Dave Smith x Tucker Carlson Full Interview — Intelligence, History & Trump’s Iran Challenge

[0:00] It's insane, it doesn't make sense, it's irrational, [0:02] getting paid, like that's always the first explanation [0:05] that people come to, and I have myself thought that. [0:08] But then if you know someone really well, [0:11] I'm not intimate with Huckabee, [0:12] but I've known him for so many, 30 years more than, [0:15] it's like I don't think Huckabee is, you know, [0:18] he's into money, I get it, [0:19] but I don't think he's like totally motivated by greed, [0:23] I just don't believe that. [0:24] No, I think there's, well, look, I think- [0:26] And I don't think he's evil, but he's defending evil, [0:28] so what is that? [0:29] I think a few things can be true at the same time, right? [0:32] So it can be that you're under a spell, [0:36] that there's a spiritual aspect to it, [0:37] and then it can also be that there's soft incentives [0:40] for you to continue being under that spell, right? [0:43] And so the history of Jewish influence, [0:50] Israeli influence, I mean, look, [0:53] obviously much of this goes back to the fact [0:57] that Jews dominated finance for many years, [1:01] and part of this was because Christians weren't allowed [1:03] to lend money and credit, right? [1:06] But there is, now there is a form, obviously, [1:08] of like abusive usury, right? [1:12] There are loan sharks out there, [1:13] there are, some of them are even credit card companies [1:16] that will charge you like 30% interest, [1:18] or 29.9, whatever they're allowed to do on, [1:21] you know, which is like kind of a crazy interest rate, [1:23] they kind of prey on desperate people. [1:25] Now, they're not necessarily, [1:26] like even the loan shark or the credit card companies, [1:29] they're just kind of benefiting off your desperation, [1:31] because it's not like, [1:32] if the credit card company wasn't there, [1:34] it's not like, oh, now everything's okay. [1:36] The reason they're putting necessities [1:38] on the credit card to begin with [1:39] is because other conditions have, you know, [1:41] led them to this desperate place. [1:43] Totally. [1:44] But the problem, so then you had, [1:46] for much of Christendom, right, [1:48] it's completely banned to lend money at any interest, [1:51] which is that, you know, I do not think is abusive [1:54] to have any interest rate on your money, [1:56] because that's actually a very necessary part of an economy. [1:58] There are people who have a very good idea, [2:01] but don't have any capital. [2:03] And then there's people sitting with capital, [2:05] and they go, well, look, I can't just give this to you, [2:07] because if you lose it, then I just lose my money, [2:10] and if you pay me back, all I've gotten is that [2:13] I get my money later, rather than having it right now. [2:16] Oh, so if you have my money, then I can't use it. [2:18] Right, right, exactly. [2:19] For whatever thing I want to build. [2:20] So there's a cost to me to lending you my money. [2:21] However, if I go, hey, I'll lend this to you, [2:24] but you pay me back a little bit of interest, [2:26] this actually really facilitates economic growth, [2:28] because, you know, or just good businesses being created, [2:32] because like, oh yeah, the guy with a good idea, [2:33] but with no capital, now can, so anyway, [2:35] so Jewish bankers ended up kind of filling this void, [2:40] and then you had very powerful Jewish groups [2:42] who became very, very wealthy in banking, [2:43] and yada, yada, a lot of things later, [2:45] banking got very, very corrupt. [2:47] But again, it's important to keep in mind, [2:49] this wasn't most Jews. [2:50] Most Jews were living in poverty. [2:52] This was, but like, the Balfour Declaration [2:54] is written to the Rothschilds, right? [2:57] Like it's not, the creation of Israel was at least part, [3:00] they had international finance backing them. [3:03] And so that's also true in America, [3:05] that much of the largest banking institutions [3:09] had some Jewish influence. [3:11] It's also the case that after the creation [3:14] of the state of Israel, you have the Mossad, right? [3:18] Or you have Israeli intelligence. [3:20] And now, Jews are smart, [3:23] and not like that much smarter than everybody else, [3:25] but they're a pretty smart group. [3:27] And then the Mossad had an advantage [3:31] over every other intelligence organization [3:33] that would really be a dream [3:35] for any intelligence organization. [3:37] But the Mossad had a diaspora of people all spread out [3:42] in the world that were Jewish, right? [3:43] And so, and also there was this wide cultural belief [3:47] amongst Jews that the Holocaust is what gave birth [3:51] to the state of Israel, [3:52] and that the state of Israel is the guarantor [3:55] of another Holocaust not happening. [3:57] And so you could very, like imagine the CIA had that. [3:59] Imagine you just had little Americans [4:01] in every single country, you know, [4:03] little groups of Americans, [4:04] maybe not every single country, [4:05] but you had pockets of them in lots of different places. [4:07] And they really passionately believed [4:09] that the existence of the United States of America [4:10] was the most important thing in the world. [4:12] What an advantage for them. [4:13] Go around, hey, find any American somewhere. [4:16] You wanna serve your country? [4:17] You wanna do that? [4:18] And so I think between finance, [4:21] between the Mossad, [4:24] and then when the neoconservatives, [4:28] who really were not old money [4:31] when they first came into it, right? [4:32] Like if you know the first generation [4:34] of neoconservatives, [4:35] they were having their debates at City College, [4:37] not at Harvard. [4:38] You know what I mean? [4:39] Like they were- [4:40] Literally City College. [4:41] Yes, these were middle class guys. [4:43] Working class, yeah. [4:44] They weren't the Rockefeller guys, [4:47] or the Morgan guys. [4:48] They weren't at the Council on Foreign Relations, [4:50] but what they did was they went, [4:51] and they made their relationships [4:53] with the military-industrial complex themselves. [4:55] And a lot of this was, you know, [4:58] the problem is that you create this empire, [5:01] you create this military-industrial complex, [5:03] this big government scheme, [5:04] and then it's right for someone to take it over. [5:07] And if you go look at, like, [5:08] every last one of those Bill Kristol think tanks, [5:13] Bill Kristol needs to have 16 think tanks. [5:15] He doesn't have a thought in his head, [5:17] but he's got all of the- [5:18] Couldn't even write a New York Times column. [5:20] Yeah, like his dad was smart for all his problems, [5:22] but Bill Kristol was never smart. [5:24] He was revered as this smart guy. [5:25] Never said anything smart. [5:26] Dan Quill's brain. [5:27] Yeah, literally. [5:28] But every last one of those think tanks [5:30] is funded by Lockheed Martin, [5:33] or Raytheon, or whatever. [5:36] So it's like, the thing is that, [5:38] a lot of times in government, [5:42] there's, it's a very different thing [5:44] to swim with the current [5:46] than to swim against the current. [5:48] You know, there's no such thing as a Fabian libertarian. [5:52] You don't, you know, you have, [5:53] you might have some hardcore communists, [5:55] and then you have like an AOC, [5:57] who's like, I want incrementally more government. [5:59] You can't get incrementally less government, [6:01] because there's no, [6:03] that's asking the government to have less power. [6:06] Now, if you're the neoconservatives, [6:08] and you come around with like, [6:09] hey, I've got a plan to fight forever wars, [6:13] you know, I've got a plan to go topple [6:15] all of these different countries, [6:16] you're gonna get some money from weapons companies. [6:18] And so, anyway, just saying, [6:20] aside from the spiritual- [6:21] How is this different from fascism? [6:21] I thought that's what fascism was. [6:23] I mean, leaving aside the anti-Semitic component [6:28] of the Nazis, which was a big component, [6:30] but the idea of fascism that the state, [6:33] you know, merges with the industrial powers, [6:37] with the private sector. [6:38] Yeah, this is what it is. [6:38] And also just swap out the Jew hatred [6:41] and make it Muslim hatred, [6:43] or make it German hatred, [6:44] or Russian hatred, or whatever it is. [6:46] You know, they always pick another thing- [6:47] Ethnic hatred, yeah. [6:48] Some ethnic hatred, so yeah, it's not, [6:49] but that's exactly right. [6:50] Fascism won. [6:51] Man, it's so ironic, [6:53] it's the same when, [6:54] sometimes when you win, you really lose. [6:55] You know, they could say on paper, [6:57] and I'm sure there's some historian, professor, [6:59] who would say, no, like, [7:00] capitalism and communism won the Second World War, [7:03] and fascism was defeated. [7:05] Except, what arose out of it was the fascist model, [7:08] for everybody, essentially, right? [7:10] Which is, and again, fascism is kind of ill-defined, but- [7:14] Kind of ill-defined. [7:14] Yeah, well, but broadly speaking, [7:16] I mean, what are we talking about? [7:17] The FDR, and the entire progressive movement, [7:23] the original progressive movement, [7:25] this is what they were advocating for, right? [7:27] It's like, we gotta get away from laissez-faire free markets. [7:31] We're not going total communist, [7:33] but we need a strong, powerful state, [7:34] powerful enough to regulate the economy and the country, [7:38] and then also fight wars abroad. [7:41] I mean- [7:42] Without majority support. [7:43] Yeah, I just don't really see what, [7:45] and we can cling to this idea of democracy, [7:49] which is always really an illusion. [7:51] You know, it's never really true. [7:53] It doesn't really, in fact, there was a study done, [7:57] I wanna say this was at Princeton, [7:58] if I'm remembering correctly, [7:59] this was like, maybe 15, 20 years ago, [8:02] but they did a study where they said, [8:04] they just concluded that we're an oligarchy, [8:06] not a democracy, [8:07] and they literally just went through it empirically, [8:08] and were like, the American people's feeling has no impact on policy. [8:12] No bearing whatsoever. [8:13] Yeah, you could say we have elections, [8:15] and if you really don't like George W. Bush, [8:17] you can vote for Barack Obama instead of John McCain, [8:20] but what'd you vote for him for? [8:23] Because he said he'd close Guantanamo Bay and end the wars. [8:25] Guantanamo Bay is still open today, [8:29] and we're on the seventh war of Wesley Clark's seven wars in five countries. [8:34] None of that stopped. [8:34] What did we get during Obama? [8:36] We got a massive escalation in Afghanistan, [8:39] we got wars in Libya, in Syria, in Yemen, [8:42] drone bombing campaigns in Pakistan, [8:45] continued the war in Iraq, ended the war in Iraq, [8:48] then reinvaded Iraq when his pet ISIS, [8:51] left over from the war in Syria, came back. [8:52] So I think you're describing the upside of all of this. [8:55] Again, I haven't slept eight hours in a month, [8:58] I'm so distressed, I'm in no sense for this, [9:01] I argued against it, obviously. [9:03] But it's happening, and this is the end of the empire as we knew it. [9:09] Hopefully it'll shrink back into something manageable that serves our interests, [9:13] but who knows what'll happen. [9:15] But we're definitely not going back to where we were a month ago. [9:18] We know that. [9:19] So what are the upsides? [9:20] Well, one upside is you might wind up at some point with presidents who want to run the United States. [9:25] No president wants to run the United States, [9:26] because why would you want to run the U.S. when you can run the world? [9:30] By the way, you don't know the people you manage when you run the world, [9:33] they don't come to your office and complain about your treatment of them, [9:36] it's like there's no cost, it's all upside, you're the king of the world. [9:41] I don't think future presidents will have that option. [9:43] And so maybe we'll get people who are like, you know, LaGuardia Airport smells, [9:47] the Miami airport is like an atrocity, maybe we should fix that, don't you think? [9:51] Yeah, yeah. [9:52] Maybe