Xi Insulted Trump To His Face And In Front Of Cameras During Pivotal Meeting In China: Gordon Chang

[0:03] Hi, everybody. I'm Brittany Lewis, a breaking news reporter here at Forbes. [0:07] Joining me once again is Gordon Chang. [0:09] He's a political commentator and author of Plan Red, China's Project to Destroy America. [0:14] Gordon, thanks so much for coming back on. [0:16] Oh, thank you so much, Brittany. [0:17] You and I talked before this meeting and what to expect. [0:21] One of your takeaways is you thought President Xi was giving President Trump the metaphorical middle finger ahead of this meeting. [0:28] I'm curious what your takeaways here are now, now that it's wrapped up. [0:32] The two-day summit between President Donald Trump and President Xi Jinping has officially concluded in Beijing. [0:39] And this was the first time a U.S. president was in China for this type of meeting since President Trump was last there in his first term back in 2017. [0:48] President Trump said this, this has been an incredible visit. [0:51] I think a lot of good has come from it. [0:53] And he touted the strong relationship between both countries and both leaders. [0:57] So before we get into specifics, what are your overall takeaways of the meeting? [1:01] Well, Xi Jinping was incredibly arrogant and brazen. [1:06] On Thursday, in front of President Trump and in front of the cameras, he actually referred to the Thucydides trap. [1:14] That's a reference to the Peloponnesian Wars, where you had a rising power challenge a declining ruling hegemon. [1:24] And so what Xi Jinping was saying was that China is rising and President Trump was leading a failing society. [1:32] But it got even worse than that because Xi Jinping also referred to the, quote, new era. [1:39] That's Xi Jinping speak for the time when China rules the world and where the U.S. is irrelevant. [1:45] So this was, you know, this was just to me, I hadn't heard a Chinese leader say those things or anything like that to an American president. [1:58] And it shows you that deterrence is breaking down and that Xi Jinping is willing to insult the American president to his face. [2:06] Why do you think, A, he feels that he can do that now? [2:10] Because you're saying this was a line that no Chinese leader has crossed before. [2:15] Now Xi Jinping is crossing it. [2:17] And not only that, but President Trump was extremely complimentary of Xi, both to his face, to the media, and in an interview with Hannity. [2:25] I want to talk about what he said. [2:27] President Trump said that Xi was a great leader, told Hannity. [2:31] I think he's a warm person, actually, but he's all business. [2:34] Also talked about his appearance, said he was tall, said it looks like he came right out of central casting. [2:40] And this contrasts directly with how President Trump frequently talks about Americans, American politicians on both sides of the aisle. [2:47] He's called Republicans that don't agree with him 100 percent of the time traitors. [2:51] Right before this meeting, right before he left earlier this week, he posted a photo of Presidents Obama and Biden [2:58] and former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi swimming in the Lincoln Memorial Reflecting Pool with what looks like human waste floating all around them. [3:06] And the caption was, Democrats love sewage. [3:09] Obviously a play on words for Democrats. [3:12] What are your thoughts on how President Trump was talking about Xi? [3:16] I just thought it was inappropriate. [3:20] President Trump should have replied sharply to Xi Jinping's insults. [3:24] Instead, we get this continued flowery language and compliments from President Trump. [3:31] Now, you can look at this and say, well, President Trump is just being confident. [3:36] He's just sort of sloughing it off. [3:38] But unfortunately, Chinese are going to look at this and say that President Trump acknowledges his submission to Xi Jinping [3:45] and that Trump wouldn't dare oppose Xi even after being metaphorically slapped in the face. [3:53] And that message, although I think it's wrong, is really going to resonate around the world. [4:00] Now, I'm sure our president is going to get back at Xi Jinping in some way. [4:05] But it's not going to be in public and it's not going to be something that the United States will be able to propagate [4:12] in the way that the Chinese regime is propagating this. [4:16] Because we've already seen this now on X, that China's friends are now dissing the president of the United States [4:23] and our country itself. [4:24] I'm sure this has happened to you. [4:27] This probably has happened to everyone. [4:29] When you have a conversation with someone and then after that conversation, you're thinking, [4:33] wait