Vice Presidential Debate 2020 (FULL): Mike Pence and Kamala Harris face off in SLC — USA TODAY

[0:02] Good evening. From the University of Utah in Salt Lake City, welcome to the first and only [0:08] Vice Presidential Debate of 2020, sponsored by the Nonpartisan Commission on Presidential Debates. [0:15] I'm Susan Page of USA Today. It is my honor to moderate this debate, an important part of our [0:22] democracy. In Kingsbury Hall tonight, we have a small and socially distant audience, and we've [0:29] taken extra precautions during this pandemic. Among other things, everyone in the audience is [0:34] required to wear a face mask, and the candidates will be seated 12 feet apart. The audience is [0:41] enthusiastic about their candidates, but they've agreed to express that enthusiasm only twice, [0:47] at the end of the debate and now when I introduce the candidates. Please welcome California Senator [0:53] Kamala Harris and Vice President Mike Pence. Thank you. Senator Harris and Vice President Pence [1:24] thank you for being here. We're meeting as President Trump and the First Lady continue [1:29] to undergo treatment in Washington after testing positive for COVID-19. We send our thoughts and [1:35] prayers to them for their rapid and complete recovery and for the recovery of everyone [1:40] afflicted by the coronavirus. The two campaigns and the Commission on Presidential Debates have agreed to [1:46] the ground rules for tonight. I'm here to enforce them on behalf of the millions of Americans who are [1:53] watching. One note, no one in either campaign or at the Commission or anywhere else has been told in [2:00] advance what topics I'll raise or what questions I'll ask. This 90-minute debate will be divided into [2:07] nine segments of about 10 minutes each. I'll begin a segment by posing a question to each of you, [2:13] sometimes the same question, sometimes a different question on the same topic. You will then have two [2:18] minutes to answer without interruption by me or the other candidate. Then we'll take six minutes or so [2:25] to discuss the issue. At that point, although there will always be more to say, we'll move on to the next [2:32] topic. We want a debate that is lively, but Americans also deserve a discussion that is civil. These are [2:42] tumultuous times, but we can and will have a respectful exchange about the big issues facing our nation. [2:49] Let's begin with the ongoing pandemic that has cost our country so much. Senator Harris, [2:57] the coronavirus is not under control. Over the past week, Johns Hopkins reports that 39 states have [3:04] had more COVID cases over the past seven days than in the week before. Nine states have set new records. [3:11] Even if a vaccine is released soon, the next administration will face hard choices. What would [3:18] a Biden administration do in January and February that a Trump administration wouldn't do? Would you [3:24] impose new lockdowns for businesses and schools and hotspots? A federal mandate to wear masks? You have [3:30] two minutes to respond without interruption. Thank you, Susan. Well, the American people have witnessed [3:38] what is the greatest failure of any presidential administration in the history of our country. And here [3:45] are the facts. Two hundred and ten thousand dead people in our country in just the last several [3:51] months. Over seven million people who have contracted this disease. One in five businesses closed. We're [3:59] looking at frontline workers who have been treated like sacrificial workers. We are looking at over 30 [4:07] million people who in the last several months had to file for unemployment. And here's the thing. On January 28th, [4:18] the vice president and the president were informed about the nature of this pandemic. They were informed that [4:24] it's lethal in consequence, that it is airborne, that it will affect young people, and that it would be [4:33] contracted because it is airborne. And they knew what was happening and they didn't tell you. Can you imagine [4:57] the president said you're on one side of his ledger if you wear a mask, you're on the other side of his ledger if [5:03] you don't. And in spite of all of that today, they still don't have a plan. They still don't have a [5:11] plan. Well, Joe Biden does. And our plan is about what we need to do around a national strategy for [5:17] contact tracing, for testing, for administration of the vaccine and making sure that it will be free [5:23] for all. That is the plan that Joe Biden has and that I have, knowing that we have to get a hold of what [5:29] has been going on. And we need to save our country. And Joe Biden is the best leader to do that. And [5:35] frankly, this administration has forfeited their right to reelection based on this. [5:40] Thank you, Senator Harris. Vice President Pence, more than 210,000 Americans have died of COVID-19 [5:47] since February. The U.S. death toll as a percentage of our population is higher than that of almost every [5:53] other wealthy nation on Earth. For instance, our death rate is two and a half times that of Canada [5:59] next door. You head the administration's coronavirus task force. Why is the U.S. death toll as a percentage [6:07] of our population higher than that of almost every other wealthy country? And you have two minutes to [6:13] respond without interruption. Susan, thank you. And I want to thank the commission and the University of [6:18] Utah for hosting this event. And Senator Harris, it's a privilege to be on the stage with you. [6:25] You know, our nation has gone through a very challenging time this year. But I want the [6:32] American people to know that from the very first day, President Donald Trump has put the health [6:38] of America first. Before there were more than five cases in the United States, all people who had [6:44] returned from China, President Donald Trump did what no other American president had ever done. [6:51] And that was he suspended all travel from China, the second largest economy in the world. Now, [6:58] Senator Joe Biden opposed that decision. He said it was xenophobic and hysterical. But I can tell you, [7:06] having led the White House Coronavirus Task Force, that that decision alone by President Trump [7:11] bought us invaluable time to stand up the greatest national mobilization since World War II. And I believe [7:18] it saved hundreds of thousands of American lives. Because with that time, we were able to reinvent [7:23] testing. More than 115 million tests have been done to date. We were able to see to the delivery [7:28] of billions of supplies. So our doctors and nurses had the resources support they needed. And we began [7:35] really before the month of February was art to develop a vaccine and to develop medicines and [7:40] therapeutics have been saving lives all along the way. And under President Trump's leadership, [7:44] Operation Warp Speed, we believe we'll have literally tens of millions of doses of a vaccine [7:49] before the end of this year. The reality is, when you look at the Biden plan, it reads an awful lot, [7:55] like what President Trump and I and our task force have been doing every step of the way. [8:00] And quite frankly, when I look at their plan that talks about advancing testing, creating new PPE, [8:07] developing a vaccine, it looks a little bit like plagiarism, which is something Joe Biden knows a [8:14] little bit about. And I think the American people know that this is a president who has put the health of [8:19] America first and the American people, I believe with my heart, can be proud of the sacrifices they [8:25] have made. It's saved countless American lives. Senator Harris, would you like to respond? [8:30] Absolutely. Whatever the vice president is claiming the administration has done, [8:34] clearly it hasn't worked. When you're looking at over 210,000 dead bodies in our country, [8:41] American lives that have been lost, families that are grieving that loss. And you know, [8:48] the vice president is the head of the task force and knew on January 28th how serious this was. And [8:55] then thanks to Bob Woodward, we learned that they knew about it. And then when that was exposed, [9:03] the vice president said, when asked, well, why didn't y'all tell anybody? He said, because the [9:08] president wanted people to remain calm. Well, let's go ahead. But Susan, this is important. And I want to [9:15] add, Mr. Vice President, I'm speaking. I have to weigh in. I'm speaking. [9:18] You can have 15 more seconds and then we'll give the vice president a chance to respond. [9:22] So I want to ask the American people, how calm were you when you were panicked about where you're [9:26] going to get your next roll of toilet paper? How calm were you when your kids were sent home from [9:31] school and you didn't know when they could go back? How calm were you when your children couldn't see [9:36] your parents because you were afraid they could kill them? Let's give Vice President Pence a chance to [9:41] respond. Vice President, you have one minute to respond. You know, there's not a day gone by that I [9:45] haven't thought of every American family that's lost a loved one. And I want all of you to know [9:49] that you'll always be in our hearts and in our prayers. But when you say what the American people [9:56] have done over these last eight months hasn't worked, that's a great disservice to the sacrifices [10:03] the American people have made. The reality, if I may finish then, the reality is Dr. Fauci said, [10:11] everything that he told the president in the Oval Office, the president told the American people. [10:15] Now, President Trump, I will tell you, has boundless confidence in the American people. And he always spoke with [10:19] confidence that we'd get through this together. But when you say it hasn't worked, when Dr. Fauci [10:25] and Dr. Birx and our medical experts came to us in the second week of March, they said if the [10:30] president didn't take the unprecedented step of shutting down roughly half of the American economy, [10:36] that we could lose 2.2 million Americans. That's the reality. Thank you. They also said to us, [10:43] if we did everything right, Susan, we could still lose more than 200,000 Americans. [10:48] One life lost is too many, Susan. But the American people, I believe, deserve credit [10:54] for the sacrifices that they have made, putting the health of their family and their neighbors [10:59] first, our doctors, our nurses, our first responders. Thank you, Vice President Pence. [11:02] And I'm going to speak up on behalf of what the American people have done. [11:04] Vice President Pence, you were in the front row in a Rose Garden event 11 days ago at what seems to [11:09] have been a super spreader event for senior administration and congressional officials. [11:13] No social distancing, few masks, and now a cluster of coronavirus cases among those who were there. [11:20] How can you expect Americans to follow the administration's safety guidelines to protect [11:25] themselves from COVID when you at the White House have not been doing so? [11:31] Well, the American people have demonstrated over the last eight months that when given the facts, [11:38] they're willing to put the health of their families and their neighbors and people they don't [11:41] even know first. President