Budget Hearing – The Department of Defense

[6:24] Defense subcommittee will come to order. Good morning. Today, the subcommittee will convene for [6:36] open hearing to receive testimony from the Honorable Pete Hegseth, Secretary of War, [6:40] General Dan Cain, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Mr. Jay Hurst, performing the duties of [6:47] Undersecretary of War Comptroller. Mr. Secretary, General Cain, and Mr. Hurst, a warm welcome to [6:54] you. Thank you for your service to our great nation, and I thank you for appearing before [6:58] the subcommittee today. I want to first acknowledge the extraordinary demands we place on all our [7:04] volunteer force and the military families who bear the weight of service alongside their loved ones. [7:11] Quality of life and care for our service members and their families are central to our mission to [7:17] continue to ensure the finest fighting force in human history. We owe everything to their sacrifice [7:23] and send our thanks that they have answered the call to serve. This hearing addresses issues that [7:30] are deeply interconnected and collectively define the national security challenge of our time. [7:35] Let me begin with the budget. We want to be good partners with the department to ensure that our [7:41] men and women in uniform have every resource they need, but I have serious concerns about how this [7:46] bifurcated budget splits discretionary and mandatory funding on some of our highest priority programs. [7:54] We have significant gaps in needs for our warfighters that we had to address in the FY26 appropriations [8:01] process because of the way mandatory was requested and enacted. The subcommittee needs to understand how [8:08] the resources requested in this budget translates into real measurable improvements in warfighting [8:14] capability. We also need to understand the consequences of this funding approach. We owe that level of [8:21] accountability to the American taxpayers. Next on readiness, the picture demands our honest attention. Across the [8:29] multiple domains, including munitions, shipbuilding, innovation, and aviation, questions persist about [8:35] whether we are building the depth and reliance required for a high-end conflict. We have made progress [8:42] in some areas. I want to acknowledge the department's efforts to address these questions. However, progress is [8:48] not the same as capability in delivering and capability delivery is what we need at this moment demands. Finally, [8:56] that brings me to the threat environment we currently face. The world has grown more dangerous, more complex, [9:03] and more interconnected in its risks. China is modernizing its military at a pace and scale that [9:09] is alarming. Russia continues to wage a brutal war of aggression, and while Iran and their proxies have been [9:16] dealt a severe blow, they remain a threat. Threats to Taiwan, Ukraine, NATO, Israel, our partners in the Gulf, [9:26] and our allies across the globe are not abstract concerns. They are tests of America's credibility [9:32] and resolve. This subcommittee believes deeply in the power of deterrence, but deterrence must be [9:39] credible and credibility must be funded. Finally, Mr. Secretary, both you and your deputy must be commended [9:46] for your commitment to reforming, modernizing, and prioritizing innovation at the department. [9:52] I've been here a long time. I've watched administrations come and go, and I promise you that there are [9:59] bureaucrats who are trying to wait you out. You must demand accountability at every level of your [10:05] organization to ensure that the change you have demanded is taking place. Your call to move more [10:11] quickly, inject competition, allow new entrants to participate requires rigorous and persistent [10:17] oversight. Otherwise, the forces in the Pentagon will simply snap back to the status quo, which does not [10:24] serve our warfighters or the United States taxpayer. Again, thank you for being here. The members of this [10:31] subcommittee take our oversight responsibilities seriously, and we believe the American people [10:36] deserve straight answers on these consequential questions. I look forward to an honest conversation [10:42] on how we are matching resources to priorities and honoring our commitments to meet the moment. [10:48] Now, I recognize the distinguished ranking member, Mrs. McCollum, for her opening remarks. [10:53] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for your courtesy of extending this, and thank you for your statement. [10:58] We have a lot to discuss. Historical high-budget requests, the cost of the war in Iran. [11:04] Mr. Secretary, I appreciate this year that you opened up a dialogue with Chairman Calvert, myself, [11:09] and with our authorizing Senate colleagues. When we last met, we asked for information to help us [11:14] determine what the department needs to ensure our national security. We are still waiting for the [11:20] information. We've asked several times for a complete update on munition levels, and it has not been [11:25] provided. This lacking of delivery timely information for the committee is appearing to become a pattern. [11:32] We've requested briefings on the status of the funds appropriated for Ukraine. That took six months for us [11:38] to be adequately briefed. The reconciliation bill, which was enacted on July 4th of last year, [11:44] we still need the details of how the funds were allocated and that were not provided to us until a 10-month wait. [11:52] 10 months we waited for that. Details have been provided on Golden Dome, but only $185 billion of [12:01] the program, and that's the initial research and development. We still have no idea what the costs [12:06] are following on for procurement or maintenance of the program. The department must do a better job of [12:12] sharing the information with us. With respect to the war in Iran, Mr. Secretary, I saw your comments in the [12:18] Armed Services Committee. It was disappointing that you referred to members of both parties as defeatists. [12:23] I know you won't bring personalities into this at this hearing, and I will not question your [12:29] patriotism, nor will you question mine. But the cost of this war continues to rise as forces remain in [12:36] the region. The Appropriations Committee has a fiduciary responsibility to the American people, [12:41] so we will ask serious questions that need to be answered. And that's our constitutional duty. [12:46] Chairman Calvert and I have asked for a breakout of funding needs for Operation Epic Fury. [12:51] We need to know the impact of what it's having on the services executing missions beyond the war. [12:58] The department notified us that the standard fuel price for the services has increased from $154 [13:06] to $195 a barrel. That's more we have to pay for fuel. Then there's less money available for [13:13] training and exercise that the services need to perform. And the department does not have enough [13:18] general transport authority to cover these activities without a supplemental. We must [13:23] understand the department what it will do if a supplemental is not sent to the Hill or enacted. [13:28] Now for the 25, excuse me, the 2027 request. The baseline budget, the Department of Defense [13:35] requests over $200 million over last year's enacted level. When combined with the mandatory funding for [13:41] defense requests throughout reconciliation, that's an increase of $400 billion. And that includes military [13:48] construction. Together, that's nearly 44% increase of defense spending over last year. And the president [13:56] proposes a domestic investment cut of $75 billion or 10%. These cuts will have an impact on our national [14:04] security in many ways, particularly cuts to education. The primary concern of the defense budget [14:10] is that the administration split between discretionary funding and the appropriations control, mandatory [14:18] funding that we do not control. Mr. Secretary, the administration is taking an enormous risk by asking [14:24] for $350 billion in priorities through reconciliation. As we told you in our last meeting, reconciliation is [14:30] not the best way to fund the department. Last year, reconciliation created broken glass. Funding holds for vital [14:37] programs that the appropriators had to fix. And that's why we need the information in a timely fashion. [14:42] Most of your mandatory funding requests are for what you call presidential priorities, golden dome, [14:49] drone dominance, munitions, the defense industrial base. What the administration submitted to us for [14:55] these programs was a 28-page document. And that's not enough to properly explain $350 billion in funding. [15:04] These programs will not be completed in one fiscal year, and they will have tails. That will put our [15:09] department and our committee in a very difficult situation next to Congress. Finally, as the chair [15:15] did, I'm going to take this opportunity to thank all of our service members, active duty, national guard, [15:20] and reserve components. They serve with honor and distinction. And I want to especially acknowledge [15:25] those who have served in harm's way, including those who have fallen and who have been injured in [15:29] Operation Epic Fury. Their families need to know that we will never forget them and that they have our [15:36] enduring gratitude and support. Gentlemen, I look forward to your testimony. Mr. Chair, I yield back. [15:41] Thank you, Ms. McCollum. Before we hear from our witness, I'd like to recognize the distinguished [15:45] chairman of the full committee, my good friend, Chairman Tom Cole, for any opening comments. [15:51] Thank you, Chairman Calvert, Ranking Member McCollum, my good friend, Ranking Member Rosa DeLore, and all the members here. And [15:58] welcome, Mr. Secretary and General Kane to the committee. And we appreciate all of you, [16:03] and certainly you as well, Under Secretary Hurst. I didn't mean to leave you out there. [16:09] I joined Chairman Calvert and members of the subcommittee by saying at the outset of this hearing, [16:14] the men and women of our armed forces are the finest in the world. They deserve our full support [16:19] and our commitment to giving them the resources they need that will keep them ready for the fights of [16:24] today and tomorrow. Without hesitation, I recognize that a strong, agile, and effectively funded [16:30] defense is not a mere priority. It is a necessity. The current threat environment facing the United [16:36] States is as serious and as layered as anything I have witnessed during my time in Congress. The [16:42] convergence of challenges from China, Russia, North Korea, and Iran demands that we all work together [16:49] with a level of seriousness and urgency that frankly has not always characterized our defense debates in [16:55] recent years. On the budget, I firmly believe that adequate and stable defense funding is a national [17:01] imperative. And yet funding alone is not enough. Every dollar must reflect clear priorities, operational [17:08] effectiveness, and strategic urgency. The subcommittee has a responsibility to ask hard questions about [17:14] priorities, program performances, and whether the department's acquisition processes are keeping [17:21] pace with the speed at which our adversaries are moving. To that end, I certainly associate myself [17:29] with Chairman Calvert's concerns about a bifurcated funding of the Department of Defense. We have [17:35] questions on the assumption of mandatory funding in the department's request. We need you to be a partner [17:41] with us on this front. Transparency and communication are critical to ensuring that we are aligned as [17:46] closely as we can be with your needs. And frankly, I do worry in the future, and I hope you address this [17:53] in your remarks, this is the second reconciliation package for defense, and that creates clips for this [18:00] committee in the future. At some point, that funding disappears, and we would have a massive increase in [18:05] discretionary funding to sustain it. So how we do that going forward, when we do that, is a major concern [18:12] for this committee, certainly for me personally. I also want to speak directly about the issue of our [18:18] allies and partners. American power is most effective when it's exercised in concert with like-minded [18:24] nations who share our interests and our values. As we look back on 250 years of our exceptional history, [18:31] the truth of that statement is apparent over and over. From those who stood by us in our fight for [18:39] independence to the shared mission against evil during World War II, tyranny falls when free nations [18:46] stand together. America first has never meant America alone. American strength is not diminished when [18:53] allies shoulder their share. It's multiplied, and we must continue to sharpen our strategic advantages. [19:00] And I commend you for working to make sure that our partners are beginning to step forward. [19:06] NATO remains a critical pillar of collective defense, while our alliances across the Indo-Pacific [19:13] are indispensable to building a creditable deterrent against rising aggression in that region. [19:19] I'm interested today in hearing how this budget strengthens those partnerships and how the [19:23] department's working to ensure that our allies are investing at levels commensurate with the threats [19:29] that they, as well as we, face together. The bottom line is simple. We always hope for peace while [19:35] maintaining the strength to defend it. We're committed to ensuring our military remains unmatched, our [19:41] adversaries deterred, and the American people protected. Secretary Hegsup and General Klein, we look forward to [19:48] your candid dialogue. The American people are counting on us to get this right. I look forward to being a [19:54] partner with you in that effort. Again, I thank you for being here today, and I thank you all for your [19:58] distinguished service to our country. With that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would [20:03] like to turn now to the Ranking Member of the full committee, Mr. Loro, for any opening comments. [20:10] Thank you very much, Chairman Calvert and Ranking Member McCollum, and good to be with you, Chairman Cole, [20:15] and Secretary Hegseth, and General Kaine, and Under Secretary Hurst. Welcome to the committee. [20:21] The President is requesting $1.5 trillion in defense funding for the coming fiscal year. [20:29] $1.5 trillion is an extraordinary sum of money. Congress and the American people have concerns [20:36] about what you plan to do with this money. In fact, we have concerns about what you are doing with