
[38:54] Um, in the center console.
[38:55] It's like underneath the center console that opens.
[39:00] You have one of those center consoles that open up, but then there's another larger compartment
[39:04] below it.
[39:05] Yeah.
[39:06] Um, so was it your plan to bring these to a location where they could be properly disposed?
[39:11] Yeah, I didn't want to just throw them in the trash, so.
[39:15] And these were all medications, um, that had been prescribed in the past to Lindsay, but
[39:20] she was no longer taking, correct?
[39:22] Right.
[39:23] I don't think I have any objection to any of their exhibits, so she doesn't have to keep
[39:35] showing it to me.
[39:36] That's fine.
[39:37] So I'll assume if you do have an objection, just, uh, rise, let me know.
[39:41] Okay.
[39:41] Thank you.
[39:42] So for the record, um, I'm back here with nine pill bottles as exhibit two, please.
[39:47] Thank you.
[40:04] And so looking in exhibit two, we have, um, the, the Zoloft that was prescribed by Dr.
[40:13] Tufts and filled on September 15th, 2022.
[40:18] Um, and I think we, I asked you earlier, you weren't aware that only seven pills were taken
[40:22] out of this, correct?
[40:24] That's correct.
[40:25] And then there's another prescription in here, um, for Ativan that was filled on October
[40:33] 26th, 2022.
[40:35] Were you aware that only six pills were taken out of that bottle?
[40:38] Can you say the date again?
[40:41] October 26th, 2022.
[40:43] And how many did it start with?
[40:45] Let's see.
[40:46] 30, 30 pills.
[41:13] Okay.
[41:13] Um, I, I mean, I don't have those exact numbers on how many she took, but there was, there
[41:20] were adjustments made on the dosage of the Ativan.
[41:24] So that aligns with, but the question was, were you aware that only six pills were taken
[41:30] out of this prescription?
[41:31] Um, no, but I think the context is important.
[41:37] Okay.
[41:38] Were you aware, um, that there was a prescription for Busparon or Buspar filled on October 26th,
[41:47] 2022, um, in which only two pills were taken out of the 30 that were prescribed?
[41:52] Um, I found out about the Buspar later and, um, I, I didn't know about the number of pills
[41:58] taken.
[41:59] And then were you aware that there was a prescription for Hydroxenine, um, prescription filled on October
[42:08] 26th, 2022 for 30 pills and that, um, only three pills were taken out of this bottle.
[42:15] Um, which, which, uh, Hydroxenine.
[42:17] Yeah.
[42:17] What is that?
[42:19] I believe it's in some type of, similar to an antihistamine like Benadryl or something like
[42:25] that.
[42:25] Oh, okay.
[42:25] Um, I don't really recall much about that drug.
[42:29] Um, and were you aware in this bag, there was another prescription for Buspar that was
[42:42] filled on November 9th, 2022, 30 pills, um, prescribed, um, and no pills were taken out
[42:53] of this bottle.
[42:53] Were you aware of that?
[42:55] I wasn't keeping track of the number of pills taken out of each bottle.
[42:58] Um, and then, um, just to ask you about one more, um, the Trazodone prescribed on November
[43:08] 16th, 2022, um, by a doctor from South Shore Hospital, um, 30 pills.
[43:15] Were you aware that only seven and a half pills were taken out of this prescription?
[43:20] No.
[43:20] So there were a lot of pills prescribed, but not a lot of pills taken, correct?
[43:29] Um, is that comprehensive of all the pills that were prescribed?
[43:32] These are the pills that you brought into the police station.
[43:35] So out of these?
[43:36] Out of those, yeah.
[43:37] It's possible that, uh, not a lot were taken.
[43:55] Do you recall what was the most amount of pills prescribed?
[44:03] That's, I guess I could ask this better.
[44:04] Um, what was the maximum number of medications she was on at any one time?
[44:12] I want to say three or four.
[44:14] Would it surprise you to know that she, at any given time, the most she was prescribed
[44:24] was three, but most of the time it was two medications that she was prescribed at any
[44:29] given time?
[44:30] It wouldn't be terribly surprising, no.
[44:32] Now, um, on November 16th, 2022, did Lindsay visit South Shore Hospital?
[44:42] Uh, yes.
[44:43] Okay.
[44:43] And, um, why did she go to the, uh, South Shore Hospital that day?
[44:49] I believe that day it was because she basically went 48 hours without sleeping.
[44:55] And, um, was she having heart palpitations?
[44:59] I think so, yeah.
[45:00] Were you aware that she had taken a weed gummy that day?
[45:06] Um, I don't recall.
[45:10] And are you aware that she didn't tell medical staff at the hospital when describing her symptoms
[45:16] and her medication that she left out, that she had used marijuana?
[45:21] I wasn't with her, so I don't know what she talked about at the hospital.
[45:24] So she drove herself to the hospital?
[45:26] She did.
[45:27] Okay.
[45:28] And, um, she drove herself home from the hospital then?
[45:31] Is that correct?
[45:36] Now, during this time frame between September and November of 2022, um, are you still participating
[45:42] in, in activities as a family?
[45:44] Between November and December?
[45:47] Between September and November?
[45:48] Um, yeah.
[45:50] And what types of things were you doing?
[45:54] Um, we celebrated Halloween.
[45:59] I don't really remember what else, but I think we were doing things regularly.
[46:06] Do you recall going to an event, um, with food trucks?
[46:21] Yeah.
[46:22] In November, train strike.
[46:31] Yeah.
[46:38] Photo.
[46:51] You may.
[46:55] Exhibit three is this, um, Lindsay, Cora, and Callan, um, at that event?
[47:06] Yeah.
[47:07] Exhibit four is Lindsay with all three kids at that event in November?
[47:14] Yeah.
[47:14] Did you have plans for Thanksgiving that year?
[47:30] Yeah.
[47:30] What were your plans?
[47:33] Um, I believe the order was we went to Wallingford where her parents lived in the week before and
[47:41] then the week after, um, we went to my sister's house.
[47:46] And, um, where did your sister live?
[47:48] What town?
[47:49] South Hamilton.
[47:50] And, um, that was a week after Thanksgiving?
[47:54] Is that correct?
[47:56] I think so, yeah.
[47:57] Yeah, it was.
[48:04] And is this, uh?
[48:10] Yes.
[48:11] I could have this posted at five, I believe.
[48:15] That may be marked.
[48:16] Showing you what's been marked.
[48:27] A little bit five.
[48:28] Is this Lindsay here on the left?