Trump and I have great confidence in the American people and [11:47] and their ability to take that information and put it into practice. In the height of the epidemic, [11:54] when we were losing a heartbreaking number of 2,500 Americans a day, we surged resources to New Jersey [12:02] and New York and New Orleans and Detroit. We told the American people what needed to be done, [12:07] and the American people made the sacrifices. When the outbreak in the Sun Belt happened this summer, [12:11] again, Americans stepped forward. But the reality is the work of the President of the United States [12:17] goes on. A vacancy on the Supreme Court of the United States has come upon us and the President [12:23] introduced Judge Amy Coney Barrett. Thank you. Thank you, Vice President. [12:27] If I may say that Rose Garden event, there's been a great deal of speculation about it. My wife, [12:32] Karen, and I were there and honored to be there. Many of the people who were at that event, Susan, [12:36] actually were tested for coronavirus. And it was an outdoor event, which all of our scientists [12:42] regularly and routinely advise. The difference here is President Trump and I trust the American [12:48] people to make choices in the best interest of their health. Joe Biden and Kamala Harris [12:55] consistently talk about mandates, and not just mandates with the coronavirus, but [13:00] a government takeover of health care, the Green New Deal, all government control. We're about freedom [13:06] and respecting the freedom of the American people. Let's talk about respecting the American people. [13:10] You respect the American people when you tell them the truth. You respect the American people when [13:15] you have the courage to be a leader, speaking of those things that you may not want people to hear, [13:20] but they need to hear so they can protect themselves. But this administration stood on [13:26] information that if you had as a parent, if you had as a worker, knowing you didn't have enough money [13:31] saved up, and now you're standing in a food line because of the ineptitude of an administration that was [13:40] unwilling to speak the truth to the American people. So let's talk about caring about the American [13:46] people. The American people have had to sacrifice far too much because of the incompetence of this [13:50] administration. It is asking too much of the people. It is asking too much of the people that they would [13:57] not be equipped with the information they need to help themselves to protect their parents and their [14:03] children. Kamala Harris. Senator Harris, I mean, I'm sorry. It's fine. I'm Kamala. No, no. You're [14:07] Senator Harris to me. For life to get back to normal, Dr. Anthony Fauci and other experts say [14:14] that most of the people who can be vaccinated need to be vaccinated. But half of Americans now say they [14:19] wouldn't take a vaccine if it was released now. If the Trump administration approves a vaccine before or [14:26] after the election, should Americans take it? And would you take it? If the public health professionals, [14:33] if Dr. Fauci, if the doctors tell us that we should take it, I'll be the first in line to take it. [14:39] Absolutely. But if Donald Trump tells us that we should take it, I'm not taking it. [14:44] Vice President Pence, there have been a lot of repercussions from this pandemic. In recent days, [14:48] the president's diagnosis of COVID-19 has underscored the importance of the job that you hold [14:54] and that you are seeking. That's our second topic tonight. It's the role of the vice president. One [15:01] of you will make history on January 20th. We will be the vice president to the oldest president the [15:07] United States has ever had. Donald Trump will be 74 years old on Inauguration Day. Joe Biden will be [15:13] 78 years old. That already has raised concerns among some voters, concerns that have been sharpened by [15:20] President Trump's hospitalization in recent days. Vice President Pence, have you had a conversation [15:27] or reached an agreement with President Trump about safeguards or procedures when it comes to the issue [15:34] of presidential disability? And if not, do you think you should? You have two minutes without [15:39] interruption. Well, Susan, thank you. Although I would like to go back. I think we need to move on. [15:45] Well, thank you. But I would like to go back because the reality is that we're going to have a vaccine, [15:51] Senator in record time in unheard of time in less than a year. We have five companies in phase three [15:59] clinical trials and we're right now producing tens of millions of doses. So the fact that you continue [16:07] to undermine public confidence in a vaccine if the vaccine emerges during the Trump administration, [16:13] I think is is unconscionable. And Senator, I just ask you stop playing politics with people's lives. [16:21] The reality is that we will have a vaccine. We believe before the end of this year, [16:27] and it will have the capacity to save countless American lives. And your continuous undermining [16:35] of confidence in a vaccine is just it's just unacceptable. And let me also say, you know, [16:41] the reality is when you talk about about failure in this administration, we actually do know what [16:47] failure looks like in a pandemic. It was 2009. The swine flu arrived in the United States. Thankfully, [16:55] it was ended up not being as lethal as the coronavirus. But before the end of the year, [17:02] when Joe Biden was vice president of the United States, not seven and a half million people [17:07] contracted the swine flu, 60 million Americans contracted the swine flu. If the swine flu had been [17:15] as lethal as the coronavirus in 2009, when Joe Biden was vice president, we would have lost two [17:20] million American lives. His own chief of staff, Ron Klain, would say last year that it was pure luck [17:29] that they did, quote, everything possible wrong. And we learned from that. They left the strategic [17:36] national stockpile empty. They left an empty and hollow plan. But we still learned from it. And I think [17:43] the American people, I want to say again, can be proud of what we have done. And Senator, [17:48] please stop undermining confidence in a vaccine. Senator Harris, let me ask you the same question [17:53] that I asked Vice President Pence, which is, have you had a conversation or reached an agreement with [17:59] Vice President Biden about safeguards or procedures when it comes to the issue of presidential disability? [18:06] And if not, and if you win the election next month, do you think you should? You have two minutes [18:12] uninterrupted. So let me tell you, first of all, the day I got the call from Joe Biden, it was [18:18] actually a Zoom call, asking me to serve with him on this ticket was probably one of the most memorable [18:25] days of my life. I, you know, I thought about my mother, who came to the United States at the age of 19, [18:35] gave birth to me at the age of 25, at Kaiser Hospital in Oakland, California. And the thought [18:42] that I'd be sitting here right now, I know, would make her proud, and she must be looking down on [18:47] this. You know, Joe and I were raised in a very similar way. We were raised with values that are [18:55] about hard work, about the value and the dignity of public service, and about the importance of [19:02] fighting for the dignity of all people. And I think Joe asked me to serve with him because, [19:06] you know, I have a career that included being elected the first woman district attorney of San Francisco, [19:12] where I created models of innovation for law enforcement in terms of reform of the criminal [19:18] justice system. I was elected the first woman of color and black woman to be elected attorney general [19:25] of the state of California, where I ran the second largest Department of Justice in the United States, [19:29] second only to the United States Department of Justice. And there I took on everything from [19:34] transnational criminal organizations, to the big banks that were taking advantage of homeowners, [19:39] to for-profit colleges that were taking advantage of veterans. And then, of course, now I serve in [19:44] the United States Senate, as only the second black woman ever elected to the United States Senate. I [19:48] serve on the Senate Intelligence Committee, where I've been in regular receipt of classified information [19:54] about threats to our nation and hotspots around the world. I've traveled the world. I've met with our [19:59] soldiers in war zones. And I think Joe has asked me to serve with him because he knows that we share [20:07] we share a purpose, which is about lifting up the American people. And after the four years that we [20:13] have seen of Donald Trump unifying our country around our common values and principles. Thank you, [20:18] Senator Harris. You know, neither President Trump nor Vice President Biden has released a sort of [20:23] detailed health information that had become the modern norm until the 2016 election. And in recent [20:30] days, President Trump's doctors have given misleading answers or refused to answer basic questions about [20:35] his health. And my question to each of you in turn is, is this information voters deserve to know? [20:43] Vice President Pence, would you like to go first? Well, Susan, thank you. And let me let me say on behalf of [20:52] the president and the first lady, how moved we've all been by the outpouring of prayers and concern for [21:01] the president. And I do believe it's emblematic of the prayers and the concern that have ushered [21:06] forth for every American impacted by the coronavirus. But the care the president received at Walter Reed [21:13] Hospital, the White House doctors was exceptional. And the transparency that they practiced all along the [21:19] way will continue. The American people have a right to know about the health and well-being of their [21:25] president and will continue to do that. But I'm just extremely grateful and was more than more than a [21:33] little moved by the broad and bipartisan support. And Senator, I want to thank you and Joe Biden for [21:39] your expressions, genuine concern. And I also want to congratulate you as I did on that phone call on [21:47] the historic nature of your nomination. Thank you. I never expected to be on this stage four years ago, [21:54] so I know the feeling. But the reality is we've got an election before the American people in the [22:02] midst of this challenging year and the stakes have never been higher. Thank you. Thank you. I want to [22:07] give Senator Harris a chance to respond to the same question I asked, which is do voters have a right to [22:12] know more detailed health information about presidential candidates and especially about presidents, [22:18] especially when they're facing some kind of challenge? Absolutely. And that's why Joe Biden has been [22:24] transparent. And certainly by contrast, the president has not both in terms of health records, but also [22:31] let's look at taxes. We now know because of great investigative journalism that Donald Trump paid $750 [22:40] in taxes. When I first heard about it, I literally said, you mean $750,000? And it was like, no, [22:47] $750. We now know Donald Trump owes and is in debt