FULL Charlie Kirk + Gavin Newsom VIRAL Interview

[0:00] Okay, everybody, you've been asking for the entire conversation with Gavin Newsom and myself. [0:05] I'm going to be giving commentary throughout this conversation about some of my thoughts, [0:09] but it is the entire thing that you'll be able to watch. Also, the full unedited, [0:13] let's just say with no commentary, is on Gavin Newsom's YouTube page, but I think you want to [0:18] stay right here. Make sure you guys hit subscribe on this extremely viral conversation that I had [0:24] with Gavin Newsom. Starts out with Gavin Newsom talking about how his son is a big fan of mine, [0:29] history of Turning Point USA, history of what we've done at Turning Point USA and our goals and [0:35] mission. By the way, anyone out there, you guys should get involved with Turning Point USA. You [0:38] should start a Turning Point USA chapter. You should get involved with Turning Point Action. [0:42] We are moving the dial. We are bringing this generation to the finish line to be a conservative [0:47] generation. So here it is, the beginning of my chat with Governor Gavin Newsom. By the way, [0:53] what brings you to California, your favorite state? It is my favorite state in the union. [0:59] You're doing such a great job here, by the way. No, I'm honored to be on the show. Thank you. [1:04] You were just down at USC? I was at USC yesterday, drew a big crowd. [1:08] By the way, I knew you were at USC early because my niece, who's graduating... [1:13] She was the one with the MAGA head on. She was... By the way, I do have to watch, [1:16] but she was down there and she was like... You never know. These kids are going to the right. [1:20] I'm aware. She said, this crowd's crazy. And the only reason she said it, she would have said it, [1:26] perhaps otherwise, but she knew you were coming on. The worst part though, Charlie, no BS, true story. [1:31] Literally last night, trying to put my son to bed. He's like, no, dad. I just... What time? What time is [1:36] Charlie going to be here? What time? And I'm like, dude, you're in school tomorrow. He's 13. He's like, no, [1:41] no. This morning wakes up at six up. Then he's like, I'm coming. I'm like, he literally would not leave the house. [1:47] Did you let him to take off school? No, he did. Of course not. He's not here for a good reason. [1:50] But the point is the point... Come on, you canceled school for like two years. Once one... [1:54] The point is the point, which is you are making a damn dent. Thank you. I'm kidding. [1:59] No, but I know. And I, but I appreciate that. I mean, it's the reason you're here, [2:02] because I think people need to understand your success, your influence, what you've been up to, [2:07] and the fact that you're on these college campus doors. And to your point, man, you just open up. [2:12] I mean, you're like, ask me anything. Anything. Challenge me. Challenge me, whatever. [2:17] When did this, when did this whole thing, when did you start putting this together? [2:20] I've been at this for 13 years and it's been a wild movement, really accelerated once [2:25] President Trump kind of came on the scene. Right around, I'd say 2021, we had a goal. [2:32] Could we move the youth vote 10 points over 10 years? And it was it literally you sat down [2:37] and put that numerical together? Yeah. Like, can we move it 10 points over 10 years-ish, [2:42] you know, approximate because our whole hypothesis was, and we, you know, we did this alongside [2:47] President Trump and his great team, was that this demographic is disproportionately to the Democrat [2:52] side. We believe Democrats were taking them for granted. We think that your side had no message [2:57] whatsoever and an ideological monopoly. We saw some of the fault lines there. And to President Trump's [3:03] credit, he also harmonized with the strategy by going on podcasting and using TikTok. But yeah, [3:08] I mean, we did it in four years, not 10, large in part, thanks to you guys. And we'll get to that [3:13] and I sincerely get to that because I want, you know, I want to stress test some of those fault lines [3:17] as it relates to the reality of our party and where we are today vis-a-vis your ascendancy, not just [3:22] individually as an organization. But where was that sort of moment for you? Because it's interesting. [3:26] I mean, you're such a young guy, so it's not a deep biography here. It's not like 20 years in the [3:31] wilderness writing his first book, getting a TV show that was canceled, coming back. It's more just this [3:37] immediacy of ascendancy. Was it, I mean, were you always, you're sort of born and bred with an [3:43] ideological mindset or were you more open-minded and you started to realize a lot of BS was out there? [3:49] Yeah. I've always been conservative, obviously grown in that over the last, you know, 10-ish years. [3:55] Was more libertarian, I'd say, in the first couple of years as to be expected as I got married and have [4:00] kids become more conservative. But no, look, just one of the things we saw in the last couple of years that [4:05] the Democrats completely ignored and your side was basically not acknowledging it was happening, [4:11] was the crisis that young people were experiencing. Right. That, I mean, just one, it's the first time [4:16] in America's history that a 30-year-old is going to have it worse off than their parents. Right. [4:20] It's a breakdown of the social compact. Right. They are the most alcohol addicted, [4:24] most drug addicted, most suicidal, most depressed, most medicated generation in history. Right. And the [4:29] message that was largely being fed to a lot of young people was lower your expectations. You're not going to [4:35] have the same American dream that that your parents would have. And we saw this as an opportunity, [4:39] especially with young men. And again, this got ridiculed a lot by the press that, oh, you know, [4:43] they're creating this manosphere thing. Look, they're half of the population and necessary for any [4:48] society and civilization to succeed, which is to have both strong men and strong women. Yeah. And we went [4:54] about that in a very unique and creative way. And again, the president became a cultural phenomenon, [5:01] where no matter what you threw at this guy, he rose above it. And you would even have to give him [5:05] credit. I mean, based on 700 years in federal prison, you know, states tried to kick him off [5:09] the ballot. I know you spoke out against it, but California did have a faction that tried to kick [5:13] him off the ballot. Right. That's right. And despite all of that, of course, being shot, [5:17] and that was kind of the crescendo of all of it, he kind of became this figure of an American [5:22] comeback story. Yeah. So he personified what a lot of young people, especially young men, [5:28] wanted back in their politics, which was an ascendant rebel attitude against [5:33] these institutions that have failed them so miserably. It's interesting. So what would, [5:36] and you keep saying we, which is interesting, and that's the organization that you created. [5:39] Yeah. We would be like conservative movement, MAGA. But yes, I have Turning Point USA, [5:44] Turning Point Action, Charlie Kirk show. Yeah. But when I'm saying we, I mean, [5:49] more specifically, kind of those of us that saw this political moment three or four years ago. [5:54] Right. But you were at this even before then. Correct. Yeah. [5:58] So when did you, when did you decide to sort of just shift your gear? I mean, [6:00] you were working for another Kirk and for his campaign, Mark Kirk. Yeah. Mark Kirk. So you [6:05] had a political, obviously you had strong political leanings or at least desire to sort of be in the [6:09] political sphere, but not in elected office necessarily. You just want to be behind the [6:13] scenes. Yeah. I mean, like the biography has been written about a million times, but I mean, didn't, [6:18] didn't go to college, wanted to go to West Point, didn't get in. I'm an entrepreneur. Yeah. Love it. [6:23] Started this organization and it became far more successful than I ever could have realized. [6:27] Um, and the, uh, the, um, kind of, as we started to grow the organization, I, I recognized that [6:35] there was a, a ideological imbalance on a lot of these college campuses. And we wanted to go about [6:40] trying to offer a counterpoint of conservative, you know, pro freedom, pro liberty, you know, [6:46] America first. And you saw the college campuses as sort of the underbelly of the opportunity, [6:51] or, or, or is it just more just experiential in terms of your own sort of animus towards. [6:56] Well, I mean, I mean, you have a sitting population about 20 million kids that are [7:00] there for four years. There's that. And also again, the, you had nowhere to go but up. I mean, [7:05] 70%, when we started in 2012, 75% of kids on college campuses would vote for Democrats. Yeah. [7:11] Now, fast forward to today, this last election cycle, Democrats lost the youth vote in Michigan, [7:16] nearly lost that in Wisconsin, nearly lost in Arizona. So our goal was, Hey, let's move at 10 points. [7:20] We moved at 13 points. And this is important for your audience to know and for Democrats to reckon [7:24] with, of which I see no signs that Democrats care at all, that they're losing the next generation. [7:29] We're drawing record crowds. Our ranks are expanding. The most support that President Trump [7:33] has is voters under 30, 60% of voters under 30 support President Trump. That's according to Rasmussen. [7:38] You might say that's a little rich. It might be, but it's directionally true. Yeah. And, and one of the [7:43] main reasons that this has all been happening is that baby boomers have actually seen their wealth [7:48] increased the last four years. They don't buy into this whole idea that our institutions are broken [7:53] or that they're in need of massive bottom up revolutionary change. And we see that actually [7:59] Kamala Harris did three points better with baby boomers than she did in 2020. Yeah. And the number [8:03] one story that, you know, James Carville, whoever would take seriously for some reason should have [8:07] been saying is like all Kamala Harris had to do was just do the same with younger voters that Joe Biden did [8:12] in 2020 and she would be president right now. And remind us what Joe Biden did in 2020. [8:16] It was 13 points better. Oh, in terms of just, again, this is kind of a combination of exit [8:20] polling. So it's really, it's a difficult science to pinpoint. So that goes back then. I mean, [8:26] to your point, in order to do that, you've got to stand for something. You've got to assert yourself. [8:30] You got to have a strategy and you got to implement it. You also have to not believe crazy stuff. [8:34] And not believe crazy. I mean, and so for you, I mean, it's interesting just, you know, this last week, [8:38] I guess you were at USC. You were at University of Florida at thousands and thousands [8:42] of folks. You get to your point, your crowds are growing. 2012, where were you? You were coming [8:46] in and people were, I mean, you do, you were taking, I mean, you were like getting threats. [8:51] I mean, you still get tons of threats, but it was, I mean, what was it like just to paint a picture of [8:57] you walking to a college campus? I had no money, no connections and no idea what I was doing. [9:01] And yeah, I mean, we were, I didn't even have a social media account. I mean, it was just the ultimate [9:06] startup. And what'd you just say? I'm available. And you started at this sort of debate. [9:09] No, it was, it was even more scrappy. I would literally show up to UW Madison with a card [9:14] table and a big cardboard sign saying, debate me, you know, like here's some provocative. [9:18] So you're 20 something years old. And I wouldn't even film it. I was, I was 18 or 19. [9:21] 18 or 19. And what, you just, what, by the way, where does that end? And sincerely, [9:25] to be able to debate anybody at any time, anywhere and in that environment, it's just, just, [9:29] I mean, just, you can, you can say it's just confidence or it's just absolute, I mean, [9:36] narcissism, what is it? I mean, just, or, or just. [9:38] I don't, I hope it's not the other, but no, I mean, I guess it would just be, [9:42] I mean, at the most charitable reading, it could be confidence. It also just be that [9:46] I, I wanted to try and challenge the predominant view. I always loved debate and disagreement. [9:53] I love the kind of spar. And yeah, I also find it to be exciting. And I wanted to try to, [9:58] you know, figure out where my idea is actually that good and to kind of draw. [10:02] Stress test. [10:02] Yeah, exactly. And are you 10X better than you were in 2012 at the format? [10:06] Probably. [10:06] Probably. And do you study it or you just participate? I mean, what, if you look at the [10:11] old great debates or you're reading debating books, you're watching sort of the best. [10:15] I mean, yeah. And I mean, less about debate. I mean, debating is a practice that can really [10:18] only be refined, you know, with lots of routine and reps and repetition, just more about studying, [10:25] you know, the great books, philosophy, right? All those. [10:28] And so you and you make a point prior to that. I mean, you to the point you never went to community [10:33] college and I didn't even graduate community college and you didn't even graduate community, [10:37] which is great. By the way, I was going to college in Marin. I got lucky, got a baseball coach that [10:42] called me and allowed me to get to a four year university. I was joking with you before we started [10:46] nine 60 SAT. I asked you about your SAT. I took the ACT, which proves two things how young you are. [10:53] OK, so the conversation continued about college. I wrote an entire book called The [10:58] College Scam. And I should have emphasized even more about