About this transcript: This is a full AI-generated transcript of Andrew Griffin Trial Day 1: Opening Statements — Salsa Joe’s Double Murder from Cases of Interest, published October 31, 2026. The transcript contains 31,569 words with timestamps and was generated using Whisper AI.
"Calling the case of State of Ohio versus Andrew Griffin, case number 25, CR 46. Mr. Griffin is present in the courtroom with his counsel, Samuel Shemansky, as well as Catherine Clark. The State of Ohio is represented by Prosecuting Attorney Kevin Flanagan, Assistant Prosecuting Attorney Joseph..."
[00:00:00] Speaker 1: Calling the case of State of Ohio versus Andrew Griffin, case number 25, CR 46. Mr. Griffin is present in the courtroom with his counsel, Samuel Shemansky, as well as Catherine Clark. The State of Ohio is represented by Prosecuting Attorney Kevin Flanagan, Assistant Prosecuting Attorney Joseph Avra, and Assistant Attorney General Christopher Kinsler. We are on the record outside the presence of the jury at this time. First, we have State's Motion P. I have a response from the defendant, and then an additional reply from the State. Does the State have anything to add?
[00:00:47] Speaker 2: Nothing additional, Judge.
[00:00:51] Speaker 1: Mr. Shemansky.
[00:00:53] Speaker 3: Your Honor, with respect to P, nothing but, sir, if you don't mind, with the court's permission, I would like to place on the record that relative to the conference that we had in your chamber, on the record, we specifically waived and are now waiving again our client's appearance. He understands the issue, and he understands that we moved forward without him. And nothing with respect to P, I'm sorry.
[00:01:19] Speaker 1: I have reviewed, again, State's Motion P, undertaken a significant amount of research on the same, and based on Evidence Rule 616, State's Motion P is overruled, as that information, specifically, underlying relationships, circumstances, and influences operating on the witness are admissible and should be presented to the jury. In regards to the jury view script, that is Court's Exhibit 36, that was submitted to the court by the parties, does the State have anything to add to that?
[00:02:03] Speaker 3: No, Judge.
[00:02:05] Speaker 1: Does the defendant?
[00:02:06] Speaker 3: No, sir.
[00:02:09] Speaker 1: And in regards to the instruction on a jury view, I have included that in my preliminary instructions that I will give to the jury this morning. Does the State have anything to add?
[00:02:20] Speaker 3: No, Judge. That was good, Your Honor.
[00:02:22] Speaker 1: Okay, thank you. In regards to State's Motion N, where are we at with that, Mr. Babber? That is scheduling a hearing on the state.
[00:02:34] Speaker 2: Thank you, Judge. After speaking with the attorney who represents that witness, the State believes it appropriate to simply address that on the date and time when we would actually physically call the witness, which we anticipate to be Monday, November 2nd. So we would propose to the court that we would just address that motion and the issues contained in therein at that time. Totally agree with that, Your Honor.
[00:03:01] Speaker 1: All right. And that has been addressed. Before we bring in the jury, are there any other issues the State of Ohio needs to address?
[00:03:10] Speaker 2: Yes, Judge. We discussed this last week during the Gwadir process. At that time, the State moved to dismiss specifications related to the death penalty. And somewhat in conjunction with that, we have now discussed dismissing certain charges in the indictment that the State believes are duplicative. And to avoid any confusion, the State would now move at this point to dismiss the following counts contained in the indictment. Count 3, count 4, count 5, count 6, count 9, count 10, count 11, count 12, and count 15. That would leave the remaining charges as counts 1, 2, 7, 8, and 13.
[00:03:57] Speaker 1: Mr. Schemansky, does the defendant have a position?
[00:04:00] Speaker 3: We're in favor of that, Your Honor. I think it makes sense to stream on the case as much as possible. Thank you, sir.
[00:04:07] Speaker 1: Then the State is granted legal to dismiss. And Mr. Gavir, counts 3, 4, 5, 6, 9, 10, 11, 12, and what was the final count?
[00:04:19] Speaker 2: 15.
[00:04:20] Speaker 1: 15.
[00:04:22] Speaker 2: I'm sorry, Judge, 14. There is no count 15.
[00:04:25] Speaker 1: That's, okay, thank you. And this trial is proceeding on counts 1, 2, 7, 8, and 13. Is that correct, Mr. Becker?
[00:04:37] Speaker 2: It is, Judge.
[00:04:38] Speaker 1: Thank you. Any other issues the State needs to address?
[00:04:42] Speaker 2: No, Judge.
[00:04:43] Speaker 1: Mr. Schemansky, are there any issues you need to address outside the presence of the jury?
[00:04:48] Speaker 3: No, thank you, sir.
[00:04:49] Speaker 1: All right, thank you. Mr. Gortz, if you will bring in the jury, please. Yes, sir. Please, everyone, be seated. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen of the jury. I know I just asked you to have a seat, but I'm going to ask you to stand again, because the first thing we're going to do is I'm going to place you on the road. So if you all will raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear or affirm that you will diligently inquire into and carefully deliberate all matters between Andrew Isaac Griffin and the State of Ohio, and diligently and diligently and faithfully try to reach a fair and impartial decision in this matter to the best of your skills and understanding, without bias or prejudice, so help you God. To take this oath, please now say I so swear or affirm. I so swear or affirm. Was there anyone who could not take that oath? The record will reflect no one misanswered in the affirmative. Please be seated. Now, each party is entitled to jurors who approach this case with open minds and agree to keep their minds open until a verdict is reached. Jurors must be free as humanly possible from bias, prejudice or sympathy and not be influenced by preconceived ideas as to the facts or the law. You will receive the facts for evidence admitted during the trial and or stipulated by the parties. Instructions of law will be given to you by this court. It will be your sworn duty to apply the instructions of law given to you. You may not substitute what you think the law is or ought to be. It is important that you be fair and attentive throughout this trial. Do not discuss the case among yourselves or with anyone else and do not permit anyone to discuss it with you or in your presence. Do not form or express any opinion on the case until it is finally submitted to you in its entirety. Additionally, each of you may not discuss this case among yourselves until it is finally submitted to you. You will receive the opening statements, the evidence, the law from this court and arguments of counsel in that order. It would be unfair to discuss the case among yourselves before you receive everything necessary to reach an informed decision. You must explain this rule prohibiting the discussion of this case to your family and friends. When the trial is over, you will be released from this instruction. At that time, you may, but you are not required to discuss the case and your experience as a juror. The court instructs you not to converse with the attorneys, the parties, or the witnesses during the trial. Likewise, the participants in the trial must not converse with you. I have instructed counsel and their respective clients not to converse with you. Therefore, they are not being rude if they do not speak or merely say hi. They are following the orders of this court. If anyone should attempt to discuss this case with you, report the incident to the court or to the bailiff immediately. You must not post anything about this case on the internet or any electronic device, including cell phones. This would include blogs or any social networking sites such as Facebook, Twitter, and others. Any discussion, if discovered, could lead to a mistrial and would severely compromise each party's right to a fair trial. Do not investigate or attempt to obtain additional information about this case outside of the courtroom. It is highly improper for any one of you to attempt to do so. You are instructed not to read, view, or listen to any report in a newspaper, radio, television, or online on the subject of this trial. Such reports may be incomplete and sometimes are inaccurate. You may only consider and decide this case upon the evidence received at trial. If you should acquire any information from an outside source, you must report it. These admonitions will remain in effect throughout the entirety of this trial. And if they sound familiar, I recited them to you several times during Braudier on Wednesday. And I think you left with me reciting these as the last thing I gave you. Was there anyone among you who had any issues since we were last together on Wednesday complying with those orders? Please raise your hand. Record will reflect no one has had any issues following those orders. Now, the procedure for this trial is as follows. First, counsel for the state outlines what he expects the evidence will be in opening statements. Counsel for the defendant may then state what the evidence will be in his opening statement. Although in a criminal case, the defendant is presumed innocent and need not produce any evidence in his defense. These opening statements are not evidence. They are a preview of the claims of each party designed to help you follow the evidence and understand the case as it is presented. In the presentation of the evidence, the state proceeds first. Thereafter, the defendant may offer evidence and the state may offer rebuttal evidence. The court will then give you further instructions of law and the trial itself concludes with the closing arguments of counsel. Thereafter, you will deliberate on your verdict. Before you hear the opening statements of counsel and begin to take evidence, I think it would be helpful if you were to have some preliminary instructions to follow in listening to and considering the evidence that you will hear in this case. Later, after you've heard all the evidence and the closing arguments of counsel, I will give you instructions covering additional law, which you are to follow in this case. It is the duty of the judge to instruct you in the law, and it is your duty to follow the law. As I will state to you both now and at the conclusion of the evidence. First, it is your exclusive duty to decide all questions of fact submitted to you. In connection with this duty, you must decide the effect and the value of the evidence. You must not be influenced in your decision by sympathy, prejudice, or passion towards any party, witness, or attorney in the case. If in these instructions or in the instructions I give you at conclusion of the evidence any principle or idea is repeated or stated in varying ways, no emphasis thereon is intended and none must be inferred by you. Therefore, you must not single out any particular sentence or individual point or instruction and ignore the others. But rather, you are to consider all of the instructions as a whole and are to consider each instruction in relation to all of the instructions. The fact that I give you some instructions now and some at the conclusion of the evidence has no significance as to their relative importance, nor does the order in which I have given you the instructions. The attorneys for the parties will, of course, have active roles during the trial. They will make opening statements to you, question witnesses, make objections, and finally will argue the case with closing statements as to the last step before you commence your deliberations. Remember, the attorneys are not witnesses. And since it is your duty to decide the case solely on the evidence, which you see or hear in this case, you must not consider as evidence any statement of an attorney made during the trial. There is an exception, and that is if the attorneys agreed to any fact, such agreement, stipulation, or admission of fact will be brought to your attention, and you may then regard such fact as being conclusively proved without the necessity of further evidence on such fact. If a question is asked, and the objection to the question is sustained, you will then not hear the answer, and you must not speculate as to what that answer might have been or the reason for the objection. If an answer is given to a question, and the court then grants a motion to strike that answer, you are to completely disregard such question and answer and not consider them for any purpose. A question in and of itself is not evidence, and may be considered by you only as it supplies meaning to the answer given by the witness. Any fact in this case may be proven by either direct or circumstantial evidence. Direct evidence means exactly what the name implies, that it is evidence which directly proves a fact without having to infer that fact from some other fact. Direct evidence is usually the testimony given by a witness who has seen or heard the facts to which he or she testifies. It includes exhibits admitted into evidence during the trial. Circumstantial evidence, on the other hand, is proof of facts by direct evidence from which you may reasonably infer a fact in question. An example of the difference between direct and circumstantial evidence is as follows. If the issue in the case is whether Johnny ate the cherry pie, testimony by a witness that he saw Johnny put the pie in his mouth and eat it would be direct evidence of that fact. However, if a witness testifies that he arrived in the kitchen only to see Johnny standing there with an empty pie tip in his hand and cherry pie on his face, that would be circumstantial evidence of the fact that Johnny ate the pie. The law makes no distinction between direct and circumstantial evidence as to the degree of proof required and the facts may be proven by either type of evidence or a combination of them. Each is accepted as a reasonable method of proof and each is respected for such convincing force as it may carry. As jurors, you have the sole and exclusive duty to decide the credibility of the witnesses who will testify in this case, which simply means that it is you who must decide whether to believe or disbelieve a particular witness and how much weight, if any, you are to give to their testimony of each witness. In determining these questions, you will apply the test of truthfulness, which you apply in your daily lives. These tests include the appearance of each witness on the stand, his or her manner of testifying, the reasonableness of their testimony, the opportunity he or she had to see, hear, and know the things concerning which they testified, his or her accuracy of memory, frankness or lack of it, intelligence, interest, and bias, if any, together with all the facts and circumstances surrounding all the testimony. Applying these tests, you will assign to the testimony of each witness such weight as you, the jury, deem proper. You are not required to believe the testimony of any witness simply because it was given under oath. You may believe or disbelieve all or any part of the testimony of any witness. You should not decide any issue of fact merely on the number of witnesses who testify on each side of such an issue. Rather, the final test in judging evidence would be the force and the weight of the evidence, regardless of the number of witnesses on each side of the issue. The testimony of one witness, believed by you, is sufficient to prove any fact. Also, discrepancies in a witness's testimony between his testimony and that of others, if there is any discrepancy, does not necessarily mean that you should disbelieve the witness, as people commonly forget facts or recollect them erroneously after the passage of time. You are certainly aware of the fact that two persons who are witnesses to an incident may often see or hear it differently. In considering a discrepancy in a witness's testimony, you should consider whether such discrepancy concerns an important fact or a trivial one. If you conclude that a witness has willfully lied in his or her testimony as to a material fact, you may distrust all of his or her testimony, and you would then have the right to reject all of his or her testimony, unless, from all the evidence, you believe that the probability of truth favors his or her testimony in other particulars. This court will permit those jurors who desire to take notes during the trial to do so. Underneath you is a notepad with two pens. Those are yours throughout the course of the trial. They will remain in this courtroom. You will only take them back to the jury room once you begin to deliberate. With you being permitted to take notes, keep in mind that no juror is required to take any notes. The taking of notes is entirely a matter of personal choice for each juror. The fact that the notes taken by a juror support his recollection in no way makes his or her memory more reliable than that of the jurors who do not take notes. Do not let the taking of notes divert your attention from what is being said or what is happening in the courtroom during the trial. Some persons believe that taking notes is not helpful because it may distract a person's attention and interfere with hearing all the evidence. All notes are confidential and for the consideration of the jury only. Each note taker will leave his notes on the chair or underneath the chair during all recesses and until deliberations begin. At that time, you will be allowed to take your notes into the jury room. On the conclusion of this trial, all notes will be returned to the bailiff for destruction at the time the jury is discharged. You will only be permitted to begin taking notes after opening statements and the jury view occurs. You will note that these proceedings are being broadcast and photographed by members of the news media. However, you will not be. You must not allow this fact to divert your attention from this case or to interfere with your duties as jurors. You are not allowed to talk to members of the media during this trial and members of the media are not permitted to contact you. Should any member of the media contact you, you should notify the bailiff immediately. Now, ladies and gentlemen, this concludes my preliminary instructions. I hope that they have been of some assistance to you in listening to and considering the evidence. Please keep these instructions in mind as you listen to the evidence and the statements of counsel. I may give you additional instructions during the trial, and when the evidence is concluded, I will give you additional instructions on the law that you are to follow together with the instructions that you have just heard and any other instruction that is given during the trial. At this time, counsel for the parties may have an opening statement. Opening statements of counsel are concise and orderly descriptions of each side's claims and defenses and the evidence counsel expects to produce in support of those claims and defenses. They are not evidence. Each side will address you once during opening statements. The state will proceed first. Immediately after opening statements, you will be transported for a jury view. You will be taken to the location involved in this case. You will remain together under the supervision of the bailiff until you return to the courtroom. Counsel and the parties have decided not to accompany you. The bailiff may call your attention to certain objects requested by counsel. What you observe outside this courtroom is not evidence. Conditions may have changed since the time of the events in this case. The evidence of the physical appearance of the scene must come to you from the witness stand. The only purpose of your visit is to help you understand the evidence as it's presented in this courtroom. You are not permitted to discuss with each other anything about this jury view while it is occurring, nor are you permitted to ask any questions during the jury view. And again at this time, we will proceed with opening statements. Does the state of Ohio have an opening statement? Yes, Judge, Judge, Judge, then Mr. Dapper, you may proceed.
[00:24:07] Speaker 4: May I step up?
[00:24:08] Speaker 1: Yes.