the [20:43] more than $1 trillion you already have from last year's appropriations and reconciliation bills. How much [20:51] will the President's, quote, skirmish in CENTCOM cost? I know at a recent hearing, $25 billion was cited, [20:59] but we don't know what that includes or for what time period. This was only supposed to last six weeks. [21:06] We have thus far been unable to get any reliable information as to the true cost of this war. [21:13] The current ceasefire is tenuous at best, with attacks on Gulf nations happening just over the weekend. [21:24] The President tweeted he will not support the latest communication from Iran, which we might agree with [21:31] if we knew what was in it. But there has been a consistent lack of transparency since this war began. [21:39] Media reports suggest there is intelligence that indicates Iran can survive for months [21:44] at the current standoff, which means the cost of deployment of 50,000 service personnel [21:51] with their equipment will only increase, as every additional day this war goes on brings with it [21:59] additional costs. This administration has not presented Congress with any kind of clear or coherent [22:06] strategy. Week to week, day to day, hour to hour, the rationale shifts, the objectives change. [22:15] The end game is ill-defined when it is defined at all. If the administration intends to ask Congress [22:22] for supplemental funding for the Iran War, then you need to come back to Congress and testify on that [22:28] request specifically so that we and the American people can fully understand what this administration [22:36] has gotten us into and how it plans to get us out of it. The question must be answered at the end of this [22:44] crisis. What have we accomplished and at what cost? And before you come to the Congress for additional [22:51] emergency funding, we need information. Has the department or any of the services utilized mandatory [22:57] funding for operational activities in CENTCOM? If so, how much and from what accounts? If you can provide [23:05] us with that breakout, it would be enormously helpful. And again, what is the department's estimate of the [23:11] full cost of the operation against Iran to date? The $1 trillion allocated for fiscal year 2026, [23:23] $1.5 trillion requested for fiscal year 2027, and possibly $25 billion for an upcoming supplemental, [23:33] all as the total debt in the United States has reached 100% of gross domestic product. In other words, [23:41] the national debt is now larger than the U.S. economy and about twice the historic average, [23:48] according to the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget. The defense budget includes requested funding [23:56] for the expanded Golden Dome for America at $185 billion, though those budget numbers are tenuous, [24:04] a new golden fleet in which three ships are estimated to cost $43 billion, and billions for private equity [24:13] ventures, which do not have well-defined processes or sufficient transparency. With gas prices and inflation [24:21] numbers increasing, the American people just want to afford the basic necessities for everyday life. But [24:28] this administration is not doing anything to help them with the cost of living crisis. In fact, the [24:36] administration is making the problem worse by proposing dramatic cuts across the board to domestic [24:42] programs that support American families. We have the most powerful military in the history of humankind. [24:51] I am extraordinarily grateful, as my other colleagues have pointed out, to the men and women of our [24:57] armed services who sacrifice everything to keep us safe. Their devotion to duty is exemplary, [25:06] and it must be matched by the seriousness and the sobriety of those at the very top of the chain of [25:13] command. And right now, I worry if that standard is being met. I look forward to your testimonies today, [25:21] and hearing the answers to this committee's questions shortly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, [25:25] and I yield back. Thank the Ranking Member. We'll now begin witness testimony. Gentlemen, [25:29] without objection, your full written testimony will be placed in the record. Secretary Heckseff, [25:34] we begin with you for a brief summary of your remarks. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. [25:40] Ranking Member, distinguished members of the Committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify [25:45] in full support of president trump's historic 1.5 trillion fiscal year 2027 budget for the [25:51] department of war the president's budget requests reflects the urgency of the moment as was mentioned [25:58] by many addressing both the deferment of long-standing problems as well as positioning [26:04] our forces for the current and future fight i'm honored to appear alongside general dan kane [26:10] chairman of the joint chiefs of staff and jay hurst our chief financial officer and i'd like to [26:15] start by thanking this committee and congress for your partnership in securing the investments [26:21] needed for a stronger and more secure america a nation's ability to build to innovate and to [26:28] support the critical needs of its war fighters at speed and at scale is the foundation upon which [26:34] its survival rests however upon taking office on january 20th of 2025 president trump inherited a [26:42] defense industrial base that had been hollowed out by years of america last policies resulting in a [26:49] diminished capability and capacity to project strength offshoring outsourcing cost overruns [26:57] degraded capabilities under the leadership of president trump our builder in chief we are [27:04] reversing this systemic decay and putting our defense industrial base back on a wartime footing [27:10] urgency informs everything we do at this department we are rebuilding a military that the american people [27:17] can be proud of one that instills nothing less than the unrelenting fear in our adversaries and [27:22] confidence in our allies we fight to win in every scenario the 1.5 trillion dollar budget request put [27:31] forward by the president will build upon the historic 1 trillion fy26 top line and will continue to reverse [27:38] the four years of underinvestment and mismanagement of the biden administration the 1.5 trillion dollar budget [27:46] will ensure the united states continues to maintain the world's most powerful and capable military [27:51] as we grapple with a complex threat environment across multiple theaters not to mention the budget also [27:58] includes a historic troop pay increase a building on the pay increases this committee has given and the budget [28:04] eliminates all poor or failing barracks quality of life for our troops is front and center in this budget [28:12] by supercharging our industrial capacity and transforming how the department does business [28:18] we are restoring american commercial dominance at a pace unseen in generations transforming the defense [28:25] industrial base from the broken slow-moving systems of the past we have flipped the pentagon acquisition [28:32] process from a bureaucratic model to a business model decisively moving from an acquisition environment [28:38] paralyzed by bureaucratic red tape into an outcomes driven organization focused on delivering the most [28:44] for taxpayer dollars and mr chairman you're right it's a war of attrition against the pentagon bureaucracy [28:49] every single day and we intend to win it over the past year through historic multi-year procurement [28:55] agreements smart business deals we have sent ambiguous demand signals to our industry partners to build [29:02] more and build faster the result has been a surge a revitalization of our great american factories [29:10] and massive reinvestment in the skilled american workers who serve as the industrial muscle [29:15] behind our warriors let me briefly provide you with some concrete high-level metrics of what we've [29:21] accomplished over the last few months these are announced new facilities and investments to support [29:27] american war fighters the department has helped stimulate more than 250 private investment deals [29:33] in 39 states in 180 cities in 150 different companies worth more than 50 billion dollars this has resulted [29:41] in 280 new and expanded facilities more than 18 million new square feet of american manufacturing and more [29:49] than 70 000 new american jobs these 50 billion dollars in defense investments in new plants assembly lines [29:58] and factories are private investments not taxpayer dollars by completely transforming our department's [30:05] business model american companies are investing in america with their own capital a historic demonstration [30:11] of american manufacturing and defense revitalization all with their money not uncle sam's this has never [30:18] been done before and is long overdue from a bureaucratic model to a business model these investments equal great things for america [30:27] american families and american workers and help us ensure our war fighters can defend this great country [30:34] together with the help of the policy updates and appropriations passed by congress president trump's [30:40] war department has begun to turn the lights back on in manufacturing towns across this country to [30:45] forge a lethal arsenal of freedom where our critical supply chains are threatened the department of war has [30:51] acted decisively to inject capital stimulate production and prevent adversarial exploitation we are [30:58] firing up the american economic engine at every level of the defense industrial base every policy we [31:05] pursue every budgetary item we request serves to ensure that this department remains laser focused on [31:11] increasing lethality and survivability of our fighting force from the front lines the factory floors this [31:18] is admittedly a historic budget it is a fiscally responsible budget and it is a war fighting budget under [31:27] president trump we are restoring the unbreakable might of american manufacturing that we will need for [31:32] generations we are providing for our war fighters and we are putting the people and interests of [31:37] this country first may almighty god continue to watch over all of our troops and may we honor the legacy of [31:45] those brave americans that we've lost that is our sacred mission that we will continue to execute on [31:52] thank you again to this committee for your partnership and we look forward to answering your questions [31:56] thank you thank you mr secretary general kane you're now recognized for your remarks chairman calvert [32:01] ranking member mccullum chairman cole ranking member delauro thank you for having me and all the members [32:07] of the committee thank you for having me i'm honored here today uh to testify alongside the honorable pete [32:13] hegseth and the honorable jay hurst on the president's fiscal year 2027 budget and i'm grateful for the [32:19] opportunity to speak about the foundations of america's strength the 2.8 million members of our joint [32:26] force i am continually inspired by the soldiers sailors airmen marines guardians coast guardsmen [32:34] guardsmen and civilians standing the watch for our nation supported each and every day by their [32:38] families they could have chosen anything in their path of service but they chose to serve our great [32:45] country and meet our nation's challenge what challenge is with courage tenacity and grit that's [32:50] keeping our nation strong and safe i would also like to express my deep gratitude for [32:56] the 40 members of the joint force who we've lost in operations combat in training during my time as [33:04] chairman including 14 who passed during operation epic fury and our most recent loss first lieutenant key [33:11] who valiantly gave his life trying to save a teammate while deployed on a temporary duty assignment in [33:17] africa and we continue to hold hope for his teammate the secretary and i are deeply grateful for each of them [33:24] and their families and their names will never be forgotten as chairman my duty is to ensure our [33:29] civilian leadership has a comprehensive range of options military options alongside the associated [33:36] risk to make the nation's hardest and most complex decisions i owe the president the secretary and the [33:43] congress the truth at every turn and my blueprint for this approach has always been general george c marshall [33:49] his firm commitment to civilian control and a non-partisan military remains my constant standard and i [33:56] strive to follow his example by working with each of you to and providing clear and candid non-partisan [34:04] military advice and to present this committee with the clearest possible assessment of operational risk [34:11] and readiness and executability within the unclassified environment that we find ourselves in today [34:18] as the chairman said we're operating in a delicate and dangerous time global risk is scaling and the [34:24] complexities of the modern battlefield demand america's constant adaptation and innovation america's [34:33] joint force is operational at its core purpose built for the realities of a complex world were organized [34:40] trained and equipped to execute the most demanding missions across the globe with unrivaled precision [34:47] and over the last year our war fighters have consistently demonstrated exactly what it means to be the most capable [34:56] adaptable and professional military on earth we are able to accomplish this highly complicated work because [35:04] we draw from a deep enduring reservoir of training professionalism and commitment our ops tempo is high [35:13] but we're designed to sustain it rebuilding our strength continuously we rebuild readiness every [35:20] day we train every day we learn and sharpen our edge every day and driving this pace and of change [35:27] and maintaining our superiority requires timely predictable and sustained investment and a partnership with [35:34] this committee and the broader congress and i appreciate that and the resources that we'll discuss today [35:41] are critical to modernizing the joint force and ensuring that if whatever threats emerge or when called upon [35:49] our nation can win the president's budget supports the department's goals of recharging the defense [35:55] industrial base and the national industrial base while enhancing our military readiness we will continue to [36:02] ensure our war fighters are properly armed globally integrated and ready while always taking care of our most [36:10] most precious thing and that is our people and while advancing the hardware and technology essential [36:15] to fight it's the character and competence of our people particularly