Exclusive Interview With Peter Obi On Sunday Politics 8:00pm

[2:04] program. This is Thunder Politics live on channel television. I'm Sean Joaquin Maloye live for you [2:10] here in Abuja. Every election season brings with it familiar promises, new alliances and renewed [2:20] hope. But this moment feels some kind of difference. Across the country Nigerians are asking [2:26] perhaps the most important question of all. Who has the ideas, the courage and the leadership to [2:33] turn the country around? Tonight, we sit down with one of the men at the center of that national [2:39] conversation, a former two-term governor of Anambra State, the Labour Party's presidential candidate [2:45] in 2023, now the National Democratic Congress's presidential candidate for 2027, and one of [2:53] Nigeria's most influential political figures, Mr. Peter Gregory Obi. From the economy and electricity [3:00] to insecurity, coalition politics, party defections, transparency, and the criticisms that have [3:07] followed his political journey, nothing is off the table in this conversation. Beyond the headlines [3:13] and the campaign rhetoric, this is an opportunity to hear directly from the man seeking Nigeria's [3:19] highest office. Can he convince Nigerians that he has a vision, the strategy, and the leadership to [3:25] meet this defining moment? I sat down with Mr. Peter Obi. It's a pleasure having you on the program. [3:34] Thank you, sir. Congratulations, by the way. You've climbed the ladder of being an elder state man, [3:40] because at that age, a lot of people imagine that one will have attained the status of an elder state [3:47] man. How do you feel? Well, uh, well, I thank God for His grace, because whenever we wake up in the morning, [3:56] currently, but we want to thank God for His grace, because we're here and I His grace. Whenever we fall, [4:03] I travel around every day, move around, my needs to give gratitude to God Almighty allowing me to be there. [4:15] At that age, you were able to reflect, did you? And in that reflection, what would you say you want to [4:25] dedicate the rest of your life to? Well, I have done that since when I was 50, where I said, [4:31] now what I want to do is to help in impacting humanity. And that's what I've been doing since [4:40] I was 50. But I have regrets that not much have improved in my country, considering that every year, [4:51] we're headed south. We are more and more people being impoverished, more and more people have children [4:59] out of school, or things are going wrong in the right direction. So you feel pain. But I'm going [5:09] to increase my effort in whatever I'm doing. My joy will be there, will create a Nigerian that is [5:20] united and peaceful, and people are happy to say, we're Nigerians. [5:26] It does look, it does have, there's a feeling, and I'm not sure you've said this, if you've said it, [5:36] maybe you can clarify, that Peter Obi's wanting to change Nigeria, because that seems to be your mantra. [5:47] Peter Obi wanting to fix Nigeria. And as such that if that doesn't happen, by being the president of [5:55] Nigeria in 2027, you're done. Is that the idea? Well, that's not the idea. I do this, but I've [6:04] always said, I'm not desperate to be Nigerian, but I'm desperate to see Nigeria work. So if it's working, [6:13] I would support whatever makes it to work. I want to see a country where it keeps saying it every day, [6:23] a child of nobody, it can't be somebody, without knowing anybody, where we can pull people out of [6:29] poverty. Where are young ones who have opportunity to live, get a job, be entrepreneurial, participate [6:39] in what young people do all over the world. So it doesn't matter if Peter Obi is the president or not. [6:46] So far, Nigeria is good. You're fine with it. Why not? So, and in any capacity that you are able to help, [6:54] either a minister or a president, that's okay. I don't even need to hold any votes. [6:58] You don't need to hold any votes. I'm contestant because I believe that I will fix it. I will unite [7:10] the country and be able to do it to show an example of what is possible. [7:18] Well, there are those who do not think that you've got what it takes to unite the country. You just [7:25] mentioned uniting Nigeria. On politics today, the former governor of Boronu State, incidentally, when he [7:31] left office was about the time that you were entering to become governor of Boronu State. And he mentioned [7:36] to say that... No, I was there before I left office. Yeah. So just, I mean, he was exiting. Your turn [7:44] coincided at some point. You were in office at some point when he also was an officer. He said, [7:50] people should not look in your direction because you will divide Nigeria, that you do not have what it takes [7:56] to unite Nigeria. How do you react to such a statement? That's directly opposite of what I will do. [8:03] I will unite the country. And I know what it takes to unite Nigeria. And what would that be? [8:16] If you look at my records, what he said is opposite. At the onset, while he was still governor, [8:25] I was saying at the onset of this Boko Haram issue, his own brother was killed. So I traveled to Boronu [8:36] Boronu State to condole him. What if people don't want to go there? I went to Boronu State. It's on [8:44] record. So they've been frauded in Boronu State. I went there, contributed about 50 million [8:54] dollars. Visited the governor, visited the show of Boronu. I visited IDP camp in Boronu. I've been to most [9:04] troubled parts of the north. Beats, casino, cabins. I've been to Blanche up to four times. Visiting [9:16] various affected communities on the screen and everything. Spent time in IDP camp. Helped even [9:25] communities that are affected to rebuild their schools for their children. Went to the IDP camps, [9:32] supported them. I've done that in Benue. I spent Christmas, New Year in IDP camps. [9:41] So I've built Boronuos in Gombe, in Karuna, in everything but of the north. [9:51] When the University of Sokoto said, the University of Sokoto Agricultural Faculty said, [9:57] all they need is Boronu for their farm. I did it. At our business schools in Sokoto, [10:04] even when Tabua was governor. I can go on and on. I've done the same thing in the south west. I've been to [10:11] schools, in Kogi schools of nursing, at least in hospitals, all over Nigeria. There's no politician [10:18] today in Nigeria. One, we're able to travel places that have been by road. From Kafanchan, to Kastuna, [10:29] to Medugri, to everywhere. I've traveled all over the place by road because I want the country to be [10:41] together. And I'm experiencing it. So for instance, what he's saying is the opposite of what I will do. [10:49] And I'm going to show you an example by going to all these places. How many places have other people gone? [10:56] Have you ever seen people in government today, even today, saying we're going to visit this place [11:02] because of this and everything? Even the residents of your district, I've visited the governor. We'll ask [11:10] governors of other places, whether it's up for anything. Whenever there's issue, I call them. [11:15] And I try to visit them. Whenever there's fire in Canaan and everything, I will go there. [11:21] Mr. Obi, don't you think that this is probably not about Peter Obi? Because any person that [11:29] understands the Nigerian history from the civil war to the post-civil war would think, I imagine, [11:35] that we have not totally healed. And there are segments of this country that have not been fully [11:41] integrated in terms of the politics of this country. Whether or not an Igbo man can become [11:46] president of Nigeria, do you think that we have moved away from the civil war syndrome and we have [11:52] totally healed such that an Igbo man like Peter Obi from Anambra, that no nature man will one day [11:59] become Nigeria's president? That is the beginning of the, that is the foundation of the healing. [12:05] And that is where you start to build momentum and build Nigeria. That is the beginning. [12:16] So a P2B presidency will commence the healing and the unity that is required to stabilize and build [12:26] the development of Nigeria. As I said, the new Nigeria is possible. Because everybody will be [12:31] crucial. How do we deal with the Cardinal Nseogu Tart coup? Because that seems to have been a major [12:39] wound that a lot of Nigerians still don't think that they can trust an Igbo man to become president. [12:44] You must, at any particular point in time, know that you cannot be trapped in the process of yesterday. [12:51] Those who are trapped in the process of yesterday must need the future. There must be a time to know that [13:00] we are the same. We must come together. Yes, we have a history, but we must not be trapped next. [13:11] It must not be private of tomorrow. Those who are trapped in the process of yesterday and today will [13:17] be tomorrow. I want to drive this country to tomorrow. I want the child of Nigeria to be able to grow up in [13:24] Nigeria. Go to school, live his life without thinking about his tribe, without thinking about [13:34] yesterday, without thinking about his religion. But as a Nigerian, I'm proud of it. And we're going to do [13:42] that. That is exactly what I have offered the people. I will never divide Nigeria. If I was in nice [13:51] Nigeria, I will show love to every part of Nigeria and make sure things are done differently because [13:59] I'm going to involve everybody. I'd like to look into this camera, Mr. Obi, because every Northern [14:07] that is watching through that lens tonight, we wonder whether or not they can trust an Igbo man. What [14:13] would you say to them tonight that you, Peter Obi, can be trusted to become Nigeria's president and the [14:20] lives, the destiny, and the politics of the Northern man is saving your hands? [14:25] I've changed enough. And nobody can drive that process today in Nigeria that I've seen in the [14:37] politics better than me. I will work with them and I will ensure that that unity, that security, [14:47] that prosperity they desire, I will commence it. And I've shown it. [14:52] I have to work closely with people in the North and have an idea of what's happening in the North. [14:58] I have an idea that it will have massive poverty that needs to be built. I have an idea to deal with [15:05] the issue of education and health properly, not history, and I'll deal with it decisively. [15:14] If you look at it, there are those who say we have not healed totally from the 1966 up to the 70. [15:22] What would you do? You saw what happened in South Africa, that those who say we need to reconcile, [15:27] we need to sit at a table, look eyeball to eyeball. The generation of those who are 30 years old today, [15:34] who are 20 years old today, who do not know the pains of the 1966 and 1970. Do you, I mean, [15:40] they had a moment of reconciliation where they started, they had a committee for reconciliation. [15:46] Do you think that we need a moment of sitting down as a people to reconcile and think about [15:53] what happened in the civil war and move forward? [15:54] Say we need to have, as said before, and I repeat, my presidency will heal and unite the Jews. [16:07] That's what you stand