Alex Murdaugh full testimony in double murder trial: Full Video

[00:00:00] Alec Murdoch: I'm Alec Murdoch, M-U-R-D-A-U-G-H. Good morning. [00:00:21] Speaker 2: Mr. Murdoch, on June 7th, 2021, did you take this gun or any gun like it and shoot your son, Paul, in the chest in the feed room at your property off Moselle Road? [00:00:37] Alec Murdoch: No, I did not. [00:00:38] Speaker 2: Mr. Murdoch, did you take this gun or any gun like it and blow your son's brains out on June 7th or any day or any time? [00:00:49] Alec Murdoch: No, I did not. [00:00:53] Speaker 2: Mr. Murdoch? Did you take a 300 blackout such as this and fire it into your wife Maggie's leg, torso, or any part of her body? No, I did not. Did you shoot a 300 blackout into her head causing her death? [00:01:18] Alec Murdoch: Mr. Griffin, I didn't shoot my wife or my son any time. Ever. [00:01:39] Speaker 2: Mr. Murdoch, is that you? On the kennel video at 844 p.m. on June 7th, the night Maggie and Paul were murdered? [00:01:48] Speaker 3: It is. [00:01:49] Speaker 2: Were you, in fact, at the kennels at 844 p.m. on the night Maggie and Paul were murdered? [00:01:54] Speaker 4: I was. [00:01:56] Speaker 2: Mr. Murdoch, did you lie to Sled Agent Owen and Deputy Laura Rutland on the night of June 7th and told them that you stayed at the house after dinner? [00:02:07] Alec Murdoch: I did lie to them. [00:02:09] Speaker 2: Mr. Murdoch, did you lie to Agent Owen and Agent Croft on the follow-up interview on June 10th that the last time you saw Maggie and Paul was at dinner? [00:02:19] Alec Murdoch: I did lie to them. [00:02:21] Speaker 2: And in the interview of August 11th, did you tell Agent Owen and Agent Croft, did you lie to them by telling them that you were not down at the kennels on that night? [00:02:36] Alec Murdoch: Yes. [00:02:40] Speaker 2: Alec, why did you lie to Agent Owen, Agent Croft, and Deputy Rutland about the last time you saw Maggie and Paul? [00:02:48] Alec Murdoch: As my addiction evolved over time, I would get in these situations or circumstances where I would get paranoid thinking. And it could be anything that triggered it. It might be a look somebody gave me. It might be a reaction somebody had to something I did. It might be a policeman following me in a car. That night, June 7th, after finding Mags and Paul, don't talk to anybody without Danny with you, all my partners were just repeatedly telling me that. I had a deputy sheriff taking gunshot tests from my hands. I'm sitting in a police car with David Owen asking me about my relationship with my wife and my son. And all those things coupled together, after finding them, coupled with my distrust for SLED, caused me to have paranoid thoughts. Normally, when these paranoid thoughts would hit me, I could take a deep breath real quick, and just think about it, reason my way through it, and just get past it really quickly. On June the 7th, I wasn't thinking clearly. I don't think I was capable of reason. And I lied about being down there. And I'm so sorry that I did. I'm sorry to my son, Buster. I'm sorry to Grandma and Papa T. I'm sorry to both of our families. Most of all, I'm sorry to Mags. [00:05:20] Speaker 3: And Papa T. I would never intentionally do anything to hurt either one of them. [00:05:39] Alec Murdoch: Ever. Ever. Ever. [00:05:47] Speaker 2: Did you continue lying after that night? Did you not? [00:05:56] Alec Murdoch: Well, once I lied, I continued to lie. Yes, sir. [00:05:58] Speaker 2: Why? [00:06:04] Alec Murdoch: You know, oh, what a tangled web we weave. But once I told the lie, I mean, I told my family, I had to keep lying. [00:06:16] Speaker 2: Alex, tell the jury what happened on the evening of June 7th, starting when you met with Paul. [00:06:38] Alec Murdoch: I had been at work that day, a fairly normal day. You mean start in the morning? [00:06:50] Speaker 2: Sure, start in the morning. [00:06:56] Alec Murdoch: Just a regular morning. So when Maggie was leaving to go out of town, she was going to a doctor's appointment and she had some stuff to do at Edista, where she was having some work done on our house at Edista. But Maggie was there that morning, she went to leave, and she told me she was doing these things. I always, always asked Maggie to come back home and stay with me. But anyway, Maggie had left. She did her thing. I went to work, did work. I learned from Pawpaw that... [00:07:43] Speaker 2: Who's Pawpaw? [00:07:45] Alec Murdoch: That's Paul, my son, Pawpaw. My son, Paul, murdered. [00:07:49] Speaker 2: And your name for him was Pawpaw? [00:07:53] Alec Murdoch: Yeah, I mean, we called him Pawpaw. [00:07:55] Speaker 2: Okay, go ahead. I'm sorry. [00:07:56] Alec Murdoch: And, I mean, Buster, Maggie, I called him Pawpaw or Paul Terry. Max called him Pawpaw, Bus called him Pawpaw. A lot of people called him Pawpaw. But anyway, I learned about the... I had known that CB, the guy that worked for us, had sprayed the sunflowers. I knew about that, but I'd been out of town. I didn't know they were dead. Paul let me know they had died. So we had to replant the dove field. That's a dove field, which... The dove field's just a big social part of having property. People would come, and it's just a social, big part of it. So the dove field was a big deal. So when the sunflowers got killed, Paul was... We knew they were dead. Paul was coming home. And I learned that early Monday morning. [00:08:58] Speaker 2: And we'll catch back up, but at some point in time, did you meet up with Paul? [00:09:04] Alec Murdoch: Yeah. After work, I met Pawpaw at the property. [00:09:08] Speaker 2: And we're going back to Phil and talk about more of the day, but I just want to focus in on that evening right now. [00:09:14] Alec Murdoch: Okay. [00:09:15] Speaker 2: When Paul gets to the property, what do y'all do? [00:09:18] Alec Murdoch: First thing we do is we go to the dove field, and we look at the dove field, and... [00:09:23] Speaker 2: How did you get to the dove field? [00:09:26] Alec Murdoch: He had come in my brother's truck. We got in my son Buster's black pickup truck. We called it Buster's truck, or the black pickup truck. You've heard it called, too. But I call it Buster's truck. [00:09:42] Speaker 2: Okay. So you're in Buster's truck, and you go to the dove field. Tell the jury what else. [00:09:47] Alec Murdoch: Well, that's the first thing we do. We go to the dove field, and we look, and it was clearly... You could tell they were... I mean, you could tell they'd been sprayed, and you could tell they were dead. I mean, they might have still had a tiny bit of light, but they were dead. So we knew that. So we knew we had to replant the whole field. So that didn't take but a second. But after that, Pawpaw... We just rode the property. We spent time together. We rode around, and we spent time together on the property. [00:10:34] Speaker 2: Did you go to the duck pond? [00:10:36] Alec Murdoch: Oh, yeah. We went to several food plots. We went to Single Oak Stand, we called it, which is across the road. I know we went to the bridge stand. We went to the duck pond, where we stayed for a minute. I can remember the duck pond specifically, because I had helped Pawpaw plant the dove field, and the corn in the dove field. So sunflower was corn, sunflower was corn, and I had helped him plant the corn in the dove field. Pawpaw had planted the duck pond by himself, and he's making a really big deal to me about how much better the corn was doing in the duck pond than it was in the dove field. We stayed there for a little while, and we stayed there for a little while, and we were at the cabin for a little while, and we rode around the cabin looking at it. [00:11:43] Speaker 2: The cabin is what? [00:11:45] Alec Murdoch: That's – it's just a little small – it's truly a cabin. It's a four-room structure. It's got a little living area, a little kitchen, and it's got two little bedrooms and one little bathroom. And that's what you've heard talk about, where the kids stayed some summers. [00:12:04] Speaker 2: And is that what the jury's seen, some overhead pictures, it's right there on Moselle Road? [00:12:10] Alec Murdoch: Yeah, it's right up on Moselle Road, and it's very close to the driveway that goes to the shop and the kennels. [00:12:19] Speaker 2: Did you spend any time at the shop, do you think? [00:12:22] Alec Murdoch: Oh, yes. I mean, the shop was – I mean, that was sort of the hub. That was the main place. If you weren't at the house, you might be out going to this field or this food plot or this duck pond or this part of the river, but the shop is – where the kennels were located, you know, that was – you were always there. Something was always going on there. You're always doing something there. That's where all the tools were. That's where all the equipment was kept. I mean, that was – that was the main hub. Right. And so we were there that day. I mean, it was a point in time where we unloaded a bulldozer that had been on a different part of the property. It was on a trailer. We unloaded it and sprayed it down real quick. That was just one of the many things we did that day. [00:13:14] Speaker 2: One of the things the jury's seen, Alec, is a Snapchat video of you and doing something with a tree. Do you remember that? [00:13:25] Alec Murdoch: Oh, yeah. [00:13:25] Speaker 2: So what was happening there? [00:13:28] Alec Murdoch: That's just part of when we were riding. That particular location where that was is at a food plot that we called sawtooth oaks. And it was named that because there were some sawtooth oaks that were planted there that you can't see in the picture. But what that tree is, at all these food plots, there's an area where it's not as big as a field, but it's like a field where you plant vegetation for wildlife. Like, it might be cowpeas or soybeans, but you plant, and then there's a feeder to attract deer. Then we planted these little fruit trees on these stands. And what you see me doing is fooling with a fruit tree that I'd been tending to. It had fallen over. I had straps on it. I had strings on it that were holding it up. One of the strings popped. I undid the other string, and it was falling over, and Pawpaw was laughing at me, trying to get it back up right. And that was just a fruit tree that I'd been dealing with for, really, for years. And it wouldn't stand up straight. [00:14:35] Speaker 2: And were you and Paul having a good time at that point? [00:14:43] Alec Murdoch: You could not be around Pawpaw. [00:14:52] Speaker 5: You could not be around him and not have a good time. [00:14:56] Speaker 2: Were you close to Paul? [00:15:02] Speaker 5: He couldn't be any closer than Pawpaw and I, and Buster and I, wearing off. [00:15:15] Speaker 3: He's just wonderful. Wonderful. [00:15:21] Speaker 2: And is one of the things you enjoyed doing together with just riding the property? [00:15:24] Speaker 3: I loved doing anything with Pawpaw. It was an absolute delight. [00:15:30] Alec Murdoch: But, yeah, one of the things, I mean, Paul's passion. I mean, Paul was passionate about a lot of things, but that property was really a passion of his. I mean, he loved to do, he loved to work it. He loved to work with fields. He loved to work with food plots. He loved to hunt. I mean, he'd work on the roads. I mean, he would work on all of it. I mean, he would work on the structure. I mean, he worked on the whole property. It was his passion. [00:16:06] Speaker 2: So, on the evening of the Sunday, I mean, the jury's been inundated with data from various different sources, but just ballpark, can you, knowing what we know now after reviewing everything, but roughly, when do you remember Paul getting there and you getting there and starting to ride the property? [00:16:32] Alec Murdoch: Now that I've had the benefit of seeing all of these records, Pawpaw got home, I believe, a little bit before 7 o'clock. And I got home a little bit before him. I think the details have been that I got home around 6.42 or 6.45 or something like that, and Paul got there very quickly thereafter, by 7 o'clock. [00:17:00] Speaker 2: So, you rode the property for a while. Do you remember when Maggie arrived? [00:17:06] Alec Murdoch: Yeah, it was later than that. It was 8 or after 8. I think it was after 8 and looking at the records, a little bit after 8. [00:17:16] Speaker 2: And do you remember her arriving or where you were when she arrived? [00:17:21] Alec Murdoch: I believe that I was at the shop when she came through, which would not be unusual for her, having been away. If Blanca had gotten the mail or somebody had gotten the mail, maybe not, but if somebody had not gotten the mail, it would be perfectly normal for her to pull through there. And I believe she did pull through there that day. And Paul and I were at the shop, I believe. [00:17:44] Speaker 2: And then what did you do after Maggie arrived? [00:17:48] Alec Murdoch: Maggie went to the house, and I know that. But shortly after, however I learned that Maggie got home, I went to the house when Maggie got home. And I left Paul at the shop. [00:18:01] Speaker 2: So, and what did you do when you got to the house? [00:18:05] Alec Murdoch: I saw Mags, talked to Mags, and I took a shower. [00:18:10] Speaker 2: The clothes that we saw in that Snapchat video was, was that the clothes you had at work that day? [00:18:18] Alec Murdoch: Yes, those are the clothes I had on at work that day. [00:18:22] Speaker 2: And the jury's seen you in those clothes, and what's, on June 7th, how tall were you and how much did you weigh? [00:18:33] Alec Murdoch: On June 7th, well, I'm six, a little, I'm a hair over 6'4", right at 6'4". On June the 7th, I was about 265 pounds, 264, 265. [00:18:47] Speaker 2: And this was in June, June 7th? [00:18:51] Alec Murdoch: Yes, sir. [00:18:51] Speaker 2: When you were outside, riding around, and doing, did you get hot and sweaty? [00:18:57] Alec Murdoch: Absolutely. I mean, Paul and I had done some things. We, we, we, we unloaded the bulldozer, cleaned the bulldozer, we fooled around. Yeah, I mean, I sweated. I was, you know, I was heavy. And, uh, taking prescription pills also makes you sweat worse. Or at least, or at least taking oxycodone makes you sweat more than you normally do. [00:19:22] Speaker 2: So was it unusual for you to take a shower when you got back to the house? [00:19:25] Alec Murdoch: Not at all. [00:19:28] Speaker 2: And that, when you, after you took a shower, what did you change into? [00:19:33] Alec Murdoch: I changed into the clothes that you've seen in this trial. Shorts and the shirt. [00:19:44] Speaker 2: Okay. When you got out of the shower, um, and changed clothes, what'd you do next? [00:19:55] Alec Murdoch: I went back out where Mags and Pawpaw were, and, uh, for dinner. And what were they doing? What was going on? Mags had, as you've heard, Blanca had prepared dinner, but, uh, it had been cooked earlier. Mags had fixed, I know Mags had fixed mine and her plate, because I didn't fix a plate. She may have fixed Pawpaw. Pawpaw was eating, and Pawpaw was almost done eating by the time I got back out. Which, also, wasn't unusual. I mean, Pawpaw was always on the go. I mean, he, he never sat still. And, you know, he'd sit down to eat, but then he's going on to his next item. [00:20:38] Speaker 2: And, uh. [00:20:39] Alec Murdoch: So then Mags and I ate. [00:20:41] Speaker 2: And, do you already eat at the table? [00:20:43] Alec Murdoch: Do you eat at the den? What, what's your normal habit? Oh, we would do both. But, I mean, when we ate at the table, it was really sort of more formal, or, or, or not formal, but just more of an organized thing. Our normal, what we would normally do on a regular evening is we would eat in the den in front of the TV. And that's where we ate that day. I, I ate on the couch. The table. Maggie had a little, um, uh, a TV tray that she kept over there. And, and, and Pawpaw would usually sit in a recliner and, and eat off of the ottoman. [00:21:19] Speaker 2: And was the TV on? [00:21:21] Alec Murdoch: Yes. [00:21:22] Speaker 2: Was that normal for the TV to be on? [00:21:25] Alec Murdoch: Yes. TV, if we were in the house, TV was on. [00:21:31] Speaker 2: So, what, what happened next, Alan? [00:21:33] Alec Murdoch: Uh, Pawpaw moved on doing whatever he was doing. I, I don't know if he was in the gun room doing something, or he was in his room doing something. He was outside doing something. I, I actually thought he'd gone to the shed, but in looking at, to the shop, but in looking at the, the, the, the benefit of having these records, um, that we have, I know he was still at the house, or somewhere around the house, doing something. But he wasn't in there with Maggie and I. Um, but, uh, Maggie wanted to go to the kennels. And, uh, I had eaten dinner. I laid back on the couch where I was sitting. Maggie wanted to go to the kennels. And she asked me to go. And, and I didn't, I didn't go at that time. I didn't want to go. [00:22:21] Speaker 2: Why, why didn't you want to go? [00:22:22] Alec Murdoch: It was hot. Um, I just had a shower. Uh, I knew I'd end up doing more work. Uh, sweating more. And, and, and the, the dogs is always a chaotic scene. And I just didn't want to go right then. [00:22:40] Speaker 2: Well, let me ask you. What, what had you done the, the previous days? Like Friday and Saturday and Sunday? [00:22:48] Alec Murdoch: Um, start with Friday? Yeah. Or go backwards? [00:22:53] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. Start, start with Friday. [00:22:55] Alec Murdoch: All