Former NATO chief reacts to Trump’s criticism of the alliance: ‘I take it seriously’

[0:00] Welcome to Meet the Press Now. I'm Kristen Welker in Washington, and a new ceasefire agreement [0:04] announced today by President Trump between Israel and Lebanon is set to take effect in less than an [0:09] hour as the Trump administration battles rising public skepticism and economic discontent over [0:15] the war with Iran. Earlier today, President Trump announcing on social media the leaders of Israel [0:21] and Lebanon agreed to a 10-day ceasefire that will go into effect at 5 p.m. Eastern. For weeks, [0:27] Israel and the Iran-backed militant group Hezbollah in Lebanon have been exchanging heavy fire, [0:33] killing thousands and displacing more than a million people. The fighting there has continued [0:38] despite the fragile U.S.-Iran ceasefire. The contours of the Israel-Lebanon agreement announced [0:44] today remain unclear, including major questions about whether Lebanon will be able to control [0:49] Hezbollah, which was not party to the talks. Speaking to reporters while leaving the White [0:54] House for Las Vegas, where he's expected to deliver remarks celebrating his tax policies, [0:59] President Trump touted the deal between the two countries. Take a look. [1:03] We're going to be meeting with Bibi Netanyahu, as you know, and the president of Lebanon. And I had a [1:11] great talk with both of them today. They're going to be having a ceasefire, and that'll include [1:16] Hezbollah. We will have an agreement between Lebanon, and they're going to take care of Hezbollah. [1:22] But they're going to be working on Hezbollah right now. But we'll have a degree between Israel, [1:27] very importantly, and Lebanon. Meanwhile, the U.S. ceasefire deal with Iran is set to expire in [1:33] just five days. President Trump today offering mixed messages on whether he's willing to extend [1:38] that truce. Are you considering extending the ceasefire [1:42] with Iran? With who? With Iran. [1:46] We're doing very well, I can tell you. Maybe it'll happen before that. I'm not sure it needs to be [1:51] extended. Just so you know, Iran wants to make a deal, and we're dealing very nicely with them. [1:59] We've got to have no nuclear weapons. If we do, that's a big factor. And they're willing to do [2:05] things today that they weren't willing to do two months ago. The president today also brushing [2:24] aside rising gas prices, which have climbed above $4 a gallon amid the ongoing turmoil in the Strait [2:30] of America for Moose. Well, they're not very high. If you look at what they were supposed to be in [2:39] order to get rid of a nuclear weapon with the danger that entails. So the gas prices have come down [2:45] very much over the last three, four days. I know, you know, and that's what ABC says. But the fact is [2:50] that if you look at the stock markets up, everything's doing really well. And the big thing we have to [2:57] do is we have to make sure that Iran does not have a nuclear weapon. [3:00] It comes as two new polls show a majority of Americans disapprove of the president's handling [3:06] of the war, which is now in its seventh week. And while the president continues to insist the war [3:12] is close to over, a plurality say they believe it will continue for months. Diving deeper into those [3:18] numbers, there was surprising agreement across the ideological spectrum that the war could last for [3:24] months. NBC News White House correspondent Gabe Gutierrez is in Las Vegas ahead of the president's [3:28] speech. And NBC News international correspondent Matt Bradley is live in Tel Aviv. Thanks to both [3:32] of you for starting us off. Gabe, let me start with you. The president traveling to Las Vegas as we speak. [3:38] He's going to talk about affordability, but it does come amid this pressure, this polling on Iran, [3:44] showing that people disapprove of his handling of the war. What are you expecting when he talks today? [3:50] Do you think he can stay on his economic message? [3:52] Well, that's a big question, Kristen. Certainly the president has had a lot of things over the [3:58] last several days step on that economic message. The White House has been trying to hit that economic [4:03] message hard on tax day yesterday, touting the benefits of the so-called one big beautiful bill [4:09] and hitting the idea that policies like no tax on tips are benefiting Americans. They're also [4:16] saying that some 53 million filers have taken advantage and claimed at least one of the [4:23] president's tax cuts from that signature bill. But he is running across a lot of issues across the [4:30] country when it comes to gas prices. You played with the president said earlier today here in Nevada, [4:34] certainly gas price is a big concern, around $5 a gallon on average here. And we spoke to drivers [4:41] earlier today. When we got here, there is a lot of concern about how long this war could drag on. [4:47] But here at this round table, Kristen, the president will be here with Treasury Secretary Scott [4:51] Besson speaking to other business leaders. We did speak outside this venue with a Trump supporter [4:56] who says that she is a business owner, came to see him from 45 minutes away. And the no tax on tips [5:02] policy, she says, has been huge for the business that she runs, for bartenders and waitresses [5:07] businesses that work at her small business. So the president really trying to hit that message hard [5:13] today. But during when he spoke with reporter reporters earlier today, questions were