COURTROOM INSIDER — Roommate video, texts, gun, bullets & other bombshell evidence revealed

[0:07] Hi there, everybody. Welcome to Courtroom Insider. It is Thursday, the 9th of July, 2026. I'm Nate Eaton, and I'm back home from Provo, Utah. But I was there this morning at the courthouse. You can see as Erica Kirk and Charlie Kirk's parents were walking inside. They didn't have anything to say as they entered the preliminary hearing. This is day four of Tyler Robinson's preliminary hearing. He's the man accused of killing Charlie Kirk at Utah Valley University last September. [0:37] And this was the day where we saw the key pieces of evidence that the prosecution has. First of all, the prosecution rested this afternoon. So their part is done. The defense has one more witness who they will call in the morning. And we'll talk about what will happen next after that. [0:59] But this was the, you could call it damning evidence, as many people have. Tyler Robinson's roommate, romantic partner Lance Twiggs, who also goes by Luna, that's what Tyler calls him is Luna, revealed today that Tyler told him he did it. [1:18] That Charlie Kirk was shot by Tyler Robinson. We saw text messages. We heard about a note and Discord chats. If you weren't in the courtroom, you didn't see it. But we're going to get to all of that tonight. [1:33] I'd love to know where you're watching from. If you have any questions, please put it in the comments and your thoughts about the preliminary hearing so far. [1:43] Quick reminder, a preliminary hearing is not a trial. Basically, the state, who has the burden of proof, has to prove to the judge, Judge Tony Graff, that this crime probably happened and that Tyler Kirk committed it. [1:58] Excuse me, Tyler Robinson committed it. The bar is very low. And I would argue that the state has definitely presented that there is enough evidence to say that Tyler Robinson likely did it. [2:12] He's not been convicted. He is presumed innocent until he is found guilty, if he is, and if this goes to trial. [2:18] We saw the text exchanges, which we'll go through in a moment. We also learned about DNA results from the rifle and cartridges retrieved from that wooded area near the campus that I showed you last night. [2:33] And guess whose DNA was on it? Tyler Robinson. [2:37] Now, before we get to the video, this video is that you know we talked about it yesterday. That was mainly everything that was discussed yesterday. [2:46] I was in the courtroom yesterday. They finally agreed. The judge went back and forth with the defense, the prosecution, Erica Kirk's attorney, all of them weighing in on different things. [2:54] And the judge finally said the video can be admitted with certain redactions, parts that need to be cut out. [3:00] That same discussion was held this morning for two hours. [3:05] Finally, the judge ruled and said the video will be played to the public. [3:10] Thank you, judge, not just the people in the courtroom, but also the public, the courtroom, everybody. [3:18] But there will be black sections played in the video. [3:21] So in order to get the video in, Agent Brian Davis had to go back to the stand. [3:26] Remember, this is the guy, 18-year vet with the SBI, State Bureau of Investigation. [3:31] He's the one that took a plane down to St. George and did a whole, was there when Tyler Robinson was interviewed, all of that. [3:40] So he's very familiar with the case. [3:43] And remember that he talked about how Lance Twiggs, his roommate, was given immunity, limited immunity to do this. [3:49] And so they met with him twice, with Twiggs twice. [3:52] Once right after Robinson was arrested back in September. [3:56] And then once in April, when this video you're about to see was recorded. [4:00] It was a Zoom type of interview setting where Twiggs was there with his attorney and Ryan McBride from the prosecutor's office asked him questions. [4:08] You'll notice his vocal tone and demeanor as he talks about what he did and did not know about Robinson and the killing of Charlie Kirk. [4:17] Twiggs starts off by explaining how they met in 2023, they moved in as roommates, and then they began a romantic relationship a few months later. [4:26] Now, I'm going to play you this whole interview because this is like the key piece. [4:35] We've heard so much about it. [4:37] I want you to hear it. [4:38] But I'm going to remove the blackout sections, the pieces that were redacted. [4:44] So this is a trimmed down version of the whole interview, which the parts we saw were around 20 minutes. [4:50] The redacted portions, the reason the judge says they couldn't get in is because there might be confidential information on there. [4:58] It could be extra prejudicial, which once the trial comes, we'll see if this whole thing gets in. [5:05] Because I'd be fascinated to hear what we did not hear today. [5:08] So with that introduction, here is the exchange with Lance Twiggs. [5:14] Is to use your statement here instead of your testimony at a preliminary hearing. [5:20] Do you understand that? [5:22] So in order to do that, I need to place you under oath and also give you an admonition about false statements, okay? [5:31] First, you do solemnly swear or affirm that the evidence you shall give in this issue shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. [5:40] So help you, God? [5:41] Yes. [5:43] I also need to notify you that you are notified the statements you are about to make may be presented to a magistrate or a judge in lieu of your sworn testimony at a preliminary examination. [5:55] Any false statement you make and that you do not believe to be true may subject you to criminal punishment as a Class A misdemeanor. [6:03] Do you understand that? [6:04] Yes. [6:04] That potentially could be used for punishment as a higher offense as obstruction of justice. [6:10] In addition, I just want to make sure that our recording here is clear that you've also been given a federal agreement and a state agreement granting you immunity from prosecution for materials that you discuss now. [6:29] Do you understand that? [6:30] Mm-hmm. [6:31] First, I'm going to cover some of the things that you've already talked about, but to make it as part of this record. [6:41] First, what's your name? [6:44] Full name with middle name or just first and last? [6:46] First and last is fine. [6:47] Okay. [6:47] My name is Lance Twiggs. [6:49] And do you know Tyler Robinson? [6:52] Yes, I do. [6:53] Or, yeah, I do. [6:55] And this is the same Tyler Robinson that's been charged with the shooting of Charlie Kirk? [6:59] Yes. [6:59] And would you say when you first met Tyler? [7:05] I think it was 2023. [7:06] I've known him longer than that, though. [7:08] That was, I think, the first time I met him in person. [7:11] Okay. [7:16] And would you describe your relationship with Tyler when