right. [00:22:55] Speaker 2: Just, just, just briefly. [00:22:57] Alec Murdoch: So it's 7th, 6th, 5th, 4th. So June the 4th, uh, my dad was in the hospital in Savannah, Georgia at, at Memorial Hospital. And I went down to visit him Friday afternoon and I stayed with him in the hospital. I, I spent the night there, you know, he was real sick. I mean, he was having a hard time. [00:23:25] Speaker 2: Um, did you get much sleep Friday night? [00:23:28] Alec Murdoch: No, I mean, I had a, they, a, a real sweet nurse found me, at first there was just a hard chair in there like this, but a, a nurse found me a soft chair, sort of like a recliner. So, I mean, I, I'm, I'm sure I slept, but I didn't sleep, you know, I, I didn't get a night's sleep, no sir. [00:23:48] Speaker 2: And then Saturday and Sunday? [00:23:49] Alec Murdoch: Um, Saturday, uh, we had plans with, um, with, um, Buster and Brooklyn. Y'all heard about Brooklyn is Buster's wonderful little girlfriend and Mags and I had plans with them to meet them in Columbia to go to the, uh, South Carolina, uh, it was a regional baseball tournament and South Carolina was playing Virginia, I believe. So, when I got back from Savannah and, and met up with Mags, at some point we, we, we headed to Columbia. So, I mean, there wasn't a lot going on in between there. We headed up to Columbia and met bus in Brooklyn. [00:24:35] Speaker 2: And then, and you stayed, did you stay in Columbia Saturday night? We did. [00:24:39] Alec Murdoch: We went to the ball game and I remember it was an evening game. Um, we, we went pretty early and tailgated. Maggie had, Maggie had, Maggie had reconnected with a college friend, um, who coincidentally had married a college friend of mine. Um, um, and they had a son that played for Carolina, he was a first baseman, uh, and a really good little player. And, uh, we met them and tailgated with them and it, and it was a lot of fun. They had a lot of, the parents of the players that, um, were playing for Carolina and, uh, it was just, it was, it was, it was, it was a fun time. We, uh, we tailgated and then we went to, and it was a night game, so we went to the game and the game got over, um, you know, it was fairly late into the evening. We went to the evening and after that, Bus and Brooklyn and Mags and I, uh, I believe we went to the restaurant and the hotel where we were staying, but we went and had dinner and, and, and then Bus and Brooklyn went home and, of course, Maggie and I went to our room. [00:25:54] Speaker 2: And then get up the next day and was there another game? [00:25:57] Alec Murdoch: Another game the next day, um, that's right, and, uh. [00:26:01] Speaker 2: And then you, after that you head back to Moselle with Maggie? [00:26:06] Alec Murdoch: Yeah, we went to the game, um, that's right, Mags and I go back to, um, to Moselle. To Moselle. [00:26:17] Speaker 2: To Moselle. The jury's heard about, I think Ms. Rask, talking about you bringing Krispy Kreme donuts to your dad. [00:26:23] Alec Murdoch: Maggie loved her. She, she spoiled my dad and always, always taking him something. My dad loves sweets and, and she and I picked up donuts and took, uh, Krispy Kreme donuts, uh, to him. [00:26:40] Speaker 2: And then, um, y'all both spent the night together at Moselle on Sunday night. Did you both spend the night at Moselle on Sunday night? Yes. And then the 7th was a work day? That's right. [00:26:55] Alec Murdoch: It was a Monday, Monday, June the 7th. Hang on, hang on, hang on. I'll rephrase it. [00:27:00] Speaker 2: Oh, I'm sorry. Was Monday the 7th a work day for you? Yes. Okay, and, and I just wanted to give that background and some moving forward to, when you testified previously about Maggie asking you to go to the kennels, were you tired? [00:27:18] Alec Murdoch: Oh yes, I was tired. [00:27:20] Speaker 2: And you had just had a shower? [00:27:22] Alec Murdoch: Just had a shower. [00:27:23] Speaker 2: And, um, and you said that, well, did you go with Maggie to the kennels immediately? No. [00:27:34] Alec Murdoch: No, I did not. [00:27:35] Speaker 2: What'd you do? Well, did she leave? [00:27:37] Alec Murdoch: Yes, she did. She left and Paw Paw was gone. [00:27:41] Speaker 2: Do you know how she got to the kennel? [00:27:43] Alec Murdoch: At the time I didn't, but now, looking at these condensed records, um, and, and understanding the timeline, it's clear to me that she rode with Paw Paw. Okay. [00:27:53] Speaker 2: And, uh, and did you stay in the house? [00:27:58] Alec Murdoch: Yes. [00:27:59] Speaker 2: For how long? [00:28:00] Alec Murdoch: Not long. I laid back on the couch, put my feet up, and like, many times when Maggie asked me to do something that I didn't want to do, or didn't start out doing, I changed my mind and decided I'm gonna ride up there. And I did. [00:28:16] Speaker 2: And how, how did you get to the, to the kennels? [00:28:21] Alec Murdoch: I went on the golf cart. [00:28:22] Speaker 2: Um, was it, was the golf cart at the house, the main house? [00:28:28] Alec Murdoch: Yeah. It was, and it was there most of the time. [00:28:33] Speaker 2: And when you got down to the kennels, what was happening? [00:28:37] Alec Murdoch: Uh, it's just what I thought it was. Um, it, it was a little bit of chaos. I mean, it was clear to me that, uh, Max had just let the dogs out. Um, the two dogs that were out were really her pet dogs. One is Grady. You've heard about a black lab. That's Grady. That's Buster's dog. And the other is the yellow lab that you've heard about. That's Bubba. Um, Bubba was mine and Maggie's dog, but it was really mine, Maggie's, Buss, and Pawpaw's dog. It was a family dog. Um, but, Bubba's the dog I hunted. Um, I mean, Maggie loved Bubba. She loved Grady too, but, I mean, she had a special place for Bubba. But anyway, when the dogs first were let out, the first thing they would do is they would run. If you look at the overhead, um, picture that you've seen, there were planted pines right behind the kennels. So you've got the kennels and the chicken coop sort of form an L shape. And in that L was some planted pines. First thing the dogs would do is go out in that, um, kennel and, you know, Bubba, and Grady, I think, learned this from Bubba, but Grady would do it too. But Bubba had to mark every tree. I mean, he, he, he would go and, he'd do a little number on this tree, and that tree, you know, dogs do. And it's marking his territory. Um, and, and so that was the first thing those dogs did when they came out. When I got there, those dogs were in that area. So that's why I believe that it hadn't been long before they'd been let out. Um, Grady was chasing guineas, um, which was a normal thing to do. [00:30:28] Speaker 2: What, what are guineas? [00:30:29] Alec Murdoch: Uh, guineafowl is, a guineafowl is like, um, it's like a chicken. It's a domestic bird that, you know, we had 'em, I, they make a lot of racket. It's like a, you know, I know this sounds silly, but it's like a, a guard bird. Um, because anytime, you know, they just make a lot of racket anytime anything unusual is going on. If anything, if anything disturbs them, it could be a person, it could be somebody driving up, whatever. They gonna make a lot of racket. So, um, Grady's chasing the guineas. Um, you know, Paul's fooling with, um, Rogan's dog Cash. Um, Maggie's just kind of standing there watching the dogs, which is normal. And they were in that place, as, as the dogs are out longer, they branch out more. Um, but at that point in time, they were, they were right there. So that told me they hadn't been out, um, a long time. Bubba, Bubba catches the chicken. Um, I'm talking to Maggie for just, you know, a short time before Bubba catches the chicken. I take the chicken, I put it, when Bubba, Bubba didn't chase, these dogs didn't chase the chickens to kill them. And they didn't normally kill them. They did kill them sometimes, but it was about the chase with those dogs. And, and, and they were proud when they caught one. You could just tell by the way Bubba would prance to you when he brought the chicken to you. He was proud that he had caught it. But he wasn't trying to kill it. And so most times the chicken wasn't dead. And that chicken wasn't dead. Um, but a lot of times they would be stunned. And they would be just real lethargic. So you had to take the chicken and you had to put it up somewhere. Where, you know, the chicken could be by itself for a minute. And it would eventually, usually, you know, come back to normal and go on about its, you know, whatever chicken does. [00:32:37] Speaker 2: Did you get the chicken out of Bubba's mouth? I did. [00:32:41] Alec Murdoch: I took the chicken from Bubba and I put it, um, on top of that. [00:32:48] Speaker 2: Now, now we've seen, you know, this video of Paul, um, with Cash, Rogan's dog. Did you know, did you know that was going on? What, what do you remember about that? About? [00:33:03] Alec Murdoch: Yeah, I knew Paul was, I knew Paul was fooling with, um, when I pulled up on the golf cart, Maggie was standing back sort of where the driveway would be. Um, it sort of runs out at the feed room, um, storage rooms, what we call it. It's been called the feed room. Um, but it sort of ran out. Maggie was a little bit further up where she could see back in that angle where the dogs were. Paul was fooling with, um, Rogan's dog back towards the kennel. If I remember when I first got there, Paul was more in the driveway. But then, I knew Paul was in the kennel fooling with Cash, yes. But did I know what he was doing? I didn't know exactly what he was doing, no. [00:33:46] Speaker 2: Did, um, you... [00:33:47] Alec Murdoch: I knew he was fooling with his, I knew he was fooling with his tail. [00:33:51] Speaker 2: Was Cash in the kennel when, when you pulled up, you think? [00:33:55] Alec Murdoch: Not when I first got there. [00:33:57] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:33:58] Speaker 2: Um, did Bubba or Grady have any, uh, collars on? [00:34:02] Alec Murdoch: Yes. [00:34:03] Speaker 2: Which, both dogs, one dog, do you remember? [00:34:05] Alec Murdoch: I don't know about Grady, but I know Bubba had on his, what we call a tracking collar. Paul, for his hunting dogs, um, Paul had a system, a series of tracking collars. And I think there were five, it might have been six. But it was a tracking collar, um, that had a, a device that would tell you where that collar was. So that, because Bubba was bad about, you know, he would, he would stay close for a minute, but then he would take off. And he'd especially do that on Maggie. He would, he would take off and run. Um, and so he had on a tracking collar that if he did that, you could, you know, you, you could know, okay, he's, you know, half a mile down here. It's not going to follow him, but so far, but it would follow a good long distance. So you could go get the dog, um, if he ran off, which Bubba frequently would do, especially when it was just Mags and Bubba. Um, and so Paul, Paul probably would have been the one to put that on Bubba. [00:35:13] Speaker 2: So you've got us where you've gotten the chicken out of Bubba's mouth and put it up on a dog house or something? [00:35:22] Alec Murdoch: I believe, I believe what I put it on, and I don't remember this, but I've seen pictures in all this, and I saw the chicken sitting on top of the, um, what looks to me like a portable dog crate. Whatever, wherever it was sitting on there is where I would have put it up there. You know, I don't have any reason to believe anybody else moved that chicken, and it ultimately, that chicken did die. [00:35:43] Speaker 2: And, um, what did you do after you got the chicken out of Bubba's mouth? [00:35:48] Alec Murdoch: I got out of there. I, I, I left. I went back to the house. All right. [00:35:53] Speaker 2: Well, look, before we do that, um, we've seen the dog kennel video with Cash and, and Mr. Davis, and we slowed it down for him. Do you see the water hose in that video on the ground? Do you remember seeing that? Uh, yes, I do. Was the water hose out? [00:36:15] Alec Murdoch: Obviously, um, in the video, but can, I, I, I don't specifically remember that, but I can look in that video and see it. Right. But that's not something that I noticed. [00:36:27] Speaker 2: So, but you've seen it in the video here. Yes, sir. And then the two dogs were out. Absolutely. [00:36:36] Alec Murdoch: Bubba and Grady. [00:36:38] Speaker 2: And then you, you head back, how did you get back to the house? [00:36:42] Alec Murdoch: The same route. I mean, the same route I'd come on. I came down the driveway, made a left on, um, you, you saw my route, um, in the car. I, I, I drove that same route. [00:36:57] Speaker 2: My question was, obviously wasn't clear enough. What, were you in a vehicle? You walked? What mode of transportation did you use to get back to the house? [00:37:06] Alec Murdoch: Same way I came. I went back in the golf cart. And it is the golf cart. If you remember that Mark Ball testified that he saw where we normally would park it. Pull up, pull along the, the, the front entrance. And it, you'd come in from the left and you'd go just past it and be on the right. And you'd come in from the right and you'd be just past it on the left. And that's where I got in it. And that's where I put it back. [00:37:35] Speaker 2: Did you do anything else, um, before leaving, after you took the chicken out of Bubba's mouth? [00:37:45] Alec Murdoch: No. [00:37:46] Speaker 2: We've heard about Bubba being stubborn. How long did it take you to get the chicken out of Bubba's mouth? [00:37:52] Alec Murdoch: Well, Bubba could be stubborn, but Bubba would listen to me. And, uh, and, and another thing, when Bubba had on that collar, one of the other features of that collar was. [00:38:01] Speaker 2: What did Bubba have on the collar or was it Grady? [00:38:04] Alec Murdoch: Bubba had on the collar. Bubba had the collar. Bubba, I know Bubba had a collar on. Bubba had a collar on. And I'm not sure about Grady. [00:38:11] Speaker 2: Okay, go ahead. [00:38:12] Alec Murdoch: If I misspoke on that, there's no question about it. Bubba had on the collar. I assume Grady did too. Um, but I didn't, I didn't, even though I saw Grady, I didn't notice for the fact that Grady had on the collar. Okay. But he probably did. [00:38:29] Speaker 2: So. Makes sense to me that he did. How long did it take to get the chickens out of, chicken out of Bubba's mouth? [00:38:35] Alec Murdoch: No. It didn't take, it didn't take long. Number one, Bubba's coming back there to show me, hey, I caught this chicken. So, he's not running from me. He's proud of that fact that he caught this chicken. So, I mean, he's, he comes right up to me. Um, Bubba was really strong. Um, but, you know, you just, you take your thumb when the dog's clenched and his mouth's a little bit open. All you do is you take your thumb and you push his gum in really tight against those sharp teeth and his mouth opens right up. Took the chicken out and put it on, I believe, the portable dog kennel. And then left. [00:39:14] Speaker 2: And then I left. Then leave, okay. And, did you go back to the house? [00:39:22] Alec Murdoch: I went straight back to the house, to the air conditioner. [00:39:26] Speaker 2: And what'd you do when you got back to the house? [00:39:28] Alec Murdoch: I lay down on the couch. [00:39:31] Speaker 2: And then what? Well, I mean, was the TV on when you went back? [00:39:37] Alec Murdoch: Yeah, I mean, the TV never got cut off. [00:39:42] Speaker 2: So you went back to the house, you lay down on the couch, and then what happened next? [00:39:47] Alec Murdoch: I'm not, uh, I'm not positive I dozed off for a minute, or didn't doze off for a minute, but, uh, I got up off of the couch, uh, and I was, I made up my mind I was going to visit my mom. [00:40:01] Speaker 2: Had you spoken to Barbara Mixon earlier in the day? [00:40:04] Alec Murdoch: I did. I talked to Barbara most days. If I didn't see her, I talked to her. [00:40:09] Speaker 2: And what was your understanding of, of your mother's, uh, condition on, late on the afternoon of the summer? [00:40:18] Alec Murdoch: She was agitated, which she got agitated, uh, when my dad, you know, I mean, we were putting my dad in the hospital. I mean, he had a lot, uh, over the 18 months, two years, I mean, my dad was in the hospital, he was in the hospital a lot. And my mom, I, I believe my mom knew when my dad wasn't there, because, I mean, she would get agitated. I mean, that's just the only term you can think of, she'd get agitated, she'd, she'd cry a lot, she'd, um, she'd be fussy when she normally wouldn't be fussy. Uh, I mean, she was, I know Alzheimer's patients are unpredictable, but I'm convinced she knew, because it happened frequently. And Barbara Ann told me, "Your mom's agitated, you need to check on her." I gave her medicine, she's resting, um, so it wasn't anything urgent. Um, but she's resting, so what, what Barbara would do, and Barbara could handle her, Barbara could handle her better than, I mean, my mama, we all love Barbara. My mama loved Barbara. My mama could get, I mean, Barbara could get my mom to do things that nobody else, when she'd fuss for anybody else, including me or my brothers or my sisters, Barbara could get her, you know, in, in, in order. And, um, but Barbara had given her medicine, and, and to, to settle her down and calm her down, and, and that would sometimes make her go to sleep for a little while. But then she'd be agitated when she woke up. [00:42:06] Speaker 2: The, um, so did you go check on