this will cause a reorientation back to what matters, which is our country. [9:57] Yeah, quite possibly, and that's the, yeah, that's really the best case scenario. [10:01] And, you know, like, I try to, well, I look at models like, you know, when the Soviet Union collapsed, right, [10:07] there's, I remember there was a, so Murray Rothbard talked about this in a speech once. [10:13] Murray Rothbard, for people who don't know, is, in my opinion, like, [10:16] the most brilliant political theorist of the 20th century. [10:20] He's a genius, and he was, you know, of course, he ended up supporting Pat Buchanan in 1992. [10:27] Yeah, yeah, I remember. [10:28] He was an economist, and a historian, and a philosopher, and so he was talking about, [10:32] I guess this was like the speech he gave shortly after the collapse of the Soviet Union, [10:35] and he was talking about how he had seen, like, a video of a Chinese family under Chinese communism at the time. [10:47] I guess maybe this was back, he was talking about from, like, before Mao Zedong died. [10:51] And he said that, you know, the interviewer asked some questions. [10:56] They were just talking about how much they loved the regime, and he said, [10:58] would you rather your kids had a, it was something like, would you rather your kids had a prosperous life, [11:04] or were loyal servants of the regime and had a very difficult life? [11:08] And he says, loyal servants of the regime and a very difficult life, no problem. [11:11] And so Murray Rothbard said he watched this, and he was like, my God, I mean, this is just so horrible. [11:15] Like, they've actually done it. [11:16] They've created the communist man and destroyed the human soul, and then he's talking to his buddy, [11:20] who's another genius who went to China a lot and was, like, a China expert, and he goes, no. [11:25] That's what they say when the cameras are there. [11:27] That's all that is. [11:29] It's like, dad doesn't believe that. [11:30] You know what I mean? [11:30] They just know this is on tape. [11:32] You can't say anything else, and so that's what you say, and then they go about their day not really caring what the regime says. [11:37] And so, like, when the Soviet Union collapsed, from all, like, I've read about it, [11:43] like, that was essentially the state of the Soviet Union was, like, no one believed the government. [11:47] They just all knew they were liars. [11:49] They all knew this was bullshit, and they were really actually... [11:51] We're in the Brezhnev era here. [11:53] Right. [11:53] And so, now, of course, the war hawks and the neoconservatives, they always viewed us luring the Soviets into Afghanistan [12:02] and getting them bogged down there fighting the Mujahideen in Afghanistan, including the foreign Arab Mujahideen [12:10] and Osama bin Laden, who we were supporting, but they always viewed this as a great success because it brought down the Soviet Union. [12:15] And I don't know enough about what factor led to what. [12:19] I mean, communism is not an effective economic system, but I'm sure the war did hurt them a lot. [12:24] I know how costly wars can be and how much they can degrade our country. [12:27] I know wars in Afghanistan can degrade your country. [12:30] So, I'm sure that was part of it, but my point is that it wasn't like America went in and toppled the USSR, right? [12:39] Like, they collapsed on their own, partly as a result of fighting foreign wars and partly as a result of, you know, [12:44] just government lying and terrible economic policies, but at a certain point, like, the soldiers just weren't willing to fire. [12:52] You know, like, there were attempted... [12:56] Counter coups. [12:56] Yes, there were attempted coups in the past where they did fire and they were like, [13:00] no, you're not leaving the Soviet Union. [13:02] But by this point in 89 or whatever it was, as the people started rising up, they were like, [13:07] we're just not, we're not doing this anymore. [13:10] They themselves don't believe it anymore. [13:12] The government... [13:13] And so, I guess it's a long way to get to what I'm saying, but, like, at a certain point, [13:18] we might just, we might hit a point where, like, the people just aren't believing this anymore. [13:24] The law enforcement, whether military or police, just aren't going to crack down on the American people in that way. [13:29] And that would maybe lead to a rise of a real president who actually ran the country. [13:34] And I don't know, I think, if I'm not mistaken, I believe in, um, when there was, like, German reunification, [13:40] they didn't, from what I understand, I don't think, they didn't really punish, like, the people in the communist government. [13:45] Oh, no. [13:45] They kept them on their pensions. [13:47] Absolutely. [13:47] They went kind of, and I feel like we almost need something like that. [13:50] I know Curtis Yarvin's talked about this a bit, but something where it's like, look, man, [13:54] I think there are some people at the absolute top who need to be criminally prosecuted, [13:59] but, like, we got to find a transition from here to there. [14:04] Like, if we're, if we're buying off bureaucrats, that would be cheaper than continuing this system. [14:09] You know what I mean? [14:10] Like, there's almost something where if a president could come up and say, like, hey, [14:13] all you guys working in the intelligence agencies who were working to undermine presidents, [14:17] you all have amnesty, but you got to pack up and go home right now. [14:21] Like, that's it. [14:22] In a weird way, we need, as you said, we need an actual president who's actually running the country. [14:28] And who can restore peace here. [14:29] I mean, I think older Americans believe their country is more united and cohesive than it really is. [14:36] You've got an entire generation of people who weren't born here, whose parents weren't born here, [14:40] who came here on the promise that can't be fulfilled, which is that, you know, of a better life economically. [14:48] And I think it's going to be tough to make good on that promise, honestly. [14:52] And so what do you do with that? [14:53] What do you do with dashed expectations at scale? [14:56] Millions of people who kind of thought they were getting something and didn't get it. [15:00] A country where half of all households get a government check. [15:04] Half of all households. [15:06] And the average age of the first-time homeowner is 40. [15:11] Yeah, exactly. [15:12] So you've got a lot of issues here, and all of our attention is there. [15:16] It's in the Persian Gulf or China or Venezuela or wherever. [15:20] But once you readjust and start thinking about how does this country deal with dashed expectations and remain coherent, [15:29] how does it prevent the rise of, like, a truly dangerous demagogue? [15:32] Yeah, yeah. [15:33] Well, also, it's not like the two – it's not just that we're focused over there, [15:37] and so we're not taking care of what's going on here. [15:39] It's the focus over there is destroying over here, right? [15:42] A hundred percent, as it always does. [15:44] Okay, so the angriest I've ever been at you was when you said that – [15:49] you said Lindsey Graham's views are war everywhere and Austrian economics at home. [15:54] And I was like, no, you're right, you're right. [15:57] No, but look, I mean, because – and it's not just – I don't care about just, like, the term, [16:01] but it's the – the idea is that essentially what's going on here – [16:05] Monopoly capitalism. [16:06] Yes, yes, but the opposite of Austrian economics. [16:09] Big government, central banking, record high government spending every single year. [16:14] And so what happens essentially is – and this is what also – [16:17] I'm so furious at this administration over this stuff, and, you know, I don't know. [16:22] You're in more of a – you're in a tougher position than I am [16:27] where you were the guy in Trump's ear trying to convince him not to do this [16:32] or one of the guys who got to meet with him and convince him not to do this. [16:35] I think the only one, actually. [16:36] Yeah, I think so. [16:37] Well, the last one is no longer with us. [16:40] So, you know, there's that. [16:43] And – yeah, yeah. [16:46] So, but, you know, so the thing is, like, me – like, I'm no good at being a political strategist. [16:51] Like I said, I'm just good at being a podcaster. [16:53] Sorry, I just had a flash of rage that was so intense. [16:55] I lost my vision. [16:56] No, I understand. [16:58] Well, it's worth it. [16:59] There's some things worth being that angry over. [17:00] I'm sorry. [17:01] But so, you know, I kind of go – I don't know political strategy stuff, but I go, [17:06] I think you should just, like, you know, try your best to stay being able to. [17:10] At least he has one person who's telling him to do this. [17:14] But the thing is that I'm just not capable of doing that, and I'm not close to the administration, [17:17] so I'm just, like, red behind the eyes furious. [17:20] But one of the big things I'm furious about is that they're handing this country right [17:24] back over to the Democrats, who really are every bit the threat that we were making them [17:28] out to be over the last decade. [17:30] And they're race haters, too. [17:31] And they're going to come in more authoritarian and more angry because they are furious that [17:35] we disobeyed them and put Donald Trump back in the White House. [17:40] There's all – and, like, all their – I mean, look, we saw what they did through COVID. [17:43] We saw what they did with tech censorship. [17:45] And I don't want to find out what a central bank digital currency looks like and what carbon, [17:48] you know, social credit scores look like. [17:51] And the thing is that what – look at – you watch the Democrats as they're winning now, [17:55] right? [17:55] Like, you could look at the races when Momdani won in New York, when the new governor won [18:01] in New Jersey, the new governor in Virginia. [18:03] There have been a couple races in Texas where they were, like, outperforming what they should [18:07] be performing in Texas. [18:09] Every last one of them is running on what they now call unaffordability. [18:14] It's like they just made up a new term because they – and literally none of them – I [18:19] don't – I just really don't think if I had one of them sitting where you're sitting [18:22] right here and I was grilling them and I could go, what is unaffordability? [18:27] I don't think one of them has an answer. [18:28] I don't even think they know the term currency debasement. [18:31] I don't even think they know that that's what it is. [18:32] And they have no respect for human rights at all. [18:33] Oh, no. [18:34] None. [18:34] So here in Virginia, which was conservative or normal 20 minutes ago, they bring in some [18:39] guy literally born in India from another country to lead the effort to confiscate [18:44] people's guns and no more self-defense in the state. [18:46] This just happened. [18:48] I mean, it was like not long – I mean, a year ago they had a Republican governor, so [18:53] it's an evenly – not much of one, but it's still – it's an evenly divided state. [18:56] The second they take power, you can't defend yourself. [18:59] Right. [18:59] Well, but look – [19:00] And just to humiliate you, to bring some guy from another country to lecture you about [19:03] your country where your family was born, you don't have the right to have a gun? [19:06] Yep. [19:07] No, it's such an outrage. [19:09] I mean, it's just like unbelievable. [19:11] But look, but the thing is that – [19:13] It's going to happen fast when they take over. [19:13] Running on unaffordability is winning for them, obviously, because that is the issue, right? [19:19] Now, they don't understand that unaffordability means price inflation. [19:23] It means that you've debased your currency, right? [19:26] And so this is – so the thing is now, we're handing them this thing to run away. [19:31] Oh, I know. [19:32] While Donald Trump is talking about, you know, working with the Ayatollah about the Strait [19:36] of Hormuz or whatever, your local Democrat is going, hey, why are your grocery prices [19:41] so high? [19:41] Why is that – by the way, all the price inflation from the Joe – you know