Accused Mom Clashes With Prosecutor During Heated Testimony

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: This is States Exhibit 11. What is that? [00:00:05] Speaker 2: That is the picture of my child's liver. [00:00:08] Speaker 1: Your child's liver. That's quite a laceration, isn't it? It is. It is. And you heard the testimony that it would be 24 to 72 hours out. So either Monday morning to Saturday morning, correct? Correct. [00:00:21] Speaker 2: And he was just telling you his stomach hurt? He was pointing at one point saying my stomach hurts and that's all. [00:00:29] Speaker 1: You heard Dr. Isenstatt say this is a serious injury, right? I did. And that quite a bit of force would be needed in order to cause that injury. That is correct. So Monday he was just okay? [00:00:42] Speaker 2: Monday he was throwing up. I was at work all day Monday. So I did not see him all day. I almost saw him. And I had a period of time when I returned home for lunch. And I returned home after 5 p.m. [00:00:53] Speaker 1: Okay. And he was hurting overnight though, wasn't he? No. He wasn't. [00:01:00] Speaker 2: Overnight what day? Sunday. Sunday, no it was not. [00:01:03] Speaker 1: Now you said just a minute ago that you stand by the statements that you gave columns, correct? Correct. And in your first statement, you told him that the symptoms started Sunday night. [00:01:14] Speaker 2: I told him that on Sunday, he told me that mommy my stomach hurts and that was all. That was not your first statement. It was my first statement too. But we all washed it. We did. And they can wash feet. They can. Yes, they can. Yes, they can. So Monday he's throwing up. Is that right? Monday, when I got home from lunch, I suspected that what was on the door was a puddle of juice. I did not suspect at that time that it was thrown up until after he threw up with me after I returned home from out of here. But you didn't take his calls for help seriously, did you? I did take it as seriously as I could when I was presented and looked at Michelle. [00:02:00] Speaker 1: I think you had said that he had never thrown up like that before. [00:02:03] Speaker 2: He has thrown up. He has thrown up like that before. But he's a crybaby, isn't he? He's a crybaby in the sense of he would tell me or he would cry if something was seriously wrong with him. He would tell you if something was seriously wrong with him? Is it? Is it? Is it pointing or making, like I testified or like I said, he wasn't at a point where he could say 4% of his death, so it would be right and it's like this, this, this, this, this, mommy, this, mommy, that. [00:02:35] Speaker 1: Well, is it a 2-inch laceration to a 2-year-old's liver serious? Yes. It's very serious. That's why he died, right? Correct. But he didn't say, point, he wasn't crying, he just, it wasn't really alarming to you, was it? [00:02:52] Speaker 2: He was not crying. He was not crouching over. He was not holding his stomach. He was not doing anything except for saying mommy's stomach hurt and vomiting and juice. [00:03:01] Speaker 1: And you expect Gary to believe that a 2-year-old crybaby, who you said cried over everything, who had a 2-inch laceration of his liver, wasn't really crying? [00:03:10] Speaker 2: I expect him to believe what I saw and what I presented. When did you break up with Keon? Me and Keon ended our relationship around February of September 1. Why? Because. Because. Because why? Because he did. I mean, we just broke up. That was our first time dating. And 2, all of this was going on. So I, it was really a lot for me to even try to be in a relationship with anyone or focus on anything other than my child in this case. [00:03:48] Speaker 1: And you knew him, right? Correct. And you repeatedly denied that he would have done anything to your child. That's correct. But you denied that you did anything to your child. Absolutely. And the timeframe, as we've all heard, is that you and Keon were the only people who had access to him. [00:04:07] Speaker 2: During Sunday to Monday. Right. Correct. [00:04:12] Speaker 1: Right. Other than the Saturday that you were at your father's house. Correct. But he was fine that day. [00:04:16] Speaker 2: He was running around. And then Sunday is when does that feel well? Sunday night is when he first mentioned mommy on Sunday. Okay. And then it's Monday? Monday after I got home from work. Okay. [00:04:36] Speaker 1: But you say Keon would never do anything like that. That is correct. But you denied having done this thing. That is correct. So who would have done it if the only two people were he and you? [00:04:47] Speaker 2: That is a good question. So we just don't know. We don't. Considering, and I will say this, nurses, they've all testified that my child would not have bruises on his body when he was presented to them. He says Tuesday morning. So according to that time frame that you're trying to give me, by Tuesday morning, if