House Foreign Affairs Committee holds hearing on confronting gangs in Haiti

[0:00] an estimated 90% of Port-au-Prince have displaced more than 1.4 million people and are working to [0:06] supplant the Haitian state. The hearing will assess the failure of the previous multinational [0:12] security support mission, the design, deployment, and funding of its successor, the gang suppression [0:19] force. In addition, the Haitian police and their military have been severely weakened in part due [0:26] to the legal migration which has allowed gangs to take control of areas like Port-au-Prince, [0:32] a situation that has got so bad that the Haitian national police had officers start picking up [0:37] their paychecks in person due to so many leaving and still receiving their direct deposits. [0:44] So there is a security crisis there that we want to examine that's created a cost burden for the [0:50] United States and our allies alike to the tune of billions of dollars. I would now recognize myself [0:56] for an opening statement. 700 miles from my home state of Florida, terrorist organizations [1:03] control the Haiti national capital. They don't influence it, they control it. They hold an [1:09] estimated 90% of Port-au-Prince. They have displaced more than 1.4 million. They murder. They kidnap. [1:16] They rape. They castrate. They feed people what they castrate. They extort the Haitian people on a [1:24] massive scale. They seek to replace the Haitian state with something that answers to them. The [1:31] consequences of a fully collapsed Haiti will not just stay in Haiti. It goes without saying that [1:36] mass illegal immigration from a country explicitly governed as a safe haven for terrorists and [1:43] traffickers would be harmful to America's interests and those of our allies. Here's what makes this [1:48] oversight hearing different. We have already run the experiment of getting this wrong. The previous [1:55] administration's answer to stabilizing Haiti was the failed UN multinational security support mission [2:03] of the MSS, a program to bring in foreigners from places like Kenya and Chad to take on gangs while [2:10] costing the American taxpayer over a billion dollars. In total, over a million dollars per Kenyan that [2:18] they sent into the country. Don't take my word for that. The State Department told this committee that the [2:25] mission was, quote, an ineffective boondoggle. When the last Kenyan officers flew home this past April, [2:32] Haiti's gangs controlled more territory than the day the mission began. That is the definition of failure. [2:40] This is exactly why I advocated for not sending any contributions to the United Nations because this [2:45] is the kind of boondoggles that they run. The United Nations authorized mission that replaced it, the gang [2:52] suppression force, is built differently and hopefully learns from the mistakes of the past. It is more kinetic [2:58] force with a direct action mandate to unilaterally take the fight to the gangs. This is not just a police support [3:06] mission. It's about eliminating terrorist gangs. On paper, its costs are shared, assessed across the United Nations [3:13] member states with an American share of about 117 million dollars a year. That's far better than the over [3:20] billion dollars that we spent in a year previously. I say on paper because in practice, the American taxpayer is still [3:28] underwriting this mission and we will get to that. These operations began June 1. As I said, I want this [3:35] mission to succeed, but wanting and hope are not strategies. So today this committee needs three things. [3:42] First, we need the mission's benchmarks for success. The mission's special representative owed the United Nations [3:49] Security Council a strategy by July 1st. So today we need to find out are its benchmarks real or just [3:56] aspirational and what happens if some of them are missed. Second, apart from our assessed contribution, [4:05] the administration has rolled out bilateral assistance piece by piece, up to 40 million dollars [4:10] in bridge and sustainment funds, 68 million in equipment, a police recruitment surge, support for Haiti's [4:16] armed forces and now counterterrorism funds with no specific dollar figure attached. That money by the [4:23] state department's own accounting is going toward, among other things, buying meals ready to eat and [4:28] bottled water, a bill that the department itself says belongs to those countries, not us. We were promised [4:37] a force that learned the lessons of the MSS, but the U.S. taxpayers on top of the check we've already written [4:44] is still underwriting this mission's food and water. How much of this new GSF, how much will this new GSF cost [4:52] American citizens? Third, we need honesty about what comes next and the significant challenges that [4:58] remain. The UN mandate for the GSF expires on September 30th, before this force even reaches full [5:06] strength. The first elections in a decade are scheduled for August, but Haiti's insecurity makes those [5:14] unlikely. And a private company paid by Haiti, not by the American taxpayer, is putting the gangs on their [5:23] heels with no more than 150 people. Vectis Global, run by Eric Prince. Our own diplomats credit it with [5:33] altering the momentum and the geometry of this fight, again with 150 individuals. If 150 contractors can do [5:40] that, a 5,500 person UN force should have zero excuses, though that's all we received with the MSS mission. [5:51] To our witnesses, this committee is looking for candor. Tell us what is working. Tell us what is not. Tell us [5:58] what you need. Helping Haiti is not impossible, but the lesson of the last mission was that failure was [6:04] obvious for nearly two years, yet nobody changed course. That will not happen on this committee's watch. [6:10] And I would now recognize Ranking Member Meeks from New York for any opening statement that you may have. [6:15] Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for calling this hearing. And thank you to our witnesses for being here. [6:22] And I just want to point out that I'd love for this committee also to be, if we're talking about a little [6:28] penny-pinching, especially when it comes to Haiti, let's put it into perspective. You know, when we think about [6:35] there was, I think, the chairman said close to a billion dollars have been spent in Haiti. But we're spending more than [6:43] even double that, two billion dollars each day in the president's war of choice in Iran. Still no [6:50] hearings or oversight from this committee. This administration has spent about five times that [6:55] amount on the Maduro raid and boat strikes in the Caribbean and Eastern Pacific without showing Congress [7:01] if that it has prevented a single overdose death, taxpayer money being spent. Over 300 million dollars in [7:09] taxpayer money has been directed toward the White House ballroom. And I can go on whether you're [7:14] talking about the reflection pool and some other things that this president has been utilizing the [7:19] taxpayer dollars, which just does not make any sense to the American people. So I think that if we are going [7:25] to look at some of the spending issues, I would think that we should start looking at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. [7:31] And for years, you know, through Haiti has endured a convergence of violence, political instability, [7:38] economic collapse and humanitarian suffering that has no parallel in our hemisphere. Armed gangs control [7:45] large parts of Haiti's capital. Families have been driven from their homes. Women and children face gender [7:50] based violence. Hospitals struggle to function. Schools have closed. Nearly 5.7 million nations, half of the [7:58] country face acute food insecurity. And while we may not all agree on the best approach to addressing [8:03] this crisis, I believe we can all agree that the United States Haiti policy under Democratic and [8:09] Republican administrations alike has fallen short. Closing the gap is not only a matter of conscience, [8:15] it's a matter of national and regional security. Helping Haiti overcome this crisis is not charity, [8:21] it's a strategic investment in a safer and more prosperous hemisphere. But in so doing, [8:27] we must recognize that another U.S. imposed solution will not work. Haiti's future cannot be designed [8:34] in Washington, New York or Geneva. Lasting progress must be Haitian led and accountable to the Haitian [8:40] people. The United States should offer sustained support. We must work with like-minded countries [8:46] around the world, but as partners, not as architects. That brings me to the gang suppression force. With [8:52] proper implementation, the GSF can help Haitian authorities push back against gangs, secure critical [8:58] infrastructure, and create the conditions for Haitians to begin rebuilding their country. I hope it is [9:04] successful. But we must also be honest about what the GSF cannot do. It cannot replace legitimate governance. It [9:11] cannot substitute for long-term investments in institutions, economic opportunity, or public trust. You can capture or [9:18] kill gang members. But if you do not address the broken political and economic system that creates finances and replenishes these [9:26] gangs, the cycle of violence will only continue. The GSF mission is not paired with a serious political process, [9:34] humanitarian relief, and a plan to reclaim gang control territory. Then any gains will be temporary. Security without a [9:43] political and economic strategy is not a solution. It's only a pause. A security mission in Haiti must also be [9:51] accompanied by disarmament, demobilization, and reintegration programs. Haitian humanitarian assistance [9:57] must flow alongside security assistance because Haitians need food, medicine, and shelter. That means that the [10:04] Trump administration must bring forward a comprehensive strategy equal to the scale of the crises. The [10:10] administration should start by reversing its own damaging policies. The gutting of U.S. foreign aid has [10:16] hit Haiti particularly hard. And even as the administration warns Americans against traveling to Haiti, [10:24] it claims the island is safe enough to end temporary protective status and deport some 350,000 Haitians. [10:31] This is not just cruel. It's contradictory. And it will only exacerbate instability in Haiti. Next, [10:37] the administration must identify and hold accountable those members of Haiti's political and economic [10:42] elite who are supporting the gangs. It has failed to do so adequately despite a congressional mandate [10:48] and by which the Congress, the bipartisan Haiti Criminal Collusion Transparency Act, which became law last [10:56] year. Congress must do more as well. I introduced the SOC per se in Haiti Act with Representative Murphy of North [11:03] Carolina that would require the State Department to develop a comprehensive strategy to counter [11:08] instability in Haiti. Congress should pass that today. Lastly, and unless Congress reauthorizes [11:14] hope help for an extended period, jobs that are lifeline for Haitians, fleeing gang violence will [11:20] evaporate. So support for Haiti has long been bipartisan backing in Congress and because the American [11:26] people understand the suffering that Haitian people have endured and want to help after the 2010 earthquake [11:33] killed more than 300,000 people, Americans across the country mobilized because that is who we are. [11:39] The United States has a responsibility to leave and must do so in a way that avoids repeating the [11:44] mistakes of the past, sentence Haitian voices, delivers the partnership this moment demands. So I look forward [11:50] to our discussion today and hearing how this administration intends to be the partner that this moment calls for. [11:57] Thank you. Thank you, Ranking Member Meeks. Other members of the committee are reminded that opening [12:02] statements may be submitted for the record. We're pleased to have a distinguished panel of witnesses [12:06] before us today on this important topic. The Honorable Michael Kozak, Senior Bureau Official for the Bureau of [12:11] Western Hemisphere Affairs at the U.S. Department of State and Colonel Justin Gorkowski, co-lead of the Haiti [12:17] Gang Suppression Force Tiger Team at the U.S. Department of War. This committee recognizes the importance of the issues [12:23] before us and is grateful to have you here to speak with us today. Your full statements will be made a [12:28] part of the record and I'll ask each of you try to keep your spoken remarks to about five minutes [12:32] in order to allow time for member questions. And Ambassador Kozak, I recognize you for any opening [12:37] statement that you may have. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman Maas, Ranking Member Meeks, distinguished members [12:48] of the committee, the U.S. overarching objective in Haiti is baseline stability. A network of armed groups [12:55] threaten to take over the Haitian state while destabilizing the region. We estimate the gangs have [13:01] approximately 3,000 well-armed fighters. The former MSS mission supported only 1,000 police with no clear [13:09] mandate. They cost over half a million dollars per person per year. Last September, the United States and [13:16] Panama led the U.N. Security Council's adoption of Resolution 2793. With this new mandate, the United States [13:25] as chair and five other regional countries make up the standing group of partners and they've recruited [13:31] qualified participating states to deploy as a gang suppression force. U.N. logistics will support the [13:38] GSF, a burden previously incurred almost entirely by U.S. taxpayers. This U.N. mandate authorized the [13:46] deployment of up to 5,500 uniformed military and police personnel to conduct intelligence-led targeted [13:52] operations to neutralize, isolate, and deter the gangs, to secure critical infrastructure, and to [13:59] enhance the operational capacity of the Haitian security forces through joint planning and operations. [14:06] We are getting more than five times the forces, while the overall enterprise will cost the U.S. [14:11] approximately one-fifth of what we were spending with the MSS. So five times more bang for one-fifth of the [14:20] bucks. The civilian staff component led by GFS Special Representative Jack Christofides provides [14:27] on-the-ground support, oversight, and accountability for the force. The Organization of American States [14:33] is involved as a key regional stakeholder body, and I'm pleased to announce that at the OAS General [14:39] Assembly just last month, the OAS unanimously called for renewal of the mandate by the U.N. Security [14:47] Council. Very important in dealing with threats of veto by Russia and China. That was a decisive [14:54] factor, I think, last year, having the region completely together. In the coming weeks, more [14:59] troops and their equipment will arrive and hold more territory. The Department is working with U.N. [15:03] professionals to ensure the right pieces are positioned for success. As the GSF helps Haiti retake and [15:10] secure terrain, strategic infrastructure, and vital supply and transit routes, the force is working to put [15:16] itself out of business. One of the first tasks of the Special Representatives was to define an exit [15:22] strategy with measurable objectives, performance indicators, and an implementation timeline, [15:28] which he submitted to the Standing Group of Partners and the U.N. Security Council on June 19. [15:33] I'm sorry, June 29. Perhaps most significantly, Haiti's leadership is intent on building its own [15:39] capacity. This includes a 40 percent expansion of the Haitian police this year and reconstituting the [15:46] military for the first time in decades. The Haitian government sees holding the first elections in [15:51] 10 years as critical to stability. It's not that just the gangs got stronger, it was that the government [15:58] got weaker. Haiti's interim government is preparing for national elections, paving the way for an elected [16:04] government next year. Economically, Haiti's priority is creating an alternative to gang enlistment. [16:10] U.S. trade preference programs such as Hope Help Act support a significant number of jobs. [16:16] We share the Haitian government's interest in strengthening that and would like to see a [16:22] multi-year reauthorization of Help Hope. Haiti's problems are grave, but progress is achievable this [16:29] year. The GSF will ramp up to full operations in coming months. The Haitian people and their interim [16:34] government are determined to regain military and police capacity to protect their own homeland [16:39] and close a dark chapter. Now is the time to solidify the path for Haiti's future, [16:44] for their benefit, as well as for the United States and the broader region. [16:48] Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member. Thank you, Ambassador. Colonel Gronkowski, [16:54] I now recognize you for any opening statement you'd like to give. Thank you, sir. Chairman Mast, [17:01] Ranking Member Meeks, distinguished members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to speak [17:05] with you today about Haiti and the Gang Suppression Force. I'm pleased to begin today's testimony by informing [17:11] you that exactly one month ago the Gang Suppression Force initiated operations to retake territory in [17:17] Haiti previously controlled by terrorist gangs, resulting in several detainees, weapons seized, [17:23] and incendiary devices destroyed. This may seem trivial, but it represents a significant benchmark for [17:30] stabilization efforts soon to come. We've learned more about Haitian gangs in the past 30 days in the [17:35] previous 30 months. Today, I will provide a brief overview of the force we designed to address the [17:40] problem, expected deployment timelines, and considerations for the future force. My focus [17:46] is security, on which all Haitian stability rests. Let's begin with a clear articulation of the problem. [17:52] The absence of governance in Haiti has created opportunities for informal power structures to [17:56] thrive through use of force, financial independence, intimidation, and terrorism. Over 20 different [18:03] gang leaders deploy their foot soldiers to fight for control over Haiti's territory and dwindling resources. [18:11] These gang leaders whose forces outnumber Haitian security force personnel dictate daily life in the [18:17] territories they control by providing security, jobs, school supplies, and condolence payments. This [18:24] threat is multifaceted and has become entrenched within the corrupt fabric of Haiti's political and [18:30] economic elites. These are not simple gangs that can be jailed and prosecuted. This isn't [18:35] West Side Story. This threat requires a predominantly military solution, and we designed the GSF to [18:43] address the threat I just described, differentiating it from previous multinational force interventions. [18:49] The international peacekeeping apparatus is ineffective against this threat. Instead, [18:55] unlike the previous MSS, we opted for an intelligence-driven, military-heavy solution to conduct [19:01] counter-gang operations. In collaboration with our Haitian partners, we designed this novel [19:06] approach to source military and police forces from the international community, [19:10] and we challenged the UN to adapt their historic practices in a manner to sustain these forces in [19:15] austere environments. This new hybrid approach, forward-leaning security operations underpinned by [19:22] the UN logistical support structure, offers the best chance of regaining territorial control from the gangs. [19:28] So how is it working out? To manage expectations, operations just began in mid-June and have far to [19:35] go. This year, we selected a special representative, Jack Christofides, to lead the mission, as well as [19:40] force commander, Major General Erdin Bhatsuri, and his headquarters staff from Mongolia. We adjudicated [19:46] over 17,500 pledges from 19 countries to optimize a fighting force of 5,500 personnel from 10 countries. [19:55] Together with the UN, we have deployed about 1,100 security personnel from six of these countries since [20:02] April and are preparing to open our second area of operations. We expect to be at full operational [20:07] capability this fall, distinct from full strength. As with any new approach, this mission has its [20:14] challenges. We continue to push the UN to think creatively and repackage its concept of support in [20:19] Haiti to evolve from peacekeeping to direct support to security operations. This hybrid UN supported [20:26] approach results in considerable savings to the American taxpayer from over $1 billion over two [20:33] years to $119 million annually, reflecting a 78% annual reduction, while also attracting massive [20:41] interest from troop and police contributing countries due to familiarity and experience with the UN brand. [20:47] We still have a few months until we are at full capacity, but there are indications the force we've [20:53] designed will achieve its objectives. Our goal now is to get the remaining personnel from the other [20:58] four countries deployed as fast as possible to consolidate gains and hold the territory we clear, [21:04] while diplomatically we pursue mandate renewal. We must simultaneously facilitate growth of the Haitian [21:10] security forces, this is critical, while integrating them into operations so they can secure their own country. [21:18] Through full implementation of the GSF, the international community places Haitian security [21:23] forces in the best position to take full responsibility for their own country's security. [21:28] The hybrid approach we've taken with the UN is the best available solution to a national security [21:33] threat less than 700 miles from American shores. I welcome your questions. Thank you. Thank you, Colonel. [21:40] I'm going to alternate between Republicans and Democrats for about five minutes of questions for each [21:44] person. I'm going to begin with Representative Smith. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and welcome to both of you. [21:52] First of all, I want to Mike Kozak has been a leader for over 50 years. I've worked with him with the OSCE, [21:59] worked with him when he was the ambassador to Belarus, and I've certainly been working on that issue [22:04] much of my time here, and so many other important postings. Havana, Cuba, you know, as the chief of mission, [22:13] a wealth of experience, and not just knowledge, but a wisdom, and I want to thank you for that [22:18] tremendous leadership you have shown over so many years, and welcome to you, Colonel, as well. [22:25] Just a couple of questions. You know, I'm the author of the Traffic and Victims Protection Act, and matter of fact, [22:30] right now, Kawisi Mifuni and I are trying to reauthorize it with a Frederick Douglass Act. We're [22:35] hoping to get it on the floor soon, but Haiti has been a special case of trafficking. Years ago, [22:44] I held a series of hearings with Nancy Brevard and others from the Airline Ambassadors International, [22:49] and they broke up trafficking rings coming, law enforcement did, but they were the eyes and ears [22:55] as flight attendants. When all of these kids were coming up from Haiti, being sold into modern-day [23:00] slavery as little kids. Horrific abuse, and I'm wondering if, you know, with all of the work [23:07] you're doing and trying to do, if you could shed any light on what's being done now to try to mitigate [23:13] this exploitation of children and women through trafficking rings. Secondly, the church, I don't [23:20] want to go too long, we only got five minutes, but the church is, what role are they playing? Because [23:24] usually, the faith community can play a very positive role. Obviously, when the guys are running around [23:29] with the gangs with guns, it's harder, obviously, and when, as you said, it's not that the gangs have [23:35] gotten stronger, but the government has gotten weaker. So, I wonder what we can do to further [23:40] fortify their message from the pulpit, from the cardinals to the priest in the pulpit, and every [23:47] other part of the faith community. And finally, you know, I remember when the Harlan County was turned back, [23:52] that ship, because there were a few protesters out on the docks, the mistakes that were made with the [23:59] Clintons after the horrific earthquake, I've read books about it, and have spoken about it, and [24:05] when they didn't really do the job of rebuilding that should have been done. And I just hope, you know, [24:12] I know we're going to get it right this time, at least I believe we will, especially with your wisdom [24:16] being brought to bear on all of this. So, trafficking, children, and the church. [24:25] Thank you, Sue Chairman, also from past days, and thanks for the kind words. [24:32] On the trafficking front, I mean, this is what we're trying to shut off throughout the whole region, [24:39] not just in Haiti, but as you say, that there's been some particularly horrific abuses in the past. [24:45] But, you know, but our ability to have stopped illegal immigration coming in, I think we've helped in [24:53] that respect. But the other thing you find is that the same groups that are trafficking humans are [24:58] trafficking drugs, they're trafficking arms in the other direction, and so on. And one of the reasons [25:04] that the administration declared the gangs to be foreign terrorist organizations was that that gives us [25:11] some extra tools. We can prosecute people in the United States who provide material support to such an [25:18] organization. And we've seen some evidence of this already with a couple of the Haitian elite type [25:27] leaders who were living in the United States and financing these kinds of bad activities in Haiti, [25:35] losing their immigration status and having to leave the country. So, there'll be hopefully more of [25:41] that to come. But we're trying to put a real law enforcement effort on there. Churches, you're [25:48] absolutely right, are one of the linchpins of the place and are trying to stabilize people. It's [25:58] interesting, though, as Mr. Meeks mentioned the need for a Haitian-led solution. When you do polling in [26:05] Haiti now, something like 90 percent of the population really want an elected government. They want to pick their [26:11] own government. They've had too many years of well-intended foreigners picking people for them, [26:18] usually not on the grounds that they were going to be the best leader, but because the people they [26:23] were picking could cause having their gang connections could cause disarray in the streets [26:29] and said, oh, we need to bring them into the government in order to avoid them trying to overthrow the [26:34] government. Bad idea. That has not worked out at all well. So, I think that's what we're hearing a lot from [26:40] the churches, too, is let's get moving on. And you see it reflected in the views of the Prime Minister of [26:48] Haiti that elections are very, very important to get to that kind of Haitian-led government. And then, [26:55] finally, I will observe, I was around when the Harlan counties steamed away. That was a very, very bad day, [27:02] because it totally discredited the whole international effort at the time. So, you know, [27:11] we do not want that to happen again. This time we've got to make it work. And make it work [27:18] so that you end up with a Haiti that's Haitian-led and stable. Again, I'm putting a plug for the [27:25] Hope Help Act, because I think our view is the way to get Haiti to be self-sufficient and so on, [27:32] is it's got to be able to attract investment that will create jobs and so on, and not have it be [27:38] jobs created by the government with aid funds from other countries. So, that would be my points. Thank [27:45] you. Ranking Member Meeks. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First, [27:50] Mr. Chairman, I want to thank you. I want you to know that I am 100 percent supporting behind you [27:57] and want you to be successful, because without security, we can't make the next step. And so, [28:02] that's really important. And I'm ready to work with anybody that's going to make that happen. [28:06] So, I listen to you intently. I don't disagree with you. I think that we need to make sure that [28:11] we have the security on the ground so that we can then have the implementation that the Ambassador [28:16] was just talking about of creating a Haitian-led government. But we can't do it without [28:20] security. So, I just want you to know that. Now, my concern goes towards, Mr. Ambassador, [28:28] that on November 28th, the DHS issued a notice terminating TPS for Haiti, which is really my [28:37] focus. And they said that there are no extraordinary and temporary conditions in Haiti [28:42] that prevent the Haitian nationals from returning in safety. So, I want to know, [28:48] that after Secretary Noem made the decision, she said she did it with consultation of other partners, [28:57] etc. But can you tell me, was the Department of State consulted by Secretary Noem's decision [29:06] to terminate TPS for Haiti? Were you consulted or anything of that nature? I know where you were [29:11] previously, and Mr. Smith talked about your great work, humanitarian work, but were you consulted [29:16] on that at all, Mr. Ambassador? Were we consulted on? Yes. I don't believe so, [29:25] sir. But I would observe that you have to look at the security. I mean, we do provide DHS with [29:34] country conditions reports. And in Haiti, as the Prime Minister will tell you, out of the 10 departments [29:44] of Haiti, he said we could have elections in seven of them tomorrow, that they're stable and life goes [29:51] on as normal. It's Port-au-Prince and Artibonit and the West that are the problemaries. Which is huge, [29:59] where most of the population is. But what I'm really trying to be focused on here is, you know, [30:04] we've got over 300,000 Haitians that may be pushed back into Haiti, given the conditions that I heard [30:14] the Colonel talking about earlier. And you, you know, there was, for example, roughly 5600 homicides in [30:22] 2024 alone, almost 157 percent increase from 2022, according to the UN. And the State Department's [30:29] own travel advisory rates Port-au-Prince as a critical threat crime for location. So I was [30:35] wondering, and I don't know whether you can or not, you know, at the same time, you know, the president, [30:39] of course, the administration has expanded refugee admissions for white Afrikaners from South Africa, [30:47] citing safety concerns there. But I see and hear and listen to you intently of the safety concerns [30:54] that are taking place currently in Haiti. I don't know if you can walk the committee through the [31:01] department's assessment of Haiti that may have led the administration to conclude that it was safe to [31:07] end TPS for Haitians. You know, this is something that members in my constituency have a large Haitian [31:15] constantly asking me, you know, intensively. So I was wondering if there's a way that you can [31:21] give us or walk us through how it's now safe for these individuals, [31:27] determined, how it was determined that it was safe for these individuals to come back to Haiti. [31:31] Well, Congressman, I'm not the greatest expert on TPS, but I would observe that with respect to all these [31:40] different countries that had TPS, many of these have been temporary that have gone on for decades. [31:48] We had in Central America TPS status that was granted because of hurricanes that occurred in the 90s. [31:56] In the case of Haiti, I think it was the earthquake in 2010. [31:59] I understand. I don't mean to cut you off. It's just I'm limited on time. [32:03] But because, you know, we're talking about an influx, and I don't see if they have an additional [32:09] 300,000 people coming in, given the scenario, that's going to help even help the colonel with [32:15] what he's trying to do. The other thing that I just wanted to ask real quickly, you know, [32:20] I passed I had a bill that passed in a bipartisan way called the Haitian Criminal Collusion Transparency [32:25] Act, passed with bipartisan support. So it was the intent of the bill is to go after those individuals [32:32] that are running the corrupt political and economic networks that finance the gangs, [32:38] traffic weapons and profit from Haiti's instability, because it seems to me that they've gone by with [32:43] impunity. And I think that we've got to go. So I was wondering if you could tell me if you know, [32:47] have any individuals been sanctioned in Haiti in response to the bipartisan report, you know, [32:53] that are supporting putting the money in? I haven't heard of any. But do you know whether or not [32:59] anybody has been sanctioned? Well, I mentioned the the people who were expelled from the United States, [33:06] they lost their LPR status because of that kind of behavior. Others have others have been sanctioned. [33:13] I'm cannot tell you which of the different legal authorities were used for those sanctions. But [33:19] there there are people who have OFAC sanctions on them because of of their financing of the of the [33:25] gangs. So let me just say this. I think it's important that if someone has been sanctioned, [33:30] we need to know their names. The Haitian people need to know their names, because when I talk to the [33:34] Haitian people on the ground, they say these people continue to walk around with impunity, [33:40] and that makes them afraid also. So if I mean, that's why we passed this bipartisan way. [33:45] Those names should be given to you. Those names should be exposed to the general public [33:50] so that the Haitian people in America know that these folks are not walking around with impunity and [33:55] that we're going to make sure that they are held accountable for supporting financing, et cetera, [34:00] the violence that continues to take place in Haiti. We got to get rid of them so that we go, [34:04] so the kernel can be successful. We create the institution that we have the elections that [34:08] you're talking about. I yield back. Representative Wilson. Thank you very much, [34:13] Chairman Brian Mass for bringing these tremendous witnesses here today on such an important issue. [34:18] And in particular, Ambassador Kozak, you're so appreciated with your service in Minsk, Havana, [34:24] now helping focus on Port-au-Prince. We're all hopeful for fair and free elections in these countries of [34:31] Belarus, Cuba, and even Haiti. And nobody can accuse you of being sent to luxurious Caribbean [34:42] operations. With that in mind, too, I'm so grateful for ranking member Meeks, who is promoting today [34:49] bipartisanship with Chairman Brian Mast. And Ambassador, the administration has called the Biden era [34:54] MSS mission and ineffective boondoggle. It costs the American taxpayers nearly $1 billion to field [35:03] roughly 1,000 personnel, mostly police, with no mandate to take on the gangs. And can you verify [35:10] again one more time how much per patrolman that is? Yeah, I think it works out to about half a million [35:19] dollars per person per year. Not a very good ratio there. Well, that's just startling, and the American [35:28] people need to know that. Even Congressman Scott Perry didn't know that. And so it's an amazing fact, [35:34] sadly, to be acknowledged. When the final contingent left in April, the gangs controlled more territory [35:43] than when the mission began. What is the State Department's assessment of what went wrong, [35:48] and what does that failure tell us, how the United States should approach missions going forward? [35:53] Well, I'll look to the Colonel to comment, too. But I'd just say from my standpoint, I think it's [36:01] both quantity and quality, that a thousand people was not nearly enough to deal with the threat that [36:10] existed. And on the other hand, it's the mandate. They were supposed to be there to support the Haitian [36:16] police, which was a completely decimated bunch, and not to be able to go out and run operations of [36:26] their own. So that's what we've tried to correct with the gang suppression forces, to make it [36:32] much bigger. In the meantime, too, our colleagues in the Bureau of Narcotics and Law Enforcement [36:40] have been working with the Haitian government to train up another 4,000 police by next year. [36:49] So this, I mean, the police right now on the books, I think it's about 13,000. The actual people who show [36:56] up on any given day are probably more like 6,000. And of those, something like 400 do most of the fighting. [37:03] So the whole idea here is to get the Haitians beefed up, but also to have the gang suppression [37:10] force sizable enough and with a more military kinetic-type mandate where they can go out, [37:17] clear these bad guys out of an area, and then have enough Haitian forces to come in and take it. [37:23] The Kenyans would go on patrol and mix it up with the gangs, but as soon as they left, the gangs were [37:30] right back there again because there was nobody to hold the territory at all. So those were some [37:35] of the problems that they faced, as well as just having an extreme tooth-to-tail ratio in favor of [37:44] the tail. Over. Indeed. I'm glad, General, that all of this is being monitored. Bangladesh should be [37:51] applauded, Ambassador, to provide the Gang Suppression Task Force's largest contingent, nearly 1,600 [38:00] military personnel. And the schedule counts on more than double the force in September. But [38:05] Bangladesh had to freeze its deployment once this spring, and now it's being delayed again. What can [38:12] we do to help the courageous people of Bangladesh to be able to participate in general? Yeah, thank you, [38:21] Congressman. That's a good question. I'm very thrilled to state today that Bangladesh is in good shape for [38:28] the deployment. Their deployment is back on track. They have conducted two reconnaissance visits to [38:34] Port-au-Prince, including with their senior leadership. They have re-pledged all the forces [38:41] that were pledged previously, and they are on full glide slope to deploy as anticipated. So we're in good [38:48] position. In fact, I will be traveling to Bangladesh on the 8th of August to do the pre-deployment visit. [38:53] Well, indeed, it's so refreshing to see the country of Bangladesh have such a participation and be [39:01] so recognized by the United States and even in the Western Hemisphere. So thank you for your service, [39:07] and again, assisting the military of Bangladesh. I yield back. Thank you, Representative Wilson. My [39:14] understanding of the TPS was actually that it so decimated the police force. That's in part why they were not [39:22] there to support the MSS. Actually, the police force had to start going to telling people they had to [39:30] pick up their checks in person because so many of them came to the United States and kept collecting [39:34] their direct deposits that there were no police there to do the work that they were supposed to be [39:39] doing. Big problem. Indeed. I was wondering, how are they being paid? Thank you. Representative Keating. [39:45] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Kozak, it's fair to say in Haiti there's a fair amount of crime and [39:56] kidnapping and terrorism and unrest and healthcare capacities severely constrained. Don't you agree? [40:08] Certainly in the areas that the gangs have controlled, there's a lot of that type of behavior. [40:15] Yeah. Colonel, that's why you're there and you're doing your work and we appreciate your work there. [40:20] So if that's the case, and I guess that's why the State Department, you know, issued a do not travel [40:30] advisory in the area because of those severe risks. Doesn't that make sense? Do you agree with that? [40:36] Yes, sir. But I would note that the do not travel advisory or any of our travel advisories are aimed at [40:43] the risks posed to American visiting a country, not necessarily- So you're trying to say the crime, [40:49] you're saying all the crime and everything else there is just on Americans, they're not on other [40:53] Haitians? If you're looking at kidnappings and so on, Americans are juicy targets for kidnappers [40:59] because you can extort a lot of- But the crimes are there and there are also crimes imposed on other [41:05] Haitians that are there and other peoples that are there. I mean, they're just not saying let's do crime [41:09] to Americans. That being the case- Crime affects people across the board, but the [41:15] travel advisory is aimed at Americans. If the crime is so severe and we have a colonel [41:21] who's, you know, leading an effort at suppression of those gangs, then with 350,000 Haitians who are on [41:32] TPS, temporary protective status here, and these are adults and they have work permits, and they're in [41:41] positions in my state and others of critical need, long-term care, hospitals, hospitalities, agriculture. [41:50] I mean, these are people that are here. So why- What's the purpose? There's a contradiction, obviously, [41:56] in the staff. It's not safe. We have a task force, a gang suppression force there militarily, and these [42:05] people were given status because of that danger. Now, it's all of a sudden safe to send them back? [42:11] Can you explain that contradiction? It's an obvious contradiction. Congressman, I would- I would say, [42:23] note for- I don't know the figures for Haiti exactly, but when I look at TPS beneficiaries in other [42:31] countries, usually one thing you'll find is that a great deal of that total number are people who've [42:37] already adjusted status and have LPR status in the United States, so they probably won't be going back. [42:42] The TPS people are, and there's 350,000 Haitians in that regard, and I can tell you right now- [42:49] What I'm saying is when you look at the 350,000, if you dig deeper in your figures, you'll find those [42:54] were beneficiaries originally, but many of them will have adjusted the status during the decades [43:00] that they were in the United States, and so that's not somebody who's going back. [43:05] Well, they're being told these people are now having to give their employers notice right now. [43:11] They're saying, hey, they're sending me back. And we're hearing from these employers. We're hearing from [43:17] co-workers. We're hearing from chambers of commerce and industry leaders about that, but- and that's [43:24] important