Alex Murdaugh cross-examination on what he did on the night of the murders: full video

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: may place the court. Have you had a chance to review that, Mr. Burdock? Yes, sir. All right, and do you recognize what those are generally? I do. And what are they? Texts between Maggie and I. And what day do they take place? June the 6th. June the 6th, 2021. Is that correct? That's correct, yes, sir. All right, at this time, the state would offer states 572 in evidence. [00:00:27] Speaker 2: Objection. It's admitted without objection. All right, tell the jury where were you when these [00:00:36] Speaker 1: texts were taking place? I was in a hotel. And what city were you in? Columbia, South Carolina. All right, and where were they? [00:00:52] Speaker 3: I'm not exactly sure where they were when they first started, but they would have been somewhere between a hotel, a restaurant, and the ball field. All right, but when you send [00:01:04] Speaker 1: this text on June 6th at 1141, you say, y'all in seat already, correct? Yes, that's what I did say. All right, and they say, Maggie says, yes, we like these seats. Is that correct? All right, [00:01:17] Speaker 3: that's correct. That's correct. I didn't notice that. So at that point in time, they are in the [00:01:21] Speaker 1: ballpark. All right, and then you respond better than last night. They extended checkout to one going to come then. Is that correct? That's what that text says. Yes, sir. All right, so you're back at the room. Is that right? Yes, sir. Later on, you text after she asked you to bring a charger and says, Muggy, you text, I'm dreading it. See you in a little bit. Is that correct? [00:01:52] Speaker 3: That's what I said. Yes, sir. [00:01:59] Speaker 1: She responds, don't come, but then asks about the charger and says it's hot. Is that correct? [00:02:09] Speaker 3: Mr. Waters, yes, I assume you were reading it exactly, so yes, sir. All right. [00:02:24] Speaker 1: She eventually responds, not crowded, but not the place to come. If you don't feel well, very hot and muggy, we are inside, sitting at the bar very nice indoors. Is that correct? [00:02:35] Speaker 3: That's what it says. Yes, sir. [00:02:38] Speaker 1: And then you respond, dialed you by accident. They are making me leave, so I'll see you all in a few. Is that correct? That's correct. And who was making you leave where? [00:02:48] Speaker 3: It was past checkout time at the hotel. [00:02:52] Speaker 1: After you'd gotten an extended checkout, correct? [00:02:55] Speaker 3: It appears so. [00:03:02] Speaker 1: And the reality is, is that you were in that hotel suffering from withdrawals when that's going on. Is that correct? [00:03:13] Speaker 3: I was beginning to, yes, sir. [00:03:14] Speaker 1: All right. And the reality is, is that your wife and your son were on you at that time period because they had found pills just a few weeks prior. [00:03:29] Speaker 3: No, sir, that's not correct. All right. [00:03:35] Speaker 1: Let's talk about June the 7th, okay? All right. Let's talk about June the 7th, okay? You got up that morning, or what time do you think you got up and left that day? [00:04:14] Speaker 3: After having the benefit of looking at all these records, I don't know what time I got up. And looking at the records, obviously I've been up for a while, but it appears I left shortly after noon. [00:04:28] Speaker 1: Okay. And you went to work? I did, yes, sir. And what were you working on at work? [00:04:34] Speaker 3: I was working on this Dominion Energy case. It was primarily what I was working on. That we had motions coming up later in that week. As I said earlier, I believed at the time that it was the biggest case that I'd ever been involved in. And there were motions coming up in that. I was preparing. Danny Henderson, my partner that was helping me with the civil case from the boat wreck, had been on me about getting a financial statement. And I finished doing that, so that it could be given to Danny. It's what I remember doing. Obviously, I talked to Jeannie. Okay. And what time did you leave? And I'm sure I did some other routine office things, but I can't tell you what they are. [00:05:42] Speaker 1: All right. What time did you leave? [00:05:43] Speaker 3: It appears that I left around a little after six from the records. I thought I'd left earlier than that, but I mean the records were, seemed to be pretty clear. [00:05:56] Speaker 1: All right. And you were, in fact, I think you said in both, many of your interviews that you were working on the boat case that day as well, your financial declaration. [00:06:04] Speaker 3: Yes, I prepared the financial declaration. I didn't do any work in this civil case. So my work in that is what I did. I prepared the financial statement, which took me a little bit of time to get the details on that. But I mean, that was the work I did on on in preparation for the motions coming up. And what time did you get home? And looking at the records, it looks like I got home a little before seven, 6:45, I think. 6:40 something. [00:06:48] Speaker 1: And then you and Paul rode the property? That's correct. And you told law enforcement you shot a .22? [00:06:58] Speaker 3: That's correct. [00:06:59] Speaker 1: You told law enforcement that you never saw any blackout? [00:07:05] Speaker 3: That I'd never seen a blackout? [00:07:08] Speaker 1: At that point in time when you and Paul were riding the property? [00:07:10] Speaker 3: No, I did not see a blackout. [00:07:19] Speaker 1: Did you tell law enforcement that you and Paul were going around looking for hogs? If I said that? [00:07:27] Speaker 3: Go ahead. And if I told them that, you know, you don't look for hogs in the daytime. All right? That just -- the hogs are deep in the swamp in the daytime. So I can tell you that Paul and I were not riding around looking for hogs. But what we were doing is we were going from food plot to food plot and we were looking for hog signs. All right? What a hog would do is come out and root and they tear up food plots. They tear up -- they tear up everything. And so that was one of the things we were doing but we were not hog hunting. We were not looking for hogs. We did not have the .300 blackout with us. [00:08:12] Speaker 1: Okay. Paul didn't have the gun that he -- that blackout that he favored with him while y'all rode the property? [00:08:21] Speaker 3: The gun that's in here? [00:08:22] Speaker 1: Any rifle. [00:08:24] Speaker 3: There was no .300 blackout with me and Paul. [00:08:26] Speaker 1: All y'all had was a .22. [00:08:30] Speaker 3: And that was a .22 pistol. But we didn't have that with us at that time riding the property. [00:08:37] Speaker 1: Right. And you testified -- you've seen the Snapchat video of you and the tree. Is that right? I have seen that. And you don't dispute the time of that video, do you? [00:08:52] Speaker 3: I don't -- I don't even know what time that was taken. But whatever the gentleman came and testified to, I don't dispute that. [00:08:59] Speaker 1: All right. And what time -- well, let me ask you this. When did you go back to the house? Were you with Paul or were you by yourself? [00:09:12] Speaker 3: I was by myself when I went back to the house. I went back to the house basically when Maggie got there. [00:09:17] Speaker 1: When Maggie got there. All right. And where had Paul gone prior to that? Was he back at the house already or he came after you? [00:09:27] Speaker 3: Paul was at the shop when I went back to the house. [00:09:32] Speaker 1: All right. So you beat him to the house is what you're saying. Is that right? I beat him to the house? Yeah. You were at the house prior to him getting there? [00:09:38] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:09:40] Speaker 1: All right. And you say Maggie was there at the same time or there before you or there after you? [00:09:45] Speaker 3: That's what I'm not absolutely certain about. I believe that Maggie came through the kennel entrance and going back and looking at these records and these times, I believe she came through the kennel entrance while Paul Paul and I were at the shop. But either way, I got to the house very shortly after Maggie got there. [00:10:07] Speaker 1: Okay. [00:10:08] Speaker 3: And I believe that she came through and I believe that I went right behind her. [00:10:12] Speaker 1: And when did you take the shower that you've been talking about to this jury? [00:10:18] Speaker 3: I believe when I first went in the house. I mean, I would have talked to Maggie for a second, but I'd seen her that morning, so I would. [00:10:28] Speaker 1: You left your clothes on the floor? [00:10:30] Speaker 3: I'm not sure. It makes sense to me given what Blanca's said, but I couldn't tell you one way or the other. All right. [00:10:44] Speaker 1: About what time was that, you think? [00:10:46] Speaker 3: In looking at the records, I think that was a little after eight. [00:10:49] Speaker 1: And you're saying Maggie was already there at that point? [00:10:54] Speaker 3: When I got to the house. [00:10:56] Speaker 1: Yeah. [00:10:56] Speaker 3: Yeah. Okay. [00:10:59] Speaker 1: And what did you do after that? [00:11:00] Speaker 3: I came back out, sat out on the couch to eat dinner. [00:11:04] Speaker 1: All right. About what time was that? [00:11:07] Speaker 3: A few minutes later. I mean, it didn't take me long to shower. [00:11:12] Speaker 1: And you say Paul was already eating at that point? [00:11:16] Speaker 3: He was. [00:11:17] Speaker 1: And you say he left first. [00:11:22] Speaker 3: What I said is he got up and he finished eating. And he left our immediate vicinity. Now, I don't believe he left at that point given what I've looked at time records and all. I believe that he was around the house for a little bit longer. [00:11:48] Speaker 1: And just to be clear again. But I didn't see him. All of this detail was people were hearing for the first time yesterday, like we talked about before, correct? [00:11:59] Speaker 3: Say that again? [00:12:00] Speaker 1: All of this detail that we're going through right now is not anything that you related before. We're all hearing this for the first time yesterday. [00:12:06] Speaker 4: Objection, Your Honor. Fifth Amendment privilege. [00:12:10] Speaker 2: Objection is overruled. [00:12:12] Speaker 3: So, yes, I did not tell law enforcement. Actually, I don't think law enforcement asked me what I did when we first went to the house. But I clearly lied to law enforcement about what I said yesterday. Okay. [00:12:41] Speaker 1: And all of this, the last time you supposedly saw your wife and child, all of this detail, you as a lawyer and a prosecutor didn't think that was important to offer on your own? [00:12:54] Speaker 3: Well, I think it's important. [00:12:56] Speaker 1: You told this jury how cooperative you've been and how much information you wanted to provide, but you left out the most important parts, didn't you? [00:13:03] Speaker 3: I left out that. I sure did. [00:13:07] Speaker 1: You don't consider that one of the most important parts? [00:13:10] Speaker 3: I think it's important. [00:13:17] Speaker 1: All right. Tell me about what happens next. Tell me about how Maggie and Paul end up out down at the kennels. [00:13:25] Speaker 3: I'm still not absolutely certain exactly how they ended up at the kennel, but in looking at the time frames and looking at the GPS points, I think I pretty well know. Because I wasn't sure if Maggie had walked to the kennels or ridden to the kennels. And I wasn't exactly sure how Pawpaw got there, but I'm all but certain that Maggie and Paul went to the kennel together. [00:13:56] Speaker 1: All right. And what was the discussion? You said that they were going down there, but you didn't want to go. Is that right? [00:14:02] Speaker 3: Maggie. What I said is Maggie asked me to go to the kennels with her, and I wasn't going to go. I said I'm not going to go. [00:14:11] Speaker 1: And how long after she left did you supposedly go down there? It was very quickly. And what did you tell this jury and all these new facts as to the reason you changed your mind? Why'd you change your mind? [00:14:28] Speaker 3: I just had a shower. When you go to the kennel, you always end up at the shop. Dogs are running around. You're always going to end up doing more work. All right? It's hot. I'd already had a shower. I didn't want to go to the kennel. [00:14:47] Speaker 1: I understand that. So why'd you change your