the 1.8 million members of our [36:21] enlisted force who make us proud every day and they're represented today by the senior enlisted advisor to [36:28] the chairman united states navy seal dave isom sitting behind me while we face dynamic and dangerous times i have [36:36] absolute trust and confidence in our people who every day execute the most challenging missions with quiet [36:44] professionalism and coupled with the american spirit to outthink out compete and relentlessly innovate we [36:52] will maintain our decisive edge but doing so requires your continued partnership it is also graduation season [37:00] where we welcome a whole bunch of new members to the joint force to include members like second lieutenant [37:07] archie dennis united states army who along with his citadel classmates in south carolina joined the [37:13] joint force this weekend and i welcome he and all the other new graduates to the joint force [37:19] as i close i humbly ask that we remember right now our deployed teammates out there doing our nation's [37:25] work going out into the darkness to do the things that we ask them to do and i ask as always that we [37:32] remember not just the 40 fallen that i mentioned earlier but all of our nation's fallen and their [37:38] families who soldier on thank you and i also look forward to your questions thank you i want to [37:44] ensure each member has a chance to ask questions so everyone will have five minutes for their remarks [37:49] i'll begin by recognizing myself for five minutes secretary hexif for decades congress and the department [37:56] has sought acquisition reform and innovative technologies it's only since fy 24 that the level of [38:02] investment started to catch up with the rhetoric the fy 27 budget request includes over 950 million for [38:09] the defense innovation unit 54.6 billion for the defense autonomous warfare group 580 million for the [38:18] joint interagency task force 401 and for the for the counter small uas and i believe these investments [38:25] will deliver overdue capability and this subcommittee will continue to work with you to ensure success [38:32] i also note there's only 100 million for the accelerate the procurement and fielding of [38:37] innovative technology that's surprisingly low given appfit's success the subcommittee will continue to [38:44] support outfit as we have in the past i invite you to join me at the outfit day on the hill july 21st to [38:51] see firsthand how outfit is delivering capabilities to the warfighter consistent with the desire for injecting [38:58] innovation and innovation at scale for decades there's been increasing demand for increasing [39:04] resilience in the industrial base and more specifically the supply chain the fy 27 budget [39:10] request includes over 20.2 billion for the office of strategic capital and 30.4 billion for the defense [39:16] production act as you're aware we're working closely with the industrial based policy team on the civil [39:22] reserve manufacturing network to ensure the department can qualify and certify second and alternate sources to [39:29] maximize american manufacturing with exception of diu and the joint interagency task force 401 [39:37] most of the investments listed are in mandatory funding what was the strategy to heavily rely [39:44] on the mandatory funding sector in this budget well thank you for the question mr chairman and i would [39:52] first i would thank you and this committee for your efforts on acquisition reform many of which were had [39:58] not been embraced by the department before and a lot of templates on the table [40:03] that were there for us to fall in and run fast with and so speed scale cut and red tape [40:10] reducing requirements where we can looking at things like diu [40:14] replicator now the dog and the defense autonomous working warfare group all of those are born of [40:21] collaboration with the committee and efforts of now reformers we have in the department who are ready to [40:26] run with it as it pertains to the to the budget i think there's a reality in [40:32] this town of how what can get done and how it gets done and in a perfect world everything would get [40:38] done in regular order uh and with a 1.5 trillion dollar top line but there are a lot of challenges [40:43] and dynamics um some of which i don't control and ultimately we look forward to working with the [40:48] committee to ensuring however it shakes out um that it's the full transparency with you and maximizing [40:55] options for the department and i think uh the reconciliation last year was it was a new vehicle [41:01] so it took some time especially because we're doing new things office of strategic capital different [41:05] avenues so figuring out how to deploy that uh took longer than we'd like but we're committed to [41:11] ensuring this year uh with that as a vehicle part of it that we do it in concert with you to ensure the [41:17] most important things whether they're in that or or in regular order are included in the budget [41:22] i understand the desire for flexibility i you know i uh understand why we're breaking this up [41:36] in order to in some chunks uh i guess more digestible to some degree politically but um [41:44] i would hope we can get a supplemental bill here soon uh obviously that we know that of the munitions [41:51] issue and we know of the cost of this conflict and we know the cost of other conflicts and so [41:59] we need to repay those on m accounts that are going to be used i suspect in order to pay for this [42:04] ongoing operation so any idea when we're going to get this supplemental uh we're well aware of all [42:13] those dynamics i think first of all uh the munitions issue issue has been foolishly uh and unhelpfully [42:18] overstated we're we we know exactly what we have we have plenty of what we need and the reason we're [42:24] um accelerating a lot of this is because the department's been static and how it does this kind of [42:29] business not to mention the amount that was given to ukraine for years and years so we are getting [42:34] after changing that dynamic so that we're not getting a hundred more of something but companies [42:39] are investing so there's new plants so you're getting 2x 3x 4x of those munitions in future years [42:45] because that's what we need that's what the our allies and partners through fms require and we just [42:50] haven't been delivering it so we're we're in we're in good shape on that front whatever we think we [42:55] need uh we will submit but i'll say even in the conduct of the conflict working with the chairman [43:01] and admiral cooper uh ensuring that any munitions we're using we know what we're trading off of to [43:06] preserve capabilities so we have maximum optionality across the globe which we do again though it would [43:12] be helpful to get the supplemental sooner rather than later for we can get to work on uh and now [43:17] recognize miss mccullin for her question thank you mr chair um mr secretary the house armed services [43:24] oversight hearing mr hurst uh stated that the cost for the war for act operation epic fury are at 25 [43:32] billion am i correct with with that number that used to the hearing mr hurst yes ma'am that was the [43:37] cost at that time at that time um i would request that you provide the committee uh in writing the [43:44] specifics of what the department will be requesting the supplemental and the breakouts for the following [43:50] costs we talked munitions and mr secretary i think we'd have a more robust discussion on that if we [43:56] were in a classified setting but i respect what what what you shared with us but this is what i'd like [44:03] uh a breakout for military personnel operational activities additional maintenance for deployed ships [44:12] munitions used equipment lost and updated fuel costs now we need to know the funding required to [44:21] cover the damage to the u.s facilities and if there are any agreements from our regional allies we [44:27] hear things in the press that would be helping for any new facilities or improvements in centcom now mr [44:34] hurst here here's here's the rub we need that by june 11th we mark up our bill and some of these are not [44:43] new asks but i thought i'd i drill down and be just a little more specific for you um so i know you're [44:51] going to do your best we'll take the homework assignment in pieces anything you can provide [44:57] would be great now under the war powers resolution the administration has 60 days to conclude activities [45:03] unless congress has declared war provided authorization congress has not done that and i know there's [45:09] different opinions and it changes from day to day whether or not the war powers clock is paused but this [45:15] law states beyond may 2nd the administration needs congressional authorization to continue military [45:21] operations and the president just recently said yesterday that epic fury is not over military [45:27] operations have continued we have a naval blockade and both sides are exchanging fire and they did so [45:34] over the weekend speaker johnson in my opinion should put an authorization on the floor this week [45:40] but mr secretary if congress does not authorize if we don't authorize this to continue military operations [45:47] against iran you're going to have to have a plan put in place to draw down our troops to reset the [45:54] region to protect our assets um and um i'm wondering and that might be in a classified situation but could [46:02] you provide this committee with plan b because if we go there we're going to have to re reset our budget [46:08] after june 11th if the war powers act in my opinion should be invoked and um it comes to congress we don't [46:17] know what the outcome would be do you have a plan b uh ranking member i would say we have a plan for [46:24] all of that we have a plan to escalate if necessary we have a plan to uh retrograde if necessary we have [46:31] a plan to shift assets certainly in this setting we wouldn't reveal what the next step may be [46:36] considering the gravity of of the mission that the president is undertaking to ensure that iran never [46:40] has a nuclear bomb well mr secretary as you know we can be in receipt of that in a different situation [46:46] and we would also like that by june 11th with that i yield back thank you gentlelady uh mr chairman [46:57] thank you very much mr chairman uh mr secretary as i said in my opening remarks i have concerns about [47:03] the use of reconciliation i don't have any concerns about the amounts and uh the effort to restore the [47:09] industrial base you're to be commended for that and frankly i think we've under invested for a long time [47:14] so i'm i'm happy to see a robust number i am worried about the ability to sustain that number [47:20] through the reconciliation process at some point that money disappears uh and will be you know so [47:27] give me some sense of how much of this reconciliation money is one-time expense that you expect to [47:34] either in dust use for procurement that may not you may not need to do again for a long time or [47:39] inject in the industrial base how much is for day-to-day operations that we would need [47:45] frankly to think of as a long-term recurring expense it's a good question mr chairman and i'll defer to jay [47:51] on on details but i would say a big take for example the deals that are being cut that will be funded here [47:58] that ultimately look at companies that make exquisite weapon systems for us and they say in exchange for a [48:03] five to seven year contract which committees like this have authorized for us the authorizing committees [48:08] uh not the appropriate because the authorizing committees and now because they have that clear [48:13] demand signal they're able to invest in a new plant and they're paying for it and that's what i talked [48:18] about in my open remarks so they're building two or three new facilities but we're committed to paying [48:22] for those munitions for five to seven years from this budget and ultimately but the nice part is we're [48:27] saving money because there's no inflation it's at the cost of it today even when we buy it seven years [48:31] from now and that's why you're seeing a 331 billion dollars in munitions as part of this budget there is a [48:37] there's a rocket fuel component to this given the under investment that exists inside this budget [48:43] there will be some tail obviously and and as i acknowledged up front a higher top line from this [48:48] department's perspective is always a welcome thing but the intention is not to get anyone stuck in a [48:53] certain place but to address the needs of the moment cut different deals create new dynamics where [48:58] companies actually invest so we have you know this committee knows the exquisite munitions that we're going [49:05] to be using five to seven years from now no matter what it's about time we look into the future the [49:10] way we are with this budget but you have to fund that and so i think that's that's a big chunk of of [49:14] an increase that you see i mean if you're investing in the shipbuilding industrial base the defense [49:19] industrial base housing and barracks all of that increase troop pay we're looking at increasing the top [49:27] line of the entire force by 50 000 troops that's a that's an investment into the future so i would [49:32] acknowledge that a lot of this does have follow-on cost uh but some of it is something we're going [49:36] to pay for now and benefit from in the future but jay i would defer to you yeah mr chairman in this [49:41] there's 113 billion dollars uh for investments in the defense industrial base i would characterize that [49:47] as a one-time plus up for ketchup uh 35 billion dollars for fsrm to fix all of our poor and failing [49:53] barracks and other facilities of the department and also some catch-up investments in ai and autonomy [49:58] and so if you look at what we're doing with mandatory probably about 200 billion of that is a [50:02] one-time expense we come down to 1.23 for requested top line for fy28 and so we think we can sustain [50:09] these investments over the fide app with discretionary dollars after this well that's reassuring and again [50:15] i don't have any disagreement with the what you're trying to accomplish at all i would remind you that [50:22] frankly the use of reconciliation depends on political support in congress it can be very transitory [50:29] uh so it's a high risk uh strategy as opposed to building things into the baseline uh but again [50:36] i'm supportive of what you're trying to do in terms of recharging the industrial base i think it's long [50:41] overdue let me ask you a specific question um uh and you may