Senate Armed Services holds hearing on U.S. Northern and Southern Commands

[0:00] Northcom is the department's synchronizer for counter small UAS activities in the continental [0:04] U.S. and Alaska. Thanks to the counter small UAS authorities provided by Congress and policies [0:10] updated by Secretary Hegseth, the service members along the border defeated 93 UAS that crossed the [0:17] border and posed a threat to our personnel. Assuring our ability to operate in the high [0:22] north is a strategic necessity. With the inclusion of Greenland into the U.S. Northcom area of [0:28] responsibility, we are executing seamless defensive operations across the harsh environment of the [0:33] Arctic, ensuring we are ready to defend the high north anytime and under all conditions. Domestically, [0:40] U.S. Northcom's mission to provide defense support of civil authorities remains a critical [0:45] responsibility, and we stand ready to support lead federal agencies during natural disasters [0:50] and key events, including America's 250 celebrations and World Cup 2026, co-hosted by Canada, Mexico, [0:58] and the United States. [0:59] All NORAD and NORTHCOM missions are reinforced by partnerships. From our unique binational [1:06] relationship with Canada through NORAD, our close cooperation with Mexico, the Bahamas, and now [1:11] Denmark and Greenland, trusted relationships are a cornerstone of regional security [1:16] and homeland defense. The men and women of U.S. NORTHCOM and NORAD have embraced these [1:21] new challenges and are unwavering in their no-fail mission. The discipline and defense [1:27] of our homelands in all domains, from all avenues of approach, [1:30] against all challenges, is a key part of the U.S. Northcom and NORAD mission. [1:31] All those who intend us harm. We appreciate the steadfast support of the committee, [1:35] and I look forward to answering your questions today. We have the watch. [1:40] Thank you very much. General Donovan. [1:45] Chairman Wicker, Ranking Member Reed, and distinguished members of the committee, [1:49] thank you for the opportunity to discuss the posture of the United States Southern Command. [1:54] I'd like to thank the members of this committee for their trust and confidence you've placed in me [1:58] to lead this organization at such a critical moment. [2:01] On behalf of the men and women of SOUTHCOM, Sergeant Major Rodriguez and I, [2:05] I appreciate your continued support. I'm joined today by my good friend, General Greg Guillo. [2:10] We are aligned with the department's focus on the Western Hemisphere. [2:14] We are dedicated to rebuilding U.S. leadership and presence in this critical part of the world. [2:19] Let me begin by saying I've learned a lot in the past 42 days about the dynamic region I'm responsible for [2:27] and the incredible organization I am now leading. [2:29] As this committee knows, last year was a pivotal moment in SOUTHCOM's history, [2:35] the command responsible for multiple priority missions and operations. [2:38] Each with enormous national security implications. [2:43] The SOUTHCOM team rose to challenge while remaining true to its legacy of partnering and collaboration. [2:51] I want to specifically thank the leaders of Joint Task Force Southern Spear. [2:57] This is SOUTHCOM's warfighting headquarters who are leading our efforts against drug cartels and [3:02] terrorist networks with incredible levels of professionalism and precision. [3:08] Now we are ready to evolve for the future. [3:13] The 26th National Defense Strategy lays out the threats we face in this hemisphere and SOUTHCOM's role in addressing them. [3:21] In response, I've developed four imperatives. [3:25] First, SOUTHCOM strengthens hemispheric command and control by redesigning and building the SOUTHCOM headquarters [3:33] for strategic level operations at range, speed, and scale. [3:38] Second, SOUTHCOM imposes total systemic friction on drug cartels and terrorist networks. [3:45] This requires a hemispheric wide approach. [3:47] SOUTHCOM and NORTHCOM help our partners degrade these organizations and reduce the threat they pose to our partners and to our nation. [3:56] Third, SOUTHCOM develops and feels cost-effective, modernized forces tailored for the missions in this hemisphere. [4:05] These forces fully maximize operational maneuver, autonomous systems, and human-machine teaming to greatly increase lethality, [4:14] all-domain awareness, and most importantly, data sharing for U.S. and partner forces. [4:19] And finally, SOUTHCOM denies adversary footholds an undue influence in this hemisphere. [4:26] That includes their ability to position forces or other capabilities that threaten our homeland or our regional partners [4:33] and challenge our access to key terrain like the Panama Canal and its approaches. [4:39] These imperatives and the dynamic security environment we operate in will require the right structures, authorities, and forces to keep pace with mission needs. [4:48] SOUTHCOM is moving out with speed. [4:51] It is an emergency and stands ready to work with Congress to defend our homeland and our hemisphere. [4:57] I thank this committee for their unyielding support to U.S. Southern Command and look forward to our discussion this morning. [5:02] Thank you very much. [5:03] Well, thank you, gentlemen. [5:05] And without objection, the entire statement of General Guillaume, the entire prepared statement of General Guillaume, [5:15] consisting of 21 pages provided to us in advance, [5:21] and the entire statement of General Donovan, again, provided to us in advance, [5:27] consisting of 11 pages will be added into the record at this point without objection. [5:34] Okay. [5:35] Well, General Donovan, tell us how the Maduro effort, [5:42] the removal of him and the installation of his vice president, [5:46] has affected our interests in the area. [5:52] Mr. Chairman, [5:53] soon after assuming command of SOUTHCOM, [5:55] I was directed to take a trip to Venezuela, to Caracas, [5:59] and meet with the current leadership of the Venezuelan government. [6:04] And I will pause just for a second to highlight... [6:06] Who did you meet? [6:07] We met Delcy Rodriguez. [6:09] Okay. [6:09] And a number of her senior generals, the top four, Mr. Chairman, that we speak of. [6:15] But I will highlight for one second the incredible work Ambassador, [6:19] or now Chargé d'affaires Doe, is doing down there as our representative with a small team of [6:23] 10 diplomats. [6:24] The work they're doing with the Venezuelan government is staggering. [6:26] Is the Chargé as high as we'll get down there? [6:29] Chairman, I hope eventually we have an ambassador one day. [6:33] And she was just recognized on the 5th of March as an official Chargé. [6:38] And we raised the flag over the embassy the first time in, I think, nine years. [6:42] So a good moment. [6:43] But we got a chance to meet with the government there, [6:45] highlight our concerns that had developed over time since the Maduro event. [6:49] It was 46 days since that event, so it was a pretty remarkable setting. [6:53] And we laid out what our concerns were. [6:55] And since then, those actions have all been acted on by that government. [7:00] In a positive way, that met with your approval? [7:07] Yes, Mr. Chairman. [7:08] And I think in a classified setting, one specific action against an actor we're very concerned [7:13] about, aggressive action, was taken. [7:15] All right. [7:15] We'll certainly have an opportunity to do that later on. [7:18] Well, tell us then about coordination with the Economic Defense Unit, the intelligence community, [7:24] and the Office of the Secretary of State. [7:25] Thank you. [7:25] Thank you. [7:26] I think, again, we're talking about the importance of strategic capital. [7:27] Can you enlarge on my statement about that? [7:31] Chairman, yes, I can. [7:32] As we look at all the tools available to SOUTHCOM and really our strength remains our ability [7:37] to partner with these allies and partners. [7:39] If you look at the recent America's counter cartel coalition now that we've set up, [7:44] that the Secretary has set up, and that we believe SOUTHCOM will take a key role in, [7:49] we have more tools through OSCE, through EDU to bring to bear. [7:53] So you have the exercises, you have the [7:55] you have even foreign military sales, but we have 17, actually now with Chile, [7:59] 18 key partners that have signed up for the ACCC to be part of this now. [8:04] And now we have more tools. [8:06] Partner nations? [8:09] Yes, sir. [8:10] Partner nations that signed the agreement to be part of the Americas, without apostrophe, [8:15] counter cartel coalition. [8:17] And the EDU and OSCE give us additional capabilities we haven't had in the past. [8:22] Specifically, we can counter other maligned actors like China, [8:25] directly with some economic incentives, Chairman. [8:27] Is OAS being utilized to the extent that it could? [8:33] Chairman, I'll put it this way. [8:35] In 43 days, I have not contacted the OAS yet or really been fully involved. [8:40] That is something I need to do, and I intend to pursue to ensure that we're fully aligned [8:45] or they're full in support of the way forward. [8:47] I think it's an opportunity that we ought to try to enlarge. [8:55] And I say that for the benefit of my colleagues also. [8:57] Let's see, General Guio, how are you working with the Golden Dome team to improve our defenses? [9:05] And particularly, I promised to ask you about Joint Interagency Task Force 401. [9:12] Chairman, I'm working very closely with General Gutlein and his program office. [9:18] In fact, the day after he was confirmed, he flew to Colorado Springs where we outlined [9:23] what I felt were the operational necessities for the Golden Dome. [9:28] And then he agreed to join us. [9:30] We agreed at that time that it, one, aligned with his approach, and two, that he felt he [9:34] could build the architecture necessary to deliver that on time. [9:38] And we also brought General Steven Whiting, who is the commander of U.S. Space Command, [9:43] who was in Colorado Springs, and he was in on the meeting, too. [9:46] And so the three of us left fully aligned. [9:50] Since then, as he's worked with industry and developed this architecture, any time he finds [9:55] something that either the technology isn't there yet or maybe the cost is too high, he [10:00] comes back to me and explains his adjustment, and it confirms that it still meets our operational [10:07] needs. [10:08] I also gave him a general officer that is working as a liaison in his office to ensure [10:14] that there's no separation between the operational requirements and his development of the [10:18] architecture. [10:19] So in short, I think it's a very tight relationship. [10:22] I'm very encouraged by it. [10:24] And I think that we will be able to demonstrate the capabilities that have been advertised [10:30] to us by the U.S. Space Command, and I think that we will be able to do that. [10:37] Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. [10:38] General Donovan, the lethal boat strikes that are being conducted in your AOR are based [10:44] on a still secret directive signed by the president ordering the Pentagon to conduct [10:50] maritime strikes on these alleged drug trafficking boats. [10:54] And the affiliation is with organizations that are still a secret, have not been revealed [11:02] to the public yet. [11:03] Those operations have been going on for over six months, and as I indicated, there are [11:09] 157 killed in action or killed personnel. [11:16] When you came before the committee, you indicated that you would check each one of these operations. [11:21] Have you been able to do that, and what conclusions have you reached? [11:23] Ranking member, before assuming command on 5 February, I actually took a number of steps. [11:31] I'd like to highlight them, if I could. [11:34] First one is I read all the legal opinions. [11:36] I read all the legal opinions tied to these operations. [11:39] Next, I read every single execute order South Com's been given since well prior to Southern [11:45] Spear to ensure that I could link those together so when I stepped into command, I could carry [11:49] out those specific strikes, if required and if they were part of the tactical solution. [11:54] Well, thank you, General. [11:58] What is the metrics of success in this operation? [12:02] Is it the reduction of drugs entering the United States, and by how much? [12:07] Are there metrics involved? [12:08] Ranking member, as I've looked at this over the last 43 days, I cannot stand before you and tell [12:16] you that there's a percentage drop in American deaths inside the United States or a number of [12:22] certain percentage of drugs reaching the United States. [12:26] Looking forward, what we're building is an actual campaign against these cartels [12:30] that will actually look at really more systemically across the board from point of production [12:36] to point of delivery up in the plazas and looking at it more holistically. [12:40] And really, what I'm planning on applying is total systemic friction on these networks, [12:45] and I believe these kinetic strikes are just one small part of that. [12:50] If you look at all the tools available, specifically the tools that will strengthen [12:54] partners so they will have a better economic future in these towns, villages, cities where [12:59] a lot of the production takes place, where these cartels and other nefarious actors like [13:03] China can step in and influence, I believe that's the step in the measure of success [13:08] that those partner nations can actually take. [13:10] And I believe that's the step in the measure of success that those partner nations can take. [13:12] And I believe that's the step in the measure of success that those partner nations can take. [13:16] Can you indicate the chain of command above you? [13:21] Who is immediately above you then all the way up to the very top? [13:24] The Secretary of the War to the President of the United States. [13:28] And do you have contact with the White House directly through individuals in the White House? [13:33] No, Ranking Member Reid. [13:34] So you get all your orders from the Secretary of Defense? [13:39] Those orders are from the Secretary of Defense translated through the Joint Staff and the [13:42] form of execute orders, which are the ones I reference every single one. [13:48] Thank you very much. [13:49] General Guillaume, as I indicated in my opening statement, you have at the orders of the President [13:55] deployed significant forces throughout the United States and you've drawn, the action [14:01] has drawn criticism by many governors, mayors, and also the courts. [14:09] I'm really concerned, though, is looking beyond just what these deployments. [14:13] The Secretary of Defense has set up a response force, National Guard, quick reaction force, [14:20] National Guard, which mobilized within 24 hours and can be sent anywhere at the order of the [14:25] president to quote, quell civilian disturbances. [14:31] All of that adds up to the obvious question. [14:34] The concern that these forces could be used to interrupt the first amendment rights of [14:39] Americans, and particularly they are right to vote. [14:44] You know federal law explicitly bans the deployment of armed federal troops or any armed troops [14:52] to polling places, specifically Section 18 USC, Section 592 makes it a crime punishable [15:00] by up to five years in prison to deploy federal, quote, troops or armed men, which I presumably [15:07] would include ICE, to any location where voting is taking place or election is being held [15:13] unless such force be necessary to repel armed enemies of the United States, armed enemies [15:19] of the United States. [15:21] Other than that narrow legal exception I just described, do you agree that it is illegal [15:25] to deploy the armed forces to polling places? [15:27] Senator, I am aware of the code and I recognize that it is against the law and I would not [15:35] follow an unlawful order. [15:37] And then thank you for noting the exception. [15:40] Thank you very much, sir. [15:42] With that, Mr. Chairman. [15:43] I'm going to take a few minutes. [15:44] I will yield my six seconds. [15:46] Thank you, Mr. Ranking Member, Senator Fischer. [15:49] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [15:51] General Gill, I've appreciated our conversations over the years about the increasingly complex [15:57] and diverse threats that we face to our homeland. [16:01] You are always insistent that improving domain awareness is foundational to protecting the [16:08] homeland because after all, we cannot shoot what we cannot see. [16:13] How are you seeing? [16:14] I'm seeing our ability to detect and characterize threats earlier improve. [16:21] Senator, thank you for your support in those efforts. [16:24] I am seeing immediate improvement. [16:28] We can see at longer ranges with more fidelity and also in a layered approach where one phenomena [16:34] or one system is no longer responsible solely to detect. [16:39] We