Tucker Carlson Holds NOTHING Back on Trump, Israel, Iran & the Future of America

[0:00] It's been a long time coming. He's wanted me on his show, I wanted him on my show, [0:04] and finally I got him, which means I'm in danger because I owe him a guest appearance myself. [0:09] But he's a former Fox News host, a prominent far-right pundit, and once a staunch supporter [0:15] of President Donald Trump, but no longer. Since leaving Fox News in 2023, he's launched [0:21] an opponent's talk show and just recently announced his departure from the Republican [0:26] Party. Please welcome, for the first time, the straight shooter with yours truly, the one and [0:30] only Tucker Carlson. Tucker Carlson, how you doing, man? How's everything? Well, I'm as far-right as [0:36] ever. Who writes this crap, far-right? What is far-right anyway? Well, you tell me. You tell me. [0:42] What would have been? I have no idea. It means Nazi. What would have been the appropriate introduction [0:50] for Tucker Carlson today? Cultivated, handsome, erudite, irresistibly appealing to women and men [0:56] in a platonic way? Just stuff like that, normal stuff. So you really expect a dude to introduce [1:02] you like this? Stop that. Stop that. No, no, no. But without making it clear that you're not [1:06] attracted to me physically, but you see the appeal that others are so obviously taken by. [1:14] We'll go with that for now. We'll go with that for now. Let's get right to it, Tucker Carlson. [1:20] I mean, you've spoken out. Once upon a time, you supported the president. That is no longer [1:26] the case. Not to be redundant, but remind our audience why you don't seem to be as supportive [1:33] of President Trump as you once were. Well, I supported him. Not only supported him, [1:38] I campaigned with him and for him and spoke at the Republican National Convention and knew him for 20 [1:43] years. And I defended him at Fox, you know, for my entire time there. And I got along with him really [1:50] well until about 20 minutes ago, actually until February 28th, when he launched a regime change war [1:56] on behalf of Israel with Israel on Iran, a war that every person who was paying attention knew [2:03] could not be won and that would only damage the United States. And I told him that repeatedly [2:08] before he did it. And it wasn't, from my perspective, just a mistake. It was like the end of an entire [2:14] moment in world history where the United States, you know, has enough power to influence events. [2:19] That's all done, I think, because of this. And I think it's going to dramatically affect the standard [2:25] of living in the United States and in Western Europe, which I care about. I think it's the [2:29] most disastrous decision any American president has made in my lifetime and nothing comes close. [2:34] So, you know, it's not that I hate Trump as a person. I feel sorry for Trump. He wasn't able [2:39] to make an independent decision. He's controlled by another country, but I disapprove of it and I'm [2:44] outraged on behalf of my country, which is the United States. Well, Tucker, why does it have to be [2:50] that he's controlled by another country? Why can't it be? Well, it doesn't have to be that way. It [2:55] shouldn't be that way. No president should ever be controlled by another country. Just let me ask [2:58] the question. Just let me ask the question. Yeah. Why does it have to be that as opposed to [3:02] he genuinely feels this way and this is the decision that he made and it's just something [3:07] that you don't agree with as opposed to him being controlled by another country? Well, I would like [3:14] that to be true. It's not true. And there are a lot of people demanding that I claim that's true, [3:17] but I was there and that's not true. It's a fact that he followed Israel into this war. He said it [3:23] himself and so did his secretary of state. And there's this frantic effort to by agents of Israel [3:28] to rewrite history and make us forget what what what just happened in February, which was the United [3:35] States following the lead of Israel into a war that gravely harms the United States. That's just [3:40] that's what happened. Trump was not for this. I talked to him a lot about it. He made no case to [3:45] the American public demonstrating that he was for it. He said, well, I don't want to run to have a [3:49] nuclear program. OK, that's fair. I guess I don't really care, but he cared. And then in June last [3:56] June, he said he eliminated the nuclear program. And then six months later, he's like, we have to go [4:00] to war. We have to kill the leader of Shia Islam because of the nuclear. It didn't make any sense. [4:05] He followed Israel into this. He did this under pressure from Israel. They chose when it started. [4:10] They chose the parameters of the war. And critically, they were our partner in the war, [4:14] like literally went into this war with Israel. I'm not saying that because I'm a bigot or an [4:19] anti-Semite or a Nazi. I'm saying this because that's what the U.S. government told us. So there [4:23] has been this effort to lie about what just happened. And I've seen this a lot. I saw it with [4:28] 9-11. I saw it with the Iraq war. And I'm just not going to play along again because I was there. [4:33] I know what happened. So my question would be this. He's the leader of the free world. Why does he need [4:39] to follow anybody? Why is another country leading us as opposed to it being the other [4:44] way around? How do you explain that? Dude, you tell me. I don't have the answer. I said this to [4:50] him directly. I said this to him during the 12-day war in last June, which Israel started. And we [4:57] didn't benefit from it, obviously. We went to war again. That was the beginning of the regime change [5:02] war that they planned and wanted for their own reasons. It had nothing to do with our strategic [5:07] goals or our interests at all. It only hurt the United States. It killed a bunch of Americans. [5:12] It's going to drive us out of the region, destroyed all of our bases on the Gulf. [5:15] It's a disaster. So I told him at the time, you are being led around by the nose by Netanyahu [5:21] and everyone can see it. And, you know, he didn't like to hear that, but it was a fact. [5:25] And it remains a fact. What did he say to you when you told him? Why is that? [5:28] When you said that to him, when you said those words that you just said, what did he say to you? [5:33] What did you say to him? What did he say to you in response? I think you know Trump, [5:37] so you can picture the scene. Trump hates confrontation, direct confrontation. Hates [5:42] it. Can't deal with it at all. He likes everyone to get along. He likes to tell jokes. And I like [5:46] this about him. I'm not criticizing it at all. He said, oh no, it's going to be totally fine. [5:50] That's not true. And it's fine. It's going to be great. It's going to be great. And then he had [5:54] someone else call and say that he was offended by it, which I understand. You know, I shouldn't [5:57] have said that. I was, I snapped. I was so frustrated. This is embarrassing. I'm an American. [6:02] Whatever you think of this country, which has treated me very well. And, you know, my family's been [6:07] here forever. I like America. I live here. My kids live here. This hurts America. And I don't [6:13] like to see the United States humiliated because it's my country. And that's humiliating. Why are [6:17] you taking orders from a country of 9 million people with no resources? And I'm not even [6:20] attacking Israel. I'm attacking our leaders who today in the U.S. Congress right now, as we're [6:25] talking, are voting to merge the U.S. military with the IDF, the Israeli Defense Force, the group [6:31] committing genocide in the Middle East. [6:32] And why would we be doing that? Why would we be merging with the IDF? What would be the [6:38] reason for that? It's totally bonkers. I'll tell you why we're not doing it is because [6:41] like the overwhelming majority of Americans want it. They don't. Who would want that? [6:44] What's the upside for us? We're doing it because Israel wants it. And Israel controls our politics [6:50] through campaign donations, at least. And maybe there are other ways that it controls our [6:54] politics. But there's no debate about it now. This is not an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory. [6:59] My whole life I've watched this. My whole life I've said nothing about it. And in a lot of ways, [7:04] I was intimidated by the claim that anyone who notices is an anti-Semite. Well, I'm not an [7:08] anti-Semite. I'm never going to be an anti-Semite. I abhor anti-Semitism and all forms of racism, [7:13] no matter what they say. I'm not for it. So that's not my motive. My motive