Blue Ribbon Committee LIVE: Explosive New Evidence Emerges in Flood Control Investigation — N18G

[0:00] that it's better to really have individual affidavits [0:04] because it's also a way of trying to compare and test [0:09] the credibility of these witnesses. [0:12] Kapag, again, yung sinabi po kanina, [0:15] Supreme Court has already decided in a host of cases [0:18] that when affidavits perfectly or the allegations or statements perfectly dovetail, [0:24] ibig sabihin, pag tinignan nyo, parang talagang pattern talaga siya, [0:29] i-nakaduda-duda po yung ganun. [0:32] Mas maigi po yung merong konting inconsistency [0:35] because it gives badges of truth to it [0:38] rather than if it perfectly dovetails [0:40] and then it says practically the same thing, [0:43] then there is something questionable about that. [0:46] Mr. Chair, quickly, before we leave this indulgence. [0:50] Actually, after Senator Rafi, it's your turn. [0:55] Pero para lang bago natin iwanan itong subject, [0:59] sa affidavit. [1:01] Mr. Chair, siguro hindi hod naman sa Central Division Office ng Ombudsman, [1:06] pero itong affidavit na lima ay nakakuha po ko [1:09] from Deputy Ombudsman Nico Clabano [1:14] and also si Director Matibag. [1:16] Ang sakin ko kasi, Mr. Chair, [1:18] iba po yung talagang pinirmahan. [1:20] Pag pinirmahan ang affidavit, [1:21] ibig sabihin, pagpalagay na natin, [1:26] 10% nga lang ang totoo doon, [1:28] pero may magagamit pa rin hubo doon. [1:31] Tanong ko lang kay Director Matibag, [1:33] doon sa sinasabi niyong halimbawa, [1:36] doon sa mga limang individual na pumirma, [1:39] may matutukoy kasi ang gusto natin matuntun dito, [1:42] matayo na yung nasala rin eh. [1:43] Kahit pa paano sila, [1:45] kung meron silang personal knowledge, [1:47] kung talagang yung kanilang isinalaysay, [1:50] kahit pa 10%, 20%, [1:53] ay sa tingin nyo ba yung pwede magamit [1:55] para matukoy yung mga tunay na salary nito. [1:58] Dahil baka pwede, [1:59] sabi ko nga yung labing walong yun, [2:02] maganda kung sabihin nila rito [2:04] para maitayhi natin, [2:06] para malaman natin at matuntun [2:08] yung mga talagang may kagagawa nito. [2:11] Sige, Director Matibag. [2:13] Salamat po, Mr. Chair. [2:15] Tama po yun, [2:16] pero doon po sa 10% [2:17] ang 20% na sinasabing totoo, [2:19] yung participation nila sa driver, [2:21] hindi po ma-establish pa rin talaga [2:24] kung nakita nilang actual [2:26] na may pera ba talaga, may dala. [2:28] I will cite an example. [2:29] Yung isa po sa pumirma, [2:31] si Gil Nabidad, [2:32] yung isa sa mga labing walo, [2:35] tinanong siya, [2:36] kasi may allegation siya roon, [2:37] nakasama siya nag-deliver, [2:39] tinanong siya doon po sa one-on-one interview, [2:42] sa pag-deliver po ng mga mali, [2:43] tanong, [2:46] na maneho mo po ba lahat ng ito [2:47] o may maneho pang iba [2:49] kasi nagbigay po siya ng plate number. [2:51] So sinabi niya, [2:52] yun, [2:52] doon yung totoo, [2:53] yung mga plate number, [2:55] totoo yun. [2:56] Tapos tinanong niya siya, [2:57] sa pag-deliver po ng maleta [2:59] na may lamang pera, [3:01] anong maleta po ang personal [3:02] na i-deliver ninyo? [3:04] Very specific po yung tanong, [3:05] personal na i-deliver ninyo. [3:07] Ang sagot po niya, [3:09] wala po. [3:11] Tag-ahatid lamang po ako [3:12] at sila Mark Tixay at Paul Estrada po [3:14] ang personal na nag-ahatid [3:16] kung para kanina ang mga ito. [3:18] So doon pa lang po, [3:19] meron ng problema [3:20] kasi may admission siya, [3:22] inalays niya roon sa pinakang [3:23] joint upinibit [3:25] na nag-deliver siya ng maleta [3:27] nung tinanong na siya ng personal, [3:29] ang sagot na niya, [3:29] wala pala. [3:31] Nag-drive lang siya. [3:32] So paulit-ulit po, [3:34] ganun yung nangyari. [3:36] Alright, thank you. [3:38] Quickly lang, [3:39] balik po tayo sa Ombudsman. [3:42] Para po sa mga isasagawang [3:45] susunod po na pagdinig, [3:47] ano po pong mga data [3:48] o informasyon [3:49] na kailangan po ibigay sa inyo [3:51] ng Blue Ribbon [3:52] para ikang titibay po [3:56] ang inyong investigasyon? [3:58] Do you need any more [4:00] documents, [4:02] pieces of evidence [4:03] from the Blue Ribbon? [4:04] O sapat na po yung [4:06] naibigay po ng [4:07] Chairman's report [4:08] sa inyo, [4:09] sa Ombudsman, [4:11] lahat po ba [4:12] ng cases [4:12] na kailangan po rinyo? [4:14] Kasi, [4:15] I believe, [4:15] naibigay na po [4:16] ng dating Chairman, [4:17] Chairman Lacson, [4:19] sa Ombudsman