you first met him anyway? [7:24] When I first met him, I didn't know him super well. [7:27] He was just a new roommate. [7:29] So I knew he knew my friend group, and I knew he liked playing games, but that's about it when we first, like, when he first moved him. [7:41] Okay. [7:42] Before we go on, I realized my mic was muted at the outset. [7:45] Was your mic on? [7:46] Your mic on? [7:47] Okay. [7:49] I'm going to repeat those admonitions just to make sure we got it recorded. [7:53] Okay. [7:53] So, again, I placed you under oath. [7:57] Just to make a record, I'm going to do it again. [8:00] You just always swear that evidence you shall give in this issue shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth shall be common. [8:08] Yes. [8:08] And, again, I'm going to give you the false ad statement. [8:12] Sorry. [8:13] Hold on. [8:16] They're saying that it's echoing. [8:17] So, I think this one's mic is on. [8:19] Okay. [8:20] Sorry. [8:21] Okay. [8:22] You're not holding my mic. [8:23] That's fine. [8:24] Okay. [8:24] Okay. [8:25] So, we should be good. [8:25] All right. [8:26] Is that mic on? [8:36] Yes. [8:36] Okay. [8:37] Great. [8:38] All right. [8:39] Okay. [8:39] Sorry about that interruption. [8:40] All right. [8:41] So, you said when you first met, you were roommates? [8:45] Yeah. [8:46] Okay. [8:46] And then, at some point, your relationship progressed to something more than roommates, right? [8:51] Mm-hmm. [8:52] When was that? [8:53] I think we started dating two or three months after he moved in. [8:58] Okay. [8:59] And where did you live at that time? [9:01] St. George in an apartment complex. [9:04] And is that apartment the same place you lived on September 10th? [9:10] Yes. [9:13] When you lived there with Tyler, were you in the same room? [9:17] Did you live in the same room or different rooms? [9:19] Separate rooms. [9:22] And at that time, let's say September of 2025, what were you doing with your life? [9:29] Were you working? [9:29] School? [9:30] I was working. [9:31] I was doing, like, bathtub and shower repair and stuff in new construction. [9:38] Okay. [9:38] How about Tyler? [9:40] I think he was both working. [9:42] I think he was working for an electrician company then, and he was also in a trade school for being, I don't know, higher, like, ranking electrician. [9:53] I'm not sure how the trade system works for that. [9:56] Okay. [9:56] But, yeah, I think he was both. [9:58] What was his typical workday like? [10:02] I think he'd leave around seven, generally, and get back around three to four, depending on, like, where the job was and how long it was for the day. [10:13] And then on certain days of the week during school, like, semesters, he would then later in the day, I think around five or six, go to school. [10:26] So, yeah. [10:27] Okay. [10:27] Let's jump to September 10th. [10:30] Did he spend the night in the apartment the night of September 9th into September 10th? [10:37] Yeah, he did. [10:40] Yes. [10:41] Do you know when he left the apartment on September 10th? [10:43] I don't know an exact time. [10:45] I just know he left early. [10:48] I heard him leaving, and he just said he had, like, a long drive to work that day, so he was leaving early. [10:54] Okay. [10:55] So early, any guess as to what, when that was? [11:02] I don't know. [11:04] I would have thought it was 5 a.m. because that's when, like, an early workday was for him, but it was probably more like 4. [11:12] Okay. [11:15] I'm going to have the status count just to make sure that. [11:17] I can do that. [11:18] You're right in front of your laptop. [11:20] Oh, here you go. [11:22] Thank you. [11:22] So what time did you get up on September 10th? [11:40] Probably, like, 12 to 1 p.m. [11:44] You didn't have to work that day? [11:45] No. [11:46] And did you hear from Tyler? [11:48] Did he call or text you before then? [11:51] No. [11:51] He sent that message in the group chat I mentioned, but he didn't message me directly at all that day. [11:58] Okay. [11:58] When did you first hear from him on September 10th? [12:01] It was at 11 o'clock with that, like, automated message. [12:06] Okay. [12:06] 11 p.m. [12:07] Yeah. [12:07] He asks you here, remember how I was engraving bullets. [12:11] Was he engraving bullets before this? [12:13] Yeah, I don't remember exactly when, but he had said he was planning to go hunting with his family, and he asked me for a, if we had, like, a Dremel to, because he said he wanted to create messages on bullets. [12:27] And I just told him where Dremel was, and I told him to make sure he doesn't, like, set off a bullet on accident in the house. [12:38] But I didn't really think about it until then. [12:40] How long before September 10th was this that he asked about the Dremel? [12:46] I don't remember, because he'd been talking about the hunting-slash-camping trip for a couple months, but I don't remember when he was specifically asking to engrave the bullets. [13:02] So are we talking, like, a year before? [13:05] Oh, no, not that long. [13:07] It would have been, I'd say, at most a month before this was when he was asking. [13:11] You talked about the note that he left. [13:14] I want to bring this up, and I should say that these text messages that we've been looking at here are Bates number 54, okay? [13:28] The notes have been titled 16.3 with a note, and this is Bates number 58. [13:38] Do you recognize that on the screen there? [13:42] Yeah, yeah. [13:43] What do you recognize it as? [13:44] That was the note under his keyboard that he was referring to in the first text of that chain. [13:52] So where did you find this? [13:54] On his desk, underneath his, like, computer keyboard. [13:59] What, I assume you read it? [14:01] Yeah. [14:02] And then what did you do with it after you read it? [14:05] I believe I just put it back down on the desk after I took a picture of it. [14:09] Okay, and again, the time you read it was probably around 11 o'clock or so on the 10th. [14:15] Yes. [14:16] The night of September 10th. [14:18] And did you ever see that again after you placed it back on his desk? [14:22] No, I don't think I did. [14:24] And that was a desk in his bedroom? [14:27] Yes. [14:28] And that's a separate bedroom than your bedroom? [14:30] Yeah. [14:32] And now I want to go to what's been titled 16.2, and do you recognize this series of messages here? [14:43] Yeah, that was the server of, like, his friend that I was mentioning. [14:50] Okay, and this is your phone again? [14:52] Uh, yeah. [14:53] And I'm assuming you recognize it because of the big crack up at the top? [14:56] Mm-hmm. [14:58] And so this is a server, is this Discord? [15:01] Yeah, this is Discord. [15:03] And who are members of this server? [15:07] I don't want names, just generally. [15:08] Who are these people? [15:09] This is his friend group. [15:11] They