how the UC system, which Governor [11:04] Newsom oversees, is a complete failure. Didn't quite have time to do that. But looking back, [11:10] hindsight is 2020. I should have interjected and talked about how broken the UC system is, [11:15] how much indoctrination is happening in the UC system. Also, Lomaz, who came on our program, [11:20] great guy, educated me about AB 101, about how kids are required to learn DEI and critical race [11:28] theory in California schools. I did a lot of research and prep in anticipation for this [11:33] conversation. I was unaware of that. So I probably should interjected that college tuition has [11:37] skyrocketed dramatically. And the Democrats and Gavin Newsom have done nothing to lower the cost of [11:43] college, nothing to increase career preparedness. In fact, more and more kids are not even learning [11:48] basic American history, basic civics or basic world history. We also talk a little bit more in this [11:54] segment about my political history and some of my political leanings continues. You grew up in [12:00] Illinois. I grew up in Illinois, which Midwest was traditionally more of an ACT. But this has been a [12:05] point of pride for you that you you didn't do a four year degree. Well, yeah, because I represent [12:09] most of the country is that actually still the majority of the country does not have a college [12:13] degree. And if I may, you know, bluntly critique the Democrat Party, you guys have become [12:19] so college credentialed and educated that you guys snobbishly look on the muscular class of this [12:24] country, the people that kept things afloat and running during COVID. And yeah, I mean, the majority [12:29] of the country didn't go to Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Stanford, Caltech or Cal Berkeley. Right. Thank you. [12:34] And the Republican Party has become far more representative of them, large in part, thanks to [12:39] Trump. But yeah. And look, I say it with some pride also because as an entrepreneur, I tried to build [12:45] something. Right. Not just seek a credential. Love that. And what? And there are what? 11 million [12:49] folks. There are 11 million jobs out there. You make this point all the time. Oh yeah. Open jobs that [12:53] don't require college. Do not require a college degree. So when you say, and it's interesting because [12:57] there's sort of that critique of the Democratic Party that we are captured by this sort of college elite. [13:03] In what respect? I mean, stress test that for a second. Allow me to. What specifically are [13:09] you referencing in that context? Well, your voters, your voters have become [13:13] nearly, I mean, the higher you go up the education ladder, the higher the correlation it is that you [13:18] vote for the Democrat Party. It's almost a one to one with PhD. It's like 75 percent for master's degrees [13:23] and it's 65 percent for four year college. Why do you think that's the case? What are the issues that [13:27] sort of are identified that align in that respect? The sloppy analysis is like, oh, they're smarter, [13:31] therefore they must be Democrats. Right. And I think that's silly and insane. Yeah. But [13:35] and insulting. I totally agree. The more the deeper and more profound analysis is that a lot of [13:41] ideological bubbles that exist on these college campuses, they are homogeneous, not heterodox when [13:46] it comes to what ideas are expressed. And then secondly, the value system that you leave on college [13:52] campuses is high trust of institutions. So the biggest divide in America is not right versus left. [13:57] It's whether or not you generally trust institutions or you don't trust institutions. And this has been [14:01] largely inverted the last 20 years. Right. So back in the early 2000s, Democrats were low trust of [14:05] institutions. Iraq war, anti-Bush, anti-NSA, anti-Patriot Act. And that's when you guys had a lot of [14:11] activist spark and energy that has been completely inverted. So the right is now low trust of [14:15] institutions where the left is high trust of institutions. We're the ones that challenge the [14:19] COVID vaccine. We're the ones that think that public health authorities might have lied to us during [14:23] COVID. Right. We're the ones that don't necessarily believe the government when it says that we should [14:26] keep on sending money to Ukraine. Again, that's an agenda. That's a general rule. There are some [14:30] exceptions to that. Right. But when you go to college, you are trained to trust the experts, [14:34] trust the scientists, trust the people that are leaders of authority. And the Democrat Party is [14:38] largely the gatekeepers of that kind of ideological and intellectual regime. It's interesting. And so [14:44] from your perspective, I mean, as you advocate for people to sort of open up a worldview that is life [14:50] without a four-year degree and all the opportunities that present themselves anew in that respect, [14:56] are you arguing for the disestablishment, the end of higher education? I think it's going to happen [15:03] no matter what. I mean, in 10 years, artificial intelligence is going to change everything. [15:06] Yeah. And I don't know what these four-year degrees are actually doing to prepare these kids for that. [15:10] But no, as far as like, I'm not, I mean, my advocating for the end of the pursuit of learning, [15:15] of course not. That's one of my big critiques is that at a lot of these schools, they're not pursuing [15:19] what is good, true, and beautiful. It's become the oppression Olympics and a weaponized complaint [15:24] seminar of people sitting in the circle and finding out who's been offended the most that day. [15:28] That's not doing anybody any good. No. And in fact, it creates a very weak political movement, [15:33] which I think plays into one of the reasons why we were able to steamroll you guys back in November, [15:37] is that once there's a little opposition against a group of people that have never actually been, [15:42] you know, had to build the muscle mass of a very difficult and unpredictable world, [15:48] whereas those of us that are conservatives, we're insulted all the time. So think about the [15:51] experience of a kid on a college campus. They say they're graded differently because of their views. [15:55] They may or may not be right. I think they are. But they're definitely in the ideological minority, [15:59] right? You wear a Trump hat on a college campus, at least until we came around. That was like a big [16:03] sign of cultural rebellion. So you have two choices. You can either stop fighting for what you believe in, [16:09] or you become really tough. Yeah. And you create that muscle that allows you to then carry and [16:15] shoulder a heavier burden. Right. And so just, and I don't want to belabor the issues of the [16:21] establishment plot called higher education, as some have not you referred to it, though, [16:25] maybe you align yourself. I wrote a whole book called The College Scan. So it's sort of, [16:30] in sort of stress testing that in the context of some would argue the contra argument is, you know, [16:36] a million dollars more in lifetime earnings, more likely to get married, less likely to get divorced, [16:41] more likely to be civically engaged and longer life, uh, spans with college degrees. And you would [16:47] say all of this is true. It's just let's not everyone that goes to college graduates, the [16:51] national graduation rate. 41% drop. Yeah. 41% drop out. Exactly right. Also half the kids that graduate [16:57] college will not even end up using their degree when it comes to the affiliated job. So the numbers are [17:02] true at the highest income. So about 10% of kids that go to college stretch out the averages to be [17:07] really, really high. Got it. And so, for example, you go to Caltech to study computer engineering and [17:11] applied AI. Next level. Man, you're crushing it, right? You go to Cal to go study North African [17:15] lesbian poetry. Yeah. Like... Is that an actual degree there? You tell me, Governor. I don't know. [17:20] I mean, we fucked it, but I'm not sure. That's one of the courses. See, the fact that you don't know? [17:24] Well, I don't know every single damn course. I know. It should be like, no way! But it's a, [17:29] if the fact it's a maybe, we got some problems. Well, the fact that, you know, a lot of people have [17:33] explored different disciplines. That's fine. It's just the taxpayers shouldn't have [17:36] to fund it. Well, yeah. I mean, increasingly, individuals are funding, as you know, as it [17:41] relates to the... Talk about the inversion of how we fund education. Look, I... And by the way, [17:46] just FYI, having just put together a career master plan, we had a master plan in the state [17:50] of California that created the UC systems, the CSU's, and the community college system [17:54] half a century ago. We've applied the same discipline to a career master plan in the state [17:59] of California. And so I'm completely aligned with you in terms of a focus and energy there [18:04] and looking at pre-apprentice apprenticeships, looking at not even apprenticeships in the [18:08] traditional sense, but valuing and highlighting and signaling the value of a life without a degree, [18:14] et cetera. So I'm not as far off on this as you are. That said, I've just, I've got to admire what [18:21] you've been able to do, not to weaponize, but to organize on these college campuses, a different [18:27] point of view. And again, let's talk about some of that. When you go to these college campuses, I love [18:31] watching your TikTok, which is next level. Clearly that's expressed by my 13-year-old son. [18:35] I want to meet this guy. He's coming to a Turning Point event this summer, [18:40] Tampa, Florida Student Action Summit. By the way, if you should be concerned. [18:45] But let me say, here is why I'm concerned, because you have expressed that I should be [18:50] concerned as a Democrat, that we're getting clobbered, that you've figured something out. [18:57] It's not me. The president first deserves the credit. But why? No, no, hold on. You were at [19:00] this before Trump was Trump. No, I know. But he was a Democrat back in 2011 and 12. [19:05] The president deserves huge credit. And I just have to say that as an obligatory thing, [19:09] because without him, our movement would be small. And you can appreciate that in politics. You have [19:13] to appreciate the person who is the catalyst. For you, that's what you sort of attached that [19:17] identity with him. It was also just the catalyst. It was a cultural moment that just opened us up. [19:21] But wait, but go back just on that, because I'm curious. In 2012, 13, 14, who were you identifying [19:26] with from the movement perspective? I mean, I was more like, as I mentioned, [19:29] Ron Paul, Rand Paul, libertarian. That's where the energy really was. Right. And then President [19:34] Trump comes on. Again, I was still very early in my political journey. So you're looking up a lot. [19:40] You know, who's the top voices? What do you believe? Why do you believe it? Yeah. So more [19:43] the libertarian frame was more. And I still have some libertarian leanings on something. And when Trump [19:47] came down that escalator, you're like, boom, that's my guy. Not day one. No, I was, I was [19:51] mystified at first. Why? Just saying this guy's, there's no chance. No, it's funny. I actually sent [19:55] out a tweet very like 2011, when I was in high school saying Trump should run for office. But I [19:59] was not mystified negatively. I was like, can this really happen? Can a guy that has no political [20:04] experience come down an escalator, challenge the whole establishment? Right. But you didn't expect [20:09] Donald Trump to come down the escalator and start talking about illegal aliens or, you know, [20:13] rapists and murders. I didn't disagree with it. But you didn't. Yeah. I can see that coming. [20:17] And again, this is well documented early in my journey. I underestimated the silent majority [20:22] that really wanted a rebalancing of the American political landscape. So interesting. [20:28] So now then Gavin Newsom asked me about the impact that turning point action made this last election [20:33] cycle. I bragged on a little bit, but just to reiterate a turning point action, we had over a thousand [20:37] people on the ground in Arizona, Wisconsin, chasing ballots. We were registering voters. In fact, [20:42] a poster from Signal Polling showed that when we visited college campuses, [20:47] students moved dramatically more in President Trump's direction versus campuses we did not. [20:52] So we have two arms. We have Turning Point USA, which is our high school and our college chapter [20:57] beast. Also Turning Point Academy, TPUSA Faith, Blexit, all the great work that we do on digital social [21:03] media. And you guys should get involved with Turning Point USA. And then Turning Point Action, [21:07] our 501c4 organization, all about how we are recruiting candidates, trying to make the Republican [21:11] party more conservative and more Republican, how we are chasing ballots. That is tpaction.com. [21:18] And they kind of harmonize together towards an overarching view to save Western civilization. [21:23] Now, is Governor Newsom being authentic here? I don't think so. I think that he was just trying to [21:30] bring the temperature of the conversation down. I always try to meet a guest at their frequency. [21:36] At the same time, you have to challenge that guest. You have to challenge them on what they believe [21:42] and why they believe it. So this is a little bit of a conversation about how we dominated this last [21:48] election cycle and what President Trump was able to do. I believe that Turning Point Action was one [21:54] of the most important outside groups. The ballots we chased, the ground game. And by the way, the media was [21:59] always