for. Are you going to set up a committee? [16:12] It's not saying that. [16:13] No, no, it's not pushing to sit down. The actions of the presidency will show what we're going to do. [16:20] Tell me about what Ali Mobyu also said about Northern tax, and you have been accused of labeling [16:28] northerners. How do you respond to that? [16:31] That's the lie. It never happened. [16:35] Sherif's ABC is on the rocks. Most governors choose their ABC, who is the closest person from them, [16:48] from their own. My ABC is from Canada, and it's a Muslim. [16:57] My ABC was the Muslim, still a Muslim. So how can you have a Muslim as closest person to you? [17:12] You're giving straight the tax. All the commissioners that serve as being, [17:17] because I was in the Northeast, we're Muslims. We're not actually a Muslim, but I'm from the North. [17:28] So how did I give them tax? You go from the North. [17:32] Sherif, I became governor. My closest staff from Dubai, we are from Kani. [17:48] We are all. Sherif, I became president. I've always created, paid for, [17:57] or at least a Muslim, every year to go to Hajj. Every year. And I have records of them. [18:08] As governor, I was paying for Christians to go for pre-crimmage. I was paying for Muslims [18:17] living in Anambra to go to Hajj. They are there. I'm sure, while he was governor in Boru State, [18:23] he never paid for any Christians to go to pre-crimmage. I was paying for Muslims. So, [18:31] how can I be giving them tax? And I can go on and on. I'll show you what I'm doing now, [18:37] perfectly on my own, going to do Boru Hall. As I speak to you, Sherif, I'm supporting four [18:46] al-Marjorie schools. In Karuna, in Balchi, and this, I'm supporting School of Nursing, in Balchi, [18:55] in Karuna, the Muslim school. And I can go on and on. So, you see, people, these are things they've done [19:02] in the past to keep Nigeria divided. Are there things that you have done in the past that you [19:09] regret about the optics and how you were profiled, and you thought that maybe it's something that you [19:15] need to change, that you have done wrongly, to make you look like you are an ethnic jingoist? [19:21] That's what I'm saying. This is the word they do. Instead of us discussing the problem of the country, [19:28] people come before you to discuss P2OB, P2OB, P2OB. That's not the issue. [19:36] World Bank has just said that 79% of Nigerians are going to face poverty. In a country of 230 million [19:47] people, that's over 18 million. That should be the issue we should be discussing. When they're [19:53] mentioning it, they should be talking about the issue of out-of-school children, talking about the [19:58] issue of health, and all these monies that I'm using here and there that would have invested properly. [20:04] Nobody is discussing it. When what politicians come on my program and they keep mentioning your [20:10] name, how does that make you feel? Well, it's not about what they're discussing about me. Calling [20:17] meaning it doesn't make me feel. But there are pandemic issues we are supposed to discuss. [20:23] I'm discussing what I think is irrelevant. Do you think mentioning your name shows that [20:30] you are a real threat and a man to beat in this election? Well, like I said, this election in [20:38] 2027 should be about issues that affect the ordinary Nigerians. We don't know what the World Food [20:47] Organization have just said that 5 million Nigerians are going to face hunger. Of course, Nigerians are [20:53] being kidnapped. Let's talk about Nigeria. Let me ask quickly because I'd like to set to some of the major [21:02] issues that I think are very significant and give you a chance of a right of reply. Because when [21:09] Mr. Ali Maudou Sherif also said that no matter what, even with a one console at your own event, [21:16] you still cannot win enough. Like I said, that is what they've been able to say to keep us a vantage. [21:27] That's what the global thing to ensure that the people continue to give us this confusion, [21:34] that we're in today, this mess that we're in today. And that's what we want to dismantle. [21:40] We want to ensure the ordinary Nigerians that a bit of the Kwankunso government will change [21:50] this country's support and be able to allow people to start living differently. [22:01] It takes me to the point that Mr. Kwankunso himself made on politics today when he said that there is a [22:09] part that you will only serve out four years if you win the election. Did you have an agreement to [22:15] that effect? I've said this since several times, Sheru. We have what you can call a written agreement. [22:23] We're gentlemen. We must respect it. I don't need more than four years [22:27] I want us to start trusting our leaders. Sheru, when I was going to become a governor, [22:42] I said the things that I would do. And when I came in, I started doing it. [22:46] I want us to start trusting our leaders. Sheru, when I was going to become a governor, [22:50] I said the things that I would do. And when I came in, I started doing it. I showed everybody [23:02] into my campaign. I said, I will not trade their money efficiently. I will never stop. [23:09] Nobody will. Schools will work. Health will work. This is everything I said. And I did it. [23:16] That's the way, Sheru. That's the way to work. [23:19] The leaders we've lost and people have lost trust in our leaders. That's why I always say, [23:27] we need to deal with the issue of character. The character of a leader must be consistent, [23:35] must be consistent, consistent in doing the right thing. And whatever it says, [23:40] even if you don't achieve 100% of it, Sheru, people must still represent effort in doing that. [23:47] And I said, and I repeat again, I will suffer for four years. Capital, if you want me, capital, [23:56] four years, not a day more. Why do you think that you need only [24:01] four years? Because there are those who are policy and governance experts who have said, [24:06] your definition of seven, four years or your stance of seven, four years will not get the job done. [24:13] that in the first, the first, just a moment, sir. Your first budget is not your own. [24:18] The second budget, you will struggle to make it happen. Third year, you are still trying to [24:22] understand the room. Fourth year, you are done. Is this about defeating Bola Tsunobu, [24:28] or this is just a sheer policy goal that you have set up for yourself? [24:31] Sheru, you can change and put, and start driving this vehicle for Nigeria in the wrong direction [24:41] in six months. We are headed in the wrong direction now. As it is right now. Yes. Bola Tsunobu is [24:47] leading us nowhere. That's your, you can see it. That's why I've, okay, people might say, [24:54] I called for his position. That's why maybe I'm calling for his retirement. He doesn't, [25:00] then, listen, Sheru. The man should just step aside. Yes, he doesn't have the capacity to do the job. You [25:08] don't trust him any longer. No, no, no, no, no. If Bola Tsunobu that was governor, [25:13] he's not the one that is president today, he's tired. He should be allowed to retire in peace, [25:19] and then go home. But look at, look at what Donald Trump said. Donald Trump's letter to him [25:25] is to the effect that the man has done well in terms of fighting insurgency and terrorists. [25:30] What do you say to that? Thank you to Donald Trump. Thank you to President Tsunobu, [25:37] what we need to do more. Far more than what we are doing. Sheru, I've heard people in the [25:53] national business of families say he has done his best. But what the crisis we are facing is best [26:06] is not enough. We need to do more. On Wednesday, we have done that in Zafar, and the entire community [26:21] is packing to run away. He's talking to them. So we're in a crisis situation that requires [26:36] different if you were president. I've said this several times. Sheru, I will be far more committed [26:55] in dealing with that issue. I'll fall for it. I'll be the driver. Nobody. I will visit there. I will go [27:06] there. I'll deal with it. Everybody will see it. He can't wait there not because he doesn't have the [27:16] capacity. How would you fix insecurity precisely? What exactly? Give us three things you will do [27:23] to ensure that insecurity is dealt with. First, Sheru, I will not disclose it in view from you, [27:31] but I'll be far more committed. We will ensure that our security and architecture is properly [27:41] protected. Get staffed, supported, and just tell you if you want to dissolve. Supported, [27:52] and we will ensure that we work with all our partners, and we will have much more commitment. [27:58] So you'll get foreign help. Whatever is possible to secure the country, we will do. [28:05] What would you say is, from your own point of view, would you say is the biggest and the most [28:10] concerning problem or challenge of insecurity in Nigeria today? Well, a combination of so many things. [28:20] Poverty. You can't create much poverty and think you can deal with insecurity. You need to deal with it. [28:29] The more you put the blood on poverty, the more you reduce criminality. Sheru, I will tackle that. [28:36] Sheru, I will deal with so many other issues. You need to invest in education. Massively. And you know, [28:46] I also believe in education. It will be helpful. No. You'll be moving around to ensure that at every [29:10] point you are seen to be doing the job. But you know, as a president, you might not be able to do [29:20] much of that. But you are not a president. I mean, a president, the security and the restrictions. [29:29] No good restrictions. If you think your people are dying, you should be ready to die. You are the [29:35] president. You are the number one person. So we go to the ground zero, whatever anything happens. [29:40] Whatever it takes to secure any Nigerian, I will do that. You'll be more mobile. [29:46] If you don't want to do it, you go. That's why I said you retire in peace. Go and ask. There's this [29:55] another place where we had crisis. I went there. Where we had in Dominican College, we had a situation [30:05] where a number of criminals invaded the school at night. I was there physically. I didn't ask people [30:13] to go for mock-up. I left. I was there by 3 a.m. physically. Not at this time anymore. And you can [30:20] go to other places. They will tell you. Give me a moment sir. Peter will be one in Lagos. [30:28] In the last election. Is he capable of doing it again? It will be my next question to him [30:34] after this break. You have gotten the contract. Have you checked for red flags? What is a red flag? [31:07] Allowing your company to fall into inactive status on the corporate affairs commission portal is a red [31:12] flag. Businesses marked inactive may come on the watch for suspicious activities, money laundering, [31:17] kidnapping, or terrorism finance. Red flag filed an annual return with the CAC. [31:30] Ensure your company remains active. File your annual returns every year. Corporate affairs commission. [31:38] Keeping your business safe and compliant. We offer economy doors, doors, intern doors, [31:50] still security entrance doors, customized exclusive and historical doors that is only found in [31:57] in