🚨 SECOND Karen Read/Reporter Transcript RELEASED!

[0:00] Even though she doesn't ever go over to the body, but she notices that the phone is under him. [0:07] We can't speak, but there's something coming out. [0:09] I approached the house from a direction that would not have necessitated a three-point turn, and they got screwed by that. [0:17] And look at this. Higgy Bear's face is looking straight down. [0:21] He can't even look to the right because John is right there. [0:23] I don't think we're going to have time, Alan. We have to have everything filed by tomorrow. [0:27] Because if he turns his head just a little to the right, he would make eye contact with John. [0:31] Something is up between these two, obviously. [0:34] That definitely is true. Now, let's look to see if Karen's actually doing the shot. [0:41] He normally does Dateline, so he's doing our Dateline piece. [0:46] Oh, you are doing Dateline? [0:48] We're continuing our analysis of the transcripts of the conversation between Gresham Voss, a reporter, and Karen Reed. [0:55] There was a follow-up meeting for which we now have the transcript. Let's watch. [0:59] Oh, when does the Dateline thing come out? [1:03] Not until it's adjudicated. It's embargoed. No, we're not going to be everywhere. Just the Today Show. It's only because we probably can't speak again. [1:15] Yeah, and you look really nice, by the way. [1:17] Oh, my God, thank you. I have on the exact same clothes that I wore the last time I saw you. [1:23] I am so fussy about the pants and everything. [1:27] This was filmed in New York. Like, this was done in March. [1:32] This is who Dennis is. [1:34] So, Alan and I were hoping that any gaps you have as you're going through this, anything that would fill in, [1:40] especially from Alan, because you and I have spoken a lot, but is there anything that, like... [1:45] What are the biggest problems with how the Commonwealth is approaching this? [1:52] Like, not giving you the evidence you need? Like, just from his point of view? [1:56] Apparently, after doing a very long interview, they had this follow-up interview where it was just Alan Jackson, Gretchen Voss, and Karen. [2:05] This is interesting. So, I was just telling Karen that I went by the waterfall last weekend, [2:11] and I wasn't going to, like, sit there and interview everyone, but this waitress was really chatty, and I was like, [2:19] oh, you know, and I just kind of brought it up and blah, blah, blah, and she goes, yeah. [2:23] Was her name Bridget? [2:24] I don't know her name, because I was just trying to be. She had brown hair. She had... [2:30] Heavy? [2:30] Heavy tattoos. [2:32] Poor Bridget being called heavy by both Gretchen and Karen. [2:35] I think she testified before the grand jury. [2:38] She said to me that we never served her. [2:41] They didn't serve me. [2:43] Never said... never served her. [2:44] I didn't drink there. [2:46] That's Karen Reed telling Gretchen that she never drank at the waterfall, and I didn't think she did either, [2:51] but we do have some video from the waterfall that may contradict what she just said there. [2:56] Okay, then I need to go back. For some reason, I thought they had, like, your drinks by the time... [3:02] I was at a bar before, and they knew by the bills... [3:06] That the bar before... [3:09] But I didn't really drink at the second bar. I just socialized. [3:12] We know that Karen and John were at C.F. McCarthy's, a bar located near the waterfall. [3:17] After they left C.F. McCarthy's, they went over to the waterfall. [3:21] According to Brian Patrick Higgins' old Higgy Bear, Karen and John were able to smuggle out Karen's drink from C.F. McCarthy's and bring it to the waterfall. [3:30] And this is the same girl. She's heavy. [3:34] Yeah. [3:34] There's only, like, two bartenders. That's the owner's daughter. [3:39] She's gruff. [3:40] She testified before the grand jury that I didn't appear drunk. [3:44] I was talking. I was fine. There was no arguing. And no, she didn't serve me. I never went to the bar. [3:50] Interesting. So I must have conflated