the full first presidential debate between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump

[0:00] Funding for this PBS election special is provided by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting [0:06] and viewers like you. Thank you. [0:08] I know more about ISIS than the generals believe. [0:17] I have sat at that table in the Situation Room. [0:20] Nobody knows the system better than me. I own Kingston. [0:25] I'm going to close my campaign focused on opportunities for kids and fairness for families. [0:30] Hillary failed on the economy. Everything she touched didn't work out. Nothing. [0:35] Even if you're totally opposed to Donald Trump, you may still have some questions about me. [0:40] JUDY WOODRUFF, Good evening. I'm Judy Woodruff. [0:55] And I'm Gwen Ifill. Welcome to this PBS NewsHour special coverage [0:59] of the first debate between the two major party presidential candidates, Hillary Clinton and [1:04] Donald Trump. The stage is set at Hofstra University on Long Island, New York. With the election 43 days [1:11] away and the race tightening, a lot is on the line tonight, Judy. [1:14] JUDY WOODRUFF, It certainly is, Gwen. And given that this is the first time [1:17] these two have faced each other one-on-one, Lester Holt of NBC News will be moderating. [1:24] Joining us at the table are our regular contributors, syndicated columnist Mark Shields, [1:29] New York Times columnist David Brooks, and from The Cook Political Report, Amy Walter. [1:34] We welcome all of you here for the next two hours. Amy, let's start with you. What are you looking for? [1:39] AMY WALTER, The Cook Political Report, The Cook Political Report, The Cook Political Report, [1:39] Each of these candidates has an enthusiasm gap problem within their own party. So, [1:43] they have got to get their partisans fired up. For Hillary Clinton, it's young people. [1:46] For Donald Trump, he's got to get those white college-educated voters back into the Republican [1:50] fold where they have been. And then they got to get those voters, both of them, who are torn, [1:54] don't like either choice they have in front of them, to pick them. [1:57] JUDY WOODRUFF, Mark Shields, what would you surprise you the most of what these [2:01] candidates might or might not do tonight? [2:02] DAVID BROOKS, The Cook Political Report, The Cook Political Report, The Cook Political Report, [2:09] and can Hillary Clinton, who is a marvelous and superior deliverer of information, [2:14] make an emotional connection with American voters? [2:17] JUDY WOODRUFF, David, what are you on the edge of your seat looking for? [2:19] DAVID BROOKS, The Cook Political Report, The Cook Political Report, The Cook Political Report, The Cook Political Report, [2:20] We have been around each other too long. I wrote an emotional connection. [2:22] DAVID BROOKS, The Cook Political Report, The Cook Political Report, The Cook Political Report, [2:24] This is not a cognitive night. This is not philosophy. This is not grand strategy. It's that moment of intimacy, [2:29] that unscripted moment when the unconscious is revealed that will be replayed on YouTube [2:34] over and over and over again. And so it's just, is he commanding or is he cruel? [2:39] Does she is she relatable and does she seem calmly smart? And it's whether people get that vibe, [2:45] the first aid vibe, that will determine the night. [2:47] JUDY WOODRUFF, The Cook Political Report, The Cook Political Report, The Cook Political Report, The Cook Political Report [2:47] Is this about what they know or who they are? [2:49] DAVID BROOKS, The Cook Political Report, The Cook Political Report, The Cook Political Report? [2:50] Oh, I think it's mostly about who they are. I mean, for voters at this stage of the game, [2:55] they are looking up on that dais to see who they can spend the next four years with, [2:59] with, who they want to invite into their homes, moment after moment. [3:03] Many voters say, I don't want either one of them in there, but a lot of voters are saying [3:07] that. [3:08] But this is the one maybe that they're not going to like, but they will feel comfortable [3:10] enough. [3:11] JUDY WOODRUFF, Mark, people are going to be fact-checking this debate. [3:15] They're going to be raising questions about whether what either one of them said was correct [3:20] or not. [3:21] MARK SHIELDS, The President of the United States, The President of the United States, [3:22] No, you're right, Judy. [3:23] And what they know, it will be a short evening for the Republican nominee, whose knowledge [3:28] bank has been overdrawn. [3:31] And I think it's about, more than anything else, each case. [3:35] What does he know? [3:36] Is he's command of it? [3:37] Is he comfortable with it? [3:39] And who she is? [3:40] And I think that's really the question. [3:42] JEFFREY BROWN, And there's a gender politics. [3:44] REP. [3:45] ф CREVevaçu//OK referred to as nichts about. [3:46] Lester Holt of NBC News. [3:47] infrastructures last night, and this debate is sponsored by the Commission on Presidential [3:49] Debates, a nonpartisan, nonprofit organization. [3:53] The commission drafted tonight's format. [3:55] And the rules have been agreed to by the campaigns. [3:58] The 90-minute debate is divided into six segments, each 50 minutes long. [4:03] We'll explore three topic areas tonight, [4:06] achieving prosperity, America's direction, and securing America. [4:11] At the start of each segment, I will ask the same lead-off question to both candidates, [4:16] and they will each have up to two minutes to respond. [4:18] From that point until the end of the segment, we'll have an open discussion. [4:23] The questions are mine and have not been shared with the commission or the campaigns. [4:27] The audience here in the room has agreed to remain silent [4:30] so that we can focus on what the candidates are saying. [4:33] I will invite you to applaud, however, at this moment, as we welcome the candidates. [4:38] Democratic nominee for President of the United States, Hillary Clinton, [4:42] and Republican nominee for President of the United States, Donald J. Trump. [4:46] Good luck to you. [5:02] Thank you. [5:03] Well, I don't expect us to cover all the issues of this campaign tonight, [5:17] but I remind everyone there are two more presidential debates scheduled. [5:21] We are going to focus on many of the issues that voters tell us are most important, [5:25] and we're going to press for specifics. [5:27] I am honored to have this role, but this evening belongs to the candidates [5:30] and just as important to the American people. [5:33] Candidates, we look forward to hearing you articulate your policies and your positions, [5:37] as well as your visions and your values. [5:40] So, let's begin. [5:42] We're calling this opening segment Achieving Prosperity, and central to that is jobs. [5:49] There are two economic realities in America today. [5:51] There's been a record six straight years of job growth, [5:54] and new census numbers show incomes have increased at a record rate after years of stagnation. [6:00] However, income inequality remains significant, [6:03] and nearly half of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. [6:07] Beginning with you, Secretary Clinton, [6:09] why are you a better choice than your opponent to create the kinds of jobs [6:13] that will put more money into the pockets of American workers? [6:17] Well, thank you, Lester, and thanks to Hofstra for hosting us. [6:22] The central question in this election is really what kind of country we want to be [6:27] and what kind of future we'll build together. [6:30] Today is my granddaughter's second birthday, so I think about this a lot. [6:35] First, we have to build an economy that works for everyone, not just those at the top. [6:39] That means we need new jobs, good jobs, with rising incomes. [6:44] I want us to invest in you. [6:46] I want us to invest in your future. [6:48] That means jobs in infrastructure, in advanced manufacturing, [6:52] in innovation and technology, clean, renewable energy, and small business, [6:57] because most of the new jobs will come from small business. [7:01] We also have to make the economy fairer. [7:03] That starts with raising the national minimum wage [7:06] and also guarantee, finally, equal pay for women's work. [7:12] I also want to see more companies do profit sharing. [7:15] If you help create the profits, you should be able to share in them, [7:19] not just the executives at the top. [7:21] And I want us to do more to support people who are struggling to balance family and work. [7:28] I've heard from so many of you about the difficult choices you face [7:32] and the stresses that you're under. [7:35] So let's have paid family leave, earn sick days. [7:38] Let's be sure we have affordable child care and debt-free college. [7:42] How are we going to do it? [7:43] We're going to do it by having the wealthy pay their fair share [7:46] and close the corporate loopholes. [7:49] Finally, we tonight are on the stage together, Donald Trump and I. [7:54] Donald, it's good to be with you. [7:57] We're going to have a debate where we are talking about [8:02] the important issues facing our country. [8:05] You have to judge us. [8:06] Who can shoulder the immense, awesome responsibilities of the presidency? [8:11] Who can put into action the plans that will make your life better? [8:15] I hope that I will be able to earn your vote on November 8th. [8:20] Secretary Clinton, thank you. [8:21] Mr. Trump, the same question to you. [8:23] It's about putting money, more money, into the pockets of American workers. [8:26] You have up to two minutes. [8:27] Thank you, Lester. [8:28] Our jobs are fleeing the country. [8:32] They're going to Mexico. [8:33] They're going to many other countries. [8:35] You look at what China is doing to our country in terms of making our product. [8:39] They're devaluing their currency, and there's nobody in our government to fight them. [8:44] And we have a very good fight, and we have a winning fight, [8:47] because they're using our country as a piggy bank to rebuild China. [8:52] And many other countries are doing the same thing. [8:54] So we're losing our good jobs, so many of them. [8:57] When you look at what's happening in Mexico, a friend of mine who builds plants said it's the eighth wonder of the world. [9:03] They're building some of the biggest plants anywhere in the world, some of the most sophisticated, some of the best plants. [9:09] With the United States, as he said, not so much. [9:13] So Ford is leaving. [9:15] You see that, their small car division, leaving. [9:18] Thousands of jobs. [9:19] Leaving Michigan. [9:20] Leaving Ohio. [9:22] They're all leaving. [9:23] And we can't allow it to happen anymore. [9:25] As far as child care is concerned and so many other things, I think Hillary and I agree on that. [9:30] We probably disagree a little bit as to numbers and amounts and what we're going to do, [9:36] but perhaps we'll be talking about that later. [9:38] But we have to stop our jobs from being stolen from us. [9:43] We have to stop our companies from leaving the United States and, with it, firing all of their people. [9:51] All you have to do is take a look at carrier air conditioning in Indianapolis. [9:56] They left, fired 1,400 people. [9:58] They're going to Mexico. [9:59] So many hundreds and hundreds of companies are doing this. [10:03] We cannot let it happen. [10:05] Under my plan, I'll be reducing taxes tremendously, from 35 percent to 15 percent for companies, small and big businesses. [10:14] That's going to be a job creator like we haven't seen since Ronald Reagan. [10:19] It's going to be a beautiful thing to watch. [10:22] Companies will come. [10:23] They will build. [10:24] They will expand. [10:25] New companies will start. [10:27] And I look very, very much forward to doing it. [10:29] We have to renegotiate our trade deals, and we have to stop these countries from stealing our companies and our jobs. [10:37] Secretary Clinton, would you like to respond? [10:38] Well, I think that trade is an important issue. [10:41] Of course, we are 5 percent of the world's population. [10:44] We have to trade with the other 95 percent, and we need to have smart, fair trade deals. [10:50] We also, though, need to have a tax system that rewards work and not just financial transactions. [10:57] And the kind of plan that Donald has put forth would be trickle-down economics all over again. [11:02] In fact, it would be the most extreme version, the biggest tax cuts for the top percent of the people in this country than we've ever had. [11:11] I call it trumped-up trickle-down, because that's exactly what it would be. [11:16] That is not how we grow the economy. [11:19] We just have a different view about what's best for growing the economy, how we make investments that will actually produce jobs and rising incomes. [11:28] I think we come at it from somewhat different perspectives. [11:32] I understand that. [11:34] You know, Donald was very fortunate in his life, and that's all to his benefit. [11:39] He started his business with $14 million, borrowed from his father. [11:44] And he really believes that the more you help wealthy people, the better off we'll be, and that everything will work out from there. [11:51] I don't buy that. [11:52] I have a different experience. [11:54] My father was a small businessman. [11:55] He worked really hard. [11:57] He printed drapery fabrics on long tables where he pulled out those fabrics, and he went down with a silk screen and dumped the paint in and took the squeegee and kept going. [12:07] And so what I believe is the more we can do for the middle class, the more we can invest in you, your education, your skills, your future, the better we will be off and the better we'll grow. [12:19] That's the kind of economy I want us to see again. [12:21] Let me follow up with Mr. Trump, if I can. [12:23] You've talked about creating 25 million jobs, and you've promised to bring back millions of jobs for Americans. [12:29] How are you going to bring back the industries that have left this country for cheaper labor overseas? [12:34] How specifically are you going to tell American manufacturers that you have to come back? [12:39] Well, for one thing, and before we start on that, my father gave me a very small loan in 1975, and I built it into a company that's worth many, many billions of dollars with some of the greatest assets in the world. [12:51] And I say that only because that's the kind of thinking that our country needs. [12:54] Our country's in deep trouble. [12:56] We don't know what we're doing when it comes to devaluations. [12:59] And all of these countries all over the world, especially China, they're the best, the best ever at it. [13:04] What they're doing to us is a very, very sad thing. [13:08] So we have to do that. [13:10] We have to renegotiate our trade deals. [13:12] Unless they're taking our jobs, they're giving incentives, they're doing things that, frankly, we don't do. [13:17] Let me give you the example of Mexico. [13:19] They have a VAT tax. [13:20] We're in a different system. [13:22] When we sell into Mexico, there's a tax. [13:26] When they sell in automatic, 16 percent approximately. [13:29] When they sell in to us, there's no tax. [13:32] It's a defective agreement. [13:34] It's been defective for a long time, many years. [13:36] But the politicians haven't done anything about it. [13:38] Now, in all fairness to Secretary Clinton, yes, is that okay? [13:44] Good. [13:45] I want you to be very happy. [13:46] It's very important to me. [13:48] But in all fairness to Secretary Clinton, when she started talking about this, it was really very recently. [13:54] She's been doing this for 30 years. [13:56] And why hasn't she made the agreements better? [13:59] The NAFTA agreement is defective just because of the tax and many other reasons, but just because of the Fed. [14:04] Let me interrupt just a moment. [14:05] Secretary Clinton and others, politicians, should have been doing this for years. [14:10] Not right now, because of the fact that we've created a movement. [14:13] They should have been doing this for years. [14:16] What's happened to our jobs and our country and our economy generally is, look, we owe $20 trillion. [14:24] We cannot do it any longer last year. [14:27] Back to the question, though, how do you bring back, specifically bring back jobs? [14:31] American manufacturers, how do you make them bring the jobs back? [14:34] Well, the first thing you do is don't let the jobs