like, oh, Charlie Kirk is going to ruin the ground game for the right. Turns out it wasn't [22:04] ruined. Turns out that we were more successful than ever before. Watch. So Trump then became the [22:10] catalyst. And so Turning Point became sort of next level. Your events start growing. You organize [22:15] around that. Turning Point Action becomes the political arm. So one is more educational, [22:20] one is more political. And we did ballot chasing in Arizona and Wisconsin. We were successful in that [22:27] alongside the Trump campaign. Arizona was the best performing swing state. And you're not modeling [22:31] yourself at anything because the flatness of the surrounding terrain, meaning we're the Democrats. [22:35] Are we looking at other organizing? We were modeling off of some of the ballot chasing, [22:40] ballot harvesting practices of the left. Yeah. But I mean, there's again, that's a that's a [22:46] self-limiting principle. You can't ballot chase if no one wants to vote for you. That's right. So, [22:51] I mean, you could have the best organizers in the world and you have 2000 people chasing ballots [22:55] in Arizona and you're running Kamala Harris in Arizona. What you actually was and what we ended [22:59] up tracking through our data is that the Democrats were chasing for us is that they were chasing low [23:05] propensity Hispanics, thinking that they were all for Kamala. And in fact, we were looking at the [23:09] precinct numbers of areas we didn't hit that moved like 20 points in Trump's direction. Like, well, [23:14] thank you very much, Kamala campaign for getting out and chasing our ballots. And, you know, for all this, [23:19] these Hispanic men that are mechanics, we appreciate it. [23:22] Thanks for making sure that we also won Dave McCormick's Senate seat. [23:26] Right. Right. [23:27] So, so again, chasing is only one part of the like Democrats, of course, are better organizers than [23:31] us. I mean, it's in your blood. Barack Obama was a community organizer. We make fun of it. It's who [23:36] you guys are. You guys have labor as a backbone, clipboard and tennis shoes. However, labor less [23:40] and less. We can talk about that for sure. In a moment. Yeah. [23:43] But what what we always felt that we had is we felt we had better ideas and a better message and all that. [23:48] The idea was, can we combo a little bit of organizing practices with a mass movement, [23:53] which is how you get a national popular vote victory and a overwhelming electoral landslide. [23:58] And so what do you see? Just, I mean, I sort of talked about the flatness of the surrounding [24:02] terrain, meaning the Democratic Party's party in some respect, as it relates to appreciate your point [24:08] about organizing, but also coercion versus, you know, sort of forcing people to vote versus an [24:14] enthusiasm and a desire to actually proactively get out. Eventually that has a backfiring effect, [24:18] too. I totally appreciate that. And so what what do you see right now? I mean, [24:22] you know, we, you, I think you talked about it the other day. A lot of folks were talking about [24:26] that Carville article where he talked about. Roll over and play dead. Roll over. But in essence, [24:31] he said that I think it was a strategic retreat, right? That we need to come back. Trump's starting to [24:35] implode. His numbers are getting soft. And this was even before the tariff issues, et cetera. And then [24:41] come back and strike when hot. And I immediately, no BS, thought about you, who's just 24-7 flooding [24:47] the zone back to my 13 year old, owning this space every day, getting a convert every day, picking up [24:52] one, two, 10,000 folks, continuing the momentum coming out of this damn election. And then I'm [24:58] thinking about, we're going to stand back and watch you run circles around us for six months, [25:04] the next two or three years waiting for the moment to finally strike. Strike struck me as not [25:10] necessarily the best advice. And it's not a knock on Carville, who I have deep respect for. What's [25:14] your thoughts? I don't, but that's okay. So I don't have to. He's read about one thing in the [25:18] last 40 years. It's economy stupid. And boy, he spent, he spent down that one line pretty amazingly. [25:23] But yeah, look, I'll say, I don't want to make this about Carville, but like, yeah, I hope you guys [25:26] retreat. You kind of like the advice. More for us. I mean, there's no opposition. There's no activist, [25:31] activist spark. If like, you guys are posting these cringe videos on social media. What are the videos? [25:36] What are the ones that are most cringy? I don't know. This like harmonious thing of like 22 senators [25:40] all saying the same thing. I didn't like that. Yeah. I didn't like it. Go ahead. Go do more of [25:44] that. What do you do? What do you do? Seriously, Charlie Kirk, give us some advice. Get better ideas, [25:48] Governor. Is it an example? I mean, like if you want to like, you have an opportunity to like, [25:52] you know, run to the middle and seize this mantle. Obviously, you're talking to me of all people. [25:55] Yeah. So Governor Newsom then asks my advice for the Democrat Party. What you are about to see [26:00] is the most viral part of our entire conversation. It's Governor Newsom that has pivoted away from the [26:05] consensus on the Democrat Party on a major issue. It is an 80 20 issue against the Democrats. [26:12] And it's a major debate. We believe we are on the right side of this debate, obviously. [26:17] And Governor Newsom is receiving huge backlash for this very tape. And I politely but very firmly [26:24] pushed Governor Newsom on why he would not speak out on this critically, I believe, civilizationally [26:30] defining issue. Here it is. The most viral element of this entire discussion. Watch. [26:36] It's like you right now should come out and be like, you know what? The young man who's about to [26:40] win the state championship in the long jump in female sports. Right. That's that. That shouldn't [26:44] happen. You as the governor should step out and say no. No. And I appreciate. But like, would you do [26:49] something like that? Would you say no men in female sports? Well, I think it's an issue of fairness. I [26:53] completely agree with you on that. It is an issue of fairness. So it's deeply. Would you speak out against this [26:57] young man, A.B. Hernandez, who right now is going to win the state championship in the long time? [27:02] I can see you wrestling with it. No, I'm not wrestling. I'm not relaxing with the fairness [27:06] issue. I totally agree with you. By the way, as someone with four kids, you got two daughters, [27:09] right? Two daughters and a wife that went, God forbid, to Stanford and played on the junior [27:15] national soccer team. And a guy who got into college only because I was left handed and could [27:20] throw a baseball a little bit or hit the hit the ball for a little bit. So I revere sports. And so the [27:26] issue of fairness is completely legit. And I saw that the last couple of years. Boy, did I saw [27:32] how you guys were able to weaponize that issue at another level. Not weaponized. Well, weaponized [27:37] may be pejorative. You're right. But you were able to shine a light on. Highlight it in a way that, [27:41] frankly, there are not that many. We're talking about, I think, the NC2A, what, 510,000? No, no. But I [27:47] just didn't realize. It's 890 medals and trophies that we know of in the last five years. That's a lot. [27:52] No. So I'm going to let me step back, say completely fair on the issue of fairness. [27:57] I completely agree. So that's easy to call out, the unfairness of that. There's also a humility [28:01] and a grace that these poor people are more likely to commit suicide, have anxiety and depression. [28:07] And the way that people talk down to vulnerable communities is an issue [28:11] that I have a hard time with as well. So both things I can hold in my hand. How can we address [28:17] this issue with the kind of decency that I think is inherent in you, but not always expressed on the [28:24] issue. No, I get it. At the same time, deal with the unfairness. [28:26] So you're asking, you asked a good faith question. Like, how do we Democrats get out of the wilderness? [28:30] Yeah. This one is an 80-20 issue. New York Times poll, right? That's not like- [28:33] No, I agree with you. We're getting crushed on. [28:35] Crushed. And you have an opportunity in the state to be like, look, [28:38] I have a heart for A.B. Hernandez. I have a heart for the San Jose volleyball player. [28:41] Yeah, yeah. Let's give them compassion. What's not fair is just for like a woman's, [28:45] entire woman's sports. I agree. You know, by the way, I agree with you. I agree with you. [28:49] And it's interesting. I stress tested this, Charlie. I was wondering, I said, you know, [28:53] in California, and I've been a leader in the LGBTQ places, as you know, back in 2004, [28:57] was marrying same-sex couples. And I know we have different opinion on marriage equality. [29:03] And so I've been at this for years and years. I take a bad seat to no one. But I was actually on [29:07] the issue of sports, which in the last few years has just exploded, trying to understand and [29:12] understand the 10 athletes in the NCAA, 510,000 athletes, but 10 athletes. And what, but how profound, [29:18] and even my own friend cohort, people saying, what the hell is going on? Why aren't you calling [29:23] this out? When did this happen? So in 2000, it turns out in 2014, years before I was governor, [29:29] there was a law established that established the legal principles that allow trans athletes [29:35] in women's sports. But the issue of fairness is completely legit. So I completely align with you. [29:40] And we've got to own that. We've got to acknowledge it. And I don't say that through the prism [29:44] of politics, because you disagree with same-sex marriage on principle. [29:49] And so I'm not, and by the way, I value the fact that you're not trying to walk away from that [29:54] principle because electorally, it's kind of, you're in the minority of that. [29:58] Yeah, in the minority. And I don't want to walk away from this principle because it's electoral, [30:02] but it is an issue of fairness. And I think Democrats have lost that. [30:05] No, I think that the, I wish that we would have done this podcast last week. [30:09] Last week. Well, because the U.S. Senate just vote, every Democrat voted against that bill. [30:14] And I'm just telling you, like, again, not, I'm not one to give Governor Newsom advice. [30:18] You guys are giving us an 80-20 issue that is just permeating the country. [30:23] It's an issue is such an affront to our senses. And you look at these videos, Governor, [30:26] because it's not just that it's okay. You read an article about it. [30:29] But these young men that are, you know, are in these sports, they're throwing around girls. [30:34] And it is an issue of fairness, but it goes to a broader arch narrative. [30:37] There you go. Which is important. No, and this, I want to hear this. [30:40] Which is this, that, that, that you, that the Democrats, [30:43] you guys will tend to view an incident through an oppressor, oppressed lens. [30:46] Yeah, it's your training. It comes from college. It comes from, [30:49] and we as conservatives tend to view things through right or wrong or just or unjust. [30:55] And the country is going far more in our direction and away from your direction, [30:59] because the problem with oppressor, oppressed is eventually you run out of oppressors [31:04] and you start creating them out of thin air. [31:06] Yeah. And you start trying to say, well, these people must be blamed for all of our problems. [31:10] Or that's where you get a lot of the, um, let's just say a lot of, for example, [31:15] there's a Wall Street Journal editorial, like when will the white men shut up or stop complaining? [31:19] That does no good for anybody. Right? [31:21] That's right. No. [31:21] So what, what I'm, what I'm getting at though, is it's a worldview difference. [31:24] Yeah. Right. [31:25] And so that's why the issue is so much more powerful. [31:29] Of course it is because, but it's also pattern recognition. [31:31] It's pattern recognition of a Democrat party that post 2020 decided to go all in. [31:35] We call it woke. You might call it, you know, justice or whatever it is, [31:39] but it's so outside of what we would consider traditional Americans norms and customs. [31:44] And again, so a, a, a Democrat strategist would say, oh, Charlie, you're weaponizing stuff. Not you, [31:50] but like, that's a typical, typical thing. But the most effective ad of this election cycle, [31:54] the most effective ad, you know what it is. [31:55] Yeah. They, they, they, and devastating. Trump's for you. She's for they, them. [31:59] And, and devastating. [32:01] Again, devastating. Devastating. [32:02] Devastating. And she didn't even react to it, which was even more. [32:05] And let's talk about why it was devastating. Number one, it was the trans issue that was just, [32:09] you know, monopolizing. And this was, this was even more challenging because it's issues of people [32:14] that are incarcerated. And illegal. And illegal, incarcerated individuals getting taxpayer funded. [32:20] Yes. And gender reassignment. And that is a 90, 10, not an 80, 20. [32:25] Right. And then she's like enthusiastically defending it, bragging, being like, I'm all for this. [32:30] So then the conversation shifted, as you're about to see all about wokeism. Now, [32:33] how do you define woke? Woke is calling something racist or unjust until you control it. [32:39] I probably should have chimed that in there with this chat with Governor Newsom. I actually think [32:43] I did pretty well here. We're talking about the border crisis, all of the crimes that BLM [32:48] allegedly committed. Also, Robin DiAngelo's white fragility. In