Cuban deputy FM reacts to Trump’s threats to take over Cuba: Full interview

[0:00] And joining me now is Deputy Foreign Minister of Cuba, Carlos Fernandez de Cossio. [0:06] Welcome to Meet the Press, Mr. Foreign Minister. [0:11] Thank you for having me. [0:12] Thank you so much for being here. I do want to start off by playing for you something that [0:18] President Trump said about Cuba just this week, speaking from the White House. Take a listen. [0:24] I do believe I'll be the honor of having the honor of taking Cuba. That'd be good. [0:32] That's a big honor. [0:33] Taking Cuba. [0:33] Taking Cuba in some form, yeah. [0:36] Taking Cuba. I mean, whether I free it, take it, I think I can do anything I want with it, [0:42] you want to know the truth. [0:44] Mr. Deputy Foreign Minister, what was your reaction to hearing that? Is Cuba bracing [0:49] for the United States to take it in some form? [0:52] We don't know what they're talking about, but I can tell you this. Cuba is a sovereign country [1:02] and has the right to be a sovereign country and has the right to self-determination. [1:08] Cuba would not accept to become a [1:11] vice-president. [1:11] Cuba would not accept to become a vassal state or a dependent state from any other country or any other superpower. [1:17] Well, let's delve into this a little bit more deeply. Cuba's president released a statement that read in part, [1:23] quote, any external aggressor will clash with impregnable resistance. Do you believe any action by the United States [1:31] would escalate into a military conflict? [1:34] We hope not, but what our president expressed is what any country that respects itself would [1:46] consider. [1:46] We hope that Cuba will not convey if there was a threat to try to take over a country or to try to dominate or control it in any way. [1:54] But we truly hope that there's no military action. And frankly, we see no reason. We see no justification for military action against Cuba. [2:03] Cuba is a peaceful country. We're not an enemy of the United States. We don't pose any threat to the United States. In fact, we wish and we said it openly that we would like to have a friendly and respectful relationship with the United States, with its government. [2:17] And we've developed we've been developing it for a long time with the people of the United States. [2:22] And yet you heard those words by President Trump. So I'm wondering, is your military preparing for a potential engagement with the United States? [2:32] Our military is always prepared. And in fact, it is preparing these days for the possibility of military aggression. We would be naive if looking at what's happening around the world. We would not do that. But we truly hope that it doesn't occur. [2:52] We don't see why it would have to occur. And we find no justification whatsoever. Why would the government, the United States, force its country to take military action against a neighboring country like Cuba? [3:03] So this is a remarkable statement that you've just made that Cuba is, in fact, preparing for the potential possibility of a military engagement with the United States. Can you be more specific? What do those preparations look like? [3:21] Our country has historically been ready to mobilize as a nation, as a whole. [3:27] For what? [3:28] For military aggression. We truly always see it as something far from us. We don't believe it is something that is probable. But we would be naive if we do not prepare. That's what I can tell you. [3:41] The U.S. and Cuba have confirmed that they are talking, but have given very few details. Secretary of State Marco Rubio is leading those talks for the United States. Here's what he had to say from the White House this week. Take a listen. [3:57] So they're in a lot of trouble and the people in charge. [4:01] They don't know how to fix it. So they have to get new people in charge. [4:05] So is the United States insisting on regime change in order to give Cuba economic relief? [4:11] I don't know what they're insisting among themselves, but I can tell you in conversation with the United States and in dialogue with the United States, the nature of the Cuban government, the structure of the Cuban government and the members of the Cuban government are not part of the negotiation. [4:32] That is something that no sovereign country negotiates. [4:36] I don't know. [4:37] How many examples are there of countries that negotiate with a foreign power, their system of government or the nature of the government? [4:45] I'm sure the United States is not ready to negotiate with another government, its constitutional system, its political system. [4:53] Now, the U.S. government knows that the problems that Cuba faces are in a great, great measure the result of policies of the