‘You answered your question’: Cabrera tells Ferrer she responded to herself — ABS-CBN News

[0:01] Now, sir, you mentioned that you reviewed the year-end balances of each of the bank accounts. [0:08] That's right, pa. [0:09] But you did not conduct your own confirmation as to the nature of these accounts with the banks, correct? [0:16] Of course, I know the answer to that because you were not authorized by the account holders. [0:22] You answered your question, pa. [0:23] Thank you, sir. [0:25] And, of course, you were not also given authority to send confirmation letters to the banks, correct? [0:34] Tama po. [0:34] That's why no confirmation letters were also sent to these banks which you examined. [0:40] Tama po. [0:41] Nag-testify naman po yung mga taga-banko po dito. [0:43] Okay, sir. [0:44] Yes, sir, that is already known to everyone. [0:50] Now, with that, sir, you were not given any authority to inquire into any outstanding loans of the VP and her husband. [1:00] That's right, pa. [1:01] You were not given copies of loan documents from the bank, if any, correct? [1:07] Tama po. [1:08] And you were also not given copies of other bank documents aside from those that were provided to you by the prosecution. [1:18] Tama po. [1:19] Okay, thank you, sir. [1:20] Did you examine each and every transaction in the bank documents that were furnished to you, sir? [1:44] As much as we can po, pero very limited po yung time. [1:47] Pero as much as we can, we did what we could with the bank accounts po. [1:52] Okay, thank you, sir. [2:00] Because we did not see any statement here in your report that you examined all of the bank transactions of the vice president and her spouse. [2:08] One by one po. [2:10] Yes. [2:10] Laat po ng transaction. [2:11] O-o. [2:12] Opo. [2:12] Meron po kami mga hinanap doon sa mga eliminations. [2:16] Pero bawat isang transaction po na examine each and every transaction. [2:22] You were not able to examine all of those, sir? [2:24] Ang in-examine po namin ay ano po yung inflows, tapos ano po yung mga dapat tanggalin po doon sa inflows. [2:31] Okay, sir. [2:32] So, in short, sir, as you have said earlier, hanggang kaya lang. [2:36] So, you were not able to examine all of the bank documents, each and every transaction stated in the bank documents that were provided to you by the prosecution. [2:47] Kung ano po yung naibigay lamang po sa amin, yun lang po ang pwede naming pagbasihan. [2:51] Okay, thank you, sir. [2:53] Did you also check, sir, whether the signature of the vice president appeared in the documents that you examined? [3:05] Yes, pa. [3:07] Did you check whether her signatures appear in the acquisition of manager's checks? [3:17] Ang nag-a-appear po doon yung application po. [3:19] Application form. [3:20] Yeah, I'm sorry. [3:21] Yung pangalan niya. [3:21] Yes, sir. [3:22] I will rephrase that question. [3:23] Yes. [3:24] The application form, I'm referring to that, sir. [3:26] The application form concerning the application of manager's checks. [3:30] Wala po siyang signature doon, pero yung pangalan niya lang po yung nakalagay. [3:33] So, in short, based on the documents that you examined, the vice president has no signature in all of the applications for manager's checks in the documents that you examined. [3:44] Ito po ba yung sa kanilang joint bank accounts po? [3:46] Later, we will go to that, sir. [3:47] Okay, you also examined the signature of the vice president in the renewal of her signature cards, if such document was furnished to you, sir. [4:04] Apa. [4:05] But there was no mention here in your… [4:07] Yung KYC pa. [4:08] Yung KYC update niya pa. [4:11] Update, yes, sir. [4:12] Yung KYC update niya. [4:13] Yes, you were able to examine those, sir. [4:15] Apa. [4:16] But there was no mention here of the examination done by you, sir, of those updated KYC documents. [4:23] Am I correct? [4:24] Parang hindi ko po nabanggit dito yung updated KYC documents po. [4:28] Salamat po. [4:29] Now, in examining the bank accounts, sir, of