for $400 million. And just so everyone is clear, [22:58] when we say in debt, it means you owe money to somebody. And it'd be really good to know who the [23:04] president of the United States, the commander in chief, owes money to because the American people [23:10] have a right to know what is influencing the president's decisions. And is he making those [23:16] decisions on the best interest of the American people of you or self interest? So Susan, I'm glad [23:22] you asked about transparency, because it has to be across the board. Joe has been incredibly transparent [23:28] over many, many years. The one thing we all know about Joe, he puts it all out there. He he is honest, [23:36] he is forthright. But Donald Trump, on the other hand, has been covering up everything. Thanks. Thank you, [23:42] Senator Harris. I want to give you a chance to respond. Vice President. Well, look, I respect the [23:46] fact that Joe Biden spent 47 years in public life. I respect your public service as well. Thank you. [23:53] The American people have a president who's a businessman. He's a job creator who's paid tens of [24:01] millions of dollars in taxes, payroll taxes, property taxes. He's created tens of thousands of American [24:08] jobs. And the president said those public reports are not accurate. And the president's also [24:14] released literally stacks of financial disclosures the American people can review just as the law [24:20] allows. But the distinction here is that Joe Biden, 47 years in public service compared to President [24:27] Donald Trump, who brought all of that experience four years ago, and turned this economy around by [24:33] cutting taxes, rolling back regulation, unleashing American energy, fighting for free and fair trade, [24:39] and all of that. Thank you, Vice President. If Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. You know, [24:43] that's a good segue into our third topic, which is about the economy. This has been another aspect [24:49] of life for Americans. It's been so affected by this coronavirus. We have a jobs crisis brewing. [24:56] On Friday, we learned that the unemployment rate had declined to 7.9 percent in September, [25:02] but the job growth had stalled. And that was before the latest round of layoffs and furloughs [25:06] in the airline industry at Disney and elsewhere. Hundreds of thousands of discouraged workers [25:11] have stopped looking for work. Nearly 11 million jobs that existed at the beginning of the year [25:16] haven't been replaced. Those hardest hit include Latinos, blacks and women. Senator Harris, the Biden [25:24] Harris campaign has proposed new programs to boost the economy and you would pay for that [25:29] new spending by raising $4 trillion in taxes on wealthy individuals and corporations. Some economists [25:36] warn that could curb entrepreneurial ventures that fuel growth and create jobs. Would raising taxes [25:44] put the recovery at risk? And you have two minutes to answer uninterrupted. Thank you. [25:50] On the issue of the economy, I think there couldn't be a more fundamental difference between Donald Trump [25:55] and Joe Biden. Joe Biden believes you measure the health and the strength of America's economy based on [26:03] the health and the strength of the American worker and the American family. On the other hand, you have [26:09] Donald Trump, who measures the strength of the economy based on how rich people are doing, which is why [26:16] he passed a tax bill benefiting the top 1 percent and the biggest corporations of America, leading to [26:23] a $2 trillion deficit that the American people are going to have to pay for. On day one, Joe Biden will repeal [26:31] that tax bill. He'll get rid of it. And what he'll do with the money is invest it in the American people [26:37] and through a plan that is about investing in infrastructure, something that Donald Trump said [26:41] he would do. I remember hearing about some infrastructure week. I don't think it ever happened. [26:45] But Joe Biden will do that. He'll invest in infrastructure. It's about upgrading our roads [26:49] and bridges, but also investing in clean energy and renewable energy. Joe is going to invest that money [26:55] in what we need to do around innovation. There was a time when our country believed in science [27:02] and invested in research and development so that we were an innovation leader on the globe. Joe Biden [27:09] will use that money to invest in education. So for example, for folks who want to go to a two-year [27:14] community college, it will be free. If you come from a family that makes less than $125,000, you'll [27:21] go to a public university for free and across the board will make sure that if you have student loan debt, [27:27] it's cut by $10,000. That's how Joe Biden thinks about the economy, which is it's about investing [27:33] in the people of our country as opposed to passing a tax bill, which had the benefit of letting American [27:39] corporations go offshore to do their business. Thank you, Senator Harris. Vice President Pence, [27:46] your administration has been predicting a rapid and robust recovery, but the latest economic report [27:52] suggests that's not happening. Should Americans be braced for an economic comeback that is going [27:57] to take not months, but a year or more? You have two minutes to answer uninterrupted. [28:02] When President Trump and I took office, America had gone through the slowest economic recovery [28:07] since the Great Depression. It's when Joe Biden was vice president, they tried to tax and spend and [28:12] regulate and bail our way back to a growing economy. President Trump cut taxes across the board. [28:18] Despite what Senator Harris says, the average American family of four had $2,000 in savings in taxes. [28:26] And with the rise in wages that occurred, most predominantly for blue collar, hardworking Americans, [28:33] the average household income for a family of four increased by $4,000 following President Trump's tax [28:39] cuts. But America, you just heard Senator Harris tell you on day one, Joe Biden's going to raise your taxes. [28:46] It's really remarkable to think. I mean, right after a time where we're going through a pandemic that [28:53] lost 22 million jobs at the height, we've already added back 11.6 million jobs because we had a [29:00] president who cut taxes, rolled back regulation, unleashed American energy, fought for free and fair [29:05] trade and secured $4 trillion from the Congress of the United States to give direct payments to families, [29:11] save 50 million jobs through the Paycheck Protection Program. We literally have spared [29:16] no expense to help the American people in the American worker through this. Joe Biden and Kamala [29:21] Harris want to raise taxes. They want to bury our economy under a $2 trillion Green New Deal, [29:28] which you were one of the original co-sponsors of in the United States Senate. They want to abolish [29:33] fossil fuels and ban fracking, which would cost hundreds of thousands of American jobs all across [29:39] the heartland. And Joe Biden wants to go back to the economic surrender to China that when we took office, [29:45] half of our international trade deficit was with China alone. And Joe Biden wants to repeal all of [29:51] the tariffs that President Trump put into effect to fight for American jobs and American workers. [29:56] Joe Biden says democracy is on the ballot. Make no mistake about it, Susan. The American economy, [30:03] the American comeback is on the ballot. With four more years of growth and opportunity, [30:08] four more years of President Donald Trump. 2021 is going to be the biggest economic year in the [30:13] history of this country. Thank you, Vice President Pence. Senator Harris? [30:17] Well, I mean, I thought we saw enough of it in last week's debate, but I think this is supposed [30:21] to be a debate based on fact and truth. And the truth and the fact is Joe Biden has been very clear. [30:26] He will not raise taxes on anybody who makes less than $400,000 a year. [30:30] He said he's going to repeal the Trump tax cuts. [30:31] Mr. Vice President, I'm speaking. [30:32] Well, wait. I'm speaking. [30:35] It'd be important if you said the truth. Joe Biden has said twice in the debate last week [30:40] that he's going to repeal the Trump tax cuts. That was tax cuts that gave the average working family [30:46] $2,000 in a tax break every single year. Senator, that is absolutely not true. [30:54] Is he only going to repeal part of the Trump tax cuts? [30:56] If you don't mind letting me finish, we can then have a conversation. Okay? [31:00] Please. Okay. Joe Biden will not raise taxes on anyone who makes less than $400,000 a year. [31:07] He has been very clear about that. Joe Biden will not end fracking. He has been very clear about [31:12] that. Joe Biden is the one who, during the Great Recession, was responsible for the Recovery Act [31:22] that brought America back. And now the Trump-Pence administration wants to take credit [31:29] when they rode the coattails of Joe Biden's success for the economy that they had at the beginning of [31:35] their term. Of course, now the economy is a complete disaster. But Joe Biden, on the one hand, did that. [31:41] On the other hand, you have Donald Trump, who has reigned over a recession that is being compared to [31:48] the Great Depression. On the one hand, you have Joe Biden, who was responsible with President Barack [31:55] Obama for the Affordable Care Act, which brought health care to over 20 million Americans and [32:01] protected people with pre-existing conditions. And what it also did is it saved those families who [32:06] otherwise were going bankrupt because of hospital bills they could not afford. On the other hand, [32:12] you have Donald Trump, who's in court right now, trying to get rid of the Affordable Care Act, [32:18] which means that you will lose protections if you have pre-existing conditions. And I just, [32:23] this is very important, Susan. Yes. And it's important. But we need to give, [32:26] we need to give Vice President- I just like to, he interrupted me, [32:28] and I'd like to just finish, please. If you have a pre-existing condition, heart disease, diabetes, [32:36] breast cancer, they're coming for you. If you love someone who has a pre-existing condition, [32:41] thank you. Thank you, Senator Harris. They're coming for you. If you are under the age of 26 on [32:45] your parents' coverage, they're coming for you. Senator Harris, thank you. You're welcome. [32:49] Let me give you a chance to respond. Well, I hope we have a chance to talk about health care, [32:52] because Obamacare was a disaster, and the American people remember it well. And President Trump and I [32:58] have a plan to improve health care and to protect pre-existing conditions for every American. But look, [33:06] Senator Harris, you're entitled to your own opinion, but you're not entitled to your own facts. [33:10] You yourself said on multiple occasions when you were running for president, [33:15] that you would ban fracking. Joe Biden looked a supporter in the eye and pointed and said, [33:22] I guarantee, I guarantee that we will abolish fossil fuels. They have a $2 trillion version of [33:29] the Green New Deal, Susan, that your newspaper USA Today said really wasn't that