[48:31] Yes.
[48:32] Um, and are those your sisters in the photo with her?
[48:35] That's one of my sisters and my sister-in-law.
[48:39] Okay.
[48:40] And have they coordinated outfits for the day?
[48:43] The shirts?
[48:44] Um, yeah, I think my sister did.
[48:52] Lindsay's demeanor that day?
[48:53] Uh, she was in the photo.
[48:55] She was in rough shape.
[48:56] Rough shape?
[48:57] Yeah.
[48:58] How so?
[48:59] She wasn't talking much.
[49:00] She had low energy.
[49:01] She was really depressed.
[49:03] I just remember when she showed up, um, my sister-in-law gave her a big hug.
[49:09] And, um, she was able to get through dinner, eat dinner with everyone?
[49:14] Yeah.
[49:14] Okay.
[49:15] Um, she interacted with people, is that correct?
[49:19] I would say very little, but to some degree, sure.
[49:22] And she took care of the kids with you while she was there?
[49:26] We both took care of the kids together.
[49:27] You mentioned earlier that your wedding anniversary is in December, is that correct?
[49:37] Yeah.
[49:38] Do you recall going out for your anniversary on December 3rd, 2022, going into Boston?
[49:46] No, we didn't go out.
[49:47] You don't recall, um, arranging for a massage for Lindsay and then going to the Omni Parker
[49:53] house and, um, going out to dinner that night?
[49:58] No, December 3rd, 2022, we stayed home.
[50:00] You stayed home.
[50:01] Okay.
[50:01] A photo?
[50:31] Yeah.
[50:32] And when was that taken?
[50:33] I'm not really sure.
[50:38] It wasn't taken on December 3rd when you were out celebrating your anniversary?
[50:41] In 2022?
[50:43] No.
[50:44] No.
[50:48] No, we, we wanted to go out, um, but we canceled because she wasn't feeling well.
[50:52] So we stayed home.
[50:53] We got takeout.
[50:54] Okay.
[50:59] Did you also, um, in, on November 26th, 2022, um, go out as a family to get a Christmas tree?
[51:09] Yes.
[51:11] Well, probably.
[51:12] I don't know.
[51:12] But yeah, around that time, yes.
[51:14] Okay.
[51:14] That day when you, uh...
[51:28] Yeah, that looks accurate.
[51:29] There's a photo of it at seven.
[51:44] It's a bit six.
[52:04] It's all of you at the tree farm.
[52:06] Yeah.
[52:07] It's a bit seven.
[52:10] Those are the kids.
[52:12] Yes.
[52:24] Around December 6th, 2022, did Lindsay tell you she was starting a new medication?
[52:34] Uh, I don't remember specifically.
[52:38] Is it that you don't remember the date or you don't remember her starting a new medication?
[52:43] I, I'm not sure.
[52:45] Do you remember Lindsay telling you at some point she was starting the medication Seroquel?
[52:50] Yes.
[52:51] Do you remember around what time frame that was?
[52:55] I thought it was before December 6th.
[52:57] Okay.
[53:03] And do you recall how she was physically after starting the Seroquel?
[53:15] Awful.
[53:16] How so?
[53:18] Um, that was really where her big spiral started.
[53:21] Um, she started to lose a lot of weight and, um, she became very depressed and, uh, she was
[53:29] having a really hard time.
[53:30] Um, and, um, did she describe to you some thoughts or feelings that, um, she was having
[53:38] at that time?
[53:39] Yeah.
[53:40] She started to say she was suicidal.
[53:43] And was that in December of 2022?
[53:46] I think so.
[53:46] Yeah.
[53:46] And when she told you she was suicidal, did you ask her if she had a plan on how to kill
[53:53] herself?
[53:54] Yes.
[53:55] And what was her response?
[53:57] She said no.
[53:58] And did she ever mention a specific way or plan she had to kill herself to you?
[54:05] No.
[54:06] And at some point in time, um, did she tell you that this, this was the first time she
[54:17] had had suicidal thoughts?
[54:20] Um, I don't know if she mentioned it was the first time or not.
[54:23] I, I just remember her saying she had them.
[54:26] Had you ever heard her say that to you before that she was having suicidal thoughts?
[54:30] No.
[54:32] Um, did you own at that time a, a Surface Pro, a type of tablet that works as a laptop?
[54:39] Yeah.
[54:40] And who had access to that laptop?
[54:43] Uh, we both did.
[54:45] You and Lindsey?
[54:46] Yeah.
[54:47] And going back to August 22nd, 2022, did you click on a link on that Surface Pro, um, that
[54:54] was titled, um, Methods of Suicide?
[54:57] Not that I recall.
[55:00] And August 22nd, 2022, that was before Lindsey had been on any medications, as far as you
[55:06] know, correct?
[55:07] Correct.
[55:13] Going back to December, um, she's told you that she's having these thoughts.
[55:18] Um, what's your reaction when she tells you that she's having these suicidal thoughts?
[55:27] Um, I just wanted to support her.
[55:29] I, I asked those questions back to her and, um, her, you know, her mother was coming up
[55:36] pretty regularly anyways.
[55:37] So, um, we let them know and, um, we just try to be supportive.
[55:44] Did she also tell you at that time at the beginning of December that she was having, um, some other
[55:49] intrusive thoughts?
[55:50] Yeah.
[55:51] Is that how she described them or how you described them, intrusive thoughts?
[55:55] I would say both.
[55:57] Okay.
[55:58] And, um, when she told you that she was having intrusive thoughts, did you ask her what they
[56:03] were?
[56:04] Yeah.
[56:04] And what was her response?
[56:07] She described thoughts of, of hurting the kids or, um, or having, or them having some sort
[56:16] of ailment.
[56:18] So, like, she was very worried that Cora had, whenever she had a stomachache, she became
[56:22] overly worried that she was, um, you know, like, like, had like a liver problem or something
[56:28] much more dramatic than it was.
[56:30] Okay.
[56:30] But going back to that first part, she said she had thoughts of harming the kids.
[56:34] Is that correct?
[56:34] Yeah.
[56:36] And did she tell you, um, whether or not she had specific thoughts of how she would harm
[56:42] the kids?
[56:42] No.
[56:44] And she didn't describe that as hearing this external voice telling her to harm the kids,
[56:48] correct?
[56:49] Correct.
[56:50] She told you she was having intrusive thoughts herself of having, of harming the children,
[56:56] correct?
[56:57] Uh, correct.
[56:59] And, um, did you ask her, um, how she was going to harm the kids?