leave. [14:37] The companies are leaving. [14:38] I could name, I mean, there are thousands of them. [14:40] They're leaving. [14:41] And they're leaving in bigger numbers than ever. [14:43] And what you do is you say, fine, you want to go to Mexico or some other country, good luck. [14:48] We wish you a lot of luck. [14:49] But if you think you're going to make your air conditioners or your cars or your cookies or whatever you make [14:54] and bring them into our country without a tax, you're wrong. [14:58] And once you say you're going to have to tax them coming in, and our politicians never do this, [15:03] because they have special interests and the special interests want those companies to leave, [15:08] because in many cases they own the companies. [15:09] So what I'm saying is we can stop them from leaving. [15:14] We have to stop them from leaving. [15:16] And that's a big, big factor. [15:18] Let me let Secretary Clinton get there. [15:19] Well, let's stop for a second. [15:21] And remember where we were eight years ago. [15:24] We had the worst financial crisis, the Great Recession, the worst since the 1930s. [15:30] That was in large part because of tax policies that slashed taxes on the wealthy, [15:37] failed to invest in the middle class, [15:39] took their eyes off of Wall Street and created a perfect storm. [15:45] In fact, Donald was one of the people who rooted for the housing crisis. [15:50] He said back in 2006, [15:52] gee, I hope it does collapse because then I can go in and buy some and make some money. [15:57] Well, it did collapse. [15:58] That's called business, by the way. [15:59] 9 million people, 9 million people lost their jobs, 5 million people lost their homes and $13 trillion in family wealth was wiped out. [16:09] Now, we have come back from that abyss, and it has not been easy. [16:15] So we're now on the precipice of having a potentially much better economy. [16:21] But the last thing we need to do is to go back to the policies that failed us in the first place. [16:27] Independent experts have looked at what I've proposed and looked at what Donald's proposed, [16:33] and basically they've said this, that if his tax plan, which would blow up the debt by over $5 trillion, [16:41] and would, in some instances, disadvantaged middle-class families compared to the wealthy, [16:47] were to go into effect, we would lose 3.5 million jobs and maybe have another recession. [16:55] They've looked at my plans, and they've said, [16:58] OK, if we can do this, and I intend to get it done, we will have 10 million more new jobs, [17:04] because we will be making investments where we can grow the economy. [17:08] Take clean energy. Some country is going to be the clean energy superpower of the 21st century. [17:15] Donald thinks that climate change is a hoax perpetrated by the Chinese. [17:20] I think it's real. [17:20] I did not. I do not. [17:21] Science is real. [17:22] I do not say that. [17:23] And I think it's important that we grip this and deal with it, both at home and abroad. [17:29] And here's what we can do. We can deploy a half a billion more solar panels. [17:33] We can have enough clean energy to power every home. [17:36] We can build a new modern electric grid. [17:39] That's a lot of jobs. That's a lot of new economic activity. [17:42] So I've tried to be very specific about what we can and should do, [17:47] and I am determined that we're going to get the economy really moving again, [17:53] building on the progress we've made over the last eight years, [17:55] but never going back to what got us in trouble in the first place. [17:58] Mr. Trump. [17:59] She talks about solar panels. [18:01] We invested in a solar company, our country. That was a disaster. [18:05] They lost plenty of money on that one. [18:07] Now, look, I'm a great believer in all forms of energy, [18:11] but we're putting a lot of people out of work. [18:13] Our energy policies are a disaster. [18:15] Our country is losing so much in terms of energy, [18:19] in terms of paying off our debt. [18:21] You can't do what you're looking to do with $20 trillion in debt. [18:25] The Obama administration, from the time they've come in, [18:28] is over 230 years worth of debt, and he's topped it. [18:33] He's doubled it in a course of almost eight years, [18:36] seven and a half years to be semi-exact. [18:39] So I will tell you this. [18:41] We have to do a much better job at keeping our jobs, [18:46] and we have to do a much better job at giving companies incentive [18:50] to build new companies or to expand, because they're not doing it. [18:54] And all you have to do is look at Michigan and look at Ohio [18:57] and look at all of these places where so many of their jobs [19:03] and their companies are just leaving. They're gone. [19:06] And, Hillary, I just ask you this. [19:07] Because you've been doing this for 30 years. [19:11] Why are you just thinking about these solutions right now? [19:14] For 30 years you've been doing it, [19:16] and now you're just starting to think of solutions. [19:18] Well, actually... [19:18] I will bring... Excuse me. [19:20] I will bring back jobs. You can't bring back jobs. [19:23] Well, actually, I have thought about this quite a bit. [19:26] Yeah, for 30 years. [19:27] I have... Well, not quite that long. [19:31] I think my husband did a pretty good job in the 1990s. [19:34] I think a lot about what worked and how we can make it work again. [19:37] Well, he approved NAFTA. [19:38] Three million new jobs. [19:39] He approved NAFTA. [19:39] He approved NAFTA. [19:40] A balanced budget. [19:40] Which is the single worst trade deal ever approved in this country. [19:43] Incomes went up for everybody. [19:45] Manufacturing jobs went up also in the 1990s, [19:47] if we're actually going to look at the facts. [19:50] When I was in the Senate, [19:51] I had a number of trade deals that came before me, [19:54] and I held them all to the same test. [19:57] Will they create jobs in America? [19:59] Will they raise incomes in America? [20:00] And are they good for our national security? [20:04] Some of them I voted for. [20:05] The biggest one, a multinational one known as CAFTA, [20:08] I voted against. [20:10] And because I hold the same standards [20:13] as I look at all of these trade deals. [20:15] But let's not assume that trade is the only challenge we have in the economy. [20:22] I think it is a part of it, [20:24] and I've said what I'm going to do. [20:25] I'm going to have a special prosecutor. [20:26] We're going to enforce the trade deals we have, [20:29] and we're going to hold people accountable. [20:31] When I was Secretary of State, [20:33] we actually increased American exports globally 30%. [20:37] We increased them to China 50%. [20:41] So I know how to really work to get new jobs [20:45] and to get exports that help to create more new jobs. [20:49] Eric, well, you haven't done it in 30 years or 26 years. [20:52] Well, I've been a senator, Donald. [20:53] You haven't done it. [20:54] And I have been a secretary of state. [20:56] And I have done a lot. [20:57] Your husband signed NAFTA, [20:59] which was one of the worst things that ever happened [21:01] to the manufacturing industry. [21:03] That is your opinion. [21:03] You go to New England, you go to Ohio, Pennsylvania, [21:06] you go anywhere you want, Secretary Clinton, [21:09] and you will see devastation [21:10] where manufacturers down 30%, 40%, sometimes 50%. [21:14] NAFTA is the worst trade deal maybe ever signed anywhere, [21:18] but certainly ever signed in this country. [21:20] And now you want to approve Trans-Pacific Partnership. [21:23] You were totally in favor of it. [21:25] Then you heard what I was saying, how bad it is. [21:27] And you said, I can't win that debate. [21:28] But you know that if you did win, you would approve that. [21:32] And that will be almost as bad as NAFTA. [21:34] Nothing will ever top NAFTA. [21:35] That is just not accurate. [21:38] I was against it once it was finally negotiated [21:42] and the terms were laid out. [21:45] I wrote about that in... [21:46] You called it the gold standard. [21:48] Well, I hope... [21:48] You called it the gold standard of trade deals. [21:51] You said it's the finest deal you've ever seen. [21:53] No. [21:53] And then you heard what I said about it, [21:55] and all of a sudden you were against it. [21:56] Well, Donald, I know you live in your own reality, [21:59] but that is not the facts. [22:01] The facts are, I did say, I hoped it would be a good deal, [22:05] but when it was negotiated, which I was not responsible for, [22:08] I concluded it wasn't. [22:10] I wrote about that in my book... [22:11] So is it President Obama's fault? [22:12] Before you even announced... [22:15] Look, there are different... [22:16] Secretary, is it President Obama's fault? [22:18] There are different... [22:19] Because he's pushing it. [22:20] There are different views about what's good for our country, [22:24] our economy, and our leadership in the world. [22:26] And I think it's important to look at what we need to do [22:30] to get the economy going again. [22:32] That's why I said, new jobs with rising incomes, [22:35] investments, not in more tax cuts [22:37] that would add $5 trillion to the debt... [22:40] But you have no plan. [22:41] Educate... Oh, I do. [22:42] Secretary, you have no plan. [22:45] In fact, I have written a book about it. [22:46] It's called Stronger Together. [22:47] You can pick it up tomorrow... [22:48] That's about all you folks. [22:48] ...at the bookstore or at an airport near you. [22:51] We're going to move to... [22:52] But it's because I see this, we need to have strong growth, [22:56] fair growth, sustained growth. [22:58] We also have to look at how we help families balance [23:02] the responsibilities at home [23:04] and the responsibilities at business. [23:06] So we have a very robust set of plans, [23:10] and people who have looked at both of our plans [23:12] have concluded that mine would create 10 million jobs [23:16] and yours would lose us 3.5 million jobs [23:19] and explode the debt... [23:20] You are going to approve one of the biggest tax cuts in history. [23:24] You are going to approve one of the biggest tax increases in history. [23:28] You are going to drive business out. [23:30] Your regulations are a disaster, [23:33] and you're going to increase regulations all over the place. [23:35] And, by the way, my tax cut is the biggest since Ronald Reagan. [23:39] I'm very proud of it. [23:40] It will create tremendous numbers of new jobs. [23:43] But regulations, you are going to regulate these businesses out of existence. [23:47] When I go around, Lester, I tell you this, I've been all over. [23:51] And when I go around, despite the tax cut, [23:54] the things that business as in people like the most, [23:58] is the fact that I'm cutting regulation. [24:01] You have regulations on top of regulations, [24:04] and new companies cannot form, [24:06] and old companies are going out of business, [24:08] and you want to increase the regulations and make them even worse. [24:11] Because I'm going to cut regulations. [24:13] But I'm going to cut taxes, big league, [24:16] and you're going to raise taxes, big league. [24:19] End of story. [24:20] Let me get you to pause right there, [24:21] because we're going to move into the next segment. [24:23] We're going to talk taxes. [24:24] That can't be left to stand. [24:25] Please just take 30 seconds. [24:26] I kind of assumed that there would be a lot of these charges and claims. [24:32] And so... [24:32] Facts. [24:32] We have taken the homepage of my website, HillaryClinton.com, [24:37] and we've turned it into a fact-checker. [24:40] So if you want to see in real time what the facts are, [24:44] please go and take a look. [24:45] Because what I have proposed would not add a penny to the debt, [24:50] and your plans would add $5 trillion to the debt. [24:54] What I have proposed would cut regulations [24:56] and streamline them for small businesses. [25:00] What I have proposed would be paid for [25:03] by raising taxes on the wealthy, [25:06] because they have made all the gains in the economy. [25:11] And I think it's time that the wealthy and corporations [25:13] paid their fair share to support this country. [25:15] Well, you just opened the next segment. [25:17] Well, look, can I just finish? [25:18] Actually, I think I should... [25:19] You go to her website, and you take a look at her website. [25:23] She's going to raise taxes $1.3 trillion. [25:26] Mr. Trump, I'm going to... [25:26] And look at her website. [25:28] You know what? [25:29] It's no different than this. [25:30] She's telling us how to fight ISIS. [25:32] Just go to her website. [25:33] She tells you how to fight ISIS on her website. [25:35] I don't think General Douglas MacArthur would like that too much. [25:38] The next segment, we're continuing the subject of... [25:41] Well, at least I have a plan to fight ISIS. [25:43] No, no. [25:44] You're telling the enemy everything you want to do. [25:46] No, we're not. [25:47] See, you're telling the enemy everything you want to do. [25:49] No wonder you've been fighting... [25:51] No wonder you've been fighting ISIS your entire adult life. [25:56] Folks, let me... [25:57] That's a... [25:57] That's... [25:57] Go to the... [25:58] Please, the fact-checkers. [25:59] Get to work. [25:59] Folks, you are unpacking a lot here, and we're still on the issue of achieving prosperity. [26:04] And I want to talk about taxes. [26:06] The fundamental difference between the two of you concerns the wealthy. [26:09] Secretary Clinton, you're calling for a tax increase in the wealthiest Americans. [26:13] I'd like you to further defend that. [26:15] And, Mr. Trump, you're calling for tax cuts for the wealthy. [26:17] I'd like you to defend that. [26:19] And this next two-minute answer goes to you, Mr. Trump. [26:21] Well, I'm really calling for major jobs, because the wealthy are going to create tremendous jobs. [26:27] They're going to expand their companies. [26:28] They're going to do a tremendous job. [26:30] I'm getting rid of the carried interest provision. [26:33] And if you really look, it's not a tax... [26:35] It's really not a great thing for the wealthy. [26:37] It's a great thing for middle class. [26:39] It's a great thing for companies to expand. [26:41] And when these people are going to put billions and billions of dollars into companies, [26:45] and when they're going to bring $2.5 trillion back from overseas, [26:50] where they can't bring the money back, [26:51] because politicians like Secretary Clinton won't allow them to bring the money back [26:56] because the taxes are so onerous and the bureaucratic red tape is so bad. [27:01] So what they're doing is they're leaving our country. [27:03] And they're, believe it or not, leaving because taxes are too high [27:07] and because some of them have lots of money outside of our country. [27:11] And instead of bringing it back and putting the money to work [27:13] because they can't work out a deal to... [27:15] And everybody agrees it should be brought back. [27:17] Instead of that, they're leaving our country to get their money [27:21] because they can't bring their money back into our country [27:24] because of bureaucratic red tape, because they can't get together. [27:28] Because we have a president that can't sit them around a table [27:32] and get them to approve something. [27:34] And here's the thing. [27:35] Republicans and Democrats agree that this should be done. [27:38] Two and a half trillion. I happen to think it's double that. [27:41] It's probably $5 trillion that we can't bring into our country, Lester. [27:46] And with a little leadership, you'd get it in here very quickly. [27:50] And it could be put to use on the inner cities and lots of other things. [27:53] And it would be beautiful. [27:55] But we have no leadership. [27:57] And honestly, that starts with Secretary Clinton. [28:00] All right. You have two minutes on the same question [28:02] to defend tax increases on the wealthiest Americans, Secretary Clinton. [28:06] I have a feeling that by the end of this evening, I'm going to be blamed for everything that's ever happened. [28:10] Why not? [28:11] Why not? Yeah. Why not? [28:13] You know, just join the debate by saying more crazy things. [28:19] Now, let me say this. [28:20] There's nothing crazy about not letting our companies bring their money back into their country. [28:26] This is Secretary Clinton's two minutes, please. [28:28] Yeah, well, let's start the clock again, Lester. [28:31] We've