Toying With The Future - Full Equinox Documentary featuring Ocean Software 1992 - Adverts included

[00:00:00] Speaker ?: *Gunshot* *Gunshot* [00:01:00] Speaker 1: I'm naturally worried about things like this, but when they were born young they had to do different things, they didn't have computers or TV, so they had other clothes. [00:01:11] Speaker 2: I tell you what I had a lot of though, I had a lot of plasticine, and I had blocks, and I played repetitively for many years King Kong, you know I'd seen the movie and had an enormous impression on my mind about the middle of the 30s, and King Kong I think unwittingly stood both for my father and my elder brother who bashed me around I consider. And so I always had King Kong advancing against the walls of the big city, you know, then I had all these little plasticine soldiers on the other side with, with pins in them, so they used to sword fight Kong and stick their pins in Kong. But of course when you play for plasticine for a while, the stuff gets drippy in your hands and the bodies all disappear. *Gunshot* A good toy has to be challenging, it has to sort of lead you on to more complicated behaviour, has to give you an ability to do all kinds of things, give you all kinds of responses. A bad toy is probably one which, after you've played with it for five minutes, you can't find anything more to do with it. A bad toy is what a kid thinks is a bad toy, not what an adult thinks is a bad toy. What do you want for Christmas? [00:02:07] Speaker 3: You can get an electric train set in the home bay. [00:02:13] Speaker 4: This is going for my little niece, yeah. And then, er, Nicky, Nicky, this is going too. One, two, three, four. [00:02:20] Speaker ?: One, two, three, four. One, two, three, four. [00:02:22] Speaker 5: One, two, three, four. One, two, three, four. [00:02:24] Speaker ?: One, two, three, four. [00:02:25] Speaker 5: One, two, three, four. One, two, three, four. Look, that's my spot. Look, that's my spot. I got this already. I got this already. [00:02:31] Speaker 2: Why have we created this world, this world of these symbolic miniature objects? And why do we give children all this time to spend with them as they grow up? What's happening in the larger society that makes this kind of thing necessary? That's the question. We live in a society of increasing variety, an information explosion which we know doubles every ten years or so. You have to be, if you're going to be a part of this culture and be one of its executives, one of its leaders, one of its skilled people, you have to be at home in all these exposures. And sometimes they're complicated things, sometimes they're frightening things, sometimes they're domestic things, sometimes they're gender things, sometimes they're space things. I mean, it's just innumerable. Whatever it all is, as a kid, you need to grow up feeling at home that you've got some way of handling it. And what toys do, and have always done, is to be small replicas of large world events. And what a child does in playing with them is get a feeling of comfort. It makes the information world a friendly world for a kid who has sufficient exposure to its character. [00:03:35] Speaker 6: When you die, it has this, on Batman, it has this really slow music going, "Daaaahhhhhh." And you get really bored. [00:03:42] Speaker 7: I'm like, really frantic and, "Oh no, I've got to get that, I've got to get this, oh, if I don't then I'll die." And I do get very annoyed if someone's trying to attract me, I just say, "Oh, go away!" [00:03:51] Speaker 8: You're buying that for someone? Yep. Who's that for? [00:03:55] Speaker 4: Granddaughter. [00:03:56] Speaker 8: Is that what she wants? [00:03:58] Speaker 4: That's what she wants, yeah. What did you have when you were a kid? Not as much as this. All I had was a toy, um, what do you call it? Fire engine. Tin fire engine. That's all I... I remember having a fire engine set when I was a youngster. You know, when I was around about 11 or 12. That's the only first collection I got of it. But, um... See, there's even that odd... [00:04:21] Speaker 8: What are you buying? What are you buying? [00:04:23] Speaker 9: This is for my little boy. This is called the Big Fun Bus. There's only three. But he's been going mad for, um, the old, uh, train set. And I've got him one of them. He's opened his eyes up in the morning. Well, Chris this morning, he shall jump a joy. On the trampoline as well. A little trampoline. Uh, go bunkers on it. [00:04:50] Speaker 10: The child is a concept, um, and toys and children's books and all the paraphernalia associated with children is essentially an invention of the late 17th century. Uh, children were thought of as being miniature adults prior to about 1700. They basically, um, died so frequently and there was so little investment in children, uh, that it wasn't until they began to survive and live with the improvement of modern medicine and healthcare and so forth that, um, a notion of, uh, a distinct entity that is a child, uh, is actually operating in there. And when you invent a social construct like childhood, what you in turn do is you also have to, uh, create a culture and devices and things for them to do. What is this, Gene? It's a Japanese toy, assembly toy. A construction toy. [00:05:36] Speaker 8: Totally useful. [00:05:37] Speaker 10: Yeah, but totally wonderful. I mean, this notion of the motion and the action of the, um, mechanical thing replicating that of an, of a bug or an actual animal. It's just marvelous. Look at that. It doesn't look like some sort of extraordinary creature. Just some sort of, yeah, but, but wonderful. Just beautiful to see. It's, it's a wonderful toy. That's all. [00:05:59] Speaker 2: John Locke, the great philosopher, he's saying in his books about children that we need to get them off the streets. We need to keep them in the houses and give them tutors. And he creates the alphabet blocks, blocks, blocks, your first most famous toy. All the early toys are educational toys in the 1700s. And their, their whole aim was didactic, was to take kids away from the rough housing life of the streets and give them homework. Boring. Boring, but homework. And then, as the century goes by, they find the kids are not interested and they begin to create toys which have