is it's true. [7:18] And trying to bully me into saying it's not true is not going to work. Why is it happening? I don't [7:24] know. And I've said this a million times in public. And I really think we need a national [7:28] conversation about why the president of the United States not just hurt his country, [7:33] but hurt himself and his legacy and his party and everything that he worked all these years [7:37] to build, trying to stay out of prison and almost murdered by a gunman and butler, [7:42] all the drama that he went through, all thrown away because now he's the president that led us [7:47] into a war that we cannot win. We cannot win the war. And by the way, if we can win the war, [7:50] tell me how. Is there a military means by which we open the straightforward moves? No. [7:55] And if there was, we wouldn't have used it. What about the notion? What about the notion [7:58] that you're keeping Iran from capturing a nuclear weapon? That would be their argument. That's what [8:02] they would say. That's what he's been saying. That's what his supporters have been saying. [8:05] Iran, remember, he told us, you're absolutely right. Initially, they bombed him last June [8:09] and they talked about we've obliterated them. We're good. And then a few months later, [8:13] he bombs them again because supposedly they're a month away from having a nuclear weapon. And we have [8:18] to stop that at all costs. Even now, they'll say, you don't want Iran to capture a nuclear weapon. [8:23] There's plenty of conservatives walking around throughout the country that don't know things [8:27] nearly as intimately as you do. And that's the excuse that they use. Well, we've got to keep [8:30] Iran from capturing a nuclear weapon. That's why Trump is doing what he's doing. What do you say [8:34] to that? I mean, it's sad and insulting and no one who thinks about it for more than three minutes [8:40] believes it. If there was ever a time when Iran has to get a nuclear weapon is now because we've [8:46] just proved what happens when you don't have a nuclear weapon. When you have a nuclear weapon and [8:50] your North Korea, a Stalinist slave state, we leave you alone. No one's arguing for an invasion [8:56] of North Korea on the basis of human rights. You know, they're mean to their people. They throw [9:00] them in concentration camps. They don't have free speech. They don't have democracy. We need to [9:02] invade. No one's saying that because North Korea, unlike Iran, has nuclear weapons. So you can't be [9:10] messed with when you have nuclear weapons. So what's the incentive for every nation on the [9:13] freaking planet is to get nuclear weapons as soon as possible or else get regime changed by the [9:17] United States? Nuclear weapons means other countries have to respect you. Therefore, we have just set [9:23] in motion an irresistible incentive to get nuclear weapons and Iran will have them at some point. [9:29] They'll buy them from Pakistan, which is what North Korea did, or they'll create them on their own. [9:34] They have the technological know-how, obviously. But once you kill the 87-year-old religious leader [9:42] of their religion, once you murder the Shiite pope, which we did, you ensure that there is a [9:47] generational conflict that our grandkids are going to have to deal with. We haven't had a lot of terror [9:52] attacks in the United States, despite what the liars tell you. We haven't. We're separated by an ocean. [9:57] We've done a pretty good job of not having those. We're going to have them now. And they are a result of [10:01] what the Trump administration just did at the behest of Israel. So this doesn't make us safer. Anyone who [10:06] thinks it does, I feel sorry for. You've lost your capacity for thinking independently. But any normal [10:12] person of any party is like, wait, how does this make us safer? No, this imperils us. It impoverishes [10:17] us. It diminishes our power, makes us more vulnerable, obviously. And I said this to Trump, and he didn't [10:23] disagree, but he did it anyway. He didn't disagree, but he did it anyway. You know, I'm going to get back to [10:29] that. I'm going to get back to the Islamic contingent about it, but I want to go back to the Jewish [10:33] contingent in this regard. I want to, because you made it a point to point out, you don't engage [10:40] in anti-Semitism. You don't support it. You don't believe it. You don't believe you're a part of it, [10:43] et cetera, et cetera. When people talk about some of the things that you've said, I want some [10:47] controversial comments that you've made in regards to the Gaza war. You called Israel's actions [10:51] genocide, ethnic cleansing, murder of thousands of children, and a land grab. You described it as [10:57] losing morality, treating average, quote, like animals or subhumans, end quote, and incompatible [11:03] with Western civilization values. You visited Gaza refugees and highlighted child casualties. [11:09] There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, by the way. But I would ask you- [11:12] No, that sounds like Nazi behavior, like worrying about children who are injured. [11:17] Exactly. First of all, everything you just listed- [11:19] That's why people say that. I say, what are y'all talking about? I'm sorry. Go ahead. [11:22] Go ahead. I apologize. Go ahead. [11:23] It's a slander. Look, if you're committing genocide, which Israel currently is in Gaza, [11:29] and genocide is, you know, we have an international definition of it, which everyone signed on to up [11:34] until about 20 minutes until Israel started committing it, and it is the systematic effort [11:38] by government to eliminate a people. And I don't have to guess about this because Israeli cabinet [11:42] ministers and the prime minister of Israel repeatedly have said that's their goal. They [11:47] describe the Palestinians as Amalek. I'll refer you to the Old Testament or Hebrew scriptures, [11:52] whatever you want to call it, our Bible and theirs, in which Amalek is the Amalekites. And [11:57] that's the group that God tells the ancient Hebrews to kill, all of them, including their [12:02] children, their babies, and their livestock. And the prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, [12:06] has used this phrase multiple times, not just randomly once, again and again and again in [12:11] speeches. And so have his cabinet ministers, the finance minister, the defense minister. [12:14] They've all said, the point is, we have to kill all these people and drive them out. Well, [12:18] that is the definition of genocide. Don't take my word for it. Israeli human rights [12:22] groups are calling it genocide. The rest of the world is calling it genocide. The [12:26] prime minister has been indicted in international court for genocide. There's no debate about [12:30] whether it's genocide. The debate is, why are we going along with this and allowing people [12:34] who are committing genocide to give us moral lectures? Like, I'm not the criminal for noticing [12:39] what you're doing. And I'm not going to take a moral lecture from Adolf Eichmann. Why would [12:43] I? This is crazy. And by the way, future generations will realize that it's crazy. So crazy, it's going [12:48] to be hard to believe it happened. So what was, how would you answer the question [12:53] if somebody were to ask Tucker Carlson? Is your issue with the Jewish community? Is it [12:58] with Israel? Is it specifically with Benjamin Netanyahu? I mean, who's the issue with, because [13:03] that's somebody that you, you've described as pure evil. It's not a mystery. I've said it [13:08] out loud. By the way, you know, I have, I hate even to go there because it's so low. It's [13:14] playing their game. But it's also a fact that I have a lot of Jewish friends and Jewish guests [13:20] on the show making exactly the same points. The idea that the government of Benjamin Netanyahu [13:25] speaks for all Jews on planet Earth is a lie. It's a lie that's going to do grave damage to [13:30] Jews. I don't know why people go along with this. If some lunatic stood up, some lunatic white [13:35] persons that I speak for all whites, I would say, you don't speak for me. If Louis Farrakhan [13:39] stands up and says, I speak for all black people, I hope you're like, no, not for me. [13:43] Like this idea that some politician in a foreign country gets to speak for global Jewry is insane. [13:49] I'm not playing along with it. But here's the point. They are committing genocide. The lessons [13:54] that I learned as, I'm 57, as a child growing up in America, were really clear. Genocide is always [14:00] wrong. The Nazis did it. That's why we don't like the Nazis. The Hutu [14:05] in Rwanda did it. I mean, the Turks did it. The Ottoman Turks did it against the