swishtray. All the weather-based elements from swishtray doors today and enjoy 50% discount. Offered by [32:06] from limited time only. [32:08] Pairs and cables. World-class quality built to last. [33:09] Kiss me, ma. This is your 100%. [33:16] Pips, are you sure you want to spend this much on hay? Since your lalo just increased reds, [33:21] I save for this one separately on money points. [33:23] Come on. You say you save on money points? Yes. [33:26] But there are money points here. The array of your dryer there is target savings money points I used [33:33] to have it. The rest of this my stuff is fixed savings money points I used to do it. The slurry of [33:37] this my staff is same as you transact. Jennifer, money points save as you transact. Money points [33:43] fixed savings and money points target savings. [33:45] What's that? You want to contribute to you? [33:48] Why is she there? Come on for you? [33:50] Your money so I don't want to stay. You see money points I can't stay. You don't go open and save [33:55] into accounts now. How do you shoot? I beg everybody inside this my cello. [33:58] Oh, you bring out your phone and download the money points hack now. [34:02] You. What are you waiting for? Download the money points hack now. [34:06] How do you money points account? Money points made for your progress. [34:14] Thanks so much everyone for staying with us. NDC President Sheikande-Pietrobi [34:26] has been speaking with us right here on the program. Thanks so much indeed. [34:29] Why does it look like you don't get a lot of the support of most or some political [34:37] figures in the Southeast that you imagine that as an Igbo man running from that region, [34:43] you should get a lot of their support. Why so? [34:47] A lot of the, is this a political figure? [34:49] A lot of the political heavyweights from the Southeast. [34:52] Well, it depends on the ones you're talking about. You know, I think for somebody who won [34:59] the entire zone with an average of 80%, I think I'm getting all the support. [35:05] So if the big ones, the heavyweights are not supporting you, it doesn't matter. [35:09] I mean, so far you have the popularity of the vote. [35:12] Well, all over Nigeria, all over Nigeria, I don't think those who are living off the Confucian [35:22] will want to support me. So if you're bringing change, you have your enemy, all those, all those [35:30] who live off the old order. Simple. It's all over the world. When you advocate for change, [35:39] even you say we will not want change, some people are living off this old order. Some people are [35:48] benefiting from it. Some people think they will benefit from it tomorrow. But I'm going to bring [35:54] what will benefit the larger population of Nigeria. Can you name three Southeasterners that you think [36:06] that are backing you, that are supporting you? Well, this is not time to name anybody. I'm saying that [36:12] they say charity begins at home. The Southeast is backing me. That's why I have 80% of the vote. [36:19] Naming one or the other. Who do you know? Israel is calling this one important. Every Nigeria is very [36:26] important. Every one of us is very important. We are children of God. All those things you're saying, [36:32] this one is important. Either people who by grace of God, they make, maybe they make money, [36:40] which is not a measure of humanity. So as I'm crucified. Now, give us an idea of how you think [36:50] this election will panel. You must have a different strategy, don't you? 31 governance in the APC. Does [36:57] that dim your hope of going into this election and winning it? Because there are those who say, [37:04] it was by mistake. In fact, those who say, winning, you did not defeat Bolatenobu in Lagos. [37:09] It was the Muslim Muslim ticket that cost whatever happened. Do you think that was a fluke? Can you [37:16] do it again? Can you beat Bolatenobu in Lagos? Can you beat Atiku in Adamawa? Can you really, really [37:23] have a dramatic turnaround in your outing this time around? [37:27] Say, the 36 governors will support the president. So it won't be only 31. 36. I want to give [37:42] all the governors to, but 36 people in the state are not with them. Because it's a different thing [37:57] in saying the governor is supporting you. Are the people with the governor in supporting you? The answer [38:05] is no. What I'm only asking for is free, fair, and credible election, which will go down as part of [38:13] his legacy. It will go down as part of his legacy. Do you believe you won 2023 election? [38:20] Sir, I did. I did. You think you were rigged out? Yes. You think the numbers were cooked? Yes. Do you [38:30] think that this 2027 election will be free and fair? That's what I'm pleading with them. That's what [38:35] I want them to do. And that's what I'm begging the youth. Whose life at stake, whose future at stake, [38:42] to come out and join me in demanding. We are non-demanding, free, fair, and credible election. [38:52] And it will go down as part of his legacy. He has complained that he's a Democrat. He has fought for [38:59] democracy. This is time to prove it. When Yaraduah became president, he said, the process which I came [39:06] into office is 40, and I'm going to ensure that it does not happen again, even if I have to lose. [39:13] And he did it. Demonstrated it by all his actions. All the subsequent election after him, [39:21] we are free, fair, and credible. I contested second term then, and nothing happened. And when he said, [39:27] Jonathan continued in that direction. That was why people like me, Ushomole, and others, [39:35] were able to win the election as a second term. Because there were time, and eventually, [39:43] when MPC won, as president, he accepted it. He can do the same thing. He is not president. [39:52] This is time to prove his democratic creation, which is breaches, claims, and everything. [40:00] This is important for Nigerians to know what people really stand for, what you want to do differently. [40:24] Opposition is looking at you. You have contacted us under different political parties. You've got [40:32] from APGA, PDP, Labour Party. Your critics argue that your political journey says your loyalty is [40:42] from any party. Two political heavyweights have done the same movement, including the president, [41:00] from AC to... From AD to AC, AC to ACN, ACN to APC. You are the one now. [41:12] But that was not a movement. It was a MOF. No, no. The party MOF. [41:16] Whatever you call it. It is your own choice. So everybody has been moving. So it's not peculiar to me. [41:24] I'm saying that was actually not a movement. That was a party that was transforming from one thing to [41:29] the other. Thank you. That was a party that was transforming. This is a person that is also [41:35] transforming. So it was all transformation that we are moving. So for me, there was not... There's no [41:43] party that have today in ideology in Nigeria. So you don't believe in ideology? No, no, no. [41:50] I said there's no. Otherwise, the ideology of APC would be if you're corrupt and you move to APC, [42:01] you're no longer corrupt. So most of the political parties are the same. [42:06] Basically. So it doesn't matter where you are. Basically. What we are looking for with important [42:13] change, and with Nigerians we look at, is the competence of the person, the capacity, the compassion, [42:27] the character and commitment. Whoever I find myself, I've continued to preach that I'm going to change [42:36] here. And those things you're saying will come if you have a good person in office. For example, [42:45] part of my movement because the people in government have refused to have stability within the politics. [42:53] I will support opposition. I will encourage opposition. I will ensure that opposition parties [43:03] function as good as party in government. Is the government of the day doing that? [43:09] No, they are doing the opposite. Are they killing opposition? The president said that it's happy [43:16] when opposition are having problems. That is the world. And all these people are doing it. And because [43:24] of it, they are destroying the leadership. They are destroying the judiciary. If I'm president today, [43:36] most of the things we have seen in our polity will not exist. I will encourage strong opposition parties [43:46] to emerge. I will ensure, remove some of the restrictions that are happening today, where [43:53] even the regulator INEC is interfering in party activities. Their job will be strictly to ensure [44:00] that they conduct free, fair and credible elections. The parties are free to choose with their candidates, [44:08] who they want to present. And I will ensure that once after election, I will take the law [44:15] to the national assembly. After election, you cannot change your party. You can only change your party [44:24] during the election. In the election, if you change your party, the party that won that election will [44:29] replace you immediately. Within 48 hours. That's what you have all over the world. So you bring sanity [44:39] in all this transcality that is happening. But one criticism is repeatedly levelled against you is that [44:44] instead of helping to build enduring political institutions, you move to whichever platform [44:50] best advances your presidential ambition. How do you respond to Nigerians? [44:55] How many parties have I moved? They go and put fire in this one. You'll be on the ballot at the [45:00] presidential level three times down on three different VP. No, I went from PDP when it is no longer, [45:08] it has nothing to do with presidential. When the things were no longer being done according to the rules, [45:16] I left PDP. One day you see my write-up why I left PDP, and I went to levelled. And they came there, [45:25] same group of people, inserted fire on it, and wanted me to stay there and get bombed. And I moved to [45:32] EDC. And they have, and I moved to EDC. Since I went to EDC, and they have carried dead fire all over the place. [45:39] You know? But why don't you stay to earth build? What are you going to do? You always like to go to [45:44] where things are safe and easy. No, sir, they put this building on fire now, and you will leave to where it is safe. [45:53] Simple. That's what is happening. Why should party members in the EDC think that you will be committed to the [45:59] party? That in any little crisis you have, you will leave. If everything is conducive, if there's no problem, [46:06] why would they believe? That's why I said, I, as president, will encourage the five opposition parties. [46:13] Let me tell you, show you, what is happening in EDC now, happening in NDC, happening in Labour, [46:20] will never happen if I'm president of Nigeria. Anybody that tries to do it, even the judiciary, [46:29] giving us some ruling, you will see what will happen. We must build institutions, and those institutions [46:35] must allow fairness, because I want a strong opposition. I want to have ideas of the opposition. [46:41] I want to invite them to a meeting when we discuss Nigeria. So, if I'm in office, and face the crisis [46:47] we are facing in the north today, I'm going to invite all opposition leaders to the north who go there, [46:55] sit down with the stakeholders, and find