Current with Christine Romans – Aug. 14 — NBC News NOW

[0:02] And good morning. It's 10 a.m. Eastern and 7 a.m. on the West Coast. [0:06] I'm Christine Romans. Let's get you current. [0:08] Breaking now, accused CEO killer Luigi Mangione appearing in court this morning, [0:13] expected to plead guilty to federal stalking charges, what it could mean for his more serious state case. [0:19] Also breaking, more severe weather in the already flood-ravaged Midwest. [0:23] A new storm threat on the way. Maggie Vespa live in the storm zone. [0:27] New developments in the crisis on board the USS Lincoln. [0:30] Those sailors now coming home after reports of dire conditions will look at the toll long deployments can take. [0:39] And the shocking act of vandalism at the World War II Memorial in Washington, an investigation now underway. [0:45] And good to be with you. This is busy Friday, August 14th. A lot to get to this morning. [0:55] Let's begin this hour with breaking news. [0:57] Accused CEO killer Luigi Mangione is due back in a Manhattan federal court within an hour. [1:03] Sources tell NBC News that he's expected to enter a guilty plea in his federal case. [1:08] The terms of that plea is still unclear. [1:10] And if there is a plea, what happens after that? Also unclear. [1:14] In the federal case, Mangione faces two counts of stalking. [1:18] If convicted, he could face a life sentence. [1:21] We have team coverage on this story. [1:22] NBC News correspondent Sam Brock is outside of the Manhattan courthouse. [1:26] Also with us is Manhattan-based criminal defense attorney Jeremy Saland. [1:30] Sam, let's start with you. What do we know about this possible guilty plea? [1:36] Christine, it's good to be with you. [1:38] Look, this is likely to be a milestone moment in the Mangione case and legal saga. [1:43] The reality is, though, there are so many possible permutations. [1:46] No one knows really what shape that's going to take. [1:49] Christine, let's rewind it back for a second. [1:51] The reason that we're here today is because both prosecutors for the federal government [1:55] and attorneys for Mangione wrote a letter to the federal judge on Tuesday after a state hearing [2:00] requesting this hearing today. [2:02] It was not on the docket, right? [2:03] So there was some movement on something. [2:06] And now we're here on Friday morning. [2:08] With respect to what you were just describing a second ago, [2:11] sources familiar with the matter and with today's planned hearing tell NBC News [2:14] that Luigi Mangione is expected to plead guilty to federal charges. [2:18] But there's a big caveat here, Christine, right? [2:20] He is facing those two federal stalking charges that do come with a possible life sentence. [2:25] But we don't know if Mangione and his team have actually agreed to those charges specifically [2:29] or a different deal. [2:31] So it's federal charges as an umbrella, but not clear if it's stalking or not. [2:35] There's also the reality that Mangione could get into court today [2:38] and go through something called elocution. [2:40] That's where the judge sort of probes, what did you do? [2:43] What are you acknowledging guilt of? [2:45] Why did you do that? [2:46] Mangione at any point in time can either provide answers that are not sufficient [2:49] to meet her criteria, or he can decide to not plead guilty altogether. [2:54] So these are sort of all the different directions that it could go. [2:57] There's also many folks who are probably wondering, [2:59] why would the federal government in this case cut a deal with Luigi Mangione, [3:02] especially since they were initially pursuing capital punishment [3:05] for the judge throughout the charge that would have enabled that to happen? [3:08] There's a couple of possible answers. [3:10] One of them is that there's been so much energy, so much eccentricity, [3:14] and so many people who have been advocating on behalf of Luigi Mangione nationally. [3:17] He raised somewhere in the neighborhood of a million and a half dollars that perhaps the [3:21] feds don't want to put themselves in a position where just one juror who might be sympathetic [3:25] to Mangione or bring an ideological bent to the case could change the outcome of everything. [3:30] There is also an interesting point here that generally in plea deals, Christine, [3:33] you have a scenario where the defendant will waive their right to appeal, [3:36] so it becomes more of an open and closed case. [3:39] There's this old saying for prosecutors that if someone is willing to plead guilty to the top line [3:44] of counts, that is sort of like a slam-dunk scenario where you would move forward. [3:48] Is that what's going on here? We don't know. [3:51] The other thing that I would point out, there's been a lot of conversation around the topic of [3:54] double jeopardy and the fact that in New York state you have charges that are second-degree [3:58] murder and weapons charges, so that's obviously a more elevated crime from the stalking charges [4:03] that are present in the federal jurisdiction. [4:05] It is entirely possible that a state judge would decide, if Mangione does plead guilty today, [4:11] that this would constitute double jeopardy, that there would be a criminal transaction, [4:15] even though the charges aren't exactly the same, stalking and murder, [4:19] that were underlined by the same criminal behavior, and if they find that, could toss out the state case. [4:24] That is, though, sort of shrouded in mystery and ambiguity because it's not sort of an open [4:28] or closed case in that regard. It really is going to depend upon the discretion of the judge. [4:33] One last point. The judge today is not going to be sentencing Mangione if he pleads guilty, [4:37] but whenever that sentencing actually happens, let's say hypothetically it's in a couple of weeks, [4:40] she gets the sentencing guidelines or whatever was agreed to between parties, [4:44] but Judge Garnett doesn't have to adhere to that. Pristine, she can decide based on the totality [4:49] of circumstances what she knows happened in New York and Pennsylvania, what Mangione says in court, [4:55] to decide what she feels is the best punishment. And former federal prosecutors that I'm talking to [5:00] tell me they think it is extremely likely that if Luigi Mangione is to plead guilty, [5:04] he would be facing something very close to life in prison, if not, in fact, a life sentence. [5:09] So there's just so many layers, so much complexity to all of this, and hopefully we're going to find [5:13] out some answers in the next hour or so. Yeah. And Sam, quickly, are we hearing anything before [5:16] this hearing from prosecutors or the defense this morning? So we have asked both the defense [5:23] team and also DOJ prosecutors whether or not they would even confirm a deal. They declined to [5:28] comment. They did confirm the actual hearing, which is about to start here at about 11 o'clock [5:32] Eastern, but they wouldn't provide any detail on the contours of a deal, which is why we're sort of [5:36] all stuck in limbo right now, waiting to find out what he agreed to, Mangione, if in fact he did, [5:42] and whether he'll actually plead guilty in court. All right, Sam Brock, we're going to let you get [5:45] inside the courthouse now to cover this for us. Thanks, Sam. Jeremy, bringing you in here, [5:50] what is the legal strategy if he were to plead guilty to these federal stalking charges? What is [5:58] the strategy for Mangione's team? It's pretty straightforward. Again, federally, [6:03] this dual sovereignty rule allows these two competing, or not necessarily competing, [6:07] two jurisdictional cases to proceed. But New York is strict. It's tight. It's different. [6:12] It says you can't do that when it stems from the underlying same offense, same criminal transaction. [6:18] And these are different charges and different elements to a certain extent. [6:22] Once again, we know a murder charges and the other relates to stalking. But if we as the defense can say, [6:27] you made that allocution, you've pleaded, and now you have done this in federal court, [6:31] you've knocked out the state case, and now I'm not going to Attica. I'm not going to Sing Sing. [6:37] I'm going to be in federal custody, even if it's still potentially my life incarceration. [6:42] So this is an attempt by his legal team to get the best possible outcome for Luigi Mangione. [6:46] Yeah. Why are we going to try two cases? You know, there was a time, if you recall, [6:50] that Judge Caro, who's a state judge, said, I will entertain this application about there being a [6:57] double jeopardy issue, but it's not ripe right now. There's no plea. This gets them to that point. [7:02] This avoids two trials. [7:04] Why are there two cases? Why are there two separate prosecutions of this man? [7:09] I'm so glad you're asking me that question, because I think there absolutely unequivocally [7:13] should not be. The federal government has no business in this case. It may ruffle feathers, [7:19] and it may sound, well, why are you saying that? I think the federal government, what we call big [7:24] footed, if that's a term of art that's used to say, basically, they came in and took from the state [7:28] this case, which is a murder case, which murder cases are generally handled by the state. And we [7:33] don't see the Southern District routinely going after bad actors who stalk people across state [7:39] lines, for example, domestic violence cases, which these types of stalking charges are great for and [7:44] great for, and regularly prosecuting domestic abusers who kill women across state lines with [7:49] firearms. You see them prosecuted in the state. We saw what happened when Mangione came back to New York, [7:55] and it was like he was landing on an aircraft carrier, and this was some declaration, and the [8:00] federal government scooped him up. This is really ego-driven. I hate to say it, and what's lost here [8:05] is Brian Thompson's death. It should be the main focus in his family, and that was being handled by [8:11] the Manhattan District Attorney's Office. Yeah, a father of two, an Iowa native who, really from a [8:16] small town in Iowa, who went on to run UnitedHealthcare and then became sort of the face of this horrible, [8:21] horrible crime. Often, we just talk about Louie Mangione, not Brian Thompson. I'm glad [8:25] you brought that up. Thank you so much. We're going to talk to you again. We're going to continue [8:28] to follow this over the next a couple of hours. Thanks, Jeremy. We've got Sam Brock heading into [8:33] the courtroom, as you can see there. All right, we're going to monitor all these developments [8:37] throughout the hour and bring you the latest as we get it. We're also tracking those unrelenting storms [8:41] drenching the Midwest now for a six-day in a row. New evacuation orders issued in parts of Indiana, [8:46] where river levels crested at record heights overnight. Look at that. Water as high as mailboxes. [8:51] Roads completely submerged. Crews navigating streets by boat to rescue people trapped by the [8:57] floodwaters. The rain is not over yet. 17 million people are under flood watches today from Iowa to [9:02] West Virginia. Hundreds of thousands across the region are still without power. At least three [9:07] storm-related deaths have been reported this week. Meteorologist Angie Lassman will have the forecast [9:11] for us in just a moment, but I want to begin with NBC News correspondent Maggie Vespa. Maggie has been in [9:16] Indiana for us. Maggie, more flooding, more evacuation orders, now a statewide disaster emergency [9:21] in place. Tell us what you're seeing on the ground. I mean, Christine, it's like the worst version of [9:27] Groundhog Day possible. I'm not sure if you can see this on camera, but it's starting to rain once again [9:32] here in Anderson, Indiana, which is like the last thing this area needs. Obviously, this is flooding [9:37] from the White River, the one that crested at historic highs around 2 a.m., close to 25 feet. [9:43] That's the one that's flooding this area. And again, it's just been a week of unrelenting storms, [9:47] unrelenting rain. It's clearly wreaking havoc. More relentless rain hammering the Midwest, [9:55] combined with destructive winds gusting up to 75 miles per hour. After days of high water rescues [10:04] in Indiana, this man climbing out of his vehicle with a dog to escape a flooded road. In the city of [10:12] Anderson, evacuation orders issued late Thursday, with the White River cresting overnight at nearly [10:17] 25 feet, a new record. In nearby Cambridge City, residents wading through water to get back to their [10:24] flooded homes. For many, the reality of what's left is overwhelming. I'm so sorry. How are you even [10:35] taking this in right now? I'm not. Everything's gone. That is more rain that you're going to get [10:44] in probably 100 years. Indiana's governor declaring a statewide disaster emergency with more than 200,000 [10:51] still without power. This after a punishing run of severe storms across several states. [10:59] In South Dakota, lightning striking just feet from state troopers. Meanwhile, Hawaii bracing for what [11:08] could be the first hurricane to make landfall on the Big Island, with Tropical Storm Lala still [11:13] strengthening as it approaches. A week of violent weather leaving devastation in its wake. [11:22] Maggie, you've been talking to folks there who've really lost everything. There's some [11:26] heartbreaking stories from people talking to you. Yeah, Christine, there really are. And you know, [11:31] something that we keep hearing from people who have lived in this area, this state their entire [11:35] life, is that number one, they've never seen anything like this, which obviously tracks with the [11:39] like historic river levels, historic flooding that we're seeing. Number two, a lot of different [11:43] stories about people learning some hard truths about insurance and flood insurance, many of whom [11:47] frankly don't have flood insurance. Now they're praying that the state or FEMA somehow steps in [11:53] the state issuing that disaster declaration. But right now, all that's meant is that state agencies [11:58] are helping with the cleanup and like helping people get out if they need to. Another woman that we [12:03] talked to in that piece, that couple you heard, and I'll reiterate, she said they do have [12:07] flood insurance, but they learned in the day, on the day that their house was flooding, that it [12:11] doesn't cover most of their possessions. So even people with that coverage, so to speak, [12:18] may have lost everything. Christine. All right, Maggie, Maggie Vespa for us in Indiana. Thanks so [12:23] much, Maggie. Okay, joining us now, NBC News meteorologist Angie Lastman. Angie, the rain just will [12:28] not let up. How much longer is this expected to stick around? Unfortunately, Christine, we don't have [12:32] great news for folks in some of those same spots. The Midwest gets no rest so far. We've still [12:37] got some of these kind of really active thunderstorms and even heavy rain in some spots [12:40] ongoing across those same locations, stretching from Nebraska across parts of Iowa, Illinois, [12:46] Indiana, and even farther west from Ohio into West Virginia so far this morning. This is going to be [12:52] the setup that we see continuing through the rest of our day today. All on that periphery of that heat [12:56] dome is where we'll see those stronger storms kind of firing up with that heavy rain. It's worth [13:00] mentioning that climate change, of course, exacerbates these heavy rainfall events, adding that moisture [13:05] to the atmosphere. And that means that we're oftentimes seeing more frequent and heavier [13:10] rainfall in some of these spots that, as Maggie said, they haven't seen it before. We've still got [13:14] the flooding concern across parts of the Midwest, but the severe risk is much smaller still. It's not [13:19] zero. So some tornadoes isolated, maybe some strong winds and hail possible. And then tomorrow, [13:25] that severe risk shifts across parts of Michigan, stretching down into the Carolinas with those same [13:29] threats on the table. The flooding, a big concern again today. You can see the worst spot for it [13:34] that we're most concerned about, Des Moines to Peoria, but pretty expansive when you add in the fact [13:39] that folks in these areas have, Christine, received up to a foot of rain in some spots, and there's [13:44] additional, kind of, even a couple of inches is going to, is going to worsen what they're already [13:48] dealing with. Yeah, I'm basically seeing everybody in my family in, in that zone right there. It has been [13:53] real tough. Officials also tracking a tropical storm heading toward Hawaii. How's that shaping up? [13:58] Right. We've also got some flooding concerns for our friends in the Hawaiian island chain. We've got [14:03] tropical storm Lala kind of eyeing the islands, and we've got hurricane warnings up for the big [14:08] island and a tropical storm watch to the points north and west of that for the rest of the islands. [14:12] Here's what we've got so far. Winds at 60 miles per hour. This is kind of getting its act together, [14:16] and we do expect it to become a hurricane before it kind of either skirts just to the south of the [14:22] big island or moves directly over it. You can see that cone does include parts of the southern half [14:27] of the island as we get into the later parts of Saturday. Notice, though, it likely will become a [14:31] Category 1 hurricane by tomorrow morning. The impacts for the island will start tonight. It'll [14:36] be the heavy rain in addition to the strong winds and especially those elevated locations. But the [14:41] rainfall is going to be just downright impressive, Christine. We could be looking at upwards of 25 [14:46] inches of rain in some of these spots. We know the topography of the island. That is problematic when [14:51] it comes to not just flooding, but also the mudslides. We'll also see some issues with those damaging winds [14:56] and the coastal areas. The dangerous surf will be on the table, too. [15:00] All right, Angie, last minute. And thanks for bringing us up to speed, Angie. [15:03] We are following breaking news out of Washington. The Trump administration has asked the Supreme [15:07] Court to allow construction of the White House ballroom to continue. Today's emergency application [15:12] just days after a federal appeals court blocked work on the building. While the legal fight moves [15:18] forward, President Trump says the ballroom is necessary for national security. This morning, [15:24] the Pentagon is disputing reports of poor conditions aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln. And the Navy [15:28] now says another carrier is on its way to replace the Lincoln in the Middle East. The carrier has been [15:35] on a record deployment as part of the ongoing war in Iran. The mother of one sailor telling NBC [15:41] the problems have been building for months. I'm not just talking about one isolated incident where he [15:48] complains about the conditions. This has been trending and spiraling downward since about March [15:54] or April with no supplies, food shortages, low morale. NBC chief White House correspondent Garrett [16:03] Hake joins us now with the latest. Garrett? The sailors and Marines aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln have [16:10] been through a deployment now so long that they have not set foot on dry land in 2026. Reports of the [16:16] conditions aboard that ship and of disturbing man overboard incidents first began to surface in [16:21] military focused news outlets like the Military Times. And now more family members are speaking out [16:27] and lawmakers are demanding answers. This morning, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth responding after [16:35] reports of deteriorating conditions and morale aboard U.S. ships deployed in the war against Iran. [16:41] The problems reportedly most acute aboard the aircraft carrier Abraham Lincoln at sea now for a record [16:47] 244 consecutive days. Completely misrepresented. Listen, we make sure that every ship, every crew, [16:57] every captain has everything we can provide them at every single moment. Some deployments are longer [17:02] than others. The more than 5,000 sailors and Marines on board the Lincoln have not set foot on land [17:08] since December. Danielle Rapa's son is on board. He describes the overall experience as a scene out of [17:15] the American horror story, where he feels like everybody is dead, but they don't know it yet. [17:21] According to multiple U.S. officials, there have also been some concerning man overboard incidents on [17:27] the Lincoln. The Pentagon now says a sailor went overboard earlier this month and is receiving care off the ship, [17:34] as one Democratic senator is highlighting other reported issues on board, including, quote, shortages of basic [17:41] supplies, water contamination, plumbing issues, deteriorating mental health and deck safety concerns, [17:47] along with mail delays. A U.S. official telling NBC News that fresh food has been limited, while the Pentagon [17:54] saying, quote, leadership prioritized mission-critical supplies, first food, then hygiene items, then mail. [18:01] Melody Stowe says her daughter has been aboard the ship since last October. [18:05] So it's a little bit longer than she anticipated. They've had issues with supplies arriving late. [18:11] According to a U.S. official, the Lincoln is now set to sail home, replaced by the U.S.S. George [18:17] Washington in the coming weeks. And now a growing number of lawmakers from both parties are demanding [18:22] answers. At what point did these issues become a national security concern? [18:28] They're a national security concern right now. It performs vital missions in projecting our power [18:33] and the credibility of our forces. Those who are serving have to have, you know, [18:39] comfort knowing that, you know, they're getting properly taken care of. [18:43] Those sailors and Marines aboard the Lincoln will soon be getting home, but only after a handoff [18:48] process with the George Washington when it arrives from the Pacific and then a roughly two-week sail [18:53] back to the Lincoln's home port in San Diego. All right, Garrett Haake, thank you so much. Let's bring in [18:59] NBC News military analyst and former Pentagon spokesperson, Colonel Steve Warren. Colonel Warren, [19:03] you heard that mother describing food shortages, dwindling supplies, low morale, her son even [19:10] comparing his experiences to American horror story. What's your reaction to hearing conditions [19:15] described that way aboard a U.S. Navy aircraft carrier? Yeah, it's been a long deployment, [19:21] right? It's been a long, difficult deployment. The Navy has not faced a deployment of this intensity, [19:29] I would say, for many, many years, really since the Iraq war. And in this case, what's unique about this [19:36] particular deployment is the fact that they haven't really had a chance to set foot on land [19:43] for almost nine months. You know, a carrier deployment is normally six to nine months long, [19:48] so that's not unusual. But what happens during those six to nine months is the carriers pull into [19:53] various ports around the world and the sailors get off and they have some shore leave and they resupply [20:00] and they get a chance to settle down and reset, blow off some steam. They haven't had that opportunity [20:06] while they've been under the simultaneous pressure of active combat operations. So it's really taking [20:12] its toll. Yeah. Talk to me a little bit about the strain that comes with these longer deployments. [20:16] And you mentioned they're in a war zone. There is an active combat situation happening there. So [20:23] that must be a level of stress and anxiety that's different from a normal deployment. [20:28] Well, it certainly is. And understand that a United States Navy aircraft carrier is this [20:36] extraordinarily complex system of systems. And they're doing so much all the time. They're [20:42] conducting flight operations, you know, launching jets, recovering jets at sea, on the move, often [20:49] at night. They're defending themselves from Iranian drones and missile attacks. They're always nervous [20:55] that something bad is going to happen. On top of that, they have a nuclear reactor that they have [21:01] to keep operating. That's a lot to do. All of that under combat conditions. It's tough. [21:06] All right. Colonel Steve Warren, thank you so much. Talk again soon. Much more ahead on current, [21:11] including President Trump's handpicked Kennedy Center board defying a judge. The path now open [21:17] to get Trump's name back on that building. Plus, the new lawsuit against Selena Gomez and her mother [21:23] are accused of fraud tied to their mental health startup. We have the details. And the critical hearing [21:28] today for disgraced South Carolina attorney Alex Murdoch, as he awaits a retrial on charges he murdered [21:35] his family. We'll get you current after the break. A case of vandalism at the World War II Memorial at [21:46] the Capitol and so far no arrests. The fountain bubbled over with soap suds yesterday and was [21:52] splattered with red and green paint. The phrase clean hands, dirty money with the dollar sign symbol [21:58] was painted on one surface. Joining us now, NBC News senior justice reporter Ryan Riley ran. This [22:05] memorial is in an area of D.C. that really sees a lot of tourist traffic. The Department of the Interior [22:10] says there is an investigation ongoing. Any leads on who did this? Yeah, no arrests thus far that we've [22:17] seen. But we did see this statement from the government saying that, you know, there are many [22:21] places in our country for expression, debate and disagreement, a national memorial honoring those [22:26] who served and those who never returned home should never be used as a canvas for vandalism. I mean, [22:31] obviously that's an extremely important spot in America. You, you know, have had these flights of [22:38] individuals of veterans come in to visit that memorial. That's been an ongoing, you know, in D.C. [22:44] for years. And so, you know, a very important spot there. But, you know, it's getting a little bit [22:49] mixed up with some of the other incidents that unrelated incidents that we've seen regarding, [22:54] you know, other key locations, including that reflecting pool nearby to the this monument. [23:00] You have new reaction from the president. What did he say? [23:03] Yeah, that's right. He described, you know, these individuals as animals and said that they're, [23:10] you know, hot on their trail, whoever committed this act. But I think it's, you know, important to [23:14] separate here. This was clearly an act of vandalism that we saw at the World War II memorial. But [23:19] the reflecting pool had all of these issues with the contractor. And that's the government's own [23:24] representation in court filings because they initially charged someone who they later dropped the [23:29] charges against. That was all, you know, the reflecting pool incidents were because of contractor [23:35] error. Whereas, obviously, when you have talking about an incident with spray painting, it's unclear [23:39] what the motive, you know, was behind this. But obviously, sort of a different category, an actual [23:44] act of vandalism as opposed to some of the stuff that we saw at the reflecting pool. [23:48] All right, Ryan Riley in D.C. for us. Thanks, Ryan. [23:51] From a major shift in U.S. cyber policy to a lawsuit against Harvard dismissed. Let's get you [23:56] politically current this morning. A federal judge dismisses a Trump administration lawsuit against [24:00] Harvard. That suit alleged the university had failed to protect Jewish and Israeli students [24:05] from harassment. The judge ruled the administration did not prove ongoing violations of civil rights [24:11] on the Ivy League's campus. No response yet from either Harvard or the White House. [24:17] To the shakeup at the White House press podium, a senior administration official tells NBC News [24:22] the president does intend to replace Caroline Levitt as White House press secretary, but that [24:27] he is not in any hurry to do so. Levitt, a staunch Trump ally and defender, is expected to leave at [24:32] the end of the month. The administration is now empowering American companies to conduct their own [24:38] cyber attacks against hackers. It's a move the White House says will help combat criminal hacks and [24:44] trends like ransomware attacks. It is a huge shift in U.S. cyber policy. Critics warn it will only unleash [24:51] legal and digital chaos. Coming up, a jury now seated in the Tupac Shakur murder trial when opening [24:58] statements are expected to begin. Plus, we'll go back to a New York City courthouse ahead of a hearing [25:02] for accused CEO killer Luigi Mangione, expected to plead guilty to federal charges. We have more [25:08] current right after this. From a jury seated in the Tupac murder trial to the spread of cyclospora, [25:19] let's get you current on the other headlines we're following today. Michigan is now reporting nearly [25:23] 14,000 cases of cyclosporiasis. That's up about 11% in just a week. But state health officials say [25:30] much of that increase is from a backlog in processing cases. They say cases are actually [25:36] slowing and the worst of this outbreak may be over. The outbreak has reached 17 states and linked to [25:42] iceberg lettuce. Selena Gomez and her mother are facing a lawsuit over their mental health startup. [25:47] The suit alleges Gomez, her mother and other founders falsely presented plans to make the company [25:52] Wondermind profitable, including promises of an app, big ad deals, and celebrity cover stories. [25:58] One of Gomez's co-founders called the allegations categorically false. No comment from Gomez or her [26:04] mom. A jury is now in place for the trial of the former gang leader accused of ordering Tupac Shakur's [26:09] killing. Dwayne Keffy D. Davis is accused of helping orchestrate the 1996 drive-by shooting that killed the [26:16] rapper. The case is now moving forward in Las Vegas with the opening statements expected Monday. [26:21] Davis has pleaded not guilty. Now back to our breaking news. The accused CEO killer Luigi Mangione [26:26] due back in New York City court in about a half hour. Sources tell NBC News that he's expected to [26:32] plead guilty in his federal case. Brian Thompson's family arrived in the courthouse in Manhattan [26:38] just moments ago. Thompson was a father of two who grew up in Iowa, rose to become the CEO of United [26:44] Healthcare. Defense attorneys for Mangione also just arriving. He's facing two counts of stalking