Armenians. [14:10] It's always wrong. And the person committing genocide doesn't get to attack me on moral [14:16] grounds for pointing it out. This is crazy. And everyone else sees it. Only in the United [14:20] States are we like, well, are you an anti-Semite because you don't like genocide? No, I'm a human [14:25] being. I'm against it when it was aimed at Jews. I'm against it when Bibi Netanyahu does it. I'm [14:29] against it when the Hutus do it. I'm just against it because it's immoral. And if we can't say [14:33] that genocide is immoral, where does that leave us? And why are we paying for this? [14:37] That's the other thing. It's not just some academic, like, are you for genocide? Well, [14:41] obviously, I'm opposed. I'm opposed to killing innocents always, including bombing girl schools [14:45] in Iran. As most decent people should be against killing innocents without question. [14:49] Of all decent people. But if you're doing that, again, I'm not taking a moral lecture from [14:55] someone who's committing genocide. And none of us should. And through aggression and intimidation, [15:00] they've scared the living crap out of everyone in the American media, apparently including [15:05] you, into this place where it's like, oh, can you do that? [15:07] What do you mean apparently including me? Why is it including me? I'm just asking you [15:11] questions. I'll tell you why. Because the fact you're asking it when the facts about what [15:16] the Israeli government have done in Gaza are transparent, widely known, provable, you can [15:22] use only Israeli sources for those facts and still arrive at the same conclusion Israelis [15:26] I've arrived at. Tucker Carlson, let me put you on pause for one second when it comes to [15:32] me, sir. Most people in my audience may not have heard what you had to say. I want them [15:39] to hear from you. So I'm just asking. Oh, no, no. Nobody's got me hoodwinked. I'm literally [15:44] asking because I literally want to hear. Like, there's several things that you may have brought [15:48] up that I may not have heard. I may be hearing you say for the first time because I don't get [15:51] a chance to watch you all the time. That's all it is. I want you to know that. [15:55] Crazy. No, but it's not just me. I mean, by the way, I should say I spent like 35 years [16:00] never saying anything about Israel. OK, so it's not like I'm some courageous voice who's [16:03] bringing this to the world's attention. This has been going on for a very long time, since [16:07] 1948 to varying degrees. And for the last three years, it's been going on at a pace that's [16:14] impossible to ignore. And only in the United States, I just want to say it again, only in [16:18] the United States and Israel is this not a majority view widely known by everybody. They've [16:24] killed tens of thousands of children. They have killed scores of journalists, over 100 journalists. [16:29] They bombed churches and hospitals. They bombed and destroyed all civilian infrastructure. And [16:34] they're driving people out and they're saying it. They're saying it out loud. What? And because [16:38] of YouTube, we can actually watch this now. And it's like, oh, there's an Israeli official [16:42] saying we're going to put them in concentration camps. And it's like the United States could stop [16:46] this. It's the only country on the planet that could stop it because we're paying for it. [16:49] And it's I'm not even mad at the Israelis. I think they've gone insane. I think they will [16:54] be punished for what they're doing in the same way the Germans were punished for what they did [16:57] in exactly the same way. Because are you talking about the government or are you talking about [17:01] the people? Are you talking about the government? I'm talking about the people. I'm talking about [17:04] I'll be specific. I'm talking about the government ministers who ordered this. I'm talking about [17:10] the people who carried it out, the good Israelis who were committing genocide. And in some sense, [17:15] they're victims as well. And I feel sorry for all of them because you can't lie your way out of [17:21] 75,000 dead bodies. OK, you just can't. There's no getting around that. You did it. Everyone saw [17:27] you do it. So they're going to be punished. I'm outraged at American officials for paying for this [17:33] and for attacking anybody who says, wait a second, why are we paying for genocide? I thought we were [17:37] against genocide. We have got a Holocaust museum in my town that says genocide is bad. Is it not bad [17:42] now? And they're like, shut up, Nazi. It's like, no, no, I'm against the Nazis because I'm against [17:47] genocide. But here you're committing it. So I'm against what you're doing. This is, it doesn't. [17:52] Is this about just Trump or is it about specific individuals within his administration that has [17:58] an alarming level of influence that we need to know about as well? [18:04] So that's like a question I've thought so much about. In other words, who was pushing Trump to do [18:08] something that's insane? There you go. There you go. Right. And, you know, obviously Rubio, [18:13] the secretary of state is for it, obviously. I don't think he was pushing that. I mean, [18:18] I don't work there, so I was there a lot, but I'm certainly not an employee and never have been. So [18:22] there's a lot I miss. I don't, I can't really answer the question. But my sense is that no one [18:27] inside the White House was like, you know, pushing Trump's arm behind his back and saying, [18:32] you've got to regime change Iran. I think it came from the outside. I think it came from outside [18:36] advisors and donors. Miriam Adelson, the widow of Sheldon Adelson, the gambling magnet. I think it came [18:42] from Rupert Murdoch, the owner of Fox and the Wall Street Journal and New York Post, who called all [18:46] the time demanding this. I think it was people out. That's what I think. And I think there might [18:51] also be other reasons that he did this. Joe Kent, who ran the National Counterterrorism Center, said [18:56] out loud when he resigned, and he would know, that he believed the Butler shooting was connected to [19:01] Trump's move against Iran. Now, look, I can't prove that. But here's one of our top Intel officials [19:08] making that claim. Where's the New York Times following up on that? Not one American news [19:13] organization has made any attempt to find out what the hell this was, because they all support it. [19:16] They all support it. They support this war. And that's why there has been no mass movement against [19:21] it. People are like, oh, I'm against the war. Really? Well, where are the protests? I remember the Iraq [19:26] war. I was there, both in Washington and Iraq. There were massive protests. Now, at the time, [19:30] I was shilling for the Trump administration, I mean, for the Bush administration, be like, no, [19:34] it's a good idea to invade Iraq. I was completely wrong. And I've been humiliated ever since. [19:37] But I did notice that the other side had demonstrations. Where are those demonstrations [19:42] now? There are none because both parties are in favor of this. That's why. [19:46] Do you believe that this has been an impeachable offense by the president of the United States? [19:52] And if so, what do you believe should happen to him in regards to these actions that he has taken? [19:58] I think this is the one thing that Trump has done that he will never be impeached for because [20:02] Democrats support it. Both parties supported regime change in Iran because both parties have the same [20:08] paymasters and the same donors who are demanding loyalty to a foreign country, the same APAC [20:15] donations that, like, think like 90 percent of the entire Congress takes money from a foreign lobby, [20:21] unregistered foreign lobby. That's bonkers. If this were Liechtenstein or Congo bribing 90 percent of [20:27] our lawmakers to tow the Liechtenstein or Congo line, I'd be totally opposed to it. It doesn't make me [20:32] anti-Congolese or anti-Lichtensteinian. I'm not a racist for thinking that. I'm an American who wants [20:37] my lawmakers to vote on behalf of my country. Like, it's that simple. It's literally that simple. And [20:42] everybody sees it except the American media, which lies because it's controlled, and American [20:47] lawmakers, politicians who are paid to lie. But like now the consequences of it are getting so crazy. [20:55] We're running out of oil. Trump said that last month. We're weeks away from draining the SPR. [20:59] We have no cushion on oil. And so at some point, they're manipulating markets now. Obviously, [21:05] the markets are totally manipulated. But at some point, supply and demand does become real. And if [21:10] you