to us here in the United States, but they're also, in terms of helping the people in Haiti, [43:29] so many of these people are sending back remittances. You know, they're working, they're saving, [43:33] they're scrounging for what they have, and they're sending it back to their families there [43:37] to help them. So why is this not a good thing? They're here. We're getting help. They're here [43:44] because they were in danger. Many of them were targeted, and as the Colonel knows, these people [43:49] from the early ages, eight, nine years old, many of them are already being pressured into gang activities, [43:57] and future gang activities. So how can we take a win-win situation where we're helping people, [44:03] helping the United States, helping our economy, and helping Haitians because that money is coming [44:09] back to help support families. We're taking a win-win situation, and you know what this administration's [44:14] doing? It's making that win-win situation lose-lose. I mean, we're here with the State Department, [44:21] and I'll say the State Department acted with its advisory, but what about the other administration [44:28] members? Are you in contact at all with Stephen Miller? Have you ever talked to Stephen Miller? [44:35] Yes. And what does he think? Does he have this concern? Not on this particular topic, [44:39] but let me comment on what you want. If I could, so I'm just asking. So you never talked to Stephen [44:44] Miller about this particular topic? Have you talked to Secretary Rubio about this particular [44:50] topic about what I raised here in my question? Yes, yes. And what does he have to say? I mean, [44:55] he's a reasonable man. Let me comment back. He supported these things when he was in the Senate. [44:58] Yeah. TPS is supposed to be for people who are in the United States, and an earthquake happens or [45:07] something, and you don't want to send them back. Oh, it's also for violence, sir. You know it yourself. [45:12] It's if their lives are in jeopardy there with the conditions. What we've ended up with, [45:15] Representative, is people using that for years and years and years. I mean, people who come here [45:21] lawfully also send home remittances and so on. And that's a good thing. Well, these people are here [45:28] lawfully. They're here as part of that. They are lawful. That's the point. I'm afraid I'm going to [45:33] have to yield back because my time is over. Representative Kim. Thank you, Chairman and [45:41] Ranking Member Mix for hosting today's hearing. And I want to thank Ambassador Kozak and Colonel [45:48] Gorkoski for joining us today. The State Department's Bureau of International Narcotics and Law [45:55] Enforcement Affairs developed the P4000 initiative to quickly train, recruit, and equip new Haitian [46:04] national policy officers. And I know Ambassador Kozak, you touched on this, so thank you for that. [46:09] And I believe last fall, the program officially began training new Haitian national policy officers [46:15] to combat armed gangs. Colonel Gorkoski, this mission's end state is a Haiti that can secure itself. Today, [46:27] only 100 Haitian police officers do most of the fighting. The P4000 program is actively striving to [46:36] train more, understand? So what do you think is a realistic timeline for Haitian forces to take the lead? [46:42] And what more do they need from us to get there? Thanks for that question, Congresswoman. And this [46:51] is an important one because this dictates our exit criteria for the expression force. So I can't [46:57] emphasize this enough. The INL-supported P4000 program has been an extensive time multiplier in growing [47:07] these forces. Not only are we growing the size of the forces, but they have changed the instruction to be [47:14] more applicable not to disasters or things like this, but to the counter-gang operations they are [47:19] conducting. To date, they have over 2,000 personnel who have gone through this, and by March of 27, [47:25] that will be a 40 percent increase, 4,000 new security force personnel. So by the end of 2026, [47:32] we should see an HMP number. The ambassador mentioned the total number around 14,000, but it's really only [47:39] about 6,000 prior to P4000 who were coming to work every day. So by the end of 2026, we should have [47:46] about 8,000 Haitian national police, in addition to 2,000 FAAD, Haitian military personnel. 2027 projections [47:56] are around 10,000 Haitian police, and by 2028, we're looking at 13,000. So combined security forces, [48:03] Haitian and military, by 2028, we're looking at about 19,000. Well, that begs the question, [48:09] how many do we need? And if you add in the gang suppression force, of course, you augment those [48:14] numbers a little bit. In peacetime scenarios, academic figures and doctrinal figures state that you need [48:22] about 2.8 security force personnel per 1,000 people. So for Haiti, that's about 30,000 personnel, [48:30] over 30,000 personnel. If you combined Haitian national police and military personnel without [48:35] the gang suppression force, you know, we're probably looking somewhere 2029. But that's, [48:40] again, without the gang suppression force. Not saying the gang suppression force needs to stay there that [48:44] long, but that's the point at which Haiti will have some numbers able to secure themselves. [48:51] There's also the issue of quality, right? Quantity and quality. We need folks who can, of course, [48:56] be present, but also those who can do the job effectively and not contribute to a deteriorating [49:00] security situation. Thank you very much. Ambassador Kozak, the State Department has played a central [49:07] role in supporting the gang suppression force through diplomatic engagement with partner nations [49:12] and the United Nations. So what specific diplomatic steps has the Bureau of Western Hemisphere Affairs [49:19] taken to secure and sustain contributions from these partner countries? And how are you addressing any [49:26] gaps in participation or logistical challenges from international contributors? So the question was [49:35] about contributions to the force. I think there are two types here. One is the, as we mentioned in [49:43] testimony, the logistics are being done through assessed contributions in the UN system. So the US gets [49:50] stuck with like 25% of that because that's our share of UN assessed contributions, but other UN members [49:56] that are picking up the other 75% of the logistics. The pay like for the salaries of the personnel and so on [50:05] is voluntary contributions. And we've had really very good response on that. Some of our colleagues in the [50:13] in the standing group of partners and particularly Canada has taken on the job of urging others to [50:19] contribute finances to that. And we've had contributions from Canada, from the Dominican Republic, Germany, [50:27] France, Qatar. So there's a wide variety of countries that aren't part of the force that are that are [50:34] contributing to that. And I think we have a fairly robust 117 million or something in that fund right now. [50:41] So that's, that's been the effort. And so far, it's been quite successful. [50:47] Great. Well, thank you. My time's up. I yield back. [50:51] Representative Barra. [50:52] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First, I'd like to associate myself with the ranking members' comments about [50:59] TPS. You know, I think it does betray our values as Americans, regardless of why the individuals came to [51:08] the United States, sending them back into harm's way without the stability that we hope to accomplish [51:16] in Haiti, I think is, is a betrayal of who we are as Americans. That said, you know, the goal here is [51:23] to create some stability in Haiti. I think my friend from New Jersey, Mr. Smith, talked about getting it [51:29] right. That's been a challenge, right? We've tried multiple different things. We've tried external [51:35] leadership. We've thrown money at situations. And we've had a, you know, a worse situation today than, [51:42] you know, we, we've had a long time. And I think Chairman Maas talked about the proximity of Haiti [51:48] to the United States and, you know, to have a Mogadishu type situation. And Port-au-Prince is not a good [51:55] thing for stability in the United States, either. I'd like to just go through, stepwise, what getting right [52:03] might look like. And, you know, obviously, correct me if I'm, I'm wrong. You know, Ambassador, you talked [52:11] about, you know, we tried external leadership in Haiti and propping up external leaders. The Haitian [52:17] people want a Haitian-led solution. So getting it right, the first step would be getting elections [52:23] and allowing the Haitian people to elect a leader. That may not be a leader that we would have selected. [52:32] That may be a different leader. It may be a leader that is a strong person who is going to bring [52:37] stability to institutions and so forth. Step two would be rebuilding at least some semblance of [52:45] functional institutions that can keep the energy on, that can, you know, educate their kids, [52:51] create some stability, reconstituting a police and security force. We won't get to 30,000 immediately, [52:58] but, you know, you have to make that investment so the Haitians can protect themselves. Colonel, [53:04] you talked about, you know, moving away from a peacekeeping force to a force that in some ways [53:12] is a military force that can retake territory and hold territory. Part of what failed in the past was, [53:20] I think, Ambassador, you talked about Kenyan forces and others going in, clearing areas, [53:25] but not holding areas. Is that an accurate statement? So that would be starting with external [53:32] forces to help clear territory, hold territory, but ultimately Haitian security forces long-term [53:39] have to be able to hold that territory, right? Create peace and security. Is that an accurate statement? [53:46] And then, you know, I think there's got to be some economic hope in the future, right? So one key [53:54] step is we extended the HOPE-HELP Act for a year. That's going to expire. There is some urgency that [54:01] we need to keep the HOPE-HELP Act going. Is that, would that be your assessment, Ambassador? [54:07] Yes, Representative. We favor a multi-year reauthorization of HOPE-HELP, because what we're, [54:13] what you find is that businesses, if it's only year by year, they aren't, the uncertainty means that [54:21] they're going to move somewhere else where, where it's a little more stability. So we would be [54:26] strongly in favor, administration strongly in favor of a multi-year reauthorization of HOPE-HELP, [54:31] and that helps your other issues as well. And then, just from a security perspective, [54:36] we should think about Port-au-Prince as one security challenge. We should think about other [54:42] parts of Haiti where there's less gang activity, less lawlessness, as a different type of challenge. [54:50] Is that an accurate statement? So I've got a minute left, you know, based on that. Is that the right [54:56] priority? Elect a government, reestablish some functional institutions, build police and security [55:03] forces, work with them to take and hold territory, and then, you know, rebuild some functional economy? [55:16] Yes, sir. I mean, I, I would say all of the above, and I don't think there, there's no reason that, [55:21] that those, those various steps you just laid out can't be done in, in parallel to a great degree. [55:28] Colonel? Yeah, just to emphasize that you can't, it's not a checklist, you can't do one and then [55:34] the next. I know you know this, but these are all influencing each other. It's kind of a Gordian [55:39] knot, and we have to make sure we have the appropriate amount of pressure on each one of those issues to [55:44] move forward successfully. And this is not going to be a six-month proposition. This may be a longer term [55:50] proposition to create some stability. Yes, sir. Okay, thanks. I'll yield back. [55:56] Thank you, Representative Barrett. Before I recognize Representative Ratawagon, I will submit for the [56:01] record the Haitian TPS authorization, which does outline the reason for the 2010 Haitian TPS, [56:10] the, the 18-month TPS that went on for 16 years for catastrophic earthquake, loss of life, displacement, [56:18] and collapse of infrastructure, as well as a few other things. Submit that for the record. [56:23] Representative Ratawagon. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I want to thank you and the ranking member [56:30] for holding this important hearing today. My question is for Ambassador Kozak. Under Resolution 2793, [56:40] the Special Representative was required to give the Security Council a strategy with concrete, [56:46] concrete, time-bound benchmarks, no later than nine months after adoption. That deadline, June 30th, [56:53] passed three weeks ago, and no strategy has been made public. Was it delivered at all? Are its benchmarks [57:01] genuinely measurable? And will you commit to providing them to this committee? [57:06] Congressman, my understanding is that the Special Representative did provide the benchmarks [57:15] and so on on the 29th of June. So just meted by a day, I think the, the, the nine-month limit, but [57:23] there, there is such a thing. Maybe the Colonel can describe it in a little more detail. [57:27] Yes, Congresswoman. So those were submitted. There are three major priority focus areas. They're in line [57:34] with the mandate. So the first one is, of course, territory held by the gangs and ensuring that that [57:38] territory is retaken. And the benchmarks are focused on achieving that. The second one is security of [57:44] critical infrastructure. So everything from the seaports to the airport, to the roadways, to the [57:49] borders, security of that infrastructure by Haitian security forces, the gangs pressure force initially [57:54] is the second element. And then the third one is security forces of Haiti. So their, their growth and [58:01] ability to take over that mission in the longer term. But those were provided on schedule and they are [58:06] working towards those goals now. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You'll back. Representative, [58:11] Representative Amo. Thank you to our witnesses for being here. I'm grateful for your work. Today, [58:21] we're discussing the dangerous conditions in Haiti, while the Trump administration ends temporary [58:27] protective status for around 350,000 Haitians. The administration has determined that there are no [58:34] conditions that, quote, prevent Haitian nationals from returning in safety. The administration has claimed [58:40] that Haiti is safe enough to deport TPS holders while simultaneously being so dangerous that it [58:46] requires millions of dollars to support an international security mission. So let's state facts [58:52] that have been affirmed by lots of the testimony in this hearing. Haiti is not a place where those under [58:59] TPS can safely return. If the president moves forward with the deportation of Haitian TPS holders, [59:06] he will be subjecting more than 300,000 people to extreme levels of violence, sexual exploitation, [59:11] and a dire humanitarian crisis. That's 300,000 lives that will never be the same. In my home state [59:19] of Rhode Island, over 1,700 Haitian TPS holders are facing this uncertainty and threat of violence. [59:25] This pain won't be restricted to Haitian TPS holders and their loved ones. It will reverberate throughout [59:31] our economy as our hospitals, long-term care facilities, schools, and small businesses lose [59:37] the Haitian employees who keep our communities running. Haitian TPS holders make America stronger, [59:43] contributing around 5.9 billion dollars to the U.S. economy each year. Instead of supporting these [59:50] businesses or simply upholding our values as a nation of immigrants, the president has decided to move [59:56] forward to end TPS. Now, Trump hasn't started the mass deportation of TPS holders, and already more [1:00:03] than half of Haitians are relying on humanitarian assistance. Adding hundreds of thousands more [1:00:09] people to the already struggling island will only make the situation worse. In 2024, the United States [1:00:15] provided around 60 percent of humanitarian assistance to Haiti. But Ambassador Kozak, up to 50 percent of the [1:00:23] life-saving programs for health care, HIV treatment, food security, and clean water treatment were [1:00:31] canceled during your tenure. In June, the United Nations effort to provide aid to Haitians only had 25 percent [1:00:39] of the funds it needed and was forced to limit their life-saving operations to protect the 1.47 million [1:00:46] people forced to flee their homes, the more than 5.8 million people facing acute food insecurity, [1:00:51] and the crumbling health system. So, Ambassador, my question for you is how do you plan to deal with [1:00:56] the competing needs for health care, food, clean water, and security? Do you have a plan to seek [1:01:02] additional funding to meet the moment and the challenges in Haiti? Yes, sir. With respect to the [1:01:10] your last point, I don't have a total for you, but I know I sign off pretty frequently on grants for [1:01:18] humanitarian assistance to Haiti. It's food, water, medicine, and I think it's in the hundreds of [1:01:27] millions that we have provided, as well as food under the Food for Peace program. So, I am not aware that [1:01:39] there's a big gap there. We've had no real problems getting the administration to provide the assistance that [1:01:47] that appears to be required for those purposes. So, that- And you don't believe that the reductions [1:01:56] that we've seen have had a material impact on your ability to carry out the mission? [1:02:03] Yeah, I think it's, you have to go back and look at all the different subcategories of aid and so on, [1:02:08] but we've, one of the things that was exempt from any cuts was life-saving assistance, such as food, [1:02:15] medicine, and water, and we've continued to provide that. So, sometimes people will say, [1:02:22] well, this program got cancelled and it's like, yeah, but we moved it to another funding mechanism [1:02:29] and it's still there. And is it not the case that, you know, you, so you're still executing, [1:02:34] but is it not the case that some of the challenges will be exacerbated with the culmination of TPS? [1:02:40] Well, I think you can, you can look at it both ways. As the chairman mentioned, you know, some of [1:02:47] those very productive people that you're mentioning could be very helpful in Haiti as police officers, [1:02:55] as people working in business there. One of the problems I've seen with Haiti over the years is, [1:03:00] even if you go back 30 years ago, they had nothing close to 30,000 security forces. They had always a [1:03:09] lot fewer than that. And then successive governments relied on gangs to do some of the things that you [1:03:17] would look to security forces to do. And that's just, that's grown out of control. But you're not [1:03:24] going to get, you're not going to get the Haitians able to fund security forces of the kind they need [1:03:30] until they've got some kind of an economy going. And that means having, having people there who can [1:03:34] be productive. Ambassador, my time is both ways. My time's expired, but I would conclude by saying [1:03:40] this. The administration knows that Haiti's facing this immunity humanitarian crisis and adding more [1:03:46] people to it only makes it worse. And so I hope the secretary of state, the president reversed the [1:03:51] termination of TPS and continue to work with you to make the situation better. With that, I yield back. [1:03:56] Representative Perry. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. Thanks, gentlemen, for being here. I think I need to make a comment on TPS, [1:04:03] since it's become the subject much of this committee in this hearing at this time. It seems to me my [1:04:10] colleagues on the other side of the aisle must think that it sounds like that they would export [1:04:15] all 12 million Haitians to America because it's so dangerous there. If the answer to making it secure [1:04:21] is TPS, then the only other answer can be have every single citizen of Haiti come to the United States [1:04:29] of America and leave Haiti, which is, of course, patently absurd, as it should be. The other issue [1:04:36] is if you if every good person in Haiti that's not involved in organized crime, gang activity, what have [1:04:43] you, leaves Haiti, how is Haiti ever going to get better? Somebody has to love Haiti and want to save [1:04:50] Haiti. And to me, it seems like that most likely is the good people of Haiti. With that having been said, [1:04:56] I want to level set here because I think we got to have a discussion of how we got here, where we are. [1:05:01] Since the 2010 earthquake alone, the United States has provided over 5.1 billion dollars in assistance [1:05:08] to Haiti. USAID alone distributed, dispersed roughly 4.4 billion in that window, and the international [1:05:16] community pledged upward of 13 billion. That's just that one disaster of a population of 12 million [1:05:23] people. That's $1,500 per person. The United States has rebuilt clinics, funded elections, [1:05:28] propped up governments, sent marines in 1994, sent them again in 2004, back to UN stabilization force [1:05:34] for 13 years. Let's let's not forget introduced a cholera epidemic that killed thousands of Haitians [1:05:41] and triggered a sexual abuse scandal involving UN peacekeepers. And after all that spending and all [1:05:48] that nation building, Haiti today has no functioning government, no elected president, [1:05:52] no functioning police force capable of controlling its own capital, and gangs that by most estimates [1:05:59] control the large majority of Port-au-Prince. We launched the Kenyan-led multinational security [1:06:05] mission in 2024, and the administration itself has acknowledged we already spent roughly a billion [1:06:11] dollars on Haitian security assistance and pledged 300 more directly to that mission. By nearly every [1:06:18] count, it's been ineffective, undermanned, underfunded, unable to dislodge the gangs, and now we're told [1:06:23] the answer is to relabel it, stand up the gang suppression force, target 5,500 troops, and try [1:06:29] again. I'm here to ask the committee, why should we believe the people on this committee, the American [1:06:35] people that we represent, that the fourth or fifth iteration of the same basic model, foreign troops, [1:06:41] foreign funding, weak Haitian institutions, propped up indefinitely, produces a different result than the [1:06:47] last four decades did. Every single metric of state capacity has gotten worse since we involved in [1:06:54] this and has not gotten better. That having been said, I'm glad that you're that you've said that [1:07:01] the benchmarks and the gate matrix were delivered to the Security Council by I think you said uh the 29th [1:07:08] of June. Is that correct, Ambassador? So what I'm wondering, Colonel, I think your mission is a year? [1:07:14] Is that about 12 months? Is that what it is? The mandate was initially authorized for a year. [1:07:19] Okay, so we've got the metrics, we've got the timeline. When, how often will you assess your success [1:07:27] or failure? And I don't mean failure in terms of personal, but look, the mission's either going to be [1:07:33] successful or not. So how often and what iterations are you going to make that assessment? How will we find [1:07:39] out? And what's the plan after a year if we're at the same place we are now or substantially at the [1:07:44] same place? Yeah, thanks for that important question, Congressman. Um, so the, the frequency of [1:07:50] assessment is quarterly. They owe that, that quarterly update on the benchmarks and metrics, uh, to, to the [1:07:55] gang suppression force, uh, standing group of partners. Um, but, but the latter part of your question is [1:08:01] incredibly important, which is how do we, at which point do we say, hey, we're not meeting the mark here. [1:08:07] How do we need to adjust course? The reason it's quarterly is be, is exactly for that purpose. We [1:08:13] need to take in, in stride successes or failures and make adjustments. We need to be dynamic and able [1:08:19] to adjust to meet the conditions. I'll note that the, the threat we face now is nowhere near the threat [1:08:25] that was faced prior to 2020. This is a completely different threat. Two U.S. designated foreign terrorist [1:08:31] organizations, increasing alliances between these separate gangs. Uh, the threat is, is significant [1:08:38] and we will only just be hitting our stride as the mandate needs to be renewed in October. So, uh, the, [1:08:45] the measurement is important. We need to maintain agility, uh, to make adjustments and that's what the [1:08:50] standing group of partners, the oversight body is for, which the United States. So one final question, [1:08:55] after the year has expired and elapsed and the assessment is, is that we're no better off, which [1:09:01] is, I think the most likely outcome. Are you willing to, to, uh, to tell this committee that it's time to [1:09:08] abandon at least that mission and, and either try something new, but not waste any more dollars on that [1:09:15] particular? Are you prepared to do that if that's the case? Yes, sir. That's my professional responsibility. [1:09:20] However, I do not think that will be the case. We are already seeing the, the strides, uh, you know, [1:09:25] the improvements that have been made just in the first 30 days of operations. I mentioned at the top [1:09:31] in the past 30 days, we've learned more about the gangs that we knew in the previous 30 months. [1:09:36] So we are seeing the, the, the progress that's being made. Thanks, Chairman Aguil. Representative Ocheski. [1:09:42] Thank you, Chairman Mast, uh, ranking member Meeks and to our witnesses for being here today. [1:09:51] The stories coming out of Haiti are devastating. Poverty is deepening. Governance is collapsing. [1:09:58] Families are being forced from their homes and children are paying the highest price. More than [1:10:05] 1600 schools have closed because of violence, cutting 243,000 children off from education. For many of [1:10:14] these kids, schools was the only place they received a meal. When education and safety collapsed, child [1:10:21] recruitment by armed gangs intensifies. In 2025, powerful gangs that now control large parts of [1:10:28] the country nearly tripled their recruitment of children. Today, up to half of all armed groups [1:10:36] in Haiti involve children. How terrible is that? In conflicts like this, children are treated as cheap [1:10:46] and they're treated as expendable. And when poverty, hunger, and the absence of schooling leaves [1:10:51] families with almost no alternatives, recruitment becomes almost inevitable. It's all part of the [1:10:58] terrible realities of a war economy. One child reported earning a thousand dollars a week, [1:11:05] a massive sum of money in a country where 60% of its population lives in poverty. In other cases, [1:11:11] we hear terrifying stories of homeless children as young as 11 years old being recruited and forced to [1:11:18] burn the bodies of those killed by gang members. My daughter will turn 11 years old this November. [1:11:26] It's been more than 16 years since Haiti's 2010 earthquake. In that time, some families have been [1:11:33] displaced again and again. Many of the armed group leaders today, and many of those in their ranks, [1:11:39] were children in 2010 when their own schools were shut down, their communities destroyed, and their own [1:11:45] futures never rebuilt. Now, we are sadly seeing it happen over again. And these sad cycles are unlikely [1:11:52] to change so long as the conditions for children remain unchanged. The UN Security Council laid out [1:11:59] strong safeguard measures in the Haiti Gang Suppression Forces mandate. It required that child protection be [1:12:05] taken fully into account in the planning and the conduct of its operations and that apprehended [1:12:10] children be referred to child protection actors and not detained. Colonel Grakowski, [1:12:16] can you speak to what specific child protection training GSF troops receive before deployment [1:12:22] and how compliance with handover protocols are monitored and reported? [1:12:27] Yes, thanks for that important question, Congressman. So this is a very real challenge. As you noted, [1:12:34] over 50 percent or around 50 percent of the gang population is comprised of children, [1:12:40] and survival has become the only option in these areas that they operate. We accounted for this in our [1:12:46] design of the Gang Suppression Force, and we reinforced our pre-deployment trainings. This is critical, [1:12:52] about six weeks of training that each troop contributing country participates in prior to the [1:12:57] deployment to Haiti. And this is standardized. It has to be signed off on by leadership. And we work closely [1:13:05] with human rights professionals and international organizations to ensure that this type of training is [1:13:09] included there. But additionally, and something new for the Gang Suppression Force is a mandatory two-week [1:13:15] induction training. This is two weeks of training that every single individual who arrives in Haiti [1:13:21] conducts in Haiti with Haitian officials, with Haitian experts, and with the Gang Suppression Force [1:13:28] leadership as oversight and the special representative and staff as oversight. So this is another touch point [1:13:33] that did not exist previously where we reinforce these critical components. And notably, phase one, [1:13:39] day one, is when this training specifically regarding children and human rights is covered. So it is, [1:13:46] and then, you know, throughout the deployment, there are opportunities for retraining where we will look [1:13:51] to address deficiencies and come back. Appreciate that, Colonel. And I'll do a follow-up question in [1:13:54] writing about ensuring children are treated as victims and not held in adult facilities, but happy to do that [1:13:59] offline. Mr. Kozak, can you talk about what reintegration services in the State Department [1:14:06] is using to currently support those who are demobilized or escaped child recruits, psychological [1:14:12] care, psychosocial care, family reunification, education, et cetera, in the remaining 30 seconds? [1:14:18] Yes, Representative. I think under the way this has been structured in the UN, there's a UN [1:14:25] UN office in Haiti that has responsibility for DDR, for disarmament and reintegration. It's a super [1:14:35] important function, and I think you'll find also the Prime Minister of Haiti is very keen on it as well. [1:14:42] His father was the chairman at one point of the demobilization reintegration group. So while the U.S. [1:14:51] isn't supporting that unilaterally, we've seen to it that that function is being covered. It's not part [1:14:59] of the gang suppression force. It's a separate UN activity, but it's a very important one that has [1:15:05] to work for this all to work. I appreciate that. I know we're facing a crisis. I just want to make [1:15:09] sure we don't lose focus on our kids. I know my time has expired, so I yield back to Mr. Chairman. [1:15:14] Representative Issa. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Colonel, I want to thank you for your service. I want to thank you for [1:15:20] the efforts you're making to make Haiti safer. Mr. Kozak, I'm going to put most of my questions [1:15:27] toward you. Is it accurate to say Haiti is the poorest country in our hemisphere? [1:15:34] I think at this point that is accurate. And as far back as 2004, we have had to use [1:15:42] you know force or or threat of force to realign Haiti at times, including the removal of their [1:15:48] president. That's just a piece of history, right? I don't recall us removing their president. [1:15:54] I think we we made him leave because he was putting neckties, which were tires around people [1:16:00] and lighting fires, because in fact, you know, we had a problem that couldn't be solved anyway, [1:16:07] but the change of government. Is that historically right? [1:16:10] Um, you're right about the neckties or necklaces, as they called it. But that he was doing that [1:16:17] before there was a coup against him in the 90s. We helped put him back in power again. [1:16:25] And then interestingly, he was one of the people who really decimated the Haitian security forces. [1:16:32] He had an opportunity to have a good clean force and instead [1:16:37] drove out most of the good people and tried to rule with gangs. And as I recall in 2004, what caused his [1:16:44] departure is that he and one of his gang colleagues had killed a gang leader and the guy's brother, [1:16:53] who was head of something called the Cannibal Army, marched on Port-au-Prince. And President [1:16:58] Aristide was like, okay, where are the troops to save me? And the answer was you got rid of them. [1:17:03] So the U.S. helped him escape, but we did not remove him. [1:17:08] Ah, okay. Maybe that's a better way to put it. We can go back to Truman and find similar events of [1:17:17] Haiti needing American aid because of normal weather events or political unrest. Is that also fair? [1:17:24] I think it's a very fair observation. And Colonel, I know you know the story of Captain Murphy and [1:17:32] Murphy's Law like every good Army officer, but do you also know Einstein's definition of insanity? [1:17:40] Yes, sir. Doing the same thing, expecting the same results. [1:17:42] Okay, so what you're doing has some nuanced difference, but it's substantially something we've done before. [1:17:50] My question to you and the question that I will ask after a quarter of a century, including [1:17:54] when Colin Powell and others were involved in 2004 and trying to stabilize Haiti once again, [1:18:01] is what is it we are offering to do that will change a system of government that has failed its people [1:18:11] and people who neither have the money nor the resources nor the education to turn that around [1:18:18] on their own. And I say that because after a quarter of a century, just of my sitting here on the dais [1:18:25] and starting down there when Secretary Powell first came, we obviously need something more than what [1:18:34] we're doing. We need something different than we're doing or we will continue to have Haitian boat people [1:18:40] coming to America and either being turned around or not turned around. But this will continue unless [1:18:47] the State Department in concert with others, including other nations, offer a real different [1:18:53] approach that will both stabilize the ability of people to have a government they deserve, [1:19:01] and as all do, and in fact, a government that doesn't repeatedly disfavor the benefit of their [1:19:08] people. Big, big job. Can you do it and how? Don't look at the Colonel. His job is just to make it safe. [1:19:17] Okay, I would, and I've seen a lot of this history, myself representative, I said, [1:19:25] it's not pretty. One thing that's interesting though, and we heard from some members of the [1:19:30] committee this morning about how successful Haitians are when they come to the United States. And that, [1:19:36] I remember years ago, there was a USA Today or something had a story about the most successful [1:19:42] immigrant groups. And Haiti was, Haitians were right up there on top. So the problem is not Haitians, [1:19:49] it's Haiti, and the way it's been operated for years, the political culture there. [1:19:58] We are trying to change that, this business of having, and I think you've seen it recently, [1:20:03] where we've gone after some of the politicians there because of their connections with the gangs. [1:20:09] Political and economic leaders for years have used gangs to further their own private interest. [1:20:15] Well, I look forward to a further response. I know that Chairman has a heavy gavel, [1:20:20] but I do want to thank you for the efforts. And I would like you to revise and extend with the [1:20:25] things that would cause that to happen. And Mr. Chairman, if I can say, the artist who has the [1:20:30] same last name as mine, who was famous part of the Issa family in Haiti for decades, there was a time [1:20:37] when Haiti was functional. That was a long time ago. So, Mr. Chairman, I look forward to the answer and [1:20:43] writing your back. Representative Stanton. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. [1:20:46] Thank you for our witnesses. Today, Haiti faces a deepening humanitarian and security crisis. [1:20:52] It's displaced over a million people, pushed the state toward the brink of collapse. Over the last [1:20:58] year, gang control of Port-au-Prince expanded, internal displacement levels not seen since the 2010 [1:21:05] earthquake. And this year's elections are likely to be postponed again, in large part due to insecurity in [1:21:11] the country. The Trump administration helped establish the UN-backed Gang Suppression Force, [1:21:15] GSF, to empower a new force in Haiti to neutralize gangs, rather than simply to play a support role [1:21:21] for the Haitian National Police, a key difference from the existing U.S.-backed multinational mission [1:21:27] to SBO Kozak and Colonel Gorkowski. The international community has spent more than $10 billion on security [1:21:34] assistance for Haiti over the last two decades, with a significant portion coming from the United States [1:21:40] taxpayers, yet significant security challenges still remain. For either witness, what is different [1:21:47] about the Gang Suppression Force that should give us confidence that history is not being repeated? [1:21:52] Colonel. Congressman, thanks for that question. I really can't emphasize enough how much this is an [1:21:59] apples and oranges situation. The Gang Suppression Force was fundamentally designed with the previous 11 [1:22:06] multinational force interventions in mind, and it's different in a few very critical ways. The first [1:22:11] way is the mission. This is a very much counter-gang offensive operation focused on the mission, [1:22:18] neutralizing, isolating, and deterring the gang members and securing critical infrastructure in [1:22:23] addition to security force personnel reinforcement. The second is size. This force is over five times [1:22:30] larger than the MSS force, and then if you take into account the structure, the previous mission and [1:22:36] perhaps missions mischaracterize the problem. They thought of this as a criminal problem. It is not. This [1:22:42] is a proto-insurgency, and these folks really are on the verge of something significant if we can't stem the [1:22:48] tide. So this is a four-fifths military structured force and one-fifth police force, at least at the beginning, [1:22:55] and it is comprised of components from the air, the land, and the sea. We have a maritime component for maritime [1:23:01] interdiction. We have an air component for aerial insertion and aerial interdiction. From a sustainment [1:23:07] standpoint, we're dependent upon the UN. This is a critical distinction from the MSS. These troop [1:23:12] contributing countries deploy with their own equipment. The previous mission, the United States [1:23:17] Presidential Drawdown Authority was used to provide equipment to these forces. So they fell in on [1:23:22] equipment. They didn't know how to drive. They didn't know how to operate. So fundamental difference [1:23:26] there. And then from a leadership standpoint, we designed this force with a special representative and [1:23:31] staff to observe and control critical functions that need oversight. From your perspective, [1:23:38] what does success for the gang suppression force look like? Yes, so this is fundamentally a [1:23:44] territorial problem, but as stated previously with regards to the benchmarks and indicators, the first [1:23:50] element is territory that's controlled by the gangs. That territory has to be retaken and state [1:23:55] functions have to be provided in those sections, in those areas. The second element is critical [1:24:00] infrastructure. Right now there's a NOTAM restriction on the airport because the gang threat, the the [1:24:07] gangs continuously shut down the seaport because of threats of violence and tolls. Critical infrastructure [1:24:14] must be secured and we can measure that in terms of geography. And the last element is Haitian security [1:24:20] forces. We are we are way under the amount of forces needed. The United States support of the HMP has been [1:24:28] instrumental but we need more of it. Of course we're focusing on not just short-term violence reduction [1:24:35] but long-term stability for Haiti and the people of Haiti. What steps is the administration taking [1:24:41] to ensure that the gang suppression force fits within the broader U.S. strategy toward Haiti? Addressing [1:24:47] not just security but also governance, judicial responsibility, accountability, judicial impunity, [1:24:56] humanitarian needs and ultimately long-term stabilization for the people of Haiti. [1:25:04] Representative, I would I think we've talked a little bit about some of the steps that need to be [1:25:10] done in addition to securing the security situation. One of them is getting governance of Haiti by Haitians. [1:25:19] Right now you have no elected representatives in any branch of government in Haiti. All of the last [1:25:25] elections were 10 years ago and the people who were there were sort of put in by outside bureaucrats and [1:25:34] nobody had much respect for them. So one of the one of the big parts of the strategy is for the Haitians [1:25:41] to go ahead and as rapidly as the security situation will allow to have elections, get representatives in [1:25:49] their legislature, get elected president, start to appoint judges and so on and have their own accountability [1:25:57] mechanisms and we can't substitute all of those from the outside. The other is economic. This is why we [1:26:05] were calling for a multi-year reauthorization of Hope Health. You can't go on forever with just outside [1:26:14] injections of aid. I mean much as important as the humanitarian aid is. That's not the optimum way to [1:26:21] live. We want people to have jobs and for the Haitian economy to be functioning and so on and the way to [1:26:27] do that is to attract outside investment. So these are all pieces of the puzzle that have to have to work [1:26:34] together but you but there as the