in this case. [26:51] Which have a maximum sentence of life in prison. In his separate state case, Mangione is facing [26:57] several other charges, including second-degree murder. Back with us outside of the Manhattan [27:01] courthouse, NBC News correspondent Stephanie Gosk. NBC News legal analyst Angela Senadella is also with [27:07] us. And Manhattan-based criminal defense attorney Jeremy Saland is also. Saland is also back. [27:12] Stephanie, any update from prosecutors or the defense here? [27:17] Yeah, not yet, Christine. They haven't said anything. The defense team, as you say, [27:20] just went in. They didn't make any comment at all. This hearing is supposed to start at 11 a.m. [27:24] And it's important to understand that there is no plea deal until it happens in court and the judge [27:29] accepts it. A couple of things to look for in this hearing today. The first, I would say, [27:34] is allocution. So that is, once the plea deal, Luigi Mangione stands up and agrees to the plea deal, [27:39] the judge is effectively going to say to him, describe what you did. Tell us what the crime was, [27:44] so that the judge hears how it went down. So we will be hearing, most likely, in his own words, [27:50] Luigi Mangione describe the crime. That's one thing to look for. The second thing to look for [27:55] is Brian Thompson's family. Now, soon after Brian Thompson was killed here in Midtown Manhattan, [28:01] his wife did make some comments, but we have not heard from the family since then. And in federal court, [28:07] the family is allowed to weigh in on any potential plea deal. So we may hear from the family or hear [28:14] from them at some point during this hearing. All of this to say that there are enormous amount of [28:19] questions that remain on what happens next. What are the barriers, the constructs of this plea deal? [28:26] What happens going forward? And what does that mean for the state case? That state case is supposed to [28:31] start on September 8th. And at this point, it seems at a bare minimum, if there is a plea deal [28:36] on the federal case, that that timeline is going to be pushed down. And it is entirely likely [28:42] that there is no state trial at all, which means there will not be a trial for Luigi Mangione, [28:48] Christine. You know, we just saw Brian Thompson's family entering a side door there. Stephanie, [28:53] we know the courtroom is slowly filling up with members of the public and the press. [28:58] Talk to us about timing here. How soon could we hear from the judge? [29:05] Yes, we will hear from the judge for sure when the hearing begins. And there are going to be a [29:09] number of questions that are going to be asked. You know, the judge is going to make sure that this [29:13] plea deal is locked up. You may remember from the Brian Kohlberger case, that was the Idaho murders [29:18] case, that there were a series of questions that the judge asked. Things like, you understand what [29:22] you have agreed to. You have not been coerced into this agreement. A lot of that kind of thing will be [29:28] asked because that buttons up a plea deal. And then, as I mentioned, a description, Luigi Mangione will [29:35] have to give a description of what he did, Christine. All right. Thanks so much, [29:39] Steph Gask, for that. Let's bring it back to the legal eagles here. Angela, what's the best [29:43] possible outcome and the worst possible outcome from Luigi Mangione? Okay, so if he pleads guilty, [29:49] the relevant context here is that these federal charges are just for stalking. He got the murder [29:54] charge here dropped. But the state trial that is upcoming is for murder. So the reason why pleading [29:59] guilty here could be his best case scenario is because through the doctrine of double jeopardy, [30:04] which in New York state is significant, it is possible then that his lawyers could get that [30:09] state charge of murder dropped. But the worst case scenario is that if he does plead guilty here in [30:14] federal court, he's admitting that he did all of these bad things that he is on trial for, right? [30:19] And that admission then could be included in state trial. If those charges are not dropped at the [30:24] state trial, that means then he is admitting openly that he has done everything that he could possibly [30:29] then be convicted for murder. Jeremy, it's so interesting. This is really legal drama unfolding [30:33] before our very eyes here. We don't know exactly what's going to happen. The indications are that [30:37] he's going to plead guilty to these stalking charges. Again, there are two different cases [30:43] here happening. One is the state one. One is the federal case. Is his team jockeying here that they [30:48] might have some sort of double jeopardy argument that they can make? Absolutely. And they're looking [30:52] at Paul Manafort and they're saying it worked for him. It could work for him. Remind us what happened [30:56] there. So what happened there is that was a federal charge and a federal case there. And ultimately, [31:01] the state took those almost exact same charges underlying circumstances instead of facts and [31:06] prosecuted on the state level. And New York said, no, you can't do that because double jeopardy [31:10] applies. You're out of the box, New York. The feds came first. You're second in time. You're done. [31:15] That's what we're playing for here if I'm the defense. Yes, there's a risk that if it doesn't [31:19] go through, what I say in court is Mangione can be used against me later on. But let's be real here. [31:25] That was his defense is weak realistically on the facts and on the evidence that we've seen in [31:30] court. So this is really the best strategy after we've already tried the extreme emotional distress [31:35] possible defense that may rear its head if this fails. But how do we get this case and get rid of [31:41] anything and going to Attica, going to that Shawshank type prison upstate New York? We deal with the [31:47] feds. We take a plea with the feds and the state case is done. Let's rewind a little bit here because [31:51] you had these federal charges that were that were launched. And in the beginning, it seemed as [31:58] though the state was going to take the lead and the state was going to prosecute first. But then [32:02] things changed. And now you've got sort of this legal muddle here. Yeah, we sort of mentioned that [32:08] before and I brought that up before. Generally speaking, a murder case, a murder charge is a state [32:13] case. That is why Manhattan, as in the Manhattan District Attorney's Office in the state of New York, [32:17] prosecuted this matter. They are the ones who did the homework, meaning the investigation with the [32:21] NYPD and the other jurisdictions. They are the ones who let out and had the suppression hearing. [32:27] We would expect that this would be prosecuted in a state court. It really should never have been [32:31] in a federal court other than the term I used before, big footing, because it is a sensational [32:36] case. And I said it again, and I'll say it now. We don't want to forget Brian Thompson. Whatever the [32:41] final outcome is, if there is a plea, it's about Brian Thompson. I can't imagine what his family is [32:45] thinking right now, coming in through that side door, that courtyard, courtroom, trying to figure out what [32:49] is next here. Don't go far, because there's a lot happening in the next 20, 25 minutes or so. Thank [32:54] you both. All right, we're looking at a live look at South Carolina court, where a pretrial hearing for [32:59] accused murderer Alec Murdoch is happening right now. Murdoch is in plain clothes, unshackled for the [33:04] first time since he was found guilty of murdering his wife and youngest son back in 2023. Now, that [33:10] conviction was overturned by the state's high court in May because of jury tampering by the court clerk. [33:16] Murdoch's retrial is slated for next year. In the meantime, Murdoch remains in prison where he is [33:22] serving both a federal and state sentence for financial crimes. Joining us now, NBC News [33:27] correspondent Jesse Kirsch. Jesse, we're looking at those pictures at this hearing right now. [33:31] What are we learning? Yeah, so what we're seeing right now is the judge go down the line, [33:37] a laundry list, if you will, of different motions from both the defense and prosecution. And I'm [33:42] following along with our producer, Juliette Arcoteo, who's taking fantastic notes for us in the [33:46] courtroom. And what we're hearing from the feed from the court right now, and the judge just was [33:51] weighing in on the matter of whether or not the results of a polygraph examination can be a part [33:58] of this forthcoming trial. And the judge saying that she is ruling that the results of a polygraph [34:03] examination are not admissible, as well as the defendant's willingness or refusal to submit to [34:09] a polygraph. So I'm reading off of a rough transcript that's coming in right now. So we'll polish that off [34:13] as the day goes on. But that is the matter that was just handled in the courtroom right there. [34:18] But there's a long list of topics that could be covered today, Christine. Among them, the defense [34:24] asking to be able to test mystery male DNA that was found under Alec Murdoch's murdered wife's [34:32] fingernails and see if they can take that DNA sample and take it to an outside lab for testing. [34:40] The defense pointing to advancements in technology, including artificial intelligence that have come [34:45] forward since the original murder trial. And I should say, by the way, his killed wife's fingernails [34:51] because a reminder, he is no longer a convicted murderer. That conviction overturned, as you mentioned. [34:57] And so he is now facing the trial again. He has proclaimed his innocence throughout this process. [35:02] But regardless of how this plays out, Christine, this trial that's upcoming, he's not going anywhere, [35:08] so to speak, because he is still facing years behind bars because of financial crimes separate [35:15] from the murder charges that he now faces. And he is trying, his team at least, is trying to get this [35:21] retrial dismissed outright. What else is on the list of topics today? [35:27] Yeah. Another thing they're trying to talk about potentially is getting the trial moved to Charleston. [35:33] Right now they're in Lexington. That is near the state capital of Columbia. So the defense, [35:38] one of the things they want to do is get the trial moved to Charleston, a major city. So we will see [35:45] if the judge gets to that topic. Among others, she did indicate early on she's not going to rule [35:51] on everything that was on the list today, Christine. [35:53] All right, Jesse Kirsch. Thanks so much, Jesse. All right. How current are you on the week's news? [35:58] We'll quiz you throughout the show. Our first question this Friday. The U.S. just had its hottest [36:02] month on record. What was the nation's average temperature? The potential answers are there on [36:08] your screen. Scan the code if you want to get the quiz sent to your phone by downloading the NBC News [36:13] app. We'll share the answer later this hour. All right. After the break, the fallout in England [36:19] after controversial politician Nigel Farage wins a parliamentary election, defeating the man in the [36:24] can. Plus, the dramatic violent standoff in the West Bank with Israeli settlers attempting to force [36:30] Palestinian families from their homes. We'll get your current after this. In the Middle East, [36:39] renewed violence in the occupied West Bank this week. A group of Israeli settlers trapping [36:44] Palestinian families inside their homes, cutting them off from food, water and power. NBC News [36:50] international correspondent Matt Bradley was in the West Bank and spoke to some of those families. [36:55] Standoff in the West Bank. Security camera footage from Palestinian homes shows Israeli Jewish [37:01] settlers trapping two Palestinian families in these houses, using rocks to block Israeli military trucks [37:07] from reaching the site, and even fighting with Israeli soldiers and border guards sent to clear [37:12] them away. But this latest sighting of settler violence attracting global condemnation. U.S. [37:19] Ambassador to Israel Mike Huckabee, known for his pro-Israeli stance, called the settlers terrorists, [37:24] whose thuggish behavior should be punished. The IDF said today that it had dispersed the settlers, [37:30] but when we went, we found several were still there. You can see right now there are settlers running [37:35] right along in black, just below those homes that are now under siege. The settler siege, [37:43] depriving families inside of food, water and cutting off their electricity. All we have left is a little [37:50] bread, a little halawa, this cheese, a tomato, said the home's owner in a video asking for help. [37:55] Would you accept me coming into your home, living there and forcing you out, said the town's mayor. [38:00] We keep speaking out, but no one listens to us. No one tells our story to the world. [38:05] Kareem Hassan's children are in the houses. To keep watch on his daughter, he's sleeping here. [38:13] He says this has been his house since January of this year, his car. [38:18] Hours ago, he was told that soldiers took his daughter's phone. After an anxious wait, [38:23] he finally got through to her. [38:24] Are they harassing you, he asks? No, they aren't, she says of the soldiers, [38:30] but they told us not to go outside. The residents here say the soldiers haven't [38:34] been doing enough to protect them. They accused the military of working with the settlers to force [38:38] out the Palestinians. They point to a video earlier this week that showed IDF soldiers praying with the [38:43] settlers, inciting accusations of collusion. The IDF said disciplinary action would be taken [38:49] against the security personnel involved, but for the Palestinian families who live here, [38:55] discipline seems in short supply. Matt Bradley, NBC News. [39:00] All right, in the UK, a right-wing populist candidate, Nigel Farage, is the winner of a [39:05] special election for parliament. Farage triggered the race after stepping down from his seat last month. [39:11] He's facing scrutiny over his finances. No candidates from Britain's main political [39:15] parties ran against him, but there was one candidate who did make waves in the seaside town of Clacton, [39:21] Count Binface. The comedian is a popular figure in UK politics. He's run in a number of British [39:27] elections. He clinched 27% of yesterday's vote, a personal best for the self-described man in a can. [39:34] I've had over 9,000 votes, guys. Now, in Maker Field, eight weeks ago, I got 95 votes. So against [39:44] Nigel Farage, compared to Andy Burnham, I am 1,000 times more popular. [39:51] Joining us now, NBC News correspondent Danielle Hamamjan. Danielle, Farage really forced this [39:56] election. He's claiming a resounding victory that the people have spoken here. Break down the results [40:01] for us. Yes. 63% of the vote is what Nigel Farage got in the end. His victory is not all that [40:09] surprising. He called it overwhelming, convincing. But the fact that the major parties, Labour and [40:15] Conservative, didn't run a candidate kind of undermines, in the eyes of many, his win, but also [40:21] the framing of this election, which he said