a second, is that remark that they said, was that actually an insult? [4:38] And it kind of went over my head until now I'm thinking back at that conversation. [4:42] Do you think President Trump at the time knew that that was an insult or do you think he didn't? [4:48] Yeah, I'm not sure. [4:50] But the one thing we do know is that he did take the truth social and he commented on that [4:56] and said that Xi Jinping was referring to his predecessor and that America was weak during the Biden years. [5:03] But, you know, Biden was not in the room in Beijing on Thursday. [5:09] It was President Trump. [5:10] And President Trump needs to, instead of making excuses for a militant China, [5:15] he needs to stand up for our country. [5:18] So I think that whatever President Trump knew at the moment, [5:22] he has misjudged the feelings of the American people. [5:26] Because I don't think people are going to like this. [5:29] I do want to talk about some big topics that were hit. [5:35] Let's start with Taiwan. [5:36] Because in the U.S. readout, Taiwan wasn't mentioned, [5:40] but China's foreign ministry spokesperson posted this to X. [5:45] President Xi stressed to President Trump that the Taiwan question is the most important issue [5:49] in China-U.S. relations. [5:52] If it is handled properly, the bilateral relationship will enjoy overall stability. [5:56] Otherwise, the two countries will have clashes and even conflicts, [5:59] putting the entire relationship in great jeopardy. [6:03] And then when posing for a photo with President Xi, [6:06] a reporter screamed out multiple times asking about Taiwan, asking if they talked about it. [6:11] President Trump first said China is beautiful. [6:13] And then he kind of blew off the question, [6:15] what do you make of how President Trump handled Taiwan? [6:18] And we'll get into more comments he said when departing China today. [6:25] I think that President Trump should have replied immediately. [6:27] President Xi's comments were very challenging. [6:33] They were, I think, inappropriate for a meeting of this sort. [6:37] But whatever they were, and however one feels about them, [6:41] Trump should have replied immediately. [6:43] And do you think that, according to China, [6:46] this is the biggest, the most important issue in China-U.S. relations? [6:51] And it kind of seems like a threat, though, right? [6:54] Am I reading this correctly? [6:55] This readout, if it's handled properly, this relationship will enjoy stability. [7:00] If not, we'll have clashes and conflicts. [7:03] I mean, President Trump was asked about the Taiwan issue on, after this meeting. [7:10] And he said, or the question was, would the U.S. defend Taiwan if it came to it? [7:13] President Trump said, I don't want to say. [7:15] He then went on to say, there's only one person that knows the real answer, and it's me. [7:18] And then he said, that question was asked to me today by President Xi. [7:23] I said, I don't want to talk about it. [7:25] And then when he was asked on Air Force One, when leaving China, [7:28] about the $14 billion arms sales package to Taiwan, [7:33] he said, I'll make that determination over the next fairly short period. [7:37] Someone then shouted out a question, you're not necessarily going to go ahead. [7:40] It was your proposal. [7:42] President Trump followed up with, I'll make a determination. [7:45] What do you make of that? [7:47] Oh, there are a lot of things. [7:48] First of all, it is settled U.S. policy not to talk about Taiwan arms sales with China. [7:55] And there's a reason for that policy. [7:58] And we can see it now, because it's now put President Trump in a very difficult position. [8:03] You know, I think that if he doesn't go ahead with the arms sales, [8:07] the Chinese will be emboldened. [8:08] And things will actually get worse, [8:10] because China will see that as a sign of weakness, [8:13] and they'll just press the advantage. [8:15] You know, Taiwan has been our Western defense perimeter since the 1800s. [8:21] And if we were to give that up, [8:23] we would see the Chinese Navy and Air Force surge into the Pacific, [8:27] where we don't want them. [8:29] And there's also this just notion that Taiwan has become a key test of American credibility and resolve, [8:36] especially after the failure in Afghanistan in August 2021. [8:41] So this is a zero-sum contest. [8:44] And Brittany, because Xi Jinping has decimated the top of the Chinese military, [8:50] I don't think that it's capable of invading the main island of Taiwan. [8:54] So this is the perfect time to make those arms sales to Taiwan so that we can bolster and enhance deterrence in East Asia. [9:04] And so this is a moment where I think that President Trump has put himself into a