United States aimed at causing as much harm possible to the Cuban people. [5:07] So, the U.S. government has to negotiate with the Cuban government. [5:08] The U.S. government has to negotiate with the Cuban people. [5:08] The U.S. government has to negotiate with the Cuban people. [5:08] The Cuban economy, the Cuban society and to the people of Cuba, which makes any government, makes it for any government very difficult to manage things and to get good results when a superpower is exerting such level of pressure, above all economically, on the country. [5:24] Are you saying that regime change is off the table? [5:30] Absolutely. [5:31] Okay. [5:32] Let's talk about what changes you would potentially be willing to make to save your country. [5:37] The embargo with the U.S. ends if Cuba does three things. [5:40] Schedule elections. [5:42] Recognize political parties, unions and a free press. [5:46] And release all political prisoners. [5:49] Will you commit to any of those steps, Mr. Deputy Foreign Minister, in order to save your country? [5:58] Let me be clear. [5:59] We are in dialogue with the United States to talk about bilateral issues. [6:04] We're not talking about prisoners in the United States. [6:07] And the U.S. has the highest record of prisoners in the world. [6:10] But we're talking about political prisoners. [6:12] We're not talking about problems in elections in the United States or constitutional systems. [6:15] Well, the United States has a huge amount of people that are in jail for whatever reasons, [6:23] but that have strong political positions. [6:25] If we're talking about political positions, we're not talking about those in the case of the United States. [6:30] In Cuba, we're not talking about prisoners in our negotiation with the United States. [6:35] It's a domestic issue of Cuba. [6:37] It is not a bilateral issue with the United States. [6:40] And the U.S. knows it. [6:41] But there are many, many important issues of a bilateral nature that should and could be discussed. [6:48] And that is what we are ready to engage with in conversations with the government of the United States. [6:57] Well, and going back to those potential issues, there is only one political party in Cuba. [7:04] So currently, people really have no choice. [7:07] Going back to my original question, would you be willing to change that in order to save your country, [7:14] given that it's one of the things that the United States is asking for? [7:21] It's a domestic issue of Cuba. [7:23] The United States has only two political parties that can go to government. [7:26] Are they ready to negotiate to have ten with equal possibilities of getting to the presidency, of getting in Congress? [7:34] I'm sure the United States would not negotiate that with any country. [7:38] I don't know if they have the willingness to do it, but I'm sure they won't negotiate it. [7:41] Cuba is a sovereign nation, as I said at the beginning of the program. [7:46] And, of course, it's something that is not on the table to negotiate Cuba's reality. [7:52] Okay. [7:53] Cuba's problem. [7:53] Cuba's problems are not the result of having one party. [7:57] When did the last discussions take place between the United States and Cuba, and where? [8:05] I won't go into detail. [8:07] We said publicly that we're going to be discreet about it, and we're going to remain that way. [8:13] Can you tell me what the ultimate goal is of these discussions from your perspective? [8:18] What do you hope to gain? [8:22] Our aim is to try to build a respectful relationship. [8:27] The U.S. government, the current government, has said that it wants to make America great again. [8:32] We have no quarrel with that. [8:34] That it wants to have secure borders. [8:36] We have no quarrel with that. [8:38] In fact, we can help with that. [8:40] That it wants immigrants that enter into the United States to do so legally, not illegally. [8:47] And we have no quarrel with that. [8:48] In fact, we can help with that from our side. [8:50] And those are the kinds of issues that we believe are of interest of the people of the United States and for the government of the United States. [8:56] We can work together to fight drug trafficking, to fight organized crime in our region, to fight threats. [9:03] In general, in our region, and that's what governments and countries do with each other when they dialogue, when they have dialogue, and when they cooperate. [9:11] We can also talk about business. [9:13] There are changes taking place in Cuba today, in our investment policy, in the structure of a property in Cuba. [9:19] In the way different forms of property work in Cuba, which could be of interest for the United States and for Americans who today cannot do business in Cuba because they are