looked at your tax proposals. [28:35] I don't see changes in the corporate tax rates or the kinds of proposals you're referring to [28:42] that would cause the repatriation, bringing back of money that's stranded overseas. [28:47] I happen to support that. [28:49] I happen to support that in a way that will actually work to our benefit. [28:55] But when I look at what you have proposed, you have what is called now the Trump loophole, [29:02] because it would so advantage you and the business you do. [29:06] You've proposed an approach that has a $4 billion tax benefit for your family. [29:14] And when you look at what you are proposing, it is, as I said, trumped up, trickle down. [29:21] Trickle down did not work. [29:24] It got us into the mess we were in in 2008 and 2009. [29:29] Slashing taxes on the wealthy hasn't worked. [29:32] And a lot of really smart, wealthy people know that. [29:35] And they are saying, hey, we need to do more to make the contributions we should be making [29:41] to rebuild the middle class. [29:43] I don't think top-down works in America. [29:46] I think building the middle class, investing in the middle class, making college debt-free [29:51] so more young people can get their education, helping people refinance their debt from college [29:58] at a lower rate, those are the kinds of things that will really boost the economy. [30:03] Broad-based, inclusive growth is what we need in America, not more advantages for people [30:10] at the very top. [30:10] Mr. Trump, typical politician, all talk, no action, sounds good, doesn't work, never [30:19] going to happen. [30:21] Our country is suffering because people like Secretary Clinton have made such bad decisions [30:27] in terms of our jobs and in terms of what's going on. [30:30] Now, look, we have the worst revival of an economy since the Great Depression. [30:37] And believe me, we're in a bubble right now. [30:39] And the only thing that looks good is the stock market. [30:42] But if you raise interest rates even a little bit, that's going to come crashing down. [30:46] We are in a big, fat, ugly bubble. [30:48] And we better be awfully careful. [30:51] And we have a Fed that's doing political things. [30:54] This Janet Yellen of the Fed. [30:56] The Fed is doing political by keeping the interest rates at this level. [31:00] And believe me, the day Obama goes off and he leaves and he goes out to the golf course [31:05] for the rest of his life to play golf, when they raise interest rates, you're going to [31:09] see some very bad things happen. [31:11] Because the Fed is not doing their job. [31:13] The Fed is being more political than Secretary Clinton. [31:17] Mr. Trump, we're talking about the burden that Americans have to pay, yet you have not [31:22] released your tax returns. [31:23] And the reason nominees have released their returns for decades is that voters will know [31:28] if their potential president owes money to, who he owes it to, and any business conflicts. [31:35] Don't Americans have a right to know if there are any conflicts of interest? [31:38] I don't mind releasing. [31:39] I'm under a routine audit, and it'll be released. [31:42] And as soon as the audit's finished, it'll be released. [31:44] But you will learn more about Donald Trump by going down to the federal elections, where [31:50] I filed a 104-page, essentially financial statement of sorts, the forms that they have. [31:57] It shows income. [31:58] In fact, the income—I just looked today. [32:01] The income is filed at $694 million for this past year. [32:07] $694 million. [32:07] If you would have told me I was going to make that 15 or 20 years ago, I would have been [32:11] very surprised. [32:12] But that's the kind of thinking that our country needs. [32:14] When we have a country that's doing so badly, that's being ripped off by every single country [32:20] in the world, it's the kind of thinking that our country needs, because everybody—Lester, [32:27] we have a trade deficit with all of the countries that we do business with of almost $800 billion a year. [32:35] You know what that is? [32:36] That means who's negotiating these trade deals? [32:39] We have people that are political hacks negotiating our trade deals. [32:43] The IRS says an audit of your taxes—you're perfectly free to release your taxes during [32:49] an audit. [32:50] And so the question, does the public's right to know outweigh your personal— [32:54] Well, I told you, I will release them as soon as the audit. [32:56] Look, I've been under audit almost for 15 years. [33:00] I know a lot of wealthy people that have never been audited. [33:03] I said, do you get audited? [33:04] I get audited almost every year. [33:06] And in a way, I should be complaining. [33:08] I'm not even complaining. [33:09] I don't mind it. [33:09] It's almost become a way of life. [33:11] I get audited by the IRS. [33:13] But other people don't. [33:14] I will say this. [33:15] We have a situation in this country that has to be taken care of. [33:21] I will release my tax returns against my lawyer's wishes when she releases her 33,000 emails [33:29] that have been deleted. [33:30] As soon as she releases them, I will release—I will release my tax returns. [33:37] And that's against my lawyers. [33:39] They say, don't do it. [33:40] I will tell you this. [33:41] No—in fact, watching shows, reading the papers, almost every lawyer says, you don't [33:47] release your returns until the audit's complete. [33:49] When the audit's complete, I'll do it. [33:51] But I would go against them if she releases her email. [33:54] So it's negotiable? [33:56] It's not negotiable. [33:57] No, let her release the email. [33:58] Why did she delete 33,000 emails? [34:00] Well, I'll let her ask that. [34:01] But let me just admonish the audience one more time. [34:03] There was an agreement. [34:04] We did ask you to be silent. [34:05] So it would be helpful for us. [34:07] Secretary Clinton. [34:07] Well, I think you've just seen another example of bait-and-switch here. [34:13] For 40 years, everyone running for president has released their tax returns. [34:18] You can go and see nearly, I think, 39, 40 years of our tax returns. [34:22] But everyone has done it. [34:23] We know the IRS has made clear there is no prohibition on releasing it when you're under audit. [34:29] So you've got to ask yourself, why won't he release his tax returns? [34:34] And I think there may be a couple of reasons. [34:37] First, maybe he's not as rich as he says he is. [34:41] Second, maybe he's not as charitable as he claims to be. [34:44] Third, we don't know all of his business dealings, but we have been told through investigative reporting that he owes about $650 million to Wall Street and foreign banks. [34:58] Or maybe he doesn't want the American people, all of you watching tonight, to know that he's paid nothing in federal taxes. [35:06] Because the only years that anybody's ever seen were a couple of years when he had to turn them over to state authorities when he was trying to get a casino license. [35:15] And they showed he didn't pay any federal income tax. [35:19] So if he's paid zero, that means zero for troops, zero for vets, zero for schools or health. [35:27] And I think probably he's not all that enthusiastic about having the rest of our country see what the real reasons are. [35:37] Because it must be something really important, even terrible, that he's trying to hide. [35:42] And the financial disclosure statement, they don't give you the tax rate. [35:46] They don't give you all the details that tax returns would. [35:50] And it just seems to me that this is something that the American people deserve to see. [35:56] And I have no reason to believe that he's ever going to release his tax returns, because there's something he's hiding. [36:04] And we'll guess. [36:05] We'll keep guessing at what it might be that he's hiding. [36:08] But I think the question is, were he ever to get near the White House, what would be those conflicts? [36:16] Who does he owe money to? [36:18] Well, he owes you the answers to that, and he should provide them. [36:23] He also raised the issue of your e-mails. [36:25] Do you want to respond to that? [36:27] I do. [36:27] You know, I made a mistake using a private e-mail. [36:31] That's for sure. [36:32] And if I had to do it over again, I would obviously do it differently. [36:37] But I'm not going to make any excuses. [36:39] It was a mistake. [36:40] And I take responsibility for that. [36:42] Mr. Trump? [36:44] That was more than a mistake. [36:46] That was done purposely. [36:48] OK, that was not a mistake. [36:49] That was done purposely. [36:51] When you have your staff taking the Fifth Amendment, taking the Fifth so they're not prosecuted, [36:58] when you have the man that set up the illegal server taking the Fifth, I think it's disgraceful. [37:04] And believe me, this country thinks it's disgraceful. [37:07] It really thinks it's disgraceful also. [37:09] As far as my tax returns, you don't learn that much from tax returns, that I can tell you. [37:14] You learn a lot from financial disclosure. [37:16] And you should go down and take a look at that. [37:19] The other thing, I'm extremely underleveraged. [37:22] The report that said 650, which, by the way, a lot of friends of mine that know my business said, [37:28] boy, that's really not a lot of money. [37:29] It's not a lot of money relative to what I had. [37:31] The buildings that were in question, they said in the same report, which was actually wasn't even a bad story, to be honest with you. [37:38] But the buildings are worth $3.9 billion. [37:41] And the 650 isn't even on that. [37:43] But it's not 650. [37:45] It's much less than that. [37:46] But I could give you a list of banks. [37:48] I would—if that would help you, I would give you a list of banks. [37:50] These are very fine institutions, very fine banks. [37:53] I could do that very quickly. [37:54] I am very underleveraged. [37:56] I have a great company. [37:57] I have a tremendous income. [37:58] And the reason I say that is not in a braggadocious way. [38:02] It's because it's about time that this country had somebody running it that has an idea about money. [38:09] When we have $20 trillion in debt and our country's a mess, you know, it's one thing to have $20 trillion in debt and our roads are good and our bridges are good and everything's in great shape. [38:19] Our airports—our airports are like from a third-world country. [38:23] You land at LaGuardia. [38:25] You land at Kennedy. [38:26] You land at LAX. [38:27] You land at Newark. [38:28] And you come in from Dubai and Qatar. [38:31] And you see these incredible—you come in from China. [38:33] You see these incredible airports. [38:35] And you land—we've become a third-world country. [38:38] So, the worst of all things has happened. [38:41] We owe $20 trillion, and we're a mess. [38:45] We haven't even started. [38:46] And we've spent $6 trillion in the Middle East, according to a report that I just saw. [38:52] Whether it's six or five, but it looks like it's six. [38:55] $6 trillion in the Middle East. [38:58] We could have rebuilt our country twice. [39:00] And it's really a shame. [39:01] And it's politicians like Secretary Clinton that have caused this problem. [39:06] Our country has tremendous problems. [39:09] We're a debtor nation. [39:10] We're a serious debtor nation. [39:11] And we have a country that needs new roads, new tunnels, new bridges, new airports, new schools, new hospitals. [39:17] And we don't have the money because it's been squandered on so many of your ideas. [39:23] And maybe because you haven't paid any federal income tax for a lot of years. [39:28] And the other thing I think is important to point out— [39:30] It would be squandered, too, believe me. [39:32] If your main claim to be President of the United States is your business, then I think we should talk about that. [39:40] You know, your campaign manager said that you built a lot of businesses on the backs of little guys. [39:48] And, indeed, I have met a lot of the people who were stiffed by you and your businesses, Donald. [39:54] I've met dishwashers, painters, architects, glass installers, marble installers, drapery installers like my dad was, [40:06] who you refused to pay when they finished the work that you asked them to do. [40:13] We have an architect in the audience who designed one of your clubhouses at one of your golf courses. [40:19] It's a beautiful facility. [40:21] It immediately was put to use, and you wouldn't pay what the man needed to be paid, what he was charging you to do. [40:30] Maybe he didn't do a good job, and I was unsatisfied with his work, which our country should do, too. [40:35] Do the thousands of people that you have stiffed over the course of your business [40:39] not deserve some kind of apology from someone who has taken their labor, [40:48] taken the goods that they produced, and then refused to pay them. [40:51] I can only say that I'm certainly relieved that my late father never did business with you. [40:56] He provided a good middle-class life for us, but the people he worked for, [41:01] he expected the bargain to be kept on both sides. [41:04] And when we talk about your business, you've taken business bankruptcy six times. [41:13] There are a lot of great business people that have never taken bankruptcy once. [41:17] You call yourself the king of debt. [41:20] You talk about leverage. [41:22] You even at one time suggested that you would try to negotiate down the national debt of the United States. [41:29] Well, sometimes there's not a direct transfer of skills from business to government, [41:36] but sometimes what happened in business would be really bad for government. [41:41] And we need to be very clear about that. [41:45] Look, it's all words. [41:47] It's all sound bites. [41:48] I built an unbelievable company. [41:50] Some of the greatest assets anywhere in the world, real estate assets anywhere in the world, [41:54] beyond the United States, in Europe, lots of different places. [41:57] It's an unbelievable company. [42:00] But on occasion, four times, we used certain laws that are there. [42:07] And when Secretary Clinton talks about people that didn't get paid, first of all, they did get paid a lot, [42:15] but taking advantage of the laws of the nation. [42:18] Now, if you want to change the laws, you've been there a long time, change the laws. [42:22] But I take advantage of the laws of the nation, because I'm running a company. [42:26] My obligation right now is to do well for myself, my family, my employees, for my companies. [42:33] And that's what I do. [42:34] But what she doesn't say is the tens of thousands of people that are unbelievably happy and that love me. [42:42] I'll give you an example. [42:43] We're just opening up on Pennsylvania Avenue, right next to the White House. [42:48] So if I don't get there one way, I'm going to get to Pennsylvania Avenue another. [42:54] But we're opening the old post office, under budget, ahead of schedule, saved tremendous money. [43:01] I'm a year ahead of schedule. [43:03] And that's what this country should be doing. [43:06] We build roads, and they cost two and three and four times what they're supposed to cost. [43:09] We buy products for our military, and they come at costs that are so far above what they were supposed to be, [43:16] because we don't have people that know what they're doing. [43:18] When we look at the budget, the budget is bad to a large extent, [43:22] because we have people that have no idea as to what to do and how to buy. [43:28] The Trump International is way under budget and way ahead of schedule. [43:33] And we should be able to do that for our country. [43:36] Well, we're well behind schedule, so I want to move to our next segment. [43:40] We move into our next segment talking about America's direction, and let's start by talking about race. [43:45] The share of Americans who say race relations are bad in this country is the highest it's been in decades, [43:50] much of it amplified by shootings of African Americans by police, as we've seen recently in Charlotte and Tulsa. [43:58] Race has been a big issue in this campaign, and one of you is going to have to bridge a very wide and bitter gap. [44:03] So how do you heal the divide? [44:05] Secretary Clinton, you get two minutes on this. [44:07] Well, you're right. [44:10] Race remains a significant challenge in our country. [44:16] Unfortunately, race still determines too much, often determines where people live, [44:21] determines what