your mom? [00:42:10] Alec Murdoch: I did. [00:42:12] Speaker 2: Did, um, where did you park when you got there? [00:42:18] Alec Murdoch: In the, you, you saw the pictures, there's two exits off of that, um, deck, one of them to the right, one of them straight out that back door. I would have parked to the left. If, if you, if you're coming down these steps, if these are the steps, it would be to the left and back over there. All right. Um. Which is where I always parked, or where we always parked, anytime you were going in that entrance. All right. [00:42:48] Speaker 2: All right. I'm gonna, I'm gonna stop there and, um, ask. Doug, if you don't mind pulling up States Exhibit 524, which is the GM OnStar data, and slide 38, um, which is in evidence. Can, can you, can you see this, uh, the slide with those dots? [00:43:18] Alec Murdoch: Yes, sir. I can. I can. [00:43:21] Speaker 2: And the, and the red dots here at the, um, that seem to be joined. Where, where is that in relation to your parent's house? [00:43:30] Alec Murdoch: Where the arrow is? [00:43:31] Speaker 2: Yes, sir. [00:43:33] Alec Murdoch: All right. That's back in the area where I'm talking about. All right. So if you look in this picture, all right, you see the, you, you see the open area with the green grass. That's the, that's the front door. Okay. Yeah. Right, right where that circle is. That's the front door. If you look at closely at the house, you can see a big dormer right in the middle of the roof. That's right over the front door. The white thing to the left of the house, that's like a parking pad where the, where the driveway ends. And there's a parking pad. Like, so you go, if you follow the driveway all the way to the house, you're going to run straight into a carport. All right. By the, by the carport door. Just to the left before you get to the carport is this area that you can see here. That's, that's part driveway, mainly parking pad. Okay. [00:44:27] Speaker ?: All right. [00:44:28] Speaker 2: I'm going to, Doug, if you'll pull up Defensive Exhibit 130, which is in evidence, please, sir. Yeah. And from this photo, can you point out roughly where, where you normally, where you parked that evening? All right. [00:44:52] Alec Murdoch: This is the, this is the entrance to the right that I'm talking about. There's an exit and an entrance right in front of that door that you see there. So if you came down those steps, walk to your left would be down there would be where I parked. [00:45:07] Speaker 2: Oh, we would you have parked on the grass? [00:45:10] Alec Murdoch: Uh, you get on the edge of the grass back there. There's, there's some grass there for sure. But it's not, it's not the area up here by the house where it's sodded and. Sure. This, this grass that you can really see in this picture. So it, it may be on the edge of the grass. [00:45:29] Speaker 2: Yeah. In relation to the satellite dish, um, are you looking this photo? Are you to the right of that? [00:45:35] Alec Murdoch: Yeah, you'd be to the right of that satellite dish. [00:45:38] Speaker 2: Okay. Yes. And, and. [00:45:41] Alec Murdoch: I believe that satellite dish is right on the edge of the, um. You know, there's a, there's a hedge. And like, you see the, I don't know what you call it, a border. Like a border where the grass ends and the flower bed or whatever it is starts. Right. I think, you can't see it, but I think that satellite's probably close to that border. [00:46:05] Speaker 2: All right, well let's um. So it'd be to the right of that in this picture. Doug, uh, when you pull up a defendant's exhibit 134, see if this is a. [00:46:15] Speaker ?: Yeah. [00:46:17] Speaker 2: So is, is the door that you're talking about. That's it. The, the stairs that, are those the ones where you would enter? [00:46:27] Speaker ?: Right. [00:46:28] Alec Murdoch: That these are the steps that I used that night that we always used. And, and, and one of the reasons being is my dad, this, this door goes into what we call the breakfast room. The breakfast room leads right into the kitchen. And so, straight through this door, all of the breakfast room is kind of to the left. That door goes straight through another door way. There's no door there, but it's like a, just an opening. It goes into the kitchen. Immediately to your right of that entrance into the kitchen is the entrance into where my mom and dad's rooms were. So you, if you went through that door, you were in a little area that had my mom's closet, my dad's closet. Um, a little bit further, you go into my mom's bedroom. If you went to the right, you would go, my, my dad and my mom didn't sleep in the same room at this point. But the bedrooms were, you know, they were back to back. There was a door going from one to the other that was blocked that was there. And then there was a bathroom. So this is really, this is really the part of the house that at their age was getting used. So that's why you went in this entrance because my mom and whoever was caring for her was always in her bedroom, which would be just on the other side of the room that has these windows that you see to the right. All right. Those would be the windows for the room where my dad slept. [00:48:01] Speaker 2: Right. [00:48:02] Alec Murdoch: And then my mom's right on the other side. The kitchen's right there. This is the part of the house they were always in. [00:48:07] Speaker 2: And, and are you the only one that would pull up in the back like that? [00:48:12] Alec Murdoch: No. [00:48:13] Speaker 2: Is it common for your brothers and your sister to do the same? [00:48:16] Alec Murdoch: Oh, we all did it. I mean, we all, we all parked in the same way. If you knew you were going to the front of the house or if you knew there was a crowd there or for whatever, you, you may park on the driveway. But if you knew under normal circumstances, my dad always stayed in the breakfast room where he had a recliner and a TV. That's where my dad always was. My dad never, you would never go catch him sitting in the den up front or in a living room. He just wasn't up there. He was in this room watching TV or either he was on this back deck. And my mom was either in her room, which was just off of that, or she might be in the kitchen or the breakfast room. [00:49:09] Speaker 2: When you got to the house, who was there? Your mother's house on the night of June 7th. [00:49:15] Alec Murdoch: My mom was there and Shelly Smith was there. [00:49:18] Speaker 2: And what did you do when you got there? [00:49:21] Alec Murdoch: The first thing I did was I tried to, I tried to, I knocked on the door. The door was locked and I knocked on the door. Shelly didn't hear me. [00:49:30] Speaker 2: And then what did you do next? I called. [00:49:32] Alec Murdoch: Called what? I called my mom's house to let Shelly know I was there. Please come let me in. [00:49:41] Speaker 2: Okay. And is that the house phone that's been referred to? Yes. [00:49:45] Alec Murdoch: Okay. [00:49:46] Speaker 2: And did she let you in? Sure. And then what happened next? [00:49:49] Alec Murdoch: I went in and I visited with my mom. You want me to go into detail on that? [00:49:55] Speaker 2: Just briefly. Yeah. [00:49:57] Alec Murdoch: What did you do? I went in the house. In my mom's bedroom, my mom had a bed that was where she slept in normal times. It was like, you know, a bed with, you know, the poles coming out of the corner, a poster bed coming out of the corners. And she had a bed like that, where she slept, but she didn't sleep there anymore. But it was in the room. It was a hospital bed. So when you walked in the room, her bed was to the right. Against the wall to the left was a hospital bed, like a single bed, but a hospital bed and a TV. And then there was a recliner where whoever was helping her would usually sit. So I went in and I sat down on my mom's hospital bed. And I just talked to her for a minute. My mom was awake and I held her hand. [00:50:57] Speaker 2: What kind of condition was she in? [00:51:01] Alec Murdoch: She was, I mean her condition was not good at any time. But given her overall condition, she seemed to be doing pretty well. I mean she wasn't agitated like I thought she would be, or like I was worried she would be, or like Barbara had described her at that point. So she wasn't agitated. And I just talked to her. Any time we talked to my mom, we always tried to be real positive and, you know, upbeat. Just, and I just talked to her. You know, I just talked to her. Made sure she was okay. [00:51:45] Speaker 2: Did you stay seated on the side of her hospital style bed or did you move around? [00:51:52] Alec Murdoch: I mean, I stayed there for a few minutes, you know. I stayed there and I talked to her. More than just a few seconds. And then, but I didn't stay there. She was, she did look tired. So I got up and I went and I, I think I sat on my mom's bed for a minute to start with. And then I laid down on my mom's bed. Which is, you know, that's what I, I normally did when I went in there. There wasn't like a lot of chairs to sit in. And I just laid back on the bed. [00:52:27] Speaker 2: Talked with Shelly and we watched TV. Now when you're talking about your mom's bed, are you referring to her regular bed? That's right. [00:52:34] Alec Murdoch: Not, not her hospital bed. Not the bed she was in, but her, her bed, the one I was talking about with like posts. [00:52:42] Speaker 2: Right. Um, the, um, let me skip something. Um, was Maggie planning to go over to your mother's with you that night? [00:53:00] Alec Murdoch: No, she wasn't planning to go with me that night. [00:53:03] Speaker 2: Okay. [00:53:04] Alec Murdoch: No, in fact, Maggie didn't really like to visit my mom. Um, it was, she loved to visit my dad. And she loved to spend time with my dad. And she spent a lot of time with my mom when my mom was healthy. But, you know, I mean, by this point, my mom, she was a shell. And she was a shell of her old self. And, I mean, it was kind of, I mean, it was kind of sad to go and visit her anytime. I mean, she, she just, she wasn't healthy. And, and Maggie didn't like to go and just visit my mom. [00:53:54] Speaker 2: When, when you, when you left Moselle to head to Almeda, um, the evening after you'd come back to the house at Moselle. What, what exit did you use of the Moselle property when you're going to Almeda on the evening of June 7th? [00:54:15] Alec Murdoch: I went out the main gates, which would be straight ahead. The, um, you've heard of the two gates. There's the, there's the shop entrance. Um, there's actually several entrances. But the main ones we used, there was an entrance by the Dove Field. It was an entrance further down by Sawtooth Oaks. But the main ones we used were the shop entrance and what we call the main entrance, where the brick gates were. [00:54:40] Speaker 2: Did, did you go, why, why didn't you go by the kennels on your way out? [00:54:44] Alec Murdoch: There, there wasn't a reason to go by the kennels at that point. And I was going to Almeda, which, that, the main gate would be the, the gates that were closer. [00:55:04] Speaker 2: Did you notify Maggie, uh, in some form that you were leaving to go to, um, see your mom? [00:55:11] Alec Murdoch: I tried to call her. [00:55:14] Speaker 2: And, and did she answer? No. And what'd you do after that? [00:55:19] Alec Murdoch: I think I tried to call her again. [00:55:22] Speaker 2: And, did she answer? [00:55:24] Alec Murdoch: No, she didn't answer. And at some point I texted her after that. [00:55:30] Speaker 2: Well, the fact that she didn't answer on two times, well, did that concern you? [00:55:35] Alec Murdoch: At that time? [00:55:36] Speaker 2: Right. [00:55:37] Alec Murdoch: It didn't concern me at all. Number one, she was with Paw Paw. So, no, I mean, number two, I mean, it's, it's not unusual to not be able to get somebody all the time when they're at the house or they're on the property. I mean, you've heard all the testimony about how spotty cell service was. So, no, at the time, it didn't strike me as anything unusual. Okay. [00:56:16] Speaker 2: Okay. Now, moving back to Almeda, you spent time with your mother and then, then you left to head back to Moselle, is that correct? [00:56:26] Speaker ?: That's correct. [00:56:27] Speaker 2: Did you drive, did you drive straight back to Moselle? I did. Now, Alec, there's some, um, information from the telemetry data off your Suburban and perhaps some of this OnStar GPS data that indicates that at some point in time in your mother's driveway you stopped for about a minute. Do you recall seeing that data? [00:56:51] Alec Murdoch: I did. [00:56:52] Speaker 2: What were you doing when you stopped? Do you recall? [00:56:56] Alec Murdoch: I was getting, I was getting my phone that, um, I, I, my phone had gotten, there was a console in the middle of my car and my phone had gotten down in the console, between the console and the seat where you couldn't get to it. [00:57:10] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:57:11] Speaker 2: Were you, during that minute or however long it was, were you disposing of murder weapons, Alec? No. [00:57:22] Alec Murdoch: No. [00:57:23] Speaker 2: Were you disposing of bloody clothes? [00:57:26] Alec Murdoch: No. [00:57:27] Speaker 2: And your, your ride back to, um, Moselle was it, uh, were you driving faster than normal, normal? [00:57:41] Speaker ?: I was driving. [00:57:42] Alec Murdoch: I was driving however I drive, the normal way that I drive. Okay. [00:57:47] Speaker 2: When you got back to the Moselle property, how did you enter the property? What entrance did you use? [00:58:05] Alec Murdoch: Came right back through the main gate. [00:58:07] Speaker 2: And what'd you do then? [00:58:08] Alec Murdoch: Went straight to the house. [00:58:10] Speaker 2: And when you got to the house, what'd you do? [00:58:15] Alec Murdoch: I went inside. [00:58:18] Speaker 2: Were lights on when you pulled up or? [00:58:22] Alec Murdoch: Lights were on in the house for sure. I can't remember if there were flood lights on or not. I, I, I don't believe there were any flood lights on, but there were definitely lights, all the, all the lights in the house were on, yes. [00:58:37] Speaker 2: And when you, um, how long did you stay inside the house roughly? [00:58:44] Alec Murdoch: Uh, now that I've seen the benefit of, of these records, I was in there several minutes. [00:58:52] Speaker 2: Obviously, I mean, were you surprised that Paul and Maggie had not made it back to the house? [00:59:01] Alec Murdoch: You know, I don't know if surprised is the right word, but, I mean, I, I would have, I thought they would have been back by then. [00:59:08] Speaker ?: Right. [00:59:08] Alec Murdoch: You know, but, I mean, did it cause me to go into any, it wasn't like I was shocked. But, I mean, I thought they would be there. I mean, I, I distinctly remember, uh, uh, you know, I went and looked. Sometimes, I was very hot natured. Number one, I was hot. I was heavy. And I was taking pills. So, I was always hot. Maggie was always cold. Sometimes, she would watch TV. We had a TV in the, um, hunting room. You see on the wall there. Sometimes, Maggie would be in there watching TV where she could have the thermostat different than we always get the cold in the, in the main part of the house. So, I know I, I know I went in there and, and, and looked in there for her. Uh, it's not unusual for Maggie to be taking a bath and be, uh, not able to hear me. So, I went back there and, and, and, I know I did those two things and, and, and looked in those two places. And they weren't there. And so, you know, I knew they'd been at the kennels and I assumed they were still up there. [01:00:18] Speaker 2: So, what'd you do? [01:00:19] Alec Murdoch: I went to the kennels. I may have tried to call them. In fact, I probably did try to call them. We, I, I, I would think I called them. Um, but as I sit here right now, I'm not positive, but I would think I did. Would think I tried to call them to see. [01:00:35] Speaker 2: And now like when you, did you drive down to the kennels in your suburban? I did. [01:00:41] Speaker ?: What'd you see? I did. What'd you see? I saw what y'all have seen pictures of. I saw what y'all have seen pictures of. I saw what y'all have seen pictures of. I saw what y'all have seen pictures of. I saw what y'all have seen pictures of. I saw what y'all have seen pictures of. I saw what y'all have seen pictures of. I saw what y'all have seen pictures of. I saw what y'all have seen pictures of. [01:00:48] Speaker 4: I saw what y'all have seen pictures of. [01:00:54] Speaker 2: I saw what y'all have seen pictures of. [01:01:00] Speaker 5: I saw what y'all have seen pictures of. I saw what y'all have seen pictures of. [01:01:09] Speaker ?: I saw what y'all have seen pictures of. [01:01:22] Speaker 5: I saw what y'all have seen pictures of. I saw what y'all have seen pictures of. [01:01:32] Speaker ?: I saw what y'all have seen pictures of. I saw what y'all have seen pictures of. I saw what y'all have seen pictures of. I saw what y'all have seen pictures of. I saw what y'all have seen pictures of. I saw what y'all have seen pictures of. [01:01:50] Speaker 3: I saw what y'all have seen pictures of. I saw what y'all have seen pictures of. [01:01:52] Speaker ?: I saw what y'all have seen pictures of. I saw what y'all have seen pictures of. I saw what y'all have seen pictures of. I saw what y'all have seen pictures of. [01:01:57] Alec Murdoch: I saw what y'all have seen pictures of. I saw what y'all have