solutions to this. That's what you do. Precisely. We cannot be doing [47:02] things that we think that somebody is in the opposition. We are only competing during elections. [47:08] After elections, I'm in charge. I will invite everybody. But give me an idea what keeps you awake [47:18] at night about NDC and its legal problem. This logo and identity problem. There are those who think [47:24] that that might be a problem of you being able to run this. It's not a problem. It's something that [47:30] has been dealt with. It's the same thing I'm telling you. The matter is still in court. No, no, no. [47:36] Even that has been dealt with in the previous judgment before their registration. But unfortunately, [47:43] because people are thriving in this confused system, they want to bring it back. You cannot bring it [47:50] back to the back door and everything. Let's do it. Even Agar, what does it pretend? It's a very [47:57] straightforward thing. So you have to observe things should go well. It is even being now, [48:03] being challenged by a non-political party, an organization and everything. Why do we like [48:10] Confucian? She will not encourage Confucian. As governor of Anambra state, She will, it was the most [48:18] peaceful eight years of Anambra state. You know Anambra before I became governor. It was very [48:24] troublesome. It was very decent. In eight years, I was able to work there. My 30 members of my [48:31] House of Assembly were PDP. Three senators of Anambra were PDP. Eleven House of Red Member under me was [48:41] PDP. I worked with them. Go and ask all of them. When we do this second-term election, you can go and ask [48:49] anybody. But you were not able to conduct local government elections. No, because there were a [48:53] lot of litigation. This is what I didn't mention you. There were a lot of courts, [48:58] litigations from different groups, from different things, which are things I couldn't control. [49:03] But I can tell you, during my second-term election, saying, go and ask anybody. Or even before that, [49:12] right, Oba Sanjo came to campaign for Aniruba and accompanied him to the campaign. Everybody was [49:24] there. My own House of Assembly, passport of no confidence on me. I was inside that house. I [49:32] didn't quarrel with them. And I followed them to places. ACN, my second-term, ACN people came to [49:40] campaign for Dr. Chris Singide. Fashola is still there. Fashola called me, was the governor. I gave [49:48] them my vehicle. He came. Everybody came and campaigned for Dr. Chris Singide. There was no issue. [49:55] Dr. Chikaru came to campaign for Future Punifeng. In fact, when he finished the green campaign, [50:03] I gave them lunch. They ate the miles. And go ask, former speaker, let me remember his name, [50:12] from Southwest. Femme Bajabi Amela. No, no, no. Former defense. That Dimej Bankole. Go ask Bankole. He came to do [50:24] primary for PDP in Anambra state. I seen where he ate lunch. I was the governor. He was for my [50:32] health. He went to do. So I brought her money. It was peaceful. Nobody was more than a Muslim. [50:39] That you can do. That's the type of... At the national level, you will replicate that. [50:44] Straight away. You don't mind if there is a majority [50:47] in the national assembly that are not of your political party. They will see it. [50:51] And those people, one of the governors came there and asked my speaker, why people, he said, [50:55] when you work with this man, we're talking about the future of our society. The future will benefit [51:01] everybody. Let's talk about what you will do differently in your manifesto. But I'd like you [51:06] to clarify this and probably lay it to rest. The narrative about you never building a school, [51:12] during your time as governor in Anambra state. Can you clarify it once and for all? [51:17] Mr. Apitoobi, did you build any school? If not, why so? I built modern schools. [51:25] Which way are the schools that you built? Okay. Let me even start from the tertiary institution. [51:30] I built, if you go to today, Odume Gojuku University, which is our state university. [51:42] There's a place called Ibarian Campus. I cut the grass. You know what I mean? It was a bush. [51:55] I leveled the bush. If you go there from faculty of law, faculty of agriculture, faculty, [52:03] I built all of them from scratch. From scratch. I built the fastest teaching institute in this country. [52:11] In all kinds, the fastest. The Medical and Dental Council closed down our faculty as I was assuming [52:23] office and said, we cannot continue College of Mercy because they have no teaching what to do. [52:30] And I said, no, we have people who are already in their third year. I'm going to build it for them. [52:36] Give me two years. So we are building from scratch. I can go on and on. When I became governor, [52:43] there was no single school of nothing, midway free, laboratory scientists, lab tech that was [52:55] accredited by the council that is supposed to accredit them. Right on my left, they will ever tell. [53:05] Go there and see the buildings. When I came in, look at the land where we were in education. [53:15] I bought it for number one. I did not just build schools, say we are equipped them. To date, [53:23] I don't know whether it changed yesterday. I bought the highest number of desktop computer ever bought [53:31] by a government in South-Saharan Africa, in South-Saharan Africa. In Anambra. In Anambra state. [53:41] Go and check. Go and call HP. Call international account. Go and look at the... I put internet [53:50] in all our secondary schools. I can go on and on. No other state has been able to buy vehicles [54:00] for all their secondary schools. More generators for them. I'm talking about all my secondary schools. [54:10] I can go on and on. You're always talking about the performance of Anambra state in education. [54:14] In health. In every other... And your critics have said that you... that they say you champion [54:21] miracle centers during your time. Hence the results showed I passed away. When your predecessor [54:28] sanitized the place, the poor results showed. I said, you know, when I talk about things, [54:36] I talk about verification. Can they show you the miracle centers? Check the schools that drove our [54:44] results at schools like Denny's Memorial Grammar School in Onitcha. Christ's the King College, [54:51] Onitcha. KRUC Onitcha. I can call the schools. These are first-class institutions that are doing well. [54:57] I'll just give you an example of three. I'm inviting you. I'm in Onitcha tomorrow. Come and show you all the [55:05] schools. When people... I don't, you know, I don't want to compare... I don't call names. I don't compare [55:12] one government to another. What I did is what I'm telling you. What I did, I just showed you now. [55:18] Every school had a lag for me. I visited the schools. I did everything. Every senior professor had my phone [55:28] number. He was working. I was going there. I was encouraging them. Do you still know them by name? [55:33] Do they still call you up to now? Of course. Most of them still send me texts. Yes. Up to now? Yes. [55:39] Do you know them by name? Not by name, but I know them senior professors of this school, [55:44] senior professors of that school. That's what I knew. No. And then we were working together. [55:49] I was visiting their schools. Go and ask anybody who was in secondary school when I was there. Did I visit [55:56] their school? So I encourage them. Let me ask you. Do you have a manifesto yet for the 2027 election? [56:03] Of course I had the one I used to last time, which is now being looked into and updated in line with the [56:11] realities of today. What would be your three most significant priorities that you would like to [56:17] accomplish? What would that be? One is to unite the country. The country is not united today. It's divided [56:25] among ethnic and religious lines. You must remove that and show people that we are one. Two is to secure [56:39] the country. The country must be secured. Three, you must return the country where there's rule of law [56:50] and all that. People must be sure to know that they are citizens of this country. If there's anything, [56:58] they go to our court and they will obtain justice. And then you now commence the development part. [57:08] Invest massively in education. Of course, there are people who believe in it and we will throw [57:16] everything to it. Education in health and then put people out of poverty. And that education must not [57:27] be education for the sake of it. It must be education that we have now to train people in skill. So basic [57:34] education and then skill acquisition, which will support to be entrepreneurial because one small [57:42] business is to support. Nobody today say we can start a small business. You can't start at the [57:48] five percent. The government doesn't care about the poor people. We will care about them. [57:55] All right. Give me another moment, sir. We'll go on the break. But when we come back, [57:59] Mr. Peter Obi always talks about from consumption to production. What exactly does that mean? [58:08] In a country where a lot of Nigerians are unemployed, what the Bolatonubu government will say they have [58:14] dealt with the macroeconomic side of the economy of this country. What would Peter Obi do differently? [58:19] That will be our focus when we return from this break. [58:22] Thank you, sir. [58:25] Improve infrastructure, connectivity, and innovative ideas that move our people from poverty to prosperity. [58:34] From the north to the south, across valleys, rivers, and rising skylines, [58:39] one line empowers it all. Secure, intelligent, and builds to last. [58:47] Nigeria's digital transformation is unfolding before our eyes. 