more pleasure in them. The first book's like a goody two shoes, you know, 1740, which is all about, you know, how to be good and not be bad and stuff like that. And then, gradually, they begin to put adventure into the stories. They take fairy tales and write them anew for children. In other words, what happens is that they, they, they sort of, a culture for children, a domesticated culture for children begins to develop in the 1700s. And that's where the toys come in. [00:06:55] Speaker 10: Freud was an extremely interesting figure. He was a German romantic from the first, um, half of the 19th century. And was responsible for establishing a whole tradition in terms of the kindergarten that I think was really revolutionary. He sees the child as a spiritual being and, um, he's absolutely concerned with the idea of awakening or unfolding in the child the, um, spiritual connection with the world. So, the connection to the toys and the principles that they demonstrate or show are profoundly important. The child will literally be cultivated, um, the idea of kindergarten is a child's garden in German, literally translates to that. The child is a plant who is tended and cultivated and through the use of devices such as these toys are led into, um, the spirituality of the world and the true meaning of the world and ultimately of God. [00:07:46] Speaker 2: Freud was an incredibly important figure in the history of toys. He created the notion that the toy is a, is a religious object, that it teaches the child about certain spiritual relationships in the world at large. I mean, the meaning of this, the, the easiest one to deal with is the ball. And this is his first symbol. And this stands for all the planets and all the suns, an incredibly important thing about the character of the world. It lay, allows the child to put his hand on that shape and get a sense and feeling for that shape. And therefore an intuitive understanding of the role of the circle or the cycle or the ball in human history. [00:08:24] Speaker 10: These are the second gift from the Freibelian, um, system. And what they're used for is to, uh, teach children how to discriminate between different sorts of shapes and forms. The child would be blindfolded and these would be mixed up and put in different ways. That's why they're hanging and they're moved around. And what would happen is that the child would go and pick them up and be asked by the teacher what shape or form it was that they were holding. In this case, for example, a sphere. They'd move over here, for example, and blindfolded, they'd have to feel this and recognize that this is a cube. And what's rather remarkable about these is that in point of fact, besides just teaching about form and feeling, they're deeply philosophical. Because what we have here, for example, is a sphere. And we have here a cube, which according to the notion of, uh, Hegelian theory, Hegelian dialectic, is thesis and antithesis. And what happens is when the two of them are combined, they come together to create a synthesis, which is the cylinder. That is the flat and the round combined together, which is essentially the merging of these two in a totally new form. [00:09:35] Speaker 2: Uh, people had never thought about toys like that before. Uh, he went on and of course he had a whole system for introducing kids to different toys, which were supposed to reveal different aspects of the universe, which most of us are skeptical about now. But the important thing here is that his advocacy was a door to the future. It's not that it was, some people still think it's the final home, as it were, you know, that's absurd. But it was a door to the future, that objects for children should be taken seriously and have a profound significance. He made it too profound and too serious and insufficiently playful, but nevertheless, it was a grand opening. [00:10:34] Speaker ?: So, this is a 1927 Meccano number seven set. This is called a hub disc. Uh, an early nickel-plated hub disc, part 118. If my memory serves me well. This is a 1927 Meccano number seven set. This is called a hub disc. Uh, an early nickel-plated hub disc, part 118. If my memory serves me well. This is a 1927 Meccano number seven set. This is called a hub disc. Uh, an early nickel-plated hub disc, part 118. If my memory serves me well. This is a 1927 Meccano number seven set. This is called a hub disc. Uh, an early nickel-plated hub disc, part 118. If my memory serves me well. If my memory serves me well. This is a 1927 Meccano number seven set. This is called a hub disc. Uh, an early nickel-plated hub disc, part 118. If my memory serves me well. This is a 1927 Meccano number seven set. This is called a hub disc, uh, an early nickel-plated hub disc, part 118. [00:10:54] Speaker 11: If my memory serves me well. This is a circular girder. That's part 148. This is called a hub disc. Uh, an early nickel-plated hub disc. Uh, an early nickel-plated hub disc, part 118. If my memory serves me well. If my memory serves me well. Uh, here's a circular girder. That's part 143. And a circular strip. Part 145. Uh, Hornby always prided himself that he used the correct term. Sometimes he got it wrong. Instead of, uh, a wheel. Which I might be able to find here, for instance, this thing here. Which is technically called a contrite. In the original manuals when it first appeared, it was called a contrite. As if it was apologizing for itself as it came into existence. Legend has it that the ancient Chinese had no way of telling north through magnetism as we have, through compass and so on. So they invented this. Which now is called a south-seeking chariot. The idea of it is that you've got a little man on the top here as a pointer. And no matter how you move this chariot, the little man is always pointing in the same direction. And that's achieved through a couple of differentials on the axle here. And it's beautifully illustrated through these Meccano parts. [00:12:06] Speaker 12: First produced in an unpainted natural steel. Then in blue and gold. Then in red and green. And now gay and space-aged colors. [00:12:14] Speaker 8: Did Frank Hornby have a kind of vision of what the Meccano company should be? [00:12:21] Speaker 11: Yes, I think he saw it as a sort of world community, almost. The things that he