the way this stuff [19:45] works. [19:45] It's cumulative. [19:46] So Donald Trump – we live in an inflationary economy because of the central bank. [19:50] It doesn't matter what – [19:51] Because inflation means an inflation or the money supply. [19:53] Right, because they will, no matter what, print enough money so that we don't fall into [19:57] a deflationary, you know, economy. [19:59] They're going to do that. [20:01] And they're just – they're not even printing the money. [20:03] They're just typing into a computer these days. [20:05] So they can get ahead of it. [20:07] And so Donald Trump might brag that the CPI is only at 2% and not at 9% where Joe Biden [20:13] was. [20:13] But for every regular American, we lived through all of those price increases, and now it's [20:18] just 2% more expensive than it was under Joe Biden. [20:21] So you haven't been helped any. [20:22] The prices aren't going down. [20:23] They're just going up at a slower rate. [20:26] It's like – I think it was Michael Malice who had the phrase where he goes – when [20:31] they go, they go, we cut inflation in half. [20:35] And they go, it's literally on the level of if you knew somebody who gained 100 pounds [20:38] in a year, and then the next year they gained 50 pounds, and they go, I'm getting thinner. [20:42] And you're like, no, you are not. [20:45] You are getting fatter, sir. [20:46] The goal is not to slow down how much weight you put on. [20:51] But it really does just come down to this, right, is that we have a government that we [20:56] cannot afford. [20:58] We cannot even come close to affording the size of government we have because it's the [21:01] biggest government in human history. [21:02] It's the biggest organization in human history, as you often point out. [21:05] And that organization is parasitical in nature. [21:09] It gets its money from taking that money – from expropriating that money from the American [21:16] people. [21:16] But you can't tax them enough, and you can't borrow enough. [21:20] And so we have to print the money. [21:21] And so we have to print the money because we can't afford the size of government. [21:25] And so then that makes the price of everything go up and up and up. [21:28] And so essentially the point I'm getting at – and this is why I just point out that [21:33] to say it's Austrian economics gets – because what guys like Memdani can come in and do [21:38] now is say, hey, look, everything's so unaffordable. [21:42] And you know what the answer to that is? [21:43] A government program. [21:44] More control. [21:45] More government. [21:45] More control for me. [21:47] More free buses and government supermarkets. [21:49] And on the surface, that kind of probably sounds reasonable to some people. [21:53] But the thing is that we're here because government is too big. [21:57] That's what's got us to this place. [21:59] And so I think it's important to just point that out to people. [22:04] That it's like, no, this is – the thing is that we cannot afford – here's the real [22:08] hard, honest truth that Americans don't want to hear, or at least maybe the first part they [22:13] want to hear. [22:13] People are okay with me saying this. [22:15] We can't afford the world empire. [22:17] We can't afford it. [22:18] We don't have the money for it. [22:20] We're pretending we have it. [22:22] We're just devaluing our currency and therefore, by the way, destroying young people's lives. [22:27] Now there are days I know a bunch of young people, like in my family and friends who [22:31] are literally like good people, go to work every day, make 70K a year. [22:36] And they're like, how am I going to settle down and start a family, dude? [22:39] I mean, like the average house around me is going for 800 grand. [22:41] You make 70 grand a year. [22:43] That math simply does not work. [22:45] And this is not – I'm not saying the bum on welfare. [22:48] I'm saying like the young man who's getting up and going to work every day. [22:51] And so we cannot afford this empire. [22:55] And the other thing is, which no one, including Republicans, ever wants to say, we also can't [22:59] afford the entitlement programs. [23:01] No way. [23:01] And they're insane. [23:03] They're the most indefensible thing in the world. [23:05] I mean, leaving aside Medicaid for a second, but Social Security and Medicare are from a [23:10] different time, from a different country that are totally indefensible. [23:14] They were indefensible then, but they're really indefensible now. [23:16] You're telling me you have a wealth transfer program from a poorer group to a richer group? [23:27] I'm sorry. [23:27] The seniors aren't the ones who need the help right now. [23:29] That's for sure. [23:30] It's the young people. [23:31] And I think that – I would love if some politician – I think Ron Paul is the only [23:37] one I've ever seen. [23:38] I'm sure Massey would agree with me if I said this to him. [23:41] But I wish somebody would just run on that. [23:44] I'm like, yeah. [23:45] You know, they used to say that's the third rail of politics. [23:48] Like, why? [23:49] Because boomers just need to get everything? [23:52] Everything has to be rigged in favor of them? [23:54] I mean, I'm sorry. [23:55] Like, the thing is, you kind of have these, like, abstract political debates sometimes, [24:00] which I'm a nerd for this stuff. [24:01] I really like them. [24:02] But so you'd have, like, a – you know, you'd have, like, a Keynesian debate a Chicago [24:06] school guy. [24:07] Or you'd have a socialist debate a free market guy. [24:10] And, like, the free market guy would argue that, you know, there's a better allocation [24:14] of resources in a free market. [24:16] And then the socialist would argue that some people fall behind. [24:18] And so you need redistributive policies to take from the wealthy to give to the people [24:22] who have fallen behind. [24:23] But who argues that you should have a redistributive policy from the poor to the rich? [24:28] That's the whole United States of America. [24:30] That's all of central banking. [24:32] That's all of government spending. [24:33] All it is is they take money from the working people, and they give it to millionaires. [24:39] Go look at any of the suburbs of Washington, D.C. [24:42] None of them make anything. [24:43] They're all in $3 million houses because government spending is north of $7 trillion. [24:50] Of course. [24:51] Well, that – unfortunately, it's getting to the point where that kind of is our economy. [24:54] Yeah, yeah. [24:55] So you'd really need to reorder things on the – beginning with the foundations. [25:00] Yeah, well – [25:01] But two good things are happening. [25:02] One, the empire is by necessity shrinking, and so that's a cost savings, [25:08] and that's a reorientation back where the attention belongs, which is here. [25:13] And two, you have the baby boom going away, which is 1946, 1964, [25:18] so people born in the middle in 1956 are now 70. [25:22] Yeah. [25:23] So they'll be 80 in 10 years. [25:24] So you – that generation, clearly, I think everyone agrees, not everyone in it, [25:28] but as a generation, destroyed the country. [25:30] Oh, yeah. [25:31] Just the worst. [25:32] And annoyed the country. [25:33] With some notable exceptions, my mom included. [25:36] She's cool, but the rest of them. [25:38] Oh, many, many notable exceptions. [25:39] I know a million baby boomers that – not a million, but I've met baby boomers I like. [25:43] Well, I just couldn't – I mean, the thing about it – [25:45] Not that many, though. [25:46] There's – Jeff Deist is a really, really brilliant guy. [25:49] He was the – he ran the Mises Institute for years. [25:51] He's over at Monetary Metals now, but he's a really, really brilliant guy. [25:56] He had this speech one time where he was talking about the boomers and, like, the evolution of the generation and what they believed at the time. [26:04] And it's – so it is just the most self-absorbed, selfish generation ever. [26:07] I mean, they literally – their slogan was, don't trust anyone over 30, until they turned 30. [26:12] Exactly. [26:13] And then he does – like, Jeff Deist, like, went through the whole thing. [26:16] I don't remember all of it. [26:17] But then by the end, they were the ones pushing COVID. [26:20] Like, they started out as the don't trust anyone over 30. [26:23] And then they said, shut down the schools so that I don't get sick. [26:27] Like, take from my grandchildren's generation so that I'm protected. [26:31] And, yeah, I mean, these guys – [26:33] But the dumbest, too. [26:34] I mean, the thing about – narcissism is the core sin. [26:37] Like, that's their main problem is they're all about themselves. [26:40] The thing you notice about people who are all about themselves is how unwise and badly informed they are because they don't pay attention to other people. [26:47] Therefore, they never learn. [26:48] Therefore – and I've noticed this since I was a child because these were my teachers, the baby boom – [26:52] they'll fall for anything. [26:54] They're the most easily manipulated people who've ever lived in this country. [26:59] They are the most dominated by their herd instinct. [27:00] Like, all the kids are wearing masks. [27:02] All the kids are taking the shots. [27:03] All the kids are going into finance. [27:04] Whatever all the other people are doing, they will do. [27:06] They're the Mickey Mouse Club generation. [27:08] They are truly without creative impulse. [27:13] They're just not impressive. [27:15] In addition to being super annoying, one of the least attractive generations. [27:19] Like, there's a lot about them that we can – the least attached to their own children. [27:23] You've got two houses, but your kids have no house. [27:25] How does that work? [27:26] Oh, yeah. [27:26] The generation of no-fault divorce, the generation of I've got to be me, I've got to pursue my own happiness when you've got little kids. [27:33] But you is not that interesting. [27:35] Yeah. [27:35] But the more you think about you, the dumber you get. [27:38] That's just what I've – I've just always noticed that. [27:40] That's, like, one of the most profound ironies in life, like this kind of counterintuitive thing where, like, if you're only concerned with yourself, yourself is going to suffer for that. [27:51] Right. [27:52] No, that's – [27:52] It's really true. [27:53] Like, and you watch this all the time with people who really have, like, you know, like really bad depression and are just, like, miserable, and they're constantly talking about their mood today. [28:04] It's like, hey, step number one, stop thinking about your mood. [28:08] Your mood is not that important. [28:10] Here's step number one. [28:11] Start thinking about other people. [28:12] How about this? [28:13] Try doing something productive for someone else other than yourself. [28:16] And don't think about your mood once while you're doing it. [28:19] You know, I'll tell you, I've, you know, I've been on this earth for about 43 years, and I haven't learned that much. [28:25] I've got a few things. [28:27] There's – I've never been anywhere near as happy since I got married and had kids. [28:33] Like, once my life became about a family and not just about me, you know what I mean? [28:39] And I think I was in this generation that was – [28:41] Did you expect that? [28:43] No, man. [28:44] I mean, I don't know. [28:44] I always thought before I met my wife, it was always, to me, like, everything in my mind was, like, professional success. [28:52] Right. [28:52] You know, like, that was – I wanted to be a successful comedian, and I wanted to talk about politics and all of this stuff, and I wanted – I always wanted that. [29:01] And, you know, it's weird now because I've kind of – like, I've kind of gotten everything I really wanted in all those years. [29:06] And it's nice. [29:07] Don't get me wrong. [29:08] I really love my career. [29:08] I love what I do. [29:09] I love this. [29:10] I love doing shows with you. [29:11] Yeah. [29:11] It's great. [29:12] But, like, it's so unimportant compared to family. [29:16] I mean, you know, like, it's just not even – it's not – the older you get, the more you realize it's, like, that's all that really matters. [29:22] All that really matters are your wife, your children, the