Lindsay Clancy’s Ex-Husband Recalls Life Before Children’s Murders

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: Uh, Commonwealth, you call your first witness please. Thank you Your Honour. Commonwealth calls Patrick Clancy. [00:00:27] Speaker ?: Good morning, sir. [00:00:28] Speaker 2: All right, good morning, sir. I'm going to ask you to speak into that microphone. Uh, you can be seated if you'd like to be more comfortable. Okay. [00:00:54] Speaker 3: All right, come up please. Your Honour. Good morning. Can you please state and spell your name for the record? [00:01:01] Patrick Clancy: Yeah, my name is Patrick Clancy. It's P A T R I C K C L A N C Y. And what is your date of birth? June 15th, 1988. What city do you live in now? New York. And what do you do for a living? I work in tech. How long have you worked in tech? [00:01:18] Speaker 3: Um, 14 years. And were you previously married to a person named Lindsey Clancy? Yes. And you're divorced now. Is that correct? Correct. Do you see that person in the courtroom today? Yes. Could you point to them and describe something they're wearing? [00:01:35] Speaker 1: She's wearing a pink shirt. Record reflect the identification of the defendant. Thank you. Where did you meet the defendant? [00:01:45] Patrick Clancy: Um, in South Boston. And when was that? I think it was, um, May 2013. And how did you meet her? Through my cousin. [00:01:59] Speaker 3: And, um, would it be accurate to state that your cousin had been college roommates of the defendant? Yes. And at some point in time, did you start dating? Yes. And around what time was that? July 2013. Did you eventually move in together? Yes. Do you remember when that was? September 2015. And where did you live? In Quincy. How long did you live in Quincy? One year. And where did you go after that? We bought a house in Weymouth. And how long did you live in Weymouth? Two years. Did you eventually get married? Yes. And when was that? December 2016. And, um, was that while you were living in Weymouth? Yes. Did you have your first child when you were living in Weymouth? Yes. And what was her name? Cora. And what was her date of birth? December 24th, 2017. Prior to getting married, did the defendant ever tell you she had taken psychiatric medication while in nursing school? Not that I recall. When Cora did the three of you moved somewhere else? Yeah, we moved to Duxbury. And what was your address in Duxbury? 47 Summer Street. And do you recall when you moved there? I believe it was July 2018. And where were you working at that time? I was working for a startup called Automation Anywhere. At some point in time, did you start working for Microsoft? Yes. And when was that? May 2020. And when you worked for Microsoft, did you go to an office or did you work from home? I worked from home. And from, was that from 2020 onward that you worked from home? No, I started working from home in 2018. 2018. Okay. So from 2018 up until, let's say 2023, you were working from home. Is that correct? Yes. And did you have an office in your home, which you worked out of? Eventually, yeah. And where was that located? In the basement. And was that a finished basement? Yes. Going back to after Cora was born, do you recall the defendant having any physical issues after the birth? Yeah. And what were those? I think there was a lot of tearing. And she bled a lot. Did it take her a while to recover physically? I would say so, yeah. Did she have maternity leave at that time? Yes. Where was she working? Mass General Hospital. And what was she doing there? She's a labor and delivery nurse. At that point in time, when she had Cora in 2017, how long had she been a nurse? Yes. Yes. I would say three years maybe. And do you recall how long her maternity leave was with Cora? [00:05:31] Patrick Clancy: That was the shortest of the three. I want to say it was 10 or 11 weeks. [00:05:38] Speaker 3: And did you have paternity leave at that time? Yeah, I had two weeks. Two weeks, okay. When you went back after the two weeks, back to work in the home, were there any issues that you noticed the defendant having? [00:05:57] Patrick Clancy: Yeah, I'm sorry. I just want to correct an earlier statement. I was working for Pegasystems when Cora was born. [00:06:03] Speaker 3: Okay. And then eventually you worked for Microsoft? Yeah. Okay. And so after the two weeks of your paternity leave, the defendant was still on maternity leave, correct? Yes. Okay. And did she have to take any psychiatric medications at that time? [00:06:20] Patrick Clancy: Not that I know of. She had a lot of anxiety. [00:06:24] Speaker 3: Okay. So you're saying that she had some anxiety at that time, is that correct? Yeah. How did that manifest or how did you know that? [00:06:32] Patrick Clancy: She just really struggled with the date of going back to work. [00:06:36] Speaker 3: So immediately after having Cora, as she healed physically, what was her mood like when you're both on leave? [00:06:47] Patrick Clancy: It was great. It was good. Good? Okay. I mean, relatively, yeah. [00:06:51] Speaker 3: And so did the anxiety start as it became closer in time to when she had to go back to work? [00:06:57] Patrick Clancy: Yes. [00:06:58] Speaker 3: How many shifts was she working at that time? [00:07:00] Patrick Clancy: Before Cora was born, she was working at least 40 hours, maybe more. After she went back to work, it was, I think, initially just one. One shift? [00:07:15] Speaker ?: Yeah. [00:07:16] Speaker 3: And was that a 12-hour shift? It was per diem. And then she eventually did two shifts. Okay. [00:07:20] Patrick Clancy: I think it was 20 weeks. After 20 weeks, she moved to two shifts? I'm sorry, it was 20 hours a week. 20 hours a week. Okay. And so from the time she worked her way back up to 20 hours a week at work until she had your next child, did it remain that 20 hours per week that she worked? [00:07:33] Speaker 3: Pretty much, yeah. Pretty much, yeah. Okay. And so from the time she worked her way back up to 20 hours a week at work until she had your next child, did it remain that 20 hours per week that she worked? [00:07:46] Patrick Clancy: Pretty much, yeah. [00:07:47] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:07:48] Speaker 3: And did you have any assistance in the home during that time after she went back to work? A nanny or a babysitter? Yeah, we had babysitters. [00:07:57] Patrick Clancy: We had a babysitter who came probably 12 