developed, such as the McGill, the Meccano Guilds, for instance, definitely had this huge worldwide club feel to them. And he would have been encouraging. Anywhere from around the world, this little boy in Kuala Lumpur could write to us in Liverpool. And we would write back to him. And they were assiduous in doing that sort of a thing. Frank Hornby also had a sort of moral tale to tell through all of this. And had a moral vision for children as well. I mean, here, for instance, I've got an early copy of the certificate that you would got if you joined the Meccano Guild. And it says here that a Meccano boy is alert and vigorous, helpful to others, clean in thought and habit, determined to make progress, observant and ambitious. And it also says that a Meccano boy undertakes to be obedient, truthful, patient, persevering and helpful. And we all were. So there would be these clubs all over the country, led by the equivalent of a scoutmaster, usually. And with his boys in line. And I think at that stage, as well as making models, there were sort of talks about what good people should do and so on. Yes. He saw it as still the trappings of empire and so on. This was a continuation of British glory. And there were certain virtues that people had that contributed to that glory. It's progress through engineering that was his major point. [00:13:56] Speaker 12: And the same firm's constructional toy has shaped the careers of goodness knows how many of today's engineers. [00:14:06] Speaker 13: In my bedroom, I had a spectroscope, I had a Van de Graaff electrostatic generator for producing artificial lightning. I had a microscope and a telescope and so on, you know. I always mixed up scientific gadgets with toys and I used to play with them a lot. And I still do. And I think my interest in science developed from playing with scientific toys. And I think gyroscopes, for example, are absolutely marvellous. I adored gyroscopes when I was a child. And it took me forever to explain why a gyroscope does what it does. And I found that the school books were useless on it. I, in the end, thought out my own explanations. So hidden in toys are deep principles of nature. And as you play and interact with them, you develop your own personal philosophy. And I think toys should be partly scientific, partly artistic, and partly just for the sheer fun of it. [00:15:08] Speaker 6: I'm going to do one foot this time. You can have somebody walk right on it. Smart, innit? We're both fit. We're both fit. We're both fit. [00:15:16] Speaker ?: We're both fit. We're both fit. We're both fit. We're both fit. We're both fit. We're both fit. We're both fit. Emily, take one foot off it. You broke it. You broke it. [00:15:26] Speaker 3: You broke it. [00:15:27] Speaker ?: Yeah, that was funny. Just did it like a funny. [00:15:38] Speaker 13: This really is to show people how to set up optical devices. You have to drop the ball down the chute. It hits that mirror, and I'm trying to make it ring the bell. So I'm going to make that mirror a slightly different angle, like that. Got it. And by looking down here, you can see what light does. You can pair that with what a physical object, like a ball, does. And when they're glancing angles, they behave differently, because the ball is made to spin. And so to compare, you know, the world of light with the world of objects, it's kind of magical. It leads you into thinking about optics. [00:16:18] Speaker 8: Why do you think it's important to know these things? [00:16:20] Speaker 13: Oh, I just think the whole universe looks more interesting. When you look at a rainbow or you look at the sun, and you understand where the light comes from, what makes the colors, the whole world takes on a fascination, an interest it doesn't otherwise have, I think. [00:16:34] Speaker 8: Well, what do you call these things? [00:16:35] Speaker 13: Well, we call them flaws, things you explore. Exhibits is a sort of passive word, something you look at, you see. Flaw is our word. It means something you explore. There are toys and a scientific demonstration. And I think that scientists are grown-up children, and a scientific experiment is a controlled toy, in a way. It teaches a scientist what's going on, like toys teach children. And there are also games against nature, a good experiment. It's really a game against nature. You're playing against nature and discovering its secrets. In a way, the idea of toys goes right through science. [00:17:13] Speaker 8: What are you winding up there, Gene? [00:17:14] Speaker 10: This is a Pinot helicopter. It was invented in 1871 by Frenchman Alphonse Pinot. [00:17:20] Speaker 8: Why do you find yourself doing this? [00:17:25] Speaker 10: Well, it's the first powered helicopter in history. And it's got an independent rubber band motor. And it was critical in terms of the Wright brothers being introduced to the whole question of flying. They were given this toy as little boys in 1878. Their father bought it at a convention in Chicago. And they got into flying as a result. It's just a good toy and it works real well. But it also demonstrates wonderful scientific principles. Which are? A air screw, the fact that we live in an ocean of air, and that literally this propeller will pull itself up just like that. [00:18:12] Speaker 2: The early toys are all didactic toys. They're meant to teach something. And most people, even today, mainly think about toys for their children as being something for them to learn from. It's terribly hard to get that attitude out of them. And there's very little research which suggests that you learn anything particular from toys. It's not that you don't learn something from them, but it clearly isn't the main job. They preoccupy a child and make a child active, and make a child believe in its own world and what it does itself, and that it can get from A to B. And they'll spend hours and hours doing it, whether it's video games or blocks or clay or plasticine, etc. They'll spend hours and hours. And probably the main outcome that they learn from that is I am capable of running my own little microcosm of the world. And that's the learning, and it's very hard for people to see that. And the video sales are going to go straight through to $19.90.10. [00:19:14] Speaker 14: And the video sales are