Extended interview: Former first lady Jill Biden

[0:00] You say in the very first chapter, the time to discuss those four years in the White House so much that I've avoided letting myself think about is now. What do you mean by that? [0:16] Well, I think maybe some of the challenges that I that, you know, Joe and I faced and, you know, it goes so fast, Rita. I mean, those four years just move so fast. We did so much. And I'm proud of so proud of what our Joe's administration accomplished. And so it was kind of after I got out of the White House, it was a little more time to breathe and tell the story, tell my story. [0:47] of how I felt about being there. [0:50] The opening line of the book is once you lose a child, nothing can hurt you. So what about that? [1:02] So I think after we lost Beau, I felt really more resilient. I think having been through that, you know, the pain and the loss, I think, I don't know. [1:19] You just feel like if you can survive the loss of your child, nothing hurts worse than that. [1:27] And of course, you and President Biden just managed to go on with your lives. And he even said that Beau was the reason that he went for president in the first place. [1:39] Yeah. So Beau always and all our children did actually encourage Joe to run. And, you know, they just had such a beautiful, close relationship. [1:51] You know, Beau was in politics himself. He was attorney general. So they had so much in common. [1:58] You also say that being first lady could be like a catch 22. Why? [2:04] Well, I think it was, it was the honor of my life. I mean, Rita, I loved every day of it, the good days and the bad days. [2:15] It was just such an honor to serve the American people. And it was, it was just a wonderful part of my life. [2:27] And I'm going to ask you more about that. But I, you know, as I said, you say being first lady could feel like a catch 22. [2:36] You're encouraged to use your platform to do good, but not to be too aggressive in pursuing the policies that you want. [2:44] That's true. [2:45] If you know too little about what you were doing, then you were an embarrassment. If you knew too much, then you were trying to rule the world. [2:53] So tell us about that. I mean, why was it hard to be first lady? [2:56] Well, I think, you know, I couldn't overstep, I think, on, on what the West Wing was doing. I, he, Joe was the West Wing. I was the East Wing. [3:07] And we each did our own, we had our own interests and passions, but I was there to support what Joe did and to take it out to the people of our country. [3:19] And so I think we worked together. I thought we worked together beautifully and we were in tandem. [3:26] But why did you think it was a catch 22? I mean, were you worried about how people would perceive you doing too much or not enough? [3:34] Kind of a fine line. I think, um, every first lady has had to do that. [3:41] You also say, um, you have been accused of either having been too involved in your husband's presidency or too hands off. Why? [3:52] Well, I think, uh, toward the end, I think people, uh, pushed me to take more of a role to, um, get Joe to step down. [4:02] But, Rita, it was always Joe's decision. I mean, he had to make those decisions. He had to make the decision to run or not to run. [4:13] Um, so, but people thought, well, you need to say this or you need to say that. No. You know, Joe, Joe and I discussed probably everything. [4:24] But in the end, on those matters, he was the one to make the decision. [4:30] Um, so what did you see as your role in the administration? [4:35] Oh, my role? Oh, my gosh. I guess my role was, um, I saw myself really as the American woman in that I was working full time. [4:46] I'm the first, first lady to have a paying job. Outside the White House. Outside the White House and I taught, uh, English at a community college and, um, which I loved. [4:59] And then I had my role as first lady. So, uh, I guess it was just trying to, I don't know, balance it all. [5:08] And, and it was, it was amazing. It was extraordinary. [5:13] You know, it feels like ancient history because when you first came in to the White House, it was the height of the pandemic. [5:21] Ah, yes. So tell me about that. I mean, you know, I think most Americans like try to forget that chapter of America's life because it was so hard to live through a pandemic. [5:34] And, um, and, uh, but Joe came in and he picked up the pieces and he made sure that shots got in the arms and the vaccine got in the arms and that schools reopened and, uh, and he turned things around. [5:50] And the first year that we were there, that was my job. I mean, I hadn't anticipated, you know, I thought we'd get into the White House and I'd go right to work with all the issues I cared about. [6:01] But where we had the pandemic, I had to make sure that this country healed physically and emotionally. [6:10] You traveled the country trying to make sure that people got vaccinated, for example, right? [6:15] Oh yeah. Almost every single day. I would go to many, many states and places and, um, encourage people to get vaccinated. [6:25] Dr. Fauci would