have backup systems as well. [16:41] And then I also note because of the partnership with the Golden Dome for America program office, [16:46] many of the domain awareness systems that we need for improved NORAD and NORTHCOM detection [16:52] also serve the purpose of Golden Dome and so we're really getting two or three for one [16:57] with many of these systems that are either in development now or being implemented now [17:03] or will be implemented in the near future. [17:05] Yeah. [17:06] I really appreciated your comments about working with General Gutlein on Golden Dome and how [17:13] you are working together to make sure. [17:15] First of all, thank you. [17:16] First of all, that we have what we need in order to protect this homeland and the collaboration [17:23] there will hopefully hold down expenses as well as you each bring forth ideas that are [17:30] necessary. [17:31] So I really appreciate your comments there. [17:35] As we're looking to improve on the threats, do you have anything specific you could say [17:41] in this setting on what you think needs to be improved? [17:44] Senator, I'd like to see continued improvement. [17:47] In the persistence of our ability to detect and track adversaries from seabed all the [17:55] way to space. [17:56] As I mentioned, it's a layered approach and I have confidence in all of the layers. [18:02] But as the adversary grows capability, we need to see them further away from our continent [18:07] than we have in the past. [18:08] And so I'd like to see incremental improvement in reaching out further from our shores to [18:14] ensure that we stay ahead of the adversary as they improve their capabilities. [18:16] Thank you. [18:17] Turning to your role as the NORAD commander, how are the U.S. and Canadian militaries deepening [18:27] their military partnership in the face of greater threats? [18:32] Senator, at the mill-to-mill level, we're working very closely together as we have since [18:38] 1958 when NORAD was established with Canadians and U.S. members side by side in headquarters [18:45] and out in the field. [18:47] Most recently, you may have seen that a combined force of NORAD fighters and tankers, both [18:56] U.S. and Canadian intercepted Russian aircraft north of Alaska that went from the Alaska [19:02] natives into the Canadian natives and then back across. [19:06] And because of the seamless approach that we have from the headquarters on down to units, [19:11] that is fully integrated on the same data links, the same mission planning systems using [19:16] the same. [19:17] Refueling tankers operating sometimes from the same base. [19:21] It's an incredibly tight and I think inseparable relationship that we have to defend North America. [19:29] It sounds like you're evolving and adjusting the relationship to meet the new threats that [19:36] are out there. [19:37] Yes, ma'am. [19:38] We absolutely are. [19:39] And both of our countries are pursuing NORAD modernization capabilities that will make [19:43] sure that we can stay ahead, as I mentioned. [19:46] Thank you. [19:47] General Donovan, what actions is SouthCom taking to increase and leverage partnerships [19:55] to advance our country's interests in the region? [20:00] Senator, we've had an opportunity to meet with almost every leader, my equivalent, the [20:07] MADs or CHAds of the southern countries that were tied to through the CHAD conference we [20:11] had with the chairman here in D.C. and then this Americas Counter-Cartel Coalition. [20:17] Their ask is the same thing. [20:18] They need to see. [20:19] with domain awareness and and really it's key between air domain awareness as [20:24] we believe some of these drug trafficking flows are moving into the [20:27] airspace again and maritime domain awareness to look out over their horizon [20:31] not only for the cartel efforts but really the PRC the Chinese influence [20:36] illicit fishing so really domain awareness is the is the thing they asked [20:40] for more than anything else senator to what extent can lessons from the Joint [20:44] Security Cooperation Group Panama how can those be applied to South comes [20:50] relationships to other countries I think that's an exemplar a senator that we're [20:56] just starting to realize how we could export that to other places in South [20:59] America and the Caribbean and Central America okay thank you very much Thank [21:03] You mr. chairman Thank You senator Fisher senator Shaheen Thank You mr. [21:07] chairman and thank you both for being here this morning and for your service [21:10] to our country general Donovan throughout the past fall this committee [21:16] was briefed several times on ongoing operations in the Caribbean as you've [21:20] heard from senator Reid and when we asked point-blank about plans to remove [21:27] Nicolas Maduro from power in Venezuela we were told both at the cabinet level [21:31] and from senior military leaders that there were no plans to conduct regime [21:36] change and there and yet come to find out the military was in the process of [21:43] conducting rehearsals to remove Nicolas Maduro from power [21:46] so general Donovan now we're hearing President Trump make several comments [21:51] about his intent to remove from power of the current president of Cuba to own [21:58] Cuba and while both Cuba and Venezuela repressive regimes and I don't have any [22:05] sympathy for their leadership they pose no immediate threat to the United States [22:10] so I'm going to ask you very directly are we currently conducting any [22:15] military rehearsals [22:17] that involve seizing occupying or otherwise asserting control over cuba senator u.s southern [22:25] command is not thank you um pardon me is any other command that you know of no senator thank you [22:37] thank you senator reed um general guillo u.s space and satellite tracking infrastructure in greenland [22:45] now falls under your area of responsibility as you pointed out in your testimony [22:49] and i noticed in your statement for the record that in addition to the u.s canada relationship [22:56] through norad you benefit from cooperation with the danish armed forces and with the inclusion [23:02] of greenland in your aor so can you tell us has the united states ever made a request of denmark [23:08] or greenland regarding military cooperation that has not been granted or accommodated by the danish [23:15] and greenlandic authorities no senator we have not i enjoy a very strong relationship [23:21] with the danish chad and every request and partnership opportunity has been fulfilled [23:28] thank you and um in your exchange with senator fisher you talked about the efforts underway [23:35] with canada on norad can you speak a little in a little greater detail to the benefit that canada [23:41] provides us as a partner in norad senator as i mentioned they're fully integrated in in all of [23:49] our operations for norad uh the benefits of that [23:53] i see underway and coming in the future are long-range radar systems that could help detect [24:00] threats at range an interest in joining us in satellite detection capabilities which [24:06] would give persistence and then the purchase of advanced fighter aircraft such as the f-35 [24:11] which would give us lethality to defeat threats further away from our continent so is it fair to [24:17] say that we're safer and stronger because of our partnership with canada yes ma'am in norad for [24:22] sure thank you [24:24] um as you point out in your testimony general guillot drone incursions over the united states [24:31] pose a real threat to our homeland especially over critical u.s military infrastructure [24:37] the ukrainian armed forces have really made progress on both offensive and counter drone [24:42] technology and are as you know are now assisting um in with air defense in the middle east [24:48] can you talk about the lessons that have been learned [24:54] over the last few years as you think about joining military as you think about developing [24:58] counter drone technology yes senator and we're very fortunate as the chairman mentioned to have [25:04] giada 401 which is a newly established organization that looks at the procurement and development of [25:11] counter uas systems which can be passed to combatant commands like ours and others [25:16] first i see that it's it's important to move from a point defense which counter uas in the last few [25:23] years and to more of a regional area because of the longer range and indiscriminate nature [25:28] with which they the adversary has employed these systems also they've helped illuminate that you [25:34] can't have just one or two different defeat mechanisms they have to be across multiple [25:38] mediums everything from denying satellite guidance all the way to first person view and everything in [25:45] between which means that we have to expand our arsenal in in ways that we didn't think two or [25:51] three years ago and we wouldn't have known that without the benefit of the u.s government and the [25:53] benefit of the ukraine thank you and general donovan when i was recently um senator blumenthal [25:59] and i actually were recently in odessa and ukraine and one of the people we met along the way was an [26:04] official from colombia who is was working with the ukrainian armed forces to combat drug cartels in [26:15] this latin america and in colombia specifically can you have are you looking at some of those [26:22] efforts to address [26:23] what you're trying to do in south com to address cartels and the narcotics trade yes senator we are [26:32] colombia after really decades of playing colombia they're a very effective organization and we still [26:37] have very strong military ties and we actually fusion cell in bogota so we continue to learn [26:43] from their their successes they're having against the cartels and and what they're learning is from [26:48] the ukrainians as well correct absolutely senator thank you thank you mr thank you senator shaheen [26:53] senator cotton [26:54] thank you gentlemen for your appearance and for your service general donovan i want to turn to [26:59] the question of cuba i understand that you may not be actively rehearsing an invasion of cuba [27:06] but surely we have plans to deal with any contingency related to cuba i mean there's [27:11] there's a vast cadre thousands of majors and cardinals just sitting around the pentagon [27:15] making plans for every possible contingency in the world it'd be a mass unemployment event if [27:21] we didn't have plans for every potential crisis [27:25] around the world so i want to ask specifically about one potential crisis given the state of [27:31] play in cuba which has never been able to stand on its own two feet it relied for 30 years on support [27:36] from soviet russia and then it was wobbly in the 1990s until chavez's venezuela came to the rescue [27:43] and supported it for the last 30 years are we prepared for any kind of humanitarian [27:51] crisis in cuba the possible flow of refugees or [27:57] civil disorder that may threaten our interests especially if the decrepit corrupt castro regime [28:04] finally falls or flees senator yes we are south come our core task we have a we have an execute [28:11] order to be prepared to support dhs in a mass migration event they would take the lead we would [28:16] follow either at sea or primarily ashore or guantanamo bay where we would set up a camp [28:22] to deal with those migrants or any overflow from a any situation in cuba itself otherwise my other [28:28] core task is to protect the embassy which we are in contact with the embassy every single day [28:32] we had the cda the charge affair hammer in my office about a week ago and we talked about [28:37] what he thought was going to happen in cuba and so we're very much aligned with the diplomats there [28:41] that's my responsibility in cuba the responsibility i have is protecting that that the base and those [28:46] families and u.s americans living on the eastern part of the island so all those together we're [28:51] constantly watching if asked to support a humanitarian event that's what we do actually [28:55] very well also we we're very strong in logistics [28:58] we could move support and supplies if asked to do so okay thank you you've been on the job now for [29:04] a little over a month what's been your assessment of the state of our infrastructure uh in latin [29:11] america especially in the caribbean um has it it doesn't need uh additional support given the fact [29:18] that south com is now a much more active combatant command than it has been in the past the center in [29:24] the last 43 days i learned learned a lot about the budget um at south com and um and looked at the uh [29:30] the governor's budget and the budget of the state of latin america and what we're looking at is [29:33] is i think a lot of those are things like the the national security and the national security [29:37] government and the national security department and the national security department and the [29:40] state of latin america in the state of latin america and the state of latin america they've [29:43] been involved in a number of things and i'm sure you've all heard of them in the past like [29:47] um like one tom and obey and other locations that we're coming back to like in puerto rico [29:51] than areas like sotokano where we have a great relationship with the hondurans [29:55] all all in different degrees need a refresh i'd like to pause for a minute on wong tom and obey i [30:00] operations in the caribbean is is gitmo and so right now we're working for opportunities [30:05] and the funding um and the resources is milcon is it other contingency funds to really figure [30:11] out how to go to those key locations and they become both not just logistics hubs but maneuver [30:15] hubs as we look at going on a consistent counter cartel campaign and or better partners and use [30:22] those hubs for hubs of partnership like we mentioned before how to export some of the [30:26] good things we're doing in panama okay and i i trust that your budget request will reflect [30:31] the needs for those infrastructure upgrades especially at guantanamo bay yes senator and [30:37] and how our budget's structured right now executive agents united states army so we're [30:41] working with the united states army on on looking at that budget structure and then how do we [30:46] actually have a a budget built over time with the right amount of onm to actually make improvements [30:51] and sustain those not just one year shots in the arm but a sustained budget approach that will [30:56] actually let us campaign [30:57] from very effective forward locations thank you um i think your appointment reflects in part that [31:03] southern command is a combatant command not a training command and certainly not a diplomatic [31:09] command and i i think the budget needs to reflect that as well general guillot um as the commander [31:16] of norad uh one of your central missions is the defense of american and canadian airspace that [31:22] depends on a robust fighter force but today's air force fleet is the smallest and the oldest it's [31:28] ever been [31:29] the air force also struggles with low readiness rates for its fighters do you believe that [31:33] northcom and norad would benefit from an expanded fighter force yes senator we would i would like to [31:42] see continued modernization of fourth generation fighter fleet frankly sir we don't need fifth gen [31:49] to defend uh our borders those capabilities are better used overseas where their stealth [31:55] air-to-ground weapons and penetration capability are needed so revamped and [32:00] modernized fourth gen to include f-15 exc uh and select locations [32:06] a would meet all of our requirements good i'm glad you said that i think we need more fourth generation [32:10] fighters as well like at the f-15 exc and for that matter they can be pretty usefull overseas [32:15] once those fifth-generation fighters and bombers plow the road and knock out the air defenses as [32:20] we're seeing right now in iran thank you gentleman joe donovan how many americans are at gitmo right [32:27] now you know senator i'm gonna i'm gonna look at my cheat sheet because as i learned the uh version of iran the air bar Association was beginning [32:27] to see that weapon鄭 you know it was shade that was to the absorb them decades time seems to have lostお [32:28] sender, I'm gonna look at my cheat sheet cuz as I learned theну and i tell you how many u sei one in chief are at gitmo right now . [32:29] I'm going to look at my cheat sheet, because as I learn the... [32:31] I do that often. [32:33] Let me get back to you on it. [32:36] Okay, that's fine. [32:36] I'll let you know. [32:37] I know what we're prepared for if migrants come in. [32:39] I don't have the base structure and what we have down there right now. [32:42] Okay. [32:44] Are the Russians resupplying Cuba now, and how much of a game changer is that, or would that be? [32:55] Chairman, we haven't seen an active resupply of Russians coming to the aid of Cuba from a military perspective. [33:01] I