close friends that you have around you, like, the good people in your life. [29:30] Connection to other people, connection to God. [29:33] That's all that really matters in life. [29:35] All the rest of it is kind of just part of the journey and part of the thing. [29:38] But – [29:39] Yeah, you do your best, knowing you're probably not going to move the ball that far. [29:43] Yeah, well, you know, I read this – there was this really great book by, I believe, the author's name – you know, I don't know if I've ever actually heard it pronounced. [29:53] I've just read it. [29:53] But it's, like, Jean Twenge or Twenge or something. [29:57] Yeah, yeah, yeah. [29:57] Now, I don't know about her. [29:58] I think she was on Bill Maher's show recently, and she said one thing that I thought was really stupid, and I turned it off. [30:03] Because I was like, I really liked her book, I just don't want to – I don't want to know – you know how you feel sometimes – you're like, I don't want to – don't – but she wrote this book called – I think it was called The Me Generation, Generation Me, something like that. [30:16] It was really great. [30:16] I thought it was a really, really good book. [30:18] And it was kind of about my generation who was raised by the boomers. [30:21] And, you know, the way I was raised – and, again, I'm not – I had a really great mother. [30:25] She was really great and instilled a lot of really good things in me. [30:27] This was bigger than her. [30:29] This was just the culture. [30:30] But we were raised – and I didn't think it was so unique at the time, but I was really kind of a child of the – you know, a child of the unipolar moment, I guess you could say. [30:41] And then a teenager, young adult. [30:44] A post-Berlin Wall. [30:45] Yeah, yeah. [30:45] Well, I mean, I was – I remember watching it, watching the Berlin Wall come down. [30:49] And I was at my grandfather's house. [30:51] And my grandfather, as I told you before, was from Germany. [30:54] And I just – my only memory of it was I was a little – I was born in 83, so I guess I would have been six years old when this happened. [30:59] So I'm a little kid. [31:00] And I just remember I was being a little kid and probably being loud in the living room or something or walked in front of the TV. [31:07] And I remember he snapped at me and went, shh. [31:10] And I just remember being like, oh. [31:11] How old was your grandfather when he left Germany? [31:14] He would have been, I want to say, like 15 maybe. [31:18] Oh, wow. [31:19] So old enough to remember. [31:20] Yeah, yeah, yeah. [31:20] Oh, yeah, yeah. [31:21] Old enough to remember some really vicious things. [31:24] He got out in 1938. [31:26] But so anyway, he – so I just remember like, oh, this is really serious to Grandpa what's happening. [31:32] And it was the Berlin Wall being coming down. [31:34] Yeah, it was a big deal to him. [31:35] I'm not sure he liked it that much. [31:37] I think he was a little concerned about German reunification. [31:40] Many were. [31:41] You know, as you could imagine. [31:43] But it turned out to be a good thing. [31:45] But anyway, so, you know, I was – I kind of grew up in that time, in the 80s and the 90s. [31:50] And there was – we didn't have things that I think almost every other generation had. [31:55] Like we weren't raised with like God, chivalry, nation, country. [32:01] You know, there wasn't this – it was like you go to school and, you know, get your homework done so no one's mad at you. [32:07] And then you can go play basketball outside. [32:10] Or there's a new video game out. [32:11] It was let's hang out with our friends and have fun. [32:14] There wasn't like this – there's like purpose, you know, like put into your life, which most people have in most of human history. [32:23] Even if it's just – [32:24] They call it culture. [32:24] Yeah, culture. [32:25] Religious views, you know, like, you know, important things. [32:28] And I think there were a lot of people in my generation were like that, that it was almost like – again, like we said before, you can't take God out of the equation because something else just becomes God. [32:46] And in a way – like I know I've heard you say this before, but it's so true. [32:49] It's like the desire to worship is so hardwired into the DNA of the human soul that you just can't – you can say you're an atheist if you want to. [32:58] But then like I'll find out what your religion is pretty quickly. [33:02] And oftentimes it just becomes yourself. [33:04] You know, when you don't have other things, it becomes like, well, let me have fun. [33:07] Let me go get this. [33:08] But that is – like I said, 43 years, I haven't learned much in life. [33:11] One thing I have learned for certain is that if your highest goal in life is your own pleasure, you will be a miserable, miserable human being. [33:21] Yeah, well, I've learned that. [33:23] I've learned that too. [33:24] So as you look around at 43, among people you know who are your age, grew up in the same world you grew up in, how many are thinking about the existence of God right now? [33:32] I think a lot more than ever were as kids. [33:35] Did you ever know any religious people growing up? [33:37] Yeah, I mean, I knew some, but it was very few and far between. [33:42] Like there were really like religious or talked about it or what – you know, like I knew – you know, even like I went to like Hebrew school, but I went for like a year to – like my mom wanted me to be bar mitzvahed, but it wasn't really like a deep religious conviction. [33:56] It was more like, okay, this is what our people have always done, you know, and like out of respect to your father and your father's father and your father's father's father, you know, like I could kind of understand that. [34:06] And so I went, but it was like a reformed, you know, temple where I went there. [34:11] And I remember even the rabbi, like, you know, like some of the kids would be like, well, do you believe in God? [34:15] And he's like, yeah, you know, everything that's good is God and everything, you know, like it was just total like Jewish, you know, like essentially atheism. [34:24] I grew up around so many people like that. [34:26] Yeah, so it was just, you know, there was just a lot of that. [34:30] And I don't, you know, I certainly think that one of the things I really focus on as a father – and I have little kids, but I will focus on this more over the years – is like instilling the idea of purpose. [34:44] Instilling the idea of like God and not just God, but like what that represents. [34:48] That like, hey, you're, you know, you're here. [34:51] We're all here in this life together. [34:53] This life is a little bit of a mystery. [34:55] We don't know everything about it. [34:57] That's exactly right. [34:57] But we do know that like we – other people exist too as we exist. [35:04] And human beings can be – we have this amazing capacity to be demonic or angelic. [35:11] You know, like you can really – one person – you know, there's little moments in life where, you know, whatever it is, like you're at the post office and it's 5.01. [35:19] And you had to get this letter out today or you're getting fired. [35:23] And you're like, you know, my life is ruined. [35:25] If you're talking to some person on the other end, can you please just take this one package? [35:29] You know, I'm just coming up with a scenario. [35:30] And that person could go, all right, come here, give me the package. [35:33] And you're like, yo, you just saved my life. [35:35] You know what I mean? [35:35] Like you have no idea what you just did for me. [35:37] And like you can do that for other people. [35:39] You can try your best to throughout your day and your career and your life be like, yo, let me help this guy and be that person. [35:46] Or, you know, you can be what Benjamin Netanyahu is to the Palestinians, you know, like just a monster, the guy who just like ruined their family's life. [35:57] And so if we're kind of given this world and we don't have all of the answers to it, but we kind of know that we have like an ability to be either one of those things, hey, really focus on being the angel for people. [36:09] Really focus on trying to help others. [36:11] And I think that makes you a much happier person the more you focus on that. [36:15] I agree with that completely. [36:15] And do you find that people you knew in the secular world growing up are reaching similar conclusions? [36:21] Yeah, I think I know several people like that. [36:24] And I do, I think that, you know, he had an amazing meteoric rise and a really tragic fall. [36:32] But I think this is why Jordan Peterson was such a phenomenon for years that it was like, you know, going around and telling young men that you should search out purpose and search out God in life. [36:42] It's amazing how how like powerful that is. [36:46] I love that. [36:47] Yeah, me too. [36:48] He takes a lot of abuse and, you know, he's against me or whatever. [36:52] I don't even could care less, but I will always appreciate that about Jordan Peterson. [36:56] Yeah, me too. [36:57] That he did that. [36:58] Yeah, you know, I like I in a way he was a guy who I always really wanted to talk to and never did. [37:05] He was, you know, obviously, I mean, him joining the Daily Wire and going on that side was just really, really tragic mistake. [37:13] And I think he threw away all of the credibility that he had with the younger generation when they really could have used his voice. [37:20] I totally agree with that. [37:21] He was never much as a political actor. [37:24] He was always something else. [37:25] No, he's like a Canadian psychologist. [37:26] Yeah, like this wasn't, you know, sit that part out. [37:29] He missed the mark on a lot of his political points. [37:31] But I mean, you know, when you're on record telling Benjamin Netanyahu to give them hell, that's that's really hard to come back from. [37:38] But he came on, you know, he came on Joe Rogan's show the episode after I debated Douglas Murray. [37:46] I believe it was the next one was Jordan Peterson. [37:48] And I remember watching it and I did feel like I was like, oh, man, I think he's going to like say, you know what I mean? [37:55] Like, I think he's going to say something, you know, nasty about me because he's Ben Shapiro and Netanyahu's guy now. [38:01] And they just had this big debate. [38:02] And he didn't. [38:04] He kind of said, oh, I thought he didn't name me. [38:07] He mentioned Douglas and Joe. [38:08] And he said, I thought I thought everyone involved did a good job. [38:11] Good for him. [38:12] So I was like, OK, that kind of that was nice to me in a way that I was like, oh, he had, you know, from someone at the Daily Wire, that's about as good as I can expect. [38:18] He was a pretty charitable guy. [38:19] I mean, you know, I thought he had flaws, but I was never I, you know, I always said charitable and still do have charitable feelings toward him. [38:26] Douglas Murray, however, that's a different. [38:28] What happened to Doug? [38:29] Is he still still living in this country? [38:31] No, he's doing great. [38:32] I think he got a gig writing speeches for the Israeli government. [38:35] Oh, he did. [38:35] From the last I heard. [38:36] Yeah, he did. [38:36] Can I just I don't know if I have I said this on your show before? [38:39] I don't think so, because I think last time we spoke was right after that debate or last time we spoke on the podcast, not spoke in life. [38:46] But last time we were doing the show was right after that debate. [38:50] But before this came out and it was Ryan Grimm and the guys over at DropSite who published this. [38:56] But so if you remember the famous you've never been argument. [39:00] Well, I'm sorry, I should not call that an argument. [39:02] There's it's not an argument. [39:04] Didn't rise to the level. [39:05] But what he said, what he was trying to say, which was really, you know, kind of silly, but he was like, you know, he goes, well, he said, I have the journalistic courtesy of visiting a place before I talk about that place. [39:19] This was he was lecturing me about journalistic ethics. [39:23] Now, I'm not a journalist, Tucker. [39:25] I'm a stand up comedian. [39:26] You've been a journalist for many years. [39:27] So maybe you can fill