UFO Hearing LIVE: Trump-Era Congressional Hearing Delivers Mind-Blowing Disclosures!

[0:00] share a couple of things that I've learned along the way on this long journey, and I submitted most [0:04] of that in written form because I estimate that my statement here today would take about four and a [0:09] half hours, so I'm going to try to jump over and touch on the more important salient points. [0:14] I submitted the detailed written statement for the record, and we'll go into a lot of that here, [0:19] but you know, the public has been told over and over since the late 40s there's nothing to worry [0:25] about here. These mysterious craft seen by millions of people in the skies, in the oceans, [0:31] over the land are not real. They're not a threat. The witnesses are wrong. They're crackpots. [0:37] Don't believe it. That changed for me. What got me hooked is the paper trail, [0:42] documents that were squeezed out of the U.S. government after the FOIA, Freedom of Information [0:47] Act, became the law of the land, and those documents paint a much different picture than [0:52] what the public, the press, and Congress have been told over many years. [0:55] The documents from military and intelligence personnel behind closed doors admit that, quote, [1:02] these things are real. They're not fictitious. They can fly in formation. They're evasive, [1:07] and they outperform any aircraft known to exist, including ours. The public, of course, as I said, [1:12] has been told something much different. You know, back in 1989, I reported about a guy named Bob [1:17] Lazar who claimed that he worked at a facility dubbed S-4 out in the Nevada desert, very near [1:22] to Area 51. He said he was part of a, you know, a group of people who were working there, and he [1:25] said, you know, he was part of a reverse engineering program. He said there are alien craft that [1:28] would be taken apart to figure out how they operated out there, and that was a pretty tall [1:33] order. I had clearly taken a dive into the deep end of the pool there, but in the years since then, [1:38] I've interviewed dozens of other people, and I've detailed what their testimony has been in the [1:42] written statement. They include Senator Harry Reid, Senator Howard Cannon, also of Nevada, a guy [1:48] named Al O'Donnell, who was the first general manager of EG&G in Nevada, which managed the [1:53] Nevada test site, which blew up hundreds of people. He said, you know, I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. [1:55] I'm going to do that. I'm going to do that. I'm going to do that. I'm going to do that. I'm going to do that. [1:56] I'm going to do that. I'm going to do that. I'm going to do that. I'm going to do that. I'm going to do that. [1:56] There's a guy named Dr. James Likatsky, who was a career scientist with the Defense Intelligence [2:01] Agency, who was the guy who initiated a program called OSAP, Advanced Aerospace Weapons Systems [2:08] Application Program, which is, as far as we know, the largest acknowledged UFO program ever funded [2:14] by the U.S. government, which put together an amazing pile of information that members of this [2:20] committee and the world, most of which have never seen. The DIA still hasn't released 95% of the [2:25] information that was prepared by that program at a cost of millions and millions of dollars. [2:33] The one name I do want to bring up in this session, though, is Robert Bigelow. So looking into the [2:39] idea of crash retrievals and reverse engineering, while OSAP, that program, was active, the DIA's [2:46] contractor, Robert Bigelow of Las Vegas, made a bold attempt to acquire physical proof of UFO [2:51] crashes. It's been widely reported and suspected that Lockheed [2:55] Martin is one of the contractors, the defense contractors, that has held this stuff, stored it [3:00] away in secrecy, and tried to figure out how it works. I have confirmed on the record that Robert [3:08] Bigelow and a trusted colleague from OSAP met with and negotiated with senior executives at Lockheed [3:15] Martin and hammered out a deal wherein Bigelow's company, Bass, would receive a quantity of unusual [3:21] material that had been stashed away and protected at a facility in Las Vegas. So, as a matter of fact, [3:25] the DIA has been actively investigating the case. [3:27] Robert Bigelow, the DIA's contractor, said that the [3:41] DIA's contractor, Robert Bigelow, had been secretly studying UFOs while publicly saying something [3:52] completely different. The documents and interviews that I have received from the DIA's contractor, [3:55] Robert Bigelow, have shown that the USSR launched what is almost certainly the largest UFO UAP [4:02] investigation in the world. The first phase of that was an order was sent out to the entire [4:08] USSR military empire that every unit, you see anything strange in the sky, a craft, an orb, [4:15] something unusual, you had to gather all the evidence, collect testimony from the witnesses, [4:21] look for physical evidence, and all of that information went into one program, [4:25] and that was the U.S. Army. The U.S. Army was the first military to have a military unit, [4:25] and that was the U.S. Army. The U.S. Army was the first military to have a military unit, [4:26] and if you look at the history of the U.S. Army, it's been a long time. [4:27] The U.S. Army is one of the most important, most significant and important military units [4:31] in the world. We have been dealing with these issues, and I think the U.S. Army is a great [4:33] ally of the U.S. Army in the military, and we have been working with them in the past [4:36] and in the future. [4:37] Robert Bigelow, the DIA's contractor, said that the USSR launched a recent investigation [4:40] of UFOs at the Ministry of Defense. Thousands and thousands of these reports came in. A [4:44] lot of them were first routed to the KGB, but then back to another program that came after [4:48] this collection effort called Thread 3. And Thread 3 was an analysis program. We have [4:54] Colonel Boris Sokolov told me that their goal was to basically develop technology that would be superior to anything we had, based on what they learned from UFOs. [5:04] Mr. Knapp, just in the name of time, to my understanding, did you have anything you wanted to submit for Congress to see in this committee? [5:12] I have submitted those documents. [5:14] Would you like to play any videos? [5:17] Do you have a video that you would like to play? [5:18] I don't think it's for me to play. [5:20] No, that was for Alexander. [5:22] Yeah, Alexander's video. [5:24] Okay. [5:25] Play it. He can narrate it. [5:26] Okay. [5:27] In the name of showing that video to everyone on task force, we'd like to play that video at this time. [5:32] Sure. [5:52] That shit took off earlier. [6:15] If we can get rid of the audio real quick. [6:19] Mr. Wiggins and Mr. Knapp, we'll get back to what that video is. [6:22] Okay. [6:22] We'll get back to what that video was in a moment, but we just want to make sure that it was entered into the record, as well as all the documents. [6:27] Those will be able to be publicly found for everyone in the country to view. [6:30] If we could, Mr. Knapp, we'll continue on the line of questioning, but I'm going to move on to Mr. Borland's opening statements. [6:38] Good morning, members of the task force and the committee. [6:41] I would like to express my gratitude for being invited to testify to the current task force created under the People's Chamber and the American public. [6:49] As an American citizen, veteran, and intelligence community, [6:52] professional, it is an honor and a privilege to serve under oath before you on behalf of our country. [6:58] I speak for myself and no former agency or company I have been previously affiliated with. [7:03] My name is Dylan Borland, a former 1N1 geospatial intelligence specialist for the United States Air Force in an active duty enlisted capacity from 2010 to 2013. [7:14] I've also been employed with BAE Systems and Intrepid Solutions as a senior analyst expert in analyzing video radar and advanced electro-optical systems. [7:22] I'm a federal whistleblower having testified to both the ICIG and AERO with direct firsthand knowledge of and experience with craft and technologies that are not ours and are reportedly operating without congressional oversight. [7:42] Because of my direct knowledge of the reality of certain legacy UAP programs, my professional career was deliberately obstructed, [7:50] and I have endured sustained abuse of my professional career. [7:51] I have endured sustained abuse of my professional career. [7:52] I have endured sustained abuse of my professional career. [7:52] I have endured sustained reprisals from government agencies for over a decade. [7:56] From 2011 to 2013, I was stationed at Langley Air Force Base, Virginia, conducting 24-hour operations via manned and unmanned aerial vehicles for special operations forces in the Global War on Terror. [8:08] During the summer of 2012, my team was on standby for weather, and I returned to my barracks on base, and at approximately 0130, I saw an approximately 100-foot equilateral triangle take off from near the NASA hangar on the base. [8:20] During the summer of 2013, I was on standby for weather, and at approximately 0130, I saw an approximately 100-foot equilateral triangle take off from near the NASA hangar on base. [8:22] The craft interfered with my