going to go straight through to $19.90.10. There's a little yaps milk. There's a very big kitty butt. It's a very heavy kitty, so she does lots of meows. Mostly little puppy yaps. And the bear does a very big bear heagle. [00:19:49] Speaker 15: It's as near to being stuff as is possible to get in a manufactured item. The actual object does nothing. It's a square with four slots. It's like sand, if you like, or modeling clay. The child is what makes it work. It's how you assemble it. I've seen children making trains with them like this. And building a whole run of them. And you can go on for, you know, a meter or two like that. And they still hold together. And they still work. And my first view of that was, that kid's got it wrong. They're supposed to do that with it. But of course, there is no wrong. Because if you want the car to be a boat, then it's a blooming boat while you want it to be. Objects for children are as important as objects for adults. The toy that disappoints, the toy that doesn't do that which it appears likely to do, is a disappointment. The toy that breaks early is a disappointment. And the toy that doesn't have any tactile qualities, that in fact doesn't feel good, is terribly annoying. I can remember a pair of plastic binoculars when I was, I don't know, I don't know what age, but seven or eight. And they about magnified. Not very good. But the one thing they didn't have was binocular-ness. That marvelous, heavy metal, heavy glass, leather object that you want to possess. And we do that for adults. But for children, somehow we say, "Oh, well, it's only a toy, so it doesn't matter too much." While it doesn't take pictures, the camera still has a bit of camera-ness. And it has a joke. And the joke can be repeated again and again. You'll get bored with it by the third time. But I've seen children do this all darn morning. And you ought to take it off and put it away in the end, even though I designed it. [00:21:56] Speaker 14: She drinks lots and lots of milk. [00:21:58] Speaker 15: Is that the noise that this thing's making? [00:21:59] Speaker 14: That's the noise that the bottle's making. After lots of milk, she's got to be winded. She has a little burt. She has a little burt. She's a very happy baby now. And so she has a little, a little chuckle. [00:22:13] Speaker 8: I bet they don't fart as well, do they? [00:22:14] Speaker 14: Oh, yes, they do. Yes. [00:22:20] Speaker 15: I wanted him to be a bit rakish. I wanted him to look like a bit of a spiv. So I gave him a big nose. And one of our English importers wouldn't buy it at all. Simply on account of the nose. But I'm glad to say it was too late to change it then. This is a good example of quality because we sell, I believe, about as many of these to adult males as we do for children. Just because it's the dream Porsche. I mean, the sort of age we deal with, from one to five, not many children are going into toy shops and buying their own things. So you have to sell to the adult. But it has to be of a quality that the child will enjoy. [00:23:12] Speaker 2: What we have now, predominantly, is a toy as a gift. And my interpretation of that is that the, the, the toy is meant to bring the child closer to the parent. It's given Christmas Day, it's given on birthdays, at other times of the year, occasionally, but really for events that make the child a center of the family. And my feeling is that as the families become more solitary, and as parents are less available to children, in a sense, they are more ready and willing to use toys or objects or gifts to bring the children back to them. I like to say, I, the parent implicitly says, I give you this toy to bond you to me, now go and play with it by yourself. Because they really don't have time for the kid, and that makes them guilty. But they want the kid to love them, and they do love the kid, of course. And they have this conflict, and the toy is a gift as a solution to that conflict. [00:24:27] Speaker 16: You can't believe everything you see. Some beers look German. But they aren't. [00:24:45] Speaker 17: Give us a press, eh, Angelo? Put plenty of ice in that, son. Here. I'm doing all the back doubles. Rio Garibaldi. Lazio Square. All of a sudden, wallop. No entry. Have a righty place, no poxy entry. Then the fare starts banging on like it's down to me. So I've got to do it to you here, against the tide, pole me way nearly a mile, back up to the Green Canal. Oi, Wally. That ain't a press, eh? If I'd have wanted one of them, I'd have asked for a little bottle of something sweet, wouldn't I? I want a press, eh? Long glass. Plenty of ice. Fresh tasting juice. The Fall Del Monte. Here. Venice is sinking. What are they doing about it? Nothing. We'll stuff 'em. I'm on a gondola all day, aren't I? [00:25:20] Speaker 16: I've got you under my skin. [00:25:21] Speaker 5: I've got you deep in the heart of me. [00:25:37] Speaker 16: Aramis. The way a man touches a woman. You're really a part of me. Your complimentary sample available at leading department stores, selected booths, and independent chemists. [00:25:52] Speaker ?: You are about to witness a turning point. What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? 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[00:27:12] Speaker ?: What are you doing with the power of me? [00:27:13] Speaker 19: What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? [00:27:27] Speaker ?: What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? [00:27:30] Speaker 20: What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? [00:27:33] Speaker ?: What are you doing with the power of me? [00:27:34] Speaker 20: What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? [00:27:37] Speaker ?: What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? [00:27:39] Speaker 20: What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? [00:27:44] Speaker ?: What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? [00:27:46] Speaker 20: What are you doing with the power of me? [00:27:47] Speaker ?: What are you doing with the power of me? [00:27:48] Speaker 20: What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? [00:27:57] Speaker ?: What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? [00:28:12] Speaker 21: What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? [00:28:25] Speaker ?: What are you doing with the power of me? [00:28:26] Speaker 21: What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? [00:28:38] Speaker ?: What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? [00:28:43] Speaker 21: What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? [00:28:46] Speaker ?: What are you doing with the power of me? [00:28:47] Speaker 21: What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? [00:28:55] Speaker 8: What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? [00:28:57] Speaker 21: What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? [00:29:12] Speaker ?: What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? [00:29:15] Speaker 21: What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? [00:29:53] Speaker ?: What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? [00:29:58] Speaker 22: What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? [00:30:31] Speaker ?: What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? [00:30:39] Speaker 23: What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? [00:31:17] Speaker 21: What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? [00:31:30] Speaker 8: What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? [00:31:32] Speaker 21: What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? [00:31:50] Speaker ?: What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? What are you doing with the power of me? [00:32:00] Speaker 3: I've been playing computers for about two years. I mean, it doesn't take long to be addicted to it. [00:32:06] Speaker 8: Do you find if you've been listening to these tunes all evening, you go to sleep, they're still on your mind? [00:32:12] Speaker 3: Well, it drives your parents mad. It's always in your head, like this little tune. You've got it in your head all day, and it's really irritating. [00:32:20] Speaker 8: What does your mum think of you playing this? [00:32:23] Speaker 3: Well, she doesn't like it at all, but I like it. And I've been asking for something for Christmas, and she says I've got too much computer, so I said no. I think computers is going to change all toys. I think, in a couple of years, I think most kids are going to have computers, really. [00:32:44] Speaker 8: You must be aware of the various controversies that exist about video games. [00:32:49] Speaker 21: Yeah, you can come up with an explanation for all of them. Don't ask me that. There are controversies. Which one in particular? [00:33:10] Speaker 10: I mean, think about it. Children are up right now, 35, 40, 45 hours a week, engaged in some form of media. That means either television, or video games, or video tape viewing combined. It's extraordinary. That's more than they're doing almost anything else. It's more than they're going to school. It's more than they're doing in terms of sleeping, probably. I think it's a terrific problem. There are 120, perhaps, if you include the Game Boys, 130 million of these game systems available. And the question comes down to what is not being done when those game systems are being used. [00:33:50] Speaker 2: Parents complaints against video games. And the child now spends, he spends all his time, he's becoming a video game addict, they say. And I say to them, well, that's the whole idea. You don't, I mean, you don't master a game unless you become an addict of a game. And the great thing about childhood is you grow out of your addictions. And the terrible thing about adulthood is you die with them. [00:34:22] Speaker 8: Do you know the feeling of, you know, being up in the high 90s on Tetris in terms of lines and somebody interrupts you? [00:34:27] Speaker 24: 90s, 90s, that's, that's beginner's work, 90s. Yes, I do. I, you know, and you're, you're concentrating, and all of a sudden somebody breaks your concentration, you don't hit pause fast enough and it's over. What you're doing, you're thinking faster and faster. And, you know, your decisions are coming faster and faster. Um, so if somebody, you know, interrupts me, sorry, but you're out of here. [00:34:51] Speaker 8: In fact, it might make you quite aggressive. Yes. [00:34:55] Speaker 24: I don't, I don't know if I would be all that angry, but I'd make them get back up to the level that I was. Show. [00:35:01] Speaker 8: What do you got there, Felix? [00:35:03] Speaker 24: 99. Lines. [00:35:05] Speaker 8: Is that brilliant? [00:35:06] Speaker 24: Yeah. That's really good. If I got one more, I would have been on level 10. Once I get past the hundreds, I, my, I can't see. I go blind. I can't make the maneuvers fast enough because I can't see the shapes coming down. They start just falling out of the sky. The hand-eye coordination involved in something like that is tremendous. I mean, think about how difficult it is for an adult who's really honed his skills to a nine-year-old who is just developing those concrete skills. And if it's going to help them develop faster, then I don't see a negative involved in it. [00:35:37] Speaker 8: In some ways, a child can learn those skills faster than an adult. [00:35:40] Speaker 24: Oh, they have much more. If you, if you hand a Game Boy for the first time to an adult and the first time to a nine-year-old, that nine-year-old will be way ahead of you within 15 minutes. Because I think they're more acclimated to using something that is a computer. [00:35:54] Speaker 8: So do you think children have something to teach parents and adults about computers? Yes. [00:35:59] Speaker 24: What? At this, at this stage, in this generation, more and more children are on computers and their parents have never even turned one on. [00:36:07] Speaker 25: Well, I'm in the Arctic, and I have to kill the wolves and get the items and make it to the, uh, the boss, who's right up here. I have to slide under this. Okay, and there's the boss. Sort of a mechanical monkey. Well, I'm trying to kill him. I'm trying to, like, I don't know, mess up his mechanics up so that he explodes and I can pass and move on. [00:36:32] Speaker 8: But do, don't they perhaps impose the kind of decisions you have to make about the game? I mean, you either kill or be killed. [00:36:40] Speaker 25: Yeah, that's, that's about all of it. The, the goal is to win, and you have to kill people