the vice president, you considered the bank accounts that were singly owned by Mr. Manasa Scarpio, correct? [4:49] That's right po. [4:51] And this is found under tables 2 and 4 of your… [4:57] Tama po. [4:58] …of your report, sir. [5:01] Okay. [5:03] But do you have any personal knowledge whether the vice president actually knew the existence of this account? [5:09] Personal knowledge po? [5:10] Wala po. [5:10] Wala. [5:11] Salamat, sir. [5:12] On the record straight, sir, this examination of the bank balances that you made, this was made without hearing the side of the account owners. [5:27] Specifically, the spouses, Scarpio. [5:30] As mentioned po, documents lang po tinignan namin. [5:32] Salamat po. [5:34] It did not consider also the inputs, comments, and clarifications of these spouses, as you had mentioned, sir. [5:41] Opo. [5:43] It did not also consider the side of the former president, Rodrigo Roa Duterte, with respect to the account or accounts that he singly owned and or jointly held with the vice president, correct? [5:55] Tama po. [5:56] You also did not consider the passbooks and other documents in possession of the respondent and her spouse. [6:04] Passbook additional cash po na hindi namin nagsasamin? [6:07] Those bank… [6:08] I will repeat my question, sir. [6:11] You did not also consider the bank documents in possession of the respondent and her husband. [6:16] Lahat po ng bank documents po na nasa amin lang. [6:19] Kung meron pa po silang ibang bank document, hindi ko po alam yan. [6:22] Salamat po. [6:23] Now, you said also, sir, in your report that you received copies of the AMLC reports, correct? [6:34] Opo. [6:34] But nowhere in the computation of the cash balances were the AMLC reports mentioned, correct? [6:45] Opo. [6:45] It is because, if you agree with me, the computation of cash balance is based on actual cash flows, correct? [6:57] Tama po. [6:57] And not merely on supposed total inflows and outflows, correct? [7:03] AMLC po ba pinag-usapan? [7:05] Yes, sir. [7:05] Opo. [7:06] Opo. [7:06] Opo. [7:06] Opo. [7:06] Opo. [7:06] Opo. [7:06] Opo. [7:06] Opo. [7:07] Opo. [7:07] Opo. [7:07] Opo. [7:07] Opo. [7:08] Opo. [7:08] Opo. [7:08] Opo. [7:09] Opo. [7:10] Opo. [7:11] Opo. [7:13] Opo. [7:14] Opo. [7:15] Opo. [7:16] Opo. [7:17] Opo. [7:18] Thank you, sir. [7:22] So, you agree with me also that the amount of, I hope you bear with me, sir, the amount [7:27] of inflows of 1.1,630,351,607.68 supposed inflows do not appear in your report. [7:49] Saan po nanggaling yung amount? [7:51] AMLC po. [7:52] Iba po yung total nila eh. [7:54] Okay, sir. [7:55] Thank you. [7:55] Every time po natag nila yung total nila. [7:57] Thank you, sir. [7:58] Because, as you said earlier, their totals are not considered in computing the net assets [8:03] of the respondent. [8:04] Correct? [8:04] Tama po. [8:05] Thank you. [8:07] And it's the same with the supposed outflows from the AMLC, which is 1,308,123,526.68 pesos. [8:21] The same does not appear in your forensic report. [8:24] Tama po. [8:25] Thank you, sir. [8:33] Sir, let's go to the investments portion and the insurance. [8:38] As a lawyer, sir, I am sure you are aware of Section 3, RA 10607, or the insurance code. [8:57] We will show the provision on screen. [9:00] Check, please. [9:03] Can it be zoomed? [9:08] Sir, I hope you can see that. [9:14] But nevertheless, I will read the provision, sir. [9:16] Section 3 of RA 10607, otherwise known as the insurance code. [9:23] It says that any contingent or unknown event, whether past or future, which may damnify a [9:31] person having an insurable interest or create a liability against him may be insured against [9:38] subject to the provisions of this chapter. [9:40] And then the second sentence says, the consent of the spouse is not necessary for the validity [9:46] of an insurance policy taken out by a married person on his or her life or that of his children. [9:54] I hope that is clear. [9:57] Now, sir, based on this section, the consent