want to get back to me on this i don't know but [50:47] uh we've had some discussion over you know we lost one e3 uh on the ground thank goodness uh looks like [50:57] no crew loss uh this committee has been interested in investing in the e7 uh pentagon signed a contract [51:07] for five additional planes not in the air force budget is there going to be a fix to that or we [51:14] where are we at on thinking about the e7 i well aware of that dynamic i know our department had [51:22] taken the position that it was uh airborne or other satellite isr that was probably going to [51:28] be capable a lot of that in the future but i think that mindset was indicative of of uh of a mindset [51:34] that we've shed which is the divest to invest mindset which was an austerity mindset that we're going [51:40] to get and continue resolution after continued resolution so we got to get rid of these platforms in [51:45] order to invest to these platforms and there are gaps that need to still be filled and there are [51:49] systems that see it still need to be funded that are used on the battlefield right now say mq9s a10s [51:55] you name it um i think this and the e7 is one of those so i i we've actually sent a a budget amendment [52:02] to omb to add that i think it has a future it has a it has a place on the battlefield and uh we'll get [52:07] more information for you on that as well well i appreciate that and i particularly though appreciate [52:12] the mindset i think you're 100 right i've seen this over and over again about eliminating platforms [52:18] on the idea we would immediately use that money for new things and quite often it just simply didn't [52:23] happen we lost the capability but we did not move forward with the investment that we needed so uh [52:29] again thank you for uh rethinking that i've got a lot more questions but so does the entire committee [52:35] mr chairman so with that i'll yield back i just want to make one quick comment when you're talking about [52:40] the fixing barracks and facilities i hope we also fix the property management systems [52:45] throughout the department which is woefully needs attention with that i recognize the ranking member [52:53] thank you very much mr chairman uh mr secretary the national security strategy says american national [52:59] power depends on a strong industrial sector capable of meeting both peacetime and wartime production [53:05] demands and the national defense strategy directs dod to quote supercharge the defense [53:10] industrial base uh dod's uh 2027 budget overview appears to use that same framing yet uh your [53:19] department's budget request cuts over five billion dollars from the industrial base in the aviation [53:26] sector alone effectively shutting down all current army aviation platforms uh these are a current [53:35] production platforms the force relies on for lift for sustainability disaster response homeland missions [53:41] etc how did the department arrive at the conclusion that reducing procurement for these army aviation [53:49] platforms strengthens rather than weakens the aviation industrial base well i very much appreciate that [53:55] question and i actually think it's something we're taking another look at i think it's not that every aspect of [54:02] there are some very good things in the army transformation initiative and there are some things that we've [54:06] needed to get another look at and so i think you'll see a review of of some of those things and we'll get back to you on [54:12] that of the of the aviation sector yes ma'am okay and with that but was there an analysis of about the impact [54:21] of the requested procurement reduction did you all do an analysis of production line suppliers workforce [54:27] restart risk prior to the decision uh to cut the funds we'll we'll get that from the army and get [54:34] that to you i don't have it in front of me but i would imagine okay i very very much would love to [54:39] see that before the subcommittee marks up the appropriations bill uh uh coming up let me just quickly [54:46] um can you provide the committee in writing the department's assessment of the minimum sustaining [54:54] production rate for the black hawk and chinook industrial base the supplier base risks associated [55:01] with this budget request and the funded mitigation plan if production falls below those levels can you [55:10] provide us with that information i think that's critically i think i think we should get that to [55:14] you and i think those platforms are critical to the force right now we need to make sure we're able to [55:18] sustain that i think you made the point you all have that industrial base readiness is a strategic [55:23] issue it's what the national uh security strategy you know recognizes and i look forward to hearing [55:30] you know more about how cutting the billion dollars in the in the base investment aligns with that shared [55:35] goal um let me just a question to you general kane despite the precipitous drop in procurement for army [55:41] aviation platforms your budget request invest heavily in modernization i'm a believer in modernization i think [55:49] that's necessary i support investing in future capability but congress also has to understand the [55:55] transition risk the department is asking us to accept reduced procurement of aircraft the force uses [56:04] today while relying on future systems that are not yet fielded and and general from a joint force readiness [56:13] perspective what is the department's plan to avoid a mobility lift sustainment gap if current aviation [56:23] capacity declines faster than replacement capability arrives what are the decision points where the [56:30] department would revisit the reductions if future vertical lifts schedule slip if costs rise or operational [56:38] demand remains higher than expected well ranking member i appreciate the question and any time we're [56:45] looking at military options to our political leaders we we do bake in and can carefully consider [56:51] that transitional risk because it links back to risk to force our military forces and and risk to missions [56:59] and as we look forward over the life cycle of this budget and beyond into the fight app you know we're always [57:06] looking at the evolution of those operational plans and then the decision points along the way to make sure [57:13] that we can match the combat capability and capacity required to achieve the desired effects that are baked [57:22] within those operational plans across the co-coms and i commend the army who's looking closely at the two [57:29] platforms that you're most interested through your line of questioning and the work that undersecretary [57:35] obidol has been doing to look at rotary link rotary wing lift requirements as we move to the future but [57:42] in the end we have to have mobility on the battlefield um it has to be survivable uh in the in the conflicts [57:49] and uh engagements it will have and so we we remain very closely focused on those requirements well i i i i [57:57] appreciate that and my only concern is it is not whether modernization is important but i understand [58:03] with some of those efforts that we're not we are looking uh for a future date is next year the year [58:09] after or so forth because it's it's not been it's not been fielded uh but what we need to take a look [58:16] at and i think you understand this is whether the department is managing this transition uh in a [58:22] responsible way in my view what we cannot afford to do is to create a near-term aviation gap we weaken the [58:31] supplier base and then ask the congress to come back and rebuild that capability and that capacity [58:38] at a greater cost because when you destroy the infrastructure it's very very difficult to bring [58:43] that back and the skilled workforce that it takes to deal with that so uh very clearly this information [58:51] and if you can supply this to our committee would be very very helpful in our moving forward i yield back [58:56] mr chair thank you john lady mr womack thank you mr chairman you know you thread a very difficult [59:06] needle in that and there's been a lot of comments made and i associate myself with a lot of these [59:12] comments on the fact that here we are trying to figure out a base budget at the same time of a [59:19] supplemental and at the same time talking about reconciliation in order to be able to meet the needs [59:24] of the joint force going forward uh and my friend the ranking member of the full committee talks about [59:32] capability gaps when you have to do it this way because of the lack of certainty and the political [59:39] dynamics around this dais and of course throughout congress there are going to be gaps in capability is [59:47] that correct mr secretary i mean we do everything we can to try to minimize that by planning what could [59:54] play off against something else but inevitably there are places where we have to make adjustments you're [59:58] right sir i want to get uh somewhat parochial here for just a minute on the subject of our reserve [1:00:04] component and this question would be for general kane last month 22 adjunct general all of those who [1:00:10] command fighter units in their state signed a letter to congress calling for multi-year procurement [1:00:15] authority to buy between 72 and 100 new fighters annually 13 of 24 fighter units lack recapitalization plans [1:00:24] on the army side all of our states suffer from a lack of reimbursement for responding to the call of [1:00:28] their communities between fiscal 20 and fiscal 24 over 71 million was paid by states to the guard [1:00:35] but the guard never saw that reimbursement as you may know any non-federal entity reimbursing a federal [1:00:42] entity causes the funding to go to the treasury and ngb never sees that reimbursement our guard is paying [1:00:49] to respond to a disaster out of o and m funds then having to pay more to maintain it as the primary [1:00:56] combat reserve for our active force the guard continues to play an outsized role in the nation's [1:01:01] defense in fact general nordhaus recently said that our national guardsmen are fully integrated as part [1:01:07] of the joint force in operation epic fury so here's my point the guard and reserve are being asked to [1:01:13] do more epic fury midnight hammer border security missions domestic deployments and the many all-hazard [1:01:20] responses across the 54 they are as much in the fight as the regular component so what is the [1:01:30] department's plan to ensure that the guard and reserve are recapitalized maintained and reimbursed [1:01:35] at a pace consistent with their operational role in the national defense strategy sir i'm assuming that [1:01:44] question's coming to me since you're looking at me um you would be correct yeah yes sir thank you [1:01:49] sir um you know as a as a member uh of the guard a proud member of the guard i'm mindful that every [1:01:55] day when you mobilize the guard you mobilize the united states people um and they are now much more than [1:02:02] a tactical reserve they're a strategic reserve the decisions on recapping the fighter community live [1:02:09] obviously within our civilian leadership but the requirements that they're out there getting after [1:02:15] every day as you alluded to sir are are substantive and long lasting beyond just the title 32 force [1:02:23] what i'm always inspired by is the professionalism of the guard and the reserves who get more out of [1:02:31] uh an airplane than one might think i mean i go out there to andrews often and still [1:02:37] get to fly and my crew chiefs are master sergeants and senior master sergeants who've been on a [1:02:43] particular airplane for a long long time so they'll continue to force extend that capability [1:02:49] due to the professionalism that they have it doesn't mean we don't have to take a hard look at recap [1:02:54] and make sure that the fourth generation airplanes are on a pathway to fifth and sixth gen as the [1:03:00] department continues to look at what we're solving for mr chairman i if we have another round of [1:03:09] questions i'll i'll come back with another because my next question is probably not going to yield [1:03:13] me enough time and i'll yield back the balance mr quair thank you mr chairman uh ranking member mr [1:03:20] secretary all of y'all thank you for and all the men and women thank you for your service i want to [1:03:26] ask you about the western hemisphere i want to talk to you about mexico and then the border first of all [1:03:32] thank you for um the work that y'all are doing in the western hemisphere i've always said that we're [1:03:37] looking at other parts of the world we have to look at our own backyard and we got to make sure that [1:03:42] the western hemisphere is is um working with us so thank you for that uh anything y'all want to add [1:03:49] to the work that y'all doing there i would ask you to talk to us a little bit about it mexico's the other [1:03:55] one uh very important very important uh part of us uh michael congressman michael mccall and myself were [1:04:01] down there we pushed for the uh special operation forces uh ceo to do training exercises and for the [1:04:08] first time we actually have military forces in mexico which is very unique and and again congratulations [1:04:16] on that uh you can tell us what they're doing and we need to see more of that we also have talking about [1:04:21] the the guard also we have the i believe the california guard is now for the first time [1:04:28] a partnership with mexico we've been pushing uh i've been pushing texas but california got there [1:04:33] before we did but uh that's good and uh talk a little bit about that also on the border i want to [1:04:40] thank you and the men and women of joint task force southern border for the work that they're doing on [1:04:45] the homeland they're in my area laredo and other places but i want to draw your attention to one [1:04:52] particular uh threat that is the accelerating demands uh the cartels are not only watching [1:04:58] what's happening in ukraine but they're learning from it and they're we're hearing from credible [1:05:04] reports about cartels uh looking at fiber optic drone systems um and we all know what that is and [1:05:13] my question is what is the department doing to get ahead ahead of this threat how are you investing in [1:05:18] the counter uas capabilities to defeat fiber optics drone systems and what lessons are we learning [1:05:27] uh from what's happening you know the procurement the bureaucrats without due respect um it takes a [1:05:33] long time to get our systems over though the cartels they got the money they don't have to go through a [1:05:39] procurement system they'll