dominated [5:18] by the ongoing Iran war as well as the president talking about his ongoing feud with the pope. So big [5:25] question today will be whether he can stay on this message, Kristen. It will be a big question. We'll be [5:30] listening very closely on that ceasefire the president announced between Israel and Lebanon. He [5:37] says that he spoke with both sides by phone. What more do we know about those conversations? [5:43] Well, since the president's announcement, we have heard from Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu [5:49] and also Lebanese officials who say that, yes, they did agree to this proposed ceasefire. The big [5:57] question hanging over all of this, though, what would Hezbollah say? Now, we understand, according to a [6:02] senior Hezbollah official, that if indeed Israel does stop its attacks on southern Lebanon, that they would [6:10] consider this. But certainly that over the last several days has been something the Trump administration has been [6:15] trying to broker this type of ceasefire. Just several days ago, back in Washington, Secretary of State Marco Rubio sat down [6:22] with Israeli and Lebanese leaders for the first time in decades. So certainly this is something the president has been [6:28] working frantically to achieve over the last day or two. But, Kristen, the conflict in southern Lebanon [6:35] between Hezbollah and Israel, of course, is just one of the many issues hanging over the broader peace [6:43] negotiations. So the president, though, touting that as he heads here to Nevada, where we expect him to speak [6:50] in the next couple of hours. All right. Gabe Gutierrez traveling with the president in Las Vegas. [6:55] Thank you so much, Gabe. We really appreciate it. Let me head over to Matt Bradley now, who's live in Tel Aviv. [7:01] Matt, what are you hearing from Israeli officials about this ceasefire with Lebanon? Is there optimism that it can [7:09] hold? I wouldn't say there's necessarily optimism. The Israelis clearly didn't want this ceasefire to stop their [7:18] operations in Lebanon. And as part of that, we've seen the far right fringes of Israeli politics, some of whom are allied with [7:26] Benjamin Netanyahu, harshly criticizing this deal and the prime minister, saying that basically, you know, [7:33] the job is being left undone. And it looks to many Israelis like Benjamin Netanyahu is acquiescing to [7:39] pressure from Donald Trump to end the fighting against Hezbollah. The prime minister just addressed [7:44] the nation and reassured them that Israel's military activities north of their border in Lebanon will now [7:51] keep Israelis in the north of the country safe from Hezbollah rockets. And the Israelis have been making [7:57] clear that their job is not yet done, that they plan to disarm Hezbollah just as they plan to disarm [8:04] Hamas, which is still very much a work in progress. It hasn't even begun. So this is a formidable political [8:11] challenge ahead of the Israelis and the Lebanese government, who are now presumably, depending on how [8:17] negotiations go from here, going to be partners with the Israelis in disarming Hezbollah. That is going to [8:23] be a very delicate diplomatic dance ahead. I spoke with a member of Hezbollah, a senior official. He said [8:29] that Hezbollah welcomes this deal, that they have always been part of the negotiations, that they gave [8:34] their assent to this deal, which is the reason why the Lebanese government had approved it. And they also [8:39] said, and they will continue to say, that the reason why the Israelis went for the ceasefire was because [8:44] Hezbollah can claim victory. All right, Matt Bradley, great reporting. Thank you for bringing us that [8:51] conversation. We appreciate it. Joining me now on set is the former NATO Secretary General, now Norway's [8:57] Minister of Finance, Jens Stoltenberg. Minister Stoltenberg, thank you so much for being here. We [9:02] really appreciate it. Thanks so much for having me. Well, it's wonderful to have you here in person. I want [9:07] to start off by getting your reaction to this breaking news. President Trump announcing this temporary [9:12] ceasefire between Israel and Lebanon. What is your level of confidence that this can actually hold? [9:20] So first of all, I think we all need to recognize that this is good news. And hopefully, it will [9:26] actually mean that there will be a ceasefire and that the fighting will end. And that will, of course, [9:33] also end all the killings and the human suffering we have seen. And hopefully, it will then be the [9:38] first step towards some kind of lasting peace arrangements. But of course, there are always [9:44] uncertainties. So it remains to be seen. But I think we at least now have a possibility we haven't [9:49] had for a long time. And of course, we know Vice President J.D. Vance was in Pakistan last weekend [9:55] holding talks with Iran. President Trump floating the idea that there could be more talks in the coming [10:02] days. What is your understanding about where those talks are heading right now? [10:08] Well, I believe that talks is the only way to try to end this war, the whole war in the region, [10:17] in a way where we stop seeing so many people being killed. This war is first and foremost about all the [10:23] people who have been lost their lives, their homes destroyed, the people forced to move. But of course, [10:29] this is also a war that has severe economic consequences. I'm attending the spring meeting [10:36] of the International Monetary Fund. And we see that