po [4:20] yung kanyang report. [4:24] Thank you, [4:25] Your Honor. [4:25] But the Office [4:26] of the Ombudsman [4:27] will always welcome po [4:28] yung additional pieces [4:29] of evidence [4:30] and additional [4:31] testimonies [4:33] if ever meron po. [4:36] Also, [4:36] yung mga COA reports [4:37] po kung meron din [4:38] na makukuha [4:39] from the Senate [4:41] Blue Ribbon Committee [4:42] that would help [4:43] a lot [4:43] on our ongoing [4:45] investigations. [4:46] Pero kung [4:47] the same issue [4:48] pa rin po, [4:49] actually, [4:50] what I mean to say, [4:51] pag may lumutang [4:52] po dito, [4:53] may akusasyon na naman [4:54] sa isa doon [4:55] sa mga senador [4:56] na napangalanan na po, [4:58] na isabit na po [4:59] sa report, [5:00] may dadagdag lang po [5:01] na ebidensya [5:02] or pareho pa rin po, [5:05] pero ibang tao. [5:06] You get you [5:07] what I mean? [5:08] Isang tao po [5:09] inaakusahan [5:10] pero nakasama na po siya [5:11] doon sa chairman's report, [5:13] pero ibang tao [5:14] naman ito [5:14] nag-aakusa, [5:15] pero the same case [5:16] naman po. [5:17] I-entertainin pa rin po ninyo, [5:19] di po ba, [5:19] yung ebidensya [5:20] or kailangan nyo [5:21] ng bagong ebidensya [5:23] na naman [5:23] because different person [5:25] itong nag-a-allege po [5:26] na nag-aakusa. [5:28] Kung bagong [5:30] complainant po yun, [5:32] Your Honor, [5:34] hindi naman po [5:34] magbabago yung [5:35] investigation namin. [5:36] What the office [5:37] usually do is [5:38] parang [5:39] kinoconsolidate namin yun [5:41] dun sa naunang complaint [5:42] against the same [5:44] say, [5:45] lawmaker [5:45] or senator [5:46] or congressman. [5:47] So, [5:48] i-coconsolidate lang namin [5:49] yung another [5:49] complaint [5:51] coming from [5:51] a different [5:52] complainant. [5:53] Pero yung mga [5:54] pieces of evidence, [5:56] yun din po yung [5:56] magagamit po. [5:57] Pero po pwede po ba [5:59] na sabihin na lang [6:00] na i-diretsyo na lang [6:01] sa ombudsman? [6:02] Kasi po, [6:03] kung dito, [6:04] paulit-ulit na lang [6:05] tayo, [6:06] hindi na po matatapos [6:07] ang trabaho po [6:08] ng Blue Ribbon [6:09] at nakasentro na lang [6:10] ang investigasyon [6:12] sa flood control. [6:14] Baka naman po pwede [6:15] kung same individual yun, [6:17] isumiti na lang po [6:18] diretsyo sa ombudsman [6:20] para naman po [6:21] hindi po [6:22] ikang redundant na [6:23] ma-imbestigasyon ko [6:25] yung ongawing [6:25] sa isang tao na ito. [6:27] O kunwari si [6:27] person A, [6:29] may darating na naman [6:30] na inakusan si person A. [6:32] The same anomaly. [6:34] Yung nga lang, [6:34] may bagong tao [6:35] na magsabihin na [6:36] nagpaparatang. [6:38] Pwede po ba [6:39] yung kanyang statements [6:40] diretsyo na lamang po [6:42] sa ombudsman [6:42] rather than [6:43] i-imbestigahan na naman po [6:44] dito kasi hindi na po [6:45] tayo matatapos. [6:46] Marami po pong problem [6:47] ang ating bahay [6:48] na kailangan silipin. [6:49] Iba ka redundant na po. [6:51] Ano ang masasabi niya diyan? [6:54] Your Honor, [6:55] the Office of the Ombudsman, [6:57] never naman niya [6:59] nag-refuse to accept [7:00] documents submitted to it. [7:02] So, [7:03] kung isasabit po siya [7:04] sa amin diretsyo, [7:05] we will always welcome it. [7:07] Kung isasabit naman po siya [7:08] sa Senate Blue Ribbon Committee, [7:10] you can always endorse it to us. [7:12] Alright, [7:13] thank you. [7:13] Senator Rafi? [7:14] Yeah, [7:16] Ma'am Karen, [7:18] nabanggit nga kanina [7:20] ni Attorney Matibag [7:21] ng NBI, [7:22] kalamihan dun sa [7:23] labing walo [7:24] na mga [7:25] tawag kong kargador, [7:26] tawag nila bodyguards, [7:28] na paiba-ibang statements, [7:29] hindi tumatay-tay [7:31] ng maayos. [7:33] Now, [7:33] having said that, [7:35] siyempre gusto natin [7:36] yung salarin [7:37] talagang makasuhan [7:39] at managot [7:40] kung sino man yung mga [7:41] talagang tumanggap [7:42] ng pera. [7:43] Now, [7:43] how would you appreciate [7:44] that complaints [7:46] being forwarded [7:47] to your office [7:48] na yung affidavit [7:50] ay paiba-iba [7:52] tulad niya sa [7:54] labing walong kargador? [7:55] Eh, [7:56] gusto talaga natin [7:56] madiin yung dapat madiin. [7:58] Meron talagang tumanggap [7:59] kung meron. [8:00] Pero, [8:01] tulang binanggit ni [8:02] Attorney Matibag, [8:03] paiba-iba yung statement nila. [8:06] Tulak atras, [8:08] tulak atras. [8:09] At, [8:09] wala talagang [8:11] definite