mind? [00:14:50] Speaker 3: Because Maggie wanted me to. [00:14:53] Speaker 1: So you thought about it for a few minutes and then decided to go down there? [00:14:56] Speaker 3: I don't think I sat and contemplated, am I going to go? Am I going to go? I think that like many things Maggie wanted me to do, if I didn't do it at first, I ended up doing it. [00:15:07] Speaker 1: And you took the golf cart down to the kennels? [00:15:09] Speaker 3: That's correct. [00:15:09] Speaker 1: How long did that take to drive from the house down to the kennels in a golf cart? [00:15:14] Speaker 3: You know, in looking at the records from own star and all of that, it seems to take about a minute in the golf cart? Nope, in the suburban. So I would think it's probably, in looking at those speeds, what, 20, 24 miles an hour, I would think it takes double that. I think it takes a couple minutes. [00:15:35] Speaker 1: All right. So you'll concede at least a couple minutes to drive down there. I think, yes. [00:15:38] Speaker ?: Is that right? [00:15:38] Speaker 1: I think, yes. In a golf cart? [00:15:39] Speaker 3: That's correct. [00:15:44] Speaker 1: When the kennel video was going on, had you arrived before that? [00:15:53] Speaker 3: I believe that I had. [00:15:55] Speaker 1: Okay. How long do you think you had been there before that was going on? [00:15:58] Speaker 3: Not long. Because when I got there, in looking at the kennel video, you can see Paw Paw standing in the kennel. When I got there, Paw Paw wasn't standing in the kennel. [00:16:19] Speaker 1: He wasn't in the kennel anymore? [00:16:20] Speaker 3: Well, he wasn't in the kennel like he is in the video. Right. He's, I mean, he's probably, and I don't know exactly, but I know he wasn't in the kennel. He was, like, in the driveway. He was fooling with cash. He was in the driveway, but, like, close to the kennel, but not in the kennel like he is in the video. [00:16:44] Speaker 1: So the video happened after that, according to you? [00:16:49] Speaker 3: Video happened after I got there. [00:16:51] Speaker 1: After you first saw Paul? You're saying he wasn't in the kennel. When did the video happen? I believe that to be the case. Okay. After you had arrived. Is that correct? [00:16:58] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:16:59] Speaker 1: And? [00:17:00] Speaker 3: Very shortly after I arrived, but after I arrived. All right. [00:17:04] Speaker 1: And did you tell Maggie at that time that you were going to go to Alameda? [00:17:08] Speaker 3: I did not. [00:17:10] Speaker 1: Did y'all discuss it at all, according to these new facts you're testifying to? [00:17:14] Speaker 3: I don't believe so. [00:17:20] Speaker 1: Did you have any conversation with her? [00:17:21] Speaker 3: Oh, yeah. [00:17:23] Speaker 1: Had you had a conversation? Did you have a conversation with Paul about the dogs, about Cash's tail prior to going down there? [00:17:33] Speaker 3: Prior to going down there? I don't - did I have a conversation with Paul about Cash? [00:17:41] Speaker 1: Yes, did you talk to him about Cash and some problem with his tail prior to going down there? Did you have any knowledge of that prior to going down there? [00:17:49] Speaker 3: I'm not sure. As I sit here today, I don't recall that, but I don't - I don't - I don't think so. [00:17:58] Speaker 1: When you first arrived in the golf cart, where did you pull up to? [00:18:02] Speaker 3: I pulled up right where Maggie was. [00:18:04] Speaker 1: Which is where? [00:18:05] Speaker 3: She was standing in a spot where she could see in between the chicken coop and the storage room of the kennels, where the dogs were back up in those planted pines behind the kennels to the left of the chicken coop. [00:18:24] Speaker 1: And what'd you do after that? I went back to the house. No, I mean, did you - you pulled up, you get out of the - the golf cart? [00:18:35] Speaker 3: When I - no, when I pulled up, I stayed on the golf cart. [00:18:37] Speaker 1: You stayed on the golf cart. How long did you stay on the golf cart? [00:18:40] Speaker 3: However long I was down there. [00:18:41] Speaker 1: The entire time? [00:18:43] Speaker 3: No, I got off to take the chicken from Bubba. [00:18:46] Speaker 1: All right, so how long were you down there before you took the chicken off of Bubba? [00:18:50] Speaker 3: Very short time. [00:18:51] Speaker 1: Like what? [00:18:54] Speaker 3: Couple minutes. [00:18:59] Speaker 1: And what were you doing during the couple minutes before you got over there to deal with Bubba? [00:19:03] Speaker 3: Talking to Mags. [00:19:04] Speaker 1: All right. And what did y'all talk about? [00:19:05] Speaker 3: I don't know. [00:19:07] Speaker 1: You don't remember? [00:19:08] Speaker 3: No, sir. I do know that, uh, Maggie was very concerned about Pawpaw and, um... [00:19:20] Speaker 1: You remember a lot of detail about all these new facts, but you don't remember what you talked about? [00:19:24] Speaker 3: I don't remember the exact details of what we talked about. I believe that at that time we may have talked about Pawpaw. But I'm not certain. [00:19:47] Speaker 1: Were you withdrawing at this time? At this time? No, sir. You weren't withdrawing at all? [00:19:52] Speaker 3: No. I mean, I would only withdraw when I didn't have pills. [00:20:00] Speaker 1: And you're saying you had pills? Yes. Down there for a couple minutes, I think you've said now, before you get off the golf cart? [00:20:11] Speaker 3: About, yes, sir. [00:20:12] Speaker 1: All right. And where do you go at that point? [00:20:16] Speaker 3: I take the chicken from Bubba. [00:20:18] Speaker 1: All right. So you get up? [00:20:20] Speaker 3: Well, I mean, Bubba's, you know, Bubba's come out there with this chicken. I mean, he's showing us, hey, I caught this chicken. And I take the chicken from Bubba. He came up by the golf cart. He came up to Maggie and I, which I was on the golf cart. She's by the golf cart. I mean, he's not coming to the golf cart, but he's coming to us. [00:20:43] Speaker 1: Is this during the kennel video or is this after the kennel video? [00:20:47] Speaker 3: Well, no, you hear Maggie say he's got a chicken. That's what she's talking about is Bubba caught a chicken. [00:20:53] Speaker 1: All right. All right. So is the kennel video still going on before you go get the chicken? I mean, you've heard it, correct? You've heard it in this courtroom. [00:21:02] Speaker 3: I don't know exactly. I don't know exactly. But in close time into Bubba coming out of those woods with the chicken, I got up and took the chicken from him. [00:21:14] Speaker 1: Okay. Let me ask you this. Were the dogs barking and carrying on or going out into the woods or acting like they sensed somebody was around that they didn't know? [00:21:27] Speaker 3: Were the dogs acting like there was somebody around that they didn't know? [00:21:30] Speaker 1: Yeah, like dogs do. [00:21:32] Speaker 3: No. No, they weren't. There was nobody around that the dogs didn't know. [00:21:37] Speaker 1: Okay. Dogs didn't, to your indication, sense anything out of the ordinary. They were just chasing after the guinea. [00:21:47] Speaker 3: There was nobody else around for them to sense. [00:21:56] Speaker 1: You've heard the kennel video. Would you agree with me that it lasts for about 50 seconds? [00:22:02] Speaker 3: I agree with that. [00:22:04] Speaker 1: So it would have ended around 8:45 and 45 seconds. Would you agree with that? [00:22:10] Speaker 3: I do agree with that. [00:22:11] Speaker 1: Did you have the chicken out of Bubba's mouth at the end of the kennel video or did it take longer than that? [00:22:18] Speaker 3: You know, I can't remember exactly when in the video he came up with the chicken, but I would have had the chicken out of his mouth within 10, 15 seconds of Maggie saying, [00:22:37] Speaker 1: "He's got a chicken." All right. And so then what did you do? I put the chicken up. All right. How long did that take? Did you get out of the golf cart to do that? I did. All right. And you had to go walk to where it was? Well, yeah. [00:22:49] Speaker 3: I mean, a few feet, but I did that, yes. [00:22:53] Speaker 1: All right. So how long did that take? Seconds. We're at 8:46 now. How long did that take? Seconds. Just seconds? All right. And what did you do after that? [00:23:02] Speaker 3: Got back on the golf cart. [00:23:07] Speaker 1: And what did you do after that? [00:23:09] Speaker 3: I left. [00:23:10] Speaker 1: You left? Now, did I leave? Just jumped on the golf cart and left? [00:23:13] Speaker 3: Well, that's what I was getting ready to say. Did I get on the golf cart and leave that second? Probably not. But did I get on the golf cart and leave very quickly after that? I did. Okay. [00:23:24] Speaker 1: Yeah. I think you testified yesterday. I got out of there. [00:23:26] Speaker 3: I did. [00:23:29] Speaker 1: Why'd you get out of there so quick, Mr. Murdoch? [00:23:32] Speaker 3: Because it was chaotic. It was hot. And I was getting ready to do exactly what I didn't want to do. [00:23:41] Speaker 1: You're getting ready to do what you didn't want to do. [00:23:43] Speaker 3: That's correct. [00:23:43] Speaker 1: Yeah. [00:23:44] Speaker 3: I was getting ready to sweat. I was getting ready to work. I went back to the air conditioner. [00:23:50] Speaker 1: So did you say goodbye, according to your new story? [00:23:57] Speaker 3: Did I say goodbye? [00:23:58] Speaker 1: Yeah. Did you talk to them at all? Or did you just get the chicken, put it on there, jump on there, and just take off? [00:24:03] Speaker 3: I wouldn't have just gone off. I mean, I would have said, I'm leaving. Okay. Did I say goodbye or bye? And again, go ahead. I mean, there would have been some, you know, there would have been some exchange. [00:24:16] Speaker 1: I'm not staying here. Well, what was that exchange? I mean, you've had such a photographic memory about these new stories. What happened here? That's not, I can't tell you the exact words. You don't remember your conversation after you put that chicken up. Did y'all talk about the chicken? [00:24:36] Speaker 3: No, I don't think we did. [00:24:37] Speaker 1: Did you talk with Paul about Cash's tail? [00:24:40] Speaker 3: After the chicken? [00:24:41] Speaker 1: Yeah. [00:24:42] Speaker 3: No, I know I didn't do that. [00:24:44] Speaker 1: Did you tell Maggie, I'm going to go check on him? At that point, no, I don't think I did. Did you tell Maggie, oh, let's hide out here. Think I'll go back? [00:24:53] Speaker 3: I certainly would have said something to that effect. [00:24:56] Speaker 1: All right. So, unlike everything else with the new story, you just can't recall what that would have been. [00:25:03] Speaker 3: Well, you know, I mean, you're making that categorization. I think there's other things about that that I can't remember. But if the question is, can I remember exactly what words I used when I gave Maggie some salutation when I'm leaving? I can't tell you what those were. All right. But it would have been something to the effect of, I'm leaving. [00:25:26] Speaker 1: All right. Okay. Well, you would concede that there was at least some conversation, that you wouldn't have just put the chicken on there and jumped, ran back to the golf cart and taken off. [00:25:34] Speaker 3: Correct. Without talking to Maggie, I would have never done that. [00:25:38] Speaker ?: All right. [00:25:38] Speaker 1: All right. So, Will, let's, you want to say a minute? Does that sound about right? [00:25:43] Speaker 3: A minute for what? [00:25:44] Speaker 1: To have just whatever interaction it took for you to then, according to your new story, drive back to? [00:25:49] Speaker 3: No, sir. It wouldn't have taken me a minute. Not a minute. It would have said, it would have been, I'm leaving. I'll see you in a minute. [00:26:00] Speaker 1: Okay. So, 30 seconds? [00:26:03] Speaker 3: I don't think it would have taken 30 seconds. But, I mean, I'm fine with you using whatever time you want to apply. But I don't think it would have taken that long. [00:26:09] Speaker 1: I'm just asking about real life here and how people interact with one another, Mr. Murdoch. I mean, so what you're telling this jury, I call, you're fuzzy on these kind of details, is that you jetted down there, you dealt with the chicken, and jetted right back. [00:26:24] Speaker 3: No, sir. No, sir. I didn't, I didn't, I didn't jet down there, and I didn't jet back. I got up after Maggie asked me to leave, after Maggie