saw a news article about that. [33:03] What we're tracking right now is one destroyer with an accompanying oiler or replenishment ship heading towards Cuba on a port call. [33:11] I believe that oiler is just supporting that ship moving there. [33:14] I don't think it's going to deliver any. [33:15] If it did, it wouldn't have the impact at scale. [33:17] So that's the only event I'm tracking, Chairman. [33:20] Thank you. [33:21] Senator Blumenthal. [33:23] Thanks, Mr. Chairman. [33:24] Thank you both for your service and to your families. [33:29] General Donovan, to your wife, and I understand your two children are Marines. [33:33] Thank them. [33:33] As well, for their service. [33:36] There have been reports of a request by the Pentagon for $200 billion supplemental. [33:44] It seems to me that a supplemental to support a war that the President has never asked Congress to approve as constitutionally required [33:58] without a clear statement of objectives or strategy, disclosure of accurate information about the cost of the war or public hearings [34:06] with relevant officials. [34:08] Would make it a non-starter at this point. [34:14] And it's added to a $1.5 trillion Department of Defense FY27 request and could be misinterpreted or spun as congressional approval for the war. [34:28] Are you aware of the requests made by the Department of Defense, Department of War, for $200 billion supplemental? [34:39] Either of you. [34:40] The Senator, I read it in the news this morning. [34:44] Senator? [34:44] Senator, I'm in the same position as General Donovan. [34:47] Thank you. [34:47] You've been asked, General Donovan, about plans and rehearsals for Cuba. [34:55] Are you aware of any plans to aid non-governmental groups, exile groups, or any other groups in potentially action within Cuba to overthrow this government, or to take over if there is an overthrow? [35:15] No, Senator. [35:17] And are you aware of any plans to help non-government groups, exile groups, or any other groups, potentially, in action within Cuba to overthrow this government, or to take over if there is an overthrow? [35:18] No, Senator. [35:19] Are you aware of any contingency plans to put American troops in Cuba if there is unrest [35:28] there that threatens Americans who are there now? [35:34] Senator, that situation, if it developed a physical security threat to the U.S. Embassy [35:38] or the base at Gitmo, we would put U.S. troops to defend U.S. American lives. [35:43] Thank you. [35:45] As Senator Shaheen has said, I have no sympathy for the repressive regime there, which has [35:52] caused deaths and economic turmoil, but I think we should be informed about any such [35:59] plans if they are made. [36:01] Would you agree? [36:03] Yes, Senator. [36:04] Thank you. [36:07] In terms of the seizure of boats emanating from Venezuela, are those operations continuing, [36:19] General Donovan? [36:22] Senator, Southern Command continues to track the DART fleet. [36:25] Those vessels have been designated carrying illicit oil from or to Venezuela. [36:30] We continue to track those. [36:31] Right now, all in our AOR are actually in port or not transiting. [36:36] There have been a number of engagements called maritime interception operations. [36:40] Some have happened in South Com. [36:42] One has happened in New Com in the middle of the Atlantic, and one has happened also [36:45] in Indo Pei Com in the Indian Ocean. [36:48] So we continue to track those illicit shipping, and when directed, we can conduct interception [36:53] operations. [36:55] To what extent are other nations in the hemisphere aiding the United States in those operations? [37:02] Senator, I do not know if we're getting direct aid in the sense of a tactical action. [37:07] It is all U.S. personnel involved, led by law enforcement, the Coast Guard, but I am [37:13] not aware of other, unless it's intel or information sharing, we depend on partners, but no other [37:18] direct support. [37:19] I do, I will tell you that we, part of our trip to Venezuela was to put pressure on that [37:25] government to let us board two of the ships that they have in port, Pearside, in Caracas. [37:31] They execute the boarding. [37:32] And determined for us to determine what was actually on board. [37:38] During your nomination hearings, I asked you whether you supported releasing various Office [37:44] of Legal Counsel opinions. [37:46] I think there are at least two of them, which right now are classified. [37:51] You deferred to the policy and legal advisors in the Office of the Secretary. [37:57] Now that you're confirmed, I'll ask you again, do you believe that the American people should [38:04] have available or have access to those opinions? [38:06] Opinions that are the legal basis for the administration carrying out the strikes? [38:11] Senator, the department has kept the information, leaves authority. [38:15] I'm just carrying out the assigned tasks. [38:19] Thank you. [38:20] My time is expired. [38:21] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [38:22] Thank you, Senator Blumenthal. [38:23] Senator Ernst. [38:24] Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, gentlemen, and your teams as well, for your exceptional [38:28] service to our nation. [38:31] General Guillaume, I'll start with you, sir. [38:34] I want to start by highlighting the 185th air refueling wing ensued. [38:39] It's in Sioux City, Iowa, which plays a critical role in supporting both global operations [38:45] and homeland defense missions. [38:47] Our airmen are operating the KC-135 tankers, and they do an exceptional job. [38:53] That mission provides essential air refueling, which enables everything from strategic bomber [38:58] operations to fighter alert missions and rapid response here at home. [39:04] This capability is essential to projecting power abroad, while also supporting North [39:09] Com's homeland defense function. [39:13] Ensuring the Sioux City runway renovations are completed is critical to sustaining this [39:18] tanker mission and maintaining the Air National Guard's ability to support combatant command [39:23] operations overseas and contingency response in the United States. [39:29] So, sir, can you speak to the operational importance of maintaining strong aerial refueling [39:35] capabilities in the nation's interior? [39:39] And how critical it is to maintain infrastructure like the Sioux City runway to ensure those [39:43] missions continue to support both homeland defense and global force projection? [39:49] Yes, Senator, I absolutely can. [39:53] But first, I'd say you mentioned the Air National Guard, the National Guard as a whole, and [39:58] the success of the NORAD and NORTHCOM mission starts and stops with our relationship with [40:03] the Air National Guard and the National Guard, to include that of Iowa. [40:07] Thank you. [40:08] I'd say, first of all, that's our lifeline. [40:11] We rely on some very incredible and incredibly capable fighter aircraft. [40:16] But the range and duration is limited, especially when you're defending a vast homeland like [40:24] the United States. [40:25] And so, with every launch of an alert fighter that seems to get more attention, there's [40:30] a launch of one or two tankers to make sure that they can stay on station and flexible [40:35] and mobile to meet the threat wherever it is. [40:38] We could not do our job without the air refueling tankers. [40:43] Thank you. [40:44] I appreciate that. [40:45] And with that, I'm going to yield back my time, Mr. Chair. [40:48] Thank you very much. [40:49] We now have Senator Hirono. [40:54] Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. [40:58] So the picture that is being painted with regard to our ability to engage in any kind [41:09] of an operation in Cuba. [41:12] . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . [41:13] . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . [41:45] Senator, since we do not have that plan, we have a number of tasks for Cuba, [41:53] but since we're not executing any rehearsals for that plan, the number of forces required, [41:59] we have general ideas, but the focus right now is purely on securing Guantanamo Bay [42:04] and the U.S. Embassy to protect American personnel. That is the only [42:07] facts and figures and planning we have underway at this time. [42:09] How long would it take if the president gave an order to seize Cuba because it's a [42:15] pretty unstable situation there now? How long would it take for you to be able to execute on [42:21] that order? Senator, [42:24] I'd have to go through a planning process with the SOUTHCOM team to determine what are the [42:28] actual objectives of the operation to determine what size force would be required, but again, [42:33] we are currently not executing that planning at this time. [42:38] Well, the picture I'm painting, and I don't want to get into an argument with you [42:42] about this, General, but I do think that you're already there, and therefore, [42:47] you're doing a good job. Thank you. [42:47] you're paying attention to what's going on there it doesn't seem as though it [42:50] would take very long for us to execute any kind of a plan there the Southern [42:56] Command has previously worked with USAID on humanitarian aid to Cuba and now that [43:03] this aid has been cut has that not really made your the humanitarian aspects [43:08] of what you're doing with regard to Cuba more difficult secretary as the US State [43:16] Department is restructured in those elements that were USAID in the past [43:20] actually that's a lot of question about this because because I grew up for 37 [43:24] years have operated with state and USAID across the globe there are other [43:28] entities have taken up those those roles inside of the State Department and now [43:32] we are connected to them on the aid front in many ways similar both in [43:37] disaster relief and in planning so we have some of the summer capabilities [43:41] just not the name and we are learning how to actually work together and the [43:45] new structure from the State Department [43:46] general based on the questions from a number of the members of this committee [43:50] you can see that there are definitely expressed concerns about what might be [43:55] in the president's mind with regard to Cuba general yellow I I know you are [44:01] working closely with general girl girl line I don't know if I'm pronouncing [44:07] that correctly on Golden Dome and as you know Hawaii is unique for purposes of [44:12] missile defense with you and an admiral power or shaping [44:16] you and an admiral power or shaping you and an admiral power or shaping [44:17] responsibilities based on the kind of threat being posed in terms of our need [44:24] for missile defense so general good time good line previously committed to me [44:31] that defense of Hawaii will be included as part of global and Golden Dome [44:36] mission missile defense sorry architecture and I just want to get [44:40] that kind of commitment from you senator absolutely the defense of Hawaii from [44:48] ballistic missiles is a responsibility of US northern command and from the very [44:53] inception of our planning for Golden Dome with general good line it has [44:57] included the ability to protect those islands from ballistic missile defense [45:02] and to your comment ma'am on the cooperation with Admiral paparo since [45:06] it's a shared defense of Hawaii between our two commands we've combined our main [45:11] exercises northern edge and Arctic edge to ensure that that it is seamless [45:17] protection [45:18] thank you that's reassuring but general Donovan in in light of what happened with [45:23] the strike on the school in Iran there is a concern that we ought to be doing [45:29] anything we can to mitigate harm to you up to civilians so during your [45:33] confirmation hearing I raise concerns about reports that South come lacked a [45:38] functioning mechanism to receive civilian casualty reports and that [45:43] South come civilian harm mitigation staff have been [45:48] cut from four personnel to a single contractor you had not assumed your [45:54] responsibility at that point and I'd like to hear what steps South come has [45:59] taken to address the issue of mitigating civilian harm and in any of your actions [46:06] senator yes and I did I did that's one of the first things I did to look at our [46:10] our program for not only planning but response to operations and what I found [46:16] as you mentioned for positions we had to be constantly monitoring so we have to [46:18] We had four positions, one I'm paying for out of my own budget to ensure that I do have that capability built as a separate entity. [46:25] Moved the other capabilities into our J-3 fires and kinetic effects, so they're part of the planning cell and part of any investigations post. [46:32] I take it that you are increasing your capacity to be able to mitigate civilian harm? [46:37] Yes, Senator. [46:38] Thank you. [46:38] Thank you, Senator Hirono. [46:40] Senator King. [46:42] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [46:45] General Guillaume, I want to follow up a little bit on Senator Shaheen's questions with regard to discussions, consultations, negotiations with Denmark and Greenland with regard to additional security assets in Greenland. [47:00] Number one, are those discussions taking place? [47:02] And number two, are they productive? [47:04] And number three, are you meeting any resistance to establishing additional security assets in Greenland? [47:11] Senator, we are pursuing with Denmark. [47:16] The expansion on the defense areas, which are allowed under the 1951 agreement, and we've submitted... [47:22] The 1951 agreement is quite comprehensive. [47:25] Yes, sir, it is. [47:25] It's not really... [47:26] We don't really need a new treaty. [47:28] It's very comprehensive, and it's, frankly, very favorable to our operations or potential operations in Greenland. [47:36] And so, working with the Department of State, we have three areas that we would like to negotiate with Denmark and Greenland to see if we could expand... [47:46] the defense areas from Petufik, where we are now, into these other areas, which would help our homeland defense mission. [47:53] And my final question is, are you meeting any resistance? [47:57] Are they being cooperative and receptive to these discussions? [48:00] Senator, very cooperative with both Greenland and Denmark, and very eager to discuss ways to move forward to improve our defense capabilities. [48:12] Let me expand the vision a little bit to the Arctic. [48:15] Do we have sufficient assets? [48:16] Yes. [48:16] I'm worried about, for example, a lack of a deepwater port facility on the Arctic Ocean, whether or not we have... [48:25] Well, I'm sort of almost laughing because of our lack of icebreakers. [48:32] We have about one and a half icebreakers. [48:34] The Russians have 40. [48:37] What are our gaps in the Arctic in terms of our ability? [48:40] Because the Russians are building up their assets on the Arctic side very extensively. [48:45] Senator, our challenges in the... [48:48] In the Arctic start with what you mentioned, ports and the ability to navigate freely through the harsh conditions of the Arctic, both in maritime, land, and air. [49:00] So I'm working with our department and others to try to develop more ports, more airfields, which leads to more options for our secretary and for the president, should we need them up in the Arctic. [49:16] And that is from Alaska all the way across. [49:18] And that is from Alaska all the way across through Canada and into Greenland. [49:20] Final question on this area. [49:24] One of your principal responsibilities is sensing, is knowing what's coming, domain awareness. [49:30] My concern is that a lot of our doctrine and technology, frankly, is geared toward yesterday's threats. [49:39] We're not going to have time if a hypersonic is coming from somewhere in Siberia or somewhere in the Northern Pacific. [49:49] Are we extending our sensor sense further off the coast of Alaska, for example, so that we have more time to assess the risk and to try to defeat it? [50:01] There's a big difference between an ICBM when you have 20 or 30 minutes and a hypersonic is coming at 100 feet off the water at 6,000 miles an hour. [50:12] Can we detect that hypersonic right now? [50:15] Senator, we have the ability to detect the hypersonics now. [50:18] But I agree with you that we need to get the hypersonics. [50:20] We need to get the hypersonics. [50:20] We need to get the hypersonics. [50:20] We need to get the hypersonics. [50:20] We need to get better and see further so we have more decision space. [50:24] And that would require us to move from one phenomenology into multiple. [50:29] We have to have space, ground, surface, and undersea capability to detect all of those threats from further away. [50:36] Well, as you know, we're moving into the defense bill season here at this committee. [50:41] Please let us know what's necessary in that area so that we can be sure that we address it in the defense bill that's coming up in several