something like this would have happened, he would have absolutely shown bruises or something on his body to a complete staff of medical professionals. And every one of them got on this stand and testified that they saw nothing. So I also did not see anything to a point where I thought that I needed to rush my child to an emergency room after hours after everyone was already off. [00:05:41] Speaker ?: I did not get home from work until five o'clock. That is after hours. I would have had to make an after hours appointment. [00:05:47] Speaker 2: I did not choose to do so because that was the first time that my child had grown up in my presence. And I believe that keeping him home would have suffice for enough time for us to be able to monitor him and then decide from there what we needed to do. So you said you didn't see anything? I did not see anything. Right. At some point you said you gave him a bath and he complained his balls hurt. I was washing his balls, scrubbing his balls, obviously, because he had through up on himself. And he said, ouch, and I assumed that it was because I was rubbing his balls too hard. [00:06:22] Speaker 1: Well, and I'm looking at Stacy's exhibit 10, which is a picture of that very region of his body. Correct. Okay, so he said, is that not kind of a weird place to have a pain? Not while I'm running it, though. Okay. So you never saw the injury? [00:06:39] Speaker 2: I never saw the injury. You had no idea? I never saw the injury. [00:06:44] Speaker 1: What about the injury to his chief? [00:06:58] Speaker 2: I was not aware of anything against his chief. No, you didn't tell Sergeant Collins that that was from a hickey? I did not tell him it was from a hickey. I told him that me and my child often kiss each other and like to suck on each other's faces. And is that what caused that mark? I have no idea. So it could be from you sucking on your child's face? If he had a video of me sucking on his face. If he had a video of me sucking on his face. [00:07:23] Speaker ?: If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. [00:07:35] Speaker 1: If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. [00:07:56] Speaker 2: If he had a video of my child's face. [00:07:57] Speaker 1: If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. [00:08:00] Speaker 2: If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. [00:08:24] Speaker ?: If he had a video of my child's face. [00:08:25] Speaker 2: If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. [00:08:51] Speaker ?: If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. [00:08:54] Speaker 2: If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. [00:09:19] Speaker 1: If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. [00:09:22] Speaker 2: If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. [00:10:04] Speaker 1: If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. [00:10:10] Speaker 2: If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. If he had a video of my child's face. [00:10:32] Speaker 1: But I guess my point is. Is that. On the first interview. That you gave Colin. She told him. That the kid was throwing up. Carter was throwing up Sunday. It wasn't until a month later. [00:10:41] Speaker 2: A couple weeks later. That you told him. Oh now it's Monday. I did not. And also. I spoke with Mr. Collins. The first time. The day after my child. Had died. So I was completely. Discooperated. That's the feeling. Okay. [00:10:56] Speaker 1: And so you had. Kind of no idea. What was going on. You were just monitoring conditions. But Carter's just happy as he made. I'm monitoring his conditions. Yes. [00:11:04] Speaker 2: Right. And Carter's fine. From my understanding. He is not yet thrown up in my prison. Okay. So why doesn't Kadeem. Get to FaceTime his child. Me and Kadeem. Were going through a. Obviously a. Court battle. And he was annoying me. So I blocked his number. He could still contact me. Via either email. Or he could call my child's tablet. He was annoying me. By trying to figure out. His overpayment of child support. Why would. He be overpaying. For child support. That doesn't even make any sense. You heard his testimony. Why would he give you money. For child support. If he knew that he was overpaying. I mean he provided. His response. He gave me money. That is correct. So that would not be overpaying. That is a father's theory. I'm giving you the money. Stop emailing me. [00:11:48] Speaker 1: No. You can't get her talking to Carter. Leave him. And that's the last time I'm going to tell you. Correct. All right. So. But you heard. Kadeem's testimony. About how you would block him. When you got mad. But that he would always get to see his child. Face time. Or talk to him. [00:12:06] Speaker 2: You also heard him say. That he can only get his child. During the time in which he's off work. So that would mean. That he would have to be off work. From his part time job. And his job at