right off the bat was about the people versus the [40:26] establishment. And so a reminder of how he got here. He abruptly quit parliament once an investigation [40:33] into a $6.7 million gift was received that he did not declare. He said he did nothing wrong and he was [40:40] going to put it to the people. The people were going to judge. And so the main parties saw this as a [40:45] stunt. They boycotted it. But in the end, voters in the constituency yesterday had 34 names to vote from. [40:53] It was a very long ballot paper, the longest in history. You had very eccentric characters from [40:59] the monster raving loony party to count Binface, who, as you say, won 27% of the vote. That's 9,000 [41:07] people. He's an Oxford educated comedian who had said prior to the election day, listen, he knows that [41:14] Farage was likely to win, but he said morally here, the best Farage could say is that he beat a guy with [41:21] a garbage can over his head. Nigel Farage did not attend this morning's public count with all the [41:27] contenders sitting, standing next to him. This is what he had to say. Take a listen. [41:32] I regret to say, and by the way, I'm not scared of these people. Far from it. But I'm damned if I'm [41:39] going to stand on a stage having won a resounding victory, a ringing endorsement of all that I've tried [41:47] to fight for and you try to fight for and be demeaned and humiliated by nobody's. And I will [41:53] not, sadly, be attending the count. And that investigation is now back on now that Nigel [42:02] Farage, Christine, has been reelected. All right, Danielle Hammam, Jen, thank you so much for that. [42:08] So how current are you? Earlier in our news quiz, we asked what was the nation's average temperature [42:13] last month during the hottest month on record in the U.S.? The answer, 76.9 degrees Fahrenheit. [42:20] A report from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration said July 2026 was not only the [42:25] warmest July, but also the warmest month in the agency's 132 years of record keeping. If this was [42:32] fun, you're going to want to download the NBC News app to get the full quiz sent to your phone on [42:36] Saturday morning. A good way to stay current and keep it fun. Right when we come back, we return to New [42:42] York federal court where we expect Luigi Mangione to plead guilty in his federal case. Our live [42:47] coverage continues after a short break. And good morning. I'm Christine Romans. At this hour, [42:57] we're following breaking news in a New York City courtroom. Accused CEO killer Luigi Mangione [43:03] expected to plead guilty in his federal case. All of it unfolding this morning in Manhattan federal [43:09] court. Mangione is accused of gunning down UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson on a New York [43:15] City street two years ago. He is charged with two federal counts, interstate stalking resulting [43:21] in death and stalking through use of interstate facilities resulting in death. The charges carry [43:26] a maximum penalty of life in prison. They are separate from the state allegations, which include [43:31] second degree murder and firearms crimes. NBC News has learned that several members of Brian Thompson's [43:37] family as well as executives from UnitedHealthcare are in attendance for this hearing. This will be the [43:43] first time any family members of Brian Thompson are in the same room with Mangione. His defense [43:48] attorneys, Mark and Karen Ignifolo, are at the defense table right now. Not clear if members of [43:54] Mangione's family, we do know that they are there in the courtroom. We'll see. We're going to have some [44:00] team coverage of just what's happening. They're not in the room at the hour, we're told. Now, [44:04] joining us now from outside the Manhattan federal district of the Manhattan federal courthouse, [44:09] NBC News correspondent Stephanie Goss. Also with us, my colleague NBC News Now anchor Joe Fryer, [44:14] NBC News legal analyst Angela Senadella, and former federal prosecutor and legal analyst Barrett Berger. [44:21] Okay, Stephanie, what new details do we have here this hour? [44:24] Ma'am, thank you. [44:26] Well, as you mentioned, you know, the family and the executives are going to be in the courtroom. We saw [44:30] them enter through a side door. We have not heard from executives or the family since the immediate [44:37] hours after the Brian Thompson's murder. His wife actually spoke, but we haven't heard from them [44:42] since. And part of the federal process, if there is a plea deal, the family of the victim in this [44:48] case is allowed to be part of it, or at least to stand up and say something about it. So we could [44:53] actually hear from them. Who are we also going to hear from in the court today? Obviously the judge, [44:58] and this is not a plea deal until the judge accepts it. And the judge is also going to ask [45:03] Luigi Mangione a series of questions on what he understands this plea deal to be. And we do not [45:08] know at this point what the parameters of the deal are or what he is going to agree as part of it. [45:14] There are two guilty, I mean, my apologies, two charges for stalking that led to death. So that [45:20] is what's at issue right now. And then the judge is going to ask him to explain what happened in his [45:26] own words. Beyond that, that means that there is no federal trial, but it raises huge questions on [45:31] whether or not there is going to be a state trial, which is scheduled to begin on September 8th. And [45:36] at a bare minimum, that trial will likely move down the road. And it is possible because of issues of [45:42] double jeopardy that that trial doesn't happen at all. And that could be at the heart of what the [45:47] defense's strategy is here with this plea deal, Christine. So do we have any information yet to [45:52] which federal charges Mangione could be pleading guilty to? We're still waiting to find out what [45:57] exactly this whole plea is about. Yeah, exactly. We need to know what they agreed to. We need to [46:05] know what was offered on both sides. You know, there are a number of questions. Why would federal [46:09] prosecutors pursue this? What do they get out of a plea deal? It certainly does seem that there's an [46:15] abundance of evidence in this case. And it could be twofold, really. One, they might have some doubts [46:21] about the jury. I mean, this is one of the most publicized crimes in the history of this country. [46:25] And there are a lot of people who have very strong feelings about the health care industry. And there [46:29] might be a variable that they don't want to deal with. The other possibility, they don't want a [46:34] lengthy appeals process. If there is a plea deal, there likely will be an agreement that there will [46:39] be no appeals. So that would effectively end the federal side of this case entirely, Christine. [46:47] Okay, let me go to you, Barrett. How risky of a move is all of this for the prosecution to, [46:51] if they were to actually plead guilty to these stalking charges in the hopes that there's double [46:56] jeopardy against the state case? So I agree with everything she just said about why the federal [47:02] prosecutors would potentially agree to some sort of a plea here. Anytime you try to take a case to [47:08] trial, 12 people can disagree, particularly in a case like this that raised really strong emotions. [47:15] So if you have the chance of a defendant who's going to take a plea to the top count, [47:19] and you know that you can secure a significant sentence, it's almost foolish as a federal [47:24] prosecutor not to do that. Here, though, it is a significant departure. This was an office that [47:29] came in very hard charging. If you remember, they had additional counts at first that would have [47:33] carried the death penalty. Those counts were ultimately dismissed. But so, you know, agreeing to [47:38] a plea on the stalking charges is a pretty far departure from what was initially charged. All that being said, [47:44] with this judge in particular, even if Mangione does plead guilty and gets whatever leniency he gets [47:50] for accepting responsibility, I do not see him getting any sort of a sweetheart deal here. He is [47:55] still facing an incredibly long time in prison, possibly up to a life sentence, and I don't think [48:01] he'll be getting a significant break. I mean, if you had to game it out, how likely is it that his lawyers [48:06] would be able to dismiss some or all of the charges in the state case by pleading guilty here? [48:10] Yeah. So this really resurrects their argument that he is facing double jeopardy. If he is convicted by [48:18] means of a guilty plea in the federal case, it is absolutely not a given that the state charges would [48:22] go forward. New York's double jeopardy law is a lot more favorable to defendants than it is on the [48:28] federal side. So that's why many experts had said, you know, having the state trial go first really [48:33] made sense because there would be no bar then for the federal case following it. But if the federal case [48:38] is resolved, he has at least a good faith argument to make in front of the state court judge that these [48:44] state charges are now exactly the same criminal act or transaction that he pled guilty to in the [48:49] federal case and that he shouldn't go. So, you know, I don't think it's 100 percent likely, but he [48:54] certainly has a better argument than he does now. Joe, let's bring you in here. Word of a possible [48:59] plea deal started circulating maybe a couple of weeks ago, but those talks reportedly fell apart. [49:03] Kind of stunning how quickly this has all come together. Yeah. And actually, [49:06] we can kind of look at the images that are inside the courtroom. Now our team's in there. They tell [49:10] us the defense team is back in the courtroom. They had arrived. They had gone to meet with [49:14] Mangione in a private cell outside of the courtroom. They're now back in. The defense team is talking [49:19] with prosecutors. They're shaking hands. Our team basically says that this adversarial relationship [49:24] up till now seems to have melted away. So that might be a sign of what we're about to see once this [49:29] hearing gets underway. It was our colleagues at NBC New York who in June started reporting that there were [49:33] some sort of talks underway between federal prosecutors and Mangione's team. At one point, [49:38] a deal did seem close in June. Then that seemed to go away. Obviously, either talks went away and [49:43] picked up later or just continued. It's maybe not surprising now that we've gotten to this point [49:47] with the state trial so close. If Mangione's attorneys wanted to use this argument that, [49:53] hey, we have a federal plea deal now because of double jeopardy, the state case needs to go away. [49:58] They really needed to move now. You have to wonder, and we keep asking this question, [50:02] why would federal prosecutors want this? Both Steph and Barrett laid out some of the arguments here. [50:07] It is important to look at the context of this case. The state was involved with it. [50:10] Then suddenly federal prosecutors came in. A lot of people questioned that. There were initially [50:14] four counts here. And one of those counts, the one of murder through use of a firearm, [50:19] that was the one that carried the potential for a death penalty. Once the judge earlier this year [50:25] dismissed that charge, then the death penalty was totally off the table. A lot of people said, [50:30] well, maybe why do federal prosecutors need to be involved here? If this case gets settled up here [50:34] in the next few days, here's the way to see what happens with the state case. [50:38] Angela, let's reframe the best and worst possible scenarios from the Mangione perspective here. [50:44] So look, there is a worst case scenario here where there's no actual plea deal, but he's just going [50:49] to plead guilty, in which case the sentencing would not necessarily be reduced. It would just be up to [50:55] the judge. So I'm not sure if we know yet whether or not a plea deal has been reached or if just he's [51:00] going to have this open plea of guilt in the court. Now, the reason why he would be doing that, [51:05] though, is because, as we've discussed, this state trial is upcoming. It is supposed to start [51:09] September 8th. But only if this is resolved. And note, his defense attorneys actually tried to [51:15] resolve this double jeopardy issue earlier. But the state judge said this cannot be addressed [51:20] until the federal case is resolved. So it could be that he is still just doing this guilty plea [51:24] without even having a deal in order to move forward with the straight trial, because the state trial [51:29] is that murder charge. So the worst case scenario, he admits everything openly in court that's used [51:34] against him at the state trial. He gets no reduction in sentence, and he just gets double sentences from [51:38] both. Let's go back to the courthouse, because Stephanie Goss is there, and she has got some information for us [51:43] about the family of Brian Thompson there in the courthouse discussing the case with U.S. attorneys. [51:49] What's happening? Yeah, that's right, Christine. So we've learned that Brian Thompson's mother, [51:55] Pat Thompson, is among the family members who are in court. We know that they've been conferring [52:00] with the U.S. attorney. There would have been a lot of coordination between the family and the U.S. [52:04] attorney. In federal court, the family is allowed to be a part and is required to be a part of this [52:10] process, how they feel about a plea deal. They can interject and contribute to that negotiation. [52:17] We don't know exactly what the U.S. attorney was saying, but they were conferring with each other, [52:22] most likely discussing how things are going to play out once Luigi Mangione makes his way into the [52:28] courtroom, Christine. Can you give us a little sense, Steph, about who is arriving there? I mean, [52:33] these Mangione appearances in the past have had a flavor of spectacle sometimes with actual fandom in [52:42] some cases. What are you seeing there? Most definitely, Christine. That's a good way of [52:48] putting it. You know, there are people that some of them have been here since last night to be in [52:52] place so they could get a seat in this hearing. And we have seen that every time there's a hearing, [52:58] every time, whether it's in state court or federal court, we see some of his supporters. They call [53:03] themselves the Mangionistas, and they have been coming to show their support for Luigi Mangione. [53:09] He also, as you know, has a legal fund that was started even before he was named as a possible [53:18] killer in this case. And that fund has now raised more than $1.5 million. And so that has created this [53:25] atmosphere outside of court where we see oftentimes the same faces. And those people lined up spending a [53:32] lot of time here waiting to get in for this moment that could be so pivotal, completely changing the [53:38] judicial process for this case. What happens here today in this courtroom? Joe, this case from the [53:43] very beginning has gotten so much attention. And his attorneys have actually asked, Mangione's [53:48] attorneys have asked for the state trial to be televised. How's all that going to work? [53:52] It kind