asked me to go with her, and I didn't. I got up. I went and got on a golf cart. I drove down there. I did what I did. I said, I'm leaving, or something to those words, and I went back. [00:26:50] Speaker 1: All right. Well, if it's about 8:46, if the kennel video ends at 8:45 and 45 seconds, and it's about 8:46, we at least can see that maybe it was about a minute before you got on that golf cart and headed back. Just reasonable, real life. [00:27:05] Speaker 3: Maybe. Yeah. I mean, I don't think it was that long, but maybe, sure. All right, so. But I don't think it was that long. I mean, exactly what I thought was going to be going on at that kennel, why I didn't want to go there to begin with, is exactly what was going on. [00:27:20] Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I get that. [00:27:22] Speaker 3: And I left. [00:27:23] Speaker 1: Are these also convenient facts in your new story that have to fit with the timeline, now that that evidence has been thrown in your face? [00:27:31] Speaker 3: No, sir. [00:27:32] Speaker 1: Does that sound like real life to you, that you jet down there and jet back, Mr. Murdoch? [00:27:36] Speaker 3: Mr. Waters, as I just told you, I didn't get on my golf cart and jet down there. I didn't jet back. The reason why you have to be so fudgy about these details. Mr. Waters, hang on. [00:27:47] Speaker 4: Just answer before another question is presented. Yes, sir. [00:27:52] Speaker 3: I'm answering your question. [00:27:53] Speaker 2: Just a moment. Are you responding to the last question? [00:27:58] Speaker 3: Yes, sir. I'm responding to your question, and you're using words that I'm not using. And that's your categorization. [00:28:11] Speaker 1: Do you agree I'm entitled to ask my questions to you, sir? [00:28:13] Speaker 3: Absolutely. Okay. And I'm going to answer them. All I'm saying is I'm taking issue with the manner in which you're changing what I'm saying. [00:28:25] Speaker 1: So you disagree this is a new story? Do you disagree with that characterization? [00:28:33] Speaker 3: Yes, this is the first time that this is being told openly. [00:28:38] Speaker 1: And you disagree, to my characterization, that you've got a photographic memory about the details that have to fit now that you know these facts, but you're fuzzy on the other stuff that complicates that. Do you disagree with that? [00:28:51] Speaker 3: I do disagree with that. I think that I have a good memory about a lot of things on this. [00:28:58] Speaker 1: How about this? We've got the Kindle video ending at 8:45.45. So just to take care of the chicken, put it up. I was going to say 8:47, but somewhere around there. I think you said somewhere around there. Is that fair? Just to do whatever you need to do and get on that cart before you head back. [00:29:18] Speaker 3: The Kindle video ended at 8:45? The Kindle video ending at 8:45. [00:29:23] Speaker ?: The Kindle video ending at 8:45? [00:29:23] Speaker 1: The Kindle video ending at 8:45? The Kindle video ending at 8:45? [00:29:24] Speaker 3: The Kindle video ending at 8:45? The Kindle video ending at 8:45? The Kindle video ending at 8:45? [00:29:27] Speaker ?: The Kindle video ending at 8:45? The Kindle video ending at 8:45? [00:29:27] Speaker 3: The Kindle video ending at 8:45? [00:29:28] Speaker ?: The Kindle video ending at 8:45? [00:29:28] Speaker 3: The Kindle video ending at 8:45? The Kindle video ending at 8:45. The Kindle video ending at 8:45? [00:29:32] Speaker 1: The Kindle video ending at 8:45? The Kindle video ending at 8:45? The Kindle video ending at 8:45? The Kindle video ending at 8:45? The Kindle video ending at 8:45? [00:29:39] Speaker 3: The Kindle video ending at 8:45? The Kindle video ending at 8:45? The Kindle video ending at 8:45? The Kindle video ending at 8:45? The Kindle video ending at 8:45? The Kindle video ending at 8:45? [00:29:45] Speaker 1: The Kindle video ending at 8:45? The Kindle video ending at 8:45? The Kindle video ending at 8:45? [00:29:48] Speaker 3: The Kindle video ending at 8:45? [00:29:50] Speaker 1: The Kindle video ending at 8:45? I said, giving you the benefit of the doubt, it's two minutes to get up back to the house, [00:29:58] Speaker 3: correct? Approximately. [00:30:00] Speaker 1: All right. And when you got back to the house, where did you park the golf cart? [00:30:04] Speaker 3: The same place I'd gotten it from, right where Mark Ball testified that it was. [00:30:10] Speaker 1: All right. And what door did you go in? [00:30:13] Speaker 3: I would have gone in the front door. [00:30:16] Speaker 1: And if you left around 8:47 and it took about two minutes to get up to the house, what time would that make it, Mr. Murdoch? [00:30:29] Speaker 3: If I left at 8:47 and if it took me two minutes, that would make it 8:49. [00:30:35] Speaker 1: 8:49. And you testified you went inside, and the TV's on, right? [00:30:50] Speaker 3: I did go inside, and the TV was on. [00:30:53] Speaker 1: Okay. And you laid down, is that right? I did. All right. Before you said you'd been napping for an hour or so, or napping that entire time, but now you're laid down on the couch? [00:31:05] Speaker 3: Yeah. [00:31:06] Speaker 1: That's correct. All right. And maybe doze for a second? [00:31:09] Speaker ?: Maybe. [00:31:10] Speaker 1: According to your new story? How long did you doze? [00:31:15] Speaker 3: If I dozed, extremely short time. [00:31:19] Speaker 1: Extremely short time? Because you would agree with me that at 9:02, you're up and moving, according to the data. [00:31:27] Speaker 3: I agree that according to that data, my phone's recording steps at whatever time it is, 9:02 something. [00:31:35] Speaker 1: How long did it take you, if you were at the house at 8:49, how long before you went and laid on the couch? [00:31:44] Speaker 3: I would have gone straight to the couch, probably. I may have gone by the sink, or I may have gotten a spit cup, but it would have been basically straight to the couch. Straight to the couch? [00:31:51] Speaker ?: Yes, sir. [00:31:51] Speaker 3: And you're telling this jury that that's what happened, and you were back at the house at [00:32:07] Speaker 1: 8:49, and you lay down on the couch and doze for a second, and then you were up with more steps in a shorter time period than you had done all day. [00:32:17] Speaker 3: I mean, your number is 8:49. What I'm telling this jury is that I went down there, and when I took that chicken from Bubba, I would have said something to Mags, I got back on that golf cart, and I drove back to my house. After getting back to my house, I went inside, and in short order, I went to the couch. That's what I'm telling this jury. [00:32:44] Speaker 1: Did you go anywhere else in the house? [00:32:47] Speaker 3: Mr. Waters, I can't tell you specifically about that. I don't think so, but I may have. [00:32:57] Speaker 1: Did you have that tan blackout and a 12-gauge shotgun on that golf cart when you drove down there? [00:33:02] Speaker 3: No. [00:33:03] Speaker 1: You didn't? [00:33:04] Speaker 3: No. [00:33:05] Speaker 1: Did you see them when you were down there? [00:33:07] Speaker 3: No. [00:33:08] Speaker 1: No. So we got you back around 8:49, and you're leaving at 9:02, correct? And you didn't see any weapons down there. You just happened to be back there. You didn't hear anything at all. Did you hear anything at all, Mr. Murdoch, during that time period? [00:33:22] Speaker 3: No, I did not. [00:33:23] Speaker 1: You didn't? Didn't you tell law enforcement that you thought you heard them pull up? Didn't you tell law enforcement that? [00:33:29] Speaker 3: No. [00:33:30] Speaker 1: I did think they had pulled up. All right. So you did think that? [00:33:33] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:33:34] Speaker 1: All right. So now you're saying there was a car pulling up? [00:33:36] Speaker ?: No. [00:33:37] Speaker 1: You didn't testify to that yesterday, did you, in your new version of events that you had [00:33:41] Speaker 3: to construct? [00:33:42] Speaker 1: No. [00:33:43] Speaker 3: I don't. Mr. Waters, I don't believe there was a car pulling up. [00:33:46] Speaker 1: Okay. But that's what you told law enforcement, didn't you? [00:33:48] Speaker 3: No. I told law enforcement that I thought they had pulled up. [00:33:51] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:33:52] Speaker 1: All right. But you're saying you couldn't hear blackout shots, supposedly, but you could hear that, [00:33:57] Speaker ?: correct? [00:33:58] Speaker 3: I didn't say I couldn't hear blackout shots. But I'm saying that I thought when I got up from taking a nap, if I took a nap, but when I got up from laying down, as I was getting ready to go to my mom's, there was a point in time where I thought Maggie and Paul had come back. [00:34:23] Speaker 1: You also told them that you thought you heard a wildcat, but maybe it was a person or something like that as well? [00:34:31] Speaker 3: No. That's not what I said. [00:34:33] Speaker 1: What did you say then? [00:34:34] Speaker 3: I said when I went outside that there's a house cat that's gone wild, and he hangs around. He goes from hanging around the shop, goes from hanging around the house, different times. You might, and there'll be times you don't see him. And he had been around the house. And when I went outside, I believe that cat was over there. [00:35:00] Speaker 1: Okay. And you made a point in mentioning that to law enforcement. [00:35:03] Speaker 3: I never thought it was a person. All right. [00:35:05] Speaker 1: But you made a point in mentioning that to law enforcement, correct? [00:35:09] Speaker 3: In the course of discussing it, I did tell them that. [00:35:13] Speaker 1: But you never told them all this new story that you've constructed in light of this trial. Is that correct? [00:35:18] Speaker 3: I did not tell them that I went to the kennel. I lied about that. [00:35:21] Speaker 1: And at the same time, you also looked at this jury and tried to tell them that you had been cooperative in this investigation. [00:35:28] Speaker 3: Other than lying to them about going to the kennel, I was cooperative in every aspect of this investigation. [00:35:41] Speaker 1: Very cooperative, except for maybe the most important fact of all, that you were at the murder scene with the victims just minutes before they died. [00:35:53] Speaker 3: Right? I did not tell them that I went to the kennel. I did not tell them that I went to the kennel. [00:35:59] Speaker 2: The jury will take a break at this time for about 15 minutes, talking to the jury. [00:36:12] Speaker ?: The jury will take a break at this time. The jury will take a break at this time. The jury will take a break at this time. The jury will take a break at this time. The jury will take a break at this time. The jury will take a break at this time. The jury will take a break at this time. [00:36:19] Speaker 1: The jury will take a break at this time. The jury will take a break at this time. The jury will take a break at this time. [00:36:22] Speaker ?: The jury will take a break at this time. The jury will take a break at this time. [00:36:24] Speaker 1: The jury will take a break at this time. [00:36:25] Speaker 3: The jury will take a break at this time. [00:36:26] Speaker 1: The jury will take a break at this time. The jury will take a break at this time. The jury will take a break at this time. [00:36:29] Speaker 3: The jury will take a break at this time. The jury will take a break at this time. The jury will take a break at this time. The jury will take a break at this time. [00:36:33] Speaker 1: The jury will take a break at this time. The jury will take a break at this time. The jury will take a break at this time. The jury will take a break at this time. [00:36:37] Speaker 3: The jury will take a break at this time. [00:36:38] Speaker 1: The jury will take a break at this time. The jury will take a break at this time. [00:36:40] Speaker ?: The jury will take a break at this time. The jury will take a break at this time. [00:36:42] Speaker 3: The jury will take a break at this time. The jury will take a break at this time. The jury will take a break at this time. [00:36:45] Speaker 1: The jury will take a break at this time. The jury will take a break at this time. The jury will take a break at this time. The jury will take a break at this time. The jury will take a break at this time. [00:36:50] Speaker 3: The jury will take a break at this time. The jury will take a break at this