seen pictures of. [01:01:59] Speaker ?: I saw what y'all have seen pictures of. I saw what y'all have seen pictures of. I saw what y'all have seen pictures of. I saw what y'all have seen pictures of. I saw what y'all have seen pictures of. I saw what y'all have seen pictures of. I saw what y'all have seen pictures of. I saw what y'all have seen pictures of. I saw what y'all have seen pictures of. I saw what y'all have seen pictures of. I saw what y'all have seen pictures of. I saw what y'all have seen pictures of. I saw what y'all have seen pictures of. [01:02:13] Speaker 2: Did you see them on the ground when you were pulling up in your suburban? [01:02:28] Speaker ?: I did. [01:02:29] Speaker 2: And what did you do when you came to a stop, Allen? [01:02:38] Speaker 5: I think I jumped out of my car. I'm not exactly sure what I did. But I know I got out of my car. I know I ran back to my car. I called 911. I was on the phone with 911. I was trying to tend to Paul Paul. I was trying to tend to Maggie. And I just went back and forth between them. [01:03:12] Speaker 2: Were you going to Paul and Maggie while you were on the phone with the 911 operators? [01:03:22] Speaker ?: Yes. [01:03:23] Alec Murdoch: Okay. [01:03:24] Speaker 2: Yes. In a little bit, I'm going to play the 911 tape, but I just want to ask you, and you've told law enforcement that's been played here in the court. What did you do when you went up to Paul at some point in time? [01:03:53] Speaker 5: Hey, Paul. Paul was so, he was so bad. At some point, I know, I mean, I know I tried to check him for a pulse. I know I tried to turn him over. [01:04:24] Speaker 2: When you say you tried to turn him over, why were you trying to turn him over? [01:04:34] Speaker 5: I don't know. I don't know. I don't know why I tried to turn him over. Me and my boys laid face down. He's done the way he's done. His head was the way his head was. I could see his brain laying on the sidewalk. I didn't know what to do. I mean, I tried to turn him over. I grabbed him by the belt, Luke. I tried to turn him over. [01:05:06] Alec Murdoch: And when I did, his phone popped out. I mean, his phone popped out. And she picked it up and I put it right back there. [01:05:19] Speaker 2: Do you have any idea how it popped out? [01:05:22] Alec Murdoch: I mean, I know it came out of his pocket when I pulled on his belt, Luke. When I pulled him to turn him over. And it just popped out. And I mean, it popped right beside him. It sat right beside him. [01:05:37] Speaker 2: Were you able to turn, Paul, at all? [01:05:44] Speaker 4: I mean, I didn't. I don't know if I was able to. I didn't turn him over, no. [01:05:50] Speaker ?: No. No. [01:05:52] Speaker 4: No. No. [01:05:54] Speaker 2: No. No. What side of the, uh, what side of Paul were you when you were doing this? [01:06:02] Speaker 5: I was on, um, I was on the side that was away from, I was on the side that was away from where my car was. [01:06:17] Speaker 6: Okay. Okay. [01:06:19] Speaker 5: Rion. [01:06:25] Speaker 2: What'd you do with the phone? [01:06:27] Speaker 4: I put it back on, pop off. [01:06:33] Speaker 2: You know if you put it, you know which way it was pointing, upside down, downside in any way? [01:06:39] Alec Murdoch: I couldn't tell you anything about it. I know his phone popped out, I picked it up, and I put it back on him. [01:06:46] Speaker 2: Did you see any messages on Paul's phone? [01:06:49] Alec Murdoch: No. [01:07:00] Speaker 2: Did you go to Maggie? I did. Did you touch her? [01:07:09] Speaker 5: I did. [01:07:11] Speaker 2: Where, where did you touch Maggie? [01:07:14] Speaker 5: I think I touched her down, just around like, I don't know, I don't know. If you, if you ask me exactly, I think I touched her down around her waist, but I don't know. It was so bad. [01:07:29] Speaker ?: Excuse me. I know I went back and forth. I mean, I went back and forth between them. I know. I know I went back and forth. I mean, I went back and forth between them. I know. I know. I know. I know I did. I know. I know. I know I did. [01:07:35] Speaker 5: I'd like to play Doug. Doug. Um. [01:07:38] Speaker ?: I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know I did. I'd like to play Doug. [01:07:45] Speaker 3: Um. [01:07:46] Speaker 5: I know I went back and forth. I mean I went back and forth between them. I know. I know I did. [01:08:03] Speaker 2: I'd like to play Doug. The Colleton County portion of the 911 call, which is in evidence as defendant's exhibit number nine. And Doug, this is the long version, the first clip. And stop it when I say stop it, please. [01:08:25] Speaker 7: 2021, 22 hours, 7 minutes, 9 seconds. [01:08:37] Speaker 6: I'm still here, okay? [01:08:39] Speaker 7: Colleton County Communications. [01:08:41] Speaker 6: Colleton, I have an Alex Murdoch on the line, caller from 4147 Mobile Room. He's advising that his wife and child was shot. [01:08:50] Speaker 7: Okay, and so give me the address again. 4147 Moselle Road. I've been up to it now. It's bad. Okay, how do they shoot? [01:09:03] Speaker 2: Allen, when you say, I've been up to it now and it's bad, what are you referring to? [01:09:10] Speaker 5: I'm talking about what I saw is what y'all saw pictures of. And I mean, it was bad. It was terrible. [01:09:20] Alec Murdoch: And when I first got there, I know I got out of the car. [01:09:38] Speaker 5: And I mean, I know I got out of the car. I mean, I knew. Got out of the car, but right at first, I don't, I don't, I didn't go, I don't think I'm, I went all the way to them. I think I ran back and, and, and, and that's when I called 9-1-1. And so I called 9-1-1 and while I was doing that, then is when I went to Maggie and I went to Paul. And so, that's what I think I'm talking about. [01:10:18] Speaker 2: Okay. Keep going, please. [01:10:25] Speaker 7: Oh, no, hell no. Do it now, it's bad. Okay, how do they shoot? Do they shoot their self? Oh, no, hell no. Okay, and are they breathing? No, ma'am. Okay, and you said it's your wife and your son? My wife and my son. Are they in a vehicle? No, ma'am. They're on the ground, out at my kennel. Okay, and did you see anyone? He shot in the head, and he shot really bad. He shot. Okay, where is, where is he shot at? Ma'am, I don't know, but he has blood everywhere. I just, I just, I just see his brain fade down. I tried to turn her a little bit, but she's got a hole in her head. Okay, is he breathing at all? No, no. Is he? Okay, do you see anything? Do you see anyone in the area? No, ma'am. Is there any guns near them at all? No, there's, here. What color is your house on the outside? If that's what you're asking, they didn't shoot themselves, ma'am. [01:11:59] Speaker ?: What? [01:12:01] Speaker 2: Now, right, right in there, you say the word, here. What, are you calling anybody or anything? [01:12:11] Alec Murdoch: No, I'm talking to that dispatcher. [01:12:14] Speaker 2: And what did you mean when you said, here? [01:12:18] Alec Murdoch: If you listen to that call, one of the first things she asked me, one of the first things she asked me was, did they shoot themselves? And I knew, knew, there's no way. I knew they didn't shoot themselves, there wasn't a gun, they didn't shoot themselves. And she'd asked me that. And then she asked me another question, something about that. And then you hear me say, hear, and then you hear the thing talking. And I'm telling her, hear, and then I say something. And then you hear me say, if that's what you're asking. And I'm letting her know, they didn't shoot themselves. I'm saying, hear, and then I give her an explanation, which you can't hear on that phone, but it's obvious to me what I'm doing. And I say, if that's what you're asking me. So, like, David Owens asked me on August 11th, did I call a dog, or was I talking to somebody? There was no dog that was out, and there was nobody there. [01:13:35] Speaker 2: Well, let's talk about that briefly. Well, when you got there and you saw Maggie and Paul, where were the dogs? [01:13:45] Alec Murdoch: The dogs were in the kennels. They were, yeah, dogs were in the kennels. They were wherever they were when law enforcement got there. [01:13:53] Speaker 2: And you've seen pictures, and they called Dale Davis to the stand and talked about the hose rolled up. Did you roll the hose up? [01:14:00] Alec Murdoch: No. [01:14:02] Speaker 2: Did you do anything down there at the kennels when you got there other than call 911 and attend to Maggie and Paul? [01:14:11] Alec Murdoch: No. I do know that I was trying to find a flashlight. I was trying to find a gun. Other than those things. No, I didn't do anything at the kennel. I didn't do anything with any hose. I didn't do anything with any dogs. [01:14:31] Speaker 2: Was there anybody with you? No. All right, keep going, please. [01:14:41] Speaker 7: You can't see it from the road. Okay. Is it a house or a mobile home? It's a house. Okay. And what is your name? My name is Alex Murdoch. Okay. Did you hear anything, or did you come home and find out? I've been gone. I, I just came back. Okay. And was anyone else supposed to be at your house? No, ma'am. We hurry. But we're getting somebody out there, too. We're getting somebody out there, too. We're getting somebody out there, too. We're getting somebody out there, too. [01:15:24] Speaker 2: Allie, we just heard you say, I should have known. What are you referring to? [01:15:45] Speaker 5: I said, Pawpaw, I should have known. [01:15:49] Speaker 2: What were you referring to? [01:15:51] Speaker 3: I was referring to Pawpaw guy, so many threats. [01:15:54] Speaker 5: I didn't take serious. I think twice about. I'm just telling him, Pawpaw, I should have known. I don't specifically remember saying that, but I can clearly hear myself say that. [01:16:20] Speaker 2: Okay. What kind of threats did you understand? Paul is receiving. [01:16:31] Alec Murdoch: I mean, Paul got. He got the most vile threats. I mean, the stuff that was on social media. I mean, it was. I mean, you couldn't believe it. You couldn't believe it. It was so over the top. Truthfully, we didn't think anything about it. I mean, it was just so crazy that, you know, we just, I mean, people talking about what he was going to get and how they were going to do this and get him. And I mean, it's stuff you really, I mean, you, we disregarded it because it's so over the top. I thought it's so over the top. [01:17:24] Speaker 2: Keep going, please. [01:17:33] Speaker 7: Okay, what is her name? Maggie. Maggie. Maggie is her name? Yes, ma'am. Okay. When's the last time you talked to Maggie? Hour and a half ago. You were asked the last time you saw them and you said hour and a half to two hours ago. [01:18:22] Speaker 2: And then she followed up two hours ago. You just heard that? [01:18:26] Alec Murdoch: I did hear that. And I said approximately to her question. [01:18:35] Speaker 2: When was the last time you saw them, Maggie and Paul? [01:18:40] Alec Murdoch: Right after I took the chicken from Bubba. [01:18:45] Speaker 2: And the video we've seen is timestamp 844 PM, is that correct? [01:18:56] Alec Murdoch: That's right. [01:18:58] Speaker 2: So was it shortly after 844? [01:19:00] Alec Murdoch: It was. It wasn't long after that because you can hear when Bubba gets the chicken and it wasn't long after I took the chicken from him that I left. [01:19:11] Speaker 2: And then you called 911, there are records of that, but do you remember roughly 907 or right before 907? [01:19:20] Alec Murdoch: I mean, I've seen the records and seen the transcripts, yeah. [01:19:25] Speaker 2: And then this is, and there are records of this, but this is some minutes into the conversation with 911 operators, correct? [01:19:32] Alec Murdoch: That's right. [01:19:32] Speaker 2: More than everything we know now, I mean, was it roughly an hour and a half the last time you saw them? [01:19:39] Alec Murdoch: It was. That would have, with the time of however long it took to get to this point, however many it is, it's 1010 to 10, however many. You can look exactly and see what point this is and know what time it is, but it's between 1010 and 1015, and so I'd seen them around 845, a little bit after. [01:20:07] Speaker 2: All right, please keep going. [01:20:10] Speaker 7: Did you say what they were doing at all? No, I talked to her in person. You talked to her in person? Sam, please hurry. But we're getting somebody out there, too. Me asking you these questions, don't slow them down, okay? And you sure they're not breathing? Is he moving at all, your son? I know you said that she was shot in the head, but what about your son? I know you said that she was shot in the head, but what about your son? Nobody, they're not. They don't want to help me through that. What is your telephone number? I'm going back to my house just to get a gun, just in case. [01:21:13] Speaker 2: Did you go back to the house and get a gun? [01:21:15] Speaker 4: I did. [01:21:17] Speaker 2: And what's the gun that you got? And how did you load this gun? I mean, what did you load it with, if anything? [01:21:31] Alec Murdoch: That was a gun, as best I can remember, I believe I got that gun off the pool table where you heard there were some other guns. I think that gun was laying with that pool table. I don't know if I'm positive, but I'm pretty sure it was on that pool table, would have been the first place I came to. I know I was grabbing the first gun I could get. I grabbed a handful of shells out of the, that I could get my hands on. I know the gun had a shell in it that I loaded, and I know I had a few shells, so. [01:22:05] Speaker 2: Have you seen in this case where there was a 16-gauge shell put in that gun? [01:22:10] Alec Murdoch: I've seen in the records, and I've seen and heard in the testimony that I put a 16-gauge shell in the gun. [01:22:15] Speaker 2: Is that a 16-gauge shotgun? [01:22:19] Alec Murdoch: It's not a 16-gauge shotgun. [01:22:21] Speaker 2: Why'd you put a 16-gauge shell in it? [01:22:24] Alec Murdoch: I obviously didn't realize what I was doing. I mean, I know you can't put a 16-gauge shell in a 12-gauge gun and not, I mean, I've been hunting my whole life. I know you can't do that, and that's, that's not a mistake I would have made, that's not a mistake I'd have made under any circumstances other than that night. [01:22:49] Speaker 2: Why did you go back to the house to get a gun? [01:22:55] Speaker 4: I just didn't know. I didn't know. I mean, it was just, I didn't know if somebody was still out there. I don't know. I guess I didn't know. I just keep going. [01:23:34] Speaker 7: And does anything look out of place? Ma'am, I, I. Not, not particularly, really, no ma'am. Okay. [01:23:54] Speaker 2: Go back to where he said he's going. To my house to get a gun, just, just a few seconds back. Ten seconds, maybe. [01:24:02] Speaker 7: I know you're upset, Mr. Murdoch, but I, I don't want you to get a gun and, and have a gun out whenever my officers get there, okay? [01:24:09] Speaker 2: Back up some more. Back up some more, please. [01:24:13] Speaker 7: My house, just to get a gun, just in case. What is your telephone number? Four, two, twelve, twenty-seven. I'm going back to my house, just to get a gun, just in case. I'm about a hundred yards to my house. [01:24:38] Speaker 2: Allie, you said you're about a hundred yards from the house? [01:24:43] Alec Murdoch: That's what I said. [01:24:45] Speaker 2: Is it much further than that? [01:24:46] Alec Murdoch: I mean, as you've heard in the testimony, it's eleven hundred and something feet, but. [01:24:55] Speaker 2: Okay. [01:24:56] Alec Murdoch: I said I was a hundred yards. [01:24:57] Speaker 2: You, you, you were, you were wrong about your estimate? I'm sure I was wrong. Okay. Keep going. [01:25:06] Speaker 7: And does anything look out of place? Ma'am, I, I. Not, not particularly, really, no, ma'am. Okay. Well, I know you're upset, Mr. Murdoch, but I, I don't want you to get a gun and, and have a gun out whenever my officers get there, okay? I will not do that. He's been being threatened by, my son had a boat sack. He's been being threatened for months and months and months. He's been hit several times, and he should, he's finally, I could. Do you know who was threatening your son? It's too many years. I just, uh, hold the phone. One second. And you don't know the name of who was threatening him at all? My, my son knows. My, my son knows. Your son knows who was threatening him? I have another son now. Okay. All right, I'm going back down there. Yeah. [01:26:54] Speaker 2: All right, roll to, roll to the, um, the next tape of the same call. [01:27:13] Speaker 7: Two, nine, twenty-one, twenty-two hours, thirteen minutes, fifty-eight seconds. [01:27:30] Speaker ?: Three, eight, one, twelve, fifteen, oh, three. [01:27:36] Speaker 7: Well, they're closed, ma'am. Yeah, they're, they've been around with you ever since, uh, you've got on the phone with me. I have multiple people coming out there to you. [01:27:51] Speaker ?: Okay, can you do me a favor, Mr. Murdoch, and turn on the flashers on your car, so that way they can see where the kennels are? [01:27:57] Speaker 7: Okay, can you do me a favor, Mr. Murdoch, and turn on the flashers on your car, so that way they can see where the kennels are? Do you have your flashers on your car, Mr. Murdoch, and turn on the flashers on your car, so that way they can see where they can see where the kennels are? Two, twenty-one, we'll turn the phone down to station one-eight, so you will need station one-five. [01:28:21] Speaker ?: That's the turn, just stay in two-five-up. [01:28:29] Speaker 7: Do you have your flashers on for me, Mr. Murdoch? Yeah. Okay, I don't want you to touch them at all, okay? I don't know if you've already touched them, but I don't want you to touch them, just in case they can get any kind of evidence, okay? I've already touched them, trying to get a, um, to see if they were breathing. [01:28:52] Speaker 2: Now, Ali, that second clip starts at 22, 13, 10, 13, 58, and you're asked, don't, I mean, you're told don't touch them. Had you touched them by then? Yes. And that way you told the 9-1-1 operator. [01:29:12] Speaker 4: That is. [01:29:13] Speaker 2: And, um, I mean, can you say exactly, during that six, seven minutes, when you actually touched them? [01:29:25] Alec Murdoch: I know I touched Maggie. [01:29:30] Speaker 5: Um, I touched Maggie several times, but, I mean, I think, I didn't, I don't think I touched Pawpaw, but two times. [01:29:52] Speaker 2: Did you touch, uh, one or both of them before you got in the car and drove back to the house? [01:30:02] Speaker 3: Yes. Yeah. [01:30:05] Speaker 2: One or both? Both. Both. [01:30:11] Speaker 7: Okay, well, I, I just don't want you to move anything, just in case they can get any kind of evidence, okay? Okay. Okay, and did your son, I know you said that he had been threatening, did your son make reports of this at all? [01:30:43] Speaker ?: Yes, ma'am. [01:30:47] Speaker 7: Paul, yes, ma'am. Can you get it? [01:30:51] Speaker 2: Al, you informed the 9-1-1 operator that, that Paul had made reports of these threats. What are you referring to? [01:30:58] Alec Murdoch: Uh, I mean, I, I, I just know that it had been reported. I, I don't know that, I mean, I don't believe there was any, like, formal police reports or, um, that type of thing. But, I mean, it, it, it had been reported and, I mean, it was, it was well known. [01:31:17] Speaker 2: Okay. So, were you saying he had filed some official report when you said yes? [01:31:23] Alec Murdoch: No, I never thought, I never, I've never thought there was a police report or some formal report like that, no. [01:31:33] Speaker 2: Do you know whether or not he made some type of report on campus? [01:31:38] Alec Murdoch: Oh, I know he did. [01:31:40] Speaker 2: What, what do you know? [01:31:41] Alec Murdoch: I mean, I know that there was a, there was a time when he went to, he was asked to come meet with, um, God, I can't even remember the gentleman's name now, but I appreciated it so much that I never thought I'd forget it, but [01:32:05] Speaker 2: Was it part of student counseling services? [01:32:09] Alec Murdoch: Yeah, he was the dean of students, um, but anyway, he reached out to Pawpaw and wanted to talk to him. And, um, I mean, at first we were concerned, you know, why did they, why do they want to talk to him? And, I mean, even, I believe I had Paul come talk to you about that, because we were concerned, well, what are they going to talk to him about? But when Paul and Jim got there, it turns out that it was really just, I mean, they were wanting to make sure he was okay. Would, you know, just make sure he was okay. And I know that, you know, they were aware of the threats, uh, or, or some level of threats. And so, yeah, I mean, it had already been reported to them. [01:33:04] Speaker 2: Keep going, Doc. [01:33:13] Speaker 7: Now, what's your son's name? Paul. Paul? Ma'am, I'm going to call, I need to call some of my family. Okay. Well, do me a favor for me. Whenever you see the officer or the medics, because they're all coming to you, can you put your gun in your vehicle for me? [01:33:34] Speaker ?: Absolutely. [01:33:35] Speaker 7: Okay. Well, we have them come in. Turn on the flashes on your vehicle so they can see you, okay? You got the flashes on for me? I did. Okay. All right. Whenever you see them, put your gun up for me, okay? How old is your son? 22. [01:34:01] Speaker ?: Okay. All right. [01:34:02] Speaker 7: We're getting them out there to you, okay? [01:34:05] Speaker ?: All right. [01:34:06] Speaker 7: All right. [01:34:12] Speaker 2: So, Alec, um, did you call family after you got off the call with the operator? [01:34:21] Alec Murdoch: Yes. [01:34:22] Speaker 2: Who'd you call? [01:34:24] Alec Murdoch: I know I called my brother Randy. I know I called my brother John. And I know I tried to call Roro. Well, Roro's not family, but I called Randy and John. And I, yeah, I called Randy and John. [01:34:38] Speaker 2: And then you just mentioned Roto? [01:34:42] Alec Murdoch: Roro. Rogen. We called him Roro. I called him Roro. [01:34:48] Speaker 2: Why did you try to call Rogen? [01:34:50] Alec Murdoch: Um, I mean, Rogen, Rogen's house was like, I don't know, as the crow flies, maybe two and a half miles, three miles. I mean, Rogen was like family. [01:35:14] Speaker 2: Did you think he was the closest person? [01:35:16] Speaker 5: Yeah. I just wanted somebody, I wanted somebody to be out there. [01:35:24] Speaker 2: Had you seen Rogen's name on Paul's phone in any way that night? [01:35:29] Speaker 4: No. Okay. [01:35:36] Speaker 2: You called, um, did Rogen answer? [01:35:41] Alec Murdoch: No. [01:35:42] Speaker 2: Did you try, try multiple times? [01:35:46] Alec Murdoch: Uh, uh, looking at these records, I believe that I did. But I believe some of those are, um, like the FaceTime calls that are to Rogen. I mean, I'm trying to call him, but I don't believe that was me, actually. I mean, I didn't FaceTime, I mean, I didn't FaceTime people. So, I think that's either me trying to call him and hitting FaceTime, or that's me hitting, um, buttons, or hitting the phone. [01:36:16] Speaker 2: In the, um, State's Exhibit 519, which is the condensed timeline done by, uh, Agent Rudofsky, there's an indication, Alec, that at 10-2209, you opened a group text message from Michael Gunn, stating, she brought the heat for Miami boys. Were you reading text messages from Michael Gunn right after he got off with the 911 operator? [01:36:42] Alec Murdoch: I heard him ask that question. I can promise you, I wasn't reading any text messages. [01:36:55] Speaker 2: There's also an entry, Alec, that says at 10-40 p.m., that you did a Google search or a Safari browser search for Whaley's at Edisto while your wife and son are laying dead on the ground. Did you do that? No. [01:37:16] Alec Murdoch: Whaley's is a restaurant at Edisto that we ate at a lot of times. We got takeout from a lot of times. So, I'm assuming it was in my search history, pulling up the restaurant, and I obviously was trying to call people or dialing, and I, I hit that. I wasn't doing any Google searches. [01:37:35] Speaker 2: And is one of the persons that you dialed that night a, a wedding photographer? [01:37:41] Alec Murdoch: Well, it's a guy named Brian White. I saw that on the call log. Brian White's a guy who was in my, what do you call it, contacts that is a videographer that I've used in cases. I haven't used him in two years. And he's a good guy, but we're not personal friends, so I certainly wasn't calling him. [01:38:05] Speaker 2: So, were you, what does that indicate to you that those actions on your phone, what, how do you account for that? [01:38:16] Alec Murdoch: Obviously, they're unintentional. I mean, I'm doing something with my phone trying to call people, but I'm not trying to call those people. I'm not doing a Google search for any Whaley's restaurant, and I'm certainly not reading any text. [01:38:29] Speaker 6: I want to ask you, um, ladies and gentlemen, I'm going to have you go to the jury room for a break of about 10 minutes. Please do not discuss the case. [01:38:43] Speaker 2: Alec, you've, you've talked about going to Paul's body and Maggie's body. Do you recall getting blood on, on you, on your hands, or any part of you? [01:38:58] Speaker 4: Yes. [01:38:58] Speaker 2: Do you know with, whose blood you would have gotten on you? [01:39:03] Alec Murdoch: I know I got blood on my fingertips. [01:39:13] Speaker 2: Can you differentiate, you know, whether it was Maggie or Paul? [01:39:17] Alec Murdoch: It's probably both. [01:39:22] Speaker 3: Except with so much blood. [01:39:27] Speaker 2: There, um, turns out there was a drop of blood on the steering wheel, the Suburban. Do you know how that got there? [01:39:35] Alec Murdoch: Um, I mean, if it was fresh, I put it there. If it was not fresh, I mean, Maggie drove my car all the time. But, uh, I assume it got there from me touching Maggie and then, and then touching the steering wheel that night. [01:39:52] Speaker 2: And then I think maybe there's possibly blood on this gun? Maybe not? I mean, do you know if you got transferred blood on anything else that night? [01:40:06] Alec Murdoch: Um, if Maggie's blood's on that gun, then I, I put it there. I mean, Maggie, I mean, Maggie didn't really fool with guns other than to put them up. [01:40:16] Speaker 2: There's, um, did you submit to a, a GSR examination that night? [01:40:22] Alec Murdoch: Yeah, yeah, that's what I was talking about earlier, um, and that Brian Barnado testified about. [01:40:28] Speaker 2: Where, where your hands were swabbed? That's right. And then your clothes were collected by, I don't know if it was Agent Owen or someone else? [01:40:37] Alec Murdoch: That's correct. [01:40:37] Speaker 2: And, um, and, um, turns out there's some GSR on your shirt and on your shorts, and, um, did, did you handle this gun? This, this is, uh, yes, this is item 22 that. [01:40:54] Alec Murdoch: Yes, I had, I basically had that gun with me until I put it up against my car, um, when, when the, um, police officer, I think it was Mr. Green, got there. I put it against my car. [01:41:07] Speaker 2: We're, and, and I think Nolan had testified that this is, you know, one of the shotguns Paul liked to use. [01:41:16] Alec Murdoch: It is. [01:41:17] Speaker 2: Was he metic, meticulous about cleaning his guns? [01:41:21] Alec Murdoch: Pawpaw? [01:41:21] Speaker 2: Yeah. [01:41:22] Alec Murdoch: No. Now, when he cleaned it, he was meticulous about it, but, uh, it was far and few between when he actually cleaned them. [01:41:37] Speaker 2: You're, um, your shirt was, went through testing and analysis, and you were, part of this case, provided results of that, were you not? [01:41:56] Alec Murdoch: Yes, sir. I mean, I wouldn't provide it at the time. I've seen them. Right. Get, seen all these records. [01:42:09] Speaker 2: You, um, well, just let me ask you, did you get, on your shirt, high-velocity blood spatter from being within a distance of a shooting, Maggie, or Paul? [01:42:23] Alec Murdoch: There's no way that I had high-velocity blood spatter on me. [01:42:30] Speaker 2: Had you seen reports that said that at one point in time? [01:42:33] Alec Murdoch: I have seen reports that said that. [01:42:38] Speaker 2: Just to be clear, were you anywhere in the vicinity when Paul and Maggie were shot? [01:42:42] Alec Murdoch: I was nowhere near Paul and Maggie when they got shot. [01:42:56] Speaker 2: After SLED collected, uh, your clothing that night, uh, at the main residence at Moselle did, I mean, you remember changing in? You remember what you changed into? [01:43:10] Alec Murdoch: Do I remember? [01:43:11] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. [01:43:12] Alec Murdoch: I know I changed clothes, and I, I've, I've learned since then what I had on, but I don't. [01:43:18] Speaker 2: You don't remember? Okay. [01:43:20] Alec Murdoch: I don't remember that at all. But I understand I had on athletic shorts and a t-shirt. [01:43:27] Speaker 2: Sure. Um, and, and other people have talked about this. I'm not going to repeat it, but did, um, where did you spend the night, or where, where did you go to after leaving Moselle, um, when, when you left for the evening? We, we went to Alameda, too. [01:43:46] Alec Murdoch: We went to my mom and dad's house, and we stayed there. [01:43:49] Speaker 2: And who went with you? [01:43:52] Alec Murdoch: Um, I believe that Buss and Brooklyn and I rode together. John Marvin might have been with us. I know John Marvin stayed at Alameda with us. I just don't know if he rode in the same car we rode in. But I know I rode with Busser in Brooklyn. I know that for a fact. [01:44:13] Speaker 2: And, uh, the, the next morning, um, what'd you do? And I, we're talking about daylight hours on June the 8th. What, what did you do? [01:44:23] Alec Murdoch: We basically got up and came back to Moselle. [01:44:26] Speaker 2: Do you remember roughly what time you got to Moselle? [01:44:30] Alec Murdoch: I don't remember. No, I don't remember what time. You know, there's things I remember about that morning, but I don't remember exactly what time we left. [01:44:40] Speaker 2: And, and, and Alec, we'll get to this in more detail, but during that period of time, is, uh, is it, is it hard to remember times, what time things started and stopped, and how long things took? [01:44:56] Alec Murdoch: I mean, it's definitely hard to remember. Now, looking at these timelines and all these records, I mean, it, it sure helps, but, to, to, to, to just do it off the top of my head is, is very difficult. [01:45:09] Speaker 2: Okay, we'll, we'll get to more of that. Um, When you went back to Moselle, um, on the morning of June the 8th, did you, um, Do you know whether you took a shower there, or took a shower at Almeda, or took a shower at all? [01:45:29] Alec Murdoch: No, I know we took a shower at Moselle. I did not take a shower before I left Almeda. I, we basically got up and went to, um, Moselle. Maggie's mom and dad. [01:45:44] Speaker 2: They were, they were there. [01:45:45] Alec Murdoch: They were coming. I had to tell them, see them. [01:45:53] Speaker 5: We got up, and we got up from Almeda, and we left, and we went to Moselle. [01:46:01] Speaker 2: And you, and you, and do, do you know, do you even recall Sled coming in and searching the house for anything? On the 8th. [01:46:16] Alec Murdoch: I knew that, um, I mean, I knew they were doing it, yeah. Um, I knew they were, I knew they were doing it. But I, I don't remember, I wasn't out in that gun room and all, see all that video and all that, but I knew Sled, yeah, was coming in there. I mean, we made, I mean, we, we, we, we made the house available for them to come in there. So, I mean, I, I can't tell you details, but yeah, I remember it. [01:46:46] Speaker 2: Did, did you at one point just tell Sled that carte blanche to search anywhere, any time? [01:46:52] Alec Murdoch: I told Sled they could do anything, anywhere, anytime that they wanted to. Anything to do with me, my property, my cars, even though I didn't own the cars, I would get my law firm on the cars, I would have the people, they had full, whatever they wanted. [01:47:11] Speaker 2: And, um, did you have any discussions with David Owen or anybody that's led about consenting to General Motors to get data off the car? [01:47:29] Alec Murdoch: So, every time that I talked to David Owens, I would ask him about getting OnStar data and GPS data from phones. [01:47:38] Speaker 2: And why was it important to you to get OnStar data and GPS data from the phones? [01:47:43] Alec Murdoch: And, um, to confirm where I was saying I went, what I did, GPS, you know, at that point in time, I knew that Maggie's phone, um, had been taken. And I knew that my suburban and I knew that my suburban and my phone and Maggie's phone never crossed paths, and that was extremely important to me. And I asked him about it every single time we talked. Every single time. [01:48:19] Speaker 2: And, um, speaking of Maggie's phone, did you, did you know her password to her phone? [01:48:29] Alec Murdoch: Yes, I knew her password. [01:48:31] Speaker 2: Did you know her password to her computer? [01:48:34] Alec Murdoch: Yes. [01:48:34] Speaker 2: Did she know your password? [01:48:36] Alec Murdoch: Yes. [01:48:37] Speaker 2: And when Maggie's phone was located, um, on the side of the road, did, did you provide SLED the password to her phone? [01:48:48] Alec Murdoch: I did. I think I actually provided it to John Marvin, who provided it to SLED, but I'm the one who gave it to him. [01:48:58] Speaker 2: Right. And, um, your knowledge that, um, Maggie's, have these location services on her phone, she used them frequently. [01:49:16] Alec Murdoch: All the time. One of Maggie's things that she liked to do was, there's that app called Find My Friends, that you can see what other people are doing and they can see what you're doing. Maggie loved me, bus, Pawpaw, Brooklyn, um, grandma, Papti, Marion, uh, the three girls, uh, Lizzie, and there were a few others, but the people that were closest to her, she had them all in her phone, and she loved to, to, to look at that phone and see where people are. And she loved to surprise you, like, let's say you're at, um, Walmart, she looks on there and, and she'd love to text you and get me a TV from Walmart or Walmart or something, you know, like, she, she, she followed you and see where you were. She used it all the time. And so, you know, I just knew that there would be GPS data on Maggie's phone. [01:50:25] Speaker 2: Alec, when, when you're being interviewed on the night of June 7th and again on June the 10th, what was your understanding, understanding as to why they, they were interviewing you? Why were you being interviewed? [01:50:43] Alec Murdoch: On June the 7th and June the 10th? [01:50:45] Speaker 2: What's the question again? What is his understanding of why SLED was interviewing him on the night of June the 7th and again on June the 