[00:24:11] Speaker 2: May you please in court, counsel for the defense, ladies and gentlemen of the jury. Good morning. Opening statement is a chance for the attorneys to address you directly and to preview for you the evidence that you're wanting to hear. The judge is the work concise. I'm going to do my best. What you're going to find out is this was an investigation that spanned about five years. So I'm going to try to summarize this evidence as best I can for you. I'm going to ask you to stick with me. In the morning of Tuesday, September 21, 2021, around 7 a.m., Bulma County 911 received multiple calls of a structured fire on Trails End Drive on Marks, Ohio. One call came from a neighbor. Two calls came from employees of Stone Breakers Garage, which is across the street from where the fire was occurring. The callers weren't sure if anyone was inside, what the situation was. The employees from Stone Breakers went to the house. Two of the individuals got there. They attempted to get access to the front door. The front door was locked. They could see smoke inside. Couldn't make contact. Beat on the door. Pumped their car horn. Got no response. These two individuals then actually broke out one of the windows in the front of the house to, again, try to make contact. No luck. They then traveled around to the back of the house where there's a door leading to the backyard, and they found that door to be unlocked. They open it. The room is filled with smoke. They can't see inside. One of the individuals attempts to go in, Mr. Stone Breakers himself, and he can't make it more than a step or two because of how bad the smoke is. John Phillips, who is another one of the employees who called 911, he's also a firefighter, a volunteer firefighter in his spare time. He comes around to the back, and he's able to put on his hands and knees. He crawls. He has a flashlight on his phone. Enters the home, and is actually able to find a deceased female in the house. He drags her out, sets her on the back porch. It is clear and evident that she is no longer with us. He then doesn't see anything else when he's in there, so he doesn't go back in. He waits for other firefighters to arrive. Multiple fire departments respond, as well as the sheriff's office at this point. Jeremy Wright, the captain at Cumberland Trail Fire Department, will testify and tell you that he, along with others, enter the house as well. When they enter the house, he finds a male individual inside on the ground. He drags that individual out and sets him on the back porch. Once again, it is clear and evident that this individual is no longer with us. They then turn their attention to putting out the fire. Eventually, they're able to do so. And because we know that we have two deceased individuals, the Belmont County coroner is called in. When she arrives, she notices what she believes to be bullet holes on both victims in their head. Multiple bullet wounds. At this point, we're no longer talking about a fire and somebody potentially dying as a result of a fire. We're talking about murder. The investigation shifts. Someone from the State Fire Marshal's office comes in and conducts an investigation, looks around the house, and he finds that there are actually four points where a fire was started or attempted to be started in the home. One is a couch in the living room where our two deceased bodies were found. A hallway closet is a second source of fire. A master bedroom is a third source of fire. And a fourth source of fire was the oven in the kitchen. Now, that fire never ignited and you'll hear details about explaining what happened there, but it was a potential source for fire. You also hear testimony about how fire complicates a crime scene. and what all occurs from that. Because you're talking about one, the damage of the fire and smoke do on their own. You're talking about multiple individuals entering the home, firefighters who try to put the fire out. And then you're also talking about the water damage that's occurring. So you're here testimony about how those things affect the crime scene, affect collection of evidence, things like that. Additionally, I mentioned firefighters, I mentioned state fire marshal, sheriff's office, or BCI is called and they're a Bureau of Criminal Investigation. They're a state agency and they investigate any crimes occurring in the state of property. And in a case like this involving murder, they are calling you to investigate as well. They take control of the crime scene to process it. Now, in the days following this, our two deceased individuals, Tom and Angela Strushen, are taken for autopsy. And in that process, we learned that Angela Strushen was shot three times in the head. We learned that Tom Strushen was shot twice in the head. And once in his upper right shoulder area in the back. Last week, Defense Council told you there's not a question that a murder occurred. And I agree with that. There's no question here that these two were murdered. The question is, who did it? Who is responsible? The Belmont County Sheriff's and BCI did as best they could with the scene and collecting evidence, testing samples, looking for DNA, looking for fingerprints. All those attempts came up empty. No such luck. I want to pause here and just tell you about Tom and Angela Strushen and who they were a little bit. Angela Strushen did not grow up in this area. She grew up in the South. Educated. Went to college. Met Tom. decided to move here. Tom was a businessman. He's a restaurateur. They were running two businesses at the time when they got. Salsa Joe's in Belmont, Ohio and Salsa Joe's in Elm Grove, Ohio. In addition to that, Angela also helped out a full-time job. She was more of the behind-the-scenes person with the businesses. Controlled a lot of books, finances, things like that. Tom was more of the face of the businesses. He was present at the restaurants and dealt with customers and things like that. He was also assisted in cooking a lot of the food that was served. Throughout the course of this trial, you're going to hear some things that may make you not like Tom Strushen. He wasn't faithful to his wife and he wasn't the most honest businessman or the most honest business partner. You may not like him because of that and that's okay. Not liking him because of those things doesn't mean he should be murdered. Again, our officers were running on every leave they could. They investigated multiple folks. Their investigation actually turned up two individuals who were actually extorting Tom Strushen for money. Those folks were prosecuted. However, they were cleared of any involvement in this situation. The officers with our sheriff's department as well as BCI as well as the FBI became involved. They began looking at cell phone towers, phone records, seeing who was present or what phones were present. at the scene at the time that we believe this to have occurred. As you can imagine, this location you'll see is right next to Interstate 70. So, these towers are picking up every car that's driving by. It's processing a lot of people a lot of information. They are sifting through this trying to make connections, not getting very far at this point. early on in the investigation, Andrew Griffin is identified as a person of interest. Andrew Griffin is from Oklahoma. He was in this area. He met Tom and Andrew Strushen. He became involved in their businesses and actually became a partner in running the Salter Coast Elmett Grove location. When investigators first looked at him, they looked at his cell phone records. They saw that his cell phone was in Oklahoma at the time these events occurred. Based on that, he was somewhat set aside. They believed that that may have shown he wasn't here. So, he was set aside. At that point, nothing else was really pointing in his direction. They continued investigating. They investigated the entire rogues gallery of usual suspects in Belmont County and the Wheeling area and were coming up at a certain point in the spring of 2023. Chief Detective Ryan Aller says, you know what? I'm going to call this Andrew Griffin guy. We're not getting anywhere. He was a business partner. He may be able to point us in the direction. Reaches out, doesn't receive a response. In June, July of 23 in this time frame, Detective Aller learns from Lisa Bavala, who is Tom Strushen's sister. You'll hear testimony from her. Informs in that, hey, I heard that Andrew Griffin is missing in Oklahoma. Detective Aller looks into this and finds out, yes, in fact, he is reported missing in Oklahoma. And the investigation indicates that he took a work truck and crossed the border into Mexico and was not heard from it. This piqued the investigator's interest. It was at this time as well that they reached out to Stacy Griffin. Stacy Griffin is the ex-wife of Andrew Griffin. at the time, July of 2023, they were estranged. They reached out to her and speak with her and during this part of the investigation and speaking with her, they learned that Brett Cole is Andrew Griffin's best friend. You're going to hear a lot about Brett Cole in this trial. He's not a nice guy. He is currently serving life in prison for child rape. He's not somebody to like. But he became somewhat of interest in this. Investigators subpoena his phone records to see where this leads. FBI analyst Brian Warshallack looks at his phone records. And you find something odd in looking at it, something that doesn't look like everything else. On the morning of September 21, 2021, the same morning, Tom and Angela were found, he finds a strange number, doesn't look like any other numbers, calls Brett Cole and he calls him at 7.03 Central Time, which would have been about an hour after the bodies were found. This call was placed from Jackson, Tennessee and it became somewhat something of interest. It was 24 seconds in duration, very short. and analyst Warshallack reached out to Special Agent Brian Lacey with the FBI. Agent Lacey was the one looking at a lot of the cell phone tower information in this area. He says, hey, it might not be anything, but check out this number, this number that placed this call on Brett Cole. Seems odd, let's look at it. Agent Lacey looks at it and finds that this phone number, this phone, was pinning off cell towers. The cell tower nearest Tom and Angela structure his house at the time we believe the murders occurred. This phone now becomes the focus of the investigation. They're able to subpoena all the records for this phone. They find that this phone first registered, first time ever, registered with the cell phone tower in Marion, Illinois, on September 19th, 2021, at 548 p.m. Central Time. They then track the path of this phone. This phone goes directly from Marion, Illinois, to Belmont, Ohio, when it arrives at 3.43 a.m. Eastern Time on September 20th, 2021. This phone then continues hitting cell towers surrounding the construction phone the entirety of that day. Now, we know from Angela's construction cell phone information that she was at home most of the day. You'll hear Lisa Valle testified on that as well. She was actually with her at the house that day. We know from Tom Strusson's phone records and other information that he was out and about. He was at the Saucer Joe's home group location that evening of the 20th of September until about 10 p.m. Phone data shows his phone leaving that area and in home. At about 10.30 p.m. his phone connects to his house Wi-Fi. So we know that he is in the home, we know that Angela was for the next about one hour, all three phones are there hitting off these same towers until 11.37 p.m. That is when our mystery phone leaves that house, leaves that area, and immediately heads west on Interstate 70. That phone is tracked on a path heading back to the state of Oklahoma. The path Evans show Andrew Griffin had utilized in the past. That phone is either turned off or shut off at 10.40 a.m. central time in Penton, Arkansas. It's never used again. That phone exists for about 40 hours. It exists from 5.48 p.m. when it's activated on September 19th until it's turned off or dies on September 21 at 10.40 a.m. It existed to travel from there in Illinois to Belmont County back towards Oklahoma. now Benton, Arkansas is where it sucks off at about 10.40. That is about three hours from Andrew Griffin's home in Whitesboro, Oklahoma. So if the state's theory means anything, he should arrive back home at about 1.40 p.m. Now, I mentioned that phone had one purpose, traveling to Belmont County and then leaving. I forgot about a second purpose because the second purpose was to call Brett Cole the morning that these orders occurred. Now, Brett Cole's phone information shows that after receiving that call, he made a couple calls. He called Amy Chase and he called Dalbray. We'll talk about that later. As mentioned, Andrew Griffin's phone was in Oklahoma this entire time. On September 19th, it's near his home in Whitesboro. After the 19th, it then travels to Hugo, Oklahoma. That's where Brett Cole is. It then stays in and around that area, until our mystery phone calls Brett Cole on September 21th and then travels back to Andrew Griffin's phone in Whitesboro. It arrives there at approximately 10 a.m. We'll remain stationary, inactive, doesn't do much of anything until 1.48 p.m. Central time when it starts making multiple calls. We'll walk forward. Now, I'm going to ask, what was Andrew Griffin's phone doing activity-wise calls on September 19th and September 20th? It wasn't doing much of anything. You'll see that on September 18th, it was making a lot of calls, a lot of activity. On September 19th, it placed zero calls. On September 20th, it placed zero calls. On September 21th, at 1.48 p.m., it begins making multiple calls. Now, there's a few text messages in there, and we'll hear about that. We'll also hear that any calls coming into that phone for those two dates are completely unanswered. They went to voicemail, so nobody clicked up the phone, nobody said hello. Going back to our mystery phone. Detectives looked at that tower that had hit in Marion, Illinois, noticed a couple areas of interest. There was a Cricut phone store there, and there was a Walmart thing. They reached out to Cricut, nothing there. Our detectives reached out to Walmart, and here they find where that phone was purchased. They obtained a receipt for September 19th at 5.05 p.m., where a cell phone, a phone card to put minutes on the phone, and a portable charger were purchased with cash. Now, they don't come upon this information until July of 2024. So we're almost three years removed from our murder. They attempt to get video of this purchase in September of 2021, but they were told, hey, sorry, we don't have it anymore, we don't keep our video that long. detectives are unable to obtain registration information for this phone. It was registered in the name of a James Jody and given an address in Knoxville, Tennessee. Detective the amount of travel to this address could not find anyone named James Jody. The charger that was purchased became a little interesting, and our officers were able to identify and get a picture of it, what it would look like in Wal-Mart's website, and if you were to look at other purchases that way. Now, talking about Stacy Griffin, ex-files of Andrew Griffin, she will testify. She will testify regarding some comments made during the marriage between she and Mr. Griffin. She will testify that once she began talking to officers, they ask her to keep an eye off her things. She will testify that in a car that she possessed that had previously been used by Mr. Griffin, she found a cell phone and a tracking device. She turned those over to our officers. You will find that the cell phone belonged to Brett Cole. You will find that the tracking device was used to track Tom Strushing's vehicle in the months of May and June of 2021. I mentioned the Charger being of interest. Detective Oliver reached out to Miss Griffin and said hey, can you keep an eye out for a charger, portable phone charger. Didn't show her a picture of it, didn't tell her how it looked, nothing like that. She takes a look, gets a hold of it and says hey wait, I found one, takes a picture of it, sends it to him. Same exact charger to purchase in Marydell and little little
[00:46:30] Speaker ?: little
[00:46:30] Speaker 2: little little. May, model, looks the same. She provided to Detective Waller, we have it in evidence, it's something we'll be able to see and look at. In the more recent past, you'll hear some testimony from Miss Griffin that there were some moves, things being boxed up, not finding things right away. You'll hear some testimony from her that recently, this past summer, she found a couple more cell phones, gave them to our detectives. Our detectives searched them, were able to establish that they belonged to Mr. Griffin prior to the murder, so they were all repubbles, just sitting around the house. However, one item of interest from these folks, when the detectives looked it up, is they found that Mr. Griffin had a Facebook friend by the name of James Jody,
[00:47:24] Speaker ?: phone travel.
[00:47:28] Speaker 2: Now, we know the path for phone travel. We don't know how it was traveling. Was it in a truck? Was it in a car? What was the situation there? We turn back to Brett Cole. In searching him, our detectives applied for search warrants to Facebook. They find Facebook messages in an exchange on September 13th of 2021, about a week prior to our murders, between Brett Cole and Corey White. Corey White lives in Texas. He is advertising and selling a motorcycle. There's some talk between the two of them about price. They settle on $3,000. Brett Cole asked him specifically in this text exchange or Facebook exchange, will it make a long trip record. Corey White's response is, oh yeah, it's in tip-top shape. That day, November, I'm sorry, September 13, 2021, Brett Cole and another individual, we soon learn as Dalg Gray, travels to Corey White's home in Texas to purchase this motorcycle. While Brett Cole is there physically, phone records show that Andrew Griffin and he spoke four times on himself. Through a part of this, Mr. Griffin's bankruptcy rule, they were subpoenaed as well. You will hear and see that on August 31, he withdrew $5,000 cash from the bank. You will hear that the sale of this motorcycle was $3,000 cash on September 13, 2021. Mr. White is a cautious man. He took photographs of the individuals, Mr. Ray and Mr. Cole with the motorcycle loading and unloading up when they took it out. You will see the registration that was put out for this vehicle to transfer the title. You will see that the transferee the person it's going to is going out somebody named James Fisher from Mississippi. Investigators were never able to confirm whether that person exists. The phone number written down on that document is the exact same phone number that Andrew Griffin had at the time except one digit was changed. title was never transferred. That bike remained in for quite some time after these events. I mentioned Dalton Ray. He is present when this bike is purchased. He's mentioned as being around Mr. Cole by the time this was going on. Detectives made attempts to reach out to him. They were not successful. You will hear about that. However, they did confirm that in Andrew Griffin's bank records there were multiple checks written out to Dalton Ray. So we know they knew each other. We know Mr. Ray was around. Now, turning back to our motorcycle and her cell phone. Detectives knew the path of travel and they knew the times that this motorcycle was hitting cell phone towers on its travel. You're going to see all this information. They attempted to get some kind of photograph or video of this motorcycle. And again, given the passage of time, they knew this was going to be a challenge. They were coming up in. They located a toll bridge that goes from Indiana to
[00:51:26] Speaker 4: Kentucky. To the time that the motorcycle should be traveling. you want somewhere in that area on September
[00:51:41] Speaker 2: 19,
[00:51:41] Speaker 4: 2021.
[00:51:43] Speaker 2: In August of 2024, they subpoena records from Riverland. That's who controls these cameras
[00:51:49] Speaker 4: and processes the in place that early. You're going to learn that what they're
[00:52:00] Speaker 2: looking for. It is explained to our detectives that we don't have any motorcycles at this time. The license plates are hidden. We wouldn't have picked it up anyway. And our system would have done critical. We don't have it. That was the status quo until January of 2026. This January. Our detectives began talking to a Karen Nakomas. This is a different
[00:52:36] Speaker 4: fresh out of eyes. She looked the license plate
[00:52:49] Speaker 2: might not have been read, but if there's footage, it still exists. It's just in a different place than they were looking before. She is able to look back and find in their storage that at 1052 PM, a motorcycle and a rider and a helmet cross that region's photograph.
[00:53:09] Speaker ?: We
[00:53:09] Speaker 2: have that photograph. You will see that photograph. You will be able to look at pictures of that motorcycle and compare it to pictures of the motorcycle that Corey White sold to Brett Cole and you will find that
[00:53:26] Speaker ?: the
[00:53:26] Speaker 4: time
[00:53:39] Speaker 2: these murders occurred. We also found that there was one bank transaction on his banking account his printed debit card that occurred during this time September 20th 2021 there was a purchase at a shell gas station in Hugo, Oklahoma.
[00:54:04] Speaker 4: Now I've mentioned Amy Chase before.