California, they are the petri dish [32:56] of these very ideas. Again, I was able to get some of that into this conversation. I probably have, [33:01] probably could have done an even better job of listing up one, two, three, four, five examples. [33:06] But there's only so much you could prep on. We are prepped on homelessness and cost [33:10] of living and cost of housing. But understand, Gavin Newsom, he is the Anthony Fauci of CRT. [33:17] He is the person that has been pushing forward CRT and DEI for his entire career through California. [33:24] And California is the Wuhan Institute of Virology of wokeism from the UC system, Cal Berkeley, [33:30] Stanford. It all happens in California and it's being taught to kids on a daily basis. Watch. [33:37] For this. And then you had the video that was a validator. Brutal. [33:40] Yeah. And so tens of millions of brutal. And then the targeted focus from the from the Trump [33:46] campaign next level. And then Charlemagne comes out on Breakfast Club is like, this is insane. And [33:50] they ran it on NFL football. Brilliant. Yes. And so you're trying to reach men. It's not it's not like [33:56] it's not. It's a brilliant campaign commercial. It was brutal. It doesn't require. We were running around [34:00] just in the for the what the hell it's worth for you. She was AG at the time. She was addressing [34:05] the issue of a legal settlement. The courts were intervening. She was still bragging. [34:10] But she had the video where in the video she was obviously expressed support. And so she was being [34:18] a cheerleader for a very unpopular thing. It was and it was it was a great ad. And I say that lightly. [34:25] But this is important political. And I want to make sure it's not just that this was like the [34:29] Willie Horton ad of the 2024. It wasn't just like a Lee Atwater brilliance. It's that it reflected [34:35] truth that the voters felt. Yeah, I appreciate that. And that because because voters felt as if [34:40] their country was slipping away. Yeah. Now you have the Democrats have a choice. You could say to those [34:45] people, you're racist, you're Nazis, you're fascist, you're terrible. Or you can listen and be like, [34:49] why is it that a steel worker in Pittsburgh who's voted Democrat his entire life [34:53] Yeah. Is voting for Trump despite all of, you know, the stuff that's been thrown at him. [34:58] Yeah. And all the rhetoric that he's thrown at us. Yes. But it's it's it's a pattern. [35:05] And the trans thing is just one of those things. But the second element was also what we saw under [35:10] Joe Biden was if you came to the southern border from any country and you spoke the magic words, [35:15] you could go to any city you're choosing. Yeah. Right. CBP one border app. And all of a sudden [35:21] that steel worker in Pittsburgh is like, why am I paying all these taxes? I get it. [35:24] And I'm getting my I can't afford beer. I can't afford anything. And so I guess my question is to [35:30] you, what are the Democrats going to do about it? So I went and let me I'm going to answer that in [35:34] a second. But let me just let me let me pull a few more threads. You said 2020 is when you started to [35:41] seeing the Democrats sort of advance this notion of wokeism. It's when the woke the awokening [35:46] the awokening really started. What was it? You know what I'm talking about? No, but so is it [35:51] yes, we the Latinx stuff that by the way, not one person ever in my office has ever used the word [35:56] Latinx. So can we finally put that to bed? Yeah. But where did that even know more Latinx, [36:00] everybody? Well, I just didn't even know where it came from. I'm like, what are people talking about? [36:03] Was it the pronouns? By the way, once once you'd think California invented the frame of the [36:08] pronoun? Not literally what I had one meeting where people started going around the table. [36:13] Pronouns one. There's been a hell of a lot of days between 2020 and today and one meeting. [36:18] So it's not like this is I'm like, what the hell is? Why is this the biggest issue? [36:21] Well, in corporate America, it's everywhere. Okay. All right. [36:24] But it's in college campuses, it must call it. See, that's where you reside a lot in the college [36:28] camps. So you've got to defund these schools if they're doing the pronouns. Jesus. Okay. [36:33] And it's a number number three. What else? I mean, did you start it? What was also the big [36:38] wokeism thing? I mean, first of all, it wasn't just, it wasn't just the projection of certain [36:42] narratives, which we could obviously go through. Yeah. But it's when policy started to come forward. [36:46] And what kind of policy? Hiring practices. When it was, there was, we're not going to hire. [36:50] There was DEI decades ago. Yeah. I mean, it was called, it was just called outreach and inclusion. [36:55] But we saw mass adoption, what we saw. And not only that, we saw pledging of billions of dollars [37:00] of donations to racial justice from the biggest types of corporations imaginable. Fair point. [37:05] And it was sort of post George Floyd. That's what I'm saying. That's when, that's when you had, [37:09] you had a combustible. And was that wrong? I mean, to address the issue of racial, I mean, [37:13] there was, there's legitimate issues as it relates to past practices. What was insulting, [37:17] what was insulting to a lot of people is number one, where's the money going? Because the top [37:21] premier BLM charity ended up being a racket. Yeah. Right. With Patrice Cullors, like where'd that [37:25] hundred million bucks go? So all of a sudden we learned that and all these pledges of corporate [37:29] dollars were going to this woman that's like hiring her like brother for personal security. Right. [37:34] And that like a lot of, and you would even agree like that, that became like the poster child. [37:38] But number two, which I think was most important was that it was, it elevated then this scholarly [37:46] community that was otherwise fringe, like Robin DiAngelo and other people and her book, [37:50] White Fragility, literally the entire premise of her book is that white people need to stop [37:55] being so fragile about race. You need to sit down and shut up and hear how racist you are. [37:59] And she was brought on tours to corporations across the country. And by the way, just so you [38:03] understand, this was a phenomenon over months and months and it didn't quite catch up in turn, [38:07] in time for the 2020 election. I do believe that if you guys would have been a little less insane [38:11] on crime in the summer of 20, you would have completely clobbered us in November of 20. [38:15] It was like the, it was the riots that even made 2020 close. Right. Right. But then it was the [38:20] extension of all of the, what we would call woke stuff. Right. Defund police. Yeah. I mean, [38:26] Minneapolis literally had to hold a special vote saying like, should we still have a police [38:30] department? Yeah, that's, I mean, I mean, that's, that was lunacy. But governor, I don't want to, [38:35] by the way, I, by the way, you're talking to someone who's never supported the defund. [38:39] No, I'm not saying, I know, but I was explicit, but. So then I asked governor Newsom about the prop 16 [38:43] debate and the public school debate. He was on the side of what's called prop 16 in 2020, which would [38:49] have had legal racial discrimination. He's like, oh, I got to go look at my notes. No, no, no, [38:54] you know what it is. You know what it was. You pushed this deeply unpopular, anti-white, [38:59] anti-Asian legal racial discrimination that lost at the polls. And again, AB 101 has critical race [39:05] theory in the schools of California. We also talk about how the Democrats have become defenders of [39:10] the corrupt establishment, FBI, EPA, critical race theory. Watch. But also, you did support prop 16 in [39:17] 2020, which would have legalized racial prejudice, right? Prop 16 literally would. [39:23] I have to go back to my prop 13. No, no, no. You know, you're smart. [39:26] No, no, no. Prop 16. I taught 960 SAT, so a little humility. [39:29] Hold on. No, you're the governor of the largest state in the country. No, no, no. I saw your debate [39:33] against DeSantis. You're good at this stuff. You know what I'm talking about. Prop 16 would have had [39:36] legalized racial prejudice, which would, and it got defeated by 16 points despite all the institutions. [39:42] So you're asking me, what did wokeism look like? When California, when all the institutions, [39:46] yourself included, with all due respect, embraced this insane ballot measure, guess what? Even the [39:52] people of California didn't want racial discrimination. Well, I remember California [39:55] since 1996 has had prop 209. So the affirmative action case came from the Supreme Court as relates to [40:00] institutions of higher learning had no impact on California. So we've actually, it's an interesting, [40:05] California also codified as a constitutional amendment, marriage between a man and a woman. [40:11] And, and that was in the 2000s. So California runs an interesting sort of contract trends. [40:15] I found it to be illuminating though, that despite, I mean, there was really like no opposition. It [40:19] was like a couple hundred like Asian activists. Honestly, I have to go back to it. But I just want [40:23] to say, you asked the question, what did wokeism look like? Prop 16 in California that would have had [40:28] legalized racial discrimination. That was not a major, there was a broader national narrative. [40:33] I'm just bringing it home to you because there were hundreds of such ballot referendums, right? [40:37] Yeah. Okay. There was, you know, city council meetings where they said the white [40:40] people aren't allowed here, right? And what ended up- That's not good. [40:42] No, it's not good. And so what ends up happening is a broader question of sensible, [40:49] not racist suburban moms that are like, wait a second, I have a eight year old white son. [40:54] Are you trying to say he's a racist? Yeah. And it creates a backlash that then bubbles up, right? [41:00] I appreciate the perspective. And I appreciate not just the perspective. I totally appreciate what you [41:05] just said as an explicit statement of fact, to make an eight year old feel like they're racist is [41:11] absurd and outrageous. But governor, with all the respect that's happening right now in California [41:14] public schools. And I'm not trying to drill you on your, I'm just being honest, like you could say [41:19] that, but like, maybe you should like convene a special session and say like, no more, you know, [41:25] race-based teaching against white people in the schools of California or Asians. I'm just saying [41:30] though, that like, this is not a conjecture. It's not a hypothetical. It is embedded into the DNA of [41:35] the Democrat party. Yeah. Okay. I appreciate it. I mean, that whole, how the CRT stuff. [41:39] Yes. I mean, where I, I was trying to find it. Where is it? You think we have CRT and K through 12 [41:44] education? Well, you have the principles of it. I mean, of course, critical theory is like a PhD level [41:48] course taught by Derek Bell and Kimberly Crenshaw. But the same way that you have advanced [41:52] physics and the theories of physics in eighth grade, it's like saying like, you don't have [41:56] the elements of it. But it's, but for example, I mean, it's very simple. But at least that explains [42:01] why, because I'm just, I was trying to find it. We know of over at least 50 schools in California [42:06] that do things called privilege walks. Do you know what privilege walks are? What are privilege [42:08] walks? Where they make kids walk ahead based on certain questions and they try to make a point [42:13] saying, well, you see, the white people are ahead. They must have white privilege. Okay. I get it. [42:17] Yeah, no. See, like, all right. I got to get back to, back into the classroom. No, you got to get here. [42:21] I got 6 million kids. You got to get your educations. [42:24] 1,050 school districts, the largest school system. You got a lot going on. I know that. [42:28] No, but no excuse, because these things are important. And by the way, it's the reason [42:31] we're having this conversation. I, I, this is very illuminating and helpful to me to understand [42:36] sort of the animus. What is it about, you know, that animus, I joke with people. I said, what, [42:40] you know, you guys don't like DEI, CRT, ESG, DOJ, FBI, IRS. It's all the acronyms. [42:46] It's all the damn three letter acronyms. What the hell's the issue? What's going on with all that? [42:51] You know, I, I can, I, you missed some. Which ones? Which others? What have I missed? [42:55] EPA? Of course, EPA, the employment prevention agency. Oh, okay. Yeah. You're about to get that. [43:00] 65%. That's what he's calling for. Yeah. I mean, look, I mean, the, [43:05] so it's, it's not just acronyms that we dislike for the record, but it's, it's what feels like that [43:10] sometimes. I mean, and now this is the second most viral part of our conversation where governor [43:15] Newsom thought he had me bringing up book banning. I should have probably said this in the discussion, [43:20] but saying that the Bible is pornographic is so insulting to faithful Christians across the country. [43:26] Governor Newsom thinks like, oh, I can get you on book banning. This is how every conservative, [43:32] every Republican should talk about the banning of books, that every single conservative Republican [43:38] should talk about how the books that very well might be banned in our schools. What are they exactly? [43:44] This is how you should stand up for it, for decency, for truth, and for our children. [43:48] Watch. How about the book ban stuff on a serious note? 4,200, 4,240 books or titles, [43:55] libraries and schools are banned in 2023. Um, is that