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[1:01:04] This time around, let's kick off with your popular slogan, from consumption to production. [1:01:12] That is what you said. And I'd like to find out from you, that phrase is associated with you, [1:01:20] from moving from consumption to production. But there are those who have argued that it has become [1:01:25] more or less like a slogan rather than a detailed economic program. What exactly does that transition [1:01:32] look like in practical terms? So let me start with food security. This country can produce enough of [1:01:44] what we can eat. And we can actually make more money from agriculture than we make from oil. Because [1:01:55] as it is today, we have vast uncultivated large. So we're talking about, listen, the most consumed food [1:02:06] in Nigeria is rice. From my own studies is rice. And this country produces about less than 10 million [1:02:29] tons of milled rice, which will even be worse now that we have used cheap importation to kill our farmers. [1:02:42] So we can do more. And I'll just give you a comparable with large population. Or far more, more, [1:03:02] with less land space than even more, Bangladesh. Bangladesh today, Shehu, produces about 50 to 60 [1:03:18] million tons of milled rice. They are now about number three or four globally. The size of Bangladesh, [1:03:29] Shehu, is about 148,000 square kilometers of land. They have about 170 million people. So you could see [1:03:43] the density. The size of Bangladesh, Shehu, the size of our two biggest states. Niger state at 76.3, [1:03:54] Poronu at 70.8. It's actually 147. So these two is almost the size of Bangladesh. In terms of population, [1:04:06] they are about 10% of the population of Bangladesh. You could see the size of this and see what I mean by [1:04:16] production. You can't get that working with first world because people don't want us to be compared [1:04:27] with first world. Otherwise, a tiny place like Netherlands gets from export every year of agricultural [1:04:37] produce of over 120 million euros, about 130, about 120 million billion euros, which is about 130 billion [1:04:48] dollars. That is three times what we earn for more years. And they are just 33,000 square kilometers [1:04:55] where you might not, they are 41 with water, you might not water, they are 33. That is two, [1:05:02] Niger state is two and a half, two and a half the size of Netherlands at 76.3. [1:05:10] So you literally turn Nigeria into a production ground. So Niger state today is virtually occupied [1:05:18] by terrorists. When they have vast or cultivated land that is fatal, you can put resources behind [1:05:27] and turn it around and be able. And this is not just these two states. If you go, San Bisa forest is [1:05:35] giving us problems. Everybody is talking about San Bisa forest and everything. This San Bisa area is 60,000 square [1:05:43] kilometers. That's two times towards the size of Belgium. Belgium is just 30,000 square kilometers. [1:05:51] And they feed themselves and they export goods. If you, to tell you Morocco today is exporting food, agricultural [1:06:00] products. So if you go to Casablanca, to Port of Tengen on both sides, it's very large. We can turn this, [1:06:10] I can go on and on. Look at Taraba, 54 point something thousand with Mambila, where you can do tea, [1:06:20] coffee. Look at Ethiopia now, it's making over a billion dollars from export of coffee. Kenya is making [1:06:30] almost half a billion from export of flour. If you go and see during Valentine's play, it's going to, [1:06:36] and this is what we can cultivate. By doing this too, you get used to employed. I've been to [1:06:44] flower fields in Kenya. You see young people being paid a equivalent of a hundred dollars a month. [1:06:52] They're happy, they're employed. You go to coffee fields, Ethiopia, everywhere. You see young people, [1:07:00] they are being employed. They're being paid basic money. I've been to prisons here and see young people [1:07:07] and ask them, why did you do it? They say they have no job. How much were you paid in the last [1:07:11] operation? They were just paid 50,000, 100,000, which has not been justified by so many comments [1:07:19] you've heard. Even from Hakim Baba Ahmed, who said that when their relation was kidnapped, [1:07:26] that the money they always give to the small boys are taken away by one big man. So they paid those [1:07:32] small boys. So if you replace that by giving them job, you will see it. So if you go to Kano today, [1:07:43] you will find that there's a problem in Kano because all the factories that used to be in Bombay, [1:07:50] Shardang 1, Shardang 2, have all collapsed. These are things you need to... [1:07:55] What would you do specifically? You sound like you want to turn Nigeria into a food processing and [1:08:01] production? I'm just studying from agriculture. Yes. From there, you enter into manufacturing. [1:08:06] The only way you can do Nigeria out of poverty or even increase the so-called GDP you want to pursue [1:08:14] to trillion is through production, not through consumption. And that production is agriculture, [1:08:21] which will give you the food you need, give you some basic raw material for your factories, [1:08:28] give you a spot. And that you need is a win-win. Would you be shutting down importation of food? [1:08:34] Without your employer level, if you can produce it, I'll just join you a country. [1:08:40] Bangladesh used to import rice. They have not turned it, even Vietnam. There used to be importance of rice. [1:08:46] They have not turned it around. How long can it, will you take you and give us an idea? How many, [1:08:51] how many food, sorry, just a minute. How many food produce would you focus on? And how long do you [1:08:58] think it can take you to revolutionize food production? Let me tell you one thing. That's [1:09:03] why people always say, you can't eat it before you say, let's start. Let people see it. Like they said, [1:09:11] nobody achieves it overnight. As they say, Rome was not built overnight. But they saw Rome do [1:09:18] foundation. They saw it going up. So people can have hope. What drives the process is hope. It is [1:09:26] hope that gives people faith. Like renewed hope agenda. No, no, no, no. Hopelessness. You could see [1:09:33] that's not the kind of hope you're talking about. No, that one is renewed hopelessness. It's not working. [1:09:38] So the kind of hope you will bring is a real hope. People will see it. They will feel it. And I'll be [1:09:45] speaking about... Not audio hope. No, no, no, no. Real hope. Tangible hope. It's not even audio [1:09:49] name because the man we voted is not talking. That is why I keep saying we didn't vote all these [1:09:56] characters that are talking. This interesting that a leader must be speaking to the people. [1:10:03] The person we voted in this country is Bola Ahmed Tinibu. He's no longer talking. He's not going to [1:10:15] show us a rock and turned the place into a bunker. We wanted to come out of that bunker and speak to [1:10:21] the people. Because with all these characters talking to us, we didn't vote them in. I will [1:10:27] be speaking to the people. I'll be telling them I said I will do this. This is what it is. That's [1:10:34] why I said it will be commitment. Today we will say now things are going wrong. Or they have fake agents. [1:10:39] people are talking where is the man who gave our mandate it should be the one talking to you talking [1:10:47] to everybody that's the person we want to hear that the people talking are standing on the mandate [1:10:52] no they cannot not because we didn't give them the mandate we didn't it should come out of [1:10:59] the bunkers with himself to talk to us mr mr will give us an idea uh because i imagine that [1:11:07] federal government or government are not the best um uh producer of this federal government will [1:11:15] produce we will encourage the private sector we will encourage entrepreneurship we will encourage [1:11:21] small businesses so the first thing you do in a country is encourage small businesses every [1:11:30] developing even developed world the biggest employer of labor is small businesses then you go to the [1:11:37] developing world is this go and compare us with indonesia we are spending weeks learning what [1:11:45] they are doing today 90 of the job in indonesia is from small businesses those small businesses [1:11:57] are supported by government the administration of small businesses they are supported by government [1:12:03] and ensuring that they get loan at less than 10 percent that's only about five percent how can you do [1:12:10] small business no government support no training nothing at 35 percent it's impossible we need to [1:12:19] train our young ones in scale support them financially to start a business and everything even in china [1:12:30] that we look at every day 60 percent of the job overall in china is for small businesses in fact in urban [1:12:39] area so if you look at the china have about 800 million people employed so 480 million the small [1:12:46] businesses in urban area is actually up to 80 percent that's what we are talking yeah so when we talk about [1:12:55] production there's you support small businesses support big manufacturing firms and everything [1:13:03] create environment find out even visit the factories see what is happening and then listen to them [1:13:11] that's what it is look look you you talk about ivory coast and one thing that comes to mind [1:13:17] ivory coast no no i'm no i'm i'm just giving an example okay if you talk about ivory coast one thing that [1:13:22] code of war you one thing that comes to mind is cocoa uh you think about uh ethiopia you talk about sesame [1:13:31] you talk about coffee uh and you mentioned several other countries and you will be able to identify [1:13:38] them with a produce with a product that that that country is producing in your own dream of nigeria [1:13:45] what would you want nigeria to be identified as an exportable uh product to the rest of the world [1:13:52] with what you're eating first so that you can reduce the impact can you give us five things or [1:13:58] or even three things that you think that nigeria on that peter will be if you become president [1:14:03] what are the three things i'll give you one example i don't even need three rice you think we can [1:14:09] produce rice consume rice and export the rest of the rest of the world why not why not how would you [1:14:17] achieve it how many tons do you how many farmlands how many uh companies do you think you can get to [1:14:22] work what is the measurable indices for you to make this happen if if if a tiny country like indonesia [1:14:32] sorry bangladesh can do 50 to 60 million tons almost 10 times what we can do that means we can produce [1:14:43] more by supporting our farmers there's so many other products we are have the advantage of dealing with [1:14:54] what we need to show is to secure the country ensure the right farmers go back use it because one [1:15:02] your agriculture is huge employment area then you go to manufacture to build your economy you must have [1:15:17] a strong manufacturing base and you must export your way that's what other nations have done as a [1:15:24] business man if you want to start a business right now i imagine that you do your analysis you do your [1:15:30] survey you do your business plan you will prospect that business do you have a measurable plan of how [1:15:37] you want to change things around in terms of say you've said it of all those who wants to serve and [1:15:43] those who are certain nobody has my background i've built a business from scratch to where it is [1:15:56] do you have a plan for nigeria so i know what to do to support small business what would you do [1:16:04] no no i know what to do to support small businesses i know what they need [1:16:09] i've operated in the corporate world so i know what is happening within the corporate world including the [1:16:15] banking and manufacturing because i've been involved in manufacturing companies i know what they're [1:16:20] going through i've been involved in governance so nobody has had my vast experience so i know for [1:16:28] example that the cost biggest cost of manufacturing today is interest rates power this these are things [1:16:39] i'm going to work on so i know the things that is keeping would you drive interest rate down but [1:16:48] but these are determined by it's a set standard within the uh within the uh so you know how to go [1:17:00] about i know what to do it then brings me to this question you have criticized aspects of the current [1:17:06] economic reforms but many economies have argued that subsidy remover and exchange rate