Washington Week with The Atlantic full episode, Nov. 13, 2026

[0:01] Jensen Huang is out, Pete Hegseth is not out, Chuck Schumer could conceivably be out, [0:07] Howard Lutnick is mostly in but could also be out, and Scott Colombe is very much in. [0:12] Tonight we'll discuss an event-filled week, but mainly what we'll do is talk about the [0:17] life and legacy of one of the greats of our profession, the former moderator of this program, [0:22] Gwen Ifill, who left us 10 years ago this week. [0:26] Next. [0:29] This is Washington Week with The Atlantic, corporate funding provided by Consumer Cellular. [0:39] Major funding has been provided by Friends of Washington Week with The Atlantic, including [0:45] William C. Paley Foundation, George D. Hanby III in memory of Mary Jane Bunny Glick and of [0:52] his brother Jay Hanby. [0:54] Additional funding provided by Sandra and Carl DeLay Magnuson, Charles Hamowy to the Charles [1:01] Fund, Rose Herschel and Andy Shrieves, Jay and Sharon Rockefeller, Robert and Susan Rosenbaum, [1:09] The Ewan Foundation, Don and Janine Blom, Steve and Marilyn Kerman, Leonard and Norma Chlorfein, [1:19] Maria and Walter B. Witcher, Paul and Shelley White, and these individuals, and the following [1:28] contributors, and by contributions to your PBS station from viewers like you. [1:36] Thank you. [1:37] From the David M. Rubenstein Studio at WETA in Washington, D.C., Editor-in-Chief of The Atlantic [1:44] and moderator Jeffrey Goldberg. [1:47] Good evening, and welcome to Washington Week. [1:51] It's hard to believe, but Gwen Ifill, an icon of American journalism, died 10 years ago, [1:56] November 14, 2016, at the much too young age of 61. [2:01] She was a friend, confidant, and advisor to me, and to so many people across journalism. [2:07] We'll talk about Gwen tonight, and her trailblazing role in journalism, and what she might make [2:12] of today's Washington Circus. [2:15] Before we do this, I'll talk about some of the news of the week with my guests, John Dickerson, [2:20] contributing writer at The Atlantic and co-host of the Political Gab Fest podcast. [2:24] Jonathan Karl is the Chief Washington Correspondent for ABC News. [2:28] And Michelle Norris is a Senior Contributing Editor for MSNOW. [2:33] Thank you all for being here, all of you friends and admirers of Gwen. [2:37] I appreciate you doing this on a sad occasion, but I'm glad that we get to sit and talk for [2:43] a little while. [2:44] Let's talk about the news. [2:45] We're not going to talk about the Friday the 13th ground stop, because it's developing [2:49] as we speak, but it doesn't seem like a great day to fly. [2:52] Well, the whole week has been one fragile reminder of the membrane between the day as [2:58] we go through it and total collapse. [3:01] There's the FAA, the ground stop. [3:02] You had the outlook. [3:04] Microsoft Outlook was down for two days. [3:06] People didn't know what to do. [3:07] And Jensen Wang, the head of the most important AI company in the world, has a total and complete [3:13] collapse, which means the center of the AI economy is fibrillating. [3:17] Well, thanks for the buzzkill. [3:22] That was a reasonable summary of a week that probably should end. [3:24] I wanted to ask... [3:25] We'll get to Jensen Wang in a second. [3:27] I wanted to ask Michelle about Pete Hegseth. [3:30] Narrowly escapes impeachment, but this is something that is going to happen again, we think. [3:36] Yes. [3:37] Yes, it will. [3:38] I mean, he did a lot of chest-pounding afterwards and called it a stunt. [3:43] But he should be prepared for this to happen once the Democrats take over the House and [3:47] the Senate. [3:48] He will definitely face impeachment again. [3:49] And, you know, the interesting thing that we have to remember is we're a nation at war. [3:54] And the SECDEP, the head of the Department of Defense, I guess that he calls it the Department [3:58] of War... [3:59] Right. [4:00] ...is facing impeachment. [4:01] I mean, normally when a country is at war, you're trying to build a case for what you're [4:05] doing. [4:07] You're trying to bring along the American public. [4:09] And this is happening... [4:10] You know, the impeachment is in the news, but the real news, I think, this week is what [4:14] the people who are serving the conditions that they're serving under. [4:18] Right. [4:19] You know, on these ships that they don't have food, there's