hours a week. [00:08:04] Speaker 3: And did that typically happen after your wife had a shift that the nanny or the babysitter would be there? [00:08:11] Patrick Clancy: Yeah, so she could sleep. [00:08:13] Speaker 3: Did the defendant work overnights? [00:08:15] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. [00:08:19] Speaker 3: And how long did you have that nanny or babysitter for? [00:08:23] Patrick Clancy: Several years. [00:08:26] Speaker 3: Do you remember her name? [00:08:27] Patrick Clancy: We called her Miss Jen. [00:08:29] Speaker 3: Miss Jen. Do you remember her last name? Shanahan. And then you had a second child, is that correct? Yes. And what was their name? [00:08:39] Patrick Clancy: Dawson. [00:08:40] Speaker 3: And what was Dawson's date of birth? [00:08:42] Patrick Clancy: September 30th, 2019. [00:08:45] Speaker 3: And was Miss Jen still helping out in the home at that time? Yeah. And what was Dawson's delivery like? [00:08:55] Patrick Clancy: Pretty traumatic. How so? He was in a, I think a breech position. So he came out in a, I guess, I don't know much about it, but not an ideal way. And it caused just significant bruising and tearing. [00:09:14] Speaker 3: So again, did the defendant with this second pregnancy have some pain and difficulty physically healing from the birth? [00:09:23] Patrick Clancy: Yeah, much more so than Cora. Okay. [00:09:26] Speaker 3: And was she on maternity leave at that time? Yes. How many weeks leave did she have at that time? [00:09:33] Patrick Clancy: I don't recall, but I think it was more than the, you know, traditional 12. I want to say it was 13 or 14, maybe more. Page 13, if I may approach. [00:09:54] Speaker 3: You may. [00:10:09] Speaker 1: You don't have to keep telling me the pages, that's okay. Okay. [00:10:12] Speaker 3: I could have you look at page 13 and just read to yourselves on 6 through 10, and then just look up when you're finished. [00:10:30] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:10:31] Speaker 3: Does that refresh your memory as to how much maternity leave the defendant had after Dawson's birth? Yeah. [00:10:41] Patrick Clancy: And what was it? [00:10:42] Speaker 3: 18. 18 weeks? Mm-hmm. [00:10:45] Patrick Clancy: Is that correct? I believe so. [00:10:47] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:10:48] Speaker 3: And, you know, after dealing with the physical pain of birth and starting to heal, how was her demeanor and experience during that maternity leave? [00:11:02] Patrick Clancy: I think it was fine at first. It was always when she had to go back to work, that's when she struggled. Okay. [00:11:11] Speaker 3: So that was a pattern that you saw after the baby? Yeah. Maternity leave was good, and then she'd struggle going back to work? [00:11:18] Patrick Clancy: She just had a really hard time being separated from them. [00:11:21] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:11:24] Speaker 3: What was the plan for how many shifts she would work or how many hours she would work after Dawson was born? [00:11:30] Patrick Clancy: I believe it was the same thing. [00:11:33] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:11:35] Speaker 3: And in terms of Ms. Shanahan, the babysitter, you had mentioned before that she was there about 12 hours a week. Did that stay consistent after Dawson's birth or was it more or less? [00:11:50] Patrick Clancy: Probably consistent. [00:11:57] Speaker 3: After Dawson's birth, did the defendant ever tell you whether she was on any psychiatric medication after Dawson's birth? [00:12:04] Patrick Clancy: No. [00:12:05] Speaker 3: Did she seek treatment or tell you she sought treatment after Dawson's birth? [00:12:11] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. She got a therapist for a short period of time, but it didn't last very long. [00:12:17] Speaker 3: Did she tell you that at the time or later? At the time. Okay. And did she have any psychiatric hospitalizations or commitments at that time? No. What about after Cora's birth, any psychiatric hospitalizations or treatments? No. Was there a time after Dawson's birth where she wanted to declutter your garage? [00:12:47] Patrick Clancy: No. Maybe at some point. [00:12:49] Speaker 3: Okay. And did you assist her with that? [00:12:51] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. [00:12:52] Speaker 3: Okay. And how was that done? [00:12:55] Patrick Clancy: We had a lot of stuff to throw away. And I think we sold some stuff on Facebook Marketplace. We just had a lot of stuff. [00:13:04] Speaker 3: So did the two of you go through the items in the garage and organize it into what you would keep, what you would throw away, and what you would sell? Yes. Okay. And so it was very organized? I would say so, yeah. [00:13:16] Patrick Clancy: Okay. [00:13:17] Speaker 3: And you finished the project, is that correct? [00:13:22] Patrick Clancy: It was always ongoing. [00:13:25] Speaker 3: Now, eventually you had your third child, correct? Yeah. And what was, what was their name? [00:13:34] Patrick Clancy: Callan. [00:13:35] Speaker 3: And what was his date of birth? [00:13:37] Patrick Clancy: May 26th, 2022. [00:13:41] Speaker 3: Can you describe that delivery for us? [00:13:45] Patrick Clancy: It was great. From what I could tell. It was relatively quick. It was during the day. We were both smiling after. And I don't think there was as much physical trauma. [00:14:02] Speaker 3: Nothing compared to what happened with Cora or Dawson. Is that correct? [00:14:06] Patrick Clancy: Correct. [00:14:07] Speaker 3: Did the defendant have maternity leave after Callan's birth? Yeah. And how long was that leave? [00:14:17] Patrick Clancy: She never went back. [00:14:19] Speaker 3: How long was it planned for initially? [00:14:21] Patrick Clancy: I want to say 18 weeks. Okay. [00:14:24] Speaker 3: And were you on paternity leave as well? [00:14:27] Patrick Clancy: Yes. [00:14:28] Speaker 3: And how long was your paternity leave? [00:14:30] Patrick Clancy: 12 weeks. [00:14:32] Speaker 3: So with Callan being born on May 26th, 2022, the two of you were home with the children that summer on leave. Is that correct? [00:14:42] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. [00:14:43] Speaker 3: What was family life like during that time period, those summer months? It was great. [00:14:54] Patrick Clancy: We had a lot of time off. Um, I was able to spend a lot of time with, uh, I