Hillary Clinton’s Full Interview With Willie Geist On Sunday TODAY

[0:00] thank you for doing this it's so nice to see you it's so great to see you too willie [0:04] so we were uh started to talk about this master class that you sat down and do it's no light lift [0:10] i watched 16 episodes of you talking to camera and really spilling it and opening it what was [0:17] appealing to you about this idea you know when i was approached about doing it i had watched a few [0:26] master classes and i was really taken with those classes that were telling you how to do something [0:33] or what the process like you know how to how to write or how to cook something along those lines [0:39] and so when they asked me i said well you know what do you want me to talk about and they said [0:44] basically we want you to talk about why you have done what you've done throughout your life and [0:52] how you overcame setbacks and disappointments uh and really became so resilient i said well [1:00] i have a lot of experience of that because you know my my life has been covered as you well know [1:05] in you know sound bites and images and this was a chance to really get behind all of that to talk [1:13] about the why i mean why would somebody would anybody and in particular why would i um go into public life [1:21] go into public service go into politics and you know i've always believed that a life well lived [1:28] includes service to others and this class which gave me a chance to answer questions that they pose [1:35] to me and to talk about you know my growing up and some of the challenges that i faced you know seemed [1:42] like a way of breaking through and talking to people directly that i love and it was an amazing experience [1:51] willie you really get into i mean you started from your childhood and you get into to present [1:56] day was there anything as you sat down that you said i don't think i want to talk about that or did [2:01] you say here it is i said here it is because as i understand how master class is consumed by viewers [2:13] people are turning in for yes advice about something specific but also to hear from [2:19] people who've been in the public eye in whatever walk of life to kind of pick up either hints or ideas [2:26] here's what to do here's what not to do and i couldn't have done a master class that was filmed [2:32] over what three and a half days uh and was such a professional operation from start to finish [2:39] without being completely open and saying i'm here you can ask me whatever you want and i may [2:45] have some additional things to say too was there catharsis to it for you because as you say [2:51] you've been perceived a certain way and this was your chance to sort of maybe correct the record on [2:56] some of that did it feel given 2016 and some other things before that did it feel good to talk about [3:03] these out loud it did i i didn't expect that but at the end it was cathartic and it was [3:11] um an intensely personal experience because oftentimes people will say to me well you're not [3:20] what i thought you were or you're not what i expected and and i realize that you know for many [3:26] people who will never meet me personally will never be part of any project or opportunity that i'm [3:32] trying to pursue the only way they'll ever know me is through the media through both the mediated [3:40] media the made up media and the direct uh to camera media and so this was a chance to you know just be [3:49] myself and let people you know behind the curtain uh sort of new learn more about really who i am and [3:57] why i do what i do you talk about criticism that you've received over the course of your life in your [4:03] your professional career one of the challenges i would think of this is making your story which is so [4:09] extraordinary and so public relatable to other people just the average person who's watching [4:13] it and wants to feel resilient in their lives so how did you get at that part where someone can't [4:19] relate to running for president and having chance yelled at her and that kind of criticism too [4:24] i got some bad news at work or somebody said they don't like my dress how do you how did you square [4:29] those well i really wanted to uh ground what i was talking about in terms of what people might know [4:35] from the headlines or from you know the highlights of my career both the ups and the downs into like [4:43] the nitty-gritty so for example not everybody will make a speech in front of millions of people but [4:50] nearly everybody at some point is going to have to get over the fear of public speaking and is going [4:56] to have to figure out what is it i want to say and how do i say it and how do i learn how to do that [5:02] or the setbacks that happen uh in in life when maybe you're treated in your opinion unfairly how [5:09] do you respond to that how do you pick yourself up so it was really part of my goal in doing the [5:16] master class to be rooted in the kinds of experiences that maybe i've had on the international stage but [5:25] which are part of you know most people's um professional um or public life if they're in [5:31] any kind of public setting uh and i actually liked that because the master class uh team which is [5:39] predominantly a lot younger than i am uh would you know respond to something that i would say and they'd [5:45] say oh my gosh i never thought of it that way or i had this experience so i felt like even with the [5:52] people that are in the production of the master class that i was part of that i was able to connect [6:00] my experience with either their experience or their aspiration so how did you read and then deal with [6:06] the criticism that you've received which has been very harsh at times how do you deal with criticism that [6:13] includes people calling for you to be locked up during a presidential campaign how do you remain [6:19] stoic and do your job in the face of that well this was something that i learned over many years and [6:26] sadly have a lot of experience with um and it's what i tried to convey to the master class viewers [6:34] everybody's going to get criticized you you cannot live for very long without having somebody criticize [6:42] something about you or what you are doing so learning to deal with criticism is part of the human [6:49] experience it shouldn't be in any way thought of as only for people in the public eye and what i [6:56] learned was to take criticism seriously but not personally and by that i mean you know sometimes your [7:04] critics can give you good insight you may not want to hear it uh you may wish it hadn't been said but [7:13] you have to at least listen and evaluate it but a lot of the time if you allow it to impact you [7:22] personally as opposed to trying to look at it as another piece of information but if you feel like [7:30] it's a personal attack then it tears you down it doesn't give you tools to become a better you [7:38] so taking it seriously means number one really appreciating what the source of it is so a lot of [7:44] the most outrageous attacks insults that have been sent my way i don't take seriously or personally i [7:52] mean they are motivated by people who do