mold on these ships, they're [4:23] learning that they're not sure when they're going to come back. [4:26] It's a larger problem than just impeachment. [4:29] But the larger sort of almost philosophical question is, are you at war when the president [4:35] says you're not at war? [4:37] I mean, you've been following this closely. [4:38] Yeah, yeah, we've been through that many times. [4:40] But look, first of all, on the impeachment, this was a deeply flawed eight articles of [4:46] impeachment written by Thomas Massey, the one Republican that the Republicans in the [4:50] House dislike more than any other. [4:53] So it was easy for them to all vote against it. [4:55] But it was eight articles, including impeaching him for violating the War Powers Act by [5:02] executing the war in Iran. [5:04] I mean, that might be a terrible thing, and that would be something you might even want [5:08] to try to impeach the president of the United States. [5:10] But he's doing it on behalf of the president. [5:11] Right. [5:12] Yes. [5:13] And the only thing, it didn't include some of the obvious things, such as all the firings [5:18] of senior military officers. [5:20] So many of them women, people of color, and, you know, fired for what? [5:25] None of that. [5:26] But next time it will. [5:27] The next one will. [5:28] So the members of the House were given a choice. [5:30] Vote up or down all these eight articles, some of which you might not like and didn't include, [5:35] you're real, you know. [5:36] Right. [5:37] And it's not just impeachment. [5:38] It's hearings that will come in the next year, which is, did you or did you not tell [5:42] the president about the number of missiles that were being burned through? [5:45] What was the actual evidence before this war was started about what Iran had? [5:48] Right. [5:49] Those are questions that are going to be uncomfortable. [5:51] And by the way, they voted... [5:52] And what are the conditions of our bases overseas right now? [5:54] And they voted to refer those articles of impeachment to the committee, [5:58] which will now bury it because it's a Republican-held committee. [6:00] Right. [6:01] Well, guess what? [6:02] Next time it happens... [6:03] But the clock reset in January. [6:04] Yes. [6:05] Jensen Huang, surprised that the most indispensable CEO in tech turned out to be dispensable? [6:14] Well, we'll see if he's dispensable or not. [6:16] And you look at the stock price... [6:17] Well, the board of his company believed that it had no choice. [6:21] And the stock market thinks he was indispensable. [6:23] Right. [6:24] If you look at what's happened in the number. [6:25] I mean, what it reminds us is that human beings are at the center of these companies, [6:28] and those companies are being handed extraordinary power over the future of AI, [6:33] which will affect all of our lives. [6:35] And perhaps this should be a lesson that maybe you want to have not just a single point of failure. [6:41] When it comes to AI, which will have all these ramifications, [6:44] so people who have asked either to slow AI down or have some sort of extra process for managing the gallop, [6:53] that this might remind them that single people are fallible. [6:56] This has become a mess for the White House, not only for the Commerce Secretary, but... [7:00] For the president of the United States. [7:01] I mean, you have to... [7:03] The way it's been described to me, the president's trip to China, [7:06] where he leaves Washington on Air Force One, [7:10] and realizes that Jensen Huang is not on the manifest for his trip to China. [7:16] And he gets briefed by, we understand, Secretary of State Marco Rubio, [7:20] because there are suspicions that he may be sleeping with a Chinese spy. [7:25] Right. [7:26] And the president wants him on this trip. [7:28] So he calls Jensen Huang from Air Force One and says, [7:32] can you meet us in Alaska where we're going to be refueling Air Force One? [7:36] And it's... I mean, I'm told it was very close whether or not he could scramble... [7:40] By the way, he's the head of one of the most important companies in the world, [7:43] and he drops everything to fire up his... [7:46] Maybe Trump just wanted to keep an eye on him, [7:48] based on his extracurriculars. [7:50] I mean, the president's at the middle of the Senate. [7:52] Of course, the real pressure right now, the first pressure point, [7:55] is