spent a lot of time with Cora and Dawson. So I would, I would take them around, you know, the playgrounds and birthday parties and stuff like that. [00:15:09] Speaker 3: And what would Lindsay be doing while you were, um, with Cora and Dawson? [00:15:13] Patrick Clancy: Sometimes she'd come with us with Callan, but oftentimes we did kind of like a divide and conquer. So she'd be home with Callan and I'd be out with the older kids. [00:15:23] Speaker 3: And what types of family activities did, um, did you all do during those summer months? [00:15:28] Patrick Clancy: Um, we went on a couple of vacations. We went to the beach. Um, we went out on our boat and, um, went to friends' houses. [00:15:39] Speaker 3: During those, those months, um, when you're going to the beach and out on the boat and, and visiting with friends, um, were there any signs of anxiety in the defendant during those months? [00:15:50] Patrick Clancy: Um, I would say starting in September, yes. But in the previous months, uh, not so much. [00:15:58] Speaker 3: When had she been scheduled to go back to work? [00:16:01] Patrick Clancy: I don't remember the exact date, but I think it was October. [00:16:05] Speaker 3: So again, it was that pattern of as it became closer in time to go back to work, she started to struggle? Yeah. During the times when, um, she would get anxious when it was time to go back to work and she would start being anxious. Did you ever have any difficulty understanding her when she spoke? No. And, um, did, did she ever exhibit any behavior, um, that made you concerned enough to call a doctor or want to, um, commit her, commit her? [00:16:45] Patrick Clancy: No. [00:16:46] Speaker 3: When she was, um, showing this anxiety, what, what were you seeing in her behavior? [00:16:54] Patrick Clancy: Um, just a lot of stress. Um, you know, there were days where she had all three kids and, you know, there's different nap schedules and different needs. So it was just really stressful. Okay. [00:17:08] Speaker 3: Um, and you're still, um, working in the, the basement office at this point after Callan's born, correct? I went back to work late August. [00:17:20] Patrick Clancy: Okay. [00:17:21] Speaker 3: And when you work downstairs, um, how often would you come upstairs during the day? [00:17:26] Patrick Clancy: All the time for lunch, um, or just to say hi. [00:17:31] Speaker 3: Um, were there times when, um, Lindsay would ask you to hold the baby in the office while she was doing something? So, yeah. [00:17:42] Patrick Clancy: So, yeah. [00:17:43] Speaker 3: Okay. And, um, were there times when, um, you would watch one, one or more of the children while she took another to a doctor's appointment or to an errand or something like that? [00:17:53] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. If it, if it worked out with a schedule, yeah. Okay. [00:17:57] Speaker 3: What was the plan in terms of how many shifts or hours she was going to work after Callan? [00:18:07] Patrick Clancy: Um, I believe the plan was two shifts per week, but, um, there's a lot of flexibility. She could have done really anything. [00:18:19] Speaker 3: Do you recall, um, saying previously that the, that you were going to start off with one shift and hopefully move to two? [00:18:25] Patrick Clancy: I could imagine. Yeah. [00:18:27] Speaker 3: Okay. And, um, you said there was some options, correct? Um, what, what were those options if that didn't work out? [00:18:35] Patrick Clancy: Um, well, I always put money aside and basically our own maternity account, just so that if, um, she needed more flexibility, we, we plan for that. So. [00:18:47] Speaker 3: So if she needed more time off more than what her work would provide for her, you were financially secure enough to afford that at this time? Yes. [00:18:55] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:18:56] Speaker 3: During this time, um, in the fall of 2022, were Cora and Dawson attending preschool? Yes. [00:19:08] Patrick Clancy: And where was that? [00:19:09] Speaker 3: Learning Sprouts. [00:19:10] Patrick Clancy: And where is Learning Sprouts located? Duxbury. [00:19:12] Speaker 3: How often were they attending Learning Sprouts? [00:19:17] Patrick Clancy: Uh, full days, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and a half day on Thursday. And what was a full day? [00:19:27] Speaker 3: How, what hours? I think it was 9:00 to 4:00. [00:19:29] Patrick Clancy: 9:00 AM to 4:00 PM? [00:19:30] Speaker 3: I think so, yeah. And what was a half day? [00:19:32] Patrick Clancy: Like 9:00 to 12:30. [00:19:33] Speaker 3: I think they might have had some days where they started early. [00:19:36] Patrick Clancy: I can't remember. [00:19:37] Speaker 3: But basically all day, um, you know, working hours all day, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and then the mornings on Thursday, is that right? Right. And who would do, um, drop-offs for school? We both would. And what about pick-ups? Both of us. Together or take turns? [00:20:04] Patrick Clancy: Usually we would take turns. [00:20:07] Speaker 3: Now, at some point in time, um, after Callan was born, did you hire a nanny? [00:20:14] Patrick Clancy: Yes. [00:20:15] Speaker 3: And when was that? [00:20:17] Patrick Clancy: Um, I think it was in August or September. Of 2022? [00:20:25] Speaker 3: Yeah. And, um, who was that nanny? [00:20:29] Patrick Clancy: Um, Laney. I don't remember her last name. [00:20:34] Speaker 3: Does Elaine Rossi sound familiar? [00:20:36] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. [00:20:37] Speaker 3: Okay. And, um, do you recall how many days per week Elaine was going to work when you hired her? [00:20:47] Patrick Clancy: I think it was 12 hours. [00:20:49] Speaker 3: But it wouldn't be 12 hours altogether. It would be spread out over the week. Is that right? [00:20:54] Patrick Clancy: Correct. [00:20:55] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:20:56] Speaker 3: And, um, who was she hired to take care of? [00:21:01] Speaker ?: Everyone. [00:21:02] Patrick Clancy: Um, but mainly it was going to be Callan. [00:21:06] Speaker 3: Okay. Because Cora and Dawson would be at school? [00:21:09] Patrick Clancy: For the most part, yeah. [00:21:10] Speaker 3: And what was the plan for when Elaine would work? Was it that same type of, um, after Lindsay worked shifts or something different? Yeah. [00:21:22] Patrick Clancy: The goal was after Lindsay would work