want to tear me down want to create a false impression of who i [8:01] am and they can be dismissed um and you know you mentioned lock her up i mean what an absurd um and [8:09] in many ways dangerous uh attack because you know we're supposed to live in a society governed by the [8:17] rule of law and the people chanting that and yelling it at me um first of all had no idea what they were [8:25] talking about and and secondly uh we're being instigated to do that uh so i don't pay attention [8:31] to that kind of stuff but if you know somebody says well you know you she could have done a better job [8:36] explaining what uh she was doing or i didn't really get her point about you know why she wanted a health [8:45] care plan that did this instead of that i mean i will take that as they say on board and i'll say okay [8:51] i need to do better on that i need to express myself better i need to explain it more clearly [8:57] and i think that if people don't shrink from criticism but understand where it's coming from [9:05] evaluate it accordingly take it seriously where it's meant to be understood that way and not take [9:14] it personally you can you can go through life and withstand a lot of incoming [9:21] attacks because you have to that's a hard thing to do for some people though isn't it because your [9:26] instinct is to be defensive yes and to yes well it's not that i've always done it personal perfect [9:31] perfectly by any means because you know sometimes it's just so it's just so outrageous or it's so [9:37] mean-spirited or it's so off base and i mean you do get shaken by it but if you have what i'm talking [9:45] about in the master class a kind of system so that you you don't get knocked to your knees and can't [9:52] get up i mean i i know people who have been devastated by criticism and oftentimes you know it's young [9:59] women um who just haven't had the experience of dealing with mean-spirited comments nasty comparisons [10:10] you know the whole mean girl thing and they take it really personally and of course [10:15] now a lot of criticism is amplified online so it's not just somebody saying something to you as you [10:22] you know walk down the hall of a school or walk into a conference room in your office or wherever [10:28] else you might be it's magnified because hundreds of thousands maybe millions of people are seeing it [10:34] online so it's no longer uh a a skill that you should develop because you're in the public eye [10:43] what social media has done is made potentially everybody a target it breaks my heart willie to [10:51] see the kind of bullying and meanness that is directed at young people it's one of the reasons why [10:57] we now know there's a correlation between people on social media particularly young people [11:03] and an increase in anxiety and depression why did they leave me out why did they say i'm fat why did [11:09] they say i'm dumb why did they you just can't allow that to eat away at yourself and so if i can in my [11:17] own way through my experience help equip people to better deal with the inevitable criticism they're [11:24] going to face in real life or online i will have been really happy about that it's one of the great [11:28] concerns we have as parents of a 14 year old girl you know you go on instagram and so she doesn't have [11:34] instagram and she doesn't like us for that but she doesn't have it i applaud you as their as her [11:38] parents i say show me the upside and she can't hasn't yet made that case but the reason we know [11:43] it's damaging is because we've seen internal documents from facebook and instagram that show [11:48] us it affects young girls so we live in a different world than when you and i grew up and these are scary [11:54] things to know that there could be a pile on that affects someone you care about and love so much [11:59] in a way that could be devastating to her or to the family so what do we do about that well i think [12:06] one thing we do is uh admit there's a big problem uh and because of the information that we're finally [12:14] getting access to thanks to whistleblowers and the media doing their investigative work we're seeing that [12:21] facebook in particular and of course facebook owns instagram so facebook and instagram have known for [12:27] a long time that their algorithms which drive people down rabbit holes toward conspiracy and toward [12:35] crazy you know disinformation uh in you know posts that they unfortunately people are so drawn to [12:46] can have an impact we see it in every way in our individual lives our political lives but now [12:52] the information that they know that this kind of social media involvement for young kids teenagers [13:01] is bad for them and they persist in it and they seem almost uh defiant about it uh because you know [13:11] they they would like uh to have an instagram for children we're talking like five to 11 year old [13:17] children i mean and i've said you know i'm chaining myself to the you know to the door we're not [13:22] letting that happen we are conducting a massive experiment on our children because technology which [13:31] brings so much incredibly great things to all of us has downsides and we'd better be really honest [13:39] and understanding of those downsides and in addition to the algorithms meant to addict us [13:45] the impact on kids whose brains are not even fully formed until they're 25 and it affects literally [13:52] messaging in your brain and and if you are caught in a negative loop where people online are saying bad [13:59] things about you they're making fun of you it's really hard when you're 14 15 years old or younger [14:08] to say okay i'm gonna deal with this so part of what we have to do in addition to regulating better [14:14] and i hope that the administration and congress which seem to be looking at this will decide to [14:18] do that we need to better equip our kids and you know there's been a movement going back some years [14:25] for what they call media literacy i mean how do you know what's true who do you listen to we've got to [14:31] really double down on that in schools in our families to help our kids get better equipped so [14:37] if somebody is saying something bad about you in person you know stop and say to yourself why is that [14:43] person doing that because very often it's more about that person than it is about you maybe that [14:47] person is jealous or envious of you maybe that person is you know wanting to break you apart from [14:55] your friends and get you know those friends for that person him or herself you've got to understand [15:01] what the motivation is and then you've got to equip your kids to say get a life you know leave me alone [15:06] don't don't don't don't come at me like that online when it's anonymous or it is repetitive that's much [15:14] harder to do but that's part of the message behind my master class about getting resilience and building [15:21] resilience and not only in yourself but in people you care about and particularly young people because [15:28] i worry that we are kind of out of control i mean this impact of technology on young people on on [15:35] their brains is really something that we've