10th? [01:51:02] Speaker 6: And the basis for the objection. [01:51:04] Speaker 8: 401 and 402, Your Honor. [01:51:06] Speaker 6: What do you mean? [01:51:08] Speaker 8: Uh, relevant, Your Honor. His understanding is, is not important. What he said is important, Your Honor. [01:51:14] Speaker 6: Response? [01:51:15] Speaker 2: Well, I, I can, it goes to his, you know, his, follow, it, it goes to his state of mind. I mean, that's, that's what it goes to. The objection is sustained. Did, um, why wasn't it, why wasn't it important to you to be able to get data from the suburban, data from your phone, and data from Maggie's phone? [01:51:43] Alec Murdoch: I knew, at that point in time, I knew since I was the person who found Pawpaw and Mags, that I was a suspect. I mean, they kept talking about this circle, um, but, I mean, I, I knew that it was very important for me to find that, to get that. [01:52:06] Speaker 2: And, and what was your belief as to that information? What would it have done for you? [01:52:12] Alec Murdoch: There's no question in there that it would demonstrate that I couldn't have done this. [01:52:18] Speaker 2: And when was the data from General Motors, off that suburban, finally obtained? [01:52:32] Alec Murdoch: It was either this past Saturday or the Saturday before that, according to what, uh, was said in this courtroom. Was said in this courtroom? [01:52:43] Speaker 2: During this trial? [01:52:44] Alec Murdoch: Absolutely. [01:52:45] Speaker 2: And, um, to your knowledge, was GPS data ever able to be located off Maggie's phone? [01:52:57] Alec Murdoch: I mean, not, I mean, not just to my knowledge, it was not able to be gotten. You know, the testimony was in here that, that it, that it couldn't, that it couldn't be gotten. It only went back to, um, June the 9th. Everything before that was erased. On Maggie's phone. [01:53:21] Speaker 2: Now when, um, starting June the 8th, when that, Moselle, did a lot of people come to support you, be with you, on June the 8th? [01:53:40] Alec Murdoch: On June the 8th? Yes, sir. Like the next day? Right. Yes, sir. [01:53:45] Speaker 2: A lot of people. And, and you mentioned your, Maggie's parents and, and family came as well? [01:53:51] Speaker ?: Yes, sir. [01:53:52] Speaker 2: Um, from, from that moment, June 8th, when folks, family, um, came to, um, Moselle and, and you met with them, were, were you left alone by any of your family members the rest of that week? No. [01:54:16] Speaker ?: No. I mean, I, I, I was attached to Buster. [01:54:20] Alec Murdoch: No, I mean I was attached to Buster at the Hill. But, I mean, no, I wasn't. [01:54:43] Speaker 2: What happened on June the 10th, besides being interviewed by Celeste? [01:54:49] Alec Murdoch: My dad died. My dad passed. [01:54:55] Speaker 2: Where did you stay, and with whom did you stay, on the night of June the 8th, the night of June the 9th, the night of June the 10th? [01:55:06] Alec Murdoch: The 8th, yes sir. Starting on the 8th, I stayed with Buster every night. I stayed with Buster, and as long as Brooklyn was there, I stayed with Buster and Brooklyn. But we stayed with – I'm pretty sure that's beginning on the 8th. I know the 7th we stayed at Almeida, and I believe on the 8th we started staying at John Marvin and Lizzie's at Greenfield. [01:55:40] Speaker 2: And how far is Greenfield from Almeida? [01:55:43] Alec Murdoch: Well, that's the crow flies. I mean, it's no distance. It's less than five minutes. It's probably a couple of – a few minutes away. [01:55:50] Speaker 2: And who stayed there? Did John Marvin and his wife Liz stay there as well? [01:55:55] Alec Murdoch: Yes, John and Lizzie. All right, John and Lizzie stayed there, and their kids. Bus and Brooklyn and I. I know Bubba and Maymay stayed there. Well, Lizzie's mom and daddy stayed there. And my daddy's best friend and his wife came in there. I believe they came before my daddy passed. I know they came after he passed and stayed there. [01:56:35] Speaker 2: And that – how many nights do you recall staying there at Greenfield? [01:56:44] Alec Murdoch: So, I stayed at Greenfield. The 7th was a Monday. I stayed Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday at Greenfield. I know that for a fact. [01:56:55] Speaker 2: and the Maggie Paul's funeral was Saturday right now I heard that in this [01:57:02] Alec Murdoch: courtroom say it was Saturday but to the memorial services if you know was on Friday I was on Friday I know that for a fact too and then your father's funerals [01:57:18] Speaker 3: on Sunday my father's funeral was on Sunday and it was my was my father's [01:57:24] Alec Murdoch: funeral I forget the term [01:57:36] Speaker 5: Sunday that's when that's when we put up off the mags that's when we buried him we didn't bury him when we had disservice on Friday so I don't think they were done that's when we buried them along with my dad on Sunday [01:58:08] Speaker 2: and Alec what did you do with the following week that Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday [01:58:16] Alec Murdoch: starting to win now [01:58:22] Speaker 2: so the day after your dad's funeral [01:58:25] Alec Murdoch: all right Monday I went to grandma and papa T's Somerville at some point Monday in the afternoon you mean what did I do when I got up that morning just yeah where did you stay we stayed at Greenfield Sunday night so we woke up at Greenfield on Monday [01:58:46] Speaker 2: so and Sunday night you were with the same family members your brother Brooklyn and Buster and [01:58:54] Alec Murdoch: that's right and Liz and Lizzy and Lizzy's mom and dad and I believe Donnie and Paula were still there but I can't remember when they left [01:59:03] Speaker 2: and then you went to Somerville with whom [01:59:07] Alec Murdoch: I believe I went to Somerville by myself but I know Buster in the car by myself I can't remember Buster and I rode together but I think we might have had separate cars we probably we probably did ride together that first day I don't remember but I know I went to Somerville and Buster was in Somerville with me with grandma and papa T [01:59:28] Speaker 2: and Somerville is where Maggie's parents live [01:59:34] Alec Murdoch: that's right that's um Maggie's mom and dad his grandma Maggie's mom and grandma and Maggie's dad's papa T [01:59:41] Speaker 2: and did you stay with them for a few days in Somerville [01:59:45] Alec Murdoch: I stayed with them longer in Somerville yeah I stayed with them um we stayed in Somerville Monday night Tuesday night Tuesday night Wednesday night and then we went to Greenville [02:00:02] Speaker 2: um and and what was in Greenville [02:00:11] Alec Murdoch: um my niece [02:00:18] Speaker 4: that was um [02:00:21] Alec Murdoch: she was having a baby and Maggie had just been she's just been so excited [02:00:36] Speaker 4: so [02:00:39] Alec Murdoch: she's just so proud of those girls she was so excited about the baby and so the baby being born just became such a such a [02:00:59] Speaker 3: big deal to me [02:01:01] Speaker 2: so was the baby born [02:01:05] Speaker 3: yeah [02:01:05] Speaker 2: and you went up [02:01:07] Speaker 3: baby born beautiful little baby girl beautiful little mom [02:01:12] Speaker 2: and then did you go up up to the lake after that [02:01:23] Alec Murdoch: we did well I mean we stayed this lake um Kiwi that y'all heard about is really close to Greenville and so when I say we went to Greenville we really went to Lake Kiwi but we went up there because you know and and and um when she had the baby I I want to say the baby might have gotten born shortly after we got there like Thursday but it I think it was Saturday before we could go and see them and and see my niece and see the baby so you know I mean that's where we went was to Lake Kiwi but they live in Greenville [02:02:07] Speaker 2: on the morning of June 16th I think that was a Wednesday I think that's a Wednesday um where'd you wake up [02:02:28] Alec Murdoch: Somerville [02:02:29] Speaker 2: did you ever go to Almeda on that day [02:02:32] Alec Murdoch: on Wednesday [02:02:34] Speaker 2: yes sir I don't I don't believe so did you go to Almeda at 630 in the morning on the [02:02:44] Alec Murdoch: I know for a fact that I didn't go to Almeda at 630 in the morning I was in Somerville did I didn't go to Almeda at any point early in the morning I was in Somerville and I'm not positive about this but I know those I know I know they did I know some of those records they have it was sometime before I left Somerville [02:03:14] Speaker 2: did you did you ever take a during that week let's just start with that that week following your dad's funeral did you ever take a tarp into the house at Almeda a tarp a blue tarp [02:03:31] Alec Murdoch: the week following my dad's funeral [02:03:34] Speaker 2: yes [02:03:34] Alec Murdoch: no I did not [02:03:35] Speaker 2: there's been I don't even know where it is in any of these boxes but this blue rain jacket have you ever seen that before [02:03:50] Alec Murdoch: never seen it before never touched it don't know anything about it [02:03:55] Speaker 2: did you did you ever remember taking a tarp at any point in time over the house of Almeda [02:04:07] Alec Murdoch: no I don't remember it I don't remember taking a tarp over there but you know I mean Shelly's got something in her mind about that and there may have been some point but I certainly don't remember it and it certainly wasn't any time around my dad's funeral or the weeks following [02:04:30] Speaker 2: I think we we we talked briefly about about your recollection of times and and I just want to play Doug from States Exhibit 517 which is the August 11th interview starting at 5 minutes and 52 seconds you can pull that clip up and and I want you to listen to this okay [02:05:15] Alec Murdoch: tell me again what it is [02:05:18] Speaker 2: it's August 11th interview starting at 5 minutes and 52 seconds [02:05:22] Alec Murdoch: all right [02:05:23] Speaker 2: going to go to 5 minutes and 52 seconds [02:05:38] Speaker 9: who was at your house when you left and what time did you go to the office we have been who was who was at your house when you left and what time did you go to the office [02:06:08] Speaker 10: we have been to a ball game that weekend I don't remember exactly what time it would have been somewhere between 8.30 and 9.30 probably 10 o'clock maybe at the latest something like that [02:06:31] Speaker 2: Al on this tape were you being asked when you went to work on the on the 7th [02:06:39] Alec Murdoch: yes [02:06:40] Speaker 2: and you said 8.30 to 9.30 in the morning [02:06:43] Alec Murdoch: and I think said 10 o'clock at the latest [02:06:46] Speaker 2: is that correct [02:06:48] Alec Murdoch: no it wasn't [02:06:49] Speaker 2: now I've seen all these records what does it look like what time you went to work on the on the 7th [02:06:56] Alec Murdoch: a little afternoon [02:06:57] Speaker 2: all right if we'll go to the Doug States Exhibit 243 which is the June 10 interview [02:07:09] Alec Murdoch: you know Mr. Griffin on that same date though I also if you play that thing and I don't know if it's right then but if you play that further I also told them the best way to see exactly when I went in that door is to go and get my information from my law firm and I told them that they you know we have a you know how things are electronic now where you don't have a key you have a key card and you have a key card in your wallet and so when you use it it creates a like all this other stuff a digital footprint and I told David Owens that he could go get it from my office [02:07:47] Speaker 2: and was that a common response of yours when you were asking about specific times that you would give them your best estimate but you would point them to where they could find the most accurate data [02:08:00] Alec Murdoch: yes sir [02:08:01] Speaker 2: you did that more than once [02:08:02] Alec Murdoch: yes sir [02:08:03] Speaker 2: so if we've got the June 10th interview which is States Exhibit 243 and Doug I'd like to go to 9 minutes and 59 seconds and here you're being asked when did Paul arrive at Moselle [02:08:19] Speaker 9: roughly what time in the afternoon [02:08:24] Speaker 10: you know I would think it would be somewhere in the 5 o'clock range a little bit it was broad daylight when we were it wasn't dusk, dark, or late you know and we rode you know we just rode around we rode around [02:08:38] Speaker 2: so did you tell him on June 10th that Paul got there at 5 o'clock time appearing [02:08:45] Alec Murdoch: yes sir yes sir I obviously did [02:08:47] Speaker 2: and was that incorrect [02:08:49] Alec Murdoch: yes sir it was incorrect [02:08:52] Speaker 2: and what time did you looking at the records now what time did it look like Paul actually got there [02:08:58] Alec Murdoch: and looking at the records it's clear that he got there sometime around 7 o'clock [02:09:04] Speaker 2: did some point in time you have a conversation with Shelly Smith about you know how long you were over at Almeda on the night of June the 7th do you remember [02:09:17] Alec Murdoch: you know I don't distinctly remember having a conversation with her about how long I was over I was over there but I know that I told Shelly Smith that SLED was going to come and talk to her and that I'd appreciate it if she would talk to them and that she just needed to tell them the truth [02:09:39] Speaker 2: did you take extra care not to talk to people that you knew SLED would be talking to [02:09:49] Alec Murdoch: absolutely [02:09:51] Speaker 2: after this [02:09:53] Alec Murdoch: boat wreck that you've heard so much talk about in this courtroom there were social media newspaper I mean it went deeper than that but I mean there was so many so much talk about how I you know fixed witnesses and structured the investigation just things that were totally false that were absolutely baseless but it was said repeatedly repeatedly and it was reported repeatedly how I'd done this and this witness and influenced this police officer and all these things so I wasn't taking any chances I want to [02:10:47] Speaker 2: ask you about you can take that down done thank you ask you about the August August August 11th interview with David Owen at the sled office in I think here in Walterburn do you remember that [02:11:06] Alec Murdoch: August 11th absolutely [02:11:09] Speaker 2: had you requested that meeting [02:11:12] Alec Murdoch: I've been requesting what I'd really been requesting is some information I've been begging David Owens to come meet with me and specifically [02:11:27] Speaker 5: I wanted [02:11:34] Alec Murdoch: grandma and papa tea there were so many questions that I couldn't answer and I've been begging him to meet with me and to meet with grandma and papa tea I've been begging him for weeks [02:11:52] Speaker 3: and weeks [02:11:55] Speaker 2: and did when you went into the meeting on August 11th did you think that's what it was for to give you an update [02:12:06] Alec Murdoch: yes [02:12:08] Speaker 2: and at the conclusion of the meeting they let you know that you're their prime suspect [02:12:19] Speaker 8: I'll [02:12:31] Speaker 2: rephrase it by the conclusion of the meeting did they make it known to you that you were suspect oh [02:12:43] Alec Murdoch: there's no question about that absolutely now he used a lot I mean you hear it talk about how I'm in this circle and he can't get me out and this and that but there's no doubt in my mind there was no question in my mind what was going on on [02:13:01] Speaker ?: on [02:13:01] Speaker 2: and the and during that meeting did they show you the snap chat video of you trying to stand up the fruit tree [02:13:16] Alec Murdoch: yes [02:13:18] Speaker 2: and were you questioned about what clothing you were wearing [02:13:21] Alec Murdoch: and I can't remember this I can't remember if he showed me the whole video or he showed me a picture of it but I was definitely showed that information I was definitely shown those clothes in that meeting on August the 11th [02:13:34] Speaker 2: and what clothes were you wearing [02:13:35] Alec Murdoch: the same ones you see in [02:13:37] Speaker 2: and do you remember what kind of pants [02:13:41] Alec Murdoch: it was khaki pants [02:13:43] Speaker 2: and what kind of shirt [02:13:44] Alec Murdoch: it's a button down short sleeve button down I call it a dress shirt but short sleeve button down dress shirt [02:13:54] Speaker 2: like like shirt you got there but just like [02:13:58] Alec Murdoch: this but short sleeve and it was colored [02:13:59] Speaker 2: and what color was [02:14:01] Alec Murdoch: blue blue with some blue stripes [02:14:04] Speaker 2: and were you questioned about when you changed out of those clothes [02:14:08] Alec Murdoch: I was [02:14:10] Speaker 2: and did you have a follow up did you have a conversation after that meeting was led with Blanca about what you were wearing that day [02:14:23] Alec Murdoch: absolutely and [02:14:25] Speaker 2: what was the purpose of the conversation with Blanca [02:14:27] Alec Murdoch: well they made an issue about that in that meeting and I asked Blanca about those clothes that that I had on earlier that day [02:14:43] Speaker 2: do you ask her specifically about the blue shirt [02:14:47] Alec Murdoch: I asked her specifically about all the clothes what I asked Blanca about specifically was did she remember getting my clothes after she came back when she came back to Moselle did she remember getting my clothes specifically what I asked her [02:15:06] Speaker 2: and