time. [00:36:52] Speaker ?: The jury will take a break at this time. The jury will take a break at this time. [00:36:54] Speaker 3: The jury will take a break at this time. The jury will take a break at this time. The jury will take a break at this time. The jury will take a break at this time. [00:36:58] Speaker ?: The jury will take a break at this time. The jury will take a break at this time. The jury will take a break at this time. [00:37:01] Speaker 1: I'm going to move this thing along. I'm going to put up on the screen states 519, which is the condensed timeline. Mr. Griffin. You see that up there, Mr. Murdoch? Yes. All right, I'm on page 5. You see that cell tower on that there? [00:38:22] Speaker 3: That's up on my screen. Yeah. I do see that. [00:38:26] Speaker 1: Would you agree with me that it reflects no cell tower activity on your phone from 652 to 904? I do agree with that. Let me ask you this, Mr. Murdoch. Did you take your phone with you down to the kennels according to the new facts that you're testified to yesterday and today? [00:38:49] Speaker 3: I must not have. [00:38:50] Speaker 1: You must not have? [00:38:51] Speaker 3: If this is accurate. No, sir. [00:38:53] Speaker 1: Is that typical for you? Sure it is. [00:38:55] Speaker 3: Absolutely. Okay. [00:38:57] Speaker 1: Tell me why that's typical. [00:38:58] Speaker 3: If and when I'm going. Now, it would be unusual if I was going out for any extended period of time or if I was going, even on the property, if I was going somewhere for an extended period of time, I would usually have my phone. But for me to go knowing that I'm going to the kennel and coming right back, that's not unusual at all. I mean, there's very -- you've heard the testimony about the service out there. The service is terrible. You have to be in a particular spot. [00:39:28] Speaker ?: Right. [00:39:29] Speaker 3: And you have to find a spot. [00:39:31] Speaker 1: So the answer is you don't know whether or not you took it down there. [00:39:35] Speaker 3: I believe that I probably didn't based on this data. [00:39:38] Speaker 1: Based on this. But unlike your photographic memory about other things, you don't remember whether or not you had your phone on you. [00:39:44] Speaker 3: Mr. Waterser, I've never claimed to have a photographic memory. But I do not specifically remember if I had my phone that night. I do not dispute it based on these -- on this data. And that's not unusual for me. [00:39:57] Speaker 1: Just like you don't remember, according to your new story, the last conversation you had with Maggie. [00:40:06] Speaker 3: No, I remember -- I remember having my last conversation with Maggie. [00:40:12] Speaker 1: Looking at this screen, you have the map up there. We're on page six. And it shows you arriving back at Moselle at 6:42. You don't dispute that now, is that correct? [00:40:25] Speaker 3: No, that's -- that's what the -- this data appears to show. [00:40:29] Speaker 1: And then looking at the data, moving on to page seven, you have Paul arriving about 7:04. Is that correct? You don't have any reason to dispute that? [00:40:46] Speaker 3: Well, that's what it says he's arrived at 4147 Moselle Road, which is the address of the shop. The house is 4157. I believe that Paul actually got there a little bit before that. But I think that's approximately accurate. I think Paul got there a little bit closer to seven o'clock. [00:41:16] Speaker 1: You would agree that that's the earliest data point that reflects his presence in Moselle? [00:41:21] Speaker 3: If that's what the records show. [00:41:23] Speaker 1: You don't dispute that? [00:41:25] Speaker 3: I don't dispute that. If that's the earliest data point. But again, I believe he got there a little bit earlier. And I tried to look at these records to see if I could -- if that could be refuted. And I believe he got there a little closer to seven or a little bit before seven. [00:41:43] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good point. You looked at these records a lot before you had your testimony yesterday and today, didn't you, Mr. Murdoch? [00:41:49] Speaker 3: I've looked at these records other than the OnStar records that just came when they were provided to me. Sure, I've looked at them. [00:42:01] Speaker 1: Right here, we have some steps on your phone, 29 steps. And then down at the bottom, we have 89 steps. Is that consistent when you and Paul were together on the property? [00:42:16] Speaker 3: I mean, sure, we would go to different locations on the property. Sometimes we would get out. Sometimes we wouldn't. We'd get out and walk around. We'd look at stuff. We'd do things. For example, you saw me messing with the tree. There'd be other ones. We may get out and look at a feeder. There may be other ones. We'd get out and look at hog signs, where hogs are rooting. So, it would be perfectly consistent with what Paw Paw and I were doing that day. [00:42:46] Speaker 1: And 805 to 809, would you agree that that's the last steps recorded on your phone before 902 when you become a very busy bee? [00:43:05] Speaker 3: If that's what these records show. I see I took steps. As records show, I took steps between 805 and 809. [00:43:15] Speaker 1: All right. So, would you concede then that you're at the house around 809? [00:43:24] Speaker 3: I would have thought so, yes. [00:43:26] Speaker 1: Okay. And you said Paul was already back at that point? [00:43:29] Speaker 3: No. I said just the opposite. [00:43:32] Speaker 1: When did he get there? [00:43:35] Speaker 3: All right. Are you talking about when I left the shop and went to the house when Maggie was there? [00:43:41] Speaker 1: Yes, before you ate dinner. [00:43:43] Speaker 3: No. As I said earlier, Paul and I were at the shop. Maggie got home, I left Paul at the shop, and I went to the house. I think you were saying that I said I met Paul at the house, and that's incorrect. Paul was still down at the shop when you were at the house, correct? When I first went to the house, Paul was still at the shop, I believe. All right. [00:44:04] Speaker 1: And was Maggie there when you arrived at the house? [00:44:06] Speaker 3: Yes, I believe she was. [00:44:08] Speaker 1: All right. And 809 is the last steps that you have on this phone before 902, correct? [00:44:13] Speaker 3: That's what the data shows. [00:44:16] Speaker 1: Looking now at page 15. I'm sorry, page 14. Your steps that you say when you got to the house is 809 and Paul was still down at the shop. But don't these records reflect that Paul is pinging with GPS data at the house at 808? [00:44:52] Speaker 3: This record appears to show Paul at the house at 808. All right. [00:44:57] Speaker 1: So those records don't fit with your news story that you've testified yesterday and today. Is that correct? [00:45:06] Speaker 3: No, I don't believe even right now, Mr. Waters, that that's right. I'm not saying -- what you're doing is you're taking 809 and saying that I'm at the house. And, I mean, that may or may not be right. But what I'm saying is that when Maggie came through, I left, and I believe that Paul stayed at the shop. Now, did Paul come right behind me? I'm not sure. But when I left him, I believe that -- when I left to go to the house, I believe that Paul stayed at the shop for a minute. [00:45:39] Speaker 1: When you got to the house, did you put your phone down? [00:45:42] Speaker 3: I'm sure I did. [00:45:43] Speaker 1: Did you put it in the car, in the Suburban? Did I put it in the Suburban? When you got back to the house, did you put it in the Suburban? Was the Suburban parked out front? [00:45:54] Speaker 3: The Suburban would have been parked wherever I parked it. [00:45:58] Speaker 1: Which is where? I believe on the side. [00:46:01] Speaker 3: Okay. [00:46:02] Speaker 1: And did you put the phone -- your phone in the Suburban? [00:46:05] Speaker 3: At that time? No, I did not. Where did you put it? [00:46:08] Speaker 1: I'm not sure where I put it. [00:46:09] Speaker 3: You're not sure about that either, huh? [00:46:11] Speaker 1: No, I'm not sure. [00:46:12] Speaker 3: When I went in the house, I'm not sure where I put my phone. I would think that I -- you know, I would think that I put it down somewhere, probably by the couch. [00:46:21] Speaker 1: Didn't you testify yesterday when you were being asked by your lawyer about that pause at Almeda when you were leaving? And you had a very specific recollection of your phone. It had fallen down in the crevice and you had to pick it up and get it out. Do you remember testifying to that? I do. But you don't remember what you did with your phone when you got back at this point, huh? [00:46:39] Speaker 3: I mean, Mr. Ward, those are two distinct, different things. I'm coming in the house and I put my phone down. I don't have a routine spot that I put it in right on this corner or right there. You know, I would assume that when I went in the house, I put it somewhere either on the table. You go by going to the couch. I may have taken it to the bathroom when I took a shower. It may have taken me a few minutes to go to the shower. So I can't tell you exactly where I put it. [00:47:15] Speaker 1: You know, this hospital story is an awful specific recollection when you need it to try to make the new story that this jury's hearing and everyone's hearing yesterday and today with the data. Correct? But you're awful fuzzy on far more important things, aren't you, Mr. Murdoch? [00:47:33] Speaker 3: Which question? Here, I'll answer the first one first. No, I don't believe that's convenient. And I disagree with your categorization of the description. [00:47:45] Speaker 1: All right. But you remember the console story, but you don't remember where you put your phone, whether or not you took it down to the kennels, whether you put it in the Suburban. Don't remember any of that. But, dadgummit, you remember that console story, correct? [00:47:59] Speaker 3: Well, I don't remember the console story. But, you know, in that Suburban, and it's not the first time that it happened, but when that phone got down there, you had to go to great efforts to get it out and you couldn't just reach over there and get it out. [00:48:16] Speaker 1: All right. You say when you got to the house that Maggie was already there? Yes. [00:48:21] Speaker 3: Okay. [00:48:22] Speaker 1: And we saw your last steps were at 8:09. [00:48:27] Speaker 3: Well, that's what you saw when this data recorded my last steps. But as you heard this testimony, too, Mr. Waters, you know, that's not a precise – that's not a precise – you heard the testimony, you know what it is. [00:48:45] Speaker 1: Well, how did you get back to the house? Remind us. [00:48:48] Speaker ?: From the shop? [00:48:49] Speaker 3: Yeah. [00:48:50] Speaker 1: I went in the white pickup truck. Went in the white pickup truck. Okay. And when you got in the house, where did you go? [00:48:57] Speaker 3: We've already discussed this. I took a shower, whether I did things for a moment before I went to the shower. I'm sure I talked to Maggie because she'd been gone. And if she came through the kennel, which I believe she did, we only talked briefly. So I would have talked to her, but I would have quickly gone to take a shower. [00:49:18] Speaker 2: Okay. [00:49:27] Speaker 1: Going over to page 16. You would agree with me that the data reflects Maggie start logging steps and her phone disconnecting from the Mercedes around 8:17, correct? [00:49:42] Speaker 3: I agree. At 8:17, her phone ends connection to her Mercedes. [00:49:49] Speaker 1: And starts logging steps. I don't see that, but I don't dispute it. Well, you see the purple line talking about it disconnecting from the Mercedes. I do see it. I see where you're talking about. So yeah, I see it. [00:50:00] Speaker 3: At 8:17, her phone starts logging steps. I agree with that. [00:50:03] Speaker 1: Okay. So would you concede that that appears to be when she arrived? [00:50:08] Speaker 3: No, I don't believe that's when she arrived. I believe that, I mean, it was very normal for Maggie when she's driving to jump out of the car, run inside, go to the bathroom, do things, and either send me or Paul or go back, or Buster, or go back to her car herself and unplug her phone. So, I mean, I agree that's when her phone's unplugged, but I believe that Maggie got to the house a little bit before that. That's the whole reason why Paul and I went to the house. Okay. [00:50:41] Speaker 1: But you're saying Paul arrived after Maggie, is that what you're saying? At the house. I believe so, yes, sir. [00:50:49] Speaker 3: Okay. That's what I recall. And Paul arrived at the house after I arrived at the house. I believe. And if Paul got to the house around about that same time, he wasn't inside with Maggie and I when I went to get to the shower. [00:51:29] Speaker 1: So you say if Paul got, he wasn't inside with Maggie and you? Is that what you said? Mr. Murdock, is that what you said? Sir. You said if Paul got the house prior to that, he wasn't inside with you and Maggie. Is that what you said? [00:51:47] Speaker 3: I'm saying he was not inside when I went to get in the shower. Okay. [00:51:52] Speaker 1: All right. Again, looking back at this data point, 808, we see a little blue dot right there in the middle of the house, don't we? [00:52:02] Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what these records show. Okay. And it also shows that circle that folks testified to, what the range of, what it could be within. Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, it clearly could be. [00:52:21] Speaker 1: Look at that circle. Look at what's right in the middle of that circle. Almost like somebody drew a circle around the house, don't you agree? [00:52:30] Speaker 3: Yeah, I do. But also in that circle is where you would park a truck if you pulled up. All right. So, you know, and I'm not saying that he wasn't in the house at some point in time there, but when I went to get in the shower, he wasn't in the house. And he very easily could have been there and been parked in the yard. All right. [00:52:54] Speaker 1: Do you agree at the bottom of page 16 that about 8:30, Maggie starts tracking steps again on her phone? [00:53:10] Speaker ?: Yes, sir. [00:53:11] Speaker 3: That's what the data shows. All right. [00:53:15] Speaker 1: I think that's the wrong button. And you would agree with me that about 8:38, Paul's phone shows him back up at the kennels. [00:53:43] Speaker 3: Yes, sir. I agree that at 8:38, let me see which one. It's hard for me to figure out which one of these rings. But at 8:38, it shows Paul in whichever one of those rings is 56 meters wide. And I have no reason to believe he wasn't at the kennel. Okay. [00:54:11] Speaker 1: And then 8:44, 55, we've already gone through this, but that's the kennel video, right? Yes, sir. [00:54:16] Speaker 3: That's correct. [00:54:17] Speaker 1: And you would agree with me that it lasts about 50 seconds, correct? Yes, sir. [00:54:25] Speaker 3: I agree with that. [00:54:27] Speaker 1: And you would agree with me, moving on to page 19, that both Maggie and Paul's phones lock for the final time around 8:49. [00:54:37] Speaker 3: That's what the data shows. [00:54:39] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:54:40] Speaker 1: After that, you agree that Maggie's phone around 8:53 shows some steps being taken? That's what the data shows, yes, sir. Data doesn't show who's carrying it, but that's what it shows. Is that correct? [00:54:59] Speaker 3: That is correct. All right. [00:55:01] Speaker 1: And then you would agree with me that from 9:02 to 9:06, your phone finally comes to life and it starts showing a lot of steps. [00:55:15] Speaker 3: I do agree with that. [00:55:18] Speaker 1: What were you doing? [00:55:19] Speaker 3: I was getting ready to go to my mom's house. Getting ready to go? [00:55:22] Speaker 1: I thought you'd take a shower already. You were just laying down on the couch. What all you need to do to get ready to go to your mom's house? [00:55:27] Speaker 3: I mean, there wasn't anything to get ready in that aspect, but I was getting ready to go. I was preparing to leave. Doing what? I don't know if I got up. Went to the bathroom. I don't know. I can't tell you exactly what I was doing. [00:55:40] Speaker 1: That's far more steps in a shorter time period than any time prior, as you've seen from the testimony in this case. So what were you so busy doing? Going to the bathroom? [00:55:50] Speaker 3: No, I don't think that I went to the bathroom. Did you get on a treadmill? No, I didn't get on a treadmill. [00:55:55] Speaker 1: Jogging place? No, I didn't jog in place. Did you do jumbajacks? [00:55:58] Speaker 3: No, sir, I did not do jumbajacks. [00:56:00] Speaker 1: What were you doing, Mr. Murdock, for those four months? [00:56:03] Speaker 3: Preparing to leave for my mom's house. What? [00:56:07] Speaker 1: What does that mean? I mean, you're in the front room on that couch where you say you laid down. The Suburban's just right outside. What all are you doing? [00:56:14] Speaker 3: I don't know if I got up and went to my room, went to the gun room, went back in that. Doing what? [00:56:20] Speaker 1: You've been so clear in your new story about everything. What were you doing during these four minutes? [00:56:25] Speaker 3: I disagree with your assertion about every detail. I don't recall. I know that I was getting up and I was leaving. I was going to check on my mom. But specifically what I was doing, I don't know. I know what I wasn't doing, Mr. Waters, and what I wasn't doing is doing anything as I believe you've implied that I was cleaning off or washing off or washing off guns, putting guns in a raincoat, and I can promise you that I wasn't doing any of that. Okay. [00:57:08] Speaker 1: Also, during this four minutes where you've got 283 steps, not only are you moving around a lot, but you're making a ton of phone calls. Because in that same time period, you see this red line right here, where over that four-minute period all those steps were taken? That's also when you're calling and making all these phone calls, isn't it, Mr. Murdoch? [00:57:30] Speaker 3: Okay, well, I made the phone calls. [00:57:31] Speaker 1: Someone coming to the place and making phone calls? [00:57:33] Speaker 4: Is that what you're doing? You should be allowed to answer before Mr. Waters steps on him again with another question. Please. Thank you. All right. [00:57:43] Speaker 1: You were making all these phone calls while you were taking all these steps. Would you concede that, where you don't remember what you were doing? [00:57:55] Speaker 3: Well, I was making phone calls that show on here. At 9:05, I called my dad. You know, I don't know that I was taking steps like you're saying I'm taking steps. I heard the same testimony you heard, Mr. Waters, and, you know, steps can be recorded any number of ways. I don't have a specific recollection of walking around. I don't know if I was hitting my phone like the guy showed or doing whatever that makes steps. [00:58:22] Speaker 1: So you were hitting your phone like that while you were making all these phone calls? [00:58:26] Speaker 3: No, sir. What I'm saying, Mr. Waters, I don't know that. I'm just giving you an example. You're saying that I'm running around taking these steps and while I'm doing that I'm making telephone calls. What I will agree with is that this data shows that there was 283 steps recorded on my phone. And sometime during that period, I made certain phone calls. [00:58:52] Speaker 1: Okay. All right, so not only for whatever it is, it's recording steps, but you're also making a ton of phone calls, including missed calls to Maggie, who is 1,100 feet away, supposedly. [00:59:09] Speaker 3: You're using the term a ton of phone calls. Yeah. What I agree is that I made the phone calls that are listed on these call data records, which, you know, are very normal phone calls for me. [00:59:22] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. Do you know why so many phone calls were missing from the log around this relevant time period when law enforcement downloaded your phone on June 10th? [00:59:36] Speaker 3: From my phone? [00:59:37] Speaker 1: Yeah. [00:59:38] Speaker 3: No, I don't. [00:59:39] Speaker 1: Did you delete them, Mr. Murdock? [00:59:41] Speaker 3: Not intentionally. [00:59:42] Speaker 1: Just around the time of June 7th, all these calls were missing, but you had nothing to do with that between June 7th and June 10th. [00:59:50] Speaker 3: No, sir, I did not, and I did not delete phone calls from my phone. Mr. Waters, one of the most important things in this whole thing for me has been getting this data that I believe would exist. Phone calls and phone records would be part of that. I've been in enough civil cases and used phone records enough times to know that you delete a phone call from your phone, it doesn't disappear. So I can tell you, this jury, and everybody who's listening that I did not intentionally delete phone calls from my phone. [01:00:31] Speaker 1: Yeah, because you started talking about the -- you're a former prosecutor, correct, and former lawyer doing civil cases. We went through that yesterday, and, boy, you're a busy bee on that phone right out of the gate at 9:02, right? Yeah, the comments. Objection's overruled. [01:00:48] Speaker 3: Am I a busy bee? Yeah. I am using my telephone at -- I think I call at 9:05, I start and call my dad, and I agree that I made other phone calls. [01:01:03] Speaker 1: And one of the first things you start talking about with law enforcement is these calls that you made to Maggie, correct? Do you recall that from your first statement to law enforcement? [01:01:14] Speaker 3: One of the first things that I said to law enforcement? [01:01:17] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's one of the things you talk about. I'm talking about with your interview with Special Agent Dave Owen. [01:01:22] Speaker 3: I don't remember that being the first thing we talked about, but -- One of the first things. If Mr. Owens asked me about it, then I -- [01:01:31] Speaker 1: No, you brought it up, didn't you? [01:01:33] Speaker 3: I did. [01:01:34] Speaker 1: You don't recall? [01:01:36] Speaker 3: No, I don't recall. [01:01:38] Speaker 1: Would you dispute me if I said you brought it up? [01:01:40] Speaker 3: That I brought up -- brought up what? [01:01:43] Speaker 1: Your phone, Mr. Murdock, your phone. Phone calls to Maggie? [01:01:46] Speaker 3: Yes. That I brought up phone calls to Maggie to David Owens. [01:01:50] Speaker 1: I'm asking you, is that one of the things that you talked about in your first interview with Dave Owen? That you pulled out your phone and started looking at it, that you brought that up? Do you recall that? [01:02:02] Speaker 3: Well, but that's not what you asked Mr. Owens. You asked me was that the first thing that I talked to him about, and that was the discrepancy. I certainly don't dispute that Mr. Owens and I talked about phone calls. [01:02:15] Speaker ?: Yeah. [01:02:16] Speaker 3: But that's not what you said, so just to be clear. [01:02:19] Speaker 1: Well, the real reason, Mr. Murdock, is that you as a lawyer and prosecutor are up at 902, finally having your phone in your hand, moving around, and making all these phone calls to manufacture an alibi? Is that not true? [01:02:38] Speaker 3: That's absolutely incorrect. [01:02:40] Speaker 1: So that's just another circumstance and coincidence in this particular case. Right around the time that you lied to law enforcement about maybe one of the most important facts in the case. [01:02:53] Speaker 4: Yeah, I can do it. Could you comment before the question? [01:02:56] Speaker 3: It is an absolute fact that I am not manufacturing an alibi, as you say. [01:03:02] Speaker 1: How do you remember so much detail about everything else, but you don't remember what you were specifically doing to generate 283 steps while you're making all these phone calls in the same four-minute period? [01:03:13] Speaker 3: I remember unequivocally, without any doubt, with as clear a mind as I could have at any time that I never manufactured any alibi in any way, shape, or form, because I did not and would not hurt my wife and my child. And my child. [01:03:35] Speaker 1: So why can't you remember what you were doing? [01:03:36] Speaker 3: So I know for a fact that I never, ever, ever created an alibi. [01:03:41] Speaker 1: Why don't you remember what you were doing when you were so busy for this four-minute critical period? I do remember what I was doing. Other than I was getting ready to go. [01:03:53] Speaker 3: Because that's what I was doing. [01:03:59] Speaker ?: Okay. [01:04:12] Speaker 1: Well, let's keep going. You made those calls to Maggie in that four-minute period. You had just seen them a few minutes ago when you say you went down there and came right back. Why didn't you just take that quick little lift 1,100 yards away and stop by? See why they didn't answer the call. You're