very different from [33:34] the original Green New Deal. More taxes, more regulation, banning fracking, abolishing fossil [33:42] fuel, crushing American energy, and economic surrender to China is a prescription for economic [33:49] decline. President Trump and I will keep America growing. The V-shaped recovery that's underway right [33:55] now will continue with four more years of President Donald Trump. Thank you very, very much, [34:00] Vice President Pence. Once again, you've provided the perfect segue to a new topic, [34:04] which is climate change. And Vice President Pence, I'd like to pose the first question to you. [34:09] This year, we've seen record-setting hurricanes in the south. Another one, [34:14] Hurricane Delta, is now threatening the Gulf. And we have seen record-setting wildfires in the west. [34:20] Do you believe, as the scientific community has concluded, that man-made climate change has made [34:27] wildfires bigger, hotter, and more deadly, and have made hurricanes wetter, slower, and more damaging? [34:34] You have two minutes uninterrupted. Thank you, Susan. Well, first, I'm very proud of our record on the [34:40] environment and on conservation. According to all of the best estimates, our air and land are cleaner [34:47] than any time ever recorded. And our water is among the cleanest in the world. And just a little while [34:53] ago, the President signed the Outdoors Act as the largest investment in our public lands and public parks [34:59] in 100 years. So President Trump has made a commitment to conservation and to the environment. [35:05] Now, with regard to climate change, the climate is changing. But the issue is, what's the cause, [35:12] and what do we do about it? President Trump has made it clear that we're going to continue to listen [35:16] to the science. Now, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris would put us back in the Paris Climate Accord. [35:23] They'd impose the Green New Deal, which would crush American energy, would increase the energy costs of [35:29] American families in their homes and literally would crush American jobs. And President Trump and I [35:36] believe that the progress that we have made in a cleaner environment has been happening precisely [35:42] because we have a strong free market economy. You know, what's remarkable is the United States has [35:49] reduced CO2 more than the countries that are still in the Paris Climate Accord. But we've done it through [35:56] innovation and we've done it through natural gas and fracking, which Senator, the American people can [36:03] go look at the record. I know Joe Biden says otherwise now as you do, but the both of you repeatedly [36:11] committed to abolishing fossil fuel and banning fracking. And so by creating the kind of American [36:17] innovation, we're actually steering toward a stronger and better environment. With regard to wildfires, [36:23] President Trump and I believe that forest management has to be front and center. And even Governor Gavin Newsom [36:29] from your state has agreed we've got to work on forest management. And with regard to hurricanes, the [36:35] National Oceanic Administration tells us that actually is as difficult as they are, there are no more hurricanes [36:42] today than there were 100 years ago. Thank you. But many of the climate alarmist use hurricanes and wild flyers to try and [36:50] sell their bill of goods of a Green New Deal. And President Trump and I are going to always [36:55] put American jobs and American workers first. Senator Harris, as the Vice President mentioned, [37:00] you co-sponsored the Green New Deal in Congress. But Vice President Biden said in last week's debate [37:05] that he does not support the Green New Deal. But if you look at the Biden-Harris campaign website, [37:11] it describes the Green New Deal as a crucial framework. What exactly would be the stance of a Biden-Harris [37:18] administration toward the Green New Deal? You have two minutes uninterrupted. [37:23] Sure. So first of all, I will repeat and the American people know that Joe Biden will not ban [37:30] fracking. That is a fact. That is a fact. I will repeat that Joe Biden has been very clear that he [37:41] thinks about growing jobs, which is why he will not increase taxes for anyone who makes less than $400,000 [37:47] a year. Joe Biden's economic plan, Moody's, which is a reputable Wall Street firm, has said will create [37:55] seven million more jobs than Donald Trump's. And part of those jobs that will be created by Joe Biden [38:03] are going to be about clean energy and renewable energy. Because you see, Joe understands that the [38:10] West Coast of our country is burning, including my home state of California. Joe sees what is happening [38:17] on the Gulf states, which are being battered by storms. Joe has seen and talked with the farmers [38:23] in Iowa, whose entire crops have been destroyed because of floods. And so Joe believes, again, [38:30] in science. I'll tell you something, Susan, I served when I first got to the Senate on the committee [38:34] that's responsible for the environment. Do you know this administration took the word science off the [38:40] website and then took the phrase climate change off the website? We have seen a pattern with this [38:47] administration, which is they don't believe in science. And Joe's plan is about saying we're [38:52] going to deal with it, but we're also going to create jobs. Donald Trump, when asked about the [38:56] wildfires in California, and the question was, you know, the science is telling us this, you know [39:01] what Donald Trump said? Science doesn't know. So let's talk about who is prepared to lead our country [39:09] over the course of the next four years on what is an existential threat to us as human beings. Joe is [39:15] about saying we're going to invest that in renewable energy. It's going to be about the creation of [39:19] millions of jobs. We will achieve net zero emissions by 2050, carbon neutral by 2035. Joe has a plan. [39:28] This has been a lot of talk from the Trump administration, and really it has been to go [39:32] backward instead of forward. We will also reenter the climate agreement with pride. Senator Harris just [39:38] said that climate change is an existential threat. Vice President Pence, do you believe that climate change [39:44] poses an existential threat? As I said, Susan, the climate is changing. We'll follow the science. [39:52] But once again, Senator Harris is denying the fact that they're going to raise taxes on every American. [40:01] Joe Biden said twice in the debate last week that on day one, he was going to repeal the Trump tax cuts. [40:08] Those tax cuts delivered $2,000 in tax relief to the average family of four across America. And with regard [40:16] to banning fracking, I just recommend that people look at the record. You yourself said repeatedly [40:20] that you would ban fracking. You were the first Senate co-sponsor of the Green New Deal. And while [40:26] Joe Biden denied the Green New Deal, Susan, thank you for pointing out the Green New Deal is on their [40:31] campaign website. And as USA Today said, it's essentially the same plan as you co-sponsored with [40:38] AOC when she submitted it in the Senate. And you just heard the Senator say that she's going to [40:43] resubmit America to the Paris Climate Accord. Look, the American people have always cherished [40:50] our environment. We'll continue to cherish it. We've made great progress reducing CO2 emissions [40:55] through American innovation and the development of natural gas through fracking. We don't need a [41:01] massive $2 trillion Green New Deal that would impose all new mandates on American businesses [41:07] and American families. Thank you. Joe Biden wants us to retrofit 4 million American business buildings. [41:14] It makes no sense. It will cost jobs. President Trump is going to put America first, [41:19] he's going to put jobs first, and we're going to take care of our environment and follow the science. [41:24] Thank you. You know, on the issue of jobs, Senator Harris, let's talk about that. [41:28] You, the Vice President earlier referred to, as part of what he thinks is an accomplishment, [41:33] the President's trade war with China. You lost that trade war. You lost it. [41:41] What ended up happening is because of a so-called trade war with China, America lost 300,000 manufacturing [41:49] jobs. Farmers have experienced bankruptcy because of it. We are in a manufacturing recession because of it. [41:59] And when we look at where this administration has been, there are estimates that by the end of the term [42:06] of this administration, they will have lost more jobs than almost any other presidential administration. [42:14] And the American people know what I'm talking about. You know, I think about 20 year olds, [42:20] you know, we have a 20 year old, 20 something year old who are coming out of high school and college [42:25] right now. And you're wondering, is there going to be a job there for me? We're looking at people who [42:31] are trying to figure out how they're going to pay rent by the end of the month. Almost half of [42:36] American renters are worried about whether they're going to be able to pay rent by the end of the [42:41] month. This is where the economy is in America right now. And it is because of the catastrophe [42:48] and the failure of leadership of this administration. Thank you, Senator Harris. [42:53] Vice President Pence, let me give you just 15 seconds to respond because then I want to move on. [42:57] Well, I'd love to respond. Look, lost the trade war with China. Joe Biden never fought it. Joe Biden has [43:05] been a cheerleader for communist China through over the last several decades. And again, Senator [43:12] Harris, you're entitled to your opinion. You're not entitled to your own facts. When Joe Biden was [43:16] vice president, we lost 200,000 manufacturing jobs. And President Obama said they were never coming [43:22] back. He said we needed a magic wand to bring them back. In our first three years after we cut taxes, [43:27] rollback regulation, unleashed American energy. This administration saw 500,000 [43:32] manufacturing jobs created. And that's exactly the kind of growth we're going to continue to see [43:37] as we bring our nation through this pandemic. Thank you, Vice President Pence. [43:40] A Green New Deal, your massive new mandate, your Paris Climate Accord. It's going to kill jobs this [43:45] time just like it killed jobs. I just need to respond very briefly. 