the car station. Which is not something that. He can just say. I'm off. It's. Based on his schedule. [00:12:20] Speaker 1: I'm not talking about. His work schedule. And whether or not. He is to keep Kadeem. I'm talking about the fact. That his testimony. Was that. Even when he would block him. When he would be mad at him. He would still see his child. On Face time. Or be able to call the child. And now. The weekend. When your child's. Suffering a lacerated liver. All of a sudden. He can't see his child. [00:12:40] Speaker 2: No. I called him. On Monday. And asked him. If he could watch the child. [00:12:45] Speaker 1: Right. You called him Monday. At what time? [00:12:48] Speaker 2: When I got off work. When he threw up in my arms. Okay. After he's been sick. For a while. I saw him throw up. For the first time. That moment. You saw him throw up. For the first time. At that moment. [00:13:02] Speaker 1: When he was in your arms. Correct. [00:13:04] Speaker 2: He threw up. [00:13:05] Speaker 1: With me. Okay. And that was. When? [00:13:09] Speaker 2: Or where? Monday in the kitchen. [00:13:11] Speaker 1: Monday in the kitchen. [00:13:12] Speaker 2: After. Yes. [00:13:14] Speaker 1: After I got off work. Okay. So. We had the red flag. In the middle of the night. Was that? [00:13:20] Speaker 2: That was after. That was after. Okay. Alright. So. You called the demons. To come get him. I called the demon. Asked him. If he could take off work. [00:13:30] Speaker 1: To watch him. That full day. And monitor him. And then. After the fact. You blamed him. For this. Right? No. You don't recall saying that. You heard Kadeem say that. [00:13:42] Speaker 2: That may be his feelings. I've got nothing to do with that. [00:13:45] Speaker 1: What do you mean. You have nothing to do with that. It's a conversation between you and him. No. [00:13:49] Speaker 2: It's a conversation between you and him. Or him and his own thoughts. That has nothing to do with me. So Kadeem's just making stuff up. What would he be making up? He said out of his mouth. If he would've gotten the child. It probably wouldn't have happened. I had no control over that. All I could do was pick up the phone. And ask my child's father. Can you watch your child? And considering that she had just been calling me. For two days. Asking me if you could see the child. I would suspect that she would. Assurely want to watch the child. Especially knowing that he was sick. But he told me no. Or. None of this would've happened. That the finger would've been pointing at him. No. I don't know what you're referring to. Right. [00:14:14] Speaker ?: While we're out there. I don't know. While we're out there. That the finger would've been pointing at him. No. [00:14:18] Speaker 2: I don't know what you're referring to. Right. While we're out there. I don't know what you're referring to. [00:14:23] Speaker ?: I don't know what you're referring to. [00:14:24] Speaker 2: I don't know what you're referring to. [00:14:25] Speaker ?: No. I don't know what you're referring to. I don't know what you're referring to. I don't know what you're referring to. [00:14:29] Speaker 1: I don't know what you're referring to. I don't know what you're referring to. [00:14:33] Speaker 2: I don't know what you're referring to. Why would I tell him that. He's my child's father. He's never. Why would you tell me what. Why would I tell him that. None of this would've ever happened. If he had been watching my child. Well. If the child died on his watch. We pointed the finger at you. We didn't know the child was injured at the time. You didn't know. [00:15:00] Speaker 1: No. No. Just all this throw up. My tummy hurts. Correct. Mm-hmm. And you stand by your statements. That Keon would never do this. [00:15:18] Speaker 2: I stand by my statements. That no one around me would ever harm my child. Mm-hmm. [00:15:29] Speaker 1: So. If. Monday. He's throwing up. Why didn't you just. Make an appointment from them. [00:15:36] Speaker ?: I asked. For my. Child's father. Who is an EMT. Mm-hmm. And a firefighter. To watch. His sick child. He. [00:15:45] Speaker 2: Is fully. Medically. [00:15:47] Speaker ?: Trained. To watch. His own. Child. He is medically trained. [00:15:52] Speaker 2: To take care. Of anyone. [00:15:54] Speaker ?: Who is in. An emergency situation. So. Yes. I went to him. First. Before I. Take him to the doctor. Well you didn't take him to the doctor. [00:16:04] Speaker 2: Correct. I did not have time. He passed away at. 8:40. That. Or 9:30. [00:16:10] Speaker 1: That next morning. Right. [00:16:12] Speaker 2: Well he was sick in the morning. Wasn't he? [00:16:14] Speaker ?: That morning. [00:16:15] Speaker 2: Right. And that's my morning. [00:16:17] Speaker ?: And I FaceTimed him. [00:16:18] Speaker 2: And I. Told Keon. To rush him. To the doctor's office. Which was next door. [00:16:23] Speaker 1: So after you couldn't. Pawn off Keon. Or. To Kadeem. [00:16:27] Speaker 2: You