of the spouse is unnecessary when the other [10:06] spouse takes out an insurance policy. [10:08] Correct? [10:10] Tama po. [10:11] And you have no personal knowledge, sir, whether the Vice President actually knew about the [10:18] policies or insurance policies that were taken out by Manassas Carpio. [10:23] Ang knowledge lang po namin is absolute community of property po. [10:26] Yes, sir. [10:27] But on the actual knowledge of the Vice President as to this insurance, you have no knowledge, [10:32] you have no personal information or personal knowledge about this. [10:35] About ano po? [10:36] About whether the VP has actual knowledge of this insurance policies of Mr. Carpio. [10:41] Wala pa, wala pa. [10:44] Okay. [10:44] Thank you, sir. [10:45] Now, let's go to the business interest, sir. [11:03] Page 10, sir, of the report. [11:21] Did you find it, sir? [11:22] Apo, apo. [11:22] Thank you. [11:23] For the business interest under letter C, sir, you mentioned here in the first paragraph, [11:35] second sentence, I hope you can follow, sir, that to accurately report the value of a business, [11:42] a formal valuation exercise should be conducted. [11:46] Tama po. [11:47] However, you continued, for lack of information and material time, to conduct such valuation exercise, [11:55] we were conservatively used as a valuation her interest in business and of her spouse. [12:01] Now, I'll stop on that because we will tackle all of this. [12:06] Now, based on this statement, sir, due to lack of material time, you did not conduct a valuation exercise, [12:17] formal valuation exercise. [12:18] Apo. [12:19] Wala rin pong information. [12:20] Okay, sir. [12:21] Thank you, sir. [12:21] And am I correct to say, sir, that from the moment that you were furnished copies of the bank documents on September 8th, [12:35] after rather, September 8th, around the second week of September 8th, and then up to the time that you finished your report in October 2th, [12:45] is that correct, sir? [12:45] Did you finish your report in October 2th? [12:47] October 2th. [12:48] So, from the second week of September to October 2th, you barely had two weeks to finish the forensic report, sir? [12:58] Is that correct? [12:59] September 2th, October 2th. [13:01] September 2nd week. [13:03] So, three weeks po namin. [13:04] Ma, three weeks. [13:05] Okay, around three weeks. [13:06] Okay, we'll take that answer, sir. [13:07] So, yes, sir. [13:11] So, we will, so your forensic report was done in a matter of around three weeks, correct? [13:19] That's the complete examination of documents. [13:21] No, it's not only three weeks, because there's a first part, right? [13:25] No, the ones that we received the documents coming from the... [13:30] Those are the documents that came from the SEC, right? [13:33] SEC, AMLA po, o po. [13:36] But you said earlier that... [13:39] Bank accounts po. [13:40] Okay. [13:40] Pero yung forensic report po kasi is kasama po yung mga SEC, di po ba? [13:44] Okay, sir. [13:44] We take that. [13:45] But insofar as the bank accounts are concerned, you only had three weeks to examine all of those bank accounts. [13:52] Okay, thank you, sir. [13:56] Now, in computing the supposed... [13:59] In computing the supposed business interest of the VP, you focus on these two corporations. [14:05] I'm talking about the business interest, sir. [14:08] The Gen Corp, Industries Inc., you can look at your notes. [14:14] And then, Kale 88 Foods Corporation, correct? [14:18] Metro City Chao din po. [14:20] I'm still on page 10, sir. [14:28] Interest in businesses. [14:30] Ah, po. [14:30] Kale po ito... [14:31] Alleged interest in businesses. [14:34] Now, I'm just reading your report, sir. [14:36] So, yeah. [14:37] So, alleged interest in businesses. [14:39] So, in computing... [14:41] Wala pong nakalagay na alleged sa report ko po. [14:44] Ah, that's our position, sir. [14:46] Sabi niyo po you're reading my report po eh. [14:48] Hindi, kanina po. [14:49] So, we're... [14:51] That is our