got to say as parents as policy makers wait a minute no you [15:43] can't do this we got to fix this and then of course the impact on everything from you know the crazy [15:50] conspiracy theories about vaccines to elections and public officials all of which have huge [15:58] audiences because the way it's all designed is to attract those eyeballs and i am you know [16:06] very worried that we're not paying enough attention to the impact uh that all of this is having as [16:11] you say it goes from age five up to presidential elections as you know all too well i do um you talk a [16:17] lot about setbacks in the master class and being resilient in the face of setbacks and you talk about [16:23] some of the setbacks you've had in your professional life um 1993 heading up the task force for healthcare [16:30] reform and not getting there what did you learn from that experience and how were you resilient in [16:36] the face of it well that was uh an incredible learning experience as well as a devastating uh setback [16:44] um i learned a lot i learned number one that what seemed like a good idea at the time because you [16:51] know i'd practiced law i headed up all kinds of um uh programs to you know help my husband when he [16:59] was governor of arkansas to reform education to improve health care and the like that when bill [17:05] asked me if i would head this up what i did not understand is how much of a lightning rod that would [17:13] make me as quote the first lady taking on such an enormous undertaking i could have been supportive i could [17:20] have been an advocate for changes but putting me in charge which i felt you know very you know positive [17:26] about doing because i cared so much about it uh was a big red flag and it made it really difficult for [17:33] a lot of people to get beyond that then i think secondly what i learned uh in the specifics because when we [17:42] were working um in this uh group of experts and practitioners uh and in concert with the congress [17:52] is that um we we thought we could change the way uh people got insurance they could of course continue [18:02] to get it through their employer but they could also buy into the insurance market and get uh you know [18:09] a subsidy to do so which later we saw with the affordable care act but that we had to reform the [18:15] insurance industry and also get more of a handle on drug prices from the pharmaceutical industry and one [18:21] of the most curious things that i experienced is we would run the numbers when we had you know the [18:27] treasury department we had all these you know really great statisticians and and economists they would [18:32] run the numbers and we could show how the reform would save businesses money save families money save [18:40] the government money over time um and we would lay these out and i i remember meeting with ceos you [18:49] know big name ceos who uh would look at our numbers they bring their people together and wow they'd say [18:56] this sounds really good and and you know this might be something we'd support and it wouldn't be [19:02] you know 72 hours before they'd start backing off because people were scared of change even if the change [19:12] looked like and was you know carefully explained could improve their condition and they just didn't [19:20] want to risk it and particularly if they were already working for companies that provided you know pretty [19:26] good health insurance even though the costs kept going up and it was just a really hard sell to [19:33] change something although we weren't going for you know single payer we knew that that would never see the [19:40] light of day politically and and frankly culturally publicly we were going to try to get to universal [19:47] healthcare coverage by getting everybody into the system and you know they ran these famous ads like [19:53] ads like oh i don't know this doesn't look good what do you think you know i think they were called [19:58] harry and louise or something like that and you know they had a couple sitting there time this is [20:04] this seems too risky i mean they really understood the those who were not wanting any change and any [20:10] accountability frankly how to you know position that so we weren't successful but what i talk about in the [20:17] master class is okay that didn't work we couldn't get to universal health care coverage despite our [20:23] best efforts what can we do and for me having been involved with the children's defense fund and [20:29] being a child advocate how do we at least get children whose parents are not working for companies [20:34] that provide health care coverage or who are not in families poor enough to be eligible for medicaid [20:42] there's like 10 12 million of these kids and families what do we do for them [20:46] and that's when i started working on a bipartisan piece of legislation that became the children's [20:51] health insurance program so i felt like out of that setback and disappointment we kind of picked [20:56] ourselves up and at least provided health care for you know about 10 million kids a year so it was [21:01] the lesson that you kind of the swing was a little too big out of the gate and you have to take it [21:05] piece by piece yeah you know and and so that is how i see political change in america right now if [21:13] it's at all possible there is so much pent up uh support and opposition to any kind of change and [21:23] you know we i ran a whole primary campaign uh in 2016 about single-payer versus let's get everybody [21:30] you know finally covered finishing universal health care i ran that in 2008 i mean it was one of the areas [21:36] ironically that then senator obama and i disagreed with because i said you're going to have to have some [21:41] kind of mandate get everybody in the system he said no he ended up having one supreme court threw it [21:45] out i mean you know this is this is the kind of back and forth that is often required to expand [21:53] any kind of benefit or service uh to people and it's you know why i think what uh you know president [22:01] biden is trying to do is is consequential incremental and consequential because you know with the [22:08] infrastructure bill we've been talking about infrastructure for what 25 years and finally [22:12] we've got a bill we are woefully behind in repairing maintaining and building all kinds of physical [22:19] infrastructure plus building out broadband and other things that are important to our economy [22:25] and then with the so-called build back better we know that if you want to have an economy especially [22:32] post-pandemic that really grows and has opportunities particularly for mothers with children [22:38] you're gonna have to do something about child care and you're gonna have to do something about paid [22:42] family leave these are not just nice things these are really economic necessities going forward in [22:48] the world we find ourselves to the point about your experience is the lesson that they shouldn't take [22:53] this two trillion dollar package and shove it through at once should they take child care should they [22:58] take the tax credit should they take those pieces and pass them on their own