telephone, did not have any sound, and the material it was made of appeared fluid or dynamic. [8:23] The craft interfered with my telephone, did not have any sound, and the material it was made of appeared fluid or dynamic. [8:30] I was under this triangular craft for a few minutes, and then it rapidly ascended to commercial jet level in seconds, displaying a zero kinetic disturbance, sound, or wind displacement. [8:36] I was under this triangular craft for a few minutes, and then it rapidly ascended to commercial jet level in seconds, displaying a zero kinetic disturbance, sound, or wind displacement. [8:39] I was under this triangular craft for a few minutes, and then it rapidly ascended to commercial jet level in seconds, displaying a zero kinetic disturbance, sound, or wind displacement. [8:40] Some years after that experience, I was further exposed to classified information from the UAP Legacy Crash Retrieval Program through a sensitive position I held within a special access program. [8:50] During this time, intelligence officers approached me in fear for their own careers, citing misconduct within these programs and similar retaliation that I was already enduring at this time. [9:01] These issues include medical malpractice committed by Veterans Affairs staff, denial of work I performed while enlisted in the United States Air Force, [9:08] forged and manipulated employment documents, workplace harassment, including colleagues being directed to not speak with me, [9:15] manipulation of my security clearance by certain agencies, blocking, delaying, and ultimately removing my ability to be employed within the IC. [9:25] The retaliation I faced and the retaliation against individuals I know who worked in these programs is what convinced me in March 2023 to become a whistleblower. [9:33] I came forward out of concern for people's lives and to ensure I did everything I could to let our elected representatives [9:38] and our elected representatives know that I was not a whistleblower. [9:38] to know the truth about what is really happening in the executive branch. [9:43] At the end of March 2023, I agreed to meet with ARO following the suggestion of other [9:48] federal officials believing it was what our nation required of me. [9:52] I had reservations with ARO due to assessments they were reporting publicly at the time as [9:56] a misrepresentation of the truth. [10:00] Because of these concerns, I did not share sources and methods information in order to [10:04] protect current and formal federal personnel who had firsthand exposure to technologies [10:09] of unknown origin. [10:09] I did not want anyone to face further retaliation beyond what they had already endured. [10:14] And unfortunately, a staff member ended up getting in some trouble because of that. [10:21] After David Grush testified under oath in the summer of 2023 and provided historic disclosure, [10:26] I was then asked to go to the ICIG and did so in August 2023. [10:31] It was very clear early on during my intake interview, which was very clear, that I was [10:34] video recorded under oath, that the objective was to solely assess how much I know and not [10:39] move forward with an investigation with new information I provided them. [10:44] The aftermath of that IG complaint still troubles me to this day. [10:48] Since my ICIG complaint, I've been prevented from assuming prior employment and can confirm [10:53] I'm still blacklisted from certain agencies within the intelligence community. [10:57] In addition, multiple agencies attempted phishing attacks to assess what I had divulged to the [11:01] inspector general, including being asked to disclose the information I had received. [11:03] I was then asked to go to the ICIG and did so in August 2023. [11:03] I was then asked to go to the ICIG and did so in August 2023. [11:04] I was then asked to go to the ICIG and did so in August 2023. [11:04] I was then asked to go to the ICIG and did so in August 2023. [11:04] I was then asked to go to the ICIG and did so in August 2023. [11:04] I was then asked to go to the ICIG and did so in August 2023. [11:04] And I now had to recall those details of my ICIG complaint during a CI polygraph or a position [11:08] unrelated to UFO UAP matters as recently as November 2024. [11:13] As I sit before you today, I and many other whistleblowers have no job prospects, [11:17] no foreseeable professional future in a nation every single one of us came forward to defend. [11:24] Numerous individuals have come forward in various ways to reveal the truth of the UAP reality as [11:29] patriots and defenders of our nation. Yet many feel discarded, isolated, hopeless, [11:33] separated from the country they serve. Efforts to rectify this situation for [11:38] all whistleblowers have been difficult and troubling and to my fellow [11:41] whistleblowers and officials who know this information, I offer you my apology. [11:47] Something that I have never gotten and I'm giving it to you. I swore an oath to [11:53] the Constitution of the United States, a note that demands truth and transparency [11:57] for our democratic republic to function. Each day these truths remain hidden from [12:01] our citizens. Humanity drifts further from the principles our nation was [12:05] founded to uphold. Each day victims of crimes committed by agencies and [12:10] companies maintaining the secrecy or denied justice is another day our [12:13] Constitution is shredded. In 2023, Patriots provided this committee and the [12:19] executive branch with undeniable proof of the UAP reality and I commend your [12:23] continued commitment. The future of humanity is one which we either travel [12:28] to the stars or aggressive the Stone Age with this technology. [12:31] you [12:31] My career has been to deliver critical information to decision makers. Your [12:37] role as elected by your representatives is to act on it. The time to act is now. [12:43] Thank you. [13:01] Mr. Borland, thank you for your service to our country and we appreciate you. And we're sorry about how you've been treated and we will make sure that we try to rectify that situation. [13:13] Thank you, ma'am. [13:14] Mr. Spielberger, please your opening remarks. [13:16] Chairwoman Luna, Ranking Member Crockett, and Task Force members, [13:21] thank you for the opportunity to testify here today about the importance of strengthening [13:26] whistleblower protections, especially in the context of national security. [13:31] I'm a senior policy counsel at the Project on Government Oversight, a nonpartisan independent watchdog organization that investigates and [13:39] exposes waste, corruption, abuse of power, and when the government fails to serve the public or [13:45] silences those who report wrongdoing. [13:48] Whistleblowers are the first line of defense to root out waste, fraud, abuse of power, and corruption in our government. [13:54] Congress relies on whistleblowers so that it can fully exercise its oversight and legislative authorities. [14:01] It's understandable that former presidents of both parties have often taken a hostile approach toward whistleblowers. [14:08] Their disclosures can embarrass the president and their political party or even lead to a national scandal. [14:14] But whistleblowers continue to be a key part of the policy and [14:15] continue to play a vital role during both Democratic and Republican administrations. [14:20] They help Congress and the public identify and understand what government corruption looks like. [14:26] Their disclosures fuel investigations and allow us to address wrongdoing and hold those responsible to account. [14:33] That's why, historically, there's been a strong bipartisan consensus in Congress to support and protect whistleblowers. [14:40] Doing so protects the country and ensures our government is more responsive and more responsive to the state. [14:43] Thank you. [14:44] The next slide please. [14:44] Thank you. [14:45] accountable to the people. National security whistleblowing in particular is [14:50] a tradition going back to the founding of our country and over time national [14:54] security whistleblowers and their disclosures have impacted some of the [14:58] most fundamental issues and questions about how we wish to be governed and how [15:03] our government can better serve its people. From the role the US plays around [15:07] the world to holding powerful actors accountable, government ethics and [15:11] transparency, human rights and civil liberties, executive branch authority, [15:16] First Amendment freedoms of speech and dissent, freedom of the press and the [15:20] public's interest in right to know. Despite this invaluable public service [15:26] blowing the whistle comes at great personal risk. Whistleblowers risk losing [15:30] their jobs, careers, livelihoods and reputations. They can face retaliatory [15:35] investigations, lawsuits and even serious criminal charges and they can [15:40] endure deep mental and psychological trauma. [15:41] All of that risk to speak the truth, to ensure that agencies fulfill their core [15:49] missions and that they serve the best interests of the people. Those who [15:54] retaliate against whistleblowers don't just violate their legal rights, they [15:58] inflict real harm on our government and betray the public's trust. Targeting [16:03] whistleblowers instead of the corruption they expose wastes agency resources and [16:08] further allows that corruption to continue unaddressed. [16:11] I'm