BIGNEWS:TOP Senator Camille Villar may pasabog Witness nagsisinungaling?

[0:07] Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer, and thank you. [0:11] Good afternoon, Attorney Cabrera. [0:13] Good afternoon, ma'am. [0:14] Yes, good afternoon. [0:15] There are only a few clarificatory questions. [0:19] Here in your forensic report, [0:24] I will send you the different tables. [0:27] So, there is only one that you can see, [0:30] and I just want to clarify. [0:32] Let's start with the main amount, [0:36] and how we arrived at the main amount. [0:39] Here on table 39, page 37, [0:43] you have a total undeclared, right? [0:47] Then, the total, [0:49] the total of all people mentioned, [0:53] a few million. [0:55] I can see that we have the first column [1:00] that's total undeclared cash. [1:02] Then, the second column, [1:04] a section two is the total undeclared [1:06] other personal and real properties. [1:09] Section three po, [1:11] yun po'y under undeclared assets. [1:15] Tapos, under undeclared income naman po, [1:17] section three, merong total undeclared income of the couple. [1:22] And then, section four is the computed undeclared income of Calye 88 and Metro City. [1:30] And then, total computed undeclared income po of Gencorp. [1:34] So, ang napansin ko po dito, [1:36] dito sa second section two, [1:39] itong total undeclared and other personal and real properties po, [1:44] sa year 2022, [1:47] ang amount po ay 76,147,730. [1:52] So, forgive me, sinusuri ko po to [1:54] kasi napakalaki po ng amount. [1:56] So, habang naghihintay po, [1:58] binasa ko po yung report nyo kung paano nyo na-derive. [2:01] Kasi gusto ko po tingnan kung gaano pa ka solid [2:04] or saan po nanggaling ang ating mga numbers. [2:07] So, binalikan ko po yung page 10 ng ating report [2:15] sa interest in businesses. [2:18] Tapos, dito na, [2:20] dito natin pinag-uusapan yung Gencorp. [2:24] Kasi yung section two, [2:26] ay sorry, page 12 po pala. [2:29] I found out that you were able to find [2:31] yung total undeclared personal other than cash assets [2:37] is you added the investments in 2022, [2:42] the insurance, hindi po ba? [2:45] Tama po. [2:46] And then, yung firearms, wala po. [2:48] And then, itong interest in businesses, diba? [2:51] Tapos, sinabtrak nyo po yung nasa sal-in. [2:54] Kaya po kayo nag-arrive sa 76,147,730. [3:00] Ito po yung sa page 12. [3:02] Tama po. [3:03] Okay. [3:04] So, ito naman pong 76 million ay forms is composed of, [3:15] yun nga, yun ang sinabi natin. [3:17] Ito naman, section C, yung interest in business na 44 million. [3:22] Ang in-add nyo po yung paid-up capital and advances from shareholders. [3:27] So, this is on table 14, page 10. [3:30] Hindi po ba? [3:31] Tama po. [3:32] Okay. [3:33] So, nakalagay po dito, 2022, [3:35] ang paid-up capital po ay 35,359,375. [3:41] Advances from shareholders is 8,787,500. [3:45] Tapos, ang sinabi nyo pong total interest in business na hindi na-declare is 44,146,875. [3:57] Hindi po ba? [3:58] Tama po. [3:59] Okay. [4:00] Okay. [4:02] So, hindi ko na po masyadong natingnan yung advances from shareholders. [4:05] Pero nakita ko po yung paid-up capital of 2022 of 35,359,375. [4:19] So, dito po naintindihan ko po yung sa year 2022, this is table 15 naman po. [4:26] Ang linagay nyo pong paid-up capital by VP Sara is 300,000 pesos po. [4:33] And I suppose, did you get this from the GIS? [4:36] Apo. [4:37] Okay. [4:38] And yung paid-up capital po by the spouse? [4:43] Sa GIS din po. [4:44] Sa GIS din po. Okay po. [4:46] Yung calculated capital contribution to GenCorp na 35 million, [4:52] nabasa ko po dito na, [4:54] yung nabasa ko po dito is, [4:57] una, you found out through receipts na GenCorp owns five Jollibee branches throughout Davao. [5:06] Hindi po ba? [5:07] Tama po. [5:08] Yes. So, okay naman yun. [5:10] Pero yung itong 35 million po na ito ay basically, [5:14] hinanap nyo po sa internet, sa Jollibee website po, [5:18] at nakita nyo na