me in on this. [39:28] I don't I'm not an expert in journalistic ethics. [39:33] What are the ethics of covering a country and not disclosing that you work for the government? [39:39] Is that up there? [39:40] Is that framed upon? [39:41] I would have to consult like a professor of ethics like Sam Bakeman Freed's parents. [39:47] Yes. [39:47] I think his mother does that for a living. [39:49] So we have a whole infrastructure designed to answer complex questions like that, Dave. [39:53] But I. [39:54] By the way, how about I have the courtesy of of not advocating for wars that I'm not willing to fight in myself. [40:02] That's my professional courtesy. [40:05] But I think. [40:06] That is a much better standard. [40:07] Well, who spends? [40:08] I mean, what type of person? [40:09] And look, I. [40:10] But he kind of went away. [40:11] Didn't he? [40:12] I mean, Douglas Murray was like I took him seriously. [40:13] By the way, I knew him well. [40:15] And I thought he had, you know, there were things about him that I felt sorry for him because [40:19] of them. [40:20] But in general, I'm smart and I never had a problem with him at all. [40:23] Had a couple of fun dinners with him. [40:26] That debate, which you were proclaimed the loser of by a lot of people, I think that just destroyed [40:32] his life. [40:33] Yeah, well, again, it was like no one except the people who already had made up their mind [40:40] that Israel is the greatest country ever. [40:42] No one except them thought that he won the debate. [40:45] A few of them seem to celebrate that the comment section under the video was just torching him [40:51] like every regular person went, oh, he just destroyed himself. [40:54] And then I will say a lot of people, including some prominent people who you listener know, [41:03] I think Charlie Kirk, by the way, texted me after that debate and were like, yo, dude, [41:10] he just destroyed his credibility or like you're you like that was crazy that he came [41:14] at you like that. [41:15] I had people, you know, whatever. [41:18] I won't name all of them because I don't want to give out private information. [41:21] Maybe I shouldn't have. [41:22] I mentioned that about Charlie Kirk because Candace months back had had called on me to [41:27] like to release whatever private communications I have that might be relevant. [41:31] And I thought one of the things was relevant was that he said after the debate that he largely [41:34] agreed with me after the Douglas Murray debate. [41:36] Well, he certainly did. [41:37] I talked to him on this topic. [41:38] Yeah. [41:39] Yeah. [41:40] That was relevant and to like where his mind state was. [41:42] But other people like I think a lot of people kind of expected him to be like, they were [41:46] like, okay, Dave, you've been blowing through these debates, but this is the best guy on [41:49] the other side. [41:50] So he's going to come really give you a challenge. [41:52] He had a British accent. [41:53] So there was no chance that he was someone from Brooklyn was going to beat him. [41:56] Well, yeah, I guess that's the first advantage that he had. [42:01] But you know, there's a weird thing where again, kind of back to what I was saying before, [42:05] you see this thing where, so after that debate happens, I have this huge like groundswell of [42:12] support from people. [42:14] Then Donald Trump tweets out, you got to go get Douglas Murray's new book like two days [42:18] after the debate or something like that. [42:20] And it just, I thought there was an interesting parallel between that and when Donald Trump [42:26] just tweeted the other day about how great, not the one to watch the show, but he treated [42:30] last week about how wonderful Mark Levin is and how everyone arguing with him is awful [42:35] or something like that. [42:36] And if you look on Twitter, not saying Twitter is everything, but it's one little glimpse [42:40] into things. [42:41] I mean, Mark Levin gets ratioed by random people, like not even like you or Megyn Kelly or someone [42:48] like that. [42:49] I'm saying like some random guy will just call Mark Levin an idiot and way more people [42:54] like his tweet than like Mark Levin's tweet. [42:56] He's out there. [42:57] He's feuding it with Megyn Kelly and he's calling you and me every name in the book. [43:04] And then the entire audience is just going with us. [43:08] And then Trump comes out and says, we're all in with him. [43:10] So I saw that when, when Trump tweeted that about you read, you know, Douglas Murray's dumb [43:17] books. [43:19] And I kind of willfully ignored it because I was so focused. [43:23] Well, cause I liked Trump, but also because I was so focused on the Iran thing and just [43:26] have to prevent a war with Iran. [43:28] Yeah. [43:29] That's more important. [43:30] I don't know though. [43:31] I mean, that, that was foreshadowing that actually there was a lot of control. [43:35] Why would the president United States be promoting Douglas Murray, who, you know, he's not even [43:39] American and he's like totally discredited. [43:42] Why would the president be promoting him? [43:44] Well, I mean, doing Mark Levin is much worse. [43:47] I mean, look, Douglas Murray. [43:49] I do think he, he was ridiculous and he kind of made an ass out of himself in that debate. [43:53] Um, but Mark Levin has gone to a level of retardation that I've never seen out of, you know, I have [44:01] a, I, listen, I was never to, I was somewhat impressed by the first generation of neocons. [44:06] You know, I think I worked for them. [44:07] Yeah. [44:08] Well, I, I know I was one, but I think, well, sorry, no, but I mean like, I mean like Leo [44:13] Strauss and Irving Kristol and those guys. [44:15] Right. [44:16] And, and, but then I always thought like, I always kind of went, you know, if you remember [44:20] the, um, Fox news, he wasn't really on your show a lot, but if you remember the reverence [44:26] people used to have for Charles Krauthammer, like they would all talk about him, like to [44:30] his face, they'd be like, the genius is here. [44:33] And then I'd be like, I've never heard him say anything interesting ever. [44:36] I just don't agree. [44:37] I don't know what the, but all of those guys. [44:39] So I was always like, one thing I'll say about Charles, who I knew really well, he was a very [44:42] nice man and he was a nice man because he had had to reckon with, you know, being paralyzed [44:48] from the chest down from medical school. [44:51] And, um, and so he just had a perspective on life. [44:54] I spent hours, hours talking to him and I knew his wife and I really liked him as a man, [45:00] but his views were impossible to defend if you cared about the United States. [45:04] Yeah, that right. [45:05] But anyway, I guess with all of them, I was never particularly intellectually impressed with [45:10] any of them. [45:11] If you want to see, by the way, if you want to see, if you've never watched, man, Scott [45:15] Horton debating Bill Kristol at the Soho Forum, it was, you really exposed just how much Bill [45:21] Kristol has nothing. [45:22] No knowledge, no argument, nothing. [45:25] He literally, I've never seen it happen before. [45:26] He threw in the towel in the debate, essentially. [45:29] He literally, at one point, Scott makes some argument, there was like a back and forth section, [45:34] and Scott makes some argument and he goes, well, we just have fundamentally different worldviews. [45:39] And you're like, yeah, that's why you're debating. [45:42] You have to make an argument. [45:43] And then- [45:44] Bill will never explain what his worldview is. [45:45] Well, right. [45:46] And then in his closing, there were still like three minutes on the clock and he just stopped. [45:50] Anyway, I say all of this to say- [45:51] He doesn't care though. [45:52] Because it doesn't matter. [45:53] I've seen some dumb arguments from neocons over the years. [45:57] I have never seen anyone go full-blown Mark Levin the way he goes. [46:01] Like, it is, he's literally just a ranting old man, yelling insults unattached to any [46:10] argument at all. [46:11] Like, his whole show is just like, yeah, this little punk wants to come and talk to me, [46:15] you little fascist. [46:16] Like, it's like, what is this, dude? [46:19] Like, and so there is something about Donald Trump promoting that that is, that's like [46:25] several levels worse than promoting Douglas Murray. [46:27] No, but it's, so then you have to ask like, well, what actually is it? [46:30] It's not designed to win people over. [46:32] It's designed to increase hatred, anti-Semitism, by the way. [46:36] Absolutely. [46:37] I mean, if you were, if you were, you know, whoever Mark thinks he's working for, the Israelis, [46:42] I guess, you would look at this and say, this is not helping us. [46:45] Don't do this. [46:46] You know, get some articulate, decent, hot woman on there to make the case or whatever. [46:50] You do a marketing thing. [46:52] This is anti-marketing. [46:54] This is designed to repel people. [46:56] So why would you want that? [46:57] I don't know the answer, but it's clearly true. [46:59] Second, his relationship with the president is bizarre. [47:03] You think Trump likes that? [47:05] There was a, there was a moment at some anti-stop anti-Semitism event of some kind or Hanukkah [47:11] celebration or some Jewish themed White House event where Trump was there with [47:17] Mark Levin and Levin comes over and puts his arm around the president's neck and pulls [47:22] him in. [47:23] Now, I know Trump well. [47:24] I mean, I wouldn't like that and I'm not even the president or a germaphobe. [47:29] Yeah. [47:30] What is that? [47:31] And under normal circumstances, Trump would never put up with that. [47:34] You just, what you're, you're doing the dominance move over the president of the United States? [47:39] And over Donald Trump. [47:40] Are you joking? [47:41] Not the president, but Donald Trump, the most dominant alpha male guy. [47:45] That's a dominance move. [47:46] Who does that to other people. [47:47] Exactly. [47:48] Yeah. [47:49] But even Trump, who is very much about dominance, obviously, most powerful men are, he would, [47:54] Trump would never throw his arm around someone and give him a headlock like that. [47:57] He wouldn't do that. [47:58] No, no, no. [47:59] He'll pull you in while he shakes your hand. [48:00] 100%. [48:01] Or he'll do the thing, what did he do at one of the G7 meetings or whatever where he [48:04] cuts in front of some other world leader. [48:06] Totally. [48:07] By the way, this is another thing that I am totally- [48:08] That's breaking the rules, dude. [48:10] Yes. [48:11] But I'm oblivious to this thing, but this is, as you said, powerful men are like this. [48:14] Yes, they are. [48:15] Where there's like alpha moves. [48:16] Yes. [48:17] Like taking your thing and just make it, you know, like whatever, like if you have a little [48:20] thing of peanuts here that you're eating and I just reach in and tail, you know what [48:23] I mean? [48:24] Like, but to do that to Donald Trump, I understand, I'm not trying to make too much of a little [48:27] thing. [48:28] No, it's not a little thing. [48:29] But that was, there was something symbolic, and then proclaims him the first Jewish president. [48:33] Very strange. [48:34] Very strange. [48:35] You've got to think that Trump, he never said this to me, but just knowing him, you've [48:39] got to think he's filled with rage and someone doing that to him. [48:43] Well, look- [48:44] But he puts up with it anyway, so, and but why would you do that to him? [48:47] So if you want to exert influence over someone who's powerful, like there's a way to do it. [48:51] But the last way to do it is to be like, I'm in charge here, just so you know, I'm more [48:56] powerful than the president of the United States. [48:57] Yes. [48:58] But the president is saying, and Trump is putting up with it, this is either, it's a [49:02] form of sadomasochism, but it also reveals like the true architecture of power in a way [49:07] that's like, what? [49:08] Yeah. [49:09] Well, I think- [49:10] What is that? [49:11] Well, here, I'll say this, and just to preface this, I'm not saying anything other than what [49:16] I'm saying. [49:17] I'm not implying something that I don't know