reforms were [1:17:13] unavoidable mr obi how different i have implemented it and i campaigned that i will remove it and i said [1:17:22] it every day that within the subsidy there was a criminal or corruption side of it which needed to [1:17:34] eliminate to eliminate in order to know the actual subsidy in a gradual organized removal and replacement [1:17:50] with investment in other areas by the way we're separating us from what is happening now they just [1:17:57] called it different because they're not talking about seven trillion under recovery or whatever name [1:18:07] because so the active is still next to the people even if well is going to increase from say 200 or 300 [1:18:40] to 1000 i who is elected not via spokesperson not via any other channel will come out and say this is why [1:18:54] it will happen that is happening that we are still going to pay this amount to make it 1000 and whatever [1:19:06] we are serving we are going to put it in this place people will hear it from me i didn't say i'm going [1:19:14] to engage anybody no engagement of spokesperson no minister nobody it's me that they gave their vote [1:19:21] it's me that will speak about it no not hear anybody and it will be seen everybody will know that this [1:19:31] we are told we will stop borrowing that we cannot be borrowing to for this we will use the savings in [1:19:44] critical area of development can you can you ask us borrowing borrowing borrowing as a financial person [1:19:51] is it a bad thing say wait today we are not paying subsidy say we borrowed more far more than when we are paying [1:20:01] subsidy so we have generated more revenue from every yes nobody is seeing any improvements what we've done [1:20:17] is that when this government started number of people that are poor we're 87 million now we are being [1:20:25] told that we have been threatened by 79 percent which is 181 million which they have doubled the poverty [1:20:33] raised so where is the savings where is all this we are brutal in imposing hardship for people yet they have [1:20:43] no gain for their suffering so there are with nobody we need explanation contractors today we have operating [1:20:54] three year budgets 2024 2025 2026 the past two year budget the the capital releases are not up to [1:21:06] 10 percent and 2026 nobody knows whatever the only thing here every day is one fake ministry [1:21:14] one fake uh agency one fake uh this is what is happening here give me an idea mr pilobi uh this [1:21:23] government seems to have done a few things right on the microeconomic side but the microeconomic [1:21:30] a few of the indicators are not in the positive do you acknowledge that they've done [1:21:36] uh foreign exchange uh there's an improvement in in in those areas uh and you look at what is impact [1:21:45] on the average manager do you think they have done well sure this can this thing can benefit [1:21:53] portfolio investors it can invest it will benefit those who are portfolio investors that's i'm saying you [1:22:03] can benefit them because you have high interest rates you have a reserve that they can take back [1:22:08] their money so they can come on but what we are looking for share we want long-term investment that [1:22:17] will be a win-win for the poor people for the foreigners and this can only happen when you choose when you do [1:22:27] the writings starting from the format so you don't do things that are benefiting the one percent even [1:22:36] less than one percent nigerians who already had enough so what you're doing is that you're creating [1:22:44] mass poverty while they're reaching the tiny things and outsiders which are not against if you win election [1:22:54] today uh in the 2027 mister will be you will be inheriting this economy yes are you have you given [1:23:01] a deeper thought on what you will do because nigerians will not want to listen to any excuse [1:23:07] you know the state of things what would you do on your very first day in office so that would [1:23:13] dramatically change things i've said it before you don't you are not hired to give people excuse [1:23:19] because i have an idea what it is i'm not going to give them excuse they will just see things start [1:23:25] changing when when they were removing first subsidy when they were stabilizing the night floating the [1:23:33] naira which will bring in a lot of money and everything when they were increasing taxes when [1:23:40] they were indeed isn't wanting that is not due which is what you need to do immediately and drastically [1:23:48] is to do the same brutality in which you are dealing with this to deal with corruption you think this [1:23:57] car this government is corrupt oh no look at it now fake ministry first fake fake agency fake this [1:24:05] every day is the government corrupt or the leadership of this country no no no i don't know what is [1:24:10] happening we have a mess we have a mess nobody's explaining to us let me give you an example they [1:24:17] say that in 2025 show 2025 that we granted 34 trillion custom weathers you saw it so how can you budget 54.9 [1:24:34] trillion call it 55 trillion and then there's 54 trillion weathers even the revenue custom made was just [1:24:42] seven point something trillion so we we we granted almost over four times your revenue as weather and [1:24:51] we granted over nearly 80 over 70 percent of our budget as weather the money we borrowed so these are [1:25:00] things that are explaining what is the impact of this weather on the life of average nigeria do you [1:25:07] we will feel to be we will feel to be the be the man who will tax the poor to help the i mean tax the [1:25:13] rich to help the poor basically that's what you will do i will do that and i will explain it to them [1:25:19] you will tax the rich for the poor to be comfortable it's not for the poor to be comfortable don't be [1:25:24] to decide to work with everybody what do you do if i have if i'm going to grant waiver when custom is making [1:25:35] say 8 trillion and i'm going to grant waiver of 10 trillion which is almost 100 percent more than 100 [1:25:43] percent what they're doing i will explain it to the public not talk of 100 400 percent without the [1:25:52] explanation which included importation of food and kill my farmers i would not use the resources to [1:25:59] support my farmers and make them more productive we have talking it's almost over 70 almost 8 percent [1:26:18] of our gdp which country can give eight percent of its gdp as weather without the special so imf came [1:26:28] and said we have unexplained 8.8 trillion that it was after budget again nobody's explaining it you have [1:26:39] somebody coming to speak and saying when will nigeria start hearing the voice of the man they voted for [1:26:46] that's why i said it is time for him to say i have tried my best let me go for my rest have peace let [1:26:56] me ask you quickly before we go on another break the electricity challenge is a big deal and without [1:27:03] it the manufacturing sector even our society will not run well every presidential candidate over the last [1:27:09] years have promised stable electricity yet decades later nigeria's thing struggles i'd like you to give [1:27:16] nigerians tonight a realistic timeline not a political promise how would you ensure that nigeria will [1:27:25] experience reliable stable 24-hour electricity under a p2b presidency and how long will it take you to [1:27:33] achieve this we will not give them i will not sell them i'm going to give them reliable stable stable 24 [1:27:41] hours within four years is impossible because if you want to build a power plant it will take you about [1:27:50] four years to build a power plant if you want to build improve our transmission line and improve it [1:28:00] it will take you a number of years same thing goes with all your discussion but remember i said within [1:28:08] four years we'll be able to generate more than 10 000 we are doing today we're generating more than 10 000 [1:28:18] but we are not able to transmit that i said we'll be able to generate not less than 10 000 transmit and [1:28:27] distribute that and we're going to do it by a variety of means we're going to do it through variety of means [1:28:35] they're doing it everywhere all over the world embedded power you went to egypt yes the lessons that you [1:28:42] taught what specific thing would you do let's assume in the first let me let me give you an example of [1:28:51] what geometric is doing in our back you need to replicate that in different areas in canu for [1:29:00] example where you have a problem with poor generation to drive the industries in vampire shadow one [1:29:08] should i learn to you in that imagine doing that in about four or five locations here are two things [1:29:17] we need to do and today we are only four generating companies three years of man every day you reach oh [1:29:27] government have to pay them government is very important to pay them government we have to pay them when [1:29:35] you promised and said in four years if i don't give you 25 votes for me so the man who promised is not [1:29:51] even telling us why he's not bringing people to say they are sorry or they explain to us what i'm saying [1:30:00] our politics must change if we vote peter will be peter will become and tell us why he's not delivering what [1:30:09] he promised what i'm promising she will deliver we are going wrong even before he gets to that state [1:30:17] i'll come and explain it and tell people what is going wrong well give me a moment we'll go on another [1:30:24] break but when we come back you know mr peter will be he's the man who says that he wants to cut [1:30:30] costs of governance for example will he be flying those planes in the presidential fleet if not what will [1:30:38] he be doing how else will he cut costs of governance that's going to be our focus after now [1:30:47] know what's happening across nigeria's various regions and channels television's newsroom series [1:30:53] every monday we bring you stories from the southwest and on tuesday the northwest is our focus [1:31:00] we're in the south south for midweek reports on wednesday and later in the week the north central [1:31:06] takes center state the southeast gets the spotlight on fridays and we close out the week for the northeast [1:31:12] on saturday watch newsroom series 3 p.m monday to saturday only on channels television africa is rising [1:31:22] and we are rising with her every day there's a new story a new challenge a new discovery and a new victory [1:31:32] for 30 minutes monday through friday we bring these to you from abuja to akra and from nairobi to addis [1:31:44] network africa connects the dots giving you a full picture and bringing the continent closer to you [1:31:50] network africa days at 4 30 p.m only on channels television moments [1:32:05] and then when we finish we will deal with militants and start recruiting you know reforming them and [1:33:38] everything the same thing we will look at everything and then when we finish we will deal with it this [1:33:46] that's what i said i've never said oh now the cameras they said go and look at these comments i was one of [1:33:57] those called names but that's not my issue but they say you have never condemned the activities of ipod [1:34:04] the killings the attacks and all of that so when check my record i said are you able to condemn them [1:34:13] around right now those killings remember whoever is killed anybody is a criminal including ipod once [1:34:23] you get the proof that they did it they're doing what is wrong simple this is me do you think in [1:34:29] amdekanu's activities or in some of these actions were wrong of course yes yes when you if you become [1:34:40] president would you do something different about in amdekanu's case you said the man did not do anything [1:34:45] everybody it cannot be criminalized because no no no no no no remember what i said they're holding [1:34:52] their final they said he spoke i wouldn't do it i will go out i will take them to court i wouldn't even [1:35:00] go outside to arrest anybody if they're in any country like they've done with the other man i'll [1:35:07] complain to that country and say these people are destabilizing what we're doing we follow the law [1:35:15] if the court grants them bail we'll obey it doesn't matter whether they're ebbo or also yoruba it [1:35:20] doesn't matter where they're coming from is the war or anything i will give them due process of the [1:35:26] law would you forgive in amdekanu if the law if i take them to the court would you grant them [1:35:38] if i follow the process and that is possible i will do that not just him the law has to apply [1:35:48] even to me we must do things according to rule of law we cannot stay in a country where [1:35:55] court grants people bail we said no god does it said no if god grant you say if god grants you bail [1:36:08] you go home if i feel you are we cannot manage it we can you can go to your house and we secure your [1:36:18] house there's other people who can hold you on house arrest but we cannot put you in attention [1:36:26] where you don't have access to your family are you able to forgive kenneth okonko i don't have an [1:36:32] issue you're you've taken for god me you sued him no so i sued kenneth not because of what he's saying [1:36:43] he said there are things he will say that can that will be worse so i'm only sure to say those things [1:36:55] so we cannot continue to preach what we are not i want those who have things that p2b have gone wrong [1:37:05] that will make him not to be president of nigeria to bring it out you know i'm a i'm a christian i'm a [1:37:12] catholic when we go to march we announce in the church if you know what will not make this man to [1:37:18] be a good horse man come and tell them so that's kenneth okonko say he has informations that he will [1:37:24] release to the public and that will be the end of p2b and that's so you might even have some so i want [1:37:32] you to bring it out because otherwise before people in when they go in without saying oh they did this [1:37:38] they did this this is time for everybody to come and say what people be this that is wrong and if [1:37:45] it's proven i go home the the the claims that you rather than that i don't have any truth yeah the [1:37:51] claims that you you kept money in safe havens as released in the panama papers what are you able to [1:37:58] still yeah there was something let me remember what it's called there's nothing is a clear a clear [1:38:10] and well articulated family service client is documented it's not something that is so the money [1:38:21] is yours ah so it's documented and it's still there now in the tax haven there's nothing quarter seven [1:38:32] i open an account while i live in the uk and start saving for what i call family estate if you go [1:38:41] there every year maybe maybe this year because i don't have an income i save a portion of my income [1:38:48] then when i was governor i say for a number of states so as an individual i'm saving for my family [1:38:56] not the culture we should build but i should be encouraged change you see we go into things that are not [1:39:03] this thing so if some people have said oh maybe it shows your corrupt or maybe what can you come [1:39:13] for any other person who say change no thief sees what they can steal and leave it that's why even when [1:39:19] you go to church you say mind your phone not because those people didn't come to church but because they [1:39:24] have the temptation that if they see what they can see they still leave it but it is it is a code of conduct [1:39:30] issue mr b what was released in the pandora paper that you did not disclose it did you declare it was [1:39:37] clearly declared when you were governor no no code of conduct did not say that i said if you own a house [1:39:45] in the uk offshore assets i said let me tell you now it didn't show that if you own a house in the uk [1:39:54] you should sell it immediately you became governor it's not true let me tell you i listed my assets [1:40:01] overseas it will shock you code of conduct actually said they will go and investigate it and they went [1:40:11] and saw it so leave that you see everybody wants to investigate ptobi say we are left 150 million dollars [1:40:22] can any other person who finished here come and say where he left nobody asked me to save him dollars [1:40:29] but why why is it that your your your uh successors never appreciated it do we appreciate the honest [1:40:38] in nigeria do we appreciate what is the good in nigeria it's a country that has become criminalized [1:40:45] that even those who are honest are not the ones who are suffering so if you come and show it to you the [1:40:51] money i saved in anambra state that dollar if it was there today it would have been almost getting [1:40:57] to a billion dollars but you and your family benefited also in some of the investments you made [1:41:01] for example in the brewery how didn't didn't you you said it yourself that the the some of the shares [1:41:11] were bought with in the name of the family business we're not that we are is i going to say i bought [1:41:18] share in a bank and i asked the company and i asked the player to put money there are you a director [1:41:23] in that same company how do you how do i put money i save money you don't think that it's a conflict of [1:41:29] interest no no no no no no no no no i saved the money if you did a part of the i have three banks [1:41:35] i said the money which included fidelity i have a muscle shout out of fidelity so what is what is [1:41:42] conflict of interest need let other people save even in the house and give it back to us you see [1:41:49] that i'm telling you you share it as journalists you push to encourage what is right i saved the [1:41:56] money other people took it other people like took it they never saved their time [1:42:05] you will tell you are not corrupt tell me i said go and show me where their money is missing there are [1:42:11] other people show me another person who saved if you can show me somebody who saved 15 million [1:42:18] dollars 10 of what i said so you were a rich man before you came into power of course yes [1:42:25] today today by us and global not just let me take you to one of the things that you preach very well [1:42:32] that look people who are in public office you talk about uh office of the first lady that you you don't [1:42:40] believe in it so you are not going to have a office of the first lady you talk about a cost of [1:42:45] governance when you were governor you did not believe in having a liaison office in abuja or lagos [1:42:51] you stopped it almost a billionaire worth of investment you said that is not going to happen [1:42:57] the presidential fleet you you don't you don't you don't seem to like that idea [1:43:03] if you become president what would you do differently in terms of cutting of course of [1:43:07] governance there's too much waste in our governance there's too much corruption there's too much [1:43:14] that's why people are fighting to go to office so any country where people in office are richer than [1:43:20] their businesses there's something wrong anywhere where businessmen in the country sees people in [1:43:28] government that's more important than them that place is not working so you have drastically cut [1:43:33] the cost of government how would you do that what would you do let me give you an example [1:43:37] our president bought planes for 300 billion over 300 billion that year the most important measure of [1:43:49] development sharing quality of them education and health and when you come to health the most [1:43:57] important sector of health is primary healthcare the cost of the planning called the board was far [1:44:07] more than the amount budgeted for primary healthcare that year in fact the cost of that plane if you go [1:44:17] to 2024 budget right the capital vote for university of hebado teaching hospital which is our premier [1:44:27] teaching hospital university of nigeria i want to take it to one at least six of them put together [1:44:48] is not up to 15 billion so he used 20 percent of that to buy play which he rarely used so i will not do [1:44:57] that what if you if you become president what would you do with that feeling please now don't worry [1:45:04] what i do would you fly a cancer center a cancer center a complete cancer center today with all of [1:45:11] clothing and everything is about five billion and we have less than 12 in this country of over 200 million [1:45:20] people a third of that money we will buy 20 new cancer centers what are we talking we must shut down [1:45:29] days waste and deal with issues that we'll protect our people who serve our people properly i will [1:45:38] have cut costs of governance i've done it in the state in my first ten or first four years of being [1:45:46] governor i use four osis from beginning to the end go and verify four not bulletproof no no four [1:45:55] four osis you're talking about four osis you're talking about bulletproof which where will you buy [1:46:00] have you ever seen forces bulletproof before so if you become president you will not you're not writing [1:46:04] a bulletproof no no no no i will i will use this but i'm saying i'm giving you an example where i didn't [1:46:10] before you just said it that i i showed that i don't know if it in abuja because it would cost [1:46:16] lots of money we didn't have money to keep it i do not see the reason why governor of alan brasil [1:46:21] should have a house in abuja we used to in american system go and show me any state in america where [1:46:27] the government will have a lodge in washington what are you talking saying to start being realistic it [1:46:33] costs more this place to keep our government officials than it costs overseas so our office of the [1:46:42] first lady you will cancel it there's nothing called office of first aid anywhere in the world [1:46:48] not even in america so it's in the name with you i said not even in america it's in name it's just [1:46:54] something you call first lady it doesn't even have which is what is office of this lady did we vote [1:47:00] husband and wife that's what i'm saying you must dismantle all this nonsense the person seeking for [1:47:07] today is pto b not to mr and mrs obi and that's why i said i'll be communicating my wife will remember [1:47:15] my wife is first lady and we are close a lot of that but not to to come and have another separate [1:47:22] office again and then maybe