Trump LOSES IT and Considers FIRING Press Secretary after Disastrous 14 Minute Press Conference?!?

[0:00] Welcome to a special edition of Legal AF, a crossover episode with the Don Lemon Show, [0:05] which means I'm about to bring on Don Lemon. And when I saw what was going on in the last [0:11] 24 to 48 hours, I said, I got to get Don on. First of all, first of all, we've got Katie [0:18] Zakaria. Boy, is she- [0:20] You know what I call her? [0:21] What do you call her? [0:21] I like to call her because you know they have this whole thing with Muslims. And I worked [0:25] on Friends and Friendly with Fareed Zakaria. So when I first saw her, I called her. [0:30] I called her Katie Zakaria. So I'm just going to call her Katie. I've been calling her Katie [0:35] Zakaria, Zakaria, Zakaria. [0:38] She is just a gift. She's a cornucopia. She's just a gift that keeps on giving. We're going [0:45] to love having her in the media, being up on that. I personally like, if I was designing [0:51] this person in the weird science lab, this would be the person. She can't read. She's [0:57] nervous. She's so nervous and it's not going to improve. Just like Pam Bondi never improved. [1:02] They used to be all over Kamala Harris for word salad. Word salad? Did anybody watch her [1:07] 14 minute? Yes. 14 minutes of which five of was her talking and then getting things wrong [1:14] like who she was married to. You know, like my husband, Donald Trump. I mean, my husband. [1:19] And then nine minutes of taking questions from right-wing media and three attempts to end the [1:25] press conference so she could go on Marine One on their way to Alaska. It was the weirdest [1:31] Saturday Night Live. If they had done a skit like this, we would have said that is ridiculous. [1:36] So you've got, so since I saw that, get ready. We got, I want to see who's going to play. I already [1:40] know who's going to play her. It's the, that lead person that's great. So I said, I got to get Don [1:44] Lebanon about that. And then of course we've got legitimate news. We've got a judge Kelly, [1:49] a former Trump appointee from the first term who just entered his preliminary injunction [1:54] to at least give MS Now, Politico and CNN back their hard passes. That's all. This is it. This [2:02] is all it's about everybody. It's not about the Oval Office. It's not about Marine One. It's not [2:06] about Air Force One. It's about just working in the White House with an active pass. He gave it back [2:12] to them. And then minutes later, the Trump administration already appealed to the DC [2:16] appellate court. But I wanted to talk about the first amendment implications of when reporters [2:22] get bashed mercilessly and get penalized mercilessly for their viewpoint. Does that, [2:30] what does that do to their reporting? I want to talk to you about that, Don. [2:33] I can't think of anybody better to talk about that. [2:36] Funny. Why would you think I would know about that? [2:39] So, so let's, thanks for being here on this crossover episode. You and I committed to doing [2:45] things more regularly and here we are. Let's kick it off with, with Zacharia. Okay. It's 14 minutes [2:53] of a press conference. First, they pick a woman whose body of work left a lot to be desired. We'd [2:59] all seen her on Newsmax and on Fox. And we thought it was interesting that she was a quote unquote lawyer [3:04] from Pepperdine Law School. I assume she was- Yeah, but the QAnon stuff that she espoused. [3:10] Well- I mean, it's, I, am I, I would say I am, I am surprised, not shocked or stunned that they [3:19] actually picked her. If you have seen some of the things that she said on television or that she [3:24] either posted or, you know, wrote about that part is the part that should be the first thing, [3:32] right? That should have been the first red flag for the Trump administration. But I, considering [3:37] everything, and we'll go over everything that she did, you know, with just the first day or the [3:43] first week of her being there. But, um, I, I don't think they vetted her. [3:50] No, you, you've hit the nail on the head. I said it last night on my podcast. They did not vet her. [3:57] Trump saw her and said, Oh, she's good looking. She looks great on TV. We'll put her there in place of [4:03] Caroline. I think that's what happened. 1000%. Because, you know, on your QAnon reference, [4:08] I mean, just the clip of her saying that Mifepristone, the drug created by a French [4:16] company in the eighties, which is the number one way that women obtain abortions at home, [4:21] medication abortions at home, was developed by the same people who've developed Cyclone B [4:26] that exterminated the Jews and others during the Holocaust. I mean, I mean, I'll give her props [4:33] for not denying the Holocaust, but, but the link between, you know, okay, we're almost there. [4:39] Then she linked Mifepristone to this French company that makes it back to the Nazis. I'm like, [4:46] okay. [4:47] Were they even around then? [4:48] No, it was a series of corporate transactions from, but it had nothing to do. She, she implied, [4:55] I'm sure people watching it. She wanted them to think that the drug in Mifepristone is the same [5:01] drug that killed Jews in the Holocaust. [5:03] And it's not. Well, okay. So there you go. You're proving my point. That should have been the first [5:08] red flag, but here, everything in Trump world is that he wants people to fit the part. That's number [5:13] one. Right. Um, so he thinks that Pete Hegseth looks good. And, uh, for, you know, he sort of [5:17] fits the part of a military dude. So he makes him the secretary of defense. So he thinks that, [5:25] um, you know, uh, Caroline Levitt looks like what a press secretary should be. So he gets her. And then [5:31] when she leaves, he wants to replace her with someone he thinks that a press secretary should [5:34] look like casting a movie, he's casting a movie, but he it's all he's look, but let me just tell you, [5:40] tell you this, at least there's diversity there. I'm kidding. There's no diversity. [5:47] As he went from Kaylee McEnany to, uh, Caroline Levitt to this Katie and they're all K's and [5:53] they're all blondes. Yeah. But they have the nerve though, Michael, to talk about, um, meritocracy [6:02] and diversity, equity, and inclusion. Now under their definition of diversity, equity, inclusion, [6:06] she, she is definitely a DEI hierarchy. She has no idea. She is not qualified. Objectively. The [6:12] woman is not qualified. She should not be anybody's press secretary, let alone the president's press [6:17] secretary. Speaking of that, I want to play a clip of Hannity. She can't even talk. I want to play a [6:22] clip of Hannity and have you respond where Hannity says this wouldn't be happening to her if she was [6:28] black. Okay. Talking about the press. You didn't see this one talking about the press secretary for [6:34] Biden. Play the clip. Right. A perfectly normal question and answer, but most of the so-called [6:39] journalists, and I say so-called because that's what I mean. We have an abusively biased, corrupt [6:44] news media in this country, the legacy media mob, as I affectionately refer to them. Um, they are not [6:50] interested in real questions and real answers. They are out for blood. Um, Zachariah has been [6:57] mocked. She's been attacked over her appearance, her hair, the way she spoke. They questioned her [7:03] intelligence, her credentials. They even asked about her bar exam. Um, could you imagine the press [7:08] asking, uh, similar questions to Corrine Jean-Pierre asking about her background, her record [7:16] with Zachariah, a blowback was immediate. It was nasty. Uh, and all of this from a group of people [7:22] that claim to champion women in the workplace, which brings us to some. Well, first of all, [7:27] Corrine Jean-Pierre on her worst day is better than this Katie, uh, Zach, Zacharia, Zachariah on her [7:34] best day. It's obvious. It's obvious that she is not qualified. And for Sean Hannity to sit there and [7:40] say, we wouldn't be going through this if she were black. Do you remember the shit, pardon my French, [7:44] that Sean Hannity and conservative media said about Corrine Jean-Pierre? They said everything, [7:49] if not worse than what people are saying about this woman. Everything but the N-word. [7:54] Everything but the N-word. They called her. I'm sure they used the DEI, uh, word on her, [7:59] which is basically them wanting to call people the N-word. Of course, Sean Hannity is, uh, out of his [8:05] mind. He is delusional and he was the biggest purveyor of it. One of the biggest purveyors of it. [8:11] But what does that tell you, Don, that they're down to that to defend her performance? [8:16] That, well, first of all, they don't see their own racism. And second of all, uh, anybody can, [8:20] look, the reason I, when we first started, I bent over to grab these papers is because [8:23] this was her. Now imagine on your first day, anything you do as a lawyer or anybody, [8:28] me as a journalist or whatever, I come on, when I come on, I don't have like my, my, uh, thing in [8:34] the teleprompter or whatever, reading my notes of what I'm going to say. Hey guys, [8:38] it's the first day of my new show. I, we don't know what's going to happen here. I don't know [8:42] what's going to happen, but I look, I am so happy to, to work with you guys or if I was in the thing, [8:46] in the, in the room, uh, look, I'm so honored to be here working with you. Great journalists, [8:51] the best journalists in the world, in this room. And I know the import, how important this is. [8:56] So we're going to go through this together. It's my first day. Go easy on me, everybody. Ha ha ha. [9:01] Right. Instead. Hi, my name is Katie Zachariah, and I'm happy to be here with you. And well, [9:15] now I'm going to take some questions. I'm not far off. I'm not exaggerating. [9:23] I was going to play a clip, but that was pretty darn close, Don. [9:26] Why don't you play it? Let's see if we match. [9:29] Let's play a compilation of the best of worst of Katie's first day. First 14 minutes. [9:35] In addition to that, we will be, we will be doing, he has, there's $54 billion tied to the Alaska [9:44] LNG pipeline and terminal to service the Pacific rim and sell fuel to our allies. [9:51] I am so honored to work for president Trump and the American people as the new white house press [10:00] secretary. I want to thank president Trump for his trust that he has placed in me. [10:09] He had a historic one day war, [10:12] and now we are have a booming economy and a great relationship with Venezuela. [10:19] Hardworking Americans are lining up and packing arenas to support president Trump [10:25] and Republicans. It's not hard to see why. [10:31] President Trump also unveiled a South Korea energy investment package of up to $200 billion [10:38] in the United States. [10:40] This is an amazing deal. [10:42] This includes as much as $120 billion to build eight large scale nuclear power plants. [10:51] This is a president and administration that is looking out for you, [10:55] the American