obviously wanting to get in touch with them. Why didn't you go down to the kennels that were so close by? [01:04:55] Speaker 3: There was no reason to. I mean, Maggie -- [01:05:02] Speaker 1: Making multiple missed calls to Maggie and she's so close. And there's a driveway right there. Why do you not just go down there and say, hey, guys, I'm heading over there? [01:05:11] Speaker 3: It wasn't important to do that. Me making those phone calls is simply me letting -- I believe I called Maggie and I believe I called Paul. But that's simply me just letting them know that I'm leaving for a minute. I'll be back. The fact that they don't answer is not unusual at all. Now, it is odd, it is unusual that they never called me back. But at that moment, the fact that there's a missed call when I know they're on the property, I mean, that doesn't even register at all. That's perfectly normal to try to call somebody who's on the property and not be able to get them. And as far as not going down there, there was no sense of urgency. Maggie was with Paul. You know, she should be as safe as she could be. [01:06:14] Speaker 1: And she should be. Did you talk with Maggie about going to Almeda when you were at the kennels? [01:06:35] Speaker 3: No, I don't believe I did. [01:06:37] Speaker 1: Did you talk with Maggie about going to Almeda during supper? [01:06:42] Speaker 3: I know that we had talked about it. I had talked -- I don't believe we talked about it at supper, but we may have. I know that I had talked about that I was going to go over there. And then I decided that I wasn't going to go over there. So what was your conversation at supper? [01:06:58] Speaker 1: Tell me specifically, if you could, please, about going to Almeda. [01:07:03] Speaker 3: I can't tell you that we specifically talked about it. The only thing that I can tell you we specifically talked about at supper was Paw Paw. [01:07:11] Speaker 1: All right. And what was the conversation? [01:07:14] Speaker 3: Maggie was just concerned. Paw Paw had been having, for a young person, Paw Paw had been having high blood pressure. And he's very resistant to go to the doctor. And this has been going on for a little while. But lately, Paw's feet had swollen. And for a 22-year-old to start having swollen feet concerned both of us. And it particularly concerned Maggie. And we talked about that. [01:07:52] Speaker 1: Okay. Did you all talk about Mr. Randolph at all? I'm sure we did. Do you remember that group text coming in about whether or not anybody was going to go see Mr. Randolph at the hospital the next day? [01:08:07] Speaker 3: Do I remember it coming in? Yeah. I don't remember it coming in. [01:08:10] Speaker 1: Because you didn't read it until the next day. [01:08:12] Speaker 3: I've seen the data. [01:08:13] Speaker 1: Why didn't you, did you ever text the group and say you were going to Almeda at all? [01:08:19] Speaker ?: No. [01:08:20] Speaker 1: Did Maggie ever, did you and Maggie ever specifically discuss her going along with you to Almeda? [01:08:29] Speaker ?: I don't believe that we did. [01:08:30] Speaker 3: I know that there was a point in time where I said Maggie might go. But it's highly unusual for Maggie to go and visit just my mom. And it, it, that whole situation, it just made, it made Maggie sad. And she didn't like to go. So. [01:08:52] Speaker 1: You, um. [01:08:53] Speaker 3: I don't believe that we did. But I do acknowledge that at some point I said she might go for some reason. [01:08:59] Speaker 1: You told law enforcement on multiple occasions that, first of all, Maggie was planning a stay at Edisto the night of June 7th, correct? I did say that. [01:09:09] Speaker 3: All right. [01:09:10] Speaker 1: And you also said that you came to find out that she came home of her own accord, correct? You told that to law enforcement. Is that true? [01:09:19] Speaker 3: She did come home of her own accord. [01:09:21] Speaker 1: That she decided on her own to come home because she was worried about you. Isn't that what you said? I did say that. [01:09:27] Speaker 3: I did say that and I, I believe that to be the case. [01:09:30] Speaker 1: All right. But since we, despite what you told law enforcement, we've since seen the text that you actually called her and asked her to come home on the night of June 7th. [01:09:40] Speaker 3: No, sir. That's not correct. [01:09:42] Speaker 1: That's not correct. [01:09:43] Speaker 3: No, sir. That's absolutely not correct. [01:09:45] Speaker 1: All right. So you heard your sister-in-law Marion testified in just that fact of a conversation she had with Maggie, but you're saying that's not true? I don't believe that's what Marion said. All right. And your defense put in this exhibit, exhibit 107, where Maggie texted Blanca and said Alec wants me to come home. I've seen that. I agree with that. Is that up on the screen? Oh, I've got the wrong input here. I'll just hold it up. You've seen this text? I have seen that. [01:10:12] Speaker 3: Mr. Waters, the only dispute I have with what you're saying is you're saying that I called Maggie and wanted her to come home. I always wanted Maggie to come home, and I would have talked to Maggie about coming home before she ever left to go to Charleston and to Edisto. And I can tell you this. And I didn't realize this at the time, but I realize it now, that Maggie was already undecided. Now, I didn't know this, but Maggie was already undecided about staying at Edisto. I can promise you that because Bubba and Grady were in their kennels, as y'all well know, that night, that day. If Maggie was certain that she was spending the night at Edisto, at a minimum, Bubba would have been with her, and probably both dogs would have been with her. It was very unusual for her to spend the night anywhere without one of us or those dogs. So that tells me that when she left that morning, she was already seriously thinking about coming back. [01:11:34] Speaker 1: So you're saying that you never called her and had a conversation that day, asking her to come home specifically on the night of June 7th, 2021? [01:11:43] Speaker 3: Maggie and I had a couple of phone conversations that day. What I'm telling you is that before she left -- no, I don't believe we had a phone call about that. We may have discussed it during the phone call, but I didn't make a phone call to her to ask her to come home. I had already told her I wanted her to come home. I always wanted her to come home. You heard Marion say that too, that I always wanted Maggie with me. [01:12:08] Speaker 1: Maggie thought enough of it to talk about it with Marion, didn't she? [01:12:12] Speaker 3: The fact that I wanted her to come home? The fact that I wanted her to come home? [01:12:15] Speaker 1: That's correct. [01:12:18] Speaker 3: Well, sure. I mean, that's what Marion said. [01:12:21] Speaker 1: So you're denying that you called Maggie and specifically asked her to come home that night? [01:12:25] Speaker 3: I didn't make a phone call to Maggie to ask her to come home that night. I asked Maggie to come home long before she ever left. And I probably asked her again each time I talked to her, but I didn't make the phone call specifically for that, as you're saying. And to be clear, I'm certain that if Maggie was certain that she was spending the night, Bubba would have been with her and probably Grady. [01:13:12] Speaker 1: Why did you tell law enforcement, though, that you found out after the fact that Maggie wanted to come home because she was concerned about you? Why don't you phrase it that way if what you're saying to the jury now was accurate? Why would you phrase it that way? [01:13:30] Speaker 3: Because I believe that would be the case. [01:13:32] Speaker 1: That you found out afterwards, but now you're saying you knew. [01:13:34] Speaker 3: No, I'm saying I found out afterwards why she came home, Mr. Waters. Okay. And she came home because she was worried about me. So I'm going to be clear about that. I did not learn that until I think the day after she got killed. [01:13:54] Speaker 1: But you're saying that you found out that after the fact that you're telling this jury that you knew the things that you just said about her wanting to come home. And you were unaware of what Marian would say at that point either. [01:14:08] Speaker 3: No, I'm saying at that time, I had not thought about Bubba and Grady. Since that time, I've thought about that. I'm certain of that. At the time, I thought Maggie was staying at Edisto. All right? She was going to Edisto to meet the people, to do the work. Maggie loved to stay at Edisto. There's no doubt about that. It would not be unusual at all for her to stay at Edisto. But just like every other time, I had already asked her, please come back. Come back. Always wanted her to stay with me. Always. But I did not learn about -- and Maggie even texted me, I'll see you in a few hours. But I did not know why she decided to come back until later, is what I'm saying. And I learned it from Blanca. Blanca actually showed me the text that she sent her, talking about being worried about me. [01:15:29] Speaker 1: You would agree with me that you sent a text to Maggie at 908-58 while in motion in the Suburban, as reflected by the data? [01:15:45] Speaker 3: I do. Which was because I couldn't reach them by the telephone, and I wanted them to know where I was. Okay. Which is what we do. [01:16:08] Speaker 1: And you got to Almeda around 9:22? [01:16:13] Speaker 3: I believe that's correct. [01:16:14] Speaker 1: I can go down to it. [01:16:16] Speaker 3: No, I don't have any reason to dispute that. [01:16:36] Speaker 1: You made some more phone calls along the way? [01:16:41] Speaker 3: I did make more phone calls along the way while I was riding. [01:16:45] Speaker 1: You called Chris Wilson? [01:16:47] Speaker 3: I did call Chris Wilson. [01:16:49] Speaker 1: I had a short conversation with him. Is that right? [01:17:05] Speaker 3: I did have a conversation for however long the record show. [01:17:10] Speaker 1: About 131 seconds. Does that sound about right? [01:17:14] Speaker 3: If that's what the records show. Two minutes. [01:17:17] Speaker 1: Called your brother, John Marvin, for about 106 seconds, including connection time. Does that sound about right? [01:17:22] Speaker 3: That does sound about right. [01:17:32] Speaker 1: Arrived at 9:22. Does that sound about right? [01:17:35] Speaker ?: It does. [01:17:37] Speaker 1: And then at 9:24, you call. That's the landline at Almeda, is that correct? [01:17:56] Speaker 3: That is correct. [01:17:58] Speaker ?: And then you went inside. [01:17:59] Speaker 1: Is that right? Yeah, that's right. [01:18:04] Speaker 3: That's right. [01:18:06] Speaker ?: That's right. [01:18:07] Speaker 3: I called the house phone to get Shelly to let me in. [01:18:10] Speaker 1: And when you were asked by law enforcement how long you were at your mother's house, you said 45 minutes to an hour. Isn't that correct? [01:18:19] Speaker 3: I think I said a couple of different things, but I think at one time I did say that. But, you know, routinely through these things, I kept saying, you know, when you get this data, you'll see exactly. When you look at my phone, you'll see exactly, when you do, you know, so, you know, me giving the times was always given with the thought that, okay, there's own star out there, there's whatever. [01:18:51] Speaker 1: When you had a conversation with Ms. Shelly after the fact, you actually asked her to say that you were there longer than 20 minutes. [01:19:01] Speaker 3: You know, I heard Shelly's testimony. I believe Shelly to be a good person. I wasn't trying to influence Shelly on any particular length of time because at the beginning of this, I believed that data would show what data would show. And for me to tell her to say something when my own star is going to show something different just doesn't make any sense. So, you know, I can't answer that. But the recollection is, is that I told Shelly that law enforcement will be talking to her. We may have discussed how long I was there. At that point in time, if I thought I was there 45 minutes, I may have said I was here 45 minutes, but, you know, I can't tell you. [01:19:54] Speaker 1: All right. And that's the same thing that Blanca testified to, that you talked to her about the clothes that you were wearing. It made her uncomfortable, correct? [01:20:08] Speaker 3: Ask that question again. [01:20:10] Speaker 1: It's similar to your conversation with Blanca that she