Colonel said before they're all interdependent on each other. One of them [1:26:40] by itself is not going to work. We have to make them all fire on all cylinders at the same time. [1:26:45] All right. I just finally add Mr. Chairman that remittances from Haitian TPS owners in the United [1:26:51] States would certainly help with stability in the country and I feel it's not in the United States [1:26:56] interest to return Haitian TPS owners to a dangerous situation in Haiti. I yield back. Thank you. [1:27:01] Representative Baird. Thank you Mr. Chairman and Ranking [1:27:05] Member. I appreciate you having this hearing and Ambassador Kozak and Colonel Gagarski we appreciate [1:27:14] you being here and answering the questions from the committee. It really helps us understand where [1:27:20] we're at. You know after the fall of the Soviet Union and I'm skipping some things that happened back [1:27:26] in 1915 regarding Haiti and our involvement there but after the fall of the Soviet Union our efforts did [1:27:32] not cease. We continued our support for democratic Haiti and first in 1994 and then in 2004 the U.S. [1:27:40] military stepped in to prevent military coup and the attempts against the democratically elected [1:27:45] president Bertrand Aristide. So yet after all of our intervention Haiti continues to devolve and in 19 or [1:27:55] 2021 the country descended into gang violence which you've talked a great deal about following the [1:28:02] assassination of the president Mosey and according to Secretary Marco Rubio the only way to bring [1:28:09] stability to Haiti is to first eliminate the 40,000 violent criminals. So we have our challenge and [1:28:16] you've expressed that already but our goal and the goal that's in front of us so I want to I want to take a [1:28:22] look at the U.N. and U.S. has a coordinated response. Haiti has hired a private contractor Vectis Global I [1:28:32] think is the name to help with revenue collections and border and customs enforcement. So Colonel how [1:28:39] do you anticipate the information sharing and operations between the Vectis and other military [1:28:48] forces and forces from Haiti and how will these operations be de-conflicted regarding the information [1:28:57] that they receive? So that's a great question and I'd like to highlight that the Haitian task force of [1:29:03] which Vectis Global is a part is a tremendous partner and just in the next week we will [1:29:11] coordinate the the placement of a Haitian task force member in our joint operations center. So we will [1:29:18] actually have a an individual who will be a Haitian national police individual who is part of that [1:29:24] task force of which Vectis Global supports who will coordinate and de-conflict both operational planning [1:29:31] and operational execution. And you I can tell or I think that I'm seeing that you think that coordination [1:29:41] is working well and will continue to improve and I think that's probably because partially because the [1:29:47] Haitians would like to have a democracy as well and so. Yes sir it is already working well we have [1:29:54] coordination and formally at the command level at all levels of command with Vectis Global and the [1:30:00] Haitian task force but this will formalize that agreement partnership. That's that I really appreciate [1:30:07] hearing that because we're talking about American tax dollars and using them wisely but Mr. Ambassador [1:30:12] part of the objectives is with Haiti is to hold a viable democratic election and transition of power [1:30:19] the first round of the elections is scheduled for what the 30th of August the 30th of next month and [1:30:24] so my question is how likely is this to actually happen and so once your opinion on what can be done [1:30:31] to establish an effective election process just to give give us your perspective. Yes thanks for the [1:30:39] for the question representative. I think over the years the U.S. has contributed a lot to the Haiti [1:30:46] election machinery and they Haiti has a still called a provisional electoral council they've never quite [1:30:52] formalized it but but it's been provisional for 30 years and I think you're right that that is the [1:31:00] preliminary date that they that they set for the first round of elections whether that will actually [1:31:05] occur on that date or not I don't know. There's a prime minister of Haiti has pointed out that he said [1:31:11] they could have elections in in seven of their 10 departments you know next week without any problem [1:31:18] because of but the problem is the most populous part Port-au-Prince uh has this security situation [1:31:26] that would make holding elections difficult there so I think it's it's it's going to depend on how [1:31:31] successful our colleagues when the gang suppressant force are if they're able to retake um you know enough [1:31:40] territory in the capital and and create enough of a security situation that life is semi-normal there it [1:31:47] doesn't have to be perfect nobody's looking for it I think one of the problems Haiti had over the years [1:31:52] was different international groups would come in and say oh you have to have this this this this and [1:31:58] you'd end up with 187 different requirements for an election and never have an election as a result [1:32:05] so I think I think the prime ministry's got it about right he wants to have a you know I said it's not [1:32:11] it it it won't be a Cadillac election but if it's a good you know F-150 election that's going to be [1:32:17] that's going to be solid they need an elected government it doesn't need to be perfect [1:32:22] when it when it will happen I mean we hope it happens um on schedule their goal is the even though [1:32:31] they've lost an entire presidential term uh February 7 I think is when the when the turnover should have [1:32:37] occurred five years ago and and that's what they're shooting for so we'll we'll see but that's [1:32:42] definitely part of the goal the U.S. isn't isn't especially involved in that because they have a [1:32:48] good capable election commission of their own they've been working this on their own they've got a lot of [1:32:53] help from the U.N. and the OAS and so on so we we don't have to do everything but it's it's an important [1:32:59] part thank you for that answer I appreciate that and you know Colonel I served in the army so I have every [1:33:06] confidence you'll be able to take care of his concerns and I thank you and yield back [1:33:09] representative Castro thank you chairman thank you gentlemen for your testimony today [1:33:14] I wanted to follow up on the questions about Vectis Global and their involvement in Haiti and also [1:33:20] their relationship with the United States military and government there's been a lack of transparency [1:33:26] over the Vectis Global contract with the government of Haiti let me start with the basics [1:33:32] can either of you describe what kind of unmanned systems Vectis Global is operating in Haiti [1:33:37] ambassador Wooster referred to them at the February Senate appropriations hearing as quote so-called [1:33:43] kamikaze drones unquote armed ordinance equipped systems conducting strikes and not surveillance drones [1:33:51] so one of my questions is that an accurate description of what's being used congressman I don't know all the [1:33:59] specifics of vectors global drones but I do know that they operate reconnaissance drones in addition [1:34:04] to one-way attack drones I'm sorry I can't hear you so well because your microphone so far down is it [1:34:09] possible to move it yeah so I don't know all the specifics vectors global's drone capabilities but I do [1:34:14] know they operate both reconnaissance and one-way attack drones so they are they activate or they operate [1:34:21] both surveillance drones and attack drones and who authorizes each strike is that an internal [1:34:27] vector's global decision or does the Haitian government have an authorization role in the [1:34:31] process I'm sorry sir I can't speak to that is it classified information that you could offer in [1:34:38] classified sitting no I'm just frankly unaware it's not part of part of our mission and they report to [1:34:45] the Haitian government so it's not it's not part of our purview you mentioned earlier that that you [1:34:50] would that we would be coordinating here at some point with them is it something that you'll have more [1:34:54] information on in six months or a year or shortly likely but our coordination is going to be focused [1:35:02] on operations and deconfliction right now the task force the Haitian task force of which vectus global [1:35:08] is a part operates in a different part of the of the area of operations so we don't have any overlap [1:35:15] but in the future of course as we shut down the gangs that partnership will will get closer so we should [1:35:21] have better insight and well I just want to know I mean for us as the oversight committee [1:35:25] and really for our government and for our nation this is an American company using American technology [1:35:32] that may be there that is using attack drones in Haiti and maybe killing people on the streets [1:35:37] and so I do think that it's something that that you all should be apprised of and that certainly as [1:35:42] the oversight buddy that we should be apprised of so I will revisit this issue with you in the future [1:35:48] and hope that we can get more clarity on it my next question for Mr Kozak Human Rights Watch [1:35:54] published a report on March 10 documenting drone strikes by vectus global in Haiti between March 1st [1:36:01] 2025 and January 21st 2026 their researchers confirmed at least 43 adults killed who were not members of any [1:36:10] criminal group and 17 children killed in that period has state reviewed these findings I'm generally [1:36:20] aware of them yes but we don't have a you know a capacity to cross-check them I take them at their [1:36:30] word and so that's I was going to follow up with a question is does the department maintain its own [1:36:36] independent casualty count for a company it licensed to conduct these strikes or is human rights watches [1:36:42] the only accounting that exists right now well first on the question of licensing this is something I [1:36:52] check would we cannot confirm or deny whether any particular license has been issued to any company [1:36:59] or not so unfortunately I actually wanted to be able to say more on that but I'm told that the by our [1:37:07] lawyers that pursuant to to law it's considered a proprietary information and so so that part I can't get [1:37:16] into on the on the ability we you know and have throughout the world we do rely heavily on human rights [1:37:24] organizations to to for facts and figures of that kind um well let me let me in Haiti where we our embassy [1:37:32] is very very constrained at this point because of the security situation sure uh let me follow up with a [1:37:38] question to colonel uh do you believe uh having said what I just said about a human rights watch report [1:37:45] which uh Mr Kozak essentially said was true or had no reason to doubt uh do you believe Vectis Global's [1:37:52] activities to meet the standards that we expect of the U.S. military what I can tell you congressman is [1:37:59] that Vectis Global operations and the task force operations uh for Haiti have become more and more [1:38:06] discriminant they have gathered intelligence and had considerable success especially over the past six [1:38:13] months putting the gangs on their back foot so I I think that they are performing a function that [1:38:19] is essential to future you said that they become more discriminant would suggest that they become [1:38:24] they become better at what they're doing and um more discerning but it looks like they killed 17 [1:38:32] children and 43 adults who were not associated within a criminal group I mean certainly we would expect more [1:38:41] discrimination or discernment than that yeah so I don't know the specifics on on civilian casualties [1:38:48] but this this is a war situation and unfortunately that's a reality for the situation we find ourselves [1:38:55] in and we do everything we can to mitigate risk associated with that that the Haitian task force [1:39:00] in Vectis Global I'm confident they're performing the same measures I'm out of time so you'll back I'm [1:39:05] going to recognize myself for questioning now uh I want to begin by just saying this I have found it [1:39:10] amazing how much support I've seen by many of my colleagues saying 100 support uh for uh all of [1:39:17] this work going on in Haiti when Haiti is not developing uh nuclear weapons they weren't attacking [1:39:22] the United States of America in in ways with drugs and other things like Venezuela and Iran had been [1:39:28] doing year after year decade after decade but 100 support there that to me is just incredibly ironic [1:39:34] I want to start with questions about the MSS and then we're going to go to the GSF so just very plainly [1:39:39] us put a billion dollars probably over a billion dollars Canada committed about half a billion [1:39:44] dollars to MSS where did the one to one and a half billion dollars go because Kenya did not give us [1:39:51] what was promised I'd have to go back and get you exact figures on that uh Mr Chairman but uh my [1:40:02] understanding is a lot of it uh went to logistic support that we were providing to to the operation [1:40:09] through the department of war and their contractors how much do you think they paid each of the Kenyan [1:40:13] service members I want to say it's the service members of something in the order of 32 33 million [1:40:23] dollars in total of the billion dollars the service members uh stipend of that was about 33 million [1:40:31] yeah it was about 1448 per per individual or just under that the vast majority went to logistics aerial [1:40:39] movement of uh personnel and equipment and then sustainment the the food the the health care the [1:40:46] hospital I'd like to see the ledger of what Kenya uh grifted off of the United States of America for [1:40:53] this off the American taxpayer can you provide us with the ledger of that yes sir perfect um I want to [1:41:01] move to uh the current situation of what's going on right now uh we've talked a lot about the MSS already [1:41:07] so going to one of the questions that was asked already is it the case that these uh gangs are [1:41:11] creating child soldiers yes sir how big of a problem are child soldiers under 18 soldiers massive [1:41:20] half of the gang composition is comprised of child soldiers very good thank you for sharing that with [1:41:25] us not good but thank you for sharing the information with us uh as you look at uh the TPS which is a big [1:41:31] part of the conversation do you anticipate uh those that return uh to Haiti as a result of any ending of [1:41:39] TPS uh being a part of the solution to make Haiti better yes I I would uh say so uh chairman that uh [1:41:49] you know you have people going back that have training or have matured uh in the United States [1:41:55] and and weren't part of the gang situation TPS decimated their police force will yeah so the ending of [1:42:01] TPS bring people back yeah and hopefully they they'll be employment opportunities for them in the security [1:42:08] forces both the police force but also the military that the Haitians are going to be calling as I made [1:42:13] the point earlier uh it was so much of a problem for Haiti that they had to go to making people come [1:42:18] and receive their paychecks in person because so many of them were receiving their paychecks by direct [1:42:23] deposit and they were off in the United States of America and they were not in Haiti doing their [1:42:28] police work uh I want to know a little bit about the strategy of what's going on here is this as we look at the [1:42:33] force of Chad uh Sri Lanka Guatemala Mongolia El Salvador Jamaica I think that makes up about all of [1:42:40] it uh are these going block to block yeah that's a good question sir so the concept is clear hold build [1:42:47] right so we we're focusing on the highest density and concentration of gang elements and clearing those [1:42:53] elements and then very critically holding which as you know previously the force was unable to do [1:42:58] uh so holding those you know those areas with persistent presence and then bringing in the build [1:43:04] component which is integration with Haitian security Chad is the largest group did you say build component [1:43:10] is that the word yes sir partner with Haitian security forces and ensure that they can sustain [1:43:15] themselves Chad the largest group there who's the fighting force who's the hold force Chad Sri Lanka Jamaica [1:43:24] El Salvador who's who so we've designed it as you'll appreciate very much like a military [1:43:28] operation it is a military operation so we have areas of operation three critical areas of operation [1:43:34] with battalion size battle space owners so Chad has the west department port of prince Sri Lanka is [1:43:40] responsible for the RT bonit where the gangs also are very entrenched and then Cote d'Ivoire will come [1:43:45] in and take the center department uh which occupies uh which uh the town of Mirabile is how many high value [1:43:52] targets have you identified for targeting not that you've hit yet but necessarily targeted yeah i'd be happy to [1:43:58] give you specifics in a classified session but um we're at the very front edge so right now for [1:44:05] targeting purposes it's zero uh we will change that in the very near future next 45 days i'll be curious [1:44:11] to hear more about that one specifically how much ground has been held so far so we've uh just built [1:44:17] two critical forward operating bases one of those is the base fair tier which is just across the street [1:44:23] from the u.s embassy we're thrilled to have you there uh in the next week or two that's that's a [1:44:28] massive footprint uh that was previously uh haitian military base we've now expanded into a critical [1:44:35] stronghold uh that the gang's held previously in lower delman this is critical it's between the seaport [1:44:40] and the airport uh and we expect to expand in the future the very near future on the north side of the [1:44:45] airport and then to the outlying provinces happy to give you those details on a classified setting very good [1:44:50] thank you for the information on that today thank you for your testimony and we will go to [1:44:54] representative jackson next thank you chairman mast thank you for our panelists for being out today and [1:45:03] thank you ranking member meeks the trump administration's immigration policy has drawn [1:45:09] some level of criticism for appearing to apply different humanitarian standards to different [1:45:15] populations while it moved quickly to admit white south africaneers as it stated policy from [1:45:23] south africa where there has been no evidence of any brutality or repression they've classified them [1:45:31] as refugees based on claims of racial persecution it simultaneously sought to terminate temporary [1:45:41] protective status for hundreds of thousands of hard-working haitians despite haiti's ongoing political [1:45:49] collapse and i must say we've had some participation in that by abducting one of its presidents recently [1:45:57] this reflects a selective approach to refugee and humanitarian protections that is difficult to [1:46:03] reconcile with a consistent application of u.s asylum and refugee principles the question is what [1:46:11] objective criteria did the administration use to prioritize refugee emissions for white south africans while [1:46:19] seeking to end tps protections for hastens facing extraordinary violence and state collapse mr kozak [1:46:27] uh representative representative i would say first i think there's a big distinction between tps [1:46:36] and uh asylum or refugee status refugee or asylum the individual needs to be able to show that they're [1:46:45] being singled out for persecution based on race religion ethnicity uh political opinion something like that [1:46:52] and can't many tps is a temporary status saying uh you that it's inconvenient to send somebody back because [1:47:02] of an earthquake or a hurricane or something if you could answer the question i understand the background [1:47:06] but if you can answer the south the administration i'm saying that in the case of you're positing south [1:47:14] africa refugee question that the standard there would be the refugee standard tps does not use that [1:47:20] standard so it's it's not a distinction between south africans and haitians it's a distinction between [1:47:25] the administration needed between white south africans are there no other groups of people in south africa [1:47:31] that could also seek some sort of refugee status the administration was very clear only for white south [1:47:36] africans but let's focus on haiti which is the real concern well this is an arbitrary classification as [1:47:42] well people anywhere um that can that are out of their country can claim uh refugee status [1:47:51] uh is it dangerous to for americans to visit haiti it currently in terms of our travel advisory yes [1:48:00] it's dangerous for americans so why are we saying actually the port-au-prince part of it [1:48:04] why why is why are we sending haitians back to haiti if we acknowledge it being dangerous [1:48:09] uh the the the state department travel advisories that are done are done for americans and they relate [1:48:17] to uh dangers or risks that are particularly applicable to american visitors in another country [1:48:25] that doesn't necessarily apply to the the population of that country and so you can understand for [1:48:33] example uh americans can be at high risk of being kidnapped and uh and extortion uh uh campaign [1:48:40] so it might be a high risk of being killed when they return to their home country it depends on [1:48:45] the part of the country so the answer is yes correct it depends on the part of the country if if you are [1:48:51] in port-au-prince uh and in an area controlled by the gangs you're at risk of being uh harmed by the [1:48:56] gangs so if we could if you get crosswise with them yeah so if the largest city is unsafe we can also [1:49:02] assume that many parts of the other country would be the um where people are returning so far is is in [1:49:09] the north to uh cap haitian uh which is relatively uh stable uh people go to work there and and so on [1:49:18] well if you will in closing do you agree with the administration's policy of returning ending the [1:49:23] temporary protective status for those um haitians that are in danger going back home i represent the [1:49:30] administration that adopted that policy yes you support it thank you i yield back the gentleman yields back [1:49:39] at this time we'll recognize the representative from michigan representative hyzinga for five minutes [1:49:45] uh thank you mr chairman and uh good to see you all mr kozak i also uh happen to chair the u.s canada [1:49:52] interparliamentary group um and uh we have been having some obviously robust conversations with the [1:49:58] canadians about uh forest fires and a number of other things not to mention trade so at some point [1:50:04] actually beyond this i'd love uh to have a conversation with you about uh about that [1:50:09] relationship out at a different time so if we can make that arrangement uh i would appreciate that [1:50:14] happy to do it oh great thank you um not long ago in fact 2021 five years ago a family from my previous [1:50:23] district in oceana county in michigan went to haiti on a human with a humanitarian purpose serving with [1:50:29] christian aid ministries following a visit to an orphanage in the eastern part of port-au-prince [1:50:35] a husband and wife working as christian missionaries and their children were abducted and held for over [1:50:40] five months uh by 400 uh mawazo uh and uh part of the uh vive ensemble gang coalition and which is [1:50:49] designated as a foreign terrorist organization the fto uh which is accounting for i think as you had said [1:50:55] to the chairman i'm sorry i think it may have been colonel uh um uh gorkowski that about half of those [1:51:02] armed gangs are now minors correct yes okay uh well in total 16 americans and one canadian including [1:51:11] women and children were held for a 17 million dollar ransom and after months of negotiating by u.s [1:51:16] agencies some of the hostages were eventually released uh the others uh while their their captors [1:51:24] were distracted uh had a quite a harrowing escape under the cover of darkness and were later recovered by the [1:51:30] uh by our fbi in in the haitian bush uh the doj finally served justice in december of 2025 when the [1:51:38] ringleader of the 2021 abduction was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of release [1:51:44] uh this story is just one of many that speaks of the criminal enterprises and depravity that dominate [1:51:51] a small country and i have to tell you in my area um uh within my own personal church and within our uh [1:51:59] our community both in the faith-based and non-faith-based area haiti has been a uh a huge [1:52:07] part of both humanitarian and mission uh fields and um a number of adoptions that have come out of there [1:52:15] and those kinds of things uh is uh is uh is is impressive we have people trying to help people [1:52:21] uh but we see this lawlessness that has hit haiti just uh impact so many families both obviously down [1:52:30] there as well as uh here in the united states um colonel the the gang's expression forces mission [1:52:38] is uh to have a haiti that can secure itself um and we've heard today it's uh that's quite a lofty goal [1:52:45] and far from uh certain or possible in the near term i think that's your before you were cut off one of [1:52:51] my colleagues was asking you about uh the contract that the haitian government has and you were starting [1:52:57] to say that uh this contract is performing a necessary function um because of this fto and the situation [1:53:07] down there so i just wanted to give you a moment to let you uh sort of answer that question that had [1:53:11] been cut off yeah thanks for that opportunity sir i will say you know there are certain things the [1:53:17] gang suppression force can do and things they cannot do based on the mandate uh and and one of those do [1:53:24] under international human rights law you know we we are gang suppression forces restricted on their [1:53:29] ability to do kill capture type operations of high value targets and frankly we don't have the robust [1:53:35] intelligence capabilities needed to do that effectively so uh i find it interesting uh that [1:53:43] the u.s government nor certainly the haitian government don't have the uh the ability to get [1:53:49] the intelligence and they actually have to employ and use these contractors to go do that isn't that the [1:53:57] case the haitian national police specifically are uh kind of leapfrogging catapulting ahead in their [1:54:04] ability to collect and process intelligence so it's improving and there's only a few hundred of them [1:54:10] that's accurate sir we're about almost really need thousands thousands plural not not singular um okay [1:54:20] so i was we were down in there was a group of us that were down in the dominican republic and uh in [1:54:28] december and had the opportunity uh to speak to the charge uh mr wooster via uh telecom um and uh i'm [1:54:37] curious at that time uh it was a it was pretty dire are we in a is haiti in a better situation than it was [1:54:45] six eight months ago or are we in a worse situation we we are most certainly in a better situation now [1:54:51] uh but any additional assistance will again kind of catapult uh progress and do you have an estimate [1:55:01] uh my time is running up here but uh colonel do you have an estimate of what a realistic timeline for [1:55:06] haitian forces to take the lead in securing their own uh sovereignty might be i would estimate it to be [1:55:12] at two to three years in order for them to grow the necessary personnel but also train them effectively [1:55:18] to take this over i mentioned at the top uh that haiti based on its population size size needs about [1:55:25] 30 000 security force personnel to effectively secure according to international standards okay and i uh [1:55:32] my time is up but i would uh want to lend my voice as well to the chairman's about uh having a better [1:55:38] understanding of what happened uh with those uh with those monies that were going into what was supposed to [1:55:46] be a uh a security force coming in so with that i yield back the gentleman yields at this time will [1:55:54] represent will recognize the representative come laggard of for five minutes thank you mr chairman and [1:56:00] ranking member meeks for this hearing today so ambassador kozak the theme of your government [1:56:06] service has been the advancement of democracy and human rights and from your cv you have gone to some [1:56:14] complicated countries like haiti and the fact that you are an experienced haitian policy veteran dating [1:56:22] back to the 90s means that you understand its significance and challenges it is part of the [1:56:28] western hemisphere part of the caribbean close to us the tps program has been an economic lifeline to [1:56:36] haiti the professionalization of the diaspora has made haiti an essential contributor to our economy [1:56:43] and healthcare workforce more than 100 000 haitian immigrants work in the u.s healthcare in u.s healthcare [1:56:50] helping fill critical workforce shortages and generating millions of dollars in economic activity [1:56:56] through their labor taxes and spending i see that as diplomacy at work and yet historically we have treated [1:57:04] haiti very gingerly i think that's short-sighted given its proximity to us and wonder if it is that we [1:57:12] don't care about haiti because we haven't figured out to control it newsflash ask france they don't [1:57:18] want to be controlled or is it because this is a country of african people don't know the answers to [1:57:24] that but what i do know is that we have benefited economically from haiti and its people for decades [1:57:31] while failing to make a comparable investment in its long-term stability and it is rudderless right now it [1:57:38] has descended into an unprecedented security and humanitarian crisis and this administration is [1:57:45] making it worse by pulling back leaving a vacuum at precisely the moment when sustained engagement is [1:57:52] needed in 2025 president trump withdrew a 13 million dollar u.s commitment to the united nations intended [1:58:00] to help combat the very gangs we are discussing today um so ambassador kozak public reporting indicates that [1:58:06] the department approved a license allowing vectus global to provide defense services to the haitian [1:58:13] government in connection with reported 52 million dollar security agreement so can you at least confirm [1:58:19] that the department issued that authorization uh regrettably representative i cannot i'm told by our [1:58:27] lawyers that i cannot confirm or deny whether anybody has applied for a license or whether we've granted or [1:58:33] not granted a license to a particular company so is it that you don't have the information or you're not [1:58:38] allowed to share the information i'm not allowed to share information uh so do you know by i'm told by [1:58:43] law that we're required to keep it well somebody knows so could you share it in a classified setting [1:58:51] i think the question would be for our bureau of political military affairs that runs the licensing but [1:58:59] my understanding is that they're not able there there are reporting requirements they have with congress [1:59:05] i get it nobody wants to tell us anything so do you know if the license authorization is for one year [1:59:11] or 10 years i can't you can't say comment on a you know so i'm only a hypothetical license we are you [1:59:17] know some of this has been reported in the news so i want to know then um if you even know what's in the [1:59:24] security agreement does it include things like a performance-based commission for vectus global i'm [1:59:31] assuming you probably can't share that either i'm also wondering how they would collect taxes because [1:59:40] part of the agreement and we've heard about it includes revenue collection so wondering what that [1:59:46] looks like and do they get a commission based on how many how much taxes they collect but i'm assuming [1:59:52] i mean i'm also curious as to who they report to um and the reason why i ask is because i mean these are [2:00:02] like due diligence questions so at the very least can you share what due diligence the department [2:00:09] conducted on vectus global and its ownership and leadership i i don't know the answers to most of those [2:00:17] uh questions i would say what what i do know is what the colonel mentioned earlier yes and he is that [2:00:25] the this private military contractor does report to a task force that's headed by the haitian prime [2:00:32] minister that's that we know from the haitians telling us the reason why i don't i'm not aware of the [2:00:38] eric that's and i'm i'm i don't want to have to ask you any more questions that you can't answer or [2:00:44] told not to answer but it's interesting because eric prince is the head of vectus global he's also [2:00:50] a long-time ally and donor of the president and it seems like once again we are approving licenses to [2:00:56] go to friends and family members of donald trump when we really should be focusing on how we can [2:01:02] have diplomatic engagement to create lasting peace in countries that are important to us that are of [2:01:07] close proximity to us and with that i will yield back thank you mr chairman thank you so much i will [2:01:14] just add that under the dvtc's director of defense trade controls they are having requirements that [2:01:19] are things such as dsp5 dsp83s that are requirements not only for brokerage licensing and vetting but [2:01:25] also for exportation and approvals in line with itar i'd also note that while prince is sometimes a [2:01:32] controversial issue for many of my colleagues we will add that we wouldn't have had skin afghanistan had [2:01:37] it not been for them or other areas of security corporations that we had utilized through the state [2:01:42] department the agencies and various others that successfully carried out not hundreds not tens [2:01:48] but thousands of successful missions that allowed us to protect our diplomats protect our dignitaries [2:01:55] and also advanced security cooperations with that i will recognize the gentle lady from florida [2:02:00] representative salazar for five minutes thank you mr chairman wonderful to see you again mr kozak [2:02:06] and thank you for your service colonel gerkowski and you know i represent the city of miami hundreds [2:02:13] of thousands of patients we know them very well we know they're good people uh it's been miserable the [2:02:18] political elite that they have had or inherited for the last 100 years they deserve better and they also [2:02:25] deserve better in 2010 when the clinton administration formed something called the clinton foundation and [2:02:31] received so many funds in order to reconstruct that country and those funds were compromised so we [2:02:39] know that the haitians do not deserve many of the political situations they have had to face for that [2:02:47] reason i am bringing up the hope help act which is the number one source of formal employment in the country [2:02:54] they're employing more than 100 000 people so i would like for you to send the message to [2:03:01] this body to the united states congress republicans and democrats in saying that secretary of state [2:03:08] supports the renewing of this program for five years brings stability it keeps haitians at home [2:03:15] and we need the signal from state can you send that through this committee right now yes representative [2:03:22] salazar the secretary and the administration support a multi-year reauthorization of hope help we're [2:03:30] quite in favor of it and what else do you think state could do in order to uh push this body to [2:03:39] take this up and give the haitians five more years of stability i think we've been trying to signal that [2:03:44] everywhere we can including in my testimony here today beautiful beautiful so state departments and [2:03:49] the trump administration is in support of extending for five years the hope help act beautiful the gang [2:03:57] suppression force we're talking about five thousand uh effective or men uniform not all of the americans [2:04:05] you we are going to be providing some type of leadership it's a full force are we going to be [2:04:12] able to arrest barbecue what are we planning to do with a barbecue and for those that do not know [2:04:19] barbecue is the leader of one of the many gangs but apparently he's more intelligent and he's become [2:04:24] being able to sort of have a grasp of the country you know that's a a great question and of course [2:04:32] barbecue has been on the minds of anybody who looks at haiti you know the the great strength uh that [2:04:37] barbecue has developed in in recent years in the last three or so years is the development of alliances [2:04:43] and our uh one of our alliances so he has aligned himself with whom other gangs yeah so two large gang [2:04:51] coalitions uh g9 and g pep allied over the past few years and now you have 20 some separate gangs who [2:04:59] are allied under this viva and why what has he done what does he have why is he so capable of uniting all [2:05:06] these criminals behind him yeah so it's predominantly influence largely through social media but also [2:05:14] influence through uh resources so money weapons who gives them those resources yeah it comes from [2:05:22] uh many different angles uh weapons and ammunition they come in some cases direct from florida and new [2:05:28] york through the dominican republic they have porous borders who pays for that it's uh they generate the [2:05:34] revenue largely through illegal tolls taxation the areas they control they are the de facto sovereign so [2:05:41] they collect taxes they exercise the excise tolls they control shipments uh you know from the seaport [2:05:48] uh from the official border crossing points so they have massive revenue generation uh thousands of [2:05:54] dollars for individual and do you think that this gang suppression force 5 000 will be able to is there [2:06:00] any way that we can barbecue barbecue can we roast i i i hope so slowly yeah like you know those pigs that [2:06:09] they get roasted little by little it does exactly what he deserves and i'm sure that this is going [2:06:13] to go viral on social media is exactly what the united states force should do to barbecue barbecue him [2:06:20] is there any way that we can do something similar yeah we are focused on retaking the territory [2:06:26] controlled by the gains and through that we will suffocate him and his lifeblood are we going to be able [2:06:31] to arrest him do you think i mean is there any possibility that we're going to be able to arrest this man and [2:06:36] bring him to justice it is absolutely a possibility it's a top objective and by when do you think that [2:06:41] could happen it's hard to put a timeline on these things but i will tell you we will have full [2:06:46] operational capability this fall and that's the point at which we will start constricting his [2:06:51] maneuver space and then decapitate him since you told me that he is the barbecuing him meaning [2:06:57] decapitating the head and meaning him and then the rest of the gang organizations may crumble okay my time [2:07:03] is i just have one more question for you mr kozak you know that i sent a letter to you and to secretary [2:07:09] rubio basically asking for this shell company called comercia dola whatever in cuba and what they do is [2:07:17] that they're the shell company for for the cuban military in charge of human trafficking so this is [2:07:23] the organization that does business with other countries and those other countries re sent money [2:07:29] to this shell company and basically what they're doing is that they are in the business of human [2:07:33] trafficking human trafficking cuban doctors trafficking cuban doctors now why do i say that [2:07:41] because these doctors are modern day slaves they get percent they get paid five percent of their salary [2:07:48] they cannot bring to the country where they're going to be serving wife kids families they are just [2:07:53] slaves they cannot receive the money that money that they are earning is deposited in a cuban bank [2:08:00] bottom line modern day human trafficking is there any way that you can put this shell company on the [2:08:08] blacklist and when i say that why does that happen because when that happens then you will be saying to [2:08:15] those countries that legally they cannot send money to this organization you have the golden touch [2:08:24] to stop this when could you do this sir thanks for the question representative salazar i think you've seen [2:08:33] that we uh have been progressively hitting the gayesa entities and certainly the rabble yeah and and share [2:08:43] it what i'll have to what i'll have to check is that there are when when we when we hit one of the parent [2:08:51] entities automatically the subordinate ones uh become subject to sanction as well [2:08:58] but this is one of our our high priorities is stopping that program of making basically where [2:09:05] where others are renting or you know slave labor from the from the cuban uh security services that's [2:09:12] correct so we absolutely share your desire on this and we've gone after we've gone after the parent [2:09:18] company so i'll i'll get back to you as to whether that individual shell company is so you're sending [2:09:24] the message that those countries cannot be sending anymore yeah it's no more thank you so much [2:09:31] i yield back thank you and i just add also when we talk about the influence of barbecue please note that [2:09:37] he was very close to previous president which gave him a lot of influence and he pushed it in a way [2:09:41] where he would actually say that i'm here to stop what's going on in haiti he was also a national [2:09:46] police officer for a while so he did have influence he did have leadership he did have a mentorship and [2:09:53] i think that they trusted in it but it's it needs to come to an end um at this