the two places. [3:54] We were at both places for 90 minutes. So 90 minutes at the end of the night with no alcohol. [3:59] Okay, we just heard Karen claim that for 90 minutes at the waterfall, she didn't have any alcoholic drinks. [4:05] And that's what I thought initially until Samantha correctly pointed out that Karen did have drinks at the waterfall. Let's watch. [4:13] Brian's making everyone come over and do a shot. Karen doesn't drink it. [4:16] And look at John lurking in the back. And this is important, too, throughout the rest of the night. [4:20] Here comes a shot. Higgy doesn't look. [4:23] She doesn't do it or he does? [4:24] Because Brian Albert commanded everyone at the bar to react and do this. [4:30] Yeah. [4:31] Yeah, Higgins drinks it. She doesn't drink it. Higgins does. [4:34] She does not. [4:34] No, she does. [4:36] Well, she's drinking something. [4:38] Boy, was I wrong. Karen down that shot like a champ. [4:41] Oh, yeah. I never saw that, actually. [4:43] She did do it. [4:43] Is that the shot? [4:45] I think it was. [4:46] Wow. Wow. I thought she gave it to someone else. [4:49] That's interesting. [4:49] Wait, let's look again. [4:50] Yeah, she's definitely got her arm up and she's nodding and whatever he's saying, she's... [4:58] Wow. [5:00] Oh, she's got it in her hand. [5:01] Ah, she turns. [5:03] She sips it. [5:03] Nope, she does it. [5:05] That is a shot. [5:06] All right. [5:07] I can't do a shot. I'm a big pansy. [5:08] That definitely is true. [5:09] Now, let's look to see if Karen's actually doing the shot. [5:15] And here is something I just noticed. [5:17] Look at everybody's face and arms when Brian Albert is commanding everyone to do a shot. [5:23] Naturally, everyone's looking towards the middle except for one person. [5:26] Brian Patrick Higgins, old Higgy Bear. [5:29] He keeps his head directly pointed to the left. [5:32] It's awkward and it definitely indicates something up because if he turns his head just a little [5:36] to the right, he would make eye contact with John. [5:39] Something is up between these two, obviously. [5:44] And look at this. [5:45] Higgy Bear's face is looking straight down. [5:47] He can't even look to the right because John is right there. [5:53] Wow is right. [5:54] She's got it in her hand. [5:56] Ah, she turns. [5:57] She sips it. [5:58] Nope, she does it. [5:59] That is a shot. [6:01] And look at Higgy Bear's face when he's drinking his Jameson and Ginger. [6:04] He turns directly away from John O'Keefe. [6:07] All right. [6:07] I can't do a shot. [6:08] I'm a big pansy. [6:13] He was just saying to Karen, I was hoping to get from you your biggest points of the things [6:20] that you think the Commonwealth is just the most egregious things that they're doing right [6:26] now. [6:26] The evidence you haven't seen. [6:29] Any of it. [6:30] Told the court on February 8th it would be all done in 30 days. [6:34] Kills our momentum too because our case is built on the lies that we find in their case. [6:39] The inconsistencies and the more they give us lies and I were speaking on the phone last [6:46] night. [6:46] She goes, I can't wait to get this latest discovery. [6:50] The criminalistics reports and we love going through it because it's boom, boom, boom. [6:56] This isn't what they said three months ago. [6:58] This isn't what they said two years ago. [7:00] We know the Commonwealth delayed turning over evidence and the judge Beverly Canoni made [7:05] it very hard for her team to obtain critical electronic data, specifically where Brian Albert [7:11] and Brian Patrick Higgins were during that morning. [7:14] And I feel like they want them. [7:18] It's a great question, though. [7:20] What do they think the end game is? [7:23] It's almost easier to prove first degree or manslaughter. [7:27] Part of what's precipitated this is we asked for John's forensic image of his phone and we [7:33] were able to prove that he had waves on that night. [7:37] Getting the forensics from John's phone was very critical because it showed the route for [7:42] which Karen and John