play D&D together every week. [15:14] Okay. [15:15] And I just want to scroll through this to make sure that I get a chance to take a look at it. [15:23] Or go to the next page? [15:24] Mm-hmm. [15:25] Yes. [15:25] So, Tyler Eichem, who's that? [15:28] That's Tyler Robinson. [15:31] And these other people are just others that are members of the server? [15:34] Yes. [15:35] Jug, Barnaby, Marina, DM. [15:38] Mm-hmm. [15:38] Yes. [15:39] Yeah, like DM means Dungeon Master, so these are like, most of them are names they're using [15:45] in the game they're playing currently. [15:47] Got it. [15:48] Yeah, it looks like the last text from Tyler, it looks like it's 8 p.m., and do you know [15:55] what day this would have been, 8 p.m. on the 10th or the 11th? [15:58] I would think that would be the 11th, at least I think so, because I don't think on the 10th [16:07] that he messaged anyone before me at like 11. [16:12] And he turned himself in on the 11th, right? [16:15] I thought so, yeah. [16:20] We're just going to go through this so that we have a record of the messages. [16:25] Is that an accurate recording of that thread? [16:29] To my knowledge, yes. [16:31] And that was sent, it looks like between September 10th and September 12th, looks like the last [16:37] day on this is September 12th, screen? [16:39] Yes. [16:40] Again, those messages covered from September 10th to the evening of September 11th. [16:45] Now, September 11th, what time did, or did you see Pye Lever on September 11th? [16:55] Yes. [16:55] When did you first see him on September 11th? [16:57] So this is the day after the shooting? [16:59] Yeah, I saw him when I woke up. [17:01] Like I said, he was up and around doing a lot of stuff around the house. [17:08] And then I think I saw him after that message where I said, I'll come home and say I'm doing [17:15] laundry, because I didn't want him going to my parents' house right then when he said there [17:21] was probably cops outside. [17:24] So I went back home, and it was just him there, and I said bye to him, and then he drove off. [17:30] So I just went back to my parents' house. [17:33] So he acted erratically. [17:35] Was he pacing? [17:38] Was he just sitting down, relaxing? [17:40] No, he was walking around a lot. [17:42] And that's within the home? [17:44] Mm-hmm. [17:44] And did he talk about what he had done? [17:51] Didn't go into detail. [17:52] He just, I just asked him in person if what he said was true the night before, and he said [17:58] it was. [18:00] I started crying a little bit and said he wishes he hadn't done it. [18:04] And then kept going around and just doing stuff, I think, to keep himself busy or distracted [18:13] or something. [18:14] Okay. [18:15] So he talked about what he was going to do next. [18:18] And then eventually said that he would talk to his parents or turn himself over. [18:24] Okay. [18:26] And when you left, was that how you left understanding that he was going to turn himself in or go to [18:32] his parents' house? [18:33] Yeah. [18:34] And I didn't really want to be at our apartment while any of that was happening, regardless [18:38] of what went down. [18:40] Okay. [18:41] Okay. [18:42] Before he came home, had you seen the press releases, any of the media on this? [18:48] I'd seen one Instagram, like, link a friend of mine had sent in our group chat, but I hadn't [18:58] really looked into it at all. [19:00] And had you seen the images that were released of the suspect? [19:04] I did the next day. [19:06] I don't think I saw any on the tech. [19:11] I'm going to show you a couple of those images. [19:14] I'm on the FBI's website. [19:16] You can see the URL there at the top. [19:19] This is a press release about this event. [19:21] And here on the screen, you see these, there's, looks like there's two rows of three images. [19:29] Mm-hmm. [19:30] Do you recognize the person in these images? [19:33] I wouldn't say with 100% certainty just because of camera quality, but that looks like him [19:40] in terms of the shoes he's wearing, the sunglasses. [19:43] I don't think I'd specifically seen him wearing that hat, but he was usually wearing a hat. [19:49] And then jeans. [19:50] So, it definitely, especially the bottom, the last two, definitely do look like him. [20:02] Oh, they do look like Tyler Robinson. [20:05] And you talked about that with your friends, right? [20:11] The same with him. [20:13] His friends, yeah. [20:14] I don't, I don't know if I talked, I don't remember if I talked about it with any of my friends. [20:20] Um, and then since I didn't have my phone after that for a while and I still am not using social media, I don't, I don't know. [20:27] Uh, on my friend's end. [20:30] Okay. [20:31] Um, all right. [20:33] I want to back up a little bit now. [20:34] We've talked about September 10th, but let me get a little bit of, um, context here. [20:38] So, um, did you game with Tyler? [20:42] Uh, yeah. [20:43] What kind of games? [20:44] Um, we played some just kind of party games together, like stuff, anything that would be multiplayer with a group of friends. [20:53] Uh, there was one game he really liked called Sea of Thieves where he plays like a pirate. [20:58] And you can, uh, you can fight against people, but most of it's just like fishing, fighting sharks, skeletons kind of stuff. [21:06] Um, we played some co-op games where it's like, uh, you both have to work together to win in whatever way. [21:14] Uh, way back when, like when I was just out of high school, when I, uh, first knew him online, we played some like shooting games together, but I, I didn't know him very well. [21:26] So that was just when we had like a whole friend group on to play and he was someone that my friends invited. [21:31] Okay. [21:32] Um, did you and he ever talk about politics? [21:34] Um, he did more than me. [21:37] Uh, I, I didn't really, still don't really keep up with politics very much. [21:43] Uh, he'd usually talk about stuff he heard on the radio on his drive to work and like their work car, since it sounds like, uh, their whole crew went in the same car most of the time. [21:54] But, uh, I wouldn't say super consistently because it wasn't a topic I really contributed much on. [22:02] How about Charlie Kirk? Did he ever talk about Charlie Kirk? [22:05] I, I personally had never heard him talk about Charlie Kirk before specifically. [22:09] Okay. Um, how about, um, political issues? So did you ever talk about gender identity issues and LGBTQ rights? [22:21] Uh, no, not, not really. Um, uh, usually if he did talk about politics stuff, it was, uh, relating to Trump or current like policies being, uh, like issued or voted, voted on, I think. [22:39] But, uh, yeah. [22:42] Okay. So before that you have been? [22:44] Mm-hmm. For a, uh, for a short time, yes. [22:46] Okay. And, um, I understand you're