15 seconds. Thank you. Thank you. [43:52] Joe Biden is responsible for saving America's auto industry and you voted against it. So let's set the [43:59] record straight. Thank you. I'd like to talk about China. We have as our next topic, we have no more [44:07] complicated or consequential foreign relationship than the one with China. It is a huge market for [44:14] American agricultural goods. It's a potential partner in dealing with climate change in North Korea. [44:20] And in a video tonight, President Trump again blamed it for the coronavirus saying China will pay. [44:26] Vice President Pence, how would you describe our our fundamental relationship with China? Competitors, [44:33] adversaries, enemies? You have two minutes. Thank you, Susan. Well, let me before I leave that, [44:40] let me let me speak to voting records if I can. You know, everybody knows that NAFTA cost literally [44:48] thousands of American factories to close. We saw automotive jobs go south of the border. President Trump [44:53] fought to renegotiate NAFTA. And the United States, Mexico, Canada agreement is now the law of the [44:59] land. American people deserve to know Senator Kamala Harris was one of only 10 members of the [45:05] Senate to vote against the USMCA. It was a huge win for American auto workers. It was a huge win [45:13] for American farmers, especially dairy in the upper Midwest. But Senator, you said it didn't go far [45:18] enough on climate change that that you put your your radical environmental agenda ahead of American [45:26] auto workers and ahead of American jobs. I think the American people deserve to know that is probably [45:31] why Newsweek magazine said that that Kamala Harris was the most liberal member of the United States [45:37] Senate in 2019, more liberal than Bernie Sanders, more more liberal than any of the others in the [45:44] United States Senate. So now with regard to China, the Susan, first and foremost, China is to blame for [45:53] the coronavirus. And President Trump is not happy about it. He's made that very clear made it clear again [46:00] today. China and the World Health Organization did not play straight with the American people. [46:05] They did not let our personnel into China to get information on the coronavirus until the middle [46:11] of February. Fortunately, President Trump in dealing with China from the outset of this administration, [46:17] standing up to China that had been taking advantage of America for decades in the wake of Joe Biden's [46:23] cheerleading for China. President Trump made that decision before the end of January to suspend [46:28] all travel from China. And again, the American people deserve to know Joe Biden opposed President [46:34] Trump's decision to suspend all travel from China. He said it was hysterical. He said it was [46:39] xenophobic. But President Trump has stood up to China. We're going to continue to stand strong. [46:44] Thank you, Vice President Pence. We want to improve the relationship, but we're going to level the [46:48] playing field and we're going to hold China accountable for what they did to America with the coronavirus. [46:52] Thank you. Senator Harris, let me ask you the same question that I asked the Vice President. [46:57] How would you describe our fundamental relationship with China? Are we competitors, [47:03] adversaries, enemies? You'll have two minutes uninterrupted. [47:07] Susan, the Trump administration's perspective and approach to China has resulted in the loss of [47:17] American lives, American jobs and America's standing. There is a weird obsession that President Trump has [47:28] had with getting rid of whatever accomplishment was achieved by President Obama and Vice President Biden. [47:36] For example, they created within the White House an office that basically was responsible for [47:43] monitoring pandemics. They got away. They got rid of it. Not true. There was a team of disease experts that [47:54] President Obama and Vice President Biden dispatched to China to monitor what is now predictable and what [48:02] might happen. They pulled them out. We now are looking at 210,000 Americans who have lost their lives. [48:13] Let's look at the job situation we mentioned before, the trade deal, the trade war, they wanted to call it, [48:20] with China. It resulted in the loss of over 300 manufacturing jobs and a manufacturing recession [48:28] and the American consumer paying thousands of dollars more for goods because of that failed war [48:35] that they called it. Then let's talk about standing. Pew, a reputable research firm, has done an analysis [48:43] that shows that leaders of all of our formerly allied countries have now decided that they hold [48:51] in greater esteem and respect Xi Jinping, the head of the Chinese Communist Party than they do Donald Trump, [49:00] the President of the United States, the Commander in Chief of the United States. This is where we are [49:05] today because of a failure of leadership by this administration. Senator Harris, we've seen changes in [49:14] the in the role of the United States in terms of global leadership over the past four years. And of course, [49:20] times do change. What's your definition? We've seen strains with China, of course, as the Vice President [49:27] mentioned. We've seen strains with our traditional allies in NATO and elsewhere. What is your definition of the [49:33] role of American leadership in 2020? So, you know, Joe is I love talking with Joe about a lot of these issues and you know, [49:43] Joe, he, I think he said it quite well. He says, you know, foreign policy, it might sound complicated, [49:48] but really it's relationships. They're just think about it as relationships. And so we know this in [49:53] our personal and professional relationships. You got to keep your word to your friends, got to be loyal [49:59] to your friends, people who have stood with you, got to stand with them. You got to know who your adversaries [50:04] are and keep them in check. But what we have seen with Donald Trump is that he has betrayed our friends [50:14] and embraced dictators around the world. Let's take, for example, Russia. So Russia, I serve on [50:25] the Intelligence Committee of the United States Senate. America's intelligence community told us [50:32] Russia interfered in the election of the president of the United States in 2016 and is playing in 2020. [50:38] Christopher Wray, the director of the FBI, said the same. But Donald Trump, the commander-in-chief [50:43] of the United States of America, prefers to take the word of Vladimir Putin over the word of the [50:49] American intelligence community. You look at our friends at NATO. He has walked away from agreements. [50:57] You can look at the Iran nuclear deal, which now has put us in a position where we are less safe [51:04] because they are building up what might end up being a significant nuclear arsenal. We were in [51:11] that deal, guys. We were in the Iran nuclear deal with friends, with allies around the country. And [51:16] because of Donald Trump's unilateral approach to foreign policy, coupled with his isolationism, [51:23] he pulled us out and has made America less safe. So Susan, it's about relationships. And the thing that has [51:30] always been part of the strength of our nation, in addition to our great military, has been that we [51:35] keep our word. But Donald Trump doesn't understand that because he doesn't understand what it means [51:41] to be honest. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Senator Harris. Vice President Pence, let me give [51:46] you a chance to respond. Well, thank you. Well, President Trump kept his word when we moved the [51:50] American embassy to Jerusalem, the capital of the state of Israel. When Joe Biden was vice president, [51:56] they promised to do that, and they never did. We've stood strong with our allies. But we've been [52:01] demanding. NATO is now contributing more to our common defense than ever before, thanks to President [52:07] Trump's leadership. We've strengthened our alliances across the Asia Pacific. And we've stood strong [52:15] against those who would do us harm. You know, when President Trump came into office, [52:19] ISIS had captured an area of the Middle East the size of Pennsylvania. But President Trump unleashed the [52:28] American military. And our armed forces destroyed the ISIS caliphate and took down their leader, [52:33] al-Baghdadi, without one American casualty. Al-Baghdadi was responsible for the death of [52:41] thousands. But notably, America's hearts today are with the family of Kayla Mueller, [52:47] her parents of which are here with us tonight in Salt Lake City. Today, two of the ISIS killers [52:55] responsible for Kayla Mueller's murder were brought to justice in the United States. Jihadi [53:01] John was killed on the battlefield along with the other beetle. The reality is that when Joe Biden [53:07] was vice president, we had an opportunity to save Kayla Mueller. It breaks my heart to reflect on it, [53:13] but the military came into the Oval Office, presented a plan. They said they knew where Kayla was. [53:20] Baghdadi had held her for 18 months, abused her mercilessly before they killed her. But when Joe Biden [53:27] was vice president, they hesitated for a month. And when armed forces finally went in, [53:32] it was clear she'd been moved two days earlier. And her family says with a heart that broke the [53:39] heart of every American that if President Donald Trump had been president, they believed Kayla [53:43] would be alive today. Thank you, vice president. But we destroyed the ISIS caliphate. And you talk [53:49] about reentering the Iran nuclear deal. I mean, the last administration transferred 1.8 billion dollars [53:55] to the leading state sponsor of terrorism. President Donald Trump got us out of the deal. [54:01] Thank you, vice president. And when Qasem Soleimani was traveling to Baghdad to do harm to Americans, [54:07] President Donald Trump took you out. And America is safer. Our allies are safer. And the American [54:14] people know President Donald Trump will never have to take action. Thank you, vice president. I would [54:18] like to give Senator Harris a chance to respond, but not at such great length, because of course, [54:22] there are other topics we want to talk about. But I would like equal time. Yes. Thank you. Please go [54:26] ahead. First of all, to the Mueller family, I know about your daughter's case. And I'm so sorry. I'm so [54:35] sorry. What happened to her is awful. And it should have never happened. And I know Joe feels the same way. [54:45] And I know that President Obama feels the same way. But you mentioned Soleimani. Let's let's start there. [54:55] So after the strike on Soleimani, there was a counter strike on our troops in Iraq. And they [55:07] suffered serious brain injuries. And do you know what Donald Trump dismissed them as? Headaches. And [55:13] this is about a pattern of Donald Trump's, where he has referred to our men who are serving in our [55:20] military as suckers and losers. Donald Trump, who went to Arlington Cemetery and stood above the graves. [55:31] of our fallen heroes and said, what's in it for them? Because of course, you know, [55:39] he only thinks about what's in it for him. Let's take what he said about John McCain, [55:46] a great American hero. And Donald Trump says he doesn't deserve to be called a hero because he was [55:54] a prisoner of war. Take and this is this is very important when you want to talk about who is the [56:01] current commander in chief and what they care about and what they don't care about. Public reporting [56:08] that Russia had bounties on the heads of American soldiers. And you know what a bounty is? It's [56:16] somebody puts a price on your head and they will pay it if you are killed. And Donald Trump had talked [56:23] at least six times to Vladimir Putin and never brought up the subject. Joe Biden would never do that. [56:30] Thank you. But Joe Biden would hold Russia to account for any threat to our nation's security [56:39] or to our troops who are sacrificing their lives for