not as a, as a conservative? [44:00] Well, it depends. I mean, like, I think we can both agree pornography should not be taught to [44:04] nine-year-olds. Fair point. Okay. So that's a book ban. All right. Well, there were some other [44:07] books. No, no, no, no, no, no. That was the Moms for Liberty contention. Time out. [44:11] Like, I agree on Bill O'Reilly. The Moms for Liberty movement that you made a big thing of [44:15] was just no porn to 10-year-olds. Yeah. We agree. So those bans should be, [44:18] those books should be banned. Well, okay. So what we should do right now is every [44:21] California school that has porn in their library should be kicked out. Does that include the Bible? [44:27] Well, I wouldn't say the Song of Solomon is porn. No, but I mean, some have made that point. [44:31] Is that a fair point or is it offensive? I don't think that's fair at all. And as a man of faith, [44:35] and I deeply admire that about you. Thank you. Yes. But no, I mean, again, the Song of Solomon is [44:40] rather risque, but what we're talking about in these books is not just the words. It's also [44:44] the images. And again, your audience can look at the images themselves. It's highly graphic, [44:48] but again, it seems a banning binge. I mean, at next level, sort of cancel culture. [44:53] But why do you think moms are doing that? Do you think it's because they want to have mind control [44:57] or do you think that they have come across incident of incident of highly provocative material? [45:02] I love moms, but this moms, I mean, we don't have to get into Moms for Liberty. [45:06] I mean, you brought up the book bans, though. Deeply organized for a larger agenda, [45:11] but that's my humble opinion. No, but let me just, you know, kind of complete the point [45:16] is that it's easy to just call it kind of a book ban, but when you actually have to read some of [45:20] these books, it will take your breath away of some of this stuff, right? You're like, okay, [45:23] you know, we're teaching a ten-year-old how to put a condom on. I just have a problem with, [45:27] you know, who the hell is going to decide that government? I mean, Doron DeSantis is going to decide [45:30] what I can read or say in the boardroom in the classroom. This is the exercise of politics, [45:34] though. The exercise of politics is the highest form of community because it blends morality [45:38] and sociability. So what we do is we have discussion and elections and we have boards [45:42] and commissions, right? And we as a people say, okay, no porn for ten-year-olds. Yeah. [45:47] And that's politics, right? I mean, I'm not saying that there's like some sort of... [45:50] We got a stress test whether the Bible's included in that. I don't even want to go [45:53] forward anymore on this. No, it's tough, but this becomes a dialectic. [45:58] I have heard a lot. I've never heard... That's interesting though. [46:01] No, I mean, it's a provocative... I don't mean to offend. Again, I deeply don't mean to offend. [46:05] By the way, Father Kaz would be offended with me. If you think the Bible's pornographic, [46:09] we have a whole... No, but there's just... [46:12] Most of these books are, quote unquote, not pornographic. There's sections that are... [46:15] Some kind of... Of images that are very violated to young kids. [46:18] Some, we would agree on that. I don't think 4,000 books. [46:21] If you want to learn, Governor, and I'm happy that there is a movement of moms that is not... [46:26] That's growing where they feel as if our kids are being hypersexualized. [46:30] And I agree with them that they are being... That they have to hear topics... [46:33] Social media. [46:34] Well, both in the social media and the classroom. [46:36] In particular. [46:37] And then Governor Newsom talks all about this assembly bill about the most radical elements [46:43] in our country when it comes to parental notification and kids' well-being and child's... [46:49] Children's well-being. Watch this. [46:51] You signed a law where school districts can't even tell parents if their kids are trans. [46:55] Not true. [46:56] Factually not true. [46:57] Okay, then... [46:58] No, they can. They just can't get fired for not doing that. [47:01] And it wasn't just trans. [47:02] They can't get fired for not doing that. [47:03] There was... The law was explicit. [47:05] Said you can't be fired for not snitching on a kid. [47:11] Not just for being trans, for being gay. [47:13] And my point is, how in the hell are you telling... [47:15] But shouldn't the parents know? [47:16] They have every... [47:17] But he's telling parents snitching? [47:18] No. The teachers themselves have the right... [47:22] The law doesn't... [47:23] They can do that. [47:24] They can do that. [47:25] We're not saying you can't do that. [47:26] We're saying you shouldn't be fired if you choose not to say, [47:29] Johnny was talking about, you know, liking some other boy or something. [47:33] That's a charitable reading. [47:34] The other way... [47:34] It's not charitable. [47:35] It's actually the freedom not to snitch. [47:37] Let me tell you the other way to say this. [47:38] That a teacher, of course, should be fired if you don't notify a parent of what's happening to their kid. [47:45] Of course they should be terminated for that. [47:47] If it's on health and safety, shouldn't they be teaching? [47:49] I want these kids to teach. [47:50] I want these teachers to teach. [47:51] And by the way, if they feel like the health or safety of the kid, they have a responsibility [47:55] to communicate that they still can. [47:56] By the way, we're not selling these teachers. [47:58] They can't. [47:59] We're saying they won't be fired if they don't look around and say in the recess, [48:04] there were two boys. [48:04] Why didn't you see that? [48:05] You're fired. [48:06] You should have said something because they're talking about two different things. [48:10] But there, of course, should be a penalty measure, whether it be termination or whatever, [48:14] if a teacher withholds information from a parent. [48:16] Because what you're saying is that there's no way to hold them accountable. [48:19] So you're saying you're accountable to what, though? [48:21] The parents, hold on. [48:21] Accountable to two kids talking about the fact that they're talking about subject matter. [48:26] All of a sudden now we have to have teachers policing speech or conversations. [48:30] I think you would even agree, Governor, that is an over extreme example. [48:33] What we're talking about. [48:34] No, but the extreme example. [48:35] This was a solution in search of a problem. [48:37] What we're talking about is if, which happens a lot, unfortunately, is if a young girl [48:41] says that, hey, I want to transition, and the teacher accommodates and affirms it, [48:46] and the parent doesn't even know. [48:47] I have met parents like that in this state. [48:48] I heard Trump and then they come back and they're a boy or something. [48:51] There's so much extreme work in this space. [48:52] I will say, and we don't have to, you know, we don't have to wrestle too much on this topic, [48:56] but you guys will lose on these topics, and you might disagree. [48:58] But again, but I'm one of those guys, and Charlie, I appreciate, and I, by the way, [49:02] appreciate the civility which we're engaged in this conversation sincerely. [49:05] I don't mind losing. [49:07] Sometimes you lose on principle. [49:09] It's one of those things. [49:10] Everything's not political is the point. [49:12] And sometimes the principle, and by the way, [49:14] mad respect for you, abortion and same-sex marriage, you feel the same way. [49:17] The American people don't agree with me. [49:19] Exactly. [49:19] And I admire that on principle. [49:21] But for me, it's not just political. [49:23] And I appreciate you making that point. [49:25] I deeply am mindful of the politics of this, which are very unhelpful. [49:30] Personally, it's unhelpful. [49:32] More broadly, professionally, the Democratic Party and our brand. [49:35] And one of the reasons, to your point, the Democratic Party brand has just been crushed. [49:40] And your self-awareness is helpful to know, because it is deeply unpopular. [49:46] And I think that is an ascendant political force that is not going away. [49:51] No, I appreciate it. [49:52] But I also appreciate you hold deeply unpopular beliefs as well. [49:55] Of course I do. [49:56] But you're not running for office. [49:58] I'm not going to run for president as a moderate. [49:59] What are you, when are you running for office? [50:01] I'm not running for anything. [50:02] I saw a poll in Arizona that you were like one or two. [50:05] You have the highest name ID and a favorability. [50:08] When are you running? [50:08] It's being, is that what this is all about? [50:10] No, it's definitely not about it. [50:11] By the way, you're not even old enough to be president. [50:12] You're only 31 years old. [50:13] You got to be, I mean, I'm not running for anything. [50:16] You're going to run against AOC. [50:17] I'm running for, you know, head of, you know, most popular TikToker. [50:21] But no, I'm not running for anything. [50:23] So then Governor Newsom asked me about running for office. [50:26] I'm not running for office. [50:27] Do you guys think I should run for office? [50:29] You guys should put in the comments of whether or not you guys think I should run for office. [50:31] I think I'm more effective doing what I'm doing here, reaching millions of people, [50:37] starting a mass movement, running Turning Point USA. [50:39] So go in the comments and let me know what you think. [50:41] Watch. [50:41] By the way, should we ban TikTok? [50:43] Are you? [50:43] No, we shouldn't. [50:44] I used to say that. [50:45] And then I started. [50:45] Why did you change your position or Trump told you to? [50:49] Well, no, it definitely wasn't. [50:49] Trump, I sent out a tweet and I'm perfectly honest about this. [50:53] I think you'd respect this is that I was so mad at them because they would ban me all the time. [50:56] And I sent out a tweet saying like, hey, if you guys are really for free speech [51:00] as a creator, like, let's see it. [51:02] Get a call from TikTok. [51:03] A couple hours later, we're going to show you that we're for free speech. [51:05] We're going to show you the power of the platform. [51:07] Right. [51:07] And I saw real changes where our campus interactions went from being banned [51:12] to now well over two and a half billion views on TikTok. [51:15] And so I wouldn't say expedient. [51:17] I'd say impact. [51:18] And also, they now have changed some of their speech codes. [51:22] They've changed some of their. [51:24] Hey, enough for your son. [51:26] Your son finds my content somehow. [51:29] Look, I used TikTok. [51:30] I was just out there. [51:30] I wasn't out there to try to champion the ban. [51:32] It's a reversal. [51:33] I just love this conversion. [51:34] It's a hell of a conversion. [51:35] Yeah, hey, I'm open about it. [51:37] I appreciate it. [51:39] And then French laundry comes up. [51:41] There's a major platform difference between Democrats and Republicans. [51:45] Long-form media versus legacy media. [51:48] Politics is now culture, and we dominate the new media landscape. [51:51] I do not think Democrats are able to exist in a long-form podcasting environment. [51:56] They can't defend their ideas. [51:58] As soon as you turn off the teleprompter, they freak out. [52:00] We are ascendant. [52:02] Those of us that believe in America, believe in freedom, believe in liberty, believe in [52:06] borders, want a strong country, want men to be men and women to be women. [52:10] We are the dominant political force because we could defend our ideas without someone whispering [52:15] in our ear, giving us prepared notes. [52:18] And Governor Newsom seemed a little uncomfortable throughout this. [52:20] So what, just back to the Democratic Party, we talk about just that we're not [52:24] aligned with them. [52:24] They don't trust us. [52:25] I think we have 31 favorability, 57% on favorability. [52:28] I sit that high, Governor. [52:29] And by the, thank you, 31% favorability is not good enough. [52:32] So, I mean, what, back to, back to just the basics. [52:35] So you, you talked about wokeism broadly defined. [52:38] We talked about some specific examples of that. [52:41] Uh, you, you began on the transport, which is interesting. [52:43] And I, I respect and appreciate. [52:45] I want you to speak out against that one, Governor. [52:46] I appreciate why we just did with all of you. [52:49] I mean, I, and I've been, by the way, I've been saying that. [52:51] So interestingly, it gets picked up. [52:53] And that maybe goes to the, the question. [52:56] We live in these filter bubbles. [52:58] We're talking to ourselves. [53:00] We're in these sort of, yeah, it's Newsmax, [53:02] One American News, Fox. [53:03] And then it gets into all the stuff that you guys are doing [53:06] and everybody else. [53:06] And meanwhile, I'm, I'm safe over here at MSNBC and CNN, [53:11] reading the New York Times, feeling really great about things [53:14] and having a nice glass of Chardonnay, [53:15] listening to Rachel Maddow, uh, self-medicating [53:18] and just going, yes, yes, yes. [53:19] At the French Laundry, of course. [53:20] Yeah, at the French, that's, of course, [53:21] the only place I eat. [53:22] And, uh, you know. [53:23] You get me a table, I'm struggling. [53:24] Great takeout and the whole thing. [53:26] Well, I should have been at Applebee's. [53:27] I get it. Applebee's America. [53:28] I read the books. [53:29] Come on, man. [53:30] Okay, come on. [53:30] In-N-Out Burger, be with the people. [53:31] Jesus Christ. [53:32] And here's a guy that makes 25 times more money than I do. [53:35] Uh, and he's sitting here with a, with a jacket [53:38] and I'm sitting here with a, with a senior t-shirt. [53:39] That's right, and you control