prohibited by their government. [9:30] Those are issues that we can talk about. [9:32] And we can find room for accommodation. [9:34] We're not shut down or we're not closed to having some accommodation if we can improve the relationship with the United States in those areas. [9:44] And I'm sure there's a lot of areas in which if we sit down and discuss meaningfully, we can have a lot of ground to work on and for the benefit, again, of both countries. [9:54] Secretary Rubio is the son of Cuban immigrants. [9:58] He has spent his career criticizing your government. [10:00] In fact, he's the son of the president. [10:02] In fact, at one point he was asked, is Cuba a state sponsor of terrorism? [10:05] He said, without question. [10:07] Can you negotiate in good faith with Secretary of State Marco Rubio? [10:15] We have a position, a long position, of having dialogue and being ready to have dialogue with the United States to solve our problems. [10:22] And it's not only a standing, a long-standing position. [10:25] It's a logical position. [10:27] What's the alternative to having dialogue with a country with which you have problems? [10:31] So we face dialogue as the natural, the logical, and the necessary solution. [10:34] Now, we also have experience of having dialogue with the United States. [10:42] Some with good results, but also some in which Cuba has fulfilled all of the commitments that we have agreed to, and yet the United States has reversed many of them. [10:54] And the best example was during 2014, 15, 16, and even 17, in which we reached agreements. [11:02] Cuba fulfilled all of them. [11:04] And the United States, by their own recognition, broke all those agreements and said that they will not follow what they had agreed the previous years. [11:12] And still with that, we follow the dialogue. [11:15] But on Secretary Rubio specifically, is he someone with whom you can negotiate in good faith? [11:24] We are ready to negotiate with the person that the U.S. government, as a sovereign nation, designates as their spokesperson, as their lead negotiator. [11:33] We're ready to negotiate with whoever is designated by the U.S. government. [11:37] We're a sovereign nation. We don't interfere with that. [11:39] There are reports that Secretary Rubio is dealing directly with Raul Castro's grandson, Raulito. [11:45] Is that accurate? Why is he the one who has direct contact with the United States? [11:51] I won't go into detail. [11:56] But the point I need to make is that the Cuban political leadership is committed to this, united, cohesively. [12:04] This is led by the leader of the revolution, Raul Castro, and by the president of Cuba, who recognized this publicly and said it publicly. [12:13] But you don't dispute that report that Secretary of State Marco Rubio is dealing directly with the grandson of Raul Castro? [12:21] You don't deny that? [12:25] I won't go into details. [12:27] Okay. Let's talk broadly speaking now. [12:31] The United States has made its goal of regime change quite clear. [12:35] You say that's off the table, as you just reiterated here. [12:38] In Venezuela, the Trump administration forcibly removed President Maduro, as you know, [12:43] and is now working with acting President Delcy Rodriguez. [12:47] Iran was in ongoing talks with the U.S. when their leadership was killed. [12:52] Do you believe Cuba will have a different outcome? [12:55] I prefer for people, when they judge Cuba, not to make parallels. [13:04] We have our own reality, our own circumstances. [13:08] And as I said at the beginning, we hope there won't be, and we don't think there's any need for there to be any military action by the U.S. against Cuba. [13:17] And respectfully, Mr. Deputy Foreign Minister, when people look at these countries, [13:23] when they hear the comments by President Trump saying effectively that he does plan to go into Cuba, [13:31] it seems impossible for people not to draw parallels. [13:36] So why would there be a different outcome? [13:39] Are you bracing for the possibility of a similar outcome? [13:42] You would have to ask that question to the United States. [13:48] We are ready for any outcome. [13:50] And we have to be ready for any outcome. [13:53] As you said at the beginning, unfortunately, we're trying to prepare ourselves for any outcome, [13:58] including the ones that we feel that there's no justification for them to occur. [14:03] What matters to you more in this moment, preserving the revolution or saving the island from total economic collapse? [14:15] Saving our people from being overtaken by a foreign power and to take it back decades [14:23] to Cuba that we overcame a long time ago. [14:27] A Cuba that people don't have good memories of them, only very few people. [14:32] And to continue to