travel with me or Vivek Murthy would travel with me, who was the surgeon general. And, um, and we did it. [6:34] And you, your family was all around you in the White House, right? [6:39] Yes. Yes. What's more fun than coming to the White House? You know, they all like Nana, I want this room or I want that room or they were there all the time, [6:49] which was really fun to have our kids there, our grandkids, their friends. Um, it was a beautiful part of it. [6:57] And the other highlights you can remember, like, this is, I can't believe I'm doing this or being here. [7:03] I think every day I felt that way. [7:05] You felt that way. Every single day. When I opened my eyes, I would think, I cannot believe we're here. [7:15] You talked about many of your husband's successes, the build back better, um, passing the first, um, major gun legislation in 30 years. [7:24] Um, you also say when Joe and I moved into the White House in January, 2021, it felt as though we had the wind at our back. [7:34] And then within a few months, the wind shifted. There were lots of things that happened in that time. [7:42] There was Afghanistan, Russia's invasion of Ukraine. And why do you think it shifted? [7:49] Because of the reasons you just named. [7:51] Also, was there a shift in Congress, do you think? [7:55] Oh my gosh. Yes. I mean, we had, you know, a Republican Congress and, um, well, it was, let's just say, [8:05] when Joe started in politics, all during his Senate years and even some into the vice presidency, [8:14] Republicans and Democrats respected one another. You know, yes, they had differences of opinion, [8:21] but they never let it get personal. There were never personal attacks on one another. [8:28] And I think that's a big change of, you know, what we see today where it's so personal and so, um, mean and vindictive a lot of times. [8:40] And why is that necessary? I, I didn't grow up like that. Joe didn't grow up like that. Um, you know, [8:48] these are the people we elected. And I think, um, there has to be more civility. [8:53] You know, you said at one point in the book, people thought he was protected. He was living in a bubble, [9:00] but he saw, you know, the writing on the wall, the bad news everywhere. [9:05] He did. He was, he watches news constantly. So he wasn't living in any bubble. He wasn't living in a bubble, no. [9:11] Why do you believe President Biden ultimately decided not to run in 2020? [9:18] Because he didn't have the support of the Democratic Party. And, um, and so he made the decision not to. [9:28] And so he met with his top advisors. How did that day unfold? [9:33] Well, uh, it was at the beach and, um, his advisors, you have a house at the beach. [9:43] We have a house at the beach. Yeah. And, um, so many of them came in and, uh, and, you know, [9:54] discussed it with Joe and, um, offered their thoughts and opinions. And ultimately he had, [10:01] he decided that night, he said, you know, so, okay, if we decide, um, if I decide not to continue, [10:09] how will this roll out? And, and the family still wanted him. You wouldn't give an opinion. [10:16] That's right. He was hearing from other members of the family. Yeah. Run, Joe, run. Right? Yeah. [10:21] Our kids, you know, really wanted him to stay in because they were hearing from people, you know, [10:29] in Philadelphia or people that weren't in the Washington bubble. They were hearing people from [10:36] wherever they were, you know, people calling them from all across the country to tell them to stay in, [10:41] tell them to stay in. Um, and, uh, so, I mean, my kids were, you know, they wanted him to stay in. [10:50] So he decided that it was, he was going to drop out. That's right. It was Sunday, July 21st, 2024. [11:01] Before your husband made the announcement, he called vice president Harris. Yes. [11:06] And to tell her what he had decided. And you said almost as soon as he gave her the news, [11:12] she demanded that he endorse her right away. And he, he, I mean, did you think something was off about [11:19] that? Uh, you know, I'm sure she, um, thought about it, you know, it wasn't like a call out of the [11:31] blue. I'm sure with everything happening at that time, it had to cross her mind. So I think, um, [11:37] I think that's, but when you said it was back and forth because she wanted him, um, to endorse her [11:45] at the same time he announced that he was dropping out and he wanted to just make the announcement of [11:51] a dropout first, right? Oh yeah. And you said you even walked out of the room because it was, [12:00] got two tens maybe. Well, it was just, I'm telling you, it was so hard. I mean, [12:06] this is what Joe had worked for all his life. He loved being a statesman. Um, he loved the job of [12:14] helping the American people and to give it up. I mean, Rita, he did it for over 50 years of his life. [12:22] That's a long time. And so at some point when all of this is going on, it gets a little overwhelming. [12:31] And yes, I had to walk out. Um, you went all out to get vice president Harris elected. Oh, [12:38] all out. I was out on the trail every, I mean, I