[00:54:13] Speaker 2: said, I'll tell you that at the time she caught Brett Cole with two phones. as his girlfriend at the time she kind of panicked, what the heck, you know, what's the second phone for you is stepping out on me, what's going on here? She confronts him about that and she learned that Mr. Cole had two phones because one belonged to Brett Griffin and Andrew Griffin and Andrew Griffin was in the phone. We had Andrew Griffin's credit credit card at the time and used it to make a purchase at a gas station in Cuba at the time at the time at the time and used it to make a purchase at a gas station in Cuba, Oklahoma. At this point Amy Chase is also interesting to look at her phone records. They find her phone activity during this time and confirm that she was in and around Hugo as expected. You will also hear testimony that her phone and Mr. Griffin's phone were in the same location as around Hugo at the time. At the time. You will hear her testimony that she didn't see Andrew Griffin during this time, but his phone was there. He just wasn't. You will hear specifically that her phone and Andrew Griffin's phone were hitting off the tower near a farm and feed store in Grant, Oklahoma. You will see at the same time there was a purchase at Grant, Oklahoma. Made by Brett Cole who signed the credit card receipt with his name and you will see the exact time that that occurred. So Brett Cole was there and Amy Chase was there and Andrew Griffin's phone was there. I mentioned Brett Cole and I mentioned Brett Cole, Law Times told you you're going to hear a lot about him. In December of 2024 you will hear he was in federal prison in Illinois at the time serving his life sentence. Our detectives were able to secure and bring him back here and he spoke to our detectives. You're going to hear that he was given immunity to give information. You're also here that he's already doing life in prison. You're also going to hear that he's already doing life in prison. You're also going to hear that our investigators indicate while he may have. No evidence indicates he ever left the state of the home. Now, one of the things Mr. Cole mentions to our defendants is that, hey, that motorcycle helmet, I still have it. It's at my mom's house. Sure enough, Detective Secure, a motorcycle helmet from Brett Cole's mom's house in Oklahoma. Once they receive it, they send it to a place called Pure Gold Forensics in California to see if there's any evidence, any DNA, anything that might link. They can talk to an investigation. They send their results to cyber genetics, which is another DNA place in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. And cyber genetics will confirm that Mr. Griffin's DNA was found inside that motorcycle helmet. Now, you may be thinking, why would Mr. Griffin do this? What's the motive? I mentioned before, when Mr. Griffin came here from Oklahoma, he met Tom and Angela and struck up a relationship, decided that he was going to go into business with Tom and Angela. They signed a written agreement on March 17, 2021, indicating that they're 50-50 partners with Sausage Hill's own growth. Prior to that, in January of 2021, Mr. Griffin's bank record show that he wrote a check to Tom and Angela's business, AJS, holding $10,000, which was deposited into the Belmont, the Belmont Sausage Hill's location. So that's his initial investment. From March of 2021 to July of 2021, Mr. Griffin invests another roughly $96,000 in AJS holdings, the Sausage Hill's own growth location. So, as far as getting money out of that business, they're in its time frame. Zero. No withdrawals, no draws, nothing. Now, he did receive about six or seven paychecks. He was a manager at that business, so he was getting a weekly paycheck for about seven weeks, $1,000 a week for that. But as far as actually getting investment back, no. You will learn that Sausage Hill's own growth was open from about mid to late May until the time Tom and Angela passed. In that time frame, the business took in about $90,000 in cash sales. There were other sales credit cards, things like that, things like that. Cash that came into that business. You will find that construction is the one who controlled the cash that came in. And you will find that at the time Andrew was involved in the business, zero cash went into AJS voting accounts.
[01:00:39] Speaker ?: And that's the one who controlled the cash that came in. And that's the one who controlled the cash that came in. And that's the one who controlled the cash that came in.
[01:00:47] Speaker 2: And that's the one who controlled the cash that came in. And that's the one who controlled the cash that came in. And that's the one who controlled the cash that came in. And that's the one who controlled the cash that came in. And that's the one who controlled the cash that came in. And that's the one who controlled the cash that came in. And that's the one who controlled the cash that came in. And that's the one who controlled the cash that came in. And that's the one who controlled the cash that came in. And that's the one who controlled the cash that came in.
[01:01:01] Speaker ?: And that's the one who controlled the cash that came in.
[01:01:02] Speaker 2: And that's the one who controlled the cash that came in. And that's the one who controlled the cash that came in. And that's the one who controlled the cash that came in. And that's the one who controlled the cash that came in. And that's the one who controlled the cash that came out. And that's the one who controlled the cash that came out. And that's the one who controlled the cash that came out. And that's the one who controlled the cash that came out. And that's the one who controlled the cash that came out. And that's the one who controlled the cash that came out. And that's the one who controlled the cash that came out. And that's the one who controlled the cash that came out. And that's the one who controlled the cash that came out. And that's the one who controlled the cash that came out. And that's the one who controlled the cash that came out. And that's the one who controlled the cash. And that's the one who controlled the cash that came out. And that's the one who controlled the cash that came out. And that's the one who controlled the cash that came out. And that's the one who controlled the cash that came out. And that's the one who controlled the cash that came out. And that's the one who controlled the cash that came out. And that's the one who controlled the cash that came out. And that's the one who controlled the cash that came out. And that's the one who controlled the cash. And that's why Mr. Griffin offered to buy him out. To keep the business going. And it's told him now. Not an option. The next day, August 24, Tom and Angela's discussion. Take him off the AGS holding his account without telling him. We know this because Mr. Griffin calls Don Juan Savings Bank, what this account is, and says, "Hey, what the heck? I can't get access." And it's told by Payton McKimmon, Don Juan Savings. Well, you gotta talk to them about it because they're the ones who took me off. A few days later, he returns to Oklahoma. So at this point, he's contributed about $106,000 to this business. And it's received nothing on his return, save $7,000 in income from being demanded. That's what we're talking about here. Money and revenge. Now, we're going to present to you some other witnesses from Oklahoma, some other acquaintances of Mr. Griffin. They're going to talk to you about discussions they had with him about these murders. And you're going to hear some phone calls, some wiretaps, because at one point, our officers secured a wiretap warrant from Mr. Griffin's phone. You're going to be able to hear his own comments and statements on his wiretaps. One individual that you're going to hear from, Oklahoma, is Arthur Cole. Arthur Cole, as elderly, he's not in health. Physically, he's not going to be able to be here. We took his deposition prior to this trial last summer in 2005. You're going to be able to watch him. You're going to be able to look at him. He sat in that chair there and testified and was cross with him. Arthur Cole is Brett Cole's grandfather. He's also served a grandfather to Andrew Griffin. He looked at Andrew's grandson. Andrew looked at him as a grandfather. His wife, Arthur Cole's wife, actually assisted when Andrew's mother, Andrew Griffin's mother gave birth to him. She was there in the room and helped that process happen. When they were growing up, he was always around Arthur Cole raising like a grandson. Arthur Cole will talk about how there were two different versions of Andrew. There was the version of Andrew prior to the time he spent in Beaumont County. And there was a version of him after he returned and how different that version was. You're also going to hear that at one point, Mr. Griffin came to pick Mr. Cole up to drive around. This is something that you'd all probably get in the car, drive and talk. Go to different home locations and things like that. On this particular occasion, Mr. Griffin was on the phone talking to somebody. And Arthur believed he was talking to Brett Cole, his grandson. And Arthur overheard the conversation. And he heard Andrew Griffin say, Well, I had to go get my money and I killed two people. After that conversation, Mr. Cole instructed Mr. Griffin, he would know how to welcome him to his house. And he was not to come around. He'll tell you that Mr. Cole did, or did Mr. Griffin did come around a couple days later. He told him goodbye. And it was shortly after that that Mr. Griffin left the area and appeared to go to New Mexico. You'll hear more details about how he was eventually returned from Mexico. People don't know what he got down. So at the start of this, somewhat last week, we talked about there's no question these murders happened. There's no question this house was set on fire. The question is who did. The state's going to present a lot of evidence, a lot of witnesses, a lot of undisputed data information. He's self-empowered and anything like that. That information plus what are the coaltails that he heard is enough for you to convince Mr. Griffin of murder. I think what you're going to find out at the end of the day is the state's going to need a lot more than that.
[01:06:15] Speaker ?: Thank you.
[01:06:19] Speaker 3: Thank you, Judge. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Council for the government. When I, Kate and I should say, participated in the board here, he explained to you that we didn't have a burden. That remains true today. That doesn't mean we're not going to challenge this evidence that the government claims proves beyond a reasonable doubt that our client, Andrew Isaac Griffin, in cold blood, over 100 grand supposedly took the lives of two innocent Belmont County citizens. Now, even though we have an alert, let me guarantee you what we're going to prove. We're going to prove that the evidence upon which the government relies points to a conspiracy for sure. But it is a conspiracy that does not involve Andrew Griffin. It involves one of the lowest, most unreliable scumbags of the earth. That is a man who rapes a child, receives, as he should, life in prison, who then makes a deal with the government to save his own pitiful hobby. That's just one of the characters that the government wants you to rely and act upon. They want you to believe somehow that this man is trustworthy, all because of some electronic data, the reliability of which God knows what. Secondarily, the government wants you to believe in the likes of Stacey Griffin, a woman who has also been immunized. And if you believe the government's version of facts in this case, she's guilty of murdering two people as her husband. Same with Mr. Colt. And what did they get? A pass. Why did they get a pass? Because the government believes that they've got to prove this case and that they've got to prove that Andrew Griffin did it. And they're going to rely upon two of the most unreliable characters you will ever hear. Mark my words, this is what we need to establish. The government has done a workmanlike job of running down electronic leads, cell towers, none of which will prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Andrew Griffin was anywhere near, anywhere near the Strush and Stone that he perished. There's zero proof of who committed these two murders, who set this house on fire. I should say there's zero forensic proof. The scene was not properly analyzed. And when BCI came up with steak eyes, they did nothing further to try to establish who was in that house, who pulled the trigger, and who put the place on fire. This is a case built on innuendo, and it's a case built on bought and paid for testimony, which is the most unreliable testimony in the face of the universe. You'll get right out of Brett Colt's mouth. What's in it for me? What are you going to do for me? If I have to take this thing, I'm going to help my brother. And then lo and behold, the promises start coming, fast and furious. And when all this testimony is over, you're going to have to ask yourself, are you going to bet the farm on the likes of Brett Colt and Stacey Griffin? In a case where there is not one piece of direct evidence that ties Andrew to this murder or to these murders? That's what you have to ask yourself. Because all this chicanery, all this conspiratorial conduct, all occurred behind his back. And he's nothing more than a fallen guy. As you listen to this evidence, you evaluate the likes of a child rapist, an angry ex-wife, find our client out here. Thank you. Thank you, Your Honor.
[01:11:10] Speaker ?: Thank you.
[01:11:14] Speaker 1: All right, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, you're going to retire to the jury room, get a drink, use the restroom, and then as I advise you, you'll be taken on a jury view. And I will give you that instruction one additional time. You're going to be taken to the location involved in this case. You'll remain together under the supervision of the bailiff until you return to the courtroom. Counsel and the parties have decided not to accompany you. The bailiff may call your attention to certain objects requested by counsel. What you observe outside of this courtroom is not evidence. Conditions may have changed since the time of the events of this case. The evidence of the physical appearance of the scene must come to you from the witness stand. The only purpose of your visit is to help you understand the evidence as it is presented in this courtroom. You are not permitted to discuss with each other anything about this jury view while it is occurring, nor are you permitted to ask any questions. And finally, every time we break, those admonitions I gave you, those orders remain in effect. That is, you are to have no discussions about this case with anyone, including yourselves. You're not to undertake any independent research, and you're not to post anything about this case. If anyone attempts to contact you or does try to discuss this case in your presence, you are to report that to me or to the bailiff. With that said, you can retire to the jury room. And you will leave your notebooks in here.
[01:13:09] Speaker ?: Thank you. Thank you.
[01:13:39] Speaker 1: All right. We are outside the presence of the jury. Is there any issues the State of Ohio needs to address?
[01:13:50] Speaker ?: No, Judge.
[01:13:51] Speaker 1: Mr. Schmansky, the same question. Well, good, Your Honor. Thank you. Okay. Just scheduling, it is 10:30. I'm guesstimating about an hour for the jury view. That would give us 11:30. I'll start first with the State. Do we have them eat lunch? That is the jury, and maybe resume at 12:30?
[01:14:13] Speaker 3: Yeah, that's acceptable, Judge. Give me one second, I'm sorry. Sure.
[01:14:18] Speaker 4: I'm sorry, we just have to do it at 12:30. Oh, instead of do it at 10:30.
[01:14:40] Speaker 3: Okay. Judge, we're cool with starting or resuming at 12:30?
[01:14:45] Speaker 1: All right, then that will work. The court will be in recess until 12:30. Thank you, Judge.
[01:14:50] Speaker 3: Thank you. We're back on the record in the case State of Ohio versus Andrew Griffin, case 25, CR 46.
[01:15:00] Speaker 1: Mr. Griffin is present in the courtroom with his counsel. The State of Ohio is represented by Assistant Prosecuting Attorney Joseph Adler and Assistant Attorney General Christopher Kinsler. We are outside the presence of the jury. The jury view was undertaken. Mr. Gordon. Yes, sir. Did you take the jury for the jury view? I did. And how were they transported? By vans. Did they all fit in one van? We had two vans. All right. Who drove the other van? Mr. Gossi. All right. Did you read the script that was prepared by the parties? I did. And did you follow that script? I did. And do you have a copy of the very -- or do you have the script that you read from? I did. Can you approach? Thank you. I'm holding Courts Exhibit 36, Agreed Jury View Script. And again, that's what was read to the jury?
[01:16:18] Speaker ?: That's correct.
[01:16:19] Speaker 1: With the instructions? Yes. Did anyone have any contact with the jury? No. Did you overhear any of the jury discussing this case? No. Thank you. Mr. Gossi, did you drive the other van of the jurors? I did. Did you hear them undertake any discussions about this case? No. Did you view or witness them have any contact with anyone other than themselves and you and Mr. Gossi? No. All right. Mr. Schemansky, do you have anything to add?
[01:16:52] Speaker 3: We're satisfied. Thank you, Your Honor.
[01:16:54] Speaker 1: Okay. Mr. Bavra?
[01:16:55] Speaker 3: Nothing, Judge.
[01:16:56] Speaker 1: Okay. Mr. Bavra, outside the presence of the jury, is there any issues you need to address? No, Judge. Mr. Schemansky? We're ready to roll, Your Honor. Thank you. Okay. Mr. Gorence, if you'll bring in the jury. Yes, sir.
[01:17:10] Speaker ?: Mr. Gorence, if you'll bring in the jury. Thank you, Mr. Gorence. Thank you, Mr. Gorence. Thank you, Mr. Gorence. Thank you, Mr. Gorence. Thank you, Mr. Gorence. Thank you, Mr. Gorence. Thank you, Mr. Gorence. Thank you, Mr. Gorence. Thank you, Mr. Gorence. Thank you, Mr. Gorence. Thank you, Mr. Gorence. Thank you, Mr. Gorence. Thank you, Mr. Gorence. Thank you, Mr. Gorence. Thank you, Mr. Gorence. Thank you, Mr. Gorence. Thank you, Mr. Gorence. Mr. Gorence. Thank you, Mr. Gorence. Thank you, Mr. Gorence.
[01:18:29] Speaker 1: Everybody can have a seat while we're waiting. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, have any problems following my orders? No one is raising their hand. Any violations to report of my order? No one has raised their hand. Thank you. All right. At this time, Mr. Bavra, is the state of Ohio ready to present their case? Yes, sir. Then you may call your first witness. And you can try it.
[01:19:45] Speaker 5: Yes, sir. And what's your step? Stand on the top step. Face me right here, please. Do you swear the testimony you're about to give me the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth to God? Have a seat there if you're so comfortable.
[01:20:03] Speaker 1: Sir, before we begin, do you object to being filmed? No. All right. Mr. Bavra, whenever you're ready to proceed.
[01:20:18] Speaker 6: Sir, can you tell us your name? Eddie Cutrer. Can you spell your last name for the court reporter? C-U-T-R-E-R.
[01:20:30] Speaker 2: And, Mr. Cutrer, where are you from? Arkansas. How long have you lived in Arkansas? Six, almost seven years now.
[01:20:39] Speaker 6: And who do you live in Arkansas with? My wife, Ann. How long have you and Ann been married? 41 years. And tell us about your family. How many children do you have? Well, my son's here today. Our oldest daughter's here today. And a younger daughter's still at home. So currently we have three children total. And you are the father of Angela Strussian as well? Correct. Did you have a total of four children at one point? Yes. What do you do for a living? Are you retired? I'm retired now. What did you do? I was a sales manager at a material handling company in Fort Worth, Texas. How long have you been retired? 10 years. Tell us about your daughter, Angela. That's difficult. Where did she grow up? She grew up in Texas, basically. She was born in Louisiana, but she spent the majority of her life in Texas. Graduate from high school? Yes. College? She attended. She didn't graduate from college. What did she do for a living? She worked for JP Morgan Chase at their payment tech division. And she was a team leader. She had several of their sales people for the credit card business that she was responsible for. And she left there. She left there, went in business for herself, basically doing the same type of business. And then when they moved to Ohio, she had secured a job with Fiserv, basically doing the same type of business.
[01:22:41] Speaker 2: Do you know what kind of company Fiserv is? No, sir. Somewhere in the finance world? Yes. When you said the name moved to Ohio, who are you talking about? Tom and Angela. Do you know when the two of them met?
[01:22:57] Speaker 6: Oh, gosh. Maybe 2010? Do you know where they met? It was in Texas, Arlington, Fort Worth area, from a dating site.
[01:23:19] Speaker 2: They eventually get married. Yes, sir. When was that?
[01:23:29] Speaker 6: I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm bad with dates. I don't know. My wife and I were traveling at the time and we did not attend their wedding. I want to say it was like 2016 or 17.
[01:23:46] Speaker 2: You said you retired about 10 years ago, right? Yes, sir. Was it around the time you retired? It was a little after that. Okay. So 10 years ago, something like that? Yes. All right. Where were they living when they got married?
[01:24:00] Speaker 6: In Arlington, Texas, on Winding Creek.
[01:24:05] Speaker 2: And you said eventually they moved to Ohio. Yes. Do you remember when that was? Roughly?
[01:24:16] Speaker 6: 2017, 18 maybe? Somewhere in that neighborhood. I'm sorry.
[01:24:21] Speaker 2: Do you remember why they moved to Ohio?
[01:24:24] Speaker 6: Yes. Tom wanted to get back to his home ground, so to speak, to open a restaurant or restaurants.
[01:24:33] Speaker 2: Had they been in that kind of business in Texas?
[01:24:36] Speaker 6: Yes, sir. At several locations within the Northwest Texas area, North Texas area, basically.
[01:24:46] Speaker 2: So eventually they come here and start a business here? Yes, sir. And do you know the name of the business?
[01:24:53] Speaker 6: Salsa Joe's.