time i'd like to rep [2:09:59] recognize the gentle lady from pennsylvania miss dean for five minutes i thank you chairman and i thank the [2:10:06] chairman mast and ranking member meeks for holding this hearing i thank our witnesses for being here [2:10:11] today as has been described haiti is facing is in the middle of one of the worst humanitarian crises [2:10:19] in the world nearly 1.5 million haitians are currently displaced according to iom 5.8 million haitians half [2:10:28] the population are food insecure hungry according to world food program vital health and social services [2:10:35] collapsing access to health care inconsistent schools frequently closed ambassador kozik you testified [2:10:43] that the united states overarching uh objective in haiti is baseline stability and it seems that while [2:10:50] gang violence has exacerbated haiti's humanitarian crisis haiti's underlying humanitarian crisis is also [2:10:58] a continuation or cause of the continued violence and instability an ongoing cycle of instability that i [2:11:05] know you both are interested in breaking but let's take a look at what has happened and this started on [2:11:13] january 20th of this administration due to the dismantling of usaid and other cuts at state there [2:11:22] have been significant cuts to u.s humanitarian assistance to haiti specifically january 20th when the [2:11:30] president was sworn in uh he ordered a review of foreign aid which caught which began an immediate [2:11:36] immediate 90-day pause march 10th 83 percent of u.s aid programs cut march 28th the reduction in force [2:11:47] notices went out uh ambassador kozik under this administration's watch life-saving programs for [2:11:54] health care hiv treatment food security and clean water canceled outright some estimates put the cuts [2:12:03] and up to 50 percent of all assistance programs that were in place for haiti yet the department [2:12:10] continues to to refuse to provide this committee with a full list of what was terminated despite [2:12:16] previous assurances that you would why is that and when will we get a full accounting of that which [2:12:23] has been cut okay thank you uh representative dean let me be clear that i think the administration's [2:12:31] policy was to continue uh life-saving programs that provide water and food and so on uh one thing [2:12:39] we have done no no but i'm asking you specifically programs that were cut that's the reporting that [2:12:45] we want i understand where we need to go back to the the what's left of usa id that has those figures [2:12:52] but but what i want to do is put this in the right context what the effort was i have heard the context [2:12:57] before mr ambassador please all right we're asking for specific reporting when will we get specific [2:13:02] reporting on the program's cut you can tell us later at or in addition that which you replenished [2:13:08] or shifted what was cut for example uh it is estimated that seven hundred and eighty four thousand [2:13:16] dollars worth of health commodities uh were let to partially expire what happened to those things on [2:13:22] the shelves did the haitian people ever get those life-saving things or did we just [2:13:27] wind up trashing them do we have reports yeah i i don't know the answer to that question i would [2:13:34] refer it to the usaid people but i do i do want to get on the record uh congresswoman that we no no no [2:13:41] yeah well sir you ask me a question as a representative of this administration you owe us that reporting [2:13:48] don't ask us to go to usaid most of those folks are gone the administration owes the answer i'll leave [2:13:55] it at that let me go on to the boat strikes um it's an issue i care deeply about uh and the related [2:14:04] issues to it i know that the administration cares about stopping the flow of illicit drugs into the [2:14:11] country uh and the administration's boat strike campaign has the stated purpose of stopping the flow [2:14:17] of illicit drugs to the u.s uh there's a problem with that premise the president keeps talking about [2:14:23] fentanyl on these boats actually there are two problems with it uh in the boat strikes uh what [2:14:31] evidence have you produced uh that these were boats carrying illicit drugs to the united states where's [2:14:37] the evidence i think you would put that question to our colleagues from the department of war who've [2:14:42] been carrying out that that policy but this is i do know that they they feel confident that they [2:14:49] are targeting the correct uh here's the deal we have had so far 221 dead 66 strikes that's only as [2:14:57] of july the first there were four strikes in june alone that killed 16 people congress has received [2:15:06] no evidence of these extrajudicial killings of the evidence of the drug trafficking when will you [2:15:12] uh in your capacity provide us that evidence department of defense uh as it is named currently [2:15:21] hasn't given us any briefings either but you owe us briefings i can't brief you on something i don't [2:15:28] know do you have any evidence of drugs on these boats i think that that has not been the issue the issue [2:15:37] is whether the the people on the boats and the boats are part of the organizations that are doing that [2:15:44] what do you have evidence of that of their organizational ties it's these are these are intel [2:15:49] driven mr chairman the last member went over two minutes yes would you answer the question that miss [2:15:56] dean but at the end of the day i do sit with the chair and have the gavel and i was being polite [2:16:01] and asking for you to just go ahead and ask whatever questions you would like thank you miss [2:16:07] dean is very passionate as we all are about how drugs have impacted our families and i understand [2:16:12] that while she supports this heavily she also wants to make sure that the intel is correct [2:16:18] as we all do in congress i understand your point which is the department of war resides with the [2:16:23] majority of this i'm blessed enough to sit on the armed services committee and the foreign affairs [2:16:27] committee so i have actually received briefings that talks about where the drug boats had actually [2:16:33] left from which were known areas of collection points who is seen there as a target identification [2:16:39] doing pids and then also what the route was that was distinguished by their actual vectors on the [2:16:46] ocean itself is that enough for some yes for some no but i know that miss dean and i have a very shared [2:16:54] concern here which is stop drugs from poisoning our families from ruining lives and making sure that our [2:17:03] streets are safe and i know we have that shared concern i thank you mr chairman maybe you could get that [2:17:07] briefing shared with the greater larger congress uh and of course the false premise that these are [2:17:13] fentanyl votes makes no sense whatsoever and the majority of them are not just fentanyl they are [2:17:17] cocaine and others so i agree that we need a full brief but you know as well as i do miss dean that [2:17:22] unfortunately if we don't sit on certain committees we don't always get the information i don't get it [2:17:26] from financial services i don't get it from others uh it'd be nice if that was the case but it's not [2:17:30] always which is why we have our areas of jurisdiction uh with that i will rep i will now recognize the [2:17:34] representative from new york mr lawlor thank you mr chairman uh the state department currently lists [2:17:41] haiti as a level four travel advisory and tells americans not to travel to haiti for any reason [2:17:47] whatsoever and even encourages them to leave dna behind in the event they do go uh to haiti mr kozak [2:17:55] can you please share why haiti is at level four and why is it unsafe for americans to travel there [2:18:03] well these are determinations made by our consular affairs bureau for countries all around the world [2:18:11] i would say in the case of haiti the the factors that have gone into it um one we've had as a [2:18:18] representative mentioned earlier we've had a number of kidnappings of americans and help being held for [2:18:24] ransom and so on uh we have very extremely limited consular services there because our embassy is uh is [2:18:34] so small um and the generalized crime in parts of haiti so there are all those different factors that [2:18:42] are spelled out in the travel advisory but these are inclusive of that the lack of a stable government [2:18:48] the gangs running large portions of haiti correct these are all part of the determinations um i have to [2:18:59] go back and look at at what the consular affairs sites there but uh okay certainly that contributes to [2:19:06] the the risk of being kidnapped and so on not having a uh stable government and having gangs in in charge [2:19:13] of the areas of the country right it's okay to acknowledge the situation on the ground there [2:19:18] uh now when dhs made the determination to terminate tps for haiti did they consult with the state [2:19:24] department at all about the situation on the ground dhs does consult with us about country conditions [2:19:32] both with respect to tps determinations and uh with respect to so in that consultation but the decision [2:19:40] is their decision i understand in that consultation what did state say to the department of homeland [2:19:45] security i i don't uh recall but i think you can see that well it's not it's not that we say here is [2:19:52] what we think about tps we'd say here is the situation on the ground in haiti i would imagine [2:19:57] very much i would imagine you conveyed to the department of homeland security that it is unsafe [2:20:02] on the ground in haiti correct i can't imagine that state said it's a safe take take a look at the [2:20:07] human rights report and and other reports that we've done over time that they're they're consistent [2:20:12] on that that there's a really big security problem in haiti that's why we are standing up the gang [2:20:18] suppression force no doubt about it right so wouldn't it stand to reason that before terminating tps [2:20:25] we would want the gang suppression unit to do its work and ensure the safety and well-being on the [2:20:32] ground i think you go back to the the beginning of this so the temporary protected the temporary [2:20:43] protected i know what temporary protected status means yeah and it was protecting from an earthquake [2:20:49] that happened 16 years ago right multiple multiple natural disasters and then of course the [2:20:55] assassination of the president of the country uh was inclusive of these determinations as to why tps [2:21:04] was extended but state has a very specific role which is to advise the department of homeland security [2:21:11] about the situation on the ground and i can't imagine given that we are setting up a gang suppression unit [2:21:18] that anybody at state would have said everything is honky-dory on the ground in haiti and let's end tps [2:21:24] i mean is it is that the position of the state department no it's certainly not anybody saying [2:21:32] that it was hunky-dory all right good so over the last few years uh the security situation has clearly [2:21:39] deteriorated in haiti and what started as a downward spiral has ended up in a free fall there's no [2:21:45] legitimate government the gangs are exercising authority over citizens roads ports and much of port-au-prince [2:21:51] itself and the dire situation has resulted in a humanitarian crisis and extreme poverty and since [2:21:58] i joined congress i've been urging my colleagues on both sides of the aisle as well as the biden and [2:22:04] trump administrations to prioritize the problems in haiti president biden oversaw the un's kenyan-led [2:22:10] multinational security support mission which was an absolute disaster and a failure okay the gang [2:22:17] suppression force has the potential to work because the whole objective is to eliminate the gangs [2:22:24] and allow for a stable government to take form and allow for a free and fair election so colonel can you [2:22:31] share how the gang suppression force differs from this kenyan-led mission and why is this the better [2:22:37] route yeah thanks for the question congressman very important to distinguish the two because they [2:22:43] really are two separate entities the biggest challenge that we began with was clearly identifying the [2:22:50] problem and the problem had been mischaracterized in previous intervention as a criminal problem [2:22:54] is fundamentally not it is a proto-insurgency and we seek uh you know the gang suppression force to attack [2:23:00] those those those uh proto-insurgent issues so the the gangs are comprised that their uh operations are [2:23:07] comprised of four critical elements one's arms and ammunition two is uh resource flows elicit resource [2:23:14] flows narcotics etc uh three is safe haven and four is alliances our objectives are to eliminate that [2:23:21] lifeblood from the gangs and we've designed the force to do just that we have an updated mission [2:23:27] we have very clear and distinct leadership from the last mission the size were five times larger [2:23:33] uh the structure it's a military heavy structure four fifth military one fifth police yeah uh and then [2:23:39] finally sustainment you know the the greatest uh burden to the u.s taxpayer was through sustainment [2:23:44] of the previous mission the u.n is supporting sustainment of this mission through assessed contributions [2:23:50] uh i appreciate that and and look we want this to succeed we want haiti to be safe for haitians to [2:23:57] return to uh and have a more stable government and elect a government of their own choosing and have [2:24:04] a democracy on the ground free of gang activity lastly i would just say in the ndaa last year we [2:24:10] created the office of haitian affairs i see uh your your colleague stepped away but this needs to be set [2:24:17] up within the state department immediately and start focusing on what needs to be done uh working with [2:24:24] state and uh our uh staff on the ground there and the government of haiti ultimately to have a more [2:24:30] stable situation on the ground so i would encourage the administration to get the office of haitian [2:24:35] affairs set up as congress passed in the ndaa i yield back thank you so much i know that many of [2:24:41] the members want to wait until the ambassador comes back so you can ask questions um in the sake of [2:24:47] saving time and again i'm giving people extra time because i do think this is a very important issue [2:24:52] i know that debbie knows how miss washerman schultz knows how important this is being in the state of [2:24:57] florida and knowing how close to our own shorelines it is and so i definitely want to give her the [2:25:02] opportunity to ask the questions as well as for representative mfume but i'll go ahead and recognize [2:25:07] myself for five minutes and address with the colonel and that way it gives you guys time if you agree [2:25:13] thank you colonel looking at gs9 looking at barbecue and looking at the gang activity what could you [2:25:21] utilize as a comparison to things that we have encountered like this in the in the past and [2:25:28] what strategies were successful yeah it's it's a really good question and we've we've done a fair [2:25:34] amount of comparative analysis trying to identify an appropriate solution um probably somalia comes [2:25:40] closest uh in this regard um and you know we built our solution not only uh through that comparative [2:25:46] analysis but also through detailed analysis of previous multinational force failures [2:25:51] um and you know the the same themes are reiterated throughout history and our distinct uh goal from [2:25:59] the onset was to ensure we don't uh you know complete the same mistakes uh the previous missions [2:26:06] and if i may we've seen where and i i'll bore people with the history you know we always want to [2:26:13] hit the contractor the contractor the contractor right um i would argue that lewis and clark actually [2:26:18] was a contractor as well who mapped out america and we didn't have issues whenever it was to our [2:26:23] benefits and we've certainly seen where there are benefits especially being a u.s army combat veteran [2:26:28] myself having been a contractor myself in various factions whether it be with the agency or whether it [2:26:33] be with the state department there are certain permissible capabilities that we have under letters of [2:26:40] authorization or in iraq for example when you have the cpa coalition provincial authorities that enable [2:26:46] us to do things that is not governed by the uniform code of military justice and enables things to be [2:26:51] able to come to fruition we have to recognize that sometimes in warfare sometimes in gang terrorist activity [2:26:59] strategies or anti-gangs rising like this there are certain restrictions and handcuffs on us that [2:27:09] without that we could resolve very quickly i lead that question into asking what is the current oversight [2:27:18] do you feel it's adequate for what we have regarding contractors in haiti because here's what i always [2:27:25] am concerned with i don't want another nisor square incident i don't want another outrage in a country [2:27:31] where we actually cause more diplomatic damage and more destabilization and america's been great at [2:27:38] destabilizing nations like afghanistan iraq for 20 plus years and i certainly don't want us to see a [2:27:43] prolonged war again but i also want to see stability and improvement for the haitian people do you feel [2:27:50] there's adequate oversight and cooperation between the government and these contractors to see this to [2:27:57] success congressman i i do you know contractors are a part of conflict christopher columbus was a military [2:28:06] contractor so it goes back through the duration of history there are certainly elements of this conflict that [2:28:14] the contractors and as a part of the haitian task force things that they can do and execute that are [2:28:21] essential and there are elements that have to be done by the gang suppression force there are [2:28:26] there is justification for each of those parallel efforts but they must be parallel and i do think they have [2:28:31] necessary oversight structures in place i would caution using christopher columbus given his treatment [2:28:35] of the people of hispaniola and noting that it was under the doctrine of discovery under the vatican [2:28:42] that was actually approved by the queen queen catherine of spain at the time and the idea of [2:28:46] expansionism and his own doctrine he came back and wrote in his diary that the people of this nation [2:28:53] do not know the wealth they have and will make great slaves for us yeah i'm not exactly a massive [2:29:00] christopher columbus fan in history just to be clear um mr ambassador i want to ask have you seen [2:29:08] with the current status of the haitian government or its transitional piece cooperation that would give [2:29:15] you any type of confidence that we're working towards stability and not just replicating what we've done for [2:29:24] a decade now yes um i think with a couple of uh specifics uh we had this transitional presidential [2:29:39] council that was set up that was sort of a rotating presidency um some of the people on it were tied up [2:29:47] with gangs some of them were very corrupt they were keeping their position simply so they would have immunity [2:29:53] uh from prosecution that is not the kind of government that gives anybody any kind of confidence of [2:29:59] stabilization or anything else thank you uh happily that that despite an effort that they made to [2:30:06] displace the prime minister and and prolong their their tenure that didn't happen they're gone uh the [2:30:14] prime minister uh you know it was not is certainly not an elected uh individual but he he seems to be [2:30:22] very dedicated in his mission which is to have an election and get somebody else elected he's not he's [2:30:29] not purporting to run for uh for office himself but not so i think we've got it not a dictatorship [2:30:35] style and someone who wants to see the success of his nation which is what we all want with uh running [2:30:40] over just a few seconds if i may you know haiti's very important especially to us in the great state [2:30:46] of florida but it's significantly important to me as the only member of congress who went and traveled over [2:30:50] to haiti in april of 2024 and conducted rescues one of those rescues which was 10 individuals out of an [2:30:58] orphanage uh the second rescue which was 13 people out of a missionary we wish that we could have gotten [2:31:04] more but also i was blessed to be able to work with the tim tebow foundation another great floridian [2:31:09] to get out 59 mentally and physically disabled children that barbecue and his gangs wouldn't murder [2:31:14] but would take their food and their medicine to watch them slowly die this is the type of barbarism [2:31:20] that we can't accept especially this close to our own shorelines and while this is one of multiple [2:31:27] rescues that we've been a part of and i was very thankful to the dominican republic and their government [2:31:32] for their support running out