kind of education in their public schools they can get. [44:26] And, yes, it determines how they're treated in the criminal justice system. [44:30] We've just seen those two tragic examples in both Tulsa and Charlotte. [44:34] And we've got to do several things at the same time. [44:40] We have to restore trust between communities and the police. [44:48] We have to work to make sure that our police are using the best training, the best techniques, [44:55] that they're well-prepared to use force only when necessary. [45:01] Secretary, everyone should be respected by the law, and everyone should respect the law. [45:09] Right now, that's not the case in a lot of our neighborhoods. [45:13] So I have, ever since the first day of my campaign, called for criminal justice reform. [45:18] I've laid out a platform that I think would begin to remedy some of the problems we have in the criminal justice system. [45:26] But we also have to recognize, in addition to the challenges that we face with policing, [45:32] there are so many good, brave police officers who equally want reform. [45:37] So we have to bring communities together in order to begin working on that as a mutual goal. [45:44] And we've got to get guns out of the hands of people who should not have them. [45:48] The gun epidemic is the leading cause of death of young African-American men, [45:55] more than the next nine causes put together. [45:58] So we have to do two things, as I said. [46:01] We have to restore trust. [46:02] We have to work with the police. [46:03] We have to make sure they respect the communities and the communities respect them. [46:07] And we have to tackle the plague of gun violence, [46:11] which is a big contributor to a lot of the problems that we're seeing today. [46:15] All right, Mr. Trump, you have two minutes. [46:16] How do you heal the divide? [46:17] Well, first of all, Secretary Clinton doesn't want to use a couple of words, [46:23] and that's law and order. [46:25] We need law and order. [46:26] If we don't have it, we're not going to have a country. [46:30] And when I look at what's going on in Charlotte, a city I love, a city where I have investments, [46:36] when I look at what's going on throughout various parts of our country, whether it's— [46:40] I mean, I can just keep naming them all day long. [46:42] We need law and order in our country. [46:45] And I just got today the—as you know, the endorsement of the fraternal order of police. [46:52] We just came in. [46:54] We have endorsements from, I think, almost every police group, very—I mean, a large percentage [46:59] of them in the United States. [47:01] We have a situation where we have our inner cities, African-Americans, Hispanics, are living [47:10] in hell because it's so dangerous. [47:13] You walk down the street, you get shot. [47:16] In Chicago, they've had thousands of shootings, thousands since January 1st, thousands of shootings. [47:25] And I'm saying, where is this? [47:27] Is this a war-torn country? [47:29] What are we doing? [47:30] And we have to stop the violence. [47:32] We have to bring back law and order in a place like Chicago, where thousands of people [47:38] have been killed, thousands over the last number of years. [47:41] In fact, almost 4,000 have been killed since Barack Obama became president. [47:45] Over four—almost 4,000 people in Chicago have been killed. [47:50] We have to bring back law and order. [47:52] Now, whether or not in a place like Chicago you do stop and frisk, which worked very well. [47:58] Mayor Giuliani is here. [47:59] It worked very well in New York. [48:00] It brought the crime rate way down. [48:02] But you take the gun away from criminals that shouldn't be having it. [48:06] We have gangs roaming the street. [48:09] And in many cases, they're illegally here, illegal immigrants. [48:12] And they have guns. [48:14] And they shoot people. [48:15] And we have to be very strong. [48:17] And we have to be very vigilant. [48:18] We have to be—we have to know what we're doing. [48:21] Right now, our police, in many cases, are afraid to do anything. [48:26] We have to protect our inner cities because African-American communities are being [48:32] decimated by crime. [48:34] Decimated. [48:34] Your two minutes has expired. [48:35] But I do want to follow up. [48:37] Stop and frisk was ruled unconstitutional in New York because it largely singled out [48:42] black and Hispanic young men. [48:44] No, you're wrong. [48:45] It went before a judge who was a very against police judge. [48:52] It was taken away from her. [48:54] And our mayor, our new mayor, refused to go forward with the case. [48:59] They would have won an appeal. [48:59] If you look at it, throughout the country, there are many places where it's allowed. [49:03] The argument is that it's a form of racial profiling. [49:06] No, the argument is that we have to take the guns away from these people that have them [49:09] and that are bad people that shouldn't have them. [49:12] These are felons. [49:13] These are people that are bad people that shouldn't be— [49:16] When you have 3,000 shootings in Chicago from January 1st, when you have 4,000 people killed [49:23] in Chicago by guns from the beginning of the presidency of Barack Obama, his hometown, [49:31] you have to have stop and frisk. [49:33] You need more police. [49:35] You need a better community, you know, relation. [49:39] You don't have good community relations in Chicago. [49:42] It's terrible. [49:43] I have property there. [49:44] It's terrible what's going on in Chicago. [49:46] But when you look—and Chicago's not the only. [49:48] You go to Ferguson. [49:48] You go to so many different places. [49:50] You need better relationships. [49:53] I agree with Secretary Clinton on this. [49:55] You need better relationships between the communities and the police, because in some cases, it's not good. [50:00] But you look at Dallas, where the relationships were really studied. [50:03] The relationships were really a beautiful thing, and then five police officers were killed one night very violently. [50:13] So there's some bad things going on, some really bad things. [50:17] But we need—Lester, we need law and order. [50:20] And we need law and order in the inner cities, because the people that are most affected by what's happening are African-American and Hispanic people. [50:30] And it's very unfair to them what our politicians are allowing to happen. [50:36] Secretary Clinton. [50:37] Well, I've heard—I've heard Donald say this at his rallies, and it's really unfortunate that he paints such a dire negative picture of black communities in our country. [50:52] You know, the vibrancy of the black church, the black businesses that employ so many people, the opportunities that so many families are working to provide for their kids. [51:06] There's a lot that we should be proud of, and we should be supporting and lifting up. [51:11] But we do always have to make sure we keep people safe. [51:15] There are the right ways of doing it, and then there are ways that are ineffective. [51:19] Stop and frisk was found to be unconstitutional, and in part because it was ineffective. [51:27] It did not do what it needed to do. [51:30] Now, I believe in community policing. [51:33] And, in fact, violent crime is one-half of what it was in 1991. [51:38] Property crime is down 40 percent. [51:41] We just don't want to see it creep back up. [51:43] We've had 25 years of very good cooperation, but there were some problems, some unintended consequences. [51:53] Too many young African-American and Latino men ended up in jail for nonviolent offenses. [52:00] And it's just a fact that if you're a young African-American man and you do the same thing as a young white man, you are more likely to be arrested, charged, convicted, and incarcerated. [52:13] So we've got to address the systemic racism in our criminal justice system. [52:19] We cannot just say law and order. [52:22] We have to say—we have to come forward with a plan that is going to divert people from the criminal justice system, deal with mandatory minimum sentences, which have put too many people away for too long for doing too little. [52:38] We need to have more second-chance programs. [52:41] I'm glad that we're ending private prisons in the federal system. [52:45] I want to see them ended in the state system. [52:47] You shouldn't have a profit motivation to fill prison cells with young Americans. [52:53] So there are some positive ways we can work on this. [52:56] And I believe strongly that common-sense gun safety measures would assist us. [53:04] Right now, and this is something Donald has supported, along with the gun lobby, right now, we've got too many military-style weapons on the streets. [53:14] In a lot of places, our police are outgunned. [53:16] We need comprehensive background checks, and we need to keep guns out of the hands of those who will do harm. [53:25] And we finally need to pass a prohibition on anyone who's on the terrorist watch list from being able to buy a gun in our country. [53:34] If you're too dangerous to fly, you are too dangerous to buy a gun. [53:38] So there are things we can do, and we ought to do it in a bipartisan way. [53:41] Secretary Clinton, last week you said we've got to do everything possible to improve policing, to go right at implicit bias. [53:48] Do you believe that police are implicitly biased against black people? [53:51] Lester, I think implicit bias is a problem for everyone, not just police. [53:55] I think, unfortunately, too many of us in our great country jump to conclusions about each other. [54:04] And therefore, I think we need all of us to be asking hard questions about, you know, why am I feeling this way? [54:13] But when it comes to policing, since it can have literally fatal consequences, I have said in my first budget we would put money into that budget to help us deal with implicit bias by retraining a lot of our police officers. [54:30] I've met with a group of very distinguished, experienced police chiefs a few weeks ago. [54:35] They admit it's an issue. [54:36] They've got a lot of concerns. [54:38] Mental health is one of the biggest concerns, because now police are having to handle a lot of really difficult mental health problems on the street. [54:46] They want support. [54:47] They want more training. [54:49] They want more assistance. [54:50] And I think the federal government could be in a position where we would offer and provide that. [54:56] I'd like to respond. [54:57] Please. [54:57] First of all, I agree, and a lot of people, even within my own party, want to give certain rights to people on watch lists and no-fly lists. [55:07] I agree with you. [55:07] When a person is on a watch list or a no-fly list, and I have the endorsement of the NRA, which I'm very proud of. [55:14] These are very, very good people, and they're protecting the Second Amendment. [55:17] But I think we have to look very strongly at no-fly lists and watch lists. [55:22] And when people are on there, even if they shouldn't be on there, we'll help them. [55:25] We'll help them legally. [55:26] We'll help them get off. [55:27] But I tend to agree with that quite strongly. [55:30] I do want to bring up the fact that you were the one that brought up the word super predator about young black youth. [55:38] And that's a term that I think was a—it's been horribly met, as you know. [55:42] I think you've apologized for it. [55:44] But I think it was a terrible thing to say. [55:47] And when it comes to stop and frisk, you know, you're talking about taking guns away. [55:52] Well, I'm talking about taking guns away from gangs and people that use them. [55:56] And I don't think—I really don't think you disagree with me on this, if you want to know the truth. [56:00] I think maybe there's a political reason why you can't say it. [56:03] But I really don't believe—in New York City, stop and frisk, we had 2,200 murders. [56:08] And stop and frisk brought it down to 500 murders. [56:13] 500 murders is a lot of murders. [56:15] Hard to believe. [56:15] 500 is, like, supposed to be good. [56:18] But we went from 2,200 to 500, and it was continued on by Mayor Bloomberg, and it was terminated by a current mayor. [56:26] But stop and frisk had a tremendous impact on the safety of New York City, tremendous beyond belief. [56:32] So when you say it has no impact, it really did. [56:35] It had a very, very big impact. [56:36] Well, it's also fair to say, if we're going to talk about mayors, that under the current mayor, crime has continued to drop, including murders. [56:45] So there is— [56:45] You're wrong. [56:46] You're wrong. [56:46] No, I'm not. [56:47] Murders are up. [56:48] All right, you're checking. [56:49] New York has done an excellent job. [56:52] And I give credit. [56:52] I give credit across the board going back, two mayors, two police chiefs, because it has worked. [57:00] And other communities need to come together to do what will work as well. [57:06] Look, one murder is too many. [57:09] But it is important that we learn about what has been effective and not go to things that sound good, [57:16] that really did not have the kind of impact that we would want. [57:20] Who disagrees with keeping neighborhoods safe? [57:23] But let's also add, no one should disagree about respecting the rights of young men who live in those neighborhoods. [57:34] And so we need to do a better job of working again with the communities, faith communities, business communities, as well as the police to try to deal with this problem. [57:45] This conversation is about race. [57:47] And so, Mr. Trump, I have to ask you— [57:48] But I'd like to just respond, if I might. [57:50] For five— [57:50] Please, 20 seconds. [57:51] I'd just like to respond. [57:52] Please respond, then I've got a follow-up on you. [57:54] I will. [57:54] Look, the African-American community has been let down by our politicians. [57:59] They talk good around election time, like right now. [58:02] And after the election, they said, see you later. [58:04] I'll see you in four years. [58:06] The African-American community—look, the community within the inner cities has been so badly treated. [58:14] They've been abused and used in order to get votes by Democrat politicians, because that's what it is. [58:21] They've controlled these communities for up to 100 years. [58:24] Mr. Trump, let me— [58:24] Unbroken. [58:25] And I will tell you, you look at the inner cities, and I just left Detroit, and I just left Philadelphia, and I just—you know, you've seen me. [58:32] I've been all over the place. [58:34] You decided to stay home, and that's okay. [58:37] But I will tell you, I've been all over, and I've met some of the greatest people I'll ever meet within these communities. [58:44] And they are very, very upset with what their politicians have told them and what their politicians have done. [58:50] Mr. Trump, I—I think—I think that—I think Donald just criticized me for preparing for this debate. [58:58] And yes, I did. [59:00] And you know what else I prepared for? [59:02] I prepared to be president. [59:03] And I think that's a good thing. [59:06] Mr. Trump, for five years, you perpetuated a false claim that the nation's first black president was not a natural-born citizen. [59:13] You questioned his legitimacy. [59:15] In the last couple of weeks, you acknowledged what most Americans have accepted for years. [59:20] The president was born in the United States. [59:22] Can you tell us what took you so long? [59:23] I'll tell you very—well, just very simple to say. [59:26] Sidney Blumenthal works for the campaign and close—very close friend of Secretary Clinton. [59:34] And her campaign manager, Patty Doyle, went to—during the campaign, her campaign against President Obama, fought very hard. [59:46] And you can go look it up and you can check it out. [59:49] And if you look at CNN this past week, Patty Solis Doyle was on Wolf Blitzer saying that this happened. [59:59] Blumenthal sent McClatchy, highly respected reporter at McClatchy, to Kenya to find out about it. [1:00:06] They were pressing it very hard. [1:00:08] She failed to get the birth certificate. [1:00:11] When I got involved, I didn't fail. [1:00:14] I got him to give the birth certificate. [1:00:17] So I'm satisfied with it. [1:00:18] And I'll tell you why I'm satisfied with it. [1:00:20] That was in 2011. [1:00:20] Because I want to get on to defeating ISIS. [1:00:23] Because I want to get on to creating jobs. [1:00:25] Because I want to get on to having a strong border. [1:00:28] Because I want to get on