don't have enough oil, the price goes up. And when the price goes up, so does the price of [21:13] everything. And you get inflation. And people get really poor. And that's gonna happen. [21:19] Tucker Carlson right here with Stephen A., straight shooter with yours truly. I'm wondering right now, [21:24] your life, I mean, you've stated, correct me if I'm wrong, that you voted Republican pretty much all [21:29] your life, that you've disassociated or disconnected from the Republican Party, but it's not like you're [21:34] about to vote for the Democrats either. I'm wondering how you feel right now as somebody [21:40] who's confessed to being so wrong about the president, and more specifically, what I'm [21:45] really wondering about with what Trump is doing. That's not something Obama did. It's not something [21:51] that, that, that, uh, that, uh, George W. Bush did. I'm wondering, this president decided to take [22:01] this action. Where are you now in terms of viewing him compared to the Democrats? In light of the fact [22:07] this is not something that they've done, but yet it's something that he has done. [22:12] Well, it's something to some extent all American presidents have done since John F. Kennedy was [22:16] murdered, which is follow the lead of a foreign country, Israel. So George W. Bush did do it. [22:21] He took us into a regime change war against Iraq at the urging of Benjamin Netanyahu. I was there. [22:27] So that's why we did that. That's true. Joe Biden funded the genocide of Gaza. And by the way, [22:33] there, to his credit, you know, there are a lot of people in the Democratic Party who were very mad [22:36] about that and attacked Biden for that. Good for them. I didn't say a word. I was kind of not even [22:42] aware it was happening, but that was happening and they deserve credit for being honest and decent [22:46] enough to oppose genocide. So every president has been bossed around by this tiny country. Bill Clinton got [22:51] blackmailed by Israel over Monica Lewinsky. They had a tape of him having phone sex on Air Force [22:56] One with Monica Lewinsky, and they told him they had it and said they were going to release it unless [23:00] he took their side in the Y River negotiation. So like this has been going on a long time, but Trump [23:06] just did something that's like quantum levels crazier and more destructive to the U.S., which is this war. [23:13] How do you get out of this war? I don't see and no one I know, including people who work at the White [23:17] House and at the Pentagon. If you ask that question, like, how do we get out of this? They have no idea. [23:23] So it's, I'm really worried about it. I know I'm hated and called a Nazi for being against it, but it's bad [23:29] enough that it's worth it to say it, I think. [23:32] Tucker Carlson, in 2021, you probably wrote that you hated Trump passionately. You later supported him in 2024. [23:39] So here's the question. Why should listeners see this latest break as principle rather than another pivot [23:45] on your side, on your part? How do you, how do you answer that? Well, I've had many, many pivots and [23:51] I've already explained two of them. You know, I was wrong. Yes, you have. Because I'm wrong a lot, [23:55] you know, I guess. I mean, I, I flatter myself and say I'm not wrong a lot, but I certainly am wrong [24:00] sometimes and wrong on big things. I was wrong on Trump and I was wrong on the Iraq war and I'm sure [24:05] a million other things. But anyway, I mean, I don't know what to say. People can judge whether I'm sincere [24:11] or not. I don't really know what I'm getting out of this, actually. I've gotten really nothing [24:15] out of any of it. And, um, I'm not going to whine and say I've lost a lot, but some, [24:20] including friendship. So I don't really know what my motive would be, but I, if I can't convince [24:24] people, I can't, but I'm just telling you, I happened to be there and pretty close and saw a [24:30] lot of stuff that is like so bad for this country. It's such a total betrayal. Now I would just say [24:35] quickly that, yeah, I got mad at Trump in a private text message, which Fox stole from me and sent to the [24:41] New York Times. Like that's a whole nother story, kind of crazy. But, uh, but I wrote that to one [24:45] of my producers because Trump had made me mad in 2001 right after the election. Okay. I get, you [24:51] know, I've been mad at people I love, but I decided that Trump was the option to the Republican [24:57] leadership and the Democratic leadership. He wasn't a Republican. He was a challenge to the [25:01] Republicans. He came from outside the system. This was how I thought of it. And as they tried to put [25:05] him in jail and shoot him and all this stuff, I was like, see, it's totally real. You know, [25:09] it's not a fake thing. I mean, they're trying to put him in jail. That's what I thought. And I [25:13] still kind of think that, but somewhere along the line, after that Butler shooting in Pennsylvania [25:17] in July of 2024, he changed like 180 degrees and started doing things that he ran against doing. [25:25] And so like, you tell me what that is. I don't know. I don't think Trump's a great actor. I don't [25:30] think he was lying before. I think he, something changed him. Something changed for him after the [25:35] Butler shooting. You just think it's just that simple. You, and you don't have no idea what it [25:40] is. Well, I don't know if it's that simple. Okay. But you have no idea what it is. I don't know if [25:43] anything's simple. Well, I'll tell you what I do know. No, I don't. I just to be clear, I don't [25:48] know. And if I did, I would say it instantly. I know that Trump shut down the investigation into [25:52] the Butler shooting. It doesn't make any sense. There's a lot of material that the FBI gathered [25:56] into Thomas Crooks, who he was talking to on his burner phone, who he was talking to online, [26:01] who he trained with at the range. They have tape of that. They've not released any of it. And I [26:05] pushed them really hard. The FBI director, the deputy director, the guy in charge of the [26:09] investigator, I talked to them all. Why can't we see this information? And they wouldn't answer [26:14] the question. It turns out Trump told them not to release it, to shut down the investigation. [26:18] He's a lone gunman. He's dead. We don't need to know anymore. Okay. Then why can't I see the [26:21] information that you gathered? Did he have contact with law enforcement before the shooting? [26:25] Why can't you answer that question? And instead, they yelled at me and called me names. The Trump [26:29] people did. And I was like, if that's your response, then I think, like, I've got a bunch of kids. [26:34] And if I say, hey, what are you doing? And they're like, shut up, racist. I'm like, I'm pretty sure [26:38] you're doing something wrong then, if you're attacking me for asking. Like, that's just a [26:41] tell. And so that's all I know. But I can't think of a non-sinister reason for Trump to shut down an [26:50] investigation into his own attempted murder. Maybe you can, but I can't. I think it's very, I think [26:54] it's one of the weirdest things I've ever seen in my life. And I know that at that moment, [26:58] he started assembling, right after that, he started assembling his transition team. And I was [27:04] really close to that. I knew everyone on it. And all of a sudden, these people are like, wait a [27:08] second, would this guy, why would we appoint John Ratcliffe to CIA when he's the opposite of what [27:14] you're running on? Like, John Ratcliffe is the opposite of what you're promising voters. Why would [27:18] you do that? And I noticed this stuff and I was like, this is very odd. But I didn't kind of put it [27:22] together because I'm not a genius. And then by the time we got to Iran, I was like, oh, wait a second. [27:28] I think this whole thing's been in progress for a long time. And the point is not to eliminate [27:31] Iran's nuclear program. Nobody cares. The point is to reshuffle the deck globally and to diminish [27:39] the Gulf states, to get the United States out of the Middle East, I think to end the petrodollar, [27:43] to crush Europe. Like, there are big things going on. And the rest of us are so caught up in whatever [27:47] BS crap the media is putting on here, we don't see it. But I'm just telling you, in five years, [27:52] it's going to be a different world. I hope a better world, but it's going to be a different world. [27:56] You've got a lot of people connected with Israel. You've got a lot of people who look at Benjamin [28:03] Netanyahu and let's just say they don't view him the way that you do. They point to your [28:07] relationships in the Middle East. They talk about Qatar. They