going by Luna at some point? [22:51] Uh, to some people, yeah, but not as an overall thing. [22:55] That's all the questions I have for this portion. Uh, let me check and see if I've missed anything. [23:00] Um, the Dremel that you talked about and, uh, so did you have a Dremel then? [23:06] Yeah. [23:06] Okay. [23:07] Uh, it was in our, like, we had a, our apartment, we had a section where we kept all our, like, random tools for household stuff, uh, in our, like, uh, lower basement level pantry. [23:18] Um, so, yeah. [23:19] Okay. And did you give that to him or tell him where it was? [23:22] I just told him where it was, yeah. [23:23] Yeah. Okay. I'm going to go ahead and end the recording for the 1102 purposes. [23:33] Now, part of that conversation that was blacked out was text messages and a note and, uh, about, he talked about the note he found under the keyboard that Tyler wrote to him, but also text messages. [23:47] And I'm going to play you those text messages. [23:49] So I, I wanted to show them to you, you know, one by one, but I think it's better. [23:53] They're on the screen here and I'm going to let the agent read them again. [23:56] I'm going to play it for you in full. [23:58] Well, there is profanity just a heads up. [24:01] There's an F word, at least one, a couple of S words, uh, the, and this is the back and forth between Robinson and twigs after twig, after twigs was informed by Robinson that he had shot Charlie Kirk again, the full exchange here. [24:19] It is where it begins Wednesday, 11 PM. [24:22] Will you start reading underneath that? [24:24] Yes. [24:24] Um, so this would have been, uh, from, from Tyler. [24:28] So let's drop what you're doing, look under your keyboard. [24:31] And I'm, I apologize. [24:32] Let me stop you there. [24:33] How do you know that this, that message would have been from Tyler Robinson? [24:36] Uh, that's just, so any of the messages in gray would be from Tyler and message in blue would be from, uh, from Lance. [24:43] It's just the way the iPhone, uh, just distinguishes the messages and also Lance, uh, Lance in his interview also acknowledges that who was saying what. [24:54] And up at the top, who do we see that this thread is, is between? [24:59] Uh, uh, Tyler. [25:00] All right, sorry to interrupt you, uh, so, so read that again starting from look under the keyboard. [25:06] Uh, so, so, uh, after that, then Lance responds. [25:11] He says, what, and then he says, you're joking, right? [25:15] And then Tyler says, fuck, I tried to delete that. [25:19] If we could scroll down to page two, and if you can continue reading along. [25:28] Okay, uh, and Tyler says, I'm still okay, my love, but I'm stuck in Orym for a little while longer yet. [25:34] Shouldn't be long until I can come home, but gotta grab my rifle still. [25:39] To be honest, I had hoped to keep this secret till I died of old age. [25:43] I am sorry to involve you. [25:45] And then Lance replies, you weren't the one who did it right? [25:50] And Tyler says, I am, I'm sorry. [25:53] And then Lance says, I thought they caught the person. [25:57] And then Tyler says, no, they grabbed some crazy old dude and interrogated someone in similar clothing. [26:03] I had planned to grab my rifle from the drop point shortly after, but most of that side got, side of town got locked down. [26:11] It's quiet almost enough to get out, but there's one vehicle lingering. [26:15] If we could scroll down to page three, continue reading. [26:21] Uh, Lance says, why? [26:23] And Tyler says, why did I do it? [26:26] And Lance says, yeah. [26:27] Tyler says, I had enough of his hatred. [26:30] Some hate can't be negotiated out. [26:33] If I'm able to grab, to grab my rifle unseen, I will have left no evidence. [26:38] Going to attempt to retrieve it again. [26:40] Hopefully they have moved on. [26:42] I haven't seen anything in the news about them finding it. [26:45] We'll update you shortly, or shortly, we'll update you by midnight. [26:49] And then Lance says, all right, stay safe. [26:52] How long have you been planning this? [26:54] Scroll down a little bit, please, Kimberly. [26:57] And Tyler replies, a bit over a week, I believe. [27:00] I can get close to it, but there is a squad car parked right by it. [27:04] I think they already swept that spot, but I don't want to chance it. [27:08] We can scroll down to page four and continue reading about halfway down. [27:16] I'll stop you about halfway down. [27:18] It says, while they were a spot, but I don't want to chance it, while they were parked there. [27:22] If they had found it, I imagine there would be more commotion. [27:26] Again, I'm sorry for roping you into all of this. [27:29] You shouldn't have to worry about this. [27:31] And Lance replies, does anyone else know? [27:34] Tyler says, not to my knowledge. [27:36] All right, I'll stop you there. [27:39] Let's move to page five. [27:41] So this should be page four, so just scroll down one, please, Kimberly. [27:45] And if you could read starting, sorry, Kimberly, scroll a bit more down. [27:56] If you could read, I don't know, about one third of the way up that starts with guess. [28:03] Okay. [28:06] Um, Tyler says, guess, I'm, guess I'm just sitting in my car watching reels for another hour, hoping this guy fucks off. [28:15] And continue, continue. [28:18] And Lance says, are you okay still? [28:20] And Tyler says, yes, check and spot again now. [28:24] We'll. [28:25] I'm sorry, now we're on page six, continue reading. [28:29] Uh, we'll update soon. [28:30] He continues, the squad car was moved further away, enough that I should be able to move in. [28:36] I backed off because I thought I heard footsteps, maybe a foot patrol, but the crickets here are so fucking loud. [28:42] Gonna see if the, if the road closer to campus is open so I can drive past and check shit out. [28:49] Probably still closed off though. [28:51] Getting worried, hard to know for sure, but I'm not finding my rifle. [28:55] Could be in the wrong spot. [28:56] Lance says, do you, you think they found it? [29:01] And Tyler says, dunno, they haven't published anything if they have. [29:05] And then Lance says, why did you leave it behind? [29:08] Oh, sorry. Kimberly, if you could scroll down. [29:16] Originally. [29:17] Also, does it have a serial number? [29:19] We could scroll to page seven and I'll continue reading. [29:27] I'll, I'll stop you on this page in a little bit. [29:30] Okay. [29:31] Uh, so Tyler continues, uh, uh, ID, E.K. [29:37] If I had, uh, if it had a serial number but it wouldn't trace to me, I worry about prints. [29:43] I had to leave it in a, in a bush where I changed outfits. [29:47] Didn't have the ability or time to bring it with. [29:49] And stop there, please. [29:50] And then if we could go to the next page, page eight. [29:53] And if you could start at the