just buy the drones and uh they're out manning us uh on the mexican side along [1:05:45] the border so thank you and if you can address that or the chairman also well thank you congressman [1:05:52] i very much appreciate your efforts in this realm for a very long time and i think you see in the [1:05:56] national security strategy the national defense strategy western ham and homeland is priority [1:06:01] number one we may paste to to the ability on the first island chain but priority number one [1:06:06] is here and you've seen it through america's counter cartel coalition and getting after the [1:06:11] designated terrorist organizations that are trafficking drugs and humans into the united states [1:06:15] something you've been talking a lot about and that's the beginning of our defense in depth it [1:06:18] starts down there where they produce and where they move and then into mexico where there we have [1:06:23] had an impressive unprecedented amount of partnership we appreciate that we would encourage [1:06:28] defensa and marina to continue uh where they can uh to partner and do more that's the expectation of [1:06:35] the united states government of the mexican government is to step up so that we don't have to and then [1:06:40] sealing that southwest border uh is the defense of the american people it's the defense of the homeland and [1:06:45] you talk to the troops that are down there doing that they're proud of it it we also have [1:06:49] multiple national defense areas there uh which are controlled by dow where we can do rapid testing [1:06:55] on on uh counter counter uas jayetta 401 capabilities so we're using those places to [1:07:01] streamline the process by which we see what the cartels are trying to do and get after it with new [1:07:06] capabilities that we can then field elsewhere also learning from ukraine in the process i would defer to [1:07:11] the chairman sir i'll just uh add a few things onto this it's a the russia ukraine lessons learned and [1:07:18] the application of those lessons by uh other actors like cartels is one we're focused a lot on it's [1:07:25] going to require a whole of government effort as the secretary mentioned we do have joint interagency task [1:07:32] force 401 led by an incredible army one star uh brigadier general matt ross who's focused solely [1:07:39] in a chairman's controlled activity so 401 reports up to me and in turn then to the secretary to make [1:07:46] sure that we're entrepreneurially looking at how to sense see detect and defeat the range of small uas [1:07:54] threats uh and you know uh general ross is uh out was just out in centcom looking at some of the [1:08:01] challenges that they're having over there uh it'll continue to be an area of significant focus for the [1:08:07] joint force sir well my time is up but i uh want to ask you to continue working with mexico you you [1:08:14] do have unprecedented uh partnerships but the more we can push them they're allies there's a historical [1:08:21] sensitivity we know why but the more you can push them to get them to work with us that would be [1:08:29] great thank you so much for all of y'all thanks gentlemen chairman rogers thank you mr chairman secretary [1:08:37] hegseth general kane mr hurst thank you for being here and thank you more importantly for your service [1:08:45] to the country the 2026 national defense strategy makes clear that china is the pacing challenge and [1:08:59] this budget request puts real resources behind that nomenclature including 11.7 billion for the pacific [1:09:09] deterrence initiative my concern is that we're we're not just competing against china's military capability [1:09:22] we're competing against the speed at which china can build replace and influence where are some [1:09:35] capability gaps when it comes to a potential conflict with the prc and general kane how how will your [1:09:45] priorities posture the joint force to close those gaps chairman thanks for the question um and you know [1:09:55] the speed at their production capability is one of the reasons why i'm grateful for uh the full team's [1:10:03] partnership on speeding up the u.s defense industrial base efforts as well as the national [1:10:11] industrial base efforts and i'd really like to thank those mom and pop machine shops and second third [1:10:18] fourth tier suppliers that live in all of your districts who are also increasing speed and capability [1:10:25] without losing quality across the entirety of our manufacturing system and it's going to require all [1:10:32] of that when we look at the range of capabilities that we must have to be properly armed and globally [1:10:39] integrated that extends to things like you know long-range fires and really an ability to arm our joint [1:10:47] force to win from the seabed to cislunar space in every single domain in there and i'll defer to the [1:10:56] comptroller and to the secretary to talk about the particular elements but the goal is the range and mix of [1:11:02] capabilities that creates outsized dilemmas for xi jinping and others that are out there to ensure that [1:11:11] we maintain and sustain deterrence thank you amen thank you second uh the war between the u.s and iran [1:11:23] reinforces an old lesson which is that modern conflict comes down to attrition china has been able to [1:11:34] produce naval ships at a pace our industrial base can't match the ships are not as large as ours but [1:11:45] quantity has a quality of its own how are we posture for an economy of force in the pacific particularly [1:11:57] if taiwan is invaded well sir channel and my uh my inner clausowitz um which is always uh something i try to [1:12:09] remember the the big moving parts of war fighting you know we're not really doing economy of force work [1:12:16] in the pacific as you alluded to sir and others have it's our primary uh focus and so on a daily [1:12:23] you know on a daily basis we come to the secretary with a range of military options across the world [1:12:32] so that he and the president can carefully consider those military actions and associated risks it all [1:12:39] comes back to the budgetary tools that you'll hopefully give us and the authorities to achieve [1:12:45] those capabilities and as we look for example at shipbuilding which you talked about i'm grateful for [1:12:51] the work that the navy is doing to scale that effort uh to ensure that we offer and continue to offer [1:13:00] those range of options to our civilian leaders here in the united states quickly to epic fury [1:13:12] our fight with iran has confirmed what defense planners had long warned about iran doesn't need a peer [1:13:22] military to cause serious problems his playbook the cheap drones built from commercial parts sea mines and [1:13:33] contested straits fast attacked craft and anti-ship missiles the war also confirmed a harder lesson [1:13:45] even with overwhelming firepower the side that runs out of munitions or air defenses first loses are we [1:13:57] mr secretary are we secure in that point absolutely um and we we are winning have won every component of [1:14:10] what we fought in this conflict iran knows that based on the cape the incredible degradation of [1:14:15] their capabilities uh and which is why we saw them wanting to come to the table how this gets resolved [1:14:21] will be on our terms on president trump's terms and we have all the munitions and capabilities necessary to [1:14:26] uh enable that thank you thank you gentlemen mr aguilar thank you mr chairman thank you all for being here [1:14:35] um mr hurst on on april 29th as you indicated to the ranking member you said that the iran war had cost [1:14:44] 25 billion dollars in total you reaffirmed that today do you have any do you have any other updated [1:14:51] costs or projections um since that uh testimony that you've given outside reporting estimates have [1:14:57] indicated that the war costs could be a billion dollars a day do you have any anything to share yeah [1:15:04] thanks for the question sir uh so at the time of testimony in front of the ask it was 25 billion [1:15:09] dollars but the joint staff team and the comptroller team are constantly looking at that estimate and [1:15:14] so now we think it's closer to 29 that's because of updated repair and replacement of equipment costs [1:15:20] and also uh just general operational costs keep people in theater thank you i appreciate that mr secretary [1:15:27] when can you share more formal accounting on the cost of the war with with congress and with this committee [1:15:35] um we'll share what we can i think we've updated uh on that number this morning but uh when it's [1:15:41] when it's relevant and required we will share it i think this would be the format um that it's [1:15:49] that it would be required uh mr secretary on that same day uh april 29th you testified that the [1:15:55] current ceasefire meant that the 60-day calendar with the war powers resolution was paused um who are [1:16:02] the parties to the ceasefire right now we are in that same ceasefire as of right now it wasn't the [1:16:11] question who are the parties to be the united states and and the regime in iran who how many pages is [1:16:21] the ceasefire what deal points i'm not asking you to share the contents i guess what i'm what i'm trying [1:16:26] to ask is how do we know that the cease fire is is active or not active without any documentation we [1:16:38] know it's evident and the ceasefire is in effect but is it is it pages is it is it 15 points there's [1:16:47] been different points that have moved around um you know is there any other how do we know you just [1:16:55] trust that the president knows that the ceasefire is active or not active as you know for the most [1:17:00] part a ceasefire means the fire is ceasing and we know that has occurred while negotiations occur and [1:17:06] there are lots of different uh discussions with our negotiating team that are happening i'm there [1:17:10] when those discussions are occurring uh different drafts different perspectives so it's a very dynamic [1:17:16] situation where a negotiated settlement uh could be the outcome here where iran does not have nuclear [1:17:22] capabilities and from the department of war perspective we uh we're here to support uh those [1:17:27] options on may 5th you announced the launch of project freedom which is a new exercise where centcom [1:17:33] will help coordinate ship traffic and guide commercial ships through the strait president [1:17:37] trump then announced the operation concluded that evening now it seems that uh the uh we may be [1:17:43] revisiting that can you give us the latest on project freedom well as it pertains to battlefield [1:17:51] options we're not we don't disclose uh those types of things but ultimately at the as the president [1:17:56] stated publicly in his truth at the request of the pakistanis and given the options in the negotiation [1:18:01] it was paused and it's an option we could always recommence uh should the commander in chief want [1:18:05] us to is the is the theory to create more ceasefires or more projects just to evade the war powers act [1:18:16] the theory of the entire case is to prevent iran from having a nuclear weapon and if that has to be [1:18:21] done kinetically and militarily the department of war is locked and loaded and ready to do that [1:18:26] if it happens through uh project freedom where you move commerce through if it has to if it happens [1:18:30] through a negotiated deal the president was very clear even yesterday this is actually quite [1:18:35] simple iran will never have a nuclear weapon uh one way or another and we're here to support as one [1:18:40] tool of the whole of government uh to make that happen general kane the depleted munitions have been a [1:18:49] subject of some of the discussions that you've even heard here today um with respect to stockpiles [1:18:56] that we have around the world key regions like the indo-pacific and the middle east um you know can [1:19:03] you give us an update uh what other what are you hearing from the combatant commands um about [1:19:10] their munitions status around the world uh well sir we we uh we have sufficient munitions for what [1:19:19] we're tasked to do right now um that's what i hear from the co-coms what i will say is i i will always [1:19:25] want more so i appreciate the effort of this committee and the congress we're always going to want more [1:19:31] munitions secretary hengstead what are you doing to support the involved services to to recap their [1:19:38] losses we're submitting a 1.5 trillion dollar budget that will remake the department and ensure that [1:19:45] every warfighter in the future has exactly what they need and we're never in a fair fight and i i take [1:19:49] issue with the the characterization that munitions are depleted in a public forum that's not true and [1:19:55] ultimately we have all the munitions needed to execute what we need to execute and we're going to [1:19:58] ensure that we supercharge that going into the future i think you've heard differences from both [1:20:02] sides of the aisle on that point yield back mr chairman thank you gentlemen judge carter uh thank [1:20:10] you mr chairman and welcome to each of you glad you're here uh start off with something i'm concerned [1:20:20] about uh mr secretary my milcon va subcommittee is aware of living conditions of the 68 w combat medic [1:20:34] students at the joint base san antonio frankly they're very unacceptable quite unlivable as chairman of [1:20:43] milcon committee i'm deeply concerned there appears to be no imminent path forward to fix these issues [1:20:52] what actions is the department taking to improve these living conditions ensure our soldiers [1:20:59] receive safe and dignified housing not now and not in the years to come our budget cannot fix that [1:21:10] it's not we don't have enough money you've got all the money what do you think about that first of [1:21:18] all let's fix that whatever whatever unit that is we want to know about it and we're going to get a [1:21:22] team out there right away to address it and we've used discrete examples like that to find the gaps [1:21:27] in why we're not getting at it on a more at a more holistic fashion because we we came in on a huge deficit [1:21:33] of maintenance on barracks and housing this this budget this budget funds that it also we're also [1:21:39] going to pursue milcon reform because in too many places we're trying to build things around milcon [1:21:44] as opposed to using milcon because milcon is so bureaucratic and slow in its process so we look [1:21:50] forward to working with you to fix that not just these this discrete barracks issue but where we found [1:21:56] them we fixed it and then we've energized