[57:05] I, I didn't ask it in that way.
[57:07] I, it was the same thing.
[57:08] I said, do you have a plan and is it disturbing to you?
[57:11] And, uh, she said no.
[57:12] And then she said yes.
[57:14] And, um.
[57:15] Let me go back for a minute there.
[57:16] Um, you said, did she, do you have a plan?
[57:18] And she said no.
[57:20] What was the second question?
[57:21] Second part of the question?
[57:23] Is it, do you find it disturbing?
[57:25] Okay.
[57:25] And she said yes.
[57:26] And she described it as, really the, the way she was describing it as, um, something
[57:32] that might happen to the kids.
[57:34] So it was more something might happen than she might do something.
[57:37] Is that correct?
[57:39] Yeah.
[57:40] And, um, did, did she tell you how long she had those thoughts for?
[57:48] She didn't give a duration.
[57:50] And, um, how many times did she tell you this, that she had thoughts of harming the kids?
[57:57] A couple times.
[58:00] And was that a couple times over the course of a night or two in December?
[58:04] Yeah.
[58:04] And as a result of her telling you this, that she had thoughts of harming the kids,
[58:10] what did you do?
[58:13] Um, her parents came up.
[58:14] And, um, I think I asked her at some point, you know, do you feel like you need to be kept
[58:20] away from them?
[58:20] And she said no.
[58:22] And then, you know, it was very confusing because a minute later she was making them
[58:27] lunch or playing with them or, you know, getting them ready for bed or whatever it was.
[58:32] So it was confusing in that she wasn't physically harming them at the time but was having, had
[58:40] had these thoughts?
[58:40] Is that what you're saying?
[58:41] Right.
[58:42] I never saw Lindsay harm the kids.
[58:46] And did you also, um, as a result of, um, these statements, uh, suggest an appointment
[58:52] with that nurse practitioner, Delada?
[58:55] It wasn't as a result of these statements.
[58:57] Um, that appointment was set up because, um, we were at her parents' house in Wallingford
[59:04] for Thanksgiving and she just described, um, how she was feeling on the medication and
[59:13] she felt that she was, um, she felt that she was addicted to them.
[59:17] Was that the benzodiazepines that she thought she was addicted to?
[59:20] Uh, primarily and then she was taking Seroquel at the same time and, um, she might have been
[59:27] taking Trazodone or Remeron, I'm not sure.
[59:29] Okay.
[59:30] Um, are you, do you recall testifying previously, um, that I called her parents to come up to
[59:36] stay with us and I told her that we needed, I asked her who her doctor was because I was
[59:40] very concerned at this point.
[59:41] She was prescribed 10 different medications in just over two months so it didn't make sense
[59:45] to me and then you said, so after her parents came up, um, she has, she said, I have a remote
[59:51] meeting with Rebecca Delada and you said, no, it has to be in person.
[59:54] Yeah.
[59:56] I felt like it had to be in person because, um, I just felt like there was a disconnect.
[1:00:01] I, I, I felt like we could figure it out, um, whatever was going on.
[1:00:06] So, um, most of her, it seemed like most of her telehealth appointments were pretty quick
[1:00:13] and, um, there just wasn't like a lot of attention.
[1:00:16] Were you present for these telehealth visits?
[1:00:19] Only a few of them and they were after that meeting with Delada.
[1:00:23] Okay.
[1:00:24] And that appointment in person with Delada was December 6th, 2022.
[1:00:27] Is that correct?
[1:00:28] That sounds correct.
[1:00:29] So the thought of harming the kids was after Thanksgiving, but before December 6th.
[1:00:37] Is that correct?
[1:00:38] Uh, that, that sounds correct.
[1:00:41] Were you concerned for the kids' safety at that time?
[1:00:46] No, I wasn't.
[1:00:47] And why not?
[1:00:49] Because she wasn't showing any intention of harming the kids.
[1:00:52] And she told you she didn't have a plan.
[1:00:54] Is that correct?
[1:00:55] Correct.
[1:01:04] Now, um, directing your attention to December 15th, 2022.
[1:01:11] Um, did Lindsay go to Mass General Hospital to the emergency department that day?
[1:01:18] Yeah.
[1:01:19] And why was that?
[1:01:21] Um, I remember the reasoning being she, um, told her dad that she wanted to commit suicide.
[1:01:29] And then she said to me, I told my dad I want to die and it didn't bother me at all.
[1:01:34] And as a result of those statements, you brought her or did she bring herself to Mass General?
[1:01:53] I think I brought her that time.
[1:01:56] And at Mass General, she saw medical staff, correct?
[1:02:01] Yeah.
[1:02:02] And, um, did they recommend to her some type of, um, admission to McLean Hospital?
[1:02:10] Um, I remember there was one doctor who was in favor of that and there were two others
[1:02:16] who were more in favor of a day program.
[1:02:18] And did they give you information about a specific day program?
[1:02:22] Yeah, it was women and infants in Providence.
[1:02:24] And at that time when, um, Lindsay was saying that she was suicidal, um, was she asked if
[1:02:33] she had a plan?
[1:02:35] By the doctors?
[1:02:36] Or by you?
[1:02:38] Um, I was always checking in with her and, um, she never told me that she had a plan.
[1:02:43] Um, I'm not sure what the doctors asked her.
[1:02:49] And after, um, being at Mass General on December 15th, um, did she go to Women and Infants Hospital
[1:02:57] in Rhode Island, um, to attempt to get into their, uh, postpartum program?
[1:03:02] She was already in, she, she went in as scheduled.
[1:03:06] Okay.
[1:03:07] And, um, but she didn't remain in, correct?
[1:03:09] She was just there for a day?
[1:03:10] Correct.
[1:03:11] Okay.
[1:03:12] And, um, did she go by herself?
[1:03:14] Did you go with her?
[1:03:15] I dropped her off and then I took Dawson skiing.
[1:03:18] And, um, at some point in time, did Lindsay reach out to you to say she wasn't staying at
[1:03:25] the program and to come pick her up?
[1:03:28] Um, she actually said that the, um, the providers at that program suggested to her that she call
[1:03:35] me and have her get picked up and then that I should go in and meet with the providers.
[1:03:39] Okay.
[1:03:40] And then after you picked her up, you didn't, she was no longer in the program at that point,
[1:03:48] correct?
[1:03:50] At Rhode Island Women and Children's, right?
[1:03:52] Well, we discussed it with the doctors and their recommendation was that the program wasn't
[1:03:56] right for her.
[1:03:57] Right.