[01:24:55] Speaker 2: And there were two Salsa Joe's that were, correct? Yes, sir. Where was the first one?
[01:25:01] Speaker 6: Here in Ohio on National Highway.
[01:25:04] Speaker 2: Do you know where they moved to when they moved to Ohio?
[01:25:09] Speaker 6: Yes, sir. Trails End Drive in Belmont there.
[01:25:14] Speaker 2: Is that the house they lived in until the time of their death? Yes, sir. Were you familiar with how they ran their business?
[01:25:27] Speaker 6: Not in a day-to-day business. I know my daughter took care of the books, payroll, things of that nature. She wasn't a day-to-day employee because she had a full-time job with Fiserv.
[01:25:45] Speaker 2: Do you know Tom's role in the business?
[01:25:50] Speaker 6: Yes, they were his recipes that they used to cook. And he was a greeter, fresh to flesh, and everybody knew him. So he was, I think you mentioned earlier, the face of the business. And that was his primary function.
[01:26:12] Speaker 2: Did you ever go to either of the restaurants?
[01:26:15] Speaker 6: Yes, both of them.
[01:26:17] Speaker 2: Visited the one in Belmont?
[01:26:19] Speaker 6: Yes, sir.
[01:26:20] Speaker 2: Roughly how many times?
[01:26:22] Speaker 6: Oh, all together, I don't know, 10, 15 times. Maybe more than that. Because I spent some time up here.
[01:26:28] Speaker 2: How about the restaurant that we broke? Did you go to that?
[01:26:34] Speaker 6: I did go there, two or three times.
[01:26:37] Speaker 2: Tell us about, you said you spent some time up here. Tell us about those visits.
[01:26:46] Speaker 6: The first one was in March of '21. My wife thought it would be a good idea for me to get out of the house. So I came up here and visited and was here for about a week in March of '21. Where did you stay?
[01:27:07] Speaker 2: With Angela and Tom. At the Trails at Dry property?
[01:27:09] Speaker 6: Yes, sir.
[01:27:10] Speaker 2: When you were here for that visit, did you meet anybody else? Yes, sir.
[01:27:12] Speaker 6: Andrew Griffin.
[01:27:13] Speaker ?: Tell us about the circumstance, how you met Andrew Griffin.
[01:27:14] Speaker 2: At Angela and Tom's house, he drove up pulling a big trailer that had a large smoker on it. And that was the first time I met him.
[01:27:19] Speaker 6: Had you heard of him before that? No, sir.
[01:27:21] Speaker 2: Did you interact with him when you met him? Casual conversation. Yes, sir. I didn't see anybody else.
[01:27:25] Speaker 6: I didn't see anybody else. Yes, sir. Andrew Griffin. Tell us about the circumstance, how you met Andrew Griffin. At Angela and Tom's house, he drove up pulling a big trailer that had a large smoker on it. And that was the first time I'd met him.
[01:27:38] Speaker 2: Had you heard of him before that?
[01:27:41] Speaker 6: No, sir. Okay.
[01:27:43] Speaker 2: Did you interact with him when you met him?
[01:27:46] Speaker 6: Casual conversation. As a matter of fact, he was putting some diff in his diesel truck. So, just general conversation.
[01:27:55] Speaker 2: Where was he staying at the time?
[01:27:58] Speaker 6: He stayed at the house as well. I told him I was already there and had the bedroom. So he had the couch.
[01:28:05] Speaker 2: Did you eventually learn that he and your daughter and son-in-law were going in the business together? Yes. What was your understanding of that? I'm sorry. Hold on, sir. Hold on, sir.
[01:28:23] Speaker ?: Can you vote? Sir.
[01:28:25] Speaker 1: Did you ever come to learn about any kind of business relationship between Mr. Griffin and your daughter and son-in-law?
[01:28:38] Speaker ?: Yes, sir. Okay. Where did you get that information from?
[01:28:41] Speaker 2: From, specifically, Tom and Angela had some input as well. And they discussed this with you directly? Yes. Okay. What was your understanding of the business relationship? That Andrew was there to work in the Elm Grove location. He was there to work in the Elm Grove location. He was there to work in the Elm Grove location. He was there to work in the Elm Grove location. He was there to work in the Elm Grove location. He was there to work in the Elm Grove location.
[01:28:55] Speaker 6: He was there to work in the Elm Grove location. And, specifically, Tom and Angela had some input as well.
[01:29:00] Speaker 2: And they discussed this with you directly? Yes.
[01:29:04] Speaker ?: Okay.
[01:29:05] Speaker 2: What was your understanding of the business relationship?
[01:29:08] Speaker 6: That Andrew was there to work in the Elm Grove location, learn the business, become a franchisee. And Andrew had said he thought he could put ten locations in the Indian reservations in Oklahoma.
[01:29:28] Speaker 2: Did you hear him say that? Yes. Okay. So he said that to you directly?
[01:29:32] Speaker 6: Yes, sir.
[01:29:37] Speaker 2: Did you have any idea about financial arrangements or anything like that?
[01:29:41] Speaker 6: The only thing I knew was he was building sweat equity, getting the West Virginia location up and running. And learning the business.
[01:29:54] Speaker 2: You interacted with Mr. Griffin in March when he was at the house. Did you have other interactions with him?
[01:30:01] Speaker 6: Not until later after September.
[01:30:08] Speaker 2: After the murders?
[01:30:10] Speaker 6: Yes, sir.
[01:30:15] Speaker 2: You were here in March. You mentioned some other visits. What other times were you up here in Dunlap County? In August.
[01:30:23] Speaker 6: The same year, '21. And what was the purpose of baptism? My wife and I were traveling and we had an RV and we stayed at Bark Camp. She got COVID at the time and I didn't. So she suggested I go stay with Tom and Angela again. And she wound up breaking her foot as well. So I spent the entire time with them and she stayed in the RV by herself. You said you spent the time with them.
[01:30:51] Speaker ?: Tell us a little bit about that. What were you doing?
[01:30:53] Speaker 6: Tom would take me with him to go look at restaurant equipment. He put me to work in the Ohio National Highway location prepping some chicken breast and a lot of busy work. And he showed me the facility in West Virginia. So Angela was working the whole time so she didn't have much interaction in the daytime hours. And Tom would generally cook in the evening when he got home.
[01:31:41] Speaker 2: Did you ever see Tom handle any of the finances associated with the businesses?
[01:31:50] Speaker 6: I know he had the bank bags when they closed up at night. Other than, you know, he would get money out of the tills, cash. But as far as any direct other financial dealings, I really don't know of any.
[01:32:17] Speaker 2: That's what I'm asking about, what you actually saw. Can you tell us about the bank bags?
[01:32:23] Speaker 6: At the end of the day, the waitresses would close out their bags. And they'd have a tally sheet in there, how much in cash, how much in credit card receipts, how much change. And because they were paying out of their, a lot of times, out of their waitress aprons. So those bags would come in at night. Tom would bring them home. And they'd be there at the house, I guess, until Angela the next morning went through them and straightened them out and then put so much money back in there to start the day, the next day with.
[01:33:03] Speaker 2: Did you actually saw the bags?
[01:33:04] Speaker 6: Yes.
[01:33:05] Speaker 2: Saw them at the house? Mm-hmm. Did you see the contents on the inside?
[01:33:08] Speaker 6: If there was one lying there that was unzipped, you could look in there and see there was some money in there. There were credit card receipts. But as far as how much money or how many credit card receipts, no. I didn't pour through them or anything. And do you remember what the bags looked like?
[01:33:29] Speaker 2: What color they were? I think most of them were red.
[01:33:34] Speaker 6: I want to say maybe there was a blue one in there.
[01:33:37] Speaker 2: Tell us a little bit more about your son-in-law, Tom. What was he like as a person?
[01:33:57] Speaker 1: Uh...
[01:33:58] Speaker 2: Object, Your Honor.
[01:34:00] Speaker 1: Approach.
[01:34:02] Speaker 2: We talked a little bit before about Tom and his role in the business and handling these bank bags. Mm-hmm. Did you see Tom with cash often?
[01:34:26] Speaker 6: Yes, sir.
[01:34:27] Speaker 2: Okay. Tell us about that.
[01:34:31] Speaker 6: Everywhere that I was ever with Tom, whenever it was in Texas or here, he always had a large roll of money or a slab of money in his pocket, right front pocket. And he'd pull it out to either pay a bill or whatever. And it was always $100 bills that I saw. But I don't know what else was in that roll or slab of money as far as denominations.
[01:34:59] Speaker 2: Was that pretty much every time you were around us? Pretty much.
[01:35:05] Speaker 6: We had a... I think it was a Thanksgiving lunch. And this goes back to the time in Arlington. And our niece was there and he played a card game with her. And she didn't have any money. And she didn't have any money. She was between five and seven years old. And he said, "Do you want to play a game?" And she said, "Sure, but I don't have any money." And he said, "I'll loan you money." So he gave her $100. And she lost the first bet. And he took the $100 back. And he said, "How about we go double or nothing?" And she did and won $200. So she was $200 ahead. He said, "Give me a chance to get my money back. Let's just play another round." And he lost that one too. And he lost that one too. So she walked away with $300. He let her win all of those. So... He always had money.
[01:35:59] Speaker 2: Yesterday, we met at the CrossFit office, correct? Correct. And we showed you a picture of Tom and Andrew. Do you remember that?
[01:36:07] Speaker 6: I do.
[01:36:08] Speaker 2: Judge, I have to ask permission to explain this to the jury. It stays at 167. No objection, Your Honor.
[01:36:14] Speaker 1: Then you may proceed.
[01:36:16] Speaker 2: You see that picture there?
[01:36:27] Speaker 6: I do.
[01:36:28] Speaker 2: And that's a picture of your daughter and your son-in-law? It is. And do you remember when that was taken?
[01:36:34] Speaker 6: It was in December of... Geez.
[01:36:42] Speaker ?: I can't remember if it was...
[01:36:43] Speaker 6: I'm drawing a blank on the year. I'm sorry. But I know it was December and it was in... I believe it was in Arlington. There was a winter wonderland. December, but I can't think of the year.
[01:37:04] Speaker ?: I'm sorry.
[01:37:04] Speaker 2: Do you remember where you were on September 21, 2021? Absolutely.
[01:37:21] Speaker 6: Absolutely.
[01:37:22] Speaker 2: And do you remember when you found out about Andrew's passing?
[01:37:27] Speaker 6: I do.
[01:37:28] Speaker 2: Tell us about that. What were you and what happened?
[01:37:32] Speaker 6: Well, I was at the veterinary with the dog and my wife called and said, "You need to get home." And her voice was shaking. And I said, "Well, I've got one other stop to make and I'll make that and I'll come home." She said, "No, you need to come home now." And her older brother's been in relatively bad health for a while. So I thought something had happened to him.
[01:38:17] Speaker ?: So...
[01:38:18] Speaker 6: I drove directly home. And when I walked in, she told me that Angela had died.
[01:38:27] Speaker 2: At that point, did you know the circumstances at all?
[01:38:31] Speaker 6: Not at that moment. That's all she said. Later, that same day, found out about a fire and all that. And that's all we knew at that point. So...
[01:38:42] Speaker 2: Upon getting this information, what did you do?
[01:38:46] Speaker 6: Cried.
[01:38:47] Speaker 2: Did you eventually come to Belmont County?
[01:38:51] Speaker 6: Yes, we did. We got there, I believe it was on the 23rd. Two days later, we drove up with our RV.
[01:39:09] Speaker 2: And at that point, had you learned that this was more than a fire? It was several days later.
[01:39:26] Speaker 6: It was after we met in the sheriff's department when we got there and it was a few days after that.
[01:39:30] Speaker 2: You had mentioned earlier some communication with Mr. Griffin after your daughter's passing. Yes, sir. Tell us about the circumstances of that.
[01:39:52] Speaker 6: I got in touch with Andrew and I felt that he was probably the best person to talk to because he was familiar with the inner workings of the business. He was there learning the trade and he may know where they had a problem with a supplier or a customer or something like that. We were just looking for any kind of lead that we could call and talk to the sheriffs about.
[01:40:34] Speaker 2: Was he open to talking to you about this? Yes, sir. And what was his response when you said you're looking for a lead, you're asking about issues with vendors, etc. What was his response?
[01:40:46] Speaker 6: That basically it looked like a mob hit and in the course of several conversations, it was always about potential mob hit, an employee of a family in West Virginia that had an individual that had special service, an employee of a family in West Virginia that had an individual that had special service, an employee of a family in West Virginia that had an individual that had special service, an employee of a family in West Virginia. And he said that that gentleman had cut people's hands off for this family in West Virginia that did them wrong.
[01:41:33] Speaker 2: How were you communicating with Andrew?
[01:41:36] Speaker 6: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[01:41:39] Speaker 2: Yeah. Text and phone calls. Okay.
[01:41:42] Speaker 6: And do you recall when roughly you started talking to him? Shortly after we got back to Arkansas from up here. Okay. And do you remember how long you continued to talk to him?
[01:41:49] Speaker 2: About three or four months. And this talk about the mob, the mafia, was that in one conversation?
[01:42:08] Speaker 6: No, several. No, several. He always was bringing up possibilities of mobs and his one comment that he made a couple of times was he feared for his life. That's why he left up here.
[01:42:27] Speaker 2: Why did you stop talking to him? Was there a particular reason?
[01:42:40] Speaker 6: Hey, there was no more return communication. No phone calls, no text messages. We're unanswered.
[01:42:58] Speaker 2: You were a part of handling, resolving your daughter's estate, correct?
[01:43:06] Speaker 6: Yes.
[01:43:07] Speaker 2: For your knowledge, at any point did Mr. Griffin file any kind of claim in that estate?
[01:43:13] Speaker 6: No, sir.
[01:43:14] Speaker 2: Did you ever accompany Tom on trips to Columbus?
[01:43:40] Speaker 6: Yes, sir.
[01:43:41] Speaker 2: Did these trips to Columbus ever come up in discussions with Mr. Griffin?
[01:43:48] Speaker 6: About my trip? Yes. Not that I recall, no. Okay.
[01:43:55] Speaker 2: Did Mr. Griffin ever bring up trips to Columbus with you that he went on with Tom?
[01:44:00] Speaker 6: Yes.
[01:44:01] Speaker 2: Can you tell us about, these were conversations with Mr. Griffin? Yes. Can you tell us about those conversations?
[01:44:07] Speaker 6: They went to buy restaurant equipment and the seller wouldn't take his check so Tom instructed Andrew to go out in the truck and get the money out of a bag in the truck, which was about $20,000 or $30,000. Can you tell us?
[01:44:32] Speaker ?: Can you tell us about the numbers? Can you tell us about the numbers? Can you tell us about the numbers? Can you tell us about the numbers? Can you tell us about the numbers? Can you tell us about the numbers? Can you tell us about the numbers? Can you tell us about the numbers? Can you tell us about the numbers? Can you tell us about the numbers?
[01:44:42] Speaker 2: Can you tell us about the numbers? Can you tell us about the numbers? Can you tell us about the numbers? Can you tell us about the numbers? Can you tell us about the numbers? Can you tell us about the numbers? Can you tell us about the numbers? Can you tell us about the numbers?
[01:44:50] Speaker ?: Can you tell us about the numbers? Can you tell us about the numbers? Can you tell us about the numbers? Can you tell us about the numbers? Can you tell us about the numbers?
[01:44:55] Speaker 2: Can you tell us about the numbers? Can you tell us about the numbers? Can you tell us about the numbers?
[01:44:58] Speaker 6: Can you tell us about the numbers? Can you tell us about the numbers?
[01:45:00] Speaker 2: Can you tell us about the numbers? Can you tell us about the numbers? Can you tell us about the numbers?
[01:45:03] Speaker 6: Can you tell us about the numbers? Can you tell us about the numbers?
[01:45:05] Speaker 2: Can you tell us about the numbers? Can you tell us about the numbers? Can you tell us about the numbers?
[01:45:08] Speaker 6: Can you tell us about the numbers? Can you tell us about the numbers?
[01:45:10] Speaker ?: Can you tell us about the numbers?
[01:45:11] Speaker 6: Can you tell us about the numbers? Can you tell us about the numbers?
[01:45:13] Speaker 2: Can you tell us about the numbers? Can you tell us about the numbers? Can you tell us about the numbers?
[01:45:16] Speaker ?: Can you tell us about the numbers? Can you tell us about the numbers? Can you tell us about the numbers?
[01:45:19] Speaker 6: Can you tell us about the numbers? Can you tell us about the numbers? Can you tell us about the numbers? Can you tell us about the numbers?
[01:45:31] Speaker 2: Can you tell us about the numbers? Can you tell us about the numbers?
[01:45:33] Speaker ?: Can you tell us about the numbers? Can you tell us about the numbers? Can you tell us about the numbers?