protect our people, the peace that we have in our country, [14:36] the tranquility that we have in our country, the social justice that exists in Cuba, [14:41] the sense of solidarity among our people, that is the nature of Cuba. [14:45] And it is our priority to protect that. [14:49] Cubans, as you know, died trying to protect Nicolas Maduro. [14:53] They were his bodyguards. [14:54] I have to ask you. [14:55] Have you reached out to the acting president of Venezuela, Delcy Rodríguez? [15:00] We have a very fluent communication with him. [15:06] And what is the nature of that communication? [15:09] It's not something that I follow personally. [15:14] I couldn't answer that with detail. [15:16] But I know that there's a close communication with him. [15:18] Okay. [15:20] Mr. Deputy Foreign Minister, this all, of course, comes back to oil. [15:24] Your country has not received oil shipments in weeks. [15:27] And without that fuel, your citizens are, quite frankly, in crisis. [15:31] The U.S. has enacted. [15:33] An oil blockade now for nearly three months. [15:37] How much longer can your nation go on like this? [15:40] Is it days? [15:41] Is it weeks? [15:42] Is it months? [15:43] It is important to point out that for any country, to export fuel to Cuba is legal. [15:52] And for Cuba to import fuel from any country, with the exception of the U.S. [15:58] because of the economic blockade regulations, but from any other country is legal. [16:03] What's happening today is that the U.S. [16:05] is threatening, with coercive measures, countries that might export fuel to Cuba. [16:13] And that's the reason why Cuba has not received fuel for a long time. [16:17] It is very severe. [16:19] And we are acting as proactively as we can to cope with the situation. [16:24] We do hope that fuel will reach Cuba one way or the other. [16:28] And that this boycott that the United States has been imposing does not last and cannot be sustained forever. [16:35] But I guess the question is how long... [16:36] And frankly, we hope that... [16:38] Let me finish. [16:42] Hopefully, we feel that clear minds prevail in the United States. [16:46] And that they come to the conclusion that it's quite nasty to treat the whole population of a country [16:54] in the way the United States is treating Cuba. [16:56] Yesterday, we published that 96,000 Cubans are waiting for surgery as a result of lack of fuel and lack of energy. [17:04] Among them, 11,000 children. [17:06] So I would think that the American people, the people in the United States would feel, [17:10] why does our government treat the whole population of Cuba in this way? [17:15] And I hope that the people of the United States would understand [17:18] that it's not correct to treat another nation the way the U.S. is doing it, [17:23] simply to try to achieve political goals, because that is what's behind the approach of the United States. [17:30] So again, we're trusting that this cannot be sustained in the long term. [17:34] Mr. Deputy Foreign Minister, NBC News has been on the ground in your country all week long. [17:39] Our crews have seen people who haven't worked. [17:40] We've seen people who haven't worked in weeks. [17:42] Kids who haven't gone to school. [17:44] Food and energy running dangerously low. [17:47] President Trump says he believes that Cuba will collapse on its own. [17:51] Is your country currently in a state of collapse? [17:54] What does on its own mean when it's being forced by the United States? [18:02] It's a very bizarre statement. [18:05] And it's claimed by most U.S. politicians repeatedly that Cuba will collapse on its own. [18:11] Then why does the U.S. government need to employ so many resources, [18:17] so much political capital, so many human resources, [18:21] to try to destroy the economy of another country? [18:24] Evidently, it implies that the country does not have the characteristics to collapse on its own. [18:30] But is your country in a state of collapse, Mr. Deputy Foreign Minister? [18:37] It is not in a state of collapse. [18:39] We're being as creative as possible. [18:41] We're mustering all our creativity, [18:44] our creativity, our ingenuity, [18:46] to try to find ways in which we can cope with the reality [18:49] that we did not choose, [18:51] of which we are not responsible, [18:53] and that would help our people go through this with the least pain possible. [18:57] But pain is there, I have no doubt. [18:59] You say you're not responsible. [19:01] Putting this blockade aside though, Mr. Deputy Foreign Minister, [19:04] human rights groups have reported that nearly 90% of your citizens live in extreme poverty. [19:11] Nearly 80% of your citizens intend to emigrate. [19:14] Has your system of communism failed the people of Cuba? [19:24] I don't know