shift. I mean, she never went back to work. But, um, I think we wanted to get her just, um, like oriented with, with our house and the kids. So we had her start before and, and then, uh, she was amazing. She was an amazing caregiver. But eventually we, um, decided to let her go because, um, Lindsay was home anyways. Okay. [00:21:53] Speaker 3: So when you initially hired her in August or September, um, you said Lindsay was going back to work in October. So is that what you're talking about that? Give her that month or so, give Elaine that month or so to get situated and acclimated to the house? [00:22:07] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. [00:22:08] Speaker 3: Okay. Have the kids get used to her. [00:22:10] Patrick Clancy: Is that right? [00:22:11] Speaker ?: Yep. [00:22:12] Speaker 3: Okay. Did she also, Elaine, did she also do some cleaning, laundry, and food prep? [00:22:17] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. Yeah. She was amazing. [00:22:20] Speaker 3: Now during this time, um, frame, and again in the end of summer, fall period of 2022, what types of activities were Cora and Dawson doing? [00:22:32] Patrick Clancy: Um, gymnastics. Um, all right. Are you talking about organized activities or just in general? Organized. I only remember gymnastics. [00:22:47] Speaker 3: Did they both do the gymnastics? Yeah. And then were they also participating, maybe not in organized situations, but in swimming, soccer, skiing, things like that? [00:22:56] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. They were doing swimming. Um, and yeah, Cora and Dawson did skiing. Uh, yeah. Cora started doing soccer. She didn't really like it, but did a little bit. [00:23:05] Speaker 3: And who took them skiing? [00:23:07] Patrick Clancy: I did. [00:23:08] Speaker 3: Okay. In terms of the swimming, where would you do that? [00:23:12] Patrick Clancy: Um, we did it at, uh, Goldfish in Rockland, I think. And then, um, Lindsay took them somewhere in, I think Plymouth. I don't, I don't remember where it was. [00:23:24] Speaker 3: So you would each take them swimming at various times. Yeah. [00:23:28] Patrick Clancy: Okay. [00:23:29] Speaker 3: Um, did you also do some swimming at the, uh, Kingsbury club? Yes. And what is the Kingsbury club? [00:23:35] Patrick Clancy: It's like a gym with a pool and, um, they had childcare. So sometimes they would hang out in the kid's room and go work out. [00:23:44] Speaker 3: And is that in Duxbury? [00:23:46] Patrick Clancy: Uh, it's on the Kingston Duxbury line. I'm not, I'm not entirely sure, but yeah. Okay. [00:23:52] Speaker 3: And so you could drop the kids off at the daycare portion and go work out or swim or something like that? [00:23:58] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. Or we could go with them and go swimming. Okay. [00:24:01] Speaker 3: Did Lindsay work out? [00:24:04] Speaker ?: Yes. [00:24:05] Speaker 3: She was very health conscious? [00:24:07] Patrick Clancy: I think so. [00:24:08] Speaker 3: And, uh, were you aware that she had been an athlete in both high school and college? Yes. Do you recall what she did? [00:24:18] Patrick Clancy: Competitive cheerleading. [00:24:20] Speaker 3: Now, when you were together, what type of exercise would she do or did she prefer? [00:24:27] Patrick Clancy: Um, she did a lot of running. She did the Peloton and she did, um, it was like some program called Beachbody, I think. [00:24:36] Speaker 3: Do you recall when she started Beachbody? [00:24:39] Patrick Clancy: Um, maybe in the spring of 2022? I'm not sure. [00:24:45] Speaker 3: So, right before having Callan, would that be accurate? [00:24:49] Patrick Clancy: Probably, yeah. [00:24:59] Speaker 3: When you returned to work, and you said that was in August, correct? Yes. What was the defendant's demeanor when you returned to work? [00:25:09] Patrick Clancy: Um, increased anxiety and, um, and definitely, you know, stressed out. [00:25:19] Speaker 3: Do you recall describing her as slightly stressed but in good spirits? [00:25:24] Speaker ?: Um, yeah. [00:25:25] Patrick Clancy: Um, yeah. [00:25:26] Speaker 3: And when she was stressed out, when she was showing some anxiety, how did that manifest? [00:25:33] Patrick Clancy: Um, I don't really know how to describe it. I guess it's just any way you can tell that somebody's stressed out and, um, I don't know. She would say, you know, I'm not looking forward to going back to work. I remember once she said, it's just so unnatural to be separated from your newborn. You know, stuff like that. [00:25:57] Speaker 3: So, she didn't want to go back to work? Is that what you're saying? [00:26:01] Patrick Clancy: I think she did. Um, it was just a really difficult transition for her. [00:26:09] Speaker 3: And, um, do you recall attending a wedding on September 17th, 2022? [00:26:15] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. [00:26:16] Speaker 3: And where was that wedding? [00:26:17] Patrick Clancy: New Hampshire. [00:26:18] Speaker 3: Was it just you and Lindsey that went or did the whole family go? [00:26:22] Patrick Clancy: We brought Callan. [00:26:23] Speaker 3: And when you were at that wedding, do you recall having a conversation with Lindsey, um, about medication? Yes. What did she say to you? [00:26:34] Patrick Clancy: Um, we were walking downtown and she said, I think I'm going to start taking Zoloft. [00:26:40] Speaker 3: And did she tell you why she wanted to start taking Zoloft? [00:26:43] Patrick Clancy: She said, I think it's really going to help with my anxiety, um, and with going back to work. [00:26:49] Speaker 3: And did she tell you how she was going to go about getting Zoloft? Yeah. [00:26:54] Patrick Clancy: I, I, um, I asked her, how are you going to get Zoloft? It's a prescription. And she said, you know, usually just ask the doctor and they'll give it to you. [00:27:06] Speaker 3: And did she tell you, um, that she was going to see a psychiatrist? Yeah, I believe so. And, um, when she, when she did that, did she tell you, um, who she was going to see? No. Okay. Did you eventually learn the name of the person who she went to see? [00:27:25] Speaker ?: Months later. [00:27:26] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. [00:27:27] Speaker 3: Okay. And who was that? [00:27:29] Patrick Clancy: Uh, Jennifer Tufts. Okay. [00:27:31] Speaker 3: And do you, did Lindsay tell you when she started seeing Dr. Jennifer Tufts? No. Did you