any more than this, and maybe you know more [49:21] than I do, but I will say, you know, people used to say, when Donald Trump was first rising [49:27] to political, his political career in 2016, when he was running, when he was first president, [49:32] I remember liberals used to always say that he's dog whistling bigotry. [49:38] Yeah. [49:39] And you know, we always thought this was so always like a dog whistle, but it's like a [49:42] thing where you kind of, first of all, it's kind of weird because you're like, well, then [49:47] wouldn't you not hear it if it's a dog whistle? [49:49] Because wouldn't only the bigots hear it, isn't that the idea? [49:52] Right. [49:53] Also, that seems like a very convenient way of saying, even though there's nothing I can [49:57] actually point to that you said- [49:59] Of course. [50:00] But what I always thought was that what Donald Trump did was he would very often stoke or [50:07] give a wink and a nod to conspiracies. [50:10] Oh, big thing. [50:11] That he was, look, he went out there about Obama's birth certificate. [50:14] He obviously called out the whole Russiagate thing, which was a legit conspiracy to unseat [50:20] the sitting president. [50:21] No, but the Q thing. [50:22] He was into that. [50:23] The Q thing. [50:24] He'd float out the, obviously the election being stolen, but all the witch on, and of course [50:29] now with Epstein, when it's not really, well, it is a conspiracy, but it's a legitimate one. [50:33] But he's saying, oh, it's, you know, there's a democratic hoax. [50:37] He is very quick to any time it will help him look good to be like, it's a conspiracy [50:42] against me. [50:44] Never once with Butler, never once. [50:48] And it's kind of crazy, man. [50:50] Like we don't, we have like no information. [50:53] They haven't even like attempted to give us a national story that puts a little bow on [50:59] top of like who this guy was or what happened, how there was such a security failure that [51:05] could allow a sniper, 130 yards away to get a clean shot at the president, a former president [51:11] and current candidates head. [51:12] Um, what the, just kind of no internet history can't get into his phones. [51:17] Oh, he wanted to kill anyone he could. [51:18] That's all nothing to see here. [51:20] And it's just a little bizarre to me that you would think like all other things making [51:26] sense. [51:27] You would just think you would hear Donald Trump going, they tried to kill me. [51:30] They tried to do this. [51:31] They tried to, but I mean, days afterward, he just thanked the secret service for what [51:36] a great job they did. [51:37] And I don't know what any of that means. [51:40] I know a lot about it. [51:41] And I'll just say this, which we said publicly is I, you know, I got a call from somebody who [51:46] said, I've got a lot of material from the gunman. [51:51] I'm not disputing. [51:52] He was the gunman, by the way, seems like the gunman. [51:54] Question is like, was he working in concert with anyone else? [51:57] Were there other people involved? [51:58] Right. [51:59] It's the same with Charlie Kirk. [52:00] It's not a question of, you know, I don't know anything, but the question is never just [52:04] did the guy pull the trigger? [52:06] Of course. [52:07] Yeah. [52:08] With the videotape that we don't have from the Charlie Kirk assassination for some reason, [52:14] but whatever. [52:15] The point is that's only one part of the story. [52:17] The question was, were there other people involved? [52:19] And in the case of Butler, I got this corpus of information from a guy almost off the street. [52:25] We showed that it was real and always skeptical of this stuff, very skeptical. [52:29] But it turns out this was actually from Thomas Crookes' YouTube account. [52:34] And the FBI claimed that this didn't exist. [52:37] Well, of course, they knew it existed. [52:39] So then the question becomes, well, why are they, since the man is dead in this sole shooter [52:46] crime, there's a lone gunman and the lone gunman's gone. [52:49] Why would we hold back anything, any evidence we have? [52:52] But they did. [52:53] And that would include video surveillance of the shooting range where he trained to shoot. [52:59] It's a pretty good shot over 100 yards with a .223. [53:01] I shoot a .223. [53:02] It's like all these SEALs are like, oh, that's nothing. [53:04] But like for a non-SEAL, it's a decent shot. [53:08] So there's videotape from the shooting range. [53:11] Did he train alone? [53:12] Who was with him? [53:13] Never been released. [53:14] And the investigation was shut down. [53:16] Shut down. [53:18] So what does that mean? [53:19] I don't know. [53:20] But I mean, like what is going on? [53:23] Yeah. [53:24] And I got to say. [53:25] Why can't we know? [53:26] Well, hearing the heroic former director of counterterrorism come on your show and kind [53:33] of say the same thing does just have a lot more weight to it when the guy was literally [53:38] the director of counterterrorism and going like, hey, what's going on here? [53:42] We have not gotten answers. [53:43] And he tied those facts. [53:45] Those are facts. [53:46] He stated facts. [53:47] By the way, when he, now we've just heard the FBI is not actually investigating him. [53:51] That was all fake. [53:52] He retained his security clearance until the morning he left. [53:55] So if he was under investigation for treason or something, he wouldn't have held his clearance [53:59] and had access to highest level intelligence, which he retained until the moment he resigned. [54:04] So, okay, that was all a lie. [54:06] But he said point blank, one of the most informed people in the United States with clearances higher, [54:12] I think, even than Mark Levin's, there's a connection between Trump's decision to go to war in Iran [54:20] and these not fully explained acts of violence. [54:24] He said that. [54:25] So, okay, before we denounce him as crazy, which maybe he is. [54:29] I don't know. [54:30] It doesn't seem to be, but I hold up at any possibility. [54:33] What is he talking about? [54:36] And there has not only been zero interest from, like, the people in charge of ginning up interest, [54:40] like the internet, the influencers. [54:43] Right. [54:44] There's been calculated discouragement and attacks on anyone who persists in asking the question. [54:50] Yeah, well, like... [54:52] And I haven't gotten involved because I know everybody and it's so emotional to me. [54:56] But at a certain point, I'm gonna, you know, whatever. [54:59] I feel like I've got a pretty close vantage on all this stuff and I'm getting a little sick of it [55:03] because every American has a right to justice, not just for himself, but for any other American citizen. [55:09] Our whole system rests on the idea that there will be justice affected by the U.S. government. [55:13] And we have a right to know. [55:16] You have no right to keep that from me. [55:17] On what grounds are you keeping that from me? [55:18] You can't browbeat me into it by screaming Candace Owens again and again and again or whatever. [55:22] Yeah, that's right. [55:23] And look, like, to me, I've tried to... [55:25] It's outrageous, actually. [55:26] No, absolutely. [55:27] And listen, I'll say just personally, like, I, you know, and I knew Charlie and not super well. [55:35] We weren't, like, close friends, but, like, I'd done a show a few times and we texted a few times. [55:39] He had me at that last, had me do the debate there and we hung out for a little bit while we were there. [55:44] And, you know, it's, I wasn't as close with him as you were, but it's even just, like, being friends with someone like that, it's, it's, first off, it's, like, it's very jarring to see that happen. [55:56] And then he's got a wife and little kids, really tragic, horrible situation. [56:00] And, like, my incentives on all of this is, like, I just don't want to believe that this was anything more than, like, one crazy guy with a trans furry boyfriend or whatever. [56:11] Like, that, that actually is much more comforting to me than it's some conspiracy. [56:15] Half of Twitter seemed to think I was the one who got him killed or something like that, or me and you and Megan or something. [56:22] I very much vehemently want to believe that. [56:24] Yes, right, so, like, we don't want that. [56:26] I will say, so, and I have not done, like, deep dives and watched all of Candace's shows on this or something. [56:32] But, like, there's little pieces of information just, like, it's been confirmed by a few different people that he was texting them, they're gonna kill me. [56:38] Like, hey, man, that's got to be, like, totally exhausted, didn't investigate it. [56:44] I mean, what is this here? [56:45] This is a pretty big deal. [56:47] You've really got to get to the bottom of stuff like that. [56:49] And, look, as you're sitting here and, you know, it's almost like sometimes people will, will call, you know, they'll call you out for being a conspiracy theorist or something. [56:58] Or, you know, you, they say the just asking questions. [57:01] You know what's worse than being a conspiracy theorist is having no curiosity about questions that have not been answered. [57:06] Well, also, there's just something... [57:07] And I'm not a conspiracy theorist, and I believe in curiosity and skepticism. [57:11] And I've encouraged that in a lot of people, and some have been very resistant to be curious or skeptical. [57:16] And there are two sides to this. [57:17] There's not simply the people who are coming up with conspiracy theories, some of them obviously fantastical and wrong, I would think. [57:23] But there's also the government side, which is telling you, shut up, we have this solved. [57:27] And I think we should apply the same skepticism to their claims as well. [57:31] There's no reason the FBI should get an automatic... [57:33] On the basis of what? [57:34] Well, also... [57:35] On their track record of always telling the truth to people? [57:37] Yes, that's right. [57:38] Like, what are you even talking about? [57:39] Well, that's... [57:40] And how dare you threaten me and call me names? [57:44] I mean, I'm not getting paid for this. [57:46] I, you know, I've stayed out of it. [57:47] I'm just getting too mad watching this. [57:49] Well, even before the Epstein files got released, back when Podesta emails were released in the original Pizzagate theory was born. [58:00] And, you know, if you look through some of those Podesta emails, look, they're clearly talking in code. [58:07] Now, what is the code? [58:09] I mean, people are speculating that it was about children. [58:13] Now, I have absolutely no reason to believe that. [58:18] But they're not planning pizza parties. [58:21] You know what I mean? [58:22] Like, they're speaking in code... [58:23] When Epstein's urologist, who's just prescribed him erectile dysfunction drugs, says, [58:30] take the pills and then meet me for pizza and grape soda, that's in the Epstein files. [58:36] Maybe there... [58:38] Maybe there's nothing to do with sex. [58:39] Maybe they're actually... [58:40] You get wicked hungry after you take a boner pill. [58:43] I don't know. [58:44] But the fact that nobody cares to find out... [58:46] That's right. [58:47] Did I even interview the urologist? [58:48] Just bring him up and say, hey, what is this? [58:50] That's right. [58:51] And I felt the same way back then. [58:52] Who drinks grape soda? [58:53] What are you even talking... [58:54] There's no white person in America who drinks grape soda. [58:56] Stop. [58:57] I've maybe had grape soda when I was a child once. [58:59] I'm not against it. [59:00] I'm just saying, like, talk to the urologist. [59:02] Well, right. [59:03] Exactly. [59:04] So, the thing about it is, right, like, even with the original Pizzagate thing, the position [59:07] of, like, the corporate media was to sit there and go, you're an idiot if you think this [59:13] code is about... [59:14] Oh, you're a conspiracy theorist if you think... [59:16] Instead of putting a microphone in front of John Podesta and going, hey, you're clearly [59:21] speaking in code here. [59:22] People are assuming that that code is for raping children. [59:26] So, clear this up. [59:27] Because it can't be any worse than what people are speculating. [59:30] What