of porta plata dominican uh santa domingo and other areas we need [2:31:39] more cooperations we need congress to have better reporting and briefings and we need to have the [2:31:45] information so that we can use the tools that we have here which i know is near and dear to all of my [2:31:49] florida colleagues to try and make sure that we can support the efforts with that i will now recognize [2:31:55] the gentleman from maryland and i apologize for the additional time but you will get as well [2:32:00] representative for me thank you very much uh mr chairman my thanks to you and to obviously our [2:32:07] two witnesses this is a tough tough matter i spent three hours at the pentagon yesterday trying to better [2:32:15] understand a number of things that we are and are not doing and had briefings i'm sure colonel with [2:32:21] some of your colleagues there let me just say this about haiti i have a deep affection and affinity [2:32:29] for the country of haiti their 235 year history is replete with instances where they continue to [2:32:36] overcome great odds and our history with respect to them has been hands on hands off we didn't see [2:32:43] it let's not do it or let's put it off and so our treatment of haiti as a government has been [2:32:48] temperamental it's been periodic but it's never been sustained to the extent that we in fact are [2:32:56] trying to find a way to make sure that the foundations that need to be there are there they've got a [2:33:01] rich history i mean it was 1791 that slaves who did not get to america were dropped off there [2:33:08] and put together their own revolution against those who were enslaving them it took them three or four [2:33:14] years but they won they pushed back the troops that were coming in from france napoleon the quote great [2:33:22] napoleon sent his troops there with an armada across the south right off the shore of the uh the capital [2:33:31] threatening to invade and toussaint louverture who was the leader of the resistance beat napoleon you know [2:33:38] you don't talk about that enough with napoleon's history but he was defeated there turned around [2:33:42] and went back to france and then france in turn sends uh another big group of ships to come in and [2:33:48] blockade asian ports for the next 10 years and then impose something on them called financial indemnity [2:33:54] which means you've got to pay us in order for you to do business off your shores it's all those kind of [2:34:00] crazy things in 1915 president wilson had to send troops there because of the barbaric nature [2:34:07] of those persons who had overthrown the government and i think most of you know that from that point [2:34:14] on claude doc papa doc duvalier ruled with an iron hand he killed murdered tortured people when he left [2:34:23] his son baby doc came in and did the same thing it was so bad that by 1988 people were being hacked to [2:34:32] death going to vote pregnant women being hacked to death with machetes so this captured the world's [2:34:39] attention but it still took us several more years later to get involved in fact many of us argued with [2:34:45] president clinton at the time you've got to send in marines to stabilize what was really a torture and a [2:34:51] massacre so our marines went there they restored the the government uh and then there were attacks on [2:34:58] the government because we couldn't stay there so my point here is that this sort of violence that we've [2:35:04] seen in haiti did not start with barbecue but he has found a way to make it his sort of torture and his [2:35:11] sort of intimidation we know after that uh the earthquake came we realized that the former president [2:35:19] in 2021 was assassinated we've seen all sorts of crazy things take place since then i don't know to [2:35:25] what extent the cia is providing colonel you or others with intel with respect to what's happening [2:35:31] at that border in hispanol where the dominicans are on one side and where there's a lot of back and [2:35:37] forth trafficking or whether or not we're even monitoring it but my sense is that this guy barbecue [2:35:43] has found a way to impose tariffs if i can use that term uh and and and just outright fear in the minds of [2:35:53] people so that they're paying him so two quick things and i'm going to shut up temporary protective [2:36:00] status is ended i was here when it began it began because of some of the things that i talked about [2:36:08] earlier that people there were being killed left and right and nobody really wanted to pay any attention [2:36:14] to it we've got to find a way to extend that i've written to the white house we're going to continue [2:36:19] to push back and push back unfortunately the courts uh did not side with those people who are trying to [2:36:25] extend it but there are 300 000 haitians here if we sent them all back tomorrow you can bet a good [2:36:32] number of them will be killed and tortured because they will be seen as americans coming back or forced [2:36:38] to come back to that country so i i don't know to what extent uh mr ambassador you're prepared to talk [2:36:46] about your position on temporary protective status and the extension of it but i'd be welcome to hear it [2:36:53] well i think as we uh mentioned earlier uh representative tps of course is a is a determination [2:37:04] made by the department of homeland security um we oh yeah but they're not here this is not past the hot [2:37:13] potato today i'm just trying to get your sense as an individual about whether or not we should be [2:37:19] finding a way to extend it temporarily look what i have seen with other countries in the region where [2:37:25] we've had tps and and so on is that it's it's not the 300 000 i'll go back at once it's a quite a [2:37:33] number of the tps beneficiaries have now homeland security said they're going to move the great [2:37:38] dispatch to get as many out of this country as possible so that's the reality what they've said [2:37:45] and when you say that you have to say to every person who's here some of whom have families and most [2:37:51] of whom have families and raise their children now we're going to take you out of your neighborhood [2:37:55] send you back to haiti so you and barbecue can figure out what happens when you get off the plane [2:38:00] that is not the way the united states of america should be proceeding on this so when i asked i'm [2:38:06] assuming that you don't want to go beyond your orders here and give me your opinion but you have to have [2:38:13] some opinion and i would hope that people outside of the white house have opinions also we can't be [2:38:19] complicit in murders that are going to take place as a result of trying to throw 300 000 people [2:38:25] out of communities here in the united states and assume they're going to be okay when they get off [2:38:29] the plane i yield back thank you for the extra time mr chairman thank you so much and i appreciate [2:38:37] reiterating the history of violence that haiti has faced and how this isn't a new issue and has plagued [2:38:44] that nation for quite some time i will just also for the sake of stating it the same way that i would [2:38:50] never speak on behalf of the people of maryland as you wouldn't speak on behalf of the people of florida [2:38:56] it's difficult when the state department isn't able to respond to things because these are decisions [2:39:03] made by other departments like homeland security and like the department of war yes we have personal [2:39:08] opinions but you know as well as i do as an elected official sometimes our personal opinion of things [2:39:14] comes secondary to our constituency and so i i know it's a very difficult position to be put in [2:39:18] um and so i i i do appreciate that mr ambassador at this time i'd like to recognize uh an excellent [2:39:26] member the gentle lady from florida miss wasserman schultz who i know will have a series of great [2:39:31] questions regarding the people of haiti and her constituency which i believe makes up a quite a [2:39:37] significant amount of those and so uh i recognize you for five minutes but please feel free to go over [2:39:43] as well thank you so much thank you mr chairman it's good to see you up there a fellow floridian and uh [2:39:48] appreciate your kind words um i first i do want to yes acknowledge highlight that i represent one of the [2:39:55] largest haitian communities in the united states of america and i do mr chairman want to just make a [2:40:02] correction to an erroneous statement that chairman mast made before i arrived at this hearing when he said [2:40:09] that the terminated tps for haiti was only designated because of the 2010 earthquake the most recent [2:40:16] designate redesignation and um mr chairman if i can ask unanimous consent to submit for the record [2:40:22] the 2021 designation of haiti for temporary protected status without objection thank you [2:40:28] that most recent designation from the biden administration cites quote serious security [2:40:33] concerns social unrest human rights abuses crippling poverty and lack of basic resources [2:40:38] to say nothing of the fact that the humanitarian situation now is just as bad or worse if after as [2:40:45] after the earthquake um i mean if if an earthquake is the only valid reason for tps to be extended [2:40:52] why hasn't venezuela been redesignated for example they just got hit by two seven plus earthquakes um [2:40:59] that having been said um mr kozak you've indicated here that and acknowledged haiti is not safe um it's [2:41:08] dangerous particularly the capital um you vaguely referenced uh capcation uh as being potentially safe [2:41:17] where people are going back to i would no sooner want to be deported to um indiana than uh then i than [2:41:28] a haitian with tps here would want to be hate deported back to their country and not be able to return [2:41:34] to the place that they were from um and particularly given that the country is absolutely dangerous as [2:41:42] you've acknowledged the only explanation for sending people back to haiti knowing it is dangerous knowing [2:41:47] it will undermine the mission and lead to more death is evidenced by the personal animus that the [2:41:52] president seems to have for the haitian people um i think the president has shown a whole lot of that [2:41:58] despite all the testimony about cantering gangs the secretary of state and other members of the [2:42:03] president's cabinet made clear that mass deportations are their number one priority and i mean unless [2:42:10] you're talking about self-enrichment which is also ranks right up there with the president's priorities [2:42:15] your job is to stabilize haiti are those missions in conflict is it possible to stabilize haiti while [2:42:21] sending 350 000 people back there mr mfume just indicated correctly the president has said and [2:42:29] department homeland security has said they are planning on rounding up 2 000 haitians who have [2:42:37] no longer have tps a day and sending them back to haiti so um it is going to be a massive effort to [2:42:43] deport all 350 000 and you know i know that ripping haitians from their jobs and citizens kids uh that [2:42:51] that'll be the administration's priority uh that's an unacceptable situation and it's one that we should not [2:42:57] accept um uh chairman mills i i would commend to you legislation that i am working on and about to [2:43:04] introduce that would require that there be consultation with the department of state and [2:43:11] consider state's recommendations about the conditions on the ground in a country to factor [2:43:16] into whether it's appropriate to revoke tps for a particular nationality so i will send that over to [2:43:23] you i'd love to thank you thank you so much and obviously it's very important to get hold of government input [2:43:27] thank you very much um mr kozak i i also i have strong disagreements shifting gears here with this [2:43:33] administration but i want to highlight something important that the state department did do last [2:43:38] week for the past three years i've advocated for the release of cuban artist and political prisoner [2:43:42] luis manuel otero alcantara and i'm grateful that he's been freed and brought here to the united [2:43:48] states there are still hundreds of political prisoners in cuba including including michael castillo perez and [2:43:55] i'll work with anyone to help set them free so i want to share some quotes from cubans quote we are [2:44:02] locked in cages constant loud noises crying screaming all around i hear the sounds of guards punching the [2:44:10] clanking of handcuffs screaming horribly as they hit him i have asthma i can't breathe small meals that [2:44:17] arrive cold and water i would not give a dog i've not seen the sun for approximately one month [2:44:24] a trauma that will take a long time to race a race if it's even possible mr kozak what kind of [2:44:30] government would treat prisoners this way inhumane conditions no due process limited contact with the [2:44:35] outside world the cuban communist government right also our government because i think you should know [2:44:44] that those comments are from cubans here detained by ice and the reason that cubans are being held by [2:44:51] ice for months on end sent to random countries in africa where they're tortured or left for dead across the [2:44:56] border in mexico is that the cuban regime refuses to accept deport deportation flights correct they [2:45:04] accept some very few very few that's why we passed the cuban adjustment act and why president biden offered [2:45:11] humanitarian parole to cubans and haitians the same benefits that allow luis manuel to walk free today [2:45:18] unfortunately this president our current president simply believes that all cuban haitian and venezuelan [2:45:23] immigrants even those who pass background checks earn work permits and secure legal status are nothing [2:45:29] but criminals that's outrageous just as outrageous as you seem to indicate that the cuban regime which [2:45:35] does treat their people just like i described but unfortunately this current administration does too thank you [2:45:44] i go back the balance of my time thank you so much ambassador kozak i know you have a plane to catch [2:45:52] we do have a member who just came in from ohio uh representative miller if you have the time for [2:45:57] five minutes i will keep it to the five minutes at this time i recognize the gentleman from ohio [2:46:04] former military marine veteran representative max miller for five minutes thank you mr chairman and uh [2:46:10] thank you ambassador i'll try to keep it quick um that's probably been a long morning for you [2:46:15] so i'm just going to get right to it haiti is and has been plagued by endemic corruption gang violence [2:46:21] and narcotics trafficking for decades the earthquake in 2010 only exacerbated these underlying issues [2:46:28] since the country is so close to the united states homeland this chaos has prompted multiple united [2:46:33] states interventions to restore order all this instability has led hundreds of thousands of [2:46:38] haitians to flee there are many estimates out there that claim that there are anywhere between [2:46:42] 700 000 and 900 000 haitian migrants living in the united states and although we all can understand why [2:46:49] they do not wish to reside in haiti they cannot remain in the united states forever so it follows [2:46:55] that the united states congress as well as the federal government writ large has a vested interest [2:47:00] in seeing some semblance of stability in haiti naturally the un-led multinational security support [2:47:07] mission was a nearly one billion one billion dollar failure excuse me i'd look at that number again [2:47:13] that allowed haitian gangs to expand their control over their country i hope that the new gang [2:47:18] suppression force is more successful but even it has been in place for almost a year in haiti well [2:47:24] it still looks like haiti i don't need to tell you this but nobody on this committee or in congress [2:47:29] wants to see another united states intervention that's why we need innovative solutions you both are going [2:47:37] to help us explore how to avoid and figure out how to stabilize this troubled country so absolutely no [2:47:43] pressure gents uh but appreciate you being here ambassador kozak under un security council resolution [2:47:49] 2793 the special representative was required to produce a strategy with concrete time-bound [2:47:55] benchmarks no later than nine months after adoption that deadline passed three weeks ago on june 30th [2:48:02] and no strategy has been made public was it delivered at all are its benchmarks genuinely measurable [2:48:09] and will you commit to providing them to this committee yes sir my understanding is that the special [2:48:15] representative did provide the u.n security council and the standing group of partners uh such benchmarks [2:48:21] on uh june 29 so they they exist uh colonel gorkowski talked about them a little bit and i don't see any [2:48:30] reason we can't provide them to you i'm not sure of that i don't know what status they have yeah i trust [2:48:39] your word and i kind of knew the answer to that already i just wanted uh for the people and the american [2:48:43] people and everyone to hear uh that you are compliant and transparent and that you are willing [2:48:47] to work with the committee which i am grateful for so thank you for that answer uh last thing for [2:48:52] either witness and then you're off the hook and i'll get out of your hair uh with my remaining time [2:48:56] i'd like to just briefly hear from both of you to understand what success looks like but i'm more [2:49:01] interested to hear what you think failure looks like what does future of haiti look like after a [2:49:06] mission failure and what does it mean for the united states and please if you can you know be very candid [2:49:12] you know this is up for our constituents and there has been a lot of misinformation about this [2:49:16] context and topic i'll take a stab at it i mean when we came in and reviewed this to begin with one of [2:49:24] the options we looked at was okay can we just put a fence around it and say that we will never be able [2:49:30] to fix this place the cost of doing that is astronomical uh there's no way to it's so close to the [2:49:38] homeland there's aside from the human cost there's there's no good way to do it so we we really cannot [2:49:44] fail uh to to succeed in in this mission uh what i would say success looks like is that the gangs lose [2:49:56] their ability to control and dominate uh big parts of haitian territory particularly the vital infrastructure [2:50:05] the airport the ports the roads that interconnect the those with the with the cities so that people [2:50:12] can start to do business and and get on with a with a normal life so that's part of success but the other [2:50:18] part is getting a haitian government that people have that they feel they elected and have can have some [2:50:24] confidence in that's been absent for some time it's also having a haitian security force that can hold [2:50:30] those gains over time we've put a lot of money in over the years but the one thing i've never seen [2:50:37] was haiti ever have a security force that came anywhere close to the the size and the capability [2:50:44] that they that they really needed and then they start relying on gangs for things and you end up [2:50:50] back where we are today so that would be my my vision of what success looks like but failure is that [2:50:57] you end up with with gangs basically taking over a failed state and operating running drugs running [2:51:05] human trafficking um exporting uh all manner of chaos in the region and directly to the united states [2:51:13] and a huge massive outflow of of additional people who would be fleeing that chaos so that that's what we [2:51:20] don't want to see thank you very much and colonel you can speak but i'm over my time and i just want to be [2:51:25] conscious so so just lastly you know failure is very much this proto insurgency tipping over into an [2:51:33] insurgency that is a worst case scenario you know 2009 afghanistan we had a ratio of security personnel [2:51:41] to population that was about 108 000 people um we we can't see that in haiti you know that is uh [2:51:50] incredibly too much of a contribution so uh there are four elements of the threat that have to be [2:51:56] neutralized i mentioned arms and ammunition uh illicit revenue generation safe havens and alliances [2:52:02] success for us is the removal at this from the security standpoint of all four critical elements [2:52:07] of that uh gang white blood awesome thank you very much gentlemen very much appreciate your time thank [2:52:12] you mr chairman i go back thank you i want to thank the witnesses for their valuable testimony and for [2:52:18] your service and the members for their questions the members of the committee may have additional [2:52:21] questions for the witnesses and we will ask you to respond to these in writing pursuant to committee [2:52:26] rules all members may have five days to submit statements questions and extraneous materials for [2:52:30] the record subject to the length and limitations without objection the committee stands adjourned