going to turn it over to the next speaker. [16:11] I'm going to turn it over to my close colleague, [16:14] Occing, who's a former American director. [16:14] I want to thank everyone for taking the time to minute [16:18] out to do a recording of this episode. [16:19] I want the public know that this was a stunning [16:22] marketplace and interesting tonight. [16:23] This was an experience filled with [16:28] impact. [16:28] And today, these participants enjoyed their voices twisted and [16:36] motivated to become secret dual fee [16:36] services in the world listening to the [16:38] voices of those who have [16:39] made their best missed, face talked [16:39] stories. [16:41] whistleblowing has increasingly become more politicized with support for [16:46] whistleblowers often hinging on which party is in power and which party is [16:50] politically inconvenienced by the misconduct being exposed. But to be clear, [16:55] targeting whistleblowers individually risks undermining whistleblowing period. [17:01] POGO advises members of Congress on both sides of the aisle to focus on the [17:06] evidence, not the individual. We will always need whistleblowers to achieve [17:11] the government that best serves its people because when people of conscience, [17:15] integrity, and good character refuse to speak up out of fear, complacency, or [17:20] self-preservation and leave corruption to fester behind closed doors, that is [17:25] probably the most dangerous risk of all. If we are serious about increasing [17:30] government transparency and restoring the public's trust, we need public [17:35] servants committed to the truth. Whistleblowers need safe and effective [17:39] channels to make lawful disclosures. [17:41] We need public servants committed to the truth. Whistleblowers need safe and effective channels to make lawful disclosures. [17:41] We need public servants committed to the truth. Whistleblowers need safe and effective channels to make lawful disclosures. [17:41] They need stronger protections against retaliation, and when they do face retaliation, they need a fair shot to be made whole. [17:48] Congress has made strides to pass whistleblower legislation, and these laws need to be updated and expanded so that whistleblowers truly receive the protections they need, [17:58] retaliators are held accountable, and we can achieve the type of government the people deserve. [18:04] We strongly urge Congress to continue its historic tradition of championing the rights and protections of all whistleblowers. [18:11] We strongly urge Congress to continue its historic tradition of championing the rights and protections of all whistleblowers. [18:12] Thank you again for the opportunity to testify here this morning. [18:15] POGO is committed to working with you and the Oversight Committee to address these critical issues. [18:20] I look forward to any questions. [18:22] Thank you, sir, very much. [18:24] Additionally, without objection, the following members are waived onto the task force for the purpose of questioning witnesses at today's hearing. [18:36] Representative Perry of Pennsylvania and Representative Grothman of Wisconsin. [18:40] Representative Biggs from Arizona. [18:45] I already forgot you, but yeah, we're good. [18:47] Without objection, so ordered. [18:49] I now recognize myself for five minutes of questioning. [18:52] Also, as my friend, Mr. Moskowitz might have to go, would you like to go now? [18:59] Okay. All right. [19:02] Mr. Borland, in your testimony, you described witnessing large triangular craft while stationed at Langley Air Force Base in 2012. [19:08] Can you explain what you have been told? [19:09] Yes. [19:10] What have you observed in terms of size behavior and why you're confident it was not conventional technology? [19:15] Great question, ma'am. [19:17] So on barracks, on the base, I lived in the barracks. [19:20] There was a little smoke pit outside. [19:22] I was there on the telephone and looking across to the flight line, and I see a white light pop up and stop about 100 feet in the air. [19:31] I thought it was a weather balloon. [19:33] I've seen tests from there before, weeknight, you know, normal thing, not surprising. [19:39] I actually finished my cigarette and I began walking up towards the flight line. [19:43] There is a track, and because I was on three months of night work, I began, I would walk the track at night when we were weathered down. [19:50] And as I began walking towards the light, towards the flight line and the track, the light then flies across the base, across the flight line, and as it flies to me, a triangle manifests around the light. [20:03] I can't tell you if it was active camouflage. [20:05] I can't tell you if it appeared around the light. [20:07] But I can tell you that it was active camouflage. [20:08] I can tell you that it was a white light, and then it was a triangle. [20:12] It stopped about 100 feet in front of me and approximately 100 feet above me. [20:16] My telephone got extremely hot, completely froze, dead. [20:22] I remember how thick it was. [20:24] It was between one to two stories thick, equilateral triangle. [20:27] I could never see the top of it, and the edges were 90 degrees. [20:33] There were four lights in total. [20:36] One light on each corner. [20:38] There was a larger light in the center, two to three times the size of the corner lights. [20:42] But what was really odd was the outside, the best way to describe it is like looking at a James Webb telescope picture where you have the colors and then the black background. [20:54] So the craft itself was this black metallic flake paint, but on top of the craft was this gold, lava, plasma, some type of fluid going over and around the craft. [21:06] I'm under this light. [21:08] I've been in this for about two to three minutes. [21:10] And then the center light flashes two to three times, no sound. [21:14] Immediately shoots up to commercial jet level minimum, in my opinion. [21:19] And I immediately feel static electricity all over my body. [21:23] And then I smell the smell of after a thunderstorm or lightning storm, that really strong summer thunderstorm smell. [21:30] Gets up to flight level. [21:32] I'm trying to get my phone reset. [21:35] And I can only see the center light at this point. [21:37] If I didn't actually see it take off, I would have thought it was a star. [21:40] And then it hovers up there and it begins to slowly move due east out over the Atlantic Ocean. [21:47] I finally got my phone reset. [21:49] The entire thing was about from the time I saw the light pop up near the hangar until it took off out over the ocean was about 15 minutes. [21:56] In following up to that question, after you disclosed this information to the Intelligence Community Inspector General, you were subject to phishing attempts and job blacklisting. [22:06] How widespread do you think this is across the Intelligence Community for those who raise concerns regarding UAP programs? [22:12] It's a difficult question to answer. [22:14] I think prior to David Grush and people beginning this process of bringing people into awareness of the reality of these programs and certain things people have witnessed, probably extremely widespread. [22:28] I think today there's still an issue. [22:31] But because people are able to come before you and people are speaking out, [22:34] I think it has been a very important issue. [22:35] Thank you. [22:36] I think there's been a lot of talk about the fact that this has been somewhat less. [22:41] I would hope, though, that people would. [22:43] Because if this goes back into closed doors, this is going to get really ugly. [22:46] What type of behavior have you witnessed from former AERO Director Sean Kilpatrick as well as his staff in relation to information you provided to them? [22:55] Did they ever try to classify this information as nonhuman technology? [22:58] Good question. [23:00] The problem with this is that I know what I experienced firsthand and I know other things. [23:05] things um i think the staff at aero that i met with in march of 2023 i think they were good [23:12] people doing the job they were told to do i did not meet with kirkpatrick he was either not president [23:19] or did not want to meet me that day however they did classify information about the reality of this [23:26] subject and it was very concerning because in my aero mfr they had actually referenced a former [23:36] staff member that was the one who told me to go there and they uh probably shouldn't have done that [23:43] and real quick before my time is up and we might go to second round of questioning just so you're [23:47] all aware um how important given everything that you've seen and experienced is the uap [23:51] disclosure act of 2025 in restoring both public accountability and trust [23:56] i think very important um i would hope though that the seven-year window could be shrunk my opinion [24:03] but very important the truth needs to be known thank you very much i now recognize jared moskowitz [24:10] of florida uh thank you madam chairwoman thank you for allowing me uh to to wave on to uh the [24:18] committee i remember you know the last committee when we had a bunch of former military personnel [24:26] for the first time and i think that was a very important moment for me to be able to uh to be able [24:26] to talk to folks about this and i think that was a very important moment for me to be able to talk