is it, sir? [59:31] And no one ever even thinks to do that in this phony media. [59:34] And all the hostility is aimed at people who are asking the questions. [59:39] And that's a tell right there. [59:41] Yes. [59:42] There's people... [59:43] Here you have gunshots ringing out in my country. [59:45] People getting killed or an attempted murder. [59:47] Couple of attempted murders. [59:48] There will be more, unfortunately. [59:50] And anyone who's interested in, like, finding out or doesn't automatically trust the government, [59:57] which we're supposed to be skeptical of, that person is the villain? [1:00:00] Yeah, that's right. [1:00:01] And, you know, in a similar thing... [1:00:04] I don't know. [1:00:05] Maybe I'm going to struggle to, like, word this the right way. [1:00:08] But there's certain things that in a vacuum might be true, but aren't true in all circumstances. [1:00:14] So, in other words, like, if you... [1:00:17] Typically speaking, you'd go, hey, before you want to start, you know, believing something, [1:00:23] you got to see strong evidence for it or something like that. [1:00:26] Or you can't just start theorizing and speculating about things without, like, some indication [1:00:30] or something pointing you in that direction. [1:00:32] But then, like, if me and you both just wake up together and we're blacked out for the last 10 hours [1:00:40] and we're chained up in a prison somewhere or something like that, and you start going like, [1:00:45] we got to start speculating about how the hell we got here because this is so crazy. [1:00:48] You know what I mean? [1:00:49] And then I'd be like, hey, my neighbor said something this morning to me about how, like, I bet it's going to be a rough day. [1:00:54] You know, and I'm like, we got to think maybe my neighbor had something to do with this. [1:00:57] Now, then some skeptic could come along and go, your neighbor saying it's going to be a bad day [1:01:03] isn't actually evidence. [1:01:05] And you're like, okay, but we're here. [1:01:06] Like, we got to... [1:01:07] And so, in a sense, there's like, okay, yes, you can be skeptical and it's good to be skeptical of some of these claims. [1:01:15] But at the same time, we're sitting here watching. [1:01:21] It's so crazy to watch, right? [1:01:23] But the never-Trumpers are now the biggest hardcore Trump supporters as they're destroying the coalition that they were afraid of, right? [1:01:33] And they're destroying Trump himself. [1:01:34] Right. [1:01:35] And so you've watched this happen. [1:01:37] And that does lead you to go, how exactly did they pull this off? [1:01:42] How is it that people like, you know, so I, you know, look, I'm a little bit more hotheaded than you at times. [1:01:49] And maybe this is because, you know, I'm a little, I'm a decade younger than you and I still drink big glasses of whiskey at night. [1:01:55] And I still, and I'm just furious about a lot of things. [1:01:58] And I'm, maybe I should, you know, let some of that go. [1:02:01] But, you know, like, I'm still furious at Ben Shapiro. [1:02:04] And the only reason I hate Ben Shapiro's guts is because he called Ron Paul a Jew hater back in the day when it was totally just ridiculous. [1:02:11] You read some of these tweets recently, I think. [1:02:13] Ron Paul is up there talking about how it's not wise to fight multiple wars. [1:02:18] This is what brings down nation. [1:02:19] And Ben Shapiro goes, I bet you just want to strangle a Jew. [1:02:22] You know, he's like, fuck you, dude. [1:02:24] How dare you speak to a man so much better than you that way? [1:02:27] Anyway, but so I was furious over the 12 day war last summer. [1:02:33] I was too. [1:02:34] And I went on Breaking Points. [1:02:37] Great show with Crystal and Sager, who I love very much. [1:02:41] He's so smart, man. [1:02:42] Great. [1:02:43] I literally love Sager to death. [1:02:44] He's just great. [1:02:45] So I'm really happy to call a friend. [1:02:47] And he, so I went on their show right after it and I called for Trump's impeachment. [1:02:52] I said he should be impeached and removed for this. [1:02:54] He's launched a war of aggression. [1:02:56] It's illegal. [1:02:57] It's for a foreign country. [1:02:58] It's what he promised not to do. [1:02:59] You know, I was very angry. [1:03:00] I still stand by that, but I was angry. [1:03:03] And then of course, all of them, all the guys, you know, Josh Hammer and Ben Shapiro and Mark Levin, [1:03:09] they all just start talking shit about me. [1:03:11] Look, this guy doesn't support Trump. [1:03:13] Oh, he voted for Trump last time, but he's calling for his impeachment now. [1:03:17] As if I don't remember where all you guys were in 2016, when National Review was running their never Trump edition. [1:03:26] And Ben Shapiro promised for, for deeply held principled reasons, he could never support Donald Trump. [1:03:32] And Mark Levin was never Trump. [1:03:34] All these guys were never Trump. [1:03:35] Now that he's become a warhawk, what he explicitly ran against being in every election. [1:03:42] Now that he's become that they all love him to death and they're destroyed. [1:03:45] Like, so anyway, my point is, sorry. [1:03:47] Sometimes you see facts like that and you go, that's worth speculating about. [1:03:51] I do have some questions I'd like to ask on how exactly these guys were able to infiltrate this movement, destroy it from within and, you know, set our country on this trajectory toward another catastrophic war. [1:04:05] There's, there's, there's a lot that went into that happening. [1:04:07] I couldn't agree more. [1:04:08] I guess the, the only last thing I would say about it is you started by saying the legacy media covered for the crimes of their masters, the ruling class. [1:04:18] Okay. [1:04:19] Got it. [1:04:20] I mean, that's what they exist to do. [1:04:21] That's why we have NBC news. [1:04:22] That's why. [1:04:23] Yes. [1:04:24] That's right. [1:04:25] No, I totally. [1:04:26] That's why Fox is here. [1:04:28] But to see people in independent media doing that. [1:04:30] And I understand it's very easy to get sidetracked. [1:04:32] Like you're mad at one person. [1:04:34] And so anyone who is asking similar questions to that person, like must be on that side or something, but like try to retain independence in your head. [1:04:45] Like don't get sidetracked. [1:04:47] Certain questions have to be answered no matter who's asking them. [1:04:50] Right. [1:04:51] Yeah. [1:04:52] One of the questions I still can't answer is why is it that all the neocons are the ones leading the screaming and anyone who asked questions about Charlie Kirk's death. [1:05:02] When Charlie Kirk was an enemy of the neocons, like open enemy of the neocons, invited you to TPUSA. [1:05:10] Like you don't invite. [1:05:11] And he didn't. [1:05:12] It's not because the kids at TPUSA are like, oh, I grew up loving Dave Smith. [1:05:15] Yeah. [1:05:16] Yeah. [1:05:17] Well, that's I said that I've said this on other shows, too, but I said this to you that it's like there was something about inviting, you know, inviting you or Megan Kelly. [1:05:23] Yeah. [1:05:24] We're on Fox News. [1:05:25] It's fine. [1:05:26] Yeah. [1:05:27] It's not just like someone on Fox News, like two of the biggest shows. [1:05:31] There is no reason to invite you to a turning point event unless he wants the kids in the audience to hear your views. [1:05:37] Yeah. [1:05:38] Which he did because he substantively agreed with them. [1:05:40] And I would know because I talked about this a lot, like a lot, a lot over years. [1:05:43] So for the neocons whom he at best didn't trust and mostly really didn't like, I never talk about what I think Charlie thought because it feels so weird because he's gone. [1:05:53] Yeah. [1:05:54] Yeah. [1:05:55] But I just have to say this. [1:05:56] They're the ones leading the charge and shut up. [1:05:59] Don't ask any questions. [1:06:00] Like you tell me what this is. [1:06:01] Well, that's. [1:06:02] And I'm not going to take orders from them. [1:06:04] Who are these people anyway? [1:06:05] This is the same reason why this is the reason why I read that text message that he he sent me. [1:06:11] And it was because well, part of it was because Candace asked and I'm friends with Candace and she was very she lost someone she was very close to. [1:06:18] But part of it was that, you know, because it's a weird thing to do. [1:06:21] It's a weird thing to do. [1:06:22] It's a weird thing to share private text message. [1:06:23] Oh, I agree. [1:06:24] I agree. [1:06:25] Especially someone who just died. [1:06:26] And I got some pushback for that. [1:06:27] And I understand why people like I get their point. [1:06:29] Yeah. [1:06:30] Maybe I shouldn't have done that. [1:06:31] I'm not sure. [1:06:32] But you know, it was the thing where like Netanyahu immediately is trying to hijack his legacy. [1:06:35] Josh Hammer and all these guys are immediately trying to hijack his life. [1:06:38] And so it's kind of like selling their books. [1:06:40] Right. [1:06:41] Right. [1:06:42] Literally, dude, it's the most disgusting thing I've ever seen in my life. [1:06:44] Josh Hammer did three interviews immediately after the only reason anyone's interviewing him is because he was friends with Charlie [1:06:48] Kirk or he was close around his circle or whatever. [1:06:51] And every single time he mentioned how much Charlie loved his book. [1:06:55] It's like, Jesus, dude. [1:06:56] I mean, I just could never imagine getting here. [1:06:58] Yeah, I think it's a little strong to say Charlie was friends with Josh Hammer. [1:07:01] Well, okay. [1:07:02] Well, he had him in his circles or whatever, his handler or whatever it was. [1:07:05] But, you know, I remember, you know, right before Charlie died, he called me and he said, man, I just wish everyone would listen to your podcast. [1:07:12] It's like, this is so crazy of a thing to say. [1:07:15] Unbelievable. [1:07:16] But the reason I released that is because I'm like, look, I don't know exactly where Charlie was on his evolution on this topic. [1:07:21] Obviously, he had at one point been a diehard pro-Israel guy, but a lot of people were that and then kind of woke up over the last couple of years. [1:07:29] But I know that he texted me after my debate with Douglas Murray that he said he thought I did a great job and he really did. [1:07:35] He said something like, I read it verbatim on my show, but he said something like, believe it or not, I really didn't disagree with almost anything you said. [1:07:42] And I'm just saying Ben Shapiro wasn't sending me that text. [1:07:45] So for people to try to pretend there was no daylight between the two of them is just not true. [1:07:50] No. [1:07:52] There was hostility. [1:07:53] Right. [1:07:54] Big time. [1:07:55] And not just with, you know, those guys. [1:07:58] Hostility. [1:07:59] I mean, I don't want to overstate it. [1:08:00] I'm not saying he hated them as people, but I mean, he did not agree at all. [1:08:04] And certainly didn't agree with war with Iran. [1:08:06] At all. [1:08:07] For sure. [1:08:08] And with also, honestly, some of the Christian Zionist leaders. [1:08:12] I mean, Charles was very, he loved Israel as a country for sure. [1:08:15] And I think he had a complicated theology, which I did not fully understand and still don't fully understand. [1:08:20] But the idea that you would put another country before your own, like he just rejected that flat out. [1:08:25] And some of those, some of the Christian Zionist leaders men are very aggressive and shark-like and very money oriented and pushy. [1:08:35] And he started talking about that openly. [1:08:37] Well, he talked about it with me a lot. [1:08:38] Yeah. [1:08:39] Well, he talked about it on Megyn Kelly's show. [1:08:40] I mean, talked about the reaction he got from the evangelical leaders. [1:08:43] From, well, maybe not from the evangelical leaders. [1:08:45] It wasn't, it was a mix. [1:08:46] It was a mixture. [1:08:47] Yeah. [1:08:48] Probably a mix of, you know, Jewish Zionists, like, like the guys you mentioned, but also the people he grew up with. [1:08:53] Right. [1:08:54] Who are evangelical leaders. [1:08:56] And he was upset with them. [1:08:59] I mean, I talked to him about it at length. [1:09:00] It's, I could name names with who he was