to do that. [00:36:52] Speaker 8: Do you find it exercises your imagination? [00:36:58] Speaker 25: Yeah, because, I mean, they give you an idea of how things, I mean, could be, or how surreal this is. How, it's sort of a purely fantasy. And they give you ideas about the, I mean, they, they inspire sometimes. They, sometimes they inspire you. Well, you'll see in this game how everybody is killing each other, and then you can sort of relate that to real life. How, at times, everybody's killing each other. [00:37:36] Speaker 10: What happens is, if the game requires you to engage in violence, rather than negotiation, you cannot win the game unless you engage in violence. Pure and simple, there's no compromise discussion. And it's very different, for example. People say, well, you know, kids play, shoot 'em up, cops and robbers all the time. It's not the same thing. It's not the same thing. Because, for example, if you and I as children were playing cops and robbers together, and I said, bang, you're dead. Okay? We can negotiate that. That would be discussed. That would have to be worked through. It doesn't happen that way in the games. It's not a negotiated process. It is simply following the program that's laid out by the computer programmer who designed the game. [00:38:15] Speaker 22: He's just a punk. He'll have a gun, and you'll just have to shoot him, basically. The ice hockey character will have a stick, and he'll be on the ice, and he'll be harder to dodge. And, because he's wearing body armor and that, you might have to hit him twice or three times. So the characters vary differently. When we first set out to do Lethal Weapon, we were going to do a very cutesy, like Super Mario. But we were told, because Lethal Weapon is an action film, then people would expect a hard-hitting action film. So we had to do it realistic. In Super Mario, the character would jump on top of a tortoise or whatever, and it'd disappear. In this, you'd sort of blow the guts out all over the screen, and blow the arms and legs flying everywhere. So there is a bit of a difference, yeah. [00:38:59] Speaker 8: Concerned adults worry that these games make kids more violent, though. They do sometimes. That's true. [00:39:05] Speaker 3: I mean, there's a karate game, and I'm coming off it, and I'm, you know, playing about. When you come off it, sometimes, because you're angry, because you've died, you're very... I got completely mad, like my brother. [00:39:16] Speaker 24: I don't think violence in any way is harmless. I don't think violence on television is harmless to a six-year-old or a seven-year-old. I don't think that violence in cartoons, I don't think violence in any way to a child of that age is acceptable. [00:39:32] Speaker 2: Why have the people who've made these up made them so warlike and so on? I mean, we'd prefer that they didn't, of course. Any sensible person would. But the answer that makes sense from a consumer point of view is if it isn't like that, the kid won't spend time with it. When he spends time with it, he graduates to other more complicated things with computers in general. [00:39:54] Speaker 24: I see a violent action that causes the death of another thing or human as totally unacceptable. Because I don't think at that age a child is old enough yet to realize that it's reality versus that this is just a game. And I think that they know that the action that they're doing is causing that character to die or for them to go farther. [00:40:20] Speaker 2: We've had it with radio, we've had it with television, we've had it with video games, we've had it with computers. And in each cases, in each of these cases, as well as in the case of many particular toys, adults, parents have got upset that the child's mind would be despoiled by these events. If they play with a video game, all they will have in their head from ever onwards would be video fighting, people smashing, killing each other. If they play with a Barbie doll, for example, and this is a glamorous little doll, all they will have in their head from hence on forth will be ideas of glamour. And they'll walk around smiling and trying to be wonderful and glamorous. [00:41:10] Speaker 3: Sexist. [00:41:12] Speaker 6: Because it says game boy and not game girl. [00:41:16] Speaker 7: A lot of girls kind of think that they aren't good, but if they try it, it's really fun. My dad's not too keen on it, but my mum, she's addicted to it. Boys' toys are all really exciting and fantastic and can do great things with them. Like girls' things like dress up Barbie with pink clothing and things. I think it's really, really sexist. So boys' toys are much more fun and exciting. [00:41:44] Speaker 26: If all you ever play with is little dolls and little dustpan and brushes and cooking sets, all you're likely to become, I don't know, is a house person or something. [00:41:55] Speaker 8: Can you tell us about these? [00:42:03] Speaker 27: Yeah, sure. Here we have the quints. The whole idea is that there's five of everything. You've got five little baby dolls. We have newborn quints, which actually smell of Tolkien powder. They've just had a little bar. And you have the thirsty quints with the milk that actually pours through the bottle. And you line the cradle for five. They just actually rock their little newborns to sleep. And if you come on through here, I'll introduce you to the quints triplet cousins. [00:42:34] Speaker 28: And what's really tremendous is that you've actually got the hair play value that obviously every little girl wants to play with. And also I think the key to it is developing the cross-sell. What you've got here is a range of 11 items, starting with the lower price points. Our pricing is actually coming down now where we've got the preschool. There's a question of taking the girl right through the category. Obviously the cross-sell is extremely important on this. I'll give you a typical example there of the virginity of the category. [00:43:05] Speaker 8: Can you tell us what this is? [00:43:07] Speaker 29: Oh, this is Dream Builders. It's a set designed for girls between five and nine years of age. The point that we like to point out is decoration slide. And they're self-reduce of stickers that are static. So you can actually decorate a little dream. So you can put the