learn or strike that? Did Lindsay tell you when she received the medication and when she started it? No. [00:27:48] Patrick Clancy: No. I mean, I should correct that. It's not exactly. Um. [00:27:56] Speaker 3: Well, let me just ask a question first. Sure. Um, when, did you have a conversation with Lindsay about the medication she was on? [00:28:05] Patrick Clancy: Eventually, yeah, but I didn't know the start date. [00:28:08] Speaker 3: Okay. And so when did this conversation take place, this eventual conversation? [00:28:13] Patrick Clancy: Probably the end of October. Okay. [00:28:17] Speaker 3: And at that point, what did Lindsay tell you about the medication and how she was taking it? [00:28:23] Patrick Clancy: Um, I don't remember exactly, but I learned that she was taking the Zoloft and, um, I don't remember really too much about it after that. She was just taking it and, you know, we were seeing how it went. [00:28:42] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:28:43] Speaker 3: And did you notice any changes in her physically during that timeframe that she was on it and you, you weren't aware she was on it? [00:28:53] Patrick Clancy: Uh, at the time, no, I don't think I did. [00:28:57] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:28:58] Speaker 3: And, um, did you notice any changes in her emotionally during that time when she was on it, but you weren't aware she was on it? Um, yeah, uh, she wasn't really improving. [00:29:06] Patrick Clancy: She just kind of seems, um, to be gradually becoming more, more in like a depressed state. [00:29:17] Speaker 3: Um, and how was that manifesting? What were you noticing? [00:29:21] Patrick Clancy: It was just small things. Um, I was planning a trip with Cora to San Francisco and she was nervous about us going. Um, I remember we went to a Halloween event and, um, just leading up to it. I remember she was, it just kind of seemed like she didn't want to go for some reason. [00:29:44] Speaker 3: Okay. Um, now do you recall learning that, um, she had actually obtained the prescription the day before she told you she was going to ask for the prescription? I did later learn that. [00:29:58] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. [00:29:59] Speaker 3: Okay. So she's telling you what the wedding that she, um, is going to ask to take this medication and going to see a psychiatrist to get on that medication, but she actually already had the prescription. Is that correct? [00:30:10] Patrick Clancy: Correct. I don't think she started taking it yet, but she already had it. [00:30:13] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:30:14] Speaker 3: And, um, did, did Lindsay tell you how long she took the medication for? [00:30:29] Patrick Clancy: Uh, she may have, um, I don't remember the exact timeframe. I just remember she took it for a period of time and then her sleep started to suffer. So she stopped taking it. [00:30:43] Speaker 3: Okay. And did she tell you, um, whether or not she, um, spoke to her provider, her doctor about the troubles she was having? I believe so. [00:30:52] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. Okay. [00:30:54] Speaker 3: And, um, did she tell you, did Lindsay tell you that she was advised to double the dose of the Zoloft? She may have. [00:31:03] Speaker ?: She may have. She may have. I don't remember. Page 31. Page 31. You could look at lines 20 to 22. [00:31:03] Patrick Clancy: Just look up when you're finished. Sure. Okay. [00:31:06] Speaker ?: Yeah. [00:31:07] Speaker 3: Apparently she did. Did that refresh your memory? [00:31:09] Speaker ?: Yeah. And so did Lindsay tell you that she was supposed to double the dose? [00:31:09] Speaker 3: I guess she did. [00:31:10] Speaker ?: Yeah. Yeah. [00:31:12] Speaker 3: I guess she did. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I guess she did. [00:31:17] Speaker ?: Yeah. [00:31:17] Speaker 3: Okay. [00:31:18] Speaker ?: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Apparently she did. [00:31:22] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. [00:31:23] Speaker 3: And so did Lindsay tell you that she was supposed to double the dose? [00:31:31] Patrick Clancy: I guess she did. Yeah. [00:31:33] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:31:34] Speaker 3: Did you notice any changes in her sleep during that time when she was on the medication but you weren't aware she was on it? [00:31:54] Patrick Clancy: Eventually, yeah. When was that? I don't remember the exact dates but she just, you know, one night she said, do you mind, she started by saying, I'm not mad or anything but do you mind sleeping in the basement and letting me just sleep in our room with Callan and then you can take the monitors down in the basement and if Cora and Dawson get up, you can get up with them. She said, I've just been having a lot of trouble sleeping and I'm hoping that like if there's less in and out then there'll be less disruption. [00:32:33] Speaker 3: Okay. Had you noticed prior to her telling you this that she was up a lot or having trouble sleeping, like physically seeing her awake? [00:32:41] Patrick Clancy: No, not that I recall. [00:32:44] Speaker 3: And did you in fact start sleeping in the basement for a period of time? [00:32:46] Patrick Clancy: I think I did it for like two nights and then she actually went down in the basement. [00:32:50] Speaker 3: Okay. So then you went back up to your bedroom to sleep, is that correct? Yeah. And how long did Lindsay sleep in the basement for after that? [00:33:00] Patrick Clancy: Maybe a couple of weeks. [00:33:02] Speaker 3: And so during that timeframe, was she telling you that she was still having trouble sleeping? [00:33:06] Patrick Clancy: Yes. [00:33:07] Speaker 3: But you weren't actually down there watching her sleep, you're getting this information from her, correct? [00:33:13] Patrick Clancy: Correct. [00:33:20] Speaker 3: Were you aware that out of the Zoloft prescription she was given, she only took seven pills? [00:33:28] Patrick Clancy: No. [00:33:32] Speaker 3: After you had the conversation with Lindsay where she said she was going to double the dose of Zoloft, did you notice any difference in her demeanor or behavior? [00:33:44] Patrick Clancy: I would say yes. Um, I don't know if I connected it with the doubling of her Zoloft, but over that period of time, she always, she just kept getting worse and worse. [00:33:58] Speaker 3: And what period