the system through a barracks task force to to flow money [1:22:01] exactly where it needs to go and i'm i'm a champion of speeding up milcon everywhere we can and we are [1:22:10] i've been out to the to uh guam and some of those places and we got a lot of needs out that way [1:22:18] maybe we're way beyond what our budget will sustain but i have another question for you i represent fort [1:22:27] hood the home of the uh first air cavalry division brigade operating apaches blackhawks and chinook [1:22:39] helicopters i'm concerned that the fy 27 budget request does not support these programs essentially [1:22:49] zeroing out funding across the three platforms despite the armor stating that we're going to use [1:22:56] these aircraft and they will operate for decades to come with that the chinook has no replacement or [1:23:05] heavy lift mission now will the department manage aviation modernization and how will they do that [1:23:15] without creating readiness problems and capability gaps in the future what's the plan future lift is not [1:23:26] like the chinook sir i think it's a very fair point i think it goes to the previous mindset of divest to [1:23:34] invest that was an austerity point of view that we inherited at our department we've made some changes [1:23:39] at the army we might have a slightly different view of the army transformation initiative some of it is [1:23:44] very good there's a lot of goodness in there but i think there are some things that assumed uh future [1:23:49] platforms that may not be there yet take the apache for example which uh our our war fighters rely on and [1:23:55] love take the chinook which is used all all the time we need to make sure we've got something there [1:24:00] for it uh before you divest or it we're not investing in that capability so we look forward to reviewing [1:24:05] that with you and ensuring that we don't have a gap yeah because the budget doesn't have anything it [1:24:10] zeroes out all three of those as far as we read it well then i i'd like to take i'll take another look [1:24:18] at that with our team okay thank you mr chairman thank you gentlemen uh mr case thank you chair mr [1:24:30] hurst what is the total replacement cost of the material that we have expended in iran to date [1:24:40] by the way by material i refer to munitions i refer to um you know planes to drones to stuff that we keep [1:24:48] in our stockpile yeah i'll exclude military construction from this because we don't know what [1:24:53] that's going to look like in the future but i would say it's around 24 billion dollars okay replacement [1:24:59] repair and that's um through what date that's our current estimate okay i'm looking at a um report [1:25:07] in the uh public sphere from csis dated april 21st uh which calculates um estimated um cost unit cost [1:25:18] aggregate unit cost of seven precision uh systems so i'm talking you know tomahawk jasm prism sm3 sm6 that [1:25:27] patriot those seven at about 25 billion dollars um is that does that sound about right i mean you're [1:25:35] you're projecting everything at about 23. yeah i'm most confident in our projections on munitions cost [1:25:42] that's the easiest thing to calculate so that number sounds a little high to me for that stage of the [1:25:47] war okay um we've lost about 39 aircraft uh according to a report in the war zone and that's an old one [1:25:55] that's almost one month old um do you have a replacement cost on all those aircraft now [1:25:59] understanding that some of that aircraft is not replaceable but presumably you would have to replace [1:26:04] it with some kind of capacity there are costs there sir but i want to get back to you in writing and what [1:26:10] they specifically are because as you can imagine repair of aircraft is something that's very hard to [1:26:15] calculate we want to do a full diagnosis of the aircraft before we estimate that cost okay but that's [1:26:20] not in your estimate of somewhere around 29 uh cost of war that you that you gave us that's included [1:26:26] that's what we have right now oh i see that is part of it yeah but it's an estimate especially for [1:26:30] repair costs and so that could change over time okay and um you did talk about milcon which was a [1:26:35] question that i had do you have any because i mean we've obviously suffered major damage to our [1:26:39] infrastructure uh in the middle east um do you have you don't have a milcon estimate yet we have a lot of [1:26:46] unknowns there we don't know what our future posture is going to be we don't know how we construct those [1:26:49] bases and we don't know what part our allies or partners could pay into the milcon costs and so [1:26:54] we don't have a good estimate for that at the time okay what about fuel is that a major uh calculation in [1:26:59] your cost of war uh fuel used uh depletion of fuel reserves um replenishing that reserve we wrap that [1:27:08] into our operations and maintenance costs okay that's okay um going to your fy26 budget request you've got [1:27:18] um procurement let's just focus on procurement because that's what we're talking about largely [1:27:23] you've got 413 billion dollars which in and of itself is an 84 percent increase over fy20 [1:27:30] i'm sorry i'm in 27 20 27 versus 26 um and you have uh 38 percent of that uh total procurement request [1:27:43] in reconciliation does that reconciliation request include anything from the war in iran obviously [1:27:53] we're buying things in the reconciliation requests that are being used in the iran conflict including [1:27:59] munitions there's over 40 billion dollars in a munitions request and reconciliation and so that would [1:28:03] be part of the replacement okay so what i'm trying to get at is is your reconciliation request in fy27 [1:28:10] related to iran or is it not related to iran or what what um is it all you know how long our budget [1:28:18] generation process is and the appropriation cycle and so we completed this before the iran [1:28:22] conflicts exactly okay so what you're coming back to us with is not the record i mean the [1:28:28] reconciliation is not about iran the reconciliation is about assumptions that were made before iran [1:28:34] it's about making a generational investment of the joint force and building military readiness [1:28:38] that's okay whatever request is okay um i'm going to get back to some of the questions that were [1:28:46] asked earlier which is what is the assumption that you are making in terms of of of um future [1:28:53] reconciliation bills in future fiscal years how much of this is loaded into this particular [1:28:59] physical you had a big reconciliation last year which was which was uh portrayed in the same light [1:29:04] and now you're coming back for a huge one this year is another one on the horizon next year then [1:29:10] for our budget request for 28 we we expect a request that is discretionary only uh and i believe the [1:29:16] top line for that is 1.23 which will be our request that year okay i yield back thanks gentlemen mr diaz [1:29:26] ballard thank you mr chairman uh thank you gentlemen uh thank you gentlemen and more importantly the folks [1:29:32] that you lead uh federal government does a lot of important things with nothing more important than what [1:29:37] you all deal with uh let me let me get back to this hemisphere uh i'm very very grateful that the [1:29:43] administration is finally really focused on western hemisphere and it's actually uh going to show [1:29:48] we're going to be able to show that it's saving american lives but but let me just uh to you mr [1:29:53] secretary let me throw a couple of points and see if you disagree with any of these and let me talk [1:29:58] about the the one state sponsored terrorism in the western hemisphere which is a cuban regime uh are you [1:30:05] aware that they harbor terrorists and u.s uh fugitives from u.s law and we can just go through these really [1:30:12] quick uh yes yes yes um is it true that the cuban regime actually shot down two american airplanes [1:30:18] in international airspace murdering americans i don't i can't recall the precise year but i believe [1:30:24] that is the case uh is it true that uh that russian spy ships and warships including the nuclear sub [1:30:31] kazan kazan have repeatedly used cuban ports uh that is true commissioner is it true that the site of the [1:30:39] russian uh signet uh complex in lourdes was has once again become a hub for russian intelligence [1:30:46] within cuba well we've we've long been concerned that uh a foreign adversary using that kind of [1:30:51] location that close to our shores is uh highly problematic and is it also true that now the chinese [1:30:56] also are there i wouldn't want to reveal anything that should be classified but we we don't want uh [1:31:03] foreign adversaries attempting to use that well stated um are you aware that uh well you're obviously [1:31:09] aware that that cubans uh intel people and and military folks have been have been sent around [1:31:15] the world because your folks uh confronted them uh in venezuela but are you also aware that according [1:31:22] to uh ukrainian intelligence there are thousands of cubans fighting for russia in ukraine i was not [1:31:30] aware of that particular fact but i am well aware that cubans have been around the globe to include [1:31:35] attempting to defend maduro in venezuela so that is something they've done for a long time yes uh you're also [1:31:40] aware mr secretary that uh well even stated by u.s intelligence even during the biden administration [1:31:46] the trump administration the previous administration but the obama administration that cuba has been [1:31:52] designated as one of the foremost advanced espionage operations against the united states and that they [1:31:57] share intel with other adversaries of the united states that all very much sounds right sir and again [1:32:05] we're not in a classified setting so i'm just considering all those issues and others that we could talk [1:32:10] about in a classified uh setting do you believe that the cuban regime possesses a national security [1:32:16] threat to the united states uh i do let let me now focus uh on iran as i have a little bit of time [1:32:25] left over you you mr secretary you've been very clear what the goal is but the goal that you're saying [1:32:31] is not the goal that just this administration has had vis-a-vis iran it's been the goal of multiple [1:32:37] presidents the united states right iran cannot have a nuclear weapon but i'd like to also ask you about [1:32:44] iran's offensive ballistic missiles uh and their offensive drones and their use of terrorism are [1:32:50] those also issues that um would be uh factors in a negotiated settlement with iran um because i i don't [1:33:01] have to tell you that there have been negotiations ad nauseam with iran the iranians continue to cut [1:33:07] deals and yet they violate those deals but it's interesting in the in the nuclear deal uh that [1:33:13] was cut with iran during the obama administration missiles weren't even in part of that deal as as [1:33:21] as horrible as the deal was dealing with a nuclear issue uh nor was terrorism and i'm just hoping that [1:33:27] those two issues not only the nuclear deal which is paramount but but offensive ballistic weapons [1:33:33] missiles and we saw we saw one that now has a capability of of traveling rather rather far and [1:33:39] also their spread of terrorism i hope that those also would be factors in any resolution to this uh [1:33:46] to this issue in iran with iran well sir we're not we're not the negotiating team but i can tell you [1:33:51] we have world-class negotiators the core of it is is the nuclear weapons issue um those other factors are [1:33:59] always a factor understanding that iran has effectively tried to use the north korea strategy [1:34:04] with such overwhelming capabilities uh conventionally that no one would dare prevent them from pursuing a [1:34:10] nuclear weapon and it took president trump to have the courage to make that historic decision [1:34:14] uh and hopefully we can get that across the finish line with negotiations which are ongoing right now [1:34:20] mr chairman my time is up i yield back thank you sir thanks the gentleman miss lee uh thank you mr [1:34:26] chairman uh secretary under secretary in general thank you for being here uh secretary hegseth about 11 [1:34:34] years ago u.s uh air force veteran sergeant david creed served at who served at the nevada test and [1:34:42] training range realized for the first time that the health problems he'd been experiencing were not an [1:34:48] isolated incident incident but matched the health problems of many other veterans who had served [1:34:54] alongside him at knitter he was sitting in his backyard reconnecting with eight of them and asked them [1:35:01] does anyone here have tumors and six of eight of them rose their hands and then proclaimed that even [1:35:08] some of them had children with tumors dave as it happens had recently had a grape-sized tumor removed [1:35:16] from his neck three years ago he came to washington when the va had refused to provide him the kind [1:35:23] of benefits and coverage he had earned and which he needs from the va because of his department of [1:35:30] defense would not provide the agency with his records of his knitter service i helped introduce a bill two [1:35:38] years ago that and have been fighting on his behalf ever since what is most frustrating about this fight is [1:35:48] not that the federal government doesn't recognize these health impacts of their service in fact congress [1:35:55] 26 years ago provided a law providing medical coverage and compensation for the department of energy [1:36:02] employees who served in the very same location that dave creed and his colleagues had served in [1:36:09] instead their fight is against the department of defense red tape uh which you have been committed to [1:36:16] fighting thank you you see one of the only things standing between the toxic exposed exposed veterans at [1:36:24] knitter and comprehensive health coverage and benefits from the va is documentation that the department of [1:36:33] defense has that will prove that they served where they actually did this documentation exists and we're [1:36:41] just waiting for the department to act every day that you delay in providing this information another [1:36:49] veteran and their family suffers unnecessarily last week i had the opportunity to meet many of these [1:36:56] veterans two hours before i met them one of them received a call from his oncologist informing him that he had [1:37:05] multiple myeloma and uncurable blood cancer over the weekend dave was notified that two more of his [1:37:14] cohort had recent deaths the invisible enemy which is an organization dave founded maintains a memorial list of [1:37:22] those who worked at knitter and have passed away when dave testified before the house veterans affairs committee [1:37:29] uh round table 13 months ago 462 veterans were on this list today that list includes 565 names just one year [1:37:43] of inaction has led to 103 103 veterans passing without the care that they received that they earned and their [1:37:53] family without the benefits this list grows by an average of one every two days mr [1:38:00] secretary you have the authority to provide the va with the documents they need today to get these [1:38:09] veterans the help they need these veterans have been waiting far too long can you please commit to me [1:38:17] that you will be able to provide that list or that information as soon as possible so that these [1:38:23] veterans can get the care and the benefits that they have rightfully earned well thank you for what [1:38:31] you're doing for those folks and i can certainly commit to you today that you know my chief's right [1:38:35] here we'll make we will get a review for me as soon as early as next week and i'll get back to you on [1:38:42] on what our department's position should be on that okay well i first of all we have the information [1:38:49] the department of energy has provided these benefits to the same cohort of people worked alongside them [1:38:58] i can't we cannot wait for another review i'm asking for your commitment i'm not talking about a full [1:39:03] review i'm just talking about a familiarization so i understand exactly what you're talking about [1:39:08] wrap my arms around it and then get you a response it's not it's not a situation i have all the facts [1:39:13] on i just want to get all the facts and understand it before i commit to something like that all right [1:39:16] i just uh like i said one person every two days one veteran who has served this country is dying and [1:39:25] their families are going without the benefits they've earned i can't express how urgent this need is i thank you for [1:39:33] your uh immediate attention to this issue thanks gentlelady mr elsie thank you mr chairman mr secretary [1:39:43] general kane jay thank you all for being here to all the staff sitting uncomfortably in very tight seats [1:39:49] behind him thanks for your dedication to our country master chief isom you joined the navy in 1987 ronald [1:39:56] reagan was still president you've been in uniform for 39 years i'd like to thank you and your family for [1:40:02] all the sacrifices that you've made you're clearly the essential man and i uh i always want to point [1:40:07] that out that uh you've been serving uh in the navy since i was a junior in high school and so i'm very [1:40:13] very grateful as we address 1.5 trillion dollar request i i want to say i appreciate participating in [1:40:20] the tabletop exercise at the pentagon and i encourage all my colleagues to attend and do that it gives a [1:40:26] very clear message on why we're asking uh or you are asking for 1.5 trillion and how it's justified [1:40:35] as we move forward with contested logistics and as eventually this war in iran will end [1:40:42] and the indopacom becomes the focus again i'd like to see congress fully fund a request for the marine [1:40:47] corps mcclund class lsm and the kc130j for both the navy and the marine corps but the budget request breaks [1:40:54] them up and i'm not sure how you skin that cat moving to force protection encounter uas as we've [1:41:00] seen in iran at nations that are somewhat far away from iran we've had a force protection encounter uas [1:41:07] issue as we've lost a a an e3 awax which is worth 500 when we 500 million when we bought it but it's [1:41:15] irreplaceable and there are fewer of those than b21s i think we're seeing uh the uh the reach of uh of [1:41:23] uas's affect us in a way that we probably didn't anticipate and we need to continue to use na uh new [1:41:31] companies that are developing new technologies to go after uas's uh general you addressed uh [1:41:38] carl von clauswitz so i'll use soon sue as a counter even the finest sword plunged into salt water will [1:41:44] eventually rust and we deployed the uss forward in june uh 24th of 2025 it's going on 11 months [1:41:52] at sea and as one of only two people in the room who have been on extended deployments on ships [1:41:57] myself and master chief isom i just want to point out thanks to the families who are sacrificing this [1:42:02] is going to um harm a lot of families and and as we realize that every conflict we've been in in the [1:42:10] last year has included the ford and it's been essential to our operations it also points out the [1:42:16] need for carriers and i don't think 11 is enough but also recognize that downrange that's going to [1:42:21] affect the availability and the readiness of our force going forward uh so along with that the [1:42:29] capabilities that a sixth generation fighter on the carrier are so important as we've already seen we've [1:42:34] got the f-47 we're going to down select the faxx later this summer uh general kane can you address why [1:42:40] having both of those is so important well first uh sir i want to echo your gratitude for the ford [1:42:48] uh yesterday uh the air wing flew off so we know that oceana was a very happy place uh as uh those [1:42:57] aviators fought through 800 feet broken to come up initial as they should after a record-setting [1:43:03] deployment so we welcome the ford back you know my job i won't comment on a particular program but the job [1:43:09] that i'm in now is to offer a range of options to include our ability to project power off cbn to [1:43:16] the future so as our civilian leadership carefully considers that i know that'll be in the mix if uh [1:43:21] if selected and i know uh your colleagues in virginia and in san diego are all focused on the same sir [1:43:31] they're going to have similar capabilities but i think as we switch to the indo-paycom region that as [1:43:38] we talk about first second third island chains which for most of the american people doesn't [1:43:42] really mean that much but the ability to have a moving uh uh airfield in the indo-paycom when we [1:43:50] know that the chinese uh our peer adversary have a number of hypersonic weapons that are going to be [1:43:58] aimed at fixed points such as islands where our forces are it's just extremely important that we [1:44:04] recognize that uh that a moving aircraft carrier with unique capabilities which obviously can't be [1:44:09] addressed in a place like this um that can shoot from outside the range of the capabilities of our [1:44:16] adversaries is extremely important i appreciate everything that y'all are doing you're addressing [1:44:21] an issue that hasn't been addressed in decades by asking for 1.5 trillion it's a hard ask it's going to [1:44:29] be difficult for us to sell it but i think it's absolutely essential for the defense of the united states [1:44:33] including a supplemental which even people on my side of the aisle are saying they won't support [1:44:39] this is merely to refurbish and replenish that which we have expended in this conflict it's [1:44:44] absolutely essential for the defense of the united states and the chinese are watching so thank you for [1:44:48] all three of you and everybody in the room that works in this department thank you for what you do i [1:44:53] yield back thank you gentlemen mr morelli thank you mr chairman i appreciate uh this hearing and thank you [1:45:02] all for for being here for testifying i just wanted to make a general observation first of all i do get [1:45:08] the sense that sometimes people think that critical questions are unpatriotic weak or defeatist i just [1:45:16] want to say for the record i don't think that's the true i think it's the opposite and i appreciate [1:45:20] general kane you've mentioned civilian leadership and civilian civilian control a number of times in [1:45:25] your testimony this morning we're the congress uh civilian control that you have talked about [1:45:32] begins and ends here and that's the way the founders put in article one responsibility for [1:45:36] funding and for declarations of war are with the united states congress so i want to just mention [1:45:41] that because i hear it all the time and we are not in any way when we ask critical questions demeaning or [1:45:47] in any way reducing our tremendous respect for the men and women of the military the joint forces [1:45:53] of the united states so i feel like that needs to be said and i i appreciate um the comments that you [1:46:00] made general kane about civilian control second as it relates to mandatory spending versus [1:46:05] discretionary i think this is really important this committee the appropriations committee and [1:46:08] the defense subcommittee is and is given the responsibility by the congress and by the american [1:46:13] people to make sure that we have an appreciation for all the dollars taxpayer dollars that go into [1:46:19] defending this nation and questions again ought to be here transparency begins here [1:46:25] uh oversight begins here and mandatory spending avoids the responsibility this committee has [1:46:32] to report to the american people on how our money is being spent so i i just again want to stress how [1:46:38] important it is uh i appreciate my friend mr elsey's comments about the 1.5 trillion dollar request [1:46:44] if it is so obvious to everyone and to the american people that that's the dollar amount we need [1:46:48] we ought not be going through this mandatory discretionary uh supplemental let's let's put it all on the [1:46:54] table and let's make the case to the american people um you know we've now waited since february 28th [1:47:02] is by my count 11 weeks 74 days since hostilities began in iran and trying to get a a a reporting [1:47:12] of the dollars that have been spent in this has been excruciating and it's been long i think general [1:47:16] washington uh reported quicker to the continental congress uh than this has been in terms of reports [1:47:23] the united states congress and i would just in the strongest terms urge that we move forward and give [1:47:29] this committee a full reporting on what the cost of this endeavor has been with that um i didn't want [1:47:35] to make a a quick you meant you mentioned that mr mr secretary in your opening comments about private [1:47:42] companies making private investments in our defense i assume they're getting compensated for [1:47:46] an investment when you say private investment are you suggesting companies are making investments for [1:47:50] which they will not be compensated uh yes i am why would they do that because we're turning it [1:47:58] it's it's the right question because we've done it one way for years and years and gotten the same [1:48:03] results so this is changing the paradigm companies now know we're going to give them orders for five [1:48:08] to seven years on exclusive munitions in exchange for them paying for capitalization of their own plants [1:48:15] we used to pay for them to build their plants and then buy the munitions from them [1:48:18] so now because they know they got they got consistent income they are no i appreciate i [1:48:23] appreciate what you're saying they're up front and the crimes are now paying for their own plants and [1:48:27] equipment that's a that is a brand new paradigm the taxpayers not paying for it that's 50 billion [1:48:32] dollars of value that you don't have to appropriate because the companies are paying for it themselves [1:48:38] and the companies will not get compensated they're going to make that as a charitable contribution [1:48:41] to the united states government their compensation is long lead times of munitions that they will produce [1:48:47] and we will pay for in the future but we don't have to build all right just to be clear this is [1:48:50] how i'm claiming my time reclaim i just want to be clear wait build their own factories i appreciate [1:48:55] what you're saying but let's not i mean let's let's be honest they're going to get compensated [1:48:59] look i'm for that and i appreciate what you're saying in terms of lead time and dependability and [1:49:05] reliability of funding but but let's be clear um i want to switch topics if i can for a second um [1:49:11] um the um there's been much reported about the president's trip to uh to china and i appreciate [1:49:17] again my colleagues who have raised indo paycom and its defense uh there are weapons sales which [1:49:23] have been on hold that the president has not authorized uh to taiwan and i wonder if you give [1:49:28] me an update either the secretary or general kane on what the status of those uh weapon sales are at this [1:49:35] point i i just want to say the primes will be paying for those factories out of their own pocket not [1:49:40] the department's money or the taxpayers money which is a sea change which is why i think this budget [1:49:44] they're going to get a return on their investment which by the way this america well welcome a return [1:49:49] on investment yes i understand but they're not paying for it out of their pocket not getting [1:49:53] compensated but anyway could you answer my question about taiwan buildings cost money and if we're giving [1:49:58] them two billion dollars to build the factory that's taxpayer money if they're using it out of their own [1:50:03] hide that's two billion dollars saved for the american people that then we can appropriate toward [1:50:07] munitions that we pay for in the future yeah i know it's difficult to grasp it's not it's what [1:50:12] happens it's it's a different way of getting to the same place you're going to pay for it the [1:50:17] united states and look we ought to they're building things for us but to suggest that somehow they're [1:50:22] making an investment that they're not going to get compensated through sales is just it's honestly kind [1:50:27] of ridiculous we used to pay for the building too and then pay for the sales and now we're paying for [1:50:32] the sales but not the building which i think is a good and they're not embedding that in the price of the [1:50:36] things that they're selling to us the capitalization the capex that they're putting into it they're [1:50:41] going to get back i look i don't know why we're even arguing about it they're paying for it could [1:50:45] you answer my question about taiwan arms that's the president's on the cusp of a trip and i'll be with [1:50:49] him and he will make all the decisions related to that i think the gentleman's time expired make a quick [1:50:56] point there is a there is a change the the industrial