why were you asking her those questions [02:15:10] Alec Murdoch: because on August the 11th they made an issue about me wearing still wearing those clothes not having changed clothes when I was in that snapchat video so that's why I went to Blanca [02:15:25] Speaker 2: did they ever ask you on August the 11th whether they asked you for those clothes can you produce the clothes did they ask you that [02:15:35] Alec Murdoch: no they didn't [02:15:36] Speaker 2: have they ever asked you for those clothes [02:15:37] Alec Murdoch: no as far as my understanding goes my clothes were never an issue in this case until y'all figured out as my lawyers figured out that there was no blood spatter on me [02:15:58] Speaker 8: sir is that objection your honor [02:16:01] Speaker 6: 401 [02:16:04] Speaker 8: 402 and beyond speculation mr. [02:16:10] Speaker 6: griffin [02:16:10] Speaker 2: it's a matter of public record it's a matter of public record what is the issues with the shirt and the blood test it's a matter of public record filed in this case yes [02:16:22] Speaker 6: the objection is over [02:16:26] Alec Murdoch: I'm well aware that my clothes never became an issue in this case until my lawyers proved [02:16:40] Speaker ?: proved [02:16:40] Alec Murdoch: that this blood spatter that they said I had on my shirt for my wife and my son was a lie and that there was no blood on my shirt and once they filed the documents and they proved that that was a lie all of a sudden the clothes I was wearing back on that day became an issue and that's in the weeks leading up to this trial [02:17:14] Speaker 2: now Alec after the Maggie and Paul were murdered on June 7th and 8th where did you stay and where did you keep clothes [02:17:30] Alec Murdoch: say that again please [02:17:33] Speaker 2: where were you staying overnight let me ask you this did you ever spend another night at Moselle after June 7th [02:17:39] Alec Murdoch: never spent another night at Moselle [02:17:41] Speaker 2: why not [02:17:42] Speaker 3: I couldn't I don't want to [02:18:01] Speaker 2: where were you staying when we talked about the days and weeks the week afterwards but where were you staying when you got back from the lake Kiwi and Greenville [02:18:20] Alec Murdoch: I stayed when I got back from Greenville so that would be the first week until my dad's funeral so that would be the second week I know Bus and I stayed with Grandma and Papa T as much as I could you know I stayed with I stayed with my brother Randy a lot I stayed with my brother John a lot Bus and I stayed at Edisto a little bit but at the beginning I stayed with I really stayed with either my brother Randy and his wife Christy or I stayed with my brother John and his wife Lizzy and basically at that time Buster was doing excuse me Buster was Buster worked for Wild Wing at that time and they had been so kind to him and gave him they let him be off just for a ridiculous amount of time they were so good to him so he stayed with me when he had to go back to work he would stay at my brother John and Lizzy's because it was close so I would stay with Randy and Christy in Hampton when Buster was there I would almost always go to John and Lizzy's when Buster was there I would go to John and Lizzy's sometimes when Buster wasn't there but I was Johnny Parker one of my partners had a guest house his mother-in-law had lived in when she was sick that's really it's right at the foot of Randy's drive it's 100 yards 70 yards from Randy's house and I was going to move into I was going to move into that house until we figured out where I could live so I had clothes there I had clothes at Randy's I had clothes at John Marvin's I had clothes at Chichesse which is I think you heard Buster talk about Chichesse's like where we went to the river and I had clothes there I had clothes in Somerville and I still had clothes at Moselle [02:21:16] Speaker 2: so your clothes yes sir [02:21:21] Speaker 6: last question [02:21:22] Speaker 2: no this so were your clothes spread out a lot of different places [02:21:30] Speaker 6: yes we'll break for lights and return at in an hour and 15 minutes [02:21:40] Speaker 2: Mr. Murdoch I want to go to June the 7th 2021 and you're meeting with Gene Secondger do you remember meeting Ms. Secondger [02:21:54] Alec Murdoch: I do [02:21:55] Speaker 2: and what was the meeting about [02:21:57] Alec Murdoch: Gene came up to me and asked me previously Annette Griswold had come to me and asked me about the fee check in the Ferris case and Gene was coming to me and saying that she was following up on that if she didn't she wouldn't be doing her job and asked me some questions [02:22:25] Speaker 2: which I [02:22:28] Alec Murdoch: understood [02:22:28] Speaker 2: briefly the Ferris fee what originally happened to it the PMPED portion of the Ferris fee [02:22:39] Alec Murdoch: me originally [02:22:41] Speaker 2: yes sir did it come to you directly [02:22:45] Alec Murdoch: yes [02:22:46] Speaker 2: should have come to you directly [02:22:47] Alec Murdoch: no [02:22:48] Speaker 2: did when when miss seconder asked you about the where the fee was what did you tell her [02:23:00] Alec Murdoch: I can't remember exactly what I told her the conversation got interrupted very quickly but I told Jeannie that the funds were in Chris Wilson's account and nothing to worry about I didn't know where the mix up came from [02:23:18] Speaker 2: what was your level of concern about Ms. Seconder's inquiry to you on June the 7 [02:23:26] Alec Murdoch: there was some level of concern because she's asking me about money that I took that I wasn't supposed to have so certainly I had some level of concern but it it wasn't it wasn't a very big concern as you heard testimony earlier at some point Annette Griswold had sent Chris Wilson an email something to the effect of Ellick thinks he has more expenses or something like that seeking financial documents from Chris Wilson when Chris Wilson got I wasn't copied on that but when Chris Wilson got that Chris Wilson called me up and he's like you know what is this all about Pardon [02:24:23] Speaker 8: I said objection rules 801 and 802 [02:24:26] Speaker 6: response [02:24:29] Speaker 2: your honor I'm not asking for what Chris Wilson said and I'll move on I accept the objection were you concerned about Chris Wilson opening his trust account records to your law firm [02:24:44] Alec Murdoch: no I was not concerned about that at all [02:24:47] Speaker 2: and why were you not concerned [02:24:49] Alec Murdoch: I knew that one of the people that Chris Wilson as you heard Chris Wilson and I were very close we talked every day I did work with him all the time and I mean he was one the people closest to me in the whole world I knew everything about him and I knew he was going through one of his partners and he and his partner had split up a partner and an associate had moved to a firm in Charleston the partner was going through a divorce and the wife of the partner was trying to get Chris Wilson's trust documents in that case to find out money her husband got didn't have anything to do with Chris and I or anything it totally had to do with that but I knew that Chris Wilson was not going to send any financial documents to my law firm at least at that time and at least not any time soon so while I'm sure it registered with me that I got to deal with this at that particular time it wasn't anything that was a big deal [02:26:03] Speaker 2: was there an immediate urgency to the situation on June the seventh [02:26:07] Alec Murdoch: no [02:26:08] Speaker 2: and I believe there's second you testified about your conversation with her you learned that your dad was going back in the hospital [02:26:20] Alec Murdoch: that's correct there was a text I can't remember if that text came from my brother Randy or my brother John but they were the ones that were taking my dad back to the hospital that day and whichever one was with him believe it John was with him at the hospital but I know Randy was with him at some treatments it 's in those documents bottom line is we got a text saying we knew my dad was really sick he had cancer and he couldn't breathe and there was a big issue about whether his inability to breathe was coming from an obstruction caused by the cancer which was the worst case scenario and that's what it ended up being ultimately and that's what he died from but this particular text was saying okay we're putting him back in the hospital the doctor thinks it's pneumonia which was you know I mean pneumonia is never a good thing but when compared to cancer at that time pneumonia that was a good thing to learn that [02:27:23] Speaker 2: on the seventh where the information you had did I mean were you believed at that time the prognosis was pretty positive for your father [02:27:33] Alec Murdoch: well it better than the alternative I'm not going to say it was good but it was better than the alternative and what we previously thought it was it didn't stay good very long but it definitely was better [02:27:49] Speaker 2: do [02:27:49] Speaker ?: do do [02:27:49] Speaker 2: you know whether or not you you told Ms. Secondary that your dad's condition was terminal on the seventh do you remember whether you said that or not [02:28:00] Alec Murdoch: no I wouldn't have said that at that time and what I you know Jeannie as soon as the thing comes through that my dad's going in the hospital Jeannie and I as you heard I mean she stopped the meeting we my dad's going in the hospital and the very next day we learned that he's terminal and I'm I'm just sure that a year or the amount of time that's gone by Jeannie assumed she was terminal he was terminal [02:28:35] Speaker 8: Speculation you're on [02:28:38] Alec Murdoch: Jackson is over ruled [02:28:40] Speaker 2: Mr. Murdoch the on June the seventh did you believe that your financial house of cards was about to crumble [02:28:56] Alec Murdoch: on June the seventh [02:28:59] Speaker 2: yes sir [02:28:59] Alec Murdoch: absolutely not [02:29:00] Speaker 2: had you had and I think there's documented evidence state introduced had you had reached out to Russell Lafitte at Palmetto State Bank about extending a line of credit on the Moselle property [02:29:15] Alec Murdoch: I had reached out to him I can't remember the date of that text but it was fairly recently I had reached out to Russell [02:29:24] Speaker 2: and on June seventh did you have equity in the Moselle property that or you and Maggie had equity in that Moselle property [02:29:37] Alec Murdoch: sure and I mean Moselle was fully in Maggie's name so but yes there was equity in Moselle in looking at the documents that had been used there was a million eight hundred thousand dollars owed there was an appraisal for 3.3 million without timber value and so on seventeen hundred acres you know I don't know what the timber value was but if you just set a thousand dollars an acre that'd be another million something dollars in value over and above the appraisal I doubt the timber value was that high I'm just using that as an example but if it was five hundred it'd be another eight hundred thousand dollars so you know there was several million dollars in equity in that Moselle property [02:30:33] Speaker 2: all right and did did you have equity in the Edistow beach house [02:30:39] Alec Murdoch: yes [02:30:40] Speaker 2: and around June 7th how much equity did you have in the Edistow beach house [02:30:44] Alec Murdoch: if I remember the records correctly there was about two hundred and fifty thousand dollars um owed on that house and whatever the value was at the time I think I I think there's a contract for just under a million dollars so seven hundred and something thousand dollars [02:31:06] Speaker 2: did um Maggie's death make it more difficult to obtain financing immediately after the murder around June 7th eight [02:31:23] Alec Murdoch: Maggie's yes [02:31:29] Speaker 2: how so [02:31:30] Alec Murdoch: because the entire Moselle property was a hundred percent in Maggie's name the Edistow property was fifty percent in Maggie's name so I was only a half owner so with Maggie all I had to do was get her to sign the documents which she always did I mean she didn't question finances so I mean she signed the papers when Maggie wasn't here there there was a state issues I could I couldn't go and sign the papers like I would normally go and get a loan so I couldn't [02:32:19] Speaker 2: on was there hearing scheduled in the voting lawsuit where you were defendant set for that week [02:32:37] Alec Murdoch: yes [02:32:37] Speaker 2: do you remember what day it was scheduled for [02:32:40] Alec Murdoch: well I mean I've heard the testimony and I knew I'm sure I knew at the time it was June the tenth Thursday June the tenth [02:32:47] Speaker 2: what was your level of concern about that hearing coming up on June the tenth [02:32:59] Alec Murdoch: about that hearing [02:33:00] Speaker 2: yes sir [02:33:01] Alec Murdoch: my level of concern about that hearing was about the venue motion that was coming up which now what do you mean by [02:33:17] Speaker 2: venue [02:33:17] Alec Murdoch: the venue motion is venue is where a civil lawsuit is pending and so there's laws and rules that govern where you can bring a case there's laws and rules that govern how certain parties a defendant or a plaintiff can go about trying to move it from one place to another so in this case the plaintiffs the beach family had filed suit in Hampton County Parker's was trying to move venue to Beaufort County and I wanted the case to stay in Hampton County and really that was my only thought about I wasn't doing the legal work on those I was a party in that case I wasn't Danny Henderson was primarily representing me personally John Tiller and Amy Bauer were representing me personally and Dawes Cook was representing me personally and those were the guys that were doing the legal work so you know I wasn't actually doing that work but what I was concerned about was the venue motion I had already done what I had to do for the financial motion and Danny Henderson was on me about getting him a financial statement because [02:34:52] Speaker 2: let's stop so there was a motion to compel and seek a lot of financial records from you was that correct? absolutely and were you concerned that your house financial house was going to be opened up for the world as a result of that hearing? [02:35:10] Alec Murdoch: no I've been a plaintiff's lawyer like Mr. Tinsley that sat here we do the same exact thing in my law firm the guys in my law firm are some of the best lawyers that I've ever known and they're definitely some of the best lawyers in the state handling some of the biggest cases that have ever gone on in this state in my 27 years of practicing plaintiffs always are trying to look and get financial documents of corporate defendants of you know those type things in my 27 years I've never been able to get a judge to order anything more than a net worth statement prior to getting into a phase at trial so early on in the case I am not aware of I personally have never despite trying repeatedly have never been able to get a judge to order the kind of information that Mark Tinsley was saying he was seeking [02:36:23] Speaker 2: were you working on a document before that upcoming hearing yes and what was that [02:36:30] Alec Murdoch: a financial statement a financial statement lists your assets and your liabilities [02:36:35] Speaker 2: and had you reached out to Jeannie's second year later that the day on the 7th to get your current balance of your retirement account [02:36:43] Alec Murdoch: you know I don't remember doing that but that certainly be something that I did because I know I'd have to have that for that financial statement and the document that I prepared was what Mark Ball talked about that he found later in my office and it was handwritten ready to be typed up by you know because of the charges against Paul I was so I kept everything very close in the civil case it was Danny in his office it was doing it and I had that document prepared handwritten in the neatest handwriting that I could make because a secretary other than mine or paralegal other than mine was going to be the person who was going to put those that financial information into the final document and that's the document that Mark Ball talked about that he found on my desk whenever it was that he found it so that was what was going to be if necessary what was going to be used Thursday [02:37:53] Speaker 2: Jury's heard about testimony of you stealing client funds did you do that [02:38:06] Alec Murdoch: I did [02:38:07] Speaker 2: did you steal or divert that Ferris fee away from the law firm [02:38:15] Alec Murdoch: I did [02:38:16] Speaker 2: how did you get in such a financial predicament that led you to steal money that wasn't yours [02:38:32] Alec Murdoch: no I'm not quite sure how I let myself get where I got but it came from you know I battled that addiction for so many years I was spending so much money on pills I got in a spot I couldn't [02:38:55] Speaker 2: now what type of addiction are you referring to [02:38:58] Alec Murdoch: my addiction is to is to opiate painkillers [02:39:05] Speaker 2: and when [02:39:07] Alec Murdoch: specifically oxycodone oxycontin [02:39:09] Speaker 2: and when did you first become dependent or addicted to opioids [02:39:15] Alec Murdoch: oxycodone or opiates in general [02:39:19] Speaker 2: opiates in general [02:39:20] Alec Murdoch: I'm not quite sure of the exact date but I can give you