talk about you having a home in Doha, [28:13] stuff like that. Talk about that for a second. Whatever level of legitimacy may come attached to [28:20] those who are throwing that out. I hate defending myself. These are people who are taking money and [28:26] direction from a foreign government accusing me of the same. And the truth is, I don't have a home [28:32] in Doha. I don't own anything in Doha. I've never taken money from the Qataris or any other government. [28:38] I don't even have a bank loan. I have no investors. I have no debt. My opinions, you may not like them, [28:43] but they're mine because I have no control over me at all. And I own my company with my college [28:49] roommate. So that's the extent of my financial life. It's, you know, whatever. But you know what? [28:55] I would say this. Qatar, I love Qatar. I really like Qatar. And the Israelis like Qatar too, which is [29:02] why Benjamin Netanyahu asked the Qatari government to send money to Hamas. I'm not guessing. This is, [29:08] you can look it up. So it was actually Netanyahu who asked Qatar to send money to Hamas. Now they're [29:13] like attacking the Qataris for being a tool of Hamas. The whole thing is so dishonest. I can't [29:17] deal with it. But even if I were like being bribed by Qatar to, I don't know what Qatar bribes people [29:23] to do. Even if that were true, you'd still have to contend with like, well, I don't know. Is what [29:27] he's saying true? Is the Iran war going well? Is it in America's interest? Did the administration [29:33] say we're following Israel? They did. Is genocide being committed in Gaza? Of course, objectively. [29:39] The numbers are there. Go on Wikipedia. And so it's like, it doesn't even matter. Yeah, [29:44] they attack me as a person. I'm a bad person. I'm a Nazi. Okay. Well, I'm not at all. But even [29:49] if I were, it wouldn't change the fact that you're committing genocide and this war is hurting my [29:54] country. Like, right? So since the country is so hurt and we've got a two party, a binary system, [30:01] Democrats, Republicans, you are not for either side. Obviously, you've been talking about a third [30:07] party, but your thoughts about that at this particular moment in time, is that even remotely [30:13] plausible? And if so, I mean, where do we go from here, Tucker Carlson, based on everything [30:19] you're telling us about the state of this country right now and how both parties are a bit shady, [30:26] to say the least? Where do we go from here? Well, it's not even that they're, yeah, they're [30:31] totally shady, of course, but they're in agreement on the big issues. And the big issues, just to [30:37] restate are the economy and foreign policy. That's where all the money is spent. How do we [30:41] apportion the spoils in our system? Like who gets rich in America? That's the economy. And foreign [30:47] policy is who do we bomb? Where do we send money? We have a military that consumes like 80% of our [30:53] discretionary budget. Okay. It's $1.5 trillion a year in funding. So what we do with the military [30:58] really, really matters. The trans stuff, I think it's meaningful. It's crazy, but that's not the [31:04] pressing issue. The parties disagree on trans. Ooh, I'm for trans. You're against trans. Okay, [31:09] great. But on the big questions, they're aligned. They are on the same page. Chuck Schumer agrees [31:14] with Donald Trump and Trump with Schumer on the tax code. Whatever they say, they agree on the tax [31:20] code and they agree on the Iran war. So all I'm saying is it'd be nice to have an option. Like [31:25] someone should have a party for like the rest of us because most Americans don't agree with the tax [31:29] code and don't agree with the Iran war. So where's their representation? Now, what am I going to do [31:34] about it? I was waiting for you to run. So a lot of us are just kind of sitting here being like, [31:38] where's Stephen A? Is he getting in the race? But if you don't get in, it's like there just should be [31:42] a real option because otherwise it's not democracy. It's an oligarchy posing, like painted. It's actually [31:50] like a trans oligarchy. It's like an oligarchy pretending. No, I'm really, I'm a democracy. It's [31:54] got like big red lipstick misapplied and a wig. It's like, it's too fake. I can't deal with it. [31:59] So let's play the game, Tucker Carlson. If not me, somebody else or me, if I'm running for president [32:05] or somebody like me is running for president, what does Tucker Carlson want from the candidate [32:10] himself that could end up in the presidency? What would you want from us that you haven't gotten [32:16] from either party? I'd want what everyone wants from his or her leaders, what kids want from their [32:24] dads, what employees want from their bosses, what soldiers want from officers, which is love, [32:28] concern. That's it. I mean, a lot of these problems are complicated, but you're never going to fix [32:34] them unless you begin with a desire to help and uplift the people you're in charge of. It's that [32:40] simple. And if you're having wars with Iran or letting 100,000 Americans die of drug ODs and doing [32:45] nothing about the drug cartels, it's pretty obvious you don't care about Americans. And so there are lots [32:51] of potential solutions to these problems, and I'm happy to debate them. But we can't even get there [32:56] until we get leaders who sincerely care about their people. And we don't have that. It's obvious. [33:01] It couldn't be more obvious. Oh, we're going to let the Epstein files become public. No, we're not. [33:06] Shut up. Stop asking. Shut up, conspiracy theorist. It's like, what? You obviously hate me. You have [33:11] contempt for me. And they do. And I would know since I spent my life around them. I'm just talking [33:16] about Trump. I mean, our leadership class. So we can't have that. We need people who have a sincere [33:20] love, not of the country, but of the people who live in the country, the citizenry, the Americans. [33:26] And we don't have that. And so that's really the first thing I'm looking for. It's not some magic. [33:31] How do you fix Social Security? I don't even know. You know, I don't know. It's too complicated. How [33:35] do you fix schools? I have some ideas, but no one is even trying. Education in America is a freaking [33:41] joke. Like, it's a joke. You can't send your kids to a public school in a big city or even in a small [33:47] city. They're terrible. And only people have no choice to do it. Is there an effort to fix that? [33:52] No, none. Zero. So, like, all I want is to see that someone cares. And most people I know feel [33:59] that way. Like, they're sort of post-ideology. I don't know the right answer, but I know you don't [34:03] care at all about finding it. And so up yours. Get out of here. Leave. That's how I feel. [34:09] Listen, I can't deny what you're saying, but the flip side to it is that you're simplifying it. One [34:14] would easily argue. You know, when people have heard you talk in the past, whether it's about [34:17] immigration, whether it's about races, about demographics in this country or whatever, [34:22] they may not share your point of view. A matter of fact, some people may be put off by some of [34:26] the things that have been put out there about you. But again, we don't know how accurate it is. [34:32] I guess what I'm asking you is, when you think about this country, what's your ideal of a perfect [34:37] America? Because a lot of times, I got to tell you, I'm not going to say you, because I haven't seen [34:41] much of you, even though I used to try to watch you on Fox News a lot more than I see you right now [34:47] on YouTube and stuff like that. I'm just a busy guy talking. What can I say? But when people talk [34:52] about you, they feel like, listen, nationalist point of view, America first, last, and only, [34:59] for the most part, until the latest stuff with Israel has come about. And there's a lot of folks [35:05] demographically in this country that wonder whether or not you vibe and your thinking, [35:10] your vision for this country vibes with what they would like for this country. Talk about that [35:15] for a second here. I would. I would say nationalist America first. I mean, there's literally no other [35:22] acceptable way to run a country. So if I've got kids, and I'm like, I like the neighbor's kids more [35:28] than my own, I'm a bad father. Okay. So the only justifiable position in a democracy is put the [35:37] country first. Like, what's the point? Who owns the country? Well, its citizens own the country. [35:41] Therefore, this whole enterprise, this whole thing is being done on their behalf. So if I don't put my [35:46] own country first, I put another country first, by