top. [29:59] Okay, so Lance says, was your change of clothes there or was that also gone? [30:05] Or did you bring those with you originally? [30:08] Anyway, you could replace the gun or would he notice? [30:13] And then Tyler says, only thing I left was the rifle wrapped in a towel. [30:18] I'll bet that canine sniffed it out. [30:20] Uh, little snitching bastard. [30:23] Replace it? [30:24] Unlikely. [30:25] I don't fully know what the gun was because it was old as shit and Gramps did some modifying. [30:30] There was a four digit serial, serial on it. [30:33] God only knows who it's registered to. [30:36] Hopefully, some dead guy who gave it to Grandpa. [30:39] And he continues, remember how I was engraving bullets. [30:43] The fucking messages are mostly a big meme. [30:46] If I see notices, uh, bulge, UWU on Fox News, I might have a stroke. [30:52] And then continue, I'll, I'll stop you in a moment. [30:56] Says, alright, I'm gonna have to leave it. [30:59] That really fucking sucks. [31:00] Let me stop you there. [31:01] And then if we could go on to the next page, page nine. [31:05] And do you see the, the first blue message we see on page nine? [31:12] Uh, can you start there? [31:14] Yes. [31:15] Uh, so Lance says, do you need it for hunting? [31:20] And Tyler says, no, my dad wanted to use it, to use a high caliber for the rifle hunt. [31:25] Judging from today, I say, Gramps gun does just fine, IDK. [31:30] I think that was a two, a two case scope. [31:33] Uh, Lance says, geez. [31:36] And then Tyler says, OMW home, uh, 3.5 hours. [31:42] Lance says, drive safe. [31:44] And then Tyler says, delete this exchange. [31:47] Now, Robinson sent his last text to a discord group chat. [31:52] These are gamer friends. [31:53] Discord is a server where you go on, you have gamer names. [31:56] There are screen names and you play games with other people who have similar interests. [32:00] This was one hour before he turned himself into the sheriff's office around nine o'clock [32:05] on September 11th, the day after the shooting. [32:08] Uh, several minutes of twigs testimony was, was talking about those discord thread messages. [32:13] If you weren't in the courtroom, we didn't hear them. [32:15] So I, again, I was not in the courtroom today. [32:17] And so I didn't hear that. [32:19] Uh, but it was talking about the note that he left under the, the keyboard. [32:23] Do you recognize this? [32:25] I do. [32:26] What is this? [32:27] This, uh, is a handwritten note or letter, uh, from Tyler to Lance. [32:32] How do you know that? [32:33] Uh, in Lance's first interview with FBI, he tells them about this, uh, letter or note [32:41] he found under Tyler's keyboard per a text message he received. [32:45] Um, he states from, you know, 11 PM on September 10th. [32:50] Um, and so at that point, uh, Lance finds this, this is the letter he finds under that keyboard. [32:56] Okay. [32:58] So to clarify, Mr. Twiggs gets a text from Mr. Robinson around 11 PM on September 10th telling him to look under his keyboard. [33:06] Yes, correct. [33:07] And this is, uh, what Mr. Twiggs represented was underneath the keyboard. [33:12] Yes. [33:13] Yes. [33:18] How did law enforcement get this photograph? [33:21] So, uh, following Lance's first interview, um, at St. George PD, his phone is, uh, recovered at that point, taken into evidence. [33:30] It is, uh, downloaded, I believe it was the following day or shortly after that, um, the FBI transported that phone to the RCFL, [33:39] which is the Regional Computer Forensic Laboratory, um, in Salt Lake City. [33:43] The phone was downloaded, uh, through Celebrite. [33:46] And, um, after that, following that download was, that was complete, uh, uh, SBI received, uh, uh, a flash drive containing that download. [33:58] Um, from there it went to a SIAC analyst to go through that data of his phone to look for any pertinent evidence or information that may be on there. [34:10] And at that point, um, that this image of this letter was, uh, uh, located. [34:18] The last text that Robinson sent to twigs was him telling him to say, stay quiet, quiet if contacted by the police and also giving him the name of his attorney. [34:29] In fact, he said, ask for an attorney and reach out to this guy and he'll be in touch with you. [34:35] Uh, then the prosecutor said, can you identify Mr. Robinson in the courtroom? [34:43] And he of course pointed to the defense table and guess what? [34:47] The defense had no questions for Davis, none. [34:52] None. [34:53] They didn't cross-examine him at all. [34:55] And I think it's probably because we were running up against a time crunch. [34:59] Uh, they had a witness that had to go on today. [35:02] And so they did not question this witness. [35:05] The next witness was Sergeant Jennifer Faimanu. [35:09] Now, by the way, if you want to go back and read the texts, I put them all on my Facebook page, Nate Eaton Reporter. [35:15] They're also on YouTube and the whole video with twigs. [35:18] Those are available. [35:19] You can go watch those if you want to watch it again. [35:21] Uh, Sergeant Faimanu, I'm sorry. [35:26] F-A-U-M-U-I-N-A. [35:28] She works for the State Bureau of Investigation. [35:30] You may recall the other day, she took the stand. [35:32] She was back on there today. [35:34] She talked about processing the scene at UVU and the prints that were gathered on the rooftop of the Loci Center. [35:42] And then, um, what was interesting is there were prints on the windows. [35:48] Well, actually, let me talk, let me, let me have her talk about the, uh, prints gathered on the rooftop of the area where they say Tyler Robinson shot Charlie Kirk. [35:58] What types of evidence were found on the rooftop? [36:01] Uh, one item of evidence that that was found was a screwdriver. [36:05] Another one would have been the, what we believe was the shooter's perch. [36:09] Um, that was determined based, or that was easy to see at night, um, using oblique lighting. [36:15] We could see disturbances in the gravel on the rooftop. [36:19] And then on the northeast edge, our team also found some swipes on the ledge of that rooftop that was also collected. [36:28] Okay, so northeast ledge, and is this the dropping off point? [36:34] Yes, it is. [36:35] You said swipes. [36:37] What does that mean, swipes? [36:38] Swipes is, um, I would describe it as kind of, um, hand marks or any type of marks that that is left by something that causes some type of disturbance. [36:46] And where on the ledge were those located? [36:51] Those were located right on the edge of that, uh, uh, sorry, excuse me, right on the edge of that rooftop. [37:01] And then right below, we also had some other swipes as well, as well as some other impressions. [37:06] And then below that was a glass window where we also located some latent prints. [37:13] Okay. [37:15] I