'What kind of decision-making is that?'': Pimentel hits Senate Sgt-at-Arms Aplasca firing first shot

[0:00] Right from there, joining us now to discuss these latest developments at the Senate before it convenes as an impeachment court, former Senator and former Senate President Coco Pimentel. [0:08] Senator, good afternoon to you. Thanks for joining us today. Welcome to the program. [0:13] Carmina, good afternoon. Magandang tanghali po sa lahat. [0:17] I mean, we all saw what happened last week, Senator. [0:20] Yes, yes. [0:20] How would you describe the Senate now after all that happened last week? [0:28] Well, to use our own language, magulo. Lahat nagsasabi magulo. Dapat hindi ganyan ng Senado, dapat hindi magulo. [0:44] What is incumbent upon your former colleagues now? Let's start off with that. [0:48] Well, there should be more discipline in our behavior. There should be more desire to follow the law, the rules. [1:07] So, for example, mayroong communication from the office of the ombudsman. Let us say, it is a sub-PINA. You accept it. You do not not accept it because that's improper, questionable, and provocative behavior. [1:29] So, for then, yung isa, last week, nagkabarilan dyan sa Senado, because I think this is admitted, the sergeant-at-arms admitted that they fired the first shot as a warning shot. [1:44] Do you do that? Common sense? I mean, are they inside the Senate building, the physical premises of the Senate? [1:56] And even if they're inside, do you shoot at people inside? You can confront them, but you do not do that. So, I do not know what is happening. [2:06] And what is incumbent upon the sitting Senate President? I mean, for now, he's still the Senate President, Senator Alan Peter Cayetano. [2:15] We do not know what's going to happen come 3 p.m. today, but what do you think he should do? [2:22] Well, Alan Peter, as I know him, is really a unique individual. So, maybe he really thinks different from us. [2:32] So, I do not know how come he was not able to control the sergeant-at-arms. Ano niya yan? Parang alter ego mo yan ng Senate President. [2:44] Although, elected by the plenary yan. So, the plenary will have to share, if we can call this, the blame for what the sergeant-at-arms did. [2:58] Kasi pwedeng nagkaroon ng ano eh, upon the nomination, pwedeng nagkaroon ng objection because it was Senator Bato himself who nominated, Mao Aplaska, to head the OSA. [3:11] We also didn't hear from the new minority then, didn't object to that. [3:16] Ako, I can understand that, Carmina, because parang give na yan eh. Give. Okay, that's the nominee of the Senate President and the majority. Okay, but you're responsible for your decision. [3:31] So, siguro, come 3 p.m. when they convene again as a body, then I believe some senators will raise this, the judgment, question the judgment of the sergeant-at-arms. [3:46] And therefore, if you question now the judgment with a very specific behavior, which happened last week, then competence comes into question. [3:58] Do you believe that, you know, this is one instance wherein party lines should not exist because this is now talking about the institution which you once served, Senator? [4:10] Yes, yes. At any rate, Carmina, don't worry too much about party lines because there is a very weak party system in the Philippines. [4:20] So, party lines are, number one, almost non-existent. [4:24] And number two, these lines are being crossed every day and many times. [4:29] So, no worry about party lines, but I'm sure, I'm sure, all the 24 senators are concerned about what is happening in the Senate. [4:42] Especially when we, the violence in the Senate jumped all the way now to a shooting incident. [4:53] Noong una ho niyang narinig yun, ano pong naging unang reaksyon ninyo? [4:57] Nagkaroon ng putukan sa loob mismo ng Senado. [4:59] Hindi ako makapaniwala. So, nagtanong muna ako. Ano? Ano? Ano? Ano nangyari? [5:08] So, sabi ko, ano yun, baka blanks? So, totoo pala. I mean, these are really live bullets. [5:17] Do you think that the situation has become untenable and that the only way to sort of bring back a semblance of normalcy [5:25] is for Senator Alan Peter Cayetano to relinquish his post? [5:30] Well, let's leave that matter to the incumbent senators, but I am sure they are discussing this issue [5:43] and I am sure all of them, including Alan Peter as the Senate President, I believe he is really concerned and worried about what is happening [5:57] or what has happened and they're reviewing. Definitely, they're reviewing. [6:02] Ano ba? Ano bang sequence of events which led to all of this? [6:05] Pero kayo po, sino pong pinaniniwalaan niyo? [6:11] I think the facts have been established that the Senate Sergeant at Arms fired the first shot as a warning shot from his point of view. [6:22] But common sense, you do not do that. You do not do that. [6:27] Especially, sinabi na yun, sino kayo? Sumagot, NBI. And then you fire a warning shot? [6:32] Because you heard the three letters, NBI? [6:37] Why? What kind of a decision is that? What kind of decision-making is that? [6:41] Kasi ang pinupunto nila, eh kasi sinabi naman na hindi magpapadala. [6:45] Sinabi naman, stand down. Pagkatapos, nandun. [6:47] So, this is what their narrative is, Senator Cuoco, that they weren't being true to their words. [6:54] Sinabi na ganito, pagkatapos yun pala, nandoon sila after sinabing hindi. [6:58] And this was apparently enough for them to fire that warning shot, Senator. [7:03] Correct. So, mali. So, that should not have been enough for them to fire that warning shot. [7:09] A warning shot is discouraged. [7:11] Number two, the Senate is a lessee in the GSIS complex. [7:15] So, those people, those NBI personnel may have been in the GSIS complex, but were they in the least premises of the Senate? [7:26] At saka, nasa labas, eh. I mean, so, I really question