of time was that? What month are we in? [00:34:00] Patrick Clancy: Mid-October to the end of December. Okay. [00:34:04] Speaker 3: So she got the prescription in September, started taking it in October, took seven pills, but was having difficulty in December. Is that what you're saying? Yes. From this medication? [00:34:17] Patrick Clancy: Yep. Well, I don't know which medication it was from, but yeah. [00:34:21] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:34:22] Speaker 3: At some point in time, did she, Lindsay, switch providers? Yes. And why did she do that? [00:34:30] Patrick Clancy: Uh, because the, whatever she was doing with Jennifer Tufts, it, it wasn't working. She was just, she was only getting worse. And, um, she, uh, thought that it would be better if she worked with, I guess, more of like a perinatal psychiatrist. [00:34:50] Speaker 3: And did she get a referral or a recommendation of where to go? I think so. [00:34:54] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. [00:34:55] Speaker 3: Do you know who gave her that recommendation? [00:34:57] Patrick Clancy: It might've been my mother. [00:34:59] Speaker 3: And your mother's a nurse at South Shore Hospital, correct? Yeah. Um, does she also do labor and delivery work? Yes. [00:35:05] Patrick Clancy: Okay. [00:35:06] Speaker 3: And so, um, do you know which provider or which office is she recommended? Um, yeah. [00:35:13] Patrick Clancy: Her name is Julie Paul. [00:35:15] Speaker 3: And was she at the South Shore Perinatal Clinic? Something like that. [00:35:19] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. Okay. [00:35:21] Speaker 3: And do you know when that was? [00:35:23] Patrick Clancy: I don't know the dates on that. [00:35:27] Speaker 3: Do you recall, um, saying previously that it was, um, towards the end of November? Yeah. [00:35:36] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. That sounds, that sounds accurate. Yeah. [00:35:39] Speaker 3: Okay. And you said she initially saw someone named Julie Paul. Is that correct? [00:35:46] Patrick Clancy: Correct. [00:35:47] Speaker 3: Okay. And, um, do you know how long she saw Julie Paul at that facility? [00:35:53] Patrick Clancy: I, I think it was only four or five days. [00:35:56] Speaker 3: And, um, were you aware that Julie Paul left that office? Yes. And do you know who Lindsay saw after Julie Paul? [00:36:06] Patrick Clancy: Rebecca Gelata. [00:36:07] Speaker 3: And was Rebecca Gelata a nurse practitioner? [00:36:10] Patrick Clancy: Yes. Okay. [00:36:12] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:36:13] Speaker 3: Okay. Were you aware that she also saw a licensed, um, social worker therapist named Leticia Dukes while she was at the South Shore Perinatal Clinic? [00:36:23] Patrick Clancy: Um, I, I don't recall Leticia Dukes, but it's possible. [00:36:29] Speaker 3: Okay. So, Lindsay never told you that she had therapy sessions with a, a person named Leticia Dukes during that timeframe? [00:36:35] Patrick Clancy: I don't remember any therapy sessions now. Okay. [00:36:39] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:36:40] Speaker 3: After switching to, um, Julie Paul and then Rebecca Gelata, um, did Lindsay start coming home with different prescription bottles? [00:36:54] Patrick Clancy: Yes. [00:36:55] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:36:56] Speaker 3: And were, um, some of these medications, um, that she came home with, were some of them during the time she was with Dr. Tufts? [00:37:05] Patrick Clancy: I think some of them were, yep. [00:37:07] Speaker 3: And some of them were while she was with, um, Julie Paul, is that correct? [00:37:11] Patrick Clancy: Correct. [00:37:12] Speaker 3: And then some while she was with, um, nurse practitioner Gelata, is that correct? [00:37:16] Patrick Clancy: Yes. [00:37:17] Speaker 3: Okay. And would it be accurate to state that, um, you provided the district attorney's office, um, with a printout, um, from CVS Pharmacy of all the prescriptions that were filled for Lindsay, um, from September through January, September 2022 through January of 2023? [00:37:48] Speaker 1: Yes. [00:37:49] Speaker ?: Any objection? [00:37:51] Speaker 1: No, of course not. Sure. Sure. Yeah. And, members of the jury, one of the things I forgot to tell you is anything that's entered as an exhibit, uh, you'll have with you in the, uh, deliberating room, uh, when you're deliberating. So you'll have a chance to go over that as well. So you'll have anything that's marked as an exhibit. Okay. Thank you. [00:38:18] Speaker 3: Now, while she was taking these medications, the various pills, were you always with her watching and monitoring exactly what she took? [00:38:30] Patrick Clancy: Not always, no. Sometimes you'd see it. [00:38:32] Speaker 3: Sometimes you wouldn't. Yeah. Directing your attention to February 6th, 2023. Um, did you go to the district attorney's office and, um, or have your attorney go there and provide, um, a bag of, uh, prescription medication that had belonged to Lindsay? [00:38:52] Speaker ?: Yeah. [00:38:53] Patrick Clancy: Um, I think the police took a bag of, uh, prescription medications that night, the night my kids passed away. And then, um, there was a bag, uh, that I had in my truck that I was supposed to, um, uh, nurse practitioner, which a lot, I said, you can bring them to like a police station. They get rid of them for you. Um, but I, I never got around to it. [00:39:21] Speaker 3: And where had you stored those in your truck? [00:39:24] Patrick Clancy: Um, in the center console. It's like underneath the center console that opens. [00:39:31] Speaker 3: You have one of those center consoles that open up, but then there's another larger compartment below it. Yeah. Um, so was it your plan to bring these to a location where they could be properly disposed? [00:39:42] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. I didn't want to just throw them in the trash. [00:39:45] Speaker 3: So, and these were all medications, um, that had been prescribed in the past to Lindsay, but she was no longer taking, correct? Right. [00:39:53] Speaker 1: I don't think I have any objection to any of their exhibits, so she doesn't have to keep showing it to me. That's fine. I'll assume if the, if you do have an objection, just rise. Let me know. Okay. [00:40:13] Speaker 3: Thank you. Thank you. [00:40:15] Speaker ?: Thank you. [00:40:15] Speaker 3: And so, looking