Bid to present Matibag deferred amid objection from senators, defense

[0:00] What is the pleasure of the Honorable Defensor, one of the members of the panel of prosecutors? [0:06] You may proceed, sir. [0:07] Thank you, Your Honours. [0:09] Your Honours, before we proceed with the examination of our second witness, [0:14] Your Honours, the prosecution is in receipt of a letter dated July 10, 2026 [0:20] from NBI Director Melvin A. Matibag requesting that his testimony [0:26] be scheduled or calendared at the earliest setting, [0:31] considering that the National Bureau of Investigation, Your Honours, [0:34] has been invited by the Federal Bureau of Investigation [0:37] in coordination with the Royal Thai Police [0:41] for a regional summit on scam-centered compounds and transnational organized crime. [0:48] In that regard, Your Honour, the prosecution would like to request [0:52] that the scheduled testimony of NBI Director Melvin Matibag [0:56] be scheduled tomorrow after the testimony of our second witness, [1:01] Attorney Jeremy A. Lotto. [1:04] After the testimony of your second witness? [1:10] Yes, Your Honours. [1:11] But the supposed witness scheduled for tomorrow is Attorney Zulaika Lopez [1:18] for the gentleman's manifestation in the last hearing? [1:21] That's correct, Your Honour. [1:22] After we have dispensed with the testimony of NBI Director Matibag, [1:26] we can proceed with the schedule of witnesses as provided in the list [1:31] to the Senator Judges last week, Your Honours. [1:33] To include Captain Belio, if I'm not mistaken? [1:37] Yes, we can proceed with Attorney Lopez and Captain Belio [1:40] as manifested last week, Your Honours. [1:42] What is the pleasure of Senator Judge Cayetano, Alan? [1:45] Mr. Presiding Officer, if no one objects, I will not object to having Director Matibag yesterday. [1:54] But maybe as a caution to government officials, my good friend, Congressman Defensor, [2:02] I read over the weekend that Director Matibag is writing because he is to be in a convention [2:11] meeting the FBI next week. [2:13] So actually, we're going to be here 30 weeks. [2:17] We have put aside many, many important things. [2:21] We have put aside many foreign trips, many local trips, whether it's to help dun sa tinamaan [2:28] ng Lindol sa Mindanao or tinatamaan ng Baha ngayon. [2:33] Because we have to be here 2 o'clock until matapos tayo every Monday to Wednesday, [2:39] then after the sauna every Tuesday to Wednesday. [2:41] I find it in bad taste that a bureau head will dictate to us that he's not available [2:48] next week. [2:49] I was Secretary of Foreign Affairs. [2:53] That's why you have undersecretaries. [2:55] That's why you have Deputy Director. [2:58] So I mean, I admire the patience of the prosecution. [3:06] But even the prosecution, they have a way of timing and laying down the witnesses. [3:16] So I don't want later on to say na, eh, dapat natanong ko muna to sa una witness. [3:22] Kaya lang si Director Matibag inuna dahil ganito, ganyan. [3:26] So I'd like to put that on record and ask my colleagues if that's acceptable to us. [3:32] I mean, yung Bente, well, at least those who are not in jail or the 21 of us are here. [3:42] The whole government nakatutok. [3:45] We put aside so many important things. [3:48] And then one witness who is in the government, who is a bureau head, [3:53] will tell us, sorry, but because he has to be with the FBI, siya na yung mauna tomorrow. [3:59] That might be a bad precedent, Mr. Presiding Officer. [4:06] May I be allowed to give a reply? [4:09] Can you please respond to the point of Senator Judge Alan Cayetano? [4:13] With due respect to the Honorable Senator Judge Alan Peter Cayetano, [4:17] we will always respect the decision of the Honorable Court. [4:21] However, we will only be advancing his testimony one day [4:24] based on the subpoena that we have requested the Honorable Court. [4:28] He is scheduled to testify until Wednesday and that we will not disrupt the scheduled list of witnesses. [4:35] We will simply advance it one day. [4:37] Would you respect, Congressman Representative Defensor? [4:43] I asked that question poignantly last week. [4:48] If Matibag will be one of your witnesses for this week and you said no. [4:52] In fact, you corrected Attorney Ligutan when he mentioned Director Matibag as one of your witnesses [4:58] and instead gave me a list of Lotok, Zulaika Lopez, and Captain Belio. [5:08] Matibag was not included. [5:10] In fact, I don't think we issued a subpoena for Director Matibag for this week, [5:18] given your manifestation after you took over, [5:21] given that you have, as you said, control and supervision over the council for the prosecutors. [5:26] So he's not in your list this week. [5:29] He's not being advanced for a day, sir. [5:31] May I respond, Your Honours? [5:33] Please do so. [5:33] Your Honours, that's correct. [5:34] I gave a list of witnesses scheduled for Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, however, Your