months. [50:50] Thank you, Senator. [50:52] I will. [50:55] General Donovan, are the SOUTHCOM countries cooperating on this anti-drug mission? [51:01] In other words, are the governments our partners? [51:05] Are they standing aside? [51:07] Are they corrupted by the cartels? [51:09] What's the level of cooperation from the other countries in the region? [51:15] Senator, obviously on the surface, the recent announcement at our headquarters, the America's Counter Cartel Coalition, [51:22] we have eight. [51:23] We have 18 signing members that do want to get at these problems, all with different degrees of capabilities, [51:29] whether that's a functional military or police capability or even a legal system that will actually support getting at these problem sets. [51:36] So really that's the goal of the coalition is to determine how best to help each of those partners actually find the way forward to counter in their location. [51:46] And then the U.S. would play the role maybe as a synchronizer or bring in the capabilities to enhance their capabilities. [51:52] And each have a different degrees. [51:54] But do they have the will? [51:56] That's the real question. [51:58] I guess it varies. [51:59] It varies. [52:00] But, Senator, I've been from that CHOD conference here in D.C. and then the ACCC we had in our headquarters. [52:07] I believe they do have the will and they're looking to follow and really execute operations that could, again, range from local security and improving the lives of their citizens all the way to offensive operations. [52:23] If required. [52:24] Thank you. [52:25] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [52:25] I have a couple more questions. [52:27] I'm quick and follow up after the next. [52:29] Yes. [52:29] We will take another round. [52:31] Senator Slotkin. [52:32] Thank you. [52:33] Thanks to both of you for being here. [52:37] General Geo, you know, I was in the Homeland Security hearing yesterday for the incoming secretary of Homeland Security talking about what he would do if asked to put armed ICE agents at polling locations. [52:54] So could you just state for us very clearly, do you believe that it is legal to put uniformed military active duty at polling locations or any other parts of the voting process, ballot, you know, centers for political purposes? [53:18] Senator, it is strictly illegal to do what you described, putting military at a polling place, [53:26] unless the [53:27] as Senator Reid mentioned, the exception for countering an armed rebellion. [53:32] Right. [53:32] There is an exception for countering an armed force, an armed rebellion. [53:37] We didn't need uniformed military at our polls during World War Two, after Pearl Harbor in Korea, during Vietnam, during the riots in the 60s and after 9-11 when we had been attacked on our soil. [53:52] So and yesterday, the director of national intelligence mentioned in her [53:56] world. [53:57] That mentioned no mention in the worldwide threat briefing of any threats to our election. [54:01] So are you aware of any threats that meet the definition of armed force, you know, countering the United States that would be that would require you to consider deploying to the polls? [54:14] Senator, I'm not aware of any threats at this time. [54:17] And if you were asked to move uniformed military into polling locations without any credible threat reporting of an armed force countering the United States, would [54:27] you send those forces in? [54:30] Ma'am, I recognize that that's against the law and I would not follow an unlawful order. [54:36] Thank you. [54:37] That hits my ears in a an important way since I made a 90 second video with Senator Kelly. [54:45] I met that said uniformed military has a requirement to refuse illegal orders. [54:51] And because of that, we they attempted to criminally indict us in front of a grand jury for sedition. [54:57] So I appreciate the ease. [54:59] I appreciate the opportunity. [55:01] But the question is, what should you do? [55:02] What should you do to protect those who are subject to these kinds of things? [55:06] I'm not sure I'm the right person to answer that, but I think you have a point. [55:08] I think you have a point. [55:10] I think you have a point. [55:11] Senator, with which you say just what should be a very standard thing, what I know you all learn in sort of basic training. [55:17] Let me turn to a very different issue, and that's artificial intelligence. [55:22] You know, there's been a bunch of talk lately about the use of artificial intelligence in military targeting, in the kill chain and sort of the the decisions on life and death. [55:28] And there's also been discussion about domestic surveillance. Right? [55:29] to surveil the American people unless individual Americans have proven a [55:35] threat to US security yes senator that falls under the Intel oversight and I'm [55:41] very aware and we follow all those rules yeah and I think you know the we never [55:47] want our military you know we don't want anyone to be questioning that our [55:51] military is looking at you know Americans as a topic to surveil so do [55:59] you believe that we should have restrictions in place that would just [56:03] say for everybody for the AI companies for any future or current Secretary of [56:08] Defense that you cannot use artificial intelligence for mass surveillance of [56:14] American citizens senator doing so would violate the Intel oversight rules that I [56:22] mentioned and so I support the rules that are in place great and what about [56:26] having a human being in the loop on decisions of life and death you know of [56:31] targeting I think about nuclear weapons right right now there's no law saying [56:39] that you couldn't have artificial intelligence and sort of an autonomous [56:43] system make decisions on the deployment of nuclear weapons what do you think [56:49] about having a human being in the decision tree on the use of lethal force [56:55] senator having a human being on the loop in all decisions I think is important I [57:03] think that we should be making some more than others obviously and every use of [57:09] in artificial intelligence that we use in our command does have humans at the [57:15] appropriate places on the on the loop to make sure that we are making the right [57:19] decision with the right information yeah well I think mr. chairman this is an [57:24] issue that we should on a bipartisan basis take up in the committee for this [57:28] NDAA because I think you know we shouldn't be leaving decision-making up [57:32] with one secretary of defense or administration we need to do our job and [57:36] put some rules of the road in place so look forward to discussing that this [57:40] year's NDAA thank you senator Budd thank you chairman thank you all for [57:44] being here it's good to see you both so general Donovan in your short time in [57:49] the seat how have you seen special operations forces contributing to [57:53] countering the expanding influence of China Russia and other adversaries in [57:58] Western Hemisphere senator thank you the role of special operations forces I think [58:04] we all [58:04] believe that the role is direct action and what we see maybe in the movies the [58:08] reality is the regular warfare and regular warfare options are the strength [58:12] of special operations forces so in the South come when we see those activities [58:16] by PRC or Russia China Russia or other actors it is always the special forces [58:22] that really set the conditions to determine what comes next they're very [58:26] agile mature and we can put them in locations where either in a low [58:31] visibility or an overt capability working with partners directly [58:34] they're really our best first tool to assess the situation and determine the [58:38] way ahead thank you for that let's talk for a minute about soft integration with [58:42] Ecuador if you will so I saw that Ecuadorian and US military forces [58:46] completed a successful operation against terrorist organizations on March 3rd so [58:52] what are some of the success stories of this operation in any lessons learned [58:55] for the broader region the center hopefully in the closed session I can [59:00] provide additional details but the success is that from a phone call [59:04] between president aboa and president [59:07] Trump to moving forces very quickly to partner with our Ecuadorian forces, it was very short [59:13] timeline. Now, that was based on years investment over time of Ecuadorian partnership at different [59:19] types of training events. But the fact that the special operations forces, including both [59:23] ground forces and air forces, could quickly plan with the Ecuadorians to ensure that any use of [59:30] force fell within our requirements. Very impressed on how, again, the Ecuadorians operated on both [59:36] those operations. And in a short period of time, very professional planning, and I took part in [59:43] both, observing both, and I thought very professional execution. General, what's your [59:47] assessment on their willingness in Ecuador and their capability to take a greater role in [59:52] contributing to regional security there? And then what are some other countries in South Com that [59:57] are also leading the way? I would say Ecuador is a primary focus. We just recently established, [1:00:04] Senator, an Ecuador fusion cell. And with the Ecuadorian Minister of Defense, because [1:00:09] you know, we've been working with the Ecuadorian Minister of Defense for a long time, and we've [1:00:09] been working with the Ecuadorian Minister of Defense for a long time, and we've been working with the [1:00:09] Ecuadorian Minister of Defense for a long time, and we've been working with the Ecuadorian Minister of [1:00:09] Defense for a long time, and we've been working with the Ecuadorian Minister of Defense for a long [1:00:09] time. They are leading the way, very similar to the fusion cell we have in Colombia, the one that's [1:00:14] in Mexico City right now. There's different fusion cells in the region. The other nation that is [1:00:19] really stepping forward is Paraguay. Recently signed a SOFA agreement with the United States, [1:00:25] which is a status of force agreement, which allows us to operate much more closely together. And [1:00:31] there's some great opportunities there with air domain awareness. We have an FMS sales of radars [1:00:35] coming down to increase the air domain awareness. So, you know, I think that's a great opportunity [1:00:39] for us to move forward. I think that's a great opportunity for us to move forward. So, Paraguay is [1:00:40] another recent kind of a leader. But I will tell you, the America's Counter Coalition, that is [1:00:46] a counter cartel coalition with 18 members right now, all seem to have different degrees of desire [1:00:50] to move forward very quickly. So, we have a number of partners moving forward at this time. [1:00:54] I appreciate that. General Guillo, it's good to see you. I saw that NORTHCOM and NORAD just [1:00:58] wrapped up Exercise Arctic Edge last week. So, tell us about some of the key lessons learned [1:01:04] from the exercise in terms of NORTHCOM's priorities. And [1:01:08] are there any key lessons learned from the exercise in terms of NORTHCOM's priorities? [1:01:09] And are there areas that you need any congressional support with regarding that? [1:01:14] Senator, Arctic Edge this year, I deliberately moved from the, quote, warm months in Alaska [1:01:21] into the harsher conditions to ensure that we have the ability to generate forces and execute [1:01:27] in the harshest conditions. And so, we learned some lessons about that. The forces in that are [1:01:33] stationed in Alaska are very good at that. But as we brought forces in from the outside, we see that [1:01:37] they need to make sure they have the right equipment, [1:01:40] right viscosity of oil in their generators, and the right procedures to operate on the flight line [1:01:45] to generate, launch, and receive and repair aircraft. The operational focus was on cruise [1:01:52] missile defense. And so, we brought out some cruise missile replicators that gave us a lot [1:01:58] of insights on how we would defend that critical landscape and others from the cruise missile [1:02:03] threat. So, it's a very, very profitable exercise for us. What did we learn? [1:02:10] We learned that fourth-generation fighter aircraft, such as the ones that we have in Alaska, [1:02:14] are very important. And with the cruise missile threat, having aircraft like the F-15E or the F-15EX, [1:02:21] which has longer range, longer duration, and more missiles on board to defeat that threat, [1:02:27] would be critical in the future. [1:02:29] Just quickly, thank you, General. So, I saw that Arctic Edge also was trilateral with [1:02:33] Canadians and the Danes. Why is Greenland important for our national security? And [1:02:37] what was cooperation with the Danes like? [1:02:41] Senator, very briefly, it's because we spent a lot of time looking at our 10 o'clock approach [1:02:46] through Alaska and our 12 o'clock approach through Canada. Having full cooperation on [1:02:51] the 2 o'clock approach through Greenland with Denmark is essential. The cooperation and [1:02:57] the participation by the Danes in special operations, as well as in fighters, was outstanding. [1:03:02] Thank you. [1:03:04] Thank you very much, Senator Kelly. [1:03:06] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. General Donovan, I want to start with Operation Southern [1:03:13] Spear and the continued use of maritime strikes. As of March 9th, the Joint Task Force Southern [1:03:19] Spear has reportedly conducted, I think, about 45 boat strikes, resulting in the deaths of [1:03:25] approximately 156 people. That's a significant number of strikes and casualties in what is [1:03:32] fundamentally a counter-trafficking mission, not a traditional armed conflict. These operations [1:03:39] raise serious concerns and questions about effectiveness. [1:03:43] And a strategic outcome. I want to understand the strategic rationale here. These repeated [1:03:50] boat strikes suggest a tactical approach that may be generating headlines, but it's far less [1:03:57] clear that they are producing durable security outcomes. To me, this operation looks like a [1:04:04] cycle of reactive strikes with limited long-term impact. So, General, what evidence do you have [1:04:11] that this campaign is actually going to be effective? [1:04:13] Actually degrading cartel operations, rather than simply destroying some low-level assets, [1:04:20] boats, and killing some people, and displacing some trafficking routes? [1:04:28] Senator, in the last 43 days, I've looked directly at that. I couldn't provide you, [1:04:34] say, measures of effectiveness of the current effort, but I will share with you that what I've [1:04:39] seen, the reports I've read, talking to partner nations, primarily partner nations that have [1:04:44] talked and had this exact conversation, I think that's going to be a very important [1:04:45] part of this conversation. We've seen changes in the narco-traffickers patterns. And in the [1:04:52] close today, I'd like to provide some more details specifically on that. But I will, looking [1:04:56] forward, Senator, the boat strikes aren't the answer. What we're moving for right now is a, [1:05:03] it might be an extension of Southern Spear, but really a counter-cartel campaign process that [1:05:09] puts total systemic friction across this network, the number of networks. We know there's a number [1:05:14] of cartels involved. We know there's a number of cartels involved. We know there's a number of [1:05:15] cartels involved. We know there's a number of cartels involved. We know there's a number of cartels [1:05:15] involved on four or five different land and sea routes, but putting total systemic friction [1:05:20] from point of production to point of delivery, which would be in the plazas, putting that [1:05:24] together, I believe that actually kinetic strikes will be one of the many tools and probably not [1:05:28] the most effective tool when we actually look at it as more of a campaign approach. [1:05:32] Yeah, I agree. You said it's not the answer. It's not an effective tool. And it's hard to find a [1:05:39] measure of effectiveness here. I get the systemic friction thing, but consider for a second, [1:05:45] General, we moved a battle group halfway across the planet to do this and then had to move it back [1:05:50] for the war in Iran. So I am concerned about a strategic goal here and having the intended [1:06:03] effect of reducing the inflow of drugs into our country, especially when you consider that the [1:06:12] thing where the most significant [1:06:17] downside for the American people is fentanyl. And that mostly comes through the southern borders, [1:06:24] the land borders. And if we would put those kind of resources, when you think about what it takes [1:06:29] to have a battle group there on station, multiple ships burning, a lot of fuel, crew members, [1:06:37] and if you put that kind of resource