[1:03:58] So you guys returned home, is that correct?
[1:04:01] Yes.
[1:04:02] Okay.
[1:04:03] And, um, during this timeframe, um, in December, um, Lindsay's still working out at the Kingsbury
[1:04:16] Club, correct?
[1:04:17] That might be true.
[1:04:19] I don't recall exactly, but yeah.
[1:04:22] Do you recall her going to the Kingsbury Club on December 6th, 13th, 16th, 17th, or 18th?
[1:04:36] I mean, I, I, I believe that can be true.
[1:04:39] I don't recall this exact date, but yeah.
[1:04:43] Um, at, at this time when, um, she's saying that she's feeling suicidal, um, she's telling
[1:04:54] you she doesn't have a plan, correct?
[1:04:56] Mm-hmm.
[1:04:57] And she's saying she has any thoughts of harming the children, correct?
[1:05:01] Correct.
[1:05:02] Um, she's still bringing the children to doctor's appointments during that time, right?
[1:05:07] Yeah.
[1:05:09] Do you recall, um, her bringing, uh, Callan and Dawson, uh, to the doctors on December
[1:05:16] 2nd when they weren't feeling well?
[1:05:18] Yeah.
[1:05:20] And then, um, she was able to call the doctor's office on December 27th and make an appointment
[1:05:25] for Callan and Cora when they weren't feeling well.
[1:05:27] Do you remember that?
[1:05:29] Yeah.
[1:05:30] And take them to the doctor, I believe with you, correct?
[1:05:35] Um, maybe, I, I don't know.
[1:05:40] And then on December 30th, um, she was able to take Callan, um, to the doctor that day
[1:05:44] as well and interact with the, with the staff.
[1:05:47] Is that correct?
[1:05:49] Probably.
[1:05:53] Then, um, you returned to Mass General Hospital, the emergency department on December 31st.
[1:05:59] Is that correct?
[1:06:01] Yes.
[1:06:02] And why did you go back on the 31st?
[1:06:05] Um, because she was still talking about thoughts of suicide and, um, I, I was exhausted.
[1:06:13] I said, I think it's time to go to McLean and, uh, we didn't have a, a diagnosis.
[1:06:21] So we just, we just didn't really know what was wrong.
[1:06:24] And, um, I think for me, I was hoping that McLean could really evaluate her and, and, you
[1:06:31] know, try to figure out the best path forward.
[1:06:33] Okay.
[1:06:34] So the path to getting to McLean was to go to the emergency department at Mass General
[1:06:38] and be referred to McLean.
[1:06:39] Is that correct?
[1:06:40] Yes.
[1:06:42] Were you aware, um, that that night, um, while at the hospital, um, Lindsay was taking
[1:06:51] selfies?
[1:06:56] Uh, no.
[1:07:13] They may be admitted.
[1:07:14] They may be admitted.
[1:07:28] A selfie at the hospital.
[1:07:29] Is that correct?
[1:07:33] Are you asking me?
[1:07:35] Yeah.
[1:07:36] I can see that.
[1:07:37] And then the second page is just her legs in the doorway.
[1:07:40] Is that correct?
[1:07:41] Yep.
[1:07:54] As a result of going to Mass General and telling them about her, her suicidal thoughts,
[1:08:00] um, was she transferred to McLean Hospital?
[1:08:02] Yeah.
[1:08:03] Okay.
[1:08:04] And, um, did you stay with her throughout that transfer process or were you able to?
[1:08:11] I was not able to.
[1:08:12] They, for some reason they transfer.
[1:08:14] I don't know if they do this with all patients, but she was transferred at three in the morning.
[1:08:19] Okay.
[1:08:20] And so, um, she reached McLean in the early morning hours of, um, January 1st then of 2023.
[1:08:27] Is that correct?
[1:08:28] Yeah.
[1:08:29] Okay.
[1:08:30] And did you visit her at McLean Hospital?
[1:08:31] Yeah.
[1:08:32] How often did you see her there?
[1:08:33] I think I was able to go twice, uh, or maybe three times.
[1:08:37] Okay.
[1:08:38] And do you remember, you know, what visiting hours were or what hours you visited?
[1:08:43] I don't remember exactly, but it was, you know, something like two to six.
[1:08:46] And I think there were morning hours or, but you couldn't just go anytime.
[1:08:50] You couldn't or could?
[1:08:51] You could not.
[1:08:52] Okay.
[1:08:53] And so you, um, out of the few days that she was there, what five days she was there,
[1:08:58] you visited two or three times.
[1:08:59] Is that correct?
[1:09:00] Yeah.
[1:09:01] And while you were there with her, did she, did Lindsay talk to you, um, about the, um,
[1:09:08] treatment that she was receiving at McLean Hospital?
[1:09:12] Uh, she told me about her, her experience.
[1:09:14] It didn't really seem like she was getting any treatment.
[1:09:16] Okay.
[1:09:17] Did she tell you that she wasn't really getting any treatment or wasn't getting as much, um,
[1:09:24] care or treatment as she wanted?
[1:09:25] Uh, well, I think by the third day I, I said, um, you know, what are the, what have the doctors
[1:09:30] said?
[1:09:31] And she said, I haven't met with the doctor.
[1:09:32] Um, the challenge was she arrived on a Saturday and then I think Monday was an observed holiday.
[1:09:40] So she didn't see a doctor until Tuesday.
[1:09:42] So until then, um, she was coloring and playing with clay and going for walks.
[1:09:47] Were you aware that, um, she was seen by a resident, a doctor, um, the first two days she
[1:09:55] was there and then an attending on the third day that she was there?
[1:09:58] No.
[1:09:59] Were you aware that she was seen by a licensed social worker, group therapist and other mental
[1:10:05] health workers, um, every day while she was there?
[1:10:08] Yeah, I, I didn't get any updates.
[1:10:11] Were you aware that she was offered one-on-one, um, therapy by unit staff every day that she
[1:10:17] was there?
[1:10:18] No.
[1:10:19] Did you know that she participated in group therapy on January 1st for 45 minutes, a session
[1:10:24] about illness and symptom management?
[1:10:26] Uh, I, I was aware of some group activities.
[1:10:30] I didn't know the details of it.
[1:10:32] And were you aware that she participated in two group therapy sessions, one for 45 minutes
[1:10:38] and one for 50 minutes, one on self-compassion and one on illness and symptom management
[1:10:43] on January 3rd?
[1:10:44] I wasn't aware of the subject of any of the meetings now.