the fifth largest economy [53:41] on the planet. [53:41] Unbelievable. [53:42] We don't control. [53:42] The people control the fifth largest economy. [53:44] And by the way, proud that you're, [53:46] no, it's a 3.89 trillion dollar economy. [53:47] With a declining population. [53:49] No, the population went up last year. [53:51] The population went up last year. [53:52] Yeah, because of the illegal border. [53:53] We'll talk about that later. [53:54] I got, I got a whole thing. [53:54] Oh, come on. [53:55] That's just factually untrue in that respect. [53:56] 290,000 net last year. [53:58] By the way, 394 National Guard [54:00] that I put down at the border six years ago. [54:03] You should be championing that as governor of California. [54:05] 394. [54:06] 394 we have down at the border. [54:07] We've been focused on Fennel. [54:09] I've been working on this. [54:10] But anyway, you're, you're getting somewhere complimentary. [54:11] But state, no, yeah, I was going back to. [54:13] You're talking about your, uh, [54:15] you're whining and dying at French Laundry. [54:16] Yes, I was talking about the importance of, of, of never. [54:21] Uh, well, I can't help you with a reservation. [54:23] I get such a kick out of this whole shtick. [54:25] I got to be honest. [54:26] It's very nice. [54:27] By the way, we couldn't have this conversation [54:29] with that conversation. [54:30] Dumbest bonehead move my life. [54:32] Okay. [54:32] Own it, move on, grow up. [54:34] Uh, and I'm trying to. [54:35] Is that you talking to yourself? [54:36] That's you talking to myself. [54:37] I'm just, look, I'm staring. [54:39] I'm looking right at you in the eyes as I say that. [54:41] Just to get your reaction. [54:42] That said, um, we, we are, [54:46] we're losing. [54:46] We have this. [54:47] I feel it's asymmet, uh, [54:49] the asymmetry of Donald Trump and Elon Musk sitting on tweets [54:53] or you doing social media. [54:55] It's a fair question. [54:55] And then me doing a three minute hit, [54:58] um, at three o'clock in the afternoon on, on CNN. [55:01] I mean, how the hell will we compete? [55:03] We're toast. [55:04] Well, I mean, I'm part of it and credit to you [55:06] for doing long form podcasting, [55:08] because long form podcasting does penetrate different audiences. [55:11] Right. [55:12] And our show does very well. [55:13] But part of the problem of the Democrat party [55:17] that for the health of the country would be great to change [55:19] is that Democrats cannot survive in long form podcasting environments. [55:23] Why? [55:23] It's too unscripted. [55:25] It's too masculine, honestly. [55:26] And the Democrat party's become too feminine. [55:28] What is masculine about a podcast? [55:29] Honestly, because I get the whole manosphere. [55:31] This bro podcast stuff. [55:31] To go into the wilderness with no rules and duel it out [55:34] and see who's better or who's stronger. [55:36] No, seriously. [55:36] I mean, like what? [55:37] Democrats can. [55:38] What? [55:38] No, I mean, like we don't do it. [55:39] You're right. [55:40] For whatever reason, don't do it. [55:41] You can laugh. [55:42] But like who in the Democrat party or not? [55:44] You're right. [55:44] We'll go. [55:45] I mean, maybe Bernie Sanders, but he only. [55:47] RFK when he was a Democrat. [55:48] Bobby, who's now HHS. [55:50] But like there's something to be said [55:51] that if you want to earn the respect of forgotten America, [55:54] you have to show them that you can intellectually joust [55:58] with no script, no hard breaks, no producers in the ears, [56:02] no teleprompters. [56:03] Love it. [56:03] That's where new media is going. [56:04] Now, I will only challenge one thing you say. [56:07] I am reaching new audiences. [56:08] I'm not talking to my my bubble because our content is so appealing. [56:12] It goes in a decentralized way. [56:14] And it's not just political. [56:15] No, it's not political. [56:17] But like, again, our conversation here is going to go far and wide. [56:20] Right. [56:20] A lot of people are going to see it. [56:21] A lot of people are going to consume it because it's also politics. [56:24] Entertainment have begun to overlap. [56:27] Right. [56:27] Right. [56:28] And the old adage is, well, politics is downstream from culture. [56:31] I think politics and culture are indecipherable from one another. [56:34] Now, Donald Trump became a cultural phenomenon. [56:36] Right. [56:37] You go, you go in to, you know, inner city Compton, [56:40] you'll see guys with Trump shirts with, you know, the hand up, [56:43] you know, fight, fight, fight. [56:44] Yeah. [56:44] So what Democrats are doing is you're still playing in a very old, [56:48] hypersanitized media environment. [56:49] Right. [56:50] And my advice is you got to go where it's unpredictable, [56:52] where it's treacherous, where it's dangerous. [56:54] Now, I would make a more provocative argument [56:57] that you wouldn't necessarily resonate with, [56:59] which is that, that you guys have not, [57:01] you guys have not built the intellectual muscle over 30 years [57:05] because you all agree with each other all the time. [57:07] Well, it's not like conservatives are massively disagreeing. [57:10] Well, but hold on, we have, hold on this. [57:11] I just. [57:11] Trump has completely collapsed the conservative movement. [57:14] I would push back a little bit. [57:15] I would disagree. [57:16] We have a robust discussion. [57:18] Well, it seems like Congress is really doing great oversight [57:21] of Trump right now. [57:22] I mean, that's. [57:22] They're holding him to account. [57:23] That's an important but separate issue. [57:25] I just want to finish the point and we could talk about Congress, [57:27] which is that in the Republican Party, [57:30] we have immense and vocal and public spats all the time. [57:34] I think you would agree. [57:35] We fight about foreign policy. [57:37] Look at Ukraine, right? [57:38] We're talking about primary challenging some of these senators [57:40] that were meeting Zelensky last week. [57:42] The Democrat Party would never do that. [57:44] Now, I think that is a symptom of an underlying thing. [57:46] We are. [57:47] We're constantly trying to find the approximation of what truth is. [57:51] We're trying to use dialogue towards, hey, who's right? [57:55] What do you believe? [57:56] Why do you believe it? [57:56] And it's by no coincidence that out of the long form podcasting genres, [58:02] the top ten, eight of them are conservative or center right. [58:05] Rogan, Megyn Kelly, Theo Vaughn, the Paul brothers, our program, Ben Shapiro, [58:10] Matt Walsh. [58:11] There's a singular one on the left, which is Pod Save America, [58:14] which is just like a bunch of Obama bros agreeing with each other for 90 minutes [58:18] and saying that we're not very smart and, you know, and so anyway. [58:22] But I appreciate no, but it's objective truth, right? [58:25] I mean, you just dominate this media. [58:28] I mean, it's medium. [58:29] But what? [58:29] So what? [58:30] I mean, everything Democrats do and everything how Democrats operate [58:34] is from the mindset of oppressor versus oppressed, not what is fair or just. [58:39] You see, we as conservatives talk about what is right or wrong, [58:43] not just who the biggest victim is. [58:45] Every way the Democrats look at issues and you can see Gavin Newsom has been programmed [58:50] to believe this throughout his life is to look at where is the victim in the situation? [58:55] We look at what is moral or immoral, right or wrong, fair or unfair, just or unjust. [59:01] We then talk about how I do not drink. [59:04] He seemed very surprised by this, considering he owns a very nice vineyard in Napa Valley. [59:09] So you can see I kind of slipped that in there. [59:11] He asks what Democrats I like. [59:13] I want you to guess before you watch this, how I answer what Democrats I actually like. [59:17] But there is this unhealthy purification process that Democrats go through, [59:24] where they kick any nonbelievers out of their ranks. [59:27] Democrats are pushing people out of their own party. [59:30] And we are far more ideologically healthy and diverse than the Democrat Party. [59:36] You see, for us and in our party, we believe the best ideas win. [59:40] Democrats believe the most oppressed wins. And what I should have probably brought up [59:45] and looking back hindsight again, I thought I did pretty well. [59:47] But looking back, I should have said, Governor, you guys had to nominate Kamala Harris under these [59:54] rules. You could not jump over Kamala Harris because she was a black woman. [1:00:01] Since she was a black woman, you were not able to jump over her. [1:00:05] Otherwise, they could have got to a better candidate. [1:00:07] And deep down, I think Gavin Newsom knows that he has no place in the Democrat Party as a white man. [1:00:12] Deep down, they hate him. His whole party is configured against him. [1:00:15] But it's interesting. You're making a deeper that we're not. [1:00:18] And you didn't say it again in a maligning way, but that we're just not capable because we're not [1:00:26] hardwired. Well, I think it's to be able to participate. [1:00:29] Well, I think that it's two things. Number one, your upbringing in college campuses does not foster [1:00:34] debate like it used to. It just doesn't. It's that it's about silencing the critic and the elevation [1:00:40] of the victim. So you do not have the practice of robust having to defend your position. It's very [1:00:46] monolithic. It's very centralized. It's very top down. It's quasi authoritarian. And then secondly, [1:00:53] I would just say that the philosophy on the worldview, as I mentioned earlier, that you guys have adopted [1:00:58] is that thou which is oppressed will get the most points. You guys don't have thou that has the best [1:01:03] idea wins. And because of that, you guys have an elevation of like, hey, we're going to eventually [1:01:10] we're just going to have a small subset of a minoritarian hectoring hall monitor assistant [1:01:15] principal vibe of people telling you that you're not allowed to say these words and you can't say that. [1:01:20] And we we call that political correctness, which in and of itself is hyper authoritarian. [1:01:24] So if you seek to understand why young men are rebelling, right, it's like, no, I'm not going to [1:01:29] go along with this anymore. Like maybe I'm going to say for an example, maybe I'm going to send out [1:01:33] a stupid tweet when I'm 17 years old. When I'm when I'm 26, I shouldn't have to get fired because [1:01:37] of that. Right. 100 percent. I've never liked this cancel. I mean, I'm glad to hear you say that. [1:01:41] I remember back when I was lieutenant governor, I think Bill Maher was trying to get on the UC campus [1:01:46] or something. They were saying Bill Maher was too conservative voice. And we called that out. [1:01:49] That's insane. At the time, it completely insane. But it's equally insane that people are boycotting [1:01:53] Bud Light. I mean, how is that not called out? I don't drink. But yeah, I mean, like you don't [1:01:58] drink at all. I mean, no. By the way, I'm just that's interesting. Yeah. You don't never have. [1:02:02] I have. Yeah. A couple of years. What happened? A couple of years ago you stopped. [1:02:05] I stopped. Why'd you stop? I just wanted to be more successful. [1:02:09] I love that. What were you drinking? Napa Valley wine. Oh, Jesus Christ. Here we go. Right. [1:02:15] Are we going to get a little my lord and savior in vain? By the way, forgive me. I deeply respect. [1:02:20] And by the way, do respect your faith. I'm serious. It's like the fourth time. [1:02:26] No, but no, I don't drink. But yeah, I mean, look, but first of all, we have the agency to boycott [1:02:30] whatever we want, but understand. No, but I mean, in that cancel culture in reverse, I mean, [1:02:34] a lot of cancel culture. Hold on. It's something completely different. First of all, cancel culture is [1:02:37] someone in power using their power to cancel somebody that doesn't have power. That's cancel culture. [1:02:41] Time out. Hold on. But Bud Light was people that don't have a lot of power. Consumers using their [1:02:45] agency to say, no, powerful corporation. I'm not going to voluntarily associate with you. [1:02:49] But cancel culture has always been the incumbent person with power, a governor, a principal, a boss, [1:02:55] a CEO, a corporate board going against the weaker. What we did with Bud Light was just a bunch [1:02:59] of decentralized folks doing a good old fashioned boycott. Completely different. But a boycott is not. [1:03:05] I mean, well, there's boycotting speakers. There's boycotting. That is a derivative of cancel. [1:03:10] But the culmination of cancel culture is somebody who has a power position wrongly [1:03:15] canceling. I appreciate that perspective. So let's go back to Democrats being totally incompetent, [1:03:19] incapable of spending 30, let alone 45 to an hour having a conversation broadly on podcasts. [1:03:25] I said you're becoming the exception. [1:03:30] The process of becoming. You're not there yet. [1:03:32] It's like becoming Gavin, like becoming Michelle, right? [1:03:34] That's how we're coming. But so what, I mean, who do you, are the Democrats you do, [1:03:38] forget literally any Democrats you admire out there right now? I mean, even beyond just the [1:03:44] podcast thing that you look and say, Jesus, there's hope. Forgive me. There's hope. We can edit [1:03:52] that out. No, I don't care. You can keep it in. I used to have respect for Bernie on his anti-war [1:03:57] stance and now he's a complete neocon. I was going to ask you about Bernie. [1:03:59] He's a complete neocon now. So he's, he's not there. Democrats I respect. Oh yeah. I mean, [1:04:06] Bobby Kennedy, I respect. Tulsi Gabbard. Why are you laughing? Why are you smiling? [1:04:11] Because like they're on our team now because