position where he's now got to respond. [9:11] And if he doesn't respond by making arms sales, [9:15] he is going to create, I think, a cascade of very bad outcomes for the United States [9:21] and for our friends and partners in East Asia. [9:24] Because, for instance, the Japanese are going to look at this, and they are going to be disheartened. [9:29] Read the tea leaves a little bit for us. [9:31] Once President Trump gets home and the pomp and circumstance is no longer there, [9:35] the pageantry's gone, he's sitting there, he's thinking about this, [9:38] he's talking with members of his administration, his advisors. [9:42] How do you think this will play out? [9:44] Do you think that arms sale will go forward? [9:47] I think it will, [9:48] because the consequences of it not going forward are really horrible across the board. [9:56] But, you know, I just don't know. [10:00] You know, the one good thing was that Secretary of State Rubio, [10:04] after Xi Jinping's comments, said that American policy was unchanged. [10:07] And that is a suggestion that, first of all, we just blew off his comments in that Xi Trump meeting. [10:14] But also that we're going to go ahead with what we had planned. [10:17] And that $14 billion arms sale was all set to go. [10:21] So my sense, and as you say, I'm just reading tea leaves, is that it'll go forward. [10:29] And then when you're looking at Iran, obviously, [10:31] it seems like President Trump wanted this war wrapped up before the summit. [10:35] That didn't happen. [10:36] Earlier in the week, he said that the ceasefire is on life support. [10:40] And I want to read what the White House readout of the summit as it pertains to Iran was. [10:46] They said this. [10:47] The two sides agreed that the Strait of Hormuz must remain open to support the free flow of energy. [10:52] President Xi also made clear China's opposition to the militarization of the strait [10:56] and any effort to charge a toll for its use. [10:59] And he expressed interest in purchasing more American oil [11:01] to reduce China's dependence on the strait in the future. [11:04] Both countries agreed that Iran can never have a nuclear weapon. [11:07] And then President Trump, he sat down with Fox News' Sean Hannity, [11:11] and he told him that President Xi would like to see a deal made. [11:16] And then he offered help, apparently, to President Trump in whatever way he could. [11:20] What do you make of the way that Iran was talked about? [11:26] Well, first of all, of course, China wants the strait of Hormuz open [11:29] because they get 45 to 50 percent of their seaborne oil imports through that critical waterway. [11:36] So they need it. [11:37] We've seen the oil shocks in China with gasoline and diesel prices [11:42] and its effect on factories. [11:46] But, you know, whether China is actually going to help or not. [11:50] Remember, China has been supplying weapons and everything else to Iran [11:54] except for combat personnel. [11:55] And, you know, when Xi Jinping says, well, Iran can't have a nuclear weapon, [12:02] I think it's incumbent on President Trump to say what no other American president has had the courage to say. [12:08] And that is that Iran has a nuclear weapons program because China has supplied equipment, [12:15] materials and technology either both directly and indirectly through Pakistan. [12:20] So, you know, we saw just in the last few hours the Chinese foreign ministry said, [12:26] well, there shouldn't have been a war in Iran right now. [12:30] Well, that's a criticism of President Trump. [12:32] And we need to push back and say, look, yes, there is a war, [12:36] but there would not have been a war had China not supplied Iran with all the fixings for its bomb program. [12:42] Then I want to talk about the last big topic of conversation, and that was trade. [12:49] President Trump said that both countries made some fantastic trade deals. [12:53] And President Trump also, in that Hannity interview, said that Xi wanted to buy 200 Boeing jets. [12:59] And then he said this, I think it was a commitment, sort of like a statement, but I think it was a commitment. [13:04] Do we know any firm details of those fantastic trade deals? [13:08] Or was it, you know, a lot of talk, but we haven't seen the action? [13:12] Or if there is action, will we ever see that? [13:17] Only very few people know at this time. [13:20] There are people at Boeing and there are people, some people may be in the top of the federal government [13:25] and some people in China. [13:27] But that's about it. [13:28] It's a very small circle. [13:30] There have been big Boeing announcements in connection with summits between American and Chinese leaders. [13:37] And we have seen that some of those deals have actually