[1:10:47] Were you aware that she declined further, um, group therapy and treatment, um, in the afternoon
[1:10:53] of January 3rd?
[1:10:54] No.
[1:10:55] Were you aware that on January 4th she participated in a group, uh, for 40 minutes called medication
[1:11:00] management?
[1:11:01] No.
[1:11:03] Were you aware that she participated in a group on January 5th on expressive therapy for
[1:11:08] 45 minutes?
[1:11:09] And were you aware that she declined further treatment, uh, two times on January 5th?
[1:11:15] Um, one to attend a group therapy and one to attend a session on cognitive behavioral processes?
[1:11:21] No.
[1:11:22] Were you aware that, um, Lindsay asked the doctors to be discharged, um, on the 6th, Friday
[1:11:31] the 6th, because she wanted to go to Kora's birthday party on the 7th?
[1:11:35] Um, not that I recall.
[1:11:38] Were you aware or did Lindsay tell you that, um, she then asked the doctors to discharge
[1:11:44] her on January 5th, um, because she wanted to, to go home and get ready for the party?
[1:11:49] I wasn't aware of Lindsay asking the doctors to be discharged.
[1:11:55] Were there any insurance issues in terms of insurance refusing to pay for her stay at McLean
[1:12:04] Hospital?
[1:12:06] I, we didn't really get to that point.
[1:12:08] You weren't advised by the social worker or any staff there that there were any issues
[1:12:14] with your insurance, is that correct?
[1:12:16] Uh, yeah, that's correct, but I wouldn't have cared either.
[1:12:20] Would you have just paid for it, if needed?
[1:12:22] I would have paid anything.
[1:12:23] Yeah.
[1:12:28] Ms. Sprague, is this a good time to break?
[1:12:30] Yes.
[1:12:31] Alright, so, members of the jury, we're gonna break, uh, for the afternoon recess.
[1:12:35] Um, and, uh, we'll see you back here about 2 o'clock.
[1:12:39] Okay?
[1:12:41] Court R.I.s.
[1:12:42] You're supposed to know what to make them on your chance.
[1:13:10] And, um, she had a lot of friends.
[1:13:12] And, um, she just liked taking care of people.
[1:13:19] Yes.
[1:13:28] He was using firefighters and trucks.
[1:13:36] And, um, he liked Paw Patrol.
[1:13:45] He's only 8 months old, correct?
[1:13:54] Correct.
[1:13:55] Did he have any disorders?
[1:13:58] He was just a happy baby.
[1:14:01] And then, um, just showing you, specifically exhibit 12, does this picture clearly indicate
[1:14:09] their sizes in relation to each other in January 2023?
[1:14:13] Yes.
[1:14:14] After, um, Lindsay was released from McLean Hospital, um, was there a birthday party for
[1:14:34] Cora on January 7th, 2023?
[1:14:37] Yes.
[1:14:38] And who had, um, organized that birthday party?
[1:14:41] I think we both did.
[1:14:44] And, um, where was it?
[1:14:46] It was at Nova in Plymouth.
[1:14:50] And was Lindsay present for the, uh, party?
[1:14:53] Yes.
[1:14:54] And, um, do you recall who got all the supplies and everything for the party?
[1:15:03] I think Lindsay did.
[1:15:04] We could play a video.
[1:15:08] I'm gonna ask you to look at a video and just tell me if you recognize this as a video,
[1:15:13] um, from the party.
[1:15:14] Yeah.
[1:15:31] And was that Cora seated in front of Lindsay while singing happy birthday?
[1:15:36] Yeah.
[1:15:37] And there's a second clip.
[1:15:40] Again, was that Cora and Lindsay?
[1:15:43] Yeah.
[1:15:45] Hope to have the birthday videos as the next exhibit.
[1:15:53] That may be admitted.
[1:15:54] From Cora's birthday party until January 23rd, 2023, um, did you check on and check in with Lindsay?
[1:16:17] Every day.
[1:16:18] And how did you do that?
[1:16:19] I would ask her in the morning how she's feeling, how she slept.
[1:16:24] And did she tell you that she was sleeping better?
[1:16:28] Maybe a little bit better, but she's still struggling.
[1:16:32] And did you ask her during that time if she had suicidal thoughts?
[1:16:43] Yeah.
[1:16:45] And what was her response?
[1:16:46] She told me no.
[1:16:47] She told you what?
[1:16:48] She said no.
[1:16:49] No.
[1:16:50] Did she ever tell you during that time period that she was having thoughts of harming the
[1:16:57] children?
[1:16:58] No.
[1:16:59] Did you as a family go to the Museum of Science on January 8th, 2023?
[1:17:06] Yes.
[1:17:07] Was the defendant able to participate in activities with the children while at the museum on January
[1:17:15] 8th?
[1:17:16] Yes.
[1:17:21] I'm going to pull up a photograph.
[1:17:22] The jurors can follow their movements through the video footage.
[1:17:33] So if I may.
[1:17:34] Down here in the maroon colored shirt.
[1:17:41] It's Dawson.
[1:17:42] Dawson.
[1:17:43] And in the red skirt.
[1:17:44] Cora.
[1:17:45] And in the gray jacket.
[1:17:46] Lindsay.
[1:17:49] Here pushing the carriage.
[1:17:50] That's me.
[1:17:52] And is Cowan in the carriage at that time?
[1:17:53] Yeah.
[1:17:54] Permission to play the video, Your Honor?
[1:17:55] That's what I see again sidebar.
[1:17:56] At this time we've moved to submit the still photograph and the video pursuant to the discussion
[1:25:34] at sidebar.
[1:25:35] I'd move to submit the full video in as one exhibit for identification and the timeline
[1:25:44] video as the exhibit.
[1:25:46] Timeline.
[1:25:50] Do we.
[1:25:51] You submit the copy of that later?
[1:25:53] There's a full video that was provided.
[1:25:56] Right.
[1:26:03] That's fine.
[1:26:22] Sir, after going to the Museum of Science.
[1:26:41] Well, let me go back to that for a moment.
[1:26:44] At the Museum of Science, do you recall the defendant being able to interact with the
[1:26:50] children at exhibits that required, you know, manipulating knobs and materials and showing
[1:26:58] the children how to do those exhibits and interacting with them at those exhibits?
[1:27:01] Yeah.
[1:27:02] Lindsay was always able to interact with our kids, including at the Museum of Science.
[1:27:07] And then after your trip to the Museum of Science, do you remember going to the Charlie
[1:27:14] Horse restaurant with the kids and Lindsay?
[1:27:17] Yes.