in exhibit two. We have, um, the, the Zoloft that was prescribed by Dr. Tufts. [00:40:18] Speaker ?: and filled on September 15th, 2022. And so, looking in exhibit two, we have, um, the, the Zoloft that was prescribed by Dr. Tufts. Tufts. And filled on September 15th, 2022. [00:40:22] Speaker 1: Um, and so, looking in exhibit two, we have, um, the, the Zoloft that was prescribed by Dr. [00:40:27] Speaker ?: Tufts. And filled on September 15th, 2022. [00:40:34] Speaker 3: Um, and I think we, I asked you earlier, you weren't aware that only seven pills were taken out of this. [00:40:54] Patrick Clancy: Correct? That's correct. [00:40:56] Speaker 3: Okay. And then there's another prescription in here, um, for Ativan that was filled on October 26th, 2022. Were you aware that only six pills were taken out of that bottle? [00:41:09] Patrick Clancy: Can you say the date again? [00:41:12] Speaker 3: October 26th, 2022. [00:41:13] Patrick Clancy: And how many did it start with? [00:41:17] Speaker 3: Let me see. [00:41:22] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:41:35] Speaker 2: 30 pills. [00:41:37] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:41:38] Speaker 3: Um, 30 pills. [00:41:43] Patrick Clancy: Okay. Um, I, I mean, I don't have those exact numbers on how many she took, but there was, there were two pills. Um, I mean, there was a prescription that was made on the dosage of the Ativan. Um, so that aligns with what happened. [00:41:57] Speaker 3: But the question was, were you aware that only six pills were taken out of this prescription? [00:42:01] Patrick Clancy: Um, no, but I think the context is important. [00:42:09] Speaker 3: Um, were you aware that there was a prescription for Buspirone or Buspar filled on October 26th, 2022, um, in which only two pills were taken out of the 30 that were prescribed? [00:42:23] Patrick Clancy: Um, I found out about the Buspar later, and, um, I, I didn't know about the number of pills taken. [00:42:30] Speaker 3: And then were you aware that there was a prescription for hydroxynine, um, prescription filled on October 26th, 2022 for 30 pills and that, um, only three pills were taken out of this bottle. [00:42:44] Patrick Clancy: Um, which, um, hydroxynine, yeah, what is that? [00:42:49] Speaker 3: I believe it's in some type of, similar to an antihistamine, like Benadryl or something [00:42:55] Patrick Clancy: like that. Oh, okay. Um, I don't really recall much about that drug. [00:43:02] Speaker 3: And were you aware in this bag there was another prescription for Buspar that was filled on November 9th, 2022, 30 pills, um, prescribed, um, and no pills were taken out of this bottle. Were you aware of that? [00:43:25] Patrick Clancy: I wasn't keeping track of the number of pills taken out of each bottle, so. [00:43:30] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:43:31] Speaker 3: And then, um, just ask you about one more, um, the Trazodone prescribed on November 16th, 2022, um, by a doctor from South Shore Hospital. um, 30 pills, were you aware that only seven and a half pills were taken out of this prescription? [00:43:50] Speaker ?: No. [00:43:52] Speaker 3: So there were a lot of pills prescribed, but not a lot of pills taken, correct? [00:43:57] Patrick Clancy: Um, is that comprehensive of all the pills that were prescribed? [00:44:02] Speaker 3: These are the pills that you brought into the police station. So out of these? [00:44:06] Patrick Clancy: Out of those, yeah. It's possible that, uh, not a lot were taken. [00:44:12] Speaker ?: Do you recall what was the most amount of pills prescribed? [00:44:20] Speaker 3: That's, I guess I could ask this better, um, what was the maximum number of medications she was on at any one time? I want to say three or four. [00:44:42] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:44:43] Speaker 3: Would it surprise you to know that she, at any given time, the most she was prescribed was three, but most of the time it was two medications that she was prescribed at any given time? [00:45:00] Patrick Clancy: It wouldn't be terribly surprising, no. [00:45:03] Speaker 3: Now, um, on November 16th, 2022, did Lindsay visit South Shore Hospital? Uh, yes. Okay. And, um, why did she go to the, uh, South Shore Hospital that day? [00:45:19] Patrick Clancy: I believe that day was because she basically went 48 hours without sleeping. [00:45:25] Speaker 3: And, um, was she having heart palpitations? [00:45:28] Patrick Clancy: I think so, yeah. [00:45:30] Speaker 3: Were you aware that she had taken a weed gummy that day? [00:45:36] Patrick Clancy: Um, I don't know. I don't recall. [00:45:40] Speaker 3: And are you aware that she didn't tell medical staff at the hospital when describing her symptoms and her medication that she left out, that she had used marijuana? [00:45:50] Patrick Clancy: I wasn't with her, so I don't know what she talked about at the hospital. [00:45:55] Speaker 3: So she drove herself to the hospital? [00:45:57] Patrick Clancy: She did. [00:45:58] Speaker 3: Okay. And, um, she drove herself home from the hospital then? Is that correct? [00:46:02] Speaker ?: Yeah. Okay. Okay. [00:46:05] Speaker 3: Now, during this time frame between September and November of 2022, um, are you still participating in activities as a family? [00:46:16] Patrick Clancy: Between November and December. [00:46:18] Speaker 3: Between September and November? [00:46:20] Patrick Clancy: Um, yeah. [00:46:21] Speaker 3: Okay. And what types of things were you doing? [00:46:25] Patrick Clancy: Um, we celebrated Halloween. I don't really remember what else, but I think we were doing things regularly. [00:46:38] Speaker 3: Do you recall going to an event, um, with food trucks? [00:46:50] Speaker ?: Yeah. [00:46:51] Speaker 3: And do you recall going to an event, um, in November, um, where there were trains to ride with the kids? Yeah. So if we have, um, the photo from the food truck event that we did at three. And the photo from the train event that we did at four. Three and four somewhere. [00:47:19] Speaker ?: Can I make it published? [00:47:20] Speaker 3: You may. Okay. So exhibit three is this, um, Lindsey, Cora, and Callan, um, at that event? [00:47:37] Speaker ?: Yeah. [00:47:38] Speaker 3: And exhibit four, this Lindsey with all three kids at that event in November? Yeah. Did you have plans for Thanksgiving that year? Yeah. What were your plans? [00:48:03] Patrick Clancy: Um, I believe the