people, and I'm thrilled to officially be part of this incredible journey together. [11:04] And with that, I will take your questions. [11:09] Okay. [11:10] Recent polls have shown a fifth of Americans can't locate the U.S. on a world map. [11:15] Why do you think this is? [11:16] I personally believe that U.S. Americans are unable to do so because some people out there [11:28] in our nation don't have maps. [11:30] And I believe that our education, like such as in South Africa and the Iraq, everywhere, [11:37] like such as, and I believe that they should, our education over here in the U.S. [11:44] should help the U.S., or should help South Africa, and should help the Iraq and the Asian [11:49] countries so we will be able to build up our future for our job. [11:54] Thank you very much, South Carolina. [11:57] My favorite part is she pulled a Pam Bondi, and I'll explain what I mean. [12:01] Remember when Pam Bondi— [12:01] You mean the Hatch Act? [12:03] No, go on, sorry. [12:03] Well, that, yes. [12:05] Violated? [12:05] That'll be violated every day. [12:07] There's a press conference. [12:08] But the Pam Bondi for me is when she was the lawyer for Donald Trump during the impeachment [12:14] proceeding, and she was as surprised about what words were on the next page in her binder [12:21] as we were because she turned the—she said—she got to the end of her page, and then she [12:27] turned it and was shocked to see the next word because we had to wait. [12:34] It was a cliffhanger. [12:35] She turned the page in her—now, I will give a cheat. [12:38] I'll give a hack here for somebody that's been up at a podium. [12:41] You have, too. [12:41] Okay, back in the old days, before electronic devices, everybody, if you really didn't know [12:47] your opening, you would write the first three or four words of the next page at the bottom [12:54] of that page so that you could easily transfer, right? [12:58] Okay, if you didn't have a teleprompter, like I'm in a courtroom, I don't have a teleprompter. [13:02] If you needed to get some wording, wordsmithing exactly right, that's how you would do it. [13:07] Not that, not Stephen Chung shoved something into her three-ring binder, into her mead [13:12] trapper, and she didn't know what was coming up next. [13:15] Trapper keeper. [13:16] You're my age. [13:17] You had a trapper keeper, too. [13:20] Well, I mean, that's what happened. [13:22] My favorite part, though—can I tell you my favorite part? [13:25] There were two. [13:25] There was one where she goes, and up, no, and—and she sounded like the beauty pageant [13:31] room that was like, and such as, and world peace, and God bless America. [13:38] But she sounded like that. [13:40] When's the bathing suit competition starting? [13:42] Oh, well, I mean, come on. [13:44] She does look like a beauty—remember, he was the beauty pageant guy. [13:47] Yeah. [13:48] And let's be honest. [13:49] I'm not saying—in order to be in a beauty pageant, you know, most women are very attractive [13:53] or whatever. [13:53] I'm not saying she's unattractive. [13:55] I'm not questioning her appearance. [13:57] I don't like to do that. [13:58] But she has a certain look, right? [14:00] She has a sort of—I shouldn't say Barbie doll. [14:03] Let's scratch that. [14:04] She looks like a Fox News anchor. [14:07] Yeah. [14:07] I don't know about that. [14:08] And that's what we love. [14:08] She's got the pussy bow. [14:10] She's got all the makeup and the lashes and the hair. [14:16] Yeah. [14:16] But my favorite part was, well, you know, having kids and moving halfway across the country [14:24] and my president—I mean, my husband. [14:26] I always get those two confused. [14:28] And I was like, oh, shit. [14:31] Freudian slip. [14:32] You know, Jen Psaki had a great line, you know, having been a press secretary. [14:36] She said, you know, in these times, especially with Donald Trump's reputation, confusing your [14:42] husband with Donald Trump as a woman is probably not a good thing. [14:45] Yeah, not a good thing at all. [14:47] When you just said in these times, we had the funniest thing when Donald Trump first started [14:52] when I was at CNN, I'd see my colleagues, and I'd say, how are you? [14:55] And the joke was, in these trying times, right? [15:00] Because that's where we are in these trying times. [15:03] But here's the thing that, in all seriousness, if I can be serious about this. [15:06] Yeah, of course. [15:07] When you think about how much they talk about diversity, equity, and inclusion, or disparage [15:11] it, right? [15:12] And because maybe it's, we say it's the N-word, not maybe, it's the N-word that they get to [15:16] use. [15:17] They said it when they first started, when the administration first came back, when the planes [15:22] collided, that it was DEI. [15:24] There was no evidence of any of it being DEI. [15:26] All of the people who have lost their jobs, especially black women in this economy, unprecedented [15:32] numbers. [15:33] And then they're talking about meritocracy and what DEI is. [15:36] And then you get this woman up there who looks the part, blonde hair, blue eyes, that they [15:40] think is what meritocracy means. [15:42] And she completely face plants. [15:45] It is everyone, you know, and I hear them saying, it was her first day, she's nervous. [15:49] When you are the damn press secretary for the White House, you are the face of the White [15:55] House other than the president, and maybe the vice president, you need to have your shit [15:58] together. [15:59] You can't get out there. [16:00] This is not