upset. [1:09:02] I'm not going to, but because he's gone, but yeah, that's just real. [1:09:06] And I don't know. [1:09:07] I, I don't even like talking about this, but I'm just offended by where this is going. [1:09:11] And the bottom line is every American has an interest in every murder getting solved and not just in getting solved, but fully solved. [1:09:20] Yeah. [1:09:21] And if you have a government agency that's shutting down a legitimate line of inquiry, at very least you have to answer the question, why are you doing that? [1:09:28] And they, and Joe Kent has said in public multiple times, including to me, the FBI shut down any effort to look into international connections here within days of the killing. [1:09:39] So someone should ask the FBI, like, why'd you do that? [1:09:43] And no one seems willing to ask. [1:09:46] And look, we also know what we know about this FBI, who I just could not be more disgusted with. [1:09:53] And you know, I know you saw when everyone's afraid of them. [1:09:57] Well, what Dan Bongino was talking all types of shit to me on Twitter or whatever, but it's, it's like, look, man, you just, you, you know, there was a thing where people were saying, uh, they were trying to go Dan Bongino into debating me. [1:10:11] Cause he was talking shit about me and you know, as I was, I think I responded in kind. [1:10:15] Um, but the thing is like, he can't Dan Bongino, not only can he not come debate me, Dan Bongino can't ever do a difficult interview ever again for the rest of his life because he's ended in one question. [1:10:28] I literally one question ends it. [1:10:31] I just go, Hey, okay. [1:10:33] So you looked the American people in the eyes and you swore that you had seen the proof that Jeffrey Epstein killed himself. [1:10:40] Well, it's been declassified by an act of Congress now. [1:10:42] So go ahead and tell us, what'd you say? [1:10:44] What's the proof? [1:10:46] It's all declassified now. [1:10:48] They're what it doesn't, it doesn't. [1:10:51] What are the, the few exceptions in the rule? [1:10:53] If it's national security or if it harms the victims or something like that, how would it possibly be any of those for you to just tell me what you saw that made you comfortable enough to go out there and swear. [1:11:03] That you had seen proof that he killed himself. [1:11:06] Cash Patel, Dan Bongino, any, but these guys specifically, and this is one of the big things I think that really. [1:11:11] I just want to interject. [1:11:12] No, no, no. [1:11:13] This is not even anyone in particular, but, um, you know, we say we know things, but I would always add the caveat to the extent you can know things. [1:11:20] Of course. [1:11:21] I've known many things. [1:11:22] I've turned out to be wrong, you know, so I could be wrong, but this is sincere. [1:11:26] I believe I can say with certainty that Jeffrey Epstein was murdered. [1:11:30] So I, so I mean, but of course I'm always open to countervailing evidence, always, because I'm so mindful of my capacity for being wrong. [1:11:38] But I can say if you could x-ray my heart, you would find that I believe with total certainty he was murdered and the people in the US government knew that he was murdered. [1:11:47] I don't want that to be true, but I believe it is true. [1:11:50] So like, it's going to take a lot. [1:11:52] You're gonna have to show me that that's false. [1:11:54] Well, the, the reason why I have so much contempt for, uh, Dan Bongino and Cash Patel particularly, um, and Pam Bondi too, but more so the other two is that these guys went around and really Dan Bongino. [1:12:09] I mean, Cash did many podcasts and stuff, but Dan Bongino got rich doing his show at a really big show and he flamed that Epstein stuff for so long was like, don't let go of this one. [1:12:23] This is a huge scandal. [1:12:24] We're going to get in there and expose it. [1:12:26] And I got to say every bit as much as the war in Iran, maybe not quite as much as this most recent one, but the covering up the Epstein scandal did so much to damage this administration totally because it went to something very fundamental. [1:12:41] The fundamental promise of Donald Trump and the reason why Donald Trump, uh, I, I believe the main reason that he rode to political success and won the presidency twice was that, uh, was that he said he was going to drain the swamp. [1:12:56] Drain the swamp was an incredibly effective campaign slogan. [1:13:01] It was essentially saying, look, man, on some level, almost all Americans know this. [1:13:06] This city in DC is filled with corruption and the people in political power have committed profound crimes against the American people and none of them have been held accountable for it. [1:13:18] And we're going to hold them accountable for this. [1:13:20] And for this justice department now to go in and put up zero deep state arrests, I mean, dude, if you just think about the fact that the intelligence agencies framed the sitting president for treason for four years. [1:13:36] I mean, an obvious deep state coup to, uh, to overthrow or an attempted deep state coup to attempt to overthrow a democratically elected president. [1:13:46] Like it is, it was an outrage that they did it to him on the campaign, but it is a little bit different when he's a presidential candidate than when he is the commander in chief, the president of the United States of America. [1:13:57] They framed him for being a Russian spy. Donald Trump is a lot of things. He is not a Russian spy. Okay. There has never been one. [1:14:03] It was the most ridiculous thing ever. It was all complete phony evidence and they knew it. They knowingly went forward with that. [1:14:09] And, um, Andrew, uh, Andrew McCabe admitted on 60 minutes that he said their plan was to invoke the 25th amendment, but they realized they couldn't get enough people to go along with that. [1:14:20] And so they settled for Robert Mueller, they settled for a special investigation that would tie him down and not let him get his America first, uh, agenda through. [1:14:30] So there's that there's COVID there's, you know what I'm saying? There's the Epstein stuff. There's all types of crime. [1:14:36] I mean, COVID you think about it, we free, they freaking locked down the country and didn't disclose that they made it. [1:14:42] They made the germ themselves. Fauci was like the hero of the response for like a year and a half before they finally came out that it was him who made it. [1:14:50] I mean, just, and, and they have just at every turn protected power. [1:14:56] And again, like with the Epstein thing, man, like you don't have to, you only have to know, like, I don't know. [1:15:02] You just know, like, even if you know, like five or six things about it, you're like, okay, this is some type of huge conspiracy. [1:15:08] You know, like, I don't know exactly what it is. And by the way, the files being released did shake up my interpretation of the whole thing. [1:15:16] I tweeted this once, but I kind of, I mean, I was saying it tongue in cheek, but I kind of meant it sincerely that I used to speculate that Jeffrey Epstein worked for Mossad. [1:15:26] And after the files came out, it's looking a lot more like the Mossad worked for Jeffrey Epstein. [1:15:31] I mean, I did not think he was the, the Rothschilds guy. I didn't realize that, you know? [1:15:36] And so like, this thing is a gigantic conspiracy. It's a, it's an interesting limited look into how power really works. [1:15:46] And, and you know what I mean? Like what's really going on? [1:15:48] It's like looking through a stained glass window. You don't get a clear picture, but you see the shapes and you realize this is not what I thought it was. [1:15:55] I actually came away from reading a lot of the Epstein stuff with a view of Israel that was diminished. [1:16:01] I thought Israel had less power. Of course he was working with Mossad. [1:16:05] I said that and got called a Jew hater or whatever. It was just true. [1:16:08] So we're also working with CIA and intelligence services from around the world. [1:16:11] But what he really was doing was acting as an employee of others as a kind of communications hub between the biggest stakeholders in the West. [1:16:21] And so what you really saw was the governments aren't in charge. There's no meaningful nation state with full sovereignty. Like that's just not a thing. [1:16:30] There's a superstructure whose outlines I can't fully see or even partly see, but it's clearly there. And it's not all being run from the Levant by Netanyahu. [1:16:40] He's probably got an IQ of 110. He's not a genius. So like, do you know what I mean? [1:16:45] Yes. Yes. 100%. [1:16:46] It's way bigger than Israel. Israel is just like a place to hide out if you've been accused of a crime, get a passport, do some money laundering, you know, whatever. [1:16:54] It's a lot of things, but it's not. Israel's not running the world. [1:16:57] Yeah. No, there's something that you're absolutely right. There is. There is. There are power structures that we do not fully know about that are way more important than a senator. [1:17:07] Of course, because we bought the biggest lie of all, which is a competition between nation states. And you know what I mean? [1:17:12] Yeah, that's right. [1:17:13] Ghana's got its own interests, but so does Singapore and China and India. And it's like, yeah, to some extent, but that's not as soon as you have the free flow of capital, a globalized economy. [1:17:24] Then you have a globalized government. It's just a fact. And by government, I mean, a governing body, which may be informal or have blurry edges, but it's still totally real. It's way more real than countries. [1:17:36] Yeah. Yeah. How are countries like that's like almost a medieval view? Well, even countries with kings and armies. It's like so dumb. [1:17:44] Yeah, no, that's right. And maybe it was, you know, it's like it probably wasn't even true in medieval times. You know what I mean? [1:17:51] It literally wasn't. But like after 1848, like after you had like the creation of like real what the resemblance or the maybe the fiction of nation states. [1:18:01] I mean, I think it's more complicated than I'm making it sound. But yeah, it's clearly not as simple as everyone else assumes. [1:18:07] Yeah. Well, I know the country's actually in their own interests. It's one. [1:18:10] It's it's an there's this really great book written by Murray Rothbard, who I mentioned earlier, called The Progressive Era. [1:18:17] And it's about, you know, the it's about I think that goes from it might like Theodore Roosevelt for Woodrow Wilson, FDR. [1:18:27] And one of the things that they talk about is that there was and this really is true is that there were like there were real people who really like meant well and were kind of, in my opinion, got it wrong. [1:18:39] But, you know, the the kind of moderate socialist types or the progressives who who were like, hey, we're such a wealthy country. [1:18:46] We should have more of a managed economy so that we can make sure it's working for everybody. [1:18:50] But really what ends up happening in the Progressive Era is then all the, you know, all the titans of industry, all the robber barons, as they call it, they all got on board with it. [1:19:02] And they went, oh, yeah, totally. We should have a managed economy. Yeah, absolutely. [1:19:05] We'll be doing the managing. You know, it was all it was like all the money interest that they supposedly wanted to reign in were the guys who ended up getting control of the government anyway. [1:19:15] And so this is how it works. [1:19:16] Dude, it's Black Lives Matter as sponsored by Microsoft. [1:19:18] Yeah, that's right. That's right. [1:19:19] It's always the same. [1:19:21] The gay pride parade has like a Bank of America float coming through it. [1:19:25] And you're like, I mean, I know there is some leftist out there who really believes in the gay pride parade, but like something bigger is going on than what you're paying attention to. [1:19:32] Dave, no, really, it's liberation. Just trust me. This is going to be liberation. [1:19:36] It's too ridiculous, man. [1:19:39] I know. [1:19:40] Well, good. Thank you for everything you're doing. [1:19:42] Oh, of course. [1:19:43] And I'm sorry if that got, I never get emotional, but I'm sorry. [1:19:45] I'm sorry.