curtains up there and such. You can build your dream. And then you can doll play as well. So you've got these three different functions within the one game. [00:43:32] Speaker 28: Okay, good. Okay, thanks. Move on into activity, which is going to be a major category for us. [00:43:40] Speaker 8: What do you think of the dream girl bricks? [00:43:43] Speaker 10: Oh, I have a real problem with them. I think it's a wonderful idea to try to have construction toys, both for boys and girls, and ones that are non-sexist. But what they've done is they've basically taken some preconceptions about girls and what they're supposedly interested in, which seems to have to do with strange colors and flowers in one thing or another. And somehow girls are supposed to, young girls are supposed to be delighted at the idea of building with these things. And having field-tested those toys with elementary school kids, they have no interest in them whatsoever. [00:44:11] Speaker 11: And here's a lovely boy's toy type picture here. The little boy keen to get to his Meccano crane, whilst his mother and presumably his older sister try and drag him away from it. That's what females do to Meccano boys, it would seem. These were promoted exclusively as boys' toys. The literature of the time, there were little booklets produced encouraging children to use this, but it was always this boy. Dick's Adventures in Wonderland, or Meccano Land I should say, was one thing that was produced at this time. [00:44:46] Speaker 8: What happened in Meccano Land? [00:44:47] Speaker 11: Well, in Meccano Land, Dick was introduced to the wonderful Mr. Hornby himself, when we were shown around the factory with his father, and encouraged to become a good solid lad. [00:45:01] Speaker 30: Gardening is my hobby, but mine is a fair-weather hobby, unfortunately. And Meccano is any weather. [00:45:09] Speaker 8: What's it like living in a house full of Meccano? [00:45:19] Speaker 30: I feel as if I'm the only adult in this family. It takes up a lot of space and a lot of time. It is everywhere. Literature in the bedroom, Meccano clocks on the walls, everything. I even had a Meccano birthday card once. There's a lot of playing that goes on. You know, the excuses are coming. When I was a child, my brother had Meccano, but I never touched it. I wasn't expected to. [00:45:50] Speaker 8: Did you want to touch it? [00:45:51] Speaker 30: No, I don't think I did. [00:45:53] Speaker 8: And what would your brother have felt if you had touched it? [00:45:57] Speaker 30: Fury. It just never crossed my mind, as far as I can remember. Bang, bang. I felt that we were stereotyped that girls should play with dolls and boys should play with trains. And that we were brought up thinking that way. Whereas, I thought with this generation, we didn't make them feel that. My daughter was surrounded by boys' toys when she came on the scene, but she more or less ignored them. Yeah. [00:46:23] Speaker 31: What did I do? [00:46:25] Speaker ?: Got killed. [00:46:26] Speaker 31: I find it hard to get her to in every gate. Why? Um, because we don't need to. Do you think it's more... [00:46:32] Speaker ?: You can't shoot up on the ladders. Go up, Hattie. [00:46:34] Speaker 8: Do you think it's more a boys' game or a girls' game, what you're playing around? Boys' games. [00:46:36] Speaker ?: Boys' games. Why shouldn't girls do that? Why shouldn't girls do that? Um, because they're girls. Yeah, it's not ladylike. [00:46:40] Speaker 31: Yeah, it's not ladylike. Right on. Right on. [00:46:43] Speaker ?: Right on. Left. [00:46:44] Speaker 8: Sounds to me as if Harriet knows more how to play this game than anyone else. She thinks she knows. Oh, she's just like a backseat driver. [00:46:47] Speaker 31: Can I come out now? Can I come out now? Can I come out now? Can I come out now? [00:46:51] Speaker 8: I'm a woman, I can't. [00:46:52] Speaker ?: Can I come out now? [00:46:52] Speaker 8: I'm a woman, I can't. [00:46:53] Speaker 31: Can I come out now? I can't. I can't. Can I come out now? [00:46:57] Speaker 8: Right there. Right there. [00:46:59] Speaker ?: Left! [00:47:04] Speaker 8: Sounds to me as if Harriet knows more how to play this game than anyone else. [00:47:08] Speaker 31: She thinks she knows. She's just like a backseat driver. [00:47:12] Speaker 5: Can I come out now? [00:47:20] Speaker 10: Women are constantly victims of the main themes of these games that are very popular. And the idea of women as a victim, women having to be rescued, that really concerns me very much. [00:47:31] Speaker 6: You, the brave Cornelius, must rescue your girlfriend, Eliza, who's been abducted by Necrolis, the Not Very Nice. To do this, you must travel through eight levels of forest, ruins, lake, swamp, caves... [00:47:44] Speaker 10: It turns out that of the 47 most popular games in America, you subtract 11 or 12 because they're sports games. You're left for like 36, and of the 36 remaining games, 13 have as their primary theme the rescue or abduction of a woman. No corresponding rescue and abduction of men. I think those are very bad role models for kids. [00:48:11] Speaker 25: When the boys were younger, I guess they'd play with He-Man, action figures, and G.I. Joes, and the girls would play with Barbie and My Little Pony. But it's not like that one. [00:48:19] Speaker 8: What's it like now? [00:48:20] Speaker 25: Well, you play your video games, and you ride your bike, and that's about it. [00:48:23] Speaker 8: How do the girls do that? [00:48:25] Speaker 25: Well, the girls ride bike, and some of them play video games. [00:48:28] Speaker 26: They're all stuck on the phone. [00:48:29] Speaker 25: Yeah, they talk on the phone. Yeah, they talk on the phone. [00:48:32] Speaker 8: The girls talk on the phone? [00:48:34] Speaker 25: Yeah. [00:48:35] Speaker 8: What do you mean by that? [00:48:37] Speaker 25: Well, you've seen it in a lot of TV shows where the girls spend hours talking on the phone, and I guess some of that is true because most of the time when I'm calling some girl or something, the phone line is busy. And when I call, I say, "Well, why was he busy for such a long time?" Well, I was talking with my best friend about this and that and all this gossip. Most of the time at school, the only thing that the girls talk about