of builds a little bit off what Steph was saying there, too, this sort of groundswell of [53:56] support for Mangione. I mean, I should note, she didn't mention here, one of the people in line [54:00] today was seen deboning a fish while waiting in line. So it does certainly draw a number of [54:05] characters there. So Mangione's attorneys had actually been arguing in court this should be [54:08] live-streamed and televised. We should note, in New York criminal court, those proceedings just [54:12] generally are not televised. That's the way the state law is here. Obviously, federal court not [54:16] televised either. That's why we're not seeing anything come out of there today. Mangione's attorneys [54:20] were basically arguing for the televised trial. They were referring to what they called the court's [54:24] secret process. They say it grants access to only 68 journalists, saying it doesn't represent the [54:29] scores of independent journalists who have an interest in covering these proceedings. Obviously, [54:34] those independent journalists have fueled some of the port that we've seen from Mangione over the [54:38] years. Prosecutors basically shot back against this. They called that essentially a baseless [54:43] accusation. They said this can spread information. It can delegitimize the proceedings. In the end, [54:48] the judge did say there will be an overflow room in this state trial. So that means more people can get [54:54] in. They will have a live stream within the courthouse to see what's going on. But this is not going to be [54:59] live streamed at the state level if this state trial does move forward. Angela, let's go back [55:03] and remind our viewers about the charges here. Two federal charges, stalking charges. And then the [55:08] charges in the state case, eight felony charges there. And that's where there's this count of [55:14] second degree murder. And there had been reports that members of his, of Brian Thompson's family [55:19] wanted a murder conviction here. Walk us through the differences of these two charges. Yeah. So first, [55:24] his defense attorneys were able to get the strongest charge on both sides dismissed, [55:29] right? So the murder charge federally gone. So the murder charge only still stands at the state level. [55:34] Now, not only is there murder, there's also small charges as well of criminal possession of a fireworm [55:39] and also criminal possession of other items that are felony. But so the biggest issue there obviously [55:47] is murder. But at the state, at the federal level, it's just stalking because they were able to get the [55:52] murder charge dismissed. And he had pleaded not guilty to all those federal charges. And that's [55:56] where we are here right now, where we're expecting a guilty. Please stay with us, everybody. I want to [56:00] bring in former Superior Court judge and U.S. Attorney Carol Lamb. From a judge's perspective, [56:05] what would you want to hear from the defense today? Yeah, well, what I would expect the judge [56:12] will want to hear is some sort of, well, of course, the defendant has to admit the elements of the [56:18] crime. But for sentencing purposes and for decisions, legal decisions about how this case [56:24] is going to proceed in the future, I would imagine that the judge wants to hear why the defendant is [56:28] pleading guilty in this case. And it doesn't surprise me that the federal government wanted this case [56:35] to be resolved before the state case. But look at the big picture. What could potentially happen here [56:42] is that at the end of the day, this defendant will walk away with two stalking charges as a conviction. [56:50] He may do a long time in prison, but it is potentially true that he would never actually [56:55] be convicted of murder, which is actually what he did. Because as your other commentators have [57:02] pointed out, the New York state laws are quite favorable to the defendant in these double jeopardy [57:08] motions. So I think that's what the family is thinking, is that why isn't he answering for the [57:14] actual crimes that he committed? I mean, as a judge, how would you approach the double jeopardy [57:20] concern after this? I mean, this must be in the atmosphere for everything that's happening here today. [57:25] Yeah, well, it's a strictly legal issue. And there's going to have to be a lot of parsing about what [57:30] actually the charges are in the stalking and what he actually admits to. Because this isn't a slam [57:37] dunk federal case on stalking. You know, stalking federally requires some sort of anticipation by [57:42] the victim, that some sort of fear on their part. And in this case, it appears that Mangione simply [57:51] shot the victim in the back. I mean, there was no actual fear leading up to it. So it's not a slam [57:57] dunk federal case, which is probably why they're willing to take the plea in it. So it's not really a [58:04] question for the federal judge to decide what's going to happen with the state court. The state [58:08] court, it is a state court judge who's going to have to look very carefully at the charges that were [58:13] alleged and the facts that were admitted by the defendant to decide whether or not he's guilty of these [58:20] crimes. You know, what I really don't like to see in these kinds of cases is a lack of cooperation [58:25] between the federal and the state prosecutors. That makes everything a little bit fraught and a little [58:29] bit messy. And unfortunately, I think that's what we have here. And there had been some time, [58:34] your honor, where they had been each each team had been operating as if theirs was the only [58:40] set of charges here. And that has led us to where we are today. You also have experience as a federal [58:45] prosecutor. What do you think the prosecution strategy is today? You know, I think that the [58:49] prosecution strategy should be to get, quote, the best deal they can. So in other words, [58:55] they should be giving up as little as possible and they should be getting as much as possible. [59:00] So I hope the situation is not simply that they've given away the store, so to speak, and agreed to a [59:09] lower sentence, lower than he deserves. That would be a surprise to me. But it's possible that they're [59:17] taking that position simply because they are concerned about the legal arguments here on the [59:22] stalking. Again, what I don't like to see is a situation where they've sort of pulled the rug out from [59:29] the state case so that they can kind of come out and claim victory in a way that is going to [59:38] jeopardize the prosecutions. And I say that in the plural, the prosecutions as a whole. That's what [59:44] we're going to have to listen for this morning. Very good analysis. Stay with us. Everyone stay [59:48] with us. I want to go back to the courthouse where Stephanie Gosk is there. And we're told [59:53] Luigi Mangione is now in the courtroom. What are you seeing and hearing? What's our reporting? [1:00:01] Yeah, Christine, Luigi Mangione making his appearance a little bit late in the courtroom. [1:00:05] He's wearing tan prison scrubs and he's shackled, unlike how we've been seeing him in the state court [1:00:10] where he showed up in a suit and didn't look like he had just come out of prison. This is a very [1:00:16] different scene here. Also, keep in mind, you have Brian Thompson's family, including his mother, [1:00:21] in this courtroom right now. And this is the first time they are coming face to face with the man who [1:00:26] allegedly killed Brian Thompson. And what we're being told right now in court is people are shaking [1:00:32] their heads, that they have the looks of perhaps anger on their faces. You can't, it's hard to [1:00:38] imagine what must be running through their minds as this all plays out here today and how intense it [1:00:43] must be, Christine. All right, Steph, we'll continue to let you monitor what's happening there. And as [1:00:48] Steph said, this is the first time Brian Thompson's family have been in the same room as the man [1:00:53] accused of killing their son. Although the federal charges are not an accusation necessarily point [1:00:58] blank, Joe, of killing their son, but of stalking their son and leading to his demise. Remind me [1:01:04] about Brian Thompson, the CEO of UnitedHealthcare, an Iowa kid from humble beginnings who rose to the [1:01:12] top of corporate America. Yeah, he grew up in the same state that you grew up in, in Iowa. He went to [1:01:16] the University of Iowa. He eventually made his way to my home state, Minnesota, where he worked as a [1:01:20] CPA for some time for an accounting firm. It was 2004, 20 years before his death that he started [1:01:25] working for UnitedHealthcare, held a number of positions there, was eventually elevated to the [1:01:29] position of CEO, reaching that position in 2021, about three years before he was murdered. He was [1:01:36] known as a guy, and I thought the New York Times interviewed someone who knew him well, who said he [1:01:40] was the smartest guy in the room without being annoying. So that was kind of the way he was described. [1:01:45] People who knew him called him BT. He was described as humble. He was described as a hard worker. [1:01:50] He was an amateur wrestler, like a lot of people from Iowa and Minnesota. And he was known for even [1:01:56] challenging colleagues to arm wrestling, according to some of the profiles about him. So clearly a [1:02:01] beloved man. He had two young boys, and they all lived in Minnesota for quite a period of time, [1:02:07] which is, of course, where UnitedHealthcare is based. Yeah, of course. Let's go back to Stephanie. [1:02:10] She is there following all the developments. And what's happening now? We know this was all [1:02:15] supposed to start at 11, a little bit behind schedule, but the judge has entered the courtroom. [1:02:19] That's right, Christine. The judge entered, asked everyone to rise, as is always the case in a [1:02:25] courtroom, and the hearing is about to begin. And what can we start to look for? So the judge [1:02:28] is going to start asking questions about this plea deal and is going to ask Luigi personally, [1:02:33] if he agrees to a plea deal, they're going to talk about the parameters of that deal. There are going to [1:02:38] be questions on whether he understands what the process is going to be. And remember, [1:02:41] we don't know what the parameters of this deal are going to be. So we don't know if he is going to [1:02:47] plead guilty to both charges, one charge, or maybe something slightly different. So we will be waiting [1:02:52] to hear. And the judge will then ask Luigi Mangione, in his own words, to describe what it is that he did. [1:02:59] And keep in mind, he is going to be, in his own words, talking about this alleged crime with Brian [1:03:05] Thompson's family, listening to him in the courtroom. That drama is going to unfold. We also [1:03:11] might hear how the family feels about this plea deal. They are allowed, as part of the federal process, [1:03:16] to be a part of it. And we've already seen the U.S. attorney talking to the family, probably [1:03:22] explaining what was going to happen over the course of this hearing. But it is happening right now as we [1:03:26] speak, Christine. Stand by. Let's go back to Barrett Berger. From the perspective of the [1:03:32] prosecution, what's their thinking? What's happening right now? Yeah. So in many ways, [1:03:38] this will proceed if, in fact, this is a guilty plea. In many ways, this will proceed just like [1:03:42] every other case does. By the time that they've reached the plea stage, the prosecutor's sort of [1:03:48] hard work is kind of done. They'll explain to the judge the parameters of any agreement, [1:03:53] if there is, in fact, an agreement. They'll also have to put forth on the record what the elements are. [1:03:58] How they think that this agreement satisfies the element. They may have to put forth what they [1:04:03] think the anticipated guideline range is. And that means what the potential sentence could be. [1:04:09] All right. Let's go to Stephanie Goss now. Steph, what do you got? [1:04:14] Yeah. So what we are now learning is that the judge asked Luigi Mangione, [1:04:21] are you prepared to plead guilty to counts one and two of the indictments? So those are the two counts. [1:04:27] Mangione said yes. So right now we have confirmation from Luigi Mangione that this is a plea deal. [1:04:33] And he has agreed to plead guilty to both of those stalking charges leading to death. [1:04:39] Good morning. We are coming on the air with a major update in the case of accused CEO killer Luigi [1:04:46] Mangione. Mangione in a federal courtroom right now for a high stakes hearing where he has just informed [1:04:53] a federal court judge that he will, in fact, plead guilty to two counts. He was charged with two counts [1:04:59] of stalking related to a death back in 2024. He is in court right now. The judge asking him a series [1:05:06] of questions, asking him, are you prepared to plead guilty to counts one and counts two of the [1:05:11] indictment? Mangione answering yes. We should mention there are no cameras in federal courtroom. [1:05:17] And so we are relying on our team of reporters who are found out all in downtown Manhattan. And so we are [1:05:23] reading from notes that are being transcribed from our team there. The judge saying, [1:05:27] I'm going to ask you some questions. It's essential that I'm comfortable. The judge required here to [1:05:32] make sure that this plea is knowing and voluntary and that Mangione understands the gravity of what [1:05:38] he is, in fact, pleading guilty to right now. Mangione was facing those federal stalking charges, [1:05:43] as I mentioned, in connection with the killing of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson back of 2024. [1:05:49] Today's development happening in federal court. But this is also happening just weeks before the [1:05:54] state trial against Mangione was supposed to begin here in New York. That trial supposed to begin [1:05:59] on September 8th. In that case, it's a state case, different charges, a whole set of different legal [1:06:05] ramifications, which we are going to unpack for you all throughout this morning. I'm going to bring [1:06:09] in here NBC News legal analyst Misty Maris, who has been following this case and following along with us [1:06:15] as we're unpacking the notes here. We had wondered what, in fact, would happen. We had seen potential [1:06:22] talks collapse before in this case. But in fact, he is informing the judge that he will now, in fact, [1:06:27] plead guilty today. Yeah. And what's really interesting, Laura, is that the judge had asked, [1:06:32] will you be pleading guilty to the two counts in the indictment? So there's been a lot of conjecture. [1:06:36] What could a plea deal look like? Would prosecutors offer something, maybe some sort of lesser charge? [1:06:41] That does not appear to be the case. Not surprising, given the severity of this case. But this means [1:06:47] that he's pleading guilty to these federal stalking charges, which potentially carry a life sentence. [1:06:52] Now, what we're seeing unfold in the courtroom, and again, we're via our notes. I wish we could [1:06:56] watch it in person. But watching it unfold, this is going through the typical plea hearing process. [1:07:01] The judge has asked, are you prepared to plead