definition, I'm committing treason, which they [35:50] are. So it's not about Israel. Once again, it could be Uruguay. It doesn't matter. You have to protect [35:56] your people. Nobody disagrees with that, by the way. As for the race stuff, there has been this [36:01] concerted effort to convince non-whites that whites are the problem. Whites are bad. Whiteness is bad. [36:06] We hate whites. And to foment hatred between the races. Now, why have they tried to do that? Why [36:13] would you ever do that? Which they have definitely done at, you know, kind of scale for 60 years. Well, [36:19] because when you're busy hating your neighbor on the basis of his race, they're busy looting your [36:24] country, which they have done. So it's a diversion tactic. And the truth is, if you say what I just [36:30] said to the majority of Americans of any color, they're like, well, of course that's right. Like, [36:34] what's the purpose of having in government if it's not there to help you? Like, what? Then why do we [36:37] have it? It's to help Bibi? Like, what are you even talking about? Of course you're a [36:42] nationalist. Of course you're in America first and only. It doesn't mean you hate other [36:46] countries. Like, I'm not for bombing other countries most of the time unless they're [36:50] going to, unless they're bombing us. So like, I'm not against other countries. And by the [36:53] way, I've been to almost every country on the planet and I like them all. So it's not [36:57] that. It's like, why do you have a government? It's to look out for you and your [37:01] interest. That's why you pay taxes. This whole conversation is like bonkers. But the race [37:05] stuff is the most upsetting. And what you see when you really drill down, because it [37:10] divides people permanently. They've spent, the Democratic Party has spent 60 years [37:15] telling non-white voters that whites are the problem and that whites hate them [37:18] because they're not white. That's a freaking lie, dude. That's a lie. And a lot of black [37:23] people believe it. But Tucker, as a black man, what about from an historical [37:28] perspective, looking at slavery, looking at Jim Crow laws, looking at the iniquitous acts [37:33] of a white populace that existed in this country and simply acknowledging, look, that [37:38] happened, that existed, and we could never come close to letting something like that [37:43] happen again, policy or otherwise. What's wrong with doing that? [37:47] Well, it is happening again. [37:48] Is that divisive? [37:49] No, no, no. What I mean is, is it divisive? [37:51] It is happening again. [37:51] Is it divisive? Yeah. Jim Crow is happening again at a larger scale. [37:57] We have more racial quotas now against whites than we ever had against blacks in the South [38:03] and in federal contracting, in college admissions, in hiring, in private companies and public [38:08] companies. It's like, how about the government treats everybody the same? That's the lesson [38:12] of the civil rights movement. Let's treat everyone the same. [38:15] Stay right there. What if I said to you, Tucker, you got a 50-yard head start? And guess what? [38:21] You've been operating at a 50-yard head start for a lengthy period of time. And in order [38:26] to equal the playing field, I've got to get a head start to be able to catch up to you. [38:31] Because essentially, that's what you have a black populace or a minority populace in [38:35] this country articulating to some degree anyway. I understand your point in terms of saying [38:40] two wrongs don't make a right. I'm saying two wrongs don't make a right. I get that part. [38:45] But if you're talking about, see, there's a lot of folks within this country that are of that [38:51] mindset. And I respectfully disagree, but the key word is respectfully because I understand where [38:54] you're coming from. I'm just simply saying, if you've been operating as a society, as a community, [39:01] with a head start for a lengthy period of time, how is the playing field ever supposed to be [39:06] equaled if we were never given a come up? I mean, at some point in time, that premise has to be [39:12] addressed. Does it not? Right. I mean, look, I would say, I think it's really important to [39:18] articulate why racial discrimination is bad. And because it's bad, it's always bad, no matter who [39:25] commits it. Period. Okay. Period. It's inherently bad to judge people and to punish people on the [39:32] basis of their skin color. Do you agree with that? I agree with that. I agree with that. [39:36] Oh, you do agree with that. I totally agree. [39:39] I'm not disagreeing. I'm simply pointing out that, again, if the objective is to have a fair [39:48] and equitable society for all, how is that supposed to be accomplished if folks are operating from [39:54] behind the eight ball because of years of laws and policies and things that subjugated a community [40:00] in this country? How is that supposed to ever happen? I think that people whose ancestors were [40:05] dragged here against their will in slavery are at a disadvantage. However, I think it's a lot more [40:13] complicated than you're saying. I think that that does hurt people generationally. Clearly it does. [40:21] However, the idea that it's all whites are racist, then you tell me why whites, and you can check the [40:27] Department of Labor stats on this if you want. They're on the internet. Whites are like, I don't know, fifth [40:31] or sixth for income in the United States. It's not white people, not the rich people. Nigerians, [40:36] your average Nigerian in the United States makes more than your average white. So tell me if there's [40:41] this like system. So I guess what I'm also saying is that like this country has become so genuinely [40:46] diverse. Like when I was a kid, it was black people, white people, some Hispanics, very few [40:50] Asians and really no one else. And the black people, their families have been here as long as mine, [40:54] hundreds of years. I mean, their families were dragged here in colonial times, some of them. [40:58] So that was a different picture than what we're looking at now. Now we're going to get to a place [41:02] by the time in a couple more decades where the majority of black people in the United States are [41:07] not the descendant of American slaves. So then it's like it's so do we owe affirmative action to [41:12] an Eritrean when he arrives on a visa program? I don't think so. So like this whole thing is nuts, [41:17] actually. So the only solution is to say slavery is always wrong. Discrimination on the basis of race [41:24] is always wrong. And so let's stop doing it because it's wrong. It'd be like saying, and they do say it, [41:28] well, you know, a lot of people who survived the Nazi genocide moved to Israel and their [41:33] grandchildren, you know, have a right to be upset about that. Okay, got it. But those same people [41:39] are committing genocide. So it was wrong when it happened to their grandparents. It's wrong when [41:42] they're doing it because it's just wrong. There are universal principles that if we don't defend, [41:47] we will wind up in the world that we left when we started this country, which is the powerful people [41:52] get to do whatever they want and everyone else has to just deal with it. And I don't want to live in that [41:56] country. I agree with you when you say there's universal principles that we should just uphold [42:01] and that obviously, you know, there are things that are iniquitous acts that we should absolutely [42:05] speak against no matter who it's for or against. Absolutely. I'm totally with you. [42:08] Exactly. The flip side to it, however, is that one could easily also argue that that lets off the [42:15] hook those who have benefited and have positioned themselves to be in positions of power and influence [42:23] where they can subjugate a vast majority of folks in our society as we've witnessed people doing for [42:29] decades upon decades. You can make the argument that they're already at an advantage and they're [42:34] getting left off the hook by doing exactly what Tucker Carlson suggests because what you want to do is [42:39] start with a clean slate and just erase all that has happened. I don't mean literally erase it from [42:44] the mind's eye. I'm just talking about starting from scratch and going forward when we can never [42:49] start from scratch going forward. Tucker Carlson, you know that. But yeah, I mean, look, this has been [42:55] going on for over 60 years. I don't think it's actually helped that much. It's made people hate [42:59] each other, but it's also obscuring the true crisis in the country, which has nothing to do with race [43:06] and has to do with economics and the people benefiting from the private