towards dealing with the fentanyl problem at the ports [1:06:43] of entry, I think that would have a greater [1:06:47] success. [1:06:48] Strategic impact on the overall problem. I got about a minute and 15 left. General Guillaume, [1:06:56] in your written testimony, you stated that Iran's military capability has been severely degraded [1:07:00] by the strikes executed during Midnight Hammer and Epic Fury, but that Iran seems to retain some [1:07:09] capacity to direct reprisal attacks on the homeland through asymmetric means. So how has the war in [1:07:16] Iran altered? [1:07:18] The overall threat landscape to the homeland, specifically as a degradation of Iran's [1:07:23] conventional warfare systems, increased the likelihood of harder to detect asymmetric [1:07:30] attacks like cyber and the potential for homegrown violent extremists. [1:07:37] Senator, approaching the beginning of the operations, I was concerned about cyber attacks [1:07:42] and espionage. I was worried about terrorism and lethal plots. And I was also very concerned about [1:07:48] the missile capabilities where they were being used. And I was also very concerned about the [1:07:50] intent of the U.S. division in making the decision on whether or not that should do with they have [1:07:59] уP begin a space launch vehicle, with the capability, and range, and throw weight that could [1:08:04] be turned into an ICBM and threaten us.certainly, the cyber attacks and the terrorism and lethal [1:08:11] plot, concerns remain and I'm very hopeful that the strikes by CENTCOM will negate the ballistic [1:08:18] missile threat, but we'll wait for the debrief to see if that's actually happened. But I am very confident it will be. [1:08:20] All right. Let's follow up on this in the skiff. [1:08:20] Okay. [1:08:20] after this hearing. Yes, sir. All right. Thank you. Very good. And Senator Scott. [1:08:28] Thank you, Chairman. Well, first off, thanks both of you for being here. Thanks for all the men and [1:08:32] women that served for both of you. My questions today are going to be for General Donovan. [1:08:36] As you know, my state has a large Venezuelan American population, many of whom came here [1:08:40] seeking freedom after witnessing the evils of Chavez and Maduro and his thugs firsthand. [1:08:45] It's clear to everyone that Operation Absolute Resolve was a success thanks to our warfighters [1:08:50] and the decisive leadership of the President and Secretary of War. Today, Maduro and his thugs are [1:08:54] no longer wreaking havoc in our hemisphere and putting American lives at risk by sending deadly [1:08:59] drugs into our country. General Donovan, while I know you could spend a lot of time outlining just [1:09:03] how crucial every person in the unit's contribution was to the operation's success, could you [1:09:08] specifically talk about the 22nd Marine Expeditionary Unit and what they did and their success? [1:09:16] Senator, thank you. When I talk about the 22nd Marine Expeditionary Unit, you have to also talk [1:09:20] about the Amphibious Ready Group that they did. They did a great job. They did a great job. [1:09:22] They did a great job. They did a great job. They did a great job. They did a great job. They did a great job. [1:09:22] They did a great job. They did a great job. They did a great job. They did a great job. They did a great job. [1:09:22] Because that team is an incredible, you know, synchronized joint force that is still on task [1:09:28] today at 12 nautical miles off the coast of Venezuela. And this was key in the visit. I think [1:09:32] I told you, Senator, I traveled to Caracas to meet with that government and our amazing sheriff's [1:09:39] affairs there. Their safety and security is based on that amphibious platform, those Marines and [1:09:44] sailors, 12 nautical miles off the coast with that quick reaction force, but also with a roll two plus [1:09:50] surgical suite. [1:09:51] four ORs, operating tables, ready to respond. That's the only capability we have in the entire [1:09:57] region until we get back to Gitmo, where you have a Navy-based hospital that doesn't have [1:10:02] similar surgical capabilities. So that Marine Expeditionary Unit, and then I will tell you [1:10:07] with a bit of pride, just on about four days ago, we got our first picture of the flag being raised [1:10:13] over the embassy. And when we recognized it as a U.S. embassy again, and those were Marines and [1:10:18] soft teammates around the flag with their ambassador, with their diplomat, the CDA, [1:10:23] putting that flag up. That's what the MUTE continues to do today. [1:10:27] Moving forward, how do you assess the importance of maintaining a continuous amphibious readiness [1:10:30] group presence in South Com? As we look at all, Senator, all the capabilities that were brought [1:10:36] to South Com for Operation Absolute Resolve and other activities, the carrier strike group that [1:10:42] we mentioned before with Senator Kelly, incredible capabilities. But there's a whole joint force from [1:10:47] very clandestine, low-observable aircraft to [1:10:49] high-end destroyer systems, Aegis-class cruisers. The reality is the ARGMU itself, sustaining that [1:10:57] capability in South Com is important because alone by itself, as it operates as a three-ship [1:11:03] group, I call it the Swiss Army knife of the joint force. It can do just about everything. [1:11:09] And as far as a economy of force, it can deliver relief supplies or can deliver a kinetic strike [1:11:14] if it had to. It's the most effective tool we have. The reality is we don't have enough. And [1:11:19] that's why we're here. And we're here to help. And we're here to help. And we're here to help. [1:11:19] That's just, that's a challenge that we, in the 90s, we had what was called heel-to-toe ARGMU [1:11:25] deployments. One went out, one came back. We've dropped our numbers of available ships. And so [1:11:30] we can't do that. We are looking at alternatives that we want to use other platforms like the [1:11:35] littoral combat ship and maybe the expeditionary support base, other combinations that would be [1:11:40] less than what an ARGMU brings to South Com. What are the risks that you'll encounter if [1:11:44] you don't have the assets? If we don't have those assets, and I think about a [1:11:50] really, I think, my most important role is to obviously achieve the mission, but take care of [1:11:55] our joint force team members. If we don't have that surgical suite, if we don't have the long-range [1:12:00] flights for whether it's a kinetic strike or a logistics transport, we just can't operate. [1:12:06] It goes back to also looking at our bases in the region that hadn't received a whole lot of [1:12:12] upkeep over the last decades. And whether that's, again, reopening and taking part in operations in [1:12:19] Puerto Rico. And the Puerto Rican government has been amazing. The Puerto Rican National Guard has [1:12:23] been the backbone of a lot of operations. But are we going to stay? If we are, are we going to invest? [1:12:28] The same thing in Guantanamo Bay and other locations like Sotocano, Honduras. Great [1:12:33] relationships, great support. But are we up to speed to be able to operate without those key [1:12:37] heavier assets? And that's what we're looking at right now, Senator. [1:12:41] Can you talk about the importance of Homestead Air Force Base? [1:12:44] We believe Homestead is, I believe, it's a key location, especially for high wing. If we have [1:12:50] big wing, autonomous ISR type platforms, specifically as we look at really bringing that [1:12:55] machine human teaming with what we could launch there and sustain over, especially the Caribbean, [1:13:01] would be key to any, our plans to really develop a, almost an autonomous maritime domain awareness [1:13:07] and really go seabed to space. But I think Homestead plays a key role in that. [1:13:12] Thanks, both of you and the people you work with. [1:13:23] Thank you. Senator Gillibrand. [1:13:25] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [1:13:31] I think we have a lot of concerns about how the targeting was done, how the choice of the first [1:13:38] Iran attack that hit a girls' school took place. And we need to have a bipartisan hearing discussion [1:13:49] and legislation about the use of AI, whether it's used, when it's used, how it's used. We don't have [1:13:56] any details about that strike, whether AI was used in targeting. We obviously need to know that. But [1:14:02] to learn from both of you and i know that um senator slotkin covered this and you said that [1:14:07] currently no ai is being used for domestic surveillance and you said that ai is not using [1:14:17] in decision making for a kinetic attack so i'd like to have a commitment from you that you will [1:14:24] not use ai for decision making and making the final decision about whether to an attack a [1:14:32] location to strike a location and use lethal force and second i want a commitment from both [1:14:37] of you that you will not be using ai for any domestic surveillance in your aors senator to [1:14:45] the first i will make all decisions at my authority or it will be to someone who has legally [1:14:51] delegated the authority it will be a human and then we will not use uh we will not surveil [1:14:57] u.s citizens general donovan senator we will not surveil u.s citizens and as as you were [1:15:05] speaking senator we were involved in the process last night the targeting process there were only [1:15:10] humans involved the data was helping us make decisions and in a closed setting i'd like to [1:15:15] share with you watching these these young americans make really hard decisions they made the right [1:15:19] decisions in the end i'm aware that our service members are trained to the highest standards [1:15:26] for targeting in warfare i know that our service members follow the law of war i understand they [1:15:31] follow all the geneva conventions and i have great faith that they will continue to do so [1:15:35] i'm deeply concerned with general with secretary hegseth's decision making with regard to [1:15:41] undermining the personnel and department whose job is to protect civilians and to assure [1:15:50] compliance with those laws of war i'm deeply concerned about secretary hegseth's rhetoric [1:15:55] saying that we need a lethal force and we don't need these types of protections [1:15:59] i'm deeply concerned about his firing of senior counsel and jags throughout the services [1:16:06] those are some of the best trained men and women we have to make sure our war fighters have the [1:16:11] tools advice and guidance that you need to fight wars consistent with america's values [1:16:16] so i'm deeply concerned how those protections will be eroded and so i'd like your commitment [1:16:23] that those protections will not be eroded under your command senator they they will not be eroded [1:16:31] and uh just to illustrate the uh jag and our command is uh integrated into all of our activities [1:16:38] and is in fact sitting behind me right now thank you general donovan very similar senator um [1:16:45] they will not be eroded in u.s southern command thank you um i'd like to turn to the issue of uh [1:16:52] you uas's um when we had uh mr livson here uh i asked him about the requirements the dod pushes [1:17:01] down to dhs when it allows dhs to use dod counter uas systems and whether that included [1:17:09] requirements for coordination with relevant agencies um he said that the policy just defers [1:17:15] to northcom on this question so general gyat i'd like you to talk to us a little bit about [1:17:21] what requirements including for inter-agency coordination do you pass down to dhs in order [1:17:28] for them to take possession of the systems and i asked this in the context of the recent drone [1:17:33] drone incursion over one of our military bases that was just reported on today senator when the [1:17:41] counter uas laser system was temporarily transferred from our department to dhs [1:17:48] jtf southern border which is the organization that was operating the laser [1:17:53] told dhs that it was they would do the training but any coordination must be through [1:18:00] that their department because it's operating under 124n [1:18:04] which is a code that we do not have experience with or understand we operated under 130i [1:18:11] um because we are the third largest organization in the country uh i think the the crf did a [1:18:15] lot of work to get this department under control we have we have a history of more and more [1:18:18] aircraft and i want to make sure that the работать with our for the recovery from [1:18:21] the uas system is that um we appreciate the hard work of the commander-in-chief he has [1:18:24] done in that area but i think there has to be some sort of coordination right i think [1:18:29] that the coordination has to be a lot bigger than that uh we understand that there has to be [1:18:35] massive coordination and i think that our coordination with faa with dhs with others [1:18:40] uh was strong before but this highlighted a an area that required improvement and we have addressed those since then [1:18:43] I want to follow up a little bit on the counter UAS topic that began with Senator Shaheen and a [1:18:51] little bit now with Senator Gillibrand and talk to you General Gil. First of all, though, let me ask [1:18:56] a question. I guess this also came up under Senator Shaheen. With regard to Canada and their [1:19:04] involvement and their role and their partnership, and I agree with everything that she asked and [1:19:09] everything you said, but one question that I've been thinking a lot about is one of the [1:19:15] encouraging things in the new administration in Canada, I think, and I've met the Prime Minister [1:19:20] on a couple of occasions, is their commitment to put more of their own resources into their [1:19:26] own defense, and he made the 2% pledge. But we've gotten kind of used to pledges that [1:19:32] aren't fulfilled by certain countries. Is there evidence, pretty solid evidence, that they're [1:19:39] acting on that? [1:19:40] Commitment to get to 2% or greater in their defense budget? [1:19:45] Senator, like in our system, you know, it takes a while for the procurement and the [1:19:51] employment, but everything I'm seeing at my level is full commitment to include exchanges with our [1:19:58] F-35 base at Eielson, where we're bringing their pilots and maintainers in to learn how to operate [1:20:04] fifth generation in the Arctic, air defense, radar, and satellite discussions. So everything [1:20:10] I'm seeing at NORAD is full commitment and full eagerness to expand. [1:20:16] I appreciate that validation. It's my observation as well, but I don't see it as closely as you do, [1:20:22] so that's very encouraging. So thank you for that, and I think it's important for us all to take note [1:20:25] of that, that commitment. So with regard to the unauthorized incursions of UAS into, [1:20:35] particularly over our bases, and the use of counter UAS, [1:20:39] one of the things to address that threat in my part of the world is, of course, [1:20:44] that the ACC has named Grand Forks Air Force Base as their point defense, as a point defense [1:20:50] battle lab. In fact, I think I'm going out there in a couple of weeks to cut a ribbon [1:20:55] on that, and the whole PDBL is ACC's designated organization to assume that, you know, [1:21:02] the tactical, the experimental training, you know, just helping us, but to better inform [1:21:09] policy as well as decisions on the spot. But I'd also just add to that that Colonel Rozelle is at [1:21:16] the 319th, the reconnaissance wing at Grand Forks, really is well-postured and able to leverage [1:21:24] industry contacts over at Grand Sky, which is an enhanced use lease UAS park with big and small [1:21:33] and innovative industries. Maybe you could just elaborate a little bit on [1:21:40] the role of all the above. It seems to me this is not just an all of government or an all of [1:21:46] joint force, but an all of innovation challenge that needs to be dealt with. Maybe you could give [1:21:54] me, you know, your take on how you see it all coming together. [1:21:58] Senator, it's certainly a mission area that has expanded greatly over the last couple of years. [1:22:04] Our command was named the department synchronizer with, not only within our department, but within [1:22:10] the inner agency. And then they also established GIATA 401, which has been a fantastic organization [1:22:16] commanded by General Matt Ross. Yes. [1:22:20] Who has done a great job of getting with industry and bringing in a lot of the legislative [1:22:26] requirements that combatant command is not equipped to address. So teaming with them [1:22:32] and installations such as Grand Forks, we see, we have, and also, sir, with this body, your committee, [1:22:40] helped us last year with four authorities that we needed to ensure [1:22:46] that we could effectively employ UAS's to defend installations and one of those [1:22:52] was to allow us to exchange information with local and state