position, sir. [14:53] I'm sorry. [14:54] So, you consider these two corporations, the Gen Corp Industries Inc. and Kale 88 Foods Corporation. [15:00] Now, in computing the business interest of the VP, you considered... [15:12] or the capital investments in Gen Corp, we're on Gen Corp, sir. [15:19] Okay. [15:21] The capital investments in Gen Corp, you formulated table 15, sir. [15:34] Let's go to table 15. [15:35] Before that, sir, preliminary questions. [15:47] The Gen Corp, Gen Corp was mentioned in the Vice Presidents 2024 and 2025, Salen. [15:54] Tama po. [15:54] That was your position. [15:56] Tama po. [15:56] That was my observation. [15:58] Yes, sir. [15:59] But you also observed that, according to you, there was no valuation that can be found in the Salen, correct? [16:10] Wala pa. [16:10] Now, we are showing you copies of the 2024 and 2025 Salen. [16:14] We will not show copies of these documents. [16:17] We will only show these documents to the witness. [16:20] Okay. [16:21] Now, we are showing you copies of the 2024 and 2025 Salen, sir. [16:28] Let's go to page four. [16:30] Let's go to page four on business interest and financial connections on page four. [16:43] Sir, would you agree with me that that section in the Salen does not include a column of acquisition cost of shares of stock? [16:50] Tama po. [16:51] Mag-uapir po siya dapat doon sa investments po. [16:53] Sir, I'm only asking with respect to that column. [16:56] Mayroon po sa kabila, mayroon po. [16:58] For both the years 2024 and 2025? [17:00] Opo. [17:01] Okay. [17:02] But nonetheless, you allege in your report that the value of the respondent, vice president's business interest were not reported in the Salen because of lack of valuation in that column, sir. [17:13] In that portion. [17:15] Dito po siya dapat sa binilagay. [17:17] I'm asking only about that portion. [17:19] Dito po, doon sa page na yun po, wala po. [17:21] Okay. [17:21] Thank you, sir. [17:21] Pero dito po, wala rin po nakalagay. [17:23] Okay, sir. [17:24] Thank you, sir. [17:24] So, the answer is there is no indication of cost in that particular column. [17:29] Tama po. [17:29] Thank you, sir. [17:30] Now, in computing the supposed business interest of the VP in GenCorp, you considered two items, sir. [17:41] The first item is the supposed amount of investments per GIS. [17:47] Tama po. [17:48] Okay. [17:48] The second is a derived capital contribution. [17:52] When you say derived capital contribution, sir, correct me if I'm wrong or at least I have heard this also from your counsel. [17:59] That derived capital is what we call also as an attributed capital, correct? [18:06] Okay. [18:06] Attributed capital. [18:08] In fact, your team came up with an attributed capital of the VP in GenCorp at 20%, correct? [18:14] Tama po. [18:15] And this 20% attribution was based on the assumption that the VP and her spouse exercise significant influence over GenCorp, correct? [18:27] Si VP lang po. [18:28] Si VP, okay. [18:29] Hindi po kasama yung spouse po. [18:30] Si VP, yes. [18:32] VP exercised significant influence over GenCorp. [18:35] And the second reason for this attribution is that the vice president owns or has equity of 20% in Metro Chow City Foods Corporation. [18:48] Hindi lang po yun. [18:49] Pero tama po kayo na part po yun. [18:51] Okay, sir. [18:52] Thank you, sir. [18:53] But that attribution or assumption was not based on any contract or document that you have examined, correct? [19:00] Wala pong kontrata. [19:01] Okay. [19:01] Thank you, sir. [19:02] It was not based on any deed of assignment or deed of subscription or any subscription agreement which was made available to you for your examination, correct? [19:13] Tama po. [19:14] Because nothing was made available to you for your examination. [19:17] Tama po. [19:18] So, yung absence po ng document ay ebidensya rin po sa amin yun. [19:21] Okay, sir. [19:22] Thank you. [19:22] Thank you. [19:22] Thank you. [19:23] Thank you. [19:23] Thank you. [19:24] Thank you.