produced sales. [13:40] And some of those announcements, the sales have been canceled even after firm orders. [13:46] So we won't know for quite some time about that. [13:50] And, of course, the other two Bs, beef and beans, the same thing. [13:55] You know, President Trump gets some credit for this summit. [13:58] And, you know, I don't think he should have gone, but he does get some credit. [14:02] And that is almost all summits are canned. [14:05] In other words, everything has been decided before the foreign leader arrives on Chinese soil. [14:11] This one has not been the case. [14:13] There were substantive discussions going on. [14:16] And Trump has been trying to accommodate China to come to reach some agreements with China, [14:21] some way of going forward. [14:23] Now, I think that's futile for a lot of reasons. [14:27] I think that we shouldn't be trying to do that right now for a lot of reasons. [14:30] But give the guy credit for trying it. [14:33] The reason why I sort of feel we shouldn't go down this road is because we've gone down this road for decades. [14:39] And it's produced some pretty bad results for the United States. [14:43] And Xi Jinping is much more aggressive, as we could hear from those comments on Thursday, [14:48] where he just dissed the U.S. [14:51] So when, you know, I think that Trump just should have stopped the summit right there and said, [14:59] Xi Jinping, if you can't respect me, if you can't do this, then there's no point in talking. [15:05] And I think that would have produced a much better result because Xi Jinping needs the U.S. far more than we need him. [15:11] Sounds like you're saying that President Xi felt emboldened to criticize President Trump at this summit, [15:18] the United States at this summit. [15:20] I'm curious because both leaders clearly wanted to radiate strength not only to their home countries, [15:25] but to the entire world, the entire globe as well. [15:29] Who do you think came out as winners and losers here of this? [15:33] Well, this is only one round of a 15-round match, which won't be decided until September 24th, [15:40] when Xi Jinping is scheduled to come to Washington. [15:44] But you have to look at this and say, you know, round one goes to China, [15:50] because Xi Jinping made those comments and Trump did not respond appropriately. [15:56] So I'm worried about that. [15:58] Now, having said that, I don't think round one means that much, ultimately, [16:03] because Trump is Trump. [16:06] He will get his way. [16:08] You know, we have seen Trump push the Chinese around this year. [16:13] You start in January 3 with Venezuela. [16:16] You see what's happening in Cuba right now. [16:18] And, of course, we all know what's going on in Iran. [16:21] Trump is taking Chinese proxies off the board, and Xi Jinping is helpless, essentially. [16:26] So, you know, Xi Jinping's arrogance in the summit, I think, is a reflection of just frustration [16:33] and a need to show that he is as strong as Trump. [16:36] But he's not. [16:38] And I think that, essentially, you know, Trump let him get away with it. [16:44] But Trump is going to bring down the hammer. [16:46] I'm confident about that. [16:48] And I know that you said the next round will be in September when President Xi comes to America [16:54] for that summit with President Trump. [16:57] What are you looking out for between now and then, throughout the summer? [17:00] Are you looking to see if what was discussed here actually comes to fruition? [17:05] If these trade deals actually get inked? [17:08] If Iran, if China helps in any way? [17:10] What specifically are you looking out for next? [17:12] Yeah, it's all of the above, because, you know, Trump has made this, he's created some [17:18] markers for himself by saying this is what the Chinese have agreed to. [17:24] You know, there is a pretty distressing pattern when in summits between China and the United [17:28] States, where we put out our version of what happened, and the Chinese put out their version. [17:34] And oftentimes, the two versions can't be reconciled or are very different. [17:39] Well, right now, we don't even have versions. [17:44] So we're just going to have to wait and see. [17:47] So, you know, as I said, Trump gets credit for coming in and rolling the dice. [17:52] And it's only in the weeks and months ahead are we going to see what, if anything, happened. [18:00] Well, we certainly have a lot to look out for in this wait and see period. [18:03] I always appreciate your insight and expertise, Gordon Chang. [18:06] It's always a pleasure talking with you. [18:08] Hope you can join me again soon. [18:10] I would love that. [18:12] And thank you so much, Brittany, because I appreciate the opportunity to talk to you.