to things that are very important to me and that are very important to the country. [1:00:33] I'll let you respond. [1:00:34] It's important. [1:00:35] But I just want to get the answer here. [1:00:37] The birth certificate was produced in 2011. [1:00:39] You continued to tell the story and question the president's legitimacy in 2012, 13, 14, 15. [1:00:45] Yeah. [1:00:46] As recently as January. [1:00:47] So the question is, what changed your mind? [1:00:49] Well, nobody was pressing it. [1:00:51] Nobody was caring much about it. [1:00:53] I figured you'd ask the question tonight, of course. [1:00:55] But nobody was caring much about it. [1:00:57] But I was the one that got him to produce the birth certificate. [1:01:02] And I think I did a good job. [1:01:05] Secretary Clinton also fought it. [1:01:07] I mean, you know, now everybody in mainstream is going to say, oh, that's not true. [1:01:10] Look, it's true. [1:01:11] Sidney Blumenthal sent a reporter. [1:01:13] You just have to take a look at CNN the last week, the interview with your former campaign manager. [1:01:21] And she was involved. [1:01:22] But just like she can't bring back jobs, she can't produce. [1:01:27] I'm sorry. [1:01:27] I'm just going to follow up. [1:01:28] And I will let you respond to that, because there's a lot there. [1:01:30] But we're talking about racial healing in this segment. [1:01:33] What do you say to Americans? [1:01:34] Well, it was very—I say nothing. [1:01:36] I say nothing, because I was able to get him to produce it. [1:01:38] He should have produced it a long time before. [1:01:40] I say nothing. [1:01:41] But let me just tell you, when you talk about healing, I think that I've developed very, [1:01:46] very good relationships over the last little while with the African-American community. [1:01:52] I think you can see that. [1:01:54] And I feel that they really wanted me to come to that conclusion. [1:01:59] And I think I did a great job and a great service, not only for the country, but even [1:02:03] for the president, in getting him to produce his birth certificate. [1:02:07] Secretary Clinton. [1:02:09] Well, just listen to what you heard. [1:02:13] And clearly, as Donald just admitted, he knew he was going to stand on this debate stage, [1:02:19] and Lester Holt was going to be asking us questions. [1:02:21] So he tried to put the whole racist birther lie to bed. [1:02:27] But it can't be dismissed that easily. [1:02:31] He has really started his political activity based on this racist lie that our first political [1:02:39] black president was not an American citizen. [1:02:44] There was absolutely no evidence for it, but he persisted. [1:02:48] He persisted year after year because some of his supporters, people that he was trying [1:02:55] to bring into his fold, apparently believed it or wanted to believe it. [1:03:00] But remember, Donald started his career back in 1973 being sued by the Justice Department [1:03:09] for Racial Discrimination, because he would not rent apartments in one of his developments [1:03:16] to African Americans. [1:03:17] And he made sure that the people who worked for him understood that was the policy. [1:03:22] He actually was sued twice by the Justice Department. [1:03:26] So he has a long record of engaging in racist behavior. [1:03:33] And the birther lie was a very hurtful one. [1:03:39] You know, Barack Obama is a man of great dignity, and I could tell how much it bothered him and [1:03:46] annoyed him that this was being touted and used against him. [1:03:52] But I like to remember what Michelle Obama said in her amazing speech at our Democratic National [1:03:59] Convention. [1:03:59] When they go low, we go high. [1:04:03] And Barack Obama went high, despite Donald Trump's best efforts to bring him down. [1:04:10] Mr. Trump, you can respond, and we're going to move on to the next segment. [1:04:12] I would love to respond. [1:04:12] First of all, I got to watch, in preparing for this, some of your debates against Barack [1:04:16] Obama. [1:04:17] You treated him with terrible disrespect. [1:04:20] And I watched the way you talk now about how lovely everything is and how wonderful you [1:04:25] are. [1:04:25] It doesn't work that way. [1:04:27] You were after him. [1:04:28] You were trying to, you even sent out, or your campaign sent out, pictures of him in [1:04:32] a certain garb, very famous pictures. [1:04:35] I don't think you can deny that. [1:04:37] But just last week, your campaign manager said it was true. [1:04:40] So when you try to act holier than thou, it really doesn't work. [1:04:45] It really doesn't. [1:04:46] Now, as far as the lawsuit, yes, when I was very young, I went into my father's company. [1:04:50] I had a real estate company in Brooklyn and Queens. [1:04:52] And we, along with many, many other companies throughout the country, as a federal lawsuit, were [1:04:57] sued. [1:04:58] We settled the suit with zero, with no admission of guilt. [1:05:03] It was very easy to do. [1:05:05] But they sued many people. [1:05:06] I notice you bring that up a lot. [1:05:08] And, you know, I also notice the very nasty commercials that you do on me in so many different [1:05:12] ways, which I don't do on you. [1:05:14] Maybe I'm trying to save the money. [1:05:15] But, frankly, I look at that and I say, isn't that amazing? [1:05:20] Because I settled that lawsuit with no admission of guilt. [1:05:25] But that was a lawsuit brought against many real estate firms. [1:05:29] And it's just one of those things. [1:05:30] I'll go on one step further. [1:05:32] In Palm Beach, Florida, tough community, a brilliant community, a wealthy community, probably [1:05:37] the wealthiest community there is in the world. [1:05:39] I opened a club and really got great credit for it. [1:05:45] No discrimination against African Americans, against Muslims, against anybody. [1:05:52] And it's a tremendously successful club. [1:05:56] And I'm so glad I did it. [1:05:58] And I have been given great credit for what I did. [1:06:04] And I'm very, very proud of it. [1:06:06] And that's the way I feel. [1:06:08] That is the true way I feel. [1:06:09] Our next segment is called Securing America. [1:06:12] We want to start with a 21st century war happening every day in this country. [1:06:16] Our institutions are under cyber attack. [1:06:19] And our secrets are being stolen. [1:06:21] So my question is, who's behind it and how do we fight it? [1:06:24] Secretary Clinton, this answer goes to you. [1:06:26] Well, I think cyber security, cyber warfare will be one of the biggest challenges facing [1:06:32] the next president because clearly we're facing at this point two different kinds of adversaries. [1:06:39] There are the independent hacking groups that do it mostly for commercial reasons to try [1:06:47] to steal information that they then can use to make money. [1:06:50] But increasingly, we are seeing cyber attacks coming from states, organs of states. [1:06:57] The most recent and troubling of these has been Russia. [1:07:02] There's no doubt now that Russia has used cyber attacks against all kinds of organizations in our country. [1:07:09] And I am deeply concerned about this. [1:07:11] I know Donald's very praiseworthy of Vladimir Putin. [1:07:18] But Putin is playing a really tough, long game here. [1:07:21] And one of the things he's done is to let loose cyber attackers, to hack into government files, [1:07:29] to hack into personal files, hack into the Democratic National Committee. [1:07:33] And we recently have learned that, you know, that this is one of their preferred methods [1:07:41] of trying to wreak havoc and collect information. [1:07:44] We need to make it very clear, whether it's Russia, China, Iran, or anybody else, [1:07:50] the United States has much greater capacity. [1:07:54] And we are not going to sit idly by and permit state actors to go after our information, [1:08:02] our private sector information or our public sector information. [1:08:06] And we're going to have to make it clear that we don't want to use the kinds of tools that we have. [1:08:13] We don't want to engage in a different kind of warfare. [1:08:16] But we will defend the citizens of this country. [1:08:20] And the Russians need to understand that. [1:08:22] I think they've been treating it as almost a probing. [1:08:26] How far would we go? [1:08:27] How much would we do? [1:08:28] And that's why I was so shocked when Donald publicly invited Putin to hack into Americans. [1:08:36] That is just unacceptable. [1:08:38] It's one of the reasons why 50 national security officials who served in Republican administration [1:08:45] have said that Donald is unfit to be the commander-in-chief. [1:08:50] It's comments like that that really worry people who understand the threats that we face. [1:08:56] Mr. Trump, you have two minutes in the same question. [1:08:57] Yeah, I do want to say that I was just endorsed, and more are coming next week. [1:09:03] It will be over 200 admirals—many of them are here—admirals and generals endorsed me [1:09:08] to lead this country. [1:09:12] That just happened, and many more are coming. [1:09:14] And I'm very proud of it. [1:09:16] In addition, I was just endorsed by ICE. [1:09:19] They've never endorsed anybody before on immigration. [1:09:22] I was just endorsed by ICE. [1:09:23] I was just recently endorsed 16,500 Border Patrol agents. [1:09:28] So when Secretary Clinton talks about this, I mean, I'll take the admirals and I'll take [1:09:34] the generals any day over the political hacks that I see that have led our country so brilliantly [1:09:39] over the last 10 years with their knowledge, okay? [1:09:41] Because look at the mess that we're in. [1:09:43] Look at the mess that we're in. [1:09:45] And as far as the cyber, I agree to parts of what Secretary Clinton said. [1:09:50] We should be better than anybody else, and perhaps we're not. [1:09:53] I don't think anybody knows it was Russia that broke into the DNC. [1:09:56] She's saying Russia, Russia, Russia, but I don't—maybe it was. [1:09:59] I mean, it could be Russia, but it could also be China. [1:10:02] It could also be lots of other people. [1:10:03] It also could be somebody sitting on their bed that weighs 400 pounds, okay? [1:10:07] You don't know who broke into DNC, but what did we learn with DNC? [1:10:13] We learned that Bernie Sanders was taken advantage of by your people, by Debbie Wasserman Schultz. [1:10:22] Look what happened to her. [1:10:23] But Bernie Sanders was taken advantage of. [1:10:26] That's what we learned. [1:10:26] Now, whether that was Russia, whether that was China, whether it was another country, [1:10:31] we don't know, because the truth is, under President Obama, [1:10:34] we've lost control of things that we used to have control over. [1:10:39] We came in with the Internet. [1:10:41] We came up with the Internet. [1:10:42] And I think Secretary Clinton and myself would agree very much. [1:10:45] When you look at what ISIS is doing with the Internet, [1:10:48] they're beating us at our own game, ISIS. [1:10:52] So we have to get very, very tough on cyber and cyber warfare. [1:10:56] It is a—it is a huge problem. [1:10:59] I have a son. [1:11:00] He's 10 years old. [1:11:01] He has computers. [1:11:02] He is so good with these computers. [1:11:04] It's unbelievable. [1:11:06] The security aspect of cyber is very, very tough. [1:11:09] And maybe it's—it's hardly doable. [1:11:12] But I will say, we are not doing the job we should be doing. [1:11:16] But that's true throughout our whole governmental society. [1:11:19] We have so many things that we have to do better, Lester. [1:11:22] And certainly cyber is one of them. [1:11:24] Secretary Clinton. [1:11:26] Well, I think there are a number of issues that we should be addressing. [1:11:30] I have put forth a plan to defeat ISIS. [1:11:33] It does involve going after them online. [1:11:37] I think we need to do much more with our tech companies to prevent ISIS and their operatives [1:11:45] from being able to use the Internet to radicalize, even direct people in our country, in Europe and elsewhere. [1:11:52] But we also have to intensify our air strikes against ISIS and eventually support our Arab and Kurdish partners to be able to actually take out ISIS in Raqqa and their claim of being a caliphate. [1:12:11] We're making progress. [1:12:12] Our military is assisting in Iraq. [1:12:15] And we're hoping that within the year we'll be able to push ISIS out of Iraq and then, you know, really squeeze them in Syria. [1:12:24] But we have to be cognizant of the fact that they've had foreign fighters coming to volunteer for them, foreign money, foreign weapons. [1:12:35] So we have to make this the top priority. [1:12:38] And I would also do everything possible to take out their leadership. [1:12:42] I was involved in a number of efforts to take out al-Qaeda leadership when I was secretary of state, including, of course, taking out bin Laden. [1:12:50] And I think we need to go after Baghdadi as well, make that one of our organizing principles, because we've got to defeat ISIS and we've got to do everything we can to disrupt their propaganda efforts online. [1:13:04] You mentioned ISIS, and we think of ISIS certainly as over there. [1:13:07] But there are American citizens who have been inspired to commit acts of terror on American soil. [1:13:13] The latest incident, of course, the bombings we just saw in New York and New Jersey, the knife attack at a mall in Minnesota, and the last year, deadly attacks in San Bernardino and Orlando. [1:13:23] I'll ask this to both of you. [1:13:24] Tell us specifically how you would prevent homegrown attacks by American citizens, Mr. Trump. [1:13:30] Well, first I have to say one thing, very important. [1:13:32] Secretary Clinton is talking about taking out ISIS. [1:13:36] We will take out ISIS. [1:13:38] Well, President Obama and Secretary Clinton created a vacuum the way they got out of Iraq, because they got out. [1:13:46] They shouldn't have been in, but once they got in, the way they got out was a disaster and ISIS was formed. [1:13:53] So she talks about taking them out. [1:13:54] She's been doing it a long time. [1:13:55] She's been trying to take them out for a long time. [1:13:57] But they wouldn't have even been formed if they left some troops behind, like 10,000 or maybe something more than that. [1:14:06] And then you wouldn't have had them. [1:14:08] Or, as I've been saying for a long time, and I think you'll agree, because I said it to you once, [1:14:12] had we taken the oil, and we should have taken the oil, ISIS would not have been able to form either, [1:14:19] because the oil was their primary source of income. [1:14:23] And now they have the oil all over the place, including the oil, a lot of the oil in Libya, which was another one of her disasters. [1:14:30] Secretary Clinton. [1:14:32] Well, I hope the fact-checkers are turned up and turning up the volume and really working hard. [1:14:38] Donald supported the invasion of Iraq. [1:14:40] Wrong. [1:14:41] That is absolutely proved over and over again. [1:14:44] We actually advocated for the actions we took in Libya and urged that Gaddafi be taken out after actually doing some business with him one time. [1:14:54] But the larger point, he says this constantly, is George W. Bush made the agreement about when American troops would leave Iraq, not Barack Obama. [1:15:08] And the only way that American troops could have stayed in Iraq is to get an agreement from the then-Iraqi government that would have protected our troops. [1:15:19] And the Iraqi government would not give that. [1:15:22] But let's talk about the question you asked, Lester. [1:15:26] The question you asked is, what do we do here in the United States? [1:15:28] That's the most important part of this. [1:15:30] How do we prevent attacks? [1:15:32] How do we protect our people? [1:15:35] And I think we've got to have an intelligence surge where we are looking for every scrap of information. [1:15:41] I was so proud of law enforcement in New York, in Minnesota, in New Jersey. [1:15:47] You know, they responded so quickly, so professionally to the attacks that occurred by Rahami, and they brought him down. [1:15:56] And we may find out more information because he is still alive, which may prove to be an intelligence benefit. [1:16:03] So we've got to do everything we can to vacuum up intelligence from Europe, from the Middle East. [1:16:10] That means we've got to work more closely with our allies. [1:16:14] And that's something that Donald has been very dismissive of. [1:16:18] We're