equity scams and the crypto scams [43:11] and all the other scams underway in the American economy. We don't really produce anything. We just [43:15] lend money at high interest, sell real estate again and again. Those people are getting richer [43:20] than everyone else, the billionaire class, and they don't want to deal with questions about how [43:25] exactly this works. Why are they paying half the taxes that you're paying as a wage earner? Like, [43:29] I don't really get that. And they don't want to have to defend it. So instead, they're like, [43:33] the real problem is race. And these whites are just bad. And they've taken all the stuff. Well, [43:38] actually, if you look at the numbers, that's insane. One of the biggest groups of poor people in this [43:43] country is white. Are they privileged? I don't think they are. So it's not about race. We should [43:49] treat all American citizens equally. That's the whole point of the civil rights movement. That's [43:54] the whole point of the constitution. And we're not. And we should. And then just say, look, it's not [43:58] about ignoring the crimes of the past, which we should not do. We should never lie about anything. [44:03] It's just about being honest about what's actually happening. And the real problems [44:08] stem from the way our tax code is structured. And most people don't even think about it because no one [44:13] in the media ever talks about it. It's like, really? So if I invest money, I pay half the tax [44:18] rate as if I go to work. So are we saying that it's twice as virtuous to invest or to get inherited [44:24] money as it is to have a job? That's what we are saying. Because we tax things we want to discourage. [44:29] That's why cigarettes are expensive. So like, are you really going to say with a straight face that [44:33] you're like twice as good a person because you inherited money as I am because I go to work every day? [44:39] Because that's what we're saying. And so in a normal country, you just like have a revolution. [44:43] People are like, I'm not putting up with this. But in our country, because our every conversation [44:46] is controlled by the media filter, we don't even know what's happening. And so people are like, [44:50] well, my life sucks. It must be the whites or some whites are like, it must be the blacks or whatever. [44:55] It's like, this is racial foment. This is racial conflict, which is created by the people who are [45:02] taking all the money. Any whether anyone agrees or disagrees with you, I think it was especially me [45:07] sitting here talking to you. I really, really appreciate the fact that you're willing to tackle any issue. [45:11] And I'm thankful for that. So thank you for the conversation. [45:14] Let me ask you this, just a few more questions before I let you go. [45:18] I'm thinking about the Nick Fuentes interview, for example. And I wanted to transition a little [45:23] bit to this because, you know, I'm wondering about where the line is between exposing extremism [45:31] and normalizing it when you have somebody like him that you had on your show. I remember people [45:37] were criticizing you. I didn't watch the interview. I saw, you know, clips of it. But I didn't watch [45:42] the whole interview in its entirety. And I remember people accusing you of being quite soft on them, [45:47] even though I can't imagine you being that guy. But that's what they were accusing you of. [45:50] And they were saying stuff like that. But we know some of the things that people have felt he said, [45:55] and some of the positions that he has taken. From a generic perspective, extremism compared to [46:01] normalization. Where does Tucker Carlson draw that line in the sand, particularly considering [46:08] the position that you're in now and the kind of influence you wield? [46:11] I think it's really important not to normalize extremism and to call it out by name. And to say, [46:20] to just frame this correctly, like, what you're saying is crazy and extreme. I think it's super important [46:25] to say that, because otherwise it's like, oh, no, this is normal. And I think one of the most extreme [46:29] human beings I've ever met in my entire life was Lindsey Graham. And I would say maybe the second [46:33] most extreme I've ever met is Ted Cruz, both US senators. Lindsey Graham, unfortunately, [46:37] passed away recently. Ted Cruz still represents Texas. These are people who have called for [46:41] murdering innocents at scale, bombing people who did nothing wrong, killing kids, and have done that [46:48] for like decades, who have openly called for the US government and American citizens to be more loyal [46:55] to a foreign country than to their own, who have called for banning Americans' right to criticize [47:01] a foreign country, eliminating free speech on behalf of a foreign nation. You can criticize [47:05] your own country. Totally fine. You're not going to criticize a foreign country. That's so crazy [47:09] that I can hardly believe it's happening. And nobody says it. So you'll go and you'll interview [47:13] Lindsey Graham or I interviewed Ted Cruz last year. And people are like, oh, no one is like, [47:18] I can't believe you're sitting with that wacko extremist Ted Cruz, who's literally called for [47:23] murdering people. And by the way, has helped murder people. He's the United States Senator. [47:27] He's not a podcaster. He votes for things. He appropriates money. That guy has blood on his [47:32] hands, the blood of countless innocents, but it's totally cool to sit with him. How does that work? [47:37] I don't understand. Not one person has ever said, I can't believe you sat across from Ted Cruz. [47:42] He's a murderer. It's true. But because we're so controlled. So you're calling a senator. Hold on, [47:50] hold on, Tucker. These are political officials you have known, just like you've known Trump. [47:54] You've known a lot of guys on Capitol Hill. You've interviewed a lot of them. You've talked [47:58] to a lot of them. You used to be on Fox News with your top rated show at 8 p.m. after you [48:02] succeeded Bill O'Reilly. Used to talk to these folks all the time. And now here you are on this [48:07] show. You're calling, you're calling them a murder. You're calling a guy like Senator Ted Cruz [48:13] a murderer. Well, it's true. Ted Cruz is calling for the killing of innocents and funding it. [48:19] And so what I'm actually calling for is not calling out poor Ted Cruz who's suffering is [48:23] already living in hell. And I'm not even mad at Ted Cruz. I want to awaken people to a real moral [48:30] framework. So you have people who say ugly things and great. You know, that happens everywhere. I'm [48:36] against saying ugly things. I try not to. I have. I try not to do that. But saying ugly things. [48:40] But you just did. That's a very ugly thing to say, Tucker. [48:42] It's not an ugly thing. It's true. [48:44] To call a senator. It's an ugly thing to say, Tucker. [48:47] First of all, I don't. I don't. Because he is a senator, it actually matters. It's not ugly. [48:52] It's a fact. Ted Cruz has called for killing innocents. He's done it to me many, many, many [48:57] times. Just bomb them. Just bomb the whole city. Just blow them up. What? There are people, [49:02] thousands, millions of people who live there who did nothing wrong. They have no role in this. [49:06] They have no role in a nuclear program. They're just going to work. They're little kids. That's [49:10] crazy. That is extremist behavior. And he has the power to make it happen. He's a U.S. senator. [49:17] So, by the way, we should get back in the media into the habit of criticizing the powerful. [49:21] And I know everyone's upset about some 27-year-old gay kid, Nick Fuentes. Oh, he says no. He thinks, [49:27] yeah, I agree, whatever. But who cares? What we should care about is when powerful people misuse [49:32] their power to hurt the innocent. And Ted Cruz is doing that. And so are a lot of other senators. [49:36] So, I'm just waiting for someone to call me and be like, I can't believe you platform Ted Cruz. [49:41] I can't believe. How do you live with this? You sleep at night? I mean, did you shake his hand? [49:47] The hand of someone who called for the murder of innocence? I can't believe you can live with [49:50] yourself. I'm waiting for that moment. It'll never come because everyone's so freaking brainwashed [49:54] that they think that whatever that little gay kid is, is the threat. [49:59] I've seen you talking to Megyn Kelly. I've heard Candace Owens' position, [50:04] and she talked about fearing for her life. Where are you right now? I'm talking about [50:10] psychologically. Do you find yourself sitting back concerned for your well-being, [50:17] considering the positions that you've taken and the, dare I say, enemies you may have provoked? [50:24] Well, I mean, where am I right now? I'm in a bunker hundreds of feet in the ground. [50:27] No, no. I don't mean where. I'm not asking where. [50:29] I don't want you to tell your location. I don't want you to tell your location. [50:33] I'm just talking. Psychologically, I'm saying, where are you right now? Candace Owens has been [50:38] on the record talking about she thinks they may try to take her out. Who knows what others like [50:44] Megyn Kelly are thinking? What is your thinking? Where are you right now? In light of the things that [50:49] you said, the conversations, and the dialogues you've provoked, and how you've incited enemies against you. [50:57] Well, from my perspective, I told the truth, and some people didn't like it because it was [51:03] inconvenient to them. But I would say all of us, you know, if you live to a certain age, and you have, [51:07] I think we're like the same age. You know, you see people you love die, and you know people who were [51:13] totally fine one day, and they're gone the next. And it's incredibly sad. It's the saddest thing. [51:18] But it's also a reminder that we're not in charge of our lives. We're not in control. And you think you [51:22] have forever. You don't. You have a certain time. You can't control that. And so every day, this is, [51:26] sounds like a bumper sticker, but it's real. Every day really is a gift. We don't treat it that way. [51:30] It's just like, oh, it's another day. No, no, it's a gift. And we don't know how many days we have [51:34] left. Not one of us does. It doesn't matter how old or young you are. Not one of us knows how many [51:39] we have left. And so I've just lived long enough to really believe that because I've seen it. I mean, [51:43] Charlie Kirk was sitting at the table I'm sitting at now, not long before he was killed. And then he's [51:47] gone. Never thought that would happen. I still feel so sad about it, as I do for all the people I've lost over [51:52] the years. I'm sure you feel the same way. So the idea that like, oh, I'm in, you know, in under [51:58] threat, but we're all under threat all the time because we don't know what the future is. So just [52:02] like stop worrying about that. You can't control it. This is, I really believe this. Stop worrying [52:07] all the time about stuff you can't control and instead focus as intently as you can on loving the [52:13] people around you, telling the truth, trying to do the right thing, knowing you're going to make a ton [52:17] of mistakes doing it. Like that's the business of life, I think. Tucker, the word love comes [52:22] associated with hope in the eyes of a lot of people. And you've used that word a lot in this [52:27] conversation that you and I have just had. I'm wondering when we think about hope, is there a [52:35] light at the end of the tunnel? Is there some hope? When I look at the Democratic Party, I look at [52:39] Governor Josh Shapiro out of Pennsylvania. I look at Governor Westmore out of Maryland. I see Governor [52:44] Gavin Newsom out of California trying to gain traction. We've heard about Bashir out of Kentucky. [52:50] We know Rubio and Vance are in a mix with the GOP. We've seen Governor DeSantis and his leadership [52:57] in Florida, even though I might have a couple of issues with him. Where are you in terms of [53:03] candidates that exist on either side of the aisle? Is there a ray of hope anywhere that you see it [53:11] based on what you've observed over the last 18 months or so? [53:16] Boy, I mean, it's just Waltz of the Pygmies. As you're reading those names, I know a lot of those [53:22] guys. I just had this image in my mind of the Wizard of Oz and all the dwarves, like we represent [53:27] the Lollipop Guild. Like it's such a collection of mediocrities. I'm sure they're not all bad people, [53:32] I'm guessing, but I'm sure they're not. But none of those people is going to save this country or [53:40] make your life bad. I mean, honestly, let's be real. I'm not sure that there are political solutions [53:45] right now. We could have better politics, people who care about us. But the truth is, our problems [53:51] are really significant. But it doesn't mean that our lives have to be barren or bleak. Because really, [53:57] your life is not about who's in office. This is what I've learned recently. I've thought a lot [54:01] of this recently because I was so disappointed in Trump and I'm like, oh my gosh, what do we do? [54:06] And it's like, I don't know. Love your wife more. Be kinder to the people who work for you. Give 100% [54:10] tip at dinner. I mean, I don't know. Like, you don't have to wait for some savior to come [54:16] and make everything perfect because like Josh Shapiro or DeSantis, I mean, come on, these guys. [54:21] I'm not saying they're evil or anything. I'm sure they're fine. But like, [54:25] they have no freaking idea what they're doing. They have no power. The president doesn't have [54:29] as much power as we thought. That's another thing I learned. He can't fix all these problems. He [54:33] doesn't have, he can't even, he can't even decide not to invade Iran. [54:36] Well, then why the hell do you want me or somebody else to run for office? I mean, [54:39] what hope would we have based on what you're saying? Well, you would have no hope, [54:43] but how hilarious would that be? Stephen A. Smith, ladies and gentlemen, go Stephen A. Smith. [54:47] And you'd be like, you know, I think it'd be funny as hell. I couldn't get anything done. [54:52] I'd lose my damn mind dealing with them on Capitol Hill. I couldn't get anything done. [54:56] But we don't have to wait for that. I guess that's the point. I mean, [54:59] I've really had to brood on this recently because I convinced myself that Trump was [55:03] really going to make a huge difference. And by the way, it didn't have to be this bad. [55:06] Obviously it was his fault, but he was never going to fix all the problems because [55:13] that's kind of not how it works. Like the president doesn't have the power to do that. I don't have to wait [55:17] for the perfect guy or even a great guy to get elected, to make my own life better, [55:21] to make the lives of people around me better. And I shouldn't wait. And I shouldn't also [55:26] think that my happiness, you know, is dependent on who's in the White House. [55:32] Like, it's just not true. It's like part of the op, actually. You know, you can create beautiful [55:38] things and a beautiful life and love other people, no matter who is. I mean, they're happy [55:42] people in North Korea. I'm sorry. I've been there. It's true. [55:45] Very last question. Is that something you've always known or is it something you've learned [55:52] since you departed from Fox News, since you built your own company, since you're doing what you're [55:57] doing now? I mean, I've learned it. I mean, if you'd asked me 30 years ago, do I think any man can [56:04] save humanity? No. I mean, I've never really believed it, but I've sort of talked myself into it. Look, [56:09] you spend enough time around politics. You've had this experience and you're like, [56:12] it's so important that so-and-so win or more commonly, it's so important that person lose. [56:18] Like, Kamala Harris is going to destroy everything. And like, I wouldn't vote for Kamala Harris. It's [56:22] kind of a joke, but that's not really true. She's not going to like destroy the love between me and [56:27] my wife. You know what I mean? Like, there are some things that just politics doesn't touch and will [56:34] never touch. And those things, like what happens after you die? I don't think Donald Trump is in charge [56:39] of that. And so the tragedy of this war and the sadness and the betrayal and the shock that I [56:46] felt being close to it and close to Trump was an occasion for me to think through some of these [56:52] things and like, be honest with myself. Like, I think I was putting a little bit too much on Trump. [56:57] Did I really think that electing Trump over Kamala was going to make all the difference forever? Like, [57:02] if I thought that, I'm an idiot. I mean, it'd probably be better, I guess, but it's not. [57:06] If I think that's like salvation, that's on me. [57:09] Tucker Carlson, appreciate the time, man. You gave me a lot of time. Thank you so much. I owe you. [57:15] I owe you an interview. [57:16] Dude, I'm going to see you on the debate stage. I'll be in the front with the press badge cheering [57:21] you on. Good luck. [57:22] You just, listen, nobody has dissuaded me more so than you. You already told me. You ain't going to get [57:27] anything done anyway. Why bother? There we go. Tucker Carlson, appreciate the time, [57:32] man. Thank you so much. See ya. Thank you. All right.