ang franchise would cost anywhere between 35 to 55 million. [5:27] Tama po. [5:28] Yun po, hindi po ba? [5:29] Tapos, yeah, it said, I read here, you said, [5:33] desktop research from Jollibee's official website shows an initial franchise between 35 to 55 million. [5:41] And then, you conservatively assigned 35 million pesos. [5:46] Tama po. [5:47] Tama po. [5:49] So, ang way of computing nyo po is, sabi nyo, 35 million. [5:54] Inestimate nyo from the website na 35 million ang isang franchise, [5:59] may notify nyo po by five, so 175 million. [6:03] And then, you assumed. [6:05] 20%. [6:06] You deduced. [6:07] And how did you deduce this? [6:08] Yun po. [6:10] Yung tulad po nung napaliwanag ko po kanina, [6:13] ginamit po namin yung 20% attributed rate. [6:19] Dahil po sa maraming factors po. [6:22] Yung relationship po nila ni Jaime Tan. [6:25] But this isn't in the GIS or there's no paperwork. [6:29] Wala po. [6:30] Walang paperwork po na nagsasabi. [6:32] Kung makikita nyo po. [6:33] Yes. [6:34] Estimate. [6:35] Hudyat po yan eh. [6:36] Hudyat. [6:37] Sa report, kahiwalay po si GenCorp. [6:38] Okay. [6:39] Ba't po namin gagawin? [6:40] Kasi po, binibigay po namin sa mga judges, [6:44] Honorable Sen. Judges ang pagkakataon. [6:46] Opo. [6:47] Kung gusto nyo po itong pick up and o hindi. [6:49] Okay. [6:50] Alright. [6:51] So, this is... [6:52] So, ang caveat mo doon is that you estimated. [6:57] Ito po yung estimate based on your maybe expertise. [7:01] Ito po yung amount na sinasabi nyo na... [7:04] Hindi po siya estimate in the sense of an estimate. [7:08] Ano po siya? [7:09] Sensitivity analysis po. [7:11] How did you do the sensitivity analysis? [7:13] Opo. [7:14] Yung sensitivity analysis po. [7:15] Halimbawa po yung patay po. [7:18] At mainit-init pa. [7:21] Parang matatansya mo yung kung kailan siya namatay. [7:25] Kung kailan nag-efect yung lason. [7:27] So, ito naman po. [7:28] Yung sensitivity analysis. [7:29] Kailangan po namin balikan yung historical facts. [7:33] Yung kanila pong partnership with the IMT Cruz, et cetera, et cetera. [7:38] Okay. [7:39] So, yun yun. [7:40] So, based on your sensitivity analysis. [7:44] Yun lang naman. [7:45] Kaya po 20%. [7:46] Kaya po 35 million po ang linagay nyo sa... [7:50] 35 million po. [7:53] Yun po. [7:54] Pero dun po sa 35 million, for example. [7:57] Kasi balik po tayo sa... [7:59] Paano natin... [8:00] Paano natin even na-estimate na 35 million yung in-invest sa isang Jollibee? [8:06] Kasi pwede naman pong 35 million. [8:09] Pwede rin naman pong nakalagay dito. [8:11] Pwedeng 100... [8:13] Ay! [8:14] Pwedeng 55 million. [8:15] Pwede pong... [8:16] Do you know kung anong taon po binuksan yung limang stores? [8:21] Meron po kaming... [8:23] Wala po kaming data on kailan po siya binuksan. [8:26] So, you... [8:27] Pero ang ginamit po namin, kaya po namin tinawag na conservative. [8:31] Kasi yung 35 million po, yun po yung pinakamababa ng Jollibee. [8:34] Yes. [8:35] Tapos kung ang pag-uusapan lang po natin ay strictly capital. [8:38] Hindi pa po tapos ang 35 million. [8:40] O, kaya lang po naisip ko po. [8:42] Halimbawa, sa 2022 ba binuksan yung unang Jollibee? [8:47] Ay, medyo hindi ko po alam ang data. [8:50] Kaya po, nanansya po. [8:52] Pero ito po yung point dito eh. [8:54] At nabanggit ko rin po kanina. [8:56] O, pero yun lang naman po ang tanong ko. [8:58] Salamat po. [8:59] Yun po, estimate lang naman po. [9:00] Sige po. [9:01] Sige po. [9:02] Yun lang naman. [9:03] Parang that's your estimate. [9:04] Conservative estimate po ang tawag ko po na. [9:05] Yes, that's your conservative estimate. [9:07] So, it could be less, it could be more. [9:11] It could be more, it couldn't be less. [9:12] Yun po yung estimate ko. [9:13] Kung mali po yun, mali. [9:15] Okay, okay. [9:16] Kaya ko po tinatawag na conservative. [9:18] Okay. [9:19] Hindi po ba baba dun ang value po nung investment niya po. [9:24] Are you sure? [9:25] Can you say with certainty