working with NATO, the longest military alliance in the history of the world, to really turn our attention to terrorism. [1:16:26] We're working with our friends in the Middle East, many of which, as you know, are Muslim-majority nations. [1:16:32] Donald has consistently insulted Muslims abroad, Muslims at home, when we need to be cooperating with Muslim nations and with the American Muslim community. [1:16:43] They're on the front lines. [1:16:45] They can provide information to us that we might not get anywhere else. [1:16:49] They need to have close working cooperation with law enforcement in these communities, not be alienated and pushed away, as some of Donald's rhetoric, unfortunately, has led to. [1:17:02] Mr. — [1:17:03] Well, I'd have to respond. [1:17:04] Please respond. [1:17:05] The secretary said very strongly about working with—we've been working with them for many years. [1:17:12] And we have the greatest mess anyone's ever seen. [1:17:15] You look at the Middle East, it's a total mess, under your direction to a large extent. [1:17:19] But you look at the Middle East. [1:17:20] You started the Iran deal. [1:17:22] That's another beauty, where you have a country that was ready to fall. [1:17:26] I mean, they were doing so badly. [1:17:27] They were choking on the sanctions. [1:17:29] And now they're going to be actually probably a major power at some point pretty soon, the way they're going. [1:17:34] But when you look at NATO, I was asked on a major show, what do you think of NATO? [1:17:40] And you have to understand I'm a business person. [1:17:42] I did really well. [1:17:43] But I have common sense. [1:17:44] And I said, well, I'll tell you. [1:17:46] I haven't given lots of thought to NATO, but two things. [1:17:49] Number one, the 28 countries of NATO, many of them aren't paying their fair share. [1:17:53] Number two, and that bothers me because we should be—yes, we're defending them, [1:17:57] and they should at least be paying us what they're supposed to be paying by treaty and contract. [1:18:03] And number two, I said, and very strongly, NATO could be obsolete because—and I was very strong [1:18:09] on this, and it was actually covered very accurately in The New York Times, which is unusual for The New York Times, [1:18:14] to be honest. [1:18:15] But I said they do not focus on terror. [1:18:19] And I was very strong. [1:18:21] And I said it numerous times, and about four months ago, I read on the front page of The Wall Street Journal [1:18:26] that NATO is opening up a major terror division. [1:18:31] And I think that's great. [1:18:32] And I think we should get—because we pay approximately 73 percent of the cost of NATO. [1:18:37] It's a lot of money to protect other people. [1:18:40] But I'm all for NATO. [1:18:42] But I said they have to focus on terror also. [1:18:44] And they're going to do that. [1:18:45] And that was—believe me, I'm sure I'm not going to get credit for it. [1:18:49] But that was largely because of what I was saying and my criticism of NATO. [1:18:53] I think we have to get NATO to go into the Middle East with us, in addition to surrounding nations, [1:19:00] and we have to knock the hell out of ISIS. [1:19:03] And we have to do it fast. [1:19:04] When ISIS formed in this vacuum created by Barack Obama and Secretary Clinton—and, believe me, [1:19:13] you were the ones that took out the troops. [1:19:15] Not only that, you named the day. [1:19:16] They couldn't believe it. [1:19:17] They sat back probably and said, I can't believe it. [1:19:19] They said, no, wait a minute. [1:19:20] We've covered this round. [1:19:20] When they formed—when they formed, this is something that never should have happened. [1:19:25] It should have never happened. [1:19:27] Now, you're talking about taking out ISIS. [1:19:29] But you were there and you were Secretary of State when it was a little infant. [1:19:33] Now it's in over 30 countries. [1:19:36] And you're going to stop them? [1:19:37] I don't think so. [1:19:38] Mr. Trump, a lot of these are judgment questions. [1:19:41] You had supported the war in Iraq before the invasion. [1:19:44] What makes your judgment— [1:19:45] I did not support the war in Iraq. [1:19:47] 2002. [1:19:48] That is a mainstream media nonsense put out by her because she, frankly, I think the best [1:19:54] person in her campaign is mainstream media. [1:19:57] My question is, since you supported it, why is your judgment— [1:19:59] I was against the war—wait a minute. [1:20:01] I was against the war in Iraq, just so you put it out. [1:20:05] The record shows otherwise. [1:20:06] The record does not show that. [1:20:07] Why is your judgment any— [1:20:08] The record shows that I'm right. [1:20:10] When I did an interview with Howard Stern, very lightly, first time anyone's asked me [1:20:14] that, I said, very lightly, I don't know, maybe, who knows, essentially. [1:20:20] I then did an interview with Neil Cavuto. [1:20:23] We talked about the economy is more important. [1:20:26] I then spoke to Sean Hannity, which everybody refuses to call Sean Hannity. [1:20:30] I had numerous conversations with Sean Hannity at Fox, and Sean Hannity said—and he called [1:20:36] me the other day, and I spoke to him about it. [1:20:39] He said, you were totally against the war because he was for the war. [1:20:42] Why is your judgment better than— [1:20:43] And that was before the war started. [1:20:45] Sean Hannity said very strongly to me and other people—he's willing to say it, but [1:20:50] nobody wants to call him—I was against the war. [1:20:53] He said, you used to have fights with me because Sean was in favor of the war. [1:20:56] And I understand that side also—not very much, because we should have never been there—but [1:21:02] nobody called Sean Hannity. [1:21:04] And then they did an article in a major magazine shortly after the war started, I think in 2004, [1:21:11] but they did an article which had me totally against the war in Iraq. [1:21:16] And one of your compatriots said, you know, whether it was before or right after, Trump [1:21:21] was definitely—because if you read this article, there's no doubt. [1:21:24] But if somebody—and I'll ask the press—if somebody would call up Sean Hannity. [1:21:29] This was before the war started. [1:21:31] He and I used to have arguments about the war. [1:21:33] I said, it's a terrible and a stupid thing. [1:21:36] It's going to destabilize the Middle East. [1:21:38] And that's exactly what it's done. [1:21:40] It's been a disaster. [1:21:41] My reference was to what you had said in 2002. [1:21:42] And my question was, why is your judgment any different than Mrs. Clinton's? [1:21:47] Well, I have much better judgment than she does. [1:21:49] There's no question about that. [1:21:51] I also have a much better temperament than she has, you know? [1:21:55] I have a much better—she spent, let me tell you, she spent hundreds of millions of dollars [1:22:01] on an advertising—you know, they get Madison Avenue into a room, they put names—oh, temperament. [1:22:06] Let's go after—I think my strongest asset, maybe by far, is my temperament. [1:22:11] I have a winning temperament. [1:22:13] I know how to win. [1:22:14] She does not know how to win. [1:22:15] Secretary Clinton. [1:22:16] The AFL-CIO, the other day, behind the blue screen, I don't know who you were talking [1:22:22] to, Secretary Clinton, but you were totally out of control. [1:22:26] I said, there's a person with a temperament that's got a problem. [1:22:30] Secretary Clinton. [1:22:31] Whew! [1:22:32] Okay. [1:22:37] Let's talk about two important issues that were briefly mentioned by Donald. [1:22:44] First, NATO. [1:22:45] You know, NATO, as a military alliance, has something called Article 5, and basically [1:22:50] it says this, an attack on one is an attack on all. [1:22:54] And do you know the only time it's ever been invoked after 9-11, when the 28 nations of [1:23:01] NATO said that they would go to Afghanistan with us to fight terrorism, something that [1:23:09] they still are doing by our side. [1:23:13] With respect to Iran, when I became secretary of state, Iran was weeks away from having enough [1:23:19] nuclear material to form a bomb. [1:23:22] They had mastered the nuclear fuel cycle under the Bush administration. [1:23:26] They had built covert facilities. [1:23:28] They had stocked them with centrifuges that were whirling away. [1:23:33] And we had sanctioned them. [1:23:35] I voted for every sanction against Iran when I was in the Senate. [1:23:38] But it wasn't enough. [1:23:40] So I spent a year and a half putting together a coalition that included Russia and China [1:23:46] to impose the toughest sanctions on Iran. [1:23:50] And we did drive them to the negotiating table. [1:23:54] And my successor, John Kerry, and President Obama got a deal that put a lid on Iran's nuclear [1:24:01] program, without firing a single shot. [1:24:05] That's diplomacy. [1:24:06] That's coalition building. [1:24:08] That's working with other nations. [1:24:10] The other day, I saw Donald saying that there were some Iranian sailors on a ship in the [1:24:16] waters off of Iran. [1:24:18] And they were taunting American sailors who were on a nearby ship. [1:24:23] He said, you know, if they taunted our sailors, I'd blow them out of the water and start another [1:24:29] war. [1:24:30] That's not good judgment. [1:24:32] That is not the right temperament to be commander-in-chief, to be taunted. [1:24:39] And the worst part of what we've heard Donald say has been about nuclear weapons. [1:24:44] He has said repeatedly that he didn't care if other nations got nuclear weapons, Japan, [1:24:50] South Korea, even Saudi Arabia. [1:24:52] It has been the policy of the United States, Democrats and Republicans, to do everything [1:24:57] we could to reduce the proliferation of nuclear weapons. [1:25:02] He even said, well, you know, if there were a nuclear war in the East Asia, well, you know, [1:25:08] that's fine. [1:25:09] You know, have a good time, folks. [1:25:11] And in fact, his cavalier attitude about nuclear weapons is so deeply troubling. [1:25:18] That is the number one threat we face in the world. [1:25:21] And it becomes particularly threatening if terrorists ever get their hands on any nuclear material. [1:25:29] So a man who can be provoked by a tweet should not have his fingers anywhere near the nuclear [1:25:34] codes as far as I think anyone with any sense about this should be concerned. [1:25:39] That line is getting a little bit old, I must say. [1:25:41] Listen. [1:25:42] It's a good one, though. [1:25:43] I would like to. [1:25:44] Well describes the problem. [1:25:45] It's not an accurate one at all. [1:25:46] It's not an accurate one. [1:25:47] So I just want to give a lot of things and just to respond, I agree with her on one thing. [1:25:53] The single greatest problem the world has is nuclear armament, nuclear weapons, not global [1:26:01] warming like you think and your president thinks. [1:26:06] Nuclear is the single greatest threat. [1:26:08] Just to go down the list, we defend Japan, we defend Germany, we defend South Korea, we [1:26:14] defend Saudi Arabia, we defend countries. [1:26:17] They do not pay us what they should be paying us because we are providing tremendous service [1:26:22] and we're losing a fortune. [1:26:24] That's why we're losing, we're losing, we lose on everything. [1:26:27] I say, who makes these? [1:26:28] We lose on everything. [1:26:29] Well, I said that it's very possible that if they don't pay a fair share, because this [1:26:35] isn't 40 years ago where we could do what we're doing. [1:26:38] We can't defend Japan, a behemoth selling us cars by the million. [1:26:43] We need to move on. [1:26:44] But it's very important. [1:26:45] All I said was they may have to defend themselves or they have to help us out. [1:26:50] We're a country that owes $20 trillion. [1:26:53] They have to help us out. [1:26:54] As far as the nuclear is concerned, I agree, it is the single greatest threat that this [1:27:01] country has. [1:27:02] Which leads to my next question as we enter our last segment here, still on the subject [1:27:05] of securing America. [1:27:06] On nuclear weapons, President Obama reportedly considered changing the nation's longstanding [1:27:11] policy on first use. [1:27:13] Do you support the current policy? [1:27:15] Mr. Trump, you have two minutes on that. [1:27:16] Well, I have to say that, you know, for what Secretary Clinton was saying about nuclear [1:27:21] with Russia, she's very cavalier in the way she talks about various countries. [1:27:27] But Russia has been expanding. [1:27:29] They have a much newer capability than we do. [1:27:32] We have not been updating from the new standpoint. [1:27:36] I looked the other night, I was seeing B-52s there, old enough that your father, your grandfather [1:27:41] could be flying them. [1:27:42] We are not, we are not keeping up with other countries. [1:27:45] I would like everybody to end it, just get rid of it. [1:27:49] But I would certainly not do first strike. [1:27:51] I think that once the nuclear alternative happens, it's over. [1:27:57] At the same time, we have to be prepared. [1:27:59] I can't take anything off the table. [1:28:01] Because you look at some of these countries, you look at North Korea. [1:28:05] You're doing nothing there. [1:28:06] China should solve that problem for us. [1:28:08] China should go into North Korea. [1:28:11] China is totally powerful as it relates to North Korea. [1:28:16] And by the way, another one powerful is the worst deal I think I've ever seen negotiated [1:28:19] that you started is the Iran deal. [1:28:21] Iran is one of their biggest trading partners. [1:28:23] Iran has power over North Korea. [1:28:26] And when they made that horrible deal with Iran, they should have included the fact that they [1:28:32] do something with respect to North Korea. [1:28:35] And they should have done something with respect to Yemen and all these other places. [1:28:39] And when asked to Secretary Kerry, why didn't you do that? [1:28:43] Why didn't you add other things into the deal? [1:28:45] One of the great giveaways of all time, of all time, including $400 million in cash. [1:28:53] Nobody has ever seen that before. [1:28:55] But it turned out to be wrong. [1:28:56] It was actually $1.7 billion in cash, obviously, I guess, for the hostages. [1:29:03] It certainly looks that way. [1:29:04] So you say to yourself, why didn't they make the right deal? [1:29:09] This is one of the worst deals ever made by any country in history. [1:29:14] The deal with Iran will lead to nuclear problems. [1:29:18] All they have to do is sit back 10 years. [1:29:20] And they don't have to do much. [1:29:21] And they're going to end up getting nuclear. [1:29:23] I met with Bibi Netanyahu the other day. [1:29:26] Believe me, he is not a happy camper. [1:29:28] All right. [1:29:29] Mrs. Clinton, Secretary Clinton, you have two minutes. [1:29:31] Let me start by saying words matter. [1:29:35] Words matter when you run for president. [1:29:37] And they really matter when you are president. [1:29:40] And I want to reassure our allies in Japan and South Korea and elsewhere that we have mutual [1:29:48] defense treaties, and we will honor them. [1:29:51] It is essential that America's word be good. [1:29:56] And so I know that this campaign has caused some questioning and some worries on the part [1:30:01] of many leaders across the globe. [1:30:04] I have talked with a number of them. [1:30:07] But I want to, on behalf of myself and I think on behalf of a majority of the American people, [1:30:13] say that our word is good. [1:30:17] It's also important that we look at the entire global situation. [1:30:24] There's no doubt that we have other problems with Iran. [1:30:28] But personally, I'd rather deal with the other problems having put that lid on their nuclear [1:30:32] program than still to be facing that. [1:30:36] And Donald never tells you what he would do. [1:30:38] Would he have started a war? [1:30:40] Would he have bombed Iran? [1:30:41] If he's going to criticize a deal that has been very successful in giving us access to [1:30:48] Iranian facilities that we never had before, then he should tell us what his alternative [1:30:54] would be. [1:30:55] But it's like his plan to defeat ISIS. [1:30:58] He says it's a secret plan, but the only secret is that he has no plan. [1:31:03] So we need to be more precise in how we talk about these issues. [1:31:07] People around the world follow our presidential campaigns so closely, trying to get