which are your sources, [19:27] and which are the human rights organizations that claim such. [19:31] But I'm sure, and I can quite accurately guess, [19:34] that the majority are either financed directly by the U.S. government [19:37] or by proxies of the U.S. government. [19:39] Now, people are hurting in Cuba. [19:42] There's no doubt about that. [19:44] But you do not, you cannot put a question mark [19:48] on the system of socialism or communism [19:50] or the system of government that we have in Cuba, [19:52] whichever way you wish to call it, [19:55] if the U.S., the most powerful nation in the world, [19:58] has had to dedicate almost seven decades [20:01] to try to destroy the system of government and yet failed. [20:04] Cuba, if you look at the ranks in the U.N., [20:08] has one of the highest ranks for a developing country, [20:11] and even compared to developed countries in terms of human development. [20:15] Now, what does human development mean? [20:18] The livelihood of people, not the wealth of a few, [20:21] not the wealth of an elite, [20:23] not the index of the Dow Jones, [20:25] it's the welfare of the population. [20:27] And Cuba has consistently, for decades, [20:29] with the system of government that we have, [20:31] had those rankings. [20:33] Now, if the U.S. today is putting to extreme its economic aggression, [20:39] it is natural for people to suffer. [20:41] And if you try to describe in whatever rank [20:43] the amount of people that are suffering poverty, [20:46] the amount of people that are having difficulty with food, [20:50] the great majority of all of us who suffer 30, 36 hours [20:54] of lack of electricity, [20:56] you cannot blame the government [20:58] if you have the most powerful nation in the world [21:00] dedicating so many resources to create that scenario. [21:04] And yet, Mr. Deputy Foreign Minister, [21:07] I hear you try to place blame on the United States, [21:10] and yet for 67 years your country has had no free press, [21:14] no free elections, a history of political prisoners. [21:18] Your country has not been able to function [21:20] without the aid or assistance from your allies. [21:24] Does your government bear some responsibility [21:28] for the fact that your people are suffering? [21:30] Those are statements that you cannot substantiate. [21:36] You don't have evidence to sustain all the affirmations [21:40] that you have just made in your statement, unfortunately. [21:43] I know that it might come to you in whatever literature you have, [21:46] but you cannot sustain those affirmations that you have. [21:49] Cuba has been a successful country. [21:51] What developing country has been submitted to the onslaught [21:55] from the most powerful nation in the world [21:57] and yet been able to carry solidarity to over 100 countries. [22:01] Have health indicators that are better than the ones [22:04] that you have in the United States. [22:06] Have educational indicators that are better than the ones [22:08] that you have in the United States. [22:10] Have housing indicators which are better than the ones [22:12] that you have in the United States. [22:14] The majority of people in Cuba, I'm talking about 90%, [22:16] live in homes that they own, [22:18] that they don't have to pay mortgage for. [22:20] So claims that you make trying to portray Cuba as a failure [22:25] cannot be substantiated. [22:27] It is different from the United States. [22:29] It is a much humbler country in terms of the size of the economy [22:31] of the United States. [22:33] It's much different than the United States, [22:35] but it's not wrong. [22:37] Being different is not mistaken. [22:39] And above all, it does not excuse submitting the whole population [22:43] to an unrelenting warfare by the most powerful nation in the world. [22:47] There's no way, whatever statement you make, [22:49] that can excuse for the U.S. government to abuse [22:53] in such a way the people of Cuba. [22:55] It's common sense. [22:57] It's moral sense. [23:00] Thank you, foreign minister. [23:02] Just finally, what is your message to President Trump this morning? [23:04] Cuba has no quarrel with the United States. [23:09] We do have the need [23:12] and the right to protect ourselves. [23:14] But we are willing to sit down. [23:16] We're open for business [23:18] and we're open to having a respectful relationship [23:22] that I'm sure the majority of Americans would support [23:24] and I'm sure the President of the United States [23:26] would support if we could sit down [23:28] and talk meaningfully about it. [23:31] All right, Cuban Deputy Foreign Minister [23:33] Carlos Fernandez de Cosillo, [23:35] thank you so very much for joining us this morning. [23:37] We really appreciate it. [23:41] Thank you. Thank you.