Trump speech at Mount Rushmore: Making it clear 'who's in and who's out', expert says • FRANCE 24

[0:00] For more, we can cross to New York and speak to Ian Reifowitz, a distinguished professor of history at Sunni Empire State University and co-author of Riling Up the Base, Examining Trump's Use of Stereotypes Through an Interdisciplinary Lens. [0:13] Ian, thank you for joining Paris Direct. With those images that we saw of the U.S. president at Mount Rushmore, those flyovers, and then what's still to transpire later today in the nation's capital, how do you view all of this imagery and what it says to Americans? [0:30] Well, there are two America 250. There's two ways of celebrating America 250. There's the nonpartisan, bipartisan, we're all in this together, which is, I think, the approach that was aimed for when Congress set up America 250 about 10 years ago. [0:50] It was supposed to be above politics. It was supposed to be separate from politics. This president has essentially hijacked that. He created this other organization, Freedom 250, which is presenting a very pro-Trump, conservative, arguably, as some critics have argued, white nationalist or Christian nationalist division, [1:13] which is really not the inclusive vision that was supposed to be above politics that Congress had in mind and that, you know, was signed into law by President Obama in 2016. [1:23] This was not done at the 200th anniversary, the bicentennial. It was something that, you know, it followed a nonpolitical line. The president has created a number of events. I think you could argue it kicked off a couple of weeks ago with a mixed martial arts UFC fighting event on the White House lawn, where one of the fighters grabbed a microphone and called Michelle Obama a man. [1:48] I mean, some really ugly stuff. We as a people wanted, I think, to come together and celebrate together separate from politics. And I think President Trump has made a decision that that's not going to happen and that he's basically, as he actually said a few days ago, would rather have a MAGA rally on July 4th. [2:05] Yeah, that's what I was going to say, Ian. Independence Day, it should be sort of a softball for the U.S. president to rally the nation together, be above politics. [2:15] And I think a lot of Americans would like to know that's still possible in this polarized time. So is the goal of Freedom 250, like, directly the opposite? Is the intention to drive a wedge in U.S. society and say it's us versus them? [2:32] You know, I wouldn't say I don't think it's a wedge. OK, I don't think it's their goal, but I think it's the inevitable result of what they're doing. [2:43] And I don't think they mind or care. Trump has one goal, make himself more popular and more powerful. [2:50] If he has to ruin the America 250 celebration to achieve that goal, I don't think that is a concern. [2:57] So I think it's more of a byproduct than a goal. But yes, it's an easy thing to do. [3:04] What a president should be saying today is, this isn't about me. [3:08] This isn't about, you know, loving Donald Trump or this isn't about loving the president. [3:14] It's about loving the country we all share. It's easy. [3:18] It's actually the more popular way to go. But Donald Trump is who Donald Trump is. [3:24] I've said this so many times before, starting 10 years ago when he was 70. [3:28] Now that he's 80, he is who he is and he's been this way for decades and he's not going to change. [3:33] It is all about him. He doesn't have a concept of America that isn't like him. [3:39] For our French viewers, right, we had Louis XIV lit the state. [3:44] I won't murder my French, but the state is me. The state is me. [3:49] And I think Donald Trump sees America in the same way. [3:52] He doesn't have that sense of separation that American presidents have had and are supposed to have. [3:57] It's not a monarchy, but for him, the state is inseparable from Donald Trump. [4:04] And putting him in the spotlight there, does he risk upsetting any of his base or are they right on board with this? [4:10] That's a great question. I think his base loves this. [4:17] And this is something that I've written about. [4:19] They want to feel connected to him and part of the community, the MAGA community, that makes them feel special. [4:28] The people who are his base, let's call them maybe the 30 percent of the country, [4:33] not everybody who voted for Trump is part of the Trump base. [4:35] But this Trump base that is, as I've said, ride or die with him, [4:40] they don't necessarily want to feel connected to some of the people in America. [4:44] They want to feel connected to the people in America that they see as true Americans. [4:49] J.D. Vance has talked about America in this way. [4:52] He says America is not what every other politician and most, you know, [4:58] the people who talk about America as having an identity based on a creed, on a belief, [5:02] a belief in the principles of the Declaration of Independence, based on loyalty to the country. [5:08] For people like J.D. Vance, who I think says what Donald Trump wants to say [5:12] at a sort of higher intellectual level, but it's the same base idea. [5:16] It's based on blood, blood and soil, right? [5:19] Something that we've heard out, you know, in 19th century and early 20th century Germany, for example. [5:24] Blood and soil makes the nation. [5:26] Well, J.D. Vance talks that way. [5:28] And Donald Trump, even if he doesn't put it in the exact same words, [5:31] he and his base, I think, see