you guys kicked out like your best people. [1:04:15] It's like the people that were, this is a great point though, Governor, is that [1:04:18] Bobby Kennedy was a heterodox opinion on a thing that a lot of people were concerned about. Get him [1:04:22] out. He's an anti-vaxxer. Tulsi Gabbard, who is an anti-war. Get her out. She's a Russian agent. [1:04:27] You guys see how you have an unhealthy purification process where eventually [1:04:31] you're left with just a 31% approval rating and a bunch of people that are talking to each other. [1:04:36] And meanwhile, we're the ones that have Democrats in our cabinet winning the electoral majority vote [1:04:41] because there needs to be said we're, if Democrats are serious about being a majority party ever again, [1:04:47] when somebody has a disagreement, for example, if there's a pro-life Democrat, is there a place for a [1:04:52] pro-life Democrat in the Democrat party? I mean, there should be. Okay. [1:04:54] On principle, there should be. Absolutely. That's a big step. That's a deeply held personal [1:04:58] point of view. God bless. I agree. Not every party or Democrat official would say that, right? [1:05:03] And so certain states have different opinions on that. And I say this as one of the biggest [1:05:07] champions for reproductive freedom on the planet. Yeah. Trust me. I know that I know. But like the, [1:05:13] the issue though, is that that is like a, that is a one-stop purity test. Like we have pro-choice [1:05:17] Republicans. There was a sister-soldier moment. Susan Collins is a pro-choice Republican. [1:05:20] No. And Trump himself decided to pivot a little bit. Yeah. He's more pro-choice than I am. Like [1:05:25] for sure. But what I'm saying though, is what you see in the Republican party is the best, [1:05:28] in my opinion, culmination of modern politics and doesn't get appreciated. Look at that ideological [1:05:33] diversity. We have people that, you know, geez, they want to go to war with every country that says [1:05:37] something bad against us. And then we have people that are far more dovish, you know, like Rand Paul. [1:05:42] But that, that is a better, more, dare I say, diverse picture. You could say diversity is our strength. [1:05:47] Oh, look at you. Look at Charlie Kirk. Diversity is strength. I mean, I want to end the podcast [1:05:52] right there, but first. I said you could say. You could say. I want to, do we have ultimate [1:05:57] editing here? I'm going to. No, you better not edit any of this for the record. We're not, [1:06:00] we're not going to edit any of this. Um, and, and, and by the way, uh, uh, no reason to edit any of [1:06:05] this, uh, despite my, uh, use of inappropriate words, uh, here and there. Here's the final advice [1:06:11] that I gave to Gavin Newsom. Not my best advice as you'll see. I only gave him my B or C advice. [1:06:16] I asked him if he's working with ice. This is just so fraudulent, by the way. I probably should [1:06:19] have called out this out even more. It's just so nonsensical. He's not doing anything on the [1:06:23] southern border. He's not assisting with detainers. There were 7,000 people in California [1:06:28] that had ice detainers on them that were not touched at all. Also talking about the quality [1:06:32] of life. Everyone here in this audience, your quality of life has slipped dramatically in recent [1:06:38] years. Thanks to big government Democrats, just like Gavin Newsom. Thanks to the one party rule [1:06:43] of states like California. California has the highest housing prices, the most homelessness, [1:06:48] the, well, the second highest housing price is the highest cost of living. [1:06:52] And what are they doing about it? Blaming Republicans. The quality of life has slipped [1:06:56] dramatically in the great state of California. And Gavin Newsom is solely responsible for the [1:07:01] downfall of San Francisco and the downfall of California. Watch. Let me ask you just on the, [1:07:07] on the democratic party side, forgive me. I do want to just look where, [1:07:12] so our effort to get out of the wilderness, you know, on the woke culture wars, on some [1:07:18] of these issues, on providing a more diverse campus, dare I say, of opinion and pulling people in. [1:07:26] But what, what else do you, I mean, do you feel this party, I mean, you point that the Republican [1:07:31] party is now going to be the dominant and Senate party. I'm not saying that I don't, I don't have [1:07:35] that kind of pride. I'm not saying, I'm saying right now we are the ascendant worldview, but we could [1:07:39] screw this up easily. And we might be right. You have to have the humility to say that. But like, [1:07:43] as of the recording of this podcast, we have a majority approval rating, won the electoral, [1:07:46] I mean, all that stuff. Right. And in both houses, I mean, [1:07:48] we could screw it up and you guys could adjust or adapt. [1:07:50] Okay. So this was what, this was my, this was the, the question that I'm not articulating very [1:07:55] effectively, but I remember so many of the similar contours of this conversation we were having in 2004 [1:08:00] and 2005. You just got shellacked both houses of Congress, Republicans, you had a Republican [1:08:05] president that won the popular vote, the last Republican president to win the popular vote. [1:08:09] And two years later, you had Speaker Nancy Pelosi. Four years later, you had 53% of the vote, [1:08:15] the highest since 19, what, I don't know, 64. It's conceivable that could happen now. I don't [1:08:20] say that's impossible. So, so what if, if you were in my camp, what is that? Oh, I'm not going to give [1:08:26] you my best advice. I'll give you like, I'll give you like the B or C level advice. Okay. Give me, [1:08:30] give me the B plus advice. All right. Cause the secret stuff, I'm not sharing. No, [1:08:33] well, when you've got, what is your secret stuff? Why don't we go right to there? That's secret. [1:08:36] For what is it? Is it technical or is it? Oh, it's all that I could design your [1:08:39] presidential run in a way where you would win. I'm not talking about a president. We're not [1:08:42] talking about a presidential run. This is not about that. No, no, no, no. You've got, [1:08:44] by the way, you guys are so obsessed with the idea that every goddamn thing I do, I said it again. [1:08:50] I said it again. Cause I needed your emotional reaction that everything I do has, is framed in that [1:08:57] context. It's, it's a talk about Trump derangement syndrome. I think you got one with, [1:09:01] no with California. First of all, it's not, it's not new to have someone from California run for [1:09:06] the presidency. We just beat someone from California presidency. California is to politics [1:09:11] to the Democrat party as Florida is our party. You guys have the speaker, the former speaker of [1:09:15] the house, Nancy Pelosi, right? You have, you have a lot of the ascendant political voices come out of [1:09:19] the state. So it's not derangement syndrome. It's no, it's knowing your enemy and looking at the horizon [1:09:24] and understanding what's coming. But anyway, if I were to give you or somebody advice, I'll give you the B and C [1:09:28] level stuff, which is very simple. You have to go to war with your own party on three major things. [1:09:33] You got to say, we are not going to do this illegal immigration thing anymore, which includes [1:09:37] like, are you going to work with ICE? We do work with ICE. I mean, so let me, by the way, [1:09:41] I want to make sure people can do this. We've, we have been, uh, I, in fact, directly, we actually [1:09:47] put out the, the, the data. I was, I actually reached out to the administration saying, are you not aware [1:09:52] that California coordinates and cooperates with all CDCR releases over 10,000 since I've been governor? [1:09:57] Explain the sanctuary state thing then. What is the difference? You've got the statewide sanctuary [1:10:01] state and you've got local sanctuary cities. Which Governor Brown signed in, not you. [1:10:03] Yeah. Which in the statewide framework allows us to work as it relates to issues of criminals [1:10:09] and coordinating the release of criminals from our federal or from our state prison populate, [1:10:15] prison system. We coordinate with ICE on the deportation. We've done that over 10,000 times [1:10:21] since I've been governor. We're not denying access. We're not denying coordination. [1:10:27] I'm glad to hear that. That's why I asked. For criminals. Sanctuary policy was never. [1:10:30] I would, I would say if you break into the country illegally in eight USC, 1325 is a breaking of [1:10:35] federal law, right? I get it. It's civil, not criminal, but it is a federal law. [1:10:38] I get it. So I'm saying, so by the way, if you, if you're serious about moderating the party, [1:10:41] eight USC, one, three, two, five, vast majority Americans. So let me just go through it. [1:10:44] No, no, no. I get it. [1:10:45] Majority Americans want mass deportations. It's just the thing. [1:10:47] Until, until they don't. Well, okay. [1:10:49] That's my humble opinion until they don't. If someone has been here 10 years paying taxes, [1:10:54] I don't buy it. But at the moment, you're right. [1:10:56] You might be right. [1:10:57] The number's bared up. [1:10:58] We'll see. Number two, we mentioned the trans stuff. It's an affront to all of our senses. [1:11:01] It's out of control. [1:11:03] You don't believe in it fundamentally. It's not just sports. It's not stuff. You just don't. [1:11:07] I mean, get back to live and let live. [1:11:09] Charlie Kirk's views are separate than the political advice I'm getting. [1:11:11] But if you'd like me to, we could do a whole. [1:11:13] No, I get it. [1:11:13] Charlie Kirk asked me anything and you could show up to Cal State Northridge on Thursday. [1:11:16] I've heard I've got 25 TikToks of what your feelings are. [1:11:20] So actually that was a question I didn't even ask. [1:11:22] No, no. If you want it, it's fine. [1:11:24] I just don't think that's the best use of our time. [1:11:25] But on the political advice is that Americans increasingly believe that their good heartedness [1:11:30] and charitable nature towards the LGBT issue has on overblown, especially with youth sports, [1:11:36] youth curriculum, and the chemical castration of our kids when it comes to this medical therapy. [1:11:40] And you seem that you want to really, I encourage you, Governor, to learn about some of the butchery [1:11:45] under the guise of health care that is happening under chemical castration in this state and in [1:11:49] other states. We don't spend a lot of time on that, but the American people are overwhelmingly [1:11:52] against it. They're overwhelming against it. [1:11:54] No, I think we have to be more sensitized to that. [1:11:58] Youth should be off limits. I think that's the political direction things are going. [1:12:02] You might be right on deportations. I know I'm right on this. [1:12:06] I know that this issue is picking up steam. There is no good counter to it. [1:12:09] The cast report, the United Kingdom cast report, the NHS came out and said there's no good reason [1:12:14] to ever operate surgically on a young person. Puberty is not the problem. Puberty is the solution. [1:12:18] I think I encourage you. I'm not an expert in this, but I appreciate your broader. [1:12:22] But I'm saying politically, it's a super turbocharged issue that is kicking the tail of Democrats. [1:12:26] The third one, though, is quality of life. Is quality of life. [1:12:29] I agree with you on this one, especially. [1:12:30] But like, I mean, look, I know you do. [1:12:32] Homeless and encampments out of control, unacceptable. [1:12:35] Issues of just quality of life as rights to crime. [1:12:37] You know where I'm going with this. [1:12:38] Why is it you were able to clean it up for Xi Jinping? [1:12:40] Oh, that was you guys. [1:12:42] That was the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life. [1:12:43] By the way, you guys weaponized that. [1:12:45] I saw that on 25 things. [1:12:46] It was the most ridiculous. [1:12:47] The weaponized. [1:12:48] That was, you know what? [1:12:49] I will happily, happily revert back to your counterpoint as [1:12:54] weaponized. [1:12:55] In this case, weaponized. [1:12:57] In this case, weaponized. [1:12:58] Can I get the Xi Jinping streets back? [1:13:00] It was ridiculous. Give me a break. [1:13:02] All due respect, I saw a beautiful picture of San Francisco [1:13:04] that looked like Singapore. [1:13:05] By the way. [1:13:06] And then Xi Jinping leaves and the Walking Dead come back. [1:13:08] By the way, it was AIPAC. [1:13:09] You had dozens and dozens of foreign leaders. [1:13:12] And California is not San Francisco. [1:13:14] But I'm the governor of California, not the mayor of California. [1:13:16] I'm not the mayor of San Francisco. [1:13:17] You were the mayor. [1:13:18] But I just want to understand. [1:13:19] Why is it that we had to clean it up 20 years ago? [1:13:21] But you have to admit, it's emblematic of something that if [1:13:23] enough important people show up, it can get clean. [1:13:25] So why not make it clean all the time? [1:13:27] That's exactly my, by the way, that's my energy. [1:13:29] I think you've missed a lot of my press conferences. [1:13:31] I've been saying that to all these mayors. [1:13:33] But state vision is realized at the local level. [1:13:36] It's about accountability, transparency. [1:13:37] If you can't clean up the streets, we're going to redirect the money. [1:13:40] I hope the new mayor can do that, right? [1:13:41] We have been crystal clear. [1:13:42] He seems to be more moderate than the other. [1:13:43] Great progress is being made. [1:13:44] By the way, what's going on with homelessness in all these red states? [1:13:47] You're seeing it through the roof. [1:13:48] Went up 18% across the country. [1:13:50] I'm not here defending every red state of what