the sake of our democracy and our safety. [56:45] Thank you, Senator Harris. This is such an important issue, but we have other important issues as well. [56:49] And I want to I want to make sure we have a chance to talk about it. I really have to respond to that. [56:53] And look, she has 15 seconds because. Well, I got to have more than that. Look, I'm sorry, [56:58] Vice President Pence. You've had more time than she's had so far. The slanders against President [57:03] Donald Trump regarding men and women of our armed forces are absurd. I'm sorry. My son is a captain [57:10] in the United States Marine Corps. My son-in-law is deployed in the United States Navy. I can assure all [57:16] of you with sons and daughters serving in our military, President Donald Trump not only respects, [57:22] but reveres all of those who serve in our armed forces. And any suggestion otherwise is ridiculous. [57:27] Thank you, Vice President Pence. [57:29] Vice President Pence, you know, Vice President Pence, I didn't die. [57:33] Vice President Pence, I did not, excuse me, I did not create the rules for tonight. [57:38] Joe Biden, your campaigns agreed to the rules for tonight's debate with the commission on president debates. [57:44] I'm here to enforce them, which involves moving from one topic to another, giving roughly equal time to [57:50] both of you, which is what I'm trying very hard to do. So I want to go ahead and move to the next [57:54] topic, which is an important one, as the last topic was, and that is the Supreme Court. On Monday, [58:02] the Senate Judiciary Committee is scheduled to open hearings on Amy Coney Barrett's nomination to the [58:07] Supreme Court. Senator Harris, you'll be there as a member of the committee. Her confirmation would [58:12] cement the court's conservative majority and make it likely open to more abortion restrictions, [58:18] even to overturning the landmark Roe v. Wade ruling. Access to abortion would then be up to the states. [58:25] Vice President Pence, you're the former governor of Indiana. If Roe v. Wade is overturned, [58:31] what would you want Indiana to do? Would you want your home state to ban all abortions? [58:37] You have two minutes uninterrupted. Well, thank you for the question, [58:41] but I'll use a little bit of my time to respond to that very important issue before. [58:45] The American people deserve to know Qasem Soleimani, [58:48] the Iranian general, was responsible for the death of hundreds of American service members. [58:55] When the opportunity came, we saw him headed to Baghdad to kill more Americans. President Trump [59:00] didn't hesitate, and Qasem Soleimani is gone. But you deserve to know that Joe Biden [59:07] and Kamala Harris actually criticized the decision to take out Qasem Soleimani. It's really inexplicable, [59:14] but with regard to Joe Biden, it's explainable, because history records that Joe Biden actually [59:20] opposed the raid against Osama bin Laden. It's absolutely essential that we have a commander [59:26] in chief who will not hesitate to act to protect American lives and to protect American service [59:32] members. And that's what you have in President Donald Trump. Now, with regard to the Supreme Court [59:37] of the United States, let me say President Trump and I could not be more enthusiastic about the [59:42] opportunity to see Judge Amy Coney Barrett become Justice Amy Coney Barrett. She's a brilliant woman, [59:49] and she will bring a lifetime of experience and a sizable American family to the Supreme Court of [59:55] the United States. And our hope is in the hearing next week, unlike Justice Kavanaugh received with [1:00:01] treatment from you and others, we hope she gets a fair hearing. And we particularly hope that we don't [1:00:07] see the kind of attacks on her Christian faith that we saw before. I mean, the Democrat chairman of the [1:00:14] Judiciary Committee before, when Judge Barrett was being confirmed for the Court of Appeals, expressed [1:00:22] concern that the dogma of her faith lived loudly in her. Dick Durbin of Illinois said that it was a concern. [1:00:31] Senator, I know one of our judicial nominees, you actually attacked because they were a member of the [1:00:36] Catholic Knights of Columbus, just because the Knights of Columbus holds pro-life views. [1:00:41] Thank you. Thank you, Vice President Pence. Your time is up. [1:00:43] So my hope is that when the hearing takes place, that... [1:00:45] Thank you, Vice President Pence. [1:00:46] ...that Judge Amy Coney Barrett will be respected... [1:00:49] Thank you, Vice President Pence. [1:00:49] ...freed and respectfully voted and confirmed to the Supreme Court of the United States. [1:00:52] Senator Harris, you're the Senator Frum and former Attorney General of California, [1:00:57] so let me ask you a parallel question to the one I posed to the Vice President. If Roe v. Wade is overturned, [1:01:03] what would you want California to do? Would you want your home state to enact [1:01:07] no restrictions on access to abortion? And you have two minutes uninterrupted. [1:01:12] Thank you, Susan. First of all, Joe Biden and I are both people of faith, [1:01:18] and it's insulting to suggest that we would knock anyone for their faith. And in fact, Joe, if elected, [1:01:26] will be only the second practicing Catholic as president of the United States. On the issue of [1:01:34] this of this nomination, Joe and I are very clear, as are the majority of the American people, [1:01:41] we are 27 days before the decision about who will be the next president of the United States. [1:01:47] And, you know, before when this conversation has come up, you know, it's been about election year [1:01:51] or election time. We're literally in an election. Over four million people have voted. People are in [1:02:00] the process of voting right now. And so Joe has been very clear, as the American people are, [1:02:07] let the American people fill that seat in the White House, and then we'll fill that seat on the United [1:02:13] States Supreme Court. And to your point, Susan, the issues before us couldn't be more serious. [1:02:18] There's the issue of choice. And I will always fight for a woman's right to make a decision about [1:02:23] her own body. It should be her decision and not that of Donald Trump and the vice president, [1:02:28] Michael Pence. But let's also look at what else is before the court. It's the Affordable Care Act. [1:02:33] Like, literally in the midst of a public health pandemic, when over 210,000 people have died, [1:02:42] and seven million people probably have what will be in the future considered a pre-existing [1:02:48] condition because you contracted the virus. Donald Trump is in court right now trying to get rid of [1:02:54] the Affordable Care Act. And I said it before, and it bears repeating. This means that there will be [1:03:01] no more protections if they win for people with pre-existing conditions. This means that over [1:03:08] 20 million people will lose your coverage. It means that if you're under the age of 26, [1:03:14] you can't stay on your parents' coverage anymore. [1:03:16] And here's the thing. The contrast couldn't be more clear. They're trying to get rid of the [1:03:22] Affordable Care Act. Joe Biden is saying, let's expand coverage. Let's give you a choice of a [1:03:26] public option or private coverage. Let's bring down premiums. Let's lower Medicare eligibility to 60. [1:03:33] Thank you, Senator Harris. That's true leadership. [1:03:35] You know, you mentioned earlier, Vice President Pence, that the president was committed [1:03:41] to maintaining protections for people with pre-existing conditions. [1:03:46] But you do have this court case that you are supporting, your administration supporting, [1:03:50] that would strike down the Affordable Care Act. The president says, President Trump says that he's [1:03:55] going to protect people with pre-existing conditions, but he has not explained how he would do that. [1:04:01] And that was one of the toughest nuts to crack when they were passing the Affordable Care Act. So tell us [1:04:06] specifically, how would your administration protect Americans with pre-existing conditions to have [1:04:11] access to affordable insurance if the Affordable Care Act is struck down? [1:04:17] Well, thank you, Susan. But let me just say, addressing your very first question, I couldn't [1:04:23] be more proud to serve as vice president to a president who stands without apology for the [1:04:27] sanctity of human life. I'm pro-life. I don't apologize for it. And this is another one of those cases [1:04:35] where there's such a dramatic contrast. Joe Biden and Kamala Harris support taxpayer funding of [1:04:41] abortion all the way up to the moment of birth, late term abortion. They want to increase funding to [1:04:47] Planned Parenthood of America. Now, for our part, I would never presume how Judge Amy Coney Barrett would [1:04:53] rule on the Supreme Court of the United States, but we'll continue to stand strong for the right to life. [1:05:00] When you speak about the Supreme Court, though, I think the American people really deserve an answer, [1:05:04] Senator Harris. Are you and Joe Biden going to pack the court if Judge Amy Coney Barrett is confirmed? [1:05:11] I mean, there have been 29 vacancies on the Supreme Court during presidential election years from George [1:05:16] Washington to Barack Obama. Presidents have nominated in all 29 cases. But your party is actually openly [1:05:23] advocating adding seats to the Supreme Court, which has had nine seats for 150 years. If you don't get your [1:05:31] way, this is a classic case of if you can't win by the rules, you're going to change the rules. Now, you've [1:05:35] refused to answer the question. Joe Biden has refused to answer the question. So I think the American [1:05:40] people would really like to know if Judge Amy Coney Barrett is confirmed with the Supreme Court of the [1:05:45] United States. Are you and Joe Biden, if somehow you win this election, going to pack the Supreme Court to get [1:05:52] your way? I'm so glad we went through a little history lesson. Let's do that a little more. In 1864, I'd like you to answer the question. [1:06:00] Mr. Vice President, I'm speaking. I'm speaking. Okay. In 1864, one of the, I think, political heroes, [1:06:10] certainly of the president, I assume of you also Mr. Vice President, is Abraham Lincoln. Abraham Lincoln [1:06:16] was up for re-election. And it was 27 days before the election. And a seat became open on the United [1:06:25] States Supreme Court. Abraham Lincoln's party was in charge not only of the White House but the Senate. [1:06:31] But Honest Abe said it's not the right thing to do. The American people deserve to make the decision [1:06:39] about who will be the next president of the United States. And then that person can select who will [1:06:44] serve for a lifetime on the highest court of our land. And so Joe and I are very clear. The American [1:06:52] people are voting right now. And it should be their decision about who will serve on this most important [1:07:01] body for a lifetime. Thank you, Senator Harris. And the American people, Susan, are voting right [1:07:07] now. They'd like to know if you and Joe Biden are going to pack the Supreme Court if you don't get [1:07:12] your way in