like, okay, let's go out there and test somebody. [16:03] We'll do a focus group. [16:05] You don't do that when you're the White House president. [16:07] She's not going to get any better, just the way Kristi Noem didn't get any better, Pam [16:11] Bondi. [16:11] This is not a wound that heals. [16:13] You can't fix this. [16:15] He said he thought she did great, remember? [16:17] Right. [16:17] Until they asked her where her law license was from. [16:22] And she lied about her law school career. [16:24] She said China and Trump goes, what? [16:28] That might've been the moment when he decided to fire her. [16:31] When we look back on it, at that moment, when she said- [16:35] That moment is amazing. [16:36] To save her, we're going to play the clip now. [16:38] He's literally like this. [16:39] But to save herself, first of all, he had no idea what they were talking about her, [16:43] about her being a lawyer. [16:44] Katie, Katie, what state are you admitted to practice law in? [16:48] Which of the 50 states are you admitted? [16:51] And then she responds with China, play the clip. [16:53] She said she's an attorney. [16:55] Where did she pass the bar exam? [16:56] Which state? [16:57] What state? [16:57] Did she tell her? [16:59] Where did she pass the bar exam? [17:03] Mr. President. [17:05] That response from White House Press Secretary Katie Zachariah has raised more questions than [17:10] answers. [17:10] In her first day in the role, Zachariah answered just three questions from reporters during her [17:15] debut White House press briefing. [17:17] Zachariah then faced another question as the President spoke to the press outside the White House. [17:22] Where did she pass the bar exam, man? [17:25] He said she's an attorney. [17:26] Where did she pass the bar exam? [17:28] Which state? [17:28] Which state? [17:29] Can you tell her? [17:30] Where did she pass the bar exam? [17:37] So, we see that. [17:39] Looking back, like, when does the bar... [17:40] He never turned into the camera until afterwards. [17:42] He looks at her and she's answering. [17:43] He's like... [17:44] You know, when he's, like, 95 and you're interviewing him for, like, the lemon Trump tapes, like the [17:50] Nixon Frost tapes, you know, that may happen. [17:53] You know, stranger things have happened. [17:55] And you ask him, tell us the truth now. [17:57] When was the moment that you decided to fire your press secretary? [18:01] Was it when she said she was admitted to the Chinese bar? [18:05] Was that it? [18:11] He said, here we go, and then she said, China. [18:15] China. [18:15] But just what we need. [18:17] She's already... [18:18] We've already seen clips, I'm sure you've done them, we've done them, where she was an [18:22] apologist for Putin, like she was reading from the Kremlin talking points when she was [18:27] on Fox in different places. [18:29] Now she's also working, according to her... [18:32] Now, let me explain the Chinese thing for a minute. [18:34] That's what I wanted to ask you. [18:35] You were an attorney, so you tell me what that means. [18:37] And I know what it is. [18:38] So, she followed a mate, a spouse, to China. [18:41] He was in financial services, hedge fund or something. [18:44] And she needed something to do. [18:45] So, Chinese law firms will hire the spouses who are not admitted and cannot be admitted [18:51] into the Chinese bar unless the Communist Party lets you in. [18:55] They let them serve as effectively paralegals. [19:00] They call them foreign law interns or foreign law experts. [19:05] I mean, I don't know how expert she was after three years of law school. [19:08] I certainly wasn't, even though I went to a better law school than she did. [19:12] But they give them a job because they're there hanging around in China. [19:16] It's sort of like, what was the great movie that I lost in translation, like in Japan? [19:20] Oh, yeah. [19:20] Yeah, I love that movie. [19:21] They need something to do. [19:22] It's a great movie. [19:23] They need something to do. [19:24] So, they hire them. [19:25] And they put them in a rubber room where they won't hurt anybody. [19:27] And they go, here, do a corporate transactional document. [19:30] And it's got a U.S. law thing. [19:31] Go look at it. [19:32] And they pay them. [19:33] And that's what she did. [19:34] She worked for this major Chinese law firm as a foreign intern. [19:38] But Don, Don, when you look at her LinkedIn, she says she was the general counsel of a not-for-profit. [19:45] Now, I've been a deputy general counsel for a company. [19:47] You've got to be admitted to practice law somewhere. [19:50] So, I'm going to have Rob Bonta, the attorney general from California, on with me on Thursday. [19:54] Because they're celebrating 100 lawsuits that the attorney generals have filed against the Trump administration. [20:01] And I'm going to say to them, is the California Board of Bar Examiners looking at whether Katie Zacharia is unlawfully practicing law, UPL, which they're allowed to do? [20:13] She's not going to last. [20:14] She's not going to last. [20:15] She's not. [20:15] That's what I said. [20:16] That's what I said to them. [20:17] You know what? [20:18] My gut is always right. [20:21] I woke up this morning and I said, oh, the next shoe to drop is a law license. [20:26] And maybe that was the moment that he decided that he was going to fire her. [20:31] But I don't think they're going to fire her immediately. [20:33] Not immediately, because that would be efficient. [20:35] Yeah, that would be. [20:36] You just read my mind and took the exact