base is putting money at risk with the expectation [1:51:03] of orders but there is no guarantee if in fact that that particular product that they may make [1:51:11] is not met or meet the standards in which we want to acquire it and that is a significant change in [1:51:18] what we've done in the past mr fleischman thank you mr chairman and thank you secretary i commend those [1:51:23] changes in the innovation to everyone on this panel thank you for a job well done thank you for what [1:51:29] you're doing for our country this is truly incredible so let me start with that um as chairman [1:51:37] of the energy and water subcommittee i'm going to take a little bit different uh approach i'm deeply [1:51:42] involved in the recapitalization and modernization of our nation's nuclear deterrent as we are [1:51:48] recapitalizing the entire strategic nuclear arsenal i remain concerned about the lack of options lower on [1:51:54] the escalation ladder available to the president in theater non-strategic nuclear weapons have remained [1:52:00] essential to the credibility of our extended deterrent commitment to nato i've got a couple of [1:52:06] questions to ask but i'm going to ask general uh kane and secretary hegseth what is your assessment of [1:52:13] our non-strategic nuclear capability gaps in the indo-pacific and elsewhere what additional tactical [1:52:19] nuclear capabilities beyond slickum n should we consider that would be most useful for reassuring allies [1:52:26] deterring our adversaries and providing combatant commands and usual options in the worst case [1:52:32] event of a conflict we're as you know we're making a two billion dollar investment and you mentioned [1:52:40] slickum n uh and in fy26 so we're investing in that but i i would say that uh a lot of that discussion [1:52:47] would be classified given old plans in the indo-pacific but admiral paparro uh i i would say there's no [1:52:53] co-com commander we have regular uh feedback with on what dilemmas we might need to create for an [1:52:58] adversary than admiral paparro and indo-paycom uh to include everything that would deter uh any level [1:53:05] of aggression so i i think there's a lot of sensitivity on this topic that doesn't lend itself [1:53:10] to this environment uh but very much so we're looking at all options thank you and i would also [1:53:14] commend the admiral tomorrow i mean they're doing incredible work yes sir general sir i was just uh [1:53:22] acknowledging the secretary's comment about what forum we're in here today you know all three and i [1:53:27] appreciate the congress's leadership all three legs of the triad are undergoing modernization [1:53:33] and all require that and we're grateful for the assistance from the congress it's a bedrock [1:53:40] to deterrence around the world and one that we want to maintain our focus on i'll probably leave it at [1:53:46] that and can come back if there's follow questions thank you and i would assure you gentlemen that in [1:53:50] the energy and water bill which funds this we will certainly address that in a very robust way [1:53:55] as i think the administration has so i thank you all uh as most of you know i in that bill i'm [1:54:02] probably the nation's strongest proponent supporter of nuclear power in congress a nuclear propulsion has [1:54:09] long provided a great united states navy with significant operational advantages [1:54:14] there's been tremendous tremendous progress within your department accelerating the adoption of nuclear [1:54:20] energy as a means of providing resilient and long duration power generation for military installations [1:54:27] and forward operations i'm excited about the army's janus program and the air force just [1:54:32] announced uh the first two air bases to receive micro reactors my question uh gentlemen [1:54:39] is can you walk us through how the department is thinking about the role of nuclear power across the joint force [1:54:45] including naval propulsion and the use of advanced reactors for base and expeditionary power what [1:54:52] operational advantage did you see these technologies providing particularly in the indo-pacific and what [1:54:58] can we be doing to accelerate and expand these efforts both incredibly important capabilities micro [1:55:06] reactors and propulsion uh whether you're looking at survivability sustainability of of basing and mobility [1:55:12] within basing uh and the expectation in the homeland or abroad that the lights are on and and we can [1:55:18] operate even if it's a contested environment and then there's just no doubt uh you can't you can't [1:55:23] beat nuclear propulsion uh especially as we've refined it over time so appreciate your efforts and i think in [1:55:28] this department you'll find a a friend in ensuring we maximize that thank you mr secretary general [1:55:34] sir i'll just say that the the joint staff has collaborated and continues to do so with all the combat [1:55:41] commands of services the secretary's team and office on osw and the congress to make sure that we're [1:55:48] looking at the range of energy requirements that we're going to have and that we move from frankly [1:55:55] in some cases a reactive posture no no reaction into your nuclear point but to a more proactive stance [1:56:02] around how we're going to ensure energy uh sustainability in a range of situations that we could face [1:56:10] so we appreciate the we appreciate the chance to comment thank you general and again once again i [1:56:16] begin with profound thanks i will end that way to all of y'all yield back thank you thank you gentlemen [1:56:22] mr joyce thank you uh chairman thank you all for being here in uh defense or yes defense secretary [1:56:30] war secretary excuse me uh hexeth godspeed on that project of changing our procurement process america's [1:56:37] at its finest when capitalism and capital markets are allowed free competition and you get to purchase [1:56:42] the best of all those ideas out there speaking of which in june 2025 ukraine's operation spiderweb if [1:56:49] you're familiar with it destroyed and damaged dozens of russian aircraft on the ground using low-cost [1:56:54] covertly infiltrated drones demonstrating military installations are vulnerable to asymmetric drone [1:57:00] attacks at a fraction of the conventional strike costs what steps are the is department taking to [1:57:05] protect our military bases from covert drone attacks and do you need additional funding to safeguard those [1:57:10] assets well i appreciate the question and it's it's the battlefield trend well one of a handful that [1:57:17] we are most closely tracking and investing in 54 billion dollars in defense autonomous warfare recognition [1:57:24] that every aspect of how we fight will be affected by uh technology and techniques and tactics like like [1:57:32] that one and uh every environment more contested than it's ever been and the ability to both go on offense and [1:57:39] defense in that environment has to be something we're not just at parity with but ahead of adversaries [1:57:44] to ensure that we can create the kind of uh advantages we we're used to having and that's that's our job is [1:57:50] to ensure that we're looking around the corner and so this investment in this budget i don't know what it [1:57:54] was jay in fy26 but it was a a small fraction of 54 billion and we're even looking at dog and metamorphosizing [1:58:03] it whether it's a joint task force into a sub unified command we're elevating this so we can push it [1:58:08] through the services and ensure that it's not just something we do in an exquisite way but it's how [1:58:13] we fight at every echelon through the services and that budget number is a is a reflection of that [1:58:19] well you're getting attacked on a lot of fronts secretary except uh can i just uh can i just follow [1:58:24] up would that be okay um one one thing that i appreciate the partnership with the congress on [1:58:31] is as we evolve from the war fighting mix that we have right now the cost of precision and the cost of [1:58:39] range is coming down and so as we look at this this budget we look at the mix of capabilities that [1:58:45] we're going to have we talk about the agility in the defense industrial base and the national [1:58:51] industrial base the flexibility that we as teammates are going to have to have to ensure that we're [1:58:58] not buying behind the technology development curve but we're buying in front of it is something that [1:59:04] we look in the joint force to partner with obviously osw but also the the congress on this [1:59:10] as technology moves really fast thank you no problem sir i just want to touch another angle that we're [1:59:16] getting attacked at and unfortunately and that's the cyber threats from adversaries like china russia [1:59:21] iran and criminal organizations which continue to grow the department's ability to defend critical [1:59:25] networks and support their military operations depends on a strong and ready cyber workforce across all the [1:59:31] services at the same time unfortunately you're competing with the private sector which can make [1:59:35] recruiting and retaining qualified cyber personnel challenging can you give us an assessment of where [1:59:40] the department's cyber workforce stands today and what investments congress can make to help you [1:59:44] make that better appreciate that question 20 20 billion in cyber offense and defense i think the biggest [1:59:51] change we've made across the joint force is full integration of cyber as a war fighting domain [1:59:56] which it was always an appendage or something you might do and i think when you look at operations [2:00:00] epic fury um absolute resolve with maduro the capabilities so much of that was enabled by [2:00:07] unique cyber capabilities that we need to stay ahead on and so this recognizing future adversaries [2:00:13] could have more capabilities and more sophistication both on offensive defense uh this this funds it [2:00:19] properly i think we put a commander in charge there who's who's who's in general rudd who is infusing a [2:00:25] war fighting mindset into that place and ensuring we're competing not just inside the military [2:00:30] but also for the best civilian talent to come into into cybercom as well quite important and secretary [2:00:36] heck so i hate to keep picking on you but the collaborative combat aircraft program is one of [2:00:41] the department's most significant investments in this next generation autonomous power can you discuss [2:00:45] how the department is approaching the integration of these autonomous aircraft alongside crude platforms [2:00:50] and how the program fits in your broader effort to feel affordable mass and strengthen debt [2:00:55] veterans and the indo-pacific i can share some of it and but not all of it because a lot of that is [2:01:01] is classified but it is part of the future of how we will fight and and a way in which we plan to [2:01:07] stay far ahead of adversaries and create more dilemmas for them than i think they even imagined today [2:01:13] thank you very much uh you back mr chairman uh thank the gentleman i recognize ms mccullin for any closing [2:01:18] comments thank you mr chairman i'll be submitting some questions for the record on behalf of representative [2:01:23] capter last year the president requested the first trillion dollar defense budget congress provided [2:01:30] over 150 billion dollars in reconciliation and 903 billion dollars in discretionary spending [2:01:38] i continue and i think you heard from many of us up here that mandatory funding for defense is not a [2:01:44] great idea we should avoid it at all costs the budget request for this upcoming fiscal year has grown to [2:01:49] 1.5 trillion dollars it's a 50 percent increase but the department doesn't seem to have enough to [2:01:56] cover its budget holes here in the department i'm going to give you uh two example two examples one is [2:02:01] reprogramming um just the national guard alone has 600 million dollars of reprogramming none of their [2:02:09] missions were budgeted for and now we're being asked to now you need to move money around you're asking [2:02:14] us to move money around to cover that um that was money that was approved for other purposes so it [2:02:20] creates a hole the army submitted a request to to move nearly one billion dollars around to fill personnel [2:02:26] shortfalls the navy has 907 million dollar hole and needs to cover for its personnel so those are those [2:02:33] are problems and this is why we want things baked into the base bill um and then when it comes to the [2:02:39] supplemental the iran war has cost americans at least now if i'm if i've got it right mr hers 29 [2:02:45] billion dollars to date without a lot of things haven't been accounted for yet and the department's [2:02:50] requesting more money for munitions outside of the base budget so bottom line i i want your takeaway [2:02:56] message to be i'm deeply concerned that the department can't seem to manage one trillion dollars that [2:03:02] congress provided last year so gentlemen we need information we mark our bill up on june 11th [2:03:10] and we need to be able to justify to do our fiduciary responsibility to the taxpayers any [2:03:16] increased funding that you seek so we expect the information that we've been asking for munitions [2:03:21] and supplemental requests as soon as possible i would say by the end of next week so i thank you all for [2:03:28] being here and mr chairman we watched some of the other hearings this is the way especially a hearing [2:03:33] should be conducted especially when it's dealing with international defense when we ask people to put their [2:03:38] lives on the line i thank everyone for a respectful hearing but we need the information mr secretary [2:03:43] i yield back thank the gentlelady and that's something we are going to agree with uh the other [2:03:49] side is that we sooner is better it makes my job easier and and in the day it makes your job easier [2:03:54] mr secretary uh if we can get the information both on the base budget and on the supplemental uh just [2:04:02] as a comment that ed case was making about some of the cost on this thing i hope the kuwaitis are going to [2:04:08] come up with the money for those three f-15s that we lost and uh that's a considerable amount of [2:04:15] money but i want to thank the secretary and the general kane for answering questions before the [2:04:19] subcommittee today i look forward to continuing to work with you as we move forward uh with the fiscal [2:04:25] year 27 appropriations process and uh we can fund the men and women who serve us well in the united states military that were adjourned [2:04:32] so [2:04:41] you