is gossip. Girls are, I think, more social than boys. [00:49:08] Speaker 32: This is Peter. This is his surprise expression. [00:49:11] Speaker 8: There's an eyebrow that seems to go up and down. [00:49:14] Speaker 32: Well, I kept thinking, "Mine do that." You know, go like that. So, I was out here going... And then I was looking at everybody else, going, "Go on, move your eyes." And I sat there and drew them out and then put it down. We had fun. We had fun with some of this. [00:49:36] Speaker 8: What's it like to be just about the only woman here amongst all these men? [00:49:40] Speaker 32: I get asked that question so many times. It's not too bad, actually. They're on my wavelength. This is the end sequence where Tinkerbell has presented herself to Peter. And he's stunned, basically. He actually falls over. She wraps him up and carries him out of the window and off to Never Never Land. [00:50:16] Speaker 25: Sometimes it seems almost exactly like reality, but you're staring at a screen and you're not actually in the game doing all those jumps and kicks and all that sort of thing. [00:50:28] Speaker 8: So you're not feeling it physically in your body? [00:50:30] Speaker 25: No. I mean, it practices your hand-eye coordination, but you're not like exercising or anything when you play a video game. [00:50:38] Speaker 32: I am supposed to keep looking away to exercise the muscles in my eyes, but because I'm working close quarters all the time and at the moment I'm really busy, I've got to get this finished soon, I don't wander off and look at something else to exercise them. So you come away and you're like, "Oh, excuse me. In fact, I have to wear my glasses to go home because I can't see the number on the bus." [00:51:05] Speaker 8: What do you feel in your body when you're finished playing a video game? [00:51:08] Speaker 25: Well, sometimes I'm more relaxed. Like, when I'm really stressed, I let out a lot of that stress when I play video games and I'm more relaxed. [00:51:17] Speaker 2: When we were kids, you go back into the 30s, prior to television, your parents say, "Go play, go play." So you're out in the street, you're running from time, from dawn to dark, you're running and moving. And that's the sort of life which was typical, certainly from the beginning of the century up until World War I. We've become a more sedentary culture. And obviously, if a person spends nothing but their time on video games, their body's going to atrophy, and bodies are atrophying. I mean, we know that more, something like 50% of American children are now more obese than they should be and things of that kind. I mean, a price is being paid by this kind of world, but what educator would want to constrict a child to only one thing? Every child should have video games, should have computers, should have outdoor games, social games, et cetera, et cetera. [00:52:08] Speaker ?: All right. Where's that thing gone now? [00:52:11] Speaker 13: I mean, I think if you're watching a program on television, it's like looking in a mirror. You just touch a blank surface and you don't explore the world. And if you get people to interact with the world itself and have the world as one's teacher, then one can check one's own ideas, one's own skill, what other people say. And I think this interaction is really how the brain builds up, as it were, models of reality. It's not just by looking, it's by doing, it's by discovering what works, what doesn't, that you build up your mental way of coping, both with one's own body, how it can do things, like driving a car, riding a bicycle, but also getting a kind of intuitive, rapid understanding of the world around one. I think this is a good thing. [00:53:02] Speaker ?: I think this is a good thing. I think this is a good thing. I think this is a good thing. I think this is a good thing. I think this is a good thing. I think this is a good thing. I think this is a good thing. I think this is a good thing. I think this is a good thing. I think this is a good thing. I think this is a good thing. I think this is a good thing. I think this is a good thing. I think this is a good thing. I think this is a good thing. I think this is a good thing. I think this is a good thing. I think this is a good thing. I think this is a good thing. I think this is a good thing. I think this is a good thing. [00:53:31] Speaker 2: I mean, we really are kind of reversing the way the world goes. Once upon a time, adults knew it all. And kids were only allowed to learn what they wanted them to learn. And now you've got a situation gradually occurring where children are going to know more than the adults because it takes the kind of plasticity and quickness without too many stereotypes of how you should proceed to make you learn quickly. And children have got that. It's already happening with computers. And that's a very new thing. I mean, you really have this kind of almost a mutation in human evolution in a cultural sense that the children really should be smarter than the adults really early in the piece. Goodness knows how much further this is going to go. I mean, when we have the games, and you can envisage these games, kids have the surround all over them. You know, and you're inside it. You can feel it. You can smell it. And a whole fantasy world is being portrayed out in front of your eyes. You can live out a drama. Your own self is projected into the crowd scene of the game. I mean, what are kids going to be like when they've been through these kinds of experiences earlier? Well, we can give them so much more experience in a substitute way than they could have ever had before. Adults are going to be out of it. They're going to be with their old stereotyped soap operas. And the kids are going to be, you know, already with Hamlet, you know, at the age of nine, really grasping the whole thing. [00:54:56] Speaker 11: Can I come out now, please? Help. I think I'll make a new mobile then. [00:55:08] Speaker 33: There's a booklet to accompany this programme. For a copy, just send a cheque or postal order for £3, payable to Channel 4, to Toying with the Future, P.O. Box 4000, London W36XJ. And most of the programmes from the series are available on video. For more information, call Equinox Videos on 0532 438 283, extension 4060 or 4075 during...