Bernie Sanders says Michigan primary is about taking on ‘AIPAC money’: Full interview

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: And joining me now is Independent Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont. Senator Sanders, welcome back to Meet the Press. [00:00:08] Bernie Sanders: Good to be with you. [00:00:10] Speaker 1: It's wonderful to have you back, particularly ahead of these big elections coming up on Tuesday. I do want to start, though, with the state of play for the Democratic Party. You really were one of the top people who brought democratic socialism into the mainstream, Senator. And a new poll finds that one third of Democratic-leaning voters now identify as Democratic Socialists. And we've seen, quite frankly, Democratic Socialists win in primaries throughout this election cycle so far. But are you confident that Democratic Socialists can win in general elections in purple states? [00:00:47] Bernie Sanders: Well, I am, but I'm mostly confident that the American people know that our country today is moving in a very, very bad direction. At a time when we have more income and wealth inequality than we've ever had in the history of America. What's going on now makes the gilded age of Rockefeller look like a egalitarian utopia. What's going on now is that millions of our people right now in the richest country on earth, they're struggling to put food on the table, pay for health care, pay for their rent, pay for their mortgage. You've got half of older workers who have nothing in savings as they face retirement. You're facing seeing kids unable to afford to go to college in the richest country in the history of the world. So people all over America are looking around and saying, hey, wait a minute, the very richest people are becoming richer. Elon Musk himself, one man, owns more wealth by far than the bottom half of American households. What in God's name is going on? And people look at the Republican leadership and Donald Trump and they say, you know, this guy's worried about a reflecting pool. I can't afford my retirement. He's starting a war in Iran, costing us huge amounts of money, killing innocent people. 18 American servicemen are dead. What are they doing? And then you look at the Democratic Party leadership, which also gets their money, like the Republicans, from very wealthy people. And people are saying, is the Democratic leadership representing ordinary Americans? And I think it's people who look at the Republicans, they say, no, they're out of touch. Look at the Democratic leadership, say, no, they're out of touch. We need a government, a radical idea that works for all people and not just for wealthy campaign contributors. And that's why from New York City with Mondani and in Colorado and in California and in Montana, I think you're going to see it in Michigan. People are saying enough is enough. You know, let's get a government that represents all of us. And I've got to tell you something, Kristen, that part of the exasperation that the American people are feeling, it's not just that an economy which is rigged, they're looking at a corrupt, underlined corrupt campaign finance system. And what you're seeing in Michigan right now is AIPAC, other billionaire-funded super PACs putting tens and tens of millions of dollars against Abdul El-Sayed in Minnesota, against Peggy Flanagan, same thing. So you've got billionaires buying elections, government working for the billionaires, and ordinary people saying, we want change. And that is why progressives, democratic socialists are doing so well all over this country. They've got an agenda that speaks to the needs of working families. They're prepared to stand up to the oligarchs. [00:03:30] Speaker 1: Let's talk about Michigan. You raised it. Your endorsed candidate, Dr. Abdul El-Sayed, is running against Congresswoman Haley Stevens. Since she is backed by much of the Democratic establishment that you're talking about, Senator, how confident are you that he's going to win on Tuesday? Can he pull out a victory? [00:03:49] Bernie Sanders: Look, he has taken on—I've never—you know, I'm not a political scientist. I cannot recall where a major candidate was outspent so much by super PACs. I mean, they're spending tens and tens of millions of dollars against him. The polling recently looks good, but polls don't win elections, people do. So I would hope that in Michigan and later next week in Minnesota, people understand the importance of this election. What's it about? It's not just whether Abdul can win or not, beat Haley Stevens. The question is whether or not we live in a democratic society where a candidate fighting for working people can take on tens and tens of millions of dollars of AIPAC money, special interest money. And I hope very much that Abdul wins. And I'll tell you why in a kind of selfish reason. Everybody in America understands that our current health care system is totally broken. We're spending unbelievable amounts of money, twice as much per capita as the people of any other country. Eighty-five million uninsured, underinsured, prices way high. Dr. El-Sayed is somebody I need in the Senate as he fights for Medicare fall. He's a doctor. He has seen the broken health care system. We need him to make sure that every man, woman, and child in this country has health care as a human right, as is the case in every other major country on earth. [00:05:10] Speaker 1: Well, and as you know, Senator, it is going to be very hard for Democrats to win back the Senate if they do not win the state of Michigan. This is Senator Gary Peter's seat that we're talking about. He's backing Haley Stevens. He argued that she's the more electable candidate. Here's what he said, Senator. You have to have a candidate who understands that winning a general election doesn't mean just turning out Democrats. You also have to appeal to a broader cross-section of your state. And Michigan is a true purple state. What do you think, Dr. El-Sayed, will have to do in order to turn out moderates and independents to win a general election if he does win on Tuesday? [00:05:51] Bernie Sanders: Well, I think Gary makes a good point. And the reason I think that Dr. El-Sayed will win in Michigan is that if you're a working-class Republican, you know what? You can't afford health care. You know the system is broken. You are struggling to figure out how you're going to retire with dignity. You understand that the current campaign finance system is broken. You understand that workers need decent wages, and El-Sayed is fighting for a livable minimum wage. And by the way, if you're a Republican, you know, maybe we should be investing our money into Michigan, into Vermont, into America, rather than giving the extremist government of Netanyahu in Israel tens of billions of dollars to continue their atrocities against the Palestinians. You take it to my next question. I think if you're a working-class Republican in Michigan, I think you're going to listen to what El-Sayed says. You're going to—and I think many of them