hints about [1:31:14] what we will do. [1:31:16] Can they rely on us? [1:31:18] Are we going to lead the world with strength and in accordance with our values? [1:31:23] That's what I intend to do. [1:31:25] I intend to be a leader of our country that people can count on, both here at home and [1:31:30] around the world, to make decisions that will further peace and prosperity, but also stand [1:31:37] up to bullies, whether they're abroad or at home. [1:31:41] We cannot let those who would try to destabilize the world, to interfere with American interests [1:31:48] and security, to be given any opportunities at all. [1:31:52] Mr Trump. [1:31:53] Let's do one thing I'd like to say. [1:31:54] Very quickly. [1:31:55] I will go very quickly, but I will tell you that Hillary will tell you to go to her website [1:32:01] and read all about how to defeat ISIS, which she could have defeated by never having it, [1:32:06] you know, get going in the first place. [1:32:07] Right now it's getting tougher and tougher to defeat them, because they're in more and [1:32:11] more places, more and more states, more and more nations, and it's a big problem. [1:32:15] And as far as Japan is concerned, I want to help all of our allies. [1:32:20] But we are losing billions and billions of dollars. [1:32:25] We cannot be the policeman of the world. [1:32:27] We cannot protect countries all over the world where they're not paying us what we need. [1:32:33] We have just a few final questions. [1:32:34] She doesn't say that because she's got no business ability. [1:32:37] We need heart. [1:32:38] We need a lot of things. [1:32:39] But you have to have some basic ability. [1:32:41] And sadly, she doesn't have that. [1:32:43] All of the things that she's talking about could have been taken care of during the last [1:32:47] 10 years, let's say, while she had great power. [1:32:51] But they weren't taken care of. [1:32:52] And if she ever wins this race, they won't be taken care of. [1:32:55] This year, Secretary Clinton became the first woman nominated for president by a major party. [1:32:59] Earlier this month, you said she doesn't have, quote, a presidential look. [1:33:03] She's standing here right now. [1:33:05] What did you mean by that? [1:33:07] She doesn't have the look. [1:33:08] She doesn't have the stamina. [1:33:10] I said she doesn't have the stamina. [1:33:13] And I don't believe she does have the stamina. [1:33:16] To be president of this country, you need tremendous stamina. [1:33:19] The quote was, I just don't think she has a presidential look. [1:33:21] Wait a minute, let's see. [1:33:22] You asked me a question. [1:33:23] Did you ask me a question? [1:33:25] You have to be able to negotiate our trade deals. [1:33:29] You have to be able to negotiate, that's right, with Japan, with Saudi Arabia. [1:33:35] I mean, can you imagine we're defending Saudi Arabia, and with all of the money they have, [1:33:40] we're defending them, and they're not paying? [1:33:41] All you have to do is speak to them. [1:33:42] Wait. [1:33:43] You have so many different things you have to be able to do. [1:33:47] And I don't believe that Hillary has the stamina. [1:33:50] Let's let her respond. [1:33:52] Well, as soon as he travels to 112 countries and negotiates a peace deal, a ceasefire, [1:34:01] a release of dissidents, an opening of new opportunities in nations around the world, [1:34:08] or even spends 11 hours testifying in front of a congressional committee, he can talk to [1:34:13] me about stamina. [1:34:14] The world—let me tell you, let me tell you. [1:34:20] Hillary has experience, but it's bad experience. [1:34:24] We have made so many bad deals during the last—so she's got experience, that I agree, but [1:34:29] it's bad, bad experience. [1:34:31] Whether it's the Iran deal that you're so in love with, where we gave them $150 billion [1:34:36] back, whether it's the Iran deal, whether it's anything—you almost can't name a good deal. [1:34:44] I agree. [1:34:45] She's got experience, but it's bad experience. [1:34:48] And this country can't afford to have another four years of that kind of experience. [1:34:52] We are at the—we are at the final question very quickly because we're at the final question [1:34:58] now. [1:34:59] One thing, Lester, is, you know, he tried to switch from looks to stamina, but this is [1:35:03] a man who has called women pigs, slobs and dogs. [1:35:08] And someone who has said pregnancy is an inconvenience to employers, who has said women don't deserve [1:35:16] equal pay unless they do as good a job as men. [1:35:21] And one of the worst things he said was about a woman in a beauty contest. [1:35:28] He loves beauty contests, supporting them and hanging around them. [1:35:32] And he called this woman Miss Piggy, then he called her Miss Housekeeping because she [1:35:39] was Latina. [1:35:40] Donald, she has a name. [1:35:41] Where did you find this? [1:35:42] Where did you find this? [1:35:43] Her name is Alicia Machado. [1:35:44] Where did you find this? [1:35:45] She has become a U.S. citizen, and you can bet— [1:35:48] Oh, really? [1:35:49] She's going to vote this November. [1:35:50] Okay. [1:35:51] Okay, good. [1:35:52] Let me just tell you. [1:35:53] Let me just tell you. [1:35:54] Let me just tell you. [1:35:55] You know, Hillary is hitting me with tremendous commercials. [1:35:59] Some of it said in entertainment. [1:36:01] Some of it said somebody who's been very vicious to me, Rosie O'Donnell. [1:36:05] I said very tough things to her, and I think everybody would agree that she deserves it, [1:36:09] and nobody feels sorry for her. [1:36:11] But you want to know the truth? [1:36:12] I was going to say something extremely rough to Hillary, to her family, and I said to myself, [1:36:21] I can't do it. [1:36:23] I just can't do it. [1:36:24] It's inappropriate. [1:36:26] It's not nice. [1:36:27] But she spent hundreds of millions of dollars on negative ads on me, many of which are absolutely [1:36:33] untrue. [1:36:34] They're untrue, and they're misrepresentations. [1:36:36] And I will tell you this, Lester, it's not nice, and I don't deserve that. [1:36:42] But it's certainly not a nice thing that she's done. [1:36:45] It's hundreds of millions of ads. [1:36:47] And the only gratifying thing is, I saw the polls come in today, and with all of that [1:36:52] money, over $200 million is spent, and I'm either winning or tied, and I've spent practically [1:36:58] nothing. [1:36:59] One of you will not win this election. [1:37:02] So my final question to you tonight, are you willing to accept the outcome as the will of [1:37:06] the voters? [1:37:07] Secretary Clinton? [1:37:08] Well, I think I support our democracy. [1:37:10] And sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. [1:37:14] But I certainly will support the outcome of this election. [1:37:19] And I know Donald's trying very hard to plant doubts about it. [1:37:23] But I hope the people out there understand this election is really up to you. [1:37:28] It's not about us so much as it is about you and your families and the kind of country [1:37:33] and future you want. [1:37:34] So I sure hope you will get out and vote, as though your future depended on it, because [1:37:39] I think it does. [1:37:40] Mr. Trump, very quickly, the same question. [1:37:41] Will you accept the outcome as the will of the voters? [1:37:43] I want to make America great again. [1:37:46] We are a nation that is seriously troubled. [1:37:49] We're losing our jobs. [1:37:50] People are pouring into our country. [1:37:53] The other day, we were deporting 800 people. [1:37:56] And perhaps they passed the wrong button. [1:37:58] They pressed the wrong button. [1:37:59] Or perhaps, worse than that, it was corruption. [1:38:02] But these people that we were going to deport, for good reason, ended up becoming citizens. [1:38:07] Ended up becoming citizens. [1:38:10] And it was 800, and now it turns out it might be 1,800, and they don't even know. [1:38:15] Will you accept the outcome of the election? [1:38:16] Look, here's the story. [1:38:17] I want to make America great again. [1:38:18] I'm going to be able to do it. [1:38:20] I don't believe Hillary will. [1:38:21] The answer is, if she wins, I will absolutely support her. [1:38:24] All right. [1:38:25] Well, that is going to do it for us. [1:38:27] That concludes our debate for this evening, a spirited one. [1:38:30] We covered a lot of ground. [1:38:31] Not everything, as I suspected we wouldn't would. [1:38:34] The next presidential debates are scheduled for October 9th at Washington University in [1:38:39] St. Louis, and October 19th at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas. [1:38:43] The conversation will continue. [1:38:45] A reminder, the vice presidential debate is scheduled for October 4th at Longwood University [1:38:50] in Farmville, Virginia. [1:38:51] My thanks to Hillary Clinton and to Donald Trump and to Hofstra University for hosting [1:38:56] us tonight. [1:38:57] Good night, everyone. [1:39:01] And that concludes the first debate between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. [1:39:06] We watched them there on the stage. [1:39:08] Joining Gwen Ifill and me here in our studio for some analysis, syndicated columnist Mark Shields, [1:39:14] New York Times columnist David Brooks and Amy Walter of The Cook Political Report. [1:39:19] Mark Shields, they did cover a lot of ground, from jobs to taxes, from race to ISIS, and just [1:39:25] now women. [1:39:27] What did you make of it all? [1:39:29] MARK SHIELDS, The Cook Political Report, The Cook Political Report, The Cook Political Report [1:39:30] I think that, first of all, Donald Trump made it about him, rather than about the American [1:39:35] people. [1:39:36] I think that was missing in his message. [1:39:40] And I really think that he is a remarkable political figure, in that, if you think about [1:39:47] American presidents, whether it's Ronald Reagan or John Kennedy or Barack Obama or Franklin [1:39:52] Roosevelt, there was always an optimism to them. [1:39:55] It is a very dark and rather dreary message that was surrounded by people who are not simply [1:40:01] incompetent, but who are cutting deals, who have conflicts of interest. [1:40:07] If Hillary Clinton, I thought, was Hillary Clinton, she was factual, she was well-organized in [1:40:14] thinking, not particularly likable, did not come across as a... [1:40:18] It did not reveal much about herself, other than that anecdote about her dad again, and [1:40:22] a brief nod to the grandchild at the opening. [1:40:25] But I really thought Trump did fail his test of presidential. [1:40:30] As we watched the families come on stage, as is typical after these debates, the Clintons, [1:40:37] former President Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton, of course, and Chelsea Clinton is there as [1:40:40] well. [1:40:41] And on the other side of the state, Melania and Donald Trump, his sons, his daughters, [1:40:44] all there to greet them. [1:40:46] Now, Amy, we counted it up. [1:40:49] Hillary Clinton referred to Donald Trump by his first name, Donald. [1:40:53] Most people call him Mr. Trump, 22 times. [1:40:56] She clearly had it in her mind that she wanted to get under skin, to bug him. [1:41:00] Did it work? [1:41:01] Well, he was on the defensive much more than he was on the offense in this debate, whether [1:41:05] it was on the question of the birtherism, on his taxes, his support for the Iraq War, [1:41:11] the debate about women and his things he said about women, about stamina. [1:41:16] This was a debate in which she was able, and I think that Mark is completely right, Trump [1:41:23] made it about himself, but she helped him to make it about himself. [1:41:27] Look, she did not provide the vision, I think, that there are a lot of folks, even on the [1:41:34] Democratic side, looking for that sense of, what is the bigger message of Hillary Clinton? [1:41:39] She's very smart. [1:41:40] She has all of the facts outlined. [1:41:44] She has all of the policy papers up on her Web site. [1:41:47] But the bigger sort of cohesive vision for where we take America, I just, I don't know [1:41:53] that we still saw that in this debate. [1:41:56] JUDY WOODRUFF, David, how do you see this? [1:41:57] Did either one of them do what they needed to do tonight? [1:42:00] DAVID BROOKS, Well, it wasn't. [1:42:01] If they're what they needed to do was make me feel better about the country, they failed. [1:42:05] It was the opposite of elevating on both sides. [1:42:07] I thought for the first half hour that Donald Trump was winning. [1:42:10] And I thought that was because he may be obnoxious, but he is a change agent. [1:42:14] And it was the first half hour was on his turf. [1:42:18] And her answers, Hillary Clinton's answers, when it was on it gets to policy, it can't [1:42:22] just be three things. [1:42:23] It has to be 16 things. [1:42:24] And you get in a laundry list mode. [1:42:26] Then she started attacking him, and she had two devastatingly good answers on the birther [1:42:30] issue and the tax return issue, which were really good assaults on him. [1:42:33] So, even though she's not good at describing a policy, she's really good at going after him. [1:42:37] And then the debate got on, and Donald Trump became Donald Trump. [1:42:41] And with every answer, I was digging it a little deeper. [1:42:43] His birther answer was abysmal. [1:42:44] JOHN YANG, President of the United States of America, and a bunch of bad answers all [1:42:46] in a row. [1:42:47] The race issue was terrible. [1:42:50] The looks issue, bad. [1:42:52] And so he just, his lack of preparation, and, frankly, a lot of his policies and his [1:42:56] character just got worse and worse and worse. [1:42:58] So I think you would have to say this was a Clinton night. [1:43:00] JUDY WOODRUFF, John Yang is in the... [1:43:03] At Hofstra University for us tonight. [1:43:05] He's at the site of tonight's debate. [1:43:07] And I'm wondering what the scene is like there, John, how it's going over. [1:43:10] JOHN YANG, President of the United States of America, and I'm wondering what the scene [1:43:11] is like there, John, how it's going over. [1:43:13] JOHN YANG, President of the United States of America, and I'm wondering what the scene [1:43:14] is like there, John, how it's going over. [1:43:15] JOHN YANG, President of the United States of America, and I tell you, the spinners are just [1:43:16] coming out. [1:43:17] I'm just in front of the Donald Trump holding room. [1:43:19] You can see them coming by here. [1:43:21] Before Senator Claire McCaskill came by, she is obviously a supporter of Secretary Clinton. [1:43:28] She was telling me that she felt, and this is sort of the line coming out of the Clinton [1:43:33] room tonight, that Donald Trump, once again, they say, showed that he wasn't prepared to [1:43:38] be president. [1:43:39] They say that this was... [1:43:41] They say that it came right from the top when the secretary was able to give what they're [1:43:47] saying was a coherent policy about providing jobs in America, but he wasn't. [1:43:54] I tried to... [1:43:55] Governor Christie went by, wouldn't stop. [1:43:58] I'm trying to see if I can get someone from the Trump campaign to get their reaction. [1:44:04] But, so far, that's what we have gotten so far. [1:44:07] JUDY WOODRUFF, OK, John, we're going to let you keep searching for people in the room to [1:44:10] talk to, and we will get back to you. [1:44:11] JUDY WOODRUFF, and, Mark, I want to come to you, because was there any... [1:44:14] You know, David was saying that Donald Trump did better in the first half hour when they [1:44:18] talked about jobs, and he talked about jobs leaving the country. [1:44:22] And did Hillary Clinton ever have an answer to that? [1:44:24] DAVID BROOKS- Well, I thought, I mean, she was defensive, there's no question about it. [1:44:29] She's defensive on the TPP. [1:44:30] But, I mean, her answer that there were more manufacturing jobs, she did in defense of [1:44:35] her husband's economic record, not a very... [1:44:37] A rather tepid defense. [1:44:38] I mean, there is a hell of a defense to be made for Bill Clinton's eight years of 22 million [1:44:43] jobs and the lowest unemployment rates for African Americans, they used to be the country, [1:44:47] balanced in the budget. [1:44:48] And she did... [1:44:49] She just said more manufacturing jobs in the 90s. [1:44:52] But I want to say, in defense of Trump, not to be totally... [1:44:56] I have never heard a presidential candidate, and