the judgment. [7:34] Meron tayong, sa English, our sergeant at arms might be trigger happy, or sa salita naman natin, utak kapulbura. [7:44] Wag tayong ganyan, kasi ang sergeant at arms, dapat siyang pinaka-cool na person in the Senate because the Senators belong to different political persuasions or different beliefs. [8:03] Sometimes they will clash. [8:04] Therefore, the sergeant at arms will be the one to be asked to enforce or bring back old order on the Senate floor. [8:14] Therefore, he must be a very cool person, relaxed, and then hindi siya nararattle. [8:21] And he will not take sides. [8:23] He will just follow the instruction of the Senate President, plus how he understands the Senate rules. [8:32] So, Senator, I'm sorry to cut you there, but since a while ago you said that the sergeant at arms is sort of the alter ego of the Senate President, [8:44] and you just said a while ago that he should be following whatever it is that the Senate President said, [8:50] do you have now reason to believe that the Senate President, Alan Peter Cayetano, [8:53] knew of the actions of Aplaska even before he did it? [8:57] We can ask the Senate President. [9:01] I believe I've heard the sergeant at arms saying that he informed the Senate President about the presence of some NBI personnel. [9:10] So, lalabas na lang yan sa investigation. [9:15] But, of course, the actor, the one who really pulled the trigger, [9:21] he's an adult person, he's a trained person, he has vast experience in law enforcement or in the uniformed service, [9:32] and yet he still did it. [9:34] So, the responsibility is his. [9:37] Before we go on to the Senate convening as an impeachment court later this afternoon, [9:44] I wanted to get your sense on the characters now, the names that we're seeing in the news. [9:51] First, you have, of course, Senator Batote LaRosa, and then you now have now NBI Director Melvin Matibag. [9:57] I mean, these were the characters that hijacked the PDP laban. [10:00] Yes, but this is an entirely different issue. [10:16] So, okay na po yun. [10:19] I have moved on from the PDP laban issue. [10:23] So, it's time to, siguro, yung mga like-minded individuals to form a new group, a new, if it's not a political party, [10:34] it must be a movement, isabuhay namin yung mga pinaniniwalaan namin. [10:40] So, at any rate, si Melvin Matibag has left that party. [10:48] That's what I was trying to point out. [10:49] That's what I was trying to point out. [10:52] In the end, this is what you get after all of that? [10:56] We left the party. [10:57] Anyway, and anyway, anyway, ipasadyos na lang natin yan. [11:01] I mean, meron din siguro mangyayari, pero, well, this is an entirely different matter. [11:10] Ayaw po haluan ng politika. [11:11] So, let us just be objective about what happened in the Senate. [11:14] And it is worrisome, it is alarming, and I was very saddened with this incident. [11:22] They're going to convene as an impeachment court later this afternoon. [11:25] But to your mind, what should happen first? [11:28] Should they convene as an impeachment court with the current Senate president sitting as the presiding officer? [11:34] Or do you think that things must change first before they convene as an impeachment court? [11:40] Well, as I said earlier, well, choosing their leader, we will leave that to the incumbent senators. [11:51] But what should happen at 3 p.m., the Senate should be convened as a legislative body. [11:57] And then there will be some preliminary matters. [12:00] So, Senate President Cayetano will give his colleagues a chance to change him if they want. [12:09] But if they do not change him, then after some preliminary matters like conferring with the Committee on Rules or the Chairman of the Committee on Rules, [12:18] who is the majority leader, then they should now proceed to now convene the impeachment court. [12:23] Pero don't worry too much about the convening of the impeachment court because nothing much will happen to the court now or today. [12:32] Because there will have to be some, there's a period of time given to the impeach official to file her answer and then for the prosecutor to file the reply. [12:44] So, mga, siguro mga 3 weeks pa po yan. [12:47] 3 weeks of lull. [12:49] No action in the impeachment court. [12:53] When I say action is yung napapanood natin sa pelikula na mayroong witness dyan sa stand and then ini-examine at kino-cross-examine. [13:02] Akala ko action katulad yung napanood natin last week. [13:08] Senator Pimentel, question lang po. [13:11] Pwede ho bang mag-convene as an impeachment court? [13:16] Pagkatapos in between, no? [13:17] With Senate President Alan Peter Cayetano still at the helm. [13:21] And in between, they decide to change things. [13:25] Hindi ba yun matiteknikal that they convened under another leadership? [13:30] Go ahead. [13:30] No, no. [13:32] They just follow the rules. [13:34] Ang sabi ng rules natin and even the Constitution, the Senate President presides over impeachment cases except when it is the President of the Republic of the Philippines who has been impeached. [13:43] So, sundin lang po yun. [13:46] So, sa position tayo nakatingin, whoever is the holder of that position. [13:50] So, ganoon lang po yun. [13:51] So, wala pong problem. [13:53] No problem. [13:54] No problem. [13:54] Kahit na umpisa na yung trial, kahit nag-convene sa umaga, nag-lunch break, by lunchtime, may new decision and a new SP. [14:04] Pag-convene sa hapon, iba na ang mag-reside. [14:07] No problem. [14:08] So, it's process over personality. [14:12] Yeah, because this is a constitution. [14:14] This is a highly regulated constitutional process. [14:17] All right. [14:18] Senator Koko Pimentel there, joining us this noon. [14:20] Thanks again. [14:21] Nice to see you again. [14:22] Thank you. [14:22] Okay, everybody. [14:23] Thank you.