to [24:27] folks about this and i think that was a very important moment for me to be able to talk to [24:27] that either served on bases were pilots or were in different programs experiencing knowledge it made [24:34] me recognize that the narrative has changed right it it's politically convenient for the government [24:43] if you all weren't military folks in suits it would be much better if you pulled up in winnebago's [24:50] and were wearing hats and so the picture of this because that's important for the american people [24:56] in a house of law and order and i think that's a very important thing to be able to talk about [24:56] how you tell a story what the message looks like and who the messenger is so this is now the [25:02] the second or third committee where we have former military folks with impeccable records [25:08] with information and knowledge and it's definitely clear on a bipartisan basis that [25:13] we have to protect our whistleblowers there's no doubt and in a day in which it's really hard [25:19] to tell what's true or not from a political standpoint and so i don't really know what is [25:26] true i don't know on this subject but i do know when we're being lied to and we are definitely [25:32] being lied to there's just no doubt about that mr wiggins i want to talk to you i find [25:40] your background testimony compelling when you first saw what you were looking at what [25:47] you were looking at what were your first thoughts my first thoughts were [25:56] i think everything that i was told and taught as a kid and that growing growing adult no longer [26:03] you know was applicable if i'm able to see something that i thought defies gravity in [26:07] such a way then what else could be possible that was my first thought so did you did you think what [26:12] you were looking at was a weapons program that you were unaware of or did you think what you [26:17] were looking at was obviously some extraterrestrial piece of technology i i didn't i neither one of those [26:26] crossed my mind it was just how about now what do you think it is now i'm i'm not the expert uh i i [26:34] think it uh i want to be as skeptical as everyone else and just hope to know the information anyone [26:40] in the u.s government tell you what you were looking at to try to dissuade you from what you [26:44] thought it was no so no one was like oh you know there was some anomaly with the technology no one [26:51] from the government did that no one how do you think you were treated when you reported [26:56] this information or have talked about you know the the tic tac video is is well out there it's [27:02] well reported how were you treated i've i've had no pushback at all uh i haven't haven't had anyone [27:11] reach out to me or try to you know dissuade me in either direction uh militarily speaking so i [27:17] was treated fair and i appreciate the navy itself with uh assisting me with coming here to being [27:23] able to testify that's good so what what do you think the american people should be doing to [27:26] Never [27:36] So [27:50] network [27:56] the people what it is. [27:57] Right. [27:58] And so let's eliminate possibilities. [27:59] So they didn't come to you and say there was a technological error with what you were looking [28:03] at. [28:04] So we put that aside, right? [28:05] They didn't say it was broken. [28:06] So we look at that and we see something. [28:08] So it's either a weapons program being reverse engineered by our governments or other governments, [28:13] or it's nobody's government and it's not from here. [28:17] Those are it. [28:19] You agree with that assessment? [28:20] I agree. [28:21] One or the other. [28:22] Mr. Borland, when you first experienced what you were looking at, what did you do [28:31] next? [28:32] What was your next step after it had passed and you were done? [28:38] I actually kind of laughed at myself and said, okay, so this exists as well. [28:43] Worked in enough programs, been exposed to enough that I was like, okay, so this is a [28:46] real thing. [28:48] I went back, walked the track, talked with a couple of my friends about it. [28:52] I did talk with some of my coworkers. [28:55] One in particular, which I thought was a joke and it definitely wasn't, was like, you probably [29:00] should never say this to anybody. [29:02] And then what happened to me happened. [29:07] What about you, Mr. ... How do you pronounce your last name? [29:12] Nusatelli. [29:13] Nusatelli. [29:14] And sorry, I know I'm running out of time, Madam Chairman, Chairwoman. [29:18] So obviously your incident happened well before we could review it. [29:20] Yes. [29:21] I'm sorry. [29:22] I'm sorry. [29:23] We could record things on cell phones and things of that nature, right? [29:28] What did you do when you first experienced? [29:30] Because what you saw, you saw it happen right out of your base. [29:35] Correct. [29:36] So tell me what you did after you saw that. [29:38] What was your next move? [29:39] And I want to hear what your experience was. [29:42] My next move, I went into my house after it left. [29:46] I made sure no one had been abducted and I picked up the landline. [29:51] I called the Security Forces Command Center. [29:54] I reported it. [29:56] I requested that they give me a call back and make notifications up the chain of command. [30:01] I got a call back in about 15 minutes. [30:04] They reported that the weather station reported no balloons or aircraft, nothing on radar, [30:10] no aircraft inbound or outbound. [30:12] So I got that notification. [30:14] And then within the following day or two, me and the other witnesses wrote statements. [30:19] We prepared a report. [30:20] And then we went back. [30:21] We filed all that information. [30:23] Madam Chairman, thank you for your indulgence in my questioning. [30:26] And thank you for continuing to lead on this subject. [30:30] What do you and your friends think about it today? [30:34] You all have talked about it. [30:35] I mean, so what do you think about your experience as a collective group? [30:38] That'll be my last question, Madam Chairman. [30:41] I mean, we've been talking about this for 20 years. [30:45] We don't know what we saw. [30:47] What we saw changed our lives in the way we think about everything. [30:50] And I think that's what we're going to do. [30:51] I think we should bear the 와ife. [30:53] So thank you for the shout-out to those of us who have beenhomme. [30:56] Thank you. [30:57] Thank you. [30:59] That is a great qu influential piece of technology. [31:02] I think that's a really useful article. [31:05] But for sure, aaccent value ought to be one of theく the题 and we should be having [31:10] as the plusieurs processes for governmental mimicro pickriece and those sort of…? [31:13] selling and giving of information and not so much shining this or that and putting it [31:16] out the window- [31:17] So, Mr. комна~! [31:18] Thank you. [31:19] And I guess, I'm gonna say something else first. [31:20] Do you want to say anything else? [31:21] investigate you so it's almost like they're curious so that's the thing we primarily talk [31:26] about um you know why did it come after we knows noticed it maybe it noticed us after we noticed it [31:35] you're welcome i now recognize representative mace for five minutes [31:41] thank you madam chair and i want to thank all of our witnesses for being here today uh mr borland [31:49] i'd like to start with you and ask a few questions um were there any other witnesses when you saw the [31:54] equilateral triangle were there other witnesses that saw the same thing not to my knowledge ma'am [31:58] um at that point the only people that would be awake is us those of us that were doing operations [32:03] for the g-watt and then security forces so not to my knowledge um and do you think that in your [32:08] opinion that the equilateral triangle was the u.s government's technology i did once upon a time but [32:18] knowing what i know now [32:19] um i'll have to answer that question in a skiff probably i was getting one might ask questions [32:24] you teased us so knowing what you know now means what i know enough to know that if you want an [32:30] answer to that question go to arrow they have the answer do you think it was a foreign government [32:36] i do not no and arrow is supposed to be disclosing the last time i was in a skiff with arrow they [32:42] said they were going to be just doing disclosures uh had they been doing much of that [32:48] i don't know [32:49] i don't have an answer to you for you um i don't know i know what arrow reports publicly and i know [32:53] what i've been through yeah um and some of this stuff can be i think uh debunked right there are [33:00] sometimes there are weather balloons that look kind of a little funky or drones or whatever [33:04] depending on the angle direction speed etc um are you scared for your safety um [33:13] that's a complicated question uh so being here today um if i say the wrong word technically i can [33:19] be charged with espionage espionage is a death penalty whistleblowers have faced it john [33:23] kariaku for example i am not scared for my physical safety in the sense of a agency or company coming [33:32] to kill me but uh i have no job my career is has been tarnished you know i'm unemployed living off [33:39] of unemployment for the next three four weeks until that's gone so it's a complicated question [33:45] there have been stories leaked