forecast for growth has gone down, [10:42] forecast for inflation has increased. And therefore, also for a global economy, [10:47] for the prices we face in our everyday life, it is important to try to end. And of course, [10:52] the talks that are hopefully going on is a way to make that happen. [10:57] Well, let me ask you about the IMF summit here in Washington, D.C. As you say, [11:02] growth has gone down. The IMF warned in a report the disruption to oil markets could slow growth even [11:09] further, fuel inflation and raise the possibility even, Minister Stoltenberg, of a global recession. [11:16] Do you think that's a possibility, a global recession? [11:19] Well, according to the IMF, our best experts there, it is a possibility. But IMF highlights [11:26] the uncertainty. They have now actually outlined different scenarios. And they all very much [11:32] depend on how long the war will last, how long the Strait of Hormuz will be closed. And if it doesn't [11:39] last so long, then, of course, the consequences will be much less severe than if it continues. [11:44] But even if the war ends today and the Strait of Hormuz opens tomorrow, there will be some lasting [11:51] consequences because it has been a very significant reduction in the supply of oil and gas. [11:58] Prices have already gone up. Also on commodities like fertilizers, which will mean increased food [12:05] prices. And a lot of infrastructure production facilities have been destroyed. So it will take [12:10] time to rebuild that and to get the flow of energy and other commodities up and running again. [12:18] You talk about the Strait of Hormuz. As you know, President Trump has been very critical [12:22] of some European countries, some Asian countries calling on Europe and Asia to do more. He says [12:30] that those countries rely more on the Strait of Hormuz than the United States. [12:34] Is that a fair criticism? What do you make of what President Trump has said on that point? [12:38] Well, I think we all want Strait of Hormuz to be open. The question is, how do we best [12:44] secure that? And yes, there have been some different views, some different opinions among [12:50] some European countries and the United States. But now I think we have to look forward. We [12:55] welcome any talks, any attempts to try to find a peaceful solution. And the Europeans have [13:01] actually now decided also to sit down and discuss among themselves what can they do, how can [13:07] they contribute to safe passage and to ensure that we again can have a free flow of energy [13:14] and other commodities out of the Persian Gulf. [13:16] Minister Stoltenberg, this is yet another moment where the tensions between the United States [13:22] and NATO have intensified. I want to play you a little bit of what President Trump had to [13:27] say today about NATO and get your reaction on the other side. Take a look. [13:31] We spend trillions and trillions of dollars on NATO. When I asked them to get involved in a much [13:38] smaller situation, which is Hormuz and Iran, they weren't there for it. When we asked them to [13:45] get involved on a very minor skirmish by comparison to what it could be, they weren't there. So I don't [13:52] think they'd be there for a large skirmish. And therefore, I think they've got themselves a problem. [13:56] What was your reaction to what President Trump said? [14:00] Well, I take it seriously when the President of the United States expresses that kind of criticism. [14:04] At the same time, I think we need to understand that NATO is the defensive alliance and NATO is [14:09] about defending all allies. And the Europeans are doing much more now than just a few years ago. [14:16] President Trump and other U.S. presidents have criticized Europeans for not spending enough [14:21] on defense. And they have been right. But this has now changed. All European allies are investing [14:27] significantly more in defense. Some European allies, like Poland, the Baltic countries, [14:32] in my own country, Norway, we're actually now spending a larger share of our economy, [14:38] our GDP, on defense than the United States. So this has changed. And it's not only about resources, [14:44] but also about geography. My country, Norway is bordering Russia. Just on the other side of [14:51] our land border, we see the highest concentration of nuclear weapons in the world, missiles, submarines, [14:57] bombers. And these weapons are not directed at Norway. They are directed at the United States. [15:03] But Norway helps the U.S. to monitor, to track the submarines, to share intelligence, [15:08] and to give you early warning and to tell exactly what the Russians are doing. This is part of the [15:14] U.S. homeland defense provided by a NATO ally, Norway. And there are many other similar examples. [15:21] So the U.S. is safer with a strong NATO. And therefore, I expect and believe that the U.S. [15:27] will continue to be committed to NATO. Let me ask you, do you think this would have unraveled [15:32] differently if President Trump had sought the support of European allies on the front end, [15:37] particularly as it relates to the Strait of Hormuz and securing it? [15:40] Well, I think, fundamentally, we need to distinguish a bit between NATO as the institution, [15:46] an alliance with strict rules of how we make decisions. For NATO to be involved in any [15:51] operation, be it in Afghanistan, as we were for many years, or in the Balkans, we need [15:58] unanimity, all how to agree, consensus. And therefore, it's about sometimes a bit cumbersome, [16:06] a