words that I was going to say, a word that I was going to say. [20:41] And I think what they're going to do is try to, they're going to see if they can give her some quick media training. [20:46] But then they're going to go, now they're going to go do their homework and vet her. [20:52] Now, here's the thing. [20:53] This is a weird correlation, a weird connection that only maybe you will understand, considering what I am dealing with. [21:01] This is indicative of this administration, where they do something and then they go look for the evidence to do what they did. [21:11] So, we'll arrest him, but then now we've got to go find the evidence to arrest. [21:16] Find the evidence to make that stick or to make the case when they should have found the evidence and then whatever. [21:21] And if there's no evidence, then don't do it. [21:23] So, they should have vetted her. [21:25] And now they're going to go back and vet her and see how they can fix it. [21:29] Let's send her to get some media training. [21:31] We'll give her a couple more chances in front of the thing. [21:33] And then she's going to be gone. [21:34] Because if you look at her body language, and again, unless they're playing, you know, 4D chess, go out, bomb. [21:43] And then when you come back the next time, they'll be like, oh, wow, she's really improved. [21:47] She's great. [21:48] I don't think so. [21:49] Let me ask you something personal. [21:51] With the right president, would you ever take that job? [21:54] Yeah. [21:55] You would, right? [21:56] 100%. [21:56] I would. [21:57] You'd be good at it. [21:59] You know it. [22:01] I would be. [22:02] Yeah. [22:02] I would be. [22:02] I think I would be really good at it because, number one, you have to have a personality. [22:09] I'm used to working with journalists. [22:11] I know what their needs are. [22:13] I know how to give stuff. [22:16] Because you're going to have to give stuff on background, right? [22:18] There's some things you're going to. [22:19] There are certain things that go along with the job. [22:21] But, yeah, I know how to do it. [22:24] I know how to do my research. [22:25] And if I can't answer a question, I know enough, as someone who's been on the other side, how to not answer a question. [22:30] But you wouldn't do this. [22:31] I want to show one more clip on that point. [22:32] You wouldn't come in without the fundamentals of your job. [22:37] Are you talking about Ukraine? [22:38] Yes. [22:39] You wouldn't come in with the fundamentals of your job not mastered. [22:43] So if you're asked the inevitable question about Ukraine, and now we're funding Russia's war against Ukraine by buying their diesel oil or diesel fuel, [22:53] and then you're asked the question about what we're doing with Ukraine sharing intelligence, I doubt you would do this. [22:58] Play the clip. [22:59] Has the U.S. stopped sharing intel with Ukraine? [23:02] I'll have to get back to you on that. [23:05] I'll have to get back to you on that one, Don. [23:06] Okay, so here's the thing. [23:08] I'll have to get back to you is actually not a bad answer. [23:12] And as much as I thought she was, I didn't actually think she was that good as people think she was. [23:16] I just, because she didn't have to rely on facts, and that's Caroline Levitt. [23:19] She would tell reporters, I'll follow up with you on that. [23:22] Okay, so here's the thing. [23:23] But you have to have an answer before the, you have to have an answer before the, I will get back to you. [23:30] Okay, so I did this too with Adam Mockler on my show this morning, right after it happened. [23:36] And so ask me the question. [23:38] Ask me the question. [23:39] Are we sharing? [23:40] The question was, are we sharing intelligence? [23:41] Don, Don. [23:43] Yes. [23:43] Michael Popok, Legal AF. [23:45] Michael Popok, go ahead. [23:46] Hey, Michael. [23:47] Good to see you. [23:47] How are you? [23:48] Yeah, doing great. [23:49] I have a question about the relationship currently between the U.S. and Ukraine. [23:54] Is the U.S., have they stopped sharing, have we stopped sharing intelligence information with the Ukrainians? [24:00] Well, Michael, as you know, you've been doing this for a long time. [24:03] We have long been an ally of Ukraine. [24:05] And of course, we have not only shared information with them in the past, but we've also offered them resources, including monetary resources and military equipment, for them to be able to fight this war. [24:17] Now, the specifics on whether we are sharing and what we're sharing with the Ukrainians and with President Zelensky, in order for me to get granular and to give you a really consistent and fulsome answer, I'm going to have to get back to you. [24:31] I want to check on it because I want to make sure that I give you the right answer. [24:33] I don't want to give you misinformation. [24:34] Thank you, Michael. [24:35] Next. [24:36] Next. [24:36] Next. [24:36] Or you get also with, it may also be a national security interest. [24:40] I may not be able to share that with you. [24:42] Yeah, I may not be able to share some things. [24:44] I want to make sure that I'm not giving away things that are in the interest of national security. [24:49] I mean, how hard is that? [24:50] That's why you'd be great for the job. [24:52] Let me switch gears from phony, fake press secretaries to real reporters. [24:58] So we've been watching merciless bashing of the press since the first Trump administration and it's accelerated in the second Trump administration. [25:08] I mean, when you label members of the fourth