no i i think given where [23:02] we are right now and given how much has been cut out of that bill because remember i think it started [23:08] at three and a half trillion or whatever it was um i think the pieces that are left that came through [23:14] the house based on negotiation because remember uh there were people in the so-called progressive [23:21] caucus people in the so-called more moderate uh you know caucus who were in great disagreement [23:27] about what should be in the bill and how it should be paid for they came to an agreement uh in the [23:34] house and i think that's a pretty good indicator uh that what's in the bill right now uh can be both [23:43] explained and defended now i have no idea what's going to happen in the senate having served there for [23:47] eight years it's always a uh you know near-death experience uh i hope something comes out um of the senate [23:55] before christmas because i think there is a lot of important needs in families and in climate change [24:06] that are in that bill that will make us stronger and more prosperous uh going forward um so i think [24:13] there was a give and take i mean part of the challenge is when you negotiate in public it's like [24:19] what do they say don't watch legislation or sausage being made people get their hopes up they get their [24:24] hopes dash they get disgusted by the process they get turned off all of that happens and and i've [24:30] been in a lot of closed door meetings you know arguing about what should be in a bill what shouldn't [24:36] be in a bill and i understand that for people who are just tuning in and out it might look crazy because [24:41] here we are you know arguing about this that and the other but that is the way a democracy works that [24:47] is the way um legislation gets passed and and i think i would argue that if you look at the challenge [24:54] posed by climate change what's in these two bills um the one that's already passed the one that i hope [25:00] will pass is critically important not just for dealing with the threat of rising temperature uh in a [25:09] way of trying to lower emissions but mitigating against it you know we have parts of our country [25:16] already up in alaska along the coastline that have been devastated we have noonday flooding in miami [25:24] beach we have a lot that's already happening that we're going to have to mitigate against so all of [25:27] that is in these bills and i hope it comes to pass there's always consternation and hand-wringing about [25:33] the democratic party is it too progressive should the centrists win the day if you look at the way i [25:38] don't have to tell you this presidential campaigns are won whether it's your husband or joe biden [25:43] they tend to understand where the middle is while keeping progressives close so where do you think [25:48] the democratic party is right now because there are people who say the lesson of say glenn youngkin [25:54] in virginia was that he grabbed some of those independents and those centrists and that maybe [25:59] the campaign terry mcauliffe ran was too far left so what do you see as the state of the democratic [26:04] party right now um i i think that it is um a time for uh some you know careful thinking about what wins [26:13] elections and not just in deep blue districts where uh a democrat and a liberal democrat or so-called [26:21] progressive democrat is going to win first of all we don't know what the state of the map is going to be [26:27] after all of the redistricting it appears as though the republicans in a number of states are doing their [26:34] best to eliminate uh as many seats that democrats can be uh competitive in uh and so we've got to be [26:43] very clear-eyed about what it's going to take to hold the house and the senate in 2022 and to win the [26:50] electoral college because also republicans are doing everything they can to um create an environment in [26:57] which winning the electoral college uh even narrowly the way joe biden did will be out of reach for a [27:04] democrat so i understand why people want to argue for their priorities that's what they believe they [27:11] were elected to do but at the end of the day nothing is going to get done if you don't have a [27:16] democratic majority in the house in the senate and our majority comes from people who win in much more [27:22] difficult districts and our majority in the senate comes from people who can win in not just blue [27:30] states and hold those wins as we saw didn't happen in virginia but can win in uh more purplish uh states [27:40] so look i'm all about um having vigorous debate i think it's it's good and it gives people a chance to [27:49] be part of the process but at the end of the day it means nothing if we don't have a congress that [27:54] will get things done and we don't have a white house that um we can count on to be sane and sober and [28:02] stable and productive uh so this is going to be a very intense period uh not just for the democratic [28:10] party but for the country uh you know if you look at virginia and you look at what was a relatively much [28:17] closer race in new jersey than i think people had expected and of course i was strongly supporting [28:23] both phil uh and terry i think there are a lot of lessons i mean one of the lessons is even though [28:32] turnout in virginia went up um the vote that terry got was 600 000 more than what he got when he won [28:40] and 200 000 more than what northram got when he won the vote on the other side went up even more [28:47] and so what are the different kinds of motivations that voters who would be more willing to vote [28:55] for democrats are going to need to show up and we have an unfortunate pattern you know when when [29:02] uh bill became president uh and pushed through a lot including the brady bill the assault weapons ban [29:09] deficit reduction raise taxes on the wealthy people forget that he lost the congress two years later [29:16] when barack obama came in after the worst financial crisis of our lifetimes you know not since the [29:23] great depression pushed through the affordable care act put through big stimulus programs you can argue [29:27] was it big enough or not big enough but he pushed it through and we began a slow steady recovery you [29:34] know the 2010 uh midterm was not good the shellacking as he called it shellacking and so this is a this is a [29:44] phenomenon that it is as much psychological and cultural as it is political democrats get elected [29:51] and they eventually serve two terms as both bill and barack did um to fix things i mean people want [29:58] these leaders and both of them obviously were charismatic and and very bigger than life you know kinds of uh [30:05] leaders but they want them to fix things and fixing things is hard and fixing things often creates [30:11] dissonance like oh my gosh okay all right i voted for an assault weapons ban oh my gosh can i defend it [30:18] or if the other side is more intensely feeling about it you know what do i have to do to try to combat [30:23] that it becomes complicated and the same with the affordable care act and other things that you know [30:28] president obama got passed so here we