going to be the Commerce Secretary. [7:57] Right. [7:58] Quickly, Chuck Schumer, Hakeem Jeffries, big week coming up for them. [8:04] Quickly, they have... [8:09] Are there any real foreseeable threats to their rise [8:13] to leadership in their respective houses? [8:16] Maybe, Jonathan. [8:17] Senator Chris Van Hollen of Maryland is going to try and challenge Chuck Schumer. [8:21] I don't know how far that will go. [8:23] Yeah, yeah. [8:24] Their biggest challenge is being leaders of a big, big, big, complicated coalition now. [8:28] Right. [8:29] That's what happens when you win. [8:30] Right. [8:31] People... I mean, this is natural, but it's a tough leadership challenge. [8:33] And a progressive wing that is coming in and feeling themselves. [8:35] I mean, they really... [8:37] But... [8:38] Even if they don't challenge Hakeem Jeffries, [8:40] they will make sure that they are going to be heard. [8:42] And that's part of the challenge. [8:43] The interesting thing about that, going to what John has said, [8:45] is that the Democratic caucus is so big [8:48] that the power of that progressive wing [8:52] is actually a little bit diluted, or am I... [8:54] No, you're exactly right. [8:55] This isn't like the Freedom Caucus [8:57] that would constantly give Kevin McCarthy or Mike Johnson problems [9:01] because the margin was so narrow [9:03] that a couple of guys in the Freedom Caucus [9:05] could derail a piece of legislation. [9:07] There aren't enough progressives to derail a piece of legislation. [9:10] Chuck Schumer in trouble? [9:11] I don't think he is. [9:13] But, look, Van Hollen is mounting a really serious [9:16] and, I think, quite personal campaign against Chuck Schumer. [9:20] Personal because of... [9:21] Challenging his integrity, essentially, [9:24] for, you know, where his sources of money come from, [9:28] his position on Israel, his association with AIPAC. [9:32] I mean, it's a pretty brutal campaign. [9:35] This isn't a nice, hey, we just have some disagreements on policy. [9:38] This is a tough challenge. I think it will fail. [9:41] Hakeem Jeffries' smoother... [9:43] Smoother sailing, we think? [9:44] And also, he has history behind him. [9:46] I mean, there's a certain amount of enthusiasm [9:49] on top of his leadership style [9:52] because he would be the first African American... [9:54] Yeah. [9:55] There's no opposition within the House Democratic caucus. [9:58] Right. [9:59] But there is, in the base, that think that he is not tough enough. [10:02] There is this amazing quality to the rush of news these days [10:07] where we don't even pause as much as we should to say, [10:11] oh, my goodness, the House of Representatives [10:13] is going to have a black speaker of the House. [10:16] Yeah. [10:17] Another thing worth noting [10:19] is that a big winner of this weird week [10:23] is Scott Colombe, [10:26] Mississippi Democrat, [10:28] first black representative, [10:30] first black senator from Mississippi in 150 years. [10:33] You're an expert on this subject, John. [10:35] Yeah. [10:36] I know. [10:37] He was giving me his... [10:38] Yeah, he was giving me the history before. [10:39] Fascinating guy. [10:40] But, Michelle, talk about that. [10:46] And actually, it's an interesting way [10:48] to talk about Gwen, in a way, [10:51] because Gwen, one of her many... [10:53] One of her many subspecialties [10:55] was tracking and reporting on the rise [10:59] of a new generation of African American politicians. [11:05] She would be absolutely fascinated by the idea [11:08] that Mississippi, of all places, [11:10] sending a black Democrat to the Senate. [11:13] Did you all miss her this week? [11:14] Yeah. [11:15] What are you thinking about her this week? [11:16] That, you know, on Tuesday night... [11:17] I was going to say this week or... [11:19] I miss her all the time. [11:20] Whenever you think of her, you kind of, yeah. [11:22] The text that would have been flying, the conversations, [11:24] she would have loved this. [11:25] And you're right. [11:26] She would have spotted... [11:27] She was a tremendous spotter of early talent. [11:29] Yeah. [11:30] She was always looking down the road at, you know, [11:33] who was... [11:34] Her book was all about that. [11:35] Just one word before we talk about Gwen and that, though, [11:37] with Scott Colom. [11:38] Yeah. [11:39] He said something interesting about the leadership in... [11:42] The