we're doing, right? [1:13:52] But I'm making the point. [1:13:53] This is hardly unique to California. [1:13:54] I'm sure there's a lot of governors and mayors. [1:13:56] Quality life is huge, right? [1:13:57] Yeah. [1:13:57] And the housing crisis, of course, came up. [1:13:59] What are we going to do to help young people buy more homes? [1:14:03] Do we actually agree on something? [1:14:04] This actually was the few moments where we agreed on something. [1:14:08] Gavin Newsom and I find common ground. [1:14:11] And then like, look, the number one thing, which I know you're going to agree with, [1:14:14] and I'm sure you'll have a super slick response, right? [1:14:16] That's about half true. [1:14:17] Yeah. [1:14:18] But which is about three quarters. [1:14:20] The cost of housing. [1:14:21] Average home in California, $850,000. [1:14:23] I like what you said about BlackRock. [1:14:25] So, yeah, I mean, I. [1:14:26] But that was interesting to me. [1:14:28] I think that is. [1:14:28] But again, that's not a majority of house purchasing. [1:14:30] About one in four houses are bought by private equity. [1:14:33] Would you agree to say that BlackRock should not be able to own homes in California? [1:14:36] I think. [1:14:37] And then turning around and renting them. [1:14:38] It's insane, right? [1:14:39] This is a huge problem across the country. [1:14:41] You should propose a bill in the California state house. [1:14:43] We've had one. [1:14:44] It didn't get very far last year. [1:14:45] And there's more conversations. [1:14:46] A $10 trillion fund shouldn't be able to come in and buy homes. [1:14:48] But it's not just BlackRock specifically. [1:14:50] I mean, this is what's happening in this space. [1:14:51] In this space. [1:14:52] Mass asset managers that have a billion dollars, [1:14:55] $50 billion asset under management are now competing against our college grad from [1:15:00] by the way, Cal State Fullerton. [1:15:02] I love that you say this. [1:15:03] By the way, just in that spirit, don't you agree one of the doge [1:15:05] things should be dealing with the one and a half billion dollars of subsidies on carried interest? [1:15:09] Oh, I carried interest. [1:15:11] I think it's a huge problem. [1:15:11] And by the way, you know, President Trump has proposed in his tax bill to get rid of. [1:15:14] He proposes it all the time, but it doesn't actually have a good effect. [1:15:17] I mean, Joe Biden didn't get rid of carried interest. [1:15:19] That is the holy grail of private equity. [1:15:22] You know that, right? [1:15:23] Trust me, I get it. [1:15:24] I mean, I get it. [1:15:25] But let's go back to housing. [1:15:25] And by the way, you're going to have a revolt in Palo Alto if you get rid of carried [1:15:29] interest. [1:15:29] Yeah, I should be careful on that one. [1:15:31] They're going to light torches and like run to Sacramento. [1:15:35] On the issue of housing, you couldn't be more right. [1:15:37] It's the original sin in the state of California, affordability, period, full stop. [1:15:40] And it has more more impact on the issue of homelessness than any other issue because [1:15:45] of the cost of living. [1:15:46] By the way, we had one hundred eighty eight thousand people in 2005, 20 years ago, [1:15:51] on the streets and homeless and our point in time count. [1:15:56] So this is hardly unique. [1:15:57] No, I'm not saying it's modern. [1:15:59] But help me understand a long term issue. [1:16:01] And housing is at the core. [1:16:02] We agree on the problem. [1:16:04] But help me understand this. [1:16:05] You guys control the House. [1:16:06] The Senate will suit majorities. [1:16:07] You control everything. [1:16:08] Why can't you fix it? [1:16:10] You said you were going to build three and a half million homes. [1:16:11] You're building like one hundred eleven thousand a year. [1:16:13] Well, there was something called a pandemic [1:16:15] that may have had a little impact. [1:16:17] Issues of interest rates may have had a little impact on housing production. [1:16:20] You guys are still outpacing every other state. [1:16:22] But hold on, hold on. [1:16:23] Except Hawaii. [1:16:24] 42 CEQA reform bills, created a housing accountability unit. [1:16:27] Has it worked? [1:16:28] And we're making big progress. [1:16:30] I mean, I don't see any of it. [1:16:32] We've been pounding in this space. [1:16:34] There's no administration in modern California history that's done more to reform the housing [1:16:38] space from the regulatory space as it relates to the issue of housing. [1:16:42] The biggest challenge right now is NIMBYism. [1:16:44] The biggest challenge we have is local planning and zoning. [1:16:47] And that's why we've been very aggressive. [1:16:48] NIMBY is a disaster. [1:16:49] We agree on that. [1:16:49] I mean, it's... [1:16:50] And so I have a YIMBY mindset on all this stuff. [1:16:53] I'm in the front lines of this. [1:16:54] Your friends, and they are your friends down in Huntington Beach that I'm suing. [1:16:58] Which ones? [1:16:58] They're conservators or the city council? [1:17:00] The whole crew. [1:17:01] They love you. [1:17:01] All the MAGA faithful. [1:17:03] They're 99.9%. [1:17:04] Who's living who in rent free in whose head? [1:17:06] Is that one of those smaller towns? [1:17:08] We're suing them because of their rank NIMBYism. [1:17:11] We have been very aggressive in this space. [1:17:13] I'm waiting for one big thing we all are waiting for. [1:17:15] And I think it had a biggest, [1:17:16] perhaps one of the biggest impacts that we don't focus on enough in the last election. [1:17:20] That was interest rates. [1:17:21] As interest rates, that environment... [1:17:23] I believe they will come down. [1:17:24] And you're going to see an explosion of housing production. [1:17:27] Well, hold on. [1:17:27] I'm very confident in that in California. [1:17:29] Yeah, but you also might see an increase in housing prices, of course. [1:17:31] Well, to me, it's... [1:17:33] It's all about supply, right? [1:17:33] Econ 101. [1:17:34] Supply. [1:17:35] Yeah, it's just the biggest issue. [1:17:36] It's been our biggest... [1:17:37] California and Hawaii have the two highest housing prices in the country. [1:17:40] Hawaii has an obvious excuse. [1:17:41] They only have so much land. [1:17:42] No, it's... [1:17:42] You guys don't have a lack of land. [1:17:43] By the way, I haven't been governor for a century, okay? [1:17:46] I mean, Jesus. [1:17:47] No, I... [1:17:47] I mean, we've been six... [1:17:48] Hold on, but... [1:17:49] Six years. [1:17:49] And by the way, no excuse. [1:17:50] I get it. [1:17:51] You can't take credit for all the assets. [1:17:53] You know, number one AI, number one nanotechnology... [1:17:55] Well, the AI is more... [1:17:56] But you also got to take responsibility for some of the problems. [1:17:58] Yeah, it's more novel. [1:17:59] I can take a little more credit on the generative AI. [1:18:01] 32 of the top 50 market companies. [1:18:02] But I'm saying you have to balance both the credit and the... [1:18:05] I get it. [1:18:05] And the blame. [1:18:06] No, I appreciate it. [1:18:07] But quality of life, right? [1:18:08] So we can both... [1:18:09] 100% agree. [1:18:09] So when I talk to a college kid, one of the reasons they saw Trump as a vessel [1:18:13] for a better life is that under President Trump, those first four years, [1:18:18] we saw a material increase in their livelihood, wages, easier to buy a home, four years. [1:18:24] Four years, like just the facts are, the average wage to be able to own a [1:18:28] home in L.A. to be able to own a home. [1:18:30] Oh, yeah. [1:18:30] Insane. [1:18:31] It used to be $75,000 a year. [1:18:33] Now it's $145,000 a year. [1:18:34] So, I mean, what it does, and this is, again, it's creating this kind of belief system of [1:18:40] Russian serfs of a generation that will never have the material American dream that their parents [1:18:44] once enjoyed. [1:18:45] Yeah, no. [1:18:45] And look, I think it's a full circle on this conversation where you began by identifying... [1:18:50] We'll circle back. [1:18:51] And then finally, Gavin Newsom's meeting with Trump. [1:18:53] Again, the fact that he would kind of still cover with Joe Biden just goes to show you [1:18:58] should not trust anything this guy says. [1:19:00] It's like, oh, you know, Biden had great mental competency. [1:19:03] Watch. [1:19:03] No, but it's a point. [1:19:05] The point you're making, Scott Galloway and others have been making as it relates to this [1:19:09] generational theft. [1:19:09] Yes. [1:19:10] He's spot on on this. [1:19:11] And I think there's there's so much validity to you recognizing that problem and how one [1:19:16] so diagnosing is one thing. [1:19:17] But and President Trump as well. [1:19:18] He deserves credit. [1:19:19] And I mean, I think, yeah, he's he's I'm going to get you to say the words. [1:19:25] I did. [1:19:26] By the way, I just spent almost 90 minutes with him in the Oval Office a couple of weeks [1:19:30] ago. [1:19:30] Isn't he the greatest? [1:19:31] And, you know, I think it was the first Democrat invited in and Trump 2.0. [1:19:35] I mean, you got to admit there's something magical that guy. [1:19:37] I mean, Joe Biden, Joe Biden couldn't do five minutes. [1:19:39] By the way, I did almost 90 minutes with with Biden right before he left in the Oval. [1:19:43] Do you remember? [1:19:44] By the way, that'd be a hell of a book. [1:19:46] 90, you know, 180 minutes. [1:19:47] I should do a book of the two of the bookmark. [1:19:49] Was he sent to expert? [1:19:51] By the way, he 100 percent was. [1:19:52] Oh, come on. [1:19:53] Just a fact. [1:19:54] It's a it's just you can do you think there was any mental. [1:19:56] There's no no seriously. [1:19:58] You went around the country being like, he's I'll take him at 100. [1:20:00] There was one exception. [1:20:02] And it was that. [1:20:03] No, no, no. [1:20:04] Before the debate, I was about to say, [1:20:06] and that was the big fundraiser down in L.A. [1:20:08] where I saw a different the Clooney and Clooney called Jack Black. [1:20:12] Right. [1:20:12] But it was it was not that was. [1:20:15] But, you know, so much of that focus was, all right, he just got back from Europe. [1:20:18] But that was the one one time we don't need to get it. [1:20:21] But I'm not. [1:20:22] But I just say, Governor, I'm just on that one topic we saw with our own eyes for three years. [1:20:26] And the media told us, no, no, he's perfectly fine. [1:20:29] Yeah. [1:20:29] And then we saw the debate. [1:20:30] And look, it makes us not trust our leaders when we say everyone is perfectly fine. [1:20:35] It's the emperor is fine. [1:20:36] Have you seen any mental decline in Donald Trump? [1:20:38] No, I see that more sharp acute. [1:20:40] Do you tell me you sat with him in the Oval Office for 90 minutes? [1:20:43] The guy has a memory of an elephant. [1:20:44] I'm asking. [1:20:45] I mean, I know. [1:20:46] I'm just I'm just asking your personal expectations. [1:20:47] No, of course not. [1:20:48] How often do you talk to Trump, by the way? [1:20:50] Once or twice a week. [1:20:52] Does he check in for advice or is it you give him advice? [1:20:54] A little bit of both. [1:20:54] It depends if there's something I want to talk to him about. [1:20:56] But I mean, he's just the machine. [1:20:58] He'll take every call. [1:20:59] You got to give him credit for that. [1:20:59] Isn't it amazing? [1:21:00] He'll take, right? [1:21:01] Every call thing's big, right? [1:21:02] It's amazing. [1:21:02] And he'll listen to every idea. [1:21:04] He'll joust it out. [1:21:05] He'll talk about it. [1:21:06] He always goes back to what did I promise the voters? [1:21:08] What was the last idea you gave him? [1:21:10] The last idea I gave him? [1:21:11] Yeah, it was like, Mr. President, here's what you need. [1:21:14] Or here's the thought. [1:21:15] Here's my observation. [1:21:16] Actually, it was interesting. [1:21:17] I said, I don't think Canada should be the 51st state. [1:21:20] We already have California and we have enough libs in our country. [1:21:23] Jesus, on that, Charlie Kirk. [1:21:25] Thou shall not take the Lord's name in vain. [1:21:27] No, on that, I just want to thank you. [1:21:30] Governor, this is Gavin Newsom. [1:21:31] This has been a Gavin Newsom production. [1:21:35] Thank you. [1:21:36] This was fun. [1:21:37] Thanks, man. [1:21:38] Thanks for having me. [1:21:38] Thanks for coming on. [1:21:39] Thanks. [1:21:40] Whatever. [1:21:40] Having Jesus Christ. [1:21:42] Don't get over it. [1:21:45] So in closing, what are my thoughts? [1:21:46] I think Gavin Newsom wants to run to the middle. [1:21:49] Should we trust him? [1:21:50] No, I don't think it's legitimate. [1:21:52] I don't think it's authentic. [1:21:54] I will say their team told us they would not edit a piece of footage [1:21:58] and they didn't. [1:21:59] And they deserve credit for that. [1:22:00] In a world where a lot of people will say one thing and do another, [1:22:03] they were honest brokers. [1:22:05] But I don't think that Gavin Newsom is actually having a metamorphosis on any issue. [1:22:09] I don't think Gavin Newsom has any has any closely held issues. [1:22:13] I think he cares about what will keep him in power and get him closer to the presidency. [1:22:18] So hope you guys enjoyed my conversation with Gavin Newsom. [1:22:21] There is now a Democrat Civil War underway, large in part thanks to our conversation. [1:22:25] It was good to be able to challenge one of the leaders of the Democrat Party on who they are [1:22:29] and why they have failed the American people. [1:22:31] And also to continue to remind them they are losing young people. [1:22:35] I want your comments on this discussion below. [1:22:37] Text this entire video to your friends and make sure that you guys get involved with the most [1:22:43] important organization in the country, Turning Point USA. [1:22:46] Thank you, guys. Hit subscribe. We'll see you soon.