[1:27:18] And how how soon after the Museum of Science was that?
[1:27:21] Do you recall?
[1:27:22] I don't recall the exact dates.
[1:27:24] Okay.
[1:27:25] And what type of place is the Charlie Horse restaurant?
[1:27:28] It's like a family restaurant with games.
[1:27:31] And how was the defendant's demeanor at the restaurant?
[1:27:36] It was good.
[1:27:38] I was hopeful.
[1:27:39] Why were you hopeful?
[1:27:41] Because she seemed much better.
[1:27:42] And then on January 14th, 2023, were you able to go to brunch with your friends while the
[1:27:54] defendant was home with the children?
[1:27:56] Yeah.
[1:27:58] And about how long were you gone?
[1:28:02] About two hours.
[1:28:03] Were there any issues or problems that you were aware of while you were gone?
[1:28:07] No.
[1:28:09] She encouraged me to go.
[1:28:10] She said, you've just been inside a lot.
[1:28:13] You should go out.
[1:28:14] And it was fine.
[1:28:15] And while you were there at brunch, did she send you photos of the kids and text messages?
[1:28:22] I think so.
[1:28:23] Yeah.
[1:28:28] Directing your attention to January 15th, 2023, did you and Lindsay and the kids go to the
[1:28:34] Cape Codder in Hyannis?
[1:28:35] Yeah.
[1:28:36] And was there a water park there?
[1:28:38] Yeah.
[1:28:40] And how was Lindsay's demeanor that day?
[1:28:44] It seemed pretty good.
[1:28:45] Was she able to interact with the children and participate in the activities?
[1:28:50] Yes.
[1:28:51] I could bring up photos again.
[1:28:55] I would just like you to look at the photos to point out the photo.
[1:29:03] Here in the dark, white band on the top.
[1:29:09] That's me.
[1:29:11] And then in the bathing suit here.
[1:29:13] That's Cora.
[1:29:15] And then in the striped swimsuit at the bottom.
[1:29:18] That's Dawson.
[1:29:19] And then here in the black bathing suit without shoulder straps.
[1:29:29] Lindsay.
[1:29:30] Lindsay.
[1:29:31] And is that, that was Cora with her?
[1:29:34] Yes.
[1:29:35] And in this third photo, is that Lindsay with Callan in her arms?
[1:29:42] Yeah.
[1:29:49] And that photo there is that Dawson with the striped bathing suit?
[1:29:53] Yep.
[1:29:54] We can go to the video with the court's permission.
[1:29:57] How long?
[1:29:58] I'm just going to go to certain clips.
[1:30:01] If we could start with the, from the beginning to 40 seconds in and play.
[1:30:07] Sir, if you could tell us who, well can you confirm that that's you and the children and Lindsay arriving now?
[1:30:20] Yes.
[1:30:21] That'd be Cora in the purple jacket with the pink boots?
[1:30:37] Yes.
[1:30:38] And Lindsay in the gray coat with the back.
[1:30:41] Yes.
[1:30:42] And then if we could go to 139.
[1:31:23] And during this time are you waiting to check in and get your wristbands and all of that?
[1:31:42] Yeah.
[1:32:16] We could go to 647.
[1:32:17] Do you recognize this play area?
[1:32:28] Yes.
[1:32:29] And did you and Lindsay and the children go over to this pirate ship area?
[1:32:34] Yep.
[1:32:35] I'm showing you here, is that Cora that just went down the slide?
[1:32:40] Yeah.
[1:32:57] Is that you there by the slide?
[1:32:58] Yeah.
[1:33:00] We can go to 1122.
[1:33:02] We could go to 1406.
[1:34:52] Oh, 1425.
[1:34:54] Sir, here at 1625.
[1:35:21] Is that Cora and then Lindsay that go down the slide together?
[1:35:39] Yeah.
[1:35:40] We can go to 1745.
[1:35:50] Got the same thing here.
[1:36:07] Yeah.
[1:36:09] So she's able to interact with Cora and the others, participate in the activities.
[1:36:13] Yeah.
[1:36:16] If we could go to 4753, please.
[1:36:20] You're up in the gear.
[1:36:34] Yep.
[1:36:36] Is you and Dawson and Cora entering the pool area?
[1:36:41] Yeah.
[1:36:42] Lindsay was with Callan at that time, correct?
[1:36:45] Yes.
[1:36:47] So you were comfortable with her being off in a separate area with Callan while you were
[1:36:52] with Cora and Dawson that day?
[1:36:54] Yeah.
[1:36:55] Okay.
[1:36:57] That's all.
[1:36:58] Thank you.
[1:36:59] I move to submit the photos and timeline.
[1:37:02] Again, let me just see over here just briefly, just so I have that straight.
[1:40:22] Can you submit with the guidelines?
[1:40:23] All right.
[1:40:24] Pursuant to our discussion, that portion may be admitted.
[1:40:32] What's that, 15?
[1:40:33] Sir, directing your attention now to January 16th, 2023.
[1:40:46] Did you go skiing that day?
[1:40:47] Yeah.
[1:40:48] And who did you go skiing with?
[1:40:49] Cora.
[1:40:50] And was it just the two of you?
[1:40:53] No, we went with another dad and his son.
[1:40:56] And who was that dad?
[1:40:57] Adam Schwebuck.
[1:40:58] And was Lindsay home with Callan and Dawson that day when you went skiing with Cora?
[1:41:07] Yeah.
[1:41:08] Were there any issues or problems that you're aware of when she was home alone with the kids
[1:41:14] all day?
[1:41:15] No.
[1:41:16] And was she able to communicate with you throughout the day?
[1:41:20] Yeah.
[1:41:21] And how was that communication done?
[1:41:23] Texts, I might have called her, I'm not sure.
[1:41:27] And do you recall texting each other back and forth photos of you with Cora and the boys
[1:41:35] at home and what they were doing?
[1:41:36] Yeah.
[1:41:37] And so she was able to take those photographs and send them to you without any apparent problem,
[1:41:42] correct?
[1:41:43] Correct.
[1:41:52] I'll show you the three texts.
[1:41:54] Sir, are these accurate copies of the defendant on January 16th, 2023?
[1:42:30] Yes.
[1:42:31] They may be admitted.
[1:42:36] So, sorry, showing you the first photo which was marked in 16.
[1:43:08] Did you start off the conversation by sending the photo of you and Cora and Steve?
[1:43:14] Yeah.
[1:43:15] And showing you exhibit 17, did Lindsay respond by taking and sending this photo of Dawson?