Honour. [5:39] To add, I also added that since NBI Director Matibag has been requested for a subpoena to testify within the week, [5:49] I also added in my statement that we will inform the Honourable Court which day we can present the Honourable Matibag, [5:56] and I was expecting him to be presented on Wednesday after the testimony of Captain Belinda Belio, Your Honours. [6:03] I confirm that, but the situation is, given the one witness per day rule that we supposedly have under the rules of court, [6:14] no subpoena has yet been issued to Director Matibag to appear this week. [6:20] Can the Clerk of Court kindly confirm that for us on the record? [6:25] No subpoena has been issued for NBI Director Matibag. [6:28] May I respond, Your Honour? [6:30] Senator Judge Alan Cayetano is recognised. [6:33] Actually, my statement and my question to the court is not really addressed to the prosecution. [6:40] You will have to do the best you can to represent, you know, what you're fighting for, no? [6:47] So, I commend you for adjusting, but my recollection is, because I'm also waiting for his testimony, [6:56] and my recollection last week is that we will not see him this week. [7:00] And I think 11 days, no? 11 days ang... [7:04] That's correct, Your Honour. [7:05] ...sa article na to. So, we're on day 4. [7:08] So, kung hindi siya pwedeng next week, that's day 7, 8, 9. [7:15] Again, I don't want to dictate sa prosecution or ano, [7:18] but to suddenly say na tomorrow na siya, [7:22] when I'm preparing for our oral argument tomorrow and the other witnesses, [7:27] it's a little bit, it's a small inconvenience for today. [7:30] But I hope it doesn't become a rule, especially for a bureau head. [7:35] I mean, if no one else objects, but if someone objects, [7:38] I don't think it's really a good rule. [7:40] You know, rules are important. [7:42] I'll have to keep, you say, technicalities. [7:45] No, rules are important. [7:46] So, even yung notice, we agreed on, presiding officer, [7:49] three day ba? Five day notice? [7:51] Five days for witnesses not mentioned in the pre-trial order. [7:55] And then three days kapag... [7:56] Three days, given the fact that we will be announcing the witnesses [8:00] for the following week on the last day. [8:02] Yeah, anyway, I said my piece, [8:04] but I hope we will not be able to move faster [8:07] if we have to accommodate the witnesses, [8:10] especially if they're in government. [8:12] May I add something, Your Honour? [8:13] Before, the Honourable Defensor, [8:16] presiding officer would like to hear [8:17] from the counsel for the respondents. [8:19] Attorney Bin-Luan, what say you? [8:21] Yes, Your Honour. [8:22] We would have to oppose on the basis of the following. [8:26] Number one, it will be in violation, Your Honour, [8:28] of the impeachment court's directive [8:30] that was given last week, [8:32] insofar as the identities of the witnesses, [8:35] as well as the order of the presentation. [8:38] Number two, Your Honour, it will be, again, [8:40] as mentioned by Senator Judge Caetano, [8:42] a violation of the five-day notice rule. [8:44] Since while he was subpoenaed the week before, Your Honour, [8:50] we are learning that he will be presented this week, [8:52] so the five-day notice will not be observed. [8:57] Number three, the prosecution cannot compel also [9:01] the defense and this impeachment court [9:04] to present witnesses according to their schedule, [9:08] considering also that these witnesses have already been identified [9:13] and determined. [9:15] Of course, it will be a violation of the basic tenets of fair play. [9:20] And to join, again, the manifestation of Senator Judge Caetano, [9:26] it will set a bad precedent. [9:28] And so far, surprise witnesses will be allowed [9:31] at any point of the proceedings. [9:33] Number five would be, [9:35] it will also violate our right to cross-examine intelligently. [9:39] We have done our best to prepare for their witnesses. [9:42] However, these last-minute changes [9:44] really affect the preparation, involve Your Honour, [9:47] and in so far as laying down the case [9:50] that we want to establish. [9:51] And finally, if there are violations [9:53] of these preceding rights, [9:55] there will be a violation of procedural due process, [9:58] which, of course, can give way to another ground [10:02] to further delay the proceedings. [10:05] Moreover, Your Honour, [10:06] if the prosecution would also allow, [10:10] can we also get a copy, Your Honour, [10:12] of that invitation, [10:14] and maybe inquire of the prosecution [10:16] if the particular travel authority [10:19] has already been made. [10:21] Because, Your Honour, [10:23] we received information as well [10:25] that the FBI had already conducted [10:29] a summit, a regional summit of some sort, [10:34] but it was conducted in June of, [10:38] in other words, last month, Your Honour. [10:41] Also in Bangkok, Thailand. [10:43] So, we would have