way to make decisions. That's one thing. That's NATO as the institution. Then, of course, [16:12] individual NATO allies, they can participate in different coalition or the willing, as we [16:18] have seen in many different places in the world. We saw, for instance, in the fight against [16:22] ISIS in Iraq and Syria. So I think if there was a real wish to have NATO allies on board in [16:29] one way or another, then, of course, there has to be consultations on the forum and to agree, [16:35] actually, on how to do this. [16:37] Very quickly, because I want to move on to Ukraine and also Hungary. But do you think that [16:41] there has been lasting damage done to the relationship between the United States and NATO [16:47] in the wake of this war with Iran? [16:49] It is difficult. And we should not, you know, oversee this as a real problem. Having said [16:57] that, NATO has been too many crisis before. We are 32 nations from both sides of the Atlantic, [17:03] starting with the Suez crisis in 1956, or when France actually left the military cooperation [17:09] NATO in the 1960s, or the Iraq war, big disagreements between NATO allies. We have always been able [17:16] to overcome those differences, because we are safer when we are together and apart. And that's good [17:21] for Europe, but also good for the United States. [17:24] Well, let me ask you about Ukraine. Fighting has intensified there, the Russian attacks against Ukraine. [17:31] Your successor, Mark Rutte, said, quote, we cannot lose sight of Ukraine. Are you concerned that that's [17:39] exactly what's happening? [17:41] First of all, I totally agree with Mark Rutte. And second, I feel the responsibility, and we should all [17:46] feel responsible to remind people of the war that goes on in Ukraine. And just last night, we had [17:53] one of the biggest attacks with drones, with missiles, with ballistic missiles, cruise missiles on [17:58] Kiev and other parts of Ukraine. And we need to support Ukraine. The good news is that Russia is not [18:06] winning this war. They have actually lost 50 percent of the territory they control at the beginning of [18:12] the war in 22 or the full-scale invasion. Second, they have, over the last year, pushed and really [18:19] launched big offensives. They haven't gained any territory. What they have is they have suffered [18:26] high casualty rates, like 1,000 per day wounded and killed. And Russia cannot sustain that level [18:35] for a long time. And therefore, actually, I believe that Ukraine may prevail and that Russia will be [18:42] forced to sit down and accept some kind of a negotiated solution where Ukraine continues to [18:48] be a sovereign independent nation in Europe. It's a significant statement that you think Ukraine can [18:52] prevail. Let me quickly play for you something that Vice President J.D. Vance said about Ukraine and [18:56] get your reaction to that. One of the things I'm proudest that we've done in this administration [19:01] is we've told Europe that if you want to buy weapons, you can, but the United States is not buying [19:05] weapons and sending them to Ukraine anymore. We're just out of that business. What is your response [19:09] to hearing that from the Vice President? Does it undercut President Trump's argument that he wants [19:15] to try to end this war and that he's focused on that? First of all, I welcome that the U.S. has [19:20] done and continues to do a lot to support Ukraine. This administration makes weapon systems available, [19:28] not least advanced air defense systems, patriots. They also provide information and logistics to [19:36] help the Ukrainians, which is of great importance. But I would have liked to see that the U.S. [19:41] continues to provide some financial support because now almost 100 percent of the payments for the [19:47] weapons, the financial support Ukraine, is provided by European allies and Canada. And of course, we all have [19:55] responsibility. We should do this together. And therefore, I would welcome more support from the United States. [20:00] Last question. I have to ask you before I let you go. The elections in Hungary, Viktor Orban out of power [20:05] after 16 years. What are the implications for the EU, for NATO and quite frankly, the United States as well? [20:12] So first of all, I think it's important to recognize that it shows that Hungary is a democracy. [20:18] Viktor Orban lost the election and he declared that very early on that election eve that, well, I lost [20:24] because I graduated to the other candidate. That's a good thing, regardless of what you think about [20:28] the policies of Viktor Orban, it's democracy. The second, of course, the new prime minister is [20:33] much more positive to cooperation within the European Union and he's more positive to supporting [20:39] Ukraine. So he, as far as we understand, will not block the support from the European Union to [20:46] Ukraine. And that is of great importance for Ukraine, but also for all of us, because if Putin wins [20:53] in Ukraine, it will not only be a tragedy for the Ukrainians, it will make the whole world more [20:59] dangerous because then we see that authoritarian powers like Russia can use force to get what they [21:07] want and that's not good for any of us. Minister Stoltenberg, thank you so very much for being [21:12] here in person. We really appreciate your insights. Thank you. [21:15] Thank you. We thank you for watching and remember, stay updated on breaking news and top [21:19] stories on the NBC News app or watch live on our YouTube channel.