[01:45:36] Speaker 6: Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:45:40] Speaker 2: Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:45:43] Speaker 6: Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:45:44] Speaker 3: Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:45:47] Speaker 1: Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:45:50] Speaker ?: Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:45:51] Speaker 3: Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:46:02] Speaker 7: Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:46:03] Speaker ?: Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:46:04] Speaker 3: Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:46:11] Speaker ?: Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:46:12] Speaker 3: Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:46:23] Speaker 6: Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:46:31] Speaker ?: Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:46:35] Speaker 6: Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:46:36] Speaker ?: Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:46:37] Speaker 3: Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:46:39] Speaker ?: Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:46:41] Speaker 3: Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:46:51] Speaker 6: Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:46:52] Speaker 3: Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:47:12] Speaker 6: Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:47:13] Speaker 3: Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:47:15] Speaker ?: Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:47:16] Speaker 1: Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:47:31] Speaker ?: Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:47:39] Speaker 1: Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:47:42] Speaker 2: Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:47:43] Speaker ?: Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:47:51] Speaker 5: Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:48:01] Speaker ?: Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:48:20] Speaker 2: Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:48:31] Speaker 8: Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:48:32] Speaker 2: Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:48:34] Speaker 8: Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:48:36] Speaker 2: Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:48:38] Speaker 8: Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:48:41] Speaker 2: Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:48:43] Speaker 8: Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:48:45] Speaker 2: Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:48:49] Speaker 8: Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:49:09] Speaker ?: Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:49:10] Speaker 2: Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:49:13] Speaker 8: Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:49:14] Speaker 2: Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:49:18] Speaker 8: Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:49:19] Speaker 2: Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:49:20] Speaker 8: Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:49:22] Speaker 2: Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:49:31] Speaker 8: Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:49:35] Speaker ?: Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:49:37] Speaker 2: Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:49:39] Speaker ?: Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:49:40] Speaker 2: Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:49:43] Speaker ?: Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:49:44] Speaker 2: Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:49:48] Speaker 8: Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:49:49] Speaker 2: Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:49:50] Speaker ?: Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:49:51] Speaker 8: Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:50:01] Speaker 2: Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:50:04] Speaker 8: Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:50:17] Speaker ?: Can we tell us about the numbers?
[01:50:18] Speaker 2: Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Can we tell us about the numbers? Now, some of the things that have been collected in this case, you have been directly involved with.
[01:50:37] Speaker 8: Yes, sir.
[01:50:38] Speaker 2: And one of the things we have talked about is some 911 calls that came to the Sheriff's Department, correct?
[01:50:44] Speaker 8: That's correct.
[01:50:45] Speaker 2: You're familiar with those calls?
[01:50:46] Speaker 8: Yes, I'm correct. Sorry. I'm familiar with them.
[01:50:49] Speaker ?: Yes.
[01:50:50] Speaker 2: And do you recall how many came in?
[01:50:52] Speaker 8: I believe there were three, sir.
[01:50:54] Speaker 2: And do you recall the time that they came in?
[01:50:57] Speaker 8: It would have been around 7:00 in the morning that that call came in with 911.
[01:51:01] Speaker 2: And you said there were three calls?
[01:51:03] Speaker 8: Yes. Judge, at this time, I have permission to play states exhibit 1-3-0.
[01:51:10] Speaker 3: Go, Judge, in your honor.
[01:51:12] Speaker 1: You may proceed.
[01:51:27] Speaker 2: All right. Judge, back we are playing. 62-1-3-0.
[01:51:48] Speaker 9: John Wall County 911, where's your emergency? Hey, this is John. Where's your garage? Huh? Across the street from us, it looks like this funny fellow's house is on fire. Yeah, the corner there of Trillman and Pankos. Yeah, yeah. Okay, we're getting them over there. Okay, did somebody already call in, like the owner?
[01:52:09] Speaker ?: I believe a neighbor called her then. Okay, yeah, we're going to go check it out, make sure nobody's in there or something. Okay, just don't get too close. I don't believe there's anybody in there, so.
[01:52:22] Speaker 9: Okay. Good. All right, good. Thank you. All right, thank you. Bye, bye. Bye, bye.
[01:52:28] Speaker 2: Judge, permission to play. It says it's about 1-30-A. Judge, any of these, Your Honor. Thank you.
[01:52:35] Speaker 1: All right, then you may proceed.
[01:52:40] Speaker 10: So, we're counting on 1-7. Okay, it's on the corner of San Jose and Pankos and Pankos and Pankos and Pankos and Pankos. Okay, well, do you know if anyone's in the house?
[01:52:54] Speaker 9: No, I don't think there is, but there's dogs in there.
[01:52:57] Speaker 10: Okay, there's animals in there. Okay, well, get them out there, sir. Thank you. Thank you. All right.
[01:53:07] Speaker 2: Judge, permission to play, 1-30-B.
[01:53:10] Speaker 1: Hey, Mr. Schmancy, you're looking at the list on the screen. Yes. Do you have any objection to any? No, sir. All right. You may proceed.
[01:53:21] Speaker 9: Someone coming on. One second. Yeah, we got a house on fire. If you're going to the Pankos Road and the Trails End Road.
[01:53:28] Speaker 10: Okay, one second, sir. Is everybody out of the house?
[01:53:31] Speaker 9: I don't know. We're just going up there. Everyone gets it.
[01:53:36] Speaker 10: Pankos Road and what else? What's that? Pankos Road and what else? Trails End. Trails End. Okay. Do you know if anyone's home? No, I don't know. Okay. What's your name? Trails End. Okay. All right. Is this train number 3109543?
[01:53:56] Speaker ?: Yes.
[01:53:57] Speaker 10: Okay. We'll get someone out there. All right.
[01:54:04] Speaker 2: Those are the three 911 calls that came in regarding this.
[01:54:07] Speaker 8: Yes, sir.
[01:54:13] Speaker 2: You had mentioned earlier. You had mentioned earlier cell phone data, cell phone towers, correct? Yes, sir. What's a cell phone tower?
[01:54:20] Speaker 8: A cell phone tower is basically a communication tower where incoming calls go and text messages and they get dispatched out accordingly through the network that they're on.
[01:54:30] Speaker 2: And in this case, we're looking at the cell phone tower. And in this case, were you looking at a specific cell phone tower?
[01:54:33] Speaker 8: Yes, sir.
[01:54:35] Speaker 2: And roughly, what are the locations of the towers we're talking about?
[01:54:38] Speaker 8: One of the locations of the towers was at the rest area in 70. Right behind the rest area, there's a cellular tower there. There's a cellular tower inside or outside of Belmont Corporation. We were looking at that area as well. And there's a cellular tower west of the crime scene on a township road.
[01:55:00] Speaker 2: And as a part of your investigation, you and I think a St. Clair'sville police officer went out to the scene of the house and took some drone footage, correct?
[01:55:12] Speaker 8: Yes, sir. That's correct.
[01:55:13] Speaker 2: What was the purpose of doing that?
[01:55:15] Speaker 8: The purpose is to just kind of get an overview of the general scene as to where things are at orientation-wise, where the towers are to the crime scene, and where other places of interest are at.
[01:55:26] Speaker 2: And you were present when these drone videos were taken?
[01:55:28] Speaker 8: Yes, sir. I was.
[01:55:31] Speaker 2: Judge, we have marked three videos of drone videos, states exhibit 149, 149A, and 149B. At this point, I'd ask permission to play.
[01:55:40] Speaker 3: And we have no objection to the publishing of any of those videos, your honor.
[01:55:44] Speaker 1: Thank you. You may proceed.
[01:55:48] Speaker 2: States exhibit 149. Can you tell us what we're looking at here?
[01:56:01] Speaker 8: That was the crime scene location on Trails End Drive.
[01:56:06] Speaker 2: Trails End, the road would be over here? Yes, sir. On the left side of the screen, and then house and backyard on the right.
[01:56:12] Speaker 8: That's correct.
[01:56:16] Speaker 2: So we saw the video there kind of pan up, and then zoom. What was the purpose of that?
[01:56:47] Speaker 8: That communication tower was one of the places of interest in this investigation, so I wanted to show the orientation of where the house was to the cellular tower in question.
[01:57:00] Speaker 2: Okay, what are we looking at here to start this video?
[01:57:18] Speaker 8: So that would be the location of the crime scene in question there, along with Trails End Drive and the adjacent road there, Panko South.
[01:57:26] Speaker 2: Last video, it looks like we were looking kind of west to east. Yes. Kind of north to south.
[01:57:31] Speaker 8: That would be north to south, yes, sir.
[01:57:34] Speaker 2: Final one. We see where Interstate 70 is there in relation to the house?
[01:57:55] Speaker 8: Yes, sir.
[01:57:58] Speaker 2: Final 149B. Now, what are we looking at here to start at 149B?
[01:58:16] Speaker 8: So those are two communication towers that are south of the crime scene, and they are located outside the village of Belmont.
[01:58:36] Speaker 2: It's from the towers back to the location of the house.
[01:58:39] Speaker 8: Yes, sir. That's correct.
[01:58:49] Speaker 2: Okay. Now, some other items, information that you have obtained via subpoena or otherwise. First, let's talk about construction cell phone.
[01:59:05] Speaker 8: Yes, sir.
[01:59:05] Speaker 2: Where was that located?
[01:59:07] Speaker 8: The cellular phone in question was located inside the bathroom of the crime scene in the master bedroom.
[01:59:12] Speaker 2: That was collected as evidence?
[01:59:14] Speaker 8: It was.
[01:59:15] Speaker 2: And was access gained to that phone?
[01:59:20] Speaker 8: It was.
[01:59:20] Speaker 2: And how was that gained?
[01:59:22] Speaker 8: Through a Celebrate extraction.
[01:59:23] Speaker 2: Can you tell the jurors what a Celebrate extraction is?
[01:59:27] Speaker 8: Celebrate is a specific software that is utilized to perform digital forensics on cell phones. So once you plug the device in, the software is able to make an exact copy of that device, so that way it can be reviewed for investigatory purposes.
[01:59:43] Speaker 2: And so that was done with a number of phones in this case.
[01:59:46] Speaker 8: Yes, sir.
[01:59:47] Speaker 2: For purposes now, we know it's done with Tom's construction cell phone.
[01:59:51] Speaker 8: Yes, sir. That's correct.
[01:59:52] Speaker 2: Is that with Angela's construction cell phone?
[01:59:54] Speaker 8: Yes.
[01:59:54] Speaker 2: You were able to subpoena a number of financial records?
[02:00:02] Speaker 8: Yes, sir, I was.
[02:00:04] Speaker 2: You subpoenaed Brett Kohl's financial records with First United Bank?
[02:00:09] Speaker 8: I did.
[02:00:11] Speaker 2: We have copies of those?
[02:00:13] Speaker 8: We do.
[02:00:20] Speaker 2: You also subpoenaed a number of records for Andrew Griffin's known bank accounts, correct?
[02:00:25] Speaker 8: I did, yes.
[02:00:26] Speaker 2: And which bank did you subpoena those records from?
[02:00:30] Speaker 8: Arvest Bank.
[02:00:31] Speaker 2: And where's the? Arvest Bank is located in the south?
[02:00:36] Speaker 8: Yes.
[02:00:37] Speaker 2: It's all over the place, Arkansas, Texas, Oklahoma.
[02:00:40] Speaker 8: Yes, sir.
[02:00:43] Speaker 2: So we have the entirety of his records?
[02:00:46] Speaker 8: We do.
[02:00:46] Speaker 2: From what time period?
[02:00:49] Speaker 8: Would be from September 19, 2021 to September 21, 2021, in one section, and then we have an expansive set of records all throughout the 2021 time period.
[02:01:08] Speaker 2: We have a cell phone I know you believe to belong to Brett Kohl, correct?
[02:01:17] Speaker 8: Yes, sir.
[02:01:18] Speaker 2: And were you able to subpoena on the records associated with that phone?
[02:01:22] Speaker 8: Yes, sir, I was.
[02:01:23] Speaker 2: And who is the cell phone provider for that one?
[02:01:26] Speaker 8: So the cellular provider was Carolyn Babcock, which is Mr. Kohl's mother.
[02:01:32] Speaker 2: She's on the account?
[02:01:33] Speaker 8: She is.
[02:01:34] Speaker 2: Who is the cell phone provider?
[02:01:36] Speaker 8: U.S. Cellular.
[02:01:38] Speaker 2: And just so the jury is clear, does U.S. Cellular exist anymore?
[02:01:42] Speaker 8: It does not.
[02:01:43] Speaker 2: Who now owns U.S. Cellular?
[02:01:45] Speaker 8: T-Mobile bought out U.S. Cellular.
[02:01:48] Speaker 2: And those are records we're able to obtain?
[02:01:50] Speaker 8: Yes, sir.
[02:01:59] Speaker 2: We talked about some other cell phones that have recently been provided by Stacy Griffin, correct?
[02:02:06] Speaker 8: Yes, sir.
[02:02:09] Speaker 2: Those cell phones have been sent for extraction?
[02:02:12] Speaker 8: They have.
[02:02:13] Speaker 2: And we have received those cell abstractions?
[02:02:15] Speaker 8: We have also, yes.
[02:02:16] Speaker 2: The cell phone that we indicated we believe belonged to Brett Cole, that has also been extracted to celebrate extraction?
[02:02:38] Speaker 8: Yes, sir. That's correct. That's correct.
[02:02:39] Speaker 2: Throughout the course of the investigation, multiple items were taken from the scene of the crime, correct?
[02:03:02] Speaker 8: Yes, sir.
[02:03:02] Speaker 2: Inside the home?
[02:03:03] Speaker 8: Inside the home.
[02:03:04] Speaker 2: And not all of them, but a number of them had been tested by our crime-like BCI?
[02:03:09] Speaker 8: Yes, sir. That's correct.
[02:03:11] Speaker 2: And when we say tested, we're talking about DNA, we're talking about fingerprints?
[02:03:15] Speaker 8: Yes.
[02:03:16] Speaker 2: Is it fair to say that everything that was sent to BCI came out with negative results?
[02:03:22] Speaker 8: That's correct.
[02:03:32] Speaker 2: You also subpoenaed Brett Cole's Facebook records?
[02:03:35] Speaker 8: Yes, I did.
[02:03:36] Speaker 2: And we did receive those as a responsive document to you as a subpoena?
[02:03:42] Speaker 8: Yes, that's correct.
[02:03:45] Speaker 2: Tell us about the case.
[02:03:46] Speaker ?: Tell us about the case. Tell us about the case.
[02:03:46] Speaker 2: Tell us about the case. Tell us about the case. Tell us about the case. Tell us about the case.
[02:03:50] Speaker 8: Tell us about the case. Ultimately, once Mr. Griffin, the defendant became a person of interest in this investigation, I authored a search warrant for the defendant's Apple iCloud backup and received responsive data pursuant to that warrant.
[02:04:04] Speaker 2: And we have that in the record.
[02:04:05] Speaker 8: Yes, sir. Thank you.
[02:04:13] Speaker 2: The journal videos that we looked at earlier, do you recall one of those were taken?
[02:04:17] Speaker 8: In July of 2025.
[02:04:32] Speaker 2: There's been some talk already about cell phone locations and data and things like that. For Brett Cole's cell phone, those records, were we able to obtain any location information?
[02:04:43] Speaker 8: No, sir.
[02:04:44] Speaker 2: Why not?
[02:04:45] Speaker 8: Once we had gotten information about Mr. Cole, I did author a search warrant for that associative records, and we were out of the timeframe where the provider kept those records. They have a retention policy, and we were beyond that retention policy, so we were not able to get the records for location for that timeframe.
[02:05:05] Speaker 2: How about any chains? Did we subpoena her for records? Yes, we did.
[02:05:09] Speaker 8: Okay.
[02:05:10] Speaker 2: And we did receive those?
[02:05:11] Speaker 8: Yes, sir.
[02:05:12] Speaker 2: Have you heard of providers AT&T? It is.
[02:05:14] Speaker 8: And we do have her location records, correct?
[02:05:16] Speaker 2: Yes, sir. That's correct.
[02:05:18] Speaker 8: Okay. Thank you.
[02:05:20] Speaker ?: Thank you. Thank you.
[02:05:22] Speaker 2: So, at this point, I don't have any further questions for this witness, but the state does reserve a regular recall in a later time.
[02:05:47] Speaker 1: Thank you. Mr. Schemansky, do you have any cross-examination? I do, Your Honor. You may proceed. Thank you.
[02:05:53] Speaker 3: Sergeant Blumley, good afternoon. Good afternoon, sir. It's clear to say that you are a highly educated and trained law enforcement official, correct? I've had some education, yes, sir.
[02:06:03] Speaker 8: Hold on. Some education?
[02:06:05] Speaker 3: Do you have a master's degree? I do. Bachelor's degree? Yes, sir. You've been taught, correct?
[02:06:10] Speaker 8: Yes, sir.
[02:06:11] Speaker 3: You're highly regarded in the law enforcement community, right?
[02:06:12] Speaker 8: I believe so, yes.
[02:06:13] Speaker 3: It's hard for you to say. Just say it. I do have qualifications, yes, sir. Right.
[02:06:17] Speaker ?: I mean, you're not the run-of-the-mill, hard-working detective.
[02:06:17] Speaker 3: You're distinguished by your educational background, correct? Yes, sir.
[02:06:19] Speaker 8: That's fair to say, right? Yes, sir.
[02:06:21] Speaker 3: Okay.
[02:06:22] Speaker ?: And the reason that's important is because you use your head.
[02:06:22] Speaker 8: Yes, sir. Right?
[02:06:24] Speaker ?: And you rely on your training.
[02:06:24] Speaker 3: Yes, sir. And through that training, you've come to realize that, in putting together cases, whether it's a run-of-the-mill, low-level, low-level phone call, whether it's a run-of-the-mill, low-level felony, or something as important as this proceeding, that the quality of the case depends on the quality of the evidence. Right? That's correct, sir. And when you're asked by the government in this case, what did you do at the crime scene, of course the answer is you did everything you could to try to obtain physical evidence, correct? Yes, sir. Because you know, and your colleagues know, and I'm not suggesting this is the only type of evidence that's of value, but it's certainly a critical value in a situation where you're trying to place somebody at the scene of the crime, right?