about your life to try to discredit you in the public [33:49] eye i as of now i don't know i i'll be you know they did that to mr grush i am aware yes ma'am [33:56] they leaked his medical private medical information horrific things it is um okay you [34:02] said in your testimony earlier with the chairwoman you know other things um i guess that has to be [34:09] mentioned in a skiff it would be other things it would pending i'm even legally allowed to speak on [34:15] and the people in the room are even legally allowed to hear it um and is that what's the [34:19] the the the need to know the like the the compartmentalized word like what the code [34:23] word is or the name of the program the special access program or even hear it you have to know the [34:28] word right i i would say the name of it right i would suggest that to be asked to uh dni dabored [34:33] um and work with her for that because i can't give you the answer on what is the requirements this is [34:39] what the u.s government does right they compartmentalize the information only certain [34:42] people know the the name of the program and if you don't know it you can't get the information [34:46] if you don't have the name you don't know what to ask for [34:49] reviewing the budget we go into a skiff we look at DoD budget and the the budget [34:52] of like black box programs and we don't know what we're looking at because we [34:56] don't know what these programs are is it a way for the government to hide from [34:59] Congress what's really going on where the money's going in my opinion [35:03] absolutely yes you mentioned to in your testimony earlier that quote that you [35:09] went to speak with the government and they said they said somebody's name a [35:13] colleague's name you said they shouldn't have mentioned that staff person's name [35:16] what does that mean a Senate staffer who is the one who helped me get to arrow [35:21] recommended me I go there gave me the email and the phone number because I [35:24] could not find that information at all at the time in fact I believe you guys [35:28] have talked about how arrow didn't even have a website for quite a period of [35:31] time we were told they were gonna do disclosures both what they've debunked [35:34] because some of it can be dumped and then what they haven't been able to [35:37] debunk and to my knowledge you know it hasn't been a thing I only have one [35:42] minute left so mr. Knapp we were definitely going to you watch every [35:44] documentary you you guys have done [35:46] a you and Jeremy have done a terrific job it's I usually have more questions [35:49] and I have answers I think we all do and you guys are doing a terrific job to [35:52] bring information to the public do you think that any of this is a psyop by the [35:56] US government entirely possible I mean they our government and other [36:02] governments have admitted that they've tried to use UFOs to cover secret [36:06] projects but I think they also do some reverse engineering of those claims so [36:10] years after people start seeing UFOs over area 51 for example [36:16] they come up with the story oh yeah that was we planted that story so I read [36:21] in a major newspaper just a couple of weeks ago they planted this story an Air [36:25] Force colonel went out into the desert went to a bar at Rachel and gave them [36:30] some fake UFO photos and that's how the whole story about area 51 started which [36:34] is preposterous yeah I didn't even get to the crash retrieval program stuff yet [36:39] Miss chairwoman there's just so much okay thank you so much for your time [36:45] today wish we had more time thank you madam chair I now recognize miss Crockett [36:55] for five minutes thank you so much madam chair and thank you so much to each of [36:59] the witnesses that have come before us today the federal government has had a [37:04] long standing over classification issue in general we all know that from the [37:11] assassinations of MLK and Malcolm X to the coin cell pro and torture programs [37:17] to now UAPs the federal government has kept the American public in the dark [37:22] about issues of immense public interest the federal government has routinely [37:27] made excuses for failing to provide transparency to the public the most [37:31] comment of which is national security concerns mr. Spielberger can you provide [37:37] an example of when national security was inappropriately used [37:41] you [37:41] as a pretext for classification congresswoman probably one of the most [37:47] infamous examples of that is the 9-11 Commission that found that over [37:52] classification was a key factor in the failure to adequately prevent the [37:58] attacks of that day in addition to that what lessons from these oversight [38:04] failures should guide Congress in approaching UAP oversight [38:10] policy Ayla [38:17] to start recognizing an unusual and [38:21] disturbing policy given that some of their Venezuelan [38:24] clients were actively否 [38:26] over classified and well- 快 [38:28] generally speaking we would advise this Congress to ensure that agencies adopt [38:33] general policy in favor of disclosure instead of a knee-jerk needing to over [38:38] classify information and documents [38:40] recommend adding additional factors to the considerations of cost value and [38:46] certainly to the extent that it's critical for the public interest and the [38:52] public's right to know especially when we are talking about these very serious [38:57] national security concerns and implications can you speak to how [39:02] whistleblowers have historically helped Congress uncover the truth in other [39:07] areas and how that might apply here [39:12] absolutely so again Congress has always relied on whistleblowers coming forward [39:18] and making disclosures in a number of different issues across different [39:23] agencies anything from national security to airline safety railway safety [39:32] environmental concerns workplace health and safety a lot of issues coming out of [39:37] the country and so I think it's important to think about that and I think [39:37] ften if something has to come forward for every government since we are in [39:41] an era of the COVID pandemic for example whistleblowers have come forward with [39:44] important disclosures on just about any critical issue affecting our government [39:48] and effecting the American people all of which have grave implications for the [39:55] rights and protections that we have and how we live our lives in communities [40:00] across the country how important is it for whistleblowers to have strong [40:05] protections when it comes to UAP related disclosures [40:07] DISCLOSURES OF OTHER TOPICS OF EXCESSIVE GOVERNMENT SECRECY. [40:12] IT'S ABSOLUTELY VITAL. THIS HAS BEEN ONE OF THE [40:16] DISAPPOINTING FAILURES OF DOING THIS WORK OF ADVOCATING FOR [40:21] STRONGER WHISTLEBLOWER PROTECTIONS. WE RECOGNIZE THE [40:26] INVALUABLE PUBLIC SERVICE THAT BRAVE WHISTLEBLOWERS PLAY IN [40:30] COMING FORWARD. AGAIN, TAKING ALL OF THESE RISKS THAT WE'VE [40:33] HEARD ABOUT, JUST TO SPEAK THE TRUTH, TO GET IMPORTANT [40:37] INFORMATION OUT IN THE PUBLIC CONSCIOUSNESS, BUT THEY CAN ONLY [40:42] DO SO WHEN WE HAVE SAFE AND SECURE CHANNELS FOR REPORTING, [40:47] WHEN THERE IS TRUST IN THE INDEPENDENCE OF AGENCY WATCHDOGS [40:52] LIKE INSPECTORS GENERAL, LIKE THE OFFICE OF SPECIAL COUNSEL, [40:55] LIKE THE MERIT SYSTEMS PROTECTION BOARD THAT PLAY [40:58] CRITICAL ROLES IN INVESTIGATING WHISTLEBLOWER DISCLOSURES AND [41:02] ENFORCING THE PROTECTION OF THE PROPERTY. [41:03] AND SO, I THINK THAT THE [41:05] CONSTITUTIONAL RULES THAT WE HAVE IN THE PUBLIC CONSCIOUSNESS [41:08] AND THE PROTECTIONS OF WHISTLEBLOWERS, ALL OF THAT IS [41:12] ESSENTIAL TO ALLOW WHISTLEBLOWERS TO KEEP COMING [41:16] FORWARD AND PLAYING THESE INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT PUBLIC [41:19] ROLES. THANK YOU SO MUCH. [41:22] LET ME JUST SAY THIS. PEOPLE LOOK AT CONGRESS, [41:25] ESPECIALLY NOW, AND THEY SEE A LACK OF UNITY. [41:29] THEY DON'T SEE THE ABILITY FOR US TO COME TOGETHER REALLY ON [41:32] MUCH OF ANYTHING. I WILL SAY THAT I DO APPLAUD [41:33] THE COMMITTEE AND THE WORK OF THIS COMMITTEE BECAUSE FOR ONCE [41:36] I FEEL LIKE WE ARE FOCUSING ON GOVERNING, WHICH SHOULD BE ABOUT [41:40] TRANSPARENCY. THE REALITY IS THAT WE CAUSE [41:43] MORE HARM THAN GOOD WHEN WE ALLOW A LACK OF TRANSPARENCY TO [41:48] FESTER. IT ALLOWS FOR ALL TYPES OF [41:51] CONSPIRACY THEORIES INSTEAD OF US ACTUALLY MAKING THE [41:54] INVESTMENTS THAT WE NEED TO MAKE TO GET THE INFORMATION AND [41:57] ACTUALLY PROVIDE IT TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. [42:00] THE REASON THAT I WANTED TO FOCUS ON MAKING SURE THAT WE [42:02] ANSWER SOME QUESTIONS SPECIFICALLY AROUND THE [42:05] PROTECTIONS OF THOSE THAT ARE WILLING TO COME FORWARD IS [42:08] BECAUSE THE ONLY WAY THAT WE CAN MAKE THIS GOVERNMENT ACTUALLY [42:11] WORK FOR ALL OF US IS IF NO MATTER WHERE YOU ARE IN THIS [42:14] FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, YOU FEEL AS IF YOU ARE SAFE WHEN YOU COME [42:18] FORWARD WITH INFORMATION OF ANY ISSUE. [42:22] AND SO I DO WANT TO THANK YOU FOR ALL OF YOUR STORIES. [42:25] THE REALITY IS THAT WE ONLY GET FIVE MINUTES. [42:28] WE ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO GET TO THE END OF THE SHOW. [42:31] THANK YOU. [42:32] THANK YOU. [42:33] I THINK THAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF EVERYTHING THAT YOU HAVE TO [42:37] SAY CANNOT BE CONTEXTUALIZED WITHIN FIVE MINUTES. [42:40] BUT I KNOW THAT MY COLLEAGUES ARE GOING TO GET TO KIND OF [42:43] PULLING SOME MORE OF THAT OUT. [42:45] BUT AGAIN, I REALLY JUST WANT TO THANK YOU FOR YOUR COURAGE IN [42:48] THIS MOMENT AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE TO OUR COUNTRY. [42:57] I NOW RECOGNIZE MR. BURCHETT FROM TENNESSEE FOR FIVE [43:01] MINUTES. [43:02] I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE TO OUR COUNTRY. [43:04] I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE TO OUR COUNTRY. [43:06] AND THANK YOU, RANKING MEMBER CROCKETT. [43:08] I SEE A LOT OF FRIENDS OUT THERE. [43:10] AND I SEE A COUPLE ENEMIES. [43:12] SO I'LL REMEMBER THAT. [43:14] BUT IT'S A PLEASURE BEING HERE. [43:16] I WANT TO REMIND PEOPLE, TOO, THIS THING IS AN ONGOING DEAL. [43:19] WE'RE NOT GOING TO GET THIS OVERNIGHT. [43:21] WE'VE BEEN FIGHTING THIS BATTLE, SOME OF YOU ALL, FOR 30 YEARS [43:25] AND MAYBE LONGER. [43:27] I HOPE WE KEEP FOCUSED ON WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO GET TO AS TOTAL [43:31] AS POSSIBLE. [43:32] WE'RE NOT GOING TO GET A LOT OF CLOSURE. [43:34] WE GET A LITTLE WRAPPED UP IN A LOT OF THINGS. [43:37] BUT THE GOVERNMENT HAS SOMETHING, AND THEY NEED TO TURN [43:40] IT OVER TO US. [43:41] WE PAY THEIR DADGUM SALARY. [43:43] YOU PAY OUR SALARY. [43:44] AND YOU OUGHT TO GET MORE OUT OF US THAN YOU DO. [43:46] AND THAT'S WHAT DISCUSSED ME ABOUT THIS WHOLE THING. [43:49] I THINK THEY'RE JUST TRYING TO RUN THE CLOCK OUT ON US, REALLY. [43:53] THEY'LL POKE US A LITTLE AND THEY'LL MAKE JOKES TO US AND [43:57] TRY TO PULL US OFF THE TARGET. [43:59] BUT I THINK WE KNOW WHERE WE'RE AT. [44:00] THAT'S WHY THEY'RE FIRING AT US, BECAUSE WE ARE OVER THE [44:02] TARGET. [44:03] MY FIRST QUESTION IS, MR. KNAPP, I RECENTLY INTRODUCED [44:08] THE UAP WHISTLEBLOWER PROTECTION ACT TO HELP PROVIDE [44:11] WHISTLEBLOWER PROTECTION TO FEDERAL PERSONNEL FOR CLOSING [44:14] THE USE OF FEDERAL TAXPAYER FUNDS TO INVESTIGATE UFOs. [44:19] I STILL DON'T WANT TO SAY UAPs. [44:21] HOW CAN CONGRESS FURTHER INCREASE WHISTLEBLOWER [44:24] PROTECTIONS? [44:28] I THINK YOU GOT TO UNLEASH THE DOG. [44:30] GO TRACK DOWN THE MONEY AND WHERE IT GOES. [44:33] A LOT OF THIS STUFF HAS BEEN MOVED OUT OF GOVERNMENT. [44:36] AS YOU KNOW, REP. BURCHETT, IT'S BEEN GIVEN TO PRIVATE [44:39] CONTRACTORS WHO STASHED IT AWAY. [44:41] THEY'VE HAD IT FOR SO LONG THAT THERE'S NOBODY LEFT INSIDE [44:44] GOVERNMENT OR VERY FEW WHO KNOW WHERE IT IS. [44:47] AND THEY DO THAT TO KEEP US FROM FOIA, CORRECT? [44:49] YEAH. [44:50] TO KEEP IT FROM FOIA. [44:52] AND I THINK THAT THE CONTRACTORS WHO HAD THIS STUFF FOR A VERY [44:55] LONG TIME SET THEIR OWN STANDARDS ABOUT WHO IS ALLOWED [44:58] TO KNOW WHAT. [44:59] AND IT'S A GOOD THING. [45:00] IT'S A VERY SMALL GROUP THAT EVER CRACKS THAT. [45:03] I THINK REPRESENTATIVE LUNA HAS BEEN LOOKING AT THE USE OF [45:06] CLASSIFICATIONS TO HIDE THINGS. [45:09] I'M NOT SURE THAT EVEN THIS COMMITTEE GETTING SECURITY [45:12] CLEARANCES THAT SHOULD ALLOW YOU TO SEE THIS STUFF WOULD ALLOW [45:15] YOU TO FOLLOW WHERE IT REALLY GOES. [45:17] I WORRY ABOUT THE PEOPLE THAT ARE LOOKING AT IT AND DON'T EVEN [45:20] KNOW WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING AT. [45:21] I MEAN, IT'S GONE THROUGH SO MANY, I MEAN, SINCE ROSWELL, FOR [45:25] INSTANCE. [45:26] I MEAN, YOU THINK THERE'S NOBODY EVEN ALIVE THAT WAS AROUND ANY [45:29] OF THAT STUFF. [45:30] I DON'T THINK THEY'VE MADE MUCH PROGRESS FROM THE PEOPLE [45:32] THAT I'VE TALKED TO. [45:33] I DON'T THINK THEY'VE MADE MUCH PROGRESS IN LEARNING THAT [45:35] TECHNOLOGY. [45:36] MIGHT HAVE MADE SOME. [45:37] BUT YOU WONDER, YOU KNOW, THE IMPLICATION IS TICK-TACK, OH, [45:39] YEAH, THAT'S OURS. [45:41] WHAT FLEW OVER WASHINGTON, D.C. IN 52, IS THAT OURS TOO? [45:44] WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO BREAK THAT OUT? [45:46] YOU GUYS AUTHORIZED TENS OF BILLIONS, HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS [45:48] OF DOLLARS ON WEAPON SYSTEMS THAT CAN'T DO HALF OF WHAT WE'VE [45:51] SEEN UFOs DO. [45:54] SO WHEN DO THEY BREAK THIS OUT IF IT'S REALLY A CLASSIFIED [45:58] PROJECT COULD CHANGE THE WORLD? [46:00] I DON'T THINK THEY'VE MADE MUCH PROGRESS. [46:02] I THINK THEY'VE BEEN LYING TO US AND TO YOU AND THE REST OF THE [46:05] WORLD, AND THEY'RE STILL DOING IT. [46:06] YES, SIR, I AGREE WITH YOU. [46:08] HOW DID YOU MANAGE TO OBTAIN THE CLASSIFIED RUSSIAN UAP [46:11] DOCUMENTS, AND HOW DID YOU GET THEM BACK INTO THE UNITED [46:14] STATES? [46:15] WELL, I MET THIS RUSSIAN PHYSICIST WHO WAS IN THE UNITED [46:18] STATES. [46:19] AND I WANT TO CLARIFY THAT. [46:21] I CAN'T EVEN TAKE A THING OF HONEY HOME FOR A MINUTE. [46:23] I CAN'T EVEN TAKE A THING OF HONEY HOME ON MY AIRPLANE WHEN I [46:26] FLY BACK TO TENNESSEE. [46:27] I DID SOMETHING PRETTY DUMB. [46:29] AND I'M BETTER ABOUT IT, BUT GO AHEAD. [46:31] I DID SOMETHING KIND OF DUMB. [46:33] I MET WITH THESE OFFICIALS WHO, YOU KNOW, DURING THAT TIME [46:36] PERIOD, GLASNOS, PERESTROIKA, THE RUSSIANS WERE TRYING TO OPEN [46:39] UP TO THE WORLD, AND I SAW IT AS A WINDOW OF OPPORTUNITY, AND IT [46:42] WAS. [46:43] AND WE WERE ABLE TO TALK THESE FOLKS INTO PROVIDING US [46:45] INFORMATION THAT OTHERWISE WE WOULD NEVER HAVE SEEN. [46:47] SOME OF THAT WAS CLASSIFIED. [46:53] I HAD NO DOCUMENTS THAT WERE CLASSIFIED, SO I JUST REMOVED [46:56] THEM. [46:57] I REMOVED THOSE PAGES AND I CARRIED THEM OUT. [46:59] AND IF THEY'D CAUGHT ME, I'D BE IN A GULAG STILL. [47:02] YEAH. [47:03] WE'D BE SAYING, WHAT HAPPENED TO GEORGE KNAPP? [47:05] OH, YEAH. [47:06] WHAT HAPPENED TO THE RUSSIANS THAT CAME FORWARD TO YOU IN 1993, [47:09] AND WERE THERE ANY REPERCUSSIONS FOR THEM? [47:11] WELL, THERE WERE. [47:12] THE FIRST THING THAT HAPPENED, WHEN I TALKED ABOUT THIS AFTER [47:15] GETTING BACK AND GOING THROUGH THE FILES AND THINGS AND [47:18] THINGS, THE RUSSIAN PHYSICIST WHO HAD HELPED US INTRODUCE ALL [47:23] THESE PEOPLE WROTE BACK AND SAID THERE WAS A HUGE ERUPTION, THAT [47:27] THERE WAS THE REAL RIGHT, FAR AUTOCRATIC FORCES THAT WANTED A [47:34] RETURN OF THE USSR HAD REALLY GO AFTER THESE GUYS. [47:38] THEY DESCRIBED THEM AS TRAITORS. [47:40] THE PHYSICIST FRIEND OF MINE SAID, LOOK, IF THIS HAD HAPPENED [47:43] FIVE YEARS EARLIER, WE WOULD BE IN PRISON. [47:46] IF IT HAD HAPPENED TEN YEARS EARLIER, WE WOULD HAVE BEEN [47:48] SHOT. LUCKILY AT THAT POINT, PUTIN [47:50] WAS NOT IN POWER, BUT NONE OF THOSE PEOPLE THAT WE TALKED TO [47:53] ON THAT TRIP IN 1993 WOULD EVER TALK TO ME AGAIN. [47:56] I WENT BACK IN 1996 AND IT WAS LIKE I HAD THE PLAGUE. [47:59] I SPOKE TO DIFFERENT PEOPLE, BUT THEY WERE SCARED. [48:02] AND EVENTUALLY THE STORY WAS SPUN WHERE THE MINISTRY OF [48:06] DEFENSE OFFICIALS WHO GAVE US THIS INFORMATION WERE DESCRIBED [48:10] AS EUPHOLOGISTS WHO SAID THERE WAS NOTHING REALLY SIGNIFICANT [48:13] TO THESE FILES. THEY DIDN'T REALLY FIND [48:16] ANYTHING A BIG DEAL. AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT THE [48:18] FOLKS AT ICBM, I CAN TELL YOU YOU'LL SEE THOSE FILES THAT I [48:20] SHARED WITH YOU. THEY DID FIND STUFF. [48:22] THERE WAS AN INCIDENT IN OCTOBER OF 1982 OVER AN ICBM [48:25] BASE WHERE UFOs POPPED UP, WAS OBSERVED OVER THIS BASE WHERE [48:29] THE MISSILES ARE POINTED AT US, THE UNITED STATES. [48:33] THESE UFOs PERFORM INCREDIBLE MANEUVERS. [48:35] THEY SPLIT APART. THEY FUSE BACK TOGETHER. [48:37] THEY APPEAR AND DISAPPEAR. AND RIGHT AT THE END OF THIS [48:40] FOUR-HOUR PERIOD, THE LAUNCH CONTROL CODES FOR THE ICBMS [48:45] LIT UP. SOMETHING ENTERED THE CORRECT [48:46] CODES. THE MISSILES WERE FIRED UP AND [48:49] READY TO LAUNCH AND THEY COULD NOT SHUT IT DOWN. [48:51] THE RUSSIAN OFFICERS WERE PANICKING. [48:53] THE UFOs GO, THEY DISAPPEARED. THE LAUNCH CONTROL SYSTEM GOES [48:56] BACK TO NORMAL. COLONEL SAKALOV AND HIS TEAM CAME [48:59] IN, TOOK THE THING APART, COULD NOT FIGURE OUT WHAT IT WAS. [49:02] IT WASN'T A POWER SURGE OR EMPs OR SOME OF THE BALONEY EXCUSES [49:06] THAT OUR COUNTRY HAS GIVEN FOR SIMILAR EVENTS INVOLVING OUR [49:09] NUCLEAR MISSILES. THEY THOUGHT IT WAS A MESSAGE [49:12] FROM WHEREVER THE UFOs WERE FROM. [49:14] THAT'S A CHILLING THING. WE WERE A COUPLE OF SECONDS [49:17] AWAY FROM WORLD WAR III STARTING AND THE UFOs WERE RESPONSIBLE [49:20] FOR IT. I'M OUT OF TIME. [49:22] REAL QUICK, WHO ARE THE CONTRACTORS THAT HAVE THIS [49:25] MATERIAL, CORPORATIONS? ONE OF THEM IS LOCKHEED. [49:28] I'M NOT SAYING LOCKHEED IS THE BAD GUYS. [49:31] THEY'RE DOING WHAT THEY WERE ASKED TO DO. [49:33] THEY HAVE LIED ABOUT THIS BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE [49:36] SUPPOSED TO DO. LOCKHEED WOULD BE ONE. [49:38] THERE'S A LIST I CAN GIVE YOU, CONGRESSMAN. [49:40] SOME OF THE BIG ONES, THE USUAL SUSPECTS. [49:42] THANK YOU. YOU'LL BE ABLE TO GO TO THE [49:44] BACK, SORRY FOR GOING OVER. [49:46] IT'S ALL GEORGE KNAPP'S FAULT. [49:49] I NOW RECOGNIZE MS. BOBERT FOR FIVE MINUTES. [49:53] THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR. CHIEF WIGGINS, BASED ON YOUR [49:56] TRAINING AND OPERATIONAL EXPERIENCE, COULD THE BEHAVIOR [49:59] THAT YOU WITNESSED, A TRANSMEDIUM OBJECT VANISHING [50:03] WITHOUT A SOUND, BE EXPLAINED BY ANY KNOWN TECHNOLOGY THAT [50:07] WE POSSESS OR OTHER GOVERNMENTS POSSESS? [50:10] IT CANNOT. NO. [50:13] AND HAS ANY GOVERNMENT EXPLAINED THAT? [50:14] NO. [50:15] OKAY. [50:16] SO, DOES ANY AGENCY DEBRIEFED YOU OR ANY OF YOUR SHIPMATES [50:23] REGARDING THE EOIR AND RADAR CONFIRMED UAP ENCOUNTER ABOARD [50:28] USS JACKSON? [50:29] NO ONE HAS, NO MANY. [50:31] WHAT WAS THAT ENCOUNTER LIKE WHEN YOU BROUGHT THAT UP, IF YOU [50:34] WANT TO BRIEFLY SUMMARIZE THAT? [50:36] WHEN YOU BROUGHT THAT TO THEIR ATTENTION AND THEN YOU WERE [50:40] NOT PROVIDED ANY FOLLOW-UP, WHO WAS TOLD AND WHAT, HOW DID YOU [50:43] FEEL WHEN THERE WAS NO CONTACT BACK TO YOU? [50:46] AS FAR AS THE ACTUAL INCIDENT HAPPENING OR THE REPORTING [50:50] LEVEL? [50:51] YES, SIR. [50:52] YES, CHIEF. [50:53] IT WAS WITHIN THE EVENT HAPPENING, MY DUTIES ARE TO [50:57] REPORT TO THE TACTICAL ACTION OFFICER ON WATCH WHILE WE'RE [51:00] STANDING WATCH. [51:01] SO, TACTICAL ACTION OFFICER WAS THERE. [51:04] I MADE MY REPORT. [51:06] I'VE NOT HAD ANY DISCUSSION OUTSIDE OF THAT DAY. [51:10] THERE'S BEEN NO COMMUNICATION TO ME. [51:12] THERE'S BEEN NO COMMUNICATION TO ME OR REQUESTS FROM ME TO, [51:15] YOU KNOW, WITHIN SIDE OF THE MILITARY. [51:18] BUT SPEAKING OF THAT ACTUAL INCIDENT ITSELF, ONCE THE [51:23] REPORT WAS MADE TO THE TACTICAL ACTION OFFICER, THAT'S WHEN I [51:28] MADE THE DECISION TO ASK THE INDIVIDUAL WATCH STANDARD THAT [51:33] WAS CONTROLLING SAFIRE TO BE ABLE TO SLU INTO THE LOCATION. [51:38] AND THAT'S WHAT YOU SEE IN THE VIDEO ITSELF IS WHEN THE [51:42] WATCH STANDARD IS SLUING IN AND KIND OF SHOWING US WHAT WE'RE [51:47] LOOKING AT. [51:48] BUT OUTSIDE OF THAT, THAT'S AS FAR AS THE REPORTING WENT THAT I [51:52] KNOW OF. [51:53] THANK YOU, CHIEF. [51:54] JUST FOR THE SAKE OF TIME, MR. NUSSATELI, HAS ARO, THE AIR [51:58] FORCE, OR THE FBI EVER FOLLOWED UP WITH YOU PERSONALLY ABOUT THE [52:02] RED SQUARE EVENT? [52:03] I DID HAVE FOLLOW-UP BY ARO. [52:06] NOTHING BUT THE AIR FORCE. [52:08] THE ARO OFFICE UPDATED ME THAT THEY WERE INVOLVED IN THE [52:12] RED SQUARE EVENT. [52:13] I THINK AT LEAST TWO TIMES. [52:15] THEY LET ME KNOW THAT THEY WERE UNABLE TO LOCATE ANY RECORDS, [52:18] THAT THE RECORDS HAD BEEN DESTROYED BY THE AIR FORCE. [52:21] THE AIR FORCE IS DESTROYING ALL THEIR POLICE RECORDS EVERY THREE [52:24] YEARS ON A SCHEDULE. [52:26] YOU WERE INFORMED THAT THESE DOCUMENTS WERE DESTROYED? [52:30] WELL, I HAVE A FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT FROM THE AIR [52:33] FORCE THAT STATES CLEARLY THAT THEY DESTROY ALL POLICE RECORDS [52:36] ON A THREE-YEAR SCHEDULE. [52:38] OKAY. [52:39] SO THEY WERE SITTING ON DOCUMENTATION, DESTROYED IT, [52:41] REFUSED TO QUESTION ANY OF THE LEAD INVESTIGATORS, ANYTHING [52:47] LEADING INTO THIS INVESTIGATION? [52:50] YEAH, BASICALLY THEY DESTROYED ALL THE POLICE RECORDS. [52:55] SO YOU COULDN'T EVEN, LIKE, CALL THE AIR FORCE AND ASK THEM IF [52:58] THERE WAS A VEHICLE ACCIDENT IN THAT TIME FRAME. [53:01] SO THAT'S A BIG PROBLEM. [53:04] WE'RE LOSING DATA IN REAL TIME. [53:06] SO WE'LL NEVER BE ABLE TO GO BACK AND TRACK. [53:08] I THINK OUR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS A HISTORY OF DESTROYING [53:10] POLICE RECORDS. [53:11] AND WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO GO BACK AND TRACK. [53:12] OKAY. [53:13] SO THAT'S A BIG PROBLEM. [53:14] DESTROYING RECORDS. [53:15] THANK YOU. [53:16] THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. [53:17] NUSSETALI. [53:18] DR. [53:19] BORLIN, AS A GEOSPATIAL INTELLIGENCE OFFICER, HAVE YOU [53:21] SEEN CLASSIFIED DATA INDICATING UAPs OPERATE IN RESTRICTED U.S. [53:25] AIRSPACE? [53:26] AND HAS THAT INFORMATION BEEN WITHHELD FROM CONGRESS? [53:30] I HAVE NOT IN U.S. [53:32] AIRSPACE. [53:33] THAT IS INTELLIGENCE OVERSIGHT. [53:35] SO I DID NOT HAVE DOMESTIC AUTHORITIES. [53:38] OKAY. [53:39] AND IN YOUR INSPECTOR GENERAL COMPLAINT OVER RETALIATION INSIDE THE PENTAGON'S UAP OFFICE, [53:43] DID YOU RECEIVE ANY KIND OF PROTECTION OR JUST MORE RETALIATION? [53:48] WITHIN THE IG OR AERO, MA'AM? [53:51] EITHER. [53:52] AERO, THEY WENT AFTER THE STAFF MEMBER AND CLASSIFIED EVERYTHING, SHUT THAT DOWN. [53:58] THE IG, TO THIS DAY, I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF MY COMPLAINT IS ACTIVE. [54:02] I KNOW MY ATTORNEY THAT REPRESENTED ME WAS VERY, VERY, VERY CONCERNED. [54:07] AND THE BEST OF MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT I DID NOT HAVE ANY CONFIDENCE IN THEIR CONFIDENCE. [54:08] I WAS DETERMINED CREDIBLE, NOT URGENT. [54:11] AND DO YOU THINK THAT THAT EXPERIENCE WOULD SUGGEST THAT THE INTERNAL UAP INVESTIGATIONS MAY BE COMPROMISED? [54:21] POSSIBLY. [54:22] I MEAN, IT'S SO HARD BECAUSE THIS GOES BACK TO PEOPLE DOING THE JOB THEY'RE TOLD TO DO. [54:27] AND VERY FEW PEOPLE ARE GOING TO WANT TO GIVE UP THEIR CAREERS, 20, 30-YEAR PENSION, GIVE UP, GET RID OF THEIR KIDS' HEALTH CARE, GET RID OF THEIR HOUSE. [54:34] IT'S POSSIBLE, YES. [54:37] OKAY. [54:38] THANK YOU VERY MUCH, DR. BORLIN. [54:40] MR. SPIELBERGER, DO NATIONAL SECURITY WHISTLEBLOWERS CURRENTLY HAVE ANY EXTERNAL APPEALS PROCESSES TO CHALLENGE RETALIATION, OR ARE THEY JUST STUCK RELYING ON THE SAME AGENCIES THAT THEY'RE ACCUSING? [54:56] CONGRESSWOMAN, THIS IS ONE OF THE BIGGEST CONCERNS THAT WE AT POGO HAVE BASICALLY AROUND THE INDEPENDENCE OF INVESTIGATIONS AND ACCOUNTABILITY FOR RETALIATION. [55:07] BASICALLY, WE HAVE A LOT OF CONCERNS THAT WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT. [55:08] WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IS THE BASIC REASON FOR THAT. [55:09] AND BASICALLY, YES, NATIONAL SECURITY WHISTLEBLOWERS HAVE TO RELY ON INTERNAL ADMINISTRATIVE PROCESSES THAT GO THROUGH AGENCY INSPECTOR GENERALS. [55:17] THERE ARE SOME DIFFERENTIATIONS, BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT THEY ARE FORCED TO RELY ON PROTECTION FROM THE SAME AGENCIES AND PEOPLE WHO THEY ARE ALLEGING RETALIATED AGAINST THEM. [55:29] YES. [55:30] WELL, I THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR BRAVERY. [55:31] WE ARE OUT OF TIME HERE. [55:33] THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING FORWARD. [55:34] AND WE WILL DO EVERYTHING THAT WE CAN TO ENSURE THAT YOU ARE ALL PROTECTED. [55:37] THANK YOU FOR TRYING TO BRING TRUTH AND TRANSPARENCY TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. [55:40] MADAM CHAIR, I YIELD. [55:42] I NOW RECOGNIZE MR. BERLINSON FOR ABOUT FIVE MINUTES. [55:45] THANK YOU, EVERYONE. [55:46] IT TAKES SUCH GREAT COURAGE TO COME FORWARD, AND WE ACKNOWLEDGE THAT, AND I HOPE THAT YOU SEE THAT WE ARE TAKING THAT SERIOUSLY. [55:53] AND SO VERY THANKFUL FOR WHAT YOU ARE DOING TODAY. [55:56] I'M ALSO VERY THANKFUL FOR PREVIOUS WITNESSES THAT HAVE COME FORWARD. [56:00] I SEE MATTHEW BROWN IN THE AUDIENCE. [56:02] HE COURAGEOUSLY STEPPED FORWARD AND WAS AS A WITNESS. [56:06] HE WAS A GREAT WITNESS. [56:07] I ENCOURAGE EVERYBODY TO LOOK AND SEEK HIS TESTIMONY. [56:11] I WANT TO THANK THE PEOPLE THAT CAME IN OUR FIRST HEARING, RYAN GRAVES, DAVID GRUSH, DAVID FRAVER, AND IN OUR SECOND HEARING, ADMIRAL GALADETTE, LOU ELIZONDO, AND MR. GOLD, AND THE MANY OTHERS THAT HAVE COME FORWARD. [56:27] WE HEAR YOU, AND IT'S TIME THAT WE, YOU KNOW, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. [56:31] IT'S TIME THAT WE TAKE ACTION. [56:33] LOOK, I'M NOT JUMPED TO THE CONCLUSION THAT I BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE, YOU KNOW, THINGS THAT ARE GOING ON IN THE COMMUNITY. [56:37] I'M NOT JUMPED TO THE CONCLUSION THAT THERE ARE ALIENS COMING FROM ANOTHER PLANET. [56:40] BUT I'M OPEN TO THAT. [56:42] AND I THINK THAT IT'S OUR RESPONSIBILITY, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE'RE SEEING THAT WE HAVE A GOVERNMENT THAT IS BLOCKING, ACTIVELY BLOCKING INFORMATION FROM US. [56:50] JUST LAST NIGHT, I TRIED TO GET AN AMENDMENT ONTO THE NATIONAL DEFENSE AUTHORIZATION ACT THAT FIT IN THE GERMANENESS OF THAT BILL TO HAVE UAP DISCLOSURE. [57:01] AND CONVENIENTLY, IT WAS NAMED NON-GERMANE, MOSTLY DEEMED BY STAFF. [57:06] NOT EVEN THE GOVERNMENT. [57:07] NOT EVEN AN ELECTED OFFICIAL. [57:09] THIS IS THE KIND OF STUFF THAT WE REPEATEDLY SEE. [57:12] LAST YEAR, WE WERE BLOCKED BY SOMEONE IN HOUSE ADMINISTRATION FROM BEING ABLE TO RECEIVE A FULL BRIEFING FROM ARROW. [57:21] SO NOT AN ELECTED OFFICIAL, BUT SOMEONE IN STAFF BLOCKED US. [57:25] AND I'VE HAD IT. [57:26] ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. [57:28] I WANT TO QUEUE UP A VIDEO THAT I'VE BEEN GIVEN. [57:32] AND BEFORE IT STARTS, I'M GOING TO DESCRIBE. [57:35] THIS WAS TAKEN OCTOBER 30TH OF 2021. [57:37] THIS VIDEO IS OF AN MQ-9 DRONE TRACKING AN ORB, OR THIS OBJECT, OFF THE COAST OF YEMEN. [57:45] YOU'LL SEE THAT ANOTHER MQ-9 LAUNCHED A HELLFIRE MISSILE. [57:51] YOU CANNOT SEE THAT DRONE. [57:54] AND SO I'M NOT GOING TO EXPLAIN IT TO YOU. [57:57] YOU'LL SEE EXACTLY WHAT IT DOES. [58:07] AND I'M GOING TO CONTINUE TO SHOW YOU HOW IT'S BEING PICKED UP. [58:13] THIS IS WHEN IT ZOOMED OUT. [58:17] SO YOU CAN STILL SEE IT TRAVELING. [58:35] THIS IS WHEN IT ZOOMED OUT. [58:36] So, Mr. Knapp, do you have any, have you heard about, you know, events like this occurring? [58:51] And what information might you have? [58:54] I have heard about events like this. [58:57] I have heard about this event. [58:58] Jeremy Corbell and I talked about it in one of our episodes a while back. [59:02] We did not have the video, though. [59:03] There are servers where there's a whole bank of these kind of videos that Congress has not been allowed to see, [59:11] that the public hasn't been allowed to see. [59:12] Occasionally some of that stuff gets out in the wild and it comes our way. [59:16] It should be going to you. [59:18] You know, the