are with president biden who i agree with you was in many ways i [30:35] think now looking back the candidate running who was most likely to defeat trump in part because he was [30:45] you know really focused on what he needed to say and do to make people feel that he had a pair of [30:52] safe hands that they could trust and they did and his popular vote margin was enormous biggest in american [30:59] history his electoral vote margin was not much bigger than my loss was so the numbers that you [31:07] have to look at when you are trying to put together a winning campaign whether it's for the house the [31:13] senate or the white house are really hard and if you're living in an ecosystem like we are now where lies [31:22] are the currency for the other side um and whether it's fox news or breitbart or social media the lies [31:30] never end and they are well designed to make people uneasy to make people frustrated like one of the [31:38] things that i think happened in virginia after having schools closed for so long people were really [31:45] focused on schools and education and i don't think that the democrats and terry understood how disoriented [31:54] particularly moms were about the experience that they had gone through the critical race theory [32:02] argument was a kind of stalking horse for all of the anxiety and the fear of zoom education of kids [32:11] being depressed because they weren't with their friends of moms having to leave the workforce to [32:15] take care of their kids there were some real issues that needed to be addressed in a in a careful [32:22] thoughtful way but the other side knew okay there's an issue let's really rev it up let's get people [32:29] upset and angry and and let's do it by talking about critical race theory and the books in the [32:34] library and all of that when the real concern which should have been recognized was you know what this [32:41] has been a hard hard year here's what i'm going to do to make it easier and you know but you know that's [32:48] all in retrospect you're right though i mean there if you ask that it's in the polling most a mother [32:54] or father in suburban washington lives in virginia what is critical race to i don't really know what [32:59] that is but i know something's got to change with my kid's school this has been a brutal year and [33:03] whoever's talking about fixing it i'm going to vote vote for him yeah and and you know that and i think [33:08] there was another issue that again um you know phil murphy who passed through a quote very progressive [33:15] agenda i mean raised the minimum wage did a lot of other really good things it's hard to compete [33:24] on the social media and sort of fox news world stage with accomplishments i mean really i raised the [33:35] minimum wage i mean i'm so proud of that yeah but what about this what about that what about this crazy [33:41] thing you're making people get vaccines and for all we know they have microchips i mean you if you're [33:46] a if you're a let's say sensible centrist to to progressive public official politician and you're [33:55] trying to actually get things done help people solve their problems how do you market that especially [34:02] against the tsunami of attacks and insults and cultural tokens that are being used to whip people [34:10] up and then the use of social media so all of us democrats obviously have to figure out a better way of [34:15] doing that and brag about the things like joe biden going out with the infrastructure bill here's the [34:20] bridge that we're going to fix doing all those kind of events yes um you mentioned 2016 i think the [34:25] moment that is going to stick out to most people in this master class is an extraordinary one where you [34:31] sit down and you read what you call the would-be victory speech that was supposed to be delivered at [34:36] the javits center november 8th 2016. right what compelled you to sit down and revisit that speech [34:44] well master class asked me to uh again i wanted to be as helpful as i could to the viewers and to the [34:54] process of being in a master class and i admit i was somewhat doubtful i didn't as you know write a [35:01] concession speech because even though we had a lot of bumps those last 10 days uh i i still thought [35:07] you know we could pull it out and our polling and analytics um suggested we could and so i worked on [35:16] um a speech that really was about my journey and had had a real emphasis on my mother's life and [35:25] journey because i talked a lot about that during the campaign as a way of you know making it clear that [35:31] yes i would be the first woman president but i i like everybody uh stood on the shoulders and lived [35:39] the lives uh and the experiences of those who came before us so when they asked me to do it um i really [35:48] had a hard time getting through it i mean it it partly was so emotional because it brought back [35:53] what to me was a uh great loss not just for me but for our country with somebody like trump getting [36:01] elected despite everything and i think his four years in office sort of proved my fears about that [36:08] but it was also intensely personal particularly at the end where i talk about um the little girl my [36:14] mother was when she was put on a train in chicago at the age of eight in charge of her you know younger [36:19] sister by themselves to go live uh with her paternal grandparents because her mother and father didn't [36:26] want them anymore and you know my whole emphasis um starting when i was in law school going forward on [36:34] working for kids you know neglected and abused kids uh sick kids poor kids kids with disabilities all of [36:43] that was in many ways um motivated by the life my mother lived and how her abandonment and her [36:56] uh resilience uh to keep going and to end up you know being an incredible mother for me and my brothers [37:05] uh was what i wanted for every child no matter what happened to that child no matter what setback [37:11] that child might experience what could we do uh what could a family do what could a community what could [37:16] a country do to try to make that a little easier make it a little more stable um so that kids would have [37:24] the foundation that they needed and you know it was part of what informed all of my campaigns including [37:31] in 2016. yeah it's i had to go back and reread i watched it once the master class and i went back [37:37] and reread all the details of your mother's story of the childhood and then and then i watched it again [37:42] because to think of an eight-year-old girl and she's the big girl yeah with her little sister yeah being [37:48] sent across the country on a train to live with grandparents who didn't treat her great either [37:54] when it's the last two minutes of that speech what catches you as you read that well what catches me [38:03] is i envision her being on that train and i envision myself kind of going back in time being you know [38:14] being an adult who has just been elected president and in part elected to protect and nurture and [38:22] support families to support kids that's really how i uh think about it and so i envision myself being on [38:30] that train and you know going down the aisle and finding this little girl and sitting down and talking [38:36] with her and telling her it was going to be okay uh it really it it it was an image that so captured [38:47] sort of what i care about and and what i've tried to do in my professional and public career [38:57] and it was a way of having her with me you know that on that journey um that i hoped would end up at [39:04] the javits center that night uh so it was incredibly emotional and uh yeah i um i i appreciate them [39:13] asking me to do it um because it's so reflective of what i care about and who i am did it feel good we [39:22] were talking about catharsis at the beginning i know people who've known you for a long time [39:26] and say they've never seen that level of public emotion from you well that's probably true and you [39:32] know part of it willie is when you're a a woman in public life and you are especially somebody who [39:40] is trying to break that glass ceiling trying to knock down barriers you're kind of damned if you [39:46] do and damned if you don't i mean if you show emotion that may connect with some people but for [39:52] a lot of people it's like told you you know a woman shouldn't have these jobs you know they're too [39:58] emotional although you know ronald reagan could cry or you know other presidents could get teary-eyed [40:03] that's okay it's like an added attribute that you can attach to a man but it's a disqualification [40:09] attached to a woman and as someone who was trying to be the first woman president and i looked to [40:16] women in you know recent history um you know one of the things that you never saw is very much emotion [40:24] i mean think about margaret thatcher think about angela merkel think about indira gandhi i mean you [40:30] you think about the women who rose to the head of state or head of government in places where [40:36] they've already done that which we haven't and yeah i've talked with some of them you know angela [40:41] merkel's a friend of mine it's really hard because you want to convey the emotion you feel because it [40:50] does connect you with many people but it can be so mercilessly received by the press and the public [40:59] and i write about this in the book i wrote after the 2016 election what happened you know because [41:04] i remember that second debate and trump stalking me and so in addition to answering people's questions [41:10] i'm thinking like wait a minute you know this is outrageous he's like looming over me and he's [41:17] trying to show that you know this is the alpha man and that's who should be president i get the whole [41:22] psychological gamesmanship but what do i do do i pivot around and say you know back up you creep [41:30] you're not going to intimidate me do i try to make a joke about it but that acknowledges that he got to [41:38] me how would that be received because no woman's ever been in that oval office and we still have [41:44] sadly you know a a minority but nevertheless a minority of votes of people who just don't see [41:53] a woman ever in that office and we saw that with you know the terrific women who ran in you know 2020 [42:00] and not one of them won a caucus they didn't win a state i mean it it's hard and when you're the first [42:06] out there and you're trying to figure out all of the cultural psychological political uh currents [42:16] so i said no i'm not you know i'm going to ignore the guy and i don't want somebody saying if she can't [42:21] handle donald trump how's she going to handle latimer putin or xi jinping i'm not you know no i'm [42:26] gonna stick to my business i'm gonna make my case you know was that the right decision the wrong [42:32] decision who knows because it never was a decision that a woman had to make before and so part of [42:37] what i hope you know viewers get out of the master class is yeah i've had some unique experiences [42:43] but my unique experiences are rooted in everyday people's uh experiences particularly women you know [42:51] the women who get looked up and down when they walk into a meeting the women who when they show up [42:56] you know for uh the meeting are told to get the coffee the women who put an idea out there and [43:03] nobody pays attention to them and then you know two minutes later a man says the same thing and [43:07] everybody says that's a great idea these are common experiences and if i can through my you know rather [43:14] public uh life uh help somebody say okay wait a minute let me at least think through what i would do [43:20] and let me be prepared and you know sometimes humor works sometimes you know pushing somebody back [43:28] works you know these are all the nuances of what it's like to be a woman you know in the workforce [43:34] and i remember lily ledbetter you remember lily ledbetter that fabulous woman from alabama who'd worked [43:40] on a factory floor for decades and rose through the ranks to become a foreman uh you know one of the [43:47] managers on the floor and it was so proud of herself and then learned that she wasn't getting [43:54] paid the same for doing the very same job so she raised a fuss about it and it turned out she never [44:02] got the pay that she was entitled to but she paved the way for millions and millions of other women [44:08] uh to finally have you know the right to claim what they are due so sometimes when you're the first [44:14] through the door the the first on the you know issue that is um upsetting you you may not get [44:22] what you are hoping for yourself but you open the door paved the way for others and she had a law [44:28] named after her yes she did ultimately i know i know so one of the things that really struck me [44:34] listening you read the would-be victory speech was how all these sort of grace notes that you put in [44:40] there you were gracious to donald trump you said this is a time for unity we have to stop this [44:46] fighting we don't want the country doesn't want to be divided and in fact things went just the opposite [44:51] way so how painful was it for you and has it been to watch the country since that day right and what [45:01] what's happened to us over the last five years i'd say the last four years between 2017 and 2021 [45:09] were incredibly difficult and painful for me because when i gave my concession speech the next day um [45:17] i i hoped for the best from donald trump you know i thought the campaign was really uh vicious and [45:27] mean-spirited i thought the help he got from you know literally cambridge analytica and wikileaks and [45:33] russia and all the rest of it was really scary but i hoped that being in the oval office being the [45:42] president would have a really both modifying and uplifting effect on him and then i went to the [45:50] inauguration and i heard that outrageous speech about carnage in the street there wasn't one grace [45:57] note in that inaugural address there wasn't anything that said okay i know some of you didn't vote for [46:03] me but i'm your president which is what a president's supposed to do which is what we're seeing from joe [46:08] biden who is modeling the exact opposite of that kind of presidential behavior but