[02:07:22] Speaker 8: Correct, sir.
[02:07:23] Speaker 3: DNA, correct? Correct. Fingerprints, correct? Correct, sir. Hair, correct? Correct, sir. Any type of bodily fluid, correct?
[02:07:30] Speaker 8: Yes, sir.
[02:07:31] Speaker 3: Footprints, correct? Yes, sir. All of this is critically important because your job is, to the best of your ability, to put the accused at the scene of the crime, right?
[02:07:40] Speaker 8: Yes, sir.
[02:07:41] Speaker 3: Now, we call that, well, we, you, I, judge, prosecutors, call that direct evidence, right?
[02:07:47] Speaker 8: Yes, sir. Okay.
[02:07:49] Speaker 3: Now, during your, during the course of your efforts in this case, you indicated that the location on Brett, we call it Brett Cole's cell phone, right? It's actually a phone that was subscribed to by his mother, correct?
[02:08:06] Speaker 8: That's correct, sir.
[02:08:07] Speaker 3: All right. So, his mother's cell phone, or the cell phone that was subscribed to by his mother, you've indicated correctly, has not been subject to any location data, right?
[02:08:20] Speaker 8: We were out of retention period. You're correct, sir.
[02:08:22] Speaker 3: Right. And, and, and that's not because you were lazy, right? They just didn't hang on to the, to the data, right?
[02:08:27] Speaker ?: Yes, sir.
[02:08:28] Speaker 3: And the reason that was critically important to you is in this cobweb of evidence and cell phones and individuals, it's important to rely on data as opposed to somebody's work, right?
[02:08:41] Speaker 8: Yes, sir.
[02:08:42] Speaker 3: You get lied to all the time by criminals, right? You get lied to all the time by criminals, right? That does happen.
[02:08:45] Speaker 8: Yes. It does happen?
[02:08:47] Speaker 3: I'm sorry?
[02:08:48] Speaker ?: Yeah.
[02:08:49] Speaker 3: People do lie.
[02:08:50] Speaker 8: Yes, sir.
[02:08:51] Speaker 3: My question was, in your role as a detective, how long have you been at this now? Three years, sir.
[02:08:56] Speaker 8: Okay.
[02:08:57] Speaker ?: Okay.
[02:08:58] Speaker 3: You get lied to all the time by, by people that are accused, right? And witnesses. Yes. Right. So it's your job to try to figure out who's telling the truth to do it?
[02:09:05] Speaker 8: Yes, sir.
[02:09:06] Speaker ?: That's why this data is so critically important, right?
[02:09:08] Speaker 8: Yes, sir.
[02:09:09] Speaker 3: That's why fingerprints and, and, and DNA and saliva footprints, et cetera, are so critically important, right? Yes, sir. Because the data is hard to refute, right?
[02:09:18] Speaker 8: Very difficult to refute.
[02:09:20] Speaker 3: Okay. Now, um. This, um, crime, hurt September 21, right?
[02:09:36] Speaker 8: Between September 20th and 21st, yes.
[02:09:39] Speaker 3: 2021.
[02:09:40] Speaker 8: Yes, sir.
[02:09:41] Speaker 3: You guys are working your tails off. You're trying to develop leads. You're running all over the county and all over the state and, frankly, all over the country, right?
[02:09:51] Speaker 1: Yes, sir.
[02:09:52] Speaker 3: And at some point, you learn that the accused's wife becomes a cooperating witness for you and your department, right? Yes. And, of course, as any good law enforcement official would do, you explain to her the abject importance of being a forthright and candid, correct? Yes, sir. And you explain to her how critical it was for you to gather evidence in a timely fashion, right?
[02:10:21] Speaker 8: Yes, sir.
[02:10:22] Speaker 3: You, in no time, told Stacy Griffin, "Oh, take your time, take a year or two, just make it easy on yourself with respect to the collection and gathering of God, Your Honor." Yes.
[02:10:34] Speaker ?: May I proceed, Your Honor? Yes.
[02:10:35] Speaker 3: And so, the answer to my previous question is, you never told anybody to lay off, right? No, sir. No, sir. And the truth of the matter is, the phones that were referenced by your colleagues in opening statement that just came into your possession about three weeks ago were always, to your knowledge, in the care and custody or at least in the home where Stacy Griffith lived, correct? Correct. So, lastly, sir, when you endeavored to obtain financial documents, such as withdrawals, deposits, purchases, anything you did in this case, did you also endeavor to obtain photographs of the individual who is making these withdrawals or deposits? No, sir. That's all I have.
[02:11:41] Speaker ?: Thank you.
[02:11:42] Speaker 3: Any redirect? No, guys.
[02:11:44] Speaker ?: No questions.
[02:11:45] Speaker 1: All right. May this be excused.
[02:11:47] Speaker ?: Yes, sir.
[02:11:48] Speaker 2: All right. You may step down. Yes, sir.
[02:11:51] Speaker 1: Thank you. Thank you. The gentleman jury been sitting for about a hour. Why don't you stand for a minute?
[02:12:10] Speaker ?: Please. Good. All right. Let's have. Mr. Banner?
[02:12:15] Speaker 1: Good. All right, let's have it. Mr. Bavard? You may call your next witness. Can we approach, Judge? Yes. Judge, we do have any witness that is here. All right, please disregard. You may call your next witness.
[02:13:00] Speaker 2: Yes, Mr. Bavard. Jeremy White.
[02:13:05] Speaker ?: Jeremy White. Jeremy White.
[02:13:19] Speaker 1: Sir, you're going to walk around the table and watch, there's a step.
[02:13:31] Speaker 5: Thank you, Your Honor. Sir, would you please state your name for the record? Jeremy Reif, Jr. What do you do, Mr. Reif? I am a captain with Cumberland Trail Fire District.
[02:13:47] Speaker 11: And how long have you been there? I have been there going on 10 years now. And I'm sorry, did you say what your role is or what your title is? Currently, I'm a captain. Okay. And how many years did you say you've been there? Uh, 10 total. Okay. And do you recall, while you're in your work capacity, did you respond to a fire at Trails End Drive, Belmont, Ohio, on September 21st, 2021? Yes. Okay. Where were you at when you first started?
[02:14:21] Speaker 7: Um, we were beginning shift change in the morning. So I remember being relatively early. We were at the firehouse still, whenever it came in. Okay. And how do you go there? Um, we responded with a crew of four from our station in St. Clairsville on fire engine. How long does it take you to get there? Um, approximately 10 minutes, I'd say. Okay. And when you say 10 minutes, is that 10 minutes of travel time or is that 10 minutes from the call? Um, we responded relatively quickly whenever we got the dispatch. So I'd say probably total 10 minutes. Okay. And who are you with? I'm with, um, Um, with, um, an engine company that consisted of myself. At the time, Captain Mike Lallini. Um, our operator was firefighter, Alex Gazzic. And then, um, another firefighter, Scott Richards. Okay. What do you find when you get on scene? Um, when we arrived on scene, uh, we saw kind of a lazy smoke coming from the eaves of the home. Do you have any idea what time of day was it that you got there? Early morning. Okay. Okay. Was it light out or dark out? Uh, it was just beginning to be light out. Okay. And I'm sorry, you indicated you saw lazy smoke. Yes. What does that mean to you? Um, the smoke wasn't very heavy coming from the structure. It was more of a lighter smoke and kind of like a slower velocity. Outside of the lazy smoke you described. Did you see anything else out of the ordinary? No. Okay. What do you do when you get on scene? Um, when we arrived on scene, we immediately got out of the truck and we were met by, um, um, I believe his rank is Assistant Chief Jake DeCosic, who informed us there was a possible patient in the rear of the structure. Um, Assistant Chief Jake DeCosic. Yes. Who is he with? I believe Belmont Fire Department. Okay.
[02:16:26] Speaker 11: You were with Cumberland. Yes. And he is with Belmont. Correct. To your knowledge, did any other fire departments respond? I believe Bethesda Fire Department responded as well. Okay. And outside of the Assistant Chief who you spoke to, what do you remember in terms of responsive personnel being present when you first arrived.
[02:16:49] Speaker 7: When we first arrived, I remember Bethesda's fire engine being there and they were working on trying to gain access to the front of the house. Okay. And where do you guys park your engine? Um, as soon as you turn off of the first road that you take off of 40, I can't recall the exact name of the road, um, onto Trails End. We parked right there at the beginning.
[02:17:13] Speaker 11: of Trails End. Okay. So are you in front of the house or are you a little further? Okay. And the other vehicles are just parked in the same area? Yeah. Okay. And you spoke to the Assistant Chief. I think you, you mentioned there's somebody responding at the front door or attempting to gain entry in the front door. What do you do? Um, myself and Firefighter Richards traveled around the left side of the home to the back deck. Okay. What did you find at the back deck? Um, we immediately noted a female victim.
[02:17:42] Speaker 7: I noted a female victim who appeared to be obviously deceased. Why would you say she's obviously deceased? Um, there was notable blood and trauma to her head. Okay. And what sort of trauma? Um, it was kind of hard to tell at the moment, but just a gross, um, um, massive trauma. Couldn't really determine exactly. Okay. She didn't show any signs of life. Correct. And was there anybody else present on the back deck? Um, not at that moment. No. Okay. And do you have any idea how she got to the back deck? Did you observe how she got to the back deck? I did not. Okay. And from there, what do you do? From there, um, shortly after we determined that she was obviously deceased, um, our captain at the time, um, um, our captain at the time had traveled around the opposite side of the building and met us. We okayed a primary search, which is us initially going in to look for any other victims and then entered the structure. Okay. When you entered the destruction, what are you wearing? Um, we were wearing full turnout gear, just your typical firefighters gear and then, uh, um, SCBA, which is our breathing apparatus. Okay. And let me back up. I asked you when you first arrived on scene, the condition of the house,
[02:18:56] Speaker 11: when you get to the back, you see the body. Did you observe anything else in terms of evidence of fire in the house? Um, not from the rear of the structure, no. Okay. Do you recall, was the back door open or closed when you first arrived?
[02:19:10] Speaker 7: It was closed whenever we arrived back there. Okay. Um, you mentioned when you came on scene,
[02:19:16] Speaker 11: the front door, I think you said Bethesda was attempting to enter the front door. To your knowledge, or from what you observed, did they enter that front door? Um, later on in the incident, yes. Okay. You mentioned that you made, uh, entry. Who made entry with you? Uh, firefighter Scott Richards. Okay. And you're geared up? Correct. Okay. When you go in the house, well, first of all, how did you get in the house? The door was unlocked. Okay. What kind of door was it? Do you recall?
[02:19:44] Speaker 7: I believe it was a, just double man door opening out on both sides, if I remember correctly. Okay.
[02:19:52] Speaker 11: What do you see when you first go in the house? Uh, we were met with heavy smoke,
[02:19:56] Speaker 7: very low visibility. So we had to get low to the ground. Okay. When you say heavy smoke,
[02:20:01] Speaker 11: could you see anything when you? No. Okay. And you said you go low to the ground. Do you crawl or do you walk? Uh, we crawled. Okay. And what do you do once you get in the house?
[02:20:11] Speaker 7: When we entered, we stuck to the right hand side of the room that we initially went into, um, just to remain oriented. Um, we traveled approximately 10 to 12 feet and firefighter, uh, Richards notified me that he believed he possibly found another victim. Okay.
[02:20:27] Speaker 11: Do you have any idea where that victim was located? Um, later in the incident at the time,
[02:20:33] Speaker 7: we couldn't tell exactly what kind of room we were in, but later in the incident, it was, um, determined to be the living area. Okay. Do you have any idea relative to the door where that body was found? Uh, it was about 10 to 12 feet, um, off to the right of the door.
[02:20:51] Speaker 11: When you go in that room and when you, uh, locate this body, can you see flames anywhere?
[02:20:58] Speaker 7: Um, there were flames approximately another 10 feet in front of us. Um, at the time, we couldn't determine exactly where in the structure they were, but we could see, um, a smaller glow indicating
[02:21:10] Speaker 11: that there was fire there. Okay. Is, is, are you feeling heat in this fire?
[02:21:15] Speaker 7: Um, yes. There, there was a little bit of heat remaining in the building.
[02:21:19] Speaker 11: At the point you've entered the home and you go inside and you're in that living area to recover the body, or you locate the body, excuse me. Are other firefighters, to your knowledge, are other firefighters making effort to, to extinguish the fire? Um, at the time,
[02:21:33] Speaker 7: whenever we located the body, we could tell that Bethesda still hadn't made entry from the front of the building.
[02:21:39] Speaker 11: Um, I believe they were still working on it. Okay. So at that point, they haven't gotten in that front door. Okay. You locate the body. What do you, do you remember anything about the, the appearance of the body or anything like that?
[02:21:52] Speaker 7: Um, due to the smoke, it was very difficult to determine what exactly was going on. We determined obviously that it was a body. Um, we could tell whenever we got close enough that he was prone lying face down with his head towards the front of the building. Okay. Um, and then we were able to radio to our command that we had found a victim and that we were going to bring them out.
[02:22:14] Speaker 11: And you may have testified to this, but I'm asking you the body that was outside when you first arrived on scene. Do you recall if that was male or female? Female. Okay. You find the body, uh, inside. It's prone face down head toward front door. Correct. Is it fair to say feet toward back door then as well? Yes. Okay. Did you, uh, observe any injuries to this body?
[02:22:42] Speaker 7: Um, inside it was difficult to tell just because of the limited visibility. Okay.
[02:22:47] Speaker 11: What do you and, uh, firefighter Richards do then?
[02:22:50] Speaker 7: At that point, we decided that it was quickest just to grab the, um, victim by the arms and legs and remove them from the structure as fast as possible. Okay.
[02:23:00] Speaker 11: Where did you remove them to?
[02:23:01] Speaker 7: To the, um, main entry point that we utilized the rear deck.
[02:23:05] Speaker 11: Same entry and exit? Correct. Okay. Um, once you're outside, are you able to observe that body? Yes. And what did you observe?
[02:23:13] Speaker 7: Um, massive trauma to the head again, um, large amounts of blood. It was, uh, obvious the victim was deceased. Okay.
[02:23:24] Speaker 11: At that point, what do you do from there?
[02:23:30] Speaker 7: From there, um, we located with our commanding officer at the time to reenter the structure and continue to search for any other possible victims.
[02:23:38] Speaker 11: Okay. Where do you go?
[02:23:40] Speaker 7: Um, we went right back in the same door that we had just come out of and then continued sticking to that right hand wall past where we had found the victim.
[02:23:48] Speaker 11: Okay. And do you wind up searching the whole first floor? Correct. Okay. Did you wind up searching upstairs? Yes. And what about the basement? Yes. Okay. Any other victims? We did not. Okay. And did you observe, uh, evidence of fire elsewhere in the house? Yes.
[02:24:07] Speaker 7: Um, not too far past where we had found the victim inside. There was still active fire in what appeared to be a closet area. Um, Bethesda had made entry at that point. So conditions started to improve a little bit to where we could kind of determine where we were in the building.
[02:24:23] Speaker 11: Do you recall how to, where Bethesda made entry? The front of the structure. Okay. Is that fair to say the front door? Yes. Okay. And you're saying that conditions were better at that point. What made conditions better?
[02:24:36] Speaker 7: Um, when they opened up that door, it allowed more smoke to lift and exit the structure.
[02:24:41] Speaker 11: Okay. Are they putting water at the fire at that point or no? Yes.
[02:24:45] Speaker 7: I'm sorry? Whenever we had met them at, I believe, the end of the hallway, they were working on getting the hand line in place and putting the fire up.
[02:24:52] Speaker 11: Okay. And a hand line, what does that mean?
[02:24:55] Speaker 7: It's your fire hose and nozzle.
[02:24:57] Speaker ?: Okay.
[02:24:58] Speaker 11: Um, other than the closet and that living room that you first entered, did you ever observe evidence of fire elsewhere in the house?
[02:25:06] Speaker 7: Um, from what I recall, there was an area in the bedroom that seemed to be that there was possibly a fire in there. And then we also noted the living area had a burn up couch.
[02:25:19] Speaker 11: Okay. When you say living area and burn up couch, where was that relative to the body recovered?
[02:25:24] Speaker 7: Right next to where we located the victim.
[02:25:27] Speaker 11: Okay. Outside of the entry that's made to the front door, are you aware of any other entries that the fire department, either your fire department or another fire department, would have made?
[02:25:43] Speaker 7: I am not.
[02:25:44] Speaker 11: Okay. Is it common for fire departments to vent a structure? Yes. And what does that mean?
[02:25:49] Speaker 7: Basically, they're going to utilize either windows, doors, or cutting a hole in the structure to allow, um, superheated gas and smoke to exit and improve conditions inside.
[02:26:00] Speaker 11: Okay. And what is the point of doing that?
[02:26:03] Speaker 7: Um, just to improve the overall conditions inside so you can see, continue to search and, um, to limit smoke damage. Okay.
[02:26:11] Speaker 11: Getting that smoke out of the area is important for you to see. Correct. Do you, are you aware, was that done in this case? Yes. Yes. And where would it have been done?
[02:26:19] Speaker 7: I believe that it was towards the left side of the structure on the roof. Okay.