public should be seeing this stuff. [59:20] And why you're not allowed to, I don't know. [59:22] But that's a Hellfire missile smacking into that UFO and just bounced right off. [59:27] And it kept going. [59:28] It kept going. [59:29] And it looks like the debris was taken with it. [59:31] Yeah. [59:31] What the hell is that? [59:33] What? [59:33] What? [59:33] What? [59:33] What? [59:33] So, again, I'm not going to speculate what it is, but the question is, you know, [59:39] why are we being blocked from this information consistently? [59:43] I want to ask this question. [59:45] How in the world? [59:46] This is the document. [59:47] I want to enter this in for the record if it hasn't already been entered, Madam Chair. [59:52] The document that you provided on thread three, this is a huge file. [59:57] How in the world did you smuggle this out of Russia? [1:00:00] Carefully. [1:00:01] In your socks? [1:00:02] I don't think I want to be really specific about it because I might have to go back there [1:00:07] and get some more sometime. [1:00:08] Okay. [1:00:09] No, that would be crazy to do that. [1:00:11] Well, I, again, I took the top pages off that were stamped with the security signature and [1:00:18] I carried them out on my person. [1:00:20] But the rest of them I just threw in my suitcase and threw some caviar in there as a distraction [1:00:24] as well and hoped for the best. [1:00:27] Otherwise, I'd be a citizen of Siberia right now. [1:00:30] And you had, you reported. [1:00:32] James Likatsky came to you with government possession of NHI craft and how they ultimately gained entry. [1:00:41] Can you testify to the veracity of that claim? [1:00:44] Dr. [1:00:45] Likatsky is an honorable man who served most of his career with the DIA, a very trusted high level rocket scientist and [1:00:52] intelligence analyst who inspired the OSAP program, as I said earlier. [1:00:56] And in, you know, in full disclosure, I've co-written two books with him. [1:01:01] He dropped this on. [1:01:02] And myself and our other co-author out of the blue. [1:01:05] And it took 14 months for us to get DOPSER approval for him to release two sentences on that. [1:01:12] He said this craft, we had managed to get inside of it. [1:01:16] It had no wings, no rotor, no tail. [1:01:19] It had no fuel, no fuel tanks. [1:01:21] They didn't know how it flew or how it was operated. [1:01:24] It clearly looked like it was aerodynamic. [1:01:27] But he would not go further. [1:01:29] He's a by-the-book guy. [1:01:30] And until he gets clearance to say more, he's out. [1:01:31] I'm not going to lie. [1:01:32] I'm going to say more about that. [1:01:33] I don't think we're going to hear much more. [1:01:35] But it's not ours. [1:01:37] It wasn't ours. [1:01:38] We didn't make it. [1:01:39] We didn't know who made it and how it was built and how it operated. [1:01:42] We've got at least one. [1:01:43] And I don't know. [1:01:44] I think that's enough confirmation that we do have recovered disks and materials. [1:01:48] And lastly, Mr. Borland, in the classified realm, have you been exposed to undeniable [1:01:56] confirmation of NHI technology? [1:01:59] And then my second question is, is Bay Systems involved? [1:02:01] Is it a private company? [1:02:02] I'm just looking at the numbers. [1:02:04] Is it an agency? [1:02:05] Is it a company? [1:02:06] And then lastly, I guess, as well, is it any one of those that you're aware of, is it [1:02:08] any one of those companies that you're aware of, is it a private company? [1:02:09] And then my third question is, is Bay Systems involved in any way with reverse engineering [1:02:10] exploitation of non-human intelligence craft? [1:02:11] Yeah, we're going to have to have a conversation for that, whether I'm legally [1:02:13] even allowed to answer that, and whether you're even allowed to hear it, sir. [1:02:18] Again, you can sense our frustration. [1:02:21] And so I just want to thank you for coming forward. [1:02:24] We will continue to fight because, look, this is about making sure that this government [1:02:27] belongs to the people and restoring the republic the way it was intended to be. [1:02:30] Thank you. [1:02:31] Thank you. [1:02:32] Madam Chair, I also have further witnesses of courageous individuals. [1:02:37] It was given to me by Dr. Steven Greer, including Michael Herrera and his testimony. [1:02:45] We have Roderick Castle and his testimony, Randy Anderson, his testimony, Steven Digna, [1:02:53] and others, three others, all saying similar things to what the witnesses today have said. [1:02:58] And I would like to enter that into the record as well. [1:03:00] No objection. [1:03:01] Thank you. [1:03:02] I now recognize Representative Lee for five minutes. [1:03:06] Thank you, Madam Chair. [1:03:08] I think we need to make sure that we don't get distracted by sensational stories only [1:03:15] of unidentified anomalous phenomena and lose track of what the core of this hearing is [1:03:20] about. [1:03:21] This is all a perfect example of why whistleblowers are so important and why it's so important [1:03:27] that we step up and protect them. [1:03:29] With Trump, RFK Jr., EPA Administrators, and the Department of Defense, we are all in this [1:03:31] together. [1:03:32] And we stand right here for the justice questão here. [1:03:33] You said, very well. [1:03:35] We're in agreement that this is not about voting votes coming from a Republican without [1:03:39] heißing lights. [1:03:40] Our members are mine. [1:03:41] It's about voting votes, and we're all in this together. [1:03:45] And, with SPEAKER病 and the requested discussion management, biased remarks about [1:03:48] the [1:03:49] 12 [1:03:51] electrical [1:03:55] signal [1:03:56] oil [1:03:57] in [1:03:57] Washington. [1:03:58] I think when we return to the topic as much thatарra-the American ammo warehouse fell [1:03:58] in room [1:03:59] 14 [1:04:00] hours [1:04:00] last [1:04:01] ages. [1:04:01] Thankfully, that's because we keep shooting governmental vehicles from employees who shoutura-a M cognitive [1:04:02] who are the tip of the sword fighting against the real waste, fraud, and abuse. [1:04:06] One study found that whistleblowers expose fraud at more than twice the rate of third-party auditors. [1:04:12] So, Mr. Spielberger, what are some of the best examples of whistleblowers exposing fraud and abuse in the federal government? [1:04:21] Thank you, Congresswoman. [1:04:23] Again, whistleblowers have played such a vital role across so many different issues. [1:04:27] One prominent example goes back to the 2014 VA waitlist scandal. [1:04:34] POGO actually played a very instrumental role coordinating with Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America. [1:04:40] At that time, we received tips and whistleblower disclosures from over 800 different individuals [1:04:46] talking about the VA subjecting veterans to extensive whistleblowers [1:04:57] and the VA's role in the fight against fraud and abuse. [1:04:59] The VA was able to provide the right to whistleblowers to attend the event. [1:05:01] The VA also provided them with the right to wait times in order to get the basic standard of care that they deserve. [1:05:03] It certainly prolonged serious illnesses, even contributing to hastened deaths. [1:05:09] And we were able to help shed more light on that issue, [1:05:19] which I think just emphasizes the importance, even outside of the national security context, [1:05:25] we are often still talking about the fact that we are not the only ones who are facing this kind of crisis. [1:05:27] We are also talking about serious issues and even life and death concerns. [1:05:31] And unfortunately, whistleblowers can, whistleblowing can lead to serious repercussions. [1:05:36] And retaliation, especially in this vindictive and lawless administration. [1:05:40] Mr. Spielberger, in the past, what kinds of retaliation have they faced [1:05:44] and what are we seeing today under the Trump administration? [1:05:47] So we've certainly heard about a number of different examples of retaliation. [1:05:53] One that I'd like to highlight that Mr. Borland referenced previously, [1:05:57] is retaliation through abuse of the security clearance process. [1:06:02] That can have grave implications, not just for a whistleblower, [1:06:05] but also their ability to seek legal counsel and defend themselves against retaliation. [1:06:11] And when we look at the past several months of this administration, [1:06:15] unfortunately, we've seen a really systematic approach toward dismantling the nonpartisan civil service. [1:06:22] We've seen the mass firings. [1:06:24] We've seen undermining of independent agencies. [1:06:27] We've seen the emergency watchdogs, mass firings of inspectors general, [1:06:31] undermining the Office of Special Counsel, the Merit Systems Protection Board. [1:06:35] Again, these entities that are meant to be independent [1:06:39] and play a critical role in investigating whistleblower disclosures [1:06:43] and ensuring that their rights are protected. [1:06:48] Thank you. [1:06:49] In 1989, Congress passed the Whistleblower Protection Act [1:06:51] and then broadened it again in 2012 [1:06:53] to ensure that federal workers could feel free to come forward [1:06:56] to their elected officials. [1:06:57] Social justice now puts repeating laws on labor force distribution [1:06:59] strait?? [1:07:00] Barbie apologizes to the products [1:07:02] when it comes coming toнес