na [8:11] sila mismo [8:12] ang nag-deliver, [8:15] sila mismo [8:16] eyewitness [8:17] at may mga dokumento, [8:18] mayroong screenshot, [8:20] may recorded conversation, [8:21] et cetera, [8:22] nothing like that [8:23] kundi here [8:24] sa'yo lamang. [8:24] So, [8:25] paano atake niya [8:27] ng ombudsman [8:28] para [8:28] maging [8:29] tight yung case [8:30] against anybody [8:31] na talagang [8:32] tumanggap ng pera? [8:35] Your Honor, [8:36] that's why [8:36] the office of the ombudsman [8:38] required [8:38] an individual [8:40] complaint [8:40] affidavit [8:41] to verify po [8:43] yung personal [8:43] knowledge talaga [8:44] ng bawat isa [8:45] dun sa mga [8:45] nag-submit [8:46] ng [8:46] affidavit. [8:49] Kasi [8:49] the office [8:50] requires nga po [8:51] na personal [8:52] knowledge [8:52] para [8:53] upon [8:54] evaluation [8:55] ma-check [8:55] namin agad [8:56] kung [8:57] this can stand [8:58] yung preliminary [8:59] investigation [9:00] or pwede namin [9:01] siyang [9:01] i-refer [9:02] for further [9:02] fact-finding. [9:03] Unfortunately, [9:04] kasi pag [9:05] i-refer mo [9:05] siya sa [9:06] fact-finding [9:06] dapat po talaga [9:08] may verifiable [9:09] leads [9:09] at hindi kami [9:10] magkakandak [9:10] lang ng [9:11] fishing expedition. [9:12] Okay. [9:13] Yung sinasabi [9:14] nitong [9:15] labing walo [9:16] na sila talaga [9:18] ang nag-deliver [9:18] ng pera [9:18] at walang [9:19] ebedensya [9:19] kung talagang [9:20] pera ba [9:20] yung laman [9:21] ng maleta [9:21] at hindi naman [9:22] sila mismo [9:23] ang nagbilang [9:23] ng pera [9:24] at walang [9:25] matibay [9:25] na ebedensya [9:26] na meron silang [9:28] pinig-deliver [9:28] ng tao [9:29] kung sino [9:29] man yung tao [9:29] although we [9:30] really need [9:30] to know [9:30] kung sino [9:31] talaga [9:31] at dapat managot [9:32] ang dapat managot [9:33] I've been saying [9:33] that all along. [9:34] So paano [9:35] ang magiging [9:36] appreciation [9:37] nyo doon [9:38] sa [9:38] apidavit [9:39] ng taong [9:40] doon sa labing walo? [9:43] Your Honor [9:44] kung matanggap [9:45] na namin [9:45] halimbawa [9:46] yung kanilang [9:47] individual [9:47] affidavit [9:48] yung mag-submit [9:50] na sila [9:50] siguro po [9:51] ang magiging [9:52] ano namin [9:52] is like [9:53] I've said [9:54] kung it can [9:54] withstand po [9:55] yung [9:55] ano [9:56] ng preliminary [9:56] investigation [9:57] kasi nga po [9:58] meron na [10:00] kaming [10:00] bagong [10:02] when it comes [10:04] to [10:04] conduct a [10:05] preliminary [10:05] investigation [10:06] prima pache [10:07] with reasonable [10:09] certainty [10:09] of conviction [10:10] din po. [10:12] So kapag [10:13] isang [10:14] tao [10:15] nag-issue [10:15] ng affidavit [10:16] na nagpaiba-iba [10:17] na ng [10:18] statement [10:20] at lumilitaw [10:22] na wala pala [10:22] siyang first-hand [10:23] information [10:23] kundi nakuha [10:24] lang niya [10:25] o naipasa [10:26] lang niya [10:26] nasa kanya [10:27] yung information [10:28] na yun. [10:28] So doon pa [10:29] lamang [10:30] magkakaroon na [10:31] ng problema [10:31] sa credibility [10:32] yung [10:33] nag-issue [10:34] ng affidavit [10:34] na yun. [10:35] So [10:35] Your Honor [10:37] kasi nga po [10:38] lahat [10:38] ng mga [10:38] complaints [10:39] nag-undergo [10:41] yan [10:41] ng [10:41] evaluation [10:42] so yung [10:43] mga [10:43] nag-evaluate [10:44] po [10:44] sa amin [10:44] are [10:44] lawyer [10:44] evaluators [10:45] and then [10:46] yung [10:46] evaluation [10:47] recommendation [10:47] nila [10:48] is [10:48] subject [10:49] to [10:49] review [10:49] and [10:50] approval [10:50] of our [10:51] officials [10:51] so [10:51] based [10:52] on [10:53] I [10:54] do not [10:54] have [10:54] any [10:55] personal [10:55] knowledge [10:55] when it [10:56] comes [10:56] to [10:57] the [10:57] affidavit [10:59] ng [10:59] Marines [10:59] but [11:00] I [11:00] signed [11:01] the [11:01] notice [11:01] address [11:02] to [11:02] attorney [11:03] baligod [11:04] that's [11:04] why [11:04] yun lang [11:05] po [11:05] yung [11:05] binasa [11:06] ko [11:06] yung [11:06] notice [11:07] so [11:07] ang [11:08] nakalagay [11:08] po [11:08] dun [11:08] sa [11:09] notice [11:09] nga [11:09] dahil [11:10] nga [11:10] po [11:10] hindi [11:11] siya [11:11] it [11:12] cannot [11:12] be [11:12] considered [11:13] na [11:13] personal [11:13] knowledge [11:14] na [11:15] meron [11:15] sila [11:15] bawat [11:16] isa [11:16] dun [11:16] sa [11:16] 18 [11:17] personnel [11:19] or [11:20] people [11:20] na [11:20] yun [11:20] last [11:22] na [11:22] lamang [11:22] on [11:23] any [11:23] other [11:23] case [11:24] kahit [11:25] na [11:25] hindi [11:25] dito [11:26] sa [11:26] 18 [11:26] merong [11:29] nag [11:29] submit [11:29] approach [11:30] yun [11:31] once [11:32] na [11:32] receive [11:33] nyo [11:33] po [11:33] yung [11:33] isang [11:33] affidavit [11:34] against [11:35] anybody [11:35] your [11:37] honor [11:37] the [11:38] usual [11:38] process [11:39] ano [11:40] yung [11:40] mga [11:40] hinahanap [11:41] nyo [11:41] doon [11:42] sa [11:43] nag [11:43] submit [11:43] affidavit [11:44] pag [11:45] nag [11:45] submit [11:45] po [11:46] yun [11:46] ng [11:46] affidavit [11:46] or [11:47] complaint [11:47] affidavit [11:48] sa [11:48] min [11:48] your [11:48] honor [11:49] dumadaan [11:50] po [11:50] muna [11:50] yan [11:50] sa [11:50] verification [11:51] to [11:51] see [11:52] kung [11:52] meron [11:52] siyang [11:52] similar [11:53] or [11:54] earlier [11:54] complaint [11:55] na [11:55] so [11:56] as [11:56] na [11:56] hindi [11:57] siya [11:57] mag [11:57] doble [11:57] doble [11:58] so [11:58] pag [11:59] na [11:59] verify [11:59] say [12:00] wala [12:00] siyang [12:00] existing [12:01] complaint [12:01] or [12:02] previous [12:02] complaint [12:03] similar [12:03] complaint [12:04] sa [12:04] office [12:04] of [12:04] the [12:04] ombudsman [12:05] it [12:05] will [12:05] undergo [12:06] evaluation [12:07] okay [12:07] doon [12:08] doon [12:08] sa [12:08] evaluation [12:09] maghanap [12:10] ba [12:10] kayo [12:10] ng [12:10] pieces [12:13] of [12:13] evidence [12:13] hard [12:14] evidence [12:14] to [12:15] corroborate [12:17] doon [12:17] sa [12:17] sinasabi [12:18] niya [12:18] sa [12:18] kanyang [12:18] complaint [12:19] affidavit [12:20] pwede [12:21] pong [12:21] ganun [12:21] your [12:22] honor [12:22] kasi [12:22] one [12:23] of [12:23] the [12:23] recommendations [12:24] na [12:24] pwedeng [12:25] gawin [12:25] ng [12:25] lawyer [12:25] evaluator [12:26] is [12:26] to [12:26] dismiss [12:27] it [12:27] outright [12:27] kung [12:28] makita [12:28] niya [12:28] na [12:29] frivolous [12:29] lang [12:29] yung [12:30] mga [12:30] complaint [12:30] so [12:31] in [12:32] other [12:32] words [12:32] maghahanap [12:33] kayo [12:34] ng [12:35] ebidensya [12:36] like [12:37] I said [12:37] earlier [12:38] na [12:38] magcorroborate [12:38] doon [12:39] sa [12:39] sinasabi [12:39] sa [12:39] affidavit [12:40] kasi [12:40] kung [12:40] hindi [12:40] frivolous [12:41] ngayon [12:41] sabi [12:42] mo [12:42] initial [12:44] evaluation [12:45] pa lang [12:45] po [12:46] yun [12:46] your [12:46] honor [12:46] pero [12:46] still [12:47] inevaluate [12:48] po [12:48] namin [12:48] siya [12:48] kung [12:49] yung [12:49] sinasabi [12:50] niya [12:50] sa [12:50] affidavit [12:51] is [12:51] supported [12:51] by [12:52] evidence [12:52] okay [12:53] last [12:53] na [12:53] lamang [12:54] talaga [12:54] so [12:54] base [12:55] po [12:55] na [12:55] sa [12:55] mga [12:55] narinig [12:56] natin [12:56] ngayon [12:56] lahat [12:57] doon [12:57] sa [12:57] sinabi [12:58] ni [12:58] director [12:59] ng [13:00] NBI [13:00] na [13:01] si [13:01] attorney [13:02] Melvin [13:02] Matibag [13:03] paano [13:04] po [13:04] madidescribe [13:05] yung [13:06] testimony [13:08] o [13:09] itong [13:09] pinagsasabi [13:10] nitong [13:10] labing [13:11] walong [13:11] kargador [13:12] your [13:14] honor [13:14] hindi [13:15] ko [13:15] pwede [13:16] sagutin [13:16] yan [13:16] because [13:17] I [13:17] did [13:17] not [13:17] evaluate [13:18] that [13:18] affidavit [13:20] I [13:20] understand [13:20] malamit [13:21] salamat [13:21] Mr. [13:21] Chair [13:21] follow up [13:22] question [13:23] Mr. [13:23] Chair [13:23] go [13:25] ahead [13:25] Senator [13:25] just [13:27] a quick [13:27] question [13:28] kay [13:28] director [13:29] Matibag [13:30] in [13:30] interview [13:30] ba [13:31] ninyo [13:31] at [13:31] kinuha [13:32] yung [13:32] affidavit [13:33] ni [13:33] attorney [13:33] Baligod [13:34] yung [13:35] 18 [13:36] marines [13:36] po [13:37] 18 [13:37] kargador [13:39] in [13:40] interview [13:41] po [13:41] namin [13:41] isa [13:41] si [13:42] attorney [13:42] Baligod [13:42] hindi po [13:43] kasi [13:43] hindi [13:43] naman [13:44] po [13:44] siya [13:44] subject [13:45] actually [13:46] gusto [13:46] namin [13:47] siya [13:47] interview [13:47] si [13:48] Mike [13:48] Defensor [13:49] ayaw [13:50] nila [13:50] wala [13:51] po [13:52] kasi [13:52] kaming [13:52] content [13:53] power [13:53] to force [13:54] them [13:54] kung [13:54] na monitor [13:55] nyo [13:55] yung [13:55] hearing [13:56] dito [13:56] yung [13:57] bogus [13:57] na [13:57] hearing [13:58] siya [13:58] ang [13:58] nagpapaliwanag [14:00] siya [14:01] yung [14:01] nagsasalita [14:02] on behalf [14:03] of the [14:03] opo [14:04] diba [14:05] tama po [14:05] nagtataka [14:06] nga po [14:06] kasi [14:07] sa ganun [14:08] ba [14:08] pag [14:08] siya [14:08] ang [14:09] nagpapaliwanag [14:10] ano yun [14:12] it [14:13] validates [14:14] and strengthen [14:15] the findings [14:15] of NDI [14:16] na mukhang [14:17] kinotes [14:18] na tinuro [14:19] kasi [14:19] ganito po yan [14:20] in-approach [14:21] niya yung [14:21] labing walo [14:22] actually [14:22] 26 nga po [14:23] nung una yan [14:24] naging labing walo [14:25] yung nagsulat [14:27] nung [14:27] Joint [14:28] Apidavid [14:28] at tama po [14:29] Mr. Chairman [14:30] nagtataka nga ako [14:31] medyo marami-rami [14:33] na rin po [14:33] nga akong [14:33] na-attend [14:34] naman na [14:34] committee hearing [14:35] na kung saan [14:36] ang abogado [14:37] sa likod [14:37] pinapopo [14:38] at [14:39] bihiram-bihiram [14:40] pagsalitain [14:40] yun po yung [14:41] ipinagtataka ko [14:42] bakit si [14:42] Attorney Balikod [14:44] ang nagsasalita [14:45] baka mas mabuti po [14:46] para sa akin [14:47] gumawa na rin po siya [14:49] ng sarili niyang [14:50] Apidavid [14:50] at siya na po [14:51] mismo magreklamo [14:52] base sa kanya [14:53] mga narinig [14:53] yun lang ang tanong ko [14:54] actually [14:55] kasi nga [14:56] yun nakita ko [14:56] siya mismo [14:57] and you're right [14:58] and for the record [14:59] it's a violation [15:00] of our rules [15:01] in Senate proceedings [15:04] when a lawyer [15:05] speaks [15:06] and [15:07] deliberates [15:09] on the [15:10] and represents [15:11] not representing [15:13] the resource [15:14] persons [15:15] so [15:15] doong maliwanag [15:16] na [15:17] hindi dapat [15:18] nagsasalita [15:18] yung abogado [15:19] dapat [15:20] yung resource [15:21] persons [15:22] mismo [15:22] ang nagsasalita [15:23] and for the record [15:24] we just wanted [15:24] that clarified [15:25] thank you [15:27] senator [15:28] kiko [15:29] is that [15:29] is just [15:29] one quick [15:30] kasi we'll just [15:31] have to [15:32] give the floor [15:33] to individuals [15:35] who want to [15:35] ask questions [15:36] go ahead [15:36] yes mr. chair [15:37] isang follow up [15:38] question [15:38] salamat mr. chair [15:40] follow up [15:41] question [15:41] kaysa sen rafi [15:45] kanina [15:45] sa ombudsman [15:46] sa nbi [15:47] naman po [15:48] meron po bang [15:49] mapupoint out [15:50] ang bureau [15:50] na inconsistencies [15:52] sa pagitan [15:53] ng joint [15:53] affidavit [15:54] at yung limang [15:55] individual affidavits [15:57] na pinirmahan [15:58] o sa pagitan [15:59] ng limang [16:00] individual affidavits [16:01] any inconsistencies [16:03] po [16:03] yun na nga po [16:04] nagbigay na ko [16:05] ng example [16:06] mismo [16:06] nung tinanong [16:07] sinabidad [16:07] at isasabit po [16:09] namin to [16:10] itong mga [16:11] aming interview [16:12] tinanong siya [16:12] kung nagdeliver [16:14] siya ng maleta [16:14] may deliver [16:15] ba siyang maleta [16:16] ang sambut niya [16:16] wala [16:17] pero dun sa kanilang [16:18] mga joint [16:19] affidavit [16:19] may sinasabi [16:20] mr. chair [16:21] actually [16:22] not only [16:23] the affidavit [16:24] na sinabit [16:24] sa ombudsman [16:25] yung pinagbasihan [16:26] namin [16:26] nakita rin po [16:27] namin yung mga [16:28] lumabas sa social media [16:29] na unang affidavit [16:30] at saka po [16:32] yung testimony [16:33] nung nakaraan dito [16:34] at nakita na po [16:35] namin yung mga [16:36] inconsistencies [16:37] in fact [16:37] gumawa po kami [16:38] ng parang [16:39] diagram [16:40] diyan [16:40] nakalagay na po [16:41] diyan [16:41] ito yung [16:42] affidavit [16:42] dito [16:43] ito yung [16:43] lumabas [16:44] at ano yung [16:44] inconsistencies [16:45] that will be [16:46] part of our [16:47] submission to the [16:48] committee [16:48] mr. chair [16:48] alright [16:49] thank you [16:49] thank you [16:51] director [16:52] of the nbi [16:53] maraming salamat [16:54] committee [16:55] secretary [16:56] can you put [16:59] this on record [16:59] or send [17:00] and then send [17:01] someone [17:01] from the [17:02] blue ribbon [17:03] committee [17:05] to go upstairs [17:07] office [17:07] po [17:07] ni senator [17:08] robin [17:09] padilla [17:09] para [17:10] to inquire [17:11] the good [17:12] senator [17:13] kung [17:14] sasamahan [17:15] niya ba [17:15] yung [17:16] 18 [17:17] bodyguards [17:18] dito sa [17:19] blue ribbon [17:20] hearing [17:20] that's just [17:21] to put [17:21] on record [17:22] para [17:22] ika [17:23] nga [17:23] mas [17:23] maayos [17:24] po [17:24] dahil [17:25] while [17:25] we're [17:25] conducting [17:26] this [17:26] hearing [17:27] ongoing [17:27] din po [17:28] yung [17:28] press [17:28] conference [17:29] po [17:29] dun [17:29] sa taas [17:30] so [17:31] might [17:31] as well [17:32] mabuti [17:32] bumaba [17:33] na lang [17:33] sila [17:34] dito [17:34] para [17:34] ika [17:35] nga [17:35] may lahat [17:36] nila [17:36] yung [17:36] gusto [17:36] sabihin [17:37] matanong [17:38] po [17:38] natin [17:38] sila [17:38] maayos [17:39] unlike [17:40] po [17:40] dito [17:40] na [17:40] puro [17:41] press [17:41] conference [17:42] po [17:42] sila [17:43] so [17:43] committee [17:43] secretary [17:44] i'm directing [17:44] you to [17:45] send [17:46] one of your [17:46] staff [17:47] or your [17:47] personnel [17:48] to invite [17:49] or to [17:49] ask [17:50] senator [17:50] robin [17:51] padilla [17:51] inquire [17:52] if they're [17:52] still interested [17:53] coming down [17:54] here [17:54] sa blue [17:55] ribbon [17:55] hearing [17:56] po [17:57] natin [17:57] para [17:58] malinaw [17:58] on record [17:59] lahat [17:59] hindi [18:00] po [18:00] yung [18:00] bisita [18:01] po [18:01] ni [18:02] senator [18:02] robin [18:03] padilla [18:03] yung [18:03] labing [18:04] walong [18:04] bodyguard [18:05] na yun [18:06] at [18:06] si [18:06] attorney [18:06] baligod [18:07] at [18:08] nagbibigay [18:09] na sa [18:09] fifth floor [18:09] nagbibigay [18:10] po [18:10] ng [18:10] press [18:10] conference [18:11] ang [18:12] nagtatanong [18:13] lamang [18:13] po [18:13] ang [18:13] media [18:13] and [18:14] and [18:14] dito [18:14] po [18:14] tayo [18:15] lahat [18:15] gusto [18:15] po [18:15] natin [18:16] silang [18:16] matanong [18:16] at [18:17] marinig [18:17] ito [18:18] po [18:18] siguro [18:18] ang [18:18] tamang [18:19] venue [18:20] na [18:20] ikang [18:21] magpahayag [18:22] sila [18:22] hindi po [18:23] sa isang [18:23] media [18:24] conference [18:25] so [18:25] committee [18:25] secretary [18:26] go ahead [18:27] and send [18:27] someone [18:28] to [18:28] the [18:29] office [18:29] of [18:29] senator [18:30] robin [18:31] okay [18:31] let's [18:31] move [18:32] on [18:32] yung [18:33] order [18:34] of [18:34] arrival [18:34] po [18:35] ng [18:35] line [18:35] of [18:35] questioning [18:36] senator [18:36] jv [18:37] senator [18:38] baum [18:38] and [18:39] senator [18:41] jv [18:42] senator [18:42] baum [18:43] senator [18:43] risa [18:44] senator [18:44] soto [18:45] but [18:46] before [18:48] that [18:49] may [18:49] tatanong [18:50] po [18:50] yata [18:50] si [18:51] senate [18:51] pro [18:51] tempore [18:52] gatchelian [18:54] maraming [18:54] salamat [18:54] mr. [18:55] chairman [18:55] this is [18:57] directed [18:57] to [18:57] attorney [18:59] matibag [18:59] director [19:00] of the [19:00] nbi [19:01] meron [19:02] ho [19:02] kayong [19:03] mga [19:03] nasabi [19:05] sa [19:05] media [19:06] na merong [19:06] informant [19:07] actually [19:08] tutuloy [19:08] ko [19:08] lang [19:08] po [19:08] yung [19:09] tanong [19:10] ni [19:10] senator [19:11] rafi [19:12] na meron [19:12] kayong [19:13] informant [19:13] na [19:14] nagsabi [19:15] na [19:15] si [19:16] mike [19:16] defensor [19:17] ay [19:17] nag-offer [19:18] ng [19:18] 5 [19:18] million [19:19] pesos [19:19] dito [19:20] sa [19:20] 18 [19:21] bodyguards [19:22] can [19:22] you [19:23] give [19:23] us [19:23] a [19:24] narration [19:24] of [19:25] that [19:25] and [19:26] base [19:27] sa [19:27] inyong [19:28] statement [19:28] meron [19:28] rin [19:29] sinumpa [19:29] ang [19:29] salay [19:30] sa ito [19:30] meron [19:33] meron po [19:33] kasi [19:33] sa [19:34] NBI [19:34] we [19:35] function [19:35] na [19:35] meron [19:36] mga [19:36] tinatawag [19:37] kaming [19:37] all power [19:38] assets [19:38] na [19:39] nag-gather [19:40] po [19:40] ng mga [19:41] intelligence [19:41] support [19:42] yan [19:42] so [19:43] he came [19:44] across [19:44] dito [19:44] po [19:44] sa [19:45] parang [19:45] hindi [19:46] po [19:46] son [19:46] in-law [19:47] talaga [19:47] but [19:47] he [19:48] is [19:48] a [19:48] partner [19:48] of [19:49] the [19:49] daughter [19:49] nung [19:50] isa [19:51] sa [19:51] 18 [19:53] bodyguards [19:55] I think [19:56] siguro [19:56] for [19:57] purposes [19:58] na [19:58] mas [19:59] malinaw [20:00] pwede ko [20:01] na rin [20:01] siguro [20:02] bangitin [20:02] yung [20:02] pangalan [20:03] total [20:03] napadala [20:04] naman [20:04] namin [20:04] siya [20:04] ng [20:05] pangalan [20:07] si [20:07] Anselmo [20:08] Taberdo [20:09] yung isa [20:10] sa Marines [20:10] may anak [20:12] siya [20:13] at partner [20:13] niya [20:13] itong [20:14] nakausap [20:16] ng ating [20:16] mga [20:16] ahente [20:17] at [20:17] nagpahayag [20:18] siya [20:19] ng malayang [20:19] pahayag [20:20] recorded [20:20] din po [20:21] ito [20:21] noong [20:22] April [20:23] 28 [20:23] and I [20:23] will [20:24] also [20:24] submit [20:24] yung [20:26] parang [20:27] salaysay [20:28] niya [20:28] na [20:29] kanyang [20:29] pinirmahan [20:29] malayang [20:30] pinirmahan [20:30] na [20:31] ang [20:31] sinasabi [20:32] po [20:32] rito [20:32] sa [20:32] salaysay [20:33] na [20:34] itong [20:35] si [20:35] Anselmo [20:35] Taberdo [20:36] ay isa [20:37] sa mga [20:37] doon [20:38] sa [20:38] labing [20:38] walo [20:38] na [20:39] in-approach [20:40] ng [20:40] grupo [20:41] ni [20:41] Mike [20:41] Defensor [20:41] at [20:42] pinangakuan [20:42] ng [20:43] limang [20:43] milyong [20:44] piso [20:44] kapalit [20:45] ng [20:45] pagsasalita [20:46] ang [20:47] sinabi [20:48] malino [20:48] pa nga [20:48] po [20:49] sinabi [20:49] mag-a-appear [20:50] sa [20:50] media [20:50] at [20:51] magkakaroon [20:56] at [20:57] kaya [20:57] pinabanggit [20:58] niya [20:58] ito [20:58] personal [20:59] sa [20:59] kanya [20:59] sinabi [21:00] niya [21:00] na [21:00] silang [21:01] mag-a-partner [21:02] may anak [21:02] po silang [21:03] isa [21:03] ay pinangakuan [21:04] ng [21:04] 500,000 [21:06] para [21:06] makapag [21:07] negosyo [21:07] sila [21:08] so [21:08] ngayon [21:09] nung [21:09] tinatanong [21:10] yung [21:10] 500,000 [21:11] dun po [21:11] na [21:11] ikwento [21:12] na [21:12] ang [21:13] naibibigay [21:14] pa lang [21:14] daw [21:14] ay [21:15] 700,000 [21:16] pero [21:16] eventually [21:17] bumalik [21:18] po siya [21:18] noong [21:19] May 6 [21:20] sa [21:20] aming [21:21] pong [21:21] tanggapan [21:21] para [21:22] magdagdag [21:22] pa ng [21:23] kanyang [21:26] bibigay [21:27] talaga [21:27] yung [21:27] 700,000 [21:28] 350,000 [21:30] pa lang [21:30] yung [21:31] nabigay [21:31] at [21:32] utay-utay [21:32] pa po [21:33] itong [21:33] naibigay [21:34] so [21:34] noong pong [21:35] magkakaroon [21:36] ng [21:36] sila [21:38] nagpatawag [21:39] dito [21:39] noong [21:39] June [21:40] na [21:40] yung [21:40] pagdinig [21:41] po nila [21:42] rito [21:42] we [21:43] contact [21:43] itong [21:43] persona [21:44] ito [21:44] to [21:44] validate [21:45] ulit [21:46] at [21:46] katunayan [21:47] sinusurveel [21:48] at [21:48] sinusundan [21:49] ba [21:49] rin [21:49] naman [21:49] po [21:49] namin [21:50] siya [21:50] kasi [21:51] nga [21:51] po [21:51] kaibat [21:52] dito [21:52] nagpadala [21:53] na [21:53] kami [21:53] nang [21:54] sabi [21:54] na [21:54] kay [21:55] Mike [21:55] Defensor [21:56] at [21:56] kay [21:57] Anselmo [21:57] Taberdo [21:58] para [21:58] magbigay [21:59] lino po [22:00] dito [22:00] sa [22:00] testimonya [22:01] nitong [22:01] tao [22:02] na ito [22:02] yun [22:03] po [22:03] yung [22:03] sinasabi [22:03] natin [22:04] Mr. [22:04] Chair [22:05] na [22:05] lahat [22:05] po [22:05] ng [22:06] papasok [22:06] na [22:06] ebidensya [22:07] sa [22:07] amin [22:07] sa [22:07] NBI [22:08] binibigyang [22:08] halaga [22:09] namin [22:09] at [22:09] amin [22:10] sinusundan [22:10] Director [22:12] itong [22:13] can you [22:13] can you [22:14] state [22:14] the [22:14] name [22:14] of [22:14] this [22:15] informant [22:15] is [22:15] it [22:15] possible [22:16] sabihin [22:18] yung [22:24] Fred [22:26] Dragasa [22:27] Brent [22:28] po [22:29] and [22:30] pwede [22:33] rin [22:33] po ba [22:34] siyang [22:34] dalin [22:34] dito [22:35] para [22:35] magbigay [22:35] ng [22:36] personal [22:36] testimony [22:36] yun po [22:36] ang [22:37] pinapavalidate [22:38] namin [22:38] kung [22:38] kasi [22:39] tinatawagan [22:40] ang [22:40] huling [22:40] pakikipag-usap [22:41] po [22:41] sa aming [22:42] mga [22:42] investigador [22:44] ay [22:44] tinatawagan [22:45] siya [22:45] ngayon [22:45] ito [22:46] ni [22:46] Anselmo [22:47] Anselmo [22:47] Taberdo [22:48] is he [22:48] willing [22:49] to come [22:49] here [22:49] to give [22:50] his [22:50] testimony [22:50] ihalamin [22:51] po [22:51] namin [22:51] yun [22:51] po [22:52] itanong [22:52] namin [22:52] dahil [22:53] nung po [22:53] siya [22:53] kinuhuhan [22:56] na namin [22:56] ulit [22:56] ng [22:56] testimony [22:57] mukhang [22:59] sumasabay [22:59] na tinatawagan [23:00] sa bigla [23:01] po [23:01] Ano ang [23:01] motibo [23:02] naman [23:02] itong [23:03] taong [23:03] to? [23:05] Gusto [23:06] ko [23:06] malaman [23:06] bakit [23:07] siya [23:07] biglang [23:07] nagbigay [23:10] ng [23:10] ganitong [23:11] information [23:12] considering [23:12] na parang [23:13] son-in-law [23:14] siya [23:14] Tinitingnan [23:16] po namin [23:16] base sa [23:16] kwento [23:17] niya [23:17] mukhang [23:17] meron [23:18] ng [23:18] diferensya [23:18] yung [23:19] magka [23:19] partner [23:19] at [23:20] siya [23:20] ngayon [23:21] yung [23:21] may [23:21] dala [23:21] sa [23:21] anak [23:22] niya [23:23] so parang [23:23] may [23:23] personal [23:24] reason [23:24] po [23:25] na [23:25] tungkol [23:25] sa [23:26] kanilang [23:26] relasyon [23:27] at [23:27] maaaring [23:27] yung [23:27] isang [23:28] dahilan [23:28] pinag-iisipan [23:30] hindi [23:30] dumating [23:30] yung [23:31] talagang [23:31] pangako [23:31] na [23:32] 500,000 [23:33] bilang [23:33] parte [23:34] dun [23:34] sa [23:34] makukuha [23:35] dapat [23:35] na [23:36] 5 [23:36] milyong [23:36] piso [23:36] yung [23:38] parang [23:38] may [23:38] because [23:39] of [23:40] that [23:40] personal [23:40] circumstance [23:41] nagsalita [23:43] siya [23:44] doon [23:44] and [23:45] based [23:45] on your [23:46] analysis [23:46] itong [23:47] informant [23:48] is a [23:48] credible [23:49] witness [23:51] itong [23:52] si Ragasa [23:53] si Mr. Ragasa [23:54] Pag [23:54] pinalidate [23:55] po yung [23:55] kanyang [23:55] personal [23:56] circumstances [23:56] at [23:57] relationship [23:57] maari [23:58] po talagang [23:58] napagkwentuhan [23:59] doon na nga po [24:00] Mr. Chair [24:01] pumapasok yung [24:02] aming kagustuhan [24:03] na ipatawag [24:04] si Ansen [24:05] Notaverdo [24:05] at si Mike [24:06] Defensor [24:07] para po [24:07] mas mabigyang [24:08] linaw [24:09] yung testimony [24:09] yung [24:09] ibinibigay [24:10] nitong [24:10] tao [24:11] na ito [24:13] na [24:13] base [24:13] ba [24:14] dun [24:14] sa [24:14] information [24:14] na [24:15] consummate [24:16] ba [24:16] itong [24:16] 5 [24:17] million [24:17] na [24:17] ibigay [24:18] ba [24:18] hindi pa [24:18] po [24:18] lumalabas [24:19] po [24:19] sa [24:19] huling [24:20] statement [24:20] 350 [24:21] 350 [24:21] pa lang po [24:22] yung kabuang [24:23] natatanggap [24:23] pero [24:24] may mga [24:25] kwinento pa po [24:26] siya [24:26] na [24:26] siya [24:27] yung mga [24:28] lugar [24:29] kaya po [24:29] nagkaroon ng [24:30] credibility [24:31] sinunda namin [24:31] yung mga lugar [24:32] na binabanggit [24:33] kung nasaan [24:34] yung [24:34] labing walo [24:35] e tumutog [24:36] mapuro sa [24:36] kanyang [24:37] storya [24:38] and [24:39] nasaan na itong [24:40] taong to [24:41] is he [24:41] under [24:42] NBI [24:43] custody [24:43] wala po [24:44] sa aming [24:44] custody [24:45] pero [24:45] alam po [24:47] namin [24:47] kung saan [24:48] siya [24:48] nakatira [24:48] dati po [24:49] nasa [24:49] tagig [24:50] lumipat [24:50] po ng [24:50] tirahan [24:51] at amin po [24:51] siyang [24:52] minamanmanan [24:52] po [24:53] nakasurveillance [24:53] po [24:54] and then [24:54] gusto ko lang [24:56] po rin [24:56] matanong [24:57] itong [24:57] informant [24:59] na ito [24:59] nag [25:00] person [25:00] nag [25:01] anbo siya [25:03] nag appear [25:04] personally [25:04] sa NBI [25:05] opo [25:06] dalawang beses [25:07] po [25:07] katunayan [25:08] nung isang beses [25:09] nagpunta siya [25:09] mayroon pang [25:10] isang media [25:10] personality [25:11] na nakapang cover [25:12] po sa kanya [25:12] at recorded [25:13] po lahat [25:14] ang kanya [25:15] pong pagdalo [25:15] sa NBI [25:16] pasabit na lang [25:17] sa committee [25:18] rin [25:18] in confidence [25:19] jan [25:21] nimbabt na lang [25:21] disapus [25:21] cabtalo [25:22] na na lang