leadership race here in Washington. [11:44] Both Schumer and Hakeem come from the same borough. [11:47] Right, right, right. [11:48] You know? [11:49] I mean, so there... [11:50] And as a southerner, he's saying, you know, [11:51] maybe we need to think about having that kind of... [11:52] Can we at least get somebody from Staten Island? [11:54] Can we talk about diversity of that kind also? [11:57] I'm not sure I like this subtle prejudice [11:59] against the five boroughs. [12:01] Well, we're talking a single borough. [12:03] But the idea that he did this... [12:05] Now, yes, he was running against a weak candidate, [12:08] and he was running in an unusual year [12:10] where people were concerned about affordability [12:13] and corruption and the chaos that we've been talking about. [12:16] But he also just ran a really tight campaign. [12:19] And he went and campaigned in places [12:21] that other people have not campaigned in. [12:24] He went to every corner of that state. [12:26] His wife was in a food truck, [12:28] and she was traveling all over the state. [12:30] His father is a Republican, [12:32] and so he had a leg up in going to some of the places [12:34] that Democrats have ignored. [12:36] He himself is a gun owner, [12:38] believes in gun rights to a certain extent. [12:40] He's a home prosecutor. [12:41] Prosecutor, yeah. [12:42] And so I think it is a message [12:44] about the limits of our imagination as journalists, [12:46] but for the party, you know, [12:48] to think about where these possibilities exist. [12:50] Because the party didn't see this happening. [12:53] Right. [12:54] There were very few people [12:55] who thought that he had a path to victory. [12:57] You know, that's... [12:58] And I want to pivot, [12:59] but the amazing thing is Texas was surprising. [13:04] Kansas is really surprising. [13:06] Mississippi is another level, [13:09] and that just shows how... [13:11] What a dramatic race this was. [13:14] You can imagine, Gwen, asking, [13:16] was the Supreme Court right [13:17] when they said the Voting Rights Act didn't... [13:19] that wasn't necessary anymore [13:20] because the South had changed. [13:22] Right. [13:23] And, you know, Colm's election maybe showed that. [13:24] I think the answer from perhaps even Gwen would be, [13:27] you can have progress [13:28] without necessarily getting rid of [13:30] or thinking that what is gone [13:33] are all the efforts to try to stop progress. [13:36] Right. [13:37] To see the Obama presidency. [13:38] Well, exactly. [13:39] Hiram Revels, just to do one other, [13:41] the very first black senator from Mississippi. [13:43] Blanche Kelso, Bruce's predecessor. [13:45] Yes. [13:46] When he came to Washington, [13:47] his opponent said... [13:49] When he came to Washington, [13:50] his opponent said, [13:51] you're not a citizen. [13:52] You shouldn't be a senator. [13:53] Right. [13:54] Draw that line right [13:55] to the current sitting president [13:56] of the United States [13:57] who attacked Barack Obama [13:58] for not being a citizen. [13:59] We're not that far from that history. [14:00] And many of the people who voted... [14:02] I did bring a $10 note [14:03] that's signed by Blanche Kelso. [14:04] You are... [14:05] And he's buried here in Washington, D.C. [14:07] For some reason, [14:08] I feel like we're on a reconstruction quiz bowl. [14:12] Yeah. [14:13] When... [14:14] When didn't allow show and tell? [14:15] Yeah, no, no. [14:16] There was no show and tell. [14:17] We're gonna... [14:18] I would have... [14:19] I would have seized control of this table. [14:20] Can I... [14:21] It was provident that it happened [14:23] on Veterans Day [14:24] because the veterans played such a role [14:26] in pushing this country forward [14:27] in the civil rights movement, [14:28] Medgar Evers included. [14:29] Right. [14:30] And we should just note [14:31] that this is not ancient history. [14:33] Right. [14:34] That some of the people [14:35] who voted for Scott Colom [14:36] remembered having to pass a poll test. [14:38] Right. [14:39] Remembered what it was like, [14:40] you know, [14:41] when that hill was so much deeper. [14:43] Let us bring our viewers to Gwen. [14:46] I just want you to watch this brief compilation [14:49] of Gwen in many different settings. [14:54] I've been overwhelmed [14:55] by the good wishes sent my way [14:57] as I move to the head of our little table [14:59] here