it was what he did [46:19] and how he abused the office and how he uh mistreated people uh starting you know with the muslim [46:28] ban through the outrageous behavior uh in trying to overturn the election and encouraging an attack [46:35] on our capital the one advantage trump had and to some extent still holds is he is so outrageous in [46:46] attacking our institutions and undermining our rule of law that it's hard for people to believe [46:53] literally what they are seeing before them i think it's still hard for some of the press frankly willie to [46:59] understand this man is still trying to overturn an election he lost you know i will tell you honestly [47:07] i had much more basis to try to overturn 2016 if you really looked at voter suppression and some of [47:13] the other things that went on and this guy has no basis at all in law or fact there's not a single [47:21] credible piece of evidence he does not care he wants to destroy this country's institutions [47:30] and sadly the republican party has gone along with him and for the life of me people who i knew that i [47:38] served with who fall in line on the outrageous accusations they make whether it's against dr tony fauci [47:48] or pretending that what happened on january 6 wasn't an insurrection honestly they have hung their spines [47:57] up on the wall as they walk into their offices they have no conscience they have no spine [48:03] and we are seeing the results of a party that has been taken over by a demagogue and we know from [48:10] history that's not good news that's scary news and we have to do much more than we're doing now to fight [48:17] back against this very organized effort to undermine our elections to put into place [48:24] laws and regulations that are contrary to fair process to fair voting um and i i worry that still [48:37] too many people are like oh it can't be that bad or it can't it can't go that far it's a failure of [48:44] imagination and i wrote after january 6 that one of the findings after 9 11 by the 9 11 commission was a [48:52] a failure of imagination after january 6 i think it still is a failure of imagination that the congress [49:03] through its committees in the house particularly are trying to get to the bottom of what happened [49:10] there is no um sense of duty or honor on the part of many of the people that worked for trump [49:19] they don't want to cooperate probably they're complicitous in some way and they don't want that to be [49:25] uh proven but i am very worried and it didn't end with his defeat i think a lot of people thought okay [49:34] you know wow he messed up this vaccine thing and i mean telling people to inject bleach and this crazy [49:40] stuff let's get rid of him let's bring in somebody who is familiar who we think has the right values and [49:46] let's put him in charge and there has been nothing but relentless attacks on biden against his policies [49:55] from the very first day and you know we it's a time to decide whether we're going to be a grown-up [50:02] country or not are we going to give in to all of this uh all these lies and this disinformation and [50:11] this organized effort to undermine our rule of law and our institutions are we going to stand up to it and [50:16] part of what standing up to it means is you know supporting those people starting with the president [50:21] who is trying to model sensible leadership trying to get things done that'll actually help the whole [50:27] country so what do you see as a potential outcome i don't want to go complete doomsday but i mean of [50:34] what might be possible here because as you say it's not one man it's a lot of people who've gone [50:38] along for the ride and people you've worked with and people you know and people i interview who behind [50:42] the scenes will roll their eyes about donald trump or outright say they hate the guy and then they'll [50:47] rush down to mar-a-lago and take a picture with them so that they can show it to their supporters [50:51] and raise some money so if you have if it's not just about a guy if it's about a group of people [50:57] what do you see as being possible what could happen here well i think we have to keep stripping [51:03] away the facade and you just said something that i think is important because i know i occasionally [51:09] have conversations with some of them they can't stand him they think he's dangerous and they're [51:15] scared of their base and the base that he has inflamed and only a very few um have done anything [51:23] resembling a profile in courage as we know more often those who can't take it anymore are basically [51:29] quitting they're retiring but they have said though they have said enough to journalists like you for [51:35] you to say wait a minute you know you rolled your eyes back in the green room you know what last time [51:41] i talked to you uh before you went on you said the guy is dangerous i want you in front of you know [51:47] our public right now to tell us is he dangerous or is he not i think that there has to be a continuing [51:53] effort by the press and and others i think and i just not to interrupt you they won't even come on [51:58] the shows anymore because they don't want to be asked they don't want to be in public they don't [52:02] want to be asked and i think we have to continue a drumbeat against fox news which has been uh an [52:08] instrument for this destruction i mean who was probably the first person in the united kingdom [52:15] to get vaccinated rupert murdoch rupert murdoch in december as soon as the vaccines were available [52:23] made it clear he needed a vaccine he got a vaccine and then he has a station which does nothing but [52:31] spread lies and then the station and the corporation tell everybody they have to be vaccinated but then [52:38] they continue to incite people and create this wild disconnect that people who are fox news viewers are [52:47] living in the guy who set it all up runs it profits from it everybody who works for him they're all [52:54] vaccinated but let's bring on another kook to say how you know it's going to upset your dna make you [52:59] infertile and you know put a chip in your head it's so it's not only hypocritical it goes far beyond [53:07] that is it is shameful uh and it is dangerous so anything that can continue to be done to call [53:15] them out to call them to account you know two journalists just quit because of you know something [53:20] that i guess tucker carlson had done uh on the kyle rittenhouse case turning this you know young man who [53:29] had no business with the automatic weapon walking into a protest in the first place at 17 years of [53:36] age you know turning him into some kind of you know minor right-wing hero and you know two journalists [53:41] walked out the more attention and focus and pressure that can be brought there all to the good but we do [53:47] have to figure out how we're going to manage the tsunami of false information that people digest and [53:55] believe and we've not done a very good job and i've had this conversation endlessly with people [54:02] not just in journalism but you know people in politics say okay if you look at the top 10 facebook [54:09] feeds