this nomination. Let's talk about packing. You once again gave a non-answer. Joe Biden gave a [1:07:18] non-answer. I'm trying to answer you now. The American people deserve a straight answer. And if you haven't [1:07:22] figured it out yet, the straight answer is they are going to pack the Supreme Court if they somehow win [1:07:27] this election. Men and women, I got to tell you, people across this country, if you cherish our [1:07:32] Supreme Court, if you cherish the separation of powers, you need to reject the Biden-Harris ticket. [1:07:38] Come November the 3rd, reelect President Donald Trump, and we'll stand by that separation of powers [1:07:43] in a nine-seat Supreme Court. Thank you. Yeah, let's talk about packing the court then. [1:07:47] Let's talk about the fact. Please. Yeah, I'm about to. So the Trump-Pence administration [1:07:55] has been, because I sit on the Senate Judiciary Committee, Susan, as you mentioned, [1:07:59] and I've witnessed the appointments for lifetime appointments to the federal courts, district [1:08:04] courts, courts of appeal. People who are purely ideological, people who have been reviewed by [1:08:11] legal professional organizations and found to have been not competent are substandard. And do you know [1:08:18] that of the 50 people who President Trump appointed to the Court of Appeals for lifetime appointments, [1:08:27] not one is black? This is what they've been doing. You want to talk about packing a court. Let's have [1:08:33] that discussion. All right. Thank you. Thank you, Senator. Let's go on and talk about the issue of [1:08:38] racial justice. I just want the record to reflect she never answered the question. So maybe the next [1:08:44] debate, Joe Biden will answer the question. But I think the American people know the answer. Thank you, [1:08:48] Vice President. In March, Breonna Taylor, a 26-year-old emergency room technician in Louisville, [1:08:54] was shot and killed after police officers executing a search warrant in a narcotics investigation broke [1:08:59] into her apartment. The police said they identified themselves. Taylor's boyfriend said he didn't hear [1:09:06] them do that. He used a gun registered to him to fire a shot, which wounded an officer. The officers then [1:09:12] fired more than 20 rounds into the apartment. They say they were acting in self-defense. None of them have [1:09:18] been indicted in connection with her death. Senator Harris, in the case of Breonna Taylor, [1:09:25] was justice done? You have two minutes. I don't believe so. And I've talked with [1:09:30] Breonna's mother, Tamika Palmer, and her family. And her family deserves justice. She was a beautiful [1:09:37] young woman. She had as her life goal to become a nurse, and she wanted to become an EMT to first learn [1:09:44] what's going on out on the street so she could then become a nurse and save lives. And her life was taken. [1:09:52] Unjustifiably and tragically and violently. And it just, it brings me to, you know, the eight minutes [1:10:00] and 46 seconds that America witnessed, during which an American man was tortured and killed under the [1:10:12] knee of an armed, uniformed police officer. And people around our country, of every race, of every age, [1:10:25] of every gender, perfect strangers to each other, marched shoulder to shoulder, arm in arm, fighting [1:10:34] for us to finally achieve that ideal of equal justice under law. And I was a part of those peaceful protests. [1:10:42] And I believe strongly that, first of all, we are never going to condone violence, but we always [1:10:51] must fight for the values that we hold dear, including the fight to achieve our ideals. And that's why [1:10:59] Joe Biden and I have said on this subject, look, and I'm a former career prosecutor. I know what I'm talking [1:11:05] about. Bad cops are bad for good cops. We need reform of our policing in America and our criminal [1:11:12] justice system, which is why Joe and I will immediately ban choke holes and carotid holes. [1:11:17] George Floyd would be alive today if we did that. [1:11:20] We will require a national registry for police officers who break the law. We will, on the issue [1:11:26] of criminal justice reform, get rid of private prisons and cash bail, and we will decriminalize [1:11:33] marijuana, and we will expunge the records of those who have been convicted of marijuana. This is the [1:11:40] time for leadership on a tragic, tragic issue of unarmed black people in America who have been killed. [1:11:46] Thank you, Senator Harris. Vice President Pence, let me pose the same question to you. [1:11:50] In the case of Breonna Taylor, was justice done? You have two minutes uninterrupted. [1:11:59] Well, our heart breaks for the loss of any innocent American life. And the family of Breonna [1:12:05] Taylor has our sympathies. But I trust our justice system, a grand jury that refused the evidence. [1:12:15] And it really is remarkable that as a former prosecutor, you would assume that an impaneled [1:12:20] grand jury looking at all the evidence got it wrong. But you're entitled to your opinion, [1:12:25] Senator. I think with regard to George Floyd, there's no excuse for what happened to George Floyd. [1:12:33] And justice will be served. But there's also no excuse for the rioting and looting that followed. [1:12:42] I mean, it really is astonishing. Flora Westbrook is with us here tonight in Salt Lake City. [1:12:48] Just a few weeks ago, I stood at what used to be her salon was burned to the ground by rioters and [1:12:57] looters. And Flora is still trying to put her life back together. And I must tell you this, this, [1:13:05] this presumption that you hear consistently from Joe Biden and Kamala Harris, that that America is [1:13:14] systemically racist. And that as Joe Biden said, that he believes that law enforcement has an implicit [1:13:21] bias against minorities is a great insult to the men and women who serve in law enforcement. And I want [1:13:30] everyone to know who puts on the uniform of law enforcement every day. And President Trump and [1:13:35] I stand with you. And it is remarkable that that when Senator Tim Scott tried to pass a police reform [1:13:43] bill, brought together a group of Republicans and Democrats, Senator Harris, you got up and walked [1:13:49] out of the room. And then you filibustered Senator Tim Scott's bill on the Senate floor that would have [1:13:55] provided new accountability, new repeat resources. But we don't have to choose between supporting law [1:14:00] enforcement, proving public safety and supporting our African-American neighbors and all of our [1:14:05] minorities. Under President Trump's leadership, we always stand with law enforcement and we'll do [1:14:11] what we've done from day one and improve the lives of African-Americans, record unemployment, [1:14:17] record investments in education, and we'll fight for school choice for all of our members. [1:14:21] Thank you. I'd like to respond. Senator Harris. [1:14:24] I will not sit here and be lectured by the Vice President on what it means to enforce the laws of [1:14:30] our country. I am the only one on this stage who has personally prosecuted everything from child [1:14:36] sexual assault to homicide. I'm the only one on this stage who has prosecuted the big banks [1:14:41] for taking advantage of America's homeowners. I'm the only one on this stage who prosecuted for [1:14:46] profit colleges for taking advantage of our veterans. And the reality of this is that we are talking [1:14:54] about an election in 27 days where last week the President of the United States took a debate stage in [1:15:01] front of 70 million Americans and refused to condemn white supremacists. And it wasn't like he didn't [1:15:10] have a chance. He didn't do it. And then he doubled down. And then he said, when pressed, stand back, [1:15:20] stand by. And this is a part of a pattern of Donald Trump's. He called Mexicans rapists and criminals. [1:15:34] He instituted as his first act a Muslim ban. He on the issue of Charlottesville, where people were [1:15:41] peacefully protesting the need for racial justice, where a young woman was killed. And on the other [1:15:49] side, there were neo-Nazis carrying tiki torches, shouting racial epithets, anti-Semitic slurs. And [1:15:59] Donald Trump, when asked about it, said, there were fine people on both sides. This is who we have as the [1:16:06] President of the United States. And America, you deserve better. Joe Biden will be a president [1:16:11] who brings our country together. Senator Harris, thank you. And recognizes the beauty in our diversity [1:16:17] and the fact that we all have so much more in common than what separates us. [1:16:21] Vice President Pence, let me give you a minute to respond. [1:16:24] Thank you, Susan. I appreciate that very much. You know, I think this is one of the things that [1:16:30] makes people dislike the media so much in this country, Susan, is that you selectively edit, just like [1:16:36] Senator Harris did, comments that President Trump and I and others on our side of the aisle make. [1:16:42] I mean, Senator Harris conveniently omitted, after the President made comments about people [1:16:47] on either side of the debate over monuments, he condemned the KKK, neo-Nazis and white supremacists, [1:16:54] and has done so repeatedly. You're concerned that he doesn't condemn neo-Nazis. President Trump has [1:17:02] Jewish grandchildren. His daughter and son-in-law are Jewish. This is a President who, [1:17:08] who respects and cherishes all of the American people. But you talk about having personally [1:17:13] prosecuted. I'm glad you brought up your record, Senator. Thank you. [1:17:17] That's, I really need to make this point. When you were, when you were DA in San Francisco, [1:17:23] when you left office, African Americans were 19 times more likely to be prosecuted for minor [1:17:29] drug offenses than whites and Hispanics. When you were Attorney General of California, [1:17:34] you increased the disproportionate incarceration of blacks in California. You did nothing on criminal [1:17:41] justice reform in California. You didn't lift a finger to pass the first step back on Capitol Hill. [1:17:47] I mean, the reality is your record speaks for itself. President Trump and I have fought [1:17:52] for criminal justice reform. Thank you, Vice President Pence. [1:17:55] We fought for educational choice and opportunities for African Americans, all of our members. [1:17:58] Thank you, sir. And we'll do it for four. Thank you. You know, there is no more [1:18:02] important issue than the final issue that we're going to talk about tonight. And that is the issue [1:18:06] of the election itself. But he attacked my record. I would like an opportunity to respond. [1:18:11] Let me give you 30 seconds because we because we're running out of time. I appreciate that. [1:18:16] First of all, having served as the Attorney General of the state of California, the work that I did is [1:18:24] a model of what our nation needs to do and we will be able to do under a Joe Biden presidency. Our agenda [1:18:33] includes what this administration has failed to do. It will be about not only instituting a ban on [1:18:40] chokeholds and carotid holes. Thank you. Not only. Thank you, Senator. I would like to go through. [1:18:44] These are points