at Washington Week. [15:00] Welcome to the first [15:01] and the only 2008 vice presidential debate. [15:04] Good evening. [15:05] And welcome to Elkhart, Indiana, [15:07] as we sit down with President Obama. [15:09] I'm here in St. Petersburg, Florida. [15:12] We are here in post-debate Milwaukee. [15:14] Hello and welcome to Philadelphia. [15:16] Join us every Friday night. [15:18] We'll always have a lot to say [15:20] and we'll always want to hear [15:21] what you have to say as well. [15:23] One thing we didn't have there, Michelle, [15:26] was Gwen with a broken ankle. [15:27] Yes. [15:28] Still doing national debates. [15:29] Yes, yes. [15:30] But give us the framing here. [15:32] I mean, you were very, very close to Gwen. [15:34] What did she bring to national journalism [15:36] that we didn't really have before her rise? [15:40] Well, it's easy to say that, you know, [15:42] she was an African-American woman, [15:43] so she brought a level of diversity [15:45] into every room that she entered, [15:46] but she was our standard bearer. [15:48] And she had this... she was a compass. [15:51] She was a walking exclamation point [15:53] and a walking compass. [15:54] She was the person who would call you, [15:56] and I think all of us have received those calls, [15:59] step away from the keyboard. [16:01] She was the person who pushed you [16:03] to find your best self as journalists. [16:06] And she cared about journalism. [16:07] She cared about the craft of journalism. [16:09] She called it a craft. [16:11] And she was a defender of journalism. [16:13] And she was also a cultivator. [16:16] One of the things that I always appreciated [16:17] is that she was always working with young people. [16:19] Yeah. [16:20] She made time. [16:21] There are a number of people [16:22] who see themselves as mentees and accolades. [16:25] And if you traveled with her, as I often did, [16:28] people would not approach her as a celebrity. [16:30] They would approach her as a friend. [16:32] Right. [16:34] And so for people who watch this show every night, [16:36] for people who saw her on PBS, [16:38] or people who saw her on campaigns and in debates, [16:40] she had something magical about her [16:43] that she connected with people. [16:45] She was tough, but she was not a scold. [16:47] Right. [16:48] She was a standard bearer, [16:50] but she was not like Tracy Flick. [16:52] She wasn't, like, wagging a finger at anyone. [16:54] She was beckoning you to find your best self. [16:56] I want you to watch with me [16:59] a moment from Gwen's funeral. [17:02] This is John Dickerson giving a eulogy at the funeral. [17:07] I'm not going to say it in church, [17:11] but there's a very specific word [17:13] for what Gwen could detect. [17:15] It is our greatest local crop in Washington. [17:28] John, talk about that quality [17:32] of Gwen just not brooking any nonsense. [17:35] Including from those of us at the table. [17:38] I mean, when you have those... [17:39] Or especially. [17:40] Or especially. [17:41] Yeah. [17:42] Well, I mean, what I remember, [17:43] it happened many, many different times [17:44] on the campaign trail [17:45] or at some administration gaggle [17:48] with some official. [17:49] You know, there's a little bit of footsie [17:50] that happens at the beginning of that, [17:52] some joking around or whatever, [17:53] and Gwen had very little patience for that. [17:55] You were there to do business, [17:57] and often she would ask a question [18:00] that not only punctured that little moment [18:03] and got to the business of why we were there, [18:04] but sort of reframed and made more serious [18:07] that exchange with the administration official. [18:09] Right. [18:10] I want you guys to watch one other moment, [18:13] a very famous moment from Gwen's life. [18:16] This is in 2004, [18:18] when she's doing a vice presidential debate, [18:21] and it's Dick Cheney and John Edwards, [18:24] and she asks what has become [18:26] a very, very famous question, [18:28] the sort of question that had not been asked [18:31] in previous debates. [18:32] Watch this with me, [18:33] because I want to talk about this. [18:35] I want to talk to you about AIDS, [18:36] and not about AIDS in China or Africa, [18:38] but AIDS right here in this country, [18:40] where black women between the ages of 25 and 44 [18:43] are 13 times more likely to die of the disease [18:46] than their