Trump's Christian Nationalist Agenda & Taxpayer-Funded DC Prayer Rally: Bishop Barber & Sarah Posner

[0:00] AMY GOODMAN, THIS IS DEMOCRACY NOW, DEMOCRACY NOW.ORG, I'M AMY GOODMAN. [0:05] IN WASHINGTON, D.C., THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE GATHERED ON THE NATIONAL MALL SUNDAY FOR A TAXPAYER-FUNDED [0:11] CHRISTIAN EVANGELICAL SERVICE BACKED BY PRESIDENT TRUMP. [0:18] THE EIGHT-HOUR LINEUP FEATURED SONG, PRAYER, AND SPEECHES, INCLUDING VIDEO MESSAGES BY [0:25] VICE PRESIDENT J.D. Vance, SECRETARY OF STATE MARCO RUBIO, DEFENSE SECRETARY PETE HEGSETH, [0:31] AND PRESIDENT TRUMP READING THE BIBLE, A VIDEO OF HIM. [0:36] THIS IS HOUSE SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON ADDRESSING THE GATHERING. [0:39] ALMIGHTY GOD, WE ASK THAT YOU HEAR THESE SOLEMN PETITIONS, JUST AS WE IN THE BEGINNING [0:44] DEDICATED THIS LAND TO YOUR MOST HOLY NAME, TODAY, HERE, LORD, IN THIS 250TH YEAR OF AMERICAN [0:51] INDEPENDENCE, WE HEREBY REDEDICATE THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AS ONE NATION UNDER GOD. [1:00] EARLIER SPEAKERS AT THE PRAYER SERVICE INCLUDE A NUMBER OF RELIGIOUS LEADERS AND THE CONSERVATIVE [1:05] RADIO HOST ERIC METAXAS. [1:08] ERIC METAXAS, It's hard to believe that it would take two centuries for the Lord to [1:12] raise up a great man to bring that ballroom finally to stand where it needs to stand. [1:20] It's extraordinary. [1:20] We only had to wait 200 years. [1:22] THE FREEDOM FROM RELIGION FOUNDATION BLASTED THE GOVERNMENT-SPONSORED PRAYER RALLY AS AN [1:28] UNPRECEDENTED AND SHOCKING MIX OF CHURCH AND STATE, ADDING QUOTE, OUR CONSTITUTION IS [1:33] GODLESS BY DESIGN. [1:34] THE GOVERNMENT HAS NO AUTHORITY TO ORGANIZE RELIGIOUS REVIVALS, MUCH LESS USE THEM TO [1:39] PROMOTE A CHRISTIAN NATIONALIST AGENDA, UNQUOTE. [1:41] WE'RE JOINED NOW BY TWO GUESTS, SARAH POSNER, AUTHOR OF UNHOLY, HOW WHITE CHRISTIAN NATIONALISTS [1:48] POWERED THE TRUMP PRESIDENCY AND THE DEVASTATING LEGACY THEY LEFT BEHIND. [1:53] SHE'S HOST OF THE PODCAST REIGN OF ERROR. [1:57] AND WE'RE JOINED BY BISHOP WILLIAM BARBER, PRESIDENT AND SENIOR LECTURE FOR PRAYERS OF THE [2:02] BREACH, FOUNDING DIRECTOR OF THE YALES CENTER FOR PUBLIC THEOLOGY AND PUBLIC POLICY. [2:07] HE TOOK PART IN A COUNTER EVENT ON SUNDAY CALLED REDIRECT 250. [2:13] SARAH POSNER, LET'S BEGIN WITH YOU. [2:16] TALK ABOUT THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THIS GATHERING. [2:19] SARAH POSNER, Well, this is another example, another prominent example, of the administration's [2:28] Christian nationalist agenda. [2:31] His Christian nationalist followers contend falsely that America was founded as a Christian nation, [2:38] that God intended America to be founded as a Christian nation, and that the Christian [2:43] nation has fallen away from that divinely intended founding, and that it's their job, both spiritually [2:52] and politically, to restore the Christian nation. [2:56] What does that mean? [2:58] To them, the political, social, legal progress of the 20th and 21st century are the things [3:05] that they think have caused America to decline and fall into sin. [3:11] So this is really a battle for the soul of America. [3:14] Are we going to be a pluralistic, secular nation governed by secular laws that protect equal [3:20] rights for all? [3:21] Or are we going to be a Christian nationalist country where the religion of Mike Johnson [3:27] and Paula White is imposed on the rest of us? [3:31] I heard one of the people on the mall yesterday saying, people understand the separation of church [3:39] and state the wrong way. [3:42] Yes, we don't want the government intervening in the church, he said. [3:47] But we do want the church intervening in the state. [3:50] I'm wondering if you can talk about the significance of taxpayer money being used to fund this Christian [3:59] revival. [4:00] Well, for a long time in our country, this would have been considered a significant breach [4:09] of church-state separation to have the taxpayer fund a specifically religiously-oriented event [4:19] that is intended for one particular audience and also intended to project the government's favoring [4:26] of one particular religious orientation. [4:30] Over the past several decades, the Supreme Court, which has also, I should point out, [4:36] been shaped by Donald Trump, has eroded that church-state separation. [4:41] And