capabilities with [1:22:58] our departments capabilities on the base and that is has since been addressed and [1:23:04] I think it's just going to get stronger and stronger and more necessary to tie [1:23:08] instead of single-point counter UAS capabilities into a network that [1:23:13] extends beyond bases and into cities and communities in this higher education [1:23:17] play some role in the in some of the institutions that have those kind of [1:23:20] capability research capabilities I'm start to higher education absolutely we [1:23:24] work with the University of Arizona University of Texas El Paso and many [1:23:29] others that have great systems that use common off-the-shelf capabilities that [1:23:34] we can spread very quickly thank you very much thank you chairman. [1:23:38] Thank you Senator Crenshaw. [1:23:39] Mr. Kramer, Senator King. [1:23:41] Thank you, Mr. Chair, and General Donovan, the National Defense Strategy lists the Western [1:23:47] Hemisphere as the most important region for national security, and I actually am very [1:23:52] supportive of that recognition. [1:23:55] I have some real concerns about the legality of the boat strikes in international waters [1:24:00] and the legality of the Venezuela operation, and as you and I have talked before, I also [1:24:06] worry about a U.S. posture that suggests that the attitude toward the region should [1:24:12] be a kind of an updating of the Monroe Doctrine, because having lived in Latin America, that [1:24:18] really lands badly in Latin America. [1:24:21] It suggests the U.S. will be a dominator rather than a partner, and what nations want is a [1:24:26] partner not a dominator. [1:24:28] But still, I think the escalation of the priority of the Western Hemisphere makes a lot of sense [1:24:33] in your discussion of things like this counterterrorism. [1:24:36] I think that's the kind of thing I think we should do more of, but here's a challenge. [1:24:45] Every year, the SOUTHCOM posture hearing involves the COCOM saying they're under-resourced to [1:24:51] do the more modest mission we've been expecting of them, and now the NDS suggests that the [1:24:57] mission will become even more important. [1:24:59] I think Senator Cotton, when I was at another hearing, asked you some resource questions. [1:25:04] Let me ask a different question, which is about... [1:25:06] Let's talk about sort of the structure of the SOUTHCOM HQ and operation. [1:25:11] Do you have the current structure that you need to take on effectively this mission of [1:25:18] increasing importance? [1:25:19] Senator, thank you. [1:25:22] No, we do not. [1:25:23] And in 43 days, I realized the strength, I knew it all along, the strength of SOUTHCOM [1:25:29] is that partnership and the relationships throughout the region. [1:25:32] I found out a couple of things that right now, currently, because of over the years, [1:25:36] maybe how SOUTHCOM is viewed. [1:25:37] Some will say economy of force, whatever it was, we ended up with a one-third military, [1:25:44] one-third GS, government service, one-third contractor headquarters. [1:25:49] It's not sustainable. [1:25:50] And so I think of almost like a two-layer cake now, Senator, that the base layer of [1:25:54] security cooperation, we do some great things, and that is really the strength that enables [1:25:59] everything else. [1:26:00] To be at that next level, and we'll call it that kind of hemispheric approach, be able [1:26:04] to partner better with NORTHCOM. [1:26:06] That layer of the cake is not enough. [1:26:07] Thank you. [1:26:07] Thank you. [1:26:08] And so that's what we're working on right now. [1:26:10] We want to make the base layer strong to do what it needs to do. [1:26:13] We'll find the right balance of people, the right talent, to be able to actually function [1:26:18] as a geographic command and not at the low tactical level. [1:26:22] We have elements that can do this, but actually the adjacents to be that good partner with [1:26:27] the partners in the region. [1:26:28] And then also, how do we actually, I would say, compete for resources on an equal level [1:26:33] to other geographic combatant commands. [1:26:35] What I have found, though, Senator, is that right now, we're in a position where we're [1:26:37] the budget resources comes from an executive agent which is the united states army because we live [1:26:42] on an army army compound so it's an interesting look at this is that do i expect the army then to [1:26:48] fund uh campaigning in south america they're not structured to do so there's a mismatch here [1:26:52] senator well you're 43 days in so you're not at the end of this analysis and decision about what [1:26:59] the right structure would be but obviously we want to be in dialogue with you so that the committee [1:27:05] can do the right thing to elevate the importance of south com to where it needs to be given the nds [1:27:11] a question about the the boat strikes i have reviewed the all the material available to [1:27:18] congress on each of the strikes current through last week so there might have been one or two [1:27:23] that i haven't looked at and i would encourage my colleagues to do the same the last time that [1:27:28] i got briefed about the targeting criteria which was a classified briefing was in december do you [1:27:34] know whether the [1:27:35] targeting criteria with respect to the boat strikes and international waters have changed [1:27:39] or not since december senator i do not believe it's changed it hasn't changed since i took over [1:27:47] but i haven't seen any changes since we're still using the same process of near certain reasonable [1:27:52] certainty reasonable certainty near certainty to make the final decision right well i don't want [1:27:56] to get into this more and open i may ask another question in classified um general guillot you've [1:28:02] been asked some questions i think the chair asked you about giada 401 you were going to talk about [1:28:06] the uas issues and you were just engaging with with senator jill renner on uas issues [1:28:12] and we had a really good discussion about it i think the giada 401 matt ross i i i think it's [1:28:17] now sort of in a a good place that's giving the committee some confidence about it however the [1:28:21] confidence that i have is about the aerial concern i'm starting to get more and more worried about [1:28:26] surface and marine uncrewed um weapon systems that could do damage to ships and port and other [1:28:33] assets that we have talk a little bit about from the northcom [1:28:36] space what are you doing to make sure that we're really appropriately assessing and guarding [1:28:40] against other uncrewed systems other than the aerial systems senator i share your concern [1:28:47] and uh i think uh general ross would tell you that we look at uh unmanned systems as opposed to aerial [1:28:54] more more frequently i really would like to learn from admiral cooper and centcom and some [1:28:59] of the work that he has done in his present position but also in a previous position when [1:29:03] he was the fifth fleet commander there where he used uh uh you knowdriving dollars um or sometimes [1:29:05] to get started with like telling you that are very high cost but [1:29:06] we still have to more often have to do uh a lot of pressure um and most of the time sometimes [1:29:07] unmanned detection systems and defensive systems in and around ports there in the Middle East. [1:29:13] So I think you'll see that as becoming an increasing focus of ours to the point where [1:29:20] sometimes you don't say UAS anymore, you just talk about unmanned systems. [1:29:23] Yep. Thanks so much. I yield back. [1:29:26] And thank you very much, Senator Banks. [1:29:28] General Guillaume, can you talk more about what we want in Greenland? I mean, as I understand it, [1:29:34] the agreement is that, the unofficial agreement is that we would have more troop presence, [1:29:41] more bases, Golden Dome presence there, and then kick the Chinese out. I mean, [1:29:49] is that accurate? What more do we want? [1:29:51] From my perspective at NORAD and NORTHCOM, Senator, what I want is the resources and the [1:29:58] force projection capability along that avenue of approach to North America, which, you know, [1:30:04] through the Arctic is... [1:30:05] is our most, the shortest route, so therefore, in many ways, our most vulnerable route. [1:30:11] We're very well established in Canada and Alaska, and having more capability along what I call the two o'clock approach [1:30:17] would be key. Space systems to enable Golden Dome, [1:30:20] the ability to launch fighters and tankers to be the first line of defense against cruise missiles that could be launched from the [1:30:28] Arctic, and then also having soft and ports for [1:30:33] soft presence and then, [1:30:35] for irregular activities, and then port presence for our Navy, which also gives us a Golden Dome and ballistic missile defense capability. [1:30:44] Can you give us some context, though, on what we have now and what this agreement that President Trump is negotiating would allow us to do that we can't do currently? [1:30:52] Yes, Senator. What we have now is access to the Pacific Air Base, which is at the northern part of Greenland, which gives us some of the fighter and tanker capability and a lot of space capability. [1:31:04] But we don't have a lot of space. [1:31:05] We don't have a permanent presence for the soft, and then we don't have a permanent presence for some of the maritime capabilities that I need, and that's what we're working with Denmark to get more access to. [1:31:16] It sounds like Denmark and Greenland are willing to give us that. [1:31:18] They've been very, very supportive partners. [1:31:20] There's been a lot of noise about this, a lot of politics about Greenland, [1:31:23] but it sounds like these negotiations are productive and could lead to a place that would leave America better off. [1:31:28] Yes, sir. They're very productive, and the need there is very real. [1:31:32] Thank you. [1:31:34] General Donovan, [1:31:35] can you talk more about, [1:31:37] Senator Kaine was talking about what some of us would call the Trump corollary to the Monroe Doctrine and what that means in the national security strategy. [1:31:46] And specifically, I'm curious, what does that mean to Cuba? [1:31:51] I mean, what would happen if the Chinese were kicked out of Cuba? [1:31:54] Would we be better off for that? [1:31:56] Is that an accurate way to interpret the Trump corollary? [1:32:01] Senator, I'm not tracking a heavy presence of China in China. [1:32:07] I'm tracking a heavy presence of China in Cuba at this time. [1:32:09] Our focus, again, remains on our core tasks of protecting the embassy and our operations in Gitmo. [1:32:15] So I'm not tracking any specific China, unless you have some of the smaller maybe intel collection-type capabilities that we believe are there. [1:32:21] But that's all I'm tracking at this time. [1:32:23] Have there been public reports that there are Chinese intelligence facilities in Cuba? [1:32:30] Yes, there have been reports of that. [1:32:32] And again, the collection of the locations. [1:32:33] And the department's 2025 China military power report indicates that China has, like, one or two military facilities in Cuba. [1:32:35] And the department's 2025 China military power report indicates that China has, like, one or two military facilities in Cuba. [1:32:36] And one of those facilities in Cuba. [1:32:38] And another mail crossing facility is that China has likely considered military basis吉what [1:32:59] Yes, as you mentioned, the bigger concern is that collecting capability that close to U.S. shores. [1:33:04] Not very robust, but still there. [1:33:05] So unpack for us what the national security strategy means, then, vis a vis Cuba. [1:33:08] in South America, how are we countering them from different degrees of capabilities you bring? [1:33:13] I think most of those would be economic, and most of them would be partnerships to enable our [1:33:18] partners to identify the threat. That's why maritime domain awareness becomes a big peace [1:33:23] force so that our partners can see over the horizon, whether that's seeing drug traffickers [1:33:28] or seeing illicit PRC Chinese fishing fleets, both same, same, so they can actually make better [1:33:34] decisions, and we're there as a better partner. Would you say the national security strategy is a [1:33:39] warning to China not to think about it, stay away, or we'll do something about it? Absolutely, [1:33:45] Senator. Good, I like that. China's nuclear-powered guided missile submarines threaten the U.S. [1:33:51] homeland. How important is it that we detect those Chinese submarines before they enter U.S. waters? [1:33:57] Senator, it's of the highest importance, and I have asked for, and the Navy is certainly supportive [1:34:03] of, [1:34:05] increased undersea detection capability, both the Atlantic and the Pacific, to ensure that we [1:34:10] detect threats to our continent further and further away. Thank you. I yield back. [1:34:16] Thank you, Senator Peters. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. General Gill, the war with Iran has [1:34:25] already led to state-sponsored cyber attacks here in the United States. In fact, [1:34:31] a pro-Iranian hackers attacked a Michigan-based medical device, [1:34:36] and the company just recently, as I'm sure you're well aware of. But in addition to cyber attacks, [1:34:42] I think it's, certainly it's not unreasonable to assume that Iran is also working hard to initiate [1:34:49] us here in the homeland as well. Obviously, your command, NORTHCOM, plays a critical role in [1:34:59] deterring and preventing these kinds of kinetic and cyber attacks through your [1:35:03] defensive operations, intelligence sharing, and integration with cyber command. [1:35:09] But I just want to get your sense, generally, given the setting that we're in right now. [1:35:15] But generally, how do you assess this risk? [1:35:17] Senator, I think you described it very well. Or I shared the description that you gave, is that [1:35:25] their cyber capability is real, and it is significant, and they have the ability to find what [1:35:32] they think are the weakest points in our cyber defense, which unfortunately are some of the [1:35:38] critical infrastructure that we're dealing with right now. And so, I think it's important that we [1:35:40] have across the U.S., and I think that they're vulnerable to, remain vulnerable to Iranian attacks. [1:35:46] So, we have CISA and other groups associated with homeland security and others. [1:35:54] Your relationship with them, I know you do cooperate on a regular basis, but we've also seen that [1:36:00] about a third of the cyber professionals at CISA were basically removed from the department, [1:36:06] kicked out, or took rifts. And they are not able to do [1:36:11] what they were able to do in the past. Are you backfilling that, or do we have actually an enhanced [1:36:17] cyber vulnerability now? [1:36:18] Sir, I don't think that we have an enhanced vulnerability right now, but it does take strong cooperation [1:36:26] between our command, Cyber Command, the FBI, and CISA to ensure that we share information on [1:36:33] potential attacks and ensure that we're covered to the best degree possible. [1:36:38] But your command is on heightened alert for all of these? [1:36:41] Absolutely. [1:36:41] Yes, sir. [1:36:42] Good. [1:36:42] There's been some discussion about Greenland by some of my colleagues. [1:36:48] I was on a recent trip up there, and we were at Bdufik, which is an incredible facility. [1:36:53] Completely dark when I was there, about 750 miles north of the Arctic Circle. [1:36:59] But clearly an important strategic position for us there. [1:37:05] A couple of things related to that trip. [1:37:07] When we were there, the folks in Greenland were incredibly anxious. [1:37:12] They were angry that the United States, the rhetoric coming from this administration was that they were [1:37:18] either going to be purchased, which they were pretty clear to tell us that they cannot be bought, or they [1:37:23] were going to have a military invasion. [1:37:27] In fact, when I was there, they talked about a power outage that they had in Nuuk in the capital city there. [1:37:34] And everybody was in fear that this meant the Americans were invading. [1:37:39] Children were highly distressed. [1:37:41] They didn't go to school. [1:37:42] Which is pretty outrageous that an ally believes that when power goes out, that means U.S. troops are invading. [1:37:49] It's a pretty horrible situation that we're in right now. [1:37:52] Some of the comments that I heard from people were highly emotional and felt betrayed by the United States. [1:37:59] So tell me, what are you doing in your command to try to work with our ally and get past what was a pretty horrible situation for them? [1:38:08] But I've often found that, which I think is true in life. [1:38:12] If you breach someone's trust, it takes a lot of work to get that trust back. [1:38:17] How are we, or you in