estate, the fourth branch of government, when you label them the enemy of the people, using terminology from dictators, you know things are not going to go well for the press. [25:20] And they have been standing in there, especially female reporters who have been abused in misogynistic ways over and over again for their appearance, for their intelligence. [25:30] They've been cut off. [25:31] And look, look what they've done to you. [25:33] I mean, look what they've done to you in doing reporting in Minneapolis, in St. Paul, during, you know, the ICE operation there at the church, going as far as indicting you. [25:47] Does this have, because the human beings that make up my audience are thinking, doesn't this have an impact on, a chilling impact on reporters doing their job? [26:02] It's not the story, it's the story that they're ignoring or the lead they're not following that we'll never know about because they're worried about getting yelled at, bashed, indicted, banned, barred, imprisoned, and the like. [26:16] Tell our people about what it's like to be on the receiving end and what it does to your reporting. [26:19] Well, if you are, if you are sort of a, I believe, committed and dying the war reporter, if that dying the war makes sense, it just, it makes you want to double down on getting the information. [26:34] However, it makes getting the information a lot harder. [26:37] And one of the reasons that they put someone up there like Katie Zakaria is because they don't care about the press. [26:44] They don't care about giving accurate information. [26:46] And perhaps they don't care if she is, whether she is good at the job. [26:51] Well, it's obvious because she is, by all accounts, in my opinion, a QAnon conspiracist, conspiracy theorist. [26:57] Now, what that does to the reporters, it hinders the reporters from being able to do their jobs. [27:04] And in many reporters who are, as I can understand, they have to pay the mortgage. [27:08] They got to pay the rent. [27:09] They got to put their kids in school. [27:10] They have to pay the medical bills, all of those things. [27:12] They're worried about if I lose access, I don't have a job here. [27:16] If I lose access, my boss is going to be mad. [27:19] I can't necessarily fight back and hold them to account the way that I would like to because now we have an administration, our bosses or people who own us that are cozying up to the administration. [27:31] So, look, it's all connected. [27:33] And it's all connected because they don't want you getting the accurate information. [27:38] Anyone who is at all critical of Donald Trump, he either criticizes them, tries to sideline them, tries to silence them or investigates them and or jails. [27:49] That's what it does to journalism in general. [27:53] And reporters are afraid of that. [27:54] And I can understand why. [27:55] Who wants to go to jail? [27:56] Who wants to be investigated? [27:58] I mean, the standard in the First Amendment is a report. [28:01] What would a reporter of ordinary firmness do in response to that onslaught? [28:08] Not a Don Lemon, whose courage cannot be calculated in terms of you still being on the air, doing what you do every day, doubling down, [28:17] being more hard-nosed than, which is hard to believe, than even before in doggedness of your reporting, despite being a criminal defendant with the United States of America on the other side of you. [28:28] It's just ordinary firmness. [28:30] What about the cub reporter? [28:31] What about the reporter that's three years out and gets the White House beat? [28:35] I mean, it's having an effect, right? [28:39] Of course it's having an effect. [28:41] Of course it's having an effect. [28:42] Let me turn that around on you. [28:47] If you were just in college or just getting out of college and someone said right now in this environment, hey, do you want to be a journalist? [28:54] Let's say you've been a journalist. [28:55] What would you say? [28:56] What would you do? [28:57] Would you want to be a part of that? [28:58] Is Don Lemon or Midas Touch legal AF hiring? [29:03] Mainstream media is such a target and is being unfairly bashed and attacked by this administration, [29:12] by its attorney general, by its White House staff, by the vice president, by the president himself at every event. [29:22] You're right. [29:23] There's going to be people that said, you know what? [29:25] I'm not going to do. [29:26] That's not a thing I want to do. [29:28] I'm going to go write about wine and cheese in Napa Valley. [29:32] Yeah. [29:32] Or, yeah. [29:34] I mean, and I couldn't blame them. [29:37] So, yeah. [29:37] What kind of effect? [29:38] Again, what kind of effect does that have? [29:40] See, we never had that. [29:41] Well, you and I, not you and I, but we never had in society that type of dialogue. [29:46] We understood that politics had gotten so dirty and had gotten such a hard place for the average person to run for office [29:57] because of how they'd be subjected to the right-wing media or the other media and for their families. [30:04] And so a lot of people do not run. [30:06] They do not see public service as something that they want to subject themselves or their family to. [30:13] We don't get the best and brightest. [30:14] I mean, a lot of my audience says, these are the best candidates? [30:20] Why isn't there a better candidate for this position? [30:22] It's because the better candidate is staying on the sidelines because they don't want to deal with being in the public eye and being subjected to that critique. [30:31] But