moving around creating additional confusion it's me that is being voted in [1:47:30] so i can deal with things i promise the people the presidential fleet we have about 10 there are some [1:47:37] that are unserviceable and there are those and the reasons why they said they bought a new one [1:47:43] what would you do in that would you be flying economy or what i mean it doesn't would you be flying [1:47:48] private it doesn't matter it depends on where i'm going we can have for example say there's so many [1:47:57] registered airline of the nigerian name it is nigerian is there like we are going to places you can [1:48:05] encourage mandela came to uk with south african awaits that at least i know famous mandela and [1:48:14] there's so many people so many visitors that are coming here it doesn't cost you so you will not use [1:48:20] this uh three uh this this new brand new presidential let me not say we are will cut costs but i can tell [1:48:29] you who got costs we've done it before in an umbrella state everybody saw it and it works and we can do it [1:48:37] because we need money for education one of the recurring criticism from your critics especially [1:48:45] those who are economists policy analysts and factor is that your vision is not about your vision is about [1:48:52] the accuracy of some of the statistics and international comparisons that you cite they [1:48:57] argue that your figures occasionally lack context or rely on different reporting periods can you create [1:49:04] misleading impressions how do you respond to those who say your strongest political asset your command [1:49:10] of number is also one of your biggest vulnerabilities can you give an example they talk about how you [1:49:16] cite china and some of those figures that you mix those figures how you cite no no no figures of [1:49:22] Malaysia and people like talking just you know in nigeria because we live on the confusion people like [1:49:30] confusion if you say p2b is wrong i'm not saying i'm perfect i'm elena a leader must be a listener and [1:49:38] elena so if they tell you they didn't give you the particular figure or the particular this and then we [1:49:46] compare it you know this yesterday somebody came to me and said oh our foreign reserve is we're doing so [1:50:05] well i said well i said well i can i have when i met the cdn governor in location i thanked him for his [1:50:17] monetary policy i told him i said you're headed in the land in the right direction but the physical [1:50:24] side is still reckless and as long as they remain reckless whatever you're achieving is being undermined [1:50:31] but continue doing what the day and i thank you and i believe this is from my heart but i told the [1:50:38] person but it's not something we should celebrate as if we have won the world that in 1975 so this [1:50:50] country 74 75 had more reserve than china than south korea today modern if i didn't you can say we have [1:51:06] double them buddhist buddhist country in 1974 we lent money to imf world bank nigeria and the country 74 [1:51:19] in 75 that we have more money more reserve than these two countries today china have a reserve of over [1:51:29] 3.5 trillion south korea they have a reserve of over 400 billion dollars so we shouldn't say 50 is good [1:51:48] we're happy but don't throw it as if we've won the world cup no no no no we've not right we're just [1:51:56] trying to come out of probably our own mess i compared again i said if you look at these two [1:52:03] countries gdp uh gdp capital then we are better off today they are 10 times better than we are [1:52:12] if you see those figures who then come and check tell me if i'm wrong with this i study and then [1:52:18] but you say oh his figures are wrong what he said is not said oh this is just like they said oh he [1:52:25] but what is he talking about saving money he did not save money and his predecessor said he didn't see [1:52:31] the money saved i didn't save one in foreign banks i said it in three banks in nigeria i said the bank [1:52:39] which you have friends there i said i have 12 billion dollar there 50 million dollars fidelity bank which [1:52:46] you can go down the street and say hey this man who is selling a life said he said this but instead [1:53:03] of going to do it somebody goes to tv and say hey it's like he said that somebody said i will divide [1:53:10] nigeria the person who is saying they have not visited anywhere in nigeria she said i'm everywhere [1:53:17] let me ask because this weekend yeah yeah this weekend i've gone to from 20 to cross river to emo to [1:53:32] worry delta states the people are just in their house comfort of their house one place this [1:53:41] sometimes mail and go to tv and be calling your name and that's why the country is not working [1:53:49] because rather than celebrate and encourage merit goodness competence compassion capacity they [1:54:02] celebrate the opposite let's quickly wrap up because of our time uh what would you say is your biggest [1:54:08] lesson in 2023 well there's no lesson because they say we don't learn anything from what is wrong except [1:54:19] to say this does not happen again what i mean there are those who say that to defeat polati nobu you [1:54:27] need to coalesce to work with others are you able to work with an article abubaka or the rest [1:54:32] so i'm ready to work with everybody but my biggest group i need to work with is the use of nigeria the [1:54:40] young people of nigeria and i'm urging them to know it is about their future we cannot continue this way [1:54:47] we must build a future for them and that future will only come by electing a competent leadership [1:54:56] with capacity compassion character and commitment to do the right thing and stay with it the reality is [1:55:04] that presidency comes with tough choices and tough decisions every administration eventually disappoints [1:55:11] part of the electorate how would you community or ex communicate or explain painful reforms there's [1:55:19] painful every yes say you painful reforms must come this way you ask the people to fast you fast with [1:55:32] them you can't ask them to fast when you're feast so if you ask people to sacrifice you should be the leader [1:55:41] of the sacrifice you can't tell people i've removed subsidy you go and buy a jet for 300 billion francis [1:55:50] remove subsidy you go and buy yacht and be furnishing your palaces that's not how you do you will not do [1:56:01] that never what i said i bought for the judges the pansex everybody forces i was listening with them for four [1:56:11] years when you tell people to fast you fast with them if you tell them to sacrifice you sacrifice with them [1:56:18] you must be the leader of what you're preaching so i said when i come in yeah i will fight corruption [1:56:25] brutally and i will show you that i will leave it this will be quang kwanso for you is a big asset that [1:56:33] you think can help you win the election quang kwanso is not don't say is that said to me quang kwanso [1:56:40] is that said to nigeria quang kwanso believes in pulling poor people out of poverty a combination of [1:56:46] who tackle the issue of poverty he believes in education he believes in healthcare one also believes that [1:56:54] poor people should be given a chance and that's this country we must give the young people poor [1:57:01] people a chance to live finally the obedient movement changed nigerian politics but some [1:57:08] critics have argued sections of the movement have sometimes been intolerant of opposing views [1:57:14] have you done enough to discourage political hostility among your supporters let me tell you the [1:57:19] movement is not just my supporters the real obedient movement are people who are tired of status quo people [1:57:28] who don't like what is happening they even deal with even even when i take decisions they don't like it [1:57:34] they criticize me there are people who have been subjected to a sense where they are annoyed with the [1:57:40] entire system and you have to bear with them they are frustrated they've seen the world listen i'd go [1:57:46] around if what is happening here is that you are literally don't go around how many other times have [1:57:53] you seen senators is it's going to back to the plateau where there's bomb how many times have you seen [1:58:01] them going to idp camp how many times have you seen them going to where there's fraud i was in [1:58:07] caraba in nibi where there's fraud how many times have you seen them going to where in san fara and [1:58:13] everything your bazaar function is in npc goes to where there's a problem i go where there's a [1:58:23] problem when they were explosion in a battle we are asking martin that was there this one they did not [1:58:29] do i think that is according ask the other governors when there's issue i go to where there's [1:58:35] issue but we always stay here i want to invite them if they say that's why we have fake agencies [1:58:43] fake these and all that and all that fake employment fake police we can't live that our [1:58:50] life mr obi what would you want to be remembered for if you win the presidency for turning julia [1:59:00] around and putting it on the right path that would lead to his growth if you lose this election what [1:59:08] would you do would that be the end of the road well i would say what will happen would that be your [1:59:15] last time of running for presidency well it depends on who wins you know depends on who wins but i can [1:59:22] tell you i'm coming to the end of it because i believe that the younger ones should be allowed in [1:59:30] 2031 you'll be 69 68 actually by time it ends by 68 69 so by that it ends it's about 68 69 so if you add [1:59:44] that to another 80 years i will be 78 79 i don't think i'll have the energy i have today because that [1:59:55] capacity is very very very important it's critical mr pitobi imagine is your inauguration day what would [2:00:04] the first day look like for you well it will look like the first day i started in alambra city and [2:00:10] what would that look like a day of deep reflection and thinking what would be the first action you [2:00:19] would take no that the only action i've told you from day one cutting the cost of governance mr peter [2:00:26] gregory robie presidential candidate of the ndc it's a pleasure having you talk to ross on china's [2:00:31] television thank you thank you so much sir thank you sir appreciate it that's our conversation with [2:00:37] the ndc presidential election uh uh candidate mr peter will be as always the choice of who leads [2:00:44] nigeria belongs to the people and that choice is best made when citizens are the facts here directly [2:00:51] from those seeking their mandate and weigh their ideas against the challenges facing the nation [2:00:57] we hope tonight's conversation has helped you do just that debate about nigeria's future is far from over [2:01:04] and here on sunday politics we'll continue to ask the difficult questions tell the promises and all [2:01:10] those who seek public office to recount and thanks everyone for watching i'm sure i'll see you tomorrow [2:01:17] at 7 p.m good night and god bless nigeria igos the nation's commercial capital this is the news at 10 [2:02:24] live from channels television