guilty to the indictment? Then you have the defendant [1:07:06] talking about his mental state. Is there anything that has made it so he cannot competently enter [1:07:12] into this plea deal today, asking a whole bunch of questions about whether or not he has taken any [1:07:18] substances? This is to ensure that he's coming in. He's voluntary of clear mind. This is all on the [1:07:22] record. She'll be asking, did he have time to confer with his counsel? The next step will be going [1:07:29] through the charges, the penalties. Then we will get to the meat, Laura. It will be the plea agreement. [1:07:35] What has been agreed to between the prosecution and the defense? Now, what to listen for and watch [1:07:41] for as this unfolds? There's going to be a factual basis for the plea. And when the judge says at the [1:07:47] outset of this, as we see that Luigi Mangione intends to plead guilty, she's going to have questions. [1:07:53] She's going to have to be satisfied. That factual basis means Luigi Mangione will have to admit to [1:07:59] certain facts that fulfill all of the elements of a stalking charge, that fulfill the elements [1:08:06] of the crime. And the judge is going to probe into that to make sure that what ends up on that record [1:08:12] is sufficient for the plea. So just because the prosecution and the defense have agreed upon [1:08:17] something, it still has to be approved by the judge in this case. So this judge is actively going to be [1:08:25] involved in asking some questions about it. Which would be a huge moment in any case. But in this [1:08:29] case in particular, this is somebody whose attorneys have been aggressive, who have been zealous advocates [1:08:35] time and again, saying that their client has done nothing wrong, saying that he is not guilty, that they [1:08:42] are going to fight this tooth and nail. They've talked about why he shouldn't be prosecuted in all these [1:08:46] jurisdictions. And yet in court today, he is rising as the judge is asking him a series of questions, [1:08:52] saying, have your attorneys explained the guilty plea? Mangione saying yes. Asking him, as you [1:08:58] mentioned, satisfied with your attorneys, making sure that he's getting proficient counsel. Mangione [1:09:02] saying yes. Asking him, understanding that the constitution and the laws, you have a right to plead [1:09:08] not guilty. Do you understand? Mangione saying yes. Again, that you would not have to prove your [1:09:14] innocence. That's the prosecution's burden. Mangione saying yes. All of these sort of series, [1:09:19] the colloquy with the judge, all there to tease out, to make sure you understand what you're doing. [1:09:25] Exactly. One of the most important things is going to be, after all this is said and done, [1:09:29] he doesn't get to say, take back. He doesn't get to say, ah, you know what? I was having second [1:09:34] thoughts. That's why they have to go through this in such level of a detail. Absolutely. And that's why [1:09:38] you're seeing this unfold. All of these constitutional rights that Luigi Mangione has as a defendant [1:09:44] in the criminal justice system, he is waiving them. And the judge is going through one by one [1:09:49] so that he understands what he is doing and what he is waiving moving forward. There will be a section [1:09:54] where they'll talk about, well, you can't appeal this moving forward. You understand that you're [1:09:57] waiving those rights. And to your point, Laura, they don't want any wiggle room here. They don't [1:10:02] want it to be that something was left outside in that courtroom, left out in that record that can [1:10:08] support this determination if Luigi Mangione has buyer's regret one day. All of it will be in this [1:10:14] court record. The judge meticulously going through all of these inquiries. And this part of the colloquy [1:10:19] is really, really important regarding those constitutional rights. This is a part where [1:10:24] it is made clear that you will be admitting guilt. The prosecutors will no longer have the burden to [1:10:30] prove this. Again, a first. We never, ever, ever heard him do anything close to that. And not only is [1:10:34] he doing it, he's doing it in open court in front of the victim's family, in front of [1:10:39] Brian Thompson's family and colleagues. Yes. And we saw some of the color from the, [1:10:45] from what we heard in the courtroom is that when he walked in, the family looked visibly upset when [1:10:50] Luigi Mangione walked into the room. What was going to happen as this hearing unfolds, as this plea [1:10:58] hearing unfolds, there's going to be a summary of this agreement. And this is something I really want to [1:11:02] be paying attention to. Yeah. The language in this agreement. What do we have here? Now we know [1:11:08] that Luigi Mangione is pleading guilty to the charges as they stand in the indictment. Because [1:11:13] that is new information. Because he could have pled to something else. Just because he was charged with [1:11:16] stalking, resulting in death, doesn't mean that that's what he would have had to agree to. But so [1:11:21] the fact that he's actually pleading to the thing he was indicted for is a big deal. Yes, [1:11:25] he's pleading guilty to the top charges. So a lot of times when you see a plea agreement, [1:11:30] there's some kind of bargaining going on between the defense and the prosecution. [1:11:34] The defense is saying, well, we will plead guilty. And it's all about penalty at the end of the day, [1:11:39] right? It's all about what will the penalty be? We'll plead guilty to something lesser than these [1:11:43] top charges. And you prosecutors will get the benefit of not having to go through the trial, [1:11:48] trials unpredictable, all of that. Here, that is not the case. So we are seeing a guilty plea to the [1:11:54] actual charges, the top level charges that Luigi Mangione faces. So there had been a question mark [1:12:00] about what that would look like. He's pleading guilty to these top charges. Those could potentially [1:12:04] carry a life sentence. Doesn't look like, at least from where we see right now this unfolding, [1:12:10] it doesn't look like there's anything to indicate that there's lesser charges that are even at play. [1:12:14] That's out the window now. These are the top level charges that he's pleading guilty to. [1:12:17] Again, top level charges. We say it's stalking, but it is stalking resulting in death. It is a [1:12:23] federal charge that is quite serious that carries up to life in prison. So this is no small thing. [1:12:28] No small thing at all. So what I'm going to be listening for, and I'm curious about this as we [1:12:34] get into now kind of the nuts and bolts here, the parties are announcing their appearances, [1:12:39] which means we're going to be getting into some of the meat of what this plea agreement looks like. [1:12:44] Okay. So now we know he's pleading guilty to the charges that he faces, top level charges, [1:12:49] no haircut there or anything. So that's what is going to be the actual plea that he will enter [1:12:56] to those charges. Will there be something in that plea agreement that says prosecutors will [1:13:01] make recommendations that will help him at sentencing, maybe agree to certain mitigating [1:13:06] factors, maybe agreeing to making some kind of recommendation that would make this something [1:13:11] less than life, which I think is probably the best that he could do under these particular [1:13:16] circumstances from a defense perspective. Because when people hear plea deal, I think [1:13:20] some people think tit for tat, right? I got something, you got something. As if we're reading [1:13:24] this right now, it appears prosecutors got exactly what they wanted, which is they're getting him to [1:13:30] plead guilty in open court to the very same charges that they indicted him for. We don't yet know, [1:13:34] though, what is he getting right from this side of the bargain? What is he getting from this deal [1:13:39] that he wouldn't have gotten otherwise? Because as of right now, in his, again, exchange with the [1:13:43] judge here, the judge is saying, you give up your right to appeal. There will be no trial. I will [1:13:48] sentence you after the pre-sentence report, which is something that probation puts together. It makes [1:13:52] a series of recommendations. That's not going to happen today. But the judge, again, she's clarifying, [1:13:57] there will be no appeal. Do you understand that? And he's saying yes. Yes, he's saying yes. He agrees [1:14:03] to, and he agrees that he understands all of the constitutional rights that he is waiving. And this [1:14:10] is really, really important. And again, Laura, that's why you have such an extensive back and [1:14:16] forth with the judge in these cases to ensure that somebody who is waiving their rights to appeal, [1:14:22] waiving constitutional rights as a criminal defendant, they know what they're doing. They've had the [1:14:27] opportunity to speak to their counsel about it. They understand what this actually means. And that's [1:14:33] why this part of the hearing, it seems procedural. It's incredibly important. [1:14:37] Well, because we have actually seen things in past high-profile cases in this moment [1:14:41] actually break down, right? So it seems sort of pro forma, like she's going through all these. [1:14:45] He's saying yes. There have been times in cases you and I have covered where the judge is pressing [1:14:50] them and it turns out like, oh, actually, I didn't quite understand what I was giving up. And so [1:14:55] it actually is necessary to go through all of this, even if it seems sort of rote. [1:14:59] You're absolutely correct. And that's such an important point. And all of this goes into the [1:15:04] record. And the judge, ultimately, who's going to make that determination, the judge doesn't just [1:15:09] have to be satisfied with what the party's prosecution and defense agreed to with respect [1:15:16] to all of the aspects of a plea agreement. The judge also has to be satisfied that this defendant [1:15:22] is knowingly and voluntarily entering into that deal. And that's why you see [1:15:27] such an intensive back and forth on all of these issues. [1:15:29] Yeah. I want to bring in here, into the discussion, NBC's senior national correspondent, [1:15:34] Stephanie Goss, who has been following this case from the very beginning. Stephanie, [1:15:38] I remember those days during the manhunt where you were posted outside Altoona, Pennsylvania. [1:15:43] You know this case as well as any of us. Talk to me about the scene that is outside of court right now. [1:15:49] Mangione has garnered an enormous amount of support since this case first happened. What do you see in [1:15:54] outside court? Yeah, it has been pretty amazing and no less so today. And there were people, [1:16:01] Laura, who were lined up late at night to get a seat in this courtroom today. They used the courtroom and [1:16:06] the largest courtroom in this federal courthouse to fit everyone. We saw Brian Thompson's family [1:16:12] be escorted into the courtroom through a side door, including his mother. We know that there are also [1:16:17] UnitedHealthcare executives in that courtroom. Obviously, you have the federal prosecutors [1:16:22] and the defense team. And then Luigi Mangione was brought in. He was shackled. He was wearing tan [1:16:28] prison clothes. Now, during the state case, he has been showing up in a suit. He was striking a very [1:16:33] different figure and is striking a very different figure in court today. And this is the first time, mind [1:16:38] you, that Brian Thompson's family has been in the same room face to face with who we now know is the [1:16:45] killer of Brian Thompson, because he has admitted to be involved in the death of Brian Thompson by [1:16:51] admitting to these charges. What also has happened today, you are seeing the roadmap towards a federal [1:16:57] and state trial in these cases be totally blown up. We were expecting a state trial September 8th, [1:17:04] a federal trial in January. And now for certain, the federal trial will not be taking place. But there [1:17:10] are real questions now on whether the state trial will happen. At a bare minimum, you have to imagine [1:17:15] that that September 8th date is going to slide down the road. And there's a very good chance because [1:17:20] of double jeopardy law in the state of New York, which is quite robust and in favor of the defendant, [1:17:28] that there could be no state trial at all. In other words, Luigi Mangione, the man who killed Brian [1:17:33] Thompson brazenly in Midtown Manhattan in December 2024 will not actually stand trial for that crime. [1:17:42] Stephanie, as you mentioned, the family is in the courtroom, colleagues of Brian Thompson [1:17:47] are in the courtroom. This is really the first opportunity that I can think of where they have had [1:17:53] a direct confrontation, obviously not talking face to face, but being in the room while he is pleading [1:18:01] guilty to these crimes. This is a remarkable moment for this family. [1:18:07] Yeah, it's really hard to imagine and you can't and impossible to put yourself in the shoes of his [1:18:13] family, his mother sitting there watching Luigi Mangione stand up and say, yes, I am responsible [1:18:19] for this death. We also really haven't heard from the executives of UnitedHealthcare and his family [1:18:25] members since the immediate days after Brian Thompson's murder. You did hear from his wife, [1:18:31] who said a few things, but other than that, they have been very silent along in this process. Now, [1:18:36] as part of the federal plea deal process, the family of the victim is allowed to be a part of [1:18:41] that process to interject and have an opinion in that process. You can see before this hearing even began, [1:18:48] the U.S. attorneys were conferring with the family, probably outlining what was going to happen over [1:18:52] the course of this hearing. They are very much involved and they're here today and it has to be [1:18:58] incredibly emotional and intense for them, Laura. Incredibly emotional. And under the laws, [1:19:03] Missy, they're actually required to be consulted about this. Now, they might object, they might say, [1:19:09] oh no, we actually want this to go to trial. The judge doesn't have to accept that, but the judge [1:19:14] does have to be giving them a reasonable opportunity to be heard. Yes. So the Crime Victims [1:19:18] Right Act says prosecutors have to let the family know that there's a plea, that they have to consult and [1:19:23] confer with the family. Reasonable opportunity to be heard. All of that is absolutely true. And so [1:19:28] the family would not be, you know, blindsided by something like this, which is why we see them in [1:19:33] the courtroom today. Something I think is really interesting going on in the courtroom, they're [1:19:36] talking about penalty. The judge is saying this could be up to life. And in federal court, if you [1:19:42] get life, there is no parole. That might not be the sentence. Also, if you have a state court case, [1:19:47] it could be consecutive, meaning the two sentences might not run at the same time. So really letting [1:19:51] Luigi Mangione know the import of, yes, the gravity and what the potential penalty could be. [1:19:57] Talk to me quickly about the state case. You heard Stephanie mention it. The state case was supposed [1:20:01] to happen on September 8th, just a few weeks from now. The timing of this really matters because now [1:20:07] that he is in fact pleaded guilty and he will have a conviction on his record in federal court. [1:20:12] Talk to me about the interplay and what he hopes that will do for him in the state case. [1:20:17] So this only works one way, Laura. Getting this federal case wrapped up, a plea, which is a [1:20:23] conviction, means that Luigi Mangione and his defense team can take advantage of the New York [1:20:29] state law on double jeopardy, which is way more expansive than its federal counterpart. So it only [1:20:34] works if the federal case is resolved first while the state court case is pending. What the law says [1:20:39] is that somebody cannot be prosecuted twice for a crime that is part of the same transaction or [1:20:45] occurrence. So the defense team is undoubtedly going to use this plea. Timing matters. It's before this [1:20:51] state case goes to trial to try and get the state case thrown out in its entirety. [1:20:56] You think we will see that today, even if we don't get the sentencing of Mangione today? [1:20:59] Yes. I think we will see a filing in state court that will say, [1:21:03] we got to put this trial on. Yes, because you know, state prosecutors are going to fight back on [1:21:08] that double jeopardy. So that's going to take a while to play out. I think we'll see a filing [1:21:12] immediately from the defense in that state case to say, we just pled guilty in the federal case. [1:21:16] We're going to have to deal with the double jeopardy issue. That's not going to be resolved. [1:21:19] And the judge doesn't want to seat a jury and go through a jury trial and have all of that happen [1:21:24] only to have it all fall apart because Mangione says, actually, no, you can't prosecute me in [1:21:28] the state case and then have an appeals court disagree with him. Right. And then not to mention, [1:21:32] double jeopardy is a fundamental right. So a question mark on that would give the judge incentive [1:21:38] to say, we'll push this back while that all plays out. Misty, appreciate your analysis as [1:21:42] always. So helpful. Steph, thanks to you too. That concludes this NBC news special report. [1:21:46] Our coverage continues on our streaming network, NBC news now online at NBC news.com [1:21:52] and a full wrap up of course, tonight on nightly news with Tom Yamas. I'm Laura Jarrett. [1:21:56] Thank you for watching. You've been watching an NBC news special report. Luigi Mangione preparing to plead [1:22:04] guilty in the federal case against him. Those charges on your screen, interstate stalking resulting [1:22:10] in death and stalking through use of interstate facilities resulting in death. The charges carry [1:22:16] a maximum penalty of life in prison. The question now, what happens next, both with his sentencing [1:22:22] and the state case with eight felony charges expected to begin next month. Joining us now is former [1:22:29] Superior Court Judge and U.S. Attorney Carol Lamb and our whole team here. We've let's go to talk [1:22:36] to what's going on here right now, Joe Ferrer. We're looking at our reporters in the room and our [1:22:41] producers in the room have been sending notes back and forth about what's actually happening inside [1:22:46] the room. And we've been following along. Yeah. A reminder, this is federal court cameras are not [1:22:50] allowed in court. So we have our team in there. They are able to access a Google document. So we're able [1:22:54] to watch as they're typing. And literally right now, Mangione is starting to speak according to our team [1:22:59] there. We don't know much about what's being said, but I can just tell you the first words we're [1:23:02] hearing out of his mouth after answering a series of questions, saying yes and no to various questions [1:23:07] after years of enduring severe pain with the back and witnessing the health care system. [1:23:13] On December 4th, I went to an investor conference specific location that was not publicly disclosed. [1:23:18] The judge interrupts. I can't hear you. And he continues to speak. We don't have any more than that right [1:23:22] now. But this is certainly going to be perhaps the most captivating part of this is actually hearing [1:23:26] Mangione say what happened as he prepares to lay out this guilty plea. Leading up to this moment, [1:23:32] the judge has been asking a series of questions over the course of several minutes. First, trying [1:23:36] to better understand sort of his state of mind and make sure that that he's in condition asking, [1:23:41] have you been treated for addiction, any drugs, alcohol or pills in the last two days? And Mangione said, [1:23:46] I took sleep medication. The judge following up to make sure, is your mind clear? Are you okay? [1:23:51] And the judge determining that he felt he was okay, that the defendant was fully competent [1:23:55] to enter the plea at this time. And then just making sure he understood what he was giving up [1:24:00] by entering this plea here, understanding that if there was a trial, he could object to certain [1:24:05] evidence that he would have the right to testify or not to testify. And a key moment that came down in [1:24:12] just the last few moments here, right before Mangione started to speak, was the judge saying, [1:24:16] I have this letter from your attorneys that was given to the prosecutor. He asked him if he'd seen it and [1:24:20] discussed it. The government's saying 292 to 365 months imprisonment is what's listed in that [1:24:28] letter. So that's 24 to 30 years here. Those are the government's guidelines. They're not binding. [1:24:34] Most importantly, they're not binding for me. And the judge is going to come up with the range [1:24:37] on what the sentence is for these charges saying, I may agree with them. I may not agree with them. [1:24:43] And he wanted to make sure Mangione understood. Has anyone made any promises to you? Mangione saying, [1:24:47] no, no one has made any promises to me about that. So we continue to hear Mangione speaking [1:24:52] about traveling to Manhattan, saying he had emailed UnitedHealthcare leadership, posing as an investor [1:24:58] with millions in assets, saying he received a response before traveling to New York. He used a [1:25:04] 3D printer to make this gun in silencer. Reminder, this was a ghost gun here. He emailed UnitedHealthcare with [1:25:10] the intent to shoot Brian Thompson on the morning of December 4th. He says, I shot Mr. Thompson in [1:25:17] Manhattan in the back. I understood my actions would place him in fear of death and bodily injury. [1:25:25] I knew what I was doing. And those are the last words we've heard so far. [1:25:28] Let's go back to the courthouse. Stephanie Gosk is there. She's been reporting on all of this. What's [1:25:32] happening now? What are the new details, Steph? Yeah, what's important here, Christine, [1:25:37] right now is that you have the prosecutors with this recommended sentencing. And you heard Joe just [1:25:42] say it 292 to 365 months. Well, on the upper end of that, that's 30 years. Luigi Mangione is 28. [1:25:49] That is not a life sentence. Now, in federal court, it is the judge in a plea deal that is going to [1:25:55] determine the sentencing. So it is going to be in her hands ultimately. And you heard her tell that [1:26:00] to Luigi Mangione. But it is also important to hear that the prosecutor's recommendation [1:26:05] is not life, which is an interesting twist in this. We had assumed all along they were going [1:26:10] for life. Remember, they were initially looking for a capital sentence. They were looking for the [1:26:15] death penalty in this case. That charge got thrown out. And now they're saying upwards of 30 years in [1:26:21] prison. So that is a very different tune for state. And one wonders what the family of Brian Thompson [1:26:26] thinks about that, because there's a state case where there are a whole bunch of charges, Steph, [1:26:30] for a state case, the trial that was supposed to begin, what, September 8th. And we don't know [1:26:36] what happens now with this guilty plea. Yeah, what we do know is that there's going to be a whole [1:26:43] other process now in state court. That September 8th start date for the trial is at a bare minimum [1:26:49] going to move down the road, most likely, because now they have to settle this issue of double jeopardy. [1:26:54] And that's going to be up to the state judge. And in the New York state, the protections for the [1:26:59] defendant are robust when it comes to double jeopardy. And it could mean that there ends up [1:27:05] being no state trial at all in this case. We just don't know how the judge is going to rule on that. [1:27:11] But because of the way the law is written, it is in Luigi Mangione's favor. And no doubt [1:27:18] that was part of his defense team's strategy, this plea deal in federal court, Christine. [1:27:24] All right, Steph, we'll let you continue to gather information and facts. Angela, [1:27:27] I want to bring in you in you here. So this really throws the state prosecution, [1:27:33] those eight federal those felonies for this on the state case up in the air. [1:27:39] Yeah, it's very possible. But I want to note that it's definitely not guaranteed. And I think [1:27:43] as we heard Joe's reporting, the fact that we heard Mangione say that he knew what he was doing [1:27:49] and that there was intent to kill, that is very important for the second degree murder charge [1:27:55] that is happening in state. So now the question of whether or not double jeopardy will apply [1:28:00] has to do with whether or not that same transaction really occurred. And the issue is the stalking [1:28:06] charges are really just about hunting, right? They're not actually about the killing, whereas [1:28:10] a murder charge is about the killing. Now, hearing him say in court or not hearing, but hearing the [1:28:15] reporting of it, that he is admitting to knowing that he did it and knowing that there was intent [1:28:20] is also dangerous for this murder charge. If indeed it does not get thrown out, does not get [1:28:26] tossed for double jeopardy reasons, he essentially has admitted that he did commit murder. So the [1:28:31] possibility there is still that he could be convicted for murder in state court. Let me bring in Barrett [1:28:36] Berger, former federal prosecutor and legal analyst. Barrett, when you've been listening to all of this [1:28:40] unfold here, Luigi Mangione saying that he is prepared to plead guilty to these two federal charges. [1:28:46] You've heard what we've heard from prosecutors about potential penalties, although that will come [1:28:51] later. What do you make of this? Yeah, I'm not surprised that he's essentially getting no break [1:28:58] with this plea. This is a U.S. attorney's office that I would have been shocked if they had given him [1:29:04] any kind of a sweetheart deal here. So he's essentially pleading to both of the top counts. He's [1:29:09] essentially pleading to the indictment here just with the plea agreement. So the federal prosecutors [1:29:14] are actually getting a huge benefit out of this. The first being they get the fact that he has waived [1:29:19] his right to an appeal. So even if they were able to convict him at trial, even if the evidence was as [1:29:24] strong as we all suspected it was, there's always a risk on appeal that there was some sort of deficiency [1:29:29] in your legal argument. Now they don't have to worry about that. This conviction will be solid. [1:29:33] They don't have to stress about that. And also they have the ability to secure a pretty significant [1:29:38] sentence. People may be surprised that it's not a life sentence. This is not necessarily the [1:29:43] prosecutor's choice. This is a range that's determined by the sentencing commission. [1:29:48] There's a book that lays out what the various guidelines are for each offense. [1:29:51] So it's a pretty mathematical calculation based on his criminal history and what the offense is. [1:29:57] Now, at the time, I'm going to have to cut you out there for just a second. [1:30:00] Our Stephanie Gask is at the courthouse with some more more information. We want to get to her live. [1:30:04] Hi, Steph. Hey, Christine. So critically, the judge just agreed to the plea deal. So that was what [1:30:11] we were waiting for. The judge has agreed to the free deal right before that was the other thing [1:30:16] that we've been talking about this morning. And that's the allocution where Luigi Mangione was asked [1:30:20] by the judge to explain what he did. And his description is chilling. I'm going to read a little bit [1:30:25] of it. This is from our producer who's in court transcribing it. He said this, Luigi Mangione said this. [1:30:31] In November, I traveled to Manhattan. I emailed UHC leadership, that's United Healthcare leadership, [1:30:37] posing as an investor with millions in assets. I received a response before traveling to New York. [1:30:43] He says he used a 3D printer to make a gun and silencer. He then emailed UHC back and he had the [1:30:50] intent. He told the judge of shooting Brian Thompson on the morning of December 4th, 2024. He says, [1:30:56] I shot Mr. Thompson in Manhattan in his back. Keep in mind, as Luigi Mangione is saying this, [1:31:03] Christine, Brian Thompson's family is in that courtroom listening to this chilling description. [1:31:10] I understand, according to Luigi Mangione, my actions would place him in a fear of death [1:31:14] and bodily injury. That's obviously very specific legal language that he is using. [1:31:20] I knew what I was doing was illegal. That is what the judge was listening to. That is what [1:31:25] could potentially be used in the state case, him outlining the crime itself, Christine. [1:31:33] And we're hearing, Steph, that sentencing has been set for Friday, December 18th at 11 a.m. [1:31:40] So this federal case clearly with some major, major movement here today. I want to bring in [1:31:47] NBC News senior legal correspondent Laura Jarrett and NBC News legal analyst Misty Marist. Laura, so [1:31:52] wow, just a lot of developments here today. So let's talk about what has just happened. And then let's [1:31:57] talk about what this means for what was supposed to happen on September 8th, which is a state [1:32:01] trial with eight felony charges, including second degree murder, which we're told the family wanted [1:32:06] to see a murder conviction here. This is an incredible moment. This is the first time [1:32:10] we have heard Luigi Mangione in his own words say anything at all, much less provide a robust [1:32:17] description of how he in his own words is saying he traveled to Manhattan. This is a level of [1:32:22] premeditation that we have never heard from Mangione before. Because again, until this day, [1:32:28] he has been pleading not guilty. He has maintained his innocence. His lawyers have been aggressive. [1:32:33] And yet all today, all of that has just changed. He's describing, Christine, not only how he traveled [1:32:38] to Manhattan, but how he's actually corresponding with executives at United Healthcare, posing as an [1:32:44] investor, creating a ghost gun, using a silencer. Again, all of these details are things we have heard [1:32:51] before, but yet they're really going to matter when it comes to the state case. Because in the state case, [1:32:56] he's not charged with