nine out of ten sometimes ten out of ten are all right-wing propaganda and they're saying terrible [54:16] things about joe biden terrible things about kamala harris they're still saying terrible things about me [54:20] because they can't rid themselves of their obsession with me but they're making up stuff all the time and [54:26] they are feeding that to people and we're just not i mean nobody is competing with that and people [54:33] will say to me yeah but we don't lie okay i agree with that we don't lie we're gonna have to figure [54:38] out how to tell the truth in a more impactful algorithmic addictive way because otherwise people [54:45] are just going to be lost in this flurry of disinformation and they're going to end up believing [54:53] stuff that is not only not true but undermining our country and look if i were a betting person [54:59] right now i said trump is going to run again i mean he seems to be setting himself up to do that [55:03] and if he's not held accountable then you know he he gets to do it again and he gets to try to squeak [55:10] through the electoral college because he's going to have you know hand-picked people running elections [55:15] in critical states i i think that could be the end of our democracy not to be too you know appointed [55:23] about it but i want people to understand that this is a make or break point if he were or someone of [55:29] his ilk were once again to be elected president and if especially he had a congress that would do his [55:37] bidding you will not recognize our country and you know some people i think say to themselves well [55:42] it's not going to affect me if the the level of corruption that comes with autocracy affects [55:51] everybody he doesn't you know he doesn't like your business because it competes with the business of a [55:57] friend of his hide and watch what he does i mean it just is a terrifying prospect so given everything [56:05] you've just described giving everything that donald trump unleashed in the years after he won that election [56:12] do you ever have moments of responsibility or even guilt about what's happened of course because you [56:20] know i um yeah i i tried to warn people i tried to make the case that uh this was really dangerous [56:31] the people he was allied with what they were saying what he might do um and i do i mean that's why i [56:38] wrote a book i was trying to figure out okay what happened and i i got a lot of the i think pieces [56:45] right in that book it stands up pretty well over time um and i do think but for jim comey and the [56:52] stunt he pulled uh 10 days before the election i would have won i mean there's a lot of evidence to [56:57] that effect i have polling i have uh analytics i have lots of things that show when he acted as though [57:04] there was something to be found in old duplicate emails instead of doing whatever investigation he [57:11] needed to do first uh before making a public display of it yeah i i lost ground i mean i i don't remember [57:19] the exact numbers but let's just take the philadelphia suburbs so before that happened i was [57:24] something like 33 points ahead in the philadelphia suburbs uh then i lost like 18 points uh in the in that [57:32] 10 days because people who you know they they were just kind of coming especially women especially [57:40] women in the suburbs of places like philadelphia or milwaukee um or detroit they were just like saying okay [57:48] you know um i'm gonna give her a chance you know i i i there's i'm not sure but i'm gonna give her a [57:54] chance and then this came along and they just kind of like said i can't you know and we have so much [58:00] evidence of that so yeah i feel terrible about i feel terrible about uh not winning i feel terrible [58:07] about not stopping him and the people around him um but i i feel like now everybody can see for [58:17] themselves what kind of leader he is and he got more votes this last time than he got when he ran [58:23] against me and clearly there were people who liked what they saw despite what i see as the real [58:32] dangers to our country they turned out and voted for him and he's trying to get it set up so that [58:40] will happen again for him even if he loses as he did twice the popular vote so part of being resilient [58:49] getting outside a little bit yes it has kept me sane uh for years now i love living here north of new [58:59] new york city as you know because there are so many places so many forest preserves and parks and [59:05] beautiful trails to walk on which i try to do every day if i can you talked about after the 2016 [59:11] election sort of going into the woods for a while yes and then being ready to come out at some point [59:16] yes i mean literally the very first day after the election when i said okay i got to go for a walk [59:21] this is dude overwhelmingly depressing and i ran into this young woman with her dog and her baby and [59:28] she gave me a big hug and yes going into the woods i find deeply restorative and um i don't know just [59:36] being outside is something that i want to do even more of every chance i get what would people like [59:42] that woman say to you in the days after election they would cry they would cry they would say they were [59:47] so sorry they'd say they you know lots of times they would say they would they worked so hard sometimes [59:52] they would say i'm so sorry i didn't vote or i forgot to vote or i didn't think you needed me um [59:58] yes so there was lots of those encounters but it was really touching and you know a lot of people [1:00:05] are still you know in their own hearts and minds struggling with that election in part because we saw [1:00:12] what came after and it was you know quite disturbing you talked in your concession speech the next morning [1:00:18] directly to young women and girls and say don't give up hope why was that important well because i [1:00:24] had so many young girls and young women not only who worked for me but who would come to my rallies [1:00:30] who would come dressed in pantsuits who would come holding signs they made at home and i didn't want [1:00:37] them to get discouraged from pursuing their own dreams and really things that are important to you [1:00:44] things that are valuable they're worth fighting for even if you don't win all the time you know you [1:00:50] still have to get up and and care about the world you're in and care about each other and do what you [1:00:56] can to make a difference uh and i wanted to be sure to you know convey that um at what was a you know [1:01:03] obviously really low moment for me but an opportunity to have that final uh conversation you think we'll see [1:01:12] a woman president well i sure hope so willie but you know we'll got to make it happen it's not easy [1:01:19] as i know very well and uh we have to continue to push back on all of the caricatures and the stereotypes [1:01:26] and the unfair uh assumptions uh that still play too big a role in both the media coverage of women [1:01:34] candidates and women office holders but also more generally out in the public thank you so much for [1:01:39] for your time today this is fun get you out of the cold i enjoyed it