na hindi baba ba sa 35 million? [9:30] Hindi po baba yung value po nung investment niya po. [9:33] Paano kung she acquired it for less? [9:39] Ay, the company acquired it for less. [9:41] Actually, Gencorp acquired it for less. [9:45] Certain po ba tayo na less than 35 million yung na-invest nila? [9:55] Na-invest nung kumpanya. [9:57] And if you wanna pierce the corporate veil, maybe even the respondent. [10:01] But perhaps that's a reach. [10:03] Opo. [10:04] Yung pinagbabasayan ko po na hindi po bababa. [10:07] Kasi po marami pa pong kailangan ang isang kumpanya po sa pag-start po. [10:12] Yun lang po yung basis. [10:14] In-explain ko lang po kung ano po yung ibig sabihin ng conservative approach. [10:19] Ang ibig sabihin ng conservative, [10:21] tin ko na po yun na po yung pinakamababa. [10:23] Kung mali po ako, ay mali po ako. [10:25] Okay. [10:26] That's your opinion po. [10:28] So, that's your conservative estimate. [10:31] But wala po tayong document or anything na nakita like a agreement between Gencorp and Jollibee [10:39] as to the total investment that was made or the acquisition. [10:43] Meron po ba tayong nakita? [10:45] Wala po Honorable Judge Villar. [10:46] Okay. [10:47] Kulang po ang oras eh. [10:48] Kulang po ang oras talaga. [10:49] Yes. [10:50] Okay. [10:51] So, yun lamang po. [10:52] And meron po ba tayong any other document po na nakita other than the receipts that we used? [11:09] Like, I know you estimated based on your analysis, your sensitivity analysis. [11:14] I'm just asking if there was any document used that we saw that could further strengthen yung calculated capital niyo po. [11:23] Wala na po. [11:24] Okay. [11:25] So, in effect, so at least with this column, at least for year 2022, dun po sa calculated capital contribution of Gencorp na falls under interest in businesses and falls under the total and that forms part of the total undeclared personal and other cash. [11:49] This is based on your analysis. [11:52] Tama po. [11:53] So, wala po tayong document na nagsasabi kung magkano talaga. [11:58] Opo. Wala pong malino na document na nagsasabi kung… [12:01] Kung magkano yung contributed ng Gencorp. [12:06] And for that matter, I saw nga po na dun po sa audited financial statements of Gencorp ay mababa rin yung income nila after. [12:15] So, hindi po tayo sure. Pwedeng inutang po, pwedeng nanggaling from somewhere else. [12:20] Pwede po yun, pero hindi po tayo sure. [12:22] Opo. Pero yung mababa po yung income nila after, dun po kami may malaking katanungan. [12:27] Okay. Well, tinatanong ko lang. [12:29] Yun lang naman. I can end there. [12:30] So, again, I just wanted to highlight that at least pertaining to the 2022 calculated capital contribution to Gencorp na 35 million, wala po tayong document proving that. [12:44] And you cannot say with certainty, and as a fact, yun ang na-contribute na capital sa Gencorp nung respondent. [12:58] Apo. Attribution po. Attributed capital lang po. [13:00] Attributed. Yun lang. So, hindi po kayo sure. So, yun lamang po. Maraming salamat po. [13:05] Thank you, Senator Judge Camille. What is the pleasure of the Honorable Jokno? [13:09] I just know if the witness would need to take a bathroom break or stretch his legs before we continue. If that is okay with the Honorable Court and the defense. [13:19] I'm... Maraming salamat po, Honorable Shell. I'm okay po, Honorable Presiding Officer. [13:26] Kung sakasakali po, magsabi lang kayo. [13:28] Maraming salamat. [13:29] Dahil may mga iba papuntes ligong gagamit niyang witness box. [13:32] Maraming salamat po. [13:35] Sabi po kayo at huwag kayo mag-atubili. [13:37] Apo. Idol ko po si Atty. Ronel eh. [13:40] Yes. Senator Judge Pia Cayetano is recognized. [13:43] Okay. [13:44] You may proceed, ma'am, when you're ready. [13:45] You have a variable period of two minutes thereafter to avail of the first round Senator Judge Padilla [13:51] before the Senator Judge's avail of their second round.