wanted. To leave him with Keon. Don't. Pawn him off to his own father. How is that? [00:16:32] Speaker 1: This injured child? Yes. [00:16:34] Speaker 2: Yes. So you just go to work. At the time. He was injured. At the time. The only thing that he was presenting to us. Was throw up. Throw up. And his stomach hurt really bad. Not really bad. Mommy. My stomach hurt. [00:16:46] Speaker 1: Not really bad. A two inch lacerated liver. But he's telling you. His stomach. Just hurts. It's not really bad. He's not crying. [00:16:53] Speaker 2: Nothing. He is not crying. I work with children. I would have suspected someone. Of this magnitude. To be crouching over. To be holding his stomach. To be indicating something. Of pain. I think we all would. [00:17:09] Speaker 1: So when. Kadeem doesn't. Take. Carter. You don't make a doctor's appointment for him. It's. [00:17:16] Speaker 2: At this point. Around seven o'clock. And after hours. Is what you would have to do. In order to get an appointment. You would have to call the number. And if you get an appointment. They will then. Tell you that you can come in. At a certain time. The next day. Mm-hmm. So there's no instance. Where he would have been able. To see any medical professional. Unless I call 911. That day. Urgent care is open. I don't know about urgent care. Emergency room is open. You did not present any symptoms. Where I felt like I needed to take her to. And that's not what I asked you. I asked you it was an emergency room open. I'm assuming. You're assuming. I'm assuming. [00:17:43] Speaker ?: You're assuming. [00:17:43] Speaker 2: I'm assuming. Emergency rooms are open. They're not open 24 hours. I'm assuming they're open 24 hours. I'm assuming they're open 24 hours. You assume. That's not something that you just know. You're just guessing that that's true. I don't work for emergency rooms. I don't know. And neither do I. But I don't need to work for an emergency room. To know. I don't need to work for an emergency room. To know. That's not something that you just know. You're just guessing that that's true. I don't work for emergency rooms. I don't know. And neither do I. But I don't need to work for an emergency room. To know. That I can go there anytime. Right. Right. [00:18:08] Speaker 1: So you do know that. You can go to an emergency room at any time. That's basic information. And if you had called to a doctor. Chances are. We would have gotten a recording. [00:18:14] Speaker 2: And said this is after hours. If this is an emergency. [00:18:16] Speaker ?: Please hang up in the downline window. [00:18:17] Speaker 2: Correct. You do none of that. Why would I need to call 911 for. Vomit or juice. Or go to the emergency room. [00:18:22] Speaker ?: He was vomiting or juice. And this was not the first time that my child had vomited. And the first time that he was vomiting. We could go and see a doctor. And she told me that. Because it could be an allergic reaction. And the first time that my child had vomited. And the first time that he was vomiting. We could go and see a doctor. [00:18:30] Speaker 1: And she told me that. [00:18:31] Speaker ?: Because it could be an allergic reaction. And the first time that my child had vomited. And the first time that he was vomiting. We could go and see a doctor. And she told me that. Because it could be an allergic reaction. [00:18:37] Speaker 2: And the first time that my child had vomited. And the first time that he was vomiting. We could go and see a doctor. And she told me that. Because it could be an allergic reaction. And this was not the first time that my child had vomited. And the first time that he was vomiting. We could go and see a doctor. And she told me that. Because it could be an allergic reaction. That he would eventually get over it. So no. But it is the first time that he vomited in his sleep. And didn't wake up. He did wake up. He did wake up. He did wake up. You just heard them say that. He was on the phone with me. And he was awake. In his sleep. The night before. [00:18:59] Speaker 1: He was vomiting. And he was vomiting. He was vomiting. He was vomiting. [00:19:03] Speaker 2: He was vomiting. [00:19:04] Speaker 1: And this was not the first time that my child had vomited. [00:19:05] Speaker 2: And the first time that he was vomiting. We could go and see a doctor. And she told me that. He was on the phone with me. And he was awake. In his sleep. The night before. In his sleep. The night before. He threw up in his sleep. I took him. And I moved into the other bed. When I got up that morning for work. Which was a couple hours later. He was wide awake. And he was talking. [00:19:25] Speaker 1: When you were on the phone with Keon. When he was taking your dying child. [00:19:33] Speaker ?: To primary mediatrics. Correct? I was on FaceTime the entire time. [00:19:38] Speaker 1: Do you remember any of the statements that y'all made. [00:19:41] Speaker 2: On the phone? [00:19:42] Speaker ?: Statements. [00:19:43] Speaker 2: On the phone. Do you remember any part of that conversation? No. Because I was at that point. Driving from Miller's View. I had ran out of my office. And I was driving from Miller's View. Back to one robin. [00:19:53] Speaker 1: So you don't recall if. Keon said to you. Man, I should have brought him in last night. When you told me to. No. Why would you have told him to take Carter? [00:20:05] Speaker 2: That's a very good question. Because why would I tell him to take him? Right. While he and you did. You did tell him to take him to take him. I didn't tell him to take him. On Tuesday morning. You did. Why would I tell him? He's the only one with him. He said don't worry about that right now. Just get here. Do you recall that? [00:20:19] Speaker ?: I do not. In the daycare. Ms. Shirley, right? How long have you known her? [00:20:22] Speaker 1: I have known her since my childhood. [00:20:23] Speaker ?: Went to daycare. [00:20:23] Speaker 1: And you kind of went to high school. You went to high school with Gazette. [00:20:25] Speaker ?: I did when we did not. [00:20:26] Speaker 1: Can't help me. Until you started bringing Carter to her mom. [00:20:28] Speaker ?: And then you guys kind of had more of a friendly relationship. More of a friendly relationship. No. I never. I never. I never. I never. I never. In the daycare. In the daycare. Ms. Shirley, right? [00:20:37] Speaker 1: How long have you been knowing her? I have known her since my childhood. I went to daycare. And you kind of went to high school. You went to high school with Gazette. [00:20:42] Speaker 2: I did when we did not. Can't help me. Until you started bringing Carter to her mom. And then you guys kind of had more of a friendly relationship. No. I never. I never. In the daycare. In the daycare. Ms. Shirley, right? [00:20:52] Speaker 1: How long have you been knowing her? I have known her since my childhood. I went to daycare. [00:20:55] Speaker 2: And then you guys kind of had more of a friendly relationship. No. I never had any type of relationship. Because they didn't until after my child passed. [00:21:02] Speaker 1: Okay. Until after your child passed. So what was that relationship like? There was no relationship. [00:21:06] Speaker 2: It was more so they had a party. And she invited me over. And I went to her place. And that was the last time that I saw her. So. You took wine to her place, right? I did not take wine. [00:21:18] Speaker 1: So you didn't go to her place to pick up a plate? [00:21:21] Speaker 2: I went to her place. Like I said, they were having a party of some sort. And I went to pick up a plate with you. Yes. [00:21:27] Speaker 1: And you don't even know what kind of party it was? No, I don't. You don't recall it being a Christmas party? No. You don't recall that you took Christmas gifts there? He didn't tell me that he took Christmas gifts there. [00:21:38] Speaker 2: Okay. [00:21:39] Speaker 1: Okay. But who called you and told you that you could get a plate? Gazette. Gazette did? Yes. And you could pick it up from her house? Correct. And you guys didn't discuss any kidding while you were there? No. No. You didn't tell her that you had a lacerated liver? I don't recall, no. Okay. You don't recall? [00:22:01] Speaker 2: Well, you just said that you didn't talk to her at all. And now you're saying you just don't recall if you made that statement. I just said I don't recall telling her that my child's liver was lacerated. I obviously had a conversation with her because I was at her place. [00:22:16] Speaker 1: And you told her that you Googled it? I don't recall telling her that. You don't recall telling her that it could be because he jumped off the couch? [00:22:25] Speaker 2: No, I don't recall telling her anything. But if I did, then I would probably have said what I researched. And you never blanked a key on it? [00:22:39] Speaker 1: No. Well, Ms. Shirley, did you keep in contact with Ms. Shirley after Carter's death? Uh, not. [00:22:48] Speaker 2: No, not really. Other than her checking on me now. So you, I mean, you guys had a discussion though, right? She would check on you. Would she just say, "Are you okay?" And then hang out the phone? [00:22:54] Speaker ?: Or would you guys actually exchange words? I don't recall. [00:22:56] Speaker 1: You don't recall anything? Six years ago. I don't recall anything. Only six years ago. Well, she just testified that that's what happened. That's what she testified. That's not my recollection. She spent a lot of time with your child, didn't she? She watched my child. Pretty much all day in Leskadee. Wasn't at work, right? Right. [00:23:08] Speaker ?: Right. [00:23:08] Speaker 1: She loved your child, didn't she? Sure. And she made, what was it, a pillow? And she was like, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry." [00:23:12] Speaker ?: And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." [00:23:15] Speaker 