stalking, Christine. He's charged with second degree murder and he's [1:33:00] charged with weapons charges. And so when he's talking about the weapons and how he made them [1:33:04] and how he's using them in the federal case, he's doing it for a reason. And he's doing it so that when [1:33:09] he runs over to state court, probably later today, he can say, see, it was all encompassing. That deal [1:33:15] in federal court, it was robust. It was all encompassing. So you cannot prosecute me for the same state crime. [1:33:21] And Misty, the judge has agreed to this plea deal. They have a sentencing date, Friday, December 18th. [1:33:27] Your thoughts here on the, I guess, the defense's strategy. I mean, defense has won kind of along the [1:33:33] way. They got some charges dropped and now they've got this guilty plea here in federal court that may [1:33:39] upend the state charges. Yeah. So they've really narrowed what the charges are. As you said, they got [1:33:44] the death penalty thrown out in federal court. They got the terrorism charges thrown out in state [1:33:48] court. So now they've pled guilty. And this is really strategic, Christine, because it only works [1:33:53] one way when it comes to the double jeopardy rules, because the New York law on double jeopardy [1:33:58] is the one that's more expansive. So the federal case being done now, we have a plea deal. That's [1:34:04] a conviction. Now they can, as Laura said, go to the state court and say, this is the same crime. [1:34:10] You cannot charge me twice. That has to be thrown out. Now, that's absolutely going to be a fight [1:34:15] between the defense and the prosecutors. But look what they've done. They've now, [1:34:21] they're pleading guilty. By the way, Luigi Mangione could still get a life sentence because [1:34:27] that's what the sentencing guidelines would allow. A sentence is ultimately up to the judge. And that [1:34:33] was very clear during this plea hearing that you understand the maximum penalty here is life without [1:34:39] the possibility of parole, correct? And he said, yes. So if they get the state charges thrown out, [1:34:43] though, now it's done. It's finality. They know what they're doing. There's a benefit [1:34:48] to potentially being in the federal system, maybe better conditions. When sentencing comes, [1:34:54] Luigi Mangione is going to be able to say, I took accountability. That will be a mitigating factor. [1:34:59] So there's definitely things that in order to his benefit. And let's not forget, [1:35:02] there's a ton of evidence in this case. So getting rid of the state case, that would be a win for the [1:35:07] defense. Ladies, stick with me. Stephanie Gask wants to get in. She's got some new information at the [1:35:10] courthouse. Hey, Steph. Hey, Christina. I just want to say that one of the things that really [1:35:15] stands out in his description of what happened in the lead up to this murder is him saying he posed [1:35:20] as an investor with millions in assets and that he was in touch with United Healthcare. And one of the [1:35:26] lingering questions about this crime generally was why Luigi Mangione knew or how he knew to be on the [1:35:33] street so early in the morning. Now, that investor conference was set to begin eight o'clock, [1:35:38] eight thirty nine, nine in the morning. Brian Thompson was making his way to that hotel [1:35:44] at around six a.m. And Luigi Mangione was there. And this illuminates to some degree how he knew [1:35:51] where to be, when to be there and how he had some of these details that really had not been publicized [1:35:58] yet. So some real light on that buildup to that horrible crime that was captured by security cameras [1:36:05] that we've all seen so many times. And just the, thanks, Steph, and just, guys, the premeditation [1:36:10] involved there. I will tell you that since that event in 2024, there's not a CEO in America that [1:36:15] doesn't have, that doesn't have security, armed security in most cases. And in fact, they are very [1:36:20] careful about the, the traffic, the email traffic that's going to so many of those because this was [1:36:25] such a shocking, such a shocking crime that the CEO, a father of two kids could just be gunned down [1:36:32] and brought in an early morning in, in Manhattan. Let's go back to what we're hearing more about [1:36:39] Luigi Mangione. We're hearing his words read in court to us. Tell us more about what he is saying [1:36:45] happened. Yeah, it's interesting. It's, you know, we all want cameras in the courtroom today of all days [1:36:50] is a day that we want cameras in the courtroom because I'm so looking forward to seeing what our [1:36:54] producers say about what is his tone? Is it monotone? Is there an affect to it, right? We [1:36:59] just haven't heard that much from him, but he is going through at least some level of detail. [1:37:05] And then the prosecutors are talking about him arriving on bus and following him and the video [1:37:09] and then arriving in Pennsylvania. Again, some of the facts we've heard, but we just have never heard [1:37:14] them in his own words. Now, of course, all of this is carefully choreographed with his lawyers. [1:37:18] He's not just like sort of freelancing what the speech that he's giving in court right now. [1:37:23] Every word that is coming out of his mouth, Christine, serves a purpose. [1:37:26] You know, Misty, it's so interesting to me because there is a time that these two prosecutions were [1:37:30] operating independently of each other and were operating as if each were the only [1:37:35] upcoming case against Luigi Mangione. If you're the state prosecutors, [1:37:39] how are you feeling right now? I am starting to draft my opposition to the motion for double jeopardy [1:37:44] to get this case thrown out for that ask for dismissal. That is just so predictable right [1:37:49] now. As far as the state prosecutors are concerned, they want to be able to prosecute Luigi Mangione [1:37:55] for murder. Those are the state charges. They want to bring justice for Brian Thompson and his family. [1:38:01] They've made that very clear through a very aggressive state level prosecution. So they're absolutely [1:38:07] going to be opposing the defense asking for that state court trial to be thrown out. And Christine, [1:38:14] it's not really a slam dunk. You know, this is what I would call a calculated risk by Luigi Mangione's [1:38:21] defense team because on one hand, okay, he's pled guilty to the federal charges. He could get some [1:38:27] credit for doing so. Maybe he gets something less than life and they try and get the state court case [1:38:32] thrown out. There's no guarantee that that will actually happen. There's an exception to that rule [1:38:37] about the same transaction or occurrence. And it's that the other prosecution, in this case, [1:38:42] the state prosecution seeks to remedy a different type of harm or there's different elements to the [1:38:47] charges. That is why when Laura is talking about the strategy and this factual elocution, Luigi Mangione [1:38:53] in his own words saying what happened, he's including facts that would tend to give him a better [1:39:00] argument on that state double jeopardy motion because he's saying all this stuff, shooting [1:39:04] Brian Thompson, that is all part of my federal plea deal. You can't prosecute me twice, but that is by [1:39:09] no means something that is just going to necessarily go away. That will be another legal fight. [1:39:14] We know the family of Brian Thompson is in the courtroom for the first time in the same room as the man who [1:39:19] has now just admitted that his stalking action led to the death of Brian Thompson. We know that the [1:39:24] parents or the family of Brian Thompson were talking to the U.S. attorneys. One wonders how the family [1:39:31] must feel about what has happened here today, especially if they want to see a murder charge. [1:39:36] Well, and it'll be interesting because they do have a reasonable opportunity to be heard and it's [1:39:40] sentencing. Most definitely, I would expect that we would hear from them. We often see in these types [1:39:45] of cases a victim impact statement. Some of them can be quite emotional and powerful where the victim [1:39:50] gets up and not only talks about what has happened to their loved one, but has talked about what that [1:39:56] loss has meant for their life. And so I would expect in a case like this, it would not be at all unusual [1:40:01] to hear from the victim's family at sentencing, but we don't yet know. And I'm sure this will come out [1:40:05] through reporting. We don't yet know. Did they object to this? Did they tell federal prosecutors, [1:40:10] please do not do this. We want a federal trial. Or are they hoping they're still going to get some [1:40:15] vindication in the state case? Maybe they're hoping since that's the second degree murder case, [1:40:19] that that one will still go forward and they'll still see justice in that way. That's something [1:40:23] we're going to have to try to report. Remind us why there are two cases. Why? I mean, [1:40:26] normally these sorts of cases are charged at the state level. Am I right? Yes. Murder cases are [1:40:30] generally falling under state jurisdiction, but there's this doctrine called dual sovereignty, [1:40:34] which means if there is a federal theory that fits the facts of the case, a federal case can be [1:40:40] brought as well. So here, the reason that you even see federal charges is that he crossed state lines [1:40:46] in order to get to Brian Thompson and ultimately commit that murder. So that then falls under that [1:40:51] federal jurisdiction. Now, the defense has been arguing and shouting from the rooftops, [1:40:57] especially since the death penalty is taken off the table. It's the stalking charges in federal court, [1:41:01] murder charges in state court, that there should not be two prosecutions. And that's always been their [1:41:06] argument with regard to double jeopardy. But the cases remain because of that doctrine of dual [1:41:11] sovereignty. And Christine, that's why the timing, this is not lost on us, that this federal plea deal [1:41:16] is happening before that state court case, because they only derived the benefit because the state [1:41:20] law is a little bit broader on that front. And then there's the backdrop of the spectacle of all of [1:41:24] this, you know, somebody deboning a fish in line today. I mean, just some of the amount of money that [1:41:31] he has raised to the tune of $1.5 million for his legal defense fund, legions of people showing up to [1:41:38] court, whenever there's a court hearing, even if it's something routine, people who are camped out [1:41:42] there in support of him, people who are saying, I too was hurt by the health insurance industry. [1:41:48] Again, this is a murder case. This is now an on-the-record killing of a human being. But [1:41:55] people are talking about their experience with the healthcare industry and how it was wronged them. [1:41:59] It's quite remarkable, sort of, what this has pulled out in people. [1:42:03] Totally. And, you know, when you're talking about prosecutors coming to the table and engaging in [1:42:06] these negotiations with the defense and you say, well, we've got a video of him shooting [1:42:11] Bryan Thompson in cold blood on the street. Why would you even entertain it? Well, part of it is [1:42:16] that trial is truly an unpredictable thing. And I can't think of a case that is more unpredictable [1:42:23] to seat a jury that, and we've been covering cases together for so many years. This case has just really [1:42:28] made that mark as far as what you see outside the courtroom, that legal defense fund. And who knows what [1:42:35] could happen if you do see the jury? Do you get that stealth juror who wants to be there so that [1:42:39] they can upend a potential verdict? Do you see this movement online of what's called jury nullification? [1:42:44] There's a whole movement where people are promoting and letting people know what jury [1:42:49] nullification is, which means you think they're guilty, but for a bigger public policy reason, [1:42:53] you find them innocent. You don't listen. So all of that, this backdrop, it helps you to understand why [1:42:59] we don't know what the family's position is, but there is some degree when you know there's finality. [1:43:04] Yeah. There's no appeal. You don't have to sit in court and hear all of this two times, [1:43:08] potentially. Especially if he gets life, right? If he wasn't going to get the death penalty anyway, [1:43:12] if he does in fact get life, which will be up to the judge. But the real question is what happens [1:43:17] with that state case? Because if they were banking on him still going forward in the state case and the [1:43:21] family was okay with the federal plea under the assumption that he would still go forward in the state [1:43:26] case, that that could all be up in the back. I just don't see how that case goes forward anytime [1:43:31] soon. I mean, when you talk about all the evidence in this case, it's almost overwhelming. The video [1:43:38] now he's admitted to sending emails where he found out exactly where Brian Thompson was going to be. [1:43:43] And then there's the backpack in the Altoona, Pennsylvania, McDonald's, which had sort of [1:43:48] the writings, the writings, basically a play by play. I'm just trying to always put myself in the [1:43:53] minds of the family of the deceased. And did they want something more? We just don't know. [1:43:59] Yeah, we don't know. We know that they were in the courtroom today and we know [1:44:02] from the reporting that there were people from United Healthcare there also. So that's interesting. [1:44:08] And that, because the victims in these cases have to be informed, they have to be advised, [1:44:13] their opinion is taken into consideration by prosecutors. But it's important to note, [1:44:18] while they have the ability to communicate the way they want things to unfold when it comes to a [1:44:23] plea deal, it's ultimately up to prosecutors' prosecutorial discretion to make that call. [1:44:28] So we might see more about that though, kind of get a feel for what the position was at sentencing. [1:44:33] And we're going to learn more. You know, the probation department will interview him. [1:44:37] And as a part of that, we'll get a lot more information about what happened to this man. [1:44:41] What happened to this man who came from a well-to-do family, who starts his immediate sort of [1:44:46] colloquy with, after years of enduring severe pain with back and witnessing the healthcare system. [1:44:51] The first words out of his mouth is excuses for why he has done this, which I think is [1:44:56] fascinating positioning. But what happened in that period in his life where everything seemed to be [1:45:01] okay. And then he ends up doing something like this. And this is dark period of his life that we [1:45:06] still have not fully unpacked. And this story is not over because now there will be legal wrangling for [1:45:11] what happens next in the state trial. Both of you, thank you so much. Thanks to everyone who [1:45:14] joined us today. Luigi Mangione pleading guilty to federal charges in the killing of United [1:45:19] Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson. Sentencing now set for December. NBC News Daily picks up all of this [1:45:26] breaking news after a very quick break.