[1:43:24] Yeah.
[1:43:25] And then did she respond again sending you a selfie she took of herself and Callan?
[1:43:33] Yeah.
[1:43:35] And you felt comfortable leaving Callan and Dawson home with her that day?
[1:43:49] Yeah.
[1:43:50] And why is that?
[1:43:51] She seemed to be doing a lot better.
[1:43:54] In what ways did she seem to be doing better?
[1:43:58] Her mood seemed better, she was more active and she was able to partake in more things.
[1:44:07] She was also going to the gym during that time as well, correct?
[1:44:10] The Kingsbury Club?
[1:44:11] That sounds right, yeah.
[1:44:12] Were you hopeful at that time that things were getting better?
[1:44:21] Yeah.
[1:44:22] Did Lindsay's parents visit you the weekend of January 21st through the 22nd?
[1:44:29] Yeah.
[1:44:30] And whose idea was that, do you recall?
[1:44:34] I think it was theirs.
[1:44:36] I think they were just coming to visit to say hi.
[1:44:40] And what did you guys do that weekend?
[1:44:44] We just hung out and went to a friend's house on Sunday.
[1:44:48] They left after we got back from there.
[1:44:50] And whose friend's house did you go to that Sunday?
[1:44:56] The Carney's.
[1:44:57] Carney's, okay.
[1:44:58] And who went to the Carney's?
[1:45:00] Lindsay, myself, Dawson and Cora.
[1:45:05] And what did you do there?
[1:45:09] There was a fire and we were, I think we rose some marshmallows or something like that.
[1:45:13] And how was Lindsay's demeanor that day?
[1:45:17] She was quieter that day.
[1:45:20] So, I mean, that was the extent of it.
[1:45:23] Was she able to interact with the Carney's?
[1:45:26] Yeah, but she's quiet.
[1:45:29] And you said you returned home and then her parents left?
[1:45:34] Yeah.
[1:45:35] Lindsay and her mom taking a picture together that weekend.
[1:45:54] Yeah.
[1:45:55] That may be admitted.
[1:46:04] Lindsay seemed to be better that weekend, correct?
[1:46:17] Overall, yeah.
[1:46:19] Were you aware that her mother had sent her a text saying something to the effect of,
[1:46:23] I'm glad you're doing so much better?
[1:46:24] I became aware of that later, yeah.
[1:46:26] Just showing you some vision.
[1:46:28] I'm sorry, Your Honor.
[1:46:41] I didn't mark the still photo from the Museum of Science.
[1:46:44] If you could have that as the next.
[1:46:48] Sure.
[1:47:06] That Monday, after her parents had gone home to Connecticut,
[1:47:10] so Monday the 23rd of January.
[1:47:13] Did Cora and Dawson go to school?
[1:47:16] Yeah.
[1:47:17] And do you recall Lindsay picking them up that afternoon?
[1:47:20] Yeah.
[1:47:23] When Lindsay returned home with Cora and Dawson,
[1:47:26] did she discuss with you that Cora was having some stomach issues at school?
[1:47:31] Yeah.
[1:47:32] And were you familiar with the stomach issues that Cora had been having?
[1:47:35] Yeah.
[1:47:37] And did you have an idea of what was causing those stomach issues?
[1:47:43] Yeah, it wasn't unusual.
[1:47:44] She was embarrassed to go to the bathroom at school.
[1:47:48] So she just held it all day.
[1:47:50] And so this was a common occurrence?
[1:47:52] Yeah.
[1:47:53] And were you aware that Cora had her five-year physical scheduled for the next day,
[1:48:00] Tuesday the 24th?
[1:48:01] No, I didn't know that was already scheduled.
[1:48:06] I thought she called it in and set it up.
[1:48:10] So that's news to me.
[1:48:12] Okay.
[1:48:13] So would it have been Lindsay who would make those kinds of appointments,
[1:48:17] the physicals and all of that?
[1:48:19] She usually handled that, yeah.
[1:48:20] Okay.
[1:48:21] And going to Tuesday, January 24th, 2023, were you working that day?
[1:48:29] Sorry, you said on the 24th?
[1:48:33] Yes, Tuesday the 24th.
[1:48:34] Yeah.
[1:48:35] That morning was Cora's doctor's appointment at 8 a.m.?
[1:48:40] Yeah.
[1:48:41] And who took her to the doctor's appointment?
[1:48:43] Lindsay.
[1:48:44] And did anyone have to go with her or did she drive herself and Cora there?
[1:48:49] It's just Lindsay and Cora.
[1:48:51] And you were home with the boys, is that right?
[1:48:53] Yeah.
[1:48:54] And while you're with the boys and Lindsay's with Cora at the doctor's, are you sending text messages and photos back and forth?
[1:49:04] Yeah.
[1:49:06] And why did you send a photo of Dawson to Lindsay that morning?
[1:49:11] Because he dressed himself completely for the first time.
[1:49:15] And he was excited about that?
[1:49:19] Yeah.
[1:49:20] And did she respond back with a photo of Cora?
[1:49:27] Yeah.
[1:49:28] Are these the photos you sent?
[1:49:37] Yeah.
[1:49:39] Are these the photos you sent?
[1:49:40] Yeah.
[1:49:41] I could have the photo of Dawson as the next.
[1:49:45] They may be admitted.
[1:49:46] 22 so much.
[1:49:58] Publishing weeks.
[1:50:01] 21.
[1:50:04] And while you were texting with Lindsay back and forth, were you able to understand her text messages?
[1:50:20] Yeah.
[1:50:21] Yeah.
[1:50:24] Did she seem to understand yours in response?
[1:50:26] Yes.
[1:50:30] Did she return home?
[1:50:31] Yes.
[1:50:34] And do you recall around what time she got home that morning?
[1:50:40] 830.
[1:50:41] And once she got home, what did you do?
[1:50:43] I think I got ready for work.
[1:50:47] And while you were downstairs working in your office, do you know what Lindsay and the kids were doing?
[1:50:58] They built a snowman and they did some art projects.
[1:51:02] And how did you know this was happening?
[1:51:04] She texted me a picture.
[1:51:06] So Lindsay was continuing to text you and send you photographs throughout that day?
[1:51:11] Yeah.
[1:51:12] And I went up to say hi at one point.
[1:51:27] First, I just want to show that you recognize the messages going back and forth between you and Lindsay that morning.
[1:51:52] This is an activity sensor.
[1:51:55] I think this is something else.
[1:52:01] Starting at 724 and we go to 817 a.m.