now we're talking about reporters who don't want to become reporters because of it. [30:37] Yes, but you also have career law enforcement people, career prosecutors, people who have spent their careers wanting to serve their country. [30:48] They are getting out of this administration because they don't want to deal with the bullshit. [30:53] They don't want to have to go and try to prosecute someone just because the president is mad at them or doesn't like what they write about them [31:02] or doesn't like that they're not investigating them or that they were assigned to a case that perhaps the president had a connection to. [31:09] We have people, the brain drain that's going on beyond journalism is astounding. [31:14] You know, you know, people who are in the Justice Department, I'm sure, you know, folks who work in government who are saying, I'm out. [31:21] I can't deal with this. [31:22] And now, if you've seen the reports, they're hiring these right wing, far right wing partisan people to take these jobs in the Justice Department, [31:32] the Civil Rights Division and beyond who are not qualified to do it and who have an agenda rather than enforcing the law and the rules. [31:40] Well, in my field, there's going to have to be an entire reevaluation of somebody's resume in the law because when I came out of law school, [31:49] your path, if you wanted this path, was that you came out of law school, you took a federal clerkship, [31:55] you clerked for a federal judge, maybe for three or four years, maybe up to an appellate court, [32:00] and then you went into the U.S. Attorney's Office and you became an assistant U.S. attorney. [32:06] There is now an entire group of law students who will not have that type of resume, [32:12] who will not go in to the U.S. Attorney's Office or have to go late. [32:17] They'll have to go to law firms now, bide their time until the Trump administration is over, [32:21] hope to God that the Democrats win the presidency and get the Department of Justice back under control. [32:26] And then when they're now 30, 31, 32, much older than normal, they would come into the U.S. Attorney's Office. [32:32] Because when you see who holds these top jobs at major law firms, many of them, especially on the litigation side, [32:39] were assistant U.S. attorneys or U.S. attorneys. [32:41] But this whole group is going to have to skip over that and has skipped over that. [32:46] And it's now going to have to come up with a different career path. [32:48] So you're right, it's warping many, many industries and the talent that would normally be attracted to those industries. [32:58] Well, and that, but again, back to Katie, Zakaria, Zakaria. [33:02] When you think about all the people who have lost their jobs or couldn't or just said, [33:07] I can't deal with this. [33:08] And then you have someone like her who appears by all accounts to be an empty suit and unqualified. [33:17] And there she is in that role. [33:18] And the reason I keep going back to it is because it is the visible manifestation of the bigotry, the racism, [33:26] in some ways sexism, and the hypocrisy of the Trump administration. [33:33] This is the way a woman should look like if you are the face for this administration. [33:40] This is the kind of woman, this blonde hair, blue eyed kind of woman. [33:44] And we're going to fire all the other people because we believe they're unqualified just because we think they've got their jobs because they're black or of color or an immigrant or in some ways, in some ways, a woman. [33:59] The most skilled and sophisticated person in the communications team is Stephen Chung, who's her boss. [34:08] But you'll never see Stephen Chung take to a podium. [34:11] Mainly, I mean, he's got some appearance issues, which I won't. [34:15] I don't know much about him. [34:16] I have to be honest. [34:17] I don't really know much about him. [34:18] Yeah, I know people that know him. [34:20] I mean, he is. [34:21] I mean, he's disgusting in what he writes on social media. [34:23] But if you're going to say who's the most talented and sophisticated communications person that we have, it's Stephen. [34:30] But Stephen won't take the podium. [34:31] First of all, Donald Trump doesn't want him up there. [34:33] Second of all, it just shows you how little Donald Trump thinks about him. [34:35] Because he doesn't look the part? [34:36] He doesn't look the part. [34:37] He's a heavy set Asian guy with a sweaty, bald head. [34:41] He's definitely not going to be standing there answering questions. [34:44] But he should be, by all accounts. [34:48] For me, it also demonstrates how little Donald Trump thinks about the press. [34:52] The fact that he thinks this woman can do the job. [34:55] She's going to get eaten alive, Don. [34:58] And I'm sure they're like, is this our gift for having been abused so long? [35:03] We get Katie? [35:05] You know, they're going to nail her everywhere they can. [35:08] And with lots of questions, wait till press, you know, this controlled room or the Brady room for press conferences is one thing. [35:17] But wait till she's out on the lawn. [35:19] Wait till she's out, right? [35:20] I mean, Kate, say what you want about Carolyn Leavitt. [35:22] But she was good on the tarmac. [35:25] She was, you know, she was evil. [35:27] But she was good, you know, standing in front of the White House in the Rose Garden. [35:30] This one? [35:32] Yeah. [35:33] Well, see, what this one doesn't understand maybe is, well, first of all, she doesn't have the skills. [35:37] And what she doesn't understand is