testified about when you talked to her about the clothes that you were supposedly wearing. [01:20:19] Speaker 3: What made her feel uncomfortable? [01:20:20] Speaker 1: Do you remember that testimony, sir? [01:20:22] Speaker 3: What's similar to that? [01:20:24] Speaker 1: Well, that you're talking to both of these individuals about their testimony in a manner that's inconsistent with what they know. [01:20:30] Speaker 3: No, I don't, I don't think, I don't think your assertion is accurate. You have to understand this. On August the 11th, when I went to meet with David Owens, and in that, David Owens asked me about, he showed me that Snapchat and asked me about clothes that I had on. And shortly after that, the next time I was with Blanca, I asked Blanca about those clothes because David Owens had asked me about them. He made an issue about it, and so I checked with Blanca to see what I specifically asked Blanca, and it was an issue to me. So I got Blanca and I said, I need you to sit down and talk with me about this. [01:21:26] Speaker ?: This is important. [01:21:27] Speaker 3: Do you remember my clothes when you came to Moselle that day? And she remembered exactly what she testified to. She remembered that my pants were there. She wasn't sure if the shirt was there. At that time, I think she actually thought the shirt was there, but she was clear that she wasn't sure about that. But, oh no, no, she wasn't unsure, but she didn't remember, but assumed that it was. So that was the conversation that, and why I was asking Blanca. [01:22:04] Speaker 1: Oh, again, you're very specific about your memories of that conversation. Is that correct, Mr. Murdoch? [01:22:08] Speaker 3: You're dang right I'm consistent about that, because a very short time before that, David Owens is asking me questions and telling me I'm a suspect in the murder of my wife and my child, and asking me about my clothes. You're dang right it was important. It was important, right. And you're dang right I remember why I went to her and for what reason. [01:22:34] Speaker 1: The only thing you're concerned about is yourself. You're not concerned about giving accurate information to law enforcement, correct? What's the reason for that, Mr. Murdoch? Why don't you want to give accurate information to law enforcement? Why do you want to talk to these women who both are employed by you or your family and try to influence what they are going to say? [01:22:55] Speaker 3: I did want to give law enforcement accurate information. I told a lie about being down there, and I got myself wed to that, but I wanted to give them as much, I knew that I hadn't done this, and I wanted to give them as much accurate information as I could. But the reason I went to Blanca is specifically because David Owens is talking to me on August the 11th. [01:23:38] Speaker 1: I can see that you're underway about 9:42, heading back. 9:42 to 9:43. [01:23:47] Speaker ?: I do. [01:23:47] Speaker 1: I do. [01:23:48] Speaker 3: I do. [01:23:49] Speaker ?: I do. [01:24:16] Speaker 3: Turned on Moselle about 10:01. Turned into Moselle at 10:01? Yeah. Sorry. Looks to me like I turned into Moselle at 10 o'clock. 10 o'clock on the dive, sir. Yes, sir. [01:24:46] Speaker 1: At the house at 10:05? Yes, sir. That's when you went back to the kennels, after you came back from Almeda, correct? [01:25:07] Speaker 3: I went to the kennels after I went to the house. I went from Almeda to the house, to the kennels. [01:25:15] Speaker 1: And we got to the scene, you got out of the car, according to what you told law enforcement, repeatedly and went and checked the bodies, correct? Before you called 911. Is that correct? No, sir. That's not correct. [01:25:40] Speaker 3: You're saying you didn't say that to law enforcement? I don't know what I said to law enforcement, Mr. Waters, but I can tell you this. I pulled up, and I saw Agent Paw Paw. I jumped out of that car. I know that I went back to my car, and I called 911 as quickly as I could. At that point in time, when I got on the phone, then is when I went to them and did the things that I did. [01:26:19] Speaker 1: So, what you're saying is not accurate. You're saying that you didn't say very specifically to law enforcement that you went to them prior to calling 911? [01:26:32] Speaker ?: When? [01:26:33] Speaker 1: After you got out of the car, you told law enforcement repeatedly that you went over and checked the bodies before you called 911. [01:26:42] Speaker 3: No, I don't. If I did say that, I don't believe that's accurate. Did I check Maggie and Paul before I called 911? Correct. No, sir. That's not accurate. At least, that's not what I remember. [01:26:59] Speaker 1: That's not what you remember saying, or that's not what you say now happened? [01:27:03] Speaker 3: No, that's not what -- that's not what I believe happened. [01:27:08] Speaker 1: Okay. But you don't deny that's what you said? [01:27:13] Speaker 3: Did I said -- did I check Maggie and Paul before I called 911? Correct. I don't believe that's what I said. No, I know I checked them, but I don't believe I checked them before I called 911. I can pretty well remember vividly. When I checked Paw Paw, I was already on the phone with 911. I was already on the phone with 911. Looking at this data. [01:28:07] Speaker 1: Does it show the vehicle parking at 10:05 in 55 seconds? [01:28:16] Speaker ?: Yes, sir. And 10:05 in 10:05, 57. The Suburban arrives at the Kennels. Do you agree with that? Yes, sir. The Suburban arrives at the Kennels. Do you agree with that? Yes, sir. I'm sorry to say that again, Mr. Warden. Yes, sir. I'm sorry to say that again, Mr. Warden. At 10:05. Yes, sir. The Suburban arrives at the Kennels. [01:28:24] Speaker 1: Do you agree with that? I'm sorry to say that again, Mr. Warden. At 10:05, 57. It shows the Suburban arriving at the Kennels. Yes, sir. The Suburban arrives at the Kennels. [01:28:33] Speaker 3: Do you agree with that? [01:28:34] Speaker ?: I'm sorry to say that again, Mr. Warden. At 10:05, 57. It shows the Suburban arriving at the Kennels. [01:28:37] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. The Suburban arrives at the Kennels. [01:28:39] Speaker ?: I'm sorry to say that again, Mr. Warden. [01:28:40] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. The Suburban arrives at the Kennels. [01:28:42] Speaker ?: Yes, sir. [01:28:42] Speaker 1: The Suburban arrives at the Kennels. [01:28:43] Speaker ?: Yes, sir. The Suburban arrives at the Kennels. [01:28:45] Speaker 3: Yes, sir. The Suburban arrives at the Kennels. Yes, sir. The Suburban arrives at the Kennels. [01:28:49] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. 10-05-57. It shows the suburban arriving at the kennels. [01:29:02] Speaker 3: Okay. Okay. [01:29:06] Speaker 1: The 911 call was at 10-06-14. [01:29:11] Speaker 3: Okay. [01:29:12] Speaker 1: Just about 20 seconds later. Do you agree with that? [01:29:19] Speaker 3: I think that sounds right. Yes, sir. I mean, that makes sense. But that goes back to what I'm saying is I pulled up. I saw. I saw them. And I know I jumped out of my car. But I believe that before I checked them, in fact, I'm almost certain. Then I went back and I got my, that's when I went and got my phone and I called 911. And then, after I called 911, they, I mean, there was a little while where there wasn't, I don't think there was anything going on. And I believe that that is the time period that I went and checked on them. [01:30:36] Speaker 1: I don't want to belabor this point, but then what you're saying here today, now that we have this data, that's not exactly how you expressed it to law enforcement in your prior statements. Is that correct? [01:30:44] Speaker 3: No, sir, I disagree with that. I totally disagree with that, Mr. Waters. Will you point to what you're talking about? [01:30:54] Speaker 2: Sure. [01:31:24] Speaker 4: Where's the person? [01:31:54] Speaker 5: All right, sir. [01:32:20] Speaker 4: All right, Ms. Murdoch, state your full name for him, please. Richard Alexander Murdoch. [01:32:48] Speaker 6: And it's not your last name, so I'm going to be correct. M-U-R-D-A-U-G-H. All right. And you go by Alec? Yes, sir. And date of birth, Mr. Murdoch? May 27, 1968. [01:33:09] Speaker 5: And we'll do a phone number for you. [01:33:12] Speaker 3: 803-942-1227. [01:33:18] Speaker ?: All right, sir. [01:33:23] Speaker 5: And sir, what was your name? [01:33:26] Speaker 6: Yeah, Danny Anderson. [01:33:28] Speaker ?: Okay. [01:33:36] Speaker 5: All right. As I stated, I'm David Owen and Laura Rutland with Conalcon County. I'm with Sled. I hate to have to do this. I understand. [01:33:47] Speaker 3: I totally understand. Yeah. So you don't have any problem with it. [01:33:53] Speaker 5: So just start at the top. Take your time. [01:34:00] Speaker 3: Like, when I came back here, I mean, I pulled up and I could see him. And, you know, I knew something was bad. I ran out. I knew it was really bad. [01:34:11] Speaker 6: Come on, my boy. Over there, I could see it was. I'm sorry. And I could see his brain. [01:34:41] Speaker 3: And I ran over to Maggie. Actually, I think I tried to turn Paul over first. [01:35:02] Speaker 6: You know, I tried to turn him over. And I don't know. I figured it out. His cell phone popped out of his pocket. [01:35:11] Speaker 3: I just started to try to do something with it, thinking maybe. But then I put it back down really quickly. Then I went to my wife. [01:35:22] Speaker 6: And I mean, I could see. [01:35:31] Speaker 5: Did you touch Maggie at all? [01:35:33] Speaker 6: I did. I touched him both. Okay. I tried to take. I mean, I tried to do it as limited as possible. But I tried to take their pulse on both of them. [01:35:47] Speaker 3: And, you know, I called 911, pretty much right away. [01:35:54] Speaker 6: And she was very good. [01:36:01] Speaker 3: I talked to her. I told her I was going to get off the phone to call some family members. [01:36:10] Speaker 4: I did that. [01:36:18] Speaker 5: And what family members did you call him? [01:36:20] Speaker 3: I called my brother, Randy. And I called my brother, John. And I tried to call a little boy, a real good friend that's right around the corner from here. But I didn't get him. [01:36:35] Speaker 6: The person you didn't name, I was rubbing the little boy right around the corner. [01:36:46] Speaker 1: Is that who you were talking about? That's correct. [01:36:49] Speaker 3: But going back to your question, I mean, that's the way I remember it, what I said right there. And, you know, your question about did I do these things before I called 911, that's not what I said then. [01:37:10] Speaker 1: So you're saying now that you went out, you checked, you came back at your phone, and that's when you called 911? [01:37:19] Speaker 3: I'm not saying that now, Mr. Woods. I am saying that now. But to me, that's what I said then. I mean, I told her I called 911 right away. I didn't have – there was no time to do the things that I'm talking about doing in the time between getting there. And calling 911. [01:37:42] Speaker 1: When you talked about calling Rogan, and you said that he lives right around the corner, correct? [01:37:47] Speaker 3: That's correct. [01:37:49] Speaker 1: But Rogan wasn't staying there at the time. That's the whole reason that Cash was at your kennel, right? You knew that. [01:37:56] Speaker 3: Well, Rogan was staying in Buford a lot, but he was home a lot too. I didn't know where Rogan was on a daily basis. [01:38:04] Speaker 1: Did he have to talk to you about keeping his dog Cash at the kennels when he was staying with his girlfriend and working down in Buford? [01:38:11] Speaker 3: Yes. He had asked me that. But, I mean, that had been some time before. I didn't know – you're making a big deal about this, Mr. Waters, but that particular night, I didn't have a clue where Rogan was staying or not staying. I was trying to find somebody to come out there with me. I'd called Randy. I'd called John. And Rogan was the next best alternative. Okay. And Rogan is so close. I mean, Rogan – of all these kids that you've heard, Rogan Gibson – Roro is like a – Rogan, you prefer when I call him Rogan, is truly like a son to Maggie and I. And he was such a good friend to Buster, and he was such a good friend to Paul, and you've been through everything I have. You'll see that two weeks or three weeks prior to this, I ran out of gas when Bust and Pawpaw weren't home, and Rogan's the person that I called to bring me gas. [01:39:20] Speaker 1: Nobody's disputing any that Rogan would have helped you. Let me keep playing this. [01:39:26] Speaker 5: It was round, Paul, when you walked up. Blood. Any other – anything else? [01:39:34] Speaker 3: I mean, there was some body thing. [01:39:37] Speaker 5: Yes, sir. I mean, like any other evidence? I know you said the phone fell out of the pocket, but did you see anything else that didn't belong or shouldn't belong or that wasn't part of Paul? [01:39:51] Speaker 4: No, sir. Not – no, not – no, sir. [01:39:57] Speaker 5: How about Maggie? No, sir. You didn't see anything around them? What made you come out here tonight? [01:40:07] Speaker 3: I went to – my mom's a late-stage Alzheimer's patient. My dad's in the hospital. My mom gets anxious when she does. I went to check on them, and Maggie – Maggie's a dog lover, and she fools with the dogs. And I knew she'd gone to the kennel. I was at the house. [01:40:36] Speaker 1: You just testified that in the wake of this, you didn't know what you said to law enforcement? That was what you just said? [01:40:46] Speaker 3: No, I mean, I know – I know a lot of what I said to law enforcement, but there's a lot of things in looking back at this video for one, the 911 call for one. I mean, there's a lot of things that I didn't remember. [01:41:04] Speaker 1: Okay. But right then and there, just – not long into this interview, you made a conscious decision to lie right there. Play that again? You said I was at the house. [01:41:31] Speaker 3: And I knew she'd gone to the kennel. I was at the house. I left out. We played it. [01:41:39] Speaker 1: You want me to back it up some more? [01:41:41] Speaker 3: Well – [01:41:41] Speaker 1: Yeah, we can keep listening to it. [01:41:43] Speaker 5: Anything I've read now. What made you come out here tonight? [01:41:50] Speaker 3: I went to – my mom's a late-stage Alzheimer's patient. My dad's in the hospital. My mom gets anxious when she does. I went to check on them and Maggie. Maggie's a dog lover. And she fools with the dogs. And I knew she'd gone to the kennel. I was at the house. [01:42:14] Speaker 1: You want to hear it again? No, sir. But I don't – Well, you made a conscious decision to lie right there, this early into an interview, sitting in the front seat, correct? I don't believe so. You didn't make a conscious decision to lie? [01:42:25] Speaker 3: I don't believe that – I don't believe that was lying at that point. [01:42:29] Speaker 1: Okay. Tell me why not. [01:42:33] Speaker 3: Because Maggie had gone to the kennels and I was at the house. [01:42:36] Speaker 1: Okay. So you think you were being – that was not a lie at that point? [01:42:41] Speaker 3: I don't believe so at that point. [01:42:43] Speaker 1: At what point did you decide to lie? [01:42:45] Speaker 3: I'm not sure, but it was in that – [01:42:47] Speaker 1: It was in this interview? I believe that it was. Okay. Was this interview where you're sitting in the front seat, correct? It is. You're not in custody, correct? I'm not in custody. They're giving you water, letting you chew tobacco, treating you politely, correct? [01:43:02] Speaker 3: They were treating me very politely. [01:43:03] Speaker 1: So what was it that clicked? So you said it's in this interview that it clicked that I'm going to lie about the most important fact that I know? [01:43:11] Speaker 3: I'm not sure exactly when in it that I lied, decided to lie, but I believe it was during this interview. I believe all those things that I talked about, you know, those things that had gone on, the things that people had said to me about don't talk to anybody without a lawyer, partners all told me that. Or a lot of my partners told me that my dear friend, Chief Alexander was one who said that I overheard. I believe it was Sheriff Hill. I'm not positive. I overheard him tell, I believe, Mark Baller Gray-Holmes, don't let him talk to anybody without a lawyer. And what I believe is that based on my distrust of SLED and getting in that interview, and I'm not positive about this, but I believe when he asked me, you know, about my relationship with my wife and my son, I believe that's when I decided to lie. But I'm not positive. [01:44:14] Speaker 1: You also left out when you had the GSR, too, because that's what you testified to yesterday. [01:44:17] Speaker 3: That certainly contributed. [01:44:19] Speaker 1: And your dope paranoia, too, you said that as well, correct? [01:44:22] Speaker 3: Well, those things are what triggered the paranoia that started as my addiction evolved. [01:44:32] Speaker ?: Right. [01:44:33] Speaker 1: And so you're an experienced lawyer, and you've been a prosecutor, and you took the advice of your law partners that you should have a lawyer there as you read that as, oh, I should lie. No, that's not an accurate statement. Because that's not what that means, is it, Mr. Murdoch? [01:44:52] Speaker 3: Well, that's not an accurate statement, what you just said, Mr. Waters. [01:44:59] Speaker 1: I just repeated what you just said. You said one of the factors was your law partners, and now you're blaming Sheriff Hill and Greg Alexander, told you that you needed a lawyer before you talked to police, and you took that somehow as meaning I need to lie? No. As a lawyer and a prosecutor? [01:45:17] Speaker 3: No, that's what you said, Mr. Waters, but I... [01:45:20] Speaker 1: How am I mischaracterizing it from your perspective, Mr. Murdoch? Because I think that's, isn't that what you heard? Isn't that what you just said? Excuse me. No, sir. [01:45:28] Speaker 3: That's not what I said. All right, well, say it again. I believe those guys were trying to help me. I believe they cared about me. I believe they thought that I was in a condition such that I shouldn't talk to anybody. I mean, those guys had to prop me up, help me get myself together just to be able to go talk to David Owens. I mean, they were trying to help me, but before that, that was just one of the many things that I believe led to that situation sitting in there where those paranoid thoughts came to me. Them talking about not talking to anybody without a lawyer, Brian Varnado, checking my hands, the fact that I got a pocket full of pills in my pocket, I was the person who found Maggie and Paul. My distrust for SLED, all of those factors combined and made me decide to lie. I also know him asking me about Maggie and Paul Paul contributed to that paranoia. All I'm saying is I'm not disputing that I lied. I'm just saying at this point, you're saying I made a conscious decision to lie here, and I'm saying I don't think I made a conscious decision right there. [01:47:06] Speaker 1: Okay. So it's lighter? I believe so. Had you already had your GSR done at this point? [01:47:10] Speaker 3: Yes, sir. [01:47:11] Speaker 1: Okay. I had. And you already talked to your law partners and talked to and heard Sheriff Hill, now you're blaming him and blaming Chief Alexander now as well for your lies? [01:47:22] Speaker 3: No, sir, Mr. Waters. [01:47:23] Speaker 1: You just added that one. You didn't say that yesterday. You just added that one. Can you please be given the opportunity to answer the question? Objection. [01:47:34] Speaker 2: Mr. Waters, I'm not blaming anybody. [01:47:43] Speaker 3: I accept full responsibility for what I did. What I'm saying is what I believe contributed to me doing that and the reason why I did that. I think those folks were trying to help me, so I don't blame them. I think they were worried about me. [01:48:05] Speaker ?: Okay. [01:48:06] Speaker 1: I don't dispute that, but you're saying you took that advice as I need to lie. [01:48:10] Speaker 3: No. What you're doing is you're isolating one single thing. [01:48:14] Speaker 1: I'm not isolating anything. I've mentioned all the factors. You've added some new ones, but I've mentioned all the factors that you're blaming for your decision to lie. [01:48:20] Speaker 3: That's not what you did. What you asked me is you said I took my partners telling me not to talk to somebody without a lawyer as a reason to lie, and that's an inaccurate statement. That was one of the factors that went into a series of events that caused me to have paranoid thinking, and then I lied. [01:48:50] Speaker 1: All right. But at some point it happened during this interview that you crossed over. You're saying that you came into this interview intending to be fully disclosing to everything, and something happened in this interview that sent you over the edge, and you said, hey, let me lie about the last time I saw my wife and child alive, supposedly, according to me. [01:49:12] Speaker 3: I certainly didn't go into that interview, I believe, intending to lie. Mr. Waters, I wasn't capable at that point in time of planning anything or thinking through anything. [01:49:25] Speaker 1: So somehow during this interview, all of a sudden, the census came to you to plan and do that? [01:49:33] Speaker 3: When I got to thinking in that paranoid way that normally, as I said, I mean, I could take a deep breath and make it go away. I never had a situation where it lasted more than a matter of seconds. That night, after all those things had happened, it didn't go away in a matter of seconds. And I decided to lie. [01:50:09] Speaker 1: Those are the clothes that you ultimately gave to Dave Owen, is that right? [01:50:13] Speaker 3: Those are the clothes I gave to David Owen. [01:50:16] Speaker 1: At what point did you be able to chuck the pills, you say, are in your pocket? When did you do that? When I was in my bedroom. When you're in the bedroom? Yes, sir. Where'd you put them? [01:50:27] Speaker 3: I'm not sure where I put them, but ultimately, they would have gone in my suitcase. [01:50:32] Speaker 1: So that's when you did it? Do you have a specific recollection of that? No, I don't. [01:50:36] Speaker 3: I just know that I took them out of my pocket. [01:50:38] Speaker 1: If we watched this whole video, you think you could, if we watched the whole thing, you think you can say, okay, that's the moment where my census came to me and I decided I was going to tell this major lie? [01:50:49] Speaker 3: I don't know that it happened like that, but I may be able to tell you some things that contributed to it. We watched the whole thing. [01:50:58] Speaker 1: We've heard that. I just want to be clear, though. At least on this one, at some point during this interview, when you were able to plan your lie about this event. And you made that decision. But it wasn't what we just played. It wasn't yet. It was some point after that. [01:51:47] Speaker 3: I don't think that's a lie right there is the reason why I don't think that this occurred before this, because what I'm saying there, I believe to be truthful. And I know this, I know for a fact that when David Owens asked me about my relationship with my wife and my child, I know that that played a role in that. And I believe that, and I may be wrong, but I believe that this was before that. [01:52:18] Speaker 1: You ever heard the expression, not telling the whole truth is the same as telling the lie? Sure I have. Is that something you understood as a lawyer and a prosecutor? [01:52:30] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:52:37] Speaker 2: All right. [01:52:51] Speaker 4: All right, Ms. Murdoch, can you state your full name for him, please? Richard Alexander Murdoch. [01:53:07] Speaker 5: And it's been your last name, so I'm going to get it correct. [01:53:10] Speaker 6: M-U-R-D-A-U-G-H. All right. And you go by Alec? Yes, sir. All right. And date of birth, Mr. Murdoch? [01:53:24] Speaker 4: May 27, 1968. [01:53:28] Speaker 6: And I'll give a phone number for you. 803-942-1227. All right, sir. [01:53:42] Speaker 5: And, sir, what was your name? [01:53:45] Speaker 6: Yeah, Danny Andrews. [01:53:47] Speaker ?: Okay. [01:53:51] Speaker 5: All right. As I stated, I'm David Owen. And I'm Laura Rutland with Conorfin County. I'm with Sled. I hate to have to do this. I understand. [01:54:06] Speaker 3: I totally understand. So you don't have any problem with it. [01:54:12] Speaker 1: You hadn't decided to lie right there, correct? [01:54:28] Speaker 3: I don't believe so. [01:54:29] Speaker 1: You told David Owen that you understood that he had to ask questions and you do what you need to do, correct? [01:54:39] Speaker 3: That is what I told him. [01:54:49] Speaker 1: Ron, this might be a good time for a break. All right. [01:54:52] Speaker 2: One o'clock. Ladies and gentlemen, addressing the jury. We'll break until 2.15.