a time frame I hurt my knee really bad playing football in college and I had a knee surgery and the medical science at the time was such that the surgery didn't work bottom line so it it just didn't last so within a couple of years of that I started having a lot of knee troubles and ultimately I had to have a couple of surgeries but the last surgery I had was I think around 2002 or 2004 and I think it was around four so I would have started taking hydrocodone a couple of years before that and I took hydrocodone got addicted to that very quickly I continued taking that for a long time I would I'd force myself off of it wean myself off of it I'd go back to it I battled that for a long time and after a while I was taking so much of that I moved on to oxycodone and you know I'm guessing that was around 2000 that transition was around 2008 9 something like that and of course you know it just escalates escalates escalates [02:40:59] Speaker 2: did you receive treatment or go to detox on occasion [02:41:05] Alec Murdoch: I did [02:41:06] Speaker 2: how many times [02:41:07] Alec Murdoch: that I went to detox or that I detoxed [02:41:11] Speaker 2: well let's start with going to a detox facility [02:41:16] Alec Murdoch: I've been to a detox facility three times [02:41:20] Speaker 2: when was the first time [02:41:22] Alec Murdoch: December of 2017 and [02:41:32] Speaker 2: before December 2017 had you tried to detox at home [02:41:39] Alec Murdoch: I tried to detox every way I could [02:41:44] Speaker 2: when Maggie [02:41:49] Alec Murdoch: would help me go ahead [02:41:50] Speaker 2: yeah when you when you went in to a was it inpatient facility [02:41:57] Alec Murdoch: the detoxes the formal detoxes that I went to [02:42:01] Speaker 2: in December 2017 [02:42:03] Alec Murdoch: yes it was in it was inpatient and all three formal detoxes that I've done have been at the same facility called Sunrise Detox in Atlanta Georgia [02:42:14] Speaker 2: and very good [02:42:16] Alec Murdoch: facility [02:42:16] Speaker 2: jury's heard an audio tape of a telephone conference with sled agents was that where you were during that meeting with Mr. Harpootley and I that's [02:42:26] Speaker 4: correct [02:42:26] Speaker 2: in Atlanta how long of a stay is that did you stay [02:42:37] Alec Murdoch: seven days is the opiate detox program [02:42:43] Speaker 2: and is there difference between detox and rehab [02:42:46] Alec Murdoch: yes [02:42:48] Speaker 2: what's the difference [02:42:49] Alec Murdoch: detox is the act of getting the drugs out of your system getting to the point where okay there is no longer a physical dependency all right and that's a big difference than the rest of the dependency but the physical dependency is supposed to be gone after seven days so in other words the I mean there's so many things opiate withdrawal is I mean it's hard but supposedly at the end of seven days you don't have those physical symptoms like I don't want to be too graphic but you're sick you throw up you you have terrible diarrhea you sweat like you're running a marathon you can't hold your legs still you can't lay down now like what I'm talking about the legs moving that goes away after about 24 hours so you know after about 24 hours you can lay down again and maybe sleep some but you sweat you throw up I mean you just have there's so many issues but after seven days those are supposed to be over that's what detox is the detoxification of your body [02:44:21] Speaker 2: and what's rehab [02:44:22] Alec Murdoch: rehab is the period that you go to learn how to stay off you know you're supposedly off after detox rehab is where you get help staying off [02:44:35] Speaker 2: and before September 2021 had you ever gone to that second stage of rehab [02:44:41] Alec Murdoch: no [02:44:41] Speaker 2: so in June excuse me December 2017 how long did it take you to relapse once you got home from detox [02:44:50] Alec Murdoch: not long at all I mean you're still going through and though this physical dependency is gone you still have I mean you're still so sick I mean you just [02:45:01] Speaker 2: is that something you've been battling for quite some time [02:45:06] Alec Murdoch: as long as I can remember [02:45:08] Speaker 2: how long have you been drug free opioid free [02:45:17] Alec Murdoch: 535 days and I'm very proud of that [02:45:21] Speaker 2: I want to ask you questions about Labor Day weekend 2021 you remember being confronted by your law firm [02:45:35] Alec Murdoch: sure I do [02:45:36] Speaker 2: and what were you confronted about [02:45:39] Alec Murdoch: stealing money [02:45:41] Speaker 2: and did you admit your misconduct to your law partners [02:45:50] Alec Murdoch: well to one of my law partners and one of my and my brother and my law partners Danny and Randy [02:45:57] Speaker 2: yeah [02:45:59] Alec Murdoch: I mean [02:46:00] Speaker 2: did [02:46:01] Alec Murdoch: admit it and they [02:46:03] Speaker 2: they learned about a fake forage account did you admit the fake forage account [02:46:08] Alec Murdoch: yes [02:46:10] Speaker 2: I did and did you tell them about your opioid struggles opioid addiction [02:46:18] Alec Murdoch: I told them about my addiction yes sir [02:46:21] Speaker 2: to your knowledge were any of your law partners aware of your addiction [02:46:27] Alec Murdoch: not just to my knowledge I'm certain that they were not aware of my addiction [02:46:31] Speaker 2: how would you characterize your opioid use or addiction severe moderate then or now no in 2020 2021 I mean [02:46:48] Alec Murdoch: I don't know how I would characterize it then after going to rehab and learning more of the things I've learned really talking to addicts about experiences I mean I will tell you that my addiction was extremely extremely bad [02:47:09] Speaker 2: how were you able to function or were you able to function [02:47:12] Alec Murdoch: yes [02:47:13] Speaker 4: I was able to function [02:47:14] Speaker 2: you were able to practice law [02:47:17] Speaker 4: yes [02:47:18] Speaker 2: and were you successful practicing law while you were addicted to opioids [02:47:23] Alec Murdoch: on some level yes I was successful after you [02:47:35] Speaker 2: were confronted on Labor Day weekend 2021 did you resign or were you forced to resign from a law firm absolutely and then on Saturday September the 4th do you remember what happened that day [02:47:59] Alec Murdoch: Saturday September 4th yes sir I remember [02:48:03] Speaker 2: and what happened [02:48:05] Alec Murdoch: start when I woke up [02:48:09] Speaker 2: met with Chris Wilson did you meet with Chris Wilson [02:48:14] Alec Murdoch: I met with Chris Wilson at my mom's and dad's house in Almeda [02:48:19] Speaker 2: did you lay it out for Chris Wilson your opioid addiction and your misconduct [02:48:28] Alec Murdoch: I definitely laid out my addiction I definitely gave him some details about monies that I had taken I didn't give him we didn't go into all the details about all of it but I certainly was very candid with him about the things that involved him [02:48:53] Speaker 2: had you already contacted the detox facility before you met with Chris Wilson on the 4th [02:49:04] Alec Murdoch: I believe that we had already at that point I believe that we had already spoken to the guy that I knew from sunrise and made arrangements for me to go there on Monday [02:49:24] Speaker 2: I [02:49:27] Alec Murdoch: know we had arrangements for me to go there on Monday and I'm sure we had to have had it by the end because I went to the hospital shortly after that so yes [02:49:37] Speaker 2: and did you reach out to Blanca to get your insurance information [02:49:41] Alec Murdoch: I did [02:49:42] Speaker 2: and for what purpose [02:49:44] Alec Murdoch: because I was going to use my insurance at detox and rehab to help pay for it [02:49:53] Speaker 2: and what was your immediate plans after the day after you met with Chris Wilson did you have plans to do anything have any other meetings on that Saturday I [02:50:14] Alec Murdoch: wanted to go and meet with Corey Fleming who was another lawyer who was affected by the things I did [02:50:21] Speaker 2: and did you [02:50:24] Alec Murdoch: and a good friend [02:50:25] Speaker 2: did you go meet with Corey Fleming [02:50:27] Alec Murdoch: no [02:50:28] Speaker 2: what did you do instead [02:50:32] Alec Murdoch: I'd give him my when I gave my pills to my brother Randy and Danny I think I gave them to Randy but I'd taken I took a lot of pills because I knew I wasn't going to be taken anymore so Randy had my pills I had to get some from him the night before but I only got a small amount I could tell you know I wasn't taking anything near like what I had been taking so I knew it was coming and I called someone to bring me more pills and I believe before I met with Chris Wilson [02:51:21] Speaker 2: and did you meet this did the person you called bring you more pills [02:51:27] Alec Murdoch: you know I don't know if he brought me more pills or not because by the time I met with him after meeting with Chris and after you know the starting of the withdrawals I changed my plans [02:51:53] Speaker 2: and what what was the change in plans [02:51:58] Alec Murdoch: not to get pills from him anymore and instead I asked him to shoot me [02:52:05] Speaker 2: did you ask him to shoot you as a sympathy ploy or did you want [02:52:12] Speaker 4: to die yes [02:52:14] Speaker 2: sir why did you ask him to shoot you what was the end goal in your that you wanted to accomplish I [02:52:20] Alec Murdoch: meant for him to shoot me so I be gone [02:52:22] Speaker 2: and who was this who did you ask to do this [02:52:30] Alec Murdoch: Eddie Smith [02:52:31] Speaker 2: and did he in fact shoot you he [02:52:35] Speaker 3: did [02:52:35] Speaker 2: and where where was that located not your gunshot but where were you shot in Hampton and Colleton County where were it's [02:52:49] Alec Murdoch: Hampton County it's right on the border Sokohatchie road runs right along the Sokohatchie river and [02:53:03] Speaker 2: why did you want to be gone [02:53:07] Alec Murdoch: I mean I knew all this was coming to a head I knew how humiliating it was going to be for my son I'd been through so much at the time in the bad place that I was it seemed like a better thing to do I don't think that way now thankfully but I did at the time [02:53:44] Speaker 2: Did you have life insurance on you? [02:53:48] Alec Murdoch: Oh yeah I had a lot of life insurance [02:53:49] Speaker 2: And who was the beneficiary? [02:53:54] Alec Murdoch: Maggie was the beneficiary [02:53:55] Speaker 2: How much life insurance did you have? [02:54:00] Alec Murdoch: I had 12 million dollars I had a 4 million dollar policy and an 8 million dollar policy a total of 12 [02:54:07] Speaker 2: Did you ever have any life insurance on Maggie? [02:54:13] Speaker 4: No Never [02:54:15] Speaker 2: Did you ever have any life insurance on Paul? [02:54:17] Speaker 4: No [02:54:18] Speaker 2: Alex will you tell this jury about Maggie and your relationship with her? [02:54:48] Alec Murdoch: Y'all Y'all saw a picture She was just as beautiful inside as she was outside [02:55:12] Speaker 3: and I mean she was so adventurous I mean she you couldn't tell her something was good or bad I mean she wanted to find out for herself she wanted to do it see it experience it on her own and form her own opinion she was devoted those two boys blessed her Paul me I mean I mean she made sure we didn't want for anything ever fun playful I mean she had a laugh that you know you didn't even have to know what was funny if you heard her laugh you would laugh you know she had this little playful look where she would smile at you and bite her lip I can't do it but I mean when she would just do it it would just melt you you know she was such a lady such a feminine person a girl but then she had two boys and I mean she didn't grow up in the swamp and in the country riding four wheelers and hunting and fishing and [02:57:15] Alec Murdoch: I mean she she changed everything she she became a boy's mom I mean her life became ball and riding four wheelers and I mean doing those things now don't get me wrong she was still 100% girl and you heard Mary say I mean she loved to do those things with her nieces but I mean she threw herself into her boy's life I mean [02:57:50] Speaker 3: you know she never took not working for granted I mean she she might not have worked but I promise you she worked [02:58:02] Alec Murdoch: and she worked to make sure me and Paul and Buster had everything again you know [02:58:13] Speaker 3: she she wanted a big family and pregnancy just didn't suit her her pregnancies were so hard I would leave her in the mornings and she'd be sick I'd come home and check on her and she'd be sick I'd come back at the end of the day and she'd be sick I mean she was so sick all the time with both those boys and and when we had Pawpaw Maggie got in trouble and Pawpaw got in trouble [02:58:49] Alec Murdoch: and this pregnancy didn't suit her so we decided that you know we would just have the two boys and you know I just think how hard it was on her just made her love those boys so much more and she did but she was the kind of person [02:59:20] Speaker 3: Maggie you know she could put on the most elegant ball gown [02:59:28] Alec Murdoch: and go to the governor's mansion and hang out with you know the most affluent people whatever or she could come down to you know she could go to a food bank in Hampton or Walter Burr and fit in everybody at both places would say when she left and that Maggie she's she's a good one [03:00:02] Speaker 4: she's just a special person [03:00:08] Speaker 2: very special [03:00:11] Speaker 5: person [03:00:12] Speaker 2: would you ever do anything to harm Maggie [03:00:15] Speaker 5: I would never hurt Maggie [03:00:18] Speaker 2: ever will you tell the jury about Paul please and your relationship with him [03:00:27] Speaker 5: and Pawpaw [03:00:30] Alec Murdoch: I mean Pawpaw was just the brightest he was the brightest he's the most inquisitive young man he wanted to be a part of everything if you were working I can remember as a little boy you'd be working on something it didn't matter what it was his little head was going to come in there nose in there to see what you were doing he was a man's man he was a hundred percent country boy he was tough I mean he he could hunt anything he could catch any fish he could run any piece of equipment he could use any tool I mean he could do anything at 22 years old he could do so many things I mean he took care of so many and he was so tough but on the other hand he had a side to him that was just so sweet he wouldn't come home where he wouldn't go check on his grandparents he wouldn't go near Somerville where he wouldn't go out of his way check on his grandparents you know to be such a tough person he would get all of his buddies and get on a boat and go watch a sunset how many 22 year old people you know this stuff like that [03:02:21] Speaker 5: I mean he was such a special boy he cared about people [03:02:31] Speaker 3: he was fiercely loyal he was so misrepresented in the media I mean never never an accurate story told [03:02:45] Alec Murdoch: about what he was and I'll challenge you right now I would challenge everybody in this room to go find somebody [03:02:54] Speaker 3: somebody that knew Paul Paul really knew him that did not have an ulterior motive that would say something negative about him and I challenge everybody who can hear me now to do that I mean Paul was that kind of person if you knew him he would help you and he would be glad to help you you know I thought Mark Ball made a good point when he said [03:03:27] Alec Murdoch: you know Paul Paul might not have quite found his place yet Paul was ADD ADHD and so he would jump around from thing to thing a lot but there's absolutely no question in my mind whatsoever that Paul Paul would have found whatever that thing was that he was going to do and whatever that ended up being he was going to be one of the best at it that you've ever known and I'll tell you one more thing I didn't even know this when Paul was alive but excuse me excuse me when when when they were doing his eulogy I gave the names of some of his friends and he had a real cute friend that they were just friends but cute little girl Maggie adored I didn't know her very well but Maggie did Maggie adored her but they talked to her and Paw Paw we learned this from her Julianne and at 22 years old I learned Paw Paw would tell his friends [03:05:00] Speaker 3: be present appreciate [03:05:08] Speaker ?: appreciate [03:05:08] Speaker 3: where you are the things you have and the people around you [03:05:14] Alec Murdoch: I think a lot of that came from it hurt Paul so bad when Mallory died but how many 22 year olds [03:05:24] Speaker 3: do you know that think that way be present appreciate things around you at 22 years old [03:05:34] Alec Murdoch: he's the most special boy [03:05:38] Speaker 2: do you love Paul did I [03:05:40] Alec Murdoch: love him [03:05:41] Speaker 5: like no other he am buster [03:05:46] Speaker 2: do you love Maggie [03:05:47] Speaker 5: more than anything I love Maggie from the first time we went out [03:05:52] Speaker 2: did you kill Maggie [03:05:56] Alec Murdoch: no I did not kill Maggie I did not kill Paul I would never hurt Maggie and I would never hurt Paul ever under any circumstances [03:06:07] Speaker 2: thank you please answer any questions thank you [03:06:16] Speaker 6: we'll take a - Thank you.