[02:26:24] Speaker 11: And that's a vent, one of the vents you're describing. Yes. Anything else other than that that you're aware of?
[02:26:28] Speaker 7: I do not believe.
[02:26:30] Speaker 11: You mentioned that at some point Bethesda started putting water on that fire. Correct. Did the other fire departments also put water on that fire?
[02:26:53] Speaker 7: I believe that it was just that one hose line that was utilized.
[02:26:56] Speaker 11: Okay. And what, what, uh, do you have any idea how much water is used when you're putting on a fire?
[02:27:01] Speaker 7: It varies on the size of the fire. Um, the size of the fire that we were able to see there, kind of, it was difficult to tell how much extension there was into the building. So I'm not a hundred percent sure how they, how much water they used.
[02:27:16] Speaker 11: Do you recall in your search of the house, did you ever locate any pets? Yes.
[02:27:20] Speaker 7: Yes. In the garage, there were two deceased dogs. And then on the second floor, we located a deceased cat.
[02:27:26] Speaker 11: Okay. Do you have any idea how many firefighters were on scene?
[02:27:35] Speaker 7: Initially, I believe that there were six whenever we arrived on scene, including the four that I was with and then assistant chief Jake to Cossack and a off duty firefighter from Smith township. Um, afterwards it kind of just got so busy that it was hard to keep track of how many people were there.
[02:27:57] Speaker 11: So the six you're describing are that are those with your fire department?
[02:28:00] Speaker 7: No, four would be four with your department.
[02:28:03] Speaker 11: And I'm sorry, where were the other two from?
[02:28:05] Speaker 7: Uh, but Belmont and the other one is an employee at stone breakers, but he's an off duty fireman. I believe he was assisting.
[02:28:13] Speaker 11: You also mentioned Bethesda being there. Yes. Do you have any idea how many firefighters they had? I don't recall. Did they have an engine or what sort of, what sort of vehicle did they have? They had a fire engine, yes. How many people would typically staff a fire engine?
[02:28:26] Speaker 7: Typically four volunteer fire departments though. It could vary. It could be one person to four.
[02:28:31] Speaker 11: Is Bethesda a volunteer fire department? Yes. Okay. And then Belmont you said was also there. Correct. Do you have any idea how many firefighters they had? I don't recall. Okay. Is it fair to say that if, uh, additional firefighters might arrive by different vehicles? Correct.
[02:28:47] Speaker ?: Okay.
[02:28:48] Speaker 11: Nothing further in this witness. Thank you. No question.
[02:28:53] Speaker ?: Thank you, Judge.
[02:28:54] Speaker 1: And Mr. Kinzer made this witness be excused. Yes, Your Honor. Thank you. All right.
[02:29:01] Speaker ?: Thank you. Thank you. All rise.
[02:29:08] Speaker 1: Please everyone be seated. We are back on the record. Mr. Griffin is present in the courtroom with this council. The state of Ohio is present and we are in the presence of the jury. Mr. Baffer, are you ready for your next witness?
[02:29:32] Speaker 2: Yes, Judge. The state calls Randy Stonebreaker. Randy Stonebreaker.
[02:29:35] Speaker ?: Randy Stonebreaker?
[02:29:36] Speaker 1: Sir, you're going to follow Mr. Gortz around the table and watch your step. Anyone watch your step. Can you rate your right hand, please?
[02:29:53] Speaker 5: You spread the testimony about to give me the truth, the whole truth of it but the truth. Don't be God. Yes, sir.
[02:30:02] Speaker 1: Sir, do you object to being filmed? No.
[02:30:06] Speaker ?: All right.
[02:30:07] Speaker 1: Whenever you're ready, Mr. Baffer.
[02:30:09] Speaker 2: Thank you, Judge. Sir, can you tell us your name? Randy Stonebreaker. And where do you reside? Uh, now or then? Where do you reside now? You don't have to give us a full address. Okay, Pancoast Road. Okay. And in September of 2021, where did you reside?
[02:30:26] Speaker 12: A different house on Pancoast Road.
[02:30:28] Speaker 2: Okay.
[02:30:29] Speaker 12: Right across from the street. Across the street from what? Uh, the house that was on fire.
[02:30:34] Speaker 2: So you actually live right in that area? Yes.
[02:30:37] Speaker ?: Okay.
[02:30:38] Speaker 2: And you also work at Stonebreakers? Yes. What is Stonebreakers?
[02:30:42] Speaker 12: Uh, towing and a truck garage. Okay.
[02:30:45] Speaker 2: And where is your building located or your hub located?
[02:30:50] Speaker 12: Uh, on Pancoast Road.
[02:30:53] Speaker 2: Roughly how far is that from, uh, the house we're talking about today that caught fire? I'd say two or three hundred yards. Okay. So I'm going to take you back to, uh, that date we talked about, September 21, 2021. Do you recall that date?
[02:31:09] Speaker 12: Yes.
[02:31:10] Speaker 2: Okay. Um, tell us, uh, what occurred as far as your morning and what happened?
[02:31:16] Speaker 12: Uh, just a typical morning. I was, me and my daughter walked down from the house to the shop to get it open. And we didn't see anything out of the ordinary. And then when we were at the shop, the workers started coming to work. And one of them told us he thought our neighbor's house was on fire.
[02:31:36] Speaker 2: What time did you walk to work that day?
[02:31:39] Speaker 12: I would say somewhere that time between 6:30 and quarter till seven.
[02:31:44] Speaker 2: And was it still dark? Yes. And you didn't notice anything, uh, odd at that point? No.
[02:31:52] Speaker ?: Okay.
[02:31:53] Speaker 2: Do you recall what time it was roughly when your, your co-workers came in and started reporting things?
[02:31:59] Speaker 12: I would say probably five till seven. Okay.
[02:32:02] Speaker 2: What did you do, uh, after you heard this from a co-worker?
[02:32:06] Speaker 12: Uh, we jumped in his pickup and me and him drove up there to see if we can get them woke up or get them out of the house.
[02:32:15] Speaker 2: When you left the shop to go to the house, did you notice anything at that point?
[02:32:21] Speaker 12: Smoke coming out of the eaves of the roof. Okay.
[02:32:26] Speaker 2: And did you know at that point whether anyone was home? I thought there was.
[02:32:31] Speaker 12: I thought that time of day they were probably still asleep.
[02:32:34] Speaker 2: Uh, drive to the house, you and a co-worker, what do you do?
[02:32:39] Speaker 12: Uh, he laid on the horn a lot. And I went up, started beating on the doors and windows, hollering for him. Maybe I could hear him. And we heard a 911 call earlier.
[02:32:49] Speaker 2: Was that you on the line? Yes. Okay. And I think we heard some honking. Was that your co-worker? Yes. And he, why was he honking? Just to try to wake them up.
[02:32:59] Speaker 12: Okay.
[02:33:00] Speaker 2: Um, did you attempt to get into the home? Yes.
[02:33:04] Speaker 12: I tried the front door first. It was locked. And we, I decided to bust one of the windows. I thought maybe if I could hear him, maybe I could know what direction they were in.
[02:33:17] Speaker ?: Okay.
[02:33:18] Speaker 12: Could you see inside the home? Uh, after I busted, not knowing I busted that window. And I, I think it was a, I don't even know what kind of room it was. I, I didn't see much. Um, a lot of smoke. But I think it was a small room I busted it into.
[02:33:33] Speaker 2: Uh, if you're looking at the house, uh, the window you busted, would it have been on the left side? Yes. Left side of the front door. Okay. So you bust that window, try to make contact. Any luck? No. Were you and your co-worker the first person on, seen at the house that morning? Yes. Okay. After you tried the window in the front, what do you do?
[02:33:57] Speaker 12: Uh, we ran around back and tried the back door and it was unlocked.
[02:34:03] Speaker 2: You say the back door, is that, you go inside the gate and there's a deck and then a door? Uh, I believe so. I, I don't remember now. I just.
[02:34:14] Speaker 12: Do you remember what kind of door it was? No, I don't remember now.
[02:34:18] Speaker 2: Okay. But it was unlocked? Yes. What happened when you opened the door?
[02:34:22] Speaker 12: Uh, I just seen a bunch of smoke. I, I went in a little bit and the smoke was overwhelming. So I went out to catch my breath and then I kind of crawled in hollering for him. Still screaming for him, see if I could hear somebody.
[02:34:35] Speaker 2: Any response? No.
[02:34:37] Speaker 12: How far in did you get? I, not very far. Two or three feet probably.
[02:34:44] Speaker 2: And you're not wearing any kind of protective gear or anything like that, right? No.
[02:34:48] Speaker ?: No.
[02:34:49] Speaker 2: Couldn't make out anything inside? No. All I seen was smoke. Uh, did you make any other attempts to get in the house?
[02:34:58] Speaker 12: When I came back out that time, that's when another neighbor came over and told me he was pretty sure they were out of town. And I said, "Are you sure?" And he said, "Yes." So I, we went back down to the shop. Not what, at that time the fire department was showing up.
[02:35:14] Speaker 2: So you then leave and fire, firefighters are on their way? Yes. Okay. Who was the, uh, co-worker that you went into the house with? Uh, Kevin Aragone. And were there any other co-workers, uh, from Stone Breakers present?
[02:35:30] Speaker 12: Yes, John Phillips. Um, he was in the office with me and he, I believe when we jumped in the pickup, he said he was going to run up and get his fireman's radio.
[02:35:41] Speaker 2: So you said after you talked to the neighbor, you went back to the shop? Yes. Firefighters were on the scene at that point? They were rolling in. Yeah. Did you have any other involvement with the scene at that time? No. Did you speak with police officers?
[02:36:01] Speaker 12: Uh, I believe three or four hours later I had to come up and make a statement.
[02:36:06] Speaker 2: Any other involvement whatsoever? No. No. No other questions, Judge? No questions.
[02:36:12] Speaker 3: Thank you, Judge.
[02:36:13] Speaker ?: All right.
[02:36:14] Speaker 1: Mr. Baffner, may this witness be excused. Yes, sir. Thank you, sir. Mr. Baffner, you may call your next witness.
[02:36:30] Speaker 2: John Phillips.
[02:36:32] Speaker 1: John Phillips. Sir, you're going to follow Mr. Quartz around on the table. Watch the step.
[02:36:48] Speaker ?: Stand on the step.
[02:36:51] Speaker 5: Can you stand on the step? Can you stand on the step? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:36:54] Speaker ?: Can you stand on the step?
[02:36:55] Speaker 5: Can you stand on the step? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:37:00] Speaker 1: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:37:04] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:37:07] Speaker 1: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:37:09] Speaker 2: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:37:14] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the left hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:37:19] Speaker 2: Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:37:20] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:37:23] Speaker 2: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:37:25] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:37:30] Speaker 2: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:37:56] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:38:09] Speaker ?: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:38:13] Speaker 2: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:38:23] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:38:32] Speaker 2: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:38:34] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:38:46] Speaker 2: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:39:00] Speaker ?: Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:39:01] Speaker 2: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:39:06] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:39:15] Speaker 2: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:39:19] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:39:37] Speaker 2: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:39:40] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:39:41] Speaker 2: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:39:45] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:39:48] Speaker ?: Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:39:49] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:40:11] Speaker ?: Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:40:12] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:40:13] Speaker 2: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:40:15] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:40:38] Speaker 2: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:40:53] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:40:57] Speaker ?: Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:40:58] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:41:03] Speaker ?: Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:41:04] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:41:06] Speaker ?: Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:41:06] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:41:08] Speaker ?: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:41:10] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:41:37] Speaker ?: Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:41:38] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:41:45] Speaker ?: Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:41:46] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:41:47] Speaker 2: Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:41:48] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:42:01] Speaker ?: Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:42:02] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:42:28] Speaker ?: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:42:31] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:42:43] Speaker ?: Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:42:44] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:42:50] Speaker 2: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:42:52] Speaker ?: Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:42:53] Speaker 2: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:42:55] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:42:56] Speaker ?: Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:42:57] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:43:15] Speaker ?: Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:43:15] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:43:21] Speaker ?: Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:43:22] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:43:26] Speaker 2: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:43:35] Speaker ?: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:43:37] Speaker 2: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:43:42] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:44:01] Speaker ?: Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:44:02] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:44:16] Speaker ?: Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:44:17] Speaker 2: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:44:27] Speaker ?: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:44:31] Speaker 2: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:44:35] Speaker ?: Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:44:36] Speaker 2: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:44:42] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:44:44] Speaker ?: Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:44:45] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:44:59] Speaker ?: Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:45:00] Speaker 2: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:45:05] Speaker ?: Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:45:06] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:45:14] Speaker 2: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:45:16] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:45:22] Speaker ?: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:45:25] Speaker 2: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:45:27] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:45:28] Speaker ?: Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:45:29] Speaker 2: Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:45:30] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:45:42] Speaker ?: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:45:45] Speaker 2: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:45:55] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:46:05] Speaker 2: Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:46:06] Speaker ?: Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:46:07] Speaker 2: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:46:12] Speaker ?: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:46:14] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:46:21] Speaker ?: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:46:28] Speaker 2: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:46:39] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:46:45] Speaker ?: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:46:47] Speaker 2: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:46:49] Speaker ?: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:46:51] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:46:53] Speaker ?: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:46:55] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:47:02] Speaker 2: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:47:04] Speaker ?: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:47:06] Speaker 2: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:47:10] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:47:15] Speaker ?: Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:47:16] Speaker 2: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:47:23] Speaker ?: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:47:25] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:47:28] Speaker ?: Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:47:29] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:47:43] Speaker ?: Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:47:44] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:47:48] Speaker 2: Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:47:49] Speaker 13: Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:47:50] Speaker ?: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:48:03] Speaker 2: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:48:18] Speaker ?: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:48:20] Speaker 3: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:48:24] Speaker 1: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:48:26] Speaker 3: Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:48:27] Speaker 1: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:48:29] Speaker ?: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:48:56] Speaker 11: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:48:59] Speaker ?: Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:49:00] Speaker 11: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:49:02] Speaker ?: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:49:21] Speaker 5: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you stand on the right hand, please?
[02:49:27] Speaker 1: Can you stand on the right hand, please? Can you object to make the bill? No, sure.
[02:49:30] Speaker 11: All right.
[02:49:31] Speaker 1: Mr. Pinsley, you may proceed when you're ready. Thank you, Your Honor.
[02:49:35] Speaker 11: Sir, please state your name for the record. Chad Nixon. And spell your last name?
[02:49:40] Speaker 14: N-I-X-O-N. What do you do, sir? I'm a canine handler, police officer for Martins Ferry Police Department. I'm sorry, did you say Martins Ferry? Martins Ferry Police Department, yes, sir. Where's Martins Ferry located? Just north of Valera down on the riverfront. And how long have you been with Martins Ferry? Just hit about, just hit over a year in August. And prior to that, where did you work? Belmont County Sheriff's Office.
[02:50:08] Speaker 11: How long were you with Belmont County Sheriff's Office?
[02:50:11] Speaker 14: Just over two and a half years, I believe, total. Okay.
[02:50:15] Speaker 11: What did you do for Belmont County Sheriff's Office?
[02:50:18] Speaker 14: I was a regular patrol deputy, and I was a supervisor for a little while. Corporal and then SWAT operator for SWAT team.
[02:50:30] Speaker 11: And were you working for Belmont County Sheriff's Office in 2021?
[02:50:35] Speaker 14: Yes, sir.
[02:50:36] Speaker 11: Were you a road deputy at that time? Yes, sir.
[02:50:38] Speaker 14: Were you also a supervisor or just a road deputy? No, I was just a road deputy at that time.
[02:50:42] Speaker 11: Do you recall responding to the scene of a fire on Trails End Road in September of 2021? Yes, sir.
[02:50:48] Speaker 14: Okay.
[02:50:49] Speaker 11: Where were you at when you first get alerted to this?
[02:50:51] Speaker 14: Well, we were in the office. We had just started our shift, started at 6 o'clock. We were in doing morning briefing and going over what had happened the night before. And the call come in and took off from there.
[02:51:03] Speaker 11: What was the call? Do you remember?
[02:51:05] Speaker 14: It came in as just a possible structure fire at the address, and I can't remember what the address was. Okay. If I told you Trails End Drive?
[02:51:12] Speaker 11: I do remember that. Yes, sir.
[02:51:14] Speaker 14: Okay.
[02:51:15] Speaker 11: Do you recall what time of day this would have been?
[02:51:19] Speaker ?: Right.
[02:51:20] Speaker 14: Probably just a few minutes before 7:00. Like I said, we had started at 6:00. We were probably in there for a half hour, 45 minutes before the call come in, so.
[02:51:30] Speaker ?: Okay.
[02:51:31] Speaker 14: And what do you do then? I just took off from the sheriff's office, got in my cruiser, and headed out towards Route 40, out towards the address that they gave us.
[02:51:46] Speaker 11: Was anybody else in the cruiser with you?
[02:51:48] Speaker 14: No, I was in the cruiser by myself. How long is that drive? Running hot. Five minutes, maybe. What does running hot mean? Lights, sirens, running emergency.
[02:52:00] Speaker 11: Do you recall, was it light or dark out at this time?
[02:52:04] Speaker 14: It was starting to get light. I mean, it wasn't dark, but it was daylight. Okay.
[02:52:10] Speaker 11: And what do you find, what do you first observe when you arrive on scene? Not much.