want to return to the, uh, the, what you've referred to as the perch, the sniper position. [37:22] Were measurements taken from that sniper position to the tent where Charlie Kirk was seated? [37:28] Yes. [37:29] Do you know the distance? [37:30] Yeah. [37:31] So, the distance from the perch area directly to the tent where Mr. Kirk was sitting, you know, was approximately 415 feet. [37:38] Um, if you take into, and this, if you break it down, so from the perch to the tent, you're looking at us basically like this. [37:47] And this is the perch, and this is the tent. [37:49] And now you're describing, I'm sorry, I have to make a record. [37:51] You're describing an angle, a slope downward from the perch to the location of the tent. [37:55] Is that accurate? [37:56] Yes, I am. [37:57] Okay, go ahead. [37:58] Yeah, so the angle, um, so again, the distance, the perch to the tent was approximately 415 feet. [38:04] If you think about it, or without taking into account the elevation drop, it was actually 410 feet. [38:10] So just horizontal straight across. [38:12] And then the elevation difference between, or between that is approximately 68 feet. [38:18] 400 feet, 410 feet from the perch to the tent with a 68 foot vertical drop. [38:26] Is that right? [38:28] The state then turned to evidence gathered in that wooded area right across the street from campus. [38:32] If you want to see it, I did a tour yesterday. [38:34] You can go see it. [38:35] She goes into detail about how the rifle was wrapped in a towel and how it was discovered. [38:40] And images were shown to the court and the media. [38:43] We were able to see them all along with the engraved bullets. [38:46] Here is what those engravings said. [38:49] Was anything of evidentiary value found in the wooded area? [38:52] Yes, in the wooded area, a right, I feel that was wrapped in a dark colored towel was found there. [39:00] And how did you learn about that? [39:02] I found that out because, uh, just a little bit before 6 p.m. [39:06] That day I received a call from Utah County Sheriff's Office who was tasked with searching that area. [39:12] Do you know why they searched that area in the first place? [39:15] Yeah, so they searched that area because I received a video that was from the UVU security footage. [39:22] Um, this was received by our command post on scene. [39:26] And it showed, um, who we believe was the shooter on the roof top run from the southwest corner all the way to the northeast corner. [39:35] Jump down and then continue to the northeast side of that campus and then cross the street to campus drive. [39:43] And then he was, or this aspect was out of camera's view after that. [39:48] Okay, so he ran basically toward and into that wooded area. [39:51] Yes. [39:52] Yes, what we are looking at here is actually the bushes where the dark colored towel and the gun were found. [39:58] Um, you can kind of see the dark colored towel towards the right hand side of the screen in the middle, right middle. [40:05] Kimberly, can you zoom in to that area please? [40:07] All right, is this a better view of the towel? [40:11] Yes, it is. [40:12] Will you describe what we see here? [40:14] Yeah, so what you see here now is the dark colored towel and a, the rifle that is in the towel and it is in a cardboard box. [40:22] Uh, why is the towel still around the gun? [40:24] We want it to document as to how it was found. [40:27] All right, let's go to 10.3. [40:31] Is this the rifle? [40:39] Yes, it is. [40:40] You described, uh, making the rifle safe. [40:44] Will you describe what that is? [40:46] Yeah, so what that is is that we ensure that there isn't anything in the chamber and that there's no other cartridges in the gun. [40:52] That would have it go off. [40:54] So to do that, because it is a bolt action gun, we would have to manipulate the bolt or the lever back and then from there see if anything was in the chamber and then, um, I would say carefully remove anything that was in the chamber and below it. [41:11] Do you notice an inscription or an etching on this cartridge case? [41:16] Yes, I do. [41:17] Will you read what that says? [41:18] Yes. [41:19] Notices bulge. [41:20] And if we can go down to page two of the exhibit, will you read what this says? [41:27] O-W-O, what's? [41:29] And to page three? [41:30] This. [41:33] And question mark, correct? [41:34] Yes, question mark. [41:35] All right, if we go to States Exhibit 20, is this a photograph of one of the cartridges that was found in the gun? [41:56] Yes, it is. [41:57] And what are we looking at here in this view of page one on Exhibit 20? [42:01] This is the head stamp of it and it says it is a, or according to the head stamp, it is a Remington 30-06 Springfield. [42:08] Is that a different caliber than a .223 round? [42:13] Yes, it is. [42:14] Will you look at page two of Exhibit 20? [42:22] Will you read the markings here? [42:25] Hey, fascist. [42:26] And page three? [42:28] Catch. [42:30] And page four? [42:34] Up arrow, right arrow, down arrow, down arrow, down arrow. [42:41] All right, let's go to Exhibit 21. [42:45] And was this another round that was found in the gun? [43:07] Yes. [43:08] Will you read the inscription here? [43:10] Old Bella Chow. [43:12] Page two? [43:13] Chow Chow. [43:16] All right, let's go to Exhibit 22. [43:28] Another round that was found from the gun, correct? [43:30] Yes. [43:31] Will you please read the letters here? [43:33] If you read? [43:34] Page two? [43:36] This comma your, or correction, this comma you are? [43:43] Page three? [43:45] Gay. [43:47] And page four? [43:48] LMAO. [43:50] The sergeant went on to detail findings from the search warrant at Robinson's apartment that he shared with twigs. [43:58] It included a tool that you can use to engrave on things. [44:02] A Dremel tool you can engrave on metal or whatnot. [44:06] They're obviously saying that he had the tool at home and so he engraved himself on the bullet. [44:10] There was Remington ammunition and cartridge cases, a long gun, a revolver, two shoes, both Converse, which the photos that we saw from the university surveillance footage was Converse, and a cartridge that said test shot engraved on it. [44:28] And then they found that Dremel tool used to engrave along with three shooting targets that were inside the closet. [44:36] Looking at states exhibit 25, I'm going to ask the question that's objected to. [44:40] You said there's perforations in those, are those consistent with bullet holes? [44:44] Yes. [44:45] And I want you to, I would ask you to describe where those perforations are on the, there's three targets here, right? [44:58] Yes. [44:59] Let's look at the, let's look at the far right target first. [45:05] Where are the perforations in relation to the bullseye? [45:10] Uh, they're all probably within the seven, six, and