I have heard 40 of them, say, I'm extremely [1:45:00] under-leveraged. [1:45:01] I mean, that was a rather remarkable statement, if you think about it. [1:45:05] And when he talked about not paying taxes, he said it would be squandered, too. [1:45:11] That's why he didn't pay any taxes. [1:45:13] And I thought those were kind of... and the explanation, the one that will be most memorable [1:45:19] was that who hacked the DNC? [1:45:21] It wasn't Russia. [1:45:22] It could have been Russia. [1:45:23] It could have been China. [1:45:24] It could have been some other country. [1:45:25] Or it could have been someone sitting on the bed that weighs 400 pounds. [1:45:28] I don't know if the bed weighs 400 pounds or the person weighs 400 pounds. [1:45:30] JUDY WOODRUFF, and that is your definition of... [1:45:31] DAVID BROOKS, That was it. [1:45:32] DAVID BROOKS, That was it. [1:45:33] That was it. [1:45:34] JUDY WOODRUFF, Just checking. [1:45:35] DAVID BROOKS, He touched me, too. [1:45:36] I'm under-leveraged myself, under-leveraged. [1:45:37] JUDY WOODRUFF, Can we talk a little bit about the line of questioning on race? [1:45:42] Because when... [1:45:44] I never heard a presidential candidate in the debate call the person that he or she is [1:45:47] running against use the word racist three times. [1:45:50] And also, when he was asked about race, Donald Trump talked about law and order. [1:45:56] What were the dog whistles in the room? [1:45:57] Or maybe they weren't even dog whistles. [1:45:59] Everybody could hear them. [1:46:00] LISA DESJARDINS, Yes. [1:46:01] Donald Trump's answer, whenever there's an issue on whether it's on race, whether it's [1:46:06] on policing, whether it's on terrorism, he always comes back to, it's all about law and [1:46:11] order. [1:46:12] We're going to get stuff done, because that's how things work. [1:46:15] And we also know that that's an answer that is not a comfortable answer for many people [1:46:22] in the African-American community and in among nonwhite voters about who gets profiled when [1:46:29] we have stop-and-frisk programs, when we have law and order, what that actually means. [1:46:34] These were questions that were not the kinds of questions that Donald Trump answers particularly [1:46:40] well. [1:46:41] And that's what he's playing to. [1:46:42] I mean, we talked about this a lot during the convention. [1:46:45] Throughout this, throughout the convention, throughout this debate, Donald Trump talked [1:46:49] to the same people he's been talking to this entire campaign. [1:46:53] There are a group of voters out there who are white, who are working class, who he's [1:46:59] done very, very well with. [1:47:00] And those are the voters he expects to take him all the way throughout this election. [1:47:04] And he's not interested in reaching out and getting beyond that base. [1:47:08] JUDY WOODRUFF, David, picking up on what Amy is saying, it seems to me that much of this [1:47:12] debate was on territory where Donald Trump is uncomfortable. [1:47:15] I mean, the whole birther question, Lester Holt raised that. [1:47:18] He pushed Donald Trump on that. [1:47:20] He pushed him on his tax returns, which we have been talking about. [1:47:23] I mean, these were areas where Donald Trump was back against the ropes. [1:47:27] DAVID BROOKS, U.S.: Yes. [1:47:28] I do think Holt was tougher on Trump than on Clinton. [1:47:30] Maybe there's more to work with there. [1:47:32] And he certainly exposed some vulnerabilities. [1:47:34] The defense that I have a country club in Palm Beach, which allows in some minorities, [1:47:38] that is not your good defense. [1:47:40] But here's what... [1:47:41] JUDY WOODRUFF, Trump is apparently already tweeting that there weren't good questions [1:47:44] about e-mails, about Benghazi. [1:47:45] DAVID BROOKS, U.S.: Right, right. [1:47:46] JUDY WOODRUFF, and the Clinton Foundation. [1:47:47] DAVID BROOKS, U.S.: And somewhat fair, actually. [1:47:48] But here's what I think is going to happen. [1:47:50] I think he looked really bad on some of the, especially some of the racial stuff, on the gender [1:47:55] stuff, a lot of stuff. [1:47:57] And so I think we can expect his polls to drop as after the convention season. [1:48:01] But, as Amy said, that's not his audience. [1:48:05] And, two, he is thematically so consistent. [1:48:08] We are under assault. [1:48:09] We are under assault. [1:48:10] We are under assault. [1:48:11] And it would not surprise me if he then... [1:48:12] His numbers began to go up, as they have in the last couple of weeks with all the stuff. [1:48:18] He's already said all this before. [1:48:19] JUDY WOODRUFF, I might also ask that, if you want to know, we have been keeping track of the [1:48:22] things that were true, the things that were false that were said tonight on our Web site, [1:48:25] PBS.org slash Newshour. [1:48:27] Just go there and find what all of our experts, including our own Margaret Warner and Paul [1:48:32] Solman, are answering these questions. [1:48:34] But facts... [1:48:35] JUDY WOODRUFF, pulling it together. [1:48:36] JUDY WOODRUFF, facts seem to be an important issue here to... or lack thereof tonight, Mark. [1:48:41] And that's... that was also Hillary Clinton's turf. [1:48:43] MARK SHIELDS, U.S.: Yes. [1:48:44] No, that's where she is. [1:48:45] But she can't give a short answer. [1:48:48] I mean, that is a real problem. [1:48:50] I mean, there is a little bit of... [1:48:53] MARK SHIELDS, U.S.: Let me tell you how much I know. [1:48:55] And I not only know the capital of Sweden, but I can tell you what the principal products [1:49:01] of Sweden are and how long Stockholm. [1:49:05] And I think that is... [1:49:07] MARK SHIELDS, U.S.: Yes. [1:49:08] MARK SHIELDS, U.S.: But I have... [1:49:09] Again, there are moments in the debate which I think we can't ignore, and that is, you don't [1:49:14] learn a lot from the tax returns, that I can tell you, explaining why he had his own taxes, [1:49:20] and said, pay no federal taxes makes me smart. [1:49:23] Now, I'm sorry. [1:49:25] I mean, you know, the cops and E-4s and the Marine Corps and schoolteachers and registered [1:49:30] nurses who pay taxes every year. [1:49:32] And I don't know if not paying taxes for the two years that he has on the record is a recommendation. [1:49:39] You know, perhaps it is. [1:49:40] MARK SHIELDS, U.S.: I would agree with you if the Republican debates hadn't happened. [1:49:45] And maybe it's just the Republican audience is different. [1:49:46] MARK SHIELDS, U.S.: I think it is. [1:49:47] MARK SHIELDS, U.S.: But the rules are a little different this year. [1:49:49] And a lot of things where he says, I'm smart, I got away with this, I do think that has some [1:49:52] resonance in a country high in social distrust. [1:49:56] And I do think some of the rules are a little different applying to him. [1:49:58] MARK SHIELDS, U.S.: Of course. [1:49:59] MARK SHIELDS, U.S.: Do you think those respectable Republicans who have come to him in the last [1:50:02] few weeks, I mean, sort of the thoughtful and kind of overlooking it, I mean, do you think [1:50:05] they were made possible tonight? [1:50:06] MARK SHIELDS, U.S.: Right, total squirming, total squirming. [1:50:07] MARK SHIELDS, U.S.: Well, that's and that's... [1:50:08] MARK SHIELDS, U.S.: Yes, and that's really the question, did he pass the judgment test? [1:50:11] But to the point of which, I don't know that he was able to pass the judgment temperament test. [1:50:16] I don't think that that was... [1:50:18] He gets high marks on that. [1:50:19] MARK SHIELDS, U.S.: But on the question about where the country feels that we're going, they're pretty evenly [1:50:23] divided between whether... [1:50:24] And this is the Wall Street Journal poll. [1:50:26] Is our country losing ground or is our country making progress? [1:50:29] 48 percent say losing ground, 45 percent say making progress. [1:50:32] MARK SHIELDS, U.S.: That's right. [1:50:33] MARK SHIELDS, U.S.: Not surprisingly, among white Americans, plus 11, losing ground. [1:50:37] Among non-white Americans, plus 28, making progress. [1:50:40] And so, when you see these candidates literally talking past each other, as you pointed out, [1:50:44] on race issues, on so many other issues about where we're going, on taxes... [1:50:47] MARK SHIELDS, U.S.: Taxes, on temperament. [1:50:48] MARK SHIELDS, U.S.: It's literally, we have countries that are seeing the direction that we're going [1:50:51] in completely different. [1:50:52] MARK SHIELDS, U.S.: I think all three of you were saying before the debate that Hillary Clinton [1:50:56] tonight needed to be more likable. [1:50:59] She needed to... [1:51:02] Mark, what was your term? [1:51:03] She needed to... [1:51:04] MARK SHIELDS, U.S.: At the end of it, say, not a bad egg. [1:51:06] MARK SHIELDS, U.S.: Not a bad egg. [1:51:07] That's the one. [1:51:08] MARK SHIELDS, U.S.: Not a bad egg. [1:51:09] That's the one. [1:51:10] MARK SHIELDS, U.S.: No, really. [1:51:11] I mean, kind of... [1:51:12] MARK SHIELDS, U.S.: Did she... [1:51:13] MARK SHIELDS, U.S.: I'd like to have her in the carpool, you know, or... [1:51:14] MARK SHIELDS, U.S.: But did she do that tonight? [1:51:15] Did that happen or not? [1:51:16] MARK SHIELDS, U.S.: No. [1:51:17] I mean, I don't think... [1:51:18] I mean, I don't think she was unlikable, but she certainly... [1:51:21] MARK SHIELDS, U.S.: What? [1:51:22] MARK SHIELDS, U.S.: There wasn't any point... [1:51:23] MARK SHIELDS, U.S.: What? [1:51:24] MARK SHIELDS, U.S.: At which you got to peek into her, who she is, you know, what makes [1:51:28] her tick. [1:51:29] I mean... [1:51:30] MARK SHIELDS, U.S.: I never hear anybody ask whether Donald Trump is likable. [1:51:32] MARK SHIELDS, U.S.: Oh, sure you do. [1:51:33] MARK SHIELDS, U.S.: Yeah? [1:51:34] MARK SHIELDS, U.S.: Yeah. [1:51:35] I mean... [1:51:36] MARK SHIELDS, U.S.: Yeah. [1:51:37] MARK SHIELDS, U.S.: And he's thoroughly unlikable. [1:51:38] MARK SHIELDS, U.S.: It's not really an open question. [1:51:39] MARK SHIELDS, U.S.: No, I see. [1:51:40] MARK SHIELDS, U.S.: No, I see. [1:51:41] MARK SHIELDS, U.S.: Well, in the Wall Street Journal-NBC poll, to come back to what Amy [1:51:45] was just talking about, he started at 28-59, and he's favorable, unfavorable, and now he's [1:51:51] at 29-60. [1:51:52] MARK SHIELDS, U.S.: We're going to go quickly back to Hofstra University in New York. [1:51:56] Our John Yang is there. [1:51:57] John, you have maybe found a Trump person? [1:51:59] JOHN YANG, U.S.: Hi, John. [1:52:04] JOHN YANG, U.S.: Yes. [1:52:05] We have been talking to some of the Trump supporters here now. [1:52:09] They think that the one point that they have been repeating over and over again is the [1:52:13] point, actually, that he repeated over and over again in the debate was hitting at Clinton [1:52:18] as a career politician, that reinforcing this idea that he's the... that career politicians [1:52:25] like Hillary Clinton are the reason for the problems we're seeing now. [1:52:30] That's been a signature line of his campaign and, in many ways, one reason for a lot of [1:52:35] the support of the campaign. [1:52:36] And that's what we're hearing over and over again from the Trump supporters here tonight. [1:52:40] AMY WALTER, U.S.: In fact, John, that was one of the big lines tonight, which is that she [1:52:43] has experience, but it's bad experience, right? [1:52:46] And so they're picking up on that. [1:52:47] JUDY WOODRUFF, U.S.: Right. [1:52:51] AMY WALTER, U.S.: So, John, thank you. [1:52:52] JOHN YANG, U.S.: Exactly. [1:52:53] AMY WALTER, U.S.: Go ahead. [1:52:55] JOHN YANG, U.S.: Yes. [1:52:56] No, go ahead. [1:52:57] AMY WALTER, U.S.: I was just going to bring it back here and say to David, is that effective? [1:53:01] I mean, is that something that sticks, that he keeps repeating? [1:53:03] DAVID BROOKS, U.S.: I think it does, actually. [1:53:05] If you looked at her, just take him out of the debate, she does look like a queer politician. [1:53:09] She does repeat a lot of things. [1:53:10] She doesn't quite make the human connection. [1:53:13] And in a year that's very unusual, she's not that unusual. [1:53:17] But I thought she did fine and with some devastatingly good assaults. [1:53:22] But, again, as Mark said, he was the subject, and he did negative. [1:53:25] AMY WALTER, U.S.: Well, and that's been the theme throughout this campaign, right? [1:53:29] Whenever the spotlight goes, if it's placed on you, the candidate, you are likely to drop [1:53:33] in the polls. [1:53:34] When the spotlight gets to the other candidate, because this race has just simply been a referendum [1:53:37] on who the worst candidate is, right? [1:53:39] And so, when it goes to the spotlight now on Donald Trump and how much he was on defense, [1:53:44] it's not going to be how well Clinton did as much as how poorly he did. [1:53:47] And if it goes over to Hillary Clinton, then she becomes the focus. [1:53:51] Her numbers suffer. [1:53:53] And at the end of the day, the candidate who wins is the candidate who doesn't get in that [1:53:58] spotlight for the last couple of weeks. [1:54:00] AMY WALTER, U.S.: Let me ask a question about just one big policy issue that he seemed to [1:54:04] land a few blows on. [1:54:05] And that was on trade, where he kind of basically made the point that she had changed her mind, [1:54:10] and he drove that point home. [1:54:12] AMY WALTER, U.S.: He did? [1:54:13] AMY WALTER, U.S.: That was about the issue, not just about the temperament. [1:54:17] AMY WALTER, U.S.: The question I had as he was doing that was, are his interruptions a sign [1:54:21] of strength or obnoxiousness. [1:54:23] But he... [1:54:24] AMY WALTER, U.S.: Right. [1:54:25] AMY WALTER, U.S.: There's no question, he dominated dialect. [1:54:26] She was very much playing defense in the first part there. [1:54:30] AMY WALTER, U.S.: But, as David said, in the first half hour, it seemed to be that he was [1:54:34] getting the better of a couple of points. [1:54:36] AMY WALTER, U.S.: But then, as we moved into the debate, it seemed to me Hillary Clinton felt [1:54:40] more comfortable coming after him and sticking with some of the other things. [1:54:45] AMY WALTER, U.S.: Yes. [1:54:46] She baited him. [1:54:47] There's no question. [1:54:48] The Donald was baiting. [1:54:49] So, I mean, and he did not, in that sense, go after her the way I thought he would. [1:54:54] I thought his own defenses of his positions were really faulty. [1:54:58] AMY WALTER, U.S.: Time for all three of you to ask really quick answers. [1:55:00] AMY WALTER, U.S.: Uh-oh. [1:55:01] AMY WALTER, U.S.: Expectations in advance? [1:55:02] Do they meet your expectations afterward? [1:55:04] AMY WALTER, U.S.: Yes. [1:55:05] AMY WALTER, U.S.: OK. [1:55:06] AMY WALTER, U.S.: I did. [1:55:07] AMY WALTER, U.S.: Mark? [1:55:08] AMY WALTER, U.S.: No. [1:55:09] AMY WALTER, U.S.: My expectations have never been met. [1:55:12] AMY WALTER, U.S.: We may ask you this question again tomorrow. [1:55:15] David? [1:55:16] AMY WALTER, U.S.: It was a kamikaze night for him, so it's not a career-ender, not a campaign-ender, [1:55:20] but not a good one. [1:55:22] AMY WALTER, U.S.: All right. [1:55:23] I think I gave you, like, one word. [1:55:24] AMY WALTER, U.S.: Yes. [1:55:25] But I can say, yes, agree that it was a better night for Hillary Clinton, but it doesn't feel [1:55:29] like it was the defining end-all be-all of this campaign. [1:55:32] AMY WALTER, U.S.: And, hey, we have only got six weeks to go. [1:55:34] AMY WALTER, U.S.: You know what that means? [1:55:35] AMY WALTER, U.S.: Yes. [1:55:36] AMY WALTER, U.S.: We're going to have to come back and do it again right here at this table, maybe October [1:55:40] 4 for the vice presidential debate. [1:55:41] AMY WALTER, U.S.: It's indeed. [1:55:42] AMY WALTER, U.S.: That concludes our coverage of the first presidential debate. [1:55:45] But there's a whole lot more, as we were saying, online. [1:55:48] You can watch highlights, plus see how NewsHour staff, from Margaret Warner to Paul Simon, [1:55:52] as we were saying, and more put what the candidates said in context. [1:55:57] That's all at PBS.org slash NewsHour. [1:55:59] I'm Gwen Ifill. [1:56:00] GWEN IFILL, U.S.: And I'm Judy Woodruff. [1:56:02] And join us right here for the NewsHour tomorrow night. [1:56:04] For all of us at the PBS NewsHour, thank you and good night. [1:56:08] FUNDING FOR THIS PBS ELECTION SPECIAL IS PROVIDED BY THE CORPORATION FOR PUBLIC BROADCASTING AND [1:56:15] VIEWERS LIKE YOU. [1:56:17] THANK YOU. [1:56:39] ELECTION 2016 ON PBS.