think every single day I traveled the entire country. [12:46] Um, and you know, that the night, the election night, I mean, I was certain she was going to win. [12:57] You were. The excitement for her and the crowds and I mean, how people rallied around her. [13:05] And I truly felt that she was going to win. I was shocked she didn't win because I think she would [13:12] be a good president. And, um, I, I don't know. I went to bed. I mean, I just, I couldn't believe [13:21] that she had lost. I couldn't believe it. Um, you, so, you know, you had to leave the White House. [13:30] Yeah. We weren't going to stay there. Um, it's only in the four year term. Um, when [13:39] President Biden won the 2020 election, the Trumps did not attend his inauguration. Why did you decide [13:48] to attend the inaugural for President Trump? Because, you know, there are certain traditions that we have [13:54] in our country that, um, Joe and I respect and they include the traditions that, um, occur when an [14:05] inauguration takes place. And, and we believe in those. And so we were still upholding the American [14:13] traditions and values and what we think Americans expect from their president and first lady. [14:20] So you say on the morning that you were leaving the White House, there was frost on one of the [14:28] window panes and you said you wrote a message with your finger where no one would find it for a while. [14:38] Maybe the people who cleaned the glass. Um, but then you say, should I let it remain or shouldn't I? [14:44] And you don't say what the message was. Of course not. If you let it remain. [14:50] I know. I'm going to have to keep you guessing. So you're not going to tell us? [14:56] I'm not going to tell. No. Oh, no. Oh, no. Um, that would spoil all the fun. [15:02] So, so when you think about the country now, um, what do you think of the direction this country is [15:10] going in now? Well, it's certainly not the direction, um, I think Joe would have taken it in. [15:16] Uh, so, um, but what I tell people is, um, to still have hope that things are going to get better [15:30] and, um, to keep working for what we always believed in democracy and, um, tradition and just the [15:41] American values, uh, that I think we all hold. I think they're going to come back. [15:47] Um, what's your bet on the midterms? Oh, my gosh. I think we're going to do well in the midterms. [15:54] I do. Democrats. Yes, I have a lot of hope. Um, I want to ask you this one more time because I just [16:01] want to get the sense, I, as I said, I think this is the essential question that people are going to [16:07] want to know from you is, have you ever seen signs of mental decline in your husband? Mental decline, [16:16] not physical. No. I mean, I've seen aging. I've seen him slow down, like I said, but no. Um, no, [16:25] just one thing I wanted to ask you before I forget. Um, you know, I'm going to show some video and you [16:32] mentioned, you know, the highlight of your, um, the White House. Was there any foreign trip that you [16:39] just loved? Oh, my gosh. Uh, I, oh, well, I hate to say loved, but the one, one of the trips when I [16:50] went to meet, uh, Olenna Zelenska in, uh, in the Ukraine and the war had started and, um, it was a very [17:01] secret, uh, trip. Of course she's married to the president. Yes. And, uh, I met her. Um, I had to [17:11] cross over the border in secret. We were in a war zone and she knew I was coming. And, um, so I can [17:18] remember this so clearly my car pulled up, her car pulled up and we both got out of the car and just [17:26] instinctively we just ran toward each other and hugged. And it was, I said, I'm here to show the [17:35] support of the American people. And she knew that. And it was just, I mean, it was so moving, uh, to be [17:44] able to show her this, our support for them in this war that's continues until this day, but she's so [17:54] strong and brave. And, um, you know, it, it kind of gives me the chills to, to think about it right [18:02] now, to go back to that moment. And I, I hope that American women see me a reflection of themselves [18:09] in that they're trying to balance so many things, a job, their children and whatever, you know, maybe [18:17] older parents. And I felt that I was doing that same thing. So I hope they see themselves in me. [18:24] You know, you advocated for free community college. I did. [18:30] And your husband left that out of a bill that he was passing. Did that give you any pause? And [18:40] did you have words with him about that? Oh, God, no, no, I didn't have words with him. I mean, [18:45] it was a trade off as it turned out. Um, and you know, I'm sorry that we didn't get free community [18:52] college, but the choice was putting the money into early childhood education [18:59] or free community college. And even though I desperately believe in free community college, [19:04] I know as an educator, that if a child does not get a good beginning, a good start, [19:12] that, um, you know, that they have trouble catching up all the way through their years of education. [19:21] So I had to make that choice.