counterparts. [18:47] What should the government's role be [18:49] in helping to end the growth of this epidemic? [18:53] Let me turn this on its head, [18:55] because when we talk about race in this country, [18:58] we always talk about African Americans, [19:01] people of color. [19:02] I want to talk to you about white people. [19:03] White people? [19:04] I know. [19:05] That was a moment in 2016 [19:08] when Gwen I think was winking at all of us [19:10] and saying, you know what, [19:11] I'm going to make Bernie Sanders [19:13] a little bit uncomfortable for a minute. [19:14] Yeah, yeah. [19:15] And he tried to diffuse it with humor, [19:17] and she, like, plowed right ahead. [19:19] Yeah, yeah, yeah. [19:20] No, no, no. [19:21] Talk about that moment. [19:22] That was an interesting example. [19:24] This is a question for both of you. [19:25] Interesting example of diversity in the truest, [19:29] most substantive sense. [19:31] It's like bringing people with different backgrounds, [19:33] different experiences. [19:34] They're going to have different kinds of questions. [19:36] I love that you included both of them, [19:38] because in the first... [19:40] You know that Dick Cheney and John Edwards [19:41] were briefed to the high heavens, [19:43] and they were not ready for that question. [19:44] Right. [19:45] There was no way that they were ready for that question. [19:47] And so she was bringing... [19:49] She was bringing people along with her. [19:50] She was bringing black women into that debate along with her [19:53] and saying, you deserve to be a part of this conversation. [19:56] And the other hand, she was also saying, [19:59] you know, when we talk about race, [20:01] white Americans too often get to be spectators. [20:03] And so if we're actually going to talk about race, [20:05] let's have a full conversation. [20:06] Let's make sure... [20:07] And neither Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders [20:09] are probably prepared for that question either. [20:11] Gwen had a worldview, [20:12] and that worldview was not swayed or affected [20:15] by the shiny thing of the moment [20:17] or the hot take of the moment. [20:18] And that is what we all admired, [20:21] is that set of standards. [20:22] Yeah. [20:23] Talk about standards, John. [20:24] I mean, look, she would ask the relevant question, [20:27] the pointed question, [20:29] and persistently insist on getting an answer. [20:34] But she did it in a way that wasn't, like, [20:36] unnecessarily adversarial. [20:37] I mean, you still really liked Gwen Ifill, [20:40] even when she was asking you, you know... [20:43] Well, the smile was incredibly famous. [20:45] Yes. [20:46] And incandescent. [20:47] Yes. [20:48] But there was no nonsense. [20:49] No nonsense at all. [20:50] What lesson do you, when you look at her career [20:53] and the way she led herself in public, [20:56] what lesson do you, as someone in the business, [20:59] take from the way she did think? [21:00] You know, first of all, [21:01] I first got to know her in 1999, 1998, 1999, [21:06] when I was covering the impeachment of Bill Clinton, [21:09] and so was she for the Today Show. [21:11] And I had to be the... [21:13] I was there. [21:14] I spent my life up on Capitol Hill during those months, [21:16] and so did Gwen. [21:17] I never saw anybody more hardworking. [21:19] I often had the second car in the little parking area [21:24] on East Capitol Street, [21:25] where journalists could park back then. [21:27] The first car was Gwen's. [21:28] Or I would have the first, she would have the second. [21:30] We were always the first to arrive. [21:32] And I got to... [21:33] And we were covering this historic event. [21:35] And I just... [21:36] Those moments in the morning, [21:37] getting her kind of like cutting through the... [21:41] Yes. [21:42] The BS. [21:43] Yes, this is a big historic moment. [21:45] And it's also like, what are we really doing here? [21:47] You know, the thing I think about is the word anchor. [21:49] Mm-hmm. [21:50] We use that word all the time, [21:51] but we forget what it really means. [21:52] It keeps you on track. [21:53] Yeah. [21:54] It's that thing that actually keeps you on track. [21:56] And, you know, a lot of anchors don't necessarily do that. [21:59] We're glad that you do, but... [22:00] Well, I think Gwen would think I tell too many jokes [22:03] on this show, but... [22:04] She