it that same way as well. [5:34] Their unity is an exclusionary unity within a section of the American population, [5:39] rather than bringing every American together in an inclusionary national community. [5:43] Yeah. And who's left out of that vision of who is an American and who isn't? [5:50] Right. Well, J.D. Vance says you have to have had your ancestors here before the Civil War. [5:55] So he's eliminating recent immigrants. [5:58] He doesn't come out and say, you know, black people aren't included because black people were here before the Civil War. [6:03] But I think he can't come out and say that directly. [6:06] But for those in the MAGA base, they're never going to come out and say that too directly, [6:12] except for the people who are the most extreme. [6:15] But I think for them, the people who are the most American are the people whose ancestors, [6:22] if they didn't come across on the Mayflower, they're at least look like the people who came across on the Mayflower. [6:28] Certainly immigrants from outside of Europe. [6:31] When Donald Trump talks about people coming from a country that he insults with a slur, they're not included. [6:40] People who are LGBT or at least those who are pushing for that, [6:45] people who are LGBT to have a fully accepted place in the community, they're not included. [6:50] So, you know, they don't want to come right out and say who is and who isn't. [6:54] But it's pretty clear when you have people like the people marching in Charlottesville 10 years ago who were marching and saying Jews will not replace us. [7:04] And Donald Trump at least doesn't separate himself from those people. [7:08] And he says, well, there are good people on both sides of that rally. [7:10] He makes it clear who's in and who's out. [7:13] I was reading the White House website about one of the stated goals for this July 4th. [7:19] And it says, quote, to rededicate ourselves as one nation under God. [7:24] End quote. [7:24] One nation under God, a common phrase for many Americans, for viewers they might not know what to associate it with. [7:30] But just curious if you can give us a historical perspective. [7:34] It feels like religion has never been so present in daily politics in America. [7:40] I'm not sure if that's right or if that's just because the way Donald Trump dominates the news cycle. [7:46] But what's your perspective about how religion has crept more and more into public spaces? [7:53] Well, it's very clear. [7:55] And it's an active choice of the Trump administration. [7:58] I would say the easiest way to see this is you look at the Secretary of Defense, Pete Hegseth, appointed by Donald Trump, who then renamed at least unofficially this department, the Department of War. [8:14] Pete Hegseth constantly talks about Christ, talks about the military mission of the United States being in service of Christ. [8:23] This is something that was not done. [8:25] It's a radical shift from the way that the American military leadership talks about itself, being warriors for Christ. [8:36] The United States has a long tradition of presenting itself as nonpartisan. [8:43] This goes back to the founding. [8:45] You know, you have got the First Amendment, which says that the Congress shall pass no law establishing a church. [8:52] But then you have George Washington speaking as he did in communication with a synagogue, the first synagogue in America in the 1790s, and saying explicitly that America is not a Christian nation per se, that it is a place, a home for all religions. [9:08] Donald Trump and his administration are really in some ways turning 250 or so years of history on its head by making America, at least from his government's perspective, a Christian nation. [9:20] You see this in some of the Freedom 250 events, which have a historical presentation created by Hillsdale College, which is a Christian college, by PragerU, which is an explicitly Christian nationalist organization. [9:34] They're trying to present America and American history in this Christian light. [9:38] So this is the choice by the Trump administration to do something very, very different from really any of his predecessors, certainly in recent history and arguably even going back to George Washington. [9:49] Yeah, Ian, real quickly, I remember the biggest concern for me on the Fourth of July growing up was, did we have the hamburgers? [9:56] Did we have the hot dogs? [9:57] And could we find a good spot to watch the fireworks? [9:59] I might be romanticizing a bit, but it feels like that simpler time is gone. [10:03] Could we ever get back to a Fourth of July above politics? [10:09] I do think so. [10:11] The real question for America, present and future, is this. [10:15] Is Donald Trump an aberration? [10:17] If Donald Trump is an aberration, I could see future presidents just simply not doing something like this on July 4th. [10:25] The path of nonpartisan July 4th celebrations is a strong one in our country. [10:33] So we have a choice. [10:35] We have a choice. [10:36] Are we going to continue to elect leaders who are going to follow the path of Donald Trump or not? [10:42] And when we make that choice again as a country in two and a half years, a lot more important things will be decided than just the July 4th celebration. [10:51] But I do think the path of future to July 4th celebrations will be affected and shaped by that choice. [10:57] Professor, thank you very much for your time. [10:59] Ian Reifowitz joining us from New York. [11:01] Thank you. [11:02] Thank you.