will end up voting for him. Independence as well, of course. [00:06:55] Speaker 1: Okay, and I want to follow up on what you just said. Dr. El-Sayed has made Israel a central issue in his primary. He said he, quote, often struggles with the question of whether Israel has the right to exist as a Jewish state. In the past, Senator, you have been quite clear that you do support Israel as a Jewish state. Should Dr. El-Sayed speak with the same clarity? [00:07:20] Bernie Sanders: Look, I think right now the immediate issue of the moment is whether or not we continue to put tens of billions of dollars into the extremist Netanyahu government, which has killed 75,000 Palestinians, mostly women and children, wounded 150,000, destroyed their infrastructure. And what the American people are saying, overwhelmingly Democrats, many independents, the majority of—and many Republicans, especially younger Republicans, we've got better things to do without money than to continue to fund the military of Israel. [00:07:57] Speaker 1: All right, a number of more questions to get through with you. I do want to talk about Maine. Democrats have now replaced Graham Plattner as the Senate Democratic nominee with former state Senator Troy Jackson. Graham Plattner's candidacy, of course, as you know, was derailed by a series of controversies. And when he dropped out, the party only had a matter of days to settle on a replacement. Are you confident that Troy Jackson has been fully vetted, Senator? [00:08:25] Bernie Sanders: Well, I was not involved in that process at all. I mean, as you indicated, they had to move very, very quickly. And I think the Maine Democratic Party did the best they could under difficult circumstances. All I could say is I have known Troy for a number of years. He is a fifth-generation logger. You want a working-class voice in Washington, D.C., Troy is certainly that voice. I have seen his platform. It is a strong platform, standing up for working families, taking on the oligarchs, fighting for Medicare. For all, Maine, like Vermont, is an older state. He understands that we have to make sure that we do not cut Social Security benefits. In fact, expand Social Security benefits by demanding the wealthy starting to pay their fair share of taxes. So I have known Troy, and I look forward to working with him in the U.S. Senate. [00:09:18] Speaker 1: Are you going to endorse him? [00:09:21] Bernie Sanders: If you ask me to, I certainly will. [00:09:24] Speaker 1: Okay. Let me ask you, because you were one of the earliest and, frankly, most influential supporters of Graham Plattner's campaign. This week, Democratic Senator, your colleague, Senator John Fetterman, had this message for you. Take a listen, Senator. [00:09:39] Speaker 3: I would be frustrated with someone like Bernie Sanders. You know, why aren't people angry why they promoted, you know, someone like Plattner, an accused rapist? So, really, Bernie, you have no regret endorsing and proud to stand with an accused rapist, a guy that roughs up his ex-girlfriends, a guy that had a Nazi tattoo on his chest? [00:10:01] Speaker 1: What's your response to Senator Fetterman? [00:10:04] Bernie Sanders: Well, my response to Fetterman is, last time I saw it, he was reflecting the views about 19 percent of the Democrats in the state of Pennsylvania. I think probably lower than any other member of the Democratic Senate. Fetterman does his thing, I think, on Israel and many other issues, is way out of touch with the people of America. [00:10:25] Speaker 1: Well, let me ask you, because in the face of these growing scandals against Plattner, emotional abuse, aggressive behavior, which he did deny, you did continue to support Graham Plattner. [00:10:35] Bernie Sanders: There were very serious allegations against Plattner, against Plattner. As a result of those accusations, I and virtually all of his supporters requested that he withdraw from the race, and he did. Very serious allegations, and he withdrew from the race. [00:10:51] Speaker 1: You, in fact, said there are no saints in the United States Senate before those most serious allegations came out. Do you regret endorsing Graham Plattner in the first place, Senator? [00:11:04] Bernie Sanders: Well, you know, it's easier to be a Monday morning quarterback. Plattner ran a very strong campaign, and in fact, many of the issues that he's raised are resonating all over this country. A woman made very serious allegations against him. He withdrew from the race, period. [00:11:21] Speaker 1: And just to button this up, any regrets? Do you wish, if you could go back? [00:11:24] Bernie Sanders: Well, you know, I think right now we're looking at a campaign in Michigan. We're looking at a campaign in Minnesota. The people of this country right now are sick and tired of establishment politics and establishment policies. They want change. And I and other progressives are going to do everything that we can to bring about those changes. [00:11:43] Speaker 1: Let's look forward. You have indicated, Senator, you've been asked that you do not plan to run for president again. That means, and I don't know if you've looked at this, 2028 is going to be the first open Democratic primary without you running in it in nearly two decades, Senator. So let me ask you, as you look to the future. [00:12:05] Bernie Sanders: No, I did not. I did. Yeah. Yeah. [00:12:08] Speaker 1: Going back to going back to going back to 2016. Who do you hope will carry forward the progressive movement that you've championed? [00:12:19] Bernie Sanders: Kristen, there are one of the untold secrets in Washington is in the U.S. House of Representatives, for example, you have many, many really strong progressives. Many of them are young. Many of them are women. Many of them are people of color. And we have elected many of them. And I think as a result of this election cycle, you're going to see a lot more coming to Washington. I think as a nation, and by the way, all due respect, the media spends too much time worrying about who's going to be a president in two and a half years. Right now, we have enormous problems facing this country. We're looking at heat waves all over the world. You've got climate change. We're looking at the big tech oligarchs pushing AI and robotics down our throat. Congress is doing very little to protect working people in that. We're looking at massive levels of income and wealth inequality, a corrupt campaign finance system. My suggestion is, as a country, as a Congress, as media, let's focus on the important issues facing working people. Two and a half years from now is a long time to a presidential election. I'm sure it will unfold itself. [00:13:25] Speaker 1: All right, Senator Bernie Sanders, we will leave it on that note. Thank you so very much for being here. And we'll watch what happens closely on Tuesday and beyond. [00:13:35] Bernie Sanders: Thank you very much. We thank you for watching. And remember, stay updated on breaking news and top stories on the NBC News app or watch live on our YouTube channel.