eight ring. [45:17] Is there, is there a perforation up at the upper left hand corner of that rightmost target? [45:22] Yes, there is. [45:23] Do any of those hit the bullseye? [45:25] No. [45:26] Okay, looking at the center target, uh, will you describe where the perforations are in, in relation to the bullseye there? [45:35] It's closer, but still not at, um, Momo, most of them are usually, are to the left of the bullseye and rings, let's say, nine and eight. [45:45] All right, and then the leftmost target, will you describe where the perforations are there? [45:49] Yeah, uh, the perforations are also, are actually closer to the bullseye as well, uh, actually one being in it. [45:55] All right, you described also collecting a burnt note. [45:58] Will you describe where that note was found and what it looked like to you? [46:01] Yeah, the burnt note was found in the trash can located in the kitchen. [46:06] Um, the way it looked like to me, it looked like, say, you're at like a campfire and someone burns paper. [46:12] Now, another big DNA reveal, testing on the rifle. [46:16] We didn't know this before, testing on the rifle and the cartridges about what was found, the DNA on those, they were read to the court. [46:23] Listen. [46:24] 1.1 is swabs of the stock and grips of the rifle and then 1.4 is swabs of the bolt of the rifle with possible ridge detail and or smudging. [46:34] Okay. [46:36] Will you read paragraph D? [46:39] Yes. [46:40] The DNA profiles are at least one trillion times more likely if they originated from Tyler Robinson, exhibit 7.1, as a contributor to the major components and three unrelated unknown individuals than if they originated from four unrelated unknown individuals. [46:56] And again, that's swabs of the grips and the bolt, stock and grips and bolt, is that right? [47:01] Yes. [47:02] Okay. [47:04] Number two, calculation number two, where is this swab taken from? [47:08] Exhibit 1.2 would be swabs of the butt plate of the rifle. [47:12] And will you read paragraph D here? [47:17] The DNA profile is at least one trillion times more likely if it originated from Tyler Robinson as a major component and four unrelated unknown individuals than if it originated from five unrelated unknown individuals. [47:32] If we can go to page six. [47:33] Looking at calculation number three, exhibit 1.3. [47:35] What areas were swabbed for this comparison? [47:37] 1.3 is swabs of the trigger and trigger guard of the rifle with possible ridge detail and or smudging. [47:45] We read paragraph D. [47:46] The DNA profile is at least one trillion times more likely if it originated from Tyler Robinson as a major component and three unrelated unknown individuals than if it originated from four unrelated unknown individuals. [48:00] If we can go to page six, calculation number four, exhibits 1.5 and 5.1. [48:11] What are those? [48:12] Sorry. [48:13] 1.5 are swabs of the fore end of the rifle and 5.1 is swabs of one 30-06 cartridge. [48:22] And again, that cartridge came from where? [48:25] From the firearm. [48:26] Will you read paragraph D? [48:30] The DNA profiles are at least one trillion times more likely if they originated from Tyler Robinson as the major components and two unrelated unknown individuals. [48:38] than if they originated from three unrelated unknown individuals. [48:43] The ATF report stated that the rifle and cartridge case were determined to be fired and used in the murder of Charlie Kirk. [48:53] Again, the ATF said that rifle and the cartridge matched and they were used in the crime. [49:00] The cross-examination, they had a couple of questions and that was it. [49:04] She was excused from the court after 10 minutes and then the state rested. [49:08] After four and a half days, almost, sorry, three and a half days, the state rested its case. [49:13] I have talked to many attorneys today who said they could have rested Monday. [49:18] All they needed was this much, but they definitely went above and beyond. [49:21] And I guess they just want to be sure. [49:24] Now, the Kirk family attorney then stood up in court and asked the judge to contested a video. [49:35] Remember that they enhanced video with the zoom ins and the circle? [49:39] We talked about it the other night, how the judge ended up not admitting that. [49:43] But then he admitted the full, well, he didn't show it. [49:47] And then he admitted the whole video zoomed out. [49:50] The Kirk family attorney really wanted this in for the family. [49:56] And they said, sorry, they wanted to see it. [49:59] They wanted it shown so they could see it. [50:01] They said, we have a right to the evidence. [50:03] Well, the defense stood up and had an issue with this. [50:06] And this is what the defense attorney, Robert Novak said. [50:09] At this point in the proceeding, we're asking the court to keep focus on the evidence. [50:12] Keep focus on the purpose of this hearing. [50:16] And as the justice has said in the Estes case, the purpose of a trial, and I know this isn't a trial, [50:23] but the same logic applies, is to determine the defendant's guilt. [50:28] It's not to educate the public or the victim's family or the world on what evidence the government or the state has. [50:36] As the court knows, we have witnessed availability problems. [50:40] We've spent the bulk of today and yesterday arguing about nothing to do with the evidence in the case, [50:48] but with rights of third parties. [50:51] And it's appropriate for the court to consider that. [50:53] But at some point, I think the court has to return to the purpose of these hearings, [50:58] which is to expeditiously hear the evidence and then determine probable cause. [51:05] And I want to point out to the court, Ms. Kirk has been very adept at holding press conferences [51:11] at which she has revealed evidence. [51:14] She has represented that the state is her attorney. [51:19] She has access to all the evidence that the state has publicized and that the media and her own lawyer argues is already in the public domain. [51:30] So they're perfectly free to go outside this courtroom under the court's protective order. [51:37] They're free to go out and hold press conferences and announce to the world outside the courtroom what they think the evidence is. [51:44] They have the availability of that evidence. [51:47] But the court's role, I think, at some point is to exercise some control, move the case forward, [51:52] and especially when we have witness availability problems. [51:56] Well, after that, Kirk's attorney got up and said he's completely misrepresented it. [52:00] We don't have the evidence. [52:01] We haven't seen it. [52:02] After that, the judge said, I'm going to rule on this later. [52:05] We have to get to this witness who flew in from the East Coast to testify, and that's when we met ATF agent Samantha