[02:52:15] Speaker 14: I pulled up, and as I pulled up out front, I could see some smoke. I couldn't see any open flames. I couldn't see anything coming out. I don't remember who it was. Somebody had come around from the back of the house and stated that they needed blankets for a burn victim. I ended up going up to the back of the house, and by the time I got up there, I witnessed, at that point, Angela was on the right side of the porch and they were pulling Mr. Strusson out.
[02:52:42] Speaker 11: Okay, so let's deal with that first part. Angela Strusson, her remains or her dead body was there?
[02:52:47] Speaker 14: Correct.
[02:52:48] Speaker 11: Where was it located?
[02:52:49] Speaker 14: The right side of the deck, just to the right of the back door.
[02:52:52] Speaker 11: Do you recall, like, was it face up, face down?
[02:52:55] Speaker 14: I believe it was, she was face up.
[02:52:59] Speaker 11: Okay. Could you describe the condition of her body at that point?
[02:53:03] Speaker 14: She was obviously deceased, but she had some burn marks and there was blood.
[02:53:09] Speaker 11: Outside of the burn injuries you're describing, did you observe any evidence of trauma?
[02:53:13] Speaker 14: I didn't. I did not investigate. No, sir.
[02:53:16] Speaker 11: Okay. You mentioned that they were removing Tom.
[02:53:19] Speaker 14: Yes.
[02:53:20] Speaker 11: Who was they?
[02:53:22] Speaker 14: I believe it was a firefighter. I don't know. I mean, it was kind of chaotic at that point. And I was making sure to keep the scene secure. I do not, I'm not a fireman, so I don't.
[02:53:33] Speaker 11: When you first arrived on scene, do you remember, was there anybody in the front of the house? I don't remember. And when you come to the back of the house, you described Angela's body being present. Yes. Someone else was there. You don't know who.
[02:53:46] Speaker 14: Do you remember how many people? A couple. I mean, there wasn't, it wasn't just like one person. I believe there was maybe a couple from what I can, and at that point, like I said, they were pulling, Tom was coming through the threshold of the door, saw the blood. I made my call to my supervisor, and at that point I just held the scene.
[02:54:02] Speaker 11: Okay. So Tom's body was removed while you were present?
[02:54:07] Speaker 14: Yes, sir.
[02:54:08] Speaker 11: Do you remember anything about his condition?
[02:54:10] Speaker 14: There was a good bit of blood. He was burnt and clearly deceased.
[02:54:15] Speaker ?: Okay.
[02:54:16] Speaker 11: When you say clearly deceased, what makes you think that?
[02:54:19] Speaker 14: He wasn't breathing.
[02:54:20] Speaker 11: Same question for Angela. Correct.
[02:54:23] Speaker 14: Okay.
[02:54:32] Speaker 11: You mentioned, well, let me ask you this. At this point, were there fire department personnel?
[02:54:37] Speaker 14: Yeah, they were starting to come in.
[02:54:39] Speaker 11: When you say starting to come in, what did you observe about that?
[02:54:41] Speaker 14: Trucks starting to come in up, trails in. Do you have any idea how many fire trucks? I don't. I did not pay attention to that. Okay.
[02:54:48] Speaker 11: And what did you do at this point after you observed Tom's body being removed?
[02:54:52] Speaker 14: I called for my supervisor, passed on what we had, and just needed to have him respond to the scene. Who would that be? Jordan Blumling. Sergeant Blumling at the time. Yeah. What was his job title at that time? Sergeant Blumling. Road Sergeant. My Sergeant. What does a road sergeant do? He's the road supervisor for the road crew.
[02:55:10] Speaker 11: Is it fair to say he's your direct report? Correct. He's next up in the chain of command. Okay. Do you recall that he arrived on scene sometime thereafter?
[02:55:18] Speaker 14: Pretty quickly. I can't remember how long it was, but it wasn't long.
[02:55:22] Speaker 11: After the bodies are removed, do you do anything involving the house? Like, do you go in the house?
[02:55:28] Speaker 14: Not until way later in the evening after BCI had shown up. Okay. And did you observe the firefighters attempt to entry in the house? I mean, at this point they had a, you mean, I'm sorry, can you clarify? Entry. Firefighters, after removing Tom.
[02:55:43] Speaker 1: Hold on, guys. You asked the question, you answered, you guys can't see.
[02:55:47] Speaker 14: Okay, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Your Honor. That's okay. What was your response? When you say entry, they had already made entry into the house. I mean.
[02:55:56] Speaker 11: Subsequent to removing Tom's body, did you observe anybody go back in the house?
[02:56:00] Speaker 14: I observed the firefighters attempting to take care of the, the issue at hand, the fire of the residents.
[02:56:07] Speaker 11: And what does that mean?
[02:56:09] Speaker 14: Hoses being drug out. I know they were making breach points on, I believe the roof to try to get, I don't understand all of that, but they were doing their job. I was paying attention to what I had.
[02:56:22] Speaker 11: What were you paying attention to at that point?
[02:56:24] Speaker 14: Just keeping the scene secure, making sure there wasn't anybody coming up that wasn't supposed to be there. Nobody going into the residence. It wasn't supposed to be there and giving the firemen room to do their jobs. Where are you located when you're doing that?
[02:56:35] Speaker 11: Just in front of the house on Trails End. How long were you doing that scene security, if you have any idea?
[02:56:50] Speaker 14: I, I couldn't even tell you. It was hours. I mean, I was on scene for most of the day.
[02:56:56] Speaker 11: Okay.
[02:56:57] Speaker 14: Into the evening.
[02:56:58] Speaker 11: Okay. Do you have any idea when you left the scene? I don't, I don't remember that.
[02:57:02] Speaker 14: No.
[02:57:03] Speaker 11: Okay. Other than scene security, did you later do anything else on scene?
[02:57:07] Speaker 14: Uh, on scene? No. I mean, I canvassed a little bit and looked for any cameras that may be on any residences around. Um, I helped take care of running or gathering plates of cars that had driven by. Keep an idea of that. And then at one point I was doing the log for who was coming in and out of the scene. I didn't do that for very long.
[02:57:32] Speaker 11: Okay. What is the log you're describing?
[02:57:35] Speaker 14: Anybody that shows up, take their name, they got to sign in before they enter the scene itself. And then they also sign out before they leave.
[02:57:43] Speaker 11: Do you have any idea what time you took over the scene log?
[02:57:46] Speaker 14: I don't. And like I said, it was very quick. I believe who was doing it before needed a break. And I took over for a second. And I was, other than that, I was doing anything else that I was asked for to do.
[02:57:59] Speaker 11: May I approach the witness, Your Honor? Yes. Do you have an exhibit? I'm going to show them States Exhibit 134. No objection, Your Honor.
[02:58:09] Speaker 1: All right. Yes, you may approach it.
[02:58:15] Speaker 11: I'll show you what's been marked as States Exhibit 134. Do you recognize that? Yeah.
[02:58:20] Speaker ?: I do.
[02:58:21] Speaker 14: This is our crime scene log.
[02:58:23] Speaker 11: Okay. And you were part of keeping that log. Correct. Do you remember who else was involved? Yeah.
[02:58:29] Speaker 14: He had a deputy T.J. Scott. Okay.
[02:58:32] Speaker 11: Do it before you or after you?
[02:58:33] Speaker 14: He had taken over before he was given that task at some point early when everybody started showing up. And they, again, I didn't realize what was going on with the detectives and everything when they showed up. we were told. He took over prior to, I believe. And then I just kind of stepped in a little bit here and there. Okay.
[02:58:53] Speaker 11: And when you talk about being security based, I think you described your job is basically make sure nobody gets into the scene other than fire department personnel. Correct.
[02:59:02] Speaker 14: First responders are detectives.
[02:59:03] Speaker ?: And that states exhibit 134. That's a true and accurate copy of the log.
[02:59:03] Speaker 14: We'll stipulate it is, your honor. Thank you. And that states exhibit 134.
[02:59:06] Speaker ?: That's a true and accurate copy of the log. We'll stipulate it is, your honor. Thank you. You mentioned canvassing. What is that?
[02:59:09] Speaker 11: Just kind of walking around the neighborhood checking houses that were around to see if there were any cameras. And that states exhibit 134. And that states exhibit 134. That's a true and accurate copy of the log.
[02:59:16] Speaker 14: We'll stipulate it is, your honor. Thank you.
[02:59:18] Speaker ?: Thank you. You mentioned canvassing. What is that?
[02:59:21] Speaker 14: Just kind of walking around the neighborhood checking houses that were around to see if there were any cameras that may have caught the fire or anything that could have happened and cars coming in and out. Did you locate any? I did not. I located one house that had cameras on it, but the cameras were not working, which is directly in front of the residents on Trail Zone.
[02:59:58] Speaker 11: And does canvassing involve talking to the residents?
[03:00:01] Speaker 14: Yeah, if I can make contact with them. Okay. What sort of questions are you asking those folks? Did you see anybody in the area? Is there anything out of the ordinary? And I didn't get any answers from anybody. I talked to one set of neighbors, two. The first one was to the right of the residents. They hadn't seen anything. And then I talked to the female of the house where I had found the cameras and she informed me that the cameras in the house were not working and her husband was at work. Okay. Other than that, I didn't have contact with anybody else in any residences.
[03:00:31] Speaker 11: So fair to say your canvas didn't yield any? No, sir. In the course of your canvas or your course of time on scene, did you locate anything that might be evidence?
[03:00:44] Speaker 14: Yeah. I did find a down on, I cannot remember what the road is. It's coming up on the trails and I apologize. But during my canvas area, I did end up finding what looked like a latex glove, which was next to a residence just in front of and to the right, I believe a little bit. I can't remember the exact location, but it was just a latex glove. Seemed to be in a weird spot and we learned to take everything into account. So I just stood there and I passed that on.
[03:01:15] Speaker 11: Okay. Your arm, may I approach? I'm going to show him State's Exhibit 61. Let's take you later. Yes. Do you recognize State's Exhibit 61? Yes, sir.
[03:01:33] Speaker 14: And what is that? This is the glove that I found, the surgical glove that was found, the latex glove, I guess, that was found on the side. How is it contained there? How is it contained in here? Yes. In an evidence bag and sealed with my name on it, actually. Okay.
[03:01:49] Speaker 11: Where did you go? Oh, thank you. So you mentioned that this glove was found on the ground? Yes, sir. Off the side of the road. And what road are we talking about?
[03:02:09] Speaker 14: I cannot remember what the name of the road is. What is that? I'm sorry. Coming up off of...
[03:02:15] Speaker 11: Does the name Pancoast mean anything to you? Do you recognize that? Possibly.
[03:02:19] Speaker 14: It's the one that runs parallel with Stonebreakers. Okay. So I believe that's the one that connects to Trail Zone.
[03:02:25] Speaker 11: Okay. So is that road adjacent to the house?
[03:02:29] Speaker 14: Yes. Okay. If you're standing at the house looking away from it, it would be to your right.
[03:02:34] Speaker 11: You mentioned it was a...what kind of glove?
[03:02:37] Speaker 14: It was a blue, like latex type medical glove.
[03:02:41] Speaker 11: Did you ever have seen gloves like that before?
[03:02:44] Speaker 14: Yeah, we use them all the time. Who's we? Law enforcement, medical personnel, doctors, hospitals.
[03:02:50] Speaker 11: Were there a lot of law enforcement and medical personnel out at the scene that day?
[03:02:54] Speaker 14: There was. There was. Yeah, there was. I mean...
[03:03:14] Speaker 8: No further questions, sir. Thank you. No questions. Thank you.
[03:03:18] Speaker 1: Mr. Kenzer, may this witness be excused. Yes, sir. Your honor. Thank you, officer. Thank you, sir.
[03:03:25] Speaker ?: Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir.
[03:03:36] Speaker 2: Doug Cruz.
[03:03:37] Speaker 5: All right.
[03:03:38] Speaker ?: Doug Cruz.
[03:03:39] Speaker 5: Thank you.
[03:04:10] Speaker 1: Sir, do you object to name Thelmke? No. All right. I've got a seat, sir. Mr. Filser, you may have a seat.
[03:04:19] Speaker 11: Thank you, Your Honor. Sir, please state your name for the record. Douglas Cruz.
[03:04:23] Speaker 15: And would you spell your last name? C-R-U-S-E. Everybody usually spells it wrong, so.
[03:04:30] Speaker 11: Where do you work, sir? Thelmont County Sheriff's Office. And how long have you worked at Thelmont County?
[03:04:35] Speaker 15: Just around 26 years.
[03:04:38] Speaker 11: And what are your current job duties?
[03:04:41] Speaker 15: I am a captain in charge of the patrol division of the sheriff's office. And what did you do prior to that? I was a detective lieutenant, second in charge of the criminal investigations unit.
[03:04:53] Speaker 11: How long did you do that job?
[03:04:56] Speaker 15: On and off 15 years or so. Okay.
[03:05:01] Speaker 11: And is that the job you were doing in 2021?
[03:05:03] Speaker 15: It is.
[03:05:05] Speaker ?: Okay.
[03:05:05] Speaker 11: Do you recall in your time as a detective, or lieutenant detective, were you recalled to a scene of a fire on trails and drive?
[03:05:13] Speaker 15: I do.
[03:05:13] Speaker 11: Okay. Did you actually go to that scene? I did. Do you have any idea what time you would have gone to that scene?
[03:05:19] Speaker 15: I do not know the exact time, but it was early morning. I could tell you that much. When you arrived, what did you find there? There were already a lot of officers on scene. There was two deceased people and a fire had taken place.
[03:05:40] Speaker 11: Do you know who those people were?
[03:05:42] Speaker 15: Yes. Tom and Angela Estrushen.
[03:05:45] Speaker ?: Okay.
[03:05:46] Speaker 11: And do you do anything at the scene?
[03:05:51] Speaker 15: Not really. Just kind of do what's asked of me. I didn't stay at the scene long. Rather than having everybody crowded in one place, I was advised by my supervisor to go to the office and start talking to family members and things of that nature. So I left.
[03:06:10] Speaker 11: And is that what you did? Did you wind up speaking to family members? Yes. Do you remember who you spoke to?
[03:06:14] Speaker 15: I don't remember everybody I spoke to, but I remember speaking with Lisa.
[03:06:20] Speaker 11: And who is Lisa?
[03:06:22] Speaker 15: Bailog would be the sister of Tom Estrushen. And I believe I spoke with her father as well.
[03:06:31] Speaker 11: And that would also be the father of Tom Estrushen?
[03:06:33] Speaker 15: Yes.
[03:06:37] Speaker 11: At some juncture, did you wind up speaking to Andrew Griffin? Yes. Do you remember how that came about?
[03:06:44] Speaker 15: I don't know the exact time, but obviously we put in a very long day that day. At some point in the evening, later evening, we had gone over to the Salsa Joes in Elm Grove to see about obtaining video surveillance footage. When we got there, Lisa actually went with us. We didn't have the passcode to the surveillance system. So Lisa was able to contact Andrew Griffin and get that code.
[03:07:17] Speaker 11: Okay. Did you actually speak to Mr. Griffin?
[03:07:19] Speaker 15: I believe that at some point he was on speakerphone and I talked to him, but I couldn't say that 100%.
[03:07:25] Speaker 11: Okay. Were you able to get that code? Yes. And you got it from him? Yes. And you were able to access that video? Yes. In the video we're talking about, this is...
[03:07:35] Speaker 15: This is bar surveillance video inside the bar area and the restaurant of Salsa Joes in Elm Grove.
[03:07:42] Speaker 11: Was anybody else present in person, either yourself or yourself and Lisa?
[03:07:46] Speaker 15: Yeah, Detective Jason Schwark was also there.
[03:08:12] Speaker 11: Did you do any follow-up investigation from that point?
[03:08:17] Speaker 15: Yes.
[03:08:17] Speaker 11: What did you do?
[03:08:20] Speaker 15: Just follow it up for the next couple of months as directed by my supervisor to talk to people who knew Tom and Angela, employees, things of that nature.
[03:08:33] Speaker 11: Do you have any idea how many different people you spoke to? No. Would it be less or more than 10?
[03:08:40] Speaker 15: I'd say right around 10, probably.
[03:08:42] Speaker ?: Okay.
[03:08:45] Speaker 11: No further questions, this is what you're sharing. No questions.
[03:08:47] Speaker 15: Thank you, Your Honor.
[03:08:49] Speaker 1: Mr. Kinsler, may this witness be excused. Yes, sir. Thank you.
[03:08:53] Speaker ?: Thank you.
[03:08:56] Speaker 4: Pro-Tron. Yes.
[03:09:16] Speaker ?: Thank you.
[03:09:26] Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, the state's reached a place where their next witnesses are going to take a significant period of time. And so I know it's early, but we're going to break here for the day. So when I told you Wednesday we may get done early some days, a little bit late some days, I didn't envision this early. But first day we're letting you out a little early. Tomorrow, you're going to be here at 845. You'll report straight to the jury room. You'll be greeted by Mr. Goritz. Have to remember the admonitions I've given you. You can't discuss this case and what you heard today with anyone, including yourselves. Don't post anything online. Do not do any independent research at all. And if anyone attempts to have a conversation with you about this case, you need to report that to me tomorrow morning. So with that said, I thank you all for being attentive here today. And you are released until 8.45 a.m. tomorrow morning. And did Mr. Goritz explain the parking situation to you all? Okay. Then I'll see you tomorrow morning by 8.45. Thank you.