order was we went to Wallingford where her parents lived in the week before, and then the week after, um, we went to my sister's house. [00:48:17] Speaker 3: And, um, where did your sister live? What town? [00:48:20] Patrick Clancy: South Hamilton. [00:48:21] Speaker 3: Okay. And, um, that was a week after Thanksgiving. Is that correct? [00:48:26] Speaker ?: I think so. [00:48:27] Patrick Clancy: Yeah. Yeah, it was. [00:48:35] Speaker 3: And is this a photo from, um, Thanksgiving at your sister's house? [00:48:41] Patrick Clancy: Yes. [00:48:42] Speaker 3: I could have this photo marked as exhibit five, I believe? All right. [00:48:46] Speaker 1: That may be marked. Five. [00:48:48] Speaker ?: Showing you what's been marked. Exhibit five. Is this Lindsey here on the left? Yes. Um, and are those your sisters in the photo with her? [00:48:54] Speaker 3: That's one of my sisters and my sister-in-law. Okay. And have they been here on the left? Yes. Um, and are those your sisters in the photo with her? That's one of my sisters and my sister-in-law. Okay. [00:49:02] Patrick Clancy: And have they been here on the left? [00:49:03] Speaker 3: Yes. Um, and are those your sisters in the photo with her? [00:49:06] Speaker ?: That's one of my sisters and my sister-in-law. [00:49:07] Patrick Clancy: Okay. And have they coordinated outfits for the day? The shirts? [00:49:10] Speaker 3: Um, yeah. I think my sister did. What was, um, Lindsey's demeanor that day? [00:49:13] Speaker ?: Uh, she was in rough shape. [00:49:14] Patrick Clancy: Rough shape? Yeah. How so? [00:49:17] Speaker ?: She wasn't talking much. She had low energy. She was really depressed. [00:49:20] Speaker 3: I just remember when she showed up. Um, my sister-in-law gave her a big hug. [00:49:24] Patrick Clancy: And, um, she was able to get through dinner, eat dinner with everyone? Yeah. [00:49:29] Speaker 3: Okay. [00:49:30] Patrick Clancy: Um, she interacted with her? Um, she interacted with her? Um, yeah. Um, she interacted with her? Yes. Okay. Um, she interacted with her? Okay. Um, she interacted with her? [00:49:39] Speaker 3: Yeah. Um, she was able to get through dinner, eat dinner with everyone? Yeah. Okay. [00:49:44] Speaker ?: Um, she interacted with her? [00:49:45] Speaker 3: Okay. Um, she interacted with people, is that correct? [00:49:48] Patrick Clancy: I would say very little, but to some degree, sure. [00:49:53] Speaker 3: And she took care of the kids with you while she was there? [00:49:56] Patrick Clancy: We both took care of the kids together. Okay. [00:50:03] Speaker 3: You mentioned earlier that your wedding anniversary is in December, is that correct? [00:50:08] Speaker 2: Yeah. [00:50:09] Speaker 3: Okay. Do you recall going out for your anniversary on December 3rd, 2022, going into Boston? No, we didn't go out. You don't recall, um, arranging for a massage for Lindsay and then going to the Omni Parker house and, um, going out to dinner that night? No. [00:50:28] Patrick Clancy: December 3rd, 2022, we stayed home. Uh, December 3rd, 2022, we stayed home. You stayed home. [00:50:31] Speaker 3: Okay. [00:50:32] Speaker ?: Okay. I'll show you a photo of you and Lindsay. Do you recognize this photo? Yeah. And when was that taken? Yeah. I'll show you a photo of you and Lindsay. Do you recognize this photo? Yeah. And when was that taken? I'll show you a photo of you and Lindsay. Do you recognize this photo? Yeah. And when was that taken? Yeah. And when was that taken? I'm not really sure. It wasn't the photo of you and Lindsay. Do you recognize this photo? Yeah. And when was that taken? I'm not really sure. It wasn't the photo of you and Lindsay. Do you recognize this photo? Yeah. And when was that taken? I'm not really sure. It wasn't the photo of you and Lindsay. Do you recognize this photo? Yeah. And when was that taken? I'm not really sure. [00:50:53] Speaker 3: It wasn't taken on December 3rd when you were out celebrating your anniversary? In 2022? Yes. No. [00:51:02] Speaker ?: No. [00:51:02] Speaker 3: No, we wanted to go out, but we canceled because she wasn't feeling well, so we stayed home. We got takeout. Okay. [00:51:12] Patrick Clancy: Did you also. On November 26th, 2022, go out as a family to get a Christmas tree? Yes. [00:51:15] Speaker ?: No. [00:51:16] Patrick Clancy: No, we wanted to go out, but we canceled because she wasn't feeling well. So we stayed home, we got takeout. Okay. Did you also, on November 26th, 2022, go out as a family to get a Christmas tree? Yes. No. No. Well, probably. I don't know. But yeah, around that time, yes. [00:51:45] Speaker ?: Okay. Showing you two photos. [00:51:49] Speaker 3: Are these from that day when you got the Christmas tree? Yeah, that looks accurate. [00:52:00] Patrick Clancy: Okay. [00:52:01] Speaker ?: Okay. Okay. We can have the first photo of all five. Exhibit six. And then the second one is exhibit seven. [00:52:13] Speaker 3: Exhibit seven. [00:52:14] Speaker ?: Exhibit seven. [00:52:14] Speaker 3: Exhibit seven. [00:52:15] Speaker ?: Exhibit seven. Exhibit six. All of you at the tree farm? Yeah. And exhibit seven, those are the kids? Yes. Yes. [00:52:22] Speaker 3: And exhibit seven, those are the kids? [00:52:23] Speaker ?: Yes. And exhibit seven, those are the kids? Yes. And exhibit seven, those are the kids? Yes. Okay. All of you at the tree farm? Yeah. And exhibit seven, those are the kids? Yes. Around December 6th, those are the kids? Yes. [00:52:28] Speaker 3: Okay. [00:52:29] Speaker ?: All of you at the tree farm? [00:52:29] Speaker 3: Yeah. And exhibit seven, those are the kids? Yes. Around December 6th, 2022, did Lindsay tell you she was starting a new medication? [00:53:02] Patrick Clancy: I don't remember specifically. [00:53:08] Speaker 3: Is it that you don't remember the date or you don't remember her starting a new medication? [00:53:13] Patrick Clancy: I'm not sure. [00:53:16] Speaker 3: Do you remember Lindsay telling you at some point she was starting the medication Seroquel? [00:53:21] Patrick Clancy: Yes. [00:53:22] Speaker 3: Do you remember around what timeframe that was? [00:53:25] Patrick Clancy: I thought it was before December 6th. [00:53:28] Speaker 3: Okay. And do you recall how she was physically after starting the Seroquel? Awful. [00:53:45] Patrick Clancy: How so? That was really where her big spiral started. She started to lose a lot of weight and she became very depressed and she was having a really hard time.