even apart from what might be legal or not legal under the current Supreme Court jurisprudence, [4:49] Trump has run roughshod on almost every norm and value that we have, including spending taxpayer [4:58] dollars for his own projects, including his own project of Christian nationalism in this case. [5:05] And yesterday, during this nine-hour prayer event on the National Mall, and is it significant [5:13] that the Trump administration, they all were beamed in, whether it was President Trump reading [5:19] from a Bible a few weeks ago, or Vance, or Rubio, or Hegseth? [5:27] Well, I think that obviously Trump couldn't even be bothered to produce a new video for this [5:33] event. They just replayed the same video that they had produced for a previous Christian [5:38] nationalist event called America Reads the Bible. And he could barely read the Bible in [5:44] the video, I should point out. I think viewers should go take a look at it and see how haplessly [5:49] he read the Bible verse and discussed it. But the fact that he went golfing instead couldn't [5:57] be bothered to show up at the event, nor could some of the top administration officials, shows [6:02] that they don't care enough to be immersed in with the crowd, but they care enough to have the crowd [6:17] provide the support for them. And I think, you know, if you're going to host an event like that, [6:23] showing up in person is a truly significant thing for a politician, but to project that [6:32] it doesn't matter enough to you, yet you expect this worship from the crowd is very telling. [6:40] I wanted to bring Bishop Barber into this conversation. [6:45] Can you talk about what you participated in yesterday, Redirect 250, as a direct counselor [6:54] to the Religious Nationalist Festival, the differences between a government-imposed prayer [7:01] event or supported, taxpayer-supported, and a grassroots movement? [7:07] Well, thank you. First of all, Amy, let me say a little bit about this whole event, [7:12] because yesterday, of course, many people were in Montgomery, Alabama, retracing the steps [7:18] of Dr. King. We deeply supported it. I was actually at Yale graduating students in public [7:24] policy and public theology that takes on this very kind of heresy that we saw in Washington, [7:32] D.C. But prophets and preachers are supposed to be the conscience of the nation. [7:37] We have plenty of scriptures that Donald Trump and them would never read that say that what we're [7:41] supposed to do is challenge the nation to care for the least of these, the poor, the hungry, [7:47] the sick, those who are pushed aside, the least of these, and the immigrants. [7:53] Nothing was Christian about what we saw yesterday. And we have to challenge even repeating that [7:58] it's Christian nationalism. It's not Christian nationalism. This is idolatry. This is heresy. [8:03] This is a form of religious nationalism. This is Trump worship. This is trying to make someone [8:08] a messiah figure. And it's very dangerous because the scriptures say the scripture that Trump actually [8:14] read yesterday is condemning of him and what they're doing, because it says that people are [8:20] supposed to turn from their wicked ways. And wickedness in the scripture is when you hurt the [8:26] poor, when you hurt women, when you mistreat the least of these. So I'm deeply offended as a person of [8:32] faith for something like this to be done. Because what we are supposed to do, as Dr. King once said, [8:38] the church is supposed to be the thermometer of a thermostat of society, not the thermometer. [8:43] We're not going to measure the temperature. We're supposed to change the temperature. [8:48] And everything that he has done and his group has done is counter anything that Jesus said. [8:54] Notice they never mentioned Jesus yesterday. They never mentioned justice yesterday. [8:58] And that is the fundamental problem with what they're doing. Any gathering that in this moment [9:06] is not saying anything about poverty and anything about the denial of voting rights and anything [9:11] about taking people's health care away and anything about unholy war and anything about the mistreatment [9:18] of immigrant brothers and sisters and claims to be Christian or religious is actually fundamentally [9:24] flawed and blasphemy. I'm using some strong terms this morning, Amy, because