Karner. [52:14] She analyzed the rifle, the ammunition, and the cartridges. [52:17] Remember, she was flown in for the defense. [52:20] So the whole purpose of having her there is the defense was trying to prove those bullet cartridges could have been fired from multiple guns, [52:30] not Tyler Robinson's, but other guns too, and the testing done in the lab is not reliable. [52:37] There's issues with it. [52:38] The defense spent hours questioning her, the validity of the science, the lab testing, the agency's results, [52:45] stating that they can't even determine the difference of where this bullet came from with different weapons. [52:52] As in this case, it was inconclusive, correct? [52:55] Correct. [52:56] Even though the correct answer was that the bullets did not come from the question. [53:06] The two did not match. [53:09] The known in the question should have been an elimination. [53:13] The ground truth answer was yes, they were excluded. [53:16] However, an inconclusive result in this comparison was extremely appropriate. [53:20] The lack of quality and quantity of those individual characteristics never reached sufficient agreement, [53:25] nor did it ever reach sufficient disagreement. [53:28] So saying anything but inconclusive was not appropriate. [53:31] And then it went on and on and on. [53:33] Very scientific testimony. [53:35] If you're into that thing, go watch it. [53:38] But the defense was trying to say and get the witness to say that it's inconclusive, [53:44] that this bullet, these bullets didn't come from the gun and that there's a lot more to it. [53:51] But then the prosecution came back with questions. [53:56] The defense had more. [53:58] We ended up around 530 tonight. [54:01] The witness was excused and there will be one more witness taking the stand tomorrow. [54:04] Now, I want to explain what happens next. [54:06] Before I get to that, I forgot one thing about DNA on the windows of the low C building. [54:10] There was a palm print and some fingerprints that people thought, oh, were those Tyler Robinsons? [54:15] They were tested. [54:16] They were not. [54:17] So there was no, he didn't or he didn't. [54:19] There was no prints. [54:20] And then on enhanced video, they realized he didn't touch the windows when he allegedly came down from the building. [54:26] Okay. [54:27] So normally, well, not normally, but often at the end of a, of a preliminary hearing, [54:34] the judge will rule that there's enough evidence to bank buying the case over. [54:37] It happened with Chad Daybell. [54:39] It had happened in other cases and there, that's it. [54:42] The defense asked for briefing, meaning they want to go and prepare a brief, a motion. [54:47] And they want the judge to then decide. [54:50] And then the prosecution said, if they brief, we brief back and forth. [54:54] So what ended up happening is the prosecution, because it's their burden of proof on Monday, we'll get a court transcript. [55:03] They have two weeks to prepare a brief that can be no longer than 35 pages. [55:08] They wanted 30. [55:09] The defense wanted 40. [55:10] They settled at 35. [55:12] Two weeks after that, the defense, so they have two weeks to prepare their brief. [55:17] The defense then has two weeks to prepare their response. [55:20] The state then has one week to prepare a response to the response. [55:24] Then on September 1st, at 10 o'clock in the morning, argument, oral argument will be held in the courtroom. [55:33] And the judge will then decide if there's enough probable cause to bind this case over. [55:39] So then once that happens, a trial date can be set. [55:43] So no trial date set until at least September 1st. [55:47] I imagine the judge will rule on that day, but you know, this case, who knows? [55:52] When or if this case goes to trial, it might take six months. [55:57] I say that kind of with sarcasm, but kind of with reality because it's taking a while. [56:04] But that that is the wheels of justice. [56:07] And that is how our justice system works. [56:09] And you can't fault it. [56:10] So tomorrow we're back at 830. [56:14] We'll have the live stream up the final witness. [56:16] Then the defense will rest and then we'll be adjourned. [56:20] They said everything should be done by noon. [56:22] We'll be back tomorrow night for another courtroom insider talking about what happens this tomorrow morning. [56:27] And then we'll kind of I'll go through kind of the key points of this week. [56:32] And then we wait and preview ahead next week. [56:35] We've got some really good courtroom insiders coming up. [56:38] So I hope you'll stay tuned with us next week, but I'm jumping ahead of myself. [56:41] So join us tomorrow morning. [56:42] Here's where you can find me. [56:43] I'm on Facebook, Instagram, X and YouTube. [56:46] So many new subscribers this week. [56:48] Thank you all so much for subscribing to us on East Idaho news and our courtroom insider YouTube channel. [56:53] That helps. [56:54] The numbers are going up and I can't thank you enough for supporting us. [56:58] Your support to us allows me to go cover these types of things. [57:01] I was in Provo for two days. [57:03] Everybody's so nice in Provo. [57:05] And thank you for watching. [57:08] Before we go tonight. [57:10] I do want to talk about our a person who is missing every night. [57:14] We try to highlight somebody who is missing to get the word out. [57:17] This is Haley Brian Murphy. [57:20] It's a name. [57:21] Her mother won't let fade. [57:22] She's from Austin, Texas went missing at the age of 22 mother to a young boy. [57:27] She's an army veteran. [57:29] Three years in, she had to be medically discharged from a hip injury. [57:32] She has two siblings. [57:33] The night she went missing was June 16th, 2023. [57:37] Her sister dropped her off at Slick Willie's Bar. [57:40] Then her sister received a call from Haley asking her if she got home okay driving in the rain. [57:45] That was the last call her sister ever received. [57:48] A witness told police they saw her later that night at another bar called Eddie's Tavern in Round Rock. [57:54] That's about 15 miles down from where she started her night out. [57:57] Both times she was seen getting into the same car with the same driver. [58:01] Now Haley's mom is in law enforcement and has relentlessly tried to find her daughter. [58:05] Police say they have made some headway but they need help. [58:10] Haley is five feet tall, short blonde hair, hazel eyes, visible tattoos. [58:14] Make and model of the car or description of the man she was with has not been officially released. [58:19] If you have any information on Haley Brian Murphy, please contact the police. [58:24] Everybody, thank you so much for being here tonight, night four, day four of the Tyler Robinson preliminary hearing. [58:30] We will see you tomorrow.