to, again, manifest, [10:46] and we would have to study, Your Honour, [10:48] the invitation, [10:49] and counter-check, [10:51] and do the proper verification as well. [10:53] So that, if it is indeed viable, [10:56] then we would understand, Your Honour, [10:58] why it has to be attended to [11:00] by Director Matiba. [11:02] Senate President Gatchel Yanis, [11:04] recognized. [11:05] You may proceed, sir. [11:06] Thank you. [11:06] Thank you, Mr. Presiding Officer. [11:08] Sino-supportahan ko po yung statement [11:10] ni Senator Judge Allen Cayetano. [11:14] Dahil, hindi lang naman po yung [11:15] councils ng prosecution at defense [11:18] na nag-ahanda. [11:19] Pati mo mga Senator Judges [11:21] nag-ahanda rin. [11:22] At sa totoo lang ho, [11:24] itong weekend, [11:25] marami rin sa ating mga Senator Judges [11:28] ay pinag-aaralan kung ano yung [11:29] kanilang maitatanong sa mga testigong [11:31] ihaharap ho ngayong linggo. [11:35] Marami po ay pinag-aaralan po yung mga [11:37] ebedensyang in-upload na ho [11:39] para po sa ating mga Senator Judges. [11:41] At hindi ho ito konting ebedensya, [11:43] pinag-uusapan ho natin dito. [11:45] Libo-libong mga papel at libo-libong mga ebedensya. [11:50] Kaya kung bigla pong may isisingit [11:52] na testigo, [11:54] hindi ho rin makakahanda po [11:55] yung ating mga Senator Judges [11:57] sa kanilang pagtatanong. [11:59] At hindi rin ho nilang mababasa [12:01] yung mga dokumento at ebedensya [12:04] na nakakabit ho doon sa testigong ihaharap. [12:08] Kaya napakahirap naman po [12:10] na naghahanda ho tayo, [12:12] pero biglang may mga ganitong suppression [12:14] na hindi ho natin paghahandaan. [12:16] At hindi naman ho yan [12:17] magiging maayos at patas [12:19] para po sa ating mga Senator Judges. [12:22] Namin, salamat po. [12:23] For the record, [12:24] Chair would like to confirm the statement [12:26] of the Honorable Defensor. [12:28] I will quote, [12:30] President Officer, [12:31] quote, [12:31] So Director Matipag [12:33] is not yet going to be presented next week. [12:35] Representative Defensor, [12:37] not yet, Your Honor. [12:38] We will manifest on Monday. [12:40] If we can consider him [12:42] for the Wednesday session, [12:44] depending on how the trial goes [12:46] and how long the testimonies [12:48] will take for [12:49] both parties. [12:53] With the permission of Senators, [12:55] Senator Judge Cayetano [12:56] and the Senate President, [12:58] may we defer our ruling [12:59] on this matter [13:00] and ask the Council [13:01] for the prosecution [13:02] to submit to us [13:03] the letter given to you [13:06] by Director Matipag [13:08] for us to be able [13:10] to look at it, [13:11] copy furnished, [13:12] of course, [13:12] the Council for the Respondent [13:14] so that we can adequately [13:15] go over it [13:17] and hopefully come up [13:18] with a ruling [13:19] before the day is over. [13:20] Would that be possible? [13:22] We will submit the letter. [13:23] Thank you, Your Honor. [13:24] So we shall do it that way. [13:26] Kindly furnish a copy [13:27] to the Council [13:28] for the Respondents [13:29] as well for their review. [13:30] Yes, Your Honor. [13:30] Council for Respondent, [13:32] Attorney Vinluen's [13:33] manifestation. [13:33] Your Honor, [13:33] if the Travel Authority [13:36] is also available, [13:38] if we can ask [13:39] for a copy. [13:40] Travel Authority, [13:41] if it's already issued. [13:42] Yes, of course. [13:43] Kindly furnish us [13:44] that as well. [13:46] Your Honors, [13:46] we will submit in good faith [13:48] whatever the prosecution [13:49] has received [13:50] from Director Matibag, [13:52] Your Honor. [13:52] As well as... [13:53] Kindly communicate with him [13:55] if possible, [13:56] if he already has [13:57] a travel authority [13:58] for the SIN [14:00] so that we could evaluate it [14:02] based on what you have. [14:03] We cannot evaluate it [14:04] based on what you don't have. [14:05] So we will presume [14:06] if you don't have it, [14:07] it's not yet there. [14:08] Your Honor, [14:09] one last addition. [14:10] considering that there's [14:12] if and when they provide [14:14] the Travel Authority, [14:15] I understand, [14:16] Your Honor, [14:16] that one of the requirements [14:17] is also the official invitation [14:19] from the foreign body. [14:21] So if they can also [14:22] provide that, [14:23] Your Honor, [14:23] so that we can do [14:24] a full review [14:25] of this matter. [14:26] Attorney Vinluen, [14:26] it's not really [14:27] for the full review [14:28] of the Council [14:28] for the prosecution, [14:29] but rather for [14:30] this Court's evaluation [14:31] whether or not [14:31] to allow the motion [14:32] of the Council [14:34] or panel of prosecutors. [14:36] But everything [14:37] that will be submitted [14:38] to us, [14:39] you will be furnished [14:40] with a copy [14:40] so that you can argue [14:42] your way [14:43] through this motion [14:45] before we decide on it. [14:47] So ordered.