2: And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." [00:23:25] Speaker 1: And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." [00:23:47] Speaker 2: And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." [00:23:51] Speaker ?: And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." [00:23:54] Speaker 1: And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." [00:24:07] Speaker ?: And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." [00:24:09] Speaker 1: And she was like, "I'm sorry." [00:24:10] Speaker ?: And she was like, "I'm sorry." [00:24:11] Speaker 2: And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." [00:24:17] Speaker 1: And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." [00:24:20] Speaker ?: And she was like, "I'm sorry." [00:24:21] Speaker 1: And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." [00:24:41] Speaker 2: And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." [00:24:53] Speaker ?: And she was like, "I'm sorry." [00:24:54] Speaker 2: And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." [00:24:57] Speaker ?: And she was like, "I'm sorry." [00:24:58] Speaker 2: And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." [00:25:02] Speaker ?: And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." [00:25:04] Speaker 1: And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." [00:25:11] Speaker ?: And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." [00:25:20] Speaker 1: And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." [00:25:22] Speaker 2: And she was like, "I'm sorry." [00:25:23] Speaker ?: And she was like, "I'm sorry." [00:25:24] Speaker 2: And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." [00:25:50] Speaker ?: And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." [00:25:57] Speaker 1: And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." [00:25:59] Speaker 2: And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And she was like, "I'm sorry." And I can understand that he didn't want to have more conversation about his death at this time. [00:26:27] Speaker 1: Well, I don't think that's what I'm referring to. [00:26:30] Speaker ?: Didn't he testify that he told you that he didn't know what he would do when he found out that he was keen on it? Didn't he testify to that? That's what he said. I didn't know. [00:26:40] Speaker 2: I mean, that's personal, emotional. So he's lying to you or what? Lying about what? That's his personal, emotional feelings. He doesn't know what he would do if he found out someone else did something to his child. [00:26:51] Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm referring specifically to the statement of that that he made to you. He said that, right? He did say that. And what was your response? [00:27:02] Speaker 2: I don't know. [00:27:03] Speaker 1: Well, according to his testimony, you defended him. Right? You defended Keon. [00:27:08] Speaker 2: And got mad at Kali. I did not get mad at Kali. All I said was, "I do not believe that Keon would ever harm my child." [00:27:18] Speaker 1: And so we know that Carter had his own bedroom in your apartment, correct? Correct. Okay. [00:27:30] Speaker 2: And that there was kind of this battle between keeping him in his own bedroom? Not a battle. He was sleep trained. He was sleep trained. He was sleep trained? Yes. So I was training him to sleep in his own bed. But he would come and knock on your door or try to find you? Obviously he would get up in the middle of the night and try to come back and sleep in my bed, yes. Okay. We would. What about if you and Keon were in the bedroom with the door closed? We wouldn't be in the bedroom with the door closed. What about, where would you guys smoke marijuana? We did not smoke marijuana in my house. He would smoke outside in the, or on the patio. In the smoke outside on the patio? On the patio. So you never had anything to do with any of that? I never had anything to do with any of that. I never had anything to do with any of that. Did you try to get a new phone after this? Did I try to get a new phone after this? Did I try to get a new phone? Mm-hmm. As in a phone number or... A new phone? Like upgrade your phone? I believe I did upgrade my phone only because me and his father shared a phone at the time of online and I was returning his and I was eligible for an upgrade. When did you become eligible for an upgrade? I don't know. [00:29:03] Speaker 1: Does December 6, 2020 sound right? I don't know. Okay. [00:29:08] Speaker 2: Do you know how many times you check to see if you actually qualify for an upgrade? I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. [00:29:17] Speaker ?: I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I fall. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. [00:30:15] Speaker 2: I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. [00:30:18] Speaker ?: I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. I will never change to see if I qualify for an upgrade. [00:31:14] Speaker 2: Do you have any idea what that is? Those are records of eligibility check from, I guess, my account. From your account? And there were a lot of pages, weren't there? [00:31:23] Speaker ?: They are. [00:31:24] Speaker 2: Okay. What were the dates? From November until, I believe it was January, I don't know. So December? December, January. I think that was the last date. [00:31:37] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:31:38] Speaker 2: That's quite a few pages, isn't it? Of eligibility requests for an upgrade on my cell phone? Mm-hmm. Sure. Okay. [00:31:46] Speaker 1: A lot of them came right after this incident happened, didn't it? [00:31:52] Speaker ?: Sure. [00:31:53] Speaker 2: Sure. But I mean, I work in tech, so we upgraded my phone. We had no bearing on anything because everything was transferred over to my phone. Okay. Why did you tell Keon to get him breathing treatment that morning? Because Keon had mentioned that he didn't think that he was breathing correctly. So I immediately said, well, I asked him to look up his shirt so that I could see if he was retracting a little bit. I did not notice him retracting, but because he stated that he felt that he was breathing oddly, I told him to get him breathing treatment anyway. And you knew the signs and symptoms, right? Yes, which is why I asked him to look up his shirt. Right. And you didn't see anything? No. [00:32:38] Speaker 1: But you said he didn't bring the treatment anyway. Correct. You don't recall saying that Carter threw up four times Sunday night to Collins in your first interview? [00:33:01] Speaker 2: I don't recall anything from that first interview. Again, I had just lost my child. It was a lot going on. How many times did he tell you he's stomach hurt? I don't know. Was it once? He told me Sunday night. I went to work on Monday. I never heard him say it again until I turned home and looked in my face and then say mommy my son first. Did you give him a bath after that happened or did you give him a bath prior to being in the kitchen? I gave him a bath when I got home because I noticed that he had juice all on his shirt. But it wasn't juice, was it? It was juice. It was juice. It was juice. What was on the carpet? Juice. [00:33:55] Speaker 1: Juice was on the carpet? Juice. Juice. Okay. [00:33:59] Speaker ?: But you said that you kind of deduced that it was throw up. At some point, he was saying this is the law enforcement, right? [00:34:05] Speaker 2: Throw up, in my mind, is throw up, which it should contain food, some sort of consistency, chunkiness, something. This was not that. This was like water misreduced. Thank you. [00:34:19] Speaker ?: Thank you. [00:34:19] Speaker 1: So, why did you tell law enforcement that you kind of figured out later, once he threw up in the kitchen, that you figured out it was throw up? [00:34:35] Speaker 2: I said, because when he threw it in the kitchen, he also vomited the juice and clear fluid. So, I then immediately said that must have been what I noticed on the floor when I came home from work. [00:35:05] Speaker 1: You said there was something I would tell you to law enforcement once they told you about the injuries, right? [00:35:11] Speaker 2: Of course. So, there's nothing? I did not witness any type of anything. No. And there was no evidence of any bruising or anything on his body to me, nor was there any evidence of any bruising on his body to the medical staff who saw him that Tuesday morning. But Carter didn't run to you and point at Keon and say he hit me? No. No. And he never said anyone hit him, but if anyone did hit him, he would point to whoever. I would ask who did it, as I would refer to my child, and he would point and tell me who he thought would do anything. [00:35:53] Speaker ?: Right. Like if he got hit at daycare, something like that? [00:35:56] Speaker 2: If he got hit at daycare, I wouldn't have known unless he started smoking. But you said that if anything would happen, Carter, who was a crybaby in your words, would come to you and point at what happened. Carter is always the last one to pick up from daycare because I am the latest parent to pick him up. So whenever I pick him up from daycare, he is typically the only child there, so there would be no one to point to. Okay, then why did you tell police that? What? Why did you tell police that if someone hit Carter that he would tell you? Because he would. Why did you tell police? Why did you tell police? But he didn't even have a team. So they obviously need no one to hit him. That would be perfect, John. [00:36:37] Speaker ?: Thank you. I have nothing else, Your Honor. Can you come down? Stand down, ma'am. This baby is coming back to you. [00:36:42] Speaker 2: I have nothing else, Your Honor. Can you come down? [00:36:44] Speaker ?: Stand down, ma'am. This baby is coming back to you. Thank you.