took. [7:43] It was impossible for them to have been at 34 Fairview before 1224. [7:48] Recall that when we initially started this, we thought that John was at the house at 1221. [7:53] It's simply impossible based upon the route they took and the video evidence of Karen driving [7:59] by the various locations for which we have video. [8:02] Remember, Karen went a weird route. [8:04] She actually missed the turn, causing her arrival to be delayed. [8:07] And that I approached the house from a direction that would not have necessitated a three-point [8:14] turn and they got screwed by that. [8:16] She certainly did. [8:18] And now we can understand partially why that was missed by her team initially. [8:23] And raise the question, how would I be if I changed my story 18 innings into this case? [8:32] Not even location tracking. [8:34] What mile did it occur? [8:37] They didn't even say what time. [8:40] Higgins also testified he was parked in the street the entire night, which also contradicts [8:47] Nagel's testimony and Matt McCabe and Jen McCabe. [8:52] I'm not sure exactly how that contradicts Hen McCabe's and Chubb's McCabe's testimony with [8:57] regard to the Jeep. [8:58] We know that Brian Patrick did not park his girly Jeep in front of the house during the [9:02] initial part of that night. [9:04] Street? [9:05] Higgins says he was parked in front where he would have been, where his Jeep was between [9:10] Ryan Nagel and me. [9:12] Jen McCabe didn't testify that she saw Higgins' Jeep. [9:15] Matt didn't and Ryan didn't. [9:17] I think Karen's referring to their testimony at the grand jury. [9:21] So that also would have been visible. [9:23] He stayed there all night until he left at 1.30 to go do administrative work. [9:27] I know you hate the air quotes and the road bends. [9:31] Did you go by the other night? [9:32] In the direction that we know I came in, they have not released the details of the 62 feet. [9:38] That's been in discovery a month ago. [9:40] Karen's referring to the dopey data from the car that doesn't have any date corresponding [9:45] with it. [9:46] Apparently, it indicates her vehicle traveled 62 feet in reverse. [9:49] The problem is we don't know exactly when that was because the software that outputs [9:53] that data does not correlate it with the actual time. [9:57] So it's virtually useless. [9:58] And that's nothing I can see? [10:00] I don't think we're going to have time, Alan. [10:02] We have to have everything filed by tomorrow. [10:04] And then Gretchen's music. [10:06] Another thing we can also share because it wasn't in one of the affidavits exhibits. [10:10] Um, we can show her the path of travel that John and I took from the bar, the Waves' map [10:18] with the way we went, because that's our evidence. [10:21] It sounds like Karen's the lead attorney in charge. [10:23] Also that John's phone pinged at 8 at Good Samaritan, and nobody reported to be at the [10:29] hospital, particularly with John's phone. [10:32] There was some controversy early on with regard to John's phone. [10:36] There is no evidence that it was ever removed from 34 Fairview until after his body was discovered [10:42] there. [10:43] That wasn't something we released either. [10:44] We purposely left that out. [10:47] John's phone started to leave the crime scene. [10:50] Then it went back. [10:51] This is at 7. [10:53] And then at 8, it's in Brockton at Good Samaritan. [10:56] It goes to Canton PD, and that's where it stays. [10:58] We heard the audio from a PD cruiser where Lank and that big old boy Seraph were sitting, [11:03] and they actually referenced having John's phone. [11:06] No, then it goes to, at midnight, it goes to the DA's office in Canton, and then it shuts [11:11] off. [11:12] I think it's amazing that the McCabes and Carrie Roberts, I'm still thinking about what they [11:20] said to her, that they won't talk. [11:22] That perfectly confirms it. [11:24] Why wouldn't they say, we know there was something? [11:27] Why would they lie and say something like, we believe he wanted to break up with her? [11:31] And I