particular, with your command, because I know you care a lot about Greenland, how are we going to regain this trust? [1:38:26] Senator, I would try to maintain the trust that we've established with both Greenland through our military operations and with our partners in Denmark [1:38:37] by being open and transparent and seeking new and improved ways to partner together. [1:38:44] And we've done that. [1:38:45] Even since your recent visit and with Noble Defender, an exercise that had traditionally been only NORAD forces, we partnered with Denmark for the most recent, Noble Defender. [1:38:59] And then for our Arctic Edge exercise, also including Denmark, which is the military presence that Greenland has. [1:39:07] So being open, transparent, and exploring opportunities where we can partner together is where I want to show that we are valued. [1:39:14] Thank you. [1:39:15] And it's a very, very good thing that you are a valued partner and can be trusted. [1:39:18] And I think that we've been very successful on that. [1:39:20] Well, if I may, Mr. Chairman, just briefly. [1:39:22] Certainly that is good. [1:39:24] And when I talk to the military, especially the Danish military, that relationship is still there. [1:39:29] That wasn't where the problem was. [1:39:31] Where the problem is is with the people who are not part of the military. [1:39:35] And I would just hope that as you continue these kinds of efforts as you just described, that's actually communicated to the general populace of Greenland. [1:39:43] Because that's where the trust lies. [1:39:45] has been has been broken and where the work is really going to be necessary yes senator thank [1:39:51] you thank you senator peter senator sullivan thank you mr chairman and uh gentlemen thanks for your [1:39:56] service and to your staff and team members thank you as well general gee i want to appreciate the [1:40:03] meeting in my office yesterday i i uh talk about this chart a lot by the way this chart's actually [1:40:09] running out of room now these are all the russian and chinese incursions into the arctic into [1:40:15] the alaska aor that you and the indo pay comp commander are both responsible for [1:40:22] um the tempo as i mentioned is increasing we're out of room here we've had two russian bear bomber [1:40:28] incursions in the last three weeks the last one uh in our response which was uh norad we launched [1:40:37] nine assets two f-16s two f-35s and awacs and i think four or five tankers now you know when [1:40:46] these make their way into the air we're going to have to make sure that we're going to have to [1:40:47] make sure that we're going to have to make sure that we're going to have to make sure that we're [1:40:47] going to have to make sure that we're going to have to make sure that we're going to have to make [1:40:47] the news they never make the news down here by the way in alaska they make the news but you know [1:40:52] we say oh the russians came into our airspace we intercepted them but these are highly complex [1:40:59] high-risk missions dangerous our uh airmen guard reserve active duty they do a great job [1:41:09] but can you explain a little bit of the danger and complexity [1:41:13] i'll bring up a map here um you know we're launching from jay bearer eielson [1:41:18] i mean how far are our f-16s and f-35s flying just to intercept the russians before they [1:41:25] cross into our aides senator you're absolutely right it's a the picture of our fighters next [1:41:34] to their bombers you know looks very uh harmless and and very easy but especially from alaska with [1:41:41] the distances and the harsh environment uh make it very complex when they get the alert klaxon [1:41:47] to scramble from either eielson or elmo [1:41:49] dorf they know that they're probably going to have to fly 15 1600 miles uh from the nearest [1:41:56] suitable concrete to land if they have an emergency just to intercept the rush to intercept [1:42:01] them just to get that's only halfway through the mission right 1500 miles yeah not even halfway sir [1:42:06] because they'll they'll intercept them then they'll uh escort them for the duration of their [1:42:12] period then they have to fly fly back so these missions are often six to eight hours in flight [1:42:20] and they have to wear the gear that has to accommodate if they eject and survive and so [1:42:25] they're in it's 50 below zero in alaska that's right so they're their cockpits are comfortable [1:42:30] but they have to wear the gear in case they have to leave the cockpit in an ejection uh these are [1:42:36] some of the most challenging and uh uh really brave missions that that we can do so i want to [1:42:43] commend our alaska-based military they're doing a great job how many tank how many tanker top-offs [1:42:50] that entail if they go to the uh extent of the illusions or up into on the north part of your [1:42:56] map there i would say a minimum of six air refuelings often at night yeah in that cumbersome [1:43:01] gear uh and which gives me just a second to point out that the tankers and the awacs are also up [1:43:06] there to make sure uh that that we can complete the mission along with the fighters so a couple [1:43:11] other quick things thank you for that and uh and again i want to thank them our military so let's [1:43:17] say you're doing an intercept up here arctic ocean [1:43:20] you're in an f-16 you lose an engine in february in the middle of night how's that gonna play out [1:43:29] for that pilot f-16s have one engine right they have their single engine uh if they have any [1:43:35] engine indications hopefully you know that i know they will be heading back over land so if they do [1:43:40] have to eject at least it's over land and not over the water if the engine is uh still working [1:43:46] you know they're 1500 miles or so from the nearest suitable runway at ed eilson let me ask a kind of [1:43:53] combined question uh i spoke to the secretary of the air force general wilsbach very recently the [1:43:58] air force has committed to me 10 years ago 10 years ago to get more kc-135s up to eilson for this exact [1:44:06] purpose but other reasons i think they're working it but 10 years is long have a long time to wait [1:44:12] for a commitment from the air force i hope we get on it but we also need more infrastructure right [1:44:16] we're reopening the navy base today doc we're building out a port in nome finally we're looking [1:44:22] at dead horse up here [1:44:23] uh we're looking at king salmon down here can you talk about both the need for tankers and expanded [1:44:31] infrastructure that you're working on that can help make this mission more doable more safe [1:44:38] and to give the power projection that we need to make sure that when the russians and chinese keep [1:44:44] doing this and all indications are they're going to keep doing it that we have the ability to [1:44:48] intercept them yes sir we need the tankers and i know the air force is working uh on that that's [1:44:55] the lifeline up there all of the bases that you pointed out are extremely important for a couple [1:45:00] of reasons one is resiliency uh safety as you mentioned and also it gives the president and [1:45:07] the secretary options if we do come into conflict we have more avenues of approach that we can [1:45:13] defend or project power from if necessary well i look forward to continue to work with you on all [1:45:18] these thanks for your great service thank you senator sullivan is their objection to putting [1:45:23] copies of these two posters in the record [1:45:26] so ordered uh senator duckworth thank you mr chairman general general guillot i wish i could [1:45:34] ask you about the range of threats from adversaries that i know your team is battling every day but [1:45:39] instead president trump has forced us to again grapple with another possible unprecedented [1:45:43] domestic misuse of our military he seems uh to he his seeming desire to send troops to polling [1:45:51] places in february president trump said and i quote republicans ought to nationalize the voting [1:45:57] system and will commit to it as much as they can if it's not a federal problem that is an [1:46:16] honorable consideration the last time we spoke in this conference we were not speaking about [1:46:19] this but it's a not an appropriate statement in terms of how we should change it but what we [1:46:24] did say is that we need to do something about it the political process we need to do something about it [1:46:25] even if we don't we have to give it a go we need to make sure that we get out of court until it is foldable [1:46:25] General Keogh, I appreciated that you previously committed before this committee to establish [1:46:30] guardrails within your authorities for domestically deployed troops, including by distinguishing [1:46:35] between military and federal agents. [1:46:38] If President Trump orders troops to American cities around the midterm elections, what [1:46:41] guardrails will you commit to within your authorities to ensure that no voters feel [1:46:45] intimidated by the presence of troops? [1:46:47] Senator, I very clearly understand the law there and the illegality of putting armed [1:46:55] forces there unless, as you said, there is the exception for the armed rebellion. [1:47:00] And so if given the order, I would look at it very closely. [1:47:03] And if it did not meet what I felt were the legal hurdles, I would consult with my JAG [1:47:11] and then I would bring up that concern with the secretary and the chairman to ensure that [1:47:15] I could stay on the right side of the law. [1:47:18] Thank you. [1:47:19] If you're ordered to deploy troops to provide logistical support to federal agents around [1:47:22] the election, would you see any reason for having troops in FUBAP? [1:47:25] Cardo dress, body armor, carrying their weapons and ammunition, if it's for logistical support? [1:47:31] Senator, logistical support is not one of the exceptions. [1:47:34] So no, I would not see any reason to use armed and uniformed members around a polling place [1:47:40] for logistics. [1:47:41] Thank you. [1:47:42] Would you be advised that they not be allowed around a certain radius of polling places? [1:47:47] Senator, I don't think that's defined, but I don't think they should be anywhere near [1:47:51] there where we would give the perception that we're trying to operate illegally. [1:47:56] Thank you. [1:47:57] Mr. Newsom, trips around the election is just another way that this administration is shifting [1:48:01] the burden of legal liability onto service members. [1:48:04] This is my concern because the statutes specify that any member of the arms forces who deploys [1:48:09] to polling places or intimidates voters could be imprisoned or disqualified from office. [1:48:14] As we saw during the December hearing on domestic deployments that I secured, this administration [1:48:18] is comfortable thrusting our service members into legally ambiguous situations and leaving [1:48:23] them to hang out to dry without legal protection. [1:48:25] We know that President Trump, who grandstands and rallies that he's all about warfighters, [1:48:29] is actually the fastest to betray them. [1:48:31] As a guardsman, or as a former guardsman, it's always going to be in my heart, this [1:48:35] is serious to me. [1:48:36] We saw the toll Trump's misadventure last year deploying troops to American cities took [1:48:40] on my fellow guardsmen and on their communities that we call home. [1:48:44] Taxpayers had to pay $21 million for President Trump's decision to federalize 500 guardsmen [1:48:49] in Illinois alone, troops who, despite his claims that they reduced crime in Chicago, [1:48:53] never actually took action. [1:48:54] Thank you. [1:48:55] That is a serious mistake. [1:48:56] We also have to remind you that the court, in my view, has not only set foot in Chicago, [1:48:59] they sat around training sites for three months away from their families and civilian careers [1:49:02] because the courts found the deployments illegal within the first 24 hours, and yet [1:49:06] he kept them there for another three months through the Christmas holidays. [1:49:10] And now he might once again pull our military away from their daily lives to police Americans, [1:49:15] this time to intimidate voters with no basis in facts, no basis in law, and at the expense [1:49:19] of millions of taxpayer dollars. [1:49:21] I'd like to use my remaining time to turn to operations in South Com. [1:49:24] another arena of concerning misuse of force by this administration. [1:49:29] General Donovan, in our private conversations prior to your confirmation, I expressed my [1:49:32] concern about this administration's targeting decisions and what you might be asked to do [1:49:37] once you are in leadership of SOUTHCOM. [1:49:40] Now that you're in the seat, I want to follow up on our conversation. [1:49:43] What guidance have you received or issued for how to treat associates of a group differently [1:49:49] from a confirmed direct member of a group? [1:49:51] Senator, thank you. [1:49:54] And associates, affiliates, I think is the term we're using now. [1:49:56] Is that the same term, Senator? [1:49:58] Well, the administration and their legal justifications are calling these folks associates. [1:50:03] But it's different from being a confirmed direct member of a group. [1:50:07] We have a definition of affiliates tied to that classified definition. [1:50:11] In a closed setting, I would like to share word for word what that definition is, Senator. [1:50:15] Okay. [1:50:16] But this is about the term associate, which is what the administration has used. [1:50:18] I'm concerned about the looseness of the term that SOUTHCOM has been using to publicly report [1:50:22] an individual we killed. [1:50:24] Specifically. [1:50:24] Specifically, affiliate or associate. [1:50:27] Those are the two words that were used, which implies an even weaker association with any [1:50:32] concerning threat. [1:50:33] To be clear, striking people in the Caribbean Sea under weak justification is not only disturbing, [1:50:38] it is illegal. [1:50:39] This campaign has not been authorized by Congress. [1:50:42] So despite what this administration may say or want to believe, this is not a global war [1:50:45] on terror when the American people authorized the use of force through their congressional [1:50:48] representative after attacks on September 11th. [1:50:51] This is a different situation entirely, one in which the administration is risking American [1:50:54] troops and innocent civilians at the expense of American taxpayers with no transparency [1:50:59] or rational justification. [1:51:01] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [1:51:02] Thank you, Senator Duckworth. [1:51:03] Senator Schmidt, you are recognized and you temporarily have the gavel. [1:51:08] Wow. [1:51:09] Big promotion there. [1:51:10] Thank you, Senator. [1:51:11] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [1:51:12] General Donovan, I wanted to ask you, the PRC has dramatically sort of increased their [1:51:16] footprint by way of infrastructure, ports, including, I think, one of the largest distant [1:51:23] water fishing fleets in the world. [1:51:25] And in your view, well, in the 2025 National Security Strategy, it declares that we're [1:51:30] going to deny non-hemispheric competitors the ability to own or control significant [1:51:35] vital assets in our hemisphere. [1:51:38] What are some of those assets that are of concern? [1:51:41] The primary asset I'm concerned about is the Panama Canal. [1:51:47] It's to maintain the Panama Canal open for free flow of commerce, but with the true focus [1:51:52] of ensuring that we can flow US forces east to west of the Panama Canal, further south [1:51:57] in the southern cone. [1:51:58] You have other minerals. [1:51:59] You have the Panama Canal. [1:52:00] You have the Panama Canal. [1:52:01] What are some of the assets that the PRC is concerned with? [1:52:02] And are these, you know, the original assets we're concerned with? [1:52:03] I'm concerned about an undersea cable coming into Chile that the PRC are tied to, and otherwise [1:52:06] the dual-use nature of almost everything they install in our region. [1:52:10] I think it's encouraging that Panama acted on this. [1:52:17] It doesn't feel like a one-and-done kind of thing, though, so what's kind of on the [1:52:21] horizon that we have to be mindful of? [1:52:23] Senator, thank you for – [1:52:24] With regard to the Panama Canal specifically. [1:52:25] Right. [1:52:26] Well, thank you for highlighting that. [1:52:27] President Molino, a great partner. [1:52:29] The fact that we are holding the Panamax, South Com's largest exercise, the first time in 14 years in Panama. [1:52:37] There's 24 other nations coming. [1:52:38] So they're becoming not only holding the Chinese at bay, they've also become key partners in the region. [1:52:45] And we believe that, you know, things like the Jungle Training Operations School, [1:52:49] those are core not only to increase our capabilities as U.S. service members, [1:52:53] but