that's where we are. [9:31] And we have to stop calling them. They want us to call it Christian nationalism, but it is not. [9:36] There's not. They did not base anything they did yesterday on Jesus. Jesus is the example of [9:42] Christianity. And Jesus was killed by the state because he chose to stand up to the state and stand with [9:50] the least of these. So not only is it a violation of the Constitution, as a clergy, as a public theologian, [9:57] this is a violation of the basic principles of Christianity, Judeo-Christian traditions in itself. [10:05] It is fundamentally wrong. And for them to say it took 200 years to raise up somebody as though he's some [10:14] messiah figure that's now been sent by God is ultimate blasphemy. It is ultimate idolatry. [10:22] And we must challenge it and the church must challenge it and stand flat for it. That's why today [10:28] in D.C. we're preaching in front of the White House. We're having Moral Monday. We're going from [10:33] Saturday to Moral Monday in front of the White House in D.C. Standing up. Preachers are going to be [10:39] preaching in front of the White House following one of the great Jewish prophets, Jeremiah, who said, [10:44] go down to the palace and tell the king, stop hurting people, stop mistreating people, [10:51] stop murdering people. And so from Saturday, people by faith coming together saying we will not bow down [10:57] to the sin of voter suppression. We will not bow down to the injustice of taking people's God-given [11:04] right to today in front of the White House. We're going to be a direct challenge to what happened [11:11] on yesterday. We're broadcasting on 25 different sites and ministers leading clergy will be preaching [11:18] the gospel and preaching a true faith and not allowing what we saw yesterday to even be claimed [11:26] Christian. We can't even call it Christian. There's nothing Christian about what they did yesterday. [11:31] That is human worship and idolatry and blasphemy and heresy at the worst form. [11:37] Sarah Posner, as the nine-hour prayer event taxpayer-funded happened on the National Mall, [11:44] rededicating the United States to God, they said. President Trump once again threatened to destroy [11:51] Iran, saying on Truth Social, for Iran, the clock is ticking and they better get moving fast [11:58] or there won't be anything left of them. Time is of the essence, he wrote on social media. [12:07] I'm wondering if you can talk about the piece that you wrote about what you said, [12:15] evangelicals are working overtime to spin the Iran war. Sarah? [12:24] Well, white evangelicals are the most supportive religious group of Trump in general and in [12:32] particular of his war in Iran. Evangelicals for decades have been marinating in Christian Zionist [12:40] theology and ideology, which holds that in their view, America has a biblical duty to defend Israel [12:49] Israel and in particular defend Israel from aggression, both nuclear and otherwise, from Iran. So for [12:58] decades, they have exaggerated Iran's access or ability to obtain a nuclear weapon and have been [13:05] cheerleading Republican administrations since George W. Bush to attack Iran and wipe out its nuclear [13:13] capability. And so for them, the war in Iran is not an illegal war. It is not an immoral war. It's an [13:22] imperative to them. And they have supported Trump from the beginning. They have pushed Trump to do this [13:28] even in his first term. So they look at the war in a completely different way than most of the rest of the [13:35] nation does. They don't see it as an illegal foray that lacks congressional authorization and lacks the [13:45] legal justification for a war. To them, Donald Trump is the savior of America and in fact, probably the [13:53] savior of Israel in their view. And they don't see the war as a strategic failure either because they [14:00] can't admit any strategic failure by their savior, Donald Trump. So for them, the war, looking at the [14:09] war in the way that, say, Reverend Barber does, is just not part of their thinking. [14:16] AMY GOODMAN, Bishop Barber, if you can talk about President Trump taking on the Pope, Pope Leo, [14:25] retweeting a picture of himself as Jesus Christ, though he said he thought it made it just look [14:31] like he's a doctor. And also, the 22-foot gold-covered statue of Trump raising his