that you made earlier in the hour, and I want to talk about the election itself before [1:18:48] we have to. But I want to talk about the connection between what Joe and I will do and my record, [1:18:53] which includes I was the first statewide officer to institute a requirement that [1:18:59] my agents would wear body cameras and keep them on full time. We were the first to initiate a [1:19:05] requirement that there would be a training for law enforcement on implicit bias because, yes, [1:19:08] Joe Biden and I recognize that implicit bias does exist, Mr. Vice President, contrary to what you may [1:19:15] believe. We did the work of instituting reforms that were about investing in reentry. This is the work [1:19:22] that we have done and the work we will do going forward. And again, I will not be lectured by the [1:19:27] Vice President on our record of what we have done in terms of law enforcement and keeping our communities [1:19:35] safe and a commitment to reforming the criminal justice system of America. Thank you, Senator Harris. [1:19:39] And I'd like to pose the first. I'd like you to respond first to the question on our final topic, [1:19:45] the election itself. President Trump has several times refused to commit himself [1:19:50] to a peaceful transfer of power after the election. If your ticket wins and President Trump refuses to [1:19:56] accept a peaceful transfer of power, what steps would you and Vice President Biden then take? What [1:20:03] would happen next? You have two minutes. So I'll tell you, Joe and I are, I think, particularly [1:20:12] proud of the coalition that we've built around our campaign. We probably have one of the broadest [1:20:18] coalitions of folks that you've ever seen in a presidential race. Of course, we have the [1:20:22] support of Democrats, but also independents and Republicans. In fact, seven members of President [1:20:30] George W. Bush's cabinet are supporting our ticket. We have the support of Colin Powell, Cindy McCain, [1:20:39] John Kasich, over 500 generals, retired generals and former national security experts and advisors are [1:20:48] supporting our campaign. And I believe they are doing that because they know that Joe Biden has a deep, [1:20:55] deep seated commitment to fight for our democracy and to fight for the integrity of our democracy and [1:21:02] to bring integrity back to the White House. And so we believe in the American people. We believe in our [1:21:08] democracy. And here's what I'd like to say to everybody. Vote. Please vote. Vote early. Come up with a [1:21:15] plan to vote. Go to I will vote dot com. You can also go to Joe Biden dot com. We have it within our [1:21:21] power in these next 27 days to make the decision about what will be the course of our country for [1:21:29] the next four years. And it is within our power. And if we use our vote and we use our voice, we will win. [1:21:37] And we will not let anyone subvert our democracy with what Donald Trump has been doing, as he did on [1:21:43] the debate stage last week, when again in front of 70 million people, he openly attempted to suppress [1:21:52] the vote. Joe Biden, on the other hand, on that same debate stage, because clearly Donald Trump doesn't [1:21:58] think he can run on a record because it's a failed record. Joe Biden on that stage said, hey, just [1:22:04] please vote. So I'll repeat what Joe said. Please vote. Thank you, Senator. Vice President Pence, [1:22:09] President Trump has several times refused to commit himself to a peaceful transfer of power after the [1:22:14] election. If Vice President Biden is declared the winner and President Trump refuses to accept a [1:22:19] peaceful transfer of power, what would be your role and responsibility as Vice President? What would you [1:22:26] personally do? You have two minutes. Well, Susan, first and foremost, I think we're going to win this [1:22:32] election because while Joe Biden and Kamala Harris rattle off a long litany of the establishment in [1:22:39] Washington, D.C., an establishment that Joe Biden's been a part of for 47 years, President Donald Trump has [1:22:46] launched a movement of everyday Americans from every walk of life. And I have every confidence [1:22:52] that those the same Americans that delivered that historic victory in 2016, they see this president's [1:22:57] record where we rebuild our military. We revived our economy through tax cuts and rolling back [1:23:03] regulation, fighting for fair trade, unleashing American energy. We appointed conservatives to our [1:23:09] federal courts at every level. And we stood with the men and women of law enforcement every single day. [1:23:14] And I think I think that movement of Americans has only grown stronger in the last four years. [1:23:20] When you talk about accepting the outcome of the election, I must tell you, Senator, [1:23:27] your party has spent the last three and a half years trying to overturn the results of the last [1:23:31] election. It's amazing. When Joe Biden was vice president of the United States, the FBI actually [1:23:38] spied on President Trump in my campaign. I mean, there were documents released this week that the CIA [1:23:44] actually made a referral to the FBI documenting that those allegations were coming from the Hillary [1:23:51] Clinton campaign. And of course, we've all seen the avalanche with the what what you put the country [1:23:56] through for for the better part of three years until it was found that there was no obstruction, [1:24:03] no collusion case closed. And then Senator Harris, you and your colleagues in the in the Congress, [1:24:10] trying to impeach the President of the United States over a phone call. And now Hillary Clinton [1:24:16] has actually said to Joe Biden that under in her words under no circumstances should he concede the [1:24:20] election. So let me just say, I think we're going to win this election. President Trump and I are [1:24:25] fighting every day in courthouses to prevent Joe Biden and Kamala Harris from changing the rules and [1:24:30] creating this universal mail in voting that will create a massive opportunity for voter fraud. [1:24:35] And we have a free and fair election. We know we're going to have confidence in it. [1:24:39] And I believe in all my heart that President Donald Trump is going to be reelected for four more years. [1:24:43] You know, I've I've asked I've written all the questions that I've asked tonight. But for the [1:24:47] final question of the debate, I'd like to write a read a question that someone else wrote. The Utah [1:24:54] Debate Commission asked students in the state to write essays about what they would like to ask you. [1:25:01] And I want to close tonight's debate with the question posed by Brecklyn Brown. She's an eighth [1:25:06] grader at Springville Junior High in Springville, Utah. And here's what she wrote, quote, [1:25:12] When I watch the news, all I see is arguing between Democrats and Republicans. When I watch the news, [1:25:19] all I see is citizen fighting against citizen. When I watch the news, all I see are two candidates [1:25:26] from opposing parties trying to tear each other down. If our leaders can't get along, [1:25:31] how are the citizens supposed to get along? And then she added, [1:25:35] your examples could make all the difference to bring us together, end quote. So to each of you, [1:25:42] in turn, I'd like you to take one minute and respond to Brecklyn. Vice President Pence, [1:25:47] you have one minute, Brecklyn, it's a wonderful question. And let me just commend you for taking [1:25:54] an interest in public life. I started following the news when I was very young. And in America, [1:26:02] we believe in a free and open exchange of debate. And we celebrate that. And it's how we've created [1:26:10] literally the freest and most prosperous nation in the history of the world. I would tell you that [1:26:19] don't assume that what you're seeing on your local news networks is synonymous with the American people. [1:26:28] You know, I look at the relationship between Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, the late justice who we just lost [1:26:33] from the Supreme Court and the late Justice Antonin Scalia. They were on polar opposites on the Supreme [1:26:41] Court of the United States, one very liberal, one very conservative. But what's been learned since [1:26:46] her passing was the two of them and their families were the very closest of friends. I mean, here in [1:26:52] America, we can disagree. We can debate vigorously as Senator Harris and I have on this stage tonight. [1:26:59] But when the debate is over, we come together as Americans. And that's what people do in big cities [1:27:04] and small towns all across this country. So I just want to encourage you, Brecklin, I want to tell you [1:27:09] that we're going to work every day to have government as good as our people, the American people each and [1:27:15] every day. Love a good debate. We love a good argument. But we always come together and are always there [1:27:22] for one another. Thank you. In times of need. And we've especially learned that through the difficulties of [1:27:28] this year. Senator Harris, what would you say to Brecklin? First of all, I love hearing from our [1:27:36] young leaders. And when I hear her words, when I hear your words, Brecklin, I know our future is [1:27:43] bright because it is that perspective on who we are and who we should be. That is a sign of leadership [1:27:50] and is something we should all aspire to be. And that, you know, that brings me to Joe, Joe Biden. [1:27:55] And one of the reasons that Joe decided to run for president is after Charlottesville, [1:28:02] which we talked about earlier. It so troubled him and upset him like it did all of us, [1:28:07] that there was that kind of hate and division. What propelled Joe to run for president was to see [1:28:15] that over the course of the last four years, what Brecklin described has been happening. Joe has a [1:28:20] longstanding reputation of working across the aisle and working in a bipartisan way. And that's what he's [1:28:27] going to do as president. Joe Biden has a history of lifting people up and fighting for their dignity. [1:28:36] I mean, you have to know Joe's story to know that Joe has known pain, he has known suffering, [1:28:41] and he has known love. And so, Brecklin, when you think about the future, I do believe the future is [1:28:49] bright. And it will be because of your leadership. And it will be because we fight for each person's voice [1:28:58] through their vote. And we get engaged in this election because you have the ability through [1:29:03] your work and through eventually your vote. Thank you to determine the future of our country [1:29:10] and what its leadership looks like. Thank you, Senator Harris. Thank you, [1:29:14] Vice President Pence. Thank you so much for being with us tonight. We want to thank also the University [1:29:20] of Utah for its hospitality. And most of all, our thanks to all the Americans who watched this debate [1:29:26] tonight. Again, our best wishes for a quick recovery to President Trump, the First Lady and everyone [1:29:33] who is battling COVID-19. The second presidential debate is next week on October 15th, [1:29:39] a town hall style debate in Miami. We hope you'll join us then. Good evening.