also to bring other partners together to develop those relationships. [1:52:57] And, Senator, what I've also realized in these first 43 days, that same environment that these cartels thrive in, [1:53:03] that they look to create those anarchic situations that they can flourish in, the PRC are right there with them. [1:53:09] The Chinese are right in those same areas, you know, countering local government. [1:53:12] And then the Chinese can move in very quickly and build the cheap school, the cheap soccer stadium, [1:53:17] or the cheap road and gain influence. [1:53:19] And I think the more we work with these partners, exercise like Panamax, [1:53:22] where we showed that we're good partners and teammates and use some of the other tools we have, [1:53:26] you know, we're going to be able to do that. [1:53:27] The Economic Defense Unit, Office of Strategic Capital, [1:53:30] we're introducing new tools to counter the PRC influence in the region. [1:53:34] And it feels like post Maduro, it feels like that a lot of folks are coming our way, right, in that part of the world, [1:53:44] more sort of Latin American governments and friends are becoming better friends [1:53:49] and people who were maybe not so outwardly favorable to us have sort of come our way. [1:53:57] Is that your assessment? [1:53:58] Senator, maybe you've heard of the America's Counter Cartel Coalition. [1:54:03] It started as a conference in our headquarters led by the Secretary about two weeks ago. [1:54:06] They signed a document that we now have a coalition that will have a military aspect to it. [1:54:11] And I say military, it's really partners that are willing to join with us to move forward against the cartels [1:54:17] with different degrees based on what they can bring, but pretty positive and you can sense that folks want to get at this problem set. [1:54:24] Thank you. [1:54:25] General Geo, I wanted to ask you for... [1:54:29] For counter UAS threats that are, the threats that are out there and sort of counter UAS. [1:54:34] Missouri is home to Whiteman Air Force Base, obviously. [1:54:37] How are you assessing the threat level to military installations that are out there right now and how far along are we in countering that? [1:54:46] Senator, we've seen an increase from last year in the number of detections over military installations over the course of the year. [1:54:54] Some of that might be due to the fact that we have more detection capability now than we did in the past. [1:54:59] And then our ability to defeat them has improved, whereas a year ago almost everyone that was detected was not defeated. [1:55:06] Now about a quarter of the ones that we detect, we're able to defeat. [1:55:11] I pay particular attention to Whiteman and other strategic bases, whether submarine, silos, or aircraft, [1:55:20] and work very closely with Admiral Correll at STRATCOM to make sure that either through the services or through our own capabilities at NORTHCOM, [1:55:27] we are protecting those vital... [1:55:29] locations from UASs. [1:55:33] You could put me in the category of somebody that's very supportive of our efforts to increase our presence, our footprint in Greenland. [1:55:43] I think it's vital for a bunch of different reasons. [1:55:46] What are sort of the, what are the designs that we might have for expansion, given the strategic importance that it has? [1:55:53] Where do you see that right now and why is that important? [1:55:56] Senator, it is extremely important strategically and operationally. [1:56:01] For our command, we're very supportive of expanding access to and cooperation with Greenland and Denmark. [1:56:08] I have a strong relationship with the Danish CHOD, and we're working together to bring more capability there. [1:56:14] What I'd like to see added to what we have now, which is primarily space and initial fighter and tanker response, [1:56:22] is more locations where we can do special operations and more access in the maritime domain to build up our defense, [1:56:30] defensive approaches from that northeast approach to North America. [1:56:35] Thank you, General. [1:56:36] Thank you. [1:56:37] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [1:56:38] Thank you, Senator Schmidt. [1:56:39] Senator Rosen. [1:56:40] Well, thank you, Chairman Wicker, Ranking Member Reid, for holding this hearing, [1:56:43] and I'd really like to thank General Guillaume and General Donovan, [1:56:46] not just for testifying today, but for your lifetime of service to the nation. [1:56:51] Thank you. [1:56:52] I want to start with you, General Guillaume, about defense of critical infrastructure, [1:56:59] because defending critical infrastructure, [1:57:01] and the homeland from cyber attacks involves multiple federal entities, as we know. [1:57:06] Civilian agencies, such as the Cyber Security and Infrastructure Security Agency, CISA, [1:57:11] have primary responsibility for working with the infrastructure owners, [1:57:15] while the Department of Defense brings unique capabilities in cyber operations and homeland defense. [1:57:21] Countries such as China and Russia have demonstrated sophisticated cyber operations [1:57:26] that could potentially disrupt power, transportation, or communications networks, [1:57:31] inside the United States. [1:57:33] So can you speak to how Northern Command fits into that framework, [1:57:38] and specifically, what role does NORTHCOM play in supporting the defense of critical infrastructure [1:57:44] against cyber threats? [1:57:45] How do you coordinate these responsibilities with other agencies? [1:57:50] Senator, defense of critical infrastructure happens to be one of the three or four main goals [1:57:56] for our headquarters this year to improve our capability, [1:57:59] for all the reasons that you mentioned. [1:58:01] Starting with cyber, we have a very strong working relationship with First Cyber Command, [1:58:07] with CISA, and with the FBI to make sure that it's a seamless defense of our networks, [1:58:14] not only within our own department, but as it goes out into critical infrastructure [1:58:18] and the defense industrial base, because we need all of those entities to be free from cyber threats [1:58:24] for us to be successful militarily in defending the homeland. [1:58:28] So we have a very strong relationship, [1:58:30] and then we work and exercise and tabletop exercise with them [1:58:34] to make sure that on the cyber front that we are unified [1:58:39] and very sharing of all information that we have. [1:58:44] I think the defense of critical infrastructure faces more threats than just cyber. [1:58:52] There are certainly physical threats that they have. [1:58:55] And in that regard, working very closely with the National Guard, [1:59:00] from each state, where they recently had their TAG conference in Colorado where we hosted that, [1:59:06] and then we made a pact this year to work with each state to see what critical infrastructure [1:59:10] they felt that they would protect, and then what they might need from Title 10 forces [1:59:15] to augment that to make sure that we had a seamless protection of defense critical infrastructure [1:59:21] in the physical domain as well as in the cyber domain. [1:59:23] Thank you. [1:59:24] In Nevada, we have lots of critical infrastructure, Hoover Dam and others. [1:59:29] So thank you for that. [1:59:31] General Donovan, I want to move to you and talk about Guantanamo Bay, [1:59:34] because with the use of our naval base at Guantanamo Bay [1:59:37] to house undocumented individuals detained in the United States, [1:59:41] I have concerns about the delineation between the responsibilities of DOD and ICE, [1:59:47] and whether the military was ever made whole after having to foot the bill [1:59:50] for the Department of Homeland Security carrying out its mission. [1:59:54] So General Donovan, for those who are deported now being held at Guantanamo, [1:59:58] are military personnel charged with guarding, caring, and feeding them? [2:00:05] If so, who's paying for it? [2:00:07] And what is the division of responsibilities between DOD and ICE there? [2:00:13] Senator, South Com's job is to ensure safety, care, and treatment of those IAs at that facility at Gitmo. [2:00:21] Currently, those all costs associated with that go through the services, not directly to South Com, [2:00:27] so I'd have to defer that to the service of the comptroller. [2:00:30] Well, can you tell me that, do you have plans to hold people at Gitmo for years [2:00:36] if they can't be returned to their country of origin? [2:00:38] And again, what about your manpower if you do that, resources? [2:00:43] Are you going to be coming to us for that? [2:00:45] Can you speak to that at all, please? [2:00:47] Again, Senator, those are decisions that would be at DHS and above the Secretary, [2:00:53] so we'll just continue to carry out our responsibility of providing security for that actual camp itself. [2:00:58] Thank you. [2:00:59] I'm going to build a little bit, General Guillaume, [2:01:01] on Senator Duckworth's remarks about DOD deployment to American cities. [2:01:05] And I'm just concerned that our guardsmen are going to be placed in dangerous situations, [2:01:16] deployed to patrol American cities where they're working in close proximity to ICE [2:01:20] and involved in sensitive community interactions. [2:01:23] So what guidance has been provided to our guardsmen in order to avoid eroding trust [2:01:28] in diverse communities where they're patrolling, [2:01:31] and what is the division of missions responsibility between DOD and ICE [2:01:36] as it refers to our National Guard? [2:01:38] Senator, at this time, there are no guard forces under my command [2:01:45] in any of the cities that you mentioned. [2:01:48] But in the past, as you know, we did have some under Title X authorities. [2:01:52] And the first thing that they are briefed when they come under Title X [2:01:55] is not so much what they can do, but what they cannot do. [2:01:59] And that is they cannot execute any law enforcement activities, [2:02:02] even if they're perhaps policemen in their civilian job [2:02:06] or if they're military policemen in their guard unit. [2:02:09] If they're under Title X authorities, due to the Posse Comitatus Act, [2:02:12] they are not allowed to execute any law enforcement activities. [2:02:16] And that's the first level of briefing that we gave in the past [2:02:19] when we had forces assigned to us. [2:02:21] But at this time, all of the guard forces that are operating in various cities, [2:02:26] they're not under Title X, so therefore they're not under my authority. [2:02:29] Thank you. [2:02:30] Thank you, Senator Rosen. [2:02:31] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [2:02:32] Senator Warren. [2:02:34] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [2:02:37] President Trump and Secretary Hegseth are repeatedly dragging the U.S. military [2:02:43] across both legal and moral lines. [2:02:47] Trump and Hegseth have plunged us into an illegal war with Iran [2:02:51] where a U.S. airstrike appears to have killed 150 schoolchildren. [2:02:57] And it's not just in Iran. [2:03:00] Under Trump and Hegseth, the military fired on civilians. [2:03:02] And shipwrecked survivors in the Caribbean. [2:03:07] And now Secretary Hegseth is threatening to give, quote, [2:03:12] no quarter to adversaries. [2:03:15] This is not who we are. [2:03:19] Our enemies might not care about civilian casualties, [2:03:22] but the U.S. military always, always has. [2:03:27] And that is why Secretary Hegseth's attacks on the guard rails [2:03:31] that prevent civilian harm and civilian casualties is so dangerous. [2:03:38] So take the JAGs now more than ever. [2:03:41] We need strong, independent military lawyers. [2:03:45] But there are serious concerns that JAGs cannot give honest legal advice right now. [2:03:52] So, General Guillaume, let me ask you. [2:03:54] Have you seen any evidence of the JAG Corps being sidelined, [2:03:59] whether at NORTHCOM or elsewhere in the department? [2:04:04] Senator, I've not seen any evidence of the JAGs being sidelined in our command. [2:04:09] I'll point out that our JAG is included in all of our battle rhythm meetings. [2:04:14] And, in fact, our JAG is sitting behind me right now. [2:04:18] And I just want you to know, I'm glad to hear that. [2:04:21] Glad to hear it's not happening in your command. [2:04:25] But we know that this is a problem across the department. [2:04:29] Secretary Hegseth fired T-JAGs because he thought they were, quote, roadblocks. [2:04:36] And he installed his personal lawyer to retrain military lawyers to water down constraints. [2:04:45] He reassigned hundreds of JAGs to work on Trump's radical immigration agenda. [2:04:51] And last week, the secretary said he's starting a, quote, ruthless overhaul of the JAG system. [2:04:59] Look, for decades, military lawyers have worked side by side with officers to make sure that strikes are lawful [2:05:06] and that they minimize civilian casualties. [2:05:10] That doesn't make us weaker. [2:05:12] It saves innocent lives, and it prevents fueling terrorism. [2:05:18] But Secretary Hegseth has blamed JAGs for what he calls, quote, stupid rules of engagement. [2:05:26] So, General Donovan, let me ask you. [2:05:28] If a JAG or a civilian harm advisor says to distinguish between a military base and an elementary school and an airstrike, [2:05:37] is that a stupid rule of engagement? [2:05:42] No, Senator. [2:05:44] Look, JAGs can't give their best advice if they fear losing their job just for raising legal concerns with an operation. [2:05:53] One way we protect the integrity of legal advice in our military [2:05:57] is by creating for-cause removal protections for our JAGs. [2:06:03] Commanders also need to be able to speak up when they're being asked to break the law. [2:06:08] General Donovan, your predecessor was reportedly ousted because he raised concerns about the legality of the Caribbean boat strikes. [2:06:18] Will you commit to informing this committee if SOUTHCOM is directed to do something that you or your JAG thinks may be illegal? [2:06:27] Senator, my first obligation, if I face what I believe is an unlawful or illegal order, [2:06:36] is to obviously seek legal counsel, discuss that with my higher headquarters, [2:06:41] and then move forward and not carry out an illegal order. [2:06:45] Yeah, maybe you didn't hear my question. [2:06:48] My question was, will you commit to informing this committee if SOUTHCOM is directed to do something that you or your JAG thinks is illegal? [2:06:59] If I reported that to this committee, Senator, [2:07:01] it would be through my chain of command. [2:07:03] But you would make sure that we got the information? [2:07:05] I would report to my chain of command. [2:07:09] And you would not take any responsibility for making sure we got that information? [2:07:13] You do realize we have oversight responsibilities here? [2:07:16] Senator, I would work that information through my chain of command. [2:07:20] All right, that's a very concerning answer here. [2:07:23] Look, what's happening right now is very dangerous. [2:07:26] We need our nonpartisan military leaders to double down on their commitment to following the law [2:07:31] and speaking up when they are asked to break it. [2:07:34] And Congress needs to be able to step in and rein in this lawless Commander-in-Chief [2:07:40] and his self-styled Secretary of War. [2:07:43] Thank you. [2:07:44] I think we have another series of questions by Senator Reid. [2:07:51] Mr. Chairman, thank you. [2:07:52] I have one question. [2:07:53] General Donovan, you noted twice that you reviewed every single execute or exhort related to the boat strikes. [2:08:03] Just to confirm, it was important to you [2:08:06] to your understanding and oversight of these strikes to review these exhort documents all. [2:08:12] Is that correct? [2:08:13] Yes, Senator. [2:08:15] Thank you, sir. [2:08:16] Mr. Chairman, I would just like to reiterate that there is a legal requirement for the Department [2:08:22] to provide those exhorts to the committee, which you and I have requested multiple times [2:08:28] to include letters to the Secretary of Defense. [2:08:31] Section 1744 of the FY20 NDIS. [2:08:36] requires DOD to provide the exhorts at the request of the committee. [2:08:44] But in FY25, Section 1067, it requires DOD to provide a copy of any new or revised exhorts within 15 days. [2:08:57] So there's no requirement for request. [2:08:59] The Secretary has not fulfilled this legal requirement. [2:09:03] And your testimony, General Donovan, [2:09:06] further confirms in my mind that we need these documents to understand and oversee [2:09:11] that's our role, oversee these operations. [2:09:15] I just, for the record, want to make that very clear. [2:09:18] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [2:09:21] Thank you, Senator Reid. [2:09:23] If there's nothing further, let's reconvene at 1210 in the SCIF. [2:09:33] Will that be all right, gentlemen? [2:09:35] Yes, Senator. [2:09:36] And we are recessed until then. [2:09:38] Thank you.