[1:52:09] This is the photo you sent with Dawson.
[1:52:11] And then the replies going to 818 a.m.
[1:52:18] This is the reply from Lindsay.
[1:52:20] And then throughout the day, just messages back and forth up to the point, page 940, where Lindsay's sending you the photos of the kids in the snow.
[1:52:44] Is that correct?
[1:52:45] Yeah.
[1:52:46] We could have the text messages marked as the next exhibit.
[1:52:49] That may be admitted.
[1:52:51] How often do you think you or do you remember going upstairs that day to interact with Lindsay and the kids?
[1:53:29] Once or twice.
[1:53:31] It was a busier day than usual.
[1:53:33] And when you did come up to interact with them, how was Lindsay's mood?
[1:53:44] She seemed happy.
[1:53:46] Happy?
[1:53:47] And how could you tell that?
[1:53:48] What was she doing?
[1:53:49] She was playing with the kids and she seemed in a good mood.
[1:53:56] At any point during that day when you came up or while she's texting you, did she tell you she was having suicidal thoughts?
[1:54:03] No.
[1:54:04] Did she tell you she was having thoughts of harming the kids?
[1:54:07] No.
[1:54:08] Did she ask for help or anything that caused concern?
[1:54:13] No.
[1:54:15] She was having one of her best days.
[1:54:16] One of her best days?
[1:54:17] No.
[1:54:24] I want to direct your attention to 4.53 p.m. that day.
[1:54:28] Did you receive a text from Lindsay about dinner?
[1:54:32] Yeah.
[1:54:33] And do you recall what it said?
[1:54:34] Something along the lines of, do you want to get takeout?
[1:54:37] I haven't planned anything.
[1:54:39] Do you recall it saying, any chance you want to do takeout from 3V?
[1:54:45] I didn't cook anything.
[1:54:46] It's been a long day.
[1:54:47] Yeah.
[1:54:48] Had you been to 3V restaurant previously?
[1:54:53] Yeah.
[1:54:54] Alone or with the family?
[1:54:56] With the family.
[1:54:57] And approximately how many times had you been there to eat?
[1:55:00] Probably three times.
[1:55:02] And so you had all gotten in the car and driven from your home to 3V restaurant in Plymouth approximately three times?
[1:55:13] Yeah.
[1:55:15] Sometimes we were already out somewhere, but yeah.
[1:55:17] Okay.
[1:55:18] But been there three times?
[1:55:19] Yeah.
[1:55:20] Had you ever done takeout from there before?
[1:55:21] No.
[1:55:22] Where would you typically do takeout when you were going to do takeout at home?
[1:55:26] The Chestnut Grill.
[1:55:27] I think another one was West End Grill.
[1:55:33] Were those closer than 3V to your home?
[1:55:35] Yeah.
[1:55:43] So Lindsay suggested 3V and you agreed, is that correct?
[1:55:46] Yeah.
[1:55:47] Did she send you another text at 4.56pm asking you to take a look at the menu?
[1:55:54] Yeah.
[1:55:55] And did you send a text at 5.06pm about Callum?
[1:56:03] Yeah, I asked if he had taken a nap.
[1:56:06] And did she respond?
[1:56:08] Yeah.
[1:56:09] And what was her response?
[1:56:10] That it was a shorter nap and he was awake.
[1:56:14] And at that time, did you also send a separate text asking what she was getting at 3V?
[1:56:21] Yeah.
[1:56:22] And what was her response?
[1:56:25] I don't remember what she ordered.
[1:56:29] Do you recall a Mediterranean Power Bowl?
[1:56:32] Yeah, that sounds right.
[1:56:33] And did she ask you what you were getting?
[1:56:41] Yeah.
[1:56:42] And at 5.08pm did you respond?
[1:56:44] Yeah.
[1:56:45] And what did you tell her?
[1:56:47] I forget what it was.
[1:56:50] Do you recall scallop and pork belly risotto?
[1:56:53] Yeah.
[1:56:54] That was it?
[1:56:55] Yeah.
[1:56:58] Who called in the order to 3V?
[1:56:59] Lindsay.
[1:57:01] Once the order was placed, what did you do?
[1:57:06] I came upstairs, I took Callum for a minute and I rocked him by my knees, kissed Cora on the head and I stood up right back.
[1:57:17] And what was Dawson doing when you were leaving?
[1:57:20] He was eating chicken nuggets on the couch.
[1:57:23] And do you recall if he was using a bowl or a plate?
[1:57:25] It was a bowl.
[1:57:26] Do you remember what the defendant, well first of all, where was the defendant seated when you left the house or was she seated?
[1:58:25] She was standing.
[1:58:27] And where was she?
[1:58:28] In the doorway of the living room.
[1:58:30] And was that the doorway by the front door or the doorway by the basement door?
[1:58:38] It was the doorway by the basement door.
[1:58:40] And did she have Callum or where was Callum?
[1:58:43] She had Callum.
[1:58:44] Okay.
[1:58:45] And what was her demeanor?
[1:58:46] Normal.
[1:58:48] Counselor, can I see you both sidebar here?
[1:58:54] In terms of the jury, we're going to break at this point for the day.
[2:00:05] All right?
[2:00:06] So what we're going to do is I'm going to excuse you until Wednesday morning.
[2:00:12] All right?
[2:00:13] So you don't have to come in here tomorrow.
[2:00:15] Just to remind you, I'm going to ask those same questions I asked you this morning, whether or not you did any research or you saw anything that would affect your ability to remain fair and impartial.
[2:00:28] You have to keep still keep an open mind.
[2:00:30] So don't do any research.
[2:00:32] I don't talk about this case with anyone.
[2:00:34] I don't go online.
[2:00:35] Look at anything.
[2:00:36] Don't take any road trips.
[2:00:39] And we will see you on Wednesday morning same with the same instructions that you get from the officers in regards to that.
[2:00:48] So again, thank you so much for your time and your effort.
[2:00:51] Uh, and I'll see you on Wednesday.
[2:00:53] Okay.
[2:00:55] All right.
[2:00:57] All right.
[2:00:59] So anything else we need to address before Wednesday?
[2:01:39] I'm not sure if you want to discuss the view.
[2:01:41] Oh, yeah.
[2:01:42] Let me see it.
[2:01:43] Council over here.
[2:04:30] Thank you everyone.
[2:04:31] Um, and so we're going to be recess on this matter until Wednesday at 9 a.m.
[2:04:36] So we'll be in recess.
[2:04:38] All right.
[2:04:40] All right.