don't know, we can't speak, but there's something coming out, which there isn't. [11:37] I mean, I don't know. [11:38] That makes me happy that I think that, even though she doesn't ever go over to the body, [11:45] but she notices that the phone is under him. [11:48] They're referring to Carrie Roberts and a theory that perhaps the phone was planted [11:52] on John's body after it was found. [11:55] There's just simply not enough evidence to make that contention. [11:58] She's not there. [11:59] We watched the video. [12:01] When they put his body on the gurney, she is not there. [12:05] Asked her if there's blankets in the car, and she asked, because we're in Carrie Roberts' [12:11] car. [12:11] She says, Carrie, are there blankets? [12:13] And Carrie says, look in the trunk. [12:15] Very fascinating conversation between Karen Reed and the reporter Gretchen Voss. [12:21] This was the second meeting several months later after the initial meeting, which was [12:26] much longer and had about 170 pages worth of transcripts. [12:30] Because we have yet to hear Karen testify at trial or during her deposition, this is as [12:36] close as we're going to come to hearing her story. [12:38] And despite some inconsistencies, it doesn't really matter. [12:42] Karen Reed never struck John O'Keefe with her SUV because there was just one person waiting [12:47] and lurking that was in love with her, that was texting the rival mailmate, you coming here. [12:54] Yes, I said you coming here, followed by three question marks. [12:57] Just minutes before he did, and just minutes before he tacked, and that was Brian Patrick [13:01] Higgins' old Hickey Bear. [13:03] You can blame everyone else in the world, but there's only one person that had the means, [13:07] motive, and opportunity to kill John O'Keefe. [13:10] And that's our old cuddly but violent Hickey Bear. [13:13] So no matter what, we will never listen closely, Brian Patrick Higgins, ever stop producing these [13:19] videos until the real killer, Brian Higgins, is brought to justice. [13:23] This crime was very simple to solve because it took place within a very small area over [13:27] a very short period of time with a very limited amount of suspects. [13:31] One or more of these 10 people has to be the killer of John O'Keefe. [13:35] That's how easy this is. [13:36] Once you remove the kids and the McCabes, you're down to just three suspects. [13:40] Brian Albert, Higgy Bear, and Chloe. [13:42] Since Chloe's a good dog, she didn't do it. [13:44] I didn't do it. [13:46] I'm a good dog. [13:47] I didn't do it. [13:47] So that leaves just two suspects, Brian Albert and Higgy Bear. [13:51] But of the two Bryans, only one had the means, motive, and opportunity to kill John O'Keefe. [13:57] And that's our old cuddly but violent Higgy Bear. [13:59] Once we had all the facts and didn't jump to conclusions to see how easy it was to solve [14:03] this crime. [14:04] Tell me about who you discussed this temperature information with. [14:09] It was with Hank. [14:12] This is truly the master class. [14:14] You're hesitating and I can't hear you. [14:15] Who did you discuss with Hank? [14:17] If you want to learn how to do courtroom testimony, you watch Ian Whiffen. [14:20] Hank. [14:21] Excuse me? [14:22] With Mr. Brennan. [14:23] Attorney Brennan? [14:24] Yes. [14:24] Ian was amazing in court. [14:26] The judge was even smiling at you, Ian, when you were done testifying. [14:31] I felt like everyone wanted to give you a round of applause. [14:33] What is freezing in Fahrenheit? [14:36] I don't know. [14:37] The way Ian can explain extremely technical details is astounding. [14:44] Would you agree that 32 degrees Fahrenheit is the freezing point in Fahrenheit? [14:49] Um, this is a good question. [14:52] I honestly wouldn't know. [14:53] The kids think Ian's a doctor because he's so smart. [14:56] Uh-oh, it looks like Sir Ian Whiffen failed to properly convert Celsius to Fahrenheit. [15:01] So he's Dr. Whiffen, according to our household. [15:04] Okay, I didn't get a degree. [15:05] I'm originally from the UK.