would, actually. [22:05] She would. [22:06] No, I hear her. [22:07] Believe me, I hear her. [22:08] As quick a laugh as Gwen had, [22:10] and that gorgeous smile, [22:11] when you... [22:12] If one cracked a joke at the table, [22:14] she would not smile. [22:15] Oh, I remember. [22:16] Because she didn't believe that that was the role, [22:18] or that her viewers... [22:20] You know, that was not... [22:22] It was very... [22:23] Oh, no, no, no, no. [22:24] I would make twice the number of jokes [22:26] if I didn't have Gwen in my head right now. [22:28] The first person in my life, [22:31] it's a grace to work with somebody [22:33] who makes you want to be so much better than you can. [22:36] Yeah. [22:37] Who lifts your game. [22:38] And she was the first I experienced that. [22:39] Speaking of jokes, [22:41] Gwen was also an international icon. [22:44] She was a celebrity. [22:45] She managed it well. [22:46] But I want you to watch these couple of moments. [22:48] The first is from Queen Latifah, [22:50] and the second is from Will Ferrell [22:52] when he's getting the Mark Twain Prize [22:53] a number of years ago. [22:55] Good evening. [22:58] I'm Gwen Ifill. [22:59] University in St. Louis, Missouri, [23:06] to the first and only 2008 vice presidential debate. [23:09] I mean, tonight, if I... [23:11] After the show, if I want to go on a bender [23:13] with Gwen Ifill, [23:16] and buy a couple spear guns, [23:26] and try to scale the Washington Monument, [23:28] I'm gonna do it, okay? [23:30] I don't know that she would do all of that, [23:34] but she might have a sip of brown liquor with him. [23:36] At the end of the night. [23:38] She loved the Queen Latifah bit, [23:41] and it actually came at a moment that really, [23:43] she had broken her ankle, [23:45] and so when she did that debate, [23:47] she was hobbling on one foot, [23:50] and she was really, [23:51] she did it without any painkillers, [23:53] because she wanted to be totally present. [23:54] Sure. [23:55] So when that happened, [23:56] it was really something that was very, [23:58] very special to her. [23:59] Right. [24:00] The thing that you didn't show though, [24:01] the thing that really got to her, [24:03] is when little girls would come to the door on Halloween, [24:05] because she was big on Halloween, [24:07] she loved kids, [24:08] and they would come to the door dressed as Gwen Ifill. [24:11] And so as much as she loved Queen Latifah, [24:13] she loved that she was having this effect on the next. [24:15] That is, that's an amazing story. [24:17] Well, she was, she was singular. [24:21] We all know that, [24:22] and I think I speak for this panel when I say that [24:25] we all miss her very much. [24:27] I'm sure you at home also miss her very much. [24:30] We are going to have to leave it there. [24:32] I'm glad that we had the time to talk about Gwen Ifill [24:35] and her legacy. [24:36] She won't be forgotten. [24:38] We loved her here. [24:40] We loved her everywhere. [24:41] And we all miss her very, very much. [24:43] I want to thank our guests for joining me for this very, [24:46] very moving conversation. [24:48] I want to thank you at home for watching us. [24:50] I'm Jeffrey Goldberg, borrowing Gwen Ifill's seat. [24:53] Good night from Washington. [24:56] Corporate funding for Washington Week with the Atlantic is provided by... [25:02] In 1995, two friends set out to make wireless coverage accessible to all, [25:07] with no long-term contracts, nationwide coverage, [25:11] and 100% U.S.-based customer support. [25:14] Consumer Cellular, Freedom Calls. [25:17] Major funding has been provided by Friends of Washington Week with the Atlantic, [25:22] including William C. Paley Foundation, [25:26] George D. Hanby III in memory of Mary Jane Bunny Glick, [25:31] and of his brother Jay Hanby. [25:33] Additional funding provided by [25:35] Sandra and Carl DeLay Magnuson. [25:38] Charles Hamowy to the Charles Hamowy Fund. [25:41] Rose Herschel and Andy Shreves. [25:43] Jay and Sharon Rockefeller. [25:46] Robert and Susan Rosenbaum. [25:48] The Ewan Foundation. [25:50] Don and Janine Blom. [25:53] Steve and Marilyn Kerman. [25:55] Leonard and Norma Klorfine. [25:58] Maria and Walter B. Witcher. [26:00] Hall and Shelley White. [26:02] And these individuals. [26:05] And the following contributors. [26:08] And by contributions to your PBS station. [26:12] From viewers like you. [26:14] Thank you.