when you're in Donald Trump's world, then what Caroline Leavitt understood is that you don't have to operate by facts. [35:45] And also, you can be antagonistic. [35:47] And also, you can insult people. [35:49] So the reason that you think that she's good, see, I don't think that she was, I guess she was good in the role that Donald Trump wanted her to do it to be. [35:58] But she actually was not, I don't think she was a good press secretary. [36:02] I think that Jen Psaki was a fantastic press secretary. [36:07] I think that there are others who was, I thought Robert Gibbs was a great press secretary. [36:12] And there are, I didn't think that what's her name was that bad. [36:16] Sarah Huckabee Sanders. [36:18] She's better than Sean Spicer, right? [36:19] Yeah, right. [36:20] So if you ask me, I don't want you to ask me another question again, but all you'd have to do is say, [36:25] Michael, this president is the hardest working president in the world. [36:31] He is the hardest working president in history. [36:33] What he's doing for the American people, and for you to ask me a question like that, you should be ashamed of yourself. [36:39] Because you are fake news. [36:41] You are a biased reporter. [36:43] That's what we got every time. [36:44] And it's not that hard to do. [36:47] Right. [36:48] But she hasn't realized that. [36:50] She thinks, like, I'm going to be sweet, and I'm going to smile like a beauty pageant contestant, and then that'll get me. [36:55] No, if she took that stance, she might be okay in this Trump world. [37:00] I was waiting for her at one point to reach below the podium and pull out a clarinet and say, now for my clarinet solo, like, is this the talent portion of the press conference? [37:10] I did not realize that. [37:13] And such as? [37:15] And such as. [37:16] So we have the great Don Lemon. [37:19] We're collaborating here today, but you can find his work at the Don Lemon Show on YouTube. [37:23] Wait, are we done? [37:24] And on Substack. [37:25] We're going to be done. [37:26] You don't want to be done? [37:27] Let's keep going. [37:27] Here, it's a good time. [37:28] I want to do a poll. [37:30] Don and I have talked offline about doing a show together. [37:32] What do people think? [37:34] Thumbs up or thumbs down? [37:35] We'll have a poll, and let's let the audience decide. [37:40] What would we call it? [37:41] Oh, I don't know. [37:41] It would be fun. [37:42] Whatever. [37:43] Maybe something with Lemon and Popa. [37:45] I don't know. [37:46] We'd come up with something. [37:46] Like, I don't know. [37:49] Maybe this is Tupac. [37:50] We can call it Dupac, D-O, Don, Pac. [37:53] Oh, oh, oh. [37:55] Dupac. [37:56] That's not bad. [37:57] Oh, yeah. [37:58] Forget the name. [37:59] If you think it's a good idea, leave it in comments. [38:02] Come over to the Don Lemon Show. [38:04] Subscribe to everything he does. [38:05] Watch everything he does. [38:07] Here's the thing. [38:09] What could we? [38:09] We could do everything. [38:11] Everything legally you could do. [38:13] We're both, we know politics. [38:15] Yeah. [38:15] I know, you know. [38:17] I know a bit about entertainment. [38:18] I know media. [38:19] Like, come on. [38:20] You know the criminal court system? [38:23] I'm getting a quick immersion into it. [38:28] Yeah. [38:28] Yeah. [38:29] No, I think our audience would love it. [38:30] And I always love doing stuff. [38:31] I just want to say something before we leave. [38:33] I want to say that it was great being on your show today that we are collaborating with this. [38:45] And, um, thank you for, um, um, um, giving me questions. [38:52] All right. [38:53] And so to that, I'd like to, I'd like to say that one of the great honors of my day is when the great Don Lemon joins me on the podcast. [39:06] Uh, thank you. [39:09] And next time you can ask the rest of the questions, um, to, uh, Michael when he's on the tarmac and we're heading to. [39:17] Uh, right. [39:18] I, I, I'd love to, I'd love to continue to answer questions because that's my job, but I've got to get on Marine One because we're going to Alaska. [39:25] Hey, thank you, Michael, for being such a great husband. [39:32] I mean, not my husband. [39:33] I'm sorry. [39:33] Such a great co, um, co podcaster. [39:37] I always get that confused. [39:39] And then she realized that I love that one line. [39:42] She goes, Oh, that's a good one. [39:43] She goes, that's a good one. [39:44] That'll be a good meme for, for like the internet. [39:50] Unbelievable. [39:50] Don Lemon, Michael Popak here on Legal AF. [39:52] Um, and, uh, we're, we'll try to do this at least once a week because, uh, at least Don and I have a great time doing it. [39:58] Thanks, Michael. [39:59] See you next week. [40:00] Thank you for being here. [40:01] You're on Legal AF YouTube channel. [40:02] Take a minute. [40:03] Hit the free subscribe button for our pro democracy channel. [40:07] Can't get your fill of Legal AF? [40:08] Me neither. [40:09] That's why we formed the Legal AF Substack. [40:12] Every time we mention something in a hot take, whether it's a court filing or a oral argument, come over to the Substack. [40:18] You'll find the court filing and the oral argument there, including a daily roundup that I do call, wait for it, Morning AF. [40:25] What else? [40:26] All the other contributors from Legal AF are there as well. [40:29] We got some new reporting. [40:30] We got interviews. [40:31] We got ad-free versions of the podcast and hot takes where Legal AF on Substack. 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