fist, [14:40] known as Don Colossus, dedicated at the Trump National Doral Miami last week. One of the pastors, [14:49] Mark Burns, defended it on social media, saying, let me say this plainly, this is not a golden calf. [14:58] Well, it's not. It's a golden image. It comes straight out of the book of Daniel, [15:02] when Nebuchadnezzar raised an image of himself and wanted people to bow. And the prophets, [15:08] Chedrat, Meshach, Bendigo, and Daniel said, no, we will not bow down to you. Remember Saddam Hussein [15:14] did something similar? I mean, this man is committed to being a strong man, and his followers [15:20] are not Christian. They're not even evangelical. I have to say, I'm an evangelical. But evangelicalism [15:26] in the Bible, according to Jesus, starts with good news to the poor, healing to the brokenhearted, [15:32] recovery of sight to the blind, relief to the captive, and welcoming all those who've been unwelcome. [15:38] There is so much sinfulness in this. When he put up that picture to worship, first of all, [15:44] if he was a doctor, that's a bad doctor. I wouldn't go to the doctor. But trying to put himself [15:48] as Jesus with bombers flying over the head, not a halo, but bombers. The Pope not only challenged him, [15:59] but the Pope not only challenged him, but the church challenged him, all of the archbishops. [16:06] Since Vatican II, Vatican II has said anyone promoting war that is talking about the annihilation of people, [16:13] it is unholy. It is outside of even any concept of just war. War itself is unholy, particularly in a [16:22] nuclear age. It is dangerous. It is immoral. What we are seeing happening right now is time and time [16:28] again in Scripture, we see places where worshiping of a person leads to the destruction of a society. [16:37] And what he did, and what he did, every church person named that as a form of idolatry. I wrote about [16:46] it. We talked about it at our national conference on what are the moral issues of this particular [16:51] political moment. And it's extraordinarily dangerous. But we see it. We saw it in the Bible. [16:57] We saw it with Pharaoh. We saw it with Nebuchadnezzar. We've seen it with Hitler. We've seen it with [17:01] Saddam. We've seen it with so many people that attempt to mesh themselves, place themselves in [17:08] some kind of religious holiness. And what is most shameful about all of this is that those who would [17:15] dare call themselves evangelicals are not even acting like biblical evangelicals. They're acting the [17:22] opposite of it, which is why I refuse to call them evangelicals, because they want us to call [17:27] that name. We are in a moment where this president is playing with dangerous things. This is why [17:34] the Pope said this. He said, I'm just preaching the gospel. The Pope said, I'm just telling him the [17:39] gospel. And I'm going to continue to preach the gospel. And if that's what he's upset about, [17:44] he'll have to remain upset because the Pope said, I'm not backing up. And thank God that the Pope said that. [17:50] Bishop Bella, we just have 20 seconds. And I was wondering if you can just talk about the settling [17:56] of your federal discrimination lawsuit against AMC theaters stemming from you going with your mother [18:03] to the movie The Color Purple in 2023 in Greenville, North Carolina. [18:10] Well, yesterday we went back to the same theater, had the chair, had my mother, had 80-some people [18:14] with disabilities. I can't talk a lot about the some, but I can say we're saying to disabled people, [18:19] you don't have to hide, you don't have to run. I've been in pain for 40 years, every minute of my [18:24] life. And I refuse, like other disabled people, to be pushed to the side, to be turning it away. [18:29] Yesterday, we went back to that same theater, went in with the chair, went in with the people, [18:35] and looked at